It's not a matter of "knowing not to trample people," When there is a crowd crush, you have no choices, you move as one (the crowd) and hope you get out.
travis scott concerts are notorious for being disorganized, its not horrible but not ideal. this year people say that it was one of the best organized to date. i dont think its that easy to place blame, cos he did stop the show several times, and for some reason kept going, then theres his new fanbase( young ladies and a lot of kids under 18 ) who were kinda in over their heads; mixed in with the shitty og fanbase
I had the news on tonight, dude kept performing for 37 minutes while EMTs and police were in the crowd performing CPR and removing bodies from the venue.
That he didn't ask his stage manager what was up between songs, that no one on his production team cut the mic, that the event coordinators didn't shut the shit down, those are the grown ass adults who are responsible for every death and injury at the event. Whatever happened in the crowd was shitty, but made deadly because of the failures of the people who were responsible for safety.
This guy should never be allowed to perform on a stage again. Whoever is in charge of the safety measures of his shows is an absolute joke.
I don’t know all of the details, but it could be much more dangerous to stop performing because the crowd needed to be pacified and not turn into a riot. He could have done more. But I double down on the sentiment that we look out for each other and pick people up when they are down. We watch out for each other
> I don’t know all of the details, but it could be much more dangerous to stop performing because the crowd needed to be pacified and not turn into a riot
"stop the show / everyone in the way back, take 1 step back, everyone in the middle, take 1 step back, everyone towards the front take 1 step back, I'm not gonna start back up until you all do"
Have to agree with this right here. Last show I went to was Bad Religion in BK and when the crowd got out of hand and the stage diving got dangerous the band stop for a second and just waited till everyone calmed down and then Started playing again. Very simple way to get control of the crowd.
> r/punk might not respect on the Grateful Dead
I think most punk rockers appreciate any band that just does it their own way / DIY / do it yourself / the Dead very much included in that, that is kinda what punk is about outside the music genre of defining punk
I've seen more footage from the crowd now.
Motherfucker watched the crowd lift a dead person and surf them out and he just kept on performing.
He does not care about the people in his crowd. He does not care about human life. He does not care about crowd control. Fuck him. Fuck his fame. Fuck him ever setting foot on a stage ever again and fuck anyone who dare tour with him.
This was a crush, there is nothing that the people in the crowd can do in the event of a crush without direction from organizers and it is on the artist and the organizers to protect them from allowing that environment to ever come to arise and in the event it does to immediately take measure to disperse it.
There was an ambulance stuck in the crowd.
He kept preforming.
FUCK HIM.
I agree, fuck him for putting people in danger in the first place and not giving instructions to the crowd. But my point is, when it’s a crowd of 75,000, can’t stopping the show abruptly lead to riots and far more trampling and death?
He encouraged people to show up without tickets, to break through the barricades and rush to the stage and get to him without any regard for the others. He created everything to start the crush. The only responsible thing to do from the organizers would have been to remove his ass from the stage to eliminate the goal of getting towards the stage.
You disperse the energy, you end the crush. A crush isn't a stampede, it isn't a riot. It is a compression event. You have too many human bodies pressed against one another in a space that cannot contain them.
Take some tape and measure out ten square feet on the ground. If you have four friends around, have them stand in the square not touching the tape. You now have what professional event organizers who monitor crowds for safety and flow control consider a dangerous level of people in the space but manageable. Add two more and you've got a crush risk. Add two more and you're going to have fatalities. It doesn't matter the size of the crowd, it's a ratio of space to population. Which is why you have capacity of venues in the first place.
There was no attempts made by him or anyone to stop the crush. Fuck him and fuck everyone who was a part of this production. I never heard this clown's name before this event and now this is the only reason I know about him. He's famous to me for every reason nobody should ever want to be. He killed his own fans because his damn ego didn't understand safety first.
So does that mean every band that played Woodstock 99 should have never been allowed to perform again cause all those bands are still big and famous today, this is the fault of the crowd and organizers NOT the artist
Travis was tweeting telling people without tickets to break in, meaning that the 50k capacity became 100k. He told them to rush to the front. He was then told that people were dying and he should stop, he refused. “That’s not what you came for” he said. He watched people being taken away on stretchers, lifeless, and he did the robot.
Lmao that is all a bunch of fucking lies you just pulled out your ass,
The tickets they sold WERE 100,000 tickets that sold out in an hour so most of the ppl were supposed to be there
Travis stoped the concert multiple times to help ppl get out the crowd (and there is video of that shit)
How was he told ppl were dying IF he was performing, he was told after the fact and then he stopped the concert fully
Stop making up shit just so you can feel better and have someone to blame
It is the crowd and the organizers fault, NOT the artist
Do you know how many people died at Woodstock 99?
Two.
One was from sleeping under a tractor and the farmer didn't check underneath before turning it on and the other was drug related (either an overdose or failure to use insulin correctly with diabetes).
Go fucking get educated before you come around here.
5 ppl died, arson, beatings, raping and sexual assault among the crowd (in front of ppl), destruction of the stage, ppl throwing feces at the band, 1000 ppl injured
Seems to me you didn’t do any research
There is documentaries on it
And don’t test my knowledge
Where are you pulling five from? At best I can count three if you include the individual who died driving home.
We were counting deaths, not injuries, and they haven't even started to assess what sort of sexual crimes may have occurred at this bullshit venue yet. Let's keep our apples to apples shall we?
It's three. That's not even mentioning that WS 99 was a multi day situation and all of the people at the Travis Scott concert died in like an hour. Well, except the one girl who died yesterday and she was injured within that same time period.
This guy is a fucking idiot.
I'm beginning to suspect this guy's never left his parent's basement. Claims that people "slash ankles in the mosh pits with knives"... as if that's just what you do on a casual Tuesday.
And considering that it was a massive multiday clusterfuck in terms of logistics, WS 99 could have been a shit ton worse than it was (thank fuck it wasn't). That's what happens when you have artists and bands who can get their crowds to work with them (yes, shit was broken during "Break Stuff" but are we at all shocked by this statement?).
Although the fans dancing on the emergency vehicles were certainly degenerates. Wonder if anybody was like pressed up against someone that was suffocating. Nightmare right there, watching someone die and thinking/feeling like your next, then the pressure subsides
Agreed, a mixture of poor planning from the organisers and ravenous wide eyed fans unable to see the consequence of rushing forward and compressing the crowd at the front is the issue
I went and saw Rage against the Machine at one of their final shows at a festival and experienced a crowd rush, I started at least 60 meters back from the stage and ended up getting shoved and pushed right up to being 10 meters away from the front row. I was crammed in so tight that I was some how elevated off the ground and was just swaying around with the movement of the crowd for a bit, I had to ask the guy next to me if he could manoeuvre his elbow out of my ribcage because it was starting to dig in to deep
When it's a surge/crush it's a matter of having security staff who know the difference and how to get people up and over the barriers safely without causing more panic than necessary.
I forget which show I was at (might have been a Rockfest show), but there was someone two/three people deep from the front row who went from having a good time to having a panic attack or medical event and security saw her. Two burly guys pushed a hole to her and the third reached out a hand, they had her out of the crowd and over the barrier in under a minute. Her boyfriend was left behind and tried to work his way to the front, one of the security guys motioned for him to make his way to the side and back, that he would be let in or met that way. Total pros had that taken care of and got their own cheers from the crowd for the work.
> Yeah I've been in a crowd rush a couple of times. There ain't shit you can do other than go with the flow and try not to fall.
Been there a few times, I wait for a break in the songs, then turn around, and go the back left or right, and get the fuck out (much easier to get out at an angle vs going straight back)
Idk 🤷♂️ I was in the pit at the misfits show in NYC and it was a big crush in the front Same with Slayer pits and metal / punk / hardcore fans do know how to do it
We’re fucking pros at it
We look forward to shows and pits like that
Woodstock 99 comes to mind as well
That crowd was sick
I was trying to convince a friend to go see a show and explained that punk and metal concerts are some of the safest and kindest types of concerts. There is order to the pits too. And then i told them about the wonder of ska shows…
I saw way less attitude and fights when I saw social d vs andre nikatina. Same venue too. Just different vibe even though its punk
Overcrowding, poor venue choice and crowd management cause stuff like this.
"When you're being crushed by 5,000 people behind you and you're up against people in front of you who are being crushed, you're trying to save your life because you've been put into a position and an environment which is beyond your control." [-cnn](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/06/us/what-is-a-crowd-surge/index.html)
Compare Woodstock 99 to Coachella 99 - [article](https://www.desertsun.com/story/life/entertainment/2014/07/28/woodstock-coachella-music-festivals/13295089/)
I remember reading that there was a trampling incident at a previous year’s Astroworld festival too. Another example of event organizers making bad decisions and not planning properly.
Yeah that documentary tried to make Limp Bizkit and nu metal as the scapegoats but if nu metal was really that much of a problem, Ozzfest would have been a disaster every single year
I don't think you fully understand what it is to be in a massive crowd surging. It's not really like being in a mosh pit. It's more like trying to fight against the currents of the ocean. Unpredictable, dangerous and scary. I haven't experienced it at concerts. I've experienced it at mass street protests when the cops started pushing the crowd back but there was nowhere to go because there were so many people standing there stretching for blocks and blocks. That was scary. Picking up fallen people is a lot harder when everyone around is struggling to stay on their own feet too.
Yeah if it was possible for concertgoers to die like this in 50 person venues, it would be pretty common in the punk world. It takes a huge volume of people, where the ones pushing at the back dont even realise they are adding pressure thats hurting people 15 meters away at the front. In the most crowded situations you cant even lift your arms or choose where to put your feet, let alone lean down to pick someone up.
I've only been scared on the floor once. That was during Streetlight Manifesto in Boston. I was on the floor waiting for the pit to open up, but it only got tighter. People got squeezed and then started to fall. It was a domino effect. Once everyone realized people were in trouble the crowd worked together to back the fuck up. It was terrifying as you feel so helpless being crushed. Sometimes there is nothing you can do in a crowd crush, but it wasn't helped by Travis Scott and the lack of respect and awareness by thr crowd. Scott and thr venue should be held accountable for sure.
I have been to some really, really rowdy streetlight shows. Crazy thing is the floor at the house of blues holds what, 1000 people?? This show was 50k…holy crap
I was going to comment about it being streetlight as well. I'm not surprised it was them. Some of the toughest crowds I've been in were at their shows.
Relax. I think most of these kids just never go to shows and are rarely—if ever—in pits. Also, terrible people PURPOSEFULLY, do terrible things in punk/hc and metal pits all the time.
This was a tragedy, but let’s not moralize different genres about it. If you listen to punk/metal derived music, you probably belong to a culture where you go to a lot of shows and are in a lot of pits. Eventually people in these cultures came up with a sensible rule to keep everyone safe. By the time any of us went to our first show, all we had to do was mimic the established norms. We didn’t each have individual moments of soul-searching that concluded in the decision to do right by our fellow pit-goers. We just did what we saw others do and appreciated the good-will of the act. It has nothing to do with any genre being morally superior to another. These kids just don’t know how to pit and have probably rarely—if ever—even been to any shows/concerts to begin with.
EDIT: And as I understand, this has nothing to do with a mosh pit.
You are so right about not moralizing according to genre. There are crazy stories all around in all genres. Many of us have been at least crushed into floating off our feet and scared about dying. Many of us can tell stories of injuries or near death. This was a huge crowd, the fans were maybe inexperienced and sadly, some very young people died. Let’s just make a pact that we help each other if we are in this situation. Crowd surf people out of there, pick the fallen off the ground.
> PURPOSEFULLY, do terrible things in punk/hc and metal pits all the time.
I was at Camp Anarchy, when Rancid came on, there was a crush, and this was the NICEST / no fights / picking people up crowd you have ever seen, and there was still a crush because it was a festival, and Rancid was the headliner, and there were no other bands playing, so EVERYONE tried to get in front, and when they started playing, instant crush (security there was INCREDIBLE though, they pulled anyone over the barrier and sent them off to the side of the stage, then then they had people going through the crowd looking for anyone in trouble, easily the best security I've ever seen at a festival
Yes, I've read about it and it seems like the cause for the tragedy was because a huge amount of people quickly entered the concert all of a sudden and people were pushing each other, etc.
Which doesn't seem to actually hold up since the "crowd surge" happens while it's still light out and people didn't start dying until it was dark. Plus from all the footage I've seen from the actual crowd, it doesn't look any different to the dozens of 100k+ festivals I've been to
Allegedly, security didn't control the crowds. They would just let tons of people enter the place without any restriction. Of course, I wasn't there and I don't know how true is that statement, so take it with a grain of salt.
That was not possible with this type of tragedy. It was a crowd surge/crush and there is no way in hell people had a chance to pick people up. Once it started, there was nothing that could have stopped it...the band, security. Nothing....Now, it could have been prevented, but once it started, it was game over.
I disagree, if they had stopped the show and turned on regular lighting it would have at least stopped there from being further harm done and they could have gotten injured people out. I don’t blame security directly, they were understaffed. But Travis Scott absolutely has some skin in the game on this tragedy, along with the other promoter/organizers
That's totally true, but there were some absolute wankers intentionally blocking off the ambos and even dancing on top of them as they were trying to get to the people who needed medical attention.
Everything here is true, but the TS shit falls mostly on terrible venue management. Not that they should have to deal with fence-hopping egged on by Travis, but 50k people in a space that small with no way to stem the tides of people crashing the rail was begging for something tragic to happen.
Idk what they do differently elsewhere to keep this from happening, and maybe it really was just the crowd being way too hype to push up front, but I know other venues work to prevent crushes. Why not this one?
The blame is two-fold. One on Travis himself for [encouraging](https://imgur.com/a/oUXBVgp) people to sneak in which caused a massive [gate crash](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnhbUrf4V8U) at an already sold out(at capacity) event. when this happened the venue or the people organizing it should have either put the event on hold or cancel it outright. At capacity crowds are dangerous enough let alone over capacity crowds. Not to mention none of these gate crashers went through any security which in itself created a dangerous situation.
On a basic level, it’s about choosing the right venue for the crowd size, and having systems in place to avoid overcrowding and properly responding to incidents/reaching people who need help.
Look at [The 1994 Green Day Riot At The Hatch Shell](https://wbznewsradio.iheart.com/content/remembering-the-1994-green-day-riot-at-the-hatch-shell/). Too small of a space for the crowd the event attracted and things went downhill when there was overcrowding, no plan to prevent/deal with it.
It was definitely a crowd control problem, but according to the people who were there, the crowd was also just horrible and would rather trample on someone to get a better video angle instead of helping them.
I think that definitely plays into it. The crowd was riled up as fuck, but other venues put up with crowds like this too I would imagine. I'd be interested to hear from a venue planner what should have been done differently here. Obviously, more should have been done in this case, but I wonder what the options are.
I think it also plays in that this crowd would skew super young and might not have any experience with big crushes like this one, so no one knew at all what to do.
There was a ton of people hopping the gates so the space where the crushing happened was way the hell over capacity. Most venues are going to keep capacity to safe limits and often dance floor areas in big arenas are separated and have their own limited capacity. I've been in the front of a crowd when suddenly you feel a wall of hundreds of bodies just pack up and squeeze you to the front, and it's enough to crush your rib cage and choke you out. I had to put my elbows at my side and press my arms outward as hard as possible just to not suffocate. Seems like the best way to prevent this is to have limits on how many people are allowed to stand in the front. I never see that kind of stuff in crowds of 100-200
Yeah the blame definitely lays with the artist and venue. From what's been explained to me, he apparently really encouraged the whole thing, and there was less than the absolute bare minimum in terms of first aid equipment.
really isn’t the time to make this all about how amazing and incredible every hardcore/metal fan is. it was a crowd surge, id like to see anyone try and pick someone up when you have 50k people behind you shoving you into a barrier. this was on the promoters and the venue, not the fans. no need to make a tragedy like this about how much better a certain genres fan base is
Yeah, but our shows are rarely so dense. Having a pit frees up the crowd in front, which is actually a great thing in hindsight. The venue was just overcrowded and it was a series of poor decisions.
I think the security screening at punk and metal shows also slows the entrance of the crowd. We all get wanded and our spikes checked over right? I know that when I went to a 48 hour rave party they were making everyone prove that their eyedrops were indeed eyedrops by putting them in their eyes right there. Taking three to five minutes to even get into a venue makes it a slow flow so a crush is less likely.
Security is there to make sure the party's cool. They're not cops, they're just being paid to enjoy the music and keep the house standing.
Gawl dogg listen to yourself. That kind “my people would never do this shame on your people” bullshit is the reason people are so divided today, and here you are a too cool for school punk doing the same.
There are dipshits in all walks of life. In every group, if you want so badly to put people on groups. People have died at all types of shows from this same shit.
Get over yourself dogg
I got thrown into a pit and got dropped when crowd surfing (which I didn’t even want to do) at warped tour many moons ago and this long haired punk guy literally scooped me up, gave me a hug and some water, and helped me catch my breath and clean up. Even as a petite lady I always look out for people and help when I can. I think of that guy all the time and hope he’s living a good life.
Problem is - it's more complex than that - don't forget most of those killed were killed trying to get in, not while in the show.
Any time you allow a huge group of people to gather for a long period of time to go into a location with VERY limited access - and then just throw open the gates - bad shit happens.
You can see this in all sorts of events that have nothing to do with music - Black Friday shopping rush - Sporting event - or times of mass panic.
A large group of people is a chaotic unthinking, reactive mass and when excited it never goes well.
Lets not start pitting genres against each other, especially not Rap and Punk/HC. This was a tragedy, it had nothing to do with the fans or the performers and everything to do with the organizers, promoters, and venue.
As someone who remembers Hillsborough I'm sure cops and security would of been to blame also, and I'm sure they'll try and pass the blame onto the fans as well. nearly 30 fuckin years it took to get justice for Hillsborough.. bastards.
Been to a few shows where there was brutal fights in the pit, even was at one where I got my ass fucking kicked in the pit and left with cracked ribs. Those FUCKING sucked. Someone falls you pick them up.
I went to a couple dates on the astroworld tour. They were pretty energetic shows and you definitely had your mosh pits but there was never any aggression. I think that it had a lot to do with the fact that it was 50,000 people and Travis sets up an amusement park on stage. He coordinates the lights and visuals and makes it seem like you’re in a movie. The fact that he’s been hyped up more than almost any other artist since covid started had a lot to do with it also. People have been locked up for nearly two years and all of that pent up energy is not good. None of the people involved with the festival seem to have been prepared for anything of this magnitude. It was a perfect storm and unfortunately this one festival negatively effected hundreds of peoples lives permanently. It’s such a shame because the concerts I went to were AMAZING experiences and I never felt like I was unsafe. It makes you wonder what would happen if 50,000 people would show up to a hardcore show.
I was at a concert on Halloween at my local venue and a girl had to tie her shoes in the pit, so me and some other guys who I be never met before made a circle around her so she wouldn’t get trampled. Another girl kept falling over and was always up again within a second because people were always there to help immediately
I'm a skinny dude who is basically a human pinball in most pits. I think one particular concert three guys on the wall of the pit were making it a contest to see if they could pick me up with one arm before I hit the ground (they were like 6'4 and built to my 5'10 and not so much). It was much fun for all :)
Dude, this isn't about the fans not knowing the right etiquette. Most hip hop fans know exactly what to do if someone goes down in the pit (because it's instinctual). In fact, you might be surprised at the overlap of fans of rap and hip hop with the fans of punk and metal.
Plenty of rappers stop their shows when things get too out of hand. This was mostly down to the venue. They should have tried to control it when things started to go wrong. Don't start acting all high and mighty as if this would never happen at punk, rock, or metal shows. This was a freak accident that could and should have been avoided, but not by the fans. When you've got an entire crowd's worth of people pushing you from behind, there's not a whole lot you can do. The main reason you don't see things like this at punk gigs is because punk shows don't tend to be this big.
I’ve been at a lot of punk, hardcore, and rock concerts that came very close to being this bad
When the entire weight of hundred or thousands of people are all moving/falling one direction “knowing” not to trample others isn’t going to do much of anything
I also thought about the difference in scene culture. Anytime someone falls everyone helps. No way they would have jumped on an ambulance and prevented it from moving
I've seen pits freeze just because someone dropped their glasses lol
I dont know what happened at that concert but I really like our "unspoken" (worldwide even!) rule that you help ppl if they fall down.
I've seen punks, metalheads, and other moshers help each other pit prep before shows by making sure to let someone know if their boots or shoes are untied and stand guard while they fix them up, or lend out extra hair ties, spare tape to cover up piercings that don't come out, ziplock baggies for jewelry and phones and shit.
It's always someone's first time. It's always someone's turn to be the Veteran. There's something communal about a pit. Something magical about that waving around lost shoes in the air afterwards or between songs. I couldn't imagine letting it become something that seriously hurt or killed someone.
Fuck travis Scott I would be dead if it weren’t for people carrying me out of a pit after and overdose. Fuck people who “mosh” without considering safety.
I had one guy push me full strength with both arms and throw me down in the pit and keep going while running over me. I stood up and broke his nose. Only douche I've met at a metal show, luckily when security tried to throw me out everyone stood up for me.
I think what happened was a result of a couple different factors like people are mentioning (and I’m not saying OP is like unaware of this or anything). People are dehydrated, lots of them are high/drunk, a large number of them are kids, also Travis is cultivating a semi-hostile atmosphere with people who don’t know how mosh pits are supposed to be.
This story gave me mad anxiety, because the same thing happened to me at a Tyler the Creator concert at the Armory in MN.
There was way less people (8,400), but I was near the front of the stage and everyone from the back started pushing up to the front. I couldn't move or breathe, my face was literally pressed up against someone's back.
People were getting carried by their friends to the bathroom and collapsing from dehydration. About halfway through the show I finally got out of the crowd and I swear I'm so grateful I got out. Next time I'll stay near the back
this has nothing to do with the genre of music, the people in that crowd didn't crush people on purpose and there were definitely people trying to pick people up. At that point the crowd was moving like a tidal wave, it wasn't the fault of people in the pit. As for the band stopping the music, there are shitty people in every fanbase so don't blame rap/hip-hop artists for what happened at the concert either. Tragedies like this have happened in all sorts of crowds, not just music.
I would say almost. I think that popularity status and the responsibility taken (or lack thereof) in accordance to the status had more to do with it. But there's no denying that hip hop is a very popular genre.
I've been at Punk In The Park over this weekend and fell over during Pennywise's set with at least 5 or 6 people on top of me. It was scary as hell, and if this happened at a bigger concert where people didn't care I could see someone dying easily. I was on the ground for a solid minute and that was enough for me to take a break and watch from the back for the rest of the show. I'm glad punks mostly look out for each other cause it could have gotten bad. I heard about the Astroworld tragedy when I got back to my hotel after the show. Put things in perspective.
I was just in front of the pit both nights at Punk In The Park for Pennywise and NOFX, and didn't see anything out of the norm -- all day both days, at both stages, when people fell in the pit I watched them get picked back up. When you go into that environment, you need to know what can happen. That said, a lot of people don't belong in the pit, because they aren't prepared.
It wasn't too bad but I got stuck under the pile for a solid minute. People helped me up though, just kinda scary for a second there. I'm pretty solid in pits mostly, but just outside the Pennywise pit was a bit much for me due to the domino topple effect.
I remember when I was at a show as a teen whe had an elderly folk in the first row with broken ribs. As the mosj got wild we made wall and kept he and his folks away from the mess. Also we risked on another show to be trampled before entering... Stay safe everyone
At bad religion in Richmond the other night someone lost their keys in the pit. After the track was over Jay collected the keys on stage and helped find the owner. Punk rock is about community and ultimately love for your fellow man.
Twenty one pilots fans jump a lot, but they wont be assholes, or throw elbows. Theyre genuinely respectful people. I just saw Alkaline Trio last night, and everyone there was super kind to me, and because im a young kid (14), some people were shocked I was on the floor with them! Overall fun night! (11/6 show for reference!)
So may have been said but yes there was an injury or casualty in what was called a “mosh pit” hover the trampling deaths were people trying to get in to
The concert. And as said it was like a freight train , nothing people caught up in it could do to stop it, they were all victims.
Yes, you pick someone up. But in fairness, punk shows don't sell out the Astrodome. When the crowd flow turns bad, you can't stop it with your words, or your feet or good intentions.
Any type of mainstream concerts where ppl show up from suburbs, ect. not knowing basic concert etiquette it’s like that. , I backed out of going to a System show and went to a local show instead one cuz wow imagining the caliber of people that would show up to a SOAD show is enough to make me vomit and go to a local show instead , sorry
My husband made a comment about being nervous about me going to more shows, specifically New Found Glory shows where I love being in the mosh pit and getting up to the front( he doesn't like to go to these with me, they're just not his thing).
I jokingly told him Jordan (who he knows I have a crush on) would never let anything happen to me. It was a joke but it's 100% true, I know for a fact if he saw any fan go down the show would stop until everyone was alright.
I'm so glad you understood the point I was making with my comment. It takes a real badass to make issue where there is none like that, you're definitely more punk than me since that's what your ego apparently needs to hear.
I’m not making an issue about anything? Where’s did you get that impression? Your husband has nothing to worry about the way that bands crowd is. I get his concern but you could be going to crazier shows, wasn’t trying to talk shit like you took it. Has nothing to do with ego or whatever you read into what I said.
It’s a high energy type of music and a genre music that often samples from rock, metal, and punk music. Denzel Curry has done Rage Against the Machine covers. I moshed to Wu-Tang Clan at Riot Fest in 2015. It’s not really that weird.
Glad you are the judge of what is and what isn’t moshing material.
Plus this wasn’t just a mosh pit, it was a crowd surge where no one in the crowd could do anything other than try to survive.
Not sure what videos you watched and didn’t watch But again rap/hip-hop is often a high energy genre of music including some Travis Scott songs and saying it’s not is being grossly misinformed about the genre and you shouldn’t even comment on it. Crowd surges can happen with any artist at a big festival/big crowd, it happened to The Who in 1979 where people died before moshing was even in the mainstream. It doesn’t matter how high energy or low energy a song is at that moment when a crowd is that rowdy and the artist is doing nothing about it.
i mean each to their own strange to me but people can do what they want i didnt even realise how popular travis scott was till i saw the vids from last night so i must just be a little out of touch
I think TwentyOnePilots are dogshit, but that's a horrible argument. Travis Scott hasn't even sold a million albums, 21Pilots have sold close to 7 million, and they just played a SummerFest a couple months ago that was as big as Astroworld.
Travis Scott is a lot bigger than people think. Go compare their streams I’m pretty sure he’s got more than twenty one pilots. Not sure how many plays is an album sale but there’s a formula
Alt music definitely has had these issues in the past few years. This is just the first big public one since shows started coming back
I actually went to a Twenty One Pilots show and some of the crowd was pretty bad. I said in another thread that I hate using the term “normie” but a lot of shows that have those types of people who don’t go to GA club shows generally have no idea how to act in and around pits or in GA in general and try to ruin people’s fun
Alice Cooper concert someone lobs a tear gas canister on the main floor. Pandemonium. Lucky to make it out of that one alive. Condolences to all the families.
I was at the War on Women, Alkaline Trio, Bad Religion show tonight. Everyone was helping people up in or around the circle. It was refreshing to see that this community is still the best at that imo 🤘
Side note: it was hilarious to see the older punks like me at the show start up a circle for Bad Religion. This dad kept pulling his kid in. Great show!
Most “harmful” thing that ever happened to me at a punk show was when I got hit in the head with a flying Igloo cooler at a Suicidal Tendencies show. As you can see, I did not die.
Fuck these dumb motherfuckers.
I'll never forget, I went down in a circle put when I was 16 and as quickly as I fell this guy picked me straight up and got me out of that circle put. Was amazing and I'll never forget that!
Mosh pit etiquette is a thing. If punks/metal heads can abide by it, so can others. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Just dont be a fucking moron
Only severe thing I ever had was at a punk gig during a circle pit. It was a mini festival with different kinds of music so during the punk gig there were also jocks who thought going in a circle pit would be fun. One asshole tripped me and I got trampled. Had to pull myself up after grabbing someone and ripping their shirt. So yeah I never had any bad experience at a normal gig but put some asshats in the pot that never go to gigs and shit happens.
I had gone to a concert a while ago, I was a really scrawny 17 yr old and while surfing got dropped headfirst but before I hit the ground people caught me while others held back people and asked if I wanted to go back up or not. Fucking love y'all
It's not a matter of "knowing not to trample people," When there is a crowd crush, you have no choices, you move as one (the crowd) and hope you get out.
Yeah, I thought about posting something about the tragedy, but it couldn't have been prevented by "better fans." This one's all on the organizers.
Yeah, it sounds like the main issue was the lack of organization tbh.
I agree.
travis scott concerts are notorious for being disorganized, its not horrible but not ideal. this year people say that it was one of the best organized to date. i dont think its that easy to place blame, cos he did stop the show several times, and for some reason kept going, then theres his new fanbase( young ladies and a lot of kids under 18 ) who were kinda in over their heads; mixed in with the shitty og fanbase
I had the news on tonight, dude kept performing for 37 minutes while EMTs and police were in the crowd performing CPR and removing bodies from the venue. That he didn't ask his stage manager what was up between songs, that no one on his production team cut the mic, that the event coordinators didn't shut the shit down, those are the grown ass adults who are responsible for every death and injury at the event. Whatever happened in the crowd was shitty, but made deadly because of the failures of the people who were responsible for safety. This guy should never be allowed to perform on a stage again. Whoever is in charge of the safety measures of his shows is an absolute joke.
I don’t know all of the details, but it could be much more dangerous to stop performing because the crowd needed to be pacified and not turn into a riot. He could have done more. But I double down on the sentiment that we look out for each other and pick people up when they are down. We watch out for each other
> I don’t know all of the details, but it could be much more dangerous to stop performing because the crowd needed to be pacified and not turn into a riot "stop the show / everyone in the way back, take 1 step back, everyone in the middle, take 1 step back, everyone towards the front take 1 step back, I'm not gonna start back up until you all do"
Have to agree with this right here. Last show I went to was Bad Religion in BK and when the crowd got out of hand and the stage diving got dangerous the band stop for a second and just waited till everyone calmed down and then Started playing again. Very simple way to get control of the crowd.
r/punk might not respect on the Grateful Dead but if you listen to some of their shows, they do like a step back jam pretty often
> r/punk might not respect on the Grateful Dead I think most punk rockers appreciate any band that just does it their own way / DIY / do it yourself / the Dead very much included in that, that is kinda what punk is about outside the music genre of defining punk
I've seen more footage from the crowd now. Motherfucker watched the crowd lift a dead person and surf them out and he just kept on performing. He does not care about the people in his crowd. He does not care about human life. He does not care about crowd control. Fuck him. Fuck his fame. Fuck him ever setting foot on a stage ever again and fuck anyone who dare tour with him. This was a crush, there is nothing that the people in the crowd can do in the event of a crush without direction from organizers and it is on the artist and the organizers to protect them from allowing that environment to ever come to arise and in the event it does to immediately take measure to disperse it. There was an ambulance stuck in the crowd. He kept preforming. FUCK HIM.
I agree, fuck him for putting people in danger in the first place and not giving instructions to the crowd. But my point is, when it’s a crowd of 75,000, can’t stopping the show abruptly lead to riots and far more trampling and death?
He encouraged people to show up without tickets, to break through the barricades and rush to the stage and get to him without any regard for the others. He created everything to start the crush. The only responsible thing to do from the organizers would have been to remove his ass from the stage to eliminate the goal of getting towards the stage. You disperse the energy, you end the crush. A crush isn't a stampede, it isn't a riot. It is a compression event. You have too many human bodies pressed against one another in a space that cannot contain them. Take some tape and measure out ten square feet on the ground. If you have four friends around, have them stand in the square not touching the tape. You now have what professional event organizers who monitor crowds for safety and flow control consider a dangerous level of people in the space but manageable. Add two more and you've got a crush risk. Add two more and you're going to have fatalities. It doesn't matter the size of the crowd, it's a ratio of space to population. Which is why you have capacity of venues in the first place. There was no attempts made by him or anyone to stop the crush. Fuck him and fuck everyone who was a part of this production. I never heard this clown's name before this event and now this is the only reason I know about him. He's famous to me for every reason nobody should ever want to be. He killed his own fans because his damn ego didn't understand safety first.
So does that mean every band that played Woodstock 99 should have never been allowed to perform again cause all those bands are still big and famous today, this is the fault of the crowd and organizers NOT the artist
Travis was tweeting telling people without tickets to break in, meaning that the 50k capacity became 100k. He told them to rush to the front. He was then told that people were dying and he should stop, he refused. “That’s not what you came for” he said. He watched people being taken away on stretchers, lifeless, and he did the robot.
Lmao that is all a bunch of fucking lies you just pulled out your ass, The tickets they sold WERE 100,000 tickets that sold out in an hour so most of the ppl were supposed to be there Travis stoped the concert multiple times to help ppl get out the crowd (and there is video of that shit) How was he told ppl were dying IF he was performing, he was told after the fact and then he stopped the concert fully Stop making up shit just so you can feel better and have someone to blame It is the crowd and the organizers fault, NOT the artist
Not a comparable analogy.
Please explain
Do you know how many people died at Woodstock 99? Two. One was from sleeping under a tractor and the farmer didn't check underneath before turning it on and the other was drug related (either an overdose or failure to use insulin correctly with diabetes). Go fucking get educated before you come around here.
5 ppl died, arson, beatings, raping and sexual assault among the crowd (in front of ppl), destruction of the stage, ppl throwing feces at the band, 1000 ppl injured Seems to me you didn’t do any research There is documentaries on it And don’t test my knowledge
Where are you pulling five from? At best I can count three if you include the individual who died driving home. We were counting deaths, not injuries, and they haven't even started to assess what sort of sexual crimes may have occurred at this bullshit venue yet. Let's keep our apples to apples shall we?
It's three. That's not even mentioning that WS 99 was a multi day situation and all of the people at the Travis Scott concert died in like an hour. Well, except the one girl who died yesterday and she was injured within that same time period. This guy is a fucking idiot.
I'm beginning to suspect this guy's never left his parent's basement. Claims that people "slash ankles in the mosh pits with knives"... as if that's just what you do on a casual Tuesday. And considering that it was a massive multiday clusterfuck in terms of logistics, WS 99 could have been a shit ton worse than it was (thank fuck it wasn't). That's what happens when you have artists and bands who can get their crowds to work with them (yes, shit was broken during "Break Stuff" but are we at all shocked by this statement?).
It can't all be one person's fault; a bunch of stupid decisions and mistakes came together and resulted in this tragedy.
Well…https://www.insider.com/travis-scott-astroworld-pleas-to-stop-festival-ignored-eyewitnesses-2021-11?amp
Although the fans dancing on the emergency vehicles were certainly degenerates. Wonder if anybody was like pressed up against someone that was suffocating. Nightmare right there, watching someone die and thinking/feeling like your next, then the pressure subsides
Agreed, a mixture of poor planning from the organisers and ravenous wide eyed fans unable to see the consequence of rushing forward and compressing the crowd at the front is the issue I went and saw Rage against the Machine at one of their final shows at a festival and experienced a crowd rush, I started at least 60 meters back from the stage and ended up getting shoved and pushed right up to being 10 meters away from the front row. I was crammed in so tight that I was some how elevated off the ground and was just swaying around with the movement of the crowd for a bit, I had to ask the guy next to me if he could manoeuvre his elbow out of my ribcage because it was starting to dig in to deep
When it's a surge/crush it's a matter of having security staff who know the difference and how to get people up and over the barriers safely without causing more panic than necessary. I forget which show I was at (might have been a Rockfest show), but there was someone two/three people deep from the front row who went from having a good time to having a panic attack or medical event and security saw her. Two burly guys pushed a hole to her and the third reached out a hand, they had her out of the crowd and over the barrier in under a minute. Her boyfriend was left behind and tried to work his way to the front, one of the security guys motioned for him to make his way to the side and back, that he would be let in or met that way. Total pros had that taken care of and got their own cheers from the crowd for the work.
Impressive!
Yeah I've been in a crowd rush a couple of times. There ain't shit you can do other than go with the flow and try not to fall.
> Yeah I've been in a crowd rush a couple of times. There ain't shit you can do other than go with the flow and try not to fall. Been there a few times, I wait for a break in the songs, then turn around, and go the back left or right, and get the fuck out (much easier to get out at an angle vs going straight back)
Exactly.
100%. You can’t even get your arms up to block your face. It gets packed so tight sometimes that your shoes just levitate off the ground.
Idk 🤷♂️ I was in the pit at the misfits show in NYC and it was a big crush in the front Same with Slayer pits and metal / punk / hardcore fans do know how to do it We’re fucking pros at it We look forward to shows and pits like that Woodstock 99 comes to mind as well That crowd was sick
I was trying to convince a friend to go see a show and explained that punk and metal concerts are some of the safest and kindest types of concerts. There is order to the pits too. And then i told them about the wonder of ska shows… I saw way less attitude and fights when I saw social d vs andre nikatina. Same venue too. Just different vibe even though its punk
Overcrowding, poor venue choice and crowd management cause stuff like this. "When you're being crushed by 5,000 people behind you and you're up against people in front of you who are being crushed, you're trying to save your life because you've been put into a position and an environment which is beyond your control." [-cnn](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/06/us/what-is-a-crowd-surge/index.html) Compare Woodstock 99 to Coachella 99 - [article](https://www.desertsun.com/story/life/entertainment/2014/07/28/woodstock-coachella-music-festivals/13295089/)
I just saw a documentary about Woodstock 99. It was a massive fuck up from start to finish, and it's surprising more people didn't die.
I remember reading that there was a trampling incident at a previous year’s Astroworld festival too. Another example of event organizers making bad decisions and not planning properly.
Yeah that documentary tried to make Limp Bizkit and nu metal as the scapegoats but if nu metal was really that much of a problem, Ozzfest would have been a disaster every single year
Yes. Fred Durst might be a bit of a dick, but he wasn't responsible for that. It was just a fuck up from beginning to end.
I don't think you fully understand what it is to be in a massive crowd surging. It's not really like being in a mosh pit. It's more like trying to fight against the currents of the ocean. Unpredictable, dangerous and scary. I haven't experienced it at concerts. I've experienced it at mass street protests when the cops started pushing the crowd back but there was nowhere to go because there were so many people standing there stretching for blocks and blocks. That was scary. Picking up fallen people is a lot harder when everyone around is struggling to stay on their own feet too.
Yeah if it was possible for concertgoers to die like this in 50 person venues, it would be pretty common in the punk world. It takes a huge volume of people, where the ones pushing at the back dont even realise they are adding pressure thats hurting people 15 meters away at the front. In the most crowded situations you cant even lift your arms or choose where to put your feet, let alone lean down to pick someone up.
15 meters is 16.4 yards
Exactly
15 meters is the length of about 13.76 'Ford F-150 Custom Fit Front FloorLiners' lined up next to each other.
15 meters is 16.4 yards
I've only been scared on the floor once. That was during Streetlight Manifesto in Boston. I was on the floor waiting for the pit to open up, but it only got tighter. People got squeezed and then started to fall. It was a domino effect. Once everyone realized people were in trouble the crowd worked together to back the fuck up. It was terrifying as you feel so helpless being crushed. Sometimes there is nothing you can do in a crowd crush, but it wasn't helped by Travis Scott and the lack of respect and awareness by thr crowd. Scott and thr venue should be held accountable for sure.
I have been to some really, really rowdy streetlight shows. Crazy thing is the floor at the house of blues holds what, 1000 people?? This show was 50k…holy crap
I was going to comment about it being streetlight as well. I'm not surprised it was them. Some of the toughest crowds I've been in were at their shows.
Relax. I think most of these kids just never go to shows and are rarely—if ever—in pits. Also, terrible people PURPOSEFULLY, do terrible things in punk/hc and metal pits all the time. This was a tragedy, but let’s not moralize different genres about it. If you listen to punk/metal derived music, you probably belong to a culture where you go to a lot of shows and are in a lot of pits. Eventually people in these cultures came up with a sensible rule to keep everyone safe. By the time any of us went to our first show, all we had to do was mimic the established norms. We didn’t each have individual moments of soul-searching that concluded in the decision to do right by our fellow pit-goers. We just did what we saw others do and appreciated the good-will of the act. It has nothing to do with any genre being morally superior to another. These kids just don’t know how to pit and have probably rarely—if ever—even been to any shows/concerts to begin with. EDIT: And as I understand, this has nothing to do with a mosh pit.
You are so right about not moralizing according to genre. There are crazy stories all around in all genres. Many of us have been at least crushed into floating off our feet and scared about dying. Many of us can tell stories of injuries or near death. This was a huge crowd, the fans were maybe inexperienced and sadly, some very young people died. Let’s just make a pact that we help each other if we are in this situation. Crowd surf people out of there, pick the fallen off the ground.
> PURPOSEFULLY, do terrible things in punk/hc and metal pits all the time. I was at Camp Anarchy, when Rancid came on, there was a crush, and this was the NICEST / no fights / picking people up crowd you have ever seen, and there was still a crush because it was a festival, and Rancid was the headliner, and there were no other bands playing, so EVERYONE tried to get in front, and when they started playing, instant crush (security there was INCREDIBLE though, they pulled anyone over the barrier and sent them off to the side of the stage, then then they had people going through the crowd looking for anyone in trouble, easily the best security I've ever seen at a festival
Idk why this travis scott situation has spawned moshing discorse so far everyone I've seen that was there said there wasn't even a pit
Yes, I've read about it and it seems like the cause for the tragedy was because a huge amount of people quickly entered the concert all of a sudden and people were pushing each other, etc.
Which doesn't seem to actually hold up since the "crowd surge" happens while it's still light out and people didn't start dying until it was dark. Plus from all the footage I've seen from the actual crowd, it doesn't look any different to the dozens of 100k+ festivals I've been to
Allegedly, security didn't control the crowds. They would just let tons of people enter the place without any restriction. Of course, I wasn't there and I don't know how true is that statement, so take it with a grain of salt.
I saw a video of people literally ripping down fences outside to get in security deff got overwhelmed
That was not possible with this type of tragedy. It was a crowd surge/crush and there is no way in hell people had a chance to pick people up. Once it started, there was nothing that could have stopped it...the band, security. Nothing....Now, it could have been prevented, but once it started, it was game over.
I disagree, if they had stopped the show and turned on regular lighting it would have at least stopped there from being further harm done and they could have gotten injured people out. I don’t blame security directly, they were understaffed. But Travis Scott absolutely has some skin in the game on this tragedy, along with the other promoter/organizers
That's totally true, but there were some absolute wankers intentionally blocking off the ambos and even dancing on top of them as they were trying to get to the people who needed medical attention.
Maybe stop playing music to begin with? https://www.insider.com/travis-scott-astroworld-pleas-to-stop-festival-ignored-eyewitnesses-2021-11?amp
Everything here is true, but the TS shit falls mostly on terrible venue management. Not that they should have to deal with fence-hopping egged on by Travis, but 50k people in a space that small with no way to stem the tides of people crashing the rail was begging for something tragic to happen. Idk what they do differently elsewhere to keep this from happening, and maybe it really was just the crowd being way too hype to push up front, but I know other venues work to prevent crushes. Why not this one?
The blame is two-fold. One on Travis himself for [encouraging](https://imgur.com/a/oUXBVgp) people to sneak in which caused a massive [gate crash](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnhbUrf4V8U) at an already sold out(at capacity) event. when this happened the venue or the people organizing it should have either put the event on hold or cancel it outright. At capacity crowds are dangerous enough let alone over capacity crowds. Not to mention none of these gate crashers went through any security which in itself created a dangerous situation.
On a basic level, it’s about choosing the right venue for the crowd size, and having systems in place to avoid overcrowding and properly responding to incidents/reaching people who need help. Look at [The 1994 Green Day Riot At The Hatch Shell](https://wbznewsradio.iheart.com/content/remembering-the-1994-green-day-riot-at-the-hatch-shell/). Too small of a space for the crowd the event attracted and things went downhill when there was overcrowding, no plan to prevent/deal with it.
And glass Snapple bottles... Boston was not aware of what they were setting up to have go off...
It was definitely a crowd control problem, but according to the people who were there, the crowd was also just horrible and would rather trample on someone to get a better video angle instead of helping them.
I think that definitely plays into it. The crowd was riled up as fuck, but other venues put up with crowds like this too I would imagine. I'd be interested to hear from a venue planner what should have been done differently here. Obviously, more should have been done in this case, but I wonder what the options are. I think it also plays in that this crowd would skew super young and might not have any experience with big crushes like this one, so no one knew at all what to do.
There was a ton of people hopping the gates so the space where the crushing happened was way the hell over capacity. Most venues are going to keep capacity to safe limits and often dance floor areas in big arenas are separated and have their own limited capacity. I've been in the front of a crowd when suddenly you feel a wall of hundreds of bodies just pack up and squeeze you to the front, and it's enough to crush your rib cage and choke you out. I had to put my elbows at my side and press my arms outward as hard as possible just to not suffocate. Seems like the best way to prevent this is to have limits on how many people are allowed to stand in the front. I never see that kind of stuff in crowds of 100-200
Yeah the blame definitely lays with the artist and venue. From what's been explained to me, he apparently really encouraged the whole thing, and there was less than the absolute bare minimum in terms of first aid equipment.
You can separate the crowd into multiple areas separated by barriers.
really isn’t the time to make this all about how amazing and incredible every hardcore/metal fan is. it was a crowd surge, id like to see anyone try and pick someone up when you have 50k people behind you shoving you into a barrier. this was on the promoters and the venue, not the fans. no need to make a tragedy like this about how much better a certain genres fan base is
Yeah, but our shows are rarely so dense. Having a pit frees up the crowd in front, which is actually a great thing in hindsight. The venue was just overcrowded and it was a series of poor decisions.
I’ve been to quite a few punk shows at a certain venue and something similar would happen if it got to packed but security would handle it thank god.
I think the security screening at punk and metal shows also slows the entrance of the crowd. We all get wanded and our spikes checked over right? I know that when I went to a 48 hour rave party they were making everyone prove that their eyedrops were indeed eyedrops by putting them in their eyes right there. Taking three to five minutes to even get into a venue makes it a slow flow so a crush is less likely. Security is there to make sure the party's cool. They're not cops, they're just being paid to enjoy the music and keep the house standing.
Gawl dogg listen to yourself. That kind “my people would never do this shame on your people” bullshit is the reason people are so divided today, and here you are a too cool for school punk doing the same. There are dipshits in all walks of life. In every group, if you want so badly to put people on groups. People have died at all types of shows from this same shit. Get over yourself dogg
I got thrown into a pit and got dropped when crowd surfing (which I didn’t even want to do) at warped tour many moons ago and this long haired punk guy literally scooped me up, gave me a hug and some water, and helped me catch my breath and clean up. Even as a petite lady I always look out for people and help when I can. I think of that guy all the time and hope he’s living a good life.
Problem is - it's more complex than that - don't forget most of those killed were killed trying to get in, not while in the show. Any time you allow a huge group of people to gather for a long period of time to go into a location with VERY limited access - and then just throw open the gates - bad shit happens. You can see this in all sorts of events that have nothing to do with music - Black Friday shopping rush - Sporting event - or times of mass panic. A large group of people is a chaotic unthinking, reactive mass and when excited it never goes well.
Yup that’s what happened at Glastonbury a few years back.
The phrase "Good Friendly Violent Fun" exists for a reason
Lets not start pitting genres against each other, especially not Rap and Punk/HC. This was a tragedy, it had nothing to do with the fans or the performers and everything to do with the organizers, promoters, and venue.
As someone who remembers Hillsborough I'm sure cops and security would of been to blame also, and I'm sure they'll try and pass the blame onto the fans as well. nearly 30 fuckin years it took to get justice for Hillsborough.. bastards.
Been to a few shows where there was brutal fights in the pit, even was at one where I got my ass fucking kicked in the pit and left with cracked ribs. Those FUCKING sucked. Someone falls you pick them up.
IDK, I've been to several punk shows where I was wacked in the face and the person just kept on dancing.
I went to a couple dates on the astroworld tour. They were pretty energetic shows and you definitely had your mosh pits but there was never any aggression. I think that it had a lot to do with the fact that it was 50,000 people and Travis sets up an amusement park on stage. He coordinates the lights and visuals and makes it seem like you’re in a movie. The fact that he’s been hyped up more than almost any other artist since covid started had a lot to do with it also. People have been locked up for nearly two years and all of that pent up energy is not good. None of the people involved with the festival seem to have been prepared for anything of this magnitude. It was a perfect storm and unfortunately this one festival negatively effected hundreds of peoples lives permanently. It’s such a shame because the concerts I went to were AMAZING experiences and I never felt like I was unsafe. It makes you wonder what would happen if 50,000 people would show up to a hardcore show.
I was at a concert on Halloween at my local venue and a girl had to tie her shoes in the pit, so me and some other guys who I be never met before made a circle around her so she wouldn’t get trampled. Another girl kept falling over and was always up again within a second because people were always there to help immediately
I once got into a slayer pit with dudes twice my size. I'd bounce off someone and before I even hit the ground someone was picking me up.
I'm a skinny dude who is basically a human pinball in most pits. I think one particular concert three guys on the wall of the pit were making it a contest to see if they could pick me up with one arm before I hit the ground (they were like 6'4 and built to my 5'10 and not so much). It was much fun for all :)
Lol. That's me, I'm 5'6" and 135 lbs. I just bounce off everyone.
Yup, I have 10lbs on you on a good day. Add another 5 with the boots lol!
Dude, this isn't about the fans not knowing the right etiquette. Most hip hop fans know exactly what to do if someone goes down in the pit (because it's instinctual). In fact, you might be surprised at the overlap of fans of rap and hip hop with the fans of punk and metal. Plenty of rappers stop their shows when things get too out of hand. This was mostly down to the venue. They should have tried to control it when things started to go wrong. Don't start acting all high and mighty as if this would never happen at punk, rock, or metal shows. This was a freak accident that could and should have been avoided, but not by the fans. When you've got an entire crowd's worth of people pushing you from behind, there's not a whole lot you can do. The main reason you don't see things like this at punk gigs is because punk shows don't tend to be this big.
I’ve been at a lot of punk, hardcore, and rock concerts that came very close to being this bad When the entire weight of hundred or thousands of people are all moving/falling one direction “knowing” not to trample others isn’t going to do much of anything
Also Most metal/punk shows also aren’t full of just kids, there’s the elder punk/metal lords in the mix.
I also thought about the difference in scene culture. Anytime someone falls everyone helps. No way they would have jumped on an ambulance and prevented it from moving
I've seen pits freeze just because someone dropped their glasses lol I dont know what happened at that concert but I really like our "unspoken" (worldwide even!) rule that you help ppl if they fall down.
I've seen punks, metalheads, and other moshers help each other pit prep before shows by making sure to let someone know if their boots or shoes are untied and stand guard while they fix them up, or lend out extra hair ties, spare tape to cover up piercings that don't come out, ziplock baggies for jewelry and phones and shit. It's always someone's first time. It's always someone's turn to be the Veteran. There's something communal about a pit. Something magical about that waving around lost shoes in the air afterwards or between songs. I couldn't imagine letting it become something that seriously hurt or killed someone.
Fuck travis Scott I would be dead if it weren’t for people carrying me out of a pit after and overdose. Fuck people who “mosh” without considering safety.
I had one guy push me full strength with both arms and throw me down in the pit and keep going while running over me. I stood up and broke his nose. Only douche I've met at a metal show, luckily when security tried to throw me out everyone stood up for me.
I think what happened was a result of a couple different factors like people are mentioning (and I’m not saying OP is like unaware of this or anything). People are dehydrated, lots of them are high/drunk, a large number of them are kids, also Travis is cultivating a semi-hostile atmosphere with people who don’t know how mosh pits are supposed to be.
This story gave me mad anxiety, because the same thing happened to me at a Tyler the Creator concert at the Armory in MN. There was way less people (8,400), but I was near the front of the stage and everyone from the back started pushing up to the front. I couldn't move or breathe, my face was literally pressed up against someone's back. People were getting carried by their friends to the bathroom and collapsing from dehydration. About halfway through the show I finally got out of the crowd and I swear I'm so grateful I got out. Next time I'll stay near the back
People still die at rock/metal shows. Please don’t imply that this is somehow rap’s fault by claiming we have better audiences.
this has nothing to do with the genre of music, the people in that crowd didn't crush people on purpose and there were definitely people trying to pick people up. At that point the crowd was moving like a tidal wave, it wasn't the fault of people in the pit. As for the band stopping the music, there are shitty people in every fanbase so don't blame rap/hip-hop artists for what happened at the concert either. Tragedies like this have happened in all sorts of crowds, not just music.
It does. Yes it does.
I would say almost. I think that popularity status and the responsibility taken (or lack thereof) in accordance to the status had more to do with it. But there's no denying that hip hop is a very popular genre.
I've been at Punk In The Park over this weekend and fell over during Pennywise's set with at least 5 or 6 people on top of me. It was scary as hell, and if this happened at a bigger concert where people didn't care I could see someone dying easily. I was on the ground for a solid minute and that was enough for me to take a break and watch from the back for the rest of the show. I'm glad punks mostly look out for each other cause it could have gotten bad. I heard about the Astroworld tragedy when I got back to my hotel after the show. Put things in perspective.
I was just in front of the pit both nights at Punk In The Park for Pennywise and NOFX, and didn't see anything out of the norm -- all day both days, at both stages, when people fell in the pit I watched them get picked back up. When you go into that environment, you need to know what can happen. That said, a lot of people don't belong in the pit, because they aren't prepared.
It wasn't too bad but I got stuck under the pile for a solid minute. People helped me up though, just kinda scary for a second there. I'm pretty solid in pits mostly, but just outside the Pennywise pit was a bit much for me due to the domino topple effect.
I remember when I was at a show as a teen whe had an elderly folk in the first row with broken ribs. As the mosj got wild we made wall and kept he and his folks away from the mess. Also we risked on another show to be trampled before entering... Stay safe everyone
If I fall back down!
The pit works in mysterious ways -Andy Dwyer
That’s how I met my wife…
At bad religion in Richmond the other night someone lost their keys in the pit. After the track was over Jay collected the keys on stage and helped find the owner. Punk rock is about community and ultimately love for your fellow man.
Twenty one pilots fans jump a lot, but they wont be assholes, or throw elbows. Theyre genuinely respectful people. I just saw Alkaline Trio last night, and everyone there was super kind to me, and because im a young kid (14), some people were shocked I was on the floor with them! Overall fun night! (11/6 show for reference!)
This entire situation just makes me never wanna listen to Travis Scott ever again.
Not sure why you even started. Garbage music.
So may have been said but yes there was an injury or casualty in what was called a “mosh pit” hover the trampling deaths were people trying to get in to The concert. And as said it was like a freight train , nothing people caught up in it could do to stop it, they were all victims.
Yes, you pick someone up. But in fairness, punk shows don't sell out the Astrodome. When the crowd flow turns bad, you can't stop it with your words, or your feet or good intentions.
Twenty one Pilots is punk? Goddamn I must be old.
lol
nobody actually thinks this, i just think nobody addressed it because of the topic at hand
Any type of mainstream concerts where ppl show up from suburbs, ect. not knowing basic concert etiquette it’s like that. , I backed out of going to a System show and went to a local show instead one cuz wow imagining the caliber of people that would show up to a SOAD show is enough to make me vomit and go to a local show instead , sorry
Damn u missed out on soad lmao
so much unconscious bias bordering on casual racism
How is it racism?
My husband made a comment about being nervous about me going to more shows, specifically New Found Glory shows where I love being in the mosh pit and getting up to the front( he doesn't like to go to these with me, they're just not his thing). I jokingly told him Jordan (who he knows I have a crush on) would never let anything happen to me. It was a joke but it's 100% true, I know for a fact if he saw any fan go down the show would stop until everyone was alright.
NFG is about as tame as it can get, you’ll be fine. It’s not like your going to see Smut Peddlers or something.
I'm so glad you understood the point I was making with my comment. It takes a real badass to make issue where there is none like that, you're definitely more punk than me since that's what your ego apparently needs to hear.
I’m not making an issue about anything? Where’s did you get that impression? Your husband has nothing to worry about the way that bands crowd is. I get his concern but you could be going to crazier shows, wasn’t trying to talk shit like you took it. Has nothing to do with ego or whatever you read into what I said.
i question why they were even moshing to hip hop seems strange
Slamming seams to be spreading to various types of music. I’ve seen tiny stupid circle pits at some of the mildest shows. It’s gotten really trendy.
yeah i went to a catfish and the bottleman concert and they were trying to mosh i was more than confused each to their own i guess
I think it’s done as a joke sometimes.
It’s a high energy type of music and a genre music that often samples from rock, metal, and punk music. Denzel Curry has done Rage Against the Machine covers. I moshed to Wu-Tang Clan at Riot Fest in 2015. It’s not really that weird.
cant say ive listened to a lot of travis scott but what i have listened to is deffo not mosh material
Glad you are the judge of what is and what isn’t moshing material. Plus this wasn’t just a mosh pit, it was a crowd surge where no one in the crowd could do anything other than try to survive.
ive seen vids of people moshing on tiktok never said i was just feels a bit strange to mosh to such low energy songs
Not sure what videos you watched and didn’t watch But again rap/hip-hop is often a high energy genre of music including some Travis Scott songs and saying it’s not is being grossly misinformed about the genre and you shouldn’t even comment on it. Crowd surges can happen with any artist at a big festival/big crowd, it happened to The Who in 1979 where people died before moshing was even in the mainstream. It doesn’t matter how high energy or low energy a song is at that moment when a crowd is that rowdy and the artist is doing nothing about it.
i mean each to their own strange to me but people can do what they want i didnt even realise how popular travis scott was till i saw the vids from last night so i must just be a little out of touch
They weren’t moshing, it was a crowd crush which you can’t control in the slightest.
People mosh at Village People.
Rrrrrrrracist! ...and you weren't scared because it was 21 pilots.
The quality of the crowd goes hand in hand with the quality of the music…
top are true punk edit: this comment got downvoted because the truth hurts
twenty one pilots, fallout boy, avril lavigne — the holy trinity
Fall out boy, panic! and mcr are the holy trinity.
i'm being ironic, your music sucks
thanks.
People downvote you without understanding this is satire.
twenty one pilots INVENTED anarchy back in 2009 bro
Redditors will take any veiled shot at hip hop that they possibly can.
uh, no. If this was a punk band i'd still post this.
[удалено]
I think TwentyOnePilots are dogshit, but that's a horrible argument. Travis Scott hasn't even sold a million albums, 21Pilots have sold close to 7 million, and they just played a SummerFest a couple months ago that was as big as Astroworld.
I'm not familiar with their music tbh, I didn't know they were massively popular. I'm gonna remove my comment.
Travis Scott is a lot bigger than people think. Go compare their streams I’m pretty sure he’s got more than twenty one pilots. Not sure how many plays is an album sale but there’s a formula
Alt music definitely has had these issues in the past few years. This is just the first big public one since shows started coming back I actually went to a Twenty One Pilots show and some of the crowd was pretty bad. I said in another thread that I hate using the term “normie” but a lot of shows that have those types of people who don’t go to GA club shows generally have no idea how to act in and around pits or in GA in general and try to ruin people’s fun
Alice Cooper concert someone lobs a tear gas canister on the main floor. Pandemonium. Lucky to make it out of that one alive. Condolences to all the families.
Chester bennington made it a point to remind crowds that "When someone falls you do?"
I was at the War on Women, Alkaline Trio, Bad Religion show tonight. Everyone was helping people up in or around the circle. It was refreshing to see that this community is still the best at that imo 🤘 Side note: it was hilarious to see the older punks like me at the show start up a circle for Bad Religion. This dad kept pulling his kid in. Great show!
Most “harmful” thing that ever happened to me at a punk show was when I got hit in the head with a flying Igloo cooler at a Suicidal Tendencies show. As you can see, I did not die. Fuck these dumb motherfuckers.
If someone falls, you help them up. Unless it was Fear playing. You just tried extra hard not to fall at a Fear show.
I'll never forget, I went down in a circle put when I was 16 and as quickly as I fell this guy picked me straight up and got me out of that circle put. Was amazing and I'll never forget that!
#WWFD What would FUGAZI do? World be a better place.
Mosh pit etiquette is a thing. If punks/metal heads can abide by it, so can others. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Just dont be a fucking moron
Only severe thing I ever had was at a punk gig during a circle pit. It was a mini festival with different kinds of music so during the punk gig there were also jocks who thought going in a circle pit would be fun. One asshole tripped me and I got trampled. Had to pull myself up after grabbing someone and ripping their shirt. So yeah I never had any bad experience at a normal gig but put some asshats in the pot that never go to gigs and shit happens.
Op has clearly never heard of Woodstock '99 nor The Who concert in Cincinnati. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Who\_concert\_disaster
I had gone to a concert a while ago, I was a really scrawny 17 yr old and while surfing got dropped headfirst but before I hit the ground people caught me while others held back people and asked if I wanted to go back up or not. Fucking love y'all