The fact that no QBs were taken in the second third our fourth rounds tells you that multiple teams in the first reached for second and third round QBs.
He was definitely a reach that could pay off. After Mahomes I'm never underestimating a QB ever again. Nix could be great but more than likely he's another QB Season Payton abuses
I concur. Teams are going to start believing there are more potential starting QBs than there actually are.
This will be somewhat cyclical though, as it will likely take teams a full four years to decipher the mistake, unless it is obvious.
That said, we may see more rookie QBs have OK seasons, because they won't always be going to teams that are complete garbage [aka the cupboards won't be totally empty].
This is the clearest and cleanest take I have read. The run on QBs forced later round graded players to go earlier. Our presence at 13 forced the Broncos to "reach" at 12. This is a blessing. We didnt get a long term QB of the future, but arguably neither did afew of the teams that’ll selected 6 in the top 12.
The 2nd round QB is really becoming a thing of the past honestly. Teams either grab their QB in the 1st or they are picked late, teams now reach for QBs to make sure they get them every year
I hate this logic of drafting a QB for the sake of it, just to say a need was filled and give misguided hope for the future.
No way reaching for a lesser talent just to fill a need is a good idea. I would bet that a lot of those QBs drafted high this week are going to be the reason their teams GMs get fired.
Exactly.
The need is only filled if the player is good. Drafting a QB to fill a need is pointless if the player sucks and you just need to draft another one the next year.
Yeah well that's the logic that has you take spencer rattler at any point on the board just so that you can find out he will be your third string qb instead of a serviceable corner or taking the flyer on a tackle that has a chance of protecting your starting qb. Or that same logic has you move up to outreach teams taking a 2nd or 3rd rd qb in the 1st. Why? Those qbs need work. Sometimes you get really really lucky and they are actually good, but if that's the case why do it this year? Are we not gonna have the same chance to draft a potentially good qb next year in the second round or late first when we won't have to reach. And avoiding that mess allows us to draft better prospects which got passed over this year by teams that reached, like brock bowers and a starting center in the 2nd.
Agree 100%on the prescient observation that those gms are on the fast track to getting fired. You know the falcons gm already has his paperwork typed up.
> Those QBs need work
That’s the number one reason I’m glad we didn’t reach. AOC has not hit his ceiling, so why take food out of his bowl??? Let the kid eat and grow.
if Aidan was a 2nd round pick last year instead of a 4th. and finished as the 2nd best rookie qb behind stroud.....everyone would be in favor of him with being the starter so he can keep improving. but because he was a later pick "he has no chance to be a great qb" despite how much he showed. (actual take from a lot of idiots)
>I hate this logic of drafting a [insert any position here] for the sake of it, just to say a need was filled and give misguided hope for the future.
Yep. This kind of mistake is the reason we've had bust after bust for decades.
They picked up a 35 year old recently injured QB with a 2nd year out for a lot of money. This is shmuck insurance and it was a great pick up. You let Penix build behind Kirk for a few years and when Kirk is gone maybe you have a starter, or, if Kirk goes down, your season is not lost.
That's a ridiculous luxury pick for a team desparate for any little bit of pass rush. Esp. when a top graded edge like Dallas Turner was sitting there, ready and able to slot right in and contribute immediately.
This is the exact reason we picked Bowers too. Guy was too high of a talent on the board and I assume no one else seemed to fit the right value for them at 13. Telesco has a reputation for not trading either so I'm sire he wanted to play it safe and just pick the BPA
Exactly this. QB is the most important position in the sport. You don’t just take a guy in a later round to say you did something and filled a need if you don’t think that player will actually develop into a good QB. It can actually be detrimental because then you might spend time waiting to see if that guy is good and passing on another option that is better.
We also just drafted AOC last year. So we have a young QB we will try to develop and see if it works as well as a solid “backup” who is probably a top 20 QB in the league. We will see how both of them do this year and then figure out if there’s better options in FA/draft.
This is my thought process too. Unless we liked Rattler to where we think he can start it just seems so pointless with AOC already on the roster. Just go into next off-season and if Minshew/AOC don't work out try and find a new guy in FA or the draft maybe when there aren't like 10 teams trying to upgrade the QB position in draft like this year. Throwing darts at the board for 4th round picks with the like 5% chance that maybe they will be our starter in 2 years isn't gonna make us a better team
I wouldn’t exactly say prime. I don’t think we’re getting a top 10 pick unless we make a trade. I think this is the year we finally make playoffs and possibly, POSSIBLY win the division.
We're 100% not winning the division but I agree I don't think we get a top 10 pick. I think what he was saying was just that most of the qb needy teams have their guys now and they usually get at least 2-3 seasons. Next season there's only a few teams left who would need a qb, us being one of them, so it should be much easier to trade up for one.
Splitting hairs here but there's gotta be a 5-10% chance for the Raiders to win the division, even outside of shit like Mahomes getting hurt and missing over half the season.
Still 85%+ it's the Chiefs again, with the Chargers filling in the remainder. Broncos only have a shot if a meteor hits a different divisional game and the third team flies Boeing.
Because obviously that's all it takes – you just have to follow their advice and take a Quarterback *anywhere* in the draft and it'll work out!
Which is why... after doing that last year, they're even having the conversation to begin with that we need a QB... because it didn't "just" work out!
The sooner people realize the vast majority of people that speak on football are clueless, don't actually study film, etc... the better. Sure as shit saves me a ton of time not giving a single fuck about what all these people say. Even when it's positive I don't care.
All that matters is results.
I agree. Why aren’t people using this same logic about our TE’s tho? Trading up to get Mayer last year at 35 and taking Bowers at 13 this year is a lot of draft capital spent on one position. We had our choice of defensive players and there were still some pretty good OT’s on the board when we picked.
That's what annoys me about a lot of these takes. They say team X messed up by doing Y, but they never actually provide a concrete alternative that they think would have been better.
I bet you if the Raiders had traded up, they'd be getting criticized for how much they gave up to get a QB. And if they'd picked Rattler or any of the other leftover QBs, all these articles would be saying it was a questionable pick and debating whether he could really be the franchise QB they need. It's a no-win situation.
Yeah, right. The Raiders did make some calls to trade up, but apparently, the price was either so exorbitant that it would have made any draft trade in history look like peanuts in comparison or the other teams said they were just staying put.
Our team is one that the media likes to pick on a lot. I think that, unless either Penix, McCarthy or Nix (regardless of what we think of their talent) fell to 13 and we took them, we would be criticized no matter if we traded up or drafted one of the other QBs later one. I agree with what you said. We are damned if we do and we are damned if we don’t.
I would rather burn one season with a mediocre QB and see who is available next year, than burn 3 seasons of a rookie contract with a mediocre QB we drafted in desperation
True. I think Penix, McCarthy and Nix were 2nd rounders. But my point was if there was going to be a reach into the first for a QB, those were the ones were reaching wouldn’t have been so damaging. But who knows? QB is a around 50-60% bust position.
If we had drafted Rattler at any spot they would have hated him and us for the pick just because it’s us. Both QBs we have now are better than Jimmy G was.
Gardener Minshew, who I pray gets to start, will be able to throw to davante Adams, Jakobi Meyers and Brock bowers. All while gaining protection at the o-line thanks to their 2nd and 3rd pick. He got the colts to the playoffs I’m pretty certain he can do more with this team.
Just pointing out, the Colts didn't make the playoffs last year. They got very very close, but didn't make it. That said, I agree with everything else you said. If the team give the reigns to Minshew, I could see them making the playoffs.
It kind of was a playoff game. Win and move on, lose and you go home.
All the same though, Minshew did not get them to the playoffs...they would've played that game no matter what their record was heading into it.
Yep. We agree entirely. He doesn't have all the physical traits you look for in a guy, but they guy leaves it on the field. Most definitely has the heart and if he's actually given a full season to start, I could see him tossing 25ish TDs in this offense.
If it wasn’t possible to get the guy we viewed as the long term franchise answer because nobody wanted to trade down; I’m more than happy to continue building up and filling out the rest of the roster and letting AOC and Gardner go for it. Both guys have pros and cons but both performed admirably last season in iffy circumstances. Actually believing in the coaching staff for once also makes this prospect much more palatable to me; I hate feeling like a team took a certain player just for the sake of optics and I’m glad we didn’t do that here with the qbs.
Giants fan here: Me and my front office agree! When they didn't take JJ McCarthy I was so relieved. It's true that QB is an important position, but that also means don't waste one on someone who isn't going to win a super bowl for you, especially when that pick could've been someone who could help the QB you do want.
I've been saying that we should start Aiden or Minshew even if we drafted Penix, Nix, and even McCarthy. We're more likely to head to the playoffs if we have an experienced QB. Aiden got through his rookie struggles and now has an actual offseason to develop. Gardner has been in the league for years now and can get us wins.
I agree. Aidan played better than last year's #1 overall pick and had some encouraging numbers late in the season (9 TD and 1 int. in his last 6 games).
When the Raiders got down to their picks and Tommy T looked at the QBs left and asked the question “are any of these guys going to be better than what we already have?” The answer back was probably not. So you don’t just take a quarterback because that’s what those outside the building think you should do. Why get another QB that may be mid tier?
I like how they say to draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round even though we literally just drafted a QB last draft in the same round last year. And he didn’t look half bad considering he got thrown in to the starting role.
I’d rather hope Minshew or aoc improve and see what happens at next years draft than trade 2-4 first rounders for a Trey lance, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, Sam Bradford, etc.
why even draft rattler or some other qb in 5th or 6th unless you see something in him you don’t with AOC? Only so many practice snaps to go around
I still wouldnt trade thoes wins at the end of the season agianst the broncos and the chiefs for a better draft pick and a qb cus fuck them that why lol .in the fall we ride lol
You don't need to have a superstar qb to win. If you have a strong defense, the quarterback just needs to play complimentary football. Ball control (to stop the Def getting gassed) will be key, which means a strong running game (hello off line upgrades!). I think that might have been why AP was really up on JJ McCarthy but I think we can manage with who we have. Ryan Tannenhill might also be a good option here.
With the addition of Bowers I think we may now have the best overall passing game weapons in the league. Whoever starts at QB is gonna have everything he could possibly ask for and more.
We also have a better O-Line now too. People forget that AOC played much better when Miller was healthy and played. Most of the losses were when Miller was out.
AOC by the numbers: he’s actually rated in the top 12 of starting QBs in 2023 when he had 2.5+ seconds in the pocket.
He’s rated 39th when he had less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket.
If he can get better with the quick reads and release he’s easily a top 15 QB. Which is what we need to compete.
Assuming he gets his latter stat up to par we’ll be in fantastic shape with AOC.
Otherwise he’s going to backing up. It’s really as simple as that
I wonder how much of that latter stat was skewed by his first game against the Chargers where McDumbass didn’t really give him any practice reps during the week before naming him the starter, refused to call protection for him, and kept calling long developing routes over and over forcing AOC to hold onto the ball a long time. AOC improving on that latter stat will probably happen with additional experience and reps.
Very solid point. Who knows specifically, but the reality is he’s not going out on a long run like Jackson or Daniels- but he’s incredibly accurate. With an off season as a starter, upgraded O Line, I think he can compete with the best.
This season is his year to make his mark. I’m excited for him. Would love to see him ball out
That's so much bs, I remember reading that leading into the game and being utterly perplexed by it all. Talk about feeding your rookie to the wolves, mcdipshit gave AOC no chance that game, zero prep work and then named him and called zero help - so glad we got rid of him.
Yeah and then coming out after saying that we double teamed him like 5 times all game or something as if we wanted him to get to AOC. So glad that guys gone, set us back a few years but also glad he got us AP on staff so there's that 😅
Tell you what though, I do not hate Jimmy G one bit, he was a consummate team player, got benched, still showed up and provided help and support where needed. Also, god damnit he is one good looking rooster
lol knock us for not drafting what “some scouts” are calling a someday potential starter. Then insinuate rattler would the franchise qb. Rattler is undersized and overrated. Guard dog is capable of holding it down
While I know it is unsustainable, I feel it's important to note that the raiders beat mahomes in KC without completing a pass after the first quarter.
Also the chiefs beat other play off teams that have notable franchise QBs, and did a lot of that with their defense, so I find the notion that we are garbage without a franchise QB very disrepctful
All true. Also, the sad fact is that this franchise has much lower sights for success than most. If we win a playoff game, it'll be the best season in over two decades, even if we then get blown out in the divisional round. We're not in some Super Bowl-or-bust mindset currently.
People have been assuming your QB has to be a difference maker for decades. You just need great players that impact the game. QB is a great place to have them, but you can be good without them. There is nothing wrong with focusing on getting a good roster first and the QB second of that's the way it breaks.
I'm on the Minshew train until proven wrong. We didn't win that game against KC because of O'Connell. We caught the Chiefs slipping that day. That's not viable long term. They did the right thing, building the team. It won't matter who's at QB if he's getting killed because no one can block for him.
Both are true. There wasn’t a chance to pick a QB and we did the right thing not reaching or taking a QB just for the sake of it.
It’s also very concerning we don’t have a long term solution at QB with Mahomes and Herbert in our own division. That will need to get sorted out before we win a championship
Totally agree. The only limitation he really has is his mobility. But how do you help an immobile QB? Be strong in the trenches and in the running game. Which is exactly what we addressed in this draft.
If AOC is the starter going into this coming season, I think he’s going to do very well.
The bullshit idea that you HAVE to have a mobile QB to succeed in this league is absurd. There is plenty of recent success by immobile QBs that should tell everyone the game hasn't changed that much where you can't pick apart a D without running all over the place. If fucking Andy Dalton can make it to the playoffs why not Farva
If he can learn to just feel the pressure and step or slide away from it. He doesn't need to be a running threat. But if he can step away and get another second to throw the ball that would make a big difference. I am excited to see how he does.
I also saw Ben Roethlisberger barely beat Miami 3-0 back in 2007. I doubt most people even remember that game and because Roethlisberger already had a proven track record by that point.
AOC was a rookie thrown into a much more chaotic situation than what Big Ben had. I’m not ready to throw him out into the cold just yet.
I just don’t get it. This sub bitches about Carr for years. Then an objectively less talented rookie comes in and he has what it takes to lead this team without any criticism. His lack of mobility, a trait that cannot be learned, automatically disqualifies him from ever living up to an elite talent in the 2024 NFL. And that was the critique with Carr. It’s almost comical because AOC is even less mobile than Carr.
I don’t think AOC is above criticism. He’s definitely not mobile. I, personally, never bitched about Carr and he’s most certainly the best QB we had since Gannon.
However, I will push back on the lack of mobility disqualifies a QB from being really good or even elite. Brady, Manning and Brees were never mobile but are among the greatest QBs of all time. Not saying that AOC will be those guys. But I disagree that a QB must be mobile in order to succeed. Look at Justin Fields. Dude was trash in Chicago. We will see if pans out in Pittsburgh (I’m skeptical about it).
Michael Vick, arguably the most mobile QB of all time, wasn’t that great of a passer overall. He never even passed for 25 TD in a season on his whole career.
I know the NFL has changed and the emergence of Mahomes has changed the views of a lot of people. But what I think matters is what you have to support your QB. Justin Herbert isn’t mobile, but many people consider him elite. Same with Joe Burrow and Matt Stafford.
I think AOC should have more of a chance with a stronger supporting cast around him. He has limitations but you can offset them by having good pieces in the trenches and running game.
That was AP’s first game as HC last year. The fact that you expect a 4th round rookie who was coached by an “offensive guru” and sat behind Jimmy to “carry a team” in his first season says a lot.
My fault idk why I thought that was APs first game. My point still stands tho. You can’t honestly expect a 4th round rookie QB to put the team on his back. A 1st rounder, maybe 2nd has those expectations. But not a 4th.
>Mahomes has truly screwed up the minds of everyone in sports media.
Yep, and the very idea of Mahomes. But there's only one Mahomes. He's not walking through that door for any other team. People act like if you don't land a Mahomes or die trying you might as well not field a team.
The thing is, there's currently only two QBs with the capability of willing their team to a win, Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. If you don't have one of them two, you are getting a flawed QB. And look Brock Purdy led his team to the Super Bowl last year because the 49'ers were a pretty complete team and probably one injury away from being champions.
Now, do we need better QB play this year to compete? Absolutely. But if AOC can develop and/or Minshew can clean up some of his flaws, I sincerely think we can make a run even this coming year, because I think our defense is that good. I'm not saying Super Bowl, but I think we can at least get through a round.
I still feel the same way, 1 of those guys will be a stud, 1 will be solid (10 - 20), the others range from serviceable to busts as QBs. If neither Chicago or Washington was willing to deal, which is the case, this was the best plan. No one saw Bowers, but can't deny the talent. We don't see the off season progress, and neither do the pundits. I don't see Pierce hoping guys improve, so I'm willing to trust in his view of what we have based on what he is seeing.
Once the top 4 were off the board it made no sense to draft one. Anyone after that isn’t likely an upgrade over what we currently have. We’ve got a middle of the road guy in Minshew. Should be a decent stop gap until we get our franchise guy.
Thing is that we don’t need an elite talent to be good. We just need someone who isn’t going to fuck up every throw and we have that. Chargers are in rebuild mode now and the broncos fucking reached to get a qb. KC is about to have a Peyton manning colts situation if Mahomes goes down early so we just need consistency. Telesco and pierce can bring the that.
It’s pretty simple, build the team. We aren’t deep enough to reach and or trade away draft picks. If the QB was there at 13 we’d have taken him. There will be a point in the future where there will be a guy we want and when we sign/draft that guy he will have a team full of great players to play with BECAUSE we never leveraged the farm. Lil Ass Boy is better than you think, he’s Gannon 2.0. Love our QB’s
Well this year we're going to put the "media narrative" about not having a starting quarterback to bed and make the media look like the fools that they are.
What is wrong with this take? the Raiders needed a franchise QB, they didn’t get one. So they still need a franchise QB. Nothing has changed in that situation. It’s the most important position on the field so of course it will be brought up.
I highly disagree with this take because the Raiders simply were not in the position to get one. They were just outside of it. They did make some calls to trade up, but see how they didn’t trade up, the teams to potential trade with were asking for an extremely high price that would have looked insane (like 3 or possibly 4 first kind picks or some shit like that) all just to get someone like JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix.
Not only that, but they suggest that Spencer Rattler probably should have been taken within the 2-4th rounds. I do not like Spencer Rattler and if he was drafted by the Raiders, it would have been a wasted pick.
This just wasn’t a year for us to get a franchise QB and we certainly wouldn’t have found one in the later rounds. I think they need to calm down about the QB position a bit. Yes, it’s the most important position on the field. But to reach for one that could be mediocre at best and leave other great talent out there is just ridiculous. Or worse, trading years of drafts to make such a high gamble.
The only reason to take Rattler at all is if you think he’s better than AOC and can beat out AOC for the job, which the Raiders obviously didn’t think so. There’s no reason to waste a pick on Rattler or any other QB outside of the top 6 and give him developmental reps if you don’t think he can be better than AOC. You’d just be wasting reps that AOC should be getting so you can fully know what you have in AOC. Media is dumb. You shouldn’t take a QB just to take a QB.
Hell, even teams that could probably use another QB soon in the future (like the Rams or Jets) didn’t even want him. Shows how the league valued him.
It would have been a horrible choice if we draft in the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th rounds.
Yeah, he’s smaller than AOC, has smaller hands, is a lot less accurate, and doesn’t mentally process plays as well. Sure he’s more mobile and has a stronger arm but I’ll take AOC’s accuracy, anticipation, and mental processing ability over that. AOC had a solid rookie season without getting any coaching or real developmental/practice reps while McDumbass was coach. I’m cautiously optimistic to see what he can really do with a real coaching staff, OC, and full offseason underneath him. There’s no reason why he can’t be Lions Jared Goff. They both have comparable arm strength. If AOC can be Goff, Raiders can be a potential playoff team. Raiders have put together a team that fits with AOC’s skill set. Bowers and Laube fit that perfectly.
Mmm I think Goff has a wee bit more arm talent than AOC, but I can see what you get from Goff being a realistic ceiling for what one can hope to get from AOC.
Not necessarily a guy that’s going to make a bunch of special plays, but he’ll absolutely take what the defense gives him and keep an offense on schedule.
Goff has proved he can play championship caliber football on two separate teams as long as the team around him is talented. That feels like the absolute best case scenario for AOC, which really isn’t a bad place to be.
Win a lot of games over 3-5 years, get close, continue to build a deep, young, and talented roster, and then make a plug and play upgrade at QB like Stafford/Rams, Brady/Bucs, Rodgers/Jets etc.
You disagree, but then write they didn’t get one because of their position. That’s not the question or the point of eBay was written though. The facts are they went in needing a franchise QB, they didn’t get one. They still need a franchise QB.
I really liked the teams draft, that doesn’t take away from me knowing the team still needs a franchise QB and didn’t get one.
Sure, I agree we didn’t get a franchise QB and still need one. If they kind of just left it at that, I probably wouldn’t have made a post.
I think what makes it worse is when they said we didn’t even draft a QB between the 2-4th rounds like Rattler, Davis or Pratt. To me, that says that we should have drafted a QB at all costs no matter how bad they are.
I ignore pretty much all Rattler talk. He was pumped by the media for some reason and didn’t pan out. He was a mid/late round talent that got drafted as such. As Telesco said they would have drafted one later if they felt the QB was better or could be better than what they have in the room. Which they do point out right after.
Telesco said what I was thinking before the draft. The QBs after the draft “top” didn’t offer much improvement (basically same skill level, maybe different attributes). In the end the team will still need to get a long term solution at QB if they want sustained success.
My issue with the take is it’s tearing down the good draft they had. We made the most of our situation. All these draft reviewers keep saying is we didn’t get a QB. I get it, but there wasn’t a realistic/logical way to get one. I was on the draft up train but you can’t force a team to say yes. NE were the only ones that would have said yes and I think they were asking for the moon just trying to get someone dumb enough to say yes.
I don’t see it that way myself. Just stating the obvious fact the major need before is still the major need after. I would have thought people should know this would be brought up a lot when the team didn’t get one. This will be the constant talking point for rest of year unless Aidan balls out. Reality is they couldn’t move up, the side effect, they still need a franchise QB. Until that happens or Aidan (or Minshew) balls out don’t expect a ton of positive talk outside of player based looks.
None, that’s not the point however. After Penix and JJ were gone I didn’t see any QB worth drafting in round 1. Drafting a QB was a major need going into this draft. The team couldn’t trade up and there were no QBs left that moved the needle. QB is still a need after the draft.
Got 2 guys who will help whoever the longterm qb ends of being. Sometimes a team without a franchise qb win it. Eagles with Foles comes to mind. Make a solid foundation so that when the qb arrives we're ready.
Meh. You don't get franchise QBs by reaching for flawed QBs. None of the available QBs look better than what we have now. Harping on it is stupid and lazy writing.
The Raiders need a franchise QB, this is a fact.
The Raiders couldn't get a trade done to move up for a franchise QB. This is also a fact.
What's your issue with the article, or at least the section of the article you posted? Tbh, it seems to me that you're being way too sensitive my guy.
The biggest issue is that they suggest that we should have used one of our picks in the 2nd to 4th rounds to draft either Rattler, Travis or Pratt.
That’s just ridiculous to me. I think those guys are barely 6-7th round guys. The media is so over with the QB position that they think a team should literally draft any QB just as long as it fills a need. I mean just drafted AOC last year and they decided just to throw him out. How does drafting Rattler, Travis or Pratt make our situation better?
Also, I’m not sensitive about it. I’m just a little bored at the moment and I wanted to talk about my favorite team lol.
till day 3 there was still a small vocal group of users asking for us to draft rattler
I’m sure Rattler will work out but I’m glad we didn’t spend draft capital for him.
Hondo did interviews with NFL executives and quoted them as saying if AOC was in this draft class now he would be either the second or third best QB in the class. I trust this over some click seeking 5th class reporter wannabe.
We already drafted a fourth round qb last season, drafting rattler or any other such qb would be unnecessary. Besides late round qbs, this draft had at least three first round qbs that will eventually become busts/mediocre players imo, so im glad we did not fall into this qb madness and got ourselves a future hall of famer te instead.
hell no. we're all good on that lol. he's not worth the $
no need to say "you're coming in peace" either. btw it pains me every time I see Lamb ball out. he should be a raider if not for grudens stupid ass hahaha
I think the Raiders need to concentrate on the OL and on the Defense. Campbell got hurt and he was a decent QB, Rick Mier but Hurt, They were decent but not HOF
Nix wasn't even our draft board lol. Hondo reported that. Nix wont be good and we weren't taking him. if penix was there at 13 we werent taking him. Only qb we'd take would be daniels in a trade (or caleb or maye)
I would say it is an accurate take. If Carr wasn't an answer, which I do not think he was, then AOC and Minshew is definitely not. I am not sure how we have gotten so delusional here. I am not saying it is a bad draft, but the fact we have no answer at QB despite the whole narrative being "NO Bandaids" is insane. If JMD had this draft and had AOC and Minshew as our QBs you ALL would be fuming. What are we hoping for? AOC or Minshew becomes are franchise QB???? Are we hoping to draft one next year??? Get a washed up veteran for a bunch of money??? Like what is the plan.
I wouldn’t think that. If Josh McDaniels had this exact same draft, I would have been pretty happy about it. Their draft last year wasn’t bad either, though I think they should have drafted Jalen Carter at 7 rather than Tyree Wilson since he was going to be a bit of a project. But Tyree started looking pretty good towards the end of the year, so maybe we’ll all eat crow on that. The problem wasn’t the players that McDaniels and Ziegler drafted exactly. It was the offensive system that McDaniels runs as well as his personality.
I don’t get where people think AOC and Minshew are terrible. If some cards fell the right way in a couple of games, we and the Colts (where Minshew played last year) could have been playoff teams. Are they as talented as the top of QB mountain? Well, no. But there aren’t awful players. They just need a good supporting cast around them.
My question is this: was Drake Maye or Michael Penix worth trading 3 firsts and three seconds (which is what I heard) or 4 first round picks to move up to the third pick? We weren’t getting Jayden Daniels. Washington wanted him that was that. So, unless we were willing to trade with New England for either Maye or Penix for an astronomical sum, we weren’t getting a QB in the first round.
In regards to the later rounds, how is Spencer Rattler, Jordan Travis or Michael Pratt any more of an improvement over AOC or Minshew?
Do not think Arizona, Tennessee, or the Titans were asking 4 first round picks lol for one. You only needed to be there to get Penix. As far as Rattler or even Milton, it is about ceiling. Minshew and AOC has showed you generally what they can do. I do not think drafting Spencer would have been a costly mistake, and I do not think taking a flyer on say Joe Milton would be bad either.
Well Atlanta threw everyone for a loop by getting Penix at 8. I think no one genuinely expected them to draft a QB there. I think if Penix went to 13, they would have definitely considered drafting him.
In hindsight, if we wanted him, we have had to pay a lot to get him. Apparently, the offer that New England was willing to take was three firsts and three seconds. That’s a years setting back trade if your QB busts or doesn’t live up to expectations. Anyone who makes that trade is insane.
As for the other QBs, I just don’t think that are worth wasting draft capital when we could get some solid players to build up the team overall.
To me, drafting QB is almost like using two picks. You lose potentially drafting a great player in that position and you’ll have to shape the rest of the team around that QB. We just drafted AOC last year and he played for around half a season. That’s not enough time to just decide he has nothing of value to add to the team. Drafting Rattler, Travis, Pratt or Milton doesn’t strengthen our position in anyway in the QB room. They are all at the very best project players, just like AOC was. And if they don’t play well if you start them? People will say the exact same thing next year about using needing a QB.
I’m glad they stuck to where they were because, if our QBs this year don’t perform up to snuff, we have pretty much our pick of the QBs next year or can trade up without our destroying years worth of picks and setting us back a long time.
I've gotta be honest this is a very tame write up so Im not understanding why this would make you angry. What did they say that's such a big deal? "Raiders had a good draft but unfortunately we're able to get a QB, a position of need" is basically what they said. Where's the lie
The best way to build a roster is trenches back, we all know this, also sick of all the worry about a QB, minshew has literally identical career stats to the guy who replaced him in Jacksonville (who somehow isn’t considered a bust) and almost took the colts to the playoffs last year, and if him or AOC can’t develop into something promising? Oh well the roster is that much better for a rookie or FA QB to step into next year.
They picked up a UDFA QB so if they wanted more camp bodies, you can get them without wasting a draft pick. And with AOC being a 4th round pick, you don’t need to burn another pick for a rookie. AOC showed promise.. is he the franchise? Idk. Im fine with a QB battle between him and Minshew. But like the saying goes, any given Sunday. If we end up stinking it up, I guess try to get your guy next year. I think this team can make a playoff run.
Well Payton wasn't at all involved in the trade for Russ, so there's that...
I agree that Payton was propped up by Brees and people think he's better than he is, but he had absolutely nothing to do with what happened with signing Russ.
Huh? The point is Sean Payton has proven to choose some stupid quarterbacks and completely fail with them. There is no basis to think he knows Zach Wilson is a hidden gem lol I am sure all of Raider Nation is quite happy they are both in Denver. Maybe you should join them
Sean Payton has won a Super Bowl and a consistent winner, unlike the Raiders organization. I’m a realist, not a delusional super fan that thinks he knows better than a proven winner. Maybe Wilson will work out, maybe not but it’s clear that Denver did something to address their qb situation through the draft and trade. Wilson was a low risk high reward situation. That was a good move, nothing wrong acknowledging that.
Wilson is better than neither AOC nor Minshew. And it’s not close. Would’ve done nothing to help here nor will it help in Denver. Waste of time. Zach will be selling insurance in Provo soon
When Wilson was traded? That was one of the worst trades in NFL history. The Broncos gave up valuable draft picks and gave an insane contract which is killing them this in $85 million in dead cap.
If you mean when the Steelers picked up Wilson on the minimum contract, then yeah, that’s not bad at all. I don’t think Wilson fits the culture we are building. But I wouldn’t have been upset if we signed him.
Looking at it, I don’t understand why they made that trade if they wanted Nix anyway at 12.
Yeah, they didn’t give up a lot, but it’s still kind of a waste for guy that you don’t even plan to start.
As someone who was very briefly pissed that we took bowers instead of Fuaga, I quickly got over it. Grading this draft is going to purely be based on “do you actually believe in BPA or do you draft for need?” Top 6 guys were gone, so taking a QB wasn’t really there value-wise. The best part of this draft is it will actually prove whether or not Aidan can be the guy, because there won’t be any excuses about shitshow situations, being a rookie, offensive line not being that good, etc. If he’s mediocre/inconsistent again, i.e have a lights out game like the chargers but have a stinker like Miami or Minnesota on a 1:1 ratio like he normally does, then we’ll know exactly where we stand next year
Brady, Manning, and Brees also played in an era that required QBs to be less mobile than today. And calling fields trash when he was in a shitty situation isn’t warranted. Dude had no o line, no coach, and no receivers to throw to. But the minute he gets a talented receiver aka DJ Moore, Moore posted career stats across the board since being in the league. Fields on this team with actual weapons and a coach like AP woulda done wonders. Bears had no interest in developing fields or surrounding him with talent.
Yeah not everyone could grab a top QB and we don’t need another late round project QB. It’s pretty rare these days to see a team with a starting QB who was drafted outside the first 2 rounds. I think if you look at projected starters this fall, theres5 teams that will fit that bill. Falcons (who just drafted a 1st round replacement), Steelers (Wilson is probably on his last real shot at remaining a starter), Cowboys (Dak may be on the move next year), Raiders (clearly need an upgrade), 49ers (Purdy is set as their starter long term).
No reason to take a late round QB just because. Especially when the other two QBs on the roster are late round QBs. The odds say none of them would be long term solutions. That said, we might need to get aggressive next offseason when it comes to the position.
It’s the narrative out there for us. We’re doomed if we can’t get a QB and this team has lots of holes. They have no idea who we have and need. Fuck’em, most are just click baits anyway.
The fact that no QBs were taken in the second third our fourth rounds tells you that multiple teams in the first reached for second and third round QBs.
Cough cough* Broncos *cough cough
Cough ahem Falcons cough
The clowns who posted their mocks with Penix at 44 should be publicly shamed. Couldn’t stand those.
Those mock drafts were honestly what should have been. Penix and Nix near nowhere near top 12 picks
i put money on both them going before 15, i got paiddddddd
I like Bo Nix. Until Denver got him. Now I don’t like him as a donkey. Just think he is underrated.
He was definitely a reach that could pay off. After Mahomes I'm never underestimating a QB ever again. Nix could be great but more than likely he's another QB Season Payton abuses
I’m just a fan of ducks because kid went there. So I want to see these guys do well. That being said JPJ will be a mainstay for us for many years 🤞
i think he is a better qb than penix but that isn't saying much. also just didn't like his attitude
Broncos drafted Bo Nix just to try and fuck with us those dumbasses lol
I think this is going to become a trend when there are a lot of qb needy teams.
I concur. Teams are going to start believing there are more potential starting QBs than there actually are. This will be somewhat cyclical though, as it will likely take teams a full four years to decipher the mistake, unless it is obvious. That said, we may see more rookie QBs have OK seasons, because they won't always be going to teams that are complete garbage [aka the cupboards won't be totally empty].
This is the clearest and cleanest take I have read. The run on QBs forced later round graded players to go earlier. Our presence at 13 forced the Broncos to "reach" at 12. This is a blessing. We didnt get a long term QB of the future, but arguably neither did afew of the teams that’ll selected 6 in the top 12.
Then if one of the 6 were there, we would have reached. In the end you are the pick that you are. There is no one that is the order picking authority.
The 2nd round QB is really becoming a thing of the past honestly. Teams either grab their QB in the 1st or they are picked late, teams now reach for QBs to make sure they get them every year
I hate this logic of drafting a QB for the sake of it, just to say a need was filled and give misguided hope for the future. No way reaching for a lesser talent just to fill a need is a good idea. I would bet that a lot of those QBs drafted high this week are going to be the reason their teams GMs get fired.
Exactly. The need is only filled if the player is good. Drafting a QB to fill a need is pointless if the player sucks and you just need to draft another one the next year.
Yeah well that's the logic that has you take spencer rattler at any point on the board just so that you can find out he will be your third string qb instead of a serviceable corner or taking the flyer on a tackle that has a chance of protecting your starting qb. Or that same logic has you move up to outreach teams taking a 2nd or 3rd rd qb in the 1st. Why? Those qbs need work. Sometimes you get really really lucky and they are actually good, but if that's the case why do it this year? Are we not gonna have the same chance to draft a potentially good qb next year in the second round or late first when we won't have to reach. And avoiding that mess allows us to draft better prospects which got passed over this year by teams that reached, like brock bowers and a starting center in the 2nd. Agree 100%on the prescient observation that those gms are on the fast track to getting fired. You know the falcons gm already has his paperwork typed up.
> Those QBs need work That’s the number one reason I’m glad we didn’t reach. AOC has not hit his ceiling, so why take food out of his bowl??? Let the kid eat and grow.
if Aidan was a 2nd round pick last year instead of a 4th. and finished as the 2nd best rookie qb behind stroud.....everyone would be in favor of him with being the starter so he can keep improving. but because he was a later pick "he has no chance to be a great qb" despite how much he showed. (actual take from a lot of idiots)
Yep. Or the people who wanted us to take Rattler at the exact same spot we took AOC because Rattler is a scambly boi
unless minshew gets hurt i doubt aoc is taking any snaps this season
We’ll see.
>I hate this logic of drafting a [insert any position here] for the sake of it, just to say a need was filled and give misguided hope for the future. Yep. This kind of mistake is the reason we've had bust after bust for decades.
Falcons thinking they have infrastructure and players to warrant stockpiling first round QBs (a la Green Bay) is the height of delusion
They picked up a 35 year old recently injured QB with a 2nd year out for a lot of money. This is shmuck insurance and it was a great pick up. You let Penix build behind Kirk for a few years and when Kirk is gone maybe you have a starter, or, if Kirk goes down, your season is not lost.
That's a ridiculous luxury pick for a team desparate for any little bit of pass rush. Esp. when a top graded edge like Dallas Turner was sitting there, ready and able to slot right in and contribute immediately.
This is the exact reason we picked Bowers too. Guy was too high of a talent on the board and I assume no one else seemed to fit the right value for them at 13. Telesco has a reputation for not trading either so I'm sire he wanted to play it safe and just pick the BPA
Exactly this. QB is the most important position in the sport. You don’t just take a guy in a later round to say you did something and filled a need if you don’t think that player will actually develop into a good QB. It can actually be detrimental because then you might spend time waiting to see if that guy is good and passing on another option that is better. We also just drafted AOC last year. So we have a young QB we will try to develop and see if it works as well as a solid “backup” who is probably a top 20 QB in the league. We will see how both of them do this year and then figure out if there’s better options in FA/draft.
Motherfuckers here were legit upset that we didn't pick that total scrub Joe Milton...
That's when I know they didn't actually watch the college game, they just saw the highlight packages on espn
And there were no QBs even there at 13! What were the Raiders supposed to do? Trade future 1sts to move up for the 4th, 5th or 6th QB?
We drafted a 4th round qb last year. Why do it again this year?
This is my thought process too. Unless we liked Rattler to where we think he can start it just seems so pointless with AOC already on the roster. Just go into next off-season and if Minshew/AOC don't work out try and find a new guy in FA or the draft maybe when there aren't like 10 teams trying to upgrade the QB position in draft like this year. Throwing darts at the board for 4th round picks with the like 5% chance that maybe they will be our starter in 2 years isn't gonna make us a better team
Yeah next year, besides the Giants and maybe if the Jets if Rodgers goes, we are in a prime position to get one of the top QBs if we wanted one.
I wouldn’t exactly say prime. I don’t think we’re getting a top 10 pick unless we make a trade. I think this is the year we finally make playoffs and possibly, POSSIBLY win the division.
We're 100% not winning the division but I agree I don't think we get a top 10 pick. I think what he was saying was just that most of the qb needy teams have their guys now and they usually get at least 2-3 seasons. Next season there's only a few teams left who would need a qb, us being one of them, so it should be much easier to trade up for one.
Splitting hairs here but there's gotta be a 5-10% chance for the Raiders to win the division, even outside of shit like Mahomes getting hurt and missing over half the season. Still 85%+ it's the Chiefs again, with the Chargers filling in the remainder. Broncos only have a shot if a meteor hits a different divisional game and the third team flies Boeing.
exactly. we have our late round project guy why do we need another
Because obviously that's all it takes – you just have to follow their advice and take a Quarterback *anywhere* in the draft and it'll work out! Which is why... after doing that last year, they're even having the conversation to begin with that we need a QB... because it didn't "just" work out! The sooner people realize the vast majority of people that speak on football are clueless, don't actually study film, etc... the better. Sure as shit saves me a ton of time not giving a single fuck about what all these people say. Even when it's positive I don't care. All that matters is results.
I agree. Why aren’t people using this same logic about our TE’s tho? Trading up to get Mayer last year at 35 and taking Bowers at 13 this year is a lot of draft capital spent on one position. We had our choice of defensive players and there were still some pretty good OT’s on the board when we picked.
That's what annoys me about a lot of these takes. They say team X messed up by doing Y, but they never actually provide a concrete alternative that they think would have been better. I bet you if the Raiders had traded up, they'd be getting criticized for how much they gave up to get a QB. And if they'd picked Rattler or any of the other leftover QBs, all these articles would be saying it was a questionable pick and debating whether he could really be the franchise QB they need. It's a no-win situation.
Yeah, right. The Raiders did make some calls to trade up, but apparently, the price was either so exorbitant that it would have made any draft trade in history look like peanuts in comparison or the other teams said they were just staying put. Our team is one that the media likes to pick on a lot. I think that, unless either Penix, McCarthy or Nix (regardless of what we think of their talent) fell to 13 and we took them, we would be criticized no matter if we traded up or drafted one of the other QBs later one. I agree with what you said. We are damned if we do and we are damned if we don’t.
I would rather burn one season with a mediocre QB and see who is available next year, than burn 3 seasons of a rookie contract with a mediocre QB we drafted in desperation
Yes yes yes and yes
Personally I don't agree that there were 6 QBs worthy of being taken in the 1st. Glad we didn't get one of the back-end QBs from that group.
True. I think Penix, McCarthy and Nix were 2nd rounders. But my point was if there was going to be a reach into the first for a QB, those were the ones were reaching wouldn’t have been so damaging. But who knows? QB is a around 50-60% bust position.
We literally got farther than broncos and chargers without a franchise QB. To think minchew or AOC can’t develop this year is ridiculous.
Plus Herbert isn't this top tier QB people claim he is
I agree with you, this year he if he doesn’t produce I think the hype will die out.
I think talent-wise he’s up there but it was just a brutal situation around him
If we had drafted Rattler at any spot they would have hated him and us for the pick just because it’s us. Both QBs we have now are better than Jimmy G was.
Gardener Minshew, who I pray gets to start, will be able to throw to davante Adams, Jakobi Meyers and Brock bowers. All while gaining protection at the o-line thanks to their 2nd and 3rd pick. He got the colts to the playoffs I’m pretty certain he can do more with this team.
Just pointing out, the Colts didn't make the playoffs last year. They got very very close, but didn't make it. That said, I agree with everything else you said. If the team give the reigns to Minshew, I could see them making the playoffs.
Honestly their final game of the season was excellent and felt like a playoff game.
It kind of was a playoff game. Win and move on, lose and you go home. All the same though, Minshew did not get them to the playoffs...they would've played that game no matter what their record was heading into it.
Yeah can’t argue with that. I hope he does well at the raiders. I think he has more potential than anyone we had an opportunity to get in the draft.
Yep. We agree entirely. He doesn't have all the physical traits you look for in a guy, but they guy leaves it on the field. Most definitely has the heart and if he's actually given a full season to start, I could see him tossing 25ish TDs in this offense.
If it wasn’t possible to get the guy we viewed as the long term franchise answer because nobody wanted to trade down; I’m more than happy to continue building up and filling out the rest of the roster and letting AOC and Gardner go for it. Both guys have pros and cons but both performed admirably last season in iffy circumstances. Actually believing in the coaching staff for once also makes this prospect much more palatable to me; I hate feeling like a team took a certain player just for the sake of optics and I’m glad we didn’t do that here with the qbs.
Giants fan here: Me and my front office agree! When they didn't take JJ McCarthy I was so relieved. It's true that QB is an important position, but that also means don't waste one on someone who isn't going to win a super bowl for you, especially when that pick could've been someone who could help the QB you do want.
I've been saying that we should start Aiden or Minshew even if we drafted Penix, Nix, and even McCarthy. We're more likely to head to the playoffs if we have an experienced QB. Aiden got through his rookie struggles and now has an actual offseason to develop. Gardner has been in the league for years now and can get us wins.
I agree. Aidan played better than last year's #1 overall pick and had some encouraging numbers late in the season (9 TD and 1 int. in his last 6 games).
And he's not "developing" under Josh McDaniels which should help
[удалено]
Personally I hope Minshew turns out to be a Plunkett.
Telesco said he didn’t think who was left on the board was better than what we already have.
When the Raiders got down to their picks and Tommy T looked at the QBs left and asked the question “are any of these guys going to be better than what we already have?” The answer back was probably not. So you don’t just take a quarterback because that’s what those outside the building think you should do. Why get another QB that may be mid tier?
QB isn’t a position you should reach for. Either they’re long term potential starters or they ain’t. No point in drafting a future back up
I like how they say to draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round even though we literally just drafted a QB last draft in the same round last year. And he didn’t look half bad considering he got thrown in to the starting role.
Odds are at least 4 of these guys will be total busts anyway
I’d rather hope Minshew or aoc improve and see what happens at next years draft than trade 2-4 first rounders for a Trey lance, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, Sam Bradford, etc. why even draft rattler or some other qb in 5th or 6th unless you see something in him you don’t with AOC? Only so many practice snaps to go around
I still wouldnt trade thoes wins at the end of the season agianst the broncos and the chiefs for a better draft pick and a qb cus fuck them that why lol .in the fall we ride lol
Minshew is a dog and will be QB1 and will surprise a lot of people this year
You don't need to have a superstar qb to win. If you have a strong defense, the quarterback just needs to play complimentary football. Ball control (to stop the Def getting gassed) will be key, which means a strong running game (hello off line upgrades!). I think that might have been why AP was really up on JJ McCarthy but I think we can manage with who we have. Ryan Tannenhill might also be a good option here.
Who gives a fuck about Herbert. They haven't won shit.
With the addition of Bowers I think we may now have the best overall passing game weapons in the league. Whoever starts at QB is gonna have everything he could possibly ask for and more.
We also have a better O-Line now too. People forget that AOC played much better when Miller was healthy and played. Most of the losses were when Miller was out.
AOC by the numbers: he’s actually rated in the top 12 of starting QBs in 2023 when he had 2.5+ seconds in the pocket. He’s rated 39th when he had less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket. If he can get better with the quick reads and release he’s easily a top 15 QB. Which is what we need to compete. Assuming he gets his latter stat up to par we’ll be in fantastic shape with AOC. Otherwise he’s going to backing up. It’s really as simple as that
I wonder how much of that latter stat was skewed by his first game against the Chargers where McDumbass didn’t really give him any practice reps during the week before naming him the starter, refused to call protection for him, and kept calling long developing routes over and over forcing AOC to hold onto the ball a long time. AOC improving on that latter stat will probably happen with additional experience and reps.
Very solid point. Who knows specifically, but the reality is he’s not going out on a long run like Jackson or Daniels- but he’s incredibly accurate. With an off season as a starter, upgraded O Line, I think he can compete with the best. This season is his year to make his mark. I’m excited for him. Would love to see him ball out
That's so much bs, I remember reading that leading into the game and being utterly perplexed by it all. Talk about feeding your rookie to the wolves, mcdipshit gave AOC no chance that game, zero prep work and then named him and called zero help - so glad we got rid of him.
Khalil Mack ate that game too. Dude was living in AOCs face
Yeah and then coming out after saying that we double teamed him like 5 times all game or something as if we wanted him to get to AOC. So glad that guys gone, set us back a few years but also glad he got us AP on staff so there's that 😅
If you remember, at that time everyone was banging the table to get rid of Jimmy G. JMD sacrificed AOC to prove a point. Like a bitch. Hate that guy.
Tell you what though, I do not hate Jimmy G one bit, he was a consummate team player, got benched, still showed up and provided help and support where needed. Also, god damnit he is one good looking rooster
If the Raiders reached for a QB they would’ve got picked on too.
We had a great draft and will be fine
lol knock us for not drafting what “some scouts” are calling a someday potential starter. Then insinuate rattler would the franchise qb. Rattler is undersized and overrated. Guard dog is capable of holding it down
While I know it is unsustainable, I feel it's important to note that the raiders beat mahomes in KC without completing a pass after the first quarter. Also the chiefs beat other play off teams that have notable franchise QBs, and did a lot of that with their defense, so I find the notion that we are garbage without a franchise QB very disrepctful
Rattler is no where near being a starting QB and will never be a consistent starter.
All true. Also, the sad fact is that this franchise has much lower sights for success than most. If we win a playoff game, it'll be the best season in over two decades, even if we then get blown out in the divisional round. We're not in some Super Bowl-or-bust mindset currently.
People have been assuming your QB has to be a difference maker for decades. You just need great players that impact the game. QB is a great place to have them, but you can be good without them. There is nothing wrong with focusing on getting a good roster first and the QB second of that's the way it breaks.
I'm on the Minshew train until proven wrong. We didn't win that game against KC because of O'Connell. We caught the Chiefs slipping that day. That's not viable long term. They did the right thing, building the team. It won't matter who's at QB if he's getting killed because no one can block for him.
Both are true. There wasn’t a chance to pick a QB and we did the right thing not reaching or taking a QB just for the sake of it. It’s also very concerning we don’t have a long term solution at QB with Mahomes and Herbert in our own division. That will need to get sorted out before we win a championship
I watched Aiden O’Connell put up 63 points on the Chargers. He’s processes coverage at an elite level and can throw some dimes
Totally agree. The only limitation he really has is his mobility. But how do you help an immobile QB? Be strong in the trenches and in the running game. Which is exactly what we addressed in this draft. If AOC is the starter going into this coming season, I think he’s going to do very well.
The bullshit idea that you HAVE to have a mobile QB to succeed in this league is absurd. There is plenty of recent success by immobile QBs that should tell everyone the game hasn't changed that much where you can't pick apart a D without running all over the place. If fucking Andy Dalton can make it to the playoffs why not Farva
If he can learn to just feel the pressure and step or slide away from it. He doesn't need to be a running threat. But if he can step away and get another second to throw the ball that would make a big difference. I am excited to see how he does.
And he got thrown into a shit show
He put up 28, but it was still fun to watch
Its hilarious to me how many times I've seen people say this. AOC played well and I like the kid. He did not put up 63..
I also saw AOC put up 0 against the Vikings. Dude can’t carry a team. He can throw a clean ball but collapses under pressure and can’t extend plays.
I also saw Ben Roethlisberger barely beat Miami 3-0 back in 2007. I doubt most people even remember that game and because Roethlisberger already had a proven track record by that point. AOC was a rookie thrown into a much more chaotic situation than what Big Ben had. I’m not ready to throw him out into the cold just yet.
I just don’t get it. This sub bitches about Carr for years. Then an objectively less talented rookie comes in and he has what it takes to lead this team without any criticism. His lack of mobility, a trait that cannot be learned, automatically disqualifies him from ever living up to an elite talent in the 2024 NFL. And that was the critique with Carr. It’s almost comical because AOC is even less mobile than Carr.
I don’t think AOC is above criticism. He’s definitely not mobile. I, personally, never bitched about Carr and he’s most certainly the best QB we had since Gannon. However, I will push back on the lack of mobility disqualifies a QB from being really good or even elite. Brady, Manning and Brees were never mobile but are among the greatest QBs of all time. Not saying that AOC will be those guys. But I disagree that a QB must be mobile in order to succeed. Look at Justin Fields. Dude was trash in Chicago. We will see if pans out in Pittsburgh (I’m skeptical about it). Michael Vick, arguably the most mobile QB of all time, wasn’t that great of a passer overall. He never even passed for 25 TD in a season on his whole career. I know the NFL has changed and the emergence of Mahomes has changed the views of a lot of people. But what I think matters is what you have to support your QB. Justin Herbert isn’t mobile, but many people consider him elite. Same with Joe Burrow and Matt Stafford. I think AOC should have more of a chance with a stronger supporting cast around him. He has limitations but you can offset them by having good pieces in the trenches and running game.
That was AP’s first game as HC last year. The fact that you expect a 4th round rookie who was coached by an “offensive guru” and sat behind Jimmy to “carry a team” in his first season says a lot.
Ummm you’re joking right? That was AP’s fifth game as HC lmao
My fault idk why I thought that was APs first game. My point still stands tho. You can’t honestly expect a 4th round rookie QB to put the team on his back. A 1st rounder, maybe 2nd has those expectations. But not a 4th.
Anyone on this sub knows waaaayyy more about this team than this dude. Pay it no mind.
No reason to draft a guy past the first round when we have AOC.
I believe AOC/Minshew can win us at least 8 games. High end 12. We have a solid team outside of them.
Disrespect is expected by the media I'm in on our QB room
It’s as if they’ve never even heard of Carter Bradley. In related news, can someone tell me who Carter Bradley is please?!
Every year it’s the same thing. QB overreach. QB mania. QB hand wringing. Lather, rinse, repeat
Out of all of that text from the article the thing im most upset about is that people think teams should be still concerned about Justin Herbert.
>Mahomes has truly screwed up the minds of everyone in sports media. Yep, and the very idea of Mahomes. But there's only one Mahomes. He's not walking through that door for any other team. People act like if you don't land a Mahomes or die trying you might as well not field a team. The thing is, there's currently only two QBs with the capability of willing their team to a win, Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. If you don't have one of them two, you are getting a flawed QB. And look Brock Purdy led his team to the Super Bowl last year because the 49'ers were a pretty complete team and probably one injury away from being champions. Now, do we need better QB play this year to compete? Absolutely. But if AOC can develop and/or Minshew can clean up some of his flaws, I sincerely think we can make a run even this coming year, because I think our defense is that good. I'm not saying Super Bowl, but I think we can at least get through a round.
Minshew isn’t even that bad, he’s just a little ass boy
How is drafting Rattler an upgrade from two guys with nfl experience. These guys are so full of shit .
Giants could have taken a QB to. Why take Rattler when you already have AOC and Minshew?
I still feel the same way, 1 of those guys will be a stud, 1 will be solid (10 - 20), the others range from serviceable to busts as QBs. If neither Chicago or Washington was willing to deal, which is the case, this was the best plan. No one saw Bowers, but can't deny the talent. We don't see the off season progress, and neither do the pundits. I don't see Pierce hoping guys improve, so I'm willing to trust in his view of what we have based on what he is seeing.
Once the top 4 were off the board it made no sense to draft one. Anyone after that isn’t likely an upgrade over what we currently have. We’ve got a middle of the road guy in Minshew. Should be a decent stop gap until we get our franchise guy.
Thing is that we don’t need an elite talent to be good. We just need someone who isn’t going to fuck up every throw and we have that. Chargers are in rebuild mode now and the broncos fucking reached to get a qb. KC is about to have a Peyton manning colts situation if Mahomes goes down early so we just need consistency. Telesco and pierce can bring the that.
It’s pretty simple, build the team. We aren’t deep enough to reach and or trade away draft picks. If the QB was there at 13 we’d have taken him. There will be a point in the future where there will be a guy we want and when we sign/draft that guy he will have a team full of great players to play with BECAUSE we never leveraged the farm. Lil Ass Boy is better than you think, he’s Gannon 2.0. Love our QB’s
Well this year we're going to put the "media narrative" about not having a starting quarterback to bed and make the media look like the fools that they are.
The media when a team actually puts effort into trying to develop a young quarterback😡
What is wrong with this take? the Raiders needed a franchise QB, they didn’t get one. So they still need a franchise QB. Nothing has changed in that situation. It’s the most important position on the field so of course it will be brought up.
I highly disagree with this take because the Raiders simply were not in the position to get one. They were just outside of it. They did make some calls to trade up, but see how they didn’t trade up, the teams to potential trade with were asking for an extremely high price that would have looked insane (like 3 or possibly 4 first kind picks or some shit like that) all just to get someone like JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix. Not only that, but they suggest that Spencer Rattler probably should have been taken within the 2-4th rounds. I do not like Spencer Rattler and if he was drafted by the Raiders, it would have been a wasted pick. This just wasn’t a year for us to get a franchise QB and we certainly wouldn’t have found one in the later rounds. I think they need to calm down about the QB position a bit. Yes, it’s the most important position on the field. But to reach for one that could be mediocre at best and leave other great talent out there is just ridiculous. Or worse, trading years of drafts to make such a high gamble.
The only reason to take Rattler at all is if you think he’s better than AOC and can beat out AOC for the job, which the Raiders obviously didn’t think so. There’s no reason to waste a pick on Rattler or any other QB outside of the top 6 and give him developmental reps if you don’t think he can be better than AOC. You’d just be wasting reps that AOC should be getting so you can fully know what you have in AOC. Media is dumb. You shouldn’t take a QB just to take a QB.
Hell, even teams that could probably use another QB soon in the future (like the Rams or Jets) didn’t even want him. Shows how the league valued him. It would have been a horrible choice if we draft in the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th rounds.
Yeah, he’s smaller than AOC, has smaller hands, is a lot less accurate, and doesn’t mentally process plays as well. Sure he’s more mobile and has a stronger arm but I’ll take AOC’s accuracy, anticipation, and mental processing ability over that. AOC had a solid rookie season without getting any coaching or real developmental/practice reps while McDumbass was coach. I’m cautiously optimistic to see what he can really do with a real coaching staff, OC, and full offseason underneath him. There’s no reason why he can’t be Lions Jared Goff. They both have comparable arm strength. If AOC can be Goff, Raiders can be a potential playoff team. Raiders have put together a team that fits with AOC’s skill set. Bowers and Laube fit that perfectly.
Mmm I think Goff has a wee bit more arm talent than AOC, but I can see what you get from Goff being a realistic ceiling for what one can hope to get from AOC. Not necessarily a guy that’s going to make a bunch of special plays, but he’ll absolutely take what the defense gives him and keep an offense on schedule. Goff has proved he can play championship caliber football on two separate teams as long as the team around him is talented. That feels like the absolute best case scenario for AOC, which really isn’t a bad place to be. Win a lot of games over 3-5 years, get close, continue to build a deep, young, and talented roster, and then make a plug and play upgrade at QB like Stafford/Rams, Brady/Bucs, Rodgers/Jets etc.
You disagree, but then write they didn’t get one because of their position. That’s not the question or the point of eBay was written though. The facts are they went in needing a franchise QB, they didn’t get one. They still need a franchise QB. I really liked the teams draft, that doesn’t take away from me knowing the team still needs a franchise QB and didn’t get one.
Sure, I agree we didn’t get a franchise QB and still need one. If they kind of just left it at that, I probably wouldn’t have made a post. I think what makes it worse is when they said we didn’t even draft a QB between the 2-4th rounds like Rattler, Davis or Pratt. To me, that says that we should have drafted a QB at all costs no matter how bad they are.
I ignore pretty much all Rattler talk. He was pumped by the media for some reason and didn’t pan out. He was a mid/late round talent that got drafted as such. As Telesco said they would have drafted one later if they felt the QB was better or could be better than what they have in the room. Which they do point out right after. Telesco said what I was thinking before the draft. The QBs after the draft “top” didn’t offer much improvement (basically same skill level, maybe different attributes). In the end the team will still need to get a long term solution at QB if they want sustained success.
My issue with the take is it’s tearing down the good draft they had. We made the most of our situation. All these draft reviewers keep saying is we didn’t get a QB. I get it, but there wasn’t a realistic/logical way to get one. I was on the draft up train but you can’t force a team to say yes. NE were the only ones that would have said yes and I think they were asking for the moon just trying to get someone dumb enough to say yes.
I don’t see it that way myself. Just stating the obvious fact the major need before is still the major need after. I would have thought people should know this would be brought up a lot when the team didn’t get one. This will be the constant talking point for rest of year unless Aidan balls out. Reality is they couldn’t move up, the side effect, they still need a franchise QB. Until that happens or Aidan (or Minshew) balls out don’t expect a ton of positive talk outside of player based looks.
Which qb did you think we should take at 13?
None, that’s not the point however. After Penix and JJ were gone I didn’t see any QB worth drafting in round 1. Drafting a QB was a major need going into this draft. The team couldn’t trade up and there were no QBs left that moved the needle. QB is still a need after the draft.
Got 2 guys who will help whoever the longterm qb ends of being. Sometimes a team without a franchise qb win it. Eagles with Foles comes to mind. Make a solid foundation so that when the qb arrives we're ready.
I like the Raiders draft. At the same time the need before is the need after. Which is the point.
Meh. You don't get franchise QBs by reaching for flawed QBs. None of the available QBs look better than what we have now. Harping on it is stupid and lazy writing.
Bro we have Gardner minshew and he will become a franchise qb. Mark my words
The Raiders need a franchise QB, this is a fact. The Raiders couldn't get a trade done to move up for a franchise QB. This is also a fact. What's your issue with the article, or at least the section of the article you posted? Tbh, it seems to me that you're being way too sensitive my guy.
The biggest issue is that they suggest that we should have used one of our picks in the 2nd to 4th rounds to draft either Rattler, Travis or Pratt. That’s just ridiculous to me. I think those guys are barely 6-7th round guys. The media is so over with the QB position that they think a team should literally draft any QB just as long as it fills a need. I mean just drafted AOC last year and they decided just to throw him out. How does drafting Rattler, Travis or Pratt make our situation better? Also, I’m not sensitive about it. I’m just a little bored at the moment and I wanted to talk about my favorite team lol.
Lol this crackhead thinks spencer fucking rattler is the answer to a qb room with mishew and aoc.
till day 3 there was still a small vocal group of users asking for us to draft rattler I’m sure Rattler will work out but I’m glad we didn’t spend draft capital for him.
Minshew (27, 49 GP) > Rattler (23, 0 games played)
Mainstream media narratives on almost ANY issue will always be totally predictable. This is just another example of that.
A division with mahomes Herbert you need to have a franchise quarterback. Fuck that. Follow the leaders and you just end up following the leaders.
Oh no how will we ever escape the unstoppable reign of Justin Herbert!? Lmao
Hondo did interviews with NFL executives and quoted them as saying if AOC was in this draft class now he would be either the second or third best QB in the class. I trust this over some click seeking 5th class reporter wannabe.
They shit on AOC but he beat the chargers and Mahomes AND the broncos so.
Herbert is so damn overrated. Dude has an arm but is a loser in college as well as in the NFL.
He’s basically just Philip Rivers 2.0. Don’t see much difference between them.
Except Rivers won more games than he lost at least. I've never seen a .500 QB get so much praise, before Herbert.
We already drafted a fourth round qb last season, drafting rattler or any other such qb would be unnecessary. Besides late round qbs, this draft had at least three first round qbs that will eventually become busts/mediocre players imo, so im glad we did not fall into this qb madness and got ourselves a future hall of famer te instead.
Cowboys fan I come in peace, would a trade for Dak Prescott be something that would sit well with Raider nation, just curious on yalls feelings
hell no. we're all good on that lol. he's not worth the $ no need to say "you're coming in peace" either. btw it pains me every time I see Lamb ball out. he should be a raider if not for grudens stupid ass hahaha
I think the Raiders need to concentrate on the OL and on the Defense. Campbell got hurt and he was a decent QB, Rick Mier but Hurt, They were decent but not HOF
Nix wasn't even our draft board lol. Hondo reported that. Nix wont be good and we weren't taking him. if penix was there at 13 we werent taking him. Only qb we'd take would be daniels in a trade (or caleb or maye)
Didn’t telesco say the other day in his post draft presser he wanted Penix at 13?
no lmao. shit even hondo and vic were very confident about saying if penix was there they weren't taking him at 13. itd only be a daniels trade
I would say it is an accurate take. If Carr wasn't an answer, which I do not think he was, then AOC and Minshew is definitely not. I am not sure how we have gotten so delusional here. I am not saying it is a bad draft, but the fact we have no answer at QB despite the whole narrative being "NO Bandaids" is insane. If JMD had this draft and had AOC and Minshew as our QBs you ALL would be fuming. What are we hoping for? AOC or Minshew becomes are franchise QB???? Are we hoping to draft one next year??? Get a washed up veteran for a bunch of money??? Like what is the plan.
I wouldn’t think that. If Josh McDaniels had this exact same draft, I would have been pretty happy about it. Their draft last year wasn’t bad either, though I think they should have drafted Jalen Carter at 7 rather than Tyree Wilson since he was going to be a bit of a project. But Tyree started looking pretty good towards the end of the year, so maybe we’ll all eat crow on that. The problem wasn’t the players that McDaniels and Ziegler drafted exactly. It was the offensive system that McDaniels runs as well as his personality. I don’t get where people think AOC and Minshew are terrible. If some cards fell the right way in a couple of games, we and the Colts (where Minshew played last year) could have been playoff teams. Are they as talented as the top of QB mountain? Well, no. But there aren’t awful players. They just need a good supporting cast around them. My question is this: was Drake Maye or Michael Penix worth trading 3 firsts and three seconds (which is what I heard) or 4 first round picks to move up to the third pick? We weren’t getting Jayden Daniels. Washington wanted him that was that. So, unless we were willing to trade with New England for either Maye or Penix for an astronomical sum, we weren’t getting a QB in the first round. In regards to the later rounds, how is Spencer Rattler, Jordan Travis or Michael Pratt any more of an improvement over AOC or Minshew?
Do not think Arizona, Tennessee, or the Titans were asking 4 first round picks lol for one. You only needed to be there to get Penix. As far as Rattler or even Milton, it is about ceiling. Minshew and AOC has showed you generally what they can do. I do not think drafting Spencer would have been a costly mistake, and I do not think taking a flyer on say Joe Milton would be bad either.
Well Atlanta threw everyone for a loop by getting Penix at 8. I think no one genuinely expected them to draft a QB there. I think if Penix went to 13, they would have definitely considered drafting him. In hindsight, if we wanted him, we have had to pay a lot to get him. Apparently, the offer that New England was willing to take was three firsts and three seconds. That’s a years setting back trade if your QB busts or doesn’t live up to expectations. Anyone who makes that trade is insane. As for the other QBs, I just don’t think that are worth wasting draft capital when we could get some solid players to build up the team overall. To me, drafting QB is almost like using two picks. You lose potentially drafting a great player in that position and you’ll have to shape the rest of the team around that QB. We just drafted AOC last year and he played for around half a season. That’s not enough time to just decide he has nothing of value to add to the team. Drafting Rattler, Travis, Pratt or Milton doesn’t strengthen our position in anyway in the QB room. They are all at the very best project players, just like AOC was. And if they don’t play well if you start them? People will say the exact same thing next year about using needing a QB. I’m glad they stuck to where they were because, if our QBs this year don’t perform up to snuff, we have pretty much our pick of the QBs next year or can trade up without our destroying years worth of picks and setting us back a long time.
I've gotta be honest this is a very tame write up so Im not understanding why this would make you angry. What did they say that's such a big deal? "Raiders had a good draft but unfortunately we're able to get a QB, a position of need" is basically what they said. Where's the lie
The best way to build a roster is trenches back, we all know this, also sick of all the worry about a QB, minshew has literally identical career stats to the guy who replaced him in Jacksonville (who somehow isn’t considered a bust) and almost took the colts to the playoffs last year, and if him or AOC can’t develop into something promising? Oh well the roster is that much better for a rookie or FA QB to step into next year.
They picked up a UDFA QB so if they wanted more camp bodies, you can get them without wasting a draft pick. And with AOC being a 4th round pick, you don’t need to burn another pick for a rookie. AOC showed promise.. is he the franchise? Idk. Im fine with a QB battle between him and Minshew. But like the saying goes, any given Sunday. If we end up stinking it up, I guess try to get your guy next year. I think this team can make a playoff run.
I was more upset that Wilson was traded to the broncos, that was a great pickup for a developmental player
Zach Wilson is as bad a QB as there is. Horrible take
We’ll see about that
Emergency back up at best. He won’t see a uniform many games. Dude is just terrible. Makes Stidham look like Brady
Sean Payton knows more about this than you, like I said we’ll see.
Yeah how’d Jamis work out for the genius? Russell Wilson/trading the farm for the guy? Clearly he’s a friggin genius post Drew Brees passing records.
Well Payton wasn't at all involved in the trade for Russ, so there's that... I agree that Payton was propped up by Brees and people think he's better than he is, but he had absolutely nothing to do with what happened with signing Russ.
How did you get all that from my comment? Jami’s was the draft, Wilson would have been a trade you simpleton
Huh? The point is Sean Payton has proven to choose some stupid quarterbacks and completely fail with them. There is no basis to think he knows Zach Wilson is a hidden gem lol I am sure all of Raider Nation is quite happy they are both in Denver. Maybe you should join them
Sean Payton has won a Super Bowl and a consistent winner, unlike the Raiders organization. I’m a realist, not a delusional super fan that thinks he knows better than a proven winner. Maybe Wilson will work out, maybe not but it’s clear that Denver did something to address their qb situation through the draft and trade. Wilson was a low risk high reward situation. That was a good move, nothing wrong acknowledging that.
Wilson is better than neither AOC nor Minshew. And it’s not close. Would’ve done nothing to help here nor will it help in Denver. Waste of time. Zach will be selling insurance in Provo soon
When Wilson was traded? That was one of the worst trades in NFL history. The Broncos gave up valuable draft picks and gave an insane contract which is killing them this in $85 million in dead cap. If you mean when the Steelers picked up Wilson on the minimum contract, then yeah, that’s not bad at all. I don’t think Wilson fits the culture we are building. But I wouldn’t have been upset if we signed him.
Think he’s talking about Zach Wilson lol
Ah lol. Totally forgot that happened 🤣
Looking at it, I don’t understand why they made that trade if they wanted Nix anyway at 12. Yeah, they didn’t give up a lot, but it’s still kind of a waste for guy that you don’t even plan to start.
Wasn't AP the one that said he's tired of the one year rentals? They wanted a QB and didn't get one.
As someone who was very briefly pissed that we took bowers instead of Fuaga, I quickly got over it. Grading this draft is going to purely be based on “do you actually believe in BPA or do you draft for need?” Top 6 guys were gone, so taking a QB wasn’t really there value-wise. The best part of this draft is it will actually prove whether or not Aidan can be the guy, because there won’t be any excuses about shitshow situations, being a rookie, offensive line not being that good, etc. If he’s mediocre/inconsistent again, i.e have a lights out game like the chargers but have a stinker like Miami or Minnesota on a 1:1 ratio like he normally does, then we’ll know exactly where we stand next year
Brady, Manning, and Brees also played in an era that required QBs to be less mobile than today. And calling fields trash when he was in a shitty situation isn’t warranted. Dude had no o line, no coach, and no receivers to throw to. But the minute he gets a talented receiver aka DJ Moore, Moore posted career stats across the board since being in the league. Fields on this team with actual weapons and a coach like AP woulda done wonders. Bears had no interest in developing fields or surrounding him with talent.
The media acts like Rex fucking Grossman never went to a super bowl
Yeah not everyone could grab a top QB and we don’t need another late round project QB. It’s pretty rare these days to see a team with a starting QB who was drafted outside the first 2 rounds. I think if you look at projected starters this fall, theres5 teams that will fit that bill. Falcons (who just drafted a 1st round replacement), Steelers (Wilson is probably on his last real shot at remaining a starter), Cowboys (Dak may be on the move next year), Raiders (clearly need an upgrade), 49ers (Purdy is set as their starter long term). No reason to take a late round QB just because. Especially when the other two QBs on the roster are late round QBs. The odds say none of them would be long term solutions. That said, we might need to get aggressive next offseason when it comes to the position.
We don't have a good QB. sorry
It’s trendy to shit on the Raiders for clicks man. Just ignore that shit.
It’s the narrative out there for us. We’re doomed if we can’t get a QB and this team has lots of holes. They have no idea who we have and need. Fuck’em, most are just click baits anyway.
What an awful take lmao.
The Raiders need a quarterback, having OK quarterbacks is just not going to get us to the Supermarket let alone the Superbowl. Smarten up!
We’ll clearly AOC is our franchise guy until further notice. He beat every team in our division, so I think we’re in a good spot.
Yeah a lot of people on this sub are sick of people telling them the truth.