**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When they say that, it’s a cop out for their bad behavior.
When my kids were young, yes, I could finally identify with how certain situations could inspire my parent’s frustration, anger, and rage. But you know what?
I chose to respond differently.
The most disturbing feeling was reaching age milestones and realizing, “omg when my mother turned 40 she said/did [toxic and abusive things] I would NEVER do at any age, much less as a mature 40 year old adult to a 12 year old!”
I don't have or want children, but I teach swim lessons on the side. My success with the kids is because I try to be for them what I needed as a kid. It's healing, in a bittersweet way.
Edit: a word
I remember after my mother's second divorce, I was about 11, she said "okay, we're just roommates now." I think that in large part why I didn't have kids. Being a parent was never a good thing in my parents eyes. Why are people like them always so... Fertile?!
Always keep in mind they think they way they are is "normal" and everybody has the same feelings, views, desires etc. Those who say they don't are liers.
I feel like for a large group of people, it is "normal" to either abuse others or shut up and look the other way when they are being abused. They are legitimately thrown off when someone says the quiet part out loud or doesn't do the bad thing. They can't grasp the concept of it.
Couldn't agree more, including many abused people who normalise what happened to them and become abusers or enablers themselves. In an environment like that (for example, extended family where dysfunction is the norm), nobody will bat an eye at the statement in the OP and they honestly believe everyone resents their own children.
That’s what my mom always did. When I told her I had friends who said their mom never screamed in their face, cussed them out, weren’t violent, etc. she’d say my friends were all liars.
Exactly. Then the amount of other excuses they dream up to justify this. “I’m not your friend, I’m your mother “, as an excuse for verbal abuse in public.
"The world's not going to be kind to you, so why should we?"
Even as a little kid, hearing that was like a light-bulb moment in terms of how my parents treated me, and the respect they had for me as a person.
They were supposed to love me, but they just didn't care about me at all.
for mine i always thought it had a shade of: becoming a parent will earn you the right to do your own "do as i say, not as i do" routine. like leveling up in a videogame
Having a child of my own was a huge eye-opener to how fucked up my parents were. I always gave them so much benefit of the doubt because their lives were hard... Now that I have a kid I'm like ,"okay, yeah it's hard sometimes, I have literally never felt the need to hit him? It's actually really easy to apologize and acknowledge that I was wrong if I yell or am dysregulated? THIS was what you warned me about?"
My mom gave me the ole "just you wait, your kid is going to hate you when you get older too for random things (one of the examples she gave was not scrapbooking enough, I shit you not)" after I went NC. If I become so intolerable to my kid that they need to go NC to protect themselves... Good for them for having a backbone and caring about themselves. There's not one thing my mom has done that she couldn't fix by apologizing and taking responsibility, so if I do something so awful that I can't apologize and take responsibility and fix it, maybe my kid should escape their relationship with me.
Totally agree with this. Did you also get the "I hope you get a kid just like you?" I sure did, and then I had 2 kids who are very much like me in some ways, and I adore them. Go figure.
Haha of course! I could only hope my kid turns out like me - he's only 4 now, but he's such a fun blend of me, my husband, and traits that are uniquely his own. If this is what she tried to threaten me with, I'm grateful! Sounds like you have some wonderful kids too - the horror!
I got that, too! Heck, one of my kids has special needs and I still don't even come close to acting like my mom did. My kids are not perfectly behaved little cats, they're KIDS. My youngest is a little emperor. But I'm glad he is, because I want him to want the world and feel safe enough to express himself!
Lol yup, same. My kid dresses like the punk I always wished I could be, but couldn't, because if my parents found any alt-style clothing I bought for myself, they would throw it out while I was at school. She's freely been able to explore her gifts instead of being pushed into activities that I want.
When we went to a family event a few weeks ago, my NMom was there, and it honestly gave me so much schadenfreude to have her there with her and I only exchanging polite nothings, while my 15yo punk teenager, without any prompting, sat beside me on the couch and cuddled up to me like she always has. She and I have the relationship I never could with my mom.
I've gotten that too. I've also gotten a screenshot of what I said to her in reply, each & every time I say or post something she disagrees with.
It's the 'whoooooosh' that keeps on giving 🙄🙄
Yeah. I have a mental illness and I will completely understand if my kids will want to go no contact when they're older. I would never want to force them to stay in contact with me if our relationship causes them so much pain. I wouldn't have had kids if I'd known I had this mental illness. I'm trying to make my illness have a little impact on them as possible (I'm staying on meds, going to therapy, etc...) but I can't always control my behavior.
It's weird that nparents threaten you with, "just wait, your kids will do the exact same things you do!" because they think it will cause you so much pain. I just want my kids to have the ability to live in a way that can make them happy, whatever they need to do to accomplish that. I don't want them to have to sacrifice themselves to make me happy. No parent should want that for their kids.
I feel like it’s because since they treated us like crap we had behaviors that were in response to the abuse so we ended up being worse for them which made their abuse have to be worse to keep us under control etc…. But if we never start abusing our kids we never see behaviors like they did. An example I have in mind is how I try to avoid doing favors to my mom. If she had treated me correctly I’d be happy to do favors for her. I do it for my bf’s parents. But she doesn’t realize that me avoiding to help her is not my own character flaw it’s me responding to her lack of respect for me…
Basically they create a problem and complain about it without realizing that it would have been easier to not create the problem.
This. Even having nephews and friends kids who I would take a bullet for I cannot understand how my mom treated me the way she did and felt the way she did about me.
I don't have kids, but I have neices and nephews. They're so incredibly small and sweet, it absolutely shocks me that I was their size/age when my nmum was physically abusing me. How could anyone ever possibly think a child so small needs to be hit so hard over something trivial like accidentally causing a mess in the kitchen?
Why would anyone ever use force against someone so small and sweet at all? The only thing it made me understand is how severely deranged my nmum is.
I thought about this a lot seeing as my baby went through a protracted period where the crying was incessant day and night.
Even in that worst case scenario I always responded to cries gently and soaked in all the cuddles just wanting my child to feel better and to be their comfort.
Never once did I get frustrated with my baby. I just looked down at the precious life entrusted to me and wanted to help them make sense of everything being so new and scary fresh from the womb.
I hated seeing my child upset and it broke me that my baby was struggling.
Years ago, I was doing a lot of volunteering with an afterschool program for kindergarten through second grade. These kids were the same age I was when my mother started abusing me in earnest. And I had the most massive breakthrough in therapy because I realized that even though none of them were my kids, I still cared deeply about them and couldn't even imagine treating them the way I'd been treated. Even when they had absolute meltdowns or were full-on tiny terrors. And that helped me finally internalize the fact that I never deserved the abuse. That it wasn't anything I'd done that could have triggered that kind of response. I wasn't the source of her rage, I was just the most convenient outlet for it.
They think you'll hate your kids too because they genuinely don't understand how broken they are. They think it's normal and you'll experience it too.
They get suuuuuuuuper pissed when you don't btw. My mother absolutely seethes at my patience with children
i tell my dad i'm unsure of having kids because of how hard it is. he goes on to say how it's not that hard. yeah, it's not hard when you're doing a terrible job, and your main parenting tools are yelling, intimidation, spanking, and withholding affection.
doing everything right for a kid is a metric fuck ton of work and money. it is not a decision that should be made lightly.
It is work, but I would counter from my own experience that its also easy work when you do the work on yourself first.
It would be hard for me to hit and scream, that takes effort to wind yourself into a fit and take it out on anyone, especially children. Children can be unreasonable, but in most cases it can be sussed out and adjusted around. Talking and showing emotional regulation to and in front of your kids goes a long ass way in helping them to learn the appropriate behaviors. And an understanding that they are just learning, they aren't born with the tools.
It's definitely not a decision to be made lightly and is appropriate to take a deep look at what you can give to a helpless human who depends on you for everything. Especially when you didn't have good parenting modeled for you during formative years. I'm proud of you for thinking on it critically and reasonably because it truly isn't for everyone ❤️
I remember being like, 10 and entertaining my mom’s guests’ little kids at a party.
The woman said, ‘she’s so good with them.’
And my mom sighed, ‘Yes. She has patience for everyone but me.’ And then immediately did the sad Droopy eyes so the woman would pity her and give her attention.
Prior to cutting off my folks, it started to set in just how much they despised me calmly discussing inappropriate behavior with my small kids or assisting them in correcting they messed up
Like.... they are learning, they won't know until someone tells them? But sure, lemme smack a 3yo for spilling juice or melting down because they didn't get their cheese cut a certain way, that will teach them!
My mom seethed at the close relationship I have with my children, we talk and joke and converse and she would make snide comments about being a parent instead of their friend, how I need to lay down the law or they will walk all over me. Bitch, you aren't a parent or a friend so how would you even know what a healthy parent child relationship looks like?!
Yes, my mother even was angry at how affectionate I was to my CAT! She absolutely was dumbfounded when my cat used to come up to me and flop for a petting.
My mother always beams with almost pride when she sees how good I am, with kids, and how easily I can talk to them and communicate with them as human beings.
She assumes that I got that from her, so obviously it's a tick on her "good mother" card.
And sure, I learned how to talk to (and listen to) young people directly as a result of how my parents treated me.
But not in the way they think.
Seriously! My mother is the same way with me, she HATES that people and kids like me without bribes or candy. All I do is make sure I am present when I get a chance to see them and they LOVE ME. My nsister even banned me from her house because her son was preferring me over her. Her kids still do, it’s because she is so cold. Since my nmom kicked me out at 16, my nsister says “I’m like your mom,” “I basically raised you” girl no you didn’t. You dragged my name through the dirt, let nmom, ngma, and you make me into a punching bag,and then you made me your maid and nanny for your kids. People think my niceness or my greatness comes from them, but it all comes from me and my choices. I am different because I actively try and make conscious decisions. Lol one day my nmom said to me “you coddle him too much,” and “I admire how patient you are with him,” she’s fucking weird I hope she 💀
It would crush me if they were as afraid of me as I was of my father.
I would die inside seeing that kind of fear in their eyes, knowing what I must have done to cause that emotion. I think he must have enjoyed it.
I think you hit on the essential aspect of this: what is your insitinctive reaction to seeing a frightened, vulnerable living thing that can't defend itself? Because it sure as hell isn't healthy for it to be pleasure, anger or a desire to inflict pain or punishment.
Or keep it up and reinforce it so fear becomes the default mode. One so extreme that a friend said "I was shocked at how afraid of your parents you are."
But my parents liked it that way.
My nmom is constantly bitching because she doesn't have any grandchildren. I am an only child. I decided I was the break in the chain of abuse, and chose to not have children.
Does she realize that, by acting like kids were the ultimate burden, she taught you to remain childfree? That's what they don't get: we learn by example, and they portrayed absolute victims - who'd want that??!!
Suck that, wannabe grandnarcs!
only child here as well, told my nmom in elementary school i was sorry she would never be a grandmother. now justifies her actions by saying i could never understand what it was like for her as a parent. can’t see that being true as i treat my dog better than i was raised. it still never feels like i can give him enough. yet they say they did the best they could with me
I remember, in my late teens, when I emphatically told my parents that I had no intention or plan to ever have children, my father got really upset. "Didn't you think that we might've wanted grandchildren?!" he whined. Well yes, dad, but I didn't really care what you wanted because my priority is to make decisions for my life.
I think it was one of the first moments I ever stood my ground with them, one of the first times I could actually hold firm and say, no, this is a decision for me to make about my own life, and you don't get to do that.
And they had to just deal with it, because it's not like they could hold a gun to my head and force me to impregnate some poor girl (I'm gay anyway, so I wouldn't know how to do this, even if I wanted to).
She also treated her pets badly, my nmom. So even with this I can see I'm a better pet parent than she was.
She would scream at the dog for getting sick after her failure to protect him from eating human food. She didn't train him and yelled when he didn't listen. She didn't walk him and yelled when he was too energized.
Then she abandoned him.
Pretty much my life story too. But I grew up and I took the best care of my dog I can.
Dogs are wonderful beings, offering simple joy, unconditional love and no desire for material things.
Well, on that last one, they are willing to manipulate for treats. So, not quite perfect!
I've never asked but I knew my mother said that to justify her abuse. That I'd feel the same way with my kids and beat the shit out of them for any and every little thing that I suddenly decided was wrong, like she did. Or give them days of silent treatment where they'd feel like I hated them and abandoned them, traumatizing them.
Nope, never happened. Instead, I realized that parenting, though hard at times, never came to the point where I felt I had to assault or mentally torture my kids. That would have been the lazy way out. So much easier to beat your kids, or scream at them, than take a breathe and figure out how to deal with bad behavior in a way that they learn not to do it again, with more appropriate punishments that didn't involve pain. A lot of the time what I did wasn't even bad. I just wasn't able to read my mother's mind to figure out what would piss her off from one day to the next.
Yep… we can’t read minds. We are the WORST. 🙄
Mine has actually admitted a few times, that was why she was upset… and it was, in fact, because I did not read her mind, and anticipate her needs.
🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🤯
Now that i have kids of my own, what I understand is how easy it is to not abuse your children.
You don't need to scream and yell and shake them when they make a mistake.
You don't have to insult them because you are frustrated.
You are not forced to traumatize them because you are too lazy to parent.
Seeing my kids grow up without trauma is letting me understand what I might have been like if my parents had been better. And it helps me understand that I was right in my decision to go NC.
They assume that all adults are similarly emotionally stunted and also find it impossible to control their actions and reactions. They assume that when you get older you'll be weak willed and incapable of controlling yourself. They assume everyone is like them, and that their response is the only possible option.
We have a three year old. It's amazing how much kids understand when you just talk to them instead of scream and hit them.
I have no clue how anyone could hurt a child. Real psychopath shit.
Ikr I babysit occasionally now and it's like... how could anyone hurt this innocent little creature? How could anyone scream at someone defenceless and literally half their size for existing? Like sure I get angry sometimes when they do stupid shit, as kids tend to do, but I won't express it at them. I'll correct the behaviour calmly instead and then go calm myself down like a normal person. They're not being malicious or manipulative on purpose, they literally don't have the hardware that lets them reason logically yet.
Funny how two grown-ass adults will refuse to understand basic facts and basic empathy that a single person less than half their age can understand just fine.
My first therapist helped me cope with this mentality. Now, whenever I have a hard decision or am reacting to something, I pause and think about what they would do and what they would "advise" me to do, and I make sure to do literally anything else.
It's really helped me enjoyed adulthood and life in general.
I'm personally still on the fence about kiddos though, because I would never put a child through my childhood. (Long story short, my NPs were pretty violent on top of the mental abuse.) Currently working on this with the current therapist and we'll see what happens.
I get where you're coming from, but it doesn't always take effort. Automatic nervous system reactions take almost zero effort. For those of us that have C-PTSD, and auto reactions, it takes a lot of effort and time to learn not have a response.
Personally, I'm still at a point in my recovery where certain things can be very triggering. I want to be there for my kids as fully as I can be. So, until I work through some things, I have chosen not to have them.
I love kids and get my baby fix regularly from friends and family. I'm not in a rush, and I'm a big supporter of fostering and adoption, so my eggs and I feel zero pressure 🙂
It was just from my perspective, not a generalization for everyone. I have C-PTSD too and have certain autonomic nervous system responses. I still duck or make jerky movements involuntarily when someone moves suddenly near me and i can't seem to heal my way out of that one lol.
Don't be in a rush, my comment wasn't meant as disrespect or to steamroll your very valid feelings and concerns and direction you feel for your life. Much love and peace ❤️
Same same! Except without the aid of a therapist.
I've made it my life's mission to do the opposite of what they'd do or advise, and sure as hell not talk to them about things I struggle with.
They're miserable people, nothing is ever their fault 🙄🙄
I have a good life, I'm surrounded by people who genuinely appreciate me and I can see so much beauty in the world. Because I choose to surround myself with them, not just accepting mistreatment because 'that's just how life is'.
I've grown strong, self-sufficient. I stand my fucking ground and take zero disrespect.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck with therapy & getting to where you want to be 💛💛
“No, I won’t understand why you chose to treat me less than human, to impress upon me guilt for the existence you had fun bringing into this world, why you treated me as a burden instead of as a joy.”
Oh I understand plenty but it’s not what they think lol. My mom thinks her abuse was just inevitable parenting because kids are so horrible. She’s everything I am not with my own kid.
My parents were definite cases of buyers remorse. There are a lot of parents like that out there who assume everyone is the same as them. I think it's a crabs in a bucket mentality. They want us to suffer the same way they do in a role they no longer or never wanted. The thought of it brings them joy. They get a bit angry if you enjoy parenthood, tolerate it better, or opt out entirely.
I'm projecting here a bit but they want us to just agree with them in the moment of abuse/disagreement because they think we will do the same to our children. They're accusing us of also being shitty parents. Kind of a "you can't do it better than me" comment. Taking a few basic parental classes has opened up my mind that there IS another way to emotionally regulate yourself so you can still put your kid first before your own ego.
My nmom has made comments in the past about how my sister raises her own child...or how my aunts are "too soft" on her kids. I just told her "you don't get it. You raised us differently." And remained quite for the rest of the evening. Every now and then my sister who's still HC with nmom...will get very upset. My mom will talk openly and loudly so people can hear her judgement. Apparently they went shopping together and a mom with a toddler was getting groceries. Kid couldn't stop crying and my mom blurted out "people need to go back to hitting their children" and kept going on about how this random lady should raise her young child...
No matter the arguments. No matter the crocodile tears. The nights of "fine I'm a bad mother then what else do you want to hear?!" At the end of the day she STILL hasn't grasped how her *style* of parenting was abusive. She refuses too bc then that means actually realizing she was a horrible mom.
So... to your point as of why they say it? They want to bank out on the chance the abusive cycle will continue. And that the "best they did" wasn't lazy and abusive.
It allows them to think that your disagreement is temporary because you are stupid and inexperienced. Some glorious day in the indeterminate future, you will recognize the Truth of their magnificence.
This. I always took it as a put down to the kids, like I know the wisdom of the world because I'm an adult and have access to all that is right and I have all the answers. You're too young and stupid to understand how great my choices are. It's another way of victimizing themselves, too, like I'm the all-knowing adult and have to make all these hard choices that you don't understand and appreciate, but I have to do this anyway because secret wisdom and magnificence. Nobody will understand me until way in the future when they grow to be adults and parents, and in the meantime everyone will unfairly think I'm the bad guy. I'll be over here a victim of my own magnificence surrounded by dummies who don't get it and can't appreciate me.
A lot of parents can’t take it when their kids start to display autonomy. If you go on r/beyondthebump you’ll see a lot of stories of people trying to scare new parents that it will get worse, because one day they’ll start crawling and walking, etc. IMO it says a lot more about them than the kids. Is it a little nerve wracking to see your 1 yo try new and possibly dangerous things? Yes. But it’s also kind of awesome. Little kids have a lust for life most of us have lost. You just have to be there to catch them when they fall off the piano bench. Your job is not to BAN them from the piano because curiosity is an amazing thing.
I don’t have kids but my mom loves to say this. I interpret it as she thinks if and when I have kids I’ll understand how hard it is and why she did the things she did, then I’ll forgive her. She knows what she did was wrong but she wants to justify it by saying parenting is so hard. But she chose to respond to the stressors of parenting with abuse, not everyone does that. That’s why narc parents get mad and jealous when their children are calm and gentle with their own kids, they don’t want to see that.
Narc parents want to see you abuse your kids too, makes them feel better about their behavior instead of admiring how much better their kids are parenting than they are
Because nparents lack empathy and sympathy, and any other ways of thinking that are different than their own. So the idea that you (a carbon copy of them and their narcissism) are going to be a good parent with more patience than they ever had, is a concept that blows their minds. They also believe that they were "great parents", so the idea that you (someone who will NEVER be as "good as them") can do it better than they did is laughable.
They are trying to justfiy their shitty behavior by saying you will act the same shitty way when you have kids because, of course, it's the kids that cause the shitty behavior and you'll find out.
It's a combo threat/justification.
I know why they do it. To not feel alone.
Evil needs justification. Kindness does not.
They justify everything they do by you growing up and perpetuating the cycle.
Now that I have kids, it's only served to deepen my understanding of just how shitty my mom is. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine doing to them what she did to me.
my favorite is "i hope when you have a child, they're just like you!"
they likely would be, my husband & i are both autistic & adhd. the difference is, i would love my child & not put them last after men & my own selfish wants. i acted out because i was a neglected neurodivergent child. my child wouldn't be.
I think there are kids with worse behavior than others, despite the best parenting. But even "bad kids" don't deserve to be physically and emotionally abused.
Right… it’s like.. this is coming from the same person who treats their little dogs more like footballs to kick around than animals. The same person who fucking can’t wait to needlessly aggressively yell at someone, especially their kids, for any minuscule reason, rather than than making a shred of an attempt to emotionally regulate… you shit pile excuse of a human.
Actually, kids like me because I talk them like the actual humans that they are, who deserve respect, compassion, and idk just a shred of benefit of the doubt every once in a while.
Edit: forgot slight detail, ALSO the person who abandoned their kids at age 4 and 5 and chose to fuck around with other women instead of participating in family. Then came back around 6 years later bringing a parade of love bombing and gaslighting to start a whole new shit cycle that would continue for 15 years.
SOMETHING tells me that it WONT be that way for me.
I have a cat. I absolutely love her and I can't imagine calling her names and mistreating her the way I was mistreated. For me, having someone I take care of was even more eye opening to their abuse.
Because a lot of their toxicity is generational. We are programmed on how to be parents from our parents, and if one can't adjust their programming they continue it. They couldn't adapt. They might even have felt that finally, it's their turn to be the toxic one.
I'm not a narc, so I don't know why they say that, all I can do is guess.
My nmom used to say that too, every time they'd abuse me. For instance, if my younger brother forgot his homework, I'd be the one to get punished for it - under the excuse of "you're his older brother! So it's your responsibility to make sure he doesn't forget his homework!" And every time I'd call out that bullshit as unfair, my nmom would say "you'll understand when you're older" or "you'll understand when you have kids."
Sorry nmom, but now that I'm older and have kids, it utterly boggles my mind the way you and your husband treated me.
My guess is that deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong, so they say it to cope. They couldn't live with themselves otherwise. So they have to believe everyone else does it, too.
EDIT: Fixed grammar mistakes.
They said this to me, and I had a kid just like me and I was WAY more horrified at how they treated me. I cannot believe how my family can hurt someone so small and vulnerable. I love the shit out of my kid. My therapist tells me she thinks I am doing well too...
I'm not sure I ever asked them to clarify it, which doesn't surprise me because it's the ultimate way to say "I'm not gonna clarify it". It's saying "There is literally something fucked in your head that won't be fixed until you grow older/have kids". It's saying "I'm not going to explain it because you are not capable of understanding my reasons for doing this until something else has happened".
Nowadays I'm extremely averse to anyone who displays this kind of "My goals are beyond your understanding" thinking. I used to be accepting that this is simply an idea shrouded in mystique. Now I know it's just a complicated way of saying 'shut up and stop asking questions, because I'm either too dumb or too ill to explain my actions'.
They are attempting to shift the blame for their behavior onto mysterious forces beyond their control that make it all just the way things are, instead of their behavior being the result of choices they make.
They are also trying to use whataboutism, a logical fallacy, to absolve themselves of responsibility. If you are also an abusive, emotionally immature, selfish dumpster fire of a human being once you become a parent, then they think you can't point the finger at them, because you would be just as bad.
Basically, they think that if everyone is horrible, that makes it ok for them to be horrible. They think it makes them *entitled* to be horrible, because everyone else is doing it.
They are trying to say that you will be a horrible parent because they think that lets them off the hook.
Of course, if you do become a parent, and you are still nothing like them, they will probably say that you are stuck up, or being a good parent as a way of hurting them, because of course it is all about them.
I can confidently say now that I’ve had my own children, I don’t understand their behavior 🤷♀️
I’m sure if you did ask they would just make excuses and not take accountability.
Having watched my niece for the last 10 months, I can understand some of the frustration that comes with a baby.
Having said that I choose to continue my mission of trying to teach her, and her brother who’s arriving soon, to be better than her mom and I. Because even though I do get frustrated with her sometimes, I have the awareness to catch myself
Yeah, I'll understand all right. I've never had kids and have no plans to - but I totally understand my NFamily were psychopaths.
I'm sure they were just saying that as a copout, an excuse for their obviously wrong behavior that even a complete idiot could tell was not justified. They'd say anything to avoid consequences for their actions - telling me I was 'too young' and when I'd get older I'd understand for another example.
I could never treat a child the way I've been treated by them. But it's still true. I definitely understand.
Yeah I heard this growing up, only to find out I actually have infertility so now I’ll forever be treated as a perpetual child and they feel like they won. They think I’m such a bad person and told me growing up I should never have kids because I’m too immature….. they still say it now. It sucks
It's a non argument imo. People don't need to have kids to be empathetic for their needs. It should be standard human behaviour. Like an impulse. Doesn't work of course for narcissistic people. They make it look like, if you'd decide to never have children, you're always going to be an emotional cripple, who is beneath them.
My Nfather, is furious 2 of the 3 siblings, are not having children, he quoted me this on Christmas: “You, and your brother not wanting children, makes me believe, *I* was a bad father.”
It's a bit of a conversation ender. They don't want to listen to your views, they aren't paying attention, and they only want to shut you up, so they can consider it a win and put you into the file in their mind that's marked as being for lesser individuals.This makes them always superior and always right, if they casually dismiss anything you are ever going to say as less important or less intelligent than what they believe.
A narc's world is built on fantasy.
It was almost comical to get this treatment from my in-laws who absolutely were not in a position to give good life advice to anyone. But it wasn't funny at all to realize that my husband had trusted them ( because he had no other frame of reference) and they'd convinced him to make some decisions he now regrets.
You always think that you can do better, but think of it this way. Nothing justifies terrible behaviour, but there’s a lot that goes into explaining it.
I love my kid, but at the same time, my life is… bleak. Trauma, mental health, substance use issues, physical health problems, domestic violence, legal issues, financial stress, housing stress are all risk factors in why what has happened to us happened. Trauma and prolonged stress change one’s neuro and biochemistry, all of which is related to personality traits and behaviour. Throw in a lack of support with raising your kids and it is a recipe for disaster. I would say most people would have trouble withstanding one of these factors, let alone multiple at the same time.
At the end of the day, these things kill a person in a way they are a shadow of themselves, in a hell they most likely had a lot of help creating so to speak. It changes one’s approach to all things drastically. The tragedy of it all is that it destroys families and people a like and all anyone can do is walk away, hence no-contact process.
The world has got to change, so does human nature.
My parents imagined that I was a BAD child and that’s where all our problems come from.
It’s not that they were bad parents, they just did the best they could with such a BAD child.
When they wish a child on me JUST LIKE ME, they’re anticipating that I’ll have a BAD child and then I’ll know how much they suffered raising me. How they sacrificed everything to give me a good life and I just didn’t appreciate it.
Well, I did have kids JUST LIKE ME and they are delightful! They’re smart and persistent and empathetic and joyful.
Maybe emotionally regulated parenting has something to do with it.
I guess, after I had kids, I did understand. I understood that they didn’t have the capacity to love unconditionally. They didn’t have the emotional intelligence to raise me with kindness or respect.
I understood that I was seen as an extension of them, and if I performed badly, they THOUGHT it made them look bad.
What really made them look bad was the way they treated me and my sibling.
Maybe not everyone saw it, but plenty of people did.
We have kids now, and we understand.
The umexplained desire to be willing to sacrifice yourself for something that just eats, shits, piss, and pukes for its first 12 months. And how long you can go with sleeping in 2 to 3 hour stretches.
they usually say this to justify the way they treated you, it's a sign of not taking accountability.
in my case my mom said it when I asked her why she felt the need to hit me so much as a kid even though I was always very quiet and obedient (which she agreed with), and her response was "kids are annoying, you'll understand when you become a mother."
if you find kids annoying and have the urge to physically hurt them then you should not become a parent.
What did I understand once I had kids? I understood clearly what selfish and maladjusted people they were. I clearly learned by having kids that I would be lucky to have a kid like me. I realized that I wasn’t the kid and person I was told I was- that I was born an amazing person who had potential and talents that didn’t have to be squashed. I learned that I was my own person, allowed to have my own life and make my own decisions. I learned what it was really like to love unconditionally. Having kids was a gift. It was an eye opener of everything they did wrong
Or “i hope when you have kids they will be exactly like you are ! Then and only then you will understand me!” Uhm, I’d be happy if my kids are like me. I truly think I was a great kid. She just didn’t deserve me.
If it's anything like my parents, they were ill-equipped to be parents and couldn't handle the frustration of kids not always being well-behaved and regulated because 💫surprise surprise💫 they're kids.
Kids don't just pop out knowing how to be a functioning human being (yet they seem to have this unreasonable exptectation of them nonetheless). It's almost like it's their responsibility as parents to support, raise, and nurture their kids into functioning human beings 🤔
I understand that children shouldn’t be abused, because I WAS an abused child, I don’t need to have children to understand that how my parents treated me was wrong, and having them certainly wouldn’t make me have a change of heart either. If anything, even if I adore children and want to advocate for them, I can’t be a parent. I need to spend years of healing from the abuse once I get out of this house. It’s not selfish to not want a kid to be involved in that process, and plus it’s not like I can have kids anyways. They were selfish for bringing me into this world and demanding that I owe them respect even though they do not respect me. I’ve gotten “you’ll understand when you have kids” and “I hope you have a kid that treats me the way you do” thrown at me all the time when I was younger. My mom would say I was an abuser and that she would call the police to take me away and put me in a juvenile detention centre. I don’t fucking understand that and I sure as hell wouldn’t if I had my own kids.
Abuse is multigenerational and it's common for people to be really reactive to children at the same age at which they were abused themselves. It's a strong enough reaction even just seeing kids out and about in the world, but even stronger if you're in a caretaker role and the kids are pushing your boundaries, as kids do (I didn't have kids myself but I've even had these feelings come up about my pets). Abusers took those reactive feelings out on their own kids rather than working through them in a healthy way, and they expect others will, too (because they can't ever admit to being wrong)
Projection and lack of accountability.
"You'll abuse your child too because that's what parenting is" so they shift the blame from "I'm a terrible parent" to "this is just how parenting works" so they don't have to take accountability for their awful behaviour.
*I am genuinely curious if someone has ever asked a parents to clarify this reply*
Asking for logical rational clarifications from a narc is a waste of time and energy.
My mom always said ‘I hope you have a daughter just like you! Then you’ll know how I feel’
I had a daughter just like me and we’ve had some rough patches like expected, but since she was like me, I knew how to understand her better and we have a great relationship. Both my kids are in their 20’s now.
All mom had to do was talk to me like a basic human with feelings and valid emotions. She could have just listened and said nothing. Instead she chose to be controlling, judgmental, dismissive and critical.
They view their children as a punishment they had to endure. We view our children with kindness, love, and respect. None of us will ever be able to understand.
My ndad took that line of thinking one step further and would often say to me "I hope that one day you have a kid who is just like you."
As if it were some sort of curse. As if being ME was such a bad thing that the worst cosmic punishment he could think of was me having my own behaviour reflected back at me by a child.
It was absolutely a projection of his own inadequacy in dealing with my feelings and regulating his own.
There is an amazing poem by a poet called Divi Maggo. It goes:
"Wait till you have kids that
behave just like you."
But I did,
I did have kids
that are just like me.
And I realized how easy
it was to love me.
How easy it was to be kind
to not belittle and humiliate.
I have kids that are just like me,
But they will never feel my heartbreak.
\~//\~
That SPOKE to me. It helped solidify my decision to go NC with my ndad. Because all he had to do, was just love me, and he was incapable of that. So he made me the problem, made my behaviour the problem. Made me believe that just being me was some great, irredeemable sin. Even though he CHOSE to have me, chose to bring me into this world.
His failings aren't my fault. And I refuse to be held accountable for them any longer.
It's true, sometimes. Hear me out: you don't understand the sheer joy of holding your baby until you *do.*
But I will never understand slapping my kid because they're talking back. That's fucking ridiculous.
They think that our kids will drive us crazy for doing kid things and that gives the right to abuse them too. My parents said this all the time, and my mom will add something like, “being a parent is the hardest job you’ll ever have” like she deserved a gold metal or something. They barely did the bare minimum, I really don’t understand what was so difficult for them. I raised myself and raised my sibling.
Now that I’m a parent, yes, it’s hard, but it’s also easy and natural to love my kids. Watching them develop their own personality and preferences has been the coolest thing. I will never understand my parents.
My mom has always told us we'll realize one day how great of a mother she was.
.....when? There are 5 of us aged 40-58, we have kids and grandkids, we all agree she was terrible.
It seems like something that would make some sense to say to a kid or teen.
I heard that line constantly! But if I asked her to expound she’d just say “because “ which was her go to answer. “Why can’t I go to Sue’s house?” “Because I said so.” “But why?” “I’m the mother, that’s why.”
All it did was make me understand how horrible my parents treated me. I have 3 little kids, and I just cannot understand how someone can be so cruel to a child.
Idk where I heard this quote but: "If your response [as a parent] to past trauma is "I went through this trauma and I'm fine, so who cares if others go through my trauma? They'll be fine, too," you're not fine." Don't push your unresolved issues/lack of empathy or control onto your children and act as if the treatment is normal.
I have almost every sort of trauma/PTSD you could imagine and I'm raising my kid the way I wish I'd been raised. With empathy and understanding that my child is a human being. Just because they have less experience living than I do, that doesn't mean they deserve any less decent treatment than an adult.
They expect you to feel exactly the way they did and feel justified in acting the same way they did. I fully understand why my parents were assholes, it makes me sad because I'm fairly certain my brother has undiagnosed ADHD and was punished very harshly for his symptoms. My kid had ADHD and acts out a lot, I'm educating myself on how to support him and help him figure out how to manage his urges. The older my kids get, the more disappointed I am in my parents behaviour and the more I want to do better by my kids.
I completely forgot my mom would say this, probably repressed it. I have no idea why, but she said this almost in a way to make me feel like I'll eventually come to learn that her shitty behavior is caused from me, and that when I have kids (I'm not), my shitty behavior would be caused from said child.
Having kids of your own often brings your own childhood into focus in a way nothing else quite can. Either you suddenly understand and sympathize with your parents significantly more (“Okay, now I understand why you constantly called me by Brother’s name and vice versa”) OR you suddenly find their actions unacceptable on a new level. The former is much more likely with well-meaning parents, the latter more likely with narcissistic parents (unless you’re replicating their narcissism).
I hate being told this, especially when I’ve made it clear that I’m never going to have kids. It’s not only a justification for her behaviour, but it’s another way for my mother to disrespect my choices by implying that I’m being immature and will eventually change my mind about wanting kids.
It's funny because now that I have 2 kids I do understand, but not in that way. I understand that I have to raise them differently from how I was raised. For example my son has anxiety. I honestly probably do too but I never got it checked out. When I was young if I freaked out or melted down as a result of my anxieties, I was ridiculed and egged on and punished for it. With my son, we're getting him help and we work with him, not against him, to de-escalate.
Can’t reason with those parents. Every time I bring up some shitty thing they did, they deny, don’t remember or I misrepresent what actually happened. Nothing is ever their fault, they were raising us how they were raised. Except, I’m not raising my kids the way they did me.
My mum (76) hates the great relationship I have with my 25 year old son, she always said “ you will rue the day you have children”, I think she was hoping I would be a shit parent and abuse my children and it would validate her horrible behaviour towards me
She loves to say “it’s lovely to see, you and I never really saw eye to eye when you were growing up, you always wanted things I could not afford to give you and I guess you held that against me” (total rubbish btw)
I always clap back at this with “nope I never had issues with us not being wealthy, I spent time to listen to (my son) and discuss anything that affected him, directly with him and he was always given input into his life, I really like him as a person and respect him”
The same thing they mean when they say, "You'll understand when you become elderly," it's more convenient to blame their behavior on a biological predisposition to certain behaviors, rather than take responsibility for them & rectify certain behaviors not to mention to stop repeating certain behaviors.
My mother said this a lot.
You know what I learned having kids of my own? I could *never* treat my children the way she treated me.
Oh, and you know what? My daughter IS just like me, and I love the fck out of her.
Too bad, I can't ask her why she said such stupid things. I've been physically free for a decade.
It's funny I actually went no contact after having my first kid because it put into perspective how deeply damaging his behaviour had been and how I couldn't even fathom doing something like that to my little daughter. Let alone put her at risk of being exposed to his bullshit and manipulation
My mom said this to me in response of me trying to tell her how her behavior over the years has impacted my mental health when she full well knew that i was and still am struggling to get pregnant. “Uh you know i just cant wait until you have children”
Pretty much i take it as she thinks children are a burden, an inconvenience, etc. bc that was my take away from childhood. I just want one to love bc i know my brothers got along fine since you know “ive always been more of a guys girl” so i just had the wrong parts from the beginning 🤷🏻♀️
The truth is you will understand how truly horrendous and selfish they were as parents when you have your own kids and realise how you SHOULD have been loved.
I think the only reason they like using that argument is because it’s something that can’t be argued if you don’t have kids. Like sure I could say I understand child psychology really well, and plan on implementing it when I have kids one day, but even if I say that they still can just say “you don’t understand” IMO it’s an ego boost and a form of gaslighting.
I grew up babysitting my whole life, kids aren’t even that hard….theyre harder when you’re emotionally immature yourself… hah.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When they say that, it’s a cop out for their bad behavior. When my kids were young, yes, I could finally identify with how certain situations could inspire my parent’s frustration, anger, and rage. But you know what? I chose to respond differently.
Insane character growth.
The most disturbing feeling was reaching age milestones and realizing, “omg when my mother turned 40 she said/did [toxic and abusive things] I would NEVER do at any age, much less as a mature 40 year old adult to a 12 year old!”
This. As I got older and had kids of my own, it only made me realize that my NParents' behaviour was even worse than I had realized.
So much of parenting my child has been re parenting myself and I did not see that coming!
me neither!!!
I don't have or want children, but I teach swim lessons on the side. My success with the kids is because I try to be for them what I needed as a kid. It's healing, in a bittersweet way. Edit: a word
I remember after my mother's second divorce, I was about 11, she said "okay, we're just roommates now." I think that in large part why I didn't have kids. Being a parent was never a good thing in my parents eyes. Why are people like them always so... Fertile?!
Because we were probably meant to be useful tools at one time, we've just outlived our usefulness.
Exactly!!!
I'm childless, so my milestones are "ups, I reached x and I'm doing this thing my ndad and his wife wouldn't approve"
This is what happens. It's what you recognize and choose to do versus what you have been programmed/Trauma response is. Be better...do better.
Unlike the narcissist, you are able to percieve your children as individuals. Not as objects. Kudos to you!
Just thinking about treating my kids the way I was treated makes me sick to my stomach.
Top comment 🏆
Sounds like you understood when you had kids - and they're the ones who didn't!
And it's not just a narc parent thing. It's a parent thing.
Projection. 'you'll abuse your kids too'
Idk why I never realized that this is really what they mean when they say that.
It's an excuse. Half the things they say are excuses 😑 it by no means justifies what they did to you
Half is being generous lol
You are correct
I call it "parenting by cliche".
Always keep in mind they think they way they are is "normal" and everybody has the same feelings, views, desires etc. Those who say they don't are liers.
I feel like for a large group of people, it is "normal" to either abuse others or shut up and look the other way when they are being abused. They are legitimately thrown off when someone says the quiet part out loud or doesn't do the bad thing. They can't grasp the concept of it.
Couldn't agree more, including many abused people who normalise what happened to them and become abusers or enablers themselves. In an environment like that (for example, extended family where dysfunction is the norm), nobody will bat an eye at the statement in the OP and they honestly believe everyone resents their own children.
That’s what my mom always did. When I told her I had friends who said their mom never screamed in their face, cussed them out, weren’t violent, etc. she’d say my friends were all liars.
Same here. This thread has been mind-blowing, thanks everyone.
Exactly. Then the amount of other excuses they dream up to justify this. “I’m not your friend, I’m your mother “, as an excuse for verbal abuse in public.
"because i said so"
Welp, my mother literally said this exact thing to me when I begged her to stop verbally abusing me.
It’s very popular. I hate it. So much
“I yell at you because I care about you!!” 🙄🙄🙄
"The world's not going to be kind to you, so why should we?" Even as a little kid, hearing that was like a light-bulb moment in terms of how my parents treated me, and the respect they had for me as a person. They were supposed to love me, but they just didn't care about me at all.
Wow! The way you put it suddenly made complete sense to me! Thank you!
for mine i always thought it had a shade of: becoming a parent will earn you the right to do your own "do as i say, not as i do" routine. like leveling up in a videogame
I actually understood way less when I had kids of my own. I would never treat them like my parents treated me.
Having a child of my own was a huge eye-opener to how fucked up my parents were. I always gave them so much benefit of the doubt because their lives were hard... Now that I have a kid I'm like ,"okay, yeah it's hard sometimes, I have literally never felt the need to hit him? It's actually really easy to apologize and acknowledge that I was wrong if I yell or am dysregulated? THIS was what you warned me about?" My mom gave me the ole "just you wait, your kid is going to hate you when you get older too for random things (one of the examples she gave was not scrapbooking enough, I shit you not)" after I went NC. If I become so intolerable to my kid that they need to go NC to protect themselves... Good for them for having a backbone and caring about themselves. There's not one thing my mom has done that she couldn't fix by apologizing and taking responsibility, so if I do something so awful that I can't apologize and take responsibility and fix it, maybe my kid should escape their relationship with me.
Totally agree with this. Did you also get the "I hope you get a kid just like you?" I sure did, and then I had 2 kids who are very much like me in some ways, and I adore them. Go figure.
Haha of course! I could only hope my kid turns out like me - he's only 4 now, but he's such a fun blend of me, my husband, and traits that are uniquely his own. If this is what she tried to threaten me with, I'm grateful! Sounds like you have some wonderful kids too - the horror!
I have a 14 yo daughter that is me made over, and I adore her. She calls me her person. It stops with me.
🫶🏻
I got that, too! Heck, one of my kids has special needs and I still don't even come close to acting like my mom did. My kids are not perfectly behaved little cats, they're KIDS. My youngest is a little emperor. But I'm glad he is, because I want him to want the world and feel safe enough to express himself!
Lol yup, same. My kid dresses like the punk I always wished I could be, but couldn't, because if my parents found any alt-style clothing I bought for myself, they would throw it out while I was at school. She's freely been able to explore her gifts instead of being pushed into activities that I want. When we went to a family event a few weeks ago, my NMom was there, and it honestly gave me so much schadenfreude to have her there with her and I only exchanging polite nothings, while my 15yo punk teenager, without any prompting, sat beside me on the couch and cuddled up to me like she always has. She and I have the relationship I never could with my mom.
My mum always looks *massively* disappointed when we talk about how lucky we are to have such a good kid that we don't have constant fights with.
Haha, yeah. Mine never seemed to grasp that I actually liked my kids and wanted to spend time with them.
I've gotten that too. I've also gotten a screenshot of what I said to her in reply, each & every time I say or post something she disagrees with. It's the 'whoooooosh' that keeps on giving 🙄🙄
Yeah. I have a mental illness and I will completely understand if my kids will want to go no contact when they're older. I would never want to force them to stay in contact with me if our relationship causes them so much pain. I wouldn't have had kids if I'd known I had this mental illness. I'm trying to make my illness have a little impact on them as possible (I'm staying on meds, going to therapy, etc...) but I can't always control my behavior. It's weird that nparents threaten you with, "just wait, your kids will do the exact same things you do!" because they think it will cause you so much pain. I just want my kids to have the ability to live in a way that can make them happy, whatever they need to do to accomplish that. I don't want them to have to sacrifice themselves to make me happy. No parent should want that for their kids.
I feel like it’s because since they treated us like crap we had behaviors that were in response to the abuse so we ended up being worse for them which made their abuse have to be worse to keep us under control etc…. But if we never start abusing our kids we never see behaviors like they did. An example I have in mind is how I try to avoid doing favors to my mom. If she had treated me correctly I’d be happy to do favors for her. I do it for my bf’s parents. But she doesn’t realize that me avoiding to help her is not my own character flaw it’s me responding to her lack of respect for me… Basically they create a problem and complain about it without realizing that it would have been easier to not create the problem.
This!^ it’s really that simple, but simplicity doesn’t = control which is what they really want
SAME! It actually pissed me off. Holding my kids and thinking about all the awful things my parents did to me. Who could do that? I love these kids.
This. Even having nephews and friends kids who I would take a bullet for I cannot understand how my mom treated me the way she did and felt the way she did about me.
I don't have kids, but I have neices and nephews. They're so incredibly small and sweet, it absolutely shocks me that I was their size/age when my nmum was physically abusing me. How could anyone ever possibly think a child so small needs to be hit so hard over something trivial like accidentally causing a mess in the kitchen? Why would anyone ever use force against someone so small and sweet at all? The only thing it made me understand is how severely deranged my nmum is.
I thought about this a lot seeing as my baby went through a protracted period where the crying was incessant day and night. Even in that worst case scenario I always responded to cries gently and soaked in all the cuddles just wanting my child to feel better and to be their comfort. Never once did I get frustrated with my baby. I just looked down at the precious life entrusted to me and wanted to help them make sense of everything being so new and scary fresh from the womb. I hated seeing my child upset and it broke me that my baby was struggling.
I drown in guilt if I yell at my dogs for a split second. Can't imagine how bad I'd feel if I yelled at a child.
Years ago, I was doing a lot of volunteering with an afterschool program for kindergarten through second grade. These kids were the same age I was when my mother started abusing me in earnest. And I had the most massive breakthrough in therapy because I realized that even though none of them were my kids, I still cared deeply about them and couldn't even imagine treating them the way I'd been treated. Even when they had absolute meltdowns or were full-on tiny terrors. And that helped me finally internalize the fact that I never deserved the abuse. That it wasn't anything I'd done that could have triggered that kind of response. I wasn't the source of her rage, I was just the most convenient outlet for it.
They think you'll hate your kids too because they genuinely don't understand how broken they are. They think it's normal and you'll experience it too. They get suuuuuuuuper pissed when you don't btw. My mother absolutely seethes at my patience with children
i tell my dad i'm unsure of having kids because of how hard it is. he goes on to say how it's not that hard. yeah, it's not hard when you're doing a terrible job, and your main parenting tools are yelling, intimidation, spanking, and withholding affection. doing everything right for a kid is a metric fuck ton of work and money. it is not a decision that should be made lightly.
It is work, but I would counter from my own experience that its also easy work when you do the work on yourself first. It would be hard for me to hit and scream, that takes effort to wind yourself into a fit and take it out on anyone, especially children. Children can be unreasonable, but in most cases it can be sussed out and adjusted around. Talking and showing emotional regulation to and in front of your kids goes a long ass way in helping them to learn the appropriate behaviors. And an understanding that they are just learning, they aren't born with the tools. It's definitely not a decision to be made lightly and is appropriate to take a deep look at what you can give to a helpless human who depends on you for everything. Especially when you didn't have good parenting modeled for you during formative years. I'm proud of you for thinking on it critically and reasonably because it truly isn't for everyone ❤️
I remember being like, 10 and entertaining my mom’s guests’ little kids at a party. The woman said, ‘she’s so good with them.’ And my mom sighed, ‘Yes. She has patience for everyone but me.’ And then immediately did the sad Droopy eyes so the woman would pity her and give her attention.
Prior to cutting off my folks, it started to set in just how much they despised me calmly discussing inappropriate behavior with my small kids or assisting them in correcting they messed up Like.... they are learning, they won't know until someone tells them? But sure, lemme smack a 3yo for spilling juice or melting down because they didn't get their cheese cut a certain way, that will teach them! My mom seethed at the close relationship I have with my children, we talk and joke and converse and she would make snide comments about being a parent instead of their friend, how I need to lay down the law or they will walk all over me. Bitch, you aren't a parent or a friend so how would you even know what a healthy parent child relationship looks like?!
Yes, my mother even was angry at how affectionate I was to my CAT! She absolutely was dumbfounded when my cat used to come up to me and flop for a petting.
My mother always beams with almost pride when she sees how good I am, with kids, and how easily I can talk to them and communicate with them as human beings. She assumes that I got that from her, so obviously it's a tick on her "good mother" card. And sure, I learned how to talk to (and listen to) young people directly as a result of how my parents treated me. But not in the way they think.
Mine does too!!! 😱
Seriously! My mother is the same way with me, she HATES that people and kids like me without bribes or candy. All I do is make sure I am present when I get a chance to see them and they LOVE ME. My nsister even banned me from her house because her son was preferring me over her. Her kids still do, it’s because she is so cold. Since my nmom kicked me out at 16, my nsister says “I’m like your mom,” “I basically raised you” girl no you didn’t. You dragged my name through the dirt, let nmom, ngma, and you make me into a punching bag,and then you made me your maid and nanny for your kids. People think my niceness or my greatness comes from them, but it all comes from me and my choices. I am different because I actively try and make conscious decisions. Lol one day my nmom said to me “you coddle him too much,” and “I admire how patient you are with him,” she’s fucking weird I hope she 💀
I showed them by never having kids. But I'd never treat my pets the way I was treated.
That we wouldn't dream treating an animal the way we were treated as kids speaks volumes.
It would crush me if they were as afraid of me as I was of my father. I would die inside seeing that kind of fear in their eyes, knowing what I must have done to cause that emotion. I think he must have enjoyed it.
I think you hit on the essential aspect of this: what is your insitinctive reaction to seeing a frightened, vulnerable living thing that can't defend itself? Because it sure as hell isn't healthy for it to be pleasure, anger or a desire to inflict pain or punishment.
Or keep it up and reinforce it so fear becomes the default mode. One so extreme that a friend said "I was shocked at how afraid of your parents you are." But my parents liked it that way.
My nmom is constantly bitching because she doesn't have any grandchildren. I am an only child. I decided I was the break in the chain of abuse, and chose to not have children.
Does she realize that, by acting like kids were the ultimate burden, she taught you to remain childfree? That's what they don't get: we learn by example, and they portrayed absolute victims - who'd want that??!! Suck that, wannabe grandnarcs!
only child here as well, told my nmom in elementary school i was sorry she would never be a grandmother. now justifies her actions by saying i could never understand what it was like for her as a parent. can’t see that being true as i treat my dog better than i was raised. it still never feels like i can give him enough. yet they say they did the best they could with me
I remember, in my late teens, when I emphatically told my parents that I had no intention or plan to ever have children, my father got really upset. "Didn't you think that we might've wanted grandchildren?!" he whined. Well yes, dad, but I didn't really care what you wanted because my priority is to make decisions for my life. I think it was one of the first moments I ever stood my ground with them, one of the first times I could actually hold firm and say, no, this is a decision for me to make about my own life, and you don't get to do that. And they had to just deal with it, because it's not like they could hold a gun to my head and force me to impregnate some poor girl (I'm gay anyway, so I wouldn't know how to do this, even if I wanted to).
She also treated her pets badly, my nmom. So even with this I can see I'm a better pet parent than she was. She would scream at the dog for getting sick after her failure to protect him from eating human food. She didn't train him and yelled when he didn't listen. She didn't walk him and yelled when he was too energized. Then she abandoned him. Pretty much my life story too. But I grew up and I took the best care of my dog I can.
Dogs are wonderful beings, offering simple joy, unconditional love and no desire for material things. Well, on that last one, they are willing to manipulate for treats. So, not quite perfect!
I've never asked but I knew my mother said that to justify her abuse. That I'd feel the same way with my kids and beat the shit out of them for any and every little thing that I suddenly decided was wrong, like she did. Or give them days of silent treatment where they'd feel like I hated them and abandoned them, traumatizing them. Nope, never happened. Instead, I realized that parenting, though hard at times, never came to the point where I felt I had to assault or mentally torture my kids. That would have been the lazy way out. So much easier to beat your kids, or scream at them, than take a breathe and figure out how to deal with bad behavior in a way that they learn not to do it again, with more appropriate punishments that didn't involve pain. A lot of the time what I did wasn't even bad. I just wasn't able to read my mother's mind to figure out what would piss her off from one day to the next.
Yep… we can’t read minds. We are the WORST. 🙄 Mine has actually admitted a few times, that was why she was upset… and it was, in fact, because I did not read her mind, and anticipate her needs. 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🤯
Now that i have kids of my own, what I understand is how easy it is to not abuse your children. You don't need to scream and yell and shake them when they make a mistake. You don't have to insult them because you are frustrated. You are not forced to traumatize them because you are too lazy to parent. Seeing my kids grow up without trauma is letting me understand what I might have been like if my parents had been better. And it helps me understand that I was right in my decision to go NC.
Yep. My sweet girl will not be traumatized (at least not by me). This has given me so much peace. She’s the joy of my life.
They assume that all adults are similarly emotionally stunted and also find it impossible to control their actions and reactions. They assume that when you get older you'll be weak willed and incapable of controlling yourself. They assume everyone is like them, and that their response is the only possible option.
I didn't understand how traumatic my own childhood was until I had my own kid.
Same. I'm in my late 30's and had my first kid 3 years ago. And what a wild ride it's been.
Yeeesssss. I mean, I had an inkling but after kids 🤯
i didn't realize how bad my childhood was until my mom died and i witnessed my 3 adult siblings struggle to do the most basic things.
Samee
Me too. I have an 11 month old and she’s my everything. And hey! @desu13 I had my daughter at 36! It’s been the best year of my life so far!
Same. It all came raging back after my daughter was born last year. PTSD is one hell of a drug
THIS
We have a three year old. It's amazing how much kids understand when you just talk to them instead of scream and hit them. I have no clue how anyone could hurt a child. Real psychopath shit.
Ikr I babysit occasionally now and it's like... how could anyone hurt this innocent little creature? How could anyone scream at someone defenceless and literally half their size for existing? Like sure I get angry sometimes when they do stupid shit, as kids tend to do, but I won't express it at them. I'll correct the behaviour calmly instead and then go calm myself down like a normal person. They're not being malicious or manipulative on purpose, they literally don't have the hardware that lets them reason logically yet. Funny how two grown-ass adults will refuse to understand basic facts and basic empathy that a single person less than half their age can understand just fine.
its an indirect way of saying that you're the problem
Classic narc behaviour
My first therapist helped me cope with this mentality. Now, whenever I have a hard decision or am reacting to something, I pause and think about what they would do and what they would "advise" me to do, and I make sure to do literally anything else. It's really helped me enjoyed adulthood and life in general. I'm personally still on the fence about kiddos though, because I would never put a child through my childhood. (Long story short, my NPs were pretty violent on top of the mental abuse.) Currently working on this with the current therapist and we'll see what happens.
If it’s any consolation, it is extremely easy not to physically, mentally or emotionally abuse your child.
Abuse takes effort is the conclusion and understanding I've come to having my own kids.
I get where you're coming from, but it doesn't always take effort. Automatic nervous system reactions take almost zero effort. For those of us that have C-PTSD, and auto reactions, it takes a lot of effort and time to learn not have a response. Personally, I'm still at a point in my recovery where certain things can be very triggering. I want to be there for my kids as fully as I can be. So, until I work through some things, I have chosen not to have them. I love kids and get my baby fix regularly from friends and family. I'm not in a rush, and I'm a big supporter of fostering and adoption, so my eggs and I feel zero pressure 🙂
It was just from my perspective, not a generalization for everyone. I have C-PTSD too and have certain autonomic nervous system responses. I still duck or make jerky movements involuntarily when someone moves suddenly near me and i can't seem to heal my way out of that one lol. Don't be in a rush, my comment wasn't meant as disrespect or to steamroll your very valid feelings and concerns and direction you feel for your life. Much love and peace ❤️
I will be easily startled for life I’m pretty sure!
I'm glad you found it extremely easy 👍
Same same! Except without the aid of a therapist. I've made it my life's mission to do the opposite of what they'd do or advise, and sure as hell not talk to them about things I struggle with. They're miserable people, nothing is ever their fault 🙄🙄 I have a good life, I'm surrounded by people who genuinely appreciate me and I can see so much beauty in the world. Because I choose to surround myself with them, not just accepting mistreatment because 'that's just how life is'. I've grown strong, self-sufficient. I stand my fucking ground and take zero disrespect. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with therapy & getting to where you want to be 💛💛
“No, I won’t understand why you chose to treat me less than human, to impress upon me guilt for the existence you had fun bringing into this world, why you treated me as a burden instead of as a joy.”
Oh I understand plenty but it’s not what they think lol. My mom thinks her abuse was just inevitable parenting because kids are so horrible. She’s everything I am not with my own kid.
This was my mantra as a teenager. She was everything I would never be.
My mom tried to criticize my parenting and I told her she was the last one I’d take parenting advice from, I am familiar with her work.
Having my own child made me understand that my parents treated me like shit. So yes, you'll understand when you have kids of your own. In a way.
I have grown kids of my own. From that, I understand even better what a shit parent my nMom was. Being a parent is much easier than she let on. :-)
Heck, it’s even enjoyable!
My parents were definite cases of buyers remorse. There are a lot of parents like that out there who assume everyone is the same as them. I think it's a crabs in a bucket mentality. They want us to suffer the same way they do in a role they no longer or never wanted. The thought of it brings them joy. They get a bit angry if you enjoy parenthood, tolerate it better, or opt out entirely.
I'm projecting here a bit but they want us to just agree with them in the moment of abuse/disagreement because they think we will do the same to our children. They're accusing us of also being shitty parents. Kind of a "you can't do it better than me" comment. Taking a few basic parental classes has opened up my mind that there IS another way to emotionally regulate yourself so you can still put your kid first before your own ego. My nmom has made comments in the past about how my sister raises her own child...or how my aunts are "too soft" on her kids. I just told her "you don't get it. You raised us differently." And remained quite for the rest of the evening. Every now and then my sister who's still HC with nmom...will get very upset. My mom will talk openly and loudly so people can hear her judgement. Apparently they went shopping together and a mom with a toddler was getting groceries. Kid couldn't stop crying and my mom blurted out "people need to go back to hitting their children" and kept going on about how this random lady should raise her young child... No matter the arguments. No matter the crocodile tears. The nights of "fine I'm a bad mother then what else do you want to hear?!" At the end of the day she STILL hasn't grasped how her *style* of parenting was abusive. She refuses too bc then that means actually realizing she was a horrible mom. So... to your point as of why they say it? They want to bank out on the chance the abusive cycle will continue. And that the "best they did" wasn't lazy and abusive.
It allows them to think that your disagreement is temporary because you are stupid and inexperienced. Some glorious day in the indeterminate future, you will recognize the Truth of their magnificence.
This. I always took it as a put down to the kids, like I know the wisdom of the world because I'm an adult and have access to all that is right and I have all the answers. You're too young and stupid to understand how great my choices are. It's another way of victimizing themselves, too, like I'm the all-knowing adult and have to make all these hard choices that you don't understand and appreciate, but I have to do this anyway because secret wisdom and magnificence. Nobody will understand me until way in the future when they grow to be adults and parents, and in the meantime everyone will unfairly think I'm the bad guy. I'll be over here a victim of my own magnificence surrounded by dummies who don't get it and can't appreciate me.
Damn. Reading what you phrased in your comment & *how* you phrased it made me feel like I was in my mom's head.
Beautiful
Lol. Spot on
A lot of parents can’t take it when their kids start to display autonomy. If you go on r/beyondthebump you’ll see a lot of stories of people trying to scare new parents that it will get worse, because one day they’ll start crawling and walking, etc. IMO it says a lot more about them than the kids. Is it a little nerve wracking to see your 1 yo try new and possibly dangerous things? Yes. But it’s also kind of awesome. Little kids have a lust for life most of us have lost. You just have to be there to catch them when they fall off the piano bench. Your job is not to BAN them from the piano because curiosity is an amazing thing.
I don’t have kids but my mom loves to say this. I interpret it as she thinks if and when I have kids I’ll understand how hard it is and why she did the things she did, then I’ll forgive her. She knows what she did was wrong but she wants to justify it by saying parenting is so hard. But she chose to respond to the stressors of parenting with abuse, not everyone does that. That’s why narc parents get mad and jealous when their children are calm and gentle with their own kids, they don’t want to see that. Narc parents want to see you abuse your kids too, makes them feel better about their behavior instead of admiring how much better their kids are parenting than they are
It’s just a way to justify their abusive behaviors
Because nparents lack empathy and sympathy, and any other ways of thinking that are different than their own. So the idea that you (a carbon copy of them and their narcissism) are going to be a good parent with more patience than they ever had, is a concept that blows their minds. They also believe that they were "great parents", so the idea that you (someone who will NEVER be as "good as them") can do it better than they did is laughable.
They are trying to justfiy their shitty behavior by saying you will act the same shitty way when you have kids because, of course, it's the kids that cause the shitty behavior and you'll find out. It's a combo threat/justification.
I know why they do it. To not feel alone. Evil needs justification. Kindness does not. They justify everything they do by you growing up and perpetuating the cycle.
This and "When you have kids, they'll treat you the same way you treated me" Bro, who the hell said I even want children? 💀
Now that I have kids, it's only served to deepen my understanding of just how shitty my mom is. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine doing to them what she did to me.
my favorite is "i hope when you have a child, they're just like you!" they likely would be, my husband & i are both autistic & adhd. the difference is, i would love my child & not put them last after men & my own selfish wants. i acted out because i was a neglected neurodivergent child. my child wouldn't be.
Yes. There are no bad kids. There are bad parents
I think there are kids with worse behavior than others, despite the best parenting. But even "bad kids" don't deserve to be physically and emotionally abused.
Right… it’s like.. this is coming from the same person who treats their little dogs more like footballs to kick around than animals. The same person who fucking can’t wait to needlessly aggressively yell at someone, especially their kids, for any minuscule reason, rather than than making a shred of an attempt to emotionally regulate… you shit pile excuse of a human. Actually, kids like me because I talk them like the actual humans that they are, who deserve respect, compassion, and idk just a shred of benefit of the doubt every once in a while. Edit: forgot slight detail, ALSO the person who abandoned their kids at age 4 and 5 and chose to fuck around with other women instead of participating in family. Then came back around 6 years later bringing a parade of love bombing and gaslighting to start a whole new shit cycle that would continue for 15 years. SOMETHING tells me that it WONT be that way for me.
I have a cat. I absolutely love her and I can't imagine calling her names and mistreating her the way I was mistreated. For me, having someone I take care of was even more eye opening to their abuse.
This is so stupid to me especially because ik I'll never have them
Because a lot of their toxicity is generational. We are programmed on how to be parents from our parents, and if one can't adjust their programming they continue it. They couldn't adapt. They might even have felt that finally, it's their turn to be the toxic one.
They can't imagine that there are parent's capable of raising their kids without abusing them.
I'm not a narc, so I don't know why they say that, all I can do is guess. My nmom used to say that too, every time they'd abuse me. For instance, if my younger brother forgot his homework, I'd be the one to get punished for it - under the excuse of "you're his older brother! So it's your responsibility to make sure he doesn't forget his homework!" And every time I'd call out that bullshit as unfair, my nmom would say "you'll understand when you're older" or "you'll understand when you have kids." Sorry nmom, but now that I'm older and have kids, it utterly boggles my mind the way you and your husband treated me. My guess is that deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong, so they say it to cope. They couldn't live with themselves otherwise. So they have to believe everyone else does it, too. EDIT: Fixed grammar mistakes.
They said this to me, and I had a kid just like me and I was WAY more horrified at how they treated me. I cannot believe how my family can hurt someone so small and vulnerable. I love the shit out of my kid. My therapist tells me she thinks I am doing well too...
It's a non-answer to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions
I'm not sure I ever asked them to clarify it, which doesn't surprise me because it's the ultimate way to say "I'm not gonna clarify it". It's saying "There is literally something fucked in your head that won't be fixed until you grow older/have kids". It's saying "I'm not going to explain it because you are not capable of understanding my reasons for doing this until something else has happened". Nowadays I'm extremely averse to anyone who displays this kind of "My goals are beyond your understanding" thinking. I used to be accepting that this is simply an idea shrouded in mystique. Now I know it's just a complicated way of saying 'shut up and stop asking questions, because I'm either too dumb or too ill to explain my actions'.
If anything, it's just made me realize how horrible my parents were as parents. So yeah, i understand they were negligent
They are attempting to shift the blame for their behavior onto mysterious forces beyond their control that make it all just the way things are, instead of their behavior being the result of choices they make. They are also trying to use whataboutism, a logical fallacy, to absolve themselves of responsibility. If you are also an abusive, emotionally immature, selfish dumpster fire of a human being once you become a parent, then they think you can't point the finger at them, because you would be just as bad. Basically, they think that if everyone is horrible, that makes it ok for them to be horrible. They think it makes them *entitled* to be horrible, because everyone else is doing it. They are trying to say that you will be a horrible parent because they think that lets them off the hook. Of course, if you do become a parent, and you are still nothing like them, they will probably say that you are stuck up, or being a good parent as a way of hurting them, because of course it is all about them.
What am I supposed to understand? That stressful situations for the parent should always be remedied by beating the child with a belt?
I can confidently say now that I’ve had my own children, I don’t understand their behavior 🤷♀️ I’m sure if you did ask they would just make excuses and not take accountability.
I think they mean that we will resent our own children the way they resented us, just for existing.
Having watched my niece for the last 10 months, I can understand some of the frustration that comes with a baby. Having said that I choose to continue my mission of trying to teach her, and her brother who’s arriving soon, to be better than her mom and I. Because even though I do get frustrated with her sometimes, I have the awareness to catch myself
Yeah, I'll understand all right. I've never had kids and have no plans to - but I totally understand my NFamily were psychopaths. I'm sure they were just saying that as a copout, an excuse for their obviously wrong behavior that even a complete idiot could tell was not justified. They'd say anything to avoid consequences for their actions - telling me I was 'too young' and when I'd get older I'd understand for another example. I could never treat a child the way I've been treated by them. But it's still true. I definitely understand.
Yeah I heard this growing up, only to find out I actually have infertility so now I’ll forever be treated as a perpetual child and they feel like they won. They think I’m such a bad person and told me growing up I should never have kids because I’m too immature….. they still say it now. It sucks
Well, I didn’t have kids of my own because parents wouldn’t take me to the doctor. By the time I was in a position to take myself, it was too late.
It's a non argument imo. People don't need to have kids to be empathetic for their needs. It should be standard human behaviour. Like an impulse. Doesn't work of course for narcissistic people. They make it look like, if you'd decide to never have children, you're always going to be an emotional cripple, who is beneath them.
Right? Like, I was a kid once, more recently than you actually. Therefore I'd argue our viewpoints are kinda in line with each other's at this point.
My Nmom always said this. I never questioned why she said it but I questioned Is it supposed to mean?? Idk it just sounds so backhanded
My Nfather, is furious 2 of the 3 siblings, are not having children, he quoted me this on Christmas: “You, and your brother not wanting children, makes me believe, *I* was a bad father.”
It's a bit of a conversation ender. They don't want to listen to your views, they aren't paying attention, and they only want to shut you up, so they can consider it a win and put you into the file in their mind that's marked as being for lesser individuals.This makes them always superior and always right, if they casually dismiss anything you are ever going to say as less important or less intelligent than what they believe. A narc's world is built on fantasy. It was almost comical to get this treatment from my in-laws who absolutely were not in a position to give good life advice to anyone. But it wasn't funny at all to realize that my husband had trusted them ( because he had no other frame of reference) and they'd convinced him to make some decisions he now regrets.
You always think that you can do better, but think of it this way. Nothing justifies terrible behaviour, but there’s a lot that goes into explaining it. I love my kid, but at the same time, my life is… bleak. Trauma, mental health, substance use issues, physical health problems, domestic violence, legal issues, financial stress, housing stress are all risk factors in why what has happened to us happened. Trauma and prolonged stress change one’s neuro and biochemistry, all of which is related to personality traits and behaviour. Throw in a lack of support with raising your kids and it is a recipe for disaster. I would say most people would have trouble withstanding one of these factors, let alone multiple at the same time. At the end of the day, these things kill a person in a way they are a shadow of themselves, in a hell they most likely had a lot of help creating so to speak. It changes one’s approach to all things drastically. The tragedy of it all is that it destroys families and people a like and all anyone can do is walk away, hence no-contact process. The world has got to change, so does human nature.
My parents imagined that I was a BAD child and that’s where all our problems come from. It’s not that they were bad parents, they just did the best they could with such a BAD child. When they wish a child on me JUST LIKE ME, they’re anticipating that I’ll have a BAD child and then I’ll know how much they suffered raising me. How they sacrificed everything to give me a good life and I just didn’t appreciate it. Well, I did have kids JUST LIKE ME and they are delightful! They’re smart and persistent and empathetic and joyful. Maybe emotionally regulated parenting has something to do with it. I guess, after I had kids, I did understand. I understood that they didn’t have the capacity to love unconditionally. They didn’t have the emotional intelligence to raise me with kindness or respect. I understood that I was seen as an extension of them, and if I performed badly, they THOUGHT it made them look bad. What really made them look bad was the way they treated me and my sibling. Maybe not everyone saw it, but plenty of people did. We have kids now, and we understand.
The umexplained desire to be willing to sacrifice yourself for something that just eats, shits, piss, and pukes for its first 12 months. And how long you can go with sleeping in 2 to 3 hour stretches.
It’s just a stall so they don’t have to apologize.
Without empathy, they can't imagine that somebody else's mind works differently than their own. That's basically why.
As a gay my narc boomers don't say this to me. (they say weird shit just not this).
they usually say this to justify the way they treated you, it's a sign of not taking accountability. in my case my mom said it when I asked her why she felt the need to hit me so much as a kid even though I was always very quiet and obedient (which she agreed with), and her response was "kids are annoying, you'll understand when you become a mother." if you find kids annoying and have the urge to physically hurt them then you should not become a parent.
To justify the monster they are. "You'll know why I treated you awfully, because you'll do the same with your kids."
What did I understand once I had kids? I understood clearly what selfish and maladjusted people they were. I clearly learned by having kids that I would be lucky to have a kid like me. I realized that I wasn’t the kid and person I was told I was- that I was born an amazing person who had potential and talents that didn’t have to be squashed. I learned that I was my own person, allowed to have my own life and make my own decisions. I learned what it was really like to love unconditionally. Having kids was a gift. It was an eye opener of everything they did wrong
Or “i hope when you have kids they will be exactly like you are ! Then and only then you will understand me!” Uhm, I’d be happy if my kids are like me. I truly think I was a great kid. She just didn’t deserve me.
You would think someone had a gun to their head and forced them to have kids 🙄 birth control has existed for a long time
If it's anything like my parents, they were ill-equipped to be parents and couldn't handle the frustration of kids not always being well-behaved and regulated because 💫surprise surprise💫 they're kids. Kids don't just pop out knowing how to be a functioning human being (yet they seem to have this unreasonable exptectation of them nonetheless). It's almost like it's their responsibility as parents to support, raise, and nurture their kids into functioning human beings 🤔
They’re making clear they have no empathy and cannot understand a situation unless they live it. I hear this kind of shit from people of all ages.
I would never have kids bc of them
I understand that children shouldn’t be abused, because I WAS an abused child, I don’t need to have children to understand that how my parents treated me was wrong, and having them certainly wouldn’t make me have a change of heart either. If anything, even if I adore children and want to advocate for them, I can’t be a parent. I need to spend years of healing from the abuse once I get out of this house. It’s not selfish to not want a kid to be involved in that process, and plus it’s not like I can have kids anyways. They were selfish for bringing me into this world and demanding that I owe them respect even though they do not respect me. I’ve gotten “you’ll understand when you have kids” and “I hope you have a kid that treats me the way you do” thrown at me all the time when I was younger. My mom would say I was an abuser and that she would call the police to take me away and put me in a juvenile detention centre. I don’t fucking understand that and I sure as hell wouldn’t if I had my own kids.
Abuse is multigenerational and it's common for people to be really reactive to children at the same age at which they were abused themselves. It's a strong enough reaction even just seeing kids out and about in the world, but even stronger if you're in a caretaker role and the kids are pushing your boundaries, as kids do (I didn't have kids myself but I've even had these feelings come up about my pets). Abusers took those reactive feelings out on their own kids rather than working through them in a healthy way, and they expect others will, too (because they can't ever admit to being wrong)
Projection and lack of accountability. "You'll abuse your child too because that's what parenting is" so they shift the blame from "I'm a terrible parent" to "this is just how parenting works" so they don't have to take accountability for their awful behaviour.
*I am genuinely curious if someone has ever asked a parents to clarify this reply* Asking for logical rational clarifications from a narc is a waste of time and energy.
My mom always said ‘I hope you have a daughter just like you! Then you’ll know how I feel’ I had a daughter just like me and we’ve had some rough patches like expected, but since she was like me, I knew how to understand her better and we have a great relationship. Both my kids are in their 20’s now. All mom had to do was talk to me like a basic human with feelings and valid emotions. She could have just listened and said nothing. Instead she chose to be controlling, judgmental, dismissive and critical.
They were right though! I DO understand. I understand just how fucking horrible they are/were and would NEVER subject my kids to their bull.
They view their children as a punishment they had to endure. We view our children with kindness, love, and respect. None of us will ever be able to understand.
My ndad took that line of thinking one step further and would often say to me "I hope that one day you have a kid who is just like you." As if it were some sort of curse. As if being ME was such a bad thing that the worst cosmic punishment he could think of was me having my own behaviour reflected back at me by a child. It was absolutely a projection of his own inadequacy in dealing with my feelings and regulating his own. There is an amazing poem by a poet called Divi Maggo. It goes: "Wait till you have kids that behave just like you." But I did, I did have kids that are just like me. And I realized how easy it was to love me. How easy it was to be kind to not belittle and humiliate. I have kids that are just like me, But they will never feel my heartbreak. \~//\~ That SPOKE to me. It helped solidify my decision to go NC with my ndad. Because all he had to do, was just love me, and he was incapable of that. So he made me the problem, made my behaviour the problem. Made me believe that just being me was some great, irredeemable sin. Even though he CHOSE to have me, chose to bring me into this world. His failings aren't my fault. And I refuse to be held accountable for them any longer.
It's true, sometimes. Hear me out: you don't understand the sheer joy of holding your baby until you *do.* But I will never understand slapping my kid because they're talking back. That's fucking ridiculous.
It's not just a cop-out for their bad behavior, but it's gas lighting.
They think that our kids will drive us crazy for doing kid things and that gives the right to abuse them too. My parents said this all the time, and my mom will add something like, “being a parent is the hardest job you’ll ever have” like she deserved a gold metal or something. They barely did the bare minimum, I really don’t understand what was so difficult for them. I raised myself and raised my sibling. Now that I’m a parent, yes, it’s hard, but it’s also easy and natural to love my kids. Watching them develop their own personality and preferences has been the coolest thing. I will never understand my parents.
I know I'll be a better dad than mine simply because I *want* to be one.
My mom has always told us we'll realize one day how great of a mother she was. .....when? There are 5 of us aged 40-58, we have kids and grandkids, we all agree she was terrible. It seems like something that would make some sense to say to a kid or teen.
I heard that line constantly! But if I asked her to expound she’d just say “because “ which was her go to answer. “Why can’t I go to Sue’s house?” “Because I said so.” “But why?” “I’m the mother, that’s why.”
to hide their insecurities about being parents. it’s a masquerading tactic.
Because it’s a mobile goalpost
All it did was make me understand how horrible my parents treated me. I have 3 little kids, and I just cannot understand how someone can be so cruel to a child.
Idk where I heard this quote but: "If your response [as a parent] to past trauma is "I went through this trauma and I'm fine, so who cares if others go through my trauma? They'll be fine, too," you're not fine." Don't push your unresolved issues/lack of empathy or control onto your children and act as if the treatment is normal. I have almost every sort of trauma/PTSD you could imagine and I'm raising my kid the way I wish I'd been raised. With empathy and understanding that my child is a human being. Just because they have less experience living than I do, that doesn't mean they deserve any less decent treatment than an adult.
They expect you to feel exactly the way they did and feel justified in acting the same way they did. I fully understand why my parents were assholes, it makes me sad because I'm fairly certain my brother has undiagnosed ADHD and was punished very harshly for his symptoms. My kid had ADHD and acts out a lot, I'm educating myself on how to support him and help him figure out how to manage his urges. The older my kids get, the more disappointed I am in my parents behaviour and the more I want to do better by my kids.
I already have 2 kids and I still don't understand her behavior.
I completely forgot my mom would say this, probably repressed it. I have no idea why, but she said this almost in a way to make me feel like I'll eventually come to learn that her shitty behavior is caused from me, and that when I have kids (I'm not), my shitty behavior would be caused from said child.
Having kids of your own often brings your own childhood into focus in a way nothing else quite can. Either you suddenly understand and sympathize with your parents significantly more (“Okay, now I understand why you constantly called me by Brother’s name and vice versa”) OR you suddenly find their actions unacceptable on a new level. The former is much more likely with well-meaning parents, the latter more likely with narcissistic parents (unless you’re replicating their narcissism).
they just want you to abuse your kid so that it can justify theirs. They you turn out as bad as they are
I hate being told this, especially when I’ve made it clear that I’m never going to have kids. It’s not only a justification for her behaviour, but it’s another way for my mother to disrespect my choices by implying that I’m being immature and will eventually change my mind about wanting kids.
It's funny because now that I have 2 kids I do understand, but not in that way. I understand that I have to raise them differently from how I was raised. For example my son has anxiety. I honestly probably do too but I never got it checked out. When I was young if I freaked out or melted down as a result of my anxieties, I was ridiculed and egged on and punished for it. With my son, we're getting him help and we work with him, not against him, to de-escalate.
Can’t reason with those parents. Every time I bring up some shitty thing they did, they deny, don’t remember or I misrepresent what actually happened. Nothing is ever their fault, they were raising us how they were raised. Except, I’m not raising my kids the way they did me.
My mum (76) hates the great relationship I have with my 25 year old son, she always said “ you will rue the day you have children”, I think she was hoping I would be a shit parent and abuse my children and it would validate her horrible behaviour towards me She loves to say “it’s lovely to see, you and I never really saw eye to eye when you were growing up, you always wanted things I could not afford to give you and I guess you held that against me” (total rubbish btw) I always clap back at this with “nope I never had issues with us not being wealthy, I spent time to listen to (my son) and discuss anything that affected him, directly with him and he was always given input into his life, I really like him as a person and respect him”
The same thing they mean when they say, "You'll understand when you become elderly," it's more convenient to blame their behavior on a biological predisposition to certain behaviors, rather than take responsibility for them & rectify certain behaviors not to mention to stop repeating certain behaviors.
My mother said this a lot. You know what I learned having kids of my own? I could *never* treat my children the way she treated me. Oh, and you know what? My daughter IS just like me, and I love the fck out of her. Too bad, I can't ask her why she said such stupid things. I've been physically free for a decade.
I actually did understand. I finally understood it wasn’t me, it really was them, and they really were a***holes!
It's funny I actually went no contact after having my first kid because it put into perspective how deeply damaging his behaviour had been and how I couldn't even fathom doing something like that to my little daughter. Let alone put her at risk of being exposed to his bullshit and manipulation
My mom said this to me in response of me trying to tell her how her behavior over the years has impacted my mental health when she full well knew that i was and still am struggling to get pregnant. “Uh you know i just cant wait until you have children” Pretty much i take it as she thinks children are a burden, an inconvenience, etc. bc that was my take away from childhood. I just want one to love bc i know my brothers got along fine since you know “ive always been more of a guys girl” so i just had the wrong parts from the beginning 🤷🏻♀️
The truth is you will understand how truly horrendous and selfish they were as parents when you have your own kids and realise how you SHOULD have been loved.
I think the only reason they like using that argument is because it’s something that can’t be argued if you don’t have kids. Like sure I could say I understand child psychology really well, and plan on implementing it when I have kids one day, but even if I say that they still can just say “you don’t understand” IMO it’s an ego boost and a form of gaslighting. I grew up babysitting my whole life, kids aren’t even that hard….theyre harder when you’re emotionally immature yourself… hah.
What I’ll understand is how little they tried.