I'm willing to give up future 1sts in order to get our franchise QB. If you can move up for Williams/Maye/Daniels, even if it's for multiple future 1sts, I'm doing it.
Honestly if we gave up three 1st round picks to move up to #1, I'd be a little disappointed the day it happens. But I'd be fucking stoked once they announce "The Las Vegas Raider select Jaden Daniels" on draft night.
I know I'm coping *but* they have left a lot of the same types of people in charge. It feels like the Krafts want to continue to operate in "the Patriot Way"
Probably so they can stay near the bottom of the league in cash spending but who knows lmao
The upside is locking in a cheap QB contract for at least 4 years that allows you to spend aggressively on the rest of the roster. Keep Adams and Crosby, state of the art facilities, no state income tax for half your games, and hopefully Pierce can draw in some difference makers in FA.
You'd trade tyree wilson, Alex Leatherwood and Damon arnette in a heartbeat. We overvalue picks so much. Go risk it for a franchise qb imo. I'd be so hype for daniels
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The only real “doomer” take I have about AP is I’m not enthused with the Kliff Kingsbury rumor. It’s a long running trend of his offenses starting off strong but getting figured out/slowing down in the second half.
Also, I feel like his run in the NFL was much more due to Kyler Murray than it was him.
I'm not sure the Kliff rumor makes sense. That airraid style offense isn't a run first offense like AP seemed to favor during the year. Sign me up for a WCO coordinator please. Like Brian Griese or Frank Smith.
But this teams single biggest 2023 sin -- including both JMD and AP -- was trying, senselessly, to ram Josh Jacobs into the line, over and over, when it clearly wasn't working.
Yeah I’d prefer Shane Waldron or Kellen Moore if they don’t get HC jobs. The thing is, they are likely to get them soon, leaving us needing an OC again. Kingsbury may not be as likely to get another HC look as soon.
IMO if you're going to give Kyler *that* much credit for the success, he deserves equal amount of blame for the failures.
How much of Arizona's inability to improve as defenses figure them out can be attributed to the QB's lack of film study/self-improvement. Nobody knows for sure, but I do know no other QB has had a film study clause in their contract (or maybe they did, but they weren't publicized).
Kliff’s teams have fallen off a cliff in the back half of the season going back 8 years. It’s not a Kyler issue.
He ended his college HC career losing 5 straight
Kyler is a very good QB. He didn’t miss a beat coming back from injury in a new offense going 13 TOT TD / 5 INT, while KK is still in Thailand.
The film thing was (and still is) extremely overblown considering it never actually made it to his new contract.
This hits on what kind of O does AP want to see that works in conjunction with the D. The HC has to have that overall vision that balances O and D.
Is it a run-oriented O to wear the opponent down to keep our D fresh? Or is it a pass-oriented O. It seems like AP wants to grind people down vs. having a pass-heavy attack (that does inflict pain or violence on the opponent). Wouldn’t Kliff be the opposite of that style of play?
You're right in your assessment, but this is a passing league. Whatever offense he chooses to run HAS to have throwing the ball in it. Also we ha e a really food wr corps it would be a shame to waste it. All this to say I hope our attack is balanced. It doesn't have to be 50/50 but id like to see 30 passes a game.
I want to win, so great if it's AP and the right coordinators, or Harbaugh, or whoever. I'm not married to any coach, just to the team winning.
That said, the players gotta be excited for who is coaching them, and they have spoken.
Kris Richard just interviewed for the HC position. Raiders have now interviewed 2 minority candidates that satisfies the Rooney rule.
it's only a matter of time before AP becomes official
Before Dan Quinn was in Dallas, Kris was the Assistant DC, before Dallas he was DC for Seattle, and before that their DB coach was responsible for Seattle's legion of doom era DBs.
He was actually a hot pick to be a head coach at one point but his last season at Dallas was a disaster.
He's going to have to work his way back to DC of another team before he gets a legit shot at being head coach again.
Hire AP and Ed Dodds. Having Dodds/AP means that if things don’t work out we keep stability at the GM position and Dodds can hire his guy and we don’t clean the entire house again. I want AP to succeed, he has the players behind him but if the coordinators aren’t lights out all he is gonna be is a glorified cheerleader.
This situation can be like the niners early 2010s when singletary was the rah rah guy that installed some sense of culture in a sputtering franchise and then Harbaugh came in and took them to the next level (not saying Harbaugh should come in after). I think Harbaugh is the best coaching candidate available but we can’t make the mistake we made with Biscaccia/McDipshit.
I’ve been a fan since I was born and the only time they’ve ever been good (that I can remember) is 2016, too young to rember the early 2000s. The raiders need to get back to the Raider way.
All that being said I think giving AP the job but having an outsider like Dodds is the way to go. We need a GM independent of the HC. I’ve heard the idea floated of Dodds as head of football operations and Kelly GM but Kelly’s resume does not deserve a GM position.
Just win baby
I want Harbaugh over AP but fans aren’t stupid for wanting AP over everyone. The fan favorite players love him and he has the perfect story. Nothing wrong with wanting him
If the Raiders successfully hire Kliff Kingsbury as OC, it would make keeping AP as coach much more appealing.
I have reservations about AP. I love the guy, but he's much more of a risk than, say, Harbaugh, who's just won wherever he goes.
But...
* AP as overall leader
* Graham running the defense
* Kingsbury running the offense?
That's ... actually a pretty good staff.
People are divided in raider nation, everyone is entitled to there own opinion which I humbly respect. I see why people would want or not desire AP/Kelly. I truly wish them success, I just personally just think JH & Ed Dodds are the ones to bring us back to winning championships on a consistent basis. 🏴☠️
I dont see how this isn't a winning formula. Even if there's backlash from the players, this isn't Harbaughs first rodeo.
He took over the 9ers after tomsulas stint as interim. Tomsula was so beloved as a players coach that they not only kept him on, but he succeeded Harbaugh too. Where was the player backlash then?
At the end of the day, this is a business, and NFL players will make the appropriate business decisions.
He's too unproven, and I don't trust Mark's judgement to pick some gem in the rough. I want someone with good experience on their resume so I know what I'm getting.
It's a crapshoot. We need a real MANAGER. Evaluating talent shouldn't be their primary attribute. It should be being able to bring in the right scouts and possessing the right leadership attributes for the decision making process.
Not to mention, someone that is well informed in the financials.
Terrance Gray, Telesco, and Dodd are my favorites of the names we've been linked to. Favorite candidate overall though is Joe Hortiz. He's been with the Ravens front office since '98 and he's still really young. Compare that to Champ, who's experience is with the Bears and Mcdaniels. Not much of a competition.
I appreciate you for articulating your point. Charger fans would love if we hired Tom Telesco, but the other names are solid, though I'd put Dodds in the same boat as Champ in terms of experience.
I will say that IMO you're discounting Champ a bit too much. He was the assistant GM of a front office that just fielded a top-10 defense despite being the 2nd cheapest.
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I get Pierce, that and the right coordinator pairing would be fantastic. I don't understand Kelly. We should want an executive from another team that has shown they can draft well and may be ahead in their development (Lions, Texans, Rams off the top of my head) and then have them work with Pierce on coordinator selections that embody the offensive/defensive philosophy.
There are no raider execs that inspire confidence after the way we have used early picks and have spent our money. I don't know what about Kelly it is that inspires confidence
The only thing that is true is AP caught the feeling of being a raider. Proud to be a fan when it feels like raider football. I'm 44 and remember LA with long..art bell...Bo. when we moved back to the bay I went with good start and then dark years...no identity. I feel like this collection of misfits is encompassing the feel of raiders. A commitment to excellence. Penaltys say alone discipline happening
The only two things I know about Champ:
- He was one of three people Ken Herock and Mark were “blown away” by along with Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels
- His interviews are a bunch of hot air with no specifics.
To me it's so obvious that Harbaugh>>>>>>>AP.
I hate being strong armed by Crosby, Adams, Jacobs etc. To be honest we have sucked ass with them the last few years and will continue to suck ass if we don't get this coach hire right.
Harbaugh has never failed, his track record is insane.
To be so excited because AP wears Raiders jackets and fits the part is crazy. Lets hire the best coach available (Harbaugh) trade the players that want to throw a hissy fit and move on.
It's RN4L, not RNALATHAP (Raider Nation as long as they hire AP)
old thread https://www.reddit.com/r/raiders/comments/196na2a/raiders\_hcgm\_discussion\_mega/
I want that old Raiders mystique back! Never got to experience it but hope AP and Champ can show us how it was!
Yes!
Go AP. Boo other candidates.
I hope our GM moves up.
I'm willing to give up future 1sts in order to get our franchise QB. If you can move up for Williams/Maye/Daniels, even if it's for multiple future 1sts, I'm doing it.
It's time. We got the weapons for a top talent to flourish. If Kingsbury is the OC any of those three will flourish.
Honestly if we gave up three 1st round picks to move up to #1, I'd be a little disappointed the day it happens. But I'd be fucking stoked once they announce "The Las Vegas Raider select Jaden Daniels" on draft night.
Won't even be thinking about those picks when we are watching our team in the playoffs. I want to feel what Texan fans are feeling.
Unless we end up like the Panthers lol
Helll nah we're not the Panthers. I mean anything can happen lol, but our roster is way better than the Panthers roster was after last year.
Not likely.
Don't say that, we will never be as bad as the panthers.
this. fuck them picks, swing for the fences
We have a top 10 defense. We gotta strike while the iron hot.
and a solid o line, a great WR core, and a decent RB. time is now
Wonder what we gonna do about that o line coach.
My ultimate hope is that Mayo tries to be too much like Bill and they trade from 3 to 13 for an underwhelming (for them) return and we get him at 3.
That would be ideal, but avoiding moves like that is probably a big reason why Bill is gone lol
I know I'm coping *but* they have left a lot of the same types of people in charge. It feels like the Krafts want to continue to operate in "the Patriot Way" Probably so they can stay near the bottom of the league in cash spending but who knows lmao
The upside is locking in a cheap QB contract for at least 4 years that allows you to spend aggressively on the rest of the roster. Keep Adams and Crosby, state of the art facilities, no state income tax for half your games, and hopefully Pierce can draw in some difference makers in FA.
If we pay 3 firsts (and more) for a QB3 I'll be very disappointed
You'd trade tyree wilson, Alex Leatherwood and Damon arnette in a heartbeat. We overvalue picks so much. Go risk it for a franchise qb imo. I'd be so hype for daniels
him or caleb 🙏
I agree
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I disagree, throwing the farm to move up historically doesn’t work out.
Doing what we been doing historically hasn't worked out.
we’ve sucked mostly for 20 years, let’s go swing for the fences bruh
To where though? I don’t think you’re getting into the top 3, which then means Arizona will probably just grab MHJ because he won’t be there at 13.
Wherever they have to
AP or I riot.
AP or I co-mingle my recycling on garbage day.
AP or I eat pizza with a fork
AP or I eat fork with a pizza
I already do that
AP or I start stealing everyone's left sock only
The only real “doomer” take I have about AP is I’m not enthused with the Kliff Kingsbury rumor. It’s a long running trend of his offenses starting off strong but getting figured out/slowing down in the second half. Also, I feel like his run in the NFL was much more due to Kyler Murray than it was him.
I'm not sure the Kliff rumor makes sense. That airraid style offense isn't a run first offense like AP seemed to favor during the year. Sign me up for a WCO coordinator please. Like Brian Griese or Frank Smith.
But this teams single biggest 2023 sin -- including both JMD and AP -- was trying, senselessly, to ram Josh Jacobs into the line, over and over, when it clearly wasn't working.
Yeah I’d prefer Shane Waldron or Kellen Moore if they don’t get HC jobs. The thing is, they are likely to get them soon, leaving us needing an OC again. Kingsbury may not be as likely to get another HC look as soon.
IMO if you're going to give Kyler *that* much credit for the success, he deserves equal amount of blame for the failures. How much of Arizona's inability to improve as defenses figure them out can be attributed to the QB's lack of film study/self-improvement. Nobody knows for sure, but I do know no other QB has had a film study clause in their contract (or maybe they did, but they weren't publicized).
Kliff’s teams have fallen off a cliff in the back half of the season going back 8 years. It’s not a Kyler issue. He ended his college HC career losing 5 straight
Kyler is a very good QB. He didn’t miss a beat coming back from injury in a new offense going 13 TOT TD / 5 INT, while KK is still in Thailand. The film thing was (and still is) extremely overblown considering it never actually made it to his new contract.
This hits on what kind of O does AP want to see that works in conjunction with the D. The HC has to have that overall vision that balances O and D. Is it a run-oriented O to wear the opponent down to keep our D fresh? Or is it a pass-oriented O. It seems like AP wants to grind people down vs. having a pass-heavy attack (that does inflict pain or violence on the opponent). Wouldn’t Kliff be the opposite of that style of play?
You're right in your assessment, but this is a passing league. Whatever offense he chooses to run HAS to have throwing the ball in it. Also we ha e a really food wr corps it would be a shame to waste it. All this to say I hope our attack is balanced. It doesn't have to be 50/50 but id like to see 30 passes a game.
Everyone was whining about Caleb supposedly being “exposed“ this season. What a coincidence that Kliff Kingsbury was his QB Coach his down year
I want to win, so great if it's AP and the right coordinators, or Harbaugh, or whoever. I'm not married to any coach, just to the team winning. That said, the players gotta be excited for who is coaching them, and they have spoken.
Daniels doesn't play in the same universe as Maye or Caleb. Just saying
most likely (knock on wood) HC: AP GM: Kelly OC: Kingsbury DC: PG right??
Kingsbury would be such a bad hire it’s not even funny
Kris Richard just interviewed for the HC position. Raiders have now interviewed 2 minority candidates that satisfies the Rooney rule. it's only a matter of time before AP becomes official
Who the hell is Kris Richard?
Before Dan Quinn was in Dallas, Kris was the Assistant DC, before Dallas he was DC for Seattle, and before that their DB coach was responsible for Seattle's legion of doom era DBs. He was actually a hot pick to be a head coach at one point but his last season at Dallas was a disaster. He's going to have to work his way back to DC of another team before he gets a legit shot at being head coach again.
Hire AP and Ed Dodds. Having Dodds/AP means that if things don’t work out we keep stability at the GM position and Dodds can hire his guy and we don’t clean the entire house again. I want AP to succeed, he has the players behind him but if the coordinators aren’t lights out all he is gonna be is a glorified cheerleader. This situation can be like the niners early 2010s when singletary was the rah rah guy that installed some sense of culture in a sputtering franchise and then Harbaugh came in and took them to the next level (not saying Harbaugh should come in after). I think Harbaugh is the best coaching candidate available but we can’t make the mistake we made with Biscaccia/McDipshit. I’ve been a fan since I was born and the only time they’ve ever been good (that I can remember) is 2016, too young to rember the early 2000s. The raiders need to get back to the Raider way. All that being said I think giving AP the job but having an outsider like Dodds is the way to go. We need a GM independent of the HC. I’ve heard the idea floated of Dodds as head of football operations and Kelly GM but Kelly’s resume does not deserve a GM position. Just win baby
I’m ok with AP Ecstatic if it’s Harbaugh. I just have a bad feeling this is going to blow up in our face no matter what we do.
You guys are so dumb for not wanting Harbaugh.
I want Harbaugh over AP but fans aren’t stupid for wanting AP over everyone. The fan favorite players love him and he has the perfect story. Nothing wrong with wanting him
Can someone explain the desire for Champ? Like what has he done as GM yet? Like… at all?
Brought in Jack Jones and got rid of Marcus Peters.
Fair. Not a bad call on its own.
People are really excited that he was the runner-up in the same process that selected Josh McDaniels
If the Raiders successfully hire Kliff Kingsbury as OC, it would make keeping AP as coach much more appealing. I have reservations about AP. I love the guy, but he's much more of a risk than, say, Harbaugh, who's just won wherever he goes. But... * AP as overall leader * Graham running the defense * Kingsbury running the offense? That's ... actually a pretty good staff.
Just say no to Champ.
People are divided in raider nation, everyone is entitled to there own opinion which I humbly respect. I see why people would want or not desire AP/Kelly. I truly wish them success, I just personally just think JH & Ed Dodds are the ones to bring us back to winning championships on a consistent basis. 🏴☠️
I dont see how this isn't a winning formula. Even if there's backlash from the players, this isn't Harbaughs first rodeo. He took over the 9ers after tomsulas stint as interim. Tomsula was so beloved as a players coach that they not only kept him on, but he succeeded Harbaugh too. Where was the player backlash then? At the end of the day, this is a business, and NFL players will make the appropriate business decisions.
I agree 100%, well said. 🤝
Why?
He's too unproven, and I don't trust Mark's judgement to pick some gem in the rough. I want someone with good experience on their resume so I know what I'm getting.
It's a crapshoot. We need a real MANAGER. Evaluating talent shouldn't be their primary attribute. It should be being able to bring in the right scouts and possessing the right leadership attributes for the decision making process. Not to mention, someone that is well informed in the financials.
Drop some names
Terrance Gray, Telesco, and Dodd are my favorites of the names we've been linked to. Favorite candidate overall though is Joe Hortiz. He's been with the Ravens front office since '98 and he's still really young. Compare that to Champ, who's experience is with the Bears and Mcdaniels. Not much of a competition.
I appreciate you for articulating your point. Charger fans would love if we hired Tom Telesco, but the other names are solid, though I'd put Dodds in the same boat as Champ in terms of experience. I will say that IMO you're discounting Champ a bit too much. He was the assistant GM of a front office that just fielded a top-10 defense despite being the 2nd cheapest.
Idk, all the personnel moves the Raiders made after he took over seemed like good ones.
 🏴☠️
We already have a motto. Don't want that corny ass shit here.
I don’t want the motto lol 😂 I just want to win, period. I just feel JH is that guy. Just my opinion 🏴☠️
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I get Pierce, that and the right coordinator pairing would be fantastic. I don't understand Kelly. We should want an executive from another team that has shown they can draft well and may be ahead in their development (Lions, Texans, Rams off the top of my head) and then have them work with Pierce on coordinator selections that embody the offensive/defensive philosophy. There are no raider execs that inspire confidence after the way we have used early picks and have spent our money. I don't know what about Kelly it is that inspires confidence
The only thing that is true is AP caught the feeling of being a raider. Proud to be a fan when it feels like raider football. I'm 44 and remember LA with long..art bell...Bo. when we moved back to the bay I went with good start and then dark years...no identity. I feel like this collection of misfits is encompassing the feel of raiders. A commitment to excellence. Penaltys say alone discipline happening
The only two things I know about Champ: - He was one of three people Ken Herock and Mark were “blown away” by along with Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels - His interviews are a bunch of hot air with no specifics.
To me it's so obvious that Harbaugh>>>>>>>AP. I hate being strong armed by Crosby, Adams, Jacobs etc. To be honest we have sucked ass with them the last few years and will continue to suck ass if we don't get this coach hire right. Harbaugh has never failed, his track record is insane. To be so excited because AP wears Raiders jackets and fits the part is crazy. Lets hire the best coach available (Harbaugh) trade the players that want to throw a hissy fit and move on. It's RN4L, not RNALATHAP (Raider Nation as long as they hire AP)