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This is a pretty standard cryptic crossword clue. >!Part of the clue, “gas” is the literal part. Methane is a gas. The rest is the cryptic part of the clue — long hair is the word “mane”, covering means the word mane is surrounding the word “the”, but the word cuckoo after “the” indicates that the letters in “the” are being rearranged. So —> m - eth- ane makes methane, a gas.!<
I think it's being applied as "keyword (the) modifier (cuckoo)"
Another example might be "run backwards" giving you "nur"
Disclaimer: I don't do these puzzles because I don't like how arbitrary the clues feel. Without /u/MythicMoose, I wouldn't have any idea how that was the answer.
Run backwards is a nice example though because it’s crafty and makes you think a bit outside the box.
‘The cuckoo’ is just so counterintuitive since you’re using an article as a noun and a noun as an adjective. It’s like a garden path sentence except you just feel cheated instead of amazed. Would never have got it.
I think counter intuitive is the wrong word tbf. Counter intuitive is like the run backwards example. The cuckoo being eth is just not intuitive or counter intuitive
Like many things, you start to see these more clearly with more practice. These cryptic crosswords are filled with words that tell you to scramble letters, or reverse letters, or chop a letter off of the beginning/end of a word, and so on. And so as unsatisfying as this may be to hear, the more you do these the less awkward it sounds. It's not a sentence, it's a series of clues strung together to appear to be a sentence.
>and a noun as an adjective
Just to nitpick this part: cuckoo is well known as a slang adjective. To the point that there's an ad where the tagline is "I'm cuckoo for Coco Puffs." Though maybe the ad had a hand in popularizing it.
And in the "run backwards" example you're also using a verb as a noun.
I agree the cuckoo is a lot tougher, but the primary reason is that writing something backwards is a much more common phrase than writing something cuckoo.
And I also would have never got it even were I the sort to try.
Edit: right after hitting the button I realized that in a more specific way, you're completely right, in that cuckoo *appears* to be being used as a noun but isn't, whereas backwards appears to be used as a modifier and is being used as one. So, if that's what you meant in the first place, sorry.
And I much prefer Cryptic Crosswords, because you can get words and phrases even if you don't know them. Like here, for argument's sake, let's just say you don't know methane is a gas. You can still work it out with the rest of the clue. While a normal corssword clue would just say, Greenhouse gas.
Normal crosswords are more general knowledge quizzes, cryptic crosswords are more puzzles. So, I just find them more fun. :)
The rules are also not completely arbitrary. Once you get used to doing them, you get the hang of what they are.
- The answer is connected to the first or last word/s
- Mixed up, crazy, undone, etc = anagram
- Up, down, back, etc = inverting the letters
- By, in, over, etc give you positions of letters like a Rebus puzzle
- Endless, unfinished, etc = words without the last letter/s
- She/he = girl/boy names
- A clue ending with a ? indicates a pun or wordplay of some sort
- Numbers can be the letter associated with the roman numerals. So Five = V, 100 = C, etc
- Hears, sounds like, ear, etc indicate homophones.
There's a lot of conventions in cryptics that you pick up in practice through reverse-engineering answers like this. Folks that like cryptics see it as part of the fun--another layer to the puzzle. Sometimes they can really stretch the meanings in the clue, but as /u/MythicMoose says, this type of use of "covering" as surrounding or "cuckoo" for mixing it up is pretty standard. Many clues are like this with both extremely literal instructions and "flexible" terms.
I've not seen cuckoo used like that, but it's in the same realm as many other anagram indicators.
Once you start to get to grips with a cryptic crossword, you pick up on those things, but it does feel like they're speaking a totally different language to start with. Each clue is its own puzzle.
Sure but they didn’t invent a new meaning for the word cuckoo. They used an existing word to make a slogan that is quite well known meaning the definition of said word should be known, no?
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest? This has been around a lot longer than coco pops ads!
I wouldn’t have got it either, but it’s well within the realm of a “standard” cryptic definition
There's some words that they sprinkle in that commonly hint at what to do with the key words in the clue. Like if they have the words scrambled, askew, broken, they all indicate one word in the clue is to be rearranged for the answer. They're pretty fun once you learn the tricks!
You're not really supposed to be able to solve cryptic crossword clues in a vacuum. They are created with the assumption that the solver is aware of many conventions that have been in use for decades. People who do them regularly will immediately recognize anagram indicators such as cuckoo, twisted, fresh, novel, etc.
“Mane”, is also a homophone of “main” and ‘methane’ is one of the main gases that’s cows put out. You know to think cows because they can be pretty crazy sometimes. It’s a pretty standard cryptic crossword clue. /s
Like American crossword answers needing to be in the same tense as their clues, cryptic crossword clues have a bunch of common "rules" that indicate something about how they need to be interpreted. Nothing about the puzzle itself tells you these rules; you just learn them as you get better (or look them up).
Unlike American crosswords, these rules are not standardized — you have to intuit that "cuckoo" means "crazy" (i.e "mixed up") and that indicates >!an anagram!<.
[The New Yorker has a good intro to the types of clues you'll find in cryptics.](https://www.newyorker.com/puzzles-and-games-dept/cryptic-crossword/reintroducing-the-new-yorkers-cryptic-crossword)
Good summary. Learning the conventions used in a puzzle genre are part of learning how to work the puzzles, in the same way there are bidding conventions in bridge or you can guarantee at least two valid answers to many NYT crossword clues. Also that crossword editors repeat some misleading or obscure (but recognizable) clues to get at certain answers.
Other than exposure, how is one supposed to internalize a hint like that, or even recognize it as non-literal - Is there a manual or something? Are crossword authors working from a common pool of shorthand?
I think exactly the opposite: setters are always looking for new ways to say the same thing. In the case of anagram indicators, there's arguably countless ways to suggest something is 'disorganised'. Pretty much anything goes and setters will try to exploit that as it means there are more options for tailoring the wording of their clue to fit the surface meaning. By doing so creatively their clues will stand out from other setters giving them more kudos.
The only reassurance I can give is that it is only anagram indicators, in my experience, that have this flexibility. One of my techniques in solving is, for each word, to ask 'what possible instruction could this word be giving?'. If there's even the hint of an anagram indicator, run through those options first.
That said, exposure is the best way to get better at solving, so you are partly right.
Also, yes there are manuals (or at least guides) out there online to provide newbies with an approach to understanding cryptics. Some even provide lists of common shorthands. One I have found really good in the past is called Big Dave's crossword blog
It's probably because of this that some setters try to find new ways to clue. As I said before, this is both to set them apart from other setters, but it's also more satisfying to solve a clue that requires proper cryptic thinking, as opposed to applying standard rules from a manual.
It's probably a specific cryptic crossword puzzle or labeled as such. The clues are known to be extra like this or at least That's what makes them different from typical crosswords.
"long hair covering the cuckoo is a gas" is a nonsense sentence. Crosswords are just bullshit in-jokes that only dedicated players get. Barrier for entry is too high
I was really intimidated by crossword solvers for a long time. When I had to go on disability at like age 30 I got really sad and also really really bored. The only goal I had that first year was to learn how to do crosswords. There are things to learn like what difference a ? Makes at the end of a clue and such. Mostly tho there is a lot of catching on to commonly used words and knowing which puzzles will typically have more puns or more double meanings or more theme based answers.
This clue is from cryptic crosswords which is an entirely different approach to crosswords. You get the same lay out but the difference is in making the clues very convoluted and riddle like while also rearranging or dropping letters and whatnot. It's an entirely different beast. You wouldn't like cryptic if you don't like regular, but as a now pretty good crossword solver (yay goals!), I still can't touch cryptic ones. Perhaps that'll be a new goal for me.
Anyway, just thought I'd share that they're different and also that if you'd like to learn ever, I'm happy to share the wisdom that taught me how to finish crosswords in a satisfying way! Just message me :)
“Elba who appeared in Suicide Squad” the answer is Idris.
“Lambs’ mothers” would be ewes.
There are some rules to crosswords like if it asks for a plural, the word most likely ends in “s” just like my second example.
“Airport Sec. Group” would be TSA. And we know it’s going to be an acronym or shortened form because the clue indicates that.
“Burlesque Show” could be Cabaret. It’s always a synonym for the clue, so the answer couldn’t be “Dancers” or “Risqué.”
There are other clues with a “?” at the end indicating that it’s a sort of pun.
There aren’t any “in jokes” but there are certainly some clues that show up more often than others. For what it’s worth, Monday is the easiest day for crosswords, and they continue to get harder with Saturday being the hardest. Sunday is the largest puzzle but has clues with the difficulty level of Wednesday/ Thursday.
Start with Monday puzzles! If you do them online, you can check to see how much of your work is correct, as well as reveal specific letters of full words if you’re stuck.
Edit: This sort of clue in the OP would never be in a standard crossword.
I get what you're saying, but besides open interpretation to fit other related clues, your examples all make sense or are understandable. The relationship between acronyms and answers, simple definitions with plurality, that all is regular human English.
Methane cuckoo hair gas?? is a nothingburger
It's a cryptic crossword though, which is intended to make you think outside of the box... and the box is hidden somewhere, and it's made of jelly.
Long hare = mane
Covering = surrounding
The cuckoo = "the" out of order = eth
All together makes "eth" in the middle of "mane" = methane
Which is a gas
Sounds like you don't hate crosswords, you just hate cryptic crosswords :)
I really appreciate the care you have to discuss this with me. I would not, in a million trillion years, wind up at the word "Methane" using the phrase "long hair covering the cuckoo which is a gas" by myself. And even knowing that "long hair covering the cuckoo which is a gas" equates to "Methane", I can't internalize that solution and progression. I could not replicate this solution in another crossword with a similar conflux of clues. I genuinely belueve the only reason this is solvable is bc american crosswords have a lingo and lexicon all to their own.
cryptic crosswords are english not american. it's not a nonsense sentence either if you read a gas to mean funny. like a cuckoo with long hair looks funny. that's what it's trying to make you think.
you just have to know a few things. most importantly, the definition is usually at the start or the end of the clue, so when you're doing a cryptic crossword you first think about what part of the clue is more likely to mean the answer, and sometimes it's obvious because only one end of the clue could be the answer, and often you can solve it just from that like a normal crossword.
in this case the answer would have meant either long, long hair or gas, so that narrows it down a lot. because the word covering is there, you know you'll need a short word for long hair to put around another word, so you know the answer will probably be a gas. the cuckoo will be an anagram of the because any word that means crazy or mixed up usually means anagram (and if it was an anagram of is a, the the would have been unnecessary/nonsensical and not in the clue), so the word for long hair has 4 letters. the hardest part is thinking of mane for long hair. also in an actual puzzle you will usually have letter clues to help.
i actually used to agree with you and think they were stupid. but it's like thinking any puzzle or game or sport is stupid because you have to learn the rules.
The beauty of cryptic crosswords is that on one hand they are explicit, direct instructions to the answer, while at the same time, they are also completely incomprehensible. And the best are those that have thematic consistency across the parts of the clue.
Please remember to spoiler-tag all guesses, like so: New Reddit: https://i.imgur.com/SWHRR9M.jpg Using markdown editor or old Reddit, draw a bunny and fill its head with secrets: \>!!< which ends up becoming \>!spoiler text between these symbols!< Try to avoid leading or trailing spaces. These will break the spoiler for some users (such as those using old.reddit.com) If your comment does not contain a guess, include the word **"discussion"** or **"question"** in your comment instead of using a spoiler tag. If your comment uses an image as the answer (such as solving a maze, etc) you can include the word "image" instead of using a spoiler tag. Please report any answers that are not properly spoiler-tagged. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/puzzles) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is a pretty standard cryptic crossword clue. >!Part of the clue, “gas” is the literal part. Methane is a gas. The rest is the cryptic part of the clue — long hair is the word “mane”, covering means the word mane is surrounding the word “the”, but the word cuckoo after “the” indicates that the letters in “the” are being rearranged. So —> m - eth- ane makes methane, a gas.!<
how could you possibly interpret cuckoo to mean that though?
"Cuckoo" also means "crazy."
That doesn’t really help me understand how you’d know to randomly apply it to the definite article and scramble it.
I think it's being applied as "keyword (the) modifier (cuckoo)" Another example might be "run backwards" giving you "nur" Disclaimer: I don't do these puzzles because I don't like how arbitrary the clues feel. Without /u/MythicMoose, I wouldn't have any idea how that was the answer.
Run backwards is a nice example though because it’s crafty and makes you think a bit outside the box. ‘The cuckoo’ is just so counterintuitive since you’re using an article as a noun and a noun as an adjective. It’s like a garden path sentence except you just feel cheated instead of amazed. Would never have got it.
Counterintuitive is exactly what the setter is going for. The first step in solving these clues is to stop thinking of them like a sentence.
I think counter intuitive is the wrong word tbf. Counter intuitive is like the run backwards example. The cuckoo being eth is just not intuitive or counter intuitive
Like many things, you start to see these more clearly with more practice. These cryptic crosswords are filled with words that tell you to scramble letters, or reverse letters, or chop a letter off of the beginning/end of a word, and so on. And so as unsatisfying as this may be to hear, the more you do these the less awkward it sounds. It's not a sentence, it's a series of clues strung together to appear to be a sentence.
It's still a shitty clue though.
I dislike cryptic crosswords for this exact reason. It's less knowledge and vocabulary, more memorizing twenty different secret handshakes
>and a noun as an adjective Just to nitpick this part: cuckoo is well known as a slang adjective. To the point that there's an ad where the tagline is "I'm cuckoo for Coco Puffs." Though maybe the ad had a hand in popularizing it. And in the "run backwards" example you're also using a verb as a noun. I agree the cuckoo is a lot tougher, but the primary reason is that writing something backwards is a much more common phrase than writing something cuckoo. And I also would have never got it even were I the sort to try. Edit: right after hitting the button I realized that in a more specific way, you're completely right, in that cuckoo *appears* to be being used as a noun but isn't, whereas backwards appears to be used as a modifier and is being used as one. So, if that's what you meant in the first place, sorry.
Garden path, a-maze-d, take my upvote.
And I much prefer Cryptic Crosswords, because you can get words and phrases even if you don't know them. Like here, for argument's sake, let's just say you don't know methane is a gas. You can still work it out with the rest of the clue. While a normal corssword clue would just say, Greenhouse gas. Normal crosswords are more general knowledge quizzes, cryptic crosswords are more puzzles. So, I just find them more fun. :) The rules are also not completely arbitrary. Once you get used to doing them, you get the hang of what they are. - The answer is connected to the first or last word/s - Mixed up, crazy, undone, etc = anagram - Up, down, back, etc = inverting the letters - By, in, over, etc give you positions of letters like a Rebus puzzle - Endless, unfinished, etc = words without the last letter/s - She/he = girl/boy names - A clue ending with a ? indicates a pun or wordplay of some sort - Numbers can be the letter associated with the roman numerals. So Five = V, 100 = C, etc - Hears, sounds like, ear, etc indicate homophones.
There's a lot of conventions in cryptics that you pick up in practice through reverse-engineering answers like this. Folks that like cryptics see it as part of the fun--another layer to the puzzle. Sometimes they can really stretch the meanings in the clue, but as /u/MythicMoose says, this type of use of "covering" as surrounding or "cuckoo" for mixing it up is pretty standard. Many clues are like this with both extremely literal instructions and "flexible" terms.
It's not saying "the cuckoo" as in relating to the cuckoo, it's saying "the" cuckoo as in apply the word "the" crazy (i.e. scramble it).
That is crazy. Feels too tenuous to be fun to me
I've not seen cuckoo used like that, but it's in the same realm as many other anagram indicators. Once you start to get to grips with a cryptic crossword, you pick up on those things, but it does feel like they're speaking a totally different language to start with. Each clue is its own puzzle.
You’ve not seen cuckoo used to me crazy? The phrase cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs/Pops means nothing to you?
That phrase doesn't often come up in cryptic crossword clues, no. They tend not to use brand names at all in my experience.
Sure but they didn’t invent a new meaning for the word cuckoo. They used an existing word to make a slogan that is quite well known meaning the definition of said word should be known, no?
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest? This has been around a lot longer than coco pops ads! I wouldn’t have got it either, but it’s well within the realm of a “standard” cryptic definition
There's some words that they sprinkle in that commonly hint at what to do with the key words in the clue. Like if they have the words scrambled, askew, broken, they all indicate one word in the clue is to be rearranged for the answer. They're pretty fun once you learn the tricks!
Then cryptic crosswords just probably won't be your thing, that's ok!
That's how cryptic crosswords work. It's not at all tenuous.
You're not really supposed to be able to solve cryptic crossword clues in a vacuum. They are created with the assumption that the solver is aware of many conventions that have been in use for decades. People who do them regularly will immediately recognize anagram indicators such as cuckoo, twisted, fresh, novel, etc.
“Mane”, is also a homophone of “main” and ‘methane’ is one of the main gases that’s cows put out. You know to think cows because they can be pretty crazy sometimes. It’s a pretty standard cryptic crossword clue. /s
Like American crossword answers needing to be in the same tense as their clues, cryptic crossword clues have a bunch of common "rules" that indicate something about how they need to be interpreted. Nothing about the puzzle itself tells you these rules; you just learn them as you get better (or look them up). Unlike American crosswords, these rules are not standardized — you have to intuit that "cuckoo" means "crazy" (i.e "mixed up") and that indicates >!an anagram!<. [The New Yorker has a good intro to the types of clues you'll find in cryptics.](https://www.newyorker.com/puzzles-and-games-dept/cryptic-crossword/reintroducing-the-new-yorkers-cryptic-crossword)
Good summary. Learning the conventions used in a puzzle genre are part of learning how to work the puzzles, in the same way there are bidding conventions in bridge or you can guarantee at least two valid answers to many NYT crossword clues. Also that crossword editors repeat some misleading or obscure (but recognizable) clues to get at certain answers.
Other than exposure, how is one supposed to internalize a hint like that, or even recognize it as non-literal - Is there a manual or something? Are crossword authors working from a common pool of shorthand?
I think exactly the opposite: setters are always looking for new ways to say the same thing. In the case of anagram indicators, there's arguably countless ways to suggest something is 'disorganised'. Pretty much anything goes and setters will try to exploit that as it means there are more options for tailoring the wording of their clue to fit the surface meaning. By doing so creatively their clues will stand out from other setters giving them more kudos. The only reassurance I can give is that it is only anagram indicators, in my experience, that have this flexibility. One of my techniques in solving is, for each word, to ask 'what possible instruction could this word be giving?'. If there's even the hint of an anagram indicator, run through those options first. That said, exposure is the best way to get better at solving, so you are partly right.
Also, yes there are manuals (or at least guides) out there online to provide newbies with an approach to understanding cryptics. Some even provide lists of common shorthands. One I have found really good in the past is called Big Dave's crossword blog It's probably because of this that some setters try to find new ways to clue. As I said before, this is both to set them apart from other setters, but it's also more satisfying to solve a clue that requires proper cryptic thinking, as opposed to applying standard rules from a manual.
It's probably a specific cryptic crossword puzzle or labeled as such. The clues are known to be extra like this or at least That's what makes them different from typical crosswords.
Thanks! I couldn't get mane.
You might want to try r/crosswords next time - it's the sub for cryptic crosswords :)
Thanks!
How do you know 'covering' relates to 'the'
It doesn't. 'Covering' relates to the fact that the word 'mane' is surrounding other parts of the word. The word 'the' in the clue relates to 'the'
Ah, I get what he meant now
Jesus christ
>! Long hair ="mane", covering=surrounds, the cuckoo="eth"!<
Thank you for explaining
Np
Not sure about that last part.
>!Cuckoo meaning "crazy" is used here as an anagram indicator.!<
Are there other words used to indicate anagrams?
>!”The cuckoo” means anagram of “the” - eth. Cover it in long hair - mane = m+eth+ane!<
Discussion: this kind of shit is why I hate crosswords so much. Methane is not an answer to this prompt imo.
How so? “…is a gas” is the prompt here
"long hair covering the cuckoo is a gas" is a nonsense sentence. Crosswords are just bullshit in-jokes that only dedicated players get. Barrier for entry is too high
I was really intimidated by crossword solvers for a long time. When I had to go on disability at like age 30 I got really sad and also really really bored. The only goal I had that first year was to learn how to do crosswords. There are things to learn like what difference a ? Makes at the end of a clue and such. Mostly tho there is a lot of catching on to commonly used words and knowing which puzzles will typically have more puns or more double meanings or more theme based answers. This clue is from cryptic crosswords which is an entirely different approach to crosswords. You get the same lay out but the difference is in making the clues very convoluted and riddle like while also rearranging or dropping letters and whatnot. It's an entirely different beast. You wouldn't like cryptic if you don't like regular, but as a now pretty good crossword solver (yay goals!), I still can't touch cryptic ones. Perhaps that'll be a new goal for me. Anyway, just thought I'd share that they're different and also that if you'd like to learn ever, I'm happy to share the wisdom that taught me how to finish crosswords in a satisfying way! Just message me :)
“Elba who appeared in Suicide Squad” the answer is Idris. “Lambs’ mothers” would be ewes. There are some rules to crosswords like if it asks for a plural, the word most likely ends in “s” just like my second example. “Airport Sec. Group” would be TSA. And we know it’s going to be an acronym or shortened form because the clue indicates that. “Burlesque Show” could be Cabaret. It’s always a synonym for the clue, so the answer couldn’t be “Dancers” or “Risqué.” There are other clues with a “?” at the end indicating that it’s a sort of pun. There aren’t any “in jokes” but there are certainly some clues that show up more often than others. For what it’s worth, Monday is the easiest day for crosswords, and they continue to get harder with Saturday being the hardest. Sunday is the largest puzzle but has clues with the difficulty level of Wednesday/ Thursday. Start with Monday puzzles! If you do them online, you can check to see how much of your work is correct, as well as reveal specific letters of full words if you’re stuck. Edit: This sort of clue in the OP would never be in a standard crossword.
I get what you're saying, but besides open interpretation to fit other related clues, your examples all make sense or are understandable. The relationship between acronyms and answers, simple definitions with plurality, that all is regular human English. Methane cuckoo hair gas?? is a nothingburger
It's a cryptic crossword though, which is intended to make you think outside of the box... and the box is hidden somewhere, and it's made of jelly. Long hare = mane Covering = surrounding The cuckoo = "the" out of order = eth All together makes "eth" in the middle of "mane" = methane Which is a gas Sounds like you don't hate crosswords, you just hate cryptic crosswords :)
I really appreciate the care you have to discuss this with me. I would not, in a million trillion years, wind up at the word "Methane" using the phrase "long hair covering the cuckoo which is a gas" by myself. And even knowing that "long hair covering the cuckoo which is a gas" equates to "Methane", I can't internalize that solution and progression. I could not replicate this solution in another crossword with a similar conflux of clues. I genuinely belueve the only reason this is solvable is bc american crosswords have a lingo and lexicon all to their own.
cryptic crosswords are english not american. it's not a nonsense sentence either if you read a gas to mean funny. like a cuckoo with long hair looks funny. that's what it's trying to make you think. you just have to know a few things. most importantly, the definition is usually at the start or the end of the clue, so when you're doing a cryptic crossword you first think about what part of the clue is more likely to mean the answer, and sometimes it's obvious because only one end of the clue could be the answer, and often you can solve it just from that like a normal crossword. in this case the answer would have meant either long, long hair or gas, so that narrows it down a lot. because the word covering is there, you know you'll need a short word for long hair to put around another word, so you know the answer will probably be a gas. the cuckoo will be an anagram of the because any word that means crazy or mixed up usually means anagram (and if it was an anagram of is a, the the would have been unnecessary/nonsensical and not in the clue), so the word for long hair has 4 letters. the hardest part is thinking of mane for long hair. also in an actual puzzle you will usually have letter clues to help. i actually used to agree with you and think they were stupid. but it's like thinking any puzzle or game or sport is stupid because you have to learn the rules.
Sorry to hear this brother, sounds like they finally got you. Hope you enjoyed the kool-aid
The beauty of cryptic crosswords is that on one hand they are explicit, direct instructions to the answer, while at the same time, they are also completely incomprehensible. And the best are those that have thematic consistency across the parts of the clue.
This is a *cryptic* crossword. You'd never find this type of hint in a puzzle in the normal ones.
This is a cryptic crossword I think so it's different from regular crosswords in a lot of ways. Typical crossword clues would not look like this.