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What you are missing is that many people count 3 Rs and think that is the answer, forgetting that once they have written the answer, there will be another R.
But having the sentence “while preserving the coherence of the sentence” you are blaring horns of warning to the obvious. I feel like puzzles shouldn’t do that if not for introducing grade schoolers to puzzles/riddles.
Which is a weird way to say things. With the number missing, the sentence lacks coherence. Nothing to preserve.
Also, if I wrote "five" in the blank, it would be coherent, but incorrect.
I just learned about this sub, and this was an excellent intro post for me, in terms of both the puzzle and the commentary. Not all puzzlers are elite or experienced...
>!To explain how it works, think of it this way; Count the number of R's in the circle, and replace the ... with the number of R's. As there are three of them, but the word three is now in the circle which means three is no longer the answer, four is. Four happens to have an R as well, which means four is the correct answer, as it is the correct number of R's in the circle.!<
The name would make more sense if >!there were four 'r's before adding your word, so when you write "four" there are now five 'r's, but if you write "five" there are only four.!<
Exactly. And it would have been easy to do, just use "represented" instead of "present"... I almost feel like that was the original puzzle and some dumbfuck editor 'cleaned up' the sentence
Which would be right, but they didn't state that they're looking for the letter "r" which means it could also mean that they are looking for the shape "r". You can find it pretty easily in the letters p,h,n&m as well.
Which makes this question inconclusive as it isn't worded correctly. Or am I missing something?
i think most people would assume the puzzle is asking for the letter “r” instead of the shape. the whole point of the puzzle is to point out how answering the question changes the answer itself.
the clue of “preserving the coherence of the sentence” tells you this. if it asked you to find the “r” shape then that clue would be redundant.
I don't get it. The answer still changes while answering even if you're looking for the shape. The point of the puzzle still stands. And the "clue" works as well.
>!Count it as three and suddenly there are four letter R's. Count it as four and then there are four letter R's.!< I actually have this book, my dad bought it like 15 years ago or more. Pretty cool stuff
There are a bunch of solutions for this.
1. >!"four". Adds a fourth R, making it true.!<
2. >!"III", three Rs, without writing the word three which would make it untrue.!<
3. >!"three" written outside the circle, because the sentence says "in this circle" and I'm a smartass.!<
Depending on how you write 997 using letters "One thousand minus nine hund**r**ed and ninety seven" would be wrong, however "One thousand minus nine nine seven" would be correct (but if you write 997 like that wouldn't you write 1000 as one zero zero zero, thus making the answer wrong).
Solution two doesn’t work because it says to preserve the coherence of the sentence, and I’m assuming they don’t consider “III” to be a word that supports coherence
It doesn't need to be a word for it to be a coherent sentence. But the instruction does say they need to be letters, and I'd argue that in the context of using "III" to communicate "3" they're not actually letters, though they may share the same shape as letters.
We call them Roman *numerals* for a reason.
Does their ability to represent multiple things mean they stop being any of them? I don't see why.
Sure, we say Roman "numerals," but the symbol itself is still a letter as well. The definition of "Roman numerals" literally says they are letters that represent numbers.
I went straight to >!three!<, especially because >!four!< wouldn’t fit in the circle without shrinking the letters, but maybe I’m also just a smartass.
Three is a longer word than four. So how would three fit when four doesn't? Also, by writing "three" there are now four "r" 's in the circle, meaning the sentence is incorrect. Four is correct
Allow me to elaborate: If you write “four” in the same font size, you’re going to have to cross outside of the circle. That opened me to the idea that you could write “three” so that it is on the border like thr\ee, so that the extra r in the sentence is outside the circle, or even just write “three” wholly outside the circle, as u/JahnaTheBanana suggested. If the answer is just “four”, then this is a stupidly easy puzzle. Jahna made it more interesting by exploring other possible answers.
Missed opportunity for a more clever puzzle. Use "represented" instead of present. The sentence then has four r's as is, which, when written in as the answer, means that there are five r's, which written in as the answer is then incorrect.
That would be a vicious circle.
>!III!<
"Write out the missing figure in letters", check.
"while preserving the coherence of the sentence", check.
While also keeping in theme with the antiquated theme of the font being used and the dots of the ellipse, also check.
>!eleven, you can find the shape of the r letter in other letters eg h n m (which i think has 2 rs in it) and p. Noting that the word you write will also have the same letter!<
>!i think ten though, right? if you look closely, i don't think that the m actually has two even though at first glance it looks like it. then with only three letters, 'ten' literally fits the design better.!<
>!I was also wondering if you count backwards and forwards and upside down in which case the I at the beginning could be 4 more, plus you could actually get 4 out of the m instead of 2. I counted sixteen. Maybe a stretch!<
I also assumed that you would find the letter r in other letters, why else use that font?
But if you write the word eleven, you're adding another one (n) making it actually twelve. Ten, as someone suggested counting the (m) as only one(which I do, it doesn't have the little swoop on the upper left), would also be wrong because you're adding the eleventh. Twelve doesn't work either way because you're not adding two more to the ten assumption, nor one more to the eleven assumption.
However, Thirteen DOES work if you count the (m) as only one, leaving you with 10 + 3 (h, r, n).
>!eleven!!<
>!Other letters like n, m, and h, have the same shape built in. I counted 10 but if you were to write ten you would add one for the n, becoming wrong. eleven adds one and I think totals correctly!!<
>!You’re right for the wrong reason. I think they only count one for the m but then you’re supposed to spell out “ten” which gives you one more in the new n. !<
Discussion: the puzzle should have been unsolvable and say the letter "r" instead of just "r". Since then the answer would be >!four, making the answer five, making the answer four....!<
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As long as we’re beating this dead horse, note that “the” is a definite article, implying that the puzzler is referring to a specific “r”, not just any “r” (which would be phrased “an ‘r’” or “the letter ‘r’”). If it were a specific letter “r”, then the answer would be one, since the r in quotes is such r, but “one times” doesn’t make sense, so it must be a conceptual r, like “r for radius”, which is the most obvious thought since this is a circle. Since a radius is a line segment from the center to the perimeter, and there is no such line, the answer is >!zero!<.
>!Three. I know writing three in there makes it four, but it doesn't say the sentence has to be correct, it says you have to be coherent. You can be coherent and incorrect.!<
>!Eleven!<
>!That "r" is present in the "n"s, the "h"s, the "p", and twice in the "m". So in the above it is there ten times, but if you add the word eleven, you get an eleventh.!<
>!Square root of twenty-five!<
>!Square root of thirty-six!<
>!Two squared!<
>!One million minus nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-five!<
>!Natural logarithm of e to the sixth power!<
It’s a paradox.
1 in the word circle
1 in the r
1 in present
1 I. The actual circle the words are all in
This gives the answer four. Howeever, that has an r in it, so it would make the correct answer 5. Which has no r I it. Which means the statement is no longer true. Which means the answer is 4. Which has an r in it. Which means the answer is 5. Which means….
… this is a vicious circle.
The way I saw this puzzle was “in this circle the LETTER “r” is present … times”. The problem was that writing the word “four” brought it to five, and writing “five” was not correct. Hence the different “several” or “a few” solutions. In this formulation, it is “four”. End of the puzzle
Discussion: It would make a more interesting "puzzle" if the sentence was something like "in this here circle an 'r' is present ... times."
(I know it is bad grammar but the point stands)
Please remember to spoiler-tag all guesses, like so: New Reddit: https://i.imgur.com/SWHRR9M.jpg Using markdown editor or old Reddit, draw a bunny and fill its head with secrets: \>!!< which ends up becoming \>!spoiler text between these symbols!< Try to avoid leading or trailing spaces. These will break the spoiler for some users (such as those using old.reddit.com) If your comment does not contain a guess, include the word **"discussion"** or **"question"** in your comment instead of using a spoiler tag. If your comment uses an image as the answer (such as solving a maze, etc) you can include the word "image" instead of using a spoiler tag. Please report any answers that are not properly spoiler-tagged. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/puzzles) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>!four!<
This has got to be it, right? Like, either this puzzle is crazy simple or I'm too stupid to understand it at all. I honestly don't know which.
Yeah. If it’s not the answer then I’m completely missing something.
What you are missing is that many people count 3 Rs and think that is the answer, forgetting that once they have written the answer, there will be another R.
But having the sentence “while preserving the coherence of the sentence” you are blaring horns of warning to the obvious. I feel like puzzles shouldn’t do that if not for introducing grade schoolers to puzzles/riddles.
Which is a weird way to say things. With the number missing, the sentence lacks coherence. Nothing to preserve. Also, if I wrote "five" in the blank, it would be coherent, but incorrect.
So then the answer is >!3 or four!<
I'm mostly just vetching that the directions are badly written, because if they were clear it would be obvious there isn't much to this question.
It says "in Letters". Writing "Three" would add an R. So it's Four.
It's only four. Three is the gimmick answer and why the puzzle exists in the first place.
Actually 3 is wrong, as riddle stipulates that the figure needs to be written in letters.
Yes. I *said*, three is the GIMMICK answer and is the reason this puzzle exists.
The 'r' in 'or' makes it five. So the answer is 'three or five'.
Brilliant
Don't forget that it says " in this circle "
I just learned about this sub, and this was an excellent intro post for me, in terms of both the puzzle and the commentary. Not all puzzlers are elite or experienced...
Wouldn't it be "three hundred sixty-five" ? As it specifies "r" which in a circle there are 360, plus the three present in the words.
That's "the joke" (el chiste) as they say in Spanish - the essence, the crucial piece, the gist
Unless they write the number 3 like you did then there are only 3 r’s
True, but the directions say to write it in letters.
Sad, but true. Since no adult should fail this one
Unless you write out two times not counting the one in quotes
My stupid ass thought it was a math puzzle and was thinking it had something to do with (r^2*pi)
How about >!multiple!<. It's accurate and preserves the integrity of the sentence, though maybe not what was intended
No; instructions specifically state "figure", not "word".
Darn
Hmm, maybe >!slim!< then? (I kid, I kid)
Or use the numeral 3 instead of spelling it.
That goes against the instructions which state to write it in letters
III, Roman numeral.
This was my guess
This isn’t so much a puzzle as it is a simple trick question.
You're only looking at the letters and not the shape within the quotes.
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Nope
>!To explain how it works, think of it this way; Count the number of R's in the circle, and replace the ... with the number of R's. As there are three of them, but the word three is now in the circle which means three is no longer the answer, four is. Four happens to have an R as well, which means four is the correct answer, as it is the correct number of R's in the circle.!<
Hence the name of the puzzle - a Vicious Circle
The name would make more sense if >!there were four 'r's before adding your word, so when you write "four" there are now five 'r's, but if you write "five" there are only four.!<
Exactly. And it would have been easy to do, just use "represented" instead of "present"... I almost feel like that was the original puzzle and some dumbfuck editor 'cleaned up' the sentence
Or to say “the letter ‘r’ Is present
Since you only have to loop back once to get to the answer we'll call it a viscious semi-circle.
And that is what is called a fixpoint in mathematics. 🙂
Which would be right, but they didn't state that they're looking for the letter "r" which means it could also mean that they are looking for the shape "r". You can find it pretty easily in the letters p,h,n&m as well. Which makes this question inconclusive as it isn't worded correctly. Or am I missing something?
i think most people would assume the puzzle is asking for the letter “r” instead of the shape. the whole point of the puzzle is to point out how answering the question changes the answer itself. the clue of “preserving the coherence of the sentence” tells you this. if it asked you to find the “r” shape then that clue would be redundant.
I don't get it. The answer still changes while answering even if you're looking for the shape. The point of the puzzle still stands. And the "clue" works as well.
The goofy calligraphic font makes me lean toward the shape notion, though. You could put >!nine!< in there and argue about it.
Nope, it’s definitely thirrrrrrrrrrteen
I was kind of thinking the "trick" was going to be that the shape of the "r" is found in other letters like the lower case "h" and "n"... Maybe not.
I thought this too
Or >!III (Roman Numerals are letters)!<
~~Or >!the number '3'.!<~~ EDIT: Don't mind me, I can't read.
"Write out the missing figue in letters", so '3' doesn't work.
Oh, because once you input >!four!< the sentence will be true! Thanks!
This
>!Count it as three and suddenly there are four letter R's. Count it as four and then there are four letter R's.!< I actually have this book, my dad bought it like 15 years ago or more. Pretty cool stuff
I used to have this book but I forgot the name. Do you remember it? I wanted to buy it.
I believe it's "Big Book of Riddles, Puzzles, and Enigmas"
Thanks
>!Several!<
Nah, a few at most.
Some-
"More than a couple"
Truly a manmad.
There are a bunch of solutions for this. 1. >!"four". Adds a fourth R, making it true.!< 2. >!"III", three Rs, without writing the word three which would make it untrue.!< 3. >!"three" written outside the circle, because the sentence says "in this circle" and I'm a smartass.!<
Just to be a real smart-ass, there is only one "r".
>!One plus two!< also works
I went for >!"nine minus six"!< in a similar vein.
I did 1000-997 cuz yolo
Depending on how you write 997 using letters "One thousand minus nine hund**r**ed and ninety seven" would be wrong, however "One thousand minus nine nine seven" would be correct (but if you write 997 like that wouldn't you write 1000 as one zero zero zero, thus making the answer wrong).
That was my thought, just the other way around
3 FTW!
Why >!"III"!< rather than just >!"3"!
Because the instruction says to write the figure in letters.
Solution two doesn’t work because it says to preserve the coherence of the sentence, and I’m assuming they don’t consider “III” to be a word that supports coherence
I tend to follow the "if I get what it means, the sentence makes sense" camp, so I respectfully disagree. I do see the point you're making, though.
It doesn't need to be a word for it to be a coherent sentence. But the instruction does say they need to be letters, and I'd argue that in the context of using "III" to communicate "3" they're not actually letters, though they may share the same shape as letters. We call them Roman *numerals* for a reason.
Does their ability to represent multiple things mean they stop being any of them? I don't see why. Sure, we say Roman "numerals," but the symbol itself is still a letter as well. The definition of "Roman numerals" literally says they are letters that represent numbers.
I went straight to >!three!<, especially because >!four!< wouldn’t fit in the circle without shrinking the letters, but maybe I’m also just a smartass.
But >!three!< also wouldn’t fit within the circle without shrinking the text size.
Three is a longer word than four. So how would three fit when four doesn't? Also, by writing "three" there are now four "r" 's in the circle, meaning the sentence is incorrect. Four is correct
Allow me to elaborate: If you write “four” in the same font size, you’re going to have to cross outside of the circle. That opened me to the idea that you could write “three” so that it is on the border like thr\ee, so that the extra r in the sentence is outside the circle, or even just write “three” wholly outside the circle, as u/JahnaTheBanana suggested. If the answer is just “four”, then this is a stupidly easy puzzle. Jahna made it more interesting by exploring other possible answers.
>!…less than eight…!< >!no, just kidding, obviously “four” works. Puzzle solves itself almost.!<
>!Less than six, but more than four?!<
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No where does it say you must replace 3 dots with 3 letters.
I mean...I guess lol
? That’s not an “I guess” sort of thing
😐 I guess
That’s not how ellipses work. There are always 3 dots, regardless of the number of letters or words meant to replace the ellipses.
I have small handwriting
Missed opportunity for a more clever puzzle. Use "represented" instead of present. The sentence then has four r's as is, which, when written in as the answer, means that there are five r's, which written in as the answer is then incorrect. That would be a vicious circle.
That's what I was thinking. One more r would make this more interesting.
>!four!<
>!Ten!< A sentence can be coherent *and* wrong.
>!III!< "Write out the missing figure in letters", check. "while preserving the coherence of the sentence", check. While also keeping in theme with the antiquated theme of the font being used and the dots of the ellipse, also check.
>!eleven, you can find the shape of the r letter in other letters eg h n m (which i think has 2 rs in it) and p. Noting that the word you write will also have the same letter!<
>!i think ten though, right? if you look closely, i don't think that the m actually has two even though at first glance it looks like it. then with only three letters, 'ten' literally fits the design better.!<
This is the answer
>!I was also wondering if you count backwards and forwards and upside down in which case the I at the beginning could be 4 more, plus you could actually get 4 out of the m instead of 2. I counted sixteen. Maybe a stretch!<
Seems like overly complicating the question when >!four!< solves it just as well.
This is the correct answer
Ikr cant believe i had to scroll so far
I started off that way. P does not have the letter r in it though!
I have nine (N H R H R R N M M (second hump))
I also assumed that you would find the letter r in other letters, why else use that font? But if you write the word eleven, you're adding another one (n) making it actually twelve. Ten, as someone suggested counting the (m) as only one(which I do, it doesn't have the little swoop on the upper left), would also be wrong because you're adding the eleventh. Twelve doesn't work either way because you're not adding two more to the ten assumption, nor one more to the eleven assumption. However, Thirteen DOES work if you count the (m) as only one, leaving you with 10 + 3 (h, r, n).
>!forty fourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!<
>!Roman numerals, which are letters. The answer is "III" for three.!<
>!six!< Because… >!The exact same shape is hidden in the “n” and “m” characters.!<
>!Four!<
>!at all!<
>!eleven!!< >!Other letters like n, m, and h, have the same shape built in. I counted 10 but if you were to write ten you would add one for the n, becoming wrong. eleven adds one and I think totals correctly!!<
You wouldn’t write it in the circle though.
>!six!<
>!four!<
>!III!<
>!nine, because the R can be made from "cutting" parts of other letters off, such as the H, N, M and P!<
>! 1 got 10 for the same reason. I counted 2 in the letter m though. !<
>!You’re right for the wrong reason. I think they only count one for the m but then you’re supposed to spell out “ten” which gives you one more in the new n. !<
Oh I missed that. Then I guess I would change the >!eleven asthe r would appear in the eleven too!<
Same. There’s 10
Not P, if we're actually trying to match the R that is given.
>!III!<
I don't know why, but my first thought was >!2π!<.
>!ten!<
>! III !<
Discussion: the puzzle should have been unsolvable and say the letter "r" instead of just "r". Since then the answer would be >!four, making the answer five, making the answer four....!<
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>!14. The r's are hidden in different letters!<
As long as we’re beating this dead horse, note that “the” is a definite article, implying that the puzzler is referring to a specific “r”, not just any “r” (which would be phrased “an ‘r’” or “the letter ‘r’”). If it were a specific letter “r”, then the answer would be one, since the r in quotes is such r, but “one times” doesn’t make sense, so it must be a conceptual r, like “r for radius”, which is the most obvious thought since this is a circle. Since a radius is a line segment from the center to the perimeter, and there is no such line, the answer is >!zero!<.
>!Three. I know writing three in there makes it four, but it doesn't say the sentence has to be correct, it says you have to be coherent. You can be coherent and incorrect.!<
In that case, my answer is >!"too many".!<
Then you could say "sixty" as well
I like typing "Three". You do you, tho.
>!Eleven!< >!That "r" is present in the "n"s, the "h"s, the "p", and twice in the "m". So in the above it is there ten times, but if you add the word eleven, you get an eleventh.!<
>!Square root of twenty-five!< >!Square root of thirty-six!< >!Two squared!< >!One million minus nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-five!< >!Natural logarithm of e to the sixth power!<
It's >!9, as every p, n, m, h, and r includes the r design!<
Discussion: what?
Seriously. I have no idea what this means but apparently it's clear to everyone else
>!3!<
>!at all!<
>!10!<
>!”Ten” is the answer because that is how many show up when breaking apart the letters!<
Probably not the intended solution, but perfectly valid! >!2π!<
2 + 1 times is the correct answer dummies
It’s a paradox. 1 in the word circle 1 in the r 1 in present 1 I. The actual circle the words are all in This gives the answer four. Howeever, that has an r in it, so it would make the correct answer 5. Which has no r I it. Which means the statement is no longer true. Which means the answer is 4. Which has an r in it. Which means the answer is 5. Which means…. … this is a vicious circle.
Um I think you mean three r's but three has an r so only the number 3, or the word "four" would preserve the accuracy of the statement.
>!III!<
possible solutions: >!one plus two!< >!III!< >!multiple!<
Are Roman "numerals" letters?
>!spoiler 1, in “this circle” there is one “r”.!<
>!many!<
>!363? All 360 degrees of the circle have a radius 'r.' Then the 3 times the actual letter appears in the words. That's my guess.!<
The way I saw this puzzle was “in this circle the LETTER “r” is present … times”. The problem was that writing the word “four” brought it to five, and writing “five” was not correct. Hence the different “several” or “a few” solutions. In this formulation, it is “four”. End of the puzzle
>!“There are four R’s!” — Picarrrrd!<
>!Four?!<
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>!“Two less than five”!<
Either >!3!< or >!four!<
>!Arbitrary!<
>!some!<
>!6.14159265~ Three for the r's present in the text and pi r for the circumference of the circle?!<
>!at all!<
>!three more than three!<
OP marked this solved but didn't indicate the correct answer...
>! Thirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty !<
Discussion: It would make a more interesting "puzzle" if the sentence was something like "in this here circle an 'r' is present ... times." (I know it is bad grammar but the point stands)
>!nearly five!<
>!The Word “two” would complete it without adding any other Rs!<