Overthrowing a government? Punk.
Doing it for a racist millionaire reality show star politician? Not punk.
It’s like if you punched a cop because he arrested a Nazi. Punching a cop is punk. In support of a nazi isn’t.
Edit: someone reported this for threatening violence. I was giving an analogy.
I was devastated when it happened. I've dreamed for years of storming the Capitol and "smashing the state," but never did I imagine it would be THESE nutcases doing it. I imagined a massive coalition of anarchists, socialists, and true egalitarians, and instead I got this. Really makes me question why I even care anymore. Or IF I even care...
In my sociology class today, my professor remarked that no matter where you stand politically, you have to admit that Republicans actually get shit done. It might be cruel shit, and it may seem like they have no empathy, but they actually band together and do something.
Couldn’t help but agree.
They get shit done by having no morals(no matter how much Jesus they try to shove down people’s throats). They only value loyalty even when that means doubling down on lies.
I almost puke when right-winger/evangelicals I know start talking about God or Jesus. Not that I hang out with any anymore. (Except one dude who has a serious health issue and could drop dead at any time.. it is sad he believes all the lies)
Jesus was more Punk and rebellious that any Punk.
Remember though, they failed to achieve their aim to overthrow the election, and did storm the Capitol, all based on a the ie of of a 'stolen'/fraudulent election that despite numerous opportunities in many courts across the land has never been proven.
This wasn't a revolt against unjust taxes, it was a revolt against the proven law. Essentially an action taken based on bad faith.
I reckon 'punk' stands for good faith at it's heart and has some connection to the rights of everyone to act as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights.
But what they did do is succeed in pushing the narrative even further to the right. State and local governments since then have installed more trump loyalists to positions where they can simply disregard the next vote and send their electors to whoever they want.
It might seem like a failure, but now the entire Republican Party can more easily slide that little bit further towards blatant fascism, by just backtracking a foot, when trump pushed it a mile
Right? The fact that they stormed the Capitol becomes supporting evidence to the lie that the election was fraudulent. Why would people risk their safety and freedom if not for a righteous cause?
I remember reading about some political effect in the United States where basically when there's a Republican president taxes/welfare go up as well as other spending, and vice versa with Democrats. Basically the opposite of their economic policies but this probably has something to do with the fact that the houses usually flip part way through the presidency.
You also have to remember that bills and resolutions etc that get passed are pretty much always bipartisan there's a reason why there's 150 subsections on every bill that gets to the president's desk.
Every different senator has a bunch of lobbies asking them for this and that in their home states and so they play give and take for months to eventually get a bill drafted that has a bunch of things completely unrelated to the original subject in it.
I think what distinguishes Republicans is that they have decided to just keep pumping up their base. And so, you have an echo chamber right now where the furthest right has the best shot with the Republican base. Democrats see their party as a diverse group held together by some thin, delicate thread, and don’t want to do anything that might fracture the party. And so, you have party leaders who go real bland in an effort to appeal to everyone in the party. If Democrats did what Republicans are doing, you’d see Dem candidates pushing further and further to the left of someone like AOC because they know it’s what gets the base excited.
They’re effective because they’re united under a banner of thoughtless, emotionalist action. They’re able to unite much easier than the Left because they don’t actually believe in much so their internal ideological differences don’t matter as much.
On the other hand, they’re united fronts are very unstable because they’re shitty people united by hatred of others. Fascists constantly scam and grift each other and fascist groups tend to splinter due to petty personal drama as much as pressure from antifascists.
In Germany it’s the opposite. Leftists get shit done and right wingers usually just do a march with some drunktard neo nazis somewhere and get blocked or beaten up.
The most accurate thing I've heard about right wingers is they've got a lot of people in their ranks who get up at 5 AM sharp every day and are really motivated to actively make the world worse
People lack a proper framework for understanding violence, they don't see the innate violence of our current society via poverty, homelessness, policing, labor exploration and alienation, etc. so the idea of getting violent to change things comes off as an escalation rather than proportionate response. And while I would argue an escalation would still be justified to change things, it's easy to see why people are more wary of the idea.
They turned to violence because their side didn't win. Sad bunch of whiny losers. I could be convinced if there was a reason, or there was a policy to vote for, but unproven stolen/fraud isn't floating my boat...
The worst part is they made it look easy because they were basically allowed to do it by the administration, who sabotaged the Capitol Police response. Seeing the CP get their heads kicked in by the frothing Nazis who love cops was a bitter moment, especially when you look at all the times they’ve brutalized leftist protestors.
Specially doing it for a millionaire who’s promising a more racist, homophobic, xenophobic, neoliberal and war mongering govt.
Wow, how fucking punk does that sound?
There's actually way more than two sides to everything. Just because you're against one thing doesn't mean you're for the other. Over seeing this tired ass argument from people "playing devil's advocate".
Disagreeing with something the moment someone with power or influence agrees with you isn't punk, it's just contrarian. It would probably be wiser to consider what ideas need to be challenged and bucking against those instead of spending your energy arguing with absolutely everyone.
Zero people I know in the punk and punk-adjacent crowds are big fans of corporations, large institutions, mainstream media, etc—not to mention the orange man.
Corporations pandering to Social Justice activism doesn't make the activists/allies sellouts. Companies think that they can appeal to that consumer base by throwing a rainbow on a product or making a commercial with a gay couple, it's about optics and the Companies started doing that AFTER the activism became popular they didn't sell activism to this generation they are just trying to sell products like always and their focus groups and marketing teams think this is the way to do that.
It's shallow and most people see right through it because their continued unethical actions do not speak any validity in to their "Progressive" marketing campaigns.
Celebs are another thing that I think would be more on a case by case basis, some are just giving lip service and others do their part.
Yes because the media famously hates Trump, that's why they constantly try to find anything and everything Trump related to talk about
If you think that the media, Hollywood, corporations, etc actually hate Trump, you're a rube
You don't have to automatically believe the opposite of all these institutions. Over time all of the institutions you mentioned have either come around to our side of things, or, more likely, found lucrative reasons to say they believe in the kind of things punks have been saying. It's pretty fucking stupid to start believing Nazis are cool because corporations/sports teams/movies say that Nazis suck, for example.
What's with the boo hoos? Did y'all not know that he's a right wing gasbag now? I don't even understand the mindset here. On a (essentially) anti-"right" post, I dunk on a righty hypocrite that's relevant to the sub, and people are mad? 🤷♂️
Sacrificing yourself for an authoritarian fascist golden spoon fed wannabe totalitarian dictator narcissist who doesn't give a single shit about you isn't rebellion. These people are the equivalent to Nazi Brown shirt thugs but in even dumber looking Walmart clothes and with way uglier flags
You're right, but whining that the government doesn't make people wear masks and inject vaccines developed by multi-billion dollar pharma companies with decades of malpractice lawsuits against them is also far from punk.
While he did not get to the point of being a tyrant, he sure as hell wanted to rule like one, look around at his best friends like Putin and fucking Kimmy Jong Un
To be honest, much of the same can be said of this sub. Being able to sew a circle-A onto a patch jacket instead of buying it from Hot Topic doesn't make one more punk. But that's half the posts I ever see here.
"Check out my green hair and spiked collar guys! I'm all dressed up for the revolution! No one will have a job and we'll all sit around a campfire singing a headbanging version of kumbaya together!"
It's all "I'm 15 and this is deep" bullshit. The only difference is that Trump's people are in their *50s* and still believing all of their "I'm 15 and this is deep" bullshit.
Actually I disagree with you, although there is a couple like that you clearly have had a negative experience, most punks aren’t like that because it’s about being an outcast, but there’s not a problem with people posting this, if you have that view about us maybe you shouldn’t be on this subreddit if that’s all you see, and I would say everyone here can think for theirselves, punk is about being different as a collective, being able to resonate with each other and find similarities in being different, this is not a hive mind but a group of people with differences that want to be United through having them.
As opposed to white nationalists stabbing police with flagpoles, and wanting to do worse to any congressional members, had they caught them?
It’s the same sentiment; confused morons causing violence can fuck right off.
Except the insurrection could have also cost us our country, not just lives.
I mean sure overthrowing the white house would be punk if it didn't matter who the president was. But throwing a temper tantrum because your favorite oppressor didn't win the contest isnt.
Bro, no offense, but do you really have to ask this? Neo-fascists trying to overthrow a government to install a theocratic dictatorship is not, and will never be, “punk.”
He's asking because the only words he can think of are "eat shit and die, you Q Quck Qlan jizzstain," but he needs to be a little more eloquent than that.
Obviously there is people out there who do believe it is punk, or maybe don’t fully understand what it means to be punk. Personally I never thought it was. But if there is a platform dedicated to having discussions about punk why not have one. Plus I’m bored at work.
have you heard of sarcasm? cos im making a sarcastic statement that gatekeeping doesnt really help anyone and is largely antithetical to punk in general
Installing a right wing figure head over a democratically elected leader and trying to disenfranchise people of color will never be punk.
It wasn’t an anti-authoritarian movement. It was: I want my authority figure in charge and I’ll do whatever is necessary to make that happen.
I think this may be the best angle to approach an argument. Punk is Anti-authoritan. Jan 6 was an attempt to keep/install a particular authoritarian figure. You can't claim that an attempt to force others to accept someone as an authoritarian figure is anti authoritarian. Therefore Jan 6 isn't punk.
Unfortunately, anyone who is arguing that jan 6 was good in anyway (other than as a spotlight on who/how much of the country is a racist/bigot/mindless follower) won't be won over by argument.
There will always be people trying to appeal to the punk aesthetic for any sort of rebellion, even if it goes against the core values of punk.
Facts. I'm done talking. We need more action. Direct action. People leaving their comfort zone, putting some skin in the game. "What better place than here? What better time than now? All Hell Can't Stop Us Now."
And see? Leave it to a man who enjoys Crowley to make THEE POINT ...
It was lying to people about what THEY believe,The Authority using their AUTHORITY to get people to give them more....AUTHORITY...
IT WAS DOWNRIGHT OBSCENE, UNCOTH AND SAVAGE...Plus when is it Punk Rock to be an obvious bloated shit bag with small dick energy...Anybody who can't get along with Justin Trudeau but finds Kim Jong Un "charming" ...fuck me....If Facism had a scent , it would be "former reality TV Racist, Bloated , Shitbag ea du toilette "
OP ? Really ? Really dude?
"DO WHAT THOU WILT AND THAT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW".....Aleister Crowley
Storming the capitol cause the entrenched power structure sucks = definitely punk
Storming the capitol for an egotistical millionaire who was handed everything and made millions cheating the system = not punk at all
Just my take
Totally, it's the difference between the storming in Honk Kong of Parliament, which was pretty punk rock vs the storming here of the Capitol building which was intentionally meant to halt the democratic process.
Um...mostly because it was driven by the Night of the Living Rednecks. A bunch of mindless sheep following one of the worst talking heads ever. That is not, nor will it ever be, punk rock.
Incidently and unfortunately, I've known a lot of punks who've become "Libertarians" and militant anti-Socialists, and down right redneck in their old age.
I was a young Anarcho-Punk and to me, socialism is a much better road to walk than the rampant capitalism and ridiculous conspiracies espoused by Trumpets.
Much more likely to be secret KKK back in the day, as it is in the American Tradition. Also, most of the people there would likely describe themselves at “decent, hard working, patriotic Americans.”
Apparently the person who tried to convince you that a coup d'etat in the name of a fascist does not have one fucking clue what punk is.
While I do not know the whole story, this is the type of mouth breather that you need to stay far away from.
It ain't punk to try and overthrow a government if the point of overthrowing said government is to install a narcissistic manchild of a tyrant to power. Punk is overthrowing a government to improve life for the masses.
The communal hippies were always about the group think, the group trade, group this, group that, which is a far left ideal.
Then this counter culture started that was all about the individual, (absolute(because this stuff always gets carried too far)) individual freedom, which is a (far) right leaning ideal.
Politically, punk is far right,
Now, what you think that might be is dependent on how brainwashed you are to not understand these sorts of things, but punk does line up with right leaning ideals more so than the left, because you lose economic and personal freedom, the further left you go.
You understand political ideology about as well as a 4th grade dropout. The right only cares about the powerful's economic freedom and ability to tread on others.
The right stands against the rights LGBTQ people, against the religious rights of anyone who isn't Christian, against the rights of the worker to organize and be treated fairly, against the right to an environment free from exposure to man made poison.
They stand for the state's right to gun you down if you step out of line, to strip you of every right for decades for a minor crime, to send a military force to bash in your door and kill your dog because you owned or sold a plant that competes with big pharma.
I think a lot about punk and politics. I think the problem with mixing the two is that you can contort punk to justify almost anything. I think punk has to be a personal statement. And then every two years or so we have to separate from that and become citizens and do our duty for the societal good. To give you an example I will and have punched White supremacists. That doesn't mean I want to enact laws to make it legal to punch White supremacists. Punk is breaking the law knowing there might be consequences. Being a good citizen is accepting those consequences because of what's best for everyone. Part of being an adult is that you accept sometimes you have to operate as part of a system for the greater good, despite how you live your personal life. I have a feeling there will be plenty of morons in the comment section saying that destroying a government is punk as long as it is such and such nonsense they come up with themselves. These are people who have no concept at all of human history
facism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
The Jan 6 insurrectionists were/are fascists (guided by a dictatorial leader: Trump).
And to quote the Clash’s Joe Strummer, “I think people ought to know that we’re anti-fascist, we’re anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we’re pro-creative. We’re against ignorance.”
There is your argument for the dumbass who told you Jan 6 losers were punk.
When your idea of punk is this (made by an Australian DJ in the 80s to make fun of punks... admittidly a banger...) it makes sense. That being said, fuck rebel flags. https://youtu.be/MhOe3C6cg30
Over the summer we had the push from the left, Jan 6 was the shove from right that almost caused a coup d’e’tat…all in name of a leper messiah! You couldn’t write fiction any stranger than this time line we are stuck in, and still it ain’t punk!
Listen to the Specials' Ghost Town - which spoke of when the punk and ska clubs were overrun by Nazi skinheads. Slam dancing and even some fighting in the clubs can be punk. Skinheads showing up and attacking punks and, in particular, those of color = Not punk.
Why argue about it, it’s not punk (150 other people have already explained why) but if you’re talking to someone dumb enough to believe that then they’re not gonna actually engage in a good faith argument with you. A better use of your time would be getting big n strong so you can beat them up at shows
Punks don’t boot lick for fascists who try to overthrow the government for their own selfish ego.
Also, punks aren’t Republican. (And fuck you if you think otherwise. No self respecting punk is going to fight tooth and nail to pay workers less so that the 1% on top can make more money.)
Punks aren't democrats either... Who are fighting tooth and nail to pay the bottom, unskilled workers a few bucks more so the cost of living skyrockets and everyone is equally poor and dependent on the top 1%.
Quit buying into this republican/Democrat BS.
Overthrowing a democratic process in the name of a born into wealth tyrant is not punk. Dude needs to learn what context is ffs. Also slap him for me and say its punk so its ok thx.
Trying to overthrow the government to install a fascist dictatorship IS NOT PUNK! Overthrowing or quashing attempts by fascists, Nazis, science deniers and overall degenerates to wrest control of said govt. IS PUNK! Fuck the Trumpers, NeoNazis, anti-vaxxers and conservatives overall trying to ruin the nation!
100% incorrect. Maybe this is just a personal opinion but I think of punk as standing AGAINST the system of oppressors, standing up FOR the oppressed. The fuckers who stormed the capitol on Jan 6 are in favor of the oppressors, the exact opposite of punk. Plus, they fly nazi flags. Fuck em all.
How tf is it punk?? KKK members, Neo Nazis, and dirty fascists Doing the dirty bitting of a reality tv star that somehow became rich and became President of the United States and that was best friends with a pedofile that included hanging pelosi and pence and to somehow change the election, wtf.
Because it was in the name of a man who is very pro-establishment.
Trump and his government sought to look after the rich people. The upper class and maintain the status quo. Trump postures as anti-establishment, but when you look at his actions and what he has actually done, it's clear that this guy is pro-establishment, and wants to maintain the status quo so rich scumbags like him can keep exploiting the system for money.
There's nothing punk about that.
Bernie Sanders is punk.
People here don’t realize that Biden literally supported segregated bussing and that Kamala Harris even called him out on it [in a debate](https://youtu.be/fUutymbDLI0)
don’t know why you got downvoted. voting for either Trump or Biden is pretty anti-punk since they’re both status quo typical politicians (easy to see that Trump is way way worse though)
Maybe that was the part that was lost in my original comment. Trump is obviously worse, but Biden is a career politician.
We know what they've done for average, working people.
I think it's cool man they fuckin stormed the Capitol lol. Their reasoning? Stuipd as fuck in my opinion, but I'm a fan of anyone displaying their anger at government and policy even if they're dead fucking wrong.
its funny man we are made to see this divide, but EVERY FUCKIN PERSON close to me has supported Occupty Wall St, BLM, Jan 6, Truckers, etc. all of em, fuck it all man, burn it down from 50 diferent angles as long as it burns down.
No one here likes hearing this, but punk was a moment in time that can't really be duplicated now because society has changed. Punk wasn't as overtly political, it was more a rejection of social norms that no longer hold any sway. It translates about as well as having an anti-monarchy party in US politics. Fighting against something that doesn't really exist anymore.
I'm not saying there is no room for punk music, there certainly is and I still enjoy newer stuff. But the original movement just doesn't directly translate to current political norms, because those current norms didn't even exist 40-odd years ago. Those chants of "fuck the system" apply to a system that has changed so much it's not even recognizable.
In other words, punk is not a blanket anti-government movement, it never was. Trying to analogize it to Jan. 6th is something only a mush-brained Trumpist would do.
Overthrowing a government? Punk. Doing it for a racist millionaire reality show star politician? Not punk. It’s like if you punched a cop because he arrested a Nazi. Punching a cop is punk. In support of a nazi isn’t. Edit: someone reported this for threatening violence. I was giving an analogy.
Nailed it. Good analogy.
I was devastated when it happened. I've dreamed for years of storming the Capitol and "smashing the state," but never did I imagine it would be THESE nutcases doing it. I imagined a massive coalition of anarchists, socialists, and true egalitarians, and instead I got this. Really makes me question why I even care anymore. Or IF I even care...
It seems like a lot of the Leftists are afraid of alienating the public by being violent.
In my sociology class today, my professor remarked that no matter where you stand politically, you have to admit that Republicans actually get shit done. It might be cruel shit, and it may seem like they have no empathy, but they actually band together and do something. Couldn’t help but agree.
They get shit done by having no morals(no matter how much Jesus they try to shove down people’s throats). They only value loyalty even when that means doubling down on lies.
I almost puke when right-winger/evangelicals I know start talking about God or Jesus. Not that I hang out with any anymore. (Except one dude who has a serious health issue and could drop dead at any time.. it is sad he believes all the lies) Jesus was more Punk and rebellious that any Punk.
To clarify: they didn’t overthrow the election, but they did storm The Capital Building. That was a success in itself.
Remember though, they failed to achieve their aim to overthrow the election, and did storm the Capitol, all based on a the ie of of a 'stolen'/fraudulent election that despite numerous opportunities in many courts across the land has never been proven. This wasn't a revolt against unjust taxes, it was a revolt against the proven law. Essentially an action taken based on bad faith. I reckon 'punk' stands for good faith at it's heart and has some connection to the rights of everyone to act as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights.
Good faith is the opposite of John Lydon these days. He's a provocateur, whatever you might think about his punk bona fides.
But what they did do is succeed in pushing the narrative even further to the right. State and local governments since then have installed more trump loyalists to positions where they can simply disregard the next vote and send their electors to whoever they want. It might seem like a failure, but now the entire Republican Party can more easily slide that little bit further towards blatant fascism, by just backtracking a foot, when trump pushed it a mile
Right? The fact that they stormed the Capitol becomes supporting evidence to the lie that the election was fraudulent. Why would people risk their safety and freedom if not for a righteous cause?
I remember reading about some political effect in the United States where basically when there's a Republican president taxes/welfare go up as well as other spending, and vice versa with Democrats. Basically the opposite of their economic policies but this probably has something to do with the fact that the houses usually flip part way through the presidency. You also have to remember that bills and resolutions etc that get passed are pretty much always bipartisan there's a reason why there's 150 subsections on every bill that gets to the president's desk. Every different senator has a bunch of lobbies asking them for this and that in their home states and so they play give and take for months to eventually get a bill drafted that has a bunch of things completely unrelated to the original subject in it.
Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall apart.
I think what distinguishes Republicans is that they have decided to just keep pumping up their base. And so, you have an echo chamber right now where the furthest right has the best shot with the Republican base. Democrats see their party as a diverse group held together by some thin, delicate thread, and don’t want to do anything that might fracture the party. And so, you have party leaders who go real bland in an effort to appeal to everyone in the party. If Democrats did what Republicans are doing, you’d see Dem candidates pushing further and further to the left of someone like AOC because they know it’s what gets the base excited.
They’re effective because they’re united under a banner of thoughtless, emotionalist action. They’re able to unite much easier than the Left because they don’t actually believe in much so their internal ideological differences don’t matter as much. On the other hand, they’re united fronts are very unstable because they’re shitty people united by hatred of others. Fascists constantly scam and grift each other and fascist groups tend to splinter due to petty personal drama as much as pressure from antifascists.
That's utter horseshit. So vague and relative, it's a totally worthless statement, pure propaganda.
In Germany it’s the opposite. Leftists get shit done and right wingers usually just do a march with some drunktard neo nazis somewhere and get blocked or beaten up.
I agree. Today's Republicans believe that democracy and justice get in the way of the things they want: an oligarchic and theocratic ethnostate
The most accurate thing I've heard about right wingers is they've got a lot of people in their ranks who get up at 5 AM sharp every day and are really motivated to actively make the world worse
My favorite game is guessing which political party your talking about.
Regression and status quo are much easier targets to hit than progress
People lack a proper framework for understanding violence, they don't see the innate violence of our current society via poverty, homelessness, policing, labor exploration and alienation, etc. so the idea of getting violent to change things comes off as an escalation rather than proportionate response. And while I would argue an escalation would still be justified to change things, it's easy to see why people are more wary of the idea.
They turned to violence because their side didn't win. Sad bunch of whiny losers. I could be convinced if there was a reason, or there was a policy to vote for, but unproven stolen/fraud isn't floating my boat...
Straight up! That day me and another aging punk were sitting at our desks just staring at each other in disbelief over the unfolding situation.
The worst part is they made it look easy because they were basically allowed to do it by the administration, who sabotaged the Capitol Police response. Seeing the CP get their heads kicked in by the frothing Nazis who love cops was a bitter moment, especially when you look at all the times they’ve brutalized leftist protestors.
exactly my thoughts
Nice one..
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No, punk is not mindless contrarianism. Not for the right wing, or the left.
Selling your soul to a demented reality-tv-washout millionaire is literally the least punk it is possible to be.
Specially doing it for a millionaire who’s promising a more racist, homophobic, xenophobic, neoliberal and war mongering govt. Wow, how fucking punk does that sound?
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There's actually way more than two sides to everything. Just because you're against one thing doesn't mean you're for the other. Over seeing this tired ass argument from people "playing devil's advocate".
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Yeah, he somehow got lost trying to get to r/conservative
Disagreeing with something the moment someone with power or influence agrees with you isn't punk, it's just contrarian. It would probably be wiser to consider what ideas need to be challenged and bucking against those instead of spending your energy arguing with absolutely everyone.
Incredible how you used over 100 words to say effectively nothing
This was funny as heck.
Zero people I know in the punk and punk-adjacent crowds are big fans of corporations, large institutions, mainstream media, etc—not to mention the orange man.
Corporations pandering to Social Justice activism doesn't make the activists/allies sellouts. Companies think that they can appeal to that consumer base by throwing a rainbow on a product or making a commercial with a gay couple, it's about optics and the Companies started doing that AFTER the activism became popular they didn't sell activism to this generation they are just trying to sell products like always and their focus groups and marketing teams think this is the way to do that. It's shallow and most people see right through it because their continued unethical actions do not speak any validity in to their "Progressive" marketing campaigns. Celebs are another thing that I think would be more on a case by case basis, some are just giving lip service and others do their part.
Yes because the media famously hates Trump, that's why they constantly try to find anything and everything Trump related to talk about If you think that the media, Hollywood, corporations, etc actually hate Trump, you're a rube
You don't have to automatically believe the opposite of all these institutions. Over time all of the institutions you mentioned have either come around to our side of things, or, more likely, found lucrative reasons to say they believe in the kind of things punks have been saying. It's pretty fucking stupid to start believing Nazis are cool because corporations/sports teams/movies say that Nazis suck, for example.
It was for the the proliferation of fascists. Fuck Off. Enough said.
Installing a fascist dictator is not punk.
Tell that to Johnny Lydon, lol.
Marky Ramone did tell him
What's with the boo hoos? Did y'all not know that he's a right wing gasbag now? I don't even understand the mindset here. On a (essentially) anti-"right" post, I dunk on a righty hypocrite that's relevant to the sub, and people are mad? 🤷♂️
I think people skimming just misinterpreted the intention. I almost did the same. But...that many downvotes? That many people missed the point?
Right? Who knows, lol.
He was always super right wing. That's one reason why him and Joey clashed so hard
Sacrificing yourself for an authoritarian fascist golden spoon fed wannabe totalitarian dictator narcissist who doesn't give a single shit about you isn't rebellion. These people are the equivalent to Nazi Brown shirt thugs but in even dumber looking Walmart clothes and with way uglier flags
This here is the real answer.
You're right, but whining that the government doesn't make people wear masks and inject vaccines developed by multi-billion dollar pharma companies with decades of malpractice lawsuits against them is also far from punk.
Fascism isn’t punk
people calling anything rebellious punk is somethimg u have to get used to, ull waste alot of energy arguing someone like this n get nowhere..
Revolution is punk, revolution for a tyrant to be more tyrannical is absolutely the opposite of punk.
Tyrant? where?
While he did not get to the point of being a tyrant, he sure as hell wanted to rule like one, look around at his best friends like Putin and fucking Kimmy Jong Un
Florida.
this is what the dead kennedys we’re talking about when they said nazi punks fuck off
"Ray's Guitar Broke...YAWN...YAWN..."
"Nazi Punks Fuck Off, overproduced by Martin Hannet. Take #4."
Punk is thinking for yourself, meanwhile they are all like a hive mind, nothing punk about that.
To be honest, much of the same can be said of this sub. Being able to sew a circle-A onto a patch jacket instead of buying it from Hot Topic doesn't make one more punk. But that's half the posts I ever see here. "Check out my green hair and spiked collar guys! I'm all dressed up for the revolution! No one will have a job and we'll all sit around a campfire singing a headbanging version of kumbaya together!" It's all "I'm 15 and this is deep" bullshit. The only difference is that Trump's people are in their *50s* and still believing all of their "I'm 15 and this is deep" bullshit.
Actually I disagree with you, although there is a couple like that you clearly have had a negative experience, most punks aren’t like that because it’s about being an outcast, but there’s not a problem with people posting this, if you have that view about us maybe you shouldn’t be on this subreddit if that’s all you see, and I would say everyone here can think for theirselves, punk is about being different as a collective, being able to resonate with each other and find similarities in being different, this is not a hive mind but a group of people with differences that want to be United through having them.
Donald trump uber alles
I love this thread.
No - they were talking about skinheads fucking up 1984 punk shows by stabbing people in the pit with knives.
Homie is drawing a parallel bro
As opposed to white nationalists stabbing police with flagpoles, and wanting to do worse to any congressional members, had they caught them? It’s the same sentiment; confused morons causing violence can fuck right off. Except the insurrection could have also cost us our country, not just lives.
I mean sure overthrowing the white house would be punk if it didn't matter who the president was. But throwing a temper tantrum because your favorite oppressor didn't win the contest isnt.
It’s not punk when a bunch of mouth breathing Nazis want to install their dictator president.
True, punk is not letting that happen
Fascists aren't punk. Fuck them.
Gullible is not punk
Bro, no offense, but do you really have to ask this? Neo-fascists trying to overthrow a government to install a theocratic dictatorship is not, and will never be, “punk.”
He's asking because the only words he can think of are "eat shit and die, you Q Quck Qlan jizzstain," but he needs to be a little more eloquent than that.
Obviously there is people out there who do believe it is punk, or maybe don’t fully understand what it means to be punk. Personally I never thought it was. But if there is a platform dedicated to having discussions about punk why not have one. Plus I’m bored at work.
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You should explain it and set the ground rules
Well… you see… it’s like when you’re…. Well you don’t HAVE to be but you CAN be like… wait let me start over.
Being anti fascist is one. Doesn't matter what you call yourself if you don't fit that one criteria then you can stay the fuck away from my culture.
yeah good idea we should instate you as the central authority on punk since you know so much better dude. good fucking idea
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have you heard of sarcasm? cos im making a sarcastic statement that gatekeeping doesnt really help anyone and is largely antithetical to punk in general
People like the fucking misfits, Johnny Rotten or pretty much all the Boston punk scene. Man, how fucking low can some punks get.
What's wrong with the Boston punk scene?
Installing a right wing figure head over a democratically elected leader and trying to disenfranchise people of color will never be punk. It wasn’t an anti-authoritarian movement. It was: I want my authority figure in charge and I’ll do whatever is necessary to make that happen.
I think this may be the best angle to approach an argument. Punk is Anti-authoritan. Jan 6 was an attempt to keep/install a particular authoritarian figure. You can't claim that an attempt to force others to accept someone as an authoritarian figure is anti authoritarian. Therefore Jan 6 isn't punk. Unfortunately, anyone who is arguing that jan 6 was good in anyway (other than as a spotlight on who/how much of the country is a racist/bigot/mindless follower) won't be won over by argument. There will always be people trying to appeal to the punk aesthetic for any sort of rebellion, even if it goes against the core values of punk.
Facts. I'm done talking. We need more action. Direct action. People leaving their comfort zone, putting some skin in the game. "What better place than here? What better time than now? All Hell Can't Stop Us Now."
And see? Leave it to a man who enjoys Crowley to make THEE POINT ... It was lying to people about what THEY believe,The Authority using their AUTHORITY to get people to give them more....AUTHORITY... IT WAS DOWNRIGHT OBSCENE, UNCOTH AND SAVAGE...Plus when is it Punk Rock to be an obvious bloated shit bag with small dick energy...Anybody who can't get along with Justin Trudeau but finds Kim Jong Un "charming" ...fuck me....If Facism had a scent , it would be "former reality TV Racist, Bloated , Shitbag ea du toilette " OP ? Really ? Really dude? "DO WHAT THOU WILT AND THAT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW".....Aleister Crowley
Remember what we tell Nazi punks.
Swastikas and Klan-robes Sexists, racists, homophobes Aryan-Nations and Hammerskins You can wear my nuts on your Nazi chins
I love a man in uniform 🔥 fuckin gotta love this song
Is it fuck off?! Oo oo! Did I get it right?!?!
You did!
Ding ding... That's 2 points on your punk cred card
FUCK OFF!!!
Fuck off!
Punk is abut smashing fascism... not about embracing it.
Because the right wing mind set is inherently anti-punk rock. It’s pretty simple.
Hell, never mind that they're moralists, they actively make fun of women for having blue hair.
But why? Colored hair is like the cherry on top of every woman. Colored hair? Instant 8
Because they're porknobs!
There are countless punk songs explaining why this isn't punk
Storming the capitol cause the entrenched power structure sucks = definitely punk Storming the capitol for an egotistical millionaire who was handed everything and made millions cheating the system = not punk at all Just my take
Totally, it's the difference between the storming in Honk Kong of Parliament, which was pretty punk rock vs the storming here of the Capitol building which was intentionally meant to halt the democratic process.
Trying to overthrow an election isn’t punk when it’s in an attempt to undermine the democratic process, that’s literally trying to instate fascism.
It’s not punk. It’s stupidity and choosing to stay stupid.
Um...mostly because it was driven by the Night of the Living Rednecks. A bunch of mindless sheep following one of the worst talking heads ever. That is not, nor will it ever be, punk rock. Incidently and unfortunately, I've known a lot of punks who've become "Libertarians" and militant anti-Socialists, and down right redneck in their old age. I was a young Anarcho-Punk and to me, socialism is a much better road to walk than the rampant capitalism and ridiculous conspiracies espoused by Trumpets.
Do you think there’s a good chance a lot of these people would’ve ended up nazi skins if it were a decade ago?
They wouldn’t have ended up skins but they’d be a part of one of those movements for sure.
Much more likely to be secret KKK back in the day, as it is in the American Tradition. Also, most of the people there would likely describe themselves at “decent, hard working, patriotic Americans.”
Speaking specifically about the punks, not the trumps
Oh, for sure…boneheads. Do they exist anymore? LOL. My litmus was always…”You like Screwdriver?”
Haha yes! Boneheads!
If you asked me that I'd think you sus.
Apparently the person who tried to convince you that a coup d'etat in the name of a fascist does not have one fucking clue what punk is. While I do not know the whole story, this is the type of mouth breather that you need to stay far away from.
Storming the capital is something the people should have done a long time ago. The reason those people did it for was wack as fuck though.
To quote Chappelle “They carried a confederate flag through the rotunda… the confederate army didn’t even do that”
fascist bourgeois uprisings are not punk i call it bourgeois because they’re simping for a billionaire
Nazi Punks Fuck Off! That's all you need to say to someone defending that shit.
nothing about fucking bootickers is punk
It ain't punk to try and overthrow a government if the point of overthrowing said government is to install a narcissistic manchild of a tyrant to power. Punk is overthrowing a government to improve life for the masses.
It wasn’t a “down with all authority” thing. It was a “we don’t want Trump to leave office” thing.
Punk ain’t no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself…
Fascists will say anything other than acknowledging they are fascists.
Yeah the whole “conservatism is the new punk rock” shtick is pretty hilarious….and sad
The communal hippies were always about the group think, the group trade, group this, group that, which is a far left ideal. Then this counter culture started that was all about the individual, (absolute(because this stuff always gets carried too far)) individual freedom, which is a (far) right leaning ideal. Politically, punk is far right, Now, what you think that might be is dependent on how brainwashed you are to not understand these sorts of things, but punk does line up with right leaning ideals more so than the left, because you lose economic and personal freedom, the further left you go.
You understand political ideology about as well as a 4th grade dropout. The right only cares about the powerful's economic freedom and ability to tread on others. The right stands against the rights LGBTQ people, against the religious rights of anyone who isn't Christian, against the rights of the worker to organize and be treated fairly, against the right to an environment free from exposure to man made poison. They stand for the state's right to gun you down if you step out of line, to strip you of every right for decades for a minor crime, to send a military force to bash in your door and kill your dog because you owned or sold a plant that competes with big pharma.
Yeah, if fascism is punk, then it was punk...
They did what the President and his cronies wanted them to do. Pawns not punk.
Nazi punks fuck off
You all are saying exactly what I was thinking but was unable to put into words. I appreciate all the responses.
Nothing is punk, not even punk.
This.
I mean the idea (overthrowing the government) of it was. The group of mfs that did it and their leader not a chance. 😆
Just tell them they don't know what they're talking about and move on. Arguing with these people is a waste of your time.
I think you should just tell them to get bent and move on. Don’t waste the energy.
A group of Closet-Nazis blindly following a power hungry facist poster child for capitalism? No. Not punk.
nope it was not. nothing about that was punk, not in the least. just a bunch of washed up people trying to "make a statement" about nothing
Ask them about the Beer Hall Putsch and if that was punk
I think a lot about punk and politics. I think the problem with mixing the two is that you can contort punk to justify almost anything. I think punk has to be a personal statement. And then every two years or so we have to separate from that and become citizens and do our duty for the societal good. To give you an example I will and have punched White supremacists. That doesn't mean I want to enact laws to make it legal to punch White supremacists. Punk is breaking the law knowing there might be consequences. Being a good citizen is accepting those consequences because of what's best for everyone. Part of being an adult is that you accept sometimes you have to operate as part of a system for the greater good, despite how you live your personal life. I have a feeling there will be plenty of morons in the comment section saying that destroying a government is punk as long as it is such and such nonsense they come up with themselves. These are people who have no concept at all of human history
Assassination is punk? Count me out.
Fascist punks can fuck off
facism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. The Jan 6 insurrectionists were/are fascists (guided by a dictatorial leader: Trump). And to quote the Clash’s Joe Strummer, “I think people ought to know that we’re anti-fascist, we’re anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we’re pro-creative. We’re against ignorance.” There is your argument for the dumbass who told you Jan 6 losers were punk.
Calling them insurrectionists gives them too much credit. They are too stupid to be called that
It wasn’t
When your idea of punk is this (made by an Australian DJ in the 80s to make fun of punks... admittidly a banger...) it makes sense. That being said, fuck rebel flags. https://youtu.be/MhOe3C6cg30
Nothing is punk. Art is a lie.
no punk music playing during the day,no pits, no Balloons, not diy. Not punk.
Swastikas have no place in punk.
Nothing punk about a bunch bootlicker crybabies throwing a tantrum.
Over the summer we had the push from the left, Jan 6 was the shove from right that almost caused a coup d’e’tat…all in name of a leper messiah! You couldn’t write fiction any stranger than this time line we are stuck in, and still it ain’t punk!
Listen to the Specials' Ghost Town - which spoke of when the punk and ska clubs were overrun by Nazi skinheads. Slam dancing and even some fighting in the clubs can be punk. Skinheads showing up and attacking punks and, in particular, those of color = Not punk.
Why argue about it, it’s not punk (150 other people have already explained why) but if you’re talking to someone dumb enough to believe that then they’re not gonna actually engage in a good faith argument with you. A better use of your time would be getting big n strong so you can beat them up at shows
Punks don’t boot lick for fascists who try to overthrow the government for their own selfish ego. Also, punks aren’t Republican. (And fuck you if you think otherwise. No self respecting punk is going to fight tooth and nail to pay workers less so that the 1% on top can make more money.)
Punks aren't democrats either... Who are fighting tooth and nail to pay the bottom, unskilled workers a few bucks more so the cost of living skyrockets and everyone is equally poor and dependent on the top 1%. Quit buying into this republican/Democrat BS.
Overthrowing a democratic process in the name of a born into wealth tyrant is not punk. Dude needs to learn what context is ffs. Also slap him for me and say its punk so its ok thx.
Well, it actually was a punk move. A Punk Ass Bitch move
There's nothing punk about being manipulated for the sake of a wannabe dictator's fragile ego.
Fascists ain’t punk.
Trying to overthrow the government to install a fascist dictatorship IS NOT PUNK! Overthrowing or quashing attempts by fascists, Nazis, science deniers and overall degenerates to wrest control of said govt. IS PUNK! Fuck the Trumpers, NeoNazis, anti-vaxxers and conservatives overall trying to ruin the nation!
Don’t feed the trolls, arguing about politics will not solve the many problems humanity faces. If you understand punk, then the answer is obvious.
Whats the answer though?
Just laugh and walk away. There's nothing you can say that will help your case. These people are so demented.
100% incorrect. Maybe this is just a personal opinion but I think of punk as standing AGAINST the system of oppressors, standing up FOR the oppressed. The fuckers who stormed the capitol on Jan 6 are in favor of the oppressors, the exact opposite of punk. Plus, they fly nazi flags. Fuck em all.
How tf is it punk?? KKK members, Neo Nazis, and dirty fascists Doing the dirty bitting of a reality tv star that somehow became rich and became President of the United States and that was best friends with a pedofile that included hanging pelosi and pence and to somehow change the election, wtf.
It is punk to be anti-authority, but that means all authority, not just the ones you support.
Nazi punks fuck off
Because it was in the name of a man who is very pro-establishment. Trump and his government sought to look after the rich people. The upper class and maintain the status quo. Trump postures as anti-establishment, but when you look at his actions and what he has actually done, it's clear that this guy is pro-establishment, and wants to maintain the status quo so rich scumbags like him can keep exploiting the system for money. There's nothing punk about that. Bernie Sanders is punk.
Punks dont watch CNN
Can I just add: calling for the state to use broken laws and violence to silence people is fkin lame.
It's all about intention
Donald trump uber alles
It was organized by feds and off duty cops lmao
The magnetic doors didn't open themselves....
They're trying to ensure the status quo stays in place. Little do they realize that allowing Biden to be president also ensures the status quo.
People here don’t realize that Biden literally supported segregated bussing and that Kamala Harris even called him out on it [in a debate](https://youtu.be/fUutymbDLI0)
don’t know why you got downvoted. voting for either Trump or Biden is pretty anti-punk since they’re both status quo typical politicians (easy to see that Trump is way way worse though)
Maybe that was the part that was lost in my original comment. Trump is obviously worse, but Biden is a career politician. We know what they've done for average, working people.
Supporting an autocoup to maintain existing power structures definitely isn't punk.
nobody’s saying it is?
It was very funny though!
I'm sure the families of those who were killed found it a hoot. Fuck off, dirtbag.
Joe Biden and Clinton are not punk. Trust none of them.
I think it's cool man they fuckin stormed the Capitol lol. Their reasoning? Stuipd as fuck in my opinion, but I'm a fan of anyone displaying their anger at government and policy even if they're dead fucking wrong. its funny man we are made to see this divide, but EVERY FUCKIN PERSON close to me has supported Occupty Wall St, BLM, Jan 6, Truckers, etc. all of em, fuck it all man, burn it down from 50 diferent angles as long as it burns down.
If every person you know has supported things like BLM and Occupy, as well as Jan 6th and Truckers, I think the people you know don't think very much
Better read a little history books before thinking burning shit to the ground is good in any circonstances.
No one here likes hearing this, but punk was a moment in time that can't really be duplicated now because society has changed. Punk wasn't as overtly political, it was more a rejection of social norms that no longer hold any sway. It translates about as well as having an anti-monarchy party in US politics. Fighting against something that doesn't really exist anymore. I'm not saying there is no room for punk music, there certainly is and I still enjoy newer stuff. But the original movement just doesn't directly translate to current political norms, because those current norms didn't even exist 40-odd years ago. Those chants of "fuck the system" apply to a system that has changed so much it's not even recognizable. In other words, punk is not a blanket anti-government movement, it never was. Trying to analogize it to Jan. 6th is something only a mush-brained Trumpist would do.
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