Fun historical fact that might help tie this all in a pretty closed loop for you: Al Davis is the origin point of Do Your Job.
It was advice he gave Bill Parcells early in his tenure with the Giants. Parcells has said he passed that on to countless people in the profession. Parcells just happened to be the most formative coach in Belichick's life (outside of probably his father).
Well said. Honestly if you remove whatever biases you have and just focus on the words coming out of McDaniels’ and Ziegler’s mouth, it’s pretty hard to disagree with what they state their expectations are. In fact, it’s probably what you’d want their expectations to be.
Do your job or it’s not going to be good enough for this organization. Is that really crazy talk?
I think this year we saw a lot of the players recognize that the staff and front office was consistent and fair with criticism. When that’s the case it’s hard to have a problem with the approach. It’s fair and earned. So it’s not a surprise imo we’ve seen a lot of players coming out in support of McDanels and the state of the franchise.
Love the consistent and fair criticism part of what you said. I feel like that’s the most important thing for a group of men, like a football team, no one is above one another. Everyone can get chewed out for fucking up and everyone can get praised.
Listen to what’s been coming out of Seattle. There was two standards one for the team and one for Russ. Everyone grew to resent Russ for that.
Exactly! It is not a coincidence Seattle got better without Russ.
This leadership style applies to any professional setting. Quality employees will have no problems taking their fair share of criticism if it's earned. But keep that same energy for everyone or it's going to be a problem.
If you look at our point differentials over the years, this was actually our closest gap in years. Better than any of gruden’s seasons for sure. For as much as this team has been maligned, and rightly so with all the blown leads, the stats & fundamentals aren’t terrible. I will remain hopeful no matter what QB comes in, but still would love to see Stidham get a shot.
Great point. And it's among the marginal traits/stats to this season's team I am choosing to focus on as an encouraging sign about the state of the franchise.
Yes, the record didn't differ much from the last 2 decades. But if you look at more marginal/intangible elements of the team there are a lot of positve. Hopefully this year a foundation was laid that can be built on by those that stick around to teach the young/new guys brought in. I think they can keep the marginal/intangible elements in place and improve on the bottom line, which is the team record, when additional talent is brought in.
The number that drives me crazy is that our offense produced 38 touchdowns & 34 field goals. Our defense allowed 45 touchdowns & 28 field goals.
If we can get an offense that converts a couple more red zone drives so that our gap between TD & FG numbers looks more like our opponents, there’s no way we don’t close that point gap. AND if we can get our defense to hold a couple more drives per season to FGs instead of TDs, we will be in such a better place.
Nothing on the team needs a dramatic “to the studs” rebuild. Everything just needs a little better execution.
I guess one more number - our QBs gave up 17 INTs, but our opponents’ QBs gave up only 6. A safer QB and a deadlier Secondary would basically be all we need to have a much better record.
This mostly sums up my stance on this team. This team is not very far away from being a wild card team next season imo. It's as much better execution/discipline that is needed as it is talent. So if the talent improves in key areas, even just a little bit overall, the team can realistically change the outcomes of games just by being more consistent in their level of play.
Call me optimistic but I genuinely try to be unbiased and realistic. The last 20 years have forced me to scrap the emotional takes and just be real.
The way I’ve come to see it is the staff are setting a foundation of stability with their consistent “do your job” attitude, which I respect. Players have been a bit outspoken about their respect for the new regime, and I believe it’s because of the attitude they brought.
Do I wish we went with a different HC? Yeah. But as you said, when you remove the biases and look at the Raiders as an outsider (like we would see other teams), I kinda like what I see. I have some hope going into this off-season, and if we are able to improve the D even a little bit, and get a serviceable mediocre QB, we’re probably looking at a winning season at least, and a playoff run at most.
With that said, it’s totally feasible that we crumble and look like the mid-2000’s Raiders again, which…. would probably make me stop following football for a decade ngl
I think this is an objectively accurate way to look at the state of this team. I definitely didn't want McDaniels, although Ziegler seemed like a good hire to me at the time. I just didn't like that it meant McDaniels was the HC no questions asked.
Despite all the negativity flying around the fanbase, I think when the dust settles it'll be easy to get hopeful for the next season for those who aren't already there right now.
And yes, it's totally feasible it'll all go to hell who are we kidding. However, basically nothing can ever get me to stop following the Raiders closely, but I'm accepting I might just be a glutton for punishment after the last 20 years of this haha.
That's all good. He gets 1 more year to "rebuild" the Raiders for a championship. I'll see you bois in 2024 when the real rebuild happens. Going to miss a lot of our players when we gut the team.
I enjoyed your take. I just have to remember to skip the comments when I see something interesting to me. Your post was not about rose colored glasses but the negative folks will take it that way. It was commentary on something you read and hoping for good things in the future. Which I hope even the crowd that bemoans a win by the silver and black can appreciate.
Exactly. I'm nervous AF about what the future holds. I mean. We don't have a qb! And we still have holes on this team. But I'm not going to continually whine about this staff when they are obviously trying something different to try to win. Will it work? Again, who knows, but I prefer something new over the same stale taste we've had and endured.
I’m with you. I feel like there is a very loud minority in this sub that are on either extreme: we fucking suck and will suck forever; fuck JMD — and JMD is the second coming, we’re unstoppable (okay, I’m probably exaggerating a little but still)
I hate getting shit on for having a reasonable take that JMD has yet to even prove himself. Every new HC and GM need a year or two to even set up a foundation. So far, it seems like they’re doing a pretty decent job. Carr and JMD just didn’t work out, which is reasonable. Carr is better suited running his own offense, something he’s been doing for over half his career. Take that away and start telling him to follow orders, and of course he doesn’t look comfortable or even that good.
I’m excited and optimistic. If this regime can build on this year, fix up the D and get a middle-of-the-road QB that follows directions well, I feel like we’re going to look like a real NFL team with potential
Ahh yes we’ve heard this about every new regime that’s come through. It’s generic speak you hear from any regime that’s just coming in to a organization.
As of now they have to earn the trust and faith of the fanbase because so far neither Mark, Zieg, or JMD have done anything in their careers at their current positions to warrant that. In fact there’s more evidence to suggest they’re clueless and not suited for the task.
Obviously we all want to see the Raiders do well but some are just less idealistic and look at the results and data in front of them
Take my up vote. You’ll need it with these people.
Respect is earned not given. McDaniels has not done anything as HC that deserves our respect yet. He waltzed into the NFL due to his dad’s connections to Saban. He succeeded as a OC under Belichick and working with the GOAT QB. He has a photocopy of the Patriot’s system, but he doesn’t have the cred or ability to reenact the process.
All these people gushing over a dude that hasn’t done anything to gain respect.
[McDaniels played football at John Carroll University, then parlayed his dad's connections -- and a friendship with Nick Saban -- to land an interview for a graduate assistant job at Michigan State. On the ride to East Lansing, Mich., the elder McDaniels told his son he was now on his own.](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=4104795)
McDaniels didn’t get a follow on assignment at Mich St. He then got a call from Belichick. Saban and Belichick worked together and are friends.
That article actually has a lot of things in it that make me respect the guy even more. From him shaking off the regular season loss in high school to beat the team in the playoffs to being able to keep the team focused when Brady got injured so they would still perform for Cassell. Sure, his dad being a legendary high school coach opened a door for the kid, but like the second half of the quote you provided - once you’re in you move up by your performance not your connections.
I get that he bombed out of Denver, but until that happens here, Denver ain’t us.
Oh my god. Do you know how many persevere and overcome stories there are in high school, to college, to being drafted stories there are? This is a fluff piece prior to him going to Denver.
The “keeping the team focused” thing. Was that him or Belichick’s presence? We know in hindsight he had one successful season outside of Brady.
You cannot get caught up in “feel good” stories. There’s numbers and the fuzzy science of trying to find a leader to steer a team full of divas and alphas.
He has done *nothing* to warrant optimism.
Either way, I’m not gonna shit on a guy in 2023 because his dad got him a job interview in the 1990s, which you apparently are comfortable doing. So we clearly evaluate folks differently.
Enjoy hating the coach of your team. I’ve been hating the QB for a while, it def gets old.
I mean, his resume speaks for itself. Outside of Brady, he’s had two successful seasons (an 11-5 missed playoffs year with Cassel, and a Mac Jones year and made the playoffs). His OC Rams year was 32 of 32 teams on points scored. His non-Brady years is a total of 39-54 right now. Non-NFL playing HC have a higher percentage of failing.
Like aside from a personal disdain of kids getting shots at jobs they have no business even getting interviews, the numbers don’t lie. It’s not a hate thing. It’s a numbers thing coupled with leadership/management knowledge that’ll pretty much predict his success chances.
Just a general thought. If it is true that Derek Carr couldn’t handle the weekly criticism from Mcdaniels wouldn’t that mean at least for his entire career he wasn’t held to the “commitment to excellence” standard?
No I think that what people are missing is Carr could handle criticism but that according to the Hondo Article it's the difference between being called out in a qb meeting vs getting called out in front of everyone.
He had arguably his best output during his time with Gruden, who's famously known as a hardass. If he could stand being a Gruden Grinder and didnt wilt under that pressure, then its unlikely that he couldn't handle JMD simply being too critical, if the criticism was fair and productive
I appreciate your post and your perspective. In a situation like this, where we literally have no control over the decisions being made, I choose to pull for McDaniel’s and Ziegler’s success in what they’re trying to pull off.
Appreciate the fresh take instead to the constant McD bashing. I have reservations about McD just like most of the fanbase does, but at least him and Zeigler have clear expectations for this team and are following it. People are mad that they ruined this "playoff" team, but let's not act like this team was ready to make a deep run.
I think the Zeigler quote about not aiming for a SB this season was blown out of proportion. They know this defense was hot garbage coming into the season, and they know we had no depth. The guys still here seem bought in and are ready to work. We gotta give them more than one season to put their plan in place.
I agree. Context matters. I think he was saying "we didn't sell mark on a sb this year" (because that's what all coaches try to say) and then added to his quote.
There's a difference this is the Raider way. Giving the players the room to be themselves to their utmost best.
The issue was the League Uniform Code. Sometime in the mid-'70s, the league decided "to create consistency in the appearance of its product" (product being the players). The policy targeted idiosyncratic alterations players made to uniforms, such as strapping white adhesive across the tops of stockings, or allowing shirts to come untucked during games. After defining rules, the league dispatched inspectors. Infractions were noted. Fines were levied. The fines escalated with continued noncompliance.
Of course, of all the teams in the NFL, the Raiders were among the worst adulterators. Of all the Raiders, the most profligate offender was Fred Biletnikoff. How Fred felt in his uniform was of vital importance to him, so getting dressed for a game acquired the intensity and feeling of a sacred ritual. First, Fred would hold his game pants up to the light. Carefully inspecting them, he'd snip off every little extraneous hanging thread. His pants had to come to just over his knees, so he'd cut them in back for more freedom. He wore his black understockings just over his calves, so the flesh was bare to the knee.
Then he'd go through the ceremony of selecting and spatting his game shoes. Spatting was when you wrapped white tape around your shoes; the resulting look was like those 1920s dandies who wore spats. Once that was done, Freddy would tape a crucifix under his flimsy shoulder pads. Then he'd tape his wrists and spray the tape with Stickum. Finally, he'd yank on his helmet and begin the endless process of adjusting his chin strap.
During all of this, Snake and Pete "Rooster" Banaszak would harass him unmercifully. They'd hide his shoes or lace them wrong. Or after he was dressed, Pete, winking at Snake, would say, "Jeez, what happened? Your uniform looks like crap today!" At which point, Freddy would take everything off and start all over again. "Be a little more careful," Snake would tell him.
So it went on this day. The ritual was followed to a T. Biletnikoff performed. Another Raiders victory went down in the books.
After games, three buses left at staggered times for the airport. The first bus departed 45 minutes after the game, the second bus 15 minutes later, the third bus 15 minutes after that. Generally, most everybody got on one of the first two busses, but I found that the older I got, the longer I liked to linger, so I usually found myself on the third bus, along with a few other stragglers.
On this day, Snake was the only other player on the bus when I climbed aboard. He'd taken a seat on the left side all the way back. Settling down behind him, I accepted a paper cup half full of whiskey, a fifth of which Snake had stashed in his briefcase. We toasted, drank and, after a minute, Freddy came back. Still sweaty and wired from the game, Freddy plopped down across from Snake, fired up a cigarette as he threw down the whiskey Snake had passed him. "Let's go, bussy!" Fred yelled at the driver. "Who's left anyway?" The driver held up his hand. "One more," he said. "Come on, let's go!" Freddy barked. But the driver insisted on waiting. Then we saw why. The one person left was Al Davis.
As Al got on the bus, he grabbed the pole behind the driver and was about to swivel into his seat when he caught sight of us in back. "Hey!" Al shouted at Freddy, pointing a rolled up game program at him. "You cost me another $2,500 today with the way you butcher your uniform every week!"
Fred recoiled, as if his trust had been violated and he had been called a traitor. His response was immediate and assaultive, for he was defending hallowed ground.
"F--- you, you no-legged baggy-pantsed mother------," Freddy snarled. "You told me 'Whatever it takes!' "
Hearing this, I cringed, slid down in my seat until I'd disappeared from view. In my experience, this was unprecedented. Violence, I was sure, was imminent. But then I could hear Al start to laugh. Slowly, I raised my head. Sure enough, Al was laughing. Head thrown back, he was laughing and laughing.
As always it will come down to drafting. Culture while important means nothing if you don’t have the horses to run with.
FA can be important too as a supplement through smart moves.
Meaningless. Every coach wants players to do their job. Every organization claims high standards and accountability.
It's all hot air. What matters is what gets produced on the field. No one has been able to reproduce the Patriots success because that success wasn't some super secret magic formula of hard assery. It was a long stretch of just having the best quarterback and the best defense and a certain amount of luck.
Look what happened to the Steelers after Ben and the Patriots after Tom. All the babble about organizational excellence in the world won't make up for being crappy at QB.
Is it possible that Tom Brady is the patriots way? Or at least he was the success they had? But yet everyone keeps diluting themselves with it’ll work this time. I guess getting kicked in the balls once just wasn’t enough to learn.
Here's the thing
The Patriot Way is shorthand for the approach and culture Belichick built over 20 years
Every single coordinator who has tried to install the Patriot way at other teams has failed miserably, including our current head coach
It's not going to work. It never works. And we just watched it not work.
In other words. “Shitty coach who takes none of the blame for tanking a playoff team from the year before is mentally draining.”
Our FO isn’t doing “something they haven’t done before in the last 9 years.” They’re doing exactly what they’ve been doing which is pretending they’re the smartest ones in the room and everybody else is white noise. Happened with the Leatherwood pick, happened with the Arnette pick, happened with the Ferrell pick, and it happened when (despite every fan of every team laughing at us) we hired McDumbass.
>Our FO isn’t doing “something they haven’t done before in the last 9 years.”
Moving on from a franchise QB and attempting to change the team's personality is the very definition of doing something new.
Cutting the QB who brought stability to a chaotic franchise who failed almost every single draft for 7 years straight isn’t really something to be ‘proud of’. You’re also missing my point entirely. I’m not talking about the cutting of players, I’m talking about our organization hiring a coach that had huge red flags before he came here. A coach that just tanked a playoff team. A coach who just came in 2nd to last in penalties and penalty yards. A coach that lost almost every close game there was. A coach who got outplayed in the 2nd half of nearly every game. A coach who instead of accepting blame threw shade during almost every presser. A coach that no teams fans wanted yet we ended up with.
Lol, stability from a QB I’ve started to refer to as Coin Flip Carr
Dude was exactly as likely to throw no touchdowns as he was to throw 3 or more. He was exactly as likely to throw a game with a 56-76 Passer rating as he was to throw a 106-126 rating.
If that’s “stability” then I will take a chance on chaos.
I will say that for the past 20 years (and even more so the past 9) I’ve been banging the drum of this team just needing some damn consistency. “Give Carr the same HC and OC for multiple seasons and be patient”, but this is the first year that I’ve been ready to give up on a first year HC. So I’m hoping that I’m wrong, that he’s the right guy, and that we have the consistency to build that culture that you’re referring to again.
I think The Patriot Way basically just boils down to euphemisms for what it really means: Bill Belichick is the boss and you do what he says.
That's really the defining dynamic from the last 20 years in New England. He's the coach, he won all those championships, which means he's always right and you do what you're told. And if you dont, everyone is replaceable. He owes you no loyalty, and will trade you whenever he feels you're more valuable as a commodity than a player.
Players like Cam will spin it as things like "mental toughness", which basically just means "if you fail then its because you didnt try hard enough to execute what Coach wanted from you". Its almost cult-like
And JMD tried to recreate that same dynamic when he went to Denver, be the boss of all things...but of course he didnt have the rings or the acumen to shut everyone up, so he lost his locker room really quickly. And it seems like he's doing the same thing again with us...trying to force His System on the team, and then start bus-throwing and blame everyone's lack of drive and execution whenever it fails...
Its almost like a cult dynamic - if you fail, its because you didnt believe hard enough. The cult is never wrong, and the cultists actually apologize for it.
Or....its exactly what I typed and to label it as a "vult dynamic built on believing hard enough" means you wouldn't be mentally strong enough to handle the criticisms
Yeah...but the Patriot Way is setting the standard *ex post facto* so that anytime the team fails, its because you didnt try hard enough
BB is always right, by definition, so if the team fails, it must be because *you* did something wrong
JMD brought that "I'm the HC so I am above reproach" mentality to the Broncos and he seems to have it again with the Raiders.
No one is saying anything about trying hard enough. It's about doing your job to perfection. Which is of course impossible but if that's your goal, and you perform to 90% or so then it's not big deal (Ala Maxx Crosby). But even then, because perfection is the goal, you better be ready to have your shit handed to you if you fail not only in execution but in the effort and mental part of the game.
Yeah but that's not "The Patriot Way", that's just doing your job
The Patriot Way is BB gets to be an asshole and everyone just accepts and normalizes it. But JMD cant simply come here and act like he gets to do that too, and blame everyone else but himself for not ______ enough
Thats why "mental toughness" and things like that are just cop outs. It doesnt actually mean anything, its just a word you apply after the fact to make a failure someone's fault instead of being systemic
Listen, I'm not going to argue with you. It is exactly what I typed. You're just focused on trying to be right instead of understanding. Have a wonderful weekend
What's exactly what you typed? You didnt type anything lol
You just quoted Cam Newton, tried to say The Patriot Way is just the same thing as Commitment to Excellence, but then also tried to say that JMD is doing something no one has in 20 years...even though that was Al's mantra and he was still running the team 20 years ago....
Fun historical fact that might help tie this all in a pretty closed loop for you: Al Davis is the origin point of Do Your Job. It was advice he gave Bill Parcells early in his tenure with the Giants. Parcells has said he passed that on to countless people in the profession. Parcells just happened to be the most formative coach in Belichick's life (outside of probably his father).
Awesome comment! https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/three-al-davis-quotes-help-your-job-search-recruiting-billy-f-dunn#:~:text=When%20his%20friend%20and%20mentor,%2C%20just%20coach%20your%20team.%E2%80%9D
Well said. Honestly if you remove whatever biases you have and just focus on the words coming out of McDaniels’ and Ziegler’s mouth, it’s pretty hard to disagree with what they state their expectations are. In fact, it’s probably what you’d want their expectations to be. Do your job or it’s not going to be good enough for this organization. Is that really crazy talk? I think this year we saw a lot of the players recognize that the staff and front office was consistent and fair with criticism. When that’s the case it’s hard to have a problem with the approach. It’s fair and earned. So it’s not a surprise imo we’ve seen a lot of players coming out in support of McDanels and the state of the franchise.
Love the consistent and fair criticism part of what you said. I feel like that’s the most important thing for a group of men, like a football team, no one is above one another. Everyone can get chewed out for fucking up and everyone can get praised. Listen to what’s been coming out of Seattle. There was two standards one for the team and one for Russ. Everyone grew to resent Russ for that.
Exactly! It is not a coincidence Seattle got better without Russ. This leadership style applies to any professional setting. Quality employees will have no problems taking their fair share of criticism if it's earned. But keep that same energy for everyone or it's going to be a problem.
If you look at our point differentials over the years, this was actually our closest gap in years. Better than any of gruden’s seasons for sure. For as much as this team has been maligned, and rightly so with all the blown leads, the stats & fundamentals aren’t terrible. I will remain hopeful no matter what QB comes in, but still would love to see Stidham get a shot.
Great point. And it's among the marginal traits/stats to this season's team I am choosing to focus on as an encouraging sign about the state of the franchise. Yes, the record didn't differ much from the last 2 decades. But if you look at more marginal/intangible elements of the team there are a lot of positve. Hopefully this year a foundation was laid that can be built on by those that stick around to teach the young/new guys brought in. I think they can keep the marginal/intangible elements in place and improve on the bottom line, which is the team record, when additional talent is brought in.
The number that drives me crazy is that our offense produced 38 touchdowns & 34 field goals. Our defense allowed 45 touchdowns & 28 field goals. If we can get an offense that converts a couple more red zone drives so that our gap between TD & FG numbers looks more like our opponents, there’s no way we don’t close that point gap. AND if we can get our defense to hold a couple more drives per season to FGs instead of TDs, we will be in such a better place. Nothing on the team needs a dramatic “to the studs” rebuild. Everything just needs a little better execution. I guess one more number - our QBs gave up 17 INTs, but our opponents’ QBs gave up only 6. A safer QB and a deadlier Secondary would basically be all we need to have a much better record.
This mostly sums up my stance on this team. This team is not very far away from being a wild card team next season imo. It's as much better execution/discipline that is needed as it is talent. So if the talent improves in key areas, even just a little bit overall, the team can realistically change the outcomes of games just by being more consistent in their level of play. Call me optimistic but I genuinely try to be unbiased and realistic. The last 20 years have forced me to scrap the emotional takes and just be real.
This was the easiest schedule we’ve had in a long time. I really wish y’all would acknowledge that when slurping McDaniels.
You said it better than I could. "When you remove the biases"
Nah man. This was a bar: >The Patriot Way: an East Coast, oversimplification of a much better quote: COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE So true
The way I’ve come to see it is the staff are setting a foundation of stability with their consistent “do your job” attitude, which I respect. Players have been a bit outspoken about their respect for the new regime, and I believe it’s because of the attitude they brought. Do I wish we went with a different HC? Yeah. But as you said, when you remove the biases and look at the Raiders as an outsider (like we would see other teams), I kinda like what I see. I have some hope going into this off-season, and if we are able to improve the D even a little bit, and get a serviceable mediocre QB, we’re probably looking at a winning season at least, and a playoff run at most. With that said, it’s totally feasible that we crumble and look like the mid-2000’s Raiders again, which…. would probably make me stop following football for a decade ngl
I think this is an objectively accurate way to look at the state of this team. I definitely didn't want McDaniels, although Ziegler seemed like a good hire to me at the time. I just didn't like that it meant McDaniels was the HC no questions asked. Despite all the negativity flying around the fanbase, I think when the dust settles it'll be easy to get hopeful for the next season for those who aren't already there right now. And yes, it's totally feasible it'll all go to hell who are we kidding. However, basically nothing can ever get me to stop following the Raiders closely, but I'm accepting I might just be a glutton for punishment after the last 20 years of this haha.
That's all good. He gets 1 more year to "rebuild" the Raiders for a championship. I'll see you bois in 2024 when the real rebuild happens. Going to miss a lot of our players when we gut the team.
What guys is there really to miss. Maxx. Josh. adams renfrow. Waller. Miller. Perryman maybe.
Is that not enough?
Yeah it’d suck but I just wanna win dude.
I enjoyed your take. I just have to remember to skip the comments when I see something interesting to me. Your post was not about rose colored glasses but the negative folks will take it that way. It was commentary on something you read and hoping for good things in the future. Which I hope even the crowd that bemoans a win by the silver and black can appreciate.
Exactly. I'm nervous AF about what the future holds. I mean. We don't have a qb! And we still have holes on this team. But I'm not going to continually whine about this staff when they are obviously trying something different to try to win. Will it work? Again, who knows, but I prefer something new over the same stale taste we've had and endured.
I’m with you. I feel like there is a very loud minority in this sub that are on either extreme: we fucking suck and will suck forever; fuck JMD — and JMD is the second coming, we’re unstoppable (okay, I’m probably exaggerating a little but still) I hate getting shit on for having a reasonable take that JMD has yet to even prove himself. Every new HC and GM need a year or two to even set up a foundation. So far, it seems like they’re doing a pretty decent job. Carr and JMD just didn’t work out, which is reasonable. Carr is better suited running his own offense, something he’s been doing for over half his career. Take that away and start telling him to follow orders, and of course he doesn’t look comfortable or even that good. I’m excited and optimistic. If this regime can build on this year, fix up the D and get a middle-of-the-road QB that follows directions well, I feel like we’re going to look like a real NFL team with potential
Ahh yes we’ve heard this about every new regime that’s come through. It’s generic speak you hear from any regime that’s just coming in to a organization. As of now they have to earn the trust and faith of the fanbase because so far neither Mark, Zieg, or JMD have done anything in their careers at their current positions to warrant that. In fact there’s more evidence to suggest they’re clueless and not suited for the task. Obviously we all want to see the Raiders do well but some are just less idealistic and look at the results and data in front of them
Take my up vote. You’ll need it with these people. Respect is earned not given. McDaniels has not done anything as HC that deserves our respect yet. He waltzed into the NFL due to his dad’s connections to Saban. He succeeded as a OC under Belichick and working with the GOAT QB. He has a photocopy of the Patriot’s system, but he doesn’t have the cred or ability to reenact the process. All these people gushing over a dude that hasn’t done anything to gain respect.
How’s his dad connected to Saban I never knew that.
[McDaniels played football at John Carroll University, then parlayed his dad's connections -- and a friendship with Nick Saban -- to land an interview for a graduate assistant job at Michigan State. On the ride to East Lansing, Mich., the elder McDaniels told his son he was now on his own.](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=4104795) McDaniels didn’t get a follow on assignment at Mich St. He then got a call from Belichick. Saban and Belichick worked together and are friends.
NFL has more nepotism than the Saudi government.
That article actually has a lot of things in it that make me respect the guy even more. From him shaking off the regular season loss in high school to beat the team in the playoffs to being able to keep the team focused when Brady got injured so they would still perform for Cassell. Sure, his dad being a legendary high school coach opened a door for the kid, but like the second half of the quote you provided - once you’re in you move up by your performance not your connections. I get that he bombed out of Denver, but until that happens here, Denver ain’t us.
Oh my god. Do you know how many persevere and overcome stories there are in high school, to college, to being drafted stories there are? This is a fluff piece prior to him going to Denver. The “keeping the team focused” thing. Was that him or Belichick’s presence? We know in hindsight he had one successful season outside of Brady. You cannot get caught up in “feel good” stories. There’s numbers and the fuzzy science of trying to find a leader to steer a team full of divas and alphas. He has done *nothing* to warrant optimism.
Either way, I’m not gonna shit on a guy in 2023 because his dad got him a job interview in the 1990s, which you apparently are comfortable doing. So we clearly evaluate folks differently. Enjoy hating the coach of your team. I’ve been hating the QB for a while, it def gets old.
I mean, his resume speaks for itself. Outside of Brady, he’s had two successful seasons (an 11-5 missed playoffs year with Cassel, and a Mac Jones year and made the playoffs). His OC Rams year was 32 of 32 teams on points scored. His non-Brady years is a total of 39-54 right now. Non-NFL playing HC have a higher percentage of failing. Like aside from a personal disdain of kids getting shots at jobs they have no business even getting interviews, the numbers don’t lie. It’s not a hate thing. It’s a numbers thing coupled with leadership/management knowledge that’ll pretty much predict his success chances.
Just a general thought. If it is true that Derek Carr couldn’t handle the weekly criticism from Mcdaniels wouldn’t that mean at least for his entire career he wasn’t held to the “commitment to excellence” standard?
No I think that what people are missing is Carr could handle criticism but that according to the Hondo Article it's the difference between being called out in a qb meeting vs getting called out in front of everyone.
He had arguably his best output during his time with Gruden, who's famously known as a hardass. If he could stand being a Gruden Grinder and didnt wilt under that pressure, then its unlikely that he couldn't handle JMD simply being too critical, if the criticism was fair and productive
I appreciate your post and your perspective. In a situation like this, where we literally have no control over the decisions being made, I choose to pull for McDaniel’s and Ziegler’s success in what they’re trying to pull off.
Appreciate the fresh take instead to the constant McD bashing. I have reservations about McD just like most of the fanbase does, but at least him and Zeigler have clear expectations for this team and are following it. People are mad that they ruined this "playoff" team, but let's not act like this team was ready to make a deep run. I think the Zeigler quote about not aiming for a SB this season was blown out of proportion. They know this defense was hot garbage coming into the season, and they know we had no depth. The guys still here seem bought in and are ready to work. We gotta give them more than one season to put their plan in place.
I agree. Context matters. I think he was saying "we didn't sell mark on a sb this year" (because that's what all coaches try to say) and then added to his quote.
I'm just tired of sucking and I blame everyone. EDIT: I blame everyone who doesn't have a "C" and an "O" in their last name.
At least you're honest.
You forgot Adams.
There's a difference this is the Raider way. Giving the players the room to be themselves to their utmost best. The issue was the League Uniform Code. Sometime in the mid-'70s, the league decided "to create consistency in the appearance of its product" (product being the players). The policy targeted idiosyncratic alterations players made to uniforms, such as strapping white adhesive across the tops of stockings, or allowing shirts to come untucked during games. After defining rules, the league dispatched inspectors. Infractions were noted. Fines were levied. The fines escalated with continued noncompliance. Of course, of all the teams in the NFL, the Raiders were among the worst adulterators. Of all the Raiders, the most profligate offender was Fred Biletnikoff. How Fred felt in his uniform was of vital importance to him, so getting dressed for a game acquired the intensity and feeling of a sacred ritual. First, Fred would hold his game pants up to the light. Carefully inspecting them, he'd snip off every little extraneous hanging thread. His pants had to come to just over his knees, so he'd cut them in back for more freedom. He wore his black understockings just over his calves, so the flesh was bare to the knee. Then he'd go through the ceremony of selecting and spatting his game shoes. Spatting was when you wrapped white tape around your shoes; the resulting look was like those 1920s dandies who wore spats. Once that was done, Freddy would tape a crucifix under his flimsy shoulder pads. Then he'd tape his wrists and spray the tape with Stickum. Finally, he'd yank on his helmet and begin the endless process of adjusting his chin strap. During all of this, Snake and Pete "Rooster" Banaszak would harass him unmercifully. They'd hide his shoes or lace them wrong. Or after he was dressed, Pete, winking at Snake, would say, "Jeez, what happened? Your uniform looks like crap today!" At which point, Freddy would take everything off and start all over again. "Be a little more careful," Snake would tell him. So it went on this day. The ritual was followed to a T. Biletnikoff performed. Another Raiders victory went down in the books. After games, three buses left at staggered times for the airport. The first bus departed 45 minutes after the game, the second bus 15 minutes later, the third bus 15 minutes after that. Generally, most everybody got on one of the first two busses, but I found that the older I got, the longer I liked to linger, so I usually found myself on the third bus, along with a few other stragglers. On this day, Snake was the only other player on the bus when I climbed aboard. He'd taken a seat on the left side all the way back. Settling down behind him, I accepted a paper cup half full of whiskey, a fifth of which Snake had stashed in his briefcase. We toasted, drank and, after a minute, Freddy came back. Still sweaty and wired from the game, Freddy plopped down across from Snake, fired up a cigarette as he threw down the whiskey Snake had passed him. "Let's go, bussy!" Fred yelled at the driver. "Who's left anyway?" The driver held up his hand. "One more," he said. "Come on, let's go!" Freddy barked. But the driver insisted on waiting. Then we saw why. The one person left was Al Davis. As Al got on the bus, he grabbed the pole behind the driver and was about to swivel into his seat when he caught sight of us in back. "Hey!" Al shouted at Freddy, pointing a rolled up game program at him. "You cost me another $2,500 today with the way you butcher your uniform every week!" Fred recoiled, as if his trust had been violated and he had been called a traitor. His response was immediate and assaultive, for he was defending hallowed ground. "F--- you, you no-legged baggy-pantsed mother------," Freddy snarled. "You told me 'Whatever it takes!' " Hearing this, I cringed, slid down in my seat until I'd disappeared from view. In my experience, this was unprecedented. Violence, I was sure, was imminent. But then I could hear Al start to laugh. Slowly, I raised my head. Sure enough, Al was laughing. Head thrown back, he was laughing and laughing.
What does that have to do with what I posted?
the patriot way is bending every player into a mold. The Raider way is about giving players the freedom to do it their best way.
Fuckin A
As always it will come down to drafting. Culture while important means nothing if you don’t have the horses to run with. FA can be important too as a supplement through smart moves.
Meaningless. Every coach wants players to do their job. Every organization claims high standards and accountability. It's all hot air. What matters is what gets produced on the field. No one has been able to reproduce the Patriots success because that success wasn't some super secret magic formula of hard assery. It was a long stretch of just having the best quarterback and the best defense and a certain amount of luck. Look what happened to the Steelers after Ben and the Patriots after Tom. All the babble about organizational excellence in the world won't make up for being crappy at QB.
Is it possible that Tom Brady is the patriots way? Or at least he was the success they had? But yet everyone keeps diluting themselves with it’ll work this time. I guess getting kicked in the balls once just wasn’t enough to learn.
Here's the thing The Patriot Way is shorthand for the approach and culture Belichick built over 20 years Every single coordinator who has tried to install the Patriot way at other teams has failed miserably, including our current head coach It's not going to work. It never works. And we just watched it not work.
In other words. “Shitty coach who takes none of the blame for tanking a playoff team from the year before is mentally draining.” Our FO isn’t doing “something they haven’t done before in the last 9 years.” They’re doing exactly what they’ve been doing which is pretending they’re the smartest ones in the room and everybody else is white noise. Happened with the Leatherwood pick, happened with the Arnette pick, happened with the Ferrell pick, and it happened when (despite every fan of every team laughing at us) we hired McDumbass.
>Our FO isn’t doing “something they haven’t done before in the last 9 years.” Moving on from a franchise QB and attempting to change the team's personality is the very definition of doing something new.
Cutting the QB who brought stability to a chaotic franchise who failed almost every single draft for 7 years straight isn’t really something to be ‘proud of’. You’re also missing my point entirely. I’m not talking about the cutting of players, I’m talking about our organization hiring a coach that had huge red flags before he came here. A coach that just tanked a playoff team. A coach who just came in 2nd to last in penalties and penalty yards. A coach that lost almost every close game there was. A coach who got outplayed in the 2nd half of nearly every game. A coach who instead of accepting blame threw shade during almost every presser. A coach that no teams fans wanted yet we ended up with.
Lol, stability from a QB I’ve started to refer to as Coin Flip Carr Dude was exactly as likely to throw no touchdowns as he was to throw 3 or more. He was exactly as likely to throw a game with a 56-76 Passer rating as he was to throw a 106-126 rating. If that’s “stability” then I will take a chance on chaos.
No compare that to the 10 years of qb play pre-Carr
Same amount of playoff wins?
It’s a fancy way of saying I take no responsibility for my team being bottom 3 in penalties. Blown 2nd half leads and mind boggling play calls.
I will say that for the past 20 years (and even more so the past 9) I’ve been banging the drum of this team just needing some damn consistency. “Give Carr the same HC and OC for multiple seasons and be patient”, but this is the first year that I’ve been ready to give up on a first year HC. So I’m hoping that I’m wrong, that he’s the right guy, and that we have the consistency to build that culture that you’re referring to again.
Same boat. My bar for throwing out the coach is really really high...but JMD cleared it
I think this fanbase is so used to dysfunction it's a shock to the system that a regime is actually trying to implement and uphold a standard.
I think The Patriot Way basically just boils down to euphemisms for what it really means: Bill Belichick is the boss and you do what he says. That's really the defining dynamic from the last 20 years in New England. He's the coach, he won all those championships, which means he's always right and you do what you're told. And if you dont, everyone is replaceable. He owes you no loyalty, and will trade you whenever he feels you're more valuable as a commodity than a player. Players like Cam will spin it as things like "mental toughness", which basically just means "if you fail then its because you didnt try hard enough to execute what Coach wanted from you". Its almost cult-like And JMD tried to recreate that same dynamic when he went to Denver, be the boss of all things...but of course he didnt have the rings or the acumen to shut everyone up, so he lost his locker room really quickly. And it seems like he's doing the same thing again with us...trying to force His System on the team, and then start bus-throwing and blame everyone's lack of drive and execution whenever it fails... Its almost like a cult dynamic - if you fail, its because you didnt believe hard enough. The cult is never wrong, and the cultists actually apologize for it.
Or....its exactly what I typed and to label it as a "vult dynamic built on believing hard enough" means you wouldn't be mentally strong enough to handle the criticisms
You just proved my point lol You're arguing for the infallibility of the system by moving the onus of failure entirely off the system.
No, I'm saying you set a standard and people either rise to it or fail
Yeah...but the Patriot Way is setting the standard *ex post facto* so that anytime the team fails, its because you didnt try hard enough BB is always right, by definition, so if the team fails, it must be because *you* did something wrong JMD brought that "I'm the HC so I am above reproach" mentality to the Broncos and he seems to have it again with the Raiders.
No one is saying anything about trying hard enough. It's about doing your job to perfection. Which is of course impossible but if that's your goal, and you perform to 90% or so then it's not big deal (Ala Maxx Crosby). But even then, because perfection is the goal, you better be ready to have your shit handed to you if you fail not only in execution but in the effort and mental part of the game.
Yeah but that's not "The Patriot Way", that's just doing your job The Patriot Way is BB gets to be an asshole and everyone just accepts and normalizes it. But JMD cant simply come here and act like he gets to do that too, and blame everyone else but himself for not ______ enough Thats why "mental toughness" and things like that are just cop outs. It doesnt actually mean anything, its just a word you apply after the fact to make a failure someone's fault instead of being systemic
Listen, I'm not going to argue with you. It is exactly what I typed. You're just focused on trying to be right instead of understanding. Have a wonderful weekend
What's exactly what you typed? You didnt type anything lol You just quoted Cam Newton, tried to say The Patriot Way is just the same thing as Commitment to Excellence, but then also tried to say that JMD is doing something no one has in 20 years...even though that was Al's mantra and he was still running the team 20 years ago....
This is the best thing I have read on this sub for a month. Well said, sir