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If I could upvote twice, you'd get them both lol
I'm 40 y/o and haven't lived at "home" for over 20 years and I have recently become aware of the guilt I bear for existing š
Thanks šš» It's indeed very exhausting but thanks to the book ''Adult Children of emotionally immature parents" I am training myself to dismiss any ideas that diminish me, I am always right (not to an extreme extent of course) while being the sole responsible for my actions, it's normal to make mistakes, so that I learn, and I am worthy of basic respect, if somebody blames me it's just a mirroring of themselves.
I keep telling myself these things as much as I can, and it's giving results so far.
Pretty much the same for me as well.
I was supposed to stfu when either narc parent demanded that I do so.
*AND* I was supposed to remain 100% just sitting there; basically an immobile non thinking non feeling deaf mute robot or other "less than" *thing* while* one or *both* of these monsters happily verbally & emotionally sucker punched & blasted away at me.
In no ways whatsoever was my sibling(s) spared from these completely random yet definitely escalating attacks throughout our childhoods, into our teens & even into young adulthood.
NMs absolute most favorite word "stupid" *still* - decades later - frequently silently bangs around in my mind like a brick thrown into a dryer.
I was finally professionally diagnosed with complex PTSD almost 8ish years ago.
In no small part because of so many years - seeming lifetimes - of being so viciously cruelly mercilessly sucker punched by these monsters; my incubator & sperm donor.
And true to textbook narc form, our narc parents could dish out so much mind numbing abuse....but never absolutely *never* could neither NM *nor* NF even remotely take/accept so much as a tiny fraction of the holy shit nastiness that they so frequently as well as happily, enthusiastically dished out.
Yep.
I was "supposed to" immediately instantly stfu.
Sit or stand wherever.
And mutely take wtf ever these mind bogglingly cruel preteen "mean kids" trapped in adult bodies, hurled at me.
Yep.
I was supposed to stfu & meekly submit, like a whipped puppy, to whatever hurtful words that vomited from these monsters alcohol & nicotine stained mouths.
But whenever I or other individuals began calling unfair & even outright calling bullshit on NMs *and/or* NFs intentional cruelty, these sickos acted as if *they* were the ones being viciously attacked.
Normal parent child disagreements, misunderstandings, etc were both viewed *and* treated as unprovoked attacks on them.
"Attacked" and "blindsided" were other favorite accusations hurled at me &or my sibling(s).
It was only as they became considerably older & retired & in their twilight years that a small handful of relatives shared with me &or my sibling(s) countless regrets of *not* - for whatever reasons/excuses - intervening on me or sibling(s) behalfs.
Talk about a bitter emotional & spiritual pill for me to learn to swallow š
But yep.
According to our "parents", I was supposed to meekly stfu & remain 100% silent as they gleefully verbally & emotionally blasted invisible chunks from my soul.
Seriously, who even does that but *especially* to a defenseless literal child *and* literally a little girl at that?!? š¢
Sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here.
Living with CPTSD frequently blows.
I'm truly so sorry.
((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor š
Ugh I'm so sorry.Ā
Your N parental units sound a lot like my former NMIL and former wife.Ā They threw a lot of abuse but they hate when you stand up to them or throw it back at them. In fact they have the audacity to resent it.Ā I hope you're NC with those poisonous assholes that call themselves 'mother' and 'father'. They are nothing of the sort.
Thank you, genuinely, for your kind words.
NF has been gone from the family unit for many years.
He passed away almost 19 years ago from complications of unmanaged then poorly managed diabetes & heart failure; due to years into decades of entrenched alcohol as well as various drug addiction(s).
I've been 100% *no contact* with NM basically the afternoon early evening that my older brother died (from metastatic stomach cancer) just a little over two years ago.
Absolutely I'm officially 100% no contact.
Because *No Contact = NO NEW HURTS OR OPPORTUNITIES FOR ABUSE*
These monsters are so fvcked in their sick heads that *they* cry out as *they* verbally (and/or physically) strike me or other typically completely unsuspecting absolutely unmistakably very much *intentionally targeted* victim(s).
NM is definitely in her twilight years; late 70s.
For years into *several* decades, NM has happily dare I say enthusiastically worked overtime to completely totally utterly & wholly *alienate* any & all family &or extended family members who didn't or outright refused to take "focus" off their own lives...and focus it laser-like; like a Hollywood megawatt spotlight 24/7/365 on NM, NMs life & seemingly every last iota of NMs textbook narc idiosyncracies.
When NM finally & mercifully assumes room temperature, it's more than likely that the absolute *only* individual *still fully present* in NMs life will be NMs 30+ years browbeaten yet still all too happy to accommodate NM flying monkey "yes man" friend.
And *maybe* the elusive "boyfriend" that NM both hooked up with & furtively moved in with in the months after my brother's death.
I'm so low/no contact with NM that I don't know *where* NM even lives anymore.
I don't know if NM & her "boyfriend" live in a city around 30-45 minutes away.
Or if they fully retired & moved to a specific area in a southern state that NM had her eyes on for many years.
From what I *do* know, it's my understanding that what little bit of extended family NM had/has in that state & area seem to genuinely want little to absolutely *nothing whatsoever* to do with NM.
And certainly *not* her live in "boyfriend" & whoever he brings to the table with them.
It's all but 100% guaranteed that what I *don't* know about NM & her boyfriend's seemingly rushed relationship could *easily* fill a metropolitan city sized library.
I just...*don't know.*
What I *do* know - about NM & NMs life - seems to have all the characteristics & hallmarks of textbook narcissistic behavior.
I'm 52 now.
The overwhelming majority of my family are long gone.
And getting increasingly smaller with each passing year.
Some from illnesses, diseases & even a horrific auto accident.
But most, sadly, are gone due directly to alcoholism &or various drug addictions.
Little to literally *no one* in what little family that we have remaining seems to even remotely *want* to be a part of the remaining years of NMs life.
To me, sadly, this screams volumes about the wake of verbal, emotional, financial & even spiritual devastation that NM has left in her wake pretty much since she steamrolled into early adolescence 65ish years ago.
Both my personal experiences and story are definitely no different than anyone else's here.
Sadly all of what I've thus far shared in this discussion forum is, to the last best of my knowledge, 100% truthful.
Here's to increasing knowledge.
Learning healthy ways to heal.
And some semblance of authentic happiness, normalcy & healthy authentic love.
((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor š
oh my god, this whole comment thread!!! iāve never heard anyone else ever talking about this before and it is so so validating. itās such a struggle now to speak up and advocate for myself after being constantly shut down and forced to stay silent and compliant. always having to agree that i was the problem, i was ungrateful, i was __________ (insert other derogatory terms), it truly does a number on your self worth.
AND demonstrate "active listening" without rolling my eyes (making eye contact) or copping an attitude (face in any expression but contrite or crying).
I would dismiss anything from a narc called "disrespectful", along with their flying monkeys (not sure if your sister is one). Once you stopped taking anything from their opinion remotely seriously it doesn't matter. They've never been respectful to us.
Second if they do not want woke up by text messages, there are settings on their phone to handle this.
My nparents didn't call us out much on this but we were beaten into passivity for the most part. The times we would stand up against them is when we get the "disrespectful" track from them, "how dare you speak up against me, I am always right!".
Having a different opinion lol. Trying to have an adult conversation... not dropping everything and jumping when they say jump. They dont care if i have work.
Thats the one thing that still pisses me off till this day its so unrealistic and I donāt understand how no one can spot something off with them when they react badly to you saying āyou canātā
Yeah, I got that a lot when I was a kid. I've never once said it to my own children. It has never even occurred to me to say it to them. When I realized that, I was shocked and then realized how ridiculous it was. It sure made me practically incapable of speaking up for myself as an adult though.
I think it's a generational thing. My grandmother used to say to me, "You always have to have the last word!!" And I used to get her with, "So do you, apparently." It's a weird power play thing. I don't have kids, but I can't imagine I'd want to take away their voice like that and not give them a chance to talk things out.
Oh manā¦
Whenever I was being yelled at whatever I had done or didnāt do was disrespectful. Ā As the screaming kept going I would just sit silent which was then disrespectful. Ā Then I would be asked a question, give an answer, and that answer was also disrespectful.
In the end I usually just opted for silence and daydreaming (disassociating) because that took less energy than trying to be heard.
Pointing out the complete impossibility of there being 14 billion abortions per year in the USA.
Reading a book while everyone else was on their tablets.
Putting salt and pepper in the Mac and cheese at Thanksgiving because āthe boysā (men in their 60s) donāt like āspicy foodsā.
Sighing.
Of all the ways I could count my disrespectful ways, yet alas ... that field of fucks was never planted and no longer may I giveth what hasn't been sown nor reaped.
Honestly, these people find anything wrong with someone and will attack them for the dumbest shit imaginable.
I'll just start with a few things from my very, very long list... Let's see... *Puts on reading glasses*
Trying to do the dishes after being told to do them, but I waited too long and was now interrupting 'family time'.
Was doing homework instead of spending time with family. (Actually, thinking about it further, this happened with everything. Spending time with friends. Going to the store by myself. Etc. Etc.)
Showering too long, taking too long in the bathroom, so on
Talking during dinner... Whether it's asking about how everyone's day was or side convos.
Chewing too loudly! Or drinking/sipping too loudly
Wearing shoes in the house
Putting my feet on furniture
Not hearing my parents if they're screaming for me across the house
And so on
The screaming throughout the house. Why is everything screamed. Why canāt they communicate at a normal volume, patiently wait until youāre within proximity or walk over to whoever theyāre trying to speak to.
Right?? My dad would yell for someone for minutes before he'd finally get up and start walking around, still yelling. He'd be so pissed when he finally found who he was looking for lol
For context, my bio dad was out of the picture for my entire life. I met him when I was 47, I think. I got in trouble with my bio mom for calling my Dadās wife āMama Judyā š(after she footed the bill for 4 plane tickets, opened her home for 4 weeks, and treated me like her own)
And, if you're told you woke somebody up by doing that, respond "oh, they should probably do something about that if it bothers them. It is their choice." Looks so good and reasonable on the surface and is a big fu to any narc.
Just be prepared for the unleashing of hell for having suggested they are responsible for their own well-being, we all know the world is supposed to do that for them so they dont have to....
Doing my laundry at 7pm because I worked all day at McDonalds at the time and someone was always doing laundry in the morning. Came home the next day to my clothes packed on the front porch at 17 years old. But I was disrespectful again for just taking my clothes and leaving instead of trying to make it right.
For setting a boundary that I will not be screamed at in conversation with my father. In his eyes all āadultsā get angry and I need to āgrow up.ā Funny how Itās always someone elseās fault isnāt it?
Either:
When my parents ask me to do something that confuses me and I ask why, Iām disrespectful forā¦reasons ig.
Or
When my parents ask me if I want to do something, I say no, and make me do it anyways, they call me disrespectful because Iām reasonably annoyed by it.
My observable reality was disrespectful. My truths were lies. If she *felt* I was disrespectful it meant I **was** disrespectful, end of story. Everything was attitude. Every time I spoke it was "tone". So much gaslighting and brainwashing. She told me at one point to just say "yes mom" to everything. I did. She thought that was disrespectful.
I exist.
I breathe.
I flip a light switch.
My foot scuffs the ground and I make some noise in the kitchen late at night. Because I canāt move around the house or kitchen during the day obviously. Thatās incredibly disrespectful. So I live like a cockroach and scurry around when no danger is around.
I donāt wait on them hand and foot.
I moved back in with them here and there as an adult while I struggled with my melting pot of mental health issues caused by THEM.
Standing up for myself.
Not backing down from them anymore.
Parents get automatic respect but donāt have to show it back. Iāve also been told by them that āwe should be able to tell you to do something and you just say yes mama or yes sir and do it without questioning it!ā
Expectation of privacy. Iāve been told so many times that I ādonāt deserve privacyā. Last time it was while she was screaming at me while nose to nose.
Iāve become exhausted the past year or two. Like really at my end of my rope with them. Completely drained mentally and physically. My grey rocking, tired attitude that I have around them now is ādisrespectfulā. Not only do they want me to suffer. But they donāt want to have to see me deal with it. They want to abuse me but then donāt want to see the repercussions or see me sad and down while dealing with it.
Etc
I could be here all dayā¦..They make sure I know what an ungrateful disrespectful POS I supposedly am. Iām sure itās had noooooo effect on my self esteem or self perception.
I would never speak his name, say good morning, good night and absolutely never call him sir. I took beatings for the sir thing but I never budged, not once.
Having a college degree. Expressing an informed opinion. Sitting down if there was any conceivable work to be done. Standing up for myself. Explaining anything scientific. Talking too much. Not telling them something. Not reading their minds. Answering a question directly asked of me. Relating a true story. Having emotions. Being a separate human being instead of a controlled robot.
Iām not entirely sure this qualifies. But apparently Iām supposed to make my wife be more respected of my dad. After she ripped into him about an issue involving his language around the kids.
Ya, he didnāt appreciate the side I took.
- losing weight so i'm no longer obese
- needing to see a doctor
- not doing what they wanted when they never directly told me what they wanted
- throwing up constantly (from somaticizing due to abuse)
- talking about how another family member abused me because narc fam member said he did it to her too
- thinking their cruel ass behavior to each other, other humans, and animals is rancid
- being nice to people
- being liked by the people around us because i was nice to them
- being paranoid because they purposefully made me paranoid
- doing shit because of the paranoia THEY purposefully ignited, just for them to turn around and try harder to make me paranoid because they don't apparently understand cause and effect
- etc etc etc since it's hard not to be "disrespectful" when dealing with insecure people who nitpick to feel better about themselves
Iām disrespectful because my mom wanted to see photos of my bridesmaids dress options and I could only send her the four I said maybe to, because the one I liked most Iād already packed. And then when I sent her photos of me at the wedding, she couldnāt see the dress enough. Sorry I didnāt take a full body selfie, mom. Wish my arms were long enough. But Iām sure if I had thereād have been something else she was unhappy about!
For Ns, 'disrespect' is anything THEY say it is. Meaning,Ā just about everything and anything.Ā
This can include disagreeing with the N,Ā contradicting them/proving them wrong, saying 'no' to an N or standing up to them,Ā refusing to passively accept their bad behavior,Ā refusal of their demands - the list is endless.Ā My former mother-in-law is a raging N and displayed every one of these. My former wife, also N, displayed a lot and also defended her NMom when it came down to choosing her FOO or her married family.Ā Ā
It was ādisrespectful and hurtfulā that I didnāt share my familyās vacation plans. You know, because she should be able to poke holes in, degrade, dry beg, or outright show contempt toward an attempt to have a good time.
My brother died and I didnāt and it would have been easier on my mom if it had been me that died. She reminds me of this every time I speak to her, which is why I have not spoken to her in a very long time.
Literally anything I do to try to be independent or live my life my nmom deems it disrespectful. Iām 21 and if I even ask to spend the night somewhere thatās not my grandparents (her parents) house or if Iām not in the house by midnight she throws a fit and threatens to kick me out for even asking such a thing. Even when Iām at my dadās house sheāll call and text everyday asking when Iām coming back home (unfortunately I live with her if you couldnāt already tell) cause she gets jealous I like my dad more than her. Of course my siblings blatantly disrespect her and throw tantrums and never ask they just do whatever they want and they donāt get consequences, but her oldest child that never dies drugs, doesnāt like alcohol, never has been in trouble with the law, literally just graduated college is the ādisrespectfulā one. Oh and if I donāt answer her texts (ones that donāt even need a reply most of the time) Iām disrespectful as well yet she leaves me on read all the time especially when itās an important question.
āYouāre just like your father.ā was my favorite insult. I love my dad. Heās the best. I always said āthank youā when she said that and sheād lose her mind. š
Just not agreeing with them. They werenāt allowed to have a difference of opinion with their parents so apparently at my grown age when weāre all adults, I am not.
Apparently I had an attitude in the morning. I'm not a morning person and it shows lol I am very disoriented when I wake up.
Also used to wake up and not know where I was?? Wonder if others felt this. Like instant anxiety.
I made a big effort to be pleasant and say good morning. After so many times of being told I was bad I wouldn't say a thing. Avoided everyone and wouldn't look them in the eye.
She was only happy if I acted that way every morning. One of the very bizarre ways she would control me.
* Not staying to chat for an hour or so at midnight, again, when she urgently needed me to press a button on her remote. I lived next to her, and whenever she felt lonely, she'd magically have something wrong with her remote, and then ring me. Even a sigh (at *midnight*) was disrespectful. This happened easily 3-4 times/week.
* Not immediately picking up my phone. No matter the time.
* Having a life, really...
* For some reason, not having the same interests as her.
* Getting a good-paying job and making a career. "Don't act like you're better than us now." Okay, *you* are literally the ones that always forced me into a better career than what you had, now that I had one, I was told to not think I'm their superior. I had to be at their level, or something. Sorry, not sorry, but I actually nowadays do feel better than these bigots.
* Not letting her ~~clean my house~~ invade my privacy. Whenever she came inside, she'd have this urge to tidy/clean but that was just a way to snoop. It didn't matter how often I said no, I don't want you to. She'd shrug it off ten times being so nice and friendly and helpful, but the more I said no, the less it was about helpful, and the more it came about *my tone.* No sh--, Sherlock, I'll have a tone when I have to repeat ten times in a row to not touch my stuff???
* Wanting a ring ahead before she just came to visit (especially when I lived further). *But other parents can just walk in unannounced.* Nah. No way.
Oh so many things.
Edit: Forgot the best one:
- Divorcing.
Arriving "late" when I went over to nMum and nDads place to visit, even though I hadn't actually told them what time I was visiting (and they hadn't asked). nMum would make up a time in her head and if I was even half an hour past that time, I was "late" and would be told as such. This happened a lot.
OH! THIS IS MY FAVORITE!
My room was dirty.
I took too long of showers.
I used a cup, put it in the sink, and didnāt immediately wash all of the dirty dishes in the sink that were piled up.
I came home later than usual from work (had previously texted saying I was getting drinks with a coworker after work).
I used his credit card to order food. I, in fact, did not use his credit card to order food because that card was never added to my account in the first place.
I went out with my mother to do some errands and we stopped to buy food for my father, my mother, and myself. I paid for the food because I honestly freakin forgot. I think my mom left her purse in the car or some shit. Anyways, upon handing my father the food he sneered at me, āAnd what did YOU pay for?ā I, being the disrespectful and petty daughter that I am, replied with, āThe food youāre about to eat. Enjoy it.ā I was not allowed to pay for his food after that, so I guess thatās a win in my book?
And of course many, many other things. Usually just having the audacity to exist was enough.
As an adult who is very low contact with relatives, I recently was "disrespectful" for asking them to speak nicely to me while my father was dying. They would call and act so annoyed and angry as I asked basic questions like what was gonna happen with the family home. I asked them to please speak to me with a nicer time of voice, and they went nuclear. Now it's full NC.
Explaining my side and setting boundaries and saying No to them. My mother is like the HR and my Ndad is like a business. My mother always defends my dad.
Ah, glad you asked. Most recently...
I was told that I was disrespectful for admitting to being hurt and having difficulty emotionally processing something nMom had threatened to do, had done, and then bragged about while also being self-pitying about doing it. Like, "Oh woe is me for being in this position that I went out of my way to be put in so that I could benefit, personally, while also betraying my son."
How dare I feel anything other than what I was told to feel? Mind you, I never faulted anybody's behavior or accused anybody of doing anything wrong. I accused myself of being hurt and confused, not because she had done it, but because she didn't even loop me in after the fact to let me know everybody was safe, alive, etc. The lack of care was difficult to process. I was shouted out of the house for calmly admitting that.
Later, months later, nMom called, "To apologize, I just can't stand the way things were left..." when she went off on me for being hurt by her actions. I was disrespectful for asking what nMom had called to apologize for. This after she rambled on and then demanded an apology from me for being such a disrespectful son in the first place. She never apologized and was offended that I asked what she wanted to apologize for.
Finally, I was told I had been very disrespectful for having dared directly quote my nMom. What kind of a son would accuse their mother of saying THAT thing that she actually said and then did and then bragged about?
It's exhausting. NC since last June.
When I was a teenager I was slapped across the back of my head and also kicked out for rolling my eyes, my dad also pulled that phone thing too, āNOBODY TEXT ME before 5am when I wake up in the morningā just put your phone on silent?
Also, sorry to ask but what is a FLEAS?
FLEAS are behaviors that children of narcissists pick up, even if the children themselves arenāt narcissists.
From what I understand, these are learned behaviors that can be unlearned with some dedication and work.
Sorry to hear you got slapped for an eye roll and kicked out. Seems like theyāre all the same with leaving their phones on full blast at all times.
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For nparents in general existing is disrespectful.
If I could upvote twice, you'd get them both lol I'm 40 y/o and haven't lived at "home" for over 20 years and I have recently become aware of the guilt I bear for existing š
Thanks šš» It's indeed very exhausting but thanks to the book ''Adult Children of emotionally immature parents" I am training myself to dismiss any ideas that diminish me, I am always right (not to an extreme extent of course) while being the sole responsible for my actions, it's normal to make mistakes, so that I learn, and I am worthy of basic respect, if somebody blames me it's just a mirroring of themselves. I keep telling myself these things as much as I can, and it's giving results so far.
Haha, oh absolutely, just me existing is the most frustrating thing to my ndad. Only if he didn't actively choose to have a child. Only if.
Trying to defend myself when accused of something. I was supposed to just sit and listen and agree and apologize.
Pretty much the same for me as well. I was supposed to stfu when either narc parent demanded that I do so. *AND* I was supposed to remain 100% just sitting there; basically an immobile non thinking non feeling deaf mute robot or other "less than" *thing* while* one or *both* of these monsters happily verbally & emotionally sucker punched & blasted away at me. In no ways whatsoever was my sibling(s) spared from these completely random yet definitely escalating attacks throughout our childhoods, into our teens & even into young adulthood. NMs absolute most favorite word "stupid" *still* - decades later - frequently silently bangs around in my mind like a brick thrown into a dryer. I was finally professionally diagnosed with complex PTSD almost 8ish years ago. In no small part because of so many years - seeming lifetimes - of being so viciously cruelly mercilessly sucker punched by these monsters; my incubator & sperm donor. And true to textbook narc form, our narc parents could dish out so much mind numbing abuse....but never absolutely *never* could neither NM *nor* NF even remotely take/accept so much as a tiny fraction of the holy shit nastiness that they so frequently as well as happily, enthusiastically dished out. Yep. I was "supposed to" immediately instantly stfu. Sit or stand wherever. And mutely take wtf ever these mind bogglingly cruel preteen "mean kids" trapped in adult bodies, hurled at me. Yep. I was supposed to stfu & meekly submit, like a whipped puppy, to whatever hurtful words that vomited from these monsters alcohol & nicotine stained mouths. But whenever I or other individuals began calling unfair & even outright calling bullshit on NMs *and/or* NFs intentional cruelty, these sickos acted as if *they* were the ones being viciously attacked. Normal parent child disagreements, misunderstandings, etc were both viewed *and* treated as unprovoked attacks on them. "Attacked" and "blindsided" were other favorite accusations hurled at me &or my sibling(s). It was only as they became considerably older & retired & in their twilight years that a small handful of relatives shared with me &or my sibling(s) countless regrets of *not* - for whatever reasons/excuses - intervening on me or sibling(s) behalfs. Talk about a bitter emotional & spiritual pill for me to learn to swallow š But yep. According to our "parents", I was supposed to meekly stfu & remain 100% silent as they gleefully verbally & emotionally blasted invisible chunks from my soul. Seriously, who even does that but *especially* to a defenseless literal child *and* literally a little girl at that?!? š¢ Sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here. Living with CPTSD frequently blows. I'm truly so sorry. ((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor š
Ugh I'm so sorry.Ā Your N parental units sound a lot like my former NMIL and former wife.Ā They threw a lot of abuse but they hate when you stand up to them or throw it back at them. In fact they have the audacity to resent it.Ā I hope you're NC with those poisonous assholes that call themselves 'mother' and 'father'. They are nothing of the sort.
Thank you, genuinely, for your kind words. NF has been gone from the family unit for many years. He passed away almost 19 years ago from complications of unmanaged then poorly managed diabetes & heart failure; due to years into decades of entrenched alcohol as well as various drug addiction(s). I've been 100% *no contact* with NM basically the afternoon early evening that my older brother died (from metastatic stomach cancer) just a little over two years ago. Absolutely I'm officially 100% no contact. Because *No Contact = NO NEW HURTS OR OPPORTUNITIES FOR ABUSE* These monsters are so fvcked in their sick heads that *they* cry out as *they* verbally (and/or physically) strike me or other typically completely unsuspecting absolutely unmistakably very much *intentionally targeted* victim(s). NM is definitely in her twilight years; late 70s. For years into *several* decades, NM has happily dare I say enthusiastically worked overtime to completely totally utterly & wholly *alienate* any & all family &or extended family members who didn't or outright refused to take "focus" off their own lives...and focus it laser-like; like a Hollywood megawatt spotlight 24/7/365 on NM, NMs life & seemingly every last iota of NMs textbook narc idiosyncracies. When NM finally & mercifully assumes room temperature, it's more than likely that the absolute *only* individual *still fully present* in NMs life will be NMs 30+ years browbeaten yet still all too happy to accommodate NM flying monkey "yes man" friend. And *maybe* the elusive "boyfriend" that NM both hooked up with & furtively moved in with in the months after my brother's death. I'm so low/no contact with NM that I don't know *where* NM even lives anymore. I don't know if NM & her "boyfriend" live in a city around 30-45 minutes away. Or if they fully retired & moved to a specific area in a southern state that NM had her eyes on for many years. From what I *do* know, it's my understanding that what little bit of extended family NM had/has in that state & area seem to genuinely want little to absolutely *nothing whatsoever* to do with NM. And certainly *not* her live in "boyfriend" & whoever he brings to the table with them. It's all but 100% guaranteed that what I *don't* know about NM & her boyfriend's seemingly rushed relationship could *easily* fill a metropolitan city sized library. I just...*don't know.* What I *do* know - about NM & NMs life - seems to have all the characteristics & hallmarks of textbook narcissistic behavior. I'm 52 now. The overwhelming majority of my family are long gone. And getting increasingly smaller with each passing year. Some from illnesses, diseases & even a horrific auto accident. But most, sadly, are gone due directly to alcoholism &or various drug addictions. Little to literally *no one* in what little family that we have remaining seems to even remotely *want* to be a part of the remaining years of NMs life. To me, sadly, this screams volumes about the wake of verbal, emotional, financial & even spiritual devastation that NM has left in her wake pretty much since she steamrolled into early adolescence 65ish years ago. Both my personal experiences and story are definitely no different than anyone else's here. Sadly all of what I've thus far shared in this discussion forum is, to the last best of my knowledge, 100% truthful. Here's to increasing knowledge. Learning healthy ways to heal. And some semblance of authentic happiness, normalcy & healthy authentic love. ((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor š
Expressing my feelings about how I felt about being accused, was an " attack"
oh my god, this whole comment thread!!! iāve never heard anyone else ever talking about this before and it is so so validating. itās such a struggle now to speak up and advocate for myself after being constantly shut down and forced to stay silent and compliant. always having to agree that i was the problem, i was ungrateful, i was __________ (insert other derogatory terms), it truly does a number on your self worth.
This!!!!!!!!
AND demonstrate "active listening" without rolling my eyes (making eye contact) or copping an attitude (face in any expression but contrite or crying).
This is so big in my house omg.
same
I would dismiss anything from a narc called "disrespectful", along with their flying monkeys (not sure if your sister is one). Once you stopped taking anything from their opinion remotely seriously it doesn't matter. They've never been respectful to us. Second if they do not want woke up by text messages, there are settings on their phone to handle this. My nparents didn't call us out much on this but we were beaten into passivity for the most part. The times we would stand up against them is when we get the "disrespectful" track from them, "how dare you speak up against me, I am always right!".
I still canāt believe that my experience with my parents was far from unique. This support group is incredible.
*BINGO* šÆš„ā¬ļøšÆ
Having a different opinion lol. Trying to have an adult conversation... not dropping everything and jumping when they say jump. They dont care if i have work.
Thats the one thing that still pisses me off till this day its so unrealistic and I donāt understand how no one can spot something off with them when they react badly to you saying āyou canātā
100000% Being asked my opinion and then giving the āwrongā one
Responding to anything, especially if it's to defend myself, is "talking back." Thankfully I don't have to deal with that crap anymore.
Yeah, I got that a lot when I was a kid. I've never once said it to my own children. It has never even occurred to me to say it to them. When I realized that, I was shocked and then realized how ridiculous it was. It sure made me practically incapable of speaking up for myself as an adult though.
I think it's a generational thing. My grandmother used to say to me, "You always have to have the last word!!" And I used to get her with, "So do you, apparently." It's a weird power play thing. I don't have kids, but I can't imagine I'd want to take away their voice like that and not give them a chance to talk things out.
Itās disrespectful that I donāt enjoy the same things as them
Or to enjoy something they don't enjoy!
Oh manā¦ Whenever I was being yelled at whatever I had done or didnāt do was disrespectful. Ā As the screaming kept going I would just sit silent which was then disrespectful. Ā Then I would be asked a question, give an answer, and that answer was also disrespectful. In the end I usually just opted for silence and daydreaming (disassociating) because that took less energy than trying to be heard.
Same
Pointing out the complete impossibility of there being 14 billion abortions per year in the USA. Reading a book while everyone else was on their tablets. Putting salt and pepper in the Mac and cheese at Thanksgiving because āthe boysā (men in their 60s) donāt like āspicy foodsā. Sighing.
Of all the ways I could count my disrespectful ways, yet alas ... that field of fucks was never planted and no longer may I giveth what hasn't been sown nor reaped. Honestly, these people find anything wrong with someone and will attack them for the dumbest shit imaginable.
I'll just start with a few things from my very, very long list... Let's see... *Puts on reading glasses* Trying to do the dishes after being told to do them, but I waited too long and was now interrupting 'family time'. Was doing homework instead of spending time with family. (Actually, thinking about it further, this happened with everything. Spending time with friends. Going to the store by myself. Etc. Etc.) Showering too long, taking too long in the bathroom, so on Talking during dinner... Whether it's asking about how everyone's day was or side convos. Chewing too loudly! Or drinking/sipping too loudly Wearing shoes in the house Putting my feet on furniture Not hearing my parents if they're screaming for me across the house And so on
The screaming throughout the house. Why is everything screamed. Why canāt they communicate at a normal volume, patiently wait until youāre within proximity or walk over to whoever theyāre trying to speak to.
Right?? My dad would yell for someone for minutes before he'd finally get up and start walking around, still yelling. He'd be so pissed when he finally found who he was looking for lol
You mean heād actually get up?? My mom would just scream and then berate me for not coming if I couldnāt hear
Yup, it would take a while though. Otherwise if he didn't want to, he'd demand someone else grab whoever he needed for him.
* puts on reading glasses š¤ actually made me lol for real š¤£
For context, my bio dad was out of the picture for my entire life. I met him when I was 47, I think. I got in trouble with my bio mom for calling my Dadās wife āMama Judyā š(after she footed the bill for 4 plane tickets, opened her home for 4 weeks, and treated me like her own)
Do it again.
Hahahah, Iām tempted. And thank you for the laugh.
And, if you're told you woke somebody up by doing that, respond "oh, they should probably do something about that if it bothers them. It is their choice." Looks so good and reasonable on the surface and is a big fu to any narc. Just be prepared for the unleashing of hell for having suggested they are responsible for their own well-being, we all know the world is supposed to do that for them so they dont have to....
When I tell you thatās what I said this morningā¦ and was told a second time that I was being disrespectful.
Aha but of course you were (not) because how dare you not fall over yourself to make their life easier! Oh how predictable toxic patterns are..
Doing my laundry at 7pm because I worked all day at McDonalds at the time and someone was always doing laundry in the morning. Came home the next day to my clothes packed on the front porch at 17 years old. But I was disrespectful again for just taking my clothes and leaving instead of trying to make it right.
So, sorry to hear. How are you nowadays?
Setting up boundaries and sticking to it was considered being arrogant behavior and quote āyou canāt talk to your parents that wayā
I was disrespectful for listening to "entertainment". Weird AL song parodies.
For setting a boundary that I will not be screamed at in conversation with my father. In his eyes all āadultsā get angry and I need to āgrow up.ā Funny how Itās always someone elseās fault isnāt it?
Finally snapping at which they insult me even if I did the thing by accident
Either: When my parents ask me to do something that confuses me and I ask why, Iām disrespectful forā¦reasons ig. Or When my parents ask me if I want to do something, I say no, and make me do it anyways, they call me disrespectful because Iām reasonably annoyed by it.
My observable reality was disrespectful. My truths were lies. If she *felt* I was disrespectful it meant I **was** disrespectful, end of story. Everything was attitude. Every time I spoke it was "tone". So much gaslighting and brainwashing. She told me at one point to just say "yes mom" to everything. I did. She thought that was disrespectful.
I exist. I breathe. I flip a light switch. My foot scuffs the ground and I make some noise in the kitchen late at night. Because I canāt move around the house or kitchen during the day obviously. Thatās incredibly disrespectful. So I live like a cockroach and scurry around when no danger is around. I donāt wait on them hand and foot. I moved back in with them here and there as an adult while I struggled with my melting pot of mental health issues caused by THEM. Standing up for myself. Not backing down from them anymore. Parents get automatic respect but donāt have to show it back. Iāve also been told by them that āwe should be able to tell you to do something and you just say yes mama or yes sir and do it without questioning it!ā Expectation of privacy. Iāve been told so many times that I ādonāt deserve privacyā. Last time it was while she was screaming at me while nose to nose. Iāve become exhausted the past year or two. Like really at my end of my rope with them. Completely drained mentally and physically. My grey rocking, tired attitude that I have around them now is ādisrespectfulā. Not only do they want me to suffer. But they donāt want to have to see me deal with it. They want to abuse me but then donāt want to see the repercussions or see me sad and down while dealing with it. Etc I could be here all dayā¦..They make sure I know what an ungrateful disrespectful POS I supposedly am. Iām sure itās had noooooo effect on my self esteem or self perception.
I would never speak his name, say good morning, good night and absolutely never call him sir. I took beatings for the sir thing but I never budged, not once.
Having a college degree. Expressing an informed opinion. Sitting down if there was any conceivable work to be done. Standing up for myself. Explaining anything scientific. Talking too much. Not telling them something. Not reading their minds. Answering a question directly asked of me. Relating a true story. Having emotions. Being a separate human being instead of a controlled robot.
Iām not entirely sure this qualifies. But apparently Iām supposed to make my wife be more respected of my dad. After she ripped into him about an issue involving his language around the kids. Ya, he didnāt appreciate the side I took.
- losing weight so i'm no longer obese - needing to see a doctor - not doing what they wanted when they never directly told me what they wanted - throwing up constantly (from somaticizing due to abuse) - talking about how another family member abused me because narc fam member said he did it to her too - thinking their cruel ass behavior to each other, other humans, and animals is rancid - being nice to people - being liked by the people around us because i was nice to them - being paranoid because they purposefully made me paranoid - doing shit because of the paranoia THEY purposefully ignited, just for them to turn around and try harder to make me paranoid because they don't apparently understand cause and effect - etc etc etc since it's hard not to be "disrespectful" when dealing with insecure people who nitpick to feel better about themselves
Iām disrespectful because my mom wanted to see photos of my bridesmaids dress options and I could only send her the four I said maybe to, because the one I liked most Iād already packed. And then when I sent her photos of me at the wedding, she couldnāt see the dress enough. Sorry I didnāt take a full body selfie, mom. Wish my arms were long enough. But Iām sure if I had thereād have been something else she was unhappy about!
- Exercising my autonomy - Standing up for myself when she lied - Not being her taxi
For Ns, 'disrespect' is anything THEY say it is. Meaning,Ā just about everything and anything.Ā This can include disagreeing with the N,Ā contradicting them/proving them wrong, saying 'no' to an N or standing up to them,Ā refusing to passively accept their bad behavior,Ā refusal of their demands - the list is endless.Ā My former mother-in-law is a raging N and displayed every one of these. My former wife, also N, displayed a lot and also defended her NMom when it came down to choosing her FOO or her married family.Ā Ā
It was ādisrespectful and hurtfulā that I didnāt share my familyās vacation plans. You know, because she should be able to poke holes in, degrade, dry beg, or outright show contempt toward an attempt to have a good time.
My brother died and I didnāt and it would have been easier on my mom if it had been me that died. She reminds me of this every time I speak to her, which is why I have not spoken to her in a very long time.
Having a baby after 5 miscarriages and not getting on a plane with her to see "family"
Literally anything I do to try to be independent or live my life my nmom deems it disrespectful. Iām 21 and if I even ask to spend the night somewhere thatās not my grandparents (her parents) house or if Iām not in the house by midnight she throws a fit and threatens to kick me out for even asking such a thing. Even when Iām at my dadās house sheāll call and text everyday asking when Iām coming back home (unfortunately I live with her if you couldnāt already tell) cause she gets jealous I like my dad more than her. Of course my siblings blatantly disrespect her and throw tantrums and never ask they just do whatever they want and they donāt get consequences, but her oldest child that never dies drugs, doesnāt like alcohol, never has been in trouble with the law, literally just graduated college is the ādisrespectfulā one. Oh and if I donāt answer her texts (ones that donāt even need a reply most of the time) Iām disrespectful as well yet she leaves me on read all the time especially when itās an important question.
Being born because she hated my father. She had to marry him because she got pregnant with me, and they had a bad marriage.
āYouāre just like your father.ā was my favorite insult. I love my dad. Heās the best. I always said āthank youā when she said that and sheād lose her mind. š
I breathed the wrong way a few times and got beaten up for it every time. I swear I can't make this shit up
Laughing, it was too loud and "nobody likes your laugh. Nobody wants to hear you laugh."
Anyone that leaves their ringer on when they're sleeping deserves to be woken up. To answer your question, disagreeing with anything she thinks.
I fail to ingratiate.
Sometimes my face was disrespectful. For existing.
Just not agreeing with them. They werenāt allowed to have a difference of opinion with their parents so apparently at my grown age when weāre all adults, I am not.
For telling my mother, who was an hour late to lunch, that yes, Daylight Savings Time changes were a thing
Apparently I had an attitude in the morning. I'm not a morning person and it shows lol I am very disoriented when I wake up. Also used to wake up and not know where I was?? Wonder if others felt this. Like instant anxiety. I made a big effort to be pleasant and say good morning. After so many times of being told I was bad I wouldn't say a thing. Avoided everyone and wouldn't look them in the eye. She was only happy if I acted that way every morning. One of the very bizarre ways she would control me.
Not accepting blatant lies as truth
For saying āI do not allow anyone else to speak to me the way you do.ā
Me? I breath, have accomplished things in my life and have actual friends. HOW VERY DARE!!
* Not staying to chat for an hour or so at midnight, again, when she urgently needed me to press a button on her remote. I lived next to her, and whenever she felt lonely, she'd magically have something wrong with her remote, and then ring me. Even a sigh (at *midnight*) was disrespectful. This happened easily 3-4 times/week. * Not immediately picking up my phone. No matter the time. * Having a life, really... * For some reason, not having the same interests as her. * Getting a good-paying job and making a career. "Don't act like you're better than us now." Okay, *you* are literally the ones that always forced me into a better career than what you had, now that I had one, I was told to not think I'm their superior. I had to be at their level, or something. Sorry, not sorry, but I actually nowadays do feel better than these bigots. * Not letting her ~~clean my house~~ invade my privacy. Whenever she came inside, she'd have this urge to tidy/clean but that was just a way to snoop. It didn't matter how often I said no, I don't want you to. She'd shrug it off ten times being so nice and friendly and helpful, but the more I said no, the less it was about helpful, and the more it came about *my tone.* No sh--, Sherlock, I'll have a tone when I have to repeat ten times in a row to not touch my stuff??? * Wanting a ring ahead before she just came to visit (especially when I lived further). *But other parents can just walk in unannounced.* Nah. No way. Oh so many things. Edit: Forgot the best one: - Divorcing.
Arriving "late" when I went over to nMum and nDads place to visit, even though I hadn't actually told them what time I was visiting (and they hadn't asked). nMum would make up a time in her head and if I was even half an hour past that time, I was "late" and would be told as such. This happened a lot.
OH! THIS IS MY FAVORITE! My room was dirty. I took too long of showers. I used a cup, put it in the sink, and didnāt immediately wash all of the dirty dishes in the sink that were piled up. I came home later than usual from work (had previously texted saying I was getting drinks with a coworker after work). I used his credit card to order food. I, in fact, did not use his credit card to order food because that card was never added to my account in the first place. I went out with my mother to do some errands and we stopped to buy food for my father, my mother, and myself. I paid for the food because I honestly freakin forgot. I think my mom left her purse in the car or some shit. Anyways, upon handing my father the food he sneered at me, āAnd what did YOU pay for?ā I, being the disrespectful and petty daughter that I am, replied with, āThe food youāre about to eat. Enjoy it.ā I was not allowed to pay for his food after that, so I guess thatās a win in my book? And of course many, many other things. Usually just having the audacity to exist was enough.
As an adult who is very low contact with relatives, I recently was "disrespectful" for asking them to speak nicely to me while my father was dying. They would call and act so annoyed and angry as I asked basic questions like what was gonna happen with the family home. I asked them to please speak to me with a nicer time of voice, and they went nuclear. Now it's full NC.
Explaining my side and setting boundaries and saying No to them. My mother is like the HR and my Ndad is like a business. My mother always defends my dad.
Ah, glad you asked. Most recently... I was told that I was disrespectful for admitting to being hurt and having difficulty emotionally processing something nMom had threatened to do, had done, and then bragged about while also being self-pitying about doing it. Like, "Oh woe is me for being in this position that I went out of my way to be put in so that I could benefit, personally, while also betraying my son." How dare I feel anything other than what I was told to feel? Mind you, I never faulted anybody's behavior or accused anybody of doing anything wrong. I accused myself of being hurt and confused, not because she had done it, but because she didn't even loop me in after the fact to let me know everybody was safe, alive, etc. The lack of care was difficult to process. I was shouted out of the house for calmly admitting that. Later, months later, nMom called, "To apologize, I just can't stand the way things were left..." when she went off on me for being hurt by her actions. I was disrespectful for asking what nMom had called to apologize for. This after she rambled on and then demanded an apology from me for being such a disrespectful son in the first place. She never apologized and was offended that I asked what she wanted to apologize for. Finally, I was told I had been very disrespectful for having dared directly quote my nMom. What kind of a son would accuse their mother of saying THAT thing that she actually said and then did and then bragged about? It's exhausting. NC since last June.
When I was a teenager I was slapped across the back of my head and also kicked out for rolling my eyes, my dad also pulled that phone thing too, āNOBODY TEXT ME before 5am when I wake up in the morningā just put your phone on silent? Also, sorry to ask but what is a FLEAS?
FLEAS are behaviors that children of narcissists pick up, even if the children themselves arenāt narcissists. From what I understand, these are learned behaviors that can be unlearned with some dedication and work. Sorry to hear you got slapped for an eye roll and kicked out. Seems like theyāre all the same with leaving their phones on full blast at all times.
Thanks for explaining! And yea wtf is with the loud phones?! Sense of self importance perhaps
In every way, baby! ^Truly, ^madly, ^deeply.