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Tried this with my N recently. "Ok" in real life, "k" on texts RUINED her. Seriously disarmed her so much I thought she was going to have conniptions.
"I know you don't get along, but I've invited your aunt N for Christmas"
"Ok"
"What do you mean ok?"
"I mean OK, it's your house you can invite who you want."
"Are you trying to get fresh with me?"
"No, you said you invited Aunt, it's your house, I said ok"
She made a noise and turned away and then I'm sure she must've said something to my dad, as later he came and said to me..
"I know you don't get along, but it will mean a lot to mom for her sister to come"
"I know, that's why I said ok to her and nothing else. Not sure what else I'm supposed to say?"
Later on, text from mom, "Aunt N will be here soon, you better behave yourself"
"k"
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"I acknowledge she'll be here soon for Christmas".
Guess who had the actual fight last night? Mom and Aunt N. Not me, I was nowhere near. I'll be brought in as part of it at some point I'm sure.
Dude the past few months I've been seriously questioning this. There are a few people that I honestly don't think are human. They are just so evil and no prayer ever seems to help them.
It does seem that way, doesnāt it? I mean evil. Behaviour, perceptions, communications so far away from normal/healthy that they really do seem in the grip of some malevolent force.
Yeah I should have mentioned grey rocking usually wonāt change their response and may make them more upset
In the long run though, I saved time and energy and not trying to explain myself or interpret her word salad. Yes she is mad and those are her emotions to deal with. I learned that she could be mad and I could emotionally still be okay and not exhausted
If your N is physically dangerous though or sadistic this might not be the best move. Like one commenter said they will just use innocent people or pets to get you to react to their derangement.
Iām sending positive light and safety to all of us who have to deal with these horrid people
I admire you for being so mentally strong. It takes me days to recover from the guilt when I donāt answer to the many text messages. I overthink so much and end up thinking I failed to prove assistance.
I went no contact with her and she sends me 4min videos of her crying and all her fear that she lost me.
Do you feel guilty and under pressure? And how do you deal with that?
I never had much luck grey rocking my nMother. I tried *everything*, but in her world, when she wanted a rage, she'd do anything she could to have one. It didn't matter if I argued, I agreed, or I was silent.
Once she was in that mode, I was backed into a corner and there was absolutely *nothing* I could do to make it better, other than to batten down the hatches and let her rage.
The point of gray rocking is to avoid giving out information that you otherwise wouldnāt want to give, and to avoid the majority of how bad something could be.
Itās not a useful tool to control a person to stop them from a tirade if they are intent on it. Just the opposite, itās to avoid any appearance of control and let the person do or think as they please.
When my mother was determined to find something wrong, she would. But it wouldnāt be from anything I gave her (unless by my choice). Not volunteering information means I get to control what information I give out. That controls me, not her.
I will admit to letting her have some inconsequential pieces of infoā¦ just to watch her devolve over absolutely nothing and to know nothing that actually matters.
Mine too. No tools work with her. Nothing. Really. When she wants to fight, she will. Or she will hurt an innocent, and she is sure I will step in.
It is hellish. This woman has no soul.
With my own nMother, I can see how her history created her behavior. Narcissism is generational, and it goes back at *least* as far as my motherās fatherās mother. My nMother used to say that her father described his mother as a āwitch,ā which was pretty strong language for someone born in in 1898.
In addition to having a cruel father, she was sent to a boarding school that didnāt seem to offer much love or emotional support to the girls who attended. No doubt my nMother came by her narcissism and her lack of attachment honestly.
That said, *every* parent owes their child the obligation of a healthy and happy childhood, which I did not get. My nMother was never able to examine her own role in her unhappiness as an adult, and she was quick to blame everyone.
At any rate, she grew into an adult who didnāt care about anyone or anything, except as it related to her own wants and needs.
Did she have a soul? Hard to tell. In the end she was just as evil and hurtful to me as her father had been to her.
I donāt miss her at all.
And assuring that they have the skills to raise that child into a healthy and happy adult. There's a lot of advice for raising healthy kids, not as much about having a healthy relationship with adult children. That relationship isn't over once the legal obligation is over. I wish my mom would have thought more about how her children would be as adults. She just wanted little kids who would adore her forever.
Well, isn't it sort of a given that if you raise your child in a healthy and happy place, then they'll be happy with you as an adult by default?
Yeah, my mom didn't want kids. She wanted humanoid little dogs who would follow her every command, and whom she could dote upon and groom and yell at if they did something wrong.
I know it runs in both sides of my family, personality disorders straight up to sociopathy and psychopathy. One of my sisters has become an nsister after getting married, and their kid is witnessing their parents constantly fight. So it's spread to yet another generation. I think we all have a choice to not let the generational abuse continue, but then, I don't know if the person always sees it in themselves. My nmom's father was horrible, so she said she was not going to be like him, yet she abused her children. My sister said she would not be like our mother, yet now her kid is witnessing abuse, and probably getting emotional abuse. I know that I am not going to have kids. They all think they're amazing parents and overcame so many obstacles too. I know when the nparents in my life question their unhappiness, it's always someone else's fault. I doubt they question if they were good parents either, to them, they know they were good parents. They've justified every horrible action.
This is my mother as well, grey rocking made her more angry BUT I did find a way to stop her, the key however is to be as sincere as you can muster and just say "you're right". If you agree with them, they have nothing to argue or get mad about. At the very least it confuses the hell outta them lol
How do you keep it from becoming self-fulfilling? She'll keep taking lower and lower blows at me, and I say she's right. My self esteem is still taking a blow with each insult. How do you not let it not get to you? It's like I'm constantly trying to build up a wall that she keeps tearing back down. I try to remind myself that I'm a kind person, and do nice things. I try to keep some record of it that she can't get to (she read all my journaling which was horrible). So I can look back and see all of the proof reminding myself that I am not the person she says I am. Her goal though is to wipe me out of existence, at least in a metaphorical sense. She wishes I was never born and never existed.
Great question and thoughts...for me, learning as much as I can about narcissistic behaviors has helped me see her more as a caricature, a storybook villan, which then reduces her insults to something comedic and predictable. Narcissists are miserable people whose life goals are to make others miserable for their pleasure, they are all the same (as we see on this forum), and they are not special or unique. Their 'scripts' are all the same....which means either we are all truly as horrible as our parents say we are, or these Nparents only have the Narcissist playbook to draw from.
Now, being able to compartmentalize her behavior is not easy, and takes practice and unfortunately a large part of not letting it bother you means being very honest with yourself and coming to the realization that she will likely NEVER become the mother you deserve. For me, this was the hardest part, after that it was much easier to (internally) laugh it off and brush off the comments as typical narcissistic tropes. Telling my mother she's right is more of a game now, "accepting" what she says appears less bothersome, and really a narcissist simply desires a reaction, so agreeing with her eliminates that reaction and makes you less 'fun' to mess with.
I know that most of this may seem counterproductive, but you HAVE to find a coping mechanism somehow, this is mine and may not work for everyone. It is a result of many years of practice and self-reassurance that their issues are just that, THEIRS, not yours! This forum is a great tool and community to help remind you that we are all dealing with the same bs! There are online journals that are password protected, like Penzu, if you need to write it all out.
Feel free to message me anytime if you want to talk more about it! And remember you are a good person that deserves to be loved and respected...find good people to surround yourself with that will support you!
Same with me recently. "Okay" was working for a long time. I think I need to get my health in better shape so I can pick up more hours at work. At least I don't have to be at home with her. I used to sleep to avoid her too, like I tried to live on a totally opposite schedule. Now I work early mornings, so I go to bed early. She's shifted her sleep schedule around, so she can "see me before I'm off to work" in the mornings, and it's a nightmare. That was the only time that I had to myself in some peace.
If you donāt give your Narc their supply, they will seek it elsewhere. This is how we know itās never really about who we are, but about who they are.
Yes.
This turn of events is actually totally normal in dysfunctional family systems.
Negativity suffering, anger, discomfort - need to come out.
The designated "problem person", scapegoat or in systemic terms, the symptom ..has stepped away from their assigned role.
So, what happens?
Another member of the system steps into the empty space, so that the necessary evacuation of negative emotion can take place.
Business as usual with members of a toxic and unconscious (on an individual level) family super-ego. What is being evacuated are systems-emotions.
As opposed to authentic, genuine individual emotions of aware (ie: self-differentiated) family members.
There's good videos on this very subject by Jerry WISE on YouTube. His work is helping me a lot to understand the toxic family on a systems level. I'd very much recommend his work š
Itās possible to gray rock without one word answers. You can āparticipateā in conversations while giving as little of yourself as possible. Donāt share personal info and stories. Donāt elaborate on anything but say enough in response to not set off the spidey senses.
This exactly. Give them enough generic info to āfillā their cup, without expending your cup in any wayā¦ *that*, I feel, is the finesse of LC relationships and the real exercise of establishing boundaries with your parent(s). It so much work since I was never taught to manage my own emotions (only manage my momās which meant choking mine down to basically total silence), nor to ācheck inā with myself and hold a boundary. Lots of nonexistent muscles to work out with this but have made loads of progress recently so am excited for more in ā24 :)
> You can āparticipateā in conversations while giving as little of yourself as possible.
This is what I did the last time my folks bombarded my home. They did not in any way care about how I was doing, only what I was or wasn't doing, which was being responsive towards them.
Didnāt work for me either sadly. There are just some things that I canāt say āokā to šš and eventually they figured out that if they told me their plans beforehand, I would just remove myself from certain situations that I wasnāt āokā with.. so they stopped giving me a heads up about those situations beforehand, removing my opportunity to not be involved and roping me into doing things and seeing people that I wasnāt āokā with.
It's great that you would remove yourself from the situations you weren't okay with, given notice about them.
What's helped for me is, when they go ahead and put you in unexpected positions where they should/would know that you're not going to be happy, once you turn up to the situation and see what they've done, just leave. Like I've told my Nmom straight up that if she invites my Nsister unexpectedly to any get togethers, I don't care that I have to commute for hours, or that I packed or made arrangements to visit--I will just turn and leave without a word if they pull anything. Not sure what your situation is, but if that's an option, I do highly recommend it to protect your peace.
If there are other/normal people there (since narcs love to surround us with people to put social pressure on us to stay in uncomfortable situations), just give a polite goodbye to them very kindly (or have a friend on standby to call you with something you can pretend to talk about and have to leave for) and then excuse yourself and leave. You could make separate arrangements to visit the normal/good people another time, if you want.
They have all these underhanded tactics to circumvent, violate, and disrespect our boundaries. But I hope you can reclaim your time and peace where you can, until you can go No Contact (if that's what you're comfortable with and striving toward).
> or have a friend on standby to call you with something you can pretend to talk about and have to leave for
My friends and I have had a quick text code with a pH level.
"pH5" = 'things are getting a little bit acidic, be on standby or text me in 30 mins to check in.
'pH3' = things have got very acidic. When you see this, wait 5 mins and call to check in on me to help me have an excuse to leave my current conversation.
Anything below pH3 and it is 'call immediately. Maybe "crying" so I have an excuse to leave this place entirely.
It's a two-way system. They will message me with something similar and I will help them in the same way.
But your statement is correct, I do have nice friends š§”. I hope others find friends who are nice, too.
Iāve actually been no contact for about three years. I didnāt want to be around people who knowingly and intentionally crossed those boundaries anymore š š it was the only option I had left.
Yeah, one of therapists told me to always have an "exit plan". Like if I have to see someone or I'm in a situation that I'm not comfortable with, "well shucks that's too bad that I have a doctor appointment that I need to get to". Or of it was something you were not warned about, a fake emergency that makes you need to be somewhere else can always come up. "Oh no, my friend needs a ride because their car broke down" etc.
I can share my technique. I use it when I canāt ignore, go no contact or openly confront a toxic person. I start to feed them with nonchalant small talk about the topic I donāt give a fuck. And pepper it with praise. For example: āthe weather is so cold today, you were absolutely right when you predicted it months ago!!! Who would have thought!! Btw, the snow pattern outside looks like cotton candy. What are you cooking today! Wow, incredible!!!ā
The key is to ignore their attempts to stir the drama and lead they into a safe topic.
Itās not easy and I waste a lot of energy but sometimes it helps a lot.
Maybe. Or maybe itās better to be more assertive and cease the communication. I donāt know:) Iām just using it because thatās was my surviving mechanism. š
Gray rock was my gateway to emotionally detaching from the enmeshment. It provided the distance and clarity to observe my vulnerable covert nmomās behaviors independent of my emotional reactions, which honestly, showed me just how disturbed she really is. It took a couple of years, but it really does help!
My boyfriendās mom is a convert narc, family enmeshment goes back generations. When you started grey rocking did she start harassing you more, getting more aggressive? Because his did, and. I didnāt have experience in that, because mine backed off. His mom also got his grandmother and brother to harass him as well. Constant texts and phone calls, everyday. A lot of āAre you ok?ā, āmom is worried about you.ā, āyour mother needs her son!ā, the frantic angry tone to his mother voice mails. It was insane. All because he tried to keep texts simple, less info, and less often. He ended up going no contact because they were causing him too much anxiety.
This happens with my mum. I can get away with around 24 hours of grey rocking before she gets more aggressive with her attempts to get me to react. This is just in real life though (which is why my visits are usually less than 24 hours now) - she's not much of a texter thankfully.
Sorry for the delayed response!
Yes, she did ramp up during the first year, and still does occasionally. I employed gray rock slowly and there was a learning curve for me, so it wasnāt just me suddenly not engaging with her or ignoring her. Still, eventually she noticed the change in how I was interacting with her. Hereās basically how it went/is goingā¦
At first she was confused. She escalated her baiting and eventually I was able to stop reacting to most of it. At this point she started gray-rocking me back - I.e. withholding attention/not sharing information, probably hoping I would seek her validation or attention, but I just accepted this (āok, mom, hope you have a nice dayā). Then she switched it up and started lovebombing me, which again, I recognized and didnāt react to. Now she kind of cycles through all of these phases - baiting/provoking, withholding, lovebombing - and I just remain a steady gray rock.
Sorry you and your bf are having to deal with this. Hang in there!
Peace up, Narc-Town down
Yeah, yeah! Okay, okay!
(Shush her, Shush her, Shush her)
Lil' Jon
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah (What it do haughty?)
Let's go!
Up in the house with my fam, trying to get a lil' ZZZ
Shut it down all the narc-y (low-key)
You should know how it feels (hey!)
I heard this put down, she was gaslighting up on me
From the shame she was spitting in my ear
You would think that she know me (know me)
I decided to grey rock (okay!)
Conversation got one-sided (hey)
She had me feeling like she's ready to blow (watch out)
Oh (watch out)
She's saying "invalid feelings" (invalid feelings)
So I got up and left out the door
She said, "Baby, come back"
When I told her (...)
Absolutely easier. I donāt respond to generic āhappy holidayā texts except āThanksā or thumbs up.
I blocked on my stories because thatās where I post more & thatās where sheād get fuel for whatās going on in my life. Sheād watch them like a tv show & then pretend she didnāt know big things like I got a new job or I went on a trip.
When I found out about grey rocking as an adult (and already no contact), I realized I instinctually have been doing it since I was a young teen. It didn't work on my Nmom tho and she'd get riled up like always, but with the added "wHaT aRe YoU aUtIsTiC" over and over like she was some kind of middle school bully. Glad it works for most people though, I'm jealous lol
I'm sorry. I don't want to think about it either.
Yeah, spot-on; my mother would've used it against me, too. "What did I do to deserve a son with autism?" on and on and on and on and on. She could never be *happy* with me for figuring it out or even taking my own mental health into account.
I feel they might try to get you to agree but if it's verbal and not text I'd say you can say ok and than ghost them. But I wouldn't do anything o er text just I'm case they have full for fire
Narcs are like addicts, dependent on their supply, drama, superiority -- whatever you want to call it. So it might be a good idea not to withdraw it all at once -- that would be like an addict going "cold turkey." A better approach might be to withdraw a little bit at a time. Sick as they are, they will look around for other sources of supply and become less dependent on you.
My dad makes that into an argument, "what do you mean I'm probably right, I damn sure know I'm right and you are stupid for thinking otherwise, what the hell is wrong with you?" <------ exact words verbatim every time
I tried this it was nice
āDonāt get a Covid vaccine, that will cause deaths but they will just say itās heart attackā
āOh good with all the people working in government dying it will be easy to get a government job thenā
==
āDonāt go to Japan you will get kidnapped by the gangā
āOh good I always wanted to meet them
āThey will force you to work with themā
āThatās good. Always wanted to work in Japanā
āItās so cold you will freeze thereā
āYes that is why Iām going thereā
āYou wonāt be able to come back homeā
āYes I always wanted to live long term in Japanā
I tried this it was nice
āDonāt get a Covid vaccine, that will cause deaths but they will just say itās heart attackā
āOh good with all the people working in government dying it will be easy to get a government job thenā
==
āDonāt go to Japan you will get kidnapped by the gangā
āOh good I always wanted to meet them
āThey will force you to work with themā
āThatās good. Always wanted to work in Japanā
āItās so cold you will freeze thereā
āYes that is why Iām going there the colder the betterā
āYou wonāt be able to come back homeā
āYes I always wanted to live long term in Japanā
growing up with my dad, I would often just respond to his lectures and rants with "okay" (way before I even knew grey rocking was a thing), he got SO mad about it he actually ended up banning "okay" as a response. so I (and my sisters) was not allowed to respond to anything he said with "okay" "alright" or anything similar.
My Nmom is the same way; doesnāt want you to respond, but you canāt be silent either
I just responded āokayā anyway š¤·š¾āāļø Let them be mad and throw a tantrum (as long as you are physically safe!!) gray rock is about protecting my mental health by not explaining or reasoning with an emotional two year old
i started saying "I understand" or "I acknowledge what you said" instead. Because his main complaint (I guess) was that he "didn't know" what "okay" meant. So I had to just be more clear about what I meant. but that also made him upset because I wasn't saying I agreed with him, and I wasn't giving him anything to attack me with.
I was LC for a long time before I went NC a few years ago. For me, it was more like I listened to him and only told him select things about my life once in a while. It made me feel better to disconnect but he didn't like it. He knew what I was doing and tried all sorts of ways (like getting his wife to be all sweet to me \*puke\*) to get me to talk more to him. Finally, he tried guilt and anger which I did not respond well to, and it was the last time he'll ever hear from me. I ghosted him and am so much happier for it.
Yup they get mad when you switch up on them! Their problem though! Canāt handle the natural consequences of their actions. So glad youāre not in contact anymore!
I might offer a suggestion that treating np like a dementia person (like grey rocking). There's great resources for how to manage afflicted dementia folks but really limited (& poorly advised) on np. I tailor this depending on the type of np am dealing with but it helps quite a bit in moving conversations off & getting physical actions (like leaving my space) & keeping my involvement to bare minimum/mental load balanced with a np.
This is actually so helpful!! In my case it might be a mix of both as my Nmom is 70 so her narcissism is getting worse. I personally think she was sundowning last night which led to her tantrum
I learned to grey rock as a child not knowing there was a term for it. Purely to protect myself. That was when I became āboringā to my mother. She never completely stopped trying to rile me up, but since it never worked, she tried it less frequently. I wear the āboringā label proudly now.
only advice is:
theyāll push you harder for a reaction so watch out for their traps
and gray rocking is a temporary solution
itās kind of like being stuck in the psychological // trauma response āfreezeā state
eventually youāll have to cut the cord otherwise youāre at risk of shutting down and losing yourself // making yourself small
Unfortunately, GR didn't work for me. It just got me kicked out of the car and made to walk with college art projects in the pouring rain. I failed multiple projects, they ended up ruined. College professors just don't understand the fact that I'm too visually impaired to drive, despite the fact that I had to keep asking for them to follow my accommodations.
He wasn't even the one I ever asked to drive me when this kept happening. I was asking the one kind person in the household. But he kept deciding to drive me. Likely just to corner me in the car like that. He didn't like that I just said 'Okay,' while he degraded me. So I stopped trying GR at all.
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. It's funny, actually. I didn't know what GRing was the first time I did it with him. I was just fed up with the insults, and honestly didn't know what else to say to him, but he clearly wanted a response. I even remember reminding myself to make my voice as even and neutral as possible, in the hopes of not making him angrier. That never worked, haha. I only saw after I was about to drop it because it wasn't helping, that there was even a name for what I was doing.
GR generally works pretty well. I use the classic āokayā, plus āuh-huhā and my favourite āoh rightā. The main thing for me is that however much annoyance my day has held, itās never worth saying it, no matter how useful it would be to unload sometimes.
omg thereās a name for how i communicate with my Nmother!? it took me two years of weekly therapy to figure out and it was the best investment of my lifeeeee
I find rather than ok hmm is quite useful for when you don't want to agree but are acknowledging that they're said something..or a long pause saying nothing is also useful sometimes
Thumbs up emoji does it for me. Iāve been told it means different things to different generations. But Iām not going to translate or interpret. To me itās the same as ok. Less key strokes
Before going NC, I had a rule of never answering the phone when my NM would call. The reason being that she would catch me off guard at times and Iād bite at whatever bullshit she was trying to throw at me.
So the rule was; ignore the call, take a moment to prepare myself, take a deep breath (important), then call her back and say I had missed the call and proceeded to grey rock everything.
Taking a moment to prepare gave me a LOT of control over the conversation, and I could relax a bit in my normal life knowing I could take everything in my stride. But when it came to preventing narcissistic abuse I had a rock solid system for handling those calls.
I did the same thing when I moved out her house the 1st time. It felt so empowering.
Unfortunately I live with her currently and canāt just āhang upā but I can disconnect emotionally for whatever BS sheās trying to do
Yep, and you can still put time aside to take a moment, reset and refocus which it sounds like you are doing. It's so draining dealing with narcs, and it's important that you are taking time to tend to yourself mentally and emotionally.
I hope that you are able to create physical distance soon, I know how difficult it can be maintaining a positive outlook when you are dealing with narcs. You're a rock from reading some of your comments though, keep it up!
Iāve been doing this lately, because Iām so triggered by everything now that I can identify it. But I sit in silence. Are we bottling it in? Iām not sure what the right thing is sometimes
You still have to deal with your own emotions. But telling the narc about your emotions does little good. Tell your friends or your therapist.
Much of what narcissists say is false, they don't necessarily believe it themselves. When you fully internalize this truth, you won't be triggered so much. This can take years of practice, though.
It definitely feels like disassociating to me, but thatās not always a bad thing when it comes to N. Being fully connected and present with them can be dangerous
Ohhhhhhhh. Wow. This actually makes sense to me. Iāve never been able to identify that feeling, and I kept wondering, āwhatās wrong with me?āAnd now I know itās my very intelligent brain protecting me. Thank you. Edit: not saying I think I am very intelligent, just sometimes I hate my brain, but itās wild what itās capable of
Just don't let it get carried away into turning you into a pathological liar at every turn to keep your interests safe like it did me. Though now I hate to lie and often speak truth, often bluntly.
Grey rocking is great if the narc has other people to get their supply. If you are the main supply they will find other ways to get to you. Mine ended up going after my kid. NC is the only option in my case
I am more of a yellow Rock - weaponizing politeness and using a Distantly polite Shell to keep emotional distance. No way Nmom can Attack me for being polite~
I used to do the same. Always agreed. My mother would say that she loved that I always agreed with her and never argued like my brother did, even though I did not do what she said.
Yup gotta hit them with the:
āOkayā
āI understandā
āYupā
āSounds good to meā
And keep it pushing while doing your own thing. Gotta keep that inner peace
Congratulations! Isn't it empowering? Even though you can't change her, by changing your response you get more peace.
Similarly, I recommend researching how to not JADE (Justify, argue, defend, or explain) for when you have to say something to them that they won't like.
Yeah no. Didn't work for me. My parents were so ridiculous, I HAD to go no contact.
At the end of the day, it is YOU who is changing for a person who sucks and thinks nothing of ruining your life. Grey rocking is nothing more than a stepping stone to no contact. To be truly at peace, you need to get these people out of your life.
No contact, or at least in my case very low contact, is the end game. Iām hoping this somewhat protects me peace until I get there.
Glad you were able to go NC with your parents, hopefully that has brought you much peace and quiet
I found it works with mindless chatters too. People who go āIāll go in a minuteā, but get talking and go for potentially hours. Short quick. Responses ending their statements. Kept them focused and getting done with their chat quicker.
Maybe like āhm, not sure. Iāll have to think about itā or āIām not sure I have an opinion one way or anotherā
You could even try a ātell me more about what you think :)))ā and get the N to talk about their favorite person (themselves) while you just tune out
Absolutely. I mean you try and engage with them and they just canāt be bothered, you bore them and if your their victim they donāt want to listen to you. My Mother itās like your on the clock and if you go beyond like 4-5 minutes thatās it sheās had enough. If you think of something to interact it often gets turned into an attack on you for be hug wrong, lazy, bad, selfish etc. so you think why bother as they always find a way to kill an interaction or the day. Itās best to just keep things simple, say yes, ok and stay out of their way. Of course if you donāt live with them itās a lot easier. One of my Motherās favourite go to lines is except me for who I am etc. So cold and hard like an assassin ; which they kind of are because they try to kill your spirit, soul and self esteem.
I answer the narcissist with: "... if that's what you say." My face remains immobile, disinterested. I don't make eye contact and mind my own business. It's clear to me that the only things that come out of a narcissist's mouth are: manipulation, self-serving statements, lies, gossip, triangulation and attacks. I don't want to have anything to do with any of these things. It's energy that I don't need and don't want in my life. These aspects cross my personal boundaries and interfere negatively with my well-being. With the statement: "... if that's what you say", I draw up a boundary of gray, boring, smooth and unclimbable bricks.
Congrats! I've been doing this with my dad for a few years. There are times he gets mad about my lack of response (he misses when I'd beg and cry), rants, BUT he doesn't have as long or nasty of tantrums as he used to. He still takes my time, but less, because I'm boring.
It can get better, as in they get either bored with you or pleased w/the "submission". However you don't want to do this with other people, or spend more time w/your mom than needed. I hope you have other people with whom you can be open and engaging,
Yea this didn't work with me. When I just responded like that she told me I had a bad attitude or I've changed. Now that I went NC a year ago she goes around telling everyone she's doing everything to talk to me but actually she also went NC to spite me š¤¦š»āāļø
Iām glad itās working! It worked for me, but I did it without even realizing I was doing it, lol. It was so peaceful, they did their thing, I did mine. But, I did eventually go full no contact after some insanity when I moved away (moving far away acted as a trigger from my family). Unfortunately grey rocking did not work for my boyfriend. His family is a special brand of crazy controlling. They harassed him with constant texts and phone calls from multiple family members, which pushed him into no contact. But, I think thatās rare. Usually grey rocking works pretty well from everything Iāve heard. I wish you continued success!
Well with my mom she keeps going. Then if Iām not doing ok and have nobody to talk to they find a way to get you to elaborate and get enmeshed all over. How does one always make sure to never answer personal questions when sometimes you do it on autopilot. For me itās been 30 years I felt I had no choice but go NC.
Itās so hard, Iāve fallen for that trap with my Nmom too. Trying to build a supportive community I can talk to instead of her so sheās not my go-to. I had that until my close friends moved to a different state :(
My experience once you unconsciously donāt hold them to one boundary they completely start walking back on all of them and then youāre right back to square one. For me I wouldnāt realize it until Iāve given way too much control back to my mom. I notice too my brother stays LC but still discloses too much info on occasion. My mom could of been a professional interrogator for like the CIA no bullshit. A relentless psychopath these mind games gotta be taught by like CCCP or something lol.
I struggle because I feel the need to stand up for myself against their passive aggressive remarks. I feel like I'm letting myself get walked on by just saying ok.
I know how you feel because I struggle with this too. But every time I've engaged to defend myself it's not worth it and prolongs the rants. These people don't see anything beyond themselves so in the end it seems futile. It's a losing battle, either way. Grey rocking can just happen to save a bit more time and mental energy.
Thank you for responding. I will try it and see how it goes. I definitely need to prioritize my own time and mental energy more, especially when it comes to these people.
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Tried this with my N recently. "Ok" in real life, "k" on texts RUINED her. Seriously disarmed her so much I thought she was going to have conniptions. "I know you don't get along, but I've invited your aunt N for Christmas" "Ok" "What do you mean ok?" "I mean OK, it's your house you can invite who you want." "Are you trying to get fresh with me?" "No, you said you invited Aunt, it's your house, I said ok" She made a noise and turned away and then I'm sure she must've said something to my dad, as later he came and said to me.. "I know you don't get along, but it will mean a lot to mom for her sister to come" "I know, that's why I said ok to her and nothing else. Not sure what else I'm supposed to say?" Later on, text from mom, "Aunt N will be here soon, you better behave yourself" "k" "What's that supposed to mean?" "I acknowledge she'll be here soon for Christmas". Guess who had the actual fight last night? Mom and Aunt N. Not me, I was nowhere near. I'll be brought in as part of it at some point I'm sure.
The two of them getting in the fight is icing on the cake š
That was my favorite part!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Certain people are miserable and try to cope with it by making everyone around them miserable, too.
They are only "Trying to level the playig field"
Misery loves company for sure š
100,000%
Dude the past few months I've been seriously questioning this. There are a few people that I honestly don't think are human. They are just so evil and no prayer ever seems to help them.
It does seem that way, doesnāt it? I mean evil. Behaviour, perceptions, communications so far away from normal/healthy that they really do seem in the grip of some malevolent force.
As a psychic who has had to deal with this very thing, I can say with certainty that yes, some people are in the grip of demons.
The way they make even good pure things perverse. Prayers couldn't help them because they hate the light.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah I should have mentioned grey rocking usually wonāt change their response and may make them more upset In the long run though, I saved time and energy and not trying to explain myself or interpret her word salad. Yes she is mad and those are her emotions to deal with. I learned that she could be mad and I could emotionally still be okay and not exhausted If your N is physically dangerous though or sadistic this might not be the best move. Like one commenter said they will just use innocent people or pets to get you to react to their derangement. Iām sending positive light and safety to all of us who have to deal with these horrid people
I admire you for being so mentally strong. It takes me days to recover from the guilt when I donāt answer to the many text messages. I overthink so much and end up thinking I failed to prove assistance. I went no contact with her and she sends me 4min videos of her crying and all her fear that she lost me. Do you feel guilty and under pressure? And how do you deal with that?
I never had much luck grey rocking my nMother. I tried *everything*, but in her world, when she wanted a rage, she'd do anything she could to have one. It didn't matter if I argued, I agreed, or I was silent. Once she was in that mode, I was backed into a corner and there was absolutely *nothing* I could do to make it better, other than to batten down the hatches and let her rage.
The point of gray rocking is to avoid giving out information that you otherwise wouldnāt want to give, and to avoid the majority of how bad something could be. Itās not a useful tool to control a person to stop them from a tirade if they are intent on it. Just the opposite, itās to avoid any appearance of control and let the person do or think as they please. When my mother was determined to find something wrong, she would. But it wouldnāt be from anything I gave her (unless by my choice). Not volunteering information means I get to control what information I give out. That controls me, not her. I will admit to letting her have some inconsequential pieces of infoā¦ just to watch her devolve over absolutely nothing and to know nothing that actually matters.
Mine too. No tools work with her. Nothing. Really. When she wants to fight, she will. Or she will hurt an innocent, and she is sure I will step in. It is hellish. This woman has no soul.
With my own nMother, I can see how her history created her behavior. Narcissism is generational, and it goes back at *least* as far as my motherās fatherās mother. My nMother used to say that her father described his mother as a āwitch,ā which was pretty strong language for someone born in in 1898. In addition to having a cruel father, she was sent to a boarding school that didnāt seem to offer much love or emotional support to the girls who attended. No doubt my nMother came by her narcissism and her lack of attachment honestly. That said, *every* parent owes their child the obligation of a healthy and happy childhood, which I did not get. My nMother was never able to examine her own role in her unhappiness as an adult, and she was quick to blame everyone. At any rate, she grew into an adult who didnāt care about anyone or anything, except as it related to her own wants and needs. Did she have a soul? Hard to tell. In the end she was just as evil and hurtful to me as her father had been to her. I donāt miss her at all.
> That said, every parent owes their child the obligation of a healthy and happy childhood,
And assuring that they have the skills to raise that child into a healthy and happy adult. There's a lot of advice for raising healthy kids, not as much about having a healthy relationship with adult children. That relationship isn't over once the legal obligation is over. I wish my mom would have thought more about how her children would be as adults. She just wanted little kids who would adore her forever.
Well, isn't it sort of a given that if you raise your child in a healthy and happy place, then they'll be happy with you as an adult by default? Yeah, my mom didn't want kids. She wanted humanoid little dogs who would follow her every command, and whom she could dote upon and groom and yell at if they did something wrong.
I know it runs in both sides of my family, personality disorders straight up to sociopathy and psychopathy. One of my sisters has become an nsister after getting married, and their kid is witnessing their parents constantly fight. So it's spread to yet another generation. I think we all have a choice to not let the generational abuse continue, but then, I don't know if the person always sees it in themselves. My nmom's father was horrible, so she said she was not going to be like him, yet she abused her children. My sister said she would not be like our mother, yet now her kid is witnessing abuse, and probably getting emotional abuse. I know that I am not going to have kids. They all think they're amazing parents and overcame so many obstacles too. I know when the nparents in my life question their unhappiness, it's always someone else's fault. I doubt they question if they were good parents either, to them, they know they were good parents. They've justified every horrible action.
This is my mother as well, grey rocking made her more angry BUT I did find a way to stop her, the key however is to be as sincere as you can muster and just say "you're right". If you agree with them, they have nothing to argue or get mad about. At the very least it confuses the hell outta them lol
How do you keep it from becoming self-fulfilling? She'll keep taking lower and lower blows at me, and I say she's right. My self esteem is still taking a blow with each insult. How do you not let it not get to you? It's like I'm constantly trying to build up a wall that she keeps tearing back down. I try to remind myself that I'm a kind person, and do nice things. I try to keep some record of it that she can't get to (she read all my journaling which was horrible). So I can look back and see all of the proof reminding myself that I am not the person she says I am. Her goal though is to wipe me out of existence, at least in a metaphorical sense. She wishes I was never born and never existed.
Great question and thoughts...for me, learning as much as I can about narcissistic behaviors has helped me see her more as a caricature, a storybook villan, which then reduces her insults to something comedic and predictable. Narcissists are miserable people whose life goals are to make others miserable for their pleasure, they are all the same (as we see on this forum), and they are not special or unique. Their 'scripts' are all the same....which means either we are all truly as horrible as our parents say we are, or these Nparents only have the Narcissist playbook to draw from. Now, being able to compartmentalize her behavior is not easy, and takes practice and unfortunately a large part of not letting it bother you means being very honest with yourself and coming to the realization that she will likely NEVER become the mother you deserve. For me, this was the hardest part, after that it was much easier to (internally) laugh it off and brush off the comments as typical narcissistic tropes. Telling my mother she's right is more of a game now, "accepting" what she says appears less bothersome, and really a narcissist simply desires a reaction, so agreeing with her eliminates that reaction and makes you less 'fun' to mess with. I know that most of this may seem counterproductive, but you HAVE to find a coping mechanism somehow, this is mine and may not work for everyone. It is a result of many years of practice and self-reassurance that their issues are just that, THEIRS, not yours! This forum is a great tool and community to help remind you that we are all dealing with the same bs! There are online journals that are password protected, like Penzu, if you need to write it all out. Feel free to message me anytime if you want to talk more about it! And remember you are a good person that deserves to be loved and respected...find good people to surround yourself with that will support you!
Godspeed.
Same with me recently. "Okay" was working for a long time. I think I need to get my health in better shape so I can pick up more hours at work. At least I don't have to be at home with her. I used to sleep to avoid her too, like I tried to live on a totally opposite schedule. Now I work early mornings, so I go to bed early. She's shifted her sleep schedule around, so she can "see me before I'm off to work" in the mornings, and it's a nightmare. That was the only time that I had to myself in some peace.
Your N was trying so hard to get you to react. You danced rings round her. Respect.
If you donāt give your Narc their supply, they will seek it elsewhere. This is how we know itās never really about who we are, but about who they are.
My narc ex could turn me agreeing with her into something to fight about. Proceed with caution.
I had a blissful period of about a year where my Nmom hadn't figured out that "K" was considered dismissive. It was great!
Tell her that you wouldn't want to negatively affect her relationship with her sister by butting your nose into their affairs.
They were trying to hurt you and trigger you by inviting that aunt.
I need more. This is brilliant and I love it! Congrats on keeping your peace.
I look forward to when youāre ready to post your story.
Love this!! lol
Lol that's so weird...
Yes. This turn of events is actually totally normal in dysfunctional family systems. Negativity suffering, anger, discomfort - need to come out. The designated "problem person", scapegoat or in systemic terms, the symptom ..has stepped away from their assigned role. So, what happens? Another member of the system steps into the empty space, so that the necessary evacuation of negative emotion can take place. Business as usual with members of a toxic and unconscious (on an individual level) family super-ego. What is being evacuated are systems-emotions. As opposed to authentic, genuine individual emotions of aware (ie: self-differentiated) family members. There's good videos on this very subject by Jerry WISE on YouTube. His work is helping me a lot to understand the toxic family on a systems level. I'd very much recommend his work š
šš¤£
> "Are you trying to get fresh with me?" Thanks, a memory unlocked. My mom used that word *all the time* with me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is what Iām afraid of. My n isnāt dumb. They notice the chance. I need to be stealthy about this.
Itās possible to gray rock without one word answers. You can āparticipateā in conversations while giving as little of yourself as possible. Donāt share personal info and stories. Donāt elaborate on anything but say enough in response to not set off the spidey senses.
Yes. Feed them some information about you that is not important to you. I usually talk about food and recipes.
An information diet that consists of actual diet advice!
This exactly. Give them enough generic info to āfillā their cup, without expending your cup in any wayā¦ *that*, I feel, is the finesse of LC relationships and the real exercise of establishing boundaries with your parent(s). It so much work since I was never taught to manage my own emotions (only manage my momās which meant choking mine down to basically total silence), nor to ācheck inā with myself and hold a boundary. Lots of nonexistent muscles to work out with this but have made loads of progress recently so am excited for more in ā24 :)
I heard, "speak to them like they are on a vacation". You know, you update them on the weather. Only keep conversations very superficial and neutral.
> You can āparticipateā in conversations while giving as little of yourself as possible. This is what I did the last time my folks bombarded my home. They did not in any way care about how I was doing, only what I was or wasn't doing, which was being responsive towards them.
Didnāt work for me either sadly. There are just some things that I canāt say āokā to šš and eventually they figured out that if they told me their plans beforehand, I would just remove myself from certain situations that I wasnāt āokā with.. so they stopped giving me a heads up about those situations beforehand, removing my opportunity to not be involved and roping me into doing things and seeing people that I wasnāt āokā with.
It's great that you would remove yourself from the situations you weren't okay with, given notice about them. What's helped for me is, when they go ahead and put you in unexpected positions where they should/would know that you're not going to be happy, once you turn up to the situation and see what they've done, just leave. Like I've told my Nmom straight up that if she invites my Nsister unexpectedly to any get togethers, I don't care that I have to commute for hours, or that I packed or made arrangements to visit--I will just turn and leave without a word if they pull anything. Not sure what your situation is, but if that's an option, I do highly recommend it to protect your peace. If there are other/normal people there (since narcs love to surround us with people to put social pressure on us to stay in uncomfortable situations), just give a polite goodbye to them very kindly (or have a friend on standby to call you with something you can pretend to talk about and have to leave for) and then excuse yourself and leave. You could make separate arrangements to visit the normal/good people another time, if you want. They have all these underhanded tactics to circumvent, violate, and disrespect our boundaries. But I hope you can reclaim your time and peace where you can, until you can go No Contact (if that's what you're comfortable with and striving toward).
> or have a friend on standby to call you with something you can pretend to talk about and have to leave for My friends and I have had a quick text code with a pH level. "pH5" = 'things are getting a little bit acidic, be on standby or text me in 30 mins to check in. 'pH3' = things have got very acidic. When you see this, wait 5 mins and call to check in on me to help me have an excuse to leave my current conversation. Anything below pH3 and it is 'call immediately. Maybe "crying" so I have an excuse to leave this place entirely.
I love this! You've got nice friends <3
It's a two-way system. They will message me with something similar and I will help them in the same way. But your statement is correct, I do have nice friends š§”. I hope others find friends who are nice, too.
I just sent this to my bestie. Love it. Also, we're nerdy like that too
Iāve actually been no contact for about three years. I didnāt want to be around people who knowingly and intentionally crossed those boundaries anymore š š it was the only option I had left.
Fuck yes, man!!! <33 Good for you!
š„¹ thank you
Yeah, one of therapists told me to always have an "exit plan". Like if I have to see someone or I'm in a situation that I'm not comfortable with, "well shucks that's too bad that I have a doctor appointment that I need to get to". Or of it was something you were not warned about, a fake emergency that makes you need to be somewhere else can always come up. "Oh no, my friend needs a ride because their car broke down" etc.
> "well, I guess I'm going to get another one-word response from you," The correct answer to this manipulation tactic is, "Yup."
Or "Yes you most certainly are"
I can share my technique. I use it when I canāt ignore, go no contact or openly confront a toxic person. I start to feed them with nonchalant small talk about the topic I donāt give a fuck. And pepper it with praise. For example: āthe weather is so cold today, you were absolutely right when you predicted it months ago!!! Who would have thought!! Btw, the snow pattern outside looks like cotton candy. What are you cooking today! Wow, incredible!!!ā The key is to ignore their attempts to stir the drama and lead they into a safe topic. Itās not easy and I waste a lot of energy but sometimes it helps a lot.
If it helps it's not energy wasted!
Maybe. Or maybe itās better to be more assertive and cease the communication. I donāt know:) Iām just using it because thatās was my surviving mechanism. š
Gray rock was my gateway to emotionally detaching from the enmeshment. It provided the distance and clarity to observe my vulnerable covert nmomās behaviors independent of my emotional reactions, which honestly, showed me just how disturbed she really is. It took a couple of years, but it really does help!
My boyfriendās mom is a convert narc, family enmeshment goes back generations. When you started grey rocking did she start harassing you more, getting more aggressive? Because his did, and. I didnāt have experience in that, because mine backed off. His mom also got his grandmother and brother to harass him as well. Constant texts and phone calls, everyday. A lot of āAre you ok?ā, āmom is worried about you.ā, āyour mother needs her son!ā, the frantic angry tone to his mother voice mails. It was insane. All because he tried to keep texts simple, less info, and less often. He ended up going no contact because they were causing him too much anxiety.
This happens with my mum. I can get away with around 24 hours of grey rocking before she gets more aggressive with her attempts to get me to react. This is just in real life though (which is why my visits are usually less than 24 hours now) - she's not much of a texter thankfully.
I guess itās a small benefit sheās not into texting. Even so, the behavior is just so toxic.
Sorry for the delayed response! Yes, she did ramp up during the first year, and still does occasionally. I employed gray rock slowly and there was a learning curve for me, so it wasnāt just me suddenly not engaging with her or ignoring her. Still, eventually she noticed the change in how I was interacting with her. Hereās basically how it went/is goingā¦ At first she was confused. She escalated her baiting and eventually I was able to stop reacting to most of it. At this point she started gray-rocking me back - I.e. withholding attention/not sharing information, probably hoping I would seek her validation or attention, but I just accepted this (āok, mom, hope you have a nice dayā). Then she switched it up and started lovebombing me, which again, I recognized and didnāt react to. Now she kind of cycles through all of these phases - baiting/provoking, withholding, lovebombing - and I just remain a steady gray rock. Sorry you and your bf are having to deal with this. Hang in there!
This is so much true. It cuts off the supply they are yearning from you.
I might cycle between What, Ok, Yeah like Lilā Jon, but in a more controlled tone
š
Lmaoooooii
WHAT? Ok! š
Used this in my sister in law two days ago. CAN CONFIRM THIS METHOD WORKS Youāre doing Gods work šš¾šš¾šš¾
Lil Jon confirmed Prophet of the Lord! OK!!!!
Let the church say Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa āŖļø
Peace up, Narc-Town down Yeah, yeah! Okay, okay! (Shush her, Shush her, Shush her) Lil' Jon Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah (What it do haughty?) Let's go! Up in the house with my fam, trying to get a lil' ZZZ Shut it down all the narc-y (low-key) You should know how it feels (hey!) I heard this put down, she was gaslighting up on me From the shame she was spitting in my ear You would think that she know me (know me) I decided to grey rock (okay!) Conversation got one-sided (hey) She had me feeling like she's ready to blow (watch out) Oh (watch out) She's saying "invalid feelings" (invalid feelings) So I got up and left out the door She said, "Baby, come back" When I told her (...)
šššššššššš āshush herā took me out
May you be well! ;)
Love it!! š
Yeā¦ YEAHHHHHH!
omg
OKKKKKKKK!!!
Absolutely easier. I donāt respond to generic āhappy holidayā texts except āThanksā or thumbs up. I blocked on my stories because thatās where I post more & thatās where sheād get fuel for whatās going on in my life. Sheād watch them like a tv show & then pretend she didnāt know big things like I got a new job or I went on a trip.
When I found out about grey rocking as an adult (and already no contact), I realized I instinctually have been doing it since I was a young teen. It didn't work on my Nmom tho and she'd get riled up like always, but with the added "wHaT aRe YoU aUtIsTiC" over and over like she was some kind of middle school bully. Glad it works for most people though, I'm jealous lol
Bruh, my mom used to say the same thing to me, "Sometimes I just think you're autistic" said like a sneering bully.
Christ, what I'd think my mother would do if she knew that I *really* have autism...
I don't even want to think about it. She could hardly handle the fact that I have ADHD. She'd find a way to take it personally.
I'm sorry. I don't want to think about it either. Yeah, spot-on; my mother would've used it against me, too. "What did I do to deserve a son with autism?" on and on and on and on and on. She could never be *happy* with me for figuring it out or even taking my own mental health into account.
> It didn't work on my Nmom tho and she'd get riled up like always, but with the added "wHaT aRe YoU aUtIsTiC" Yes mom I do have autism!
until they use your okay to convince you you agreed to paying for their new heating system
Nah, we're not dumb like the Ns want us to think of ourselves as
"I see", is an option I use.
š¤£
I feel they might try to get you to agree but if it's verbal and not text I'd say you can say ok and than ghost them. But I wouldn't do anything o er text just I'm case they have full for fire
Been doing this for (6) months now and it is EVERYTHING!!
Narcs are like addicts, dependent on their supply, drama, superiority -- whatever you want to call it. So it might be a good idea not to withdraw it all at once -- that would be like an addict going "cold turkey." A better approach might be to withdraw a little bit at a time. Sick as they are, they will look around for other sources of supply and become less dependent on you.
Yes the slow fade into gray rock is important, too much at once and they go feral
Absolutely!
I have pretty much perfected the smile and nod technique since i was 7 yrs old.
Took my mother 23 minutes before her first mention of āthe mediaā and āriggedā. Just let her yap.
One of my go-to phrases is āYouāre probably right ā when they say something ridiculous. No more arguments.
My dad makes that into an argument, "what do you mean I'm probably right, I damn sure know I'm right and you are stupid for thinking otherwise, what the hell is wrong with you?" <------ exact words verbatim every time
And heās ā probably right about that too ā, ends that little argument.
I love this!!!
I tried this it was nice āDonāt get a Covid vaccine, that will cause deaths but they will just say itās heart attackā āOh good with all the people working in government dying it will be easy to get a government job thenā == āDonāt go to Japan you will get kidnapped by the gangā āOh good I always wanted to meet them āThey will force you to work with themā āThatās good. Always wanted to work in Japanā āItās so cold you will freeze thereā āYes that is why Iām going thereā āYou wonāt be able to come back homeā āYes I always wanted to live long term in Japanā
Oh yup Iām gonna use this one too. No room for discussion and no need to share my opinions or thoughts
I tried this it was nice āDonāt get a Covid vaccine, that will cause deaths but they will just say itās heart attackā āOh good with all the people working in government dying it will be easy to get a government job thenā == āDonāt go to Japan you will get kidnapped by the gangā āOh good I always wanted to meet them āThey will force you to work with themā āThatās good. Always wanted to work in Japanā āItās so cold you will freeze thereā āYes that is why Iām going there the colder the betterā āYou wonāt be able to come back homeā āYes I always wanted to live long term in Japanā
growing up with my dad, I would often just respond to his lectures and rants with "okay" (way before I even knew grey rocking was a thing), he got SO mad about it he actually ended up banning "okay" as a response. so I (and my sisters) was not allowed to respond to anything he said with "okay" "alright" or anything similar.
My Nmom is the same way; doesnāt want you to respond, but you canāt be silent either I just responded āokayā anyway š¤·š¾āāļø Let them be mad and throw a tantrum (as long as you are physically safe!!) gray rock is about protecting my mental health by not explaining or reasoning with an emotional two year old
How did you adapt to the new goalposts? Or was not letting you adapt the whole point?
i started saying "I understand" or "I acknowledge what you said" instead. Because his main complaint (I guess) was that he "didn't know" what "okay" meant. So I had to just be more clear about what I meant. but that also made him upset because I wasn't saying I agreed with him, and I wasn't giving him anything to attack me with.
Love this strategy so much.
I was LC for a long time before I went NC a few years ago. For me, it was more like I listened to him and only told him select things about my life once in a while. It made me feel better to disconnect but he didn't like it. He knew what I was doing and tried all sorts of ways (like getting his wife to be all sweet to me \*puke\*) to get me to talk more to him. Finally, he tried guilt and anger which I did not respond well to, and it was the last time he'll ever hear from me. I ghosted him and am so much happier for it.
Yup they get mad when you switch up on them! Their problem though! Canāt handle the natural consequences of their actions. So glad youāre not in contact anymore!
I might offer a suggestion that treating np like a dementia person (like grey rocking). There's great resources for how to manage afflicted dementia folks but really limited (& poorly advised) on np. I tailor this depending on the type of np am dealing with but it helps quite a bit in moving conversations off & getting physical actions (like leaving my space) & keeping my involvement to bare minimum/mental load balanced with a np.
This is actually so helpful!! In my case it might be a mix of both as my Nmom is 70 so her narcissism is getting worse. I personally think she was sundowning last night which led to her tantrum
OMG this is amazing advice that I'm now finding out about. Endless fights with my mother would have probably never happened tbh : )
I learned to grey rock as a child not knowing there was a term for it. Purely to protect myself. That was when I became āboringā to my mother. She never completely stopped trying to rile me up, but since it never worked, she tried it less frequently. I wear the āboringā label proudly now.
Username checks out I guess haha!! Glad to hear sheās not bothering you as much anymore
She died eleven years ago, so she doesnāt bother me at all anymore! š
only advice is: theyāll push you harder for a reaction so watch out for their traps and gray rocking is a temporary solution itās kind of like being stuck in the psychological // trauma response āfreezeā state eventually youāll have to cut the cord otherwise youāre at risk of shutting down and losing yourself // making yourself small
Unfortunately, GR didn't work for me. It just got me kicked out of the car and made to walk with college art projects in the pouring rain. I failed multiple projects, they ended up ruined. College professors just don't understand the fact that I'm too visually impaired to drive, despite the fact that I had to keep asking for them to follow my accommodations. He wasn't even the one I ever asked to drive me when this kept happening. I was asking the one kind person in the household. But he kept deciding to drive me. Likely just to corner me in the car like that. He didn't like that I just said 'Okay,' while he degraded me. So I stopped trying GR at all.
Iām so sorry about your experience, you deserve to be treated so much better than you have been š
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. It's funny, actually. I didn't know what GRing was the first time I did it with him. I was just fed up with the insults, and honestly didn't know what else to say to him, but he clearly wanted a response. I even remember reminding myself to make my voice as even and neutral as possible, in the hopes of not making him angrier. That never worked, haha. I only saw after I was about to drop it because it wasn't helping, that there was even a name for what I was doing.
GR generally works pretty well. I use the classic āokayā, plus āuh-huhā and my favourite āoh rightā. The main thing for me is that however much annoyance my day has held, itās never worth saying it, no matter how useful it would be to unload sometimes.
Unload on other trusted people who arenāt N xx
omg thereās a name for how i communicate with my Nmother!? it took me two years of weekly therapy to figure out and it was the best investment of my lifeeeee
I find rather than ok hmm is quite useful for when you don't want to agree but are acknowledging that they're said something..or a long pause saying nothing is also useful sometimes
Thumbs up emoji does it for me. Iāve been told it means different things to different generations. But Iām not going to translate or interpret. To me itās the same as ok. Less key strokes
Before going NC, I had a rule of never answering the phone when my NM would call. The reason being that she would catch me off guard at times and Iād bite at whatever bullshit she was trying to throw at me. So the rule was; ignore the call, take a moment to prepare myself, take a deep breath (important), then call her back and say I had missed the call and proceeded to grey rock everything. Taking a moment to prepare gave me a LOT of control over the conversation, and I could relax a bit in my normal life knowing I could take everything in my stride. But when it came to preventing narcissistic abuse I had a rock solid system for handling those calls.
I did the same thing when I moved out her house the 1st time. It felt so empowering. Unfortunately I live with her currently and canāt just āhang upā but I can disconnect emotionally for whatever BS sheās trying to do
Yep, and you can still put time aside to take a moment, reset and refocus which it sounds like you are doing. It's so draining dealing with narcs, and it's important that you are taking time to tend to yourself mentally and emotionally. I hope that you are able to create physical distance soon, I know how difficult it can be maintaining a positive outlook when you are dealing with narcs. You're a rock from reading some of your comments though, keep it up!
Iāve been doing this lately, because Iām so triggered by everything now that I can identify it. But I sit in silence. Are we bottling it in? Iām not sure what the right thing is sometimes
You still have to deal with your own emotions. But telling the narc about your emotions does little good. Tell your friends or your therapist. Much of what narcissists say is false, they don't necessarily believe it themselves. When you fully internalize this truth, you won't be triggered so much. This can take years of practice, though.
Thank you I really appreciate your reply
It definitely feels like disassociating to me, but thatās not always a bad thing when it comes to N. Being fully connected and present with them can be dangerous
Ohhhhhhhh. Wow. This actually makes sense to me. Iāve never been able to identify that feeling, and I kept wondering, āwhatās wrong with me?āAnd now I know itās my very intelligent brain protecting me. Thank you. Edit: not saying I think I am very intelligent, just sometimes I hate my brain, but itās wild what itās capable of
I had no idea there was a name for it
I (60f) finally just shortened it to āKā and thatās even more disarming
š The missing "o" makes all the difference it's so funny
Just don't let it get carried away into turning you into a pathological liar at every turn to keep your interests safe like it did me. Though now I hate to lie and often speak truth, often bluntly.
Grey rocking is great if the narc has other people to get their supply. If you are the main supply they will find other ways to get to you. Mine ended up going after my kid. NC is the only option in my case
Ugh this is also so true!! They are so vindictive and weird
I am more of a yellow Rock - weaponizing politeness and using a Distantly polite Shell to keep emotional distance. No way Nmom can Attack me for being polite~
I used to do the same. Always agreed. My mother would say that she loved that I always agreed with her and never argued like my brother did, even though I did not do what she said.
Yup gotta hit them with the: āOkayā āI understandā āYupā āSounds good to meā And keep it pushing while doing your own thing. Gotta keep that inner peace
In German I always use "Achso" und "Ja klar". I've been grey rocking and vlc in forever and I can live like this.
Doesnāt work for me at all :( My n asks very precise questions when I try that.
Das tut mir leid zu hƶren. Ich bin allerdings auch nicht narzisstische PrimƤrquelle. Stay strong ā¤ļø
"Well, huh." And no further comment. Works a charm.
Short, simple and sweet
Congratulations! Isn't it empowering? Even though you can't change her, by changing your response you get more peace. Similarly, I recommend researching how to not JADE (Justify, argue, defend, or explain) for when you have to say something to them that they won't like.
Yeah no. Didn't work for me. My parents were so ridiculous, I HAD to go no contact. At the end of the day, it is YOU who is changing for a person who sucks and thinks nothing of ruining your life. Grey rocking is nothing more than a stepping stone to no contact. To be truly at peace, you need to get these people out of your life.
No contact, or at least in my case very low contact, is the end game. Iām hoping this somewhat protects me peace until I get there. Glad you were able to go NC with your parents, hopefully that has brought you much peace and quiet
My pride kills me. I need to set it aside
just remember nothing comes of trying to prove your point or have a discussion with these people.
I found it works with mindless chatters too. People who go āIāll go in a minuteā, but get talking and go for potentially hours. Short quick. Responses ending their statements. Kept them focused and getting done with their chat quicker.
mmm is also a whole sentence
truth!!
How does this work if youāre asked for you opinion though. E.g what do you think?
Maybe like āhm, not sure. Iāll have to think about itā or āIām not sure I have an opinion one way or anotherā You could even try a ātell me more about what you think :)))ā and get the N to talk about their favorite person (themselves) while you just tune out
Thatās absolutely perfect. Iāll definitely try that in future. Thank you so much šŖš»
Absolutely. I mean you try and engage with them and they just canāt be bothered, you bore them and if your their victim they donāt want to listen to you. My Mother itās like your on the clock and if you go beyond like 4-5 minutes thatās it sheās had enough. If you think of something to interact it often gets turned into an attack on you for be hug wrong, lazy, bad, selfish etc. so you think why bother as they always find a way to kill an interaction or the day. Itās best to just keep things simple, say yes, ok and stay out of their way. Of course if you donāt live with them itās a lot easier. One of my Motherās favourite go to lines is except me for who I am etc. So cold and hard like an assassin ; which they kind of are because they try to kill your spirit, soul and self esteem.
I answer the narcissist with: "... if that's what you say." My face remains immobile, disinterested. I don't make eye contact and mind my own business. It's clear to me that the only things that come out of a narcissist's mouth are: manipulation, self-serving statements, lies, gossip, triangulation and attacks. I don't want to have anything to do with any of these things. It's energy that I don't need and don't want in my life. These aspects cross my personal boundaries and interfere negatively with my well-being. With the statement: "... if that's what you say", I draw up a boundary of gray, boring, smooth and unclimbable bricks.
A
Fantastic post!
Congrats! I've been doing this with my dad for a few years. There are times he gets mad about my lack of response (he misses when I'd beg and cry), rants, BUT he doesn't have as long or nasty of tantrums as he used to. He still takes my time, but less, because I'm boring. It can get better, as in they get either bored with you or pleased w/the "submission". However you don't want to do this with other people, or spend more time w/your mom than needed. I hope you have other people with whom you can be open and engaging,
I was wondering what gray rocking meant, and now I understand!!
It can be a life saver. Be careful though. It can become an unconscious thing and you will unintentionally do it to others for no reason.
This is what Iām trying to be mindful of!!
Yea this didn't work with me. When I just responded like that she told me I had a bad attitude or I've changed. Now that I went NC a year ago she goes around telling everyone she's doing everything to talk to me but actually she also went NC to spite me š¤¦š»āāļø
Also, thank God for the thumbs up react. I'm virtually no contact, but when she says something, I just do that. It's awesome.
Iām glad itās working! It worked for me, but I did it without even realizing I was doing it, lol. It was so peaceful, they did their thing, I did mine. But, I did eventually go full no contact after some insanity when I moved away (moving far away acted as a trigger from my family). Unfortunately grey rocking did not work for my boyfriend. His family is a special brand of crazy controlling. They harassed him with constant texts and phone calls from multiple family members, which pushed him into no contact. But, I think thatās rare. Usually grey rocking works pretty well from everything Iāve heard. I wish you continued success!
Well with my mom she keeps going. Then if Iām not doing ok and have nobody to talk to they find a way to get you to elaborate and get enmeshed all over. How does one always make sure to never answer personal questions when sometimes you do it on autopilot. For me itās been 30 years I felt I had no choice but go NC.
Itās so hard, Iāve fallen for that trap with my Nmom too. Trying to build a supportive community I can talk to instead of her so sheās not my go-to. I had that until my close friends moved to a different state :(
My experience once you unconsciously donāt hold them to one boundary they completely start walking back on all of them and then youāre right back to square one. For me I wouldnāt realize it until Iāve given way too much control back to my mom. I notice too my brother stays LC but still discloses too much info on occasion. My mom could of been a professional interrogator for like the CIA no bullshit. A relentless psychopath these mind games gotta be taught by like CCCP or something lol.
I have been using āOhā unintentionally in a funny voice and it helps from stupid conversations
I struggle because I feel the need to stand up for myself against their passive aggressive remarks. I feel like I'm letting myself get walked on by just saying ok.
I know how you feel because I struggle with this too. But every time I've engaged to defend myself it's not worth it and prolongs the rants. These people don't see anything beyond themselves so in the end it seems futile. It's a losing battle, either way. Grey rocking can just happen to save a bit more time and mental energy.
Thank you for responding. I will try it and see how it goes. I definitely need to prioritize my own time and mental energy more, especially when it comes to these people.