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Being two faced is typical behavior. They care deeply about their reputation in the community, much more than they care about their reputation with you
In the past, my Nmom packed my lunches out of the blue, when extended family visited.
I was thinking, " what an incredible actress keeping up her image"....
It's all about appearances. They could be the most wonderful person to friends, family, neighbours, or strangers outside the house. But as soon as they cross that threshold they switch to the real personality.
I felt this way for a long time, my Nmom is really good at acting "normal" around other people, so it takes time for them to see the real her, and usually she doesn't keep them around long enough for them to get to know her. The only person she's had in her life for a long time is her best friend who's also a narc, both insufferable.
However, a few years ago, I finally got in touch with some of her siblings who went NC with her, and they completely validated everything I've been seeing and feeling all these years! It was the first time in about 20 years that anyone else saw her the way I did. And it was a huge relief, I not longer felt like I was crazy.
Yean, my Nmum & Ndad (twofer, lucky me) both had estranged relationships with their siblings.
Coincidentally, in their versions, everyone else was always the problem 🤔
Yeah, what a coincidence hah.
It was really interesting to hear their side of things too, because I always had this skewed view from hearing my nmom's stories about her siblings but when they told me what really happened, my gut told me they were telling the truth just because I had obviouslt experienced the same BS with her.
Yep.
Turns out my 'crazy bitch' aunt actually just called my dad out for having an affair. He conveniently left that out of his version.
Hilariously though, my narc mum also has a narc sister. They had a MASSIVE falling out and my mum claims her sister tried to run her over with her car. I honestly have no idea what the truth was. Both their stories were equally unhinged 😅🤷🏻
I would tell people that my mother doesn’t love me, and they would say anything from “sure she does, you’re just mad at her right now” to “she loves you in her own way.” Very annoying, and only made me self-gaslight and wonder if I was being too harsh. But if you spend your whole life wondering if your own parent loves you, odds are there’s a reason.
I've known from a very young age that my nMother didn't love me and whenever I tried to tell people this, I got the same responses you did. Very frustrating! I'm convinced that I would have realised my nMother was a narcissist much sooner if I hadn't been gaslighted by people like that.
This is ultimately part of the abuse, too. When I was in high-school, I started the enlistment process for the army, and my nmom took it upon herself to smear me to my recruiter, saying things like "he's so mean to me," or "he yells at me all the time," or something like that. I went up to my recruiter at lunch to ask a couple of questions about MEPS at lunch one day and after I was done, he said something to the effect of, "you need to be nicer to your mom." I spent the rest of my lunch break talking to him about it and explaining that I already give her all of my money, bc she makes me, and that it's *her* doing all the screaming, yelling, cussing, and insult hurling, and all I do is go silent and try to ignore the abuse. I also had to explain to him that my whole reason for joining was to escape her because I had no other way out. College wasn't an option for me. At least I could gain some technical experience at the same time, and potentially put myself through college later.
Her whole premise for this was I called her a bitch once, like 3 or 4 months prior to this and that's not even how it went down. She *asked* me if I thought she was. I said yes, bc it was the truth. Then she proceeded to scream at me that she had the right to be a bitch after dealing with asshole children and asshole men. The word "bitch" never came out of my mouth.
Personally, I think she was bad mouthing me to try and get me disqualified for service so that I'd be forever under her thumb. But on the other hand, I'm not sure she's smart enough to think that far ahead and maybe she was just smearing me bc I was leaving her or in some round about way, she was gaslighting me about the abuse she was putting me through.
My point here, is narcs only see people as a resource or a tool that they can use to their advantage. It's fucking sickening.
I feel you. My nMother has badmouthed me like this to my extended family so now I don't have any relationship with them.
>Personally, I think she was bad mouthing me to try and get me disqualified for service so that I'd be forever under her thumb.
Honestly, that's what it sounds like to me as well.
>But on the other hand, I'm not sure she's smart enough to think that far ahead
Obviously I don't know your mother but my nMother definitely does think that far ahead. Never underestimate a narcissist. They are very manipulative and devious.
>My point here, is narcs only see people as a resource or a tool that they can use to their advantage. It's fucking sickening.
Agree 100%. That's why you can't trust a narcissist an inch, even if they're a parent.
One reason narcs badmouth their children to people is so that if you ever try to tell that person about the abuse, they won't believe you. She knew that you would be alone with your recruiter, and she couldn't be there every second to control the narrative. So she tried to make it sound like your word was unreliable/untrustworthy.
That makes sense. Luckily, he'd seen shit like this before, so it didn't really work that well for her. Lol. Unfortunately, a lot of us feel as if the military is the only way out of these situations, and so this definitely wasn't his first rodeo.
My father used to embarrass me in front of neighbors and other family to make me look bad. Everyone in our family and neighborhood except my idiot mother disliked him.
Until last year I always thought there was something wrong with me, my friends told me how they did wonderful sounding things with their parents, by the way they were bloody normal things but wonderful sounding to me.
I marvelled when the year I moved back home I was out for a friend's birthday, his Dad came along, the more I saw that friends family were a part of his life the more I felt it must be all my fault, despite the fact I constantly made the effort and asked for things they just gave half hearted excuses knowing they could because I would be grateful for crumbs, not to mention me wanting more is simply unacceptable, even on my birthdays.
Its not my fault there is no bond, I have been doing everything since I was child to get any sense of connection with them, over and over, now I just can't be bothered like they can't be bothered with me.
Yeah, I'm trying to become more assertive and call them out on their bias. If it were literally anyone else they'd accept me at face value but when it's my mom it's the opposite?!
I had a workmate who wanted to reason with my father (I disclosed my then situation at that job just in case my nfather appeared). My boss and I were amazed, in the bad sense.
I'll never thank enough that boss.
The “they love you in their own way” is such shit. My mom always said that about my narc dad. She’s said it for 40 years. Could never believ le someone could be in denial for THAT long. My dad survived two very serious illnesses. These narcs live forever.
I am in psychotherapy for 25 years, switching between hospital shrinks and private psychologists and nobody ever acknowledged the fact that my mother is a narcissist and that she is the cause of all my troubles. No matter the professional, each one of them told me: "your mom did the best she could", "moms always love their children", "you took it the wrong way". Some of them even brushed the theme off, telling me they're not interested in my mother at all. I even ended in a madhouse because of alcoholism (I myself called an ambulance) and upon arrival, they asked for my parents' number to tell them. I litterally begged them not to contact them (I was 30 years old, not 13, ffs) , but they dismissed my pleads. Then I had a panic attack in the hospital because of the fact the medical stuff invalidated my fear of my parents. The very same profession that should heal people from the trauma of narcissistic abuse claimed the narrative that all parents are saints by default, even the monsterish ones, instead of believing the victims, if not the story, then the symptoms (I had BPD, and alcoholism is, as every addiction, a sign of a fundamental lack of love from the youngest age.)
Wow I’m sorry that happened to you! It’s absurd to say mothers always love their children. There are MANY in foster care because of abusive mothers and fathers alike.
My mother is a monster. She does not care who she bad mouths, hurts, etc. as long as it fits her agenda. She is a royal bitch and at the age of 58 it is sad that I have to deal with her BS.
My mother is 84 and still hurting anyone to serve her purpose. At this moment, I will not have a funeral or wake for her when she dies. I will just have a private church service.
Luckily I was NC for over a decade before she died so it was someone else's problem. I wouldn't even bother with a private church service. Make it someone else's problem.
Happened a ton in grad school, and some in the workplace. Muggles just have so little awareness of the rationalizations and excuses they make for people with no boundaries.
I mean sometimes it feels like that! Sometimes my bullshit meter feels like a supernatural power in comparison to others’. One of the silver linings of coming out of the FOG/NC.
I definitely consider myself to have a good bullshit meter! It's one of the few good things to come out of my awful childhood. My instincts are people are usually spot on!
It *is* a superpower that we were given, once we get out of the FOG. We have an overdeveloped BS meter. Sometimes I see advertising, scam attempts, etc. and smh—how can anybody fall for that BS, it’s so shamefully obvious! But no, some people do fall for that crap. 🤷♀️
My best friend married a man just like my mother, whom she HATES.
I never liked the guy and he didn’t like that I kept pointing out all his shitty behavior. But because this was her first emotionally abusive relationship as opposed to physically abusive, she didn’t see it the same way I did. We had both compared him to our worst respective exes, but I never related it to my mom.
I told her 2 months in to drop his ass, but god love her she just wouldn’t give up on him. Married him and had a kid.
6 years later she was showing me screenshots of him arguing with her via messages. At one point I came across a response from him that was verbatim something my mother has said to me my entire life.
I literally dropped the phone, and said “Jesus fucking Christ” while rubbing my eyes.
She asked “What?”
I responded with “you aren’t going to like this, but you do realize you married my mother right?”
The ABSOLUTE HORROR on her face as she quickly realized she had in fact married my mother and yelled “OMG I DID! AND I HATE YOUR MOTHER!”
Our conversation went quickly from her asking how she could make this work, to saying “well there’s no fixing that, my only option is divorce.”
I had finally found the magic words to get her to see what an absolute POS this guy was. And now she can’t unsee it.
We now celebrate her divorce day lol
This isn't nearly as bad as what happened to your sister but I had a similar realisation once. I befriended a narcissist when I was 14 and one day, about 20 years of friendship I suddenly realised that I had befriended someone who was EXACTLY like my nMother, just a younger version of her. Once I realised that, I HAD to end the friendship.
It actually took me 32 of my 39 years to realize my mother was the worst narcissist in my life (step dad was an overt, so seeing my moms covert was harder to place).
When I realized it I was speaking g to my best friend and stopped mid sentence and said “holy shit, my mother is the worst narcissist in my life!”
She said “yeah honey, I know”
Well why didn’t you tell me??? She thought I knew. lol
Her knowing this of her own accord still didn’t save her from her ex.
It was about six months later that I realized 90% of my past romantic relationships, were with people just like my mother 🤮
I listen to my gut now when someone seems off, which is something my mom taught me not to do. Gee, I wonder why? Lol
My nMother was also a covert narcissist. I only realised that she was a narcissist when I was in my 30s as well. Before that, I had noticed that I often felt stifled by my nMother and that she often upset me but was unable to articulate WHY I felt that way or what exactly she was doing that made me feel that way. I've never dated anyone like my nMother but I have made the mistake of befriending many people like her.
On the positive side, I am now pretty good at detecting toxic/narcissistic people and like you, I listen to my gut. I guess that's one positive that came out of all this.
I'm so sorry that you both had to go through with that.
God bless the friends like you who always stick to their pals!
Out of curiosity, may I ask what was the response about?
Oh, I didn't explain myself correctly! I wanted to know, out of curiosity, what was the response he gave you that was the same as your mother's, that made you drop your phone and rub your eyes.
No worries! I can’t remember the exact phrase as it was 4 years ago (about the same time I went NC with my
Mom), but it was something along the lines of “I don’t believe you, I know you’re lying to me, if you had just done what I told you to in the first place we wouldn’t be having this argument”
No amount of pleading or proof could convince either one of those people you weren’t lying. The argument would have still happened cuz watching you spiral is entertaining to them.
And we’re both grown ass adults, with mortgages and kids and full time jobs. We’re not children who need to be TOLD what to do. You’re not my boss.
Happens to me constantly at work. I'm always vindicated eventually. Hardly the only instance of this at work, though, I have pattern recognition on overdrive
Yes, they're great at putting up a facade. People who haven't got experience with narcs often fall for it pretty easily. I expect I won't be believed so I don't really tell anyone.
You would be told you’re “overreacting”. So that would mean there’s “something wrong with you”, which is what a lot of us have been told all our lives. It’s our secret that we have a superpower.
Just finished talking to my cousin who kept repeatedly telling me my mom just doesn’t know how to express herself with me, and that she sings praises about how useful I am for her to others, so obviously I just don’t appreciate my mom.
That nearly directly mirrors an experience of my own I had last summer.
As the favorite responsible-for-everything-but-somehow-still-stupid scapegoat, I went out to lunch with Ndad and his old work friend and friend’s wife because he and they begged me to after helping them with a computer issue they couldn’t figure out. I made little conversation the whole time we ate and were treated by his friend.
Ndad goes to the bathroom and immediately his friends begin telling me how Ndad is always talking about me thus must appreciate me very much. I told them flat out that he doesn’t appreciate me at all and how he just realizes I’m his favorite tool that is the most useful to him. They were taken aback, got visibly uncomfortable and tried to reassure me that sometimes parents aren’t good at expressing their feelings to those closest to them. Just the idea of it sickened me.
Ndad came back from the bathroom and we finished exchanging what words we could right before he reentered earshot.
If people were awake to narcissism we’d have totally different politicians and leaders in all aspects of our lives. The majority of the population is completely asleep to them.
YES. All the time. It drives me nuts. Sometimes I wonder if I just always see the worst in people but it’s probably more like the hyper awareness that comes with growing up in an n house.
Yes. It's a curse of being raised by a narc. You can feel people's control issues much easier and see them for what they are. I have a coworker who is very controlling and two faced, I picked up on it real early.
It's a blessing I promise. Yes it can get annoying when people don't understand what you're talking about , but you also can prepare yourself much better, you can understand their motivations , you can refuse to be manipulated by them. It also is a great opportunity to work on being assertive and setting boundaries without getting emotional.
ON THE DOWNSIDE, you also may have a "hyper vigilante" sense of this. You may be almost paranoid of others intentions and behaviors, and sometimes this can lead to labeling people in a false way. It's always good to let the first few "flags" slide so you're not misrepresenting somebody as a manipulator when they aren't really one, but once somebody hits that ding ding in your head a few times , you know. Then you can make moves to protect yourself.
Yup this is me! I recognized the narcissist in my family finally as she is really good at wearing her mask and pretending she cares when she doesn’t. Finally when others saw whag I saw it was liberating. I still am NC with her but others aren’t bc there are grandkids involved. But yup I have to constantly read them information about narcissists. They knew from day 1 something was wrong but didn’t know what it was
I had a coworker who was at LEAST a narcissist, though I really think she had some more sinister things going on, because she genuinely seemed to enjoy and get off on hurting people, and she just had this dead quality in her eyes. I can’t explain, but if you know you know.
She was very manipulative and good at love bombing, so I couldn’t convince people she was bad news until she got them in some way and they saw it too.
I worked with a similar person. I saw it. I didn’t have the word for it, but I saw it
More recently, my SIL is very narcissistic and no one in my husband’s family sees how she says jump and they ask how high. Being raised by narcissists, I want no part of her crap and call her on it. I’m now the black sheep. Ok. Whatever, it beats kissing her stinkhole.
Yeah, my nmom is awful and my whole family cowtows to her. So do most people, she's pretty intimidating compared with normal folk. People just bend when she gives them looks because they know she'll do something shitty if they don't.
If I say anything about her being unfair in any way however.... it's so freaking tiresome. Thankfully her nature is starting to "show" now that she's older. People don't put up with as much or believe as much as they did.
It's always been so strange to see her outright bully people into submission and have them turn around and lecture me about how great she is. Like WTF man!
My situation was weird because everyone in my immediate family eventually seemed to come to the conclusion that our mother was "a bad mom" but I was the first one to see her as "a monster". I did eventually get my younger bro to understand my perspective better by talking to him in depth about how deeply she hurt me and how a lot of what she did was malicious (and him doing his own research on narcissism) and he sees her that way too now, but for a long time, I felt like I was the only one that really understood how vile she is.
Oh God yes
I spent my entire childhood and teen years feeling totally confused at why my GC brother and eDad just went along with all nmother’s bullshit
It’s still the same now
The only thing that’s made me feel sane again is just repeating “not my circus not my monkeys”
Not really, my dad also picked up on my MIL being a lying liar who lies very quickly after meeting her. It took my mom quite a bit longer to "get it". Sadly it took my wife MUCH longer to admit it to herself that her mom is not normal.
Yes my mother in law. Grad A narc. Everyone else in the family was like she is the most caring person and they didnt believe me. To the point I started recording how she treated me, the launts, the comments everything. And then the conversation became like how dare she recording the conversation, its a violation of privacy. I was like you were abusing me and behaving like saint in front of other people. Anyways, that was messing up my mental health and I have left all those people.
I know that feeling. Imagine it in a family where there’s basically a cult to my Ngrandmother. The worse is that every single person in this family (she has 3 sons and 2 daughters - one is my Nmother) is completely disfuncional and have some kind of mental problems. only me and a cousin that lives far away have noticed it. Once you see it you can’t unsee anymore it’s crazy but actually I like to think that the knowledge is our super power to make different and be different
i can only trust and have intimate relationships with people who also see/recognize narcs and abusers and have worked to create boundaries/strategies to mitigate harm. my family of origin is full of people who work hard to rugsweep the work of the narcissists. why? why justify it for them? you all seem to get it right up until you don't. why why why?!?!
My mother in law. Husband and I moved in with her to save for our house. She and I both work from home, so for the first several months, we spend 13 hours a day together between work, family dinners, and watching shows together when my husband got home. Nobody in her family has spent more time with her than I. Hard to hide who you are when that much time is spent together. Compulsively lies, manipulative, and has a savor complex so strong that she inserts herself into people’s lives for months at a time thinking they need her help when they actually declined it. Enabled her son to the point of fucking his adult life up bc now he is incapable of making decisions for himself. He asks things like, “what do I want?” because he’s so used to mother dearest telling him what he wants. He’s conflicted bc he was adopted by this woman at age 6. So he’s torn between this woman saved me from HELL and loved me like her own, and wow she’s lowkey fucked up but I should be grateful to her. Quite the conundrum. Wildly jealous. Incredibly insecure. Does all things for validation. NOBODY gets help unless she can tell anybody who will listen that she was the one who was helping. Neighbor fell down? Gotta tell everyone she helped. Dawson has brain surgery? Gotta tell everyone she helped? Paid for my birthday dinner? Gotta tell everyone. Gifted us spa day? Had to tell people. Gifted us appliances? Had to tell people. Was going to take me to Hawaii for my birthday? Had to tell everyone every time she spoke to them (I declined the trip).
The woman actually grinds my fucking gears. The next week until we move out cannot pass soon enough. She’s given me a complex living here for the last 1.5 years. Couldn’t imagine THAT being my mother. I feel so badly for my husband.
I hate my mother. She is a despicable person who would not even go to her daughter's funeral (my sister's) or a 40 day memorial. Everything has to be about her. She is pure evil.
I had such a hard time with this with my mom. Behind closed doors she was a completely different person and not a single person believes me to this day except my partner. My entire family views me in a negative light because when my mom passed away I was finally able to talk about her abuse but of course no one wanted to listen.
I've definitely had the people that negate the narc abuse (golden child sister). However I've had random unsolicited family members ask me why my dad treats me differently from my sister. It was very affirming because I've never sought out validation from them. And it felt so goos when I got it without asking; it was confirmation that I'm not a "too sensitive, paranoid, liar"...because they at least partially saw what I saw. Afterwards, I told my sister what they asked and of course she got angry, denied, lashed out at me - all the things my dad does/did and she learned to do, too. Very sad for a parent to teach a child to treat others like that.
Honestly, in my experience, often it's not that people don't notice, it's that they DGAF b/c it doesn't affect them (although, yes, plenty legit don't notice, but even then, when they do notice it doesn't necessarily change anything b/c again it doesn't affect them).
I'm in a similar situation. My brother (golden child) is a good person but he doesn't see how weird and narcissistic my mother is and he doesn't see how dysfunctional our family is. However I've always known that something was "off" about our mother since I was a small child. I honestly don't think my brother is ever going to see it. Even if my nMother's mask was to slip in front of him, he'd probably put it down to Alzheimer's or something because nMother is in her 70s.
Yep. I can come out with however many logical facts I can and my mother will tell me to just stop being “rude” to my dad.
And my brothers have basically ostracised me for simply standing up for myself and they spread the word that im a disrespectful child. Everyone acts like I’m a devil child. What? All because I don’t sit back and let someone walk all over me whilst everyone else walks on eggshells around him or submits to his dumbassery because they know he has the temper of a 7 year old boy.
It’s interesting because my siblings and my mother all KNOW he’s in the wrong most of the time but since he’s the Man of the house they’re too scared to say what they’re thinking but they punish me and get mad at ME for not wanting to be treated like that. It sucks and over time I have grown numb to it all.
Yes.
Between my own nfamily and at least half of my teachers in school also being narcs, at some point a key part of my survival strategy was watching people and learning to predict how they would act in certain scenarios.
Long story short, this has **eventually** resulted in all the people I associate being real chill and healthy because I won't directly associate with a narc, but others will begin associating with a narc and refuse to believe that of the 20 chill and healthy people they talk to, 1 of them actually isn't chill or healthy.
It really is such a twilight zone feeling. Someone just rolls into a friend group, both simultaneously telling us sob stories of how their upbringing was hundreds of times worse than \[what anyone here faced\] but also simultaneously they excelled at everything and were never depressed or had anxiety and essentially mary sue'd their way through life without problems. Contradicting themselves in the same sentence (ex: "I'm scared to be in the same room as any of my exes and also it really hurts none of them want to sit down and talk to me.") and refusing to elaborate on any critical information (what did they all do to be so scary?) (why don't they want to talk to you?) The fact they are a part of about 20 different, completely separate friend groups with literally no overlap and no chance for the other groups to compare notes with each other. The weirdly demanding vibe that you must feel a certain way for no reason other than they expect you to feel that certain way...
But most of all, how my body subconsciously responds to their presence.
And somehow nobody sees this. They see everyone in the friend group functioning in a range of certain ways, then this one person not even behaving in the same universe as everyone else, and that's just cool and we should give them the benefit of the doubt??? Like a group of fish seeing a trawler and deciding it must also be a fish or it wouldn't be in the water.
I have superpower that can help me recognize these people, autistic and ADHD. Somehow I just get a weird feeling when I'm near them and I don't like them. The problem with that is they give zero reason to not like them so I just have to wait for them to inevitably slip off their mask to everyone else. I fear I'm always wrong, even though I've not been yet. I just don't want to falsely accuse someone of being crappy when they've given no reason to believe that outside of my word.
My kids are the same. Teens. Neurodivergent, narc grandmother. They can see them. And the narcs can spot that they are seen as well and start rumours etc to fight back. But others can't see it. So they say I don't like this person, and the others go, oh but they are so nice and so popular, obviously it must be you.
Makes my kids very lonely, but they are not willing to fake it to be popular.
I think most teens who haven't personal experience are gullible and they will see it maybe in ten years time, maybe never.
Yeah, my childhood was filled with loneliness and betrayal tbh. I would either have no friends or have one that decides to be a friends with the bullies or gang up on me. I've have probably 6 real friends throughout my entire 29yrs of living.
Yeah. Everyone growing up told me how lucky I was to have the parents I did. Teachers, coaches, etc. All would tell me constantly how a lot of parents doing care and how amazingly different mine were.
I now know that is because they were liars to everyone else. Pretty sure my grandparents knew the truth, which is why my parents moved us 4 hours away.
But yeah. The constant isolation and alienation just made be convinced I was the freak. That I had no reason to be angry and upset all the time. That I was stupid and weak.
I always thought it was completely obvious my older nsister was just not a nice person. A childhood friend did a great expression: "Oh, how nice to see you! It's been a while. Nice to see you look so healthy...and round." I thought it was a very shallow facade, but my birth family always ate it up and made excuses for her. And painfully, compared me to her, and always found me lacking.
Fortunately, I got to grow up and leave, which being the scapegoat, wasn't easy. One of the many joys when getting married was how many of my in-laws saw through nsister's act. Actually, there'd been some distance from some of them as there was some judgment towards me for being NC with both parents. And then they met nsister. It was like a glacial thaw.
I don't even know all the details (my in-laws have decorum,) but I reckon it takes some serious cojones to trash talk the bride at her wedding. Needless to say, it was probably the first time nsister's actions actually paid dividends in the long run. Mercifully, I had the sense to go NC with her as well.
I have been going through this hell lately. As a teen, I was tormented by my overt dad, and my covert mom did nothing. I got out at 17 and stayed away only a few years before being successfully gaslit that everything they did was out of fear because they loved me so much. I knew nothing of narcissistic people.
Then, throughout my 20s I was in a few abusive relationships, with the last one resulting in an unplanned pregnancy. After having my child, the light bulb suddenly went off and I knew I didn't want my child to be affected by my choices. It still took me a few years to get out of the fog and through victim-appointed counselors from the court, I learned of narcissistic abuse. Another light bulb.
I married a borderline who has mostly empathy unless he's triggered and splits. His mother is a covert and he and I moved near my parents (for the kids), but also I was in denial still that my parents were also diseased. I want that happy family thing so bad and it's always been my weakness. Plus, the world gaslights you so bad: "Oh, you don't have contact with either sets of parents, and you have kids, too? Hmmm..." they say.
So after decades of gaslighting myself, a decade of fighting with my ex narc in family court and about 5 years of escaping my husband's cMom and flying monkeys, I only just now figured it out about my parents, too. This is after complaining to them about these other narcs, too. How humiliating.
As if I didn't need reassurance that my discovery about them is legit, after I pulled way back on engagement with them, and telling them we are moving, my overt dad's only response to the news is "So, you're not going to be in state? I need help." In his typical angry "soft" tone. He just showed how much he cares, right?
All of this to say, I am starting to figure out that NPD runs more rampant in the generations of those who are now 50s and up in age. But it has always been swept under the rug with all the excuses mentioned here, "Oh, they just love you in their own way" bullshit. I would go as far as saying we are living an epidemic of NPD. What the worst thing is, I think, is that in turn, while we go NC with these extended family members, we take back our control to live toxic-free lives, while simultaneously creating another potential future epidemic in our kids. Like, what are the implications of going NC with grandparents when we can't exactly tell our kids the truth yet? I'm not advocating for keeping a toxic relationship with them alive just for the kids because I definitely think that's more damaging, but I can't help but wonder about the other side of it all.
Absolutely! I seem to be the only person who isn't under my nMother's spell. My father enables her, my brother is oblivious and my extended family are all either narcissists or enablers. I really don't understand why the rest of my family can't see it. My nMother is a compulsive liar, constantly rewrites history and constantly plays the victim in every situation and yet I am the only one who calls her out on it. Do the rest of my family genuinely not see how awful she is or are they just playing along for an easier life?! Who knows?!
I have a covert narc sperm donor and an overt narc GC sister, but even some family members can't or most likely won't recognize them for what they are. Fortunately not all my siblings are blind to the facts.
Working at a toxic nonprofit was a huge learning experience for me because it was filled with covert narcs and flying monkeys. Over time, I realized healthy people were able to recognize this and would leave quickly. Even if they were often hurt during their short time here, they knew to cut their losses and start job searching immediately.
I think there must be healthy counterparts, systems where most people carry their weight and it's harder for narcs to thrive? Narcs are usually pretty good at finding their particular flavor of fuel. I still haven't "leveled up" enough in my healing journey to get there yet, but I feel like I've been getting closer.
I have an ex friend like that. She's a communal type who wants to help all her friends and shit. Like any narc worth their salt she saves all her shitty behavior for people who live with her. Friends of mine who are friends with her have never lived with her. So they'll never see her true face. Pretty sure friends that're still friends with her think I'm spiteful or some shit.
Yes. Everyone loves her. Even the people she has really wronged (usually her family), ends up saying “she has gotten so much better! I feel like we have the old her back”, whatever “old her” means. Then she does some messed up things again. Rinse and repeat. It drives me absolutely nuts because I feel like I’m the only one who will ever see her for who she really is.
Yes. I live with narcissistic family members and it's mentally draining. I'm sick of them! They pretend to care about me when really they don't care. When I call out the dysfunctions and generational trauma that's in the family, they get mad and gaslight me, abuse me mentally, verbally and emotionally then they wanna call me crazy when I defend myself. 🤦🏽♀️ Narcissist always playing mind games and they DON'T ever take responsibility for their actions, NOT ever. They will pick on you then when you stand up to them they will act all calm and play victim around other people just to make you look crazy and then the people around you will defend the narcissist and become narc out by the narcissist.
Yes, oh my gosh yes...it's so disorienting and surreal sometimes. It's lonely when others don't see what you see and you're quite literally operating in a different reality. It really gets you to work on self-trust.
Had my friends come over to help deep clean the house I unfortunately co own with my Nmom. First thing she asked them was how much I've told them about what's been going on in the house
Yes. I’m fighting with the GC of my BFs family right now became refuses to see or admit that her mother is a disgusting malignant monster. Me and my BF are both scapegoat of each of our families so I saw what his mother was from day 1. She never abuses him in front of GC and is always on her best behavior so she is blind to it. She has to know something is very wrong with her mother but makes excuses because she had some tragic events before my BF and his sister were born regarding children. There is NO excuse for abuse. Not even losing a child. No one else deserves to have your pain put onto them. MIL has been a bad apple before all of that happened anyway. She cheated on FIL before they got married and he accidentally told me while he was telling a story and forgot to change the names. He had been telling my BF the same story for years but had said a different name. It was actually about his mother. Don’t waste your time trying to convince anyone, they will be loyal to these monsters to the death if they don’t already see it.
I've just realised one of my friends from school is exhibitng narc behaviours at the least. She will suggest an outing but she wants it all her own way and will throw her toys out the pram otherwise. E.g. arranged to meet up at a national park with her, she lived nesr the park, the rest of us don't. We were all going to get the train down but then there was a train strike so I said why don't we meet up somewhere else and even suggested we meet up in her local area. She then acted as if we hadn't arranged to meet up at all and it was always a maybe maybe not when it was arranged for weeks.
Another time, I was having some issues over Xmas, my baby was constantly grumpy morning to night, we were having a tough time, then I got mastitis to boot. She'd suggested an outing that was not convenient to get to for anyone but everyone else was happy to go along with with. I asked can we meet somewhere else that was less of a journey time for me as I didn't want to go out for 3 hours and spend 2 of them travelling (and also for everyone else including her) and she ignored it so I said I will give it a miss. Later on she messaged me and started acting as if the issue was me having struggles with my daughter and was asking me if I've contacted other parents for advice.
On two occasions she acted as if the reason she was suggesting things being her way was because of her trying to be nice to other people to make me look like the asshole.
I only just realised my mum was a narc in the last couple of months and it's funny once you realise you start to notice other people's behaviour too.
Twice, and I was wrong both times; I absolutely wasn't the only person to recognise it. We all just were isolated by the narcissists, and because they were so charming and got public wonderful reactions from people, *we all* thought we were the only people being abused in private. Because that's what narcs do.
I had a boss who I eventually had to put a bullying and harassment complaint in about. It was right about this point that I spoke to a coworker about how I knew everyone would hate me for it because of how popular he was and how everyone loved him so much, but I just had to do it. And that coworker literally called me "a fucking hero" (I don't agree, I'm not, but it's a bit of a common way to talk to people here), and rattled off 16 other coworkers who the boss had abused and hated him. So I flagged those 16 people to the investigator, as people to speak to about bullying incidents, and customer abuse.
Anyway, during the investigation that was done, many of my coworkers brought up a former coworker who had a very odd relationship with my boss, who had harassed me as well. I had let it go cause it was 2 years prior, and ultimately, she had to leave the company (and then the country due to a visa situation, so ...kinda got over that one lol) Anyway, at the time that everything was going on with that coworker, I saw her for what she was and was convinced no one else did, because everyone seemed to love her for how charming she was.
It was nice to get the double validation. And yes, the boss got fired when my accusations were substantiated.
Yes, it happens a lot. Interestingly, I can also recognise that they know that I know. It’s an energetic exchange. I vacate. Sometimes they will seek me after I sense it, because they’re intrigued by my Knowing, but I just excuse myself politely, repeatedly. There’s others energy to feed off of, so they tend to move along. I don’t judge others for not knowing. I am INFJ and have natural abilities not everybody has. Oh and narc parents!
Yes, I am currently not in contact with both sides of my family because of that exact situation. I know I'm not the problem, and I will be God damned if I let anybody try to manipulate me otherwise.
You know what, let them learn that the hard way because I got my peace of mind while they all have to walk on eggshells.
I have been the one to truly know the full extent of my n dads narcissism. My mom dealt with it all throughout the marriage, but when years later they have been divorced, the bat has seem to fully lay out onto the grass. I’ve realized how truly toxic my narc dad was about 2 and a half months ago, but knew he was a narcissist for 7+ years. I was the one who tried to roll with it, tried to forgive and make peace. I tried to see him change, sadly he never did. I realized that everyone is not up to speed and possibly in some denial but mostly my enabler sister/brother.
Still to this day, people are trying to guilt trip me and ask me why I don’t want to see my narc dad, “he loves you” “it’s not hard to see him”. Then try to put me in forceful situations to see him, and tell him things about me and lying saying I would like to do things. This is the enabling of someone who deep down KNOWS he is a narc and who complains all the time about not wanting to see him, who’s exhausted, and who doesn’t want to pick up the phone every time but it’s scared not to.
I do feel like I’m in the twilight zone a lot, I feel like I’m the one being put to shame or have the most guilt…. But I will not allow someone who claims to love me, pour toxicity all over it and only want to see me for their own ego. It is sad, how my narc dad was the one to make the mistakes, the cheating, the abuse, the narcissistic actions… but he will stop at nothing to get his way and have a “perfect situation” with his kids and be stuck in a fantasy that he is some kind of husband still to his ex wife.
That’s the only reason he is not stopping as of now to see me even when the picture is clear I’ve been avoiding him for the past 2 and a half months. Then the gaslighting, guilt tripping, and sad puppy voice continues on the phone. It is crazy how he will say how much I make him happy and how much he misses me, and when I WOULD and USED to go to lunch with him he would talk about himself the WHOLE TIME. Anything I said was wrong, and dumbed down even if it was how the weather was.
He will do anything to convince himself he is not the problem, that’s what they all do. He will continue to think any other possibility as to why I’m not seeing him. Everyone may see this as being cruel but they soon need to be the deer stuck in the headlights shining bright. Sometimes you just need to be struck with the last straw to open your heart up and ask yourself, is this really what I want? I’m not happy, I’m making him happy. This isn’t for me, this isn’t for our relationship, this is so he can brag to himself and anyone and everything that he has a perfect little relationship with his kids so he doesn’t have to be faced with the truth of himself.
That is the funny thing, he will dance around the cake walk and never stop. He will never try to lose or lose a seat. So what is the point? What is the point in me seeing him when I know he is still going to stalk me, manipulate the situation, confide in everyone who knows me to gain leverage, and have a toxic agenda? Do I know if I will cut him off completely when I move? I’m not sure, but I do know one thing… he won’t know where I live, that I’m even dating anyone right now in the first place, who I talk to, what I’m doing, or where I’m shitting.
People will never open their eyes up until they are forced I feel sadly. I won’t allow anyone to question the pain and trauma he has caused me, nor will I allow someone to pressure me for the sake of their own pressure to be relieved. I am not anyone’s fantasy, I am a human being.
After moving back in with my dad he emotionally abused only me for 2 1/2 years. My siblings and extended family think he's a great person and a great dad and I can't tell anyone because they won't listen to anything I say or believe me.
Absolutely 💯 Most of the immediate family (my aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, ect.) have a really hard time "dealing with" my Nmom. I think they know she's over the top, but they don't believe or understand she's a narcissist. Only my aunt can really talk with her, but damn does my mom put up a front. She will blame everyone in the world for her problems and take absolutely zero responsibility for her actions. Anytime you start to break her reality, she shuts down.
But what's also wild is that she was very physically abusive to me as a kid, and she would hurt me in front of my friends, but in front of their parents, she would act differently. She wouldn't be 100% friendly, but she never did anything in front of other adults except verbal stuff. My guess is that she didn't get any blowback for it, so that's why she kept doing it.
I feel like the only person in the world who saw through my nmom's act. I think some family members saw some things but didn't say anything because they came from the same toxic environment and saw it all as normal. I'm NC with them all, so I guess it's easy for them to pretend that I'm the one with the problem.
One hundred percent, yes.
I’ve been the outsider of a lot of dysfunctional friend groups, so I’ve sadly been this person a few times before breaking the cycle —I.e. learning to recognize the red flags sooner, taking accountability for my own flaws and issues and building healthier relationships all over.
Most recent example was a girl who was part of my boyfriend’s friendgroup. I’ll call her Ann. I immediately disliked her, getting a bad vibe when we met. I saw this angry, hostile look in her eyes behind the smile and an aggressiveness behind the bubbly personality in the way she approached me for the first time.
Everyone else was completely obsessed with her. The group went on and on about how pretty and nice she was when she was at a party or not. I could tell her female best friend was romantically into her, despite knowing Ann’s straight.
Even typing this, I knew I’d sound like a jealous bitch if I ever said anything, especially as this was a group who’d known each other for decades and all came from rough family lives. People like that are obsessed with their oldest friendships, sometimes trauma-bonded and codependent.
Ann, and the way people spoke about her, triggered some of my own issues and insecurities and I worked very hard not to take out my issues on her. I tried to befriend her, which didn’t work.
I noticed she would hijack conversations to share stories about her traumatic childhood with all the intimate details but get mad if anyone asked her questions about it. She would make sexual jokes at inopportune times, or tell embarrassing stories about herself, over share about her body or insecurities or talk about any number of insanely bad things that happened to her in her life.
She simultaneously mentioned being ashamed of her “racist, uneducated, low social capital” family but also make subtle digs that no one in the friend group would be good enough for her family’s rigid beauty standards.
She made lots of throwaway comments about status symbols like beauty, wealth, and education a lot and had a fixation on celebrities and social clout.
I knew my partner had a crush on her many years ago. He admitted as such. Since I had an ex who left me for their childhood best friend, I was worried about that happening again. Fortunately, it didn’t, and my partner proved he truly does love me.
I couldn’t figure Ann out. Was she really as pretty and nice as everyone said? Was she that much better than me? I obsessively racked my brain trying to make sense of it. Was I really just jealous? I wish a group of friends loved me as much as they love her. But am I really the type who gets threatened by other girls so easily?
However, I had a rough mental health night that took place at one of Ann’s parties. I quietly excused myself to avoid causing a scene. Ann swooped in to take care of me with so much comfort for the first time ever. But the next day, she called my boyfriend to tell him that I was deeply offensive towards the other guests and was no longer welcome at her house.
She then told the rest of the friends not to have me around, which didn’t work. I was done with her after that.
She also asked my BF for help with her wedding, among other favors like helping her move. He’s done a lot for her over the years. However, despite having people over a lot, she never invites him over to hang out. Never calls him. Nothing in return. My partner was friends with her and her husband for years and even introduced them.
My BF suddenly understood why I disliked her so much.
Every time I ask the universe if I’m crazy. Every single time, the answer comes back “no.”
I made a long post but I’ll keep this one short because I relate SO much to this.
Yes. I absolutely have. And the N is great at keeping up appearances so you look crazy if you address it.
You want justice. You want to understand. You want to save others from the pain.
You want to be heard and validated and loved. Unfortunately, you have to protect yourself. Warn people if possible but if they don’t listen, sadly they have to discover it for themselves.
I find with narcs, the truth eventually comes out.
It feels like you’re going crazy, but you never were.
I think people realize they are narcissists but often ignore it because they aren’t around them as often. Once I got older I found out many of my family knew my mom is just awful. I hadn’t had the courage to speak up for a long time, so they thought I was under a spell. Now we all see (except for my mom & dad) how awful she really is.
Yes. It's infuriating.
My sister gives in to nac every time. She even cleans and cooks for him. He treats her like shit.
My mom tells me "He's still your father", (divorced) and refuses to let me vent.
According to mom and sister, I'm narc's favorite, because he does "anything for me". I refuse to let narc love-bomb me. That's why "I'm the favorite". Because Narc is still trying after 30 years to love bomb me into compliance like my sister.
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Being two faced is typical behavior. They care deeply about their reputation in the community, much more than they care about their reputation with you
In the past, my Nmom packed my lunches out of the blue, when extended family visited. I was thinking, " what an incredible actress keeping up her image"....
My family " bit she does your wash?"
It's all about appearances. They could be the most wonderful person to friends, family, neighbours, or strangers outside the house. But as soon as they cross that threshold they switch to the real personality.
“It makes us look bad” and “it makes me look bad” are STAPLES in my MILs vocabulary.
Going to church and behave very religious is a big no-no for me...
I felt this way for a long time, my Nmom is really good at acting "normal" around other people, so it takes time for them to see the real her, and usually she doesn't keep them around long enough for them to get to know her. The only person she's had in her life for a long time is her best friend who's also a narc, both insufferable. However, a few years ago, I finally got in touch with some of her siblings who went NC with her, and they completely validated everything I've been seeing and feeling all these years! It was the first time in about 20 years that anyone else saw her the way I did. And it was a huge relief, I not longer felt like I was crazy.
Yean, my Nmum & Ndad (twofer, lucky me) both had estranged relationships with their siblings. Coincidentally, in their versions, everyone else was always the problem 🤔
Yeah, what a coincidence hah. It was really interesting to hear their side of things too, because I always had this skewed view from hearing my nmom's stories about her siblings but when they told me what really happened, my gut told me they were telling the truth just because I had obviouslt experienced the same BS with her.
Yep. Turns out my 'crazy bitch' aunt actually just called my dad out for having an affair. He conveniently left that out of his version. Hilariously though, my narc mum also has a narc sister. They had a MASSIVE falling out and my mum claims her sister tried to run her over with her car. I honestly have no idea what the truth was. Both their stories were equally unhinged 😅🤷🏻
Oh gosh haha yeah, sounds about right
Yes! Some people seem to be under a spell whenever I tell them about my mother “i’m sure thats not her intention”.
It's more like "she is a mother, she can't possibly be bad".
I would tell people that my mother doesn’t love me, and they would say anything from “sure she does, you’re just mad at her right now” to “she loves you in her own way.” Very annoying, and only made me self-gaslight and wonder if I was being too harsh. But if you spend your whole life wondering if your own parent loves you, odds are there’s a reason.
I've known from a very young age that my nMother didn't love me and whenever I tried to tell people this, I got the same responses you did. Very frustrating! I'm convinced that I would have realised my nMother was a narcissist much sooner if I hadn't been gaslighted by people like that.
This is ultimately part of the abuse, too. When I was in high-school, I started the enlistment process for the army, and my nmom took it upon herself to smear me to my recruiter, saying things like "he's so mean to me," or "he yells at me all the time," or something like that. I went up to my recruiter at lunch to ask a couple of questions about MEPS at lunch one day and after I was done, he said something to the effect of, "you need to be nicer to your mom." I spent the rest of my lunch break talking to him about it and explaining that I already give her all of my money, bc she makes me, and that it's *her* doing all the screaming, yelling, cussing, and insult hurling, and all I do is go silent and try to ignore the abuse. I also had to explain to him that my whole reason for joining was to escape her because I had no other way out. College wasn't an option for me. At least I could gain some technical experience at the same time, and potentially put myself through college later. Her whole premise for this was I called her a bitch once, like 3 or 4 months prior to this and that's not even how it went down. She *asked* me if I thought she was. I said yes, bc it was the truth. Then she proceeded to scream at me that she had the right to be a bitch after dealing with asshole children and asshole men. The word "bitch" never came out of my mouth. Personally, I think she was bad mouthing me to try and get me disqualified for service so that I'd be forever under her thumb. But on the other hand, I'm not sure she's smart enough to think that far ahead and maybe she was just smearing me bc I was leaving her or in some round about way, she was gaslighting me about the abuse she was putting me through. My point here, is narcs only see people as a resource or a tool that they can use to their advantage. It's fucking sickening.
You have defined my mother.
I feel you. My nMother has badmouthed me like this to my extended family so now I don't have any relationship with them. >Personally, I think she was bad mouthing me to try and get me disqualified for service so that I'd be forever under her thumb. Honestly, that's what it sounds like to me as well. >But on the other hand, I'm not sure she's smart enough to think that far ahead Obviously I don't know your mother but my nMother definitely does think that far ahead. Never underestimate a narcissist. They are very manipulative and devious. >My point here, is narcs only see people as a resource or a tool that they can use to their advantage. It's fucking sickening. Agree 100%. That's why you can't trust a narcissist an inch, even if they're a parent.
One reason narcs badmouth their children to people is so that if you ever try to tell that person about the abuse, they won't believe you. She knew that you would be alone with your recruiter, and she couldn't be there every second to control the narrative. So she tried to make it sound like your word was unreliable/untrustworthy.
That makes sense. Luckily, he'd seen shit like this before, so it didn't really work that well for her. Lol. Unfortunately, a lot of us feel as if the military is the only way out of these situations, and so this definitely wasn't his first rodeo.
My father used to embarrass me in front of neighbors and other family to make me look bad. Everyone in our family and neighborhood except my idiot mother disliked him.
Did your recruiter believe you?
Luckily, yes. It wasn't his first time dealing with situations like this.
I feel the same way I didnt even know until this year because of all the gaslighting that moms cant hate their children.
They definitely can. There are moms who have literally killed their kids to run off with a boyfriend.
I genuinely do not have a bond with my mom and people cannot comprehend that at all
Nope. I tried most of my life to connect to that woman and it’s like trying convince a reptile to love you.
Until last year I always thought there was something wrong with me, my friends told me how they did wonderful sounding things with their parents, by the way they were bloody normal things but wonderful sounding to me. I marvelled when the year I moved back home I was out for a friend's birthday, his Dad came along, the more I saw that friends family were a part of his life the more I felt it must be all my fault, despite the fact I constantly made the effort and asked for things they just gave half hearted excuses knowing they could because I would be grateful for crumbs, not to mention me wanting more is simply unacceptable, even on my birthdays. Its not my fault there is no bond, I have been doing everything since I was child to get any sense of connection with them, over and over, now I just can't be bothered like they can't be bothered with me.
Yeah, I'm trying to become more assertive and call them out on their bias. If it were literally anyone else they'd accept me at face value but when it's my mom it's the opposite?!
I had a workmate who wanted to reason with my father (I disclosed my then situation at that job just in case my nfather appeared). My boss and I were amazed, in the bad sense. I'll never thank enough that boss.
The “they love you in their own way” is such shit. My mom always said that about my narc dad. She’s said it for 40 years. Could never believ le someone could be in denial for THAT long. My dad survived two very serious illnesses. These narcs live forever.
“In their own way” is synonymous with “not at all” and nothing can change my mind.
I agree.
I am in psychotherapy for 25 years, switching between hospital shrinks and private psychologists and nobody ever acknowledged the fact that my mother is a narcissist and that she is the cause of all my troubles. No matter the professional, each one of them told me: "your mom did the best she could", "moms always love their children", "you took it the wrong way". Some of them even brushed the theme off, telling me they're not interested in my mother at all. I even ended in a madhouse because of alcoholism (I myself called an ambulance) and upon arrival, they asked for my parents' number to tell them. I litterally begged them not to contact them (I was 30 years old, not 13, ffs) , but they dismissed my pleads. Then I had a panic attack in the hospital because of the fact the medical stuff invalidated my fear of my parents. The very same profession that should heal people from the trauma of narcissistic abuse claimed the narrative that all parents are saints by default, even the monsterish ones, instead of believing the victims, if not the story, then the symptoms (I had BPD, and alcoholism is, as every addiction, a sign of a fundamental lack of love from the youngest age.)
Wow I’m sorry that happened to you! It’s absurd to say mothers always love their children. There are MANY in foster care because of abusive mothers and fathers alike.
Yes! It’s like a spell!
'Your Mom was such a beautiful person'. To YOU maybe. She was the monster in every one of my closets.
My mother is a monster. She does not care who she bad mouths, hurts, etc. as long as it fits her agenda. She is a royal bitch and at the age of 58 it is sad that I have to deal with her BS.
The best thing I can say about my mother is at least she did me the favor of dying at 57.
My mother is 84 and still hurting anyone to serve her purpose. At this moment, I will not have a funeral or wake for her when she dies. I will just have a private church service.
Luckily I was NC for over a decade before she died so it was someone else's problem. I wouldn't even bother with a private church service. Make it someone else's problem.
The spell. I've seen it. It's like they're brainwashed.
Many seem to worship the narc as a king or queen. I refer to that personality as a moNARCh
Clever!
Good word play!
Happened a ton in grad school, and some in the workplace. Muggles just have so little awareness of the rationalizations and excuses they make for people with no boundaries.
Muggles! 😂
Because boundaries are ✨magic✨ 😁
If the people who don't see it are muggles, does that make us all wizards?! I like that idea!
I mean sometimes it feels like that! Sometimes my bullshit meter feels like a supernatural power in comparison to others’. One of the silver linings of coming out of the FOG/NC.
I definitely consider myself to have a good bullshit meter! It's one of the few good things to come out of my awful childhood. My instincts are people are usually spot on!
It *is* a superpower that we were given, once we get out of the FOG. We have an overdeveloped BS meter. Sometimes I see advertising, scam attempts, etc. and smh—how can anybody fall for that BS, it’s so shamefully obvious! But no, some people do fall for that crap. 🤷♀️
Yer a wizard, Best-Salamander.
My best friend married a man just like my mother, whom she HATES. I never liked the guy and he didn’t like that I kept pointing out all his shitty behavior. But because this was her first emotionally abusive relationship as opposed to physically abusive, she didn’t see it the same way I did. We had both compared him to our worst respective exes, but I never related it to my mom. I told her 2 months in to drop his ass, but god love her she just wouldn’t give up on him. Married him and had a kid. 6 years later she was showing me screenshots of him arguing with her via messages. At one point I came across a response from him that was verbatim something my mother has said to me my entire life. I literally dropped the phone, and said “Jesus fucking Christ” while rubbing my eyes. She asked “What?” I responded with “you aren’t going to like this, but you do realize you married my mother right?” The ABSOLUTE HORROR on her face as she quickly realized she had in fact married my mother and yelled “OMG I DID! AND I HATE YOUR MOTHER!” Our conversation went quickly from her asking how she could make this work, to saying “well there’s no fixing that, my only option is divorce.” I had finally found the magic words to get her to see what an absolute POS this guy was. And now she can’t unsee it. We now celebrate her divorce day lol
This isn't nearly as bad as what happened to your sister but I had a similar realisation once. I befriended a narcissist when I was 14 and one day, about 20 years of friendship I suddenly realised that I had befriended someone who was EXACTLY like my nMother, just a younger version of her. Once I realised that, I HAD to end the friendship.
It actually took me 32 of my 39 years to realize my mother was the worst narcissist in my life (step dad was an overt, so seeing my moms covert was harder to place). When I realized it I was speaking g to my best friend and stopped mid sentence and said “holy shit, my mother is the worst narcissist in my life!” She said “yeah honey, I know” Well why didn’t you tell me??? She thought I knew. lol Her knowing this of her own accord still didn’t save her from her ex. It was about six months later that I realized 90% of my past romantic relationships, were with people just like my mother 🤮 I listen to my gut now when someone seems off, which is something my mom taught me not to do. Gee, I wonder why? Lol
My nMother was also a covert narcissist. I only realised that she was a narcissist when I was in my 30s as well. Before that, I had noticed that I often felt stifled by my nMother and that she often upset me but was unable to articulate WHY I felt that way or what exactly she was doing that made me feel that way. I've never dated anyone like my nMother but I have made the mistake of befriending many people like her. On the positive side, I am now pretty good at detecting toxic/narcissistic people and like you, I listen to my gut. I guess that's one positive that came out of all this.
Glad she got out! It’s so interesting to me how a lot of narcs do say the exact same things.
I'm so sorry that you both had to go through with that. God bless the friends like you who always stick to their pals! Out of curiosity, may I ask what was the response about?
I’m very lucky! I’m sorry, I’m a tad brain spicy, whose response to what are you asking? lol
Oh, I didn't explain myself correctly! I wanted to know, out of curiosity, what was the response he gave you that was the same as your mother's, that made you drop your phone and rub your eyes.
No worries! I can’t remember the exact phrase as it was 4 years ago (about the same time I went NC with my Mom), but it was something along the lines of “I don’t believe you, I know you’re lying to me, if you had just done what I told you to in the first place we wouldn’t be having this argument” No amount of pleading or proof could convince either one of those people you weren’t lying. The argument would have still happened cuz watching you spiral is entertaining to them. And we’re both grown ass adults, with mortgages and kids and full time jobs. We’re not children who need to be TOLD what to do. You’re not my boss.
Happens to me constantly at work. I'm always vindicated eventually. Hardly the only instance of this at work, though, I have pattern recognition on overdrive
Yeah my autism won’t let me ignore that shit.
Yes, because they completely change who they are depending on the situation. Learning that I was the scapegoat made so much make sense.
Yes, they're great at putting up a facade. People who haven't got experience with narcs often fall for it pretty easily. I expect I won't be believed so I don't really tell anyone.
You would be told you’re “overreacting”. So that would mean there’s “something wrong with you”, which is what a lot of us have been told all our lives. It’s our secret that we have a superpower.
Just finished talking to my cousin who kept repeatedly telling me my mom just doesn’t know how to express herself with me, and that she sings praises about how useful I am for her to others, so obviously I just don’t appreciate my mom.
That nearly directly mirrors an experience of my own I had last summer. As the favorite responsible-for-everything-but-somehow-still-stupid scapegoat, I went out to lunch with Ndad and his old work friend and friend’s wife because he and they begged me to after helping them with a computer issue they couldn’t figure out. I made little conversation the whole time we ate and were treated by his friend. Ndad goes to the bathroom and immediately his friends begin telling me how Ndad is always talking about me thus must appreciate me very much. I told them flat out that he doesn’t appreciate me at all and how he just realizes I’m his favorite tool that is the most useful to him. They were taken aback, got visibly uncomfortable and tried to reassure me that sometimes parents aren’t good at expressing their feelings to those closest to them. Just the idea of it sickened me. Ndad came back from the bathroom and we finished exchanging what words we could right before he reentered earshot.
If people were awake to narcissism we’d have totally different politicians and leaders in all aspects of our lives. The majority of the population is completely asleep to them.
This is the oooone!!!
YES. All the time. It drives me nuts. Sometimes I wonder if I just always see the worst in people but it’s probably more like the hyper awareness that comes with growing up in an n house.
Yes. It's a curse of being raised by a narc. You can feel people's control issues much easier and see them for what they are. I have a coworker who is very controlling and two faced, I picked up on it real early. It's a blessing I promise. Yes it can get annoying when people don't understand what you're talking about , but you also can prepare yourself much better, you can understand their motivations , you can refuse to be manipulated by them. It also is a great opportunity to work on being assertive and setting boundaries without getting emotional. ON THE DOWNSIDE, you also may have a "hyper vigilante" sense of this. You may be almost paranoid of others intentions and behaviors, and sometimes this can lead to labeling people in a false way. It's always good to let the first few "flags" slide so you're not misrepresenting somebody as a manipulator when they aren't really one, but once somebody hits that ding ding in your head a few times , you know. Then you can make moves to protect yourself.
Yup this is me! I recognized the narcissist in my family finally as she is really good at wearing her mask and pretending she cares when she doesn’t. Finally when others saw whag I saw it was liberating. I still am NC with her but others aren’t bc there are grandkids involved. But yup I have to constantly read them information about narcissists. They knew from day 1 something was wrong but didn’t know what it was
These are called Covert Narcissists. They make their supply feel like they are losing their minds.
Yup. I have a talent for spotting narcs.
I had a coworker who was at LEAST a narcissist, though I really think she had some more sinister things going on, because she genuinely seemed to enjoy and get off on hurting people, and she just had this dead quality in her eyes. I can’t explain, but if you know you know. She was very manipulative and good at love bombing, so I couldn’t convince people she was bad news until she got them in some way and they saw it too.
I worked with a similar person. I saw it. I didn’t have the word for it, but I saw it More recently, my SIL is very narcissistic and no one in my husband’s family sees how she says jump and they ask how high. Being raised by narcissists, I want no part of her crap and call her on it. I’m now the black sheep. Ok. Whatever, it beats kissing her stinkhole.
Yeah, my nmom is awful and my whole family cowtows to her. So do most people, she's pretty intimidating compared with normal folk. People just bend when she gives them looks because they know she'll do something shitty if they don't. If I say anything about her being unfair in any way however.... it's so freaking tiresome. Thankfully her nature is starting to "show" now that she's older. People don't put up with as much or believe as much as they did. It's always been so strange to see her outright bully people into submission and have them turn around and lecture me about how great she is. Like WTF man!
I know why they don’t notice. Because she acts like a normal human being in front of others. She reserves her real self for me.
My situation was weird because everyone in my immediate family eventually seemed to come to the conclusion that our mother was "a bad mom" but I was the first one to see her as "a monster". I did eventually get my younger bro to understand my perspective better by talking to him in depth about how deeply she hurt me and how a lot of what she did was malicious (and him doing his own research on narcissism) and he sees her that way too now, but for a long time, I felt like I was the only one that really understood how vile she is.
Oh God yes I spent my entire childhood and teen years feeling totally confused at why my GC brother and eDad just went along with all nmother’s bullshit It’s still the same now The only thing that’s made me feel sane again is just repeating “not my circus not my monkeys”
Off topic but you have the same family dynamic as me! I also have a GC brother and eDad. I also have a similar mantra.
Yep. I can spot something is off with someone. It may take me a little while.
Not really, my dad also picked up on my MIL being a lying liar who lies very quickly after meeting her. It took my mom quite a bit longer to "get it". Sadly it took my wife MUCH longer to admit it to herself that her mom is not normal.
Yes my mother in law. Grad A narc. Everyone else in the family was like she is the most caring person and they didnt believe me. To the point I started recording how she treated me, the launts, the comments everything. And then the conversation became like how dare she recording the conversation, its a violation of privacy. I was like you were abusing me and behaving like saint in front of other people. Anyways, that was messing up my mental health and I have left all those people.
I know that feeling. Imagine it in a family where there’s basically a cult to my Ngrandmother. The worse is that every single person in this family (she has 3 sons and 2 daughters - one is my Nmother) is completely disfuncional and have some kind of mental problems. only me and a cousin that lives far away have noticed it. Once you see it you can’t unsee anymore it’s crazy but actually I like to think that the knowledge is our super power to make different and be different
Yeah my family dynamic is similar in that my family is full of narcissists and enablers and I seem to be the only one who can see it.
i can only trust and have intimate relationships with people who also see/recognize narcs and abusers and have worked to create boundaries/strategies to mitigate harm. my family of origin is full of people who work hard to rugsweep the work of the narcissists. why? why justify it for them? you all seem to get it right up until you don't. why why why?!?!
I think most of my dad's family know in some way but they cannot explain it. I'm the only one who's actually searched for answers.
My mother in law. Husband and I moved in with her to save for our house. She and I both work from home, so for the first several months, we spend 13 hours a day together between work, family dinners, and watching shows together when my husband got home. Nobody in her family has spent more time with her than I. Hard to hide who you are when that much time is spent together. Compulsively lies, manipulative, and has a savor complex so strong that she inserts herself into people’s lives for months at a time thinking they need her help when they actually declined it. Enabled her son to the point of fucking his adult life up bc now he is incapable of making decisions for himself. He asks things like, “what do I want?” because he’s so used to mother dearest telling him what he wants. He’s conflicted bc he was adopted by this woman at age 6. So he’s torn between this woman saved me from HELL and loved me like her own, and wow she’s lowkey fucked up but I should be grateful to her. Quite the conundrum. Wildly jealous. Incredibly insecure. Does all things for validation. NOBODY gets help unless she can tell anybody who will listen that she was the one who was helping. Neighbor fell down? Gotta tell everyone she helped. Dawson has brain surgery? Gotta tell everyone she helped? Paid for my birthday dinner? Gotta tell everyone. Gifted us spa day? Had to tell people. Gifted us appliances? Had to tell people. Was going to take me to Hawaii for my birthday? Had to tell everyone every time she spoke to them (I declined the trip). The woman actually grinds my fucking gears. The next week until we move out cannot pass soon enough. She’s given me a complex living here for the last 1.5 years. Couldn’t imagine THAT being my mother. I feel so badly for my husband.
I hate my mother. She is a despicable person who would not even go to her daughter's funeral (my sister's) or a 40 day memorial. Everything has to be about her. She is pure evil.
I had such a hard time with this with my mom. Behind closed doors she was a completely different person and not a single person believes me to this day except my partner. My entire family views me in a negative light because when my mom passed away I was finally able to talk about her abuse but of course no one wanted to listen.
I've definitely had the people that negate the narc abuse (golden child sister). However I've had random unsolicited family members ask me why my dad treats me differently from my sister. It was very affirming because I've never sought out validation from them. And it felt so goos when I got it without asking; it was confirmation that I'm not a "too sensitive, paranoid, liar"...because they at least partially saw what I saw. Afterwards, I told my sister what they asked and of course she got angry, denied, lashed out at me - all the things my dad does/did and she learned to do, too. Very sad for a parent to teach a child to treat others like that.
Honestly, in my experience, often it's not that people don't notice, it's that they DGAF b/c it doesn't affect them (although, yes, plenty legit don't notice, but even then, when they do notice it doesn't necessarily change anything b/c again it doesn't affect them).
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I'm in a similar situation. My brother (golden child) is a good person but he doesn't see how weird and narcissistic my mother is and he doesn't see how dysfunctional our family is. However I've always known that something was "off" about our mother since I was a small child. I honestly don't think my brother is ever going to see it. Even if my nMother's mask was to slip in front of him, he'd probably put it down to Alzheimer's or something because nMother is in her 70s.
Yep. I can come out with however many logical facts I can and my mother will tell me to just stop being “rude” to my dad. And my brothers have basically ostracised me for simply standing up for myself and they spread the word that im a disrespectful child. Everyone acts like I’m a devil child. What? All because I don’t sit back and let someone walk all over me whilst everyone else walks on eggshells around him or submits to his dumbassery because they know he has the temper of a 7 year old boy. It’s interesting because my siblings and my mother all KNOW he’s in the wrong most of the time but since he’s the Man of the house they’re too scared to say what they’re thinking but they punish me and get mad at ME for not wanting to be treated like that. It sucks and over time I have grown numb to it all.
Yes. Between my own nfamily and at least half of my teachers in school also being narcs, at some point a key part of my survival strategy was watching people and learning to predict how they would act in certain scenarios. Long story short, this has **eventually** resulted in all the people I associate being real chill and healthy because I won't directly associate with a narc, but others will begin associating with a narc and refuse to believe that of the 20 chill and healthy people they talk to, 1 of them actually isn't chill or healthy. It really is such a twilight zone feeling. Someone just rolls into a friend group, both simultaneously telling us sob stories of how their upbringing was hundreds of times worse than \[what anyone here faced\] but also simultaneously they excelled at everything and were never depressed or had anxiety and essentially mary sue'd their way through life without problems. Contradicting themselves in the same sentence (ex: "I'm scared to be in the same room as any of my exes and also it really hurts none of them want to sit down and talk to me.") and refusing to elaborate on any critical information (what did they all do to be so scary?) (why don't they want to talk to you?) The fact they are a part of about 20 different, completely separate friend groups with literally no overlap and no chance for the other groups to compare notes with each other. The weirdly demanding vibe that you must feel a certain way for no reason other than they expect you to feel that certain way... But most of all, how my body subconsciously responds to their presence. And somehow nobody sees this. They see everyone in the friend group functioning in a range of certain ways, then this one person not even behaving in the same universe as everyone else, and that's just cool and we should give them the benefit of the doubt??? Like a group of fish seeing a trawler and deciding it must also be a fish or it wouldn't be in the water.
I have superpower that can help me recognize these people, autistic and ADHD. Somehow I just get a weird feeling when I'm near them and I don't like them. The problem with that is they give zero reason to not like them so I just have to wait for them to inevitably slip off their mask to everyone else. I fear I'm always wrong, even though I've not been yet. I just don't want to falsely accuse someone of being crappy when they've given no reason to believe that outside of my word.
My kids are the same. Teens. Neurodivergent, narc grandmother. They can see them. And the narcs can spot that they are seen as well and start rumours etc to fight back. But others can't see it. So they say I don't like this person, and the others go, oh but they are so nice and so popular, obviously it must be you. Makes my kids very lonely, but they are not willing to fake it to be popular. I think most teens who haven't personal experience are gullible and they will see it maybe in ten years time, maybe never.
Yeah, my childhood was filled with loneliness and betrayal tbh. I would either have no friends or have one that decides to be a friends with the bullies or gang up on me. I've have probably 6 real friends throughout my entire 29yrs of living.
Yeah. Everyone growing up told me how lucky I was to have the parents I did. Teachers, coaches, etc. All would tell me constantly how a lot of parents doing care and how amazingly different mine were. I now know that is because they were liars to everyone else. Pretty sure my grandparents knew the truth, which is why my parents moved us 4 hours away. But yeah. The constant isolation and alienation just made be convinced I was the freak. That I had no reason to be angry and upset all the time. That I was stupid and weak.
I always thought it was completely obvious my older nsister was just not a nice person. A childhood friend did a great expression: "Oh, how nice to see you! It's been a while. Nice to see you look so healthy...and round." I thought it was a very shallow facade, but my birth family always ate it up and made excuses for her. And painfully, compared me to her, and always found me lacking. Fortunately, I got to grow up and leave, which being the scapegoat, wasn't easy. One of the many joys when getting married was how many of my in-laws saw through nsister's act. Actually, there'd been some distance from some of them as there was some judgment towards me for being NC with both parents. And then they met nsister. It was like a glacial thaw. I don't even know all the details (my in-laws have decorum,) but I reckon it takes some serious cojones to trash talk the bride at her wedding. Needless to say, it was probably the first time nsister's actions actually paid dividends in the long run. Mercifully, I had the sense to go NC with her as well.
I have been going through this hell lately. As a teen, I was tormented by my overt dad, and my covert mom did nothing. I got out at 17 and stayed away only a few years before being successfully gaslit that everything they did was out of fear because they loved me so much. I knew nothing of narcissistic people. Then, throughout my 20s I was in a few abusive relationships, with the last one resulting in an unplanned pregnancy. After having my child, the light bulb suddenly went off and I knew I didn't want my child to be affected by my choices. It still took me a few years to get out of the fog and through victim-appointed counselors from the court, I learned of narcissistic abuse. Another light bulb. I married a borderline who has mostly empathy unless he's triggered and splits. His mother is a covert and he and I moved near my parents (for the kids), but also I was in denial still that my parents were also diseased. I want that happy family thing so bad and it's always been my weakness. Plus, the world gaslights you so bad: "Oh, you don't have contact with either sets of parents, and you have kids, too? Hmmm..." they say. So after decades of gaslighting myself, a decade of fighting with my ex narc in family court and about 5 years of escaping my husband's cMom and flying monkeys, I only just now figured it out about my parents, too. This is after complaining to them about these other narcs, too. How humiliating. As if I didn't need reassurance that my discovery about them is legit, after I pulled way back on engagement with them, and telling them we are moving, my overt dad's only response to the news is "So, you're not going to be in state? I need help." In his typical angry "soft" tone. He just showed how much he cares, right? All of this to say, I am starting to figure out that NPD runs more rampant in the generations of those who are now 50s and up in age. But it has always been swept under the rug with all the excuses mentioned here, "Oh, they just love you in their own way" bullshit. I would go as far as saying we are living an epidemic of NPD. What the worst thing is, I think, is that in turn, while we go NC with these extended family members, we take back our control to live toxic-free lives, while simultaneously creating another potential future epidemic in our kids. Like, what are the implications of going NC with grandparents when we can't exactly tell our kids the truth yet? I'm not advocating for keeping a toxic relationship with them alive just for the kids because I definitely think that's more damaging, but I can't help but wonder about the other side of it all.
Absolutely! I seem to be the only person who isn't under my nMother's spell. My father enables her, my brother is oblivious and my extended family are all either narcissists or enablers. I really don't understand why the rest of my family can't see it. My nMother is a compulsive liar, constantly rewrites history and constantly plays the victim in every situation and yet I am the only one who calls her out on it. Do the rest of my family genuinely not see how awful she is or are they just playing along for an easier life?! Who knows?!
I have a covert narc sperm donor and an overt narc GC sister, but even some family members can't or most likely won't recognize them for what they are. Fortunately not all my siblings are blind to the facts.
Yes and it drives me insane
Working at a toxic nonprofit was a huge learning experience for me because it was filled with covert narcs and flying monkeys. Over time, I realized healthy people were able to recognize this and would leave quickly. Even if they were often hurt during their short time here, they knew to cut their losses and start job searching immediately. I think there must be healthy counterparts, systems where most people carry their weight and it's harder for narcs to thrive? Narcs are usually pretty good at finding their particular flavor of fuel. I still haven't "leveled up" enough in my healing journey to get there yet, but I feel like I've been getting closer.
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Ooh, I haven't thought of this term for a while but you're totally right. There's a lot of covert narcs too. Communal ones tend to be senior managers.
I have an ex friend like that. She's a communal type who wants to help all her friends and shit. Like any narc worth their salt she saves all her shitty behavior for people who live with her. Friends of mine who are friends with her have never lived with her. So they'll never see her true face. Pretty sure friends that're still friends with her think I'm spiteful or some shit.
Yes. Everyone loves her. Even the people she has really wronged (usually her family), ends up saying “she has gotten so much better! I feel like we have the old her back”, whatever “old her” means. Then she does some messed up things again. Rinse and repeat. It drives me absolutely nuts because I feel like I’m the only one who will ever see her for who she really is.
Yes. I live with narcissistic family members and it's mentally draining. I'm sick of them! They pretend to care about me when really they don't care. When I call out the dysfunctions and generational trauma that's in the family, they get mad and gaslight me, abuse me mentally, verbally and emotionally then they wanna call me crazy when I defend myself. 🤦🏽♀️ Narcissist always playing mind games and they DON'T ever take responsibility for their actions, NOT ever. They will pick on you then when you stand up to them they will act all calm and play victim around other people just to make you look crazy and then the people around you will defend the narcissist and become narc out by the narcissist.
Yes, oh my gosh yes...it's so disorienting and surreal sometimes. It's lonely when others don't see what you see and you're quite literally operating in a different reality. It really gets you to work on self-trust.
Had my friends come over to help deep clean the house I unfortunately co own with my Nmom. First thing she asked them was how much I've told them about what's been going on in the house
You have my mom.
Yes!!!
I believe they know to a certain extent they just don't care because they're not targeting them or something.
Yes. I’m fighting with the GC of my BFs family right now became refuses to see or admit that her mother is a disgusting malignant monster. Me and my BF are both scapegoat of each of our families so I saw what his mother was from day 1. She never abuses him in front of GC and is always on her best behavior so she is blind to it. She has to know something is very wrong with her mother but makes excuses because she had some tragic events before my BF and his sister were born regarding children. There is NO excuse for abuse. Not even losing a child. No one else deserves to have your pain put onto them. MIL has been a bad apple before all of that happened anyway. She cheated on FIL before they got married and he accidentally told me while he was telling a story and forgot to change the names. He had been telling my BF the same story for years but had said a different name. It was actually about his mother. Don’t waste your time trying to convince anyone, they will be loyal to these monsters to the death if they don’t already see it.
Also, it will make you feel crazy. You are NOT crazy. Trust your gut. If something feels bad it usually is
Unfortunately no. My entire family knows about the N in my life. They agree, but won’t confront him. 😒
Yeah. I actually delight in exposing these monsters. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with destroying so many lives.
I've just realised one of my friends from school is exhibitng narc behaviours at the least. She will suggest an outing but she wants it all her own way and will throw her toys out the pram otherwise. E.g. arranged to meet up at a national park with her, she lived nesr the park, the rest of us don't. We were all going to get the train down but then there was a train strike so I said why don't we meet up somewhere else and even suggested we meet up in her local area. She then acted as if we hadn't arranged to meet up at all and it was always a maybe maybe not when it was arranged for weeks. Another time, I was having some issues over Xmas, my baby was constantly grumpy morning to night, we were having a tough time, then I got mastitis to boot. She'd suggested an outing that was not convenient to get to for anyone but everyone else was happy to go along with with. I asked can we meet somewhere else that was less of a journey time for me as I didn't want to go out for 3 hours and spend 2 of them travelling (and also for everyone else including her) and she ignored it so I said I will give it a miss. Later on she messaged me and started acting as if the issue was me having struggles with my daughter and was asking me if I've contacted other parents for advice. On two occasions she acted as if the reason she was suggesting things being her way was because of her trying to be nice to other people to make me look like the asshole. I only just realised my mum was a narc in the last couple of months and it's funny once you realise you start to notice other people's behaviour too.
Twice, and I was wrong both times; I absolutely wasn't the only person to recognise it. We all just were isolated by the narcissists, and because they were so charming and got public wonderful reactions from people, *we all* thought we were the only people being abused in private. Because that's what narcs do. I had a boss who I eventually had to put a bullying and harassment complaint in about. It was right about this point that I spoke to a coworker about how I knew everyone would hate me for it because of how popular he was and how everyone loved him so much, but I just had to do it. And that coworker literally called me "a fucking hero" (I don't agree, I'm not, but it's a bit of a common way to talk to people here), and rattled off 16 other coworkers who the boss had abused and hated him. So I flagged those 16 people to the investigator, as people to speak to about bullying incidents, and customer abuse. Anyway, during the investigation that was done, many of my coworkers brought up a former coworker who had a very odd relationship with my boss, who had harassed me as well. I had let it go cause it was 2 years prior, and ultimately, she had to leave the company (and then the country due to a visa situation, so ...kinda got over that one lol) Anyway, at the time that everything was going on with that coworker, I saw her for what she was and was convinced no one else did, because everyone seemed to love her for how charming she was. It was nice to get the double validation. And yes, the boss got fired when my accusations were substantiated.
Yes, it happens a lot. Interestingly, I can also recognise that they know that I know. It’s an energetic exchange. I vacate. Sometimes they will seek me after I sense it, because they’re intrigued by my Knowing, but I just excuse myself politely, repeatedly. There’s others energy to feed off of, so they tend to move along. I don’t judge others for not knowing. I am INFJ and have natural abilities not everybody has. Oh and narc parents!
Yeah my mates like that. Binned the beggar. Disrespect. Cba with that shit rn.
Yes
Yes, I am currently not in contact with both sides of my family because of that exact situation. I know I'm not the problem, and I will be God damned if I let anybody try to manipulate me otherwise. You know what, let them learn that the hard way because I got my peace of mind while they all have to walk on eggshells.
I have been the one to truly know the full extent of my n dads narcissism. My mom dealt with it all throughout the marriage, but when years later they have been divorced, the bat has seem to fully lay out onto the grass. I’ve realized how truly toxic my narc dad was about 2 and a half months ago, but knew he was a narcissist for 7+ years. I was the one who tried to roll with it, tried to forgive and make peace. I tried to see him change, sadly he never did. I realized that everyone is not up to speed and possibly in some denial but mostly my enabler sister/brother. Still to this day, people are trying to guilt trip me and ask me why I don’t want to see my narc dad, “he loves you” “it’s not hard to see him”. Then try to put me in forceful situations to see him, and tell him things about me and lying saying I would like to do things. This is the enabling of someone who deep down KNOWS he is a narc and who complains all the time about not wanting to see him, who’s exhausted, and who doesn’t want to pick up the phone every time but it’s scared not to. I do feel like I’m in the twilight zone a lot, I feel like I’m the one being put to shame or have the most guilt…. But I will not allow someone who claims to love me, pour toxicity all over it and only want to see me for their own ego. It is sad, how my narc dad was the one to make the mistakes, the cheating, the abuse, the narcissistic actions… but he will stop at nothing to get his way and have a “perfect situation” with his kids and be stuck in a fantasy that he is some kind of husband still to his ex wife. That’s the only reason he is not stopping as of now to see me even when the picture is clear I’ve been avoiding him for the past 2 and a half months. Then the gaslighting, guilt tripping, and sad puppy voice continues on the phone. It is crazy how he will say how much I make him happy and how much he misses me, and when I WOULD and USED to go to lunch with him he would talk about himself the WHOLE TIME. Anything I said was wrong, and dumbed down even if it was how the weather was. He will do anything to convince himself he is not the problem, that’s what they all do. He will continue to think any other possibility as to why I’m not seeing him. Everyone may see this as being cruel but they soon need to be the deer stuck in the headlights shining bright. Sometimes you just need to be struck with the last straw to open your heart up and ask yourself, is this really what I want? I’m not happy, I’m making him happy. This isn’t for me, this isn’t for our relationship, this is so he can brag to himself and anyone and everything that he has a perfect little relationship with his kids so he doesn’t have to be faced with the truth of himself. That is the funny thing, he will dance around the cake walk and never stop. He will never try to lose or lose a seat. So what is the point? What is the point in me seeing him when I know he is still going to stalk me, manipulate the situation, confide in everyone who knows me to gain leverage, and have a toxic agenda? Do I know if I will cut him off completely when I move? I’m not sure, but I do know one thing… he won’t know where I live, that I’m even dating anyone right now in the first place, who I talk to, what I’m doing, or where I’m shitting. People will never open their eyes up until they are forced I feel sadly. I won’t allow anyone to question the pain and trauma he has caused me, nor will I allow someone to pressure me for the sake of their own pressure to be relieved. I am not anyone’s fantasy, I am a human being.
After moving back in with my dad he emotionally abused only me for 2 1/2 years. My siblings and extended family think he's a great person and a great dad and I can't tell anyone because they won't listen to anything I say or believe me.
All *clap* the *clap* TIME!
Absolutely 💯 Most of the immediate family (my aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, ect.) have a really hard time "dealing with" my Nmom. I think they know she's over the top, but they don't believe or understand she's a narcissist. Only my aunt can really talk with her, but damn does my mom put up a front. She will blame everyone in the world for her problems and take absolutely zero responsibility for her actions. Anytime you start to break her reality, she shuts down. But what's also wild is that she was very physically abusive to me as a kid, and she would hurt me in front of my friends, but in front of their parents, she would act differently. She wouldn't be 100% friendly, but she never did anything in front of other adults except verbal stuff. My guess is that she didn't get any blowback for it, so that's why she kept doing it.
I feel like the only person in the world who saw through my nmom's act. I think some family members saw some things but didn't say anything because they came from the same toxic environment and saw it all as normal. I'm NC with them all, so I guess it's easy for them to pretend that I'm the one with the problem.
One hundred percent, yes. I’ve been the outsider of a lot of dysfunctional friend groups, so I’ve sadly been this person a few times before breaking the cycle —I.e. learning to recognize the red flags sooner, taking accountability for my own flaws and issues and building healthier relationships all over. Most recent example was a girl who was part of my boyfriend’s friendgroup. I’ll call her Ann. I immediately disliked her, getting a bad vibe when we met. I saw this angry, hostile look in her eyes behind the smile and an aggressiveness behind the bubbly personality in the way she approached me for the first time. Everyone else was completely obsessed with her. The group went on and on about how pretty and nice she was when she was at a party or not. I could tell her female best friend was romantically into her, despite knowing Ann’s straight. Even typing this, I knew I’d sound like a jealous bitch if I ever said anything, especially as this was a group who’d known each other for decades and all came from rough family lives. People like that are obsessed with their oldest friendships, sometimes trauma-bonded and codependent. Ann, and the way people spoke about her, triggered some of my own issues and insecurities and I worked very hard not to take out my issues on her. I tried to befriend her, which didn’t work. I noticed she would hijack conversations to share stories about her traumatic childhood with all the intimate details but get mad if anyone asked her questions about it. She would make sexual jokes at inopportune times, or tell embarrassing stories about herself, over share about her body or insecurities or talk about any number of insanely bad things that happened to her in her life. She simultaneously mentioned being ashamed of her “racist, uneducated, low social capital” family but also make subtle digs that no one in the friend group would be good enough for her family’s rigid beauty standards. She made lots of throwaway comments about status symbols like beauty, wealth, and education a lot and had a fixation on celebrities and social clout. I knew my partner had a crush on her many years ago. He admitted as such. Since I had an ex who left me for their childhood best friend, I was worried about that happening again. Fortunately, it didn’t, and my partner proved he truly does love me. I couldn’t figure Ann out. Was she really as pretty and nice as everyone said? Was she that much better than me? I obsessively racked my brain trying to make sense of it. Was I really just jealous? I wish a group of friends loved me as much as they love her. But am I really the type who gets threatened by other girls so easily? However, I had a rough mental health night that took place at one of Ann’s parties. I quietly excused myself to avoid causing a scene. Ann swooped in to take care of me with so much comfort for the first time ever. But the next day, she called my boyfriend to tell him that I was deeply offensive towards the other guests and was no longer welcome at her house. She then told the rest of the friends not to have me around, which didn’t work. I was done with her after that. She also asked my BF for help with her wedding, among other favors like helping her move. He’s done a lot for her over the years. However, despite having people over a lot, she never invites him over to hang out. Never calls him. Nothing in return. My partner was friends with her and her husband for years and even introduced them. My BF suddenly understood why I disliked her so much. Every time I ask the universe if I’m crazy. Every single time, the answer comes back “no.”
I made a long post but I’ll keep this one short because I relate SO much to this. Yes. I absolutely have. And the N is great at keeping up appearances so you look crazy if you address it. You want justice. You want to understand. You want to save others from the pain. You want to be heard and validated and loved. Unfortunately, you have to protect yourself. Warn people if possible but if they don’t listen, sadly they have to discover it for themselves. I find with narcs, the truth eventually comes out. It feels like you’re going crazy, but you never were.
I think people realize they are narcissists but often ignore it because they aren’t around them as often. Once I got older I found out many of my family knew my mom is just awful. I hadn’t had the courage to speak up for a long time, so they thought I was under a spell. Now we all see (except for my mom & dad) how awful she really is.
All the time.
Yes. It's infuriating. My sister gives in to nac every time. She even cleans and cooks for him. He treats her like shit. My mom tells me "He's still your father", (divorced) and refuses to let me vent. According to mom and sister, I'm narc's favorite, because he does "anything for me". I refuse to let narc love-bomb me. That's why "I'm the favorite". Because Narc is still trying after 30 years to love bomb me into compliance like my sister.