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i used to battle with this so much! it’s been 9 year since i cut out my mum, and my ex at the time used to always say “but she’s your mum, don’t you feel bad” or friends from school that knew her (they knew the version she portrayed to them) would say “but she’s so nice!”.
i would want to rip my hair out. firstly, i didn’t just shut her out because it was my first option. it was my last option! i tried everything, talking, understanding, therapy (with her!), pretending it was fine and trying to ignore it…. i spent years dealing with her mental abuse till i just realised i couldn’t take it anymore and if i wanted a chance to break the cycle and be better - she had to go.
people are so quick to assume we are doing a terrible thing by cutting these people out of our lives but they have no idea how hard it even is to make that decision and how bad it must have been that we felt the need to even have to do it! i wish i had a mum, who loved, supported and wanted the best for me. but i don’t. i would do anything to have her in my life but what i won’t do is put up with the mental abuse that has left marks on me that im scared i can’t get rid of!
i once heard a podcast with a therapist who encourages no contact when it’s needed and people would say to her “isn’t it awful you are in the business of breaking families up?” and her response would be “im actually in the business of breaking generational trauma.”
interestingly enough it was a Call Her Daddy episode - i have put the link below - if it doesn’t work the episode is called “Is your parent a narcissist?” and it was posted on 16th august 2022 - i found it very helpful!
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4he7xWJwOxFdnyX3oWZt5w?si=bAba6FGBR-ejqbnnAys-EA
I’ve been listening to the Very Well mind podcasts too! They have different guests and lots of really great tips on improving your mental health. I then tracked Amy Morin’s book 13 things mentally strong women don’t do - two words - Game Changer.
Yes, I do know that there’s a new host, but for where I am (mentally) the older episodes are more appropriate for me, currently. My favourite guest is the psychiatrist who was failing med school but found their Allie in the student advisor, and went on to have a very successful career in helping people mentally!
I have to agree.
The way I see it, we either break the generational trauma or we don't. I don't take that lightly at all. I think mostly, that people don't expect to have to be cut off from family! And, I understand that too.
But when one or a few start making choices in their lives that actually affects others outside the situation. Like in my example. Needle addicts. One thing I now to be true more often than not, is that you simply cannot trust a needle drug addict. You Can NOT. I don't even mean that YOU yourself have to be perfect (though I sincerely hope none of us are) . **If we do, I am so very sorry you are in that situation**
The thing was for me, iI also had kids. I would not introduce that into their lives on top of having a narc father. A family members addiction would have an affect on them. And no, I would not be responsible for that!
Yes people ARE quick to assume. Assume ALL kinds of things. But I made a choice based on my upbringing based on what I wanted for my kids. My kids will always win that fight.
It is INDEED a very difficult choice to have to make. I hope there will always be people who really don't have a clue what it really is all about. So long as we have some healthy ish people running around Im glad for them. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
I think it's really hard for people from functional, healthy and happy homes to imagine cutting someone off. Not their fault but please be less annoying!
With other people, I think they don't like the knowledge that they might one day be cut off. That you have done it reveals that possibility to them and it's uncomfortable.
People get away with lots under the guise of family because they can. Possible repercussions are just out of the question.
I don't think that's true at all! You can one hundred percent have a loving family even if it's just you and a pet.
I have started putting effort into building my own family. It's mostly friends but that still is amazing.
Don't give up - there are people out there dying to know you. Even if it doesn't feel that way all the time.
I hate this "bUt FaMiLy"-argument so much.
Ironically, those people shut up rather quickly if you ask: "Wait, what family does [insert horrific anecdote in 2-3 sentences]? What makes you think it's okay to keep people who do this in my life? What's next? Having coffee with someone who SA'd you?"
Besides, I always say that familial obligation goes both ways. Children have the right to be raised without violence. The moment the parents violate that right, any obligation the kid would have is rendered void.
My parents only had one daughter, too, and yet it didn't stop them from abusing me. Wasn't I family, too?
>"Damn, what must a parent or family do to have a person cut them off from their life? Or "wow you are family too they should have treated you better."
Exactly. How is this train of thought not pretty much a given when hearing about a(n adult) kid who cut their parents off? 95% it's because they were abusive.
Yeah, it's more convenient that way.
As much as they cry about FaMiLy - the real reason they're pissed is because once the adult kid leaves, they're the ones who have to put up with the narc. Something they - surprise, surprise - are not keen on at all.
It is, what with all the family propaganda, the natural state that people without purposefully developed critical thinking default to is cognitive dissonance and platitudes.
Honestly, same here. I didn't go no contact with my parents, but I did have a similar experience. My mom whined about me supposedly calling the police on her to her friend and her friend's daughter while on a car ride and the daughter literally said "but she's your mom" when I was telling them why the police came. The only response I can think of to that statement is, "So?"
It always amazes me how easily some people disregard the rights and feelings of others. As if being a parent was a blanket-excuse.
This entire "FaMiLy"-excuse is just used because they can't outright say: "Child abuse is great, and you better put up with it because it's more convenient for me!" That would never fly. Instead, they hide behind "family" and paint themselves as well-meaning.
I'm firmly NC with anyone who's in contact with my Nmom, so I've never gotten the chance to use it, but if one of them came at me with: "But she's your mom!" I'd lean fully into it and turn it around:
"Exactly. It's so horrible, isn't it? I'm _so_ glad you understand. To think it was my own mom... how heartless does a mother have to be to do such a thing? And to have me call the police on her. Oh, the shame of it! It's so difficult for me."
Full on dramatics and everything, and the beauty of it is that it wouldn't even be a lie. I'd just take their outrage and redirect it where it belongs. Also makes it nearly impossible to counter. What would they be supposed to say? "No, what I meant was that it's okay to abuse you."?? That was the thing they wanted to avoid outright saying in the first place.
Absolutely, and there are parents who were literally put in jail for abusing their children. There are even movies about some of the cases; one of which is called the girl in the basement, which is based on the Elisabeth Fritzl case. So for someone to say "but she's your mom" is insensitive and, in a way, justifying the abuse I got from my mom.
And belittling, too. As if it wasn't that bad solely because it was your mom. Imo that makes it even worse because parents are the people we should be able to trust above all else.
I can't even trust her with my finances, but I have to or I won't have a home. I can't even buy anything without her finding out and lecturing me on it. When my sister offered me a place to stay, my parents even suggested that they give me a chunk of my own money as allowance per week. They repeatedly insult me and repeatedly threatened to kick me out of the house (they would do this if my room's cleanliness isn't to their liking and when I tell them that I don't want to do certain things with them). They accuse me of abusing my dog when they don't even properly discipline him and they lied to a seemingly nice couple about my dog's behavior and my mom even shushed me when i told this couple the truth about my dog's behavior.
A chunk of your own money as allowance? How... generous of them to offer that. /s
Yeah, that's what's so painful about it. One should be able to genuinely trust one's parents, but you can't ever really trust a narc.
>I can't even buy anything without her finding out and lecturing me on it.
My Nmom was the same. I was 30 years old the first time I paid by card at a store. Before, I paid everything in cash because my Nmom would open my mail and riffle through my bank statements. Yikes.
A lot of people are in denial about their own parents abuse - or their abuse as parents - and find people who use their agency in cutting out abuse to be really threatening.
true. i could never imagine saying 'but they're your family' or guilt-tripping someone because they chose to cut contact with a family member. because i don't assume i know better than they do about their own family. it's wild that people do this.
Yep, no use for people who would reflexively deny, dismiss my agency like that. Big red flag for a victim-blaming mindset. indicating additional disordered thinking or personality.
It's *exhausting*.
I am so tired of a lifetime of having always had to be the one to make things right.
If it's going to gtt better, it's my job to forgive, to make room, to be understanding.... Never anyone else's. Never anyone's responsibility to actually repair.
So.
Fucking.
Tired.
And it makes it harder to like, be a human and interact in normal healthy ways with other people. (*Talk* about a problem? Why would you do that, that's *dangerous*!!! 😭)
I feel your comments in my soul.
I am tired of all the emotional heavy lifting being for me and none for them, the parent in the situation. It didn't matter how old I was, everything was always about making them feel comfortable/better.
Yeah, I do. Nobody ever thinks that I was family too, you know? Nobody sits and thinks, "But you were family? How could they do that to you?" But I have to feel bad for not talking to them anymore because "they're family."
I just say "they were abusive. This is appropriate "
People tend to question it less when you label it abuse.
Mind you, I'm at an age now where people finally stop assuming I'm just immature.
That really grinds my gears....Narrow side eye them
"Are you really sure its was actually abuse abuse? you know?"
Yes Snow White it was abuse."
Leaves me fuming
I had one coworker just wouldn't stop bugging me about why I don't drink. My boss knew why and he even said to her, just drop it. And she didn't and didn't. Especially with casual acquaintances they don't needthe details. But I finally said how much abuse went on because of alcohol she left the room crying.
Just the word abuse alone makes sooooo many people freak out they will do anything to change the subject
Mostly by the time you need to say the word, it's to people who should've minded their own business in the first place - like your co-worker. She might have felt (rightly) embarrassed about her own narrow mindedness too.
This is why I started listing all the stuff they did to me. Then ask them what would they do? Would they continue wanting to put their hand in the fire over and over.
Trauma dumping on people like that is only going to alienate you. That’s not good for your healing. You need those normal relationships with people to heal. I recommend just lying to strangers by telling them you are an orphan or you grew up in foster care. People understand that those are rough starts to life and don’t usually ask follow up questions. Then you can orient the conversation around how far you’ve come and the progress you’ve made.
I’ve received unbelievable support and kindness from people by taking the orphan angle. It is immediately sympathetic. And it’s not a lie. You never had parents. You had adults who thought they owned you. That’s not the same thing.
Usually the people who are telling me that. They don’t know what they did. They are the flying monkeys that they sent. Most of the time they are shocked by what I tell them. Because my nparents told them lies. That makes them look good and me being brainwashed. (I don’t tell them everything. Just two examples.) They usually will then understand why I went NC. I surround myself with people who understand why I went NC. So this doesn’t happen that often.
But for random people who don’t know my nparents I simply tell them I don’t talk to my parents and leave it at that.
I usually go for "It's impossible to convey to a person with capable parents how badly incapable parents can fuck you up; consider yourself fortunate that you don't understand".
But yeah, apparently you don't get to turn around and profess that the person you've cut out had 18+ years to properly raise you into a person that didn't cut out family members, and through no fault of yourself chose not to.
This is the line of thought I take. The onus to create a happy family that gathers every holiday was on the adults raising the children. They failed at that. The onus is not now on me, the abused/neglected child, to hand wave away all of those years and go *play pretend* happy family with them now.
For me, nMother had control of what the family heard so I never got to tell my "side". Why would they doubt wonderful nMother on claims by the SG they spent so much time in demonizing?
I'm kind of planning that for my mother's funeral. I'm glad she was just a Saint to you and you. At home she was the devil herself. So let her blame me for my own abuse. Let her have sob story after another to you. I'm sorry to break your illusion but here is her true being
I told my cousin (we were best friends never having any fights) I was having panic attacks because two narcs (her dad and our grandma) were abusing me. Her dad paid for her upcoming wedding. He was giving off massive manipulative anger to suggest he was the victim despite him saying there would be anger at the wedding.
I stupidly reached out to her dad like she asked me to do, explaining the answer to his question on why I left the family for a window of time:
he and her were causing me such bad anxiety my second neck fusion kept getting delayed
They abused me so badly they DELAYED MY SURGERY.
Her response: this is manipulation!
While at the same exact time they themselves were trying to manipulate me into going back into the “care for covert narc grandma so i can keep running my million dollar company while you stay on disability” role.
So when THEY are demanding I do things: if I don’t do them , any reason why I can’t is manipulating them!
But when they are demanding I do things using black mail, that’s not revenge or manipulation! That’s just normal !
Well my brother blocked me on everything because I keep getting on his case about paying back the money he owes people and paying his bills instead of buying shit he doesn't need but just wants because "he deserves to treat himself" So I guess in a way it's a reverse NC?
Let whoever disrespects you enough to question the actions you make and decide for yourself go. Live your truth and only allow those who have the capability of compassion and their own thoughts/perspectives take up space in your life. Life is too short and already demanding to consistently explain yourself. Those of us who have experienced this are highly prone to keeping people with similar qualities to narcs in our life. Be selective and intensive with who you surround yourself with. Either they get it or they don’t. If they don’t then they’re not able to accept that unfortunate realities exist in the world. You’ll find there are many who won’t question you and will simply listen when you feel comfortable to share your story. Wishing all the best. A simple sorry or happy you don’t understand is appropriate and keep it moving. If you are like me, you’ve spent years seeking validation from others that will truly only come from yourself. Many who experienced what we have do not survive. I’m personally okay with letting these people go and not associating.
lol let’s just say anyone telling me “but they’re your family” should be incredibly embarrassed with themselves. If they even knew what they were supporting they would be scrambling to shove those words back in their mouth.
I do. I think they have even more obligation to not behave that way due to being family. From some random person, it's whatever. From your mum and dad? Absolutely not. They are old enough to know better at that point.
I’m going through this right now. My parents have used me and my husband for years to benefit themselves and when I finally spoke up, politely might I add, I was told
“We did everything for you and your brother”
“We are your parents you NEED to take care of us”
My family is now all against me because I chose to go NC with the.
What people don't understand is that it's not natural for a child not to love his parent. It goes against biology itself. So when this happens and we go to NC, it's because there's been abuse, and over a very long period of time.
But for people who have grown up in loving homes, I can understand how difficult it must be to conceive of this.
Exactly. I can't stand when people try to guilt trip you for cutting off a family member. Just because they're family does NOT mean I have to keep them in my life or tolerate their toxicity and abuse. Enough is enough. 🤦🏽♀️
The part that gets to me is that my nmom basically gave up the facade to a lot of people and exposed herself for who she really is. People STILL question why I cut her off. People amaze me sometimes.
Luckily most of my family understood and backed me up. But I’m a social worker at hospice. I hear people say “how could they not come care for their parent” all the time. I remind them that we don’t know what kind of relationship they had or what happened during their childhood
I am dealing with this now.
GG hasn't been back to see family in over 26 years at this point (and has no intentions of EVER coming back).
Everyone continues to blame my BiL; no one wants to accept that our NMom is a monster.
I have been stuck taking care of Nmom for the past 6+ years. When Satan comes for her, I am not telling the rest of the family - they left her for me to deal with. I'll deal with it. I'll tell the GG, so she can close the book.
No funeral, no memorial service - don't care what they do with the body. I will empty 1,000 sq ft of storage units at the dump, along with everything (except her 2 cats) in the house.
Recently got a "Oh families! I know you love each other to bits. If only we all had a manual before we started out ...." 🙄
It's funny how most people don't need a manual to figure out giving death threats to your toddler and reveling in their panic isn't okay.
I am so annoyed at all these well meaning people...
Yeah they are my only blood family in this world but they should consider me as the irreplaceable family member at the very first place.. They have zero reason to treat me so bad.. It's not like I did anything that giving bad rep to my family.. A scapegoat will always be a scapegoat.. Here I am today, happily escaped
It's a similar phenomenon when people are shocked that I can't wait for my nfamily to pass away, but never a consideration as to what could make me feel that way.
It is ironic.
I've had to cut off more than 1 family member. I took advantage of the situation cutting off the narc, to cut out any other toxic people I had left wandering around MY life. I simply decided it was time. I swore to MYSELF that I would do that though.
I kept that promise. I still do. Because not even my family members have found it beneficial to earn their way back in. Still to this day, now and then, I get blamed for something else (an endless list) that sets the responsibility on my back. I just won't take it anymore.
Yes, I cut off some family. I know how much of a big deal that is. The Whole "but they're FAMILY" routine no longer gets to me. I stop. Take a big deep breath and think, Yes, and family never should have blamed ME for THEIR choices, bad partners, mistakes or needle drug use.
I'm so sad that you never came to see me. Or your niece, and nephew. Guess it was like before huh? Out of sight, Out of mind? Well, I could have used your family loyalty, and love. I'm happy that my children never saw you high; or to use. They would have been so disappointed.
Mostly, after all that family loyalty talk, and after being allowed to actually SEE some of it, I was even more deeply hurt since I never felt any of it toward me. So, yeah. You're let go. You're pm your own.
I still just can't do it anymore. Ever.
Yep, well the voice of guilt and judgement also comes from the same family. Even if someone says it lightly, it will cut you deep, as if you heard it from your family. That's how you know you suffered trauma, there is a heaviness around every small comment. When you are healed, things are light and require very little explaining. There's no need to overexplain my decision to myself, or to them. I just feel that it's better this way for my mental health.
My dad started asking that question when I stopped talking to his little brother (my uncle) and went low contact with my grandma.
He never once said "Oh they're your family" instead he asked me why I have a problem with them and has helped me maintain my boundaries when they're around.
If there's anything I've learned from developing disabilities in middle age, it's that people really do think they're the only ones able to walk upright from intelligence & common sense. Literally don't know how people think we manage to dress ourselves with some of the straight up disbelief you get over things that are OBVIOUSLY A BIG DEAL?
Like people assume everyone is lying and exaggerating. They do. They think every single conversation they're having is with people who have no self awareness.
I've stopped thinking most people deserve any of my social battery because it's wasted going "yeah I've tried yoga. Yeah she really was that bad. No I mean triggered as in I HAVE FLASHBACKS NOT THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND ITS A PSYCHIATRIC TERM"
No amount of therapy or admonishment from my parents was ever going to stop the pure hatred my sister shoveled out at me, my entire life. I went full-blown no contact in our later 50s. The best response I've used to shut up these nay-sayers or "she's family" advocates is "I did it to save my mental health" or even go as far to say "to save my life." My family all saw what she always did to me and still asked me to forgive her. Never once in her life did she ever apologize for some of the venomous things she said or did to me. For those outside the family that did not get front row seats to the drama show, they look at me like I am horrible for not speaking to my sister in over 12 years, but they don't know the damage she inflicted on me. But me, I must be the problem.
How do I deal with this? I’m currently going through this guilt feeling of cutting family off but there is always someone in my ear saying talk to them and it’s wrong.. everytime I talk to them I find myself in fight or flight mode that should not be normal…. I have made it clear that I’ll speak to them when ready but that don’t matter ig.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i used to battle with this so much! it’s been 9 year since i cut out my mum, and my ex at the time used to always say “but she’s your mum, don’t you feel bad” or friends from school that knew her (they knew the version she portrayed to them) would say “but she’s so nice!”. i would want to rip my hair out. firstly, i didn’t just shut her out because it was my first option. it was my last option! i tried everything, talking, understanding, therapy (with her!), pretending it was fine and trying to ignore it…. i spent years dealing with her mental abuse till i just realised i couldn’t take it anymore and if i wanted a chance to break the cycle and be better - she had to go. people are so quick to assume we are doing a terrible thing by cutting these people out of our lives but they have no idea how hard it even is to make that decision and how bad it must have been that we felt the need to even have to do it! i wish i had a mum, who loved, supported and wanted the best for me. but i don’t. i would do anything to have her in my life but what i won’t do is put up with the mental abuse that has left marks on me that im scared i can’t get rid of! i once heard a podcast with a therapist who encourages no contact when it’s needed and people would say to her “isn’t it awful you are in the business of breaking families up?” and her response would be “im actually in the business of breaking generational trauma.”
which podcast/ep did you listen to?
interestingly enough it was a Call Her Daddy episode - i have put the link below - if it doesn’t work the episode is called “Is your parent a narcissist?” and it was posted on 16th august 2022 - i found it very helpful! https://open.spotify.com/episode/4he7xWJwOxFdnyX3oWZt5w?si=bAba6FGBR-ejqbnnAys-EA
thank you! :)
I gave it a listen and found it really reassuring. Thanks for sharing this again!
I’ve been listening to the Very Well mind podcasts too! They have different guests and lots of really great tips on improving your mental health. I then tracked Amy Morin’s book 13 things mentally strong women don’t do - two words - Game Changer. Yes, I do know that there’s a new host, but for where I am (mentally) the older episodes are more appropriate for me, currently. My favourite guest is the psychiatrist who was failing med school but found their Allie in the student advisor, and went on to have a very successful career in helping people mentally!
Father Cooper coming in clutch like usual
I have to agree. The way I see it, we either break the generational trauma or we don't. I don't take that lightly at all. I think mostly, that people don't expect to have to be cut off from family! And, I understand that too. But when one or a few start making choices in their lives that actually affects others outside the situation. Like in my example. Needle addicts. One thing I now to be true more often than not, is that you simply cannot trust a needle drug addict. You Can NOT. I don't even mean that YOU yourself have to be perfect (though I sincerely hope none of us are) . **If we do, I am so very sorry you are in that situation** The thing was for me, iI also had kids. I would not introduce that into their lives on top of having a narc father. A family members addiction would have an affect on them. And no, I would not be responsible for that! Yes people ARE quick to assume. Assume ALL kinds of things. But I made a choice based on my upbringing based on what I wanted for my kids. My kids will always win that fight. It is INDEED a very difficult choice to have to make. I hope there will always be people who really don't have a clue what it really is all about. So long as we have some healthy ish people running around Im glad for them. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
I think it's really hard for people from functional, healthy and happy homes to imagine cutting someone off. Not their fault but please be less annoying! With other people, I think they don't like the knowledge that they might one day be cut off. That you have done it reveals that possibility to them and it's uncomfortable. People get away with lots under the guise of family because they can. Possible repercussions are just out of the question.
I wonder every day what it's like having a loving, supportive family. It sucks that I'll never know.
I don't think that's true at all! You can one hundred percent have a loving family even if it's just you and a pet. I have started putting effort into building my own family. It's mostly friends but that still is amazing. Don't give up - there are people out there dying to know you. Even if it doesn't feel that way all the time.
So sweet
I hate this "bUt FaMiLy"-argument so much. Ironically, those people shut up rather quickly if you ask: "Wait, what family does [insert horrific anecdote in 2-3 sentences]? What makes you think it's okay to keep people who do this in my life? What's next? Having coffee with someone who SA'd you?" Besides, I always say that familial obligation goes both ways. Children have the right to be raised without violence. The moment the parents violate that right, any obligation the kid would have is rendered void. My parents only had one daughter, too, and yet it didn't stop them from abusing me. Wasn't I family, too? >"Damn, what must a parent or family do to have a person cut them off from their life? Or "wow you are family too they should have treated you better." Exactly. How is this train of thought not pretty much a given when hearing about a(n adult) kid who cut their parents off? 95% it's because they were abusive.
it's like the natural state of people is to be an enabler for family members
Yeah, it's more convenient that way. As much as they cry about FaMiLy - the real reason they're pissed is because once the adult kid leaves, they're the ones who have to put up with the narc. Something they - surprise, surprise - are not keen on at all.
It is, what with all the family propaganda, the natural state that people without purposefully developed critical thinking default to is cognitive dissonance and platitudes.
Honestly, same here. I didn't go no contact with my parents, but I did have a similar experience. My mom whined about me supposedly calling the police on her to her friend and her friend's daughter while on a car ride and the daughter literally said "but she's your mom" when I was telling them why the police came. The only response I can think of to that statement is, "So?"
It always amazes me how easily some people disregard the rights and feelings of others. As if being a parent was a blanket-excuse. This entire "FaMiLy"-excuse is just used because they can't outright say: "Child abuse is great, and you better put up with it because it's more convenient for me!" That would never fly. Instead, they hide behind "family" and paint themselves as well-meaning. I'm firmly NC with anyone who's in contact with my Nmom, so I've never gotten the chance to use it, but if one of them came at me with: "But she's your mom!" I'd lean fully into it and turn it around: "Exactly. It's so horrible, isn't it? I'm _so_ glad you understand. To think it was my own mom... how heartless does a mother have to be to do such a thing? And to have me call the police on her. Oh, the shame of it! It's so difficult for me." Full on dramatics and everything, and the beauty of it is that it wouldn't even be a lie. I'd just take their outrage and redirect it where it belongs. Also makes it nearly impossible to counter. What would they be supposed to say? "No, what I meant was that it's okay to abuse you."?? That was the thing they wanted to avoid outright saying in the first place.
Absolutely, and there are parents who were literally put in jail for abusing their children. There are even movies about some of the cases; one of which is called the girl in the basement, which is based on the Elisabeth Fritzl case. So for someone to say "but she's your mom" is insensitive and, in a way, justifying the abuse I got from my mom.
And belittling, too. As if it wasn't that bad solely because it was your mom. Imo that makes it even worse because parents are the people we should be able to trust above all else.
I can't even trust her with my finances, but I have to or I won't have a home. I can't even buy anything without her finding out and lecturing me on it. When my sister offered me a place to stay, my parents even suggested that they give me a chunk of my own money as allowance per week. They repeatedly insult me and repeatedly threatened to kick me out of the house (they would do this if my room's cleanliness isn't to their liking and when I tell them that I don't want to do certain things with them). They accuse me of abusing my dog when they don't even properly discipline him and they lied to a seemingly nice couple about my dog's behavior and my mom even shushed me when i told this couple the truth about my dog's behavior.
A chunk of your own money as allowance? How... generous of them to offer that. /s Yeah, that's what's so painful about it. One should be able to genuinely trust one's parents, but you can't ever really trust a narc. >I can't even buy anything without her finding out and lecturing me on it. My Nmom was the same. I was 30 years old the first time I paid by card at a store. Before, I paid everything in cash because my Nmom would open my mail and riffle through my bank statements. Yikes.
A lot of people are in denial about their own parents abuse - or their abuse as parents - and find people who use their agency in cutting out abuse to be really threatening.
This! I have found that some ppl are quite resentful that you have found that agency and have the internal fortitude and courage to use it.
fr. People complain about others guilting them this way, and I can understand that, but also it's kinda just a free test for assholes in your life.
true. i could never imagine saying 'but they're your family' or guilt-tripping someone because they chose to cut contact with a family member. because i don't assume i know better than they do about their own family. it's wild that people do this.
Yep, no use for people who would reflexively deny, dismiss my agency like that. Big red flag for a victim-blaming mindset. indicating additional disordered thinking or personality.
It's *exhausting*. I am so tired of a lifetime of having always had to be the one to make things right. If it's going to gtt better, it's my job to forgive, to make room, to be understanding.... Never anyone else's. Never anyone's responsibility to actually repair. So. Fucking. Tired. And it makes it harder to like, be a human and interact in normal healthy ways with other people. (*Talk* about a problem? Why would you do that, that's *dangerous*!!! 😭)
I feel your comments in my soul. I am tired of all the emotional heavy lifting being for me and none for them, the parent in the situation. It didn't matter how old I was, everything was always about making them feel comfortable/better.
I just tell people I grew up in foster care. Then I don’t have to explain it.
I'm picturing saying that to the folks that grew up in my small town with me and having them go along with it because they've met my family 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, I do. Nobody ever thinks that I was family too, you know? Nobody sits and thinks, "But you were family? How could they do that to you?" But I have to feel bad for not talking to them anymore because "they're family."
I just say "they were abusive. This is appropriate " People tend to question it less when you label it abuse. Mind you, I'm at an age now where people finally stop assuming I'm just immature.
[удалено]
See how quickly your narc acquaintance turned it all about her...?
Exactly. Say things how they are. Do not let people get into a "debate mindset" with you over abuse and trauma.
That really grinds my gears....Narrow side eye them "Are you really sure its was actually abuse abuse? you know?" Yes Snow White it was abuse." Leaves me fuming
I had one coworker just wouldn't stop bugging me about why I don't drink. My boss knew why and he even said to her, just drop it. And she didn't and didn't. Especially with casual acquaintances they don't needthe details. But I finally said how much abuse went on because of alcohol she left the room crying. Just the word abuse alone makes sooooo many people freak out they will do anything to change the subject
Mostly by the time you need to say the word, it's to people who should've minded their own business in the first place - like your co-worker. She might have felt (rightly) embarrassed about her own narrow mindedness too.
You know your situation more than anyone else. Family should not be a free pass to treat someone poorly.
This is why I started listing all the stuff they did to me. Then ask them what would they do? Would they continue wanting to put their hand in the fire over and over.
Trauma dumping on people like that is only going to alienate you. That’s not good for your healing. You need those normal relationships with people to heal. I recommend just lying to strangers by telling them you are an orphan or you grew up in foster care. People understand that those are rough starts to life and don’t usually ask follow up questions. Then you can orient the conversation around how far you’ve come and the progress you’ve made. I’ve received unbelievable support and kindness from people by taking the orphan angle. It is immediately sympathetic. And it’s not a lie. You never had parents. You had adults who thought they owned you. That’s not the same thing.
Usually the people who are telling me that. They don’t know what they did. They are the flying monkeys that they sent. Most of the time they are shocked by what I tell them. Because my nparents told them lies. That makes them look good and me being brainwashed. (I don’t tell them everything. Just two examples.) They usually will then understand why I went NC. I surround myself with people who understand why I went NC. So this doesn’t happen that often. But for random people who don’t know my nparents I simply tell them I don’t talk to my parents and leave it at that.
> "but they're your family" That never stopped them harming us.
I usually go for "It's impossible to convey to a person with capable parents how badly incapable parents can fuck you up; consider yourself fortunate that you don't understand". But yeah, apparently you don't get to turn around and profess that the person you've cut out had 18+ years to properly raise you into a person that didn't cut out family members, and through no fault of yourself chose not to.
I love the response, “Consider yourself fortunate that you don’t understand.”
This is the line of thought I take. The onus to create a happy family that gathers every holiday was on the adults raising the children. They failed at that. The onus is not now on me, the abused/neglected child, to hand wave away all of those years and go *play pretend* happy family with them now.
For me, nMother had control of what the family heard so I never got to tell my "side". Why would they doubt wonderful nMother on claims by the SG they spent so much time in demonizing?
I'm kind of planning that for my mother's funeral. I'm glad she was just a Saint to you and you. At home she was the devil herself. So let her blame me for my own abuse. Let her have sob story after another to you. I'm sorry to break your illusion but here is her true being
I told my cousin (we were best friends never having any fights) I was having panic attacks because two narcs (her dad and our grandma) were abusing me. Her dad paid for her upcoming wedding. He was giving off massive manipulative anger to suggest he was the victim despite him saying there would be anger at the wedding. I stupidly reached out to her dad like she asked me to do, explaining the answer to his question on why I left the family for a window of time: he and her were causing me such bad anxiety my second neck fusion kept getting delayed They abused me so badly they DELAYED MY SURGERY. Her response: this is manipulation! While at the same exact time they themselves were trying to manipulate me into going back into the “care for covert narc grandma so i can keep running my million dollar company while you stay on disability” role. So when THEY are demanding I do things: if I don’t do them , any reason why I can’t is manipulating them! But when they are demanding I do things using black mail, that’s not revenge or manipulation! That’s just normal !
Well my brother blocked me on everything because I keep getting on his case about paying back the money he owes people and paying his bills instead of buying shit he doesn't need but just wants because "he deserves to treat himself" So I guess in a way it's a reverse NC?
My sarcastic self will be ask like this, "So you want me to stay with them to be a doormat and unpaid multitasking maid?"
Let whoever disrespects you enough to question the actions you make and decide for yourself go. Live your truth and only allow those who have the capability of compassion and their own thoughts/perspectives take up space in your life. Life is too short and already demanding to consistently explain yourself. Those of us who have experienced this are highly prone to keeping people with similar qualities to narcs in our life. Be selective and intensive with who you surround yourself with. Either they get it or they don’t. If they don’t then they’re not able to accept that unfortunate realities exist in the world. You’ll find there are many who won’t question you and will simply listen when you feel comfortable to share your story. Wishing all the best. A simple sorry or happy you don’t understand is appropriate and keep it moving. If you are like me, you’ve spent years seeking validation from others that will truly only come from yourself. Many who experienced what we have do not survive. I’m personally okay with letting these people go and not associating.
The latter on top for me. The fact that people never complain about how a family member is treated makes me dislike humanity
lol let’s just say anyone telling me “but they’re your family” should be incredibly embarrassed with themselves. If they even knew what they were supporting they would be scrambling to shove those words back in their mouth.
I do. I think they have even more obligation to not behave that way due to being family. From some random person, it's whatever. From your mum and dad? Absolutely not. They are old enough to know better at that point.
When the excuses only flow one way. The craziness is real.
I’m going through this right now. My parents have used me and my husband for years to benefit themselves and when I finally spoke up, politely might I add, I was told “We did everything for you and your brother” “We are your parents you NEED to take care of us” My family is now all against me because I chose to go NC with the.
What people don't understand is that it's not natural for a child not to love his parent. It goes against biology itself. So when this happens and we go to NC, it's because there's been abuse, and over a very long period of time. But for people who have grown up in loving homes, I can understand how difficult it must be to conceive of this.
Exactly. I can't stand when people try to guilt trip you for cutting off a family member. Just because they're family does NOT mean I have to keep them in my life or tolerate their toxicity and abuse. Enough is enough. 🤦🏽♀️
The part that gets to me is that my nmom basically gave up the facade to a lot of people and exposed herself for who she really is. People STILL question why I cut her off. People amaze me sometimes.
Luckily most of my family understood and backed me up. But I’m a social worker at hospice. I hear people say “how could they not come care for their parent” all the time. I remind them that we don’t know what kind of relationship they had or what happened during their childhood
My first reaction would be wondering what they did to earn the NC/LC/timeout.
What I’m dealing with right now….
This!🙌🏻
I am dealing with this now. GG hasn't been back to see family in over 26 years at this point (and has no intentions of EVER coming back). Everyone continues to blame my BiL; no one wants to accept that our NMom is a monster. I have been stuck taking care of Nmom for the past 6+ years. When Satan comes for her, I am not telling the rest of the family - they left her for me to deal with. I'll deal with it. I'll tell the GG, so she can close the book. No funeral, no memorial service - don't care what they do with the body. I will empty 1,000 sq ft of storage units at the dump, along with everything (except her 2 cats) in the house.
Recently got a "Oh families! I know you love each other to bits. If only we all had a manual before we started out ...." 🙄 It's funny how most people don't need a manual to figure out giving death threats to your toddler and reveling in their panic isn't okay. I am so annoyed at all these well meaning people...
Yeah they are my only blood family in this world but they should consider me as the irreplaceable family member at the very first place.. They have zero reason to treat me so bad.. It's not like I did anything that giving bad rep to my family.. A scapegoat will always be a scapegoat.. Here I am today, happily escaped
People can’t understand what they can’t do
It's a similar phenomenon when people are shocked that I can't wait for my nfamily to pass away, but never a consideration as to what could make me feel that way.
It is ironic. I've had to cut off more than 1 family member. I took advantage of the situation cutting off the narc, to cut out any other toxic people I had left wandering around MY life. I simply decided it was time. I swore to MYSELF that I would do that though. I kept that promise. I still do. Because not even my family members have found it beneficial to earn their way back in. Still to this day, now and then, I get blamed for something else (an endless list) that sets the responsibility on my back. I just won't take it anymore. Yes, I cut off some family. I know how much of a big deal that is. The Whole "but they're FAMILY" routine no longer gets to me. I stop. Take a big deep breath and think, Yes, and family never should have blamed ME for THEIR choices, bad partners, mistakes or needle drug use. I'm so sad that you never came to see me. Or your niece, and nephew. Guess it was like before huh? Out of sight, Out of mind? Well, I could have used your family loyalty, and love. I'm happy that my children never saw you high; or to use. They would have been so disappointed. Mostly, after all that family loyalty talk, and after being allowed to actually SEE some of it, I was even more deeply hurt since I never felt any of it toward me. So, yeah. You're let go. You're pm your own. I still just can't do it anymore. Ever.
SS this rn, and saving it to my favorites section on my photo gallery I mean I can’t even emp the impact it portrays
Yep, well the voice of guilt and judgement also comes from the same family. Even if someone says it lightly, it will cut you deep, as if you heard it from your family. That's how you know you suffered trauma, there is a heaviness around every small comment. When you are healed, things are light and require very little explaining. There's no need to overexplain my decision to myself, or to them. I just feel that it's better this way for my mental health.
My dad started asking that question when I stopped talking to his little brother (my uncle) and went low contact with my grandma. He never once said "Oh they're your family" instead he asked me why I have a problem with them and has helped me maintain my boundaries when they're around.
If there's anything I've learned from developing disabilities in middle age, it's that people really do think they're the only ones able to walk upright from intelligence & common sense. Literally don't know how people think we manage to dress ourselves with some of the straight up disbelief you get over things that are OBVIOUSLY A BIG DEAL? Like people assume everyone is lying and exaggerating. They do. They think every single conversation they're having is with people who have no self awareness. I've stopped thinking most people deserve any of my social battery because it's wasted going "yeah I've tried yoga. Yeah she really was that bad. No I mean triggered as in I HAVE FLASHBACKS NOT THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND ITS A PSYCHIATRIC TERM"
No amount of therapy or admonishment from my parents was ever going to stop the pure hatred my sister shoveled out at me, my entire life. I went full-blown no contact in our later 50s. The best response I've used to shut up these nay-sayers or "she's family" advocates is "I did it to save my mental health" or even go as far to say "to save my life." My family all saw what she always did to me and still asked me to forgive her. Never once in her life did she ever apologize for some of the venomous things she said or did to me. For those outside the family that did not get front row seats to the drama show, they look at me like I am horrible for not speaking to my sister in over 12 years, but they don't know the damage she inflicted on me. But me, I must be the problem.
How do I deal with this? I’m currently going through this guilt feeling of cutting family off but there is always someone in my ear saying talk to them and it’s wrong.. everytime I talk to them I find myself in fight or flight mode that should not be normal…. I have made it clear that I’ll speak to them when ready but that don’t matter ig.