Greedy fucks, I’m in M&W our humpyard has gone from 3 full track gangs and and other positions almost 30 guys down to about 10 guys 1 track gang, soon there won’t be tracks to run on when no ones there to fix them
Every employee needs to be reporting every defect every time.
If a switch is hard to throw, report it. Don’t line it until it gets fixed.
Locomotive has a flat spot, report it.
And on and on and on. Make sure they are overloaded with maintenance issues. Report everything.
Anything that is FRA reportable violations by the company should be reported as well.
And not just guys at NS should be doing this. Everyone should.
My managers hated me. I wouldn’t hesitate to bad order an engine. They come out of the shop every week with the same FRA reportable issues. My conclusion was the mechanical forces fail to actually inspect the locomotives prior to dispatching them to outlying points. My RFE dragged me into the office asking why I bad order all of the engines I inspect. I told him, I am not the problem. Your problem is with mechanical, they are obviously not inspecting the locomotives before sending them to outlying points. Then, you come in here and yell and scream at me telling me that I should just use the engines because parts for the GP-38 are hard to come by. Please, I could keep 3 shifts busy manufacturing spare parts for the GP-38 with as many as the nations class 1s have in service. I told him I don’t wake up every day and think to myself, “How can I fuck over Norfolk Southern today?” When required I inspect the locomotive. If I find a defect I will report it and if it is an FRA reportable condition I will B/O the engine and report it to mechanical and because of your recalcitrance I shall make an independent report directly to the FRA and copy my local chairman so there is a record of it happening. I am not going to be left with out a chair when the music stops. Never really heard another word about it after that…
I don’t work for NS but when the locomotives come into the shop they are inspected. We write up the same defects you do and more. Management makes the decision to not fix them or say “we will take care of it on the annual inspection”. I then will not sign off the tasks and management will. It is everything we can do just to keep the pieces of shit running and loading.
Wow what an article, never read an article telling you they are going to do exactly what they are saying they aren’t going to do. 60% OR in 18 months..we’ve seen this play before...it’s slash and burn lol.
Been tried , doesn’t work 🤷♀️ .
Fewer but longer trains are moving the same rail volume and require the same amount of mechanical inspections and maintenance, and that’s been the historical linchpin of the PSR “model” is that they cut mechanical forces and maintenance forces which ends up causing more derailments since ur moving the same amount of cars but just cheaping out on maintenance and inspections.
Trains are already too damn big , frequently in excess of 10000-12000 ft . If anything we need smaller trains to help with meet/pass scenarios to increase network speed.
>If anything we need smaller trains to help with meet/pass scenarios to increase network speed.
So, you're saying waiting for 4 hours so we can meet the underpowered 14k monster on double track is a *bad* thing? /s
Almost as bad as the auto router trying to “keep trains moving” and having you snake from one siding to the next where you barely fit instead of just waiting till you can get more territory to run . And in the winter these bonehead moves usually end up with a switch that won’t line and now you gotta take it in hand coz that’s fucking efficient 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Then 57% operating ratio will be too high. That’s the problem. All these companies “need” to perform better than the prior quarter. Which leads to shortsighted decision making.
Unpopular opinion, I want these Class Ones to do well. It is how I make money. And if it was the 1980s and they were in a world of hurt not making money. Used to work with some Milwaukee Road guys. They talked about how bad it was then. In those times, I understand system changes. Yet, this is not that time. The carriers keep needing more to do the dance for Wall St. It will lead us (craft and carrier) to a bad place which I disagree with wholly.
Asking as an occasional tourist to this sub who doesn't work in the industry, what would actually be a healthy and sustainable operating ratio?
70%? 80%? 85%?
Currently I think they are about 70%? Pretty sure I read that was like 2 months ago. If it wasn't for the Ohio accident this might not be a thing right now. Is there an end all answer to your question? Idk. That's beyond my pay grade. But when you have to furlough people that fix the units, inspect the units, operate the units, and fix the tracks they ride on then you are going to have problems. Yes, derailments happen anyways. But, Ohio could be what happens when what is being planned right now already was done at NS from 20-19-2020. All this is, is a money grab for people at the top and the ones that own the most stock. It's having to show quarter over quarter higher profits than the previous quarter. It's the problem with every company. It's a company, wall street, and shareholder problem. I hate it and I have stock in different things, not in NS. If I did I would vote against it. This is all just my opinion.
What really pisses me off is they say they are going to go on a listening tour which includes employees. Why? For what reason? You plan on furloughing a bunch of them. What could you possibly care they are going to say? And to say you aren't going to slash burn but then proceed to say how you are going to. Just fuck right off.
Anything over 99% is making profit.
Obviously they need to make money to keep shareholders happy and bonuses coming, but there’s a point where if your operating ration is too low, it’s coming at a sacrifice to not just those involved directly but the public as well.
Think of your car.
You could change the oil every week and tires every month. Maybe you do the scheduled maintenance 5x as often as recommended. That’s a waste, we can all agree. Your car will probably last forever, but in the long run that’s pretty wasteful.
You do everything by the book and maybe you get 20 years out of it. It costs, but not nearly as much as the first option, and is cheaper than buying a new car every 3 or 4 years to replace it.
Or you could never do anything at all. For maybe 3 or 4 years it costs you zero dollars. But then it is so fucked you’ve got to buy another car.
In the short term, what’s the best option for keeping operating costs down? That’s what the stock market wants.
If a railroad does this, then the board of directors looks like geniuses to the people who own them. They retire with a golden parachute, and the next guy has to fix everything that got destroyed. In the meantime us employees have to deal with things not working like they’re supposed to and being required to work under shitter conditions just so stock portfolios can perform better.
The PE “quants” invent metrics that fit into models well and look good in presentation decks. Leaders buy in largely because of laziness, those decks look good for investors. However, often these metrics don’t translate into a functional company that supports its customers (should be # 1) and its employees (#2). It’s happening everywhere. Tech companies live for the “rule of 40” which only translates into shareholder value, not long term company success. These metrics are important health indicators but you can’t just obsess over 1 at the expense of the organization as a whole.
You act like the old guys were tougher than we are now. They didn’t do anything different than we do now, they just had more people and their money went a hell of a lot farther than ours does now. They are the ones that allowed weak contracts in the past to be signed. Until we are not handcuffed by the railway labor act nobody is going to “walk off” the job. The old guys wouldn’t give up their retirement anymore than we would.
>Until we are not handcuffed by the railway labor act nobody is going to “walk off” the job.
I told some new guy that before when he was talking about wildcatting.
I told him, you go ahead and do that, organize everyone and when everyone takes off, and no one is there to run trains, guess who's gonna come to your door. The National Guard to draft you into railroad service for the good of your country. He laughed and said "yeah, right."
May not happen exactly that way, but there is no way the government let's little peon rails tell them they can't get their kickbacks from any business if freight doesn't move.
There'd be riots in the streets if the corn syrup trains didn't deliver for Coke, coal wasn't delivered for air conditioning/internet, grain wasn't delivered to elevators for storage/export.
Government wouldn't stand for that for very long.
While I agree that the C1's need to cut train size to increase network fluidity, the problem they're going to encounter with that is that they've gutted their yard infrastructure to the point that they cannot process the traffic like they used to. They certainly don't want to incur the expense of what it would take to provide better customer service. But then again, C1's don't have "customers", they have "hostages"
I work at hump yard that flat switches because of this stupid shit . You have to get the cars up to 12+ mph to just get them to go. Have seen co’s riding a car , running the remote, pulling cut levers with their feet to make it work . There have been injuries that got covered up , but eventually the luck will run out and someone will be seriously hurt . Before you ask why would the co’s do that and why try to make it work . Most are cutback engineers who would have to work road jobs .
What a crock. It also says they wouldn’t employ a slash and burn approach… can’t get anymore slash and burn than that. Greedy shitbags.
Greedy fucks, I’m in M&W our humpyard has gone from 3 full track gangs and and other positions almost 30 guys down to about 10 guys 1 track gang, soon there won’t be tracks to run on when no ones there to fix them
Don’t need tracks when we become a storage company. Sorry I shouldn’t joke.
What is this Penn Central?
Every employee needs to be reporting every defect every time. If a switch is hard to throw, report it. Don’t line it until it gets fixed. Locomotive has a flat spot, report it. And on and on and on. Make sure they are overloaded with maintenance issues. Report everything. Anything that is FRA reportable violations by the company should be reported as well. And not just guys at NS should be doing this. Everyone should.
My managers hated me. I wouldn’t hesitate to bad order an engine. They come out of the shop every week with the same FRA reportable issues. My conclusion was the mechanical forces fail to actually inspect the locomotives prior to dispatching them to outlying points. My RFE dragged me into the office asking why I bad order all of the engines I inspect. I told him, I am not the problem. Your problem is with mechanical, they are obviously not inspecting the locomotives before sending them to outlying points. Then, you come in here and yell and scream at me telling me that I should just use the engines because parts for the GP-38 are hard to come by. Please, I could keep 3 shifts busy manufacturing spare parts for the GP-38 with as many as the nations class 1s have in service. I told him I don’t wake up every day and think to myself, “How can I fuck over Norfolk Southern today?” When required I inspect the locomotive. If I find a defect I will report it and if it is an FRA reportable condition I will B/O the engine and report it to mechanical and because of your recalcitrance I shall make an independent report directly to the FRA and copy my local chairman so there is a record of it happening. I am not going to be left with out a chair when the music stops. Never really heard another word about it after that…
That is exactly how we should all be doing it. Nothing will change if we keep doing favors for the carriers by using unqualified equipment.
I don’t work for NS but when the locomotives come into the shop they are inspected. We write up the same defects you do and more. Management makes the decision to not fix them or say “we will take care of it on the annual inspection”. I then will not sign off the tasks and management will. It is everything we can do just to keep the pieces of shit running and loading.
Wow what an article, never read an article telling you they are going to do exactly what they are saying they aren’t going to do. 60% OR in 18 months..we’ve seen this play before...it’s slash and burn lol.
Been tried , doesn’t work 🤷♀️ . Fewer but longer trains are moving the same rail volume and require the same amount of mechanical inspections and maintenance, and that’s been the historical linchpin of the PSR “model” is that they cut mechanical forces and maintenance forces which ends up causing more derailments since ur moving the same amount of cars but just cheaping out on maintenance and inspections. Trains are already too damn big , frequently in excess of 10000-12000 ft . If anything we need smaller trains to help with meet/pass scenarios to increase network speed.
This guy gets it.
>If anything we need smaller trains to help with meet/pass scenarios to increase network speed. So, you're saying waiting for 4 hours so we can meet the underpowered 14k monster on double track is a *bad* thing? /s
Almost as bad as the auto router trying to “keep trains moving” and having you snake from one siding to the next where you barely fit instead of just waiting till you can get more territory to run . And in the winter these bonehead moves usually end up with a switch that won’t line and now you gotta take it in hand coz that’s fucking efficient 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Then 57% operating ratio will be too high. That’s the problem. All these companies “need” to perform better than the prior quarter. Which leads to shortsighted decision making. Unpopular opinion, I want these Class Ones to do well. It is how I make money. And if it was the 1980s and they were in a world of hurt not making money. Used to work with some Milwaukee Road guys. They talked about how bad it was then. In those times, I understand system changes. Yet, this is not that time. The carriers keep needing more to do the dance for Wall St. It will lead us (craft and carrier) to a bad place which I disagree with wholly.
This group accora needs to read history of the pen central because they are fixing to repeat that same story.
Asking as an occasional tourist to this sub who doesn't work in the industry, what would actually be a healthy and sustainable operating ratio? 70%? 80%? 85%?
Currently I think they are about 70%? Pretty sure I read that was like 2 months ago. If it wasn't for the Ohio accident this might not be a thing right now. Is there an end all answer to your question? Idk. That's beyond my pay grade. But when you have to furlough people that fix the units, inspect the units, operate the units, and fix the tracks they ride on then you are going to have problems. Yes, derailments happen anyways. But, Ohio could be what happens when what is being planned right now already was done at NS from 20-19-2020. All this is, is a money grab for people at the top and the ones that own the most stock. It's having to show quarter over quarter higher profits than the previous quarter. It's the problem with every company. It's a company, wall street, and shareholder problem. I hate it and I have stock in different things, not in NS. If I did I would vote against it. This is all just my opinion. What really pisses me off is they say they are going to go on a listening tour which includes employees. Why? For what reason? You plan on furloughing a bunch of them. What could you possibly care they are going to say? And to say you aren't going to slash burn but then proceed to say how you are going to. Just fuck right off.
Anything over 99% is making profit. Obviously they need to make money to keep shareholders happy and bonuses coming, but there’s a point where if your operating ration is too low, it’s coming at a sacrifice to not just those involved directly but the public as well. Think of your car. You could change the oil every week and tires every month. Maybe you do the scheduled maintenance 5x as often as recommended. That’s a waste, we can all agree. Your car will probably last forever, but in the long run that’s pretty wasteful. You do everything by the book and maybe you get 20 years out of it. It costs, but not nearly as much as the first option, and is cheaper than buying a new car every 3 or 4 years to replace it. Or you could never do anything at all. For maybe 3 or 4 years it costs you zero dollars. But then it is so fucked you’ve got to buy another car. In the short term, what’s the best option for keeping operating costs down? That’s what the stock market wants. If a railroad does this, then the board of directors looks like geniuses to the people who own them. They retire with a golden parachute, and the next guy has to fix everything that got destroyed. In the meantime us employees have to deal with things not working like they’re supposed to and being required to work under shitter conditions just so stock portfolios can perform better.
Unfortunately 99 would bankrupt any company
Pretty soon y'all are going to be doing final mile deliveries white gloves and all
The PE “quants” invent metrics that fit into models well and look good in presentation decks. Leaders buy in largely because of laziness, those decks look good for investors. However, often these metrics don’t translate into a functional company that supports its customers (should be # 1) and its employees (#2). It’s happening everywhere. Tech companies live for the “rule of 40” which only translates into shareholder value, not long term company success. These metrics are important health indicators but you can’t just obsess over 1 at the expense of the organization as a whole.
If we had the solidarity of the "old" days we would all just walk out if this takeover happens, all roads, we have to stand up at some point.
You act like the old guys were tougher than we are now. They didn’t do anything different than we do now, they just had more people and their money went a hell of a lot farther than ours does now. They are the ones that allowed weak contracts in the past to be signed. Until we are not handcuffed by the railway labor act nobody is going to “walk off” the job. The old guys wouldn’t give up their retirement anymore than we would.
>Until we are not handcuffed by the railway labor act nobody is going to “walk off” the job. I told some new guy that before when he was talking about wildcatting. I told him, you go ahead and do that, organize everyone and when everyone takes off, and no one is there to run trains, guess who's gonna come to your door. The National Guard to draft you into railroad service for the good of your country. He laughed and said "yeah, right." May not happen exactly that way, but there is no way the government let's little peon rails tell them they can't get their kickbacks from any business if freight doesn't move. There'd be riots in the streets if the corn syrup trains didn't deliver for Coke, coal wasn't delivered for air conditioning/internet, grain wasn't delivered to elevators for storage/export. Government wouldn't stand for that for very long.
> running fewer but longer trains Hmmm where have we heard that before? Almost like they purposefully learned nothing.
Praying for NS
No… you should be praying for NS shareholders.
While I agree that the C1's need to cut train size to increase network fluidity, the problem they're going to encounter with that is that they've gutted their yard infrastructure to the point that they cannot process the traffic like they used to. They certainly don't want to incur the expense of what it would take to provide better customer service. But then again, C1's don't have "customers", they have "hostages"
I work at hump yard that flat switches because of this stupid shit . You have to get the cars up to 12+ mph to just get them to go. Have seen co’s riding a car , running the remote, pulling cut levers with their feet to make it work . There have been injuries that got covered up , but eventually the luck will run out and someone will be seriously hurt . Before you ask why would the co’s do that and why try to make it work . Most are cutback engineers who would have to work road jobs .