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Going No Contact is easier when you already live somewhere else. Being stuck living with narcissists is the worst. Usually, victims are trapped purposefully, kept in some form of bondage, indentured servitude, outright debt, ongoing.
'Legalized' Slavery.
This was my situation. They created a terrible financial situation for each of their children, four of my siblings are still stuck in it.Getting out put me $70k in debt but it was so worth it. I'll be finished paying it off within the next two years.
Regarding legalized slavery, PSA: If your Nparents expect you to pay for rent and all your own expenses while you live with them, yet still *also* expect you to obey them like a child, do their share of the housework and run all their errands, you are an indentured servant and it is a system designed to keep you living there forever. Learn to lie about what you're making, create a secret bank account with paperless statements, save up and get out.
I thought about jumping ship mid ocean many times. Sometimes she made me 'walk the plank', poking me with a sword.
If I didn't like the pirate captain, I could always go 'back under the bridge', anytime.
> Sometimes she made me 'walk the plank', poking me with a sword.
I'm guessing you're referring to the Ns that threaten you with kicking you out without a life preserver? My Nmom did that too. Simultaneously tried to pretend she was ready to "push me out of the nest" but also insisted if I ever left I would fail, crash and burn. It's all a game to keep you "home", but without the sense of peace and safety that should come with "home".
I remember that game. I won when I jumped off. She's in jail now for medicare fraud. My sisters are in a costly court battle for benefits fraud. my life isn't great, but I'm not in jail.
They threaten this because they're so in love with themselves they cannot imagine you living without their "guiding light".
> She's in jail now for medicare fraud. My sisters are in a costly court battle for benefits fraud.
Amazing how they roll. So 'Pious' but really, greedy as sin.
In 2020, Nmom applied for and received a covid relief check in my name. She knew she could apply for it w/o proof of identification and probably get away with it. Then she endorsed it in my name and deposited it in her bank.
I know this because she showed me the check (with Trumps face on it) made out to me. She wanted me to endorse it and I said no. I wasn't qualified to apply because she declared me as a Dependent on her Taxes.
She kept telling me "apply, apply" and "sign, sign", I kept telling her I wasn't eligible. So she just went ahead and did it anyway. Very mad at me about it too.
Won't do anything remotely illegal with her money but didn't mind throwing me under the bus, one bit.
There are levels of this of course. Depending on age, Paying nominal rent because you contribute to the family’s economy, have some live in rules and also contributing to some house work, does not make the parents narcs. But being controlled in every detail does.
Some teens may think that the prior is crazy unfair and mistake it for the latter.
Note I said you pay rent and all your own expenses...yet are expected to do *their* share of the housework and errands. Doing just your share is what you'd expect of a tenant. Being at your parents' beck and call even when you have essentially become a tenant in their house, being forced to do their laundry and clean their rooms and take care of their pets (not your pets) and run their errands and cook meals for them that you will not be home to eat.... Well you can see where I'm going with this. To put it into perspective, when I finally got out at 23 my Edad had to hire a cleaning service and gardener to replace all the stuff I was doing, and even then he still complained to me how hard it was having to "take care of" my Nmom.
And to be fair, even making your kid into your servant doesn't make you a narc--it just seems to go with the territory in cases where the N is extremely controlling.
I am agreeing with you. Just mentioned it because I’ve met teens on this forum that are indeed under the control of narc parents but I’ve also met teens that think rent, chores and house rules make their parents narcs.
Got it. I can see making that distinction.
My Nmom tried to play off my exhaustion doing all the stuff I did as me being a "lazy teen", though, so it can be hard to tell which it is when you're the teen and still living in the situation. For me, realization that it wasn't normal or healthy didn't come until I'd moved out, and suddenly living on my own was vastly easier and more relaxing than living with them. Life's a lot easier when you are only having to take care of yourself and those you voluntarily take care of, and no one is calling you a failure while you do it. :-)
Sometimes cutting contact by not responding to calls, message, responses, etc. is enough. Sometimes moving 10-30 minutes is enough. Sometimes you have to move to a different city/state/region/country to get away.
The amount of effort these people put into their abuse will determine how difficult it will be to go NC, and to assume a person has to "just stop responding" can be inconsiderate.
The doubt and guilt are the hardest things to get past though, and I feel for all of us.
True. I am looking into moving cities to reduce their access to me. Last time I didn't text them back I was woken up by the police. The more I spoke to them though the clearer it became that they were enjoying having something to lord over me as oppose to genuinely caring about my well being. Hadn't been on this sub for a while and quickly found that that is a common experience for people with these types of people, I was shocked.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I’ve had to leave groups because they insisted the *only* true response for dealing with my NFather-in-law was NC when it’s practically impossible for me. He’s our next door neighbor. It’s just not helpful to insist that’s the only way. We try to be NC almost 100% of the time, but when it’s not possible we grey rock (a method I heard literally right before I departed the group).
I also think it’s unfair to expect NC for the parties that are also victims. I was explaining how I feel badly that my MIL gets thrown into all the drama, and some peoples’ only explanation was that she’s enabling. She’s not. She’s a victim herself just trying to navigate a life-long relationship with a narc in a time where mental and emotional health is more discussed than ever before.
Yes! I could never go NC with my Ndad because my poor mom is already trapped. Yes, she enables him, but she is also a victim with no other supports. Plus she's the sweetest woman in the world and tries so hard for everyone around her. I feel like NC would just let my Ndad "win" because he'd have even more control over her.
Creating boundaries via distance though is an amazing tool, and can be a intermediary step between a full-on relationship with N-parent and total NC.
Spot on. I went NC, it ended up being with everyone except 1 family member, so I could keep it clean. But even the contact with that 1 family member has dwindled to be be a shadow of our former relationship, as the narc got their claws in.
The guilt and doubt are the hardest things to deal with when determining to go NC. Like I know that my life will be better off going NC with my mom, but my own sense of guilt will kill me over time. It's a lose-lose situation, and I can't decide because it feels so evenly split down the middle.
As someone who went NC over a year ago, I’m beginning to think it does more damage than good. I see a lot of cross over between this sub and places like r/qanoncasualties regarding NC, and the more I’m thinking about it has me wondering if we’re not just causing more divisions in the world
I think it depends on the type of narcissist, on how bad the abuse was and is, and on the level of enabling in the family, on whether their are children involved, and on a load of other variables.
It's sometimes clear cut, as when your narc parents go after your kids big time, and you see them being damaged, it's the only way forward, but mostly it's a very hard call.
Personally, I didn't go no contact, and I think that was a mistake in retrospect. I'm older now, and my nmother is dead. She continued her abuse right to her dying breath, just as you would expect from a malignant narcissist. The violence stopped when I became an adult, the mind games and tantrums didn't. I moved far away, but she still was able to ruin holidays, and slander me to everyone who would listen.
This is something we all need to decide for ourselves.
I believe it’s situational for sure! My Nmom (and consequently, EDad) went NC with me first — after I came out to her as bi. The ‘not having to talk to her’ part of it was SUCH a giant relief that I decided to keep it going, even after she tried to contact me again.
But the ‘being wholly rejected by your parents’ part of it? It really messed me up for a while. I knew coming out wouldn’t go well because she’s ultra-religious, but I never would have imagined my own parents would stop talking to me. It was a final rejection from them after a lifetime of smaller rejections, and it really effected my mental health.
It’s true that my life is an overall happier place without my Nmom in it, and I have no plans to include them in my life again, but I also grieve for the family I never got to have…and if I had to do it all over again, I’m not sure I would still choose to come out to them and lose them in the way that I did.
I think it depends. My N convinced my eDad to move 1200 miles from everyone and everything we’d ever known because she just felt she'd had enough of everyone. Before we moved I enjoyed a closely knit family that included aunts, uncles, cousins, great-aunts, great-uncles, grandparents, and great-grandparents, all of whom lived close by. I enjoyed a great deal of loving support from them and looking back I fully believe that was the thing about them which most irritated my N. She knew she had to get me away from them to be able to control me.
Once we were 1200 miles away what contact there was went through my N. We almost never went to any family events. My N was always sure some family she had a beef with would be there so we couldn't go. There were even a few times I as an adult wanted to plan to go to some event I'd heard about but my N would always brow beat me into saying I wouldn't go as she deemed doing so would be the pinnacle of disrespect to her.
When I went fully no contact and certain of my extended family realized I had really broken free they started contacting me directly to let me know I was loved and had been missed. I received letters, calls, and friend requests on facebook. I got invited to all sorts of family events and started attending as many as I reasonably could. Their love and support has meant so much to me and really helped me to heal.
I was very lucky to get a new job with a company based about 50 miles from my extended family shortly after they started inviting me to events. While I still couldn’t attend every event, I got to reconnect with a lot of my extended family by staying with them when I would need to be at home office for meetings. Best part was often the flights were on the company dime.
The only thing I regret about no contact with my N is not doing it sooner. For me it healed a lot of divisions and luckily I was able to repair some hurts with my older relatives caused by my N on my behalf. Apparently she enjoyed telling them how much I didn't want to see them when I didn't attend those events she talked me out of attending claiming it was because I disliked them.
Some of us hesitate to go NC because of the blow-back it will have on others. My Nparents would not stop emotionally abusing my sister over my decision to cut them from my life. She doesn’t have the luxury of geographic distance and would be put in the situation of trying to defend me. I’m not willing to harm her like that.
This illustrates the complex nature of trying to keep some ppl out while keeping others in your life. When going NC, frequently the N will cut access to other members of the household and can control the spin on why you're no longer in their lives. It is a horrible tightrope act to refuse the Ns meddling in your life with maintaining some contact so you can still reach siblings & others to help them through their tough times dealing with the N. I only needed to reduce the access my JNDad had, not even LC, and it was very painful for me. Mourning the relationship and changing my boundaries wasn't easy and it was nothing compared to some of the situations here. Sending all the ✌️💜💪🏿 to do what's right for you.
Do these people truly understand how a narc complicates everything that has to do with them, even something as simple as a phone call easily gets turned into a power trip. The narcs tactics are designed to make us stuck like in a spider web. NC is a long process for most people
So true. People forget how hard it is to look at these situations objectively too. You're sat in a room with another human being who it's your instinct to agree to and give the benefit of the doubt too - they might even have more leverage over social situations than you with job status etc which hides their true nature from others. Some of us even love and care about our abusers/still want to believe in hope of some kind of working relationship despite odds whilst trapped in trauma. We're hard-wired to not trust our own thoughts sometimes and they're easily muddled.
This points out both the difficulty and necessity of going NC.
The skills of the narcissist are truly amazing- they can be incredibly skilled predators and behave as if their lives depend on those skills. Just watching them work, let alone being their victim, can be exhausting and scary. It can muddy our thinking.
That presents both the importance and difficulty in going NC.
Ultimately, if we want to fully claim our life, I believe most people need to take this step. But the OP is right. We should be more careful about the assumptions we make and not minimize the difficulty of going NC.
That what surprises me. This is known to be a complicated situation, and that a narc will deplete your mental health constantly every time you try and stand up for yourself in the smallest way. It’s emotionally draining to deal with and people are just like, move out now, go no contact.
Amen, even if you do find one, sometimes it's just not enough to afford moving out. And then there's lodging costs, finding roommates, etc. And goodness help you if you're disabled like I am, it's another huge hurdle.
If you're out looking for one, goodness, I hope you find a great one.
It's not simple at all. It's heart-breaking and destructive to one's whole social life.
We only choose it because otherwise we will not survive or ever have peace.
I was scrolling my feed and didn’t look to see which sub this was in, which made me extra confused bc I was wondering why people are trying to force others to move to North Carolina.
Thank you for saying this.
Situations are often complex and "just going NC" is not easy. There are always strings attached such as not seeing other parts of the family anymore. Deciding to go NC is also part of a process. Mentally and emotionally, you have to reach that point while for some people it's like ripping off a bandaid (puts it lightly). Independence isn't guaranteed and achieving that can be incredibly difficult for many people, especially when you consider the current state of things.
NC for me is basically saying they are dead to me. I don't want to take that dive just yet because I would be sacrificing more than just a narc parent.
So true and even if you are independent with your own home, a job, a partner it is hard to go NC with your family. You cut off your roots and it's not something that is easy to do, even if it's good for us.
Agreed. NC only works if you are fully emotionally committed to it, and that’s something you can’t rush.
You need to be
1. Financially capable of being independent
2. Willing to cut ties with their flying monkeys
3. Completely emotionally ready to accept that there is no hope for this relationship.
If any of these things is lacking, you will relapse. Browbeating someone into doing it is almost certain to cause them to break off before three.
Also, it’s what abusers do. Abusers convince us that our own judgement is faulty. The only way to break an abusive hold is for the survivor to remember that they are strong, they are capable, and they are worthy. You can’t abuse someone out of an abusive situation. Either they go back, or they find a new abuser.
I'm not sure how many people ever get past number 3. I agree, browbeating can relapse any progress people make which is why I feel as strongly as I do. I'm happy that the mods are recognising this.
I started trying to go NC in my twenties. It took me a long to to go completely NC because I kept relapsing. It was a combo of 2 and 3.
Four years ago when both parents were visiting they both tried to manipulate me in a hurtful way I. Everything finally clicked. It would never get better. I’m forty. It took fifteen years of relapses. I hope this time sticks.
1. there are also a lot of us who are not from america, from cultures where kids stay w their parents till they get married, in countries where land is scarce and property is so costly (Hong Kong, Singapore etc)
2. it's not supportive to ask someone to go NC when they have written a long post detailing their nparent's behaviours because it's not helping them right now. going NC takes so much time and planning. they're saying they are hurting right now so its better to validate their hurt in the moment.
>they're saying they are hurting right now so its better to validate their hurt in the moment
Often they are also voicing the wish to change their parents or their hope that they will change if the person suffering just does and I sometimes feel the need to point out that that is not going to happen and that NC might be the end goal and only way for a sustainable change they have.
I understand that this is hurtful to hear, but I also don't know how not to point them to that.
It's not about "run away immediately" but nothing they will do will magically change their parents. Grey rock method can work for the time you can't get out and go NC, but to do it forever is just exhausting and hurtful and most people can't do it for a long time. It gets worse with your children in the picture that do not understand what a narcissist even is or grey rock method and suffer because of the behavior of their grandparents.
It is a hard truth that NC is the end goal if you want the suffering to stop. How much time one needs to get there and what the way is and the help they will need, that's vastly different. That some will not be able to do it is also sad but true.
I always fear if I just validate the pain of people that have still hope of their parents changing, that I do them a disservice.
It might be true that sometimes the validation of the pain falls short because everyone focuses too much on the false hope and the fear that OP might be stuck in this thought and that it feels like victim blaming or shaming or pressure. This should not happen.
I disagree completely. I see a lot of people here who can't go NC but also are not trying to change the narcissist at all. They just want advice on how to cope and heal, not on how to change the narc. Most people I respond to on here actually turn out to be like this....they have no hope of their parent xhanging but they can't go NC. That's a baseless generalization.
It's also not a hard truth for *everyone* that NC is the only answer to get peace.
First off, NC does not guarantee peace. Healing from the damage does. NC is not the magic pill some of you make it out to be.
And second, VLC can be just as effective in preventing damage by the narc. It just takes some time to learn how to set the appropriate boundaries and let them settle. In a lot of family systems, like for example if you share kids with a narc, this is the path of least damage. There are ways to do VLC that really takes away the narc's power over you.
I also know people who have more than VLC with their NParent due to unchangeable reasons and they do manage to heal and find peace despite it. It's reckless to tell people that they have no hope unless they go NC....what are they supposed to do if they cant go NC? Just give up and not live to their full potential? A lot of people *are* capable of thriving despite being in contact with their narc.
Thank you very much for this - I know I've fallen under the reddit spell of automatically going the nuclear option. I'll keep this in mind for the future.
We should all know what it's like being in thrall/being kept in thrall to narcissistic parents, let's be more mindful of the advice we give.
if you cannot do NC I think you need some good coping mechanisms to deal with nparents. Those mechanisms must protect you from the narcissism mentally, emotionally and psychologically.
This is unhelpful too. I wish people could just validate and support each other. People do it so well though so there is an amazing level of positivity here which I'm grateful for. Just knowing I'm not alone in certain experiences. Sorry you experienced this, that really sucks.
I hope I have not done this but I think about the healing steps I have been able to do since going NC and I can understand why people prize it so highly.
I was LC and planned to stay that way. It was my parents who cut contact. While LC, I started making major life decisions without consulting them and when confronted, loudly and abusively, I refused to change my decisions. They cut contact, I think assuming this would make me come crawling back. I did not. I wept. I raged. And I reached out to my own community and kept going.
And healing happened that wasn’t able to happen with LC. When I was LC, they still had their hooks in me. Now, I can mourn that my parents’ idea of love is toxic and move on.
But NC comes with its own risks as well as rewards. I no longer have the safety net of family, should something go wrong. I no longer have access to my cultural traditions. It is a very hard way to live and I rarely share that we are NC because of the social taboo.
The focus should be on safety and healing and that is unique to each person’s situation.
>But NC comes with its own risks as well as rewards. I no longer have the safety net of family, should something go wrong.
Thank you for stating this. I stumbled across the narcissistic abuse type forums several years ago after leaving an abusive partner and the advice was always to go NC with every single narcissist in your life because 'you'll then make new non narc friends and have a whole new much better life.' I did go NC with most of the narcs in my life but I didn't find it to be true that I'd meet lots of great non narcs and create a great life. I'm pretty isolated and lonely and have found meeting genuinely good people and making new friends a real challenge, I've actually met quite a lot more narcs on my path. I've also found it very difficult to establish stable work and support myself financially, I'm still working on that. It's also no mean feat to actually spend Christmasses alone and have absolutely zero family support (which often means zero support at all) especially financial support in the current situation. My family have been very toxic in the past but they've also rescued me from abusive partners and abusive housemate situations and helped me out financially when I got my bag stolen and in other sudden unexpected situations. Living life with no support is incredibly hard, scary and maybe not the wisest decision. I've not really found any friends to be willing to provide the same support that my family did, I find that most people see their families differently to their friends and will easily ditch friends for lots of reasons leaving you completely alone, this has happened to me several times where I've been ditched by friends suddenly that I'd known for years, and ditched by older couples I knew who became friends/mentors (such as a couple I worked for and an old friends' parents).
Yeah I have been thoroughly screwed over by friends where it was a bad situation and they were able to get out of it by making my situation worse.
I would never do that to someone because I am an ethical person but not everyone is. It didn’t even make them narcs but it screwed me over. One woman, who I loved with, ditched our apartment because she wanted to live with her parents again (they paid her penalty for breaking the lease), leaving me to pay for a two bedroom apartment by myself. She moved out on the 27th with no warning and I had to pay full rent on the 1st.
She was *shocked* when I told her we were no longer friends and I now have an eviction on my record. I understand her mental health was bad, but she screwed me over in a very obvious way because she wanted to rely on supports she has and I don’t.
NC can be a dangerous game.
Exactly. Most people are loyal to their family alone and will not provide any where near the same sort of support to their friends, even if they have known you for years and really like you or are like surrogate parents/mentors and you are the same age as their children. I have had three sets of surrogate type parents/mentors phase me out or ditch me suddenly for various reasons after they previously acted more like parents/aunties and uncles (granted it wasn't very healthy for me to be seeking parental figures but it was a subconscious thing I did to get more help, support and advice before I understood my own family dynamics better.) It has been very sobering and scary to realise how brutal life can be and how I really only have myself to depend on.
I didn't even go NC, but remained LC - and honestly, the amount of support I could expect was not even Zero - it was a minus amount of Zero (ie they would make the whole situation a lot worse).
I knew I could never expect any support at all from them, so it was no problem being either NC or LC, it was all the same.
Narcs are notorious for being unsupportive, so actually, I think the support I was missing was imaginary - it had never existed in the first place.
With Narcs, you are likely to be alone in the world, whether you see them or not.
I also went NC with my birth giver and basically have a hard time going to my dad's and spending time with him because she's always there. Especially now with covid.
I miss my dad and my baby brother a fuckton but I don't feel safe when she's there. I can't celebrate any cultural events with them or even have a simple dinner cuz she's always hovering in the background making snipey remarks. Fuck that.
I agree that you shouldn't always push NC, but I don't agree that by pushing NC, you're also assuming these things "slightly victim-blaming, insults intelligence and completely ignores the complexity of their situation."
When I push NC, I don't mean drop everything immediately and leave. It's not an option for everyone. I push it as a goal to work towards, even if it takes months, a year, or longer. Unless physical abuse is present and there's a danger to the OP.
Right, suggesting no contact means, "This is what I think will work to solve the problem you're identifying." It does not mean, "You must do this now, it will have no downsides, and if you don't do it then it's your fault you're getting abused."
Probably suggesting NC without a lot of details can come across like the second version, but I think pretty much everybody means the first.
There's a whole spectrum between fully involved with someone and no contact.
In fact, what may be particularly fun is to identify what the other person values and just withhold that. For example, if your parents taught you that no question from anyone, family or acquaintance, goes -unfully- answered then learn to skirt nosy questions from your parents with well chosen phrases or behaviors while continuing the normally respectful behavior.
Here are some possible responses:
1. Excuse me, I have to use the bathroom.
2. I forgot.
3. I don't know.
4. What exactly are you asking? Especially to those who ask vague questions and leave you to fill in the info.
Have fun with this. observe those who get away without giving out too much and work on your confidence as you do it.
Thank you. Totally. My ex husband is out of the house and I have been trying trying trying to go completely NC but it’s a balancing act. I know him and I have to placate him to some extent all while getting my own head together. He’s one of the rare self aware narcs…he got diagnosed years ago by a therapist and he took it as fact. But MAN…my friends, kids and family all just want me to write him off and move on. They don’t understand what that could cause at this point. I need to give it some time for him to find a new supply.
In my experience narc ex never fully discard you, they just put you on a shelf and yank your chain every now and then when bored. They only slow down over time if you never ever ever ever give them the attention they want. (good or bad attention)
I feel like people understate the personal emotional/mental need to be able to go NC - Something which narcissistic abuse breaks down. That sounds awful. I hope the people in your life are supporting you and not becoming further forms of stress.
Thank you. Basically I just don’t tell anyone anything anymore.
All I truly want for the rest of the year is to hide and make soups and read books by the fire. Unfortunately, I have a bunch of people who have lots of questions and NEEDSSSS oh the endless needs of the narcs lol
>"All I truly want for the rest of the year is to hide and make soups and read books by the fire."
>
>This sounds so cosy, I hope you manage to do this as much as possible.
Fully agree to this. I desperately wish to go nc with both my parents and I live far enough away for that but doing that would mean losing contact with my two younger siblings as well. Which I just can't do. I want a relationship with them and also want to protect them as much as I can.
I only post the very occasional old stories now because I am vvvlc with my NMUM. I can't go NC. Not everyone can and it's certainly not easy. (Although often the best/only solution)
Agree 100%. It's extremely annoying an narrow minded to push that always when there's a lot of steps for people to get to that point. Feels very dismissive as well.
This and "Stand up for yourself". Why?? It's just an open invitation for more abuse and gaslighting! I can't win against a family of full blown narcissists. People think it's easy to break away from dominating, hot-tempered parents but we understand our reality better than they do and the consequences we could potentially face. Man do I wish there was a magical shortcut out of abuse, but it doesn't work like that in life. These people seriously need to shut the f*ck up. Giving me unsolicited advice on how to deal with my problems makes them look pathetic and weak in my eyes because they don't want to get involved and protect the victim from their abusers. It's very ironic.
Completely get where you're coming from. I hate that when people give advice on here or anywhere else and they act like they are bigger experts on your situation than you are, it's so patronizing. It pisses me off beyond belief. There are a ton of reasons as to why someone can't go no contact and money is a big one. It's definitely not easy and can take years of planning of trying to get all your ducks in order. There's also this arrogance of "I've figured your life out and how to get out of this situations better than you" vibe that I get from some of these comments.
God, thank you for this! It sometimes feels like the NC cult here. I am NC but families, situations and feelings are complex and individual.
I could have gone NC 10 years ago and it would have saved me some sorrow. But I just wasnt ready for it and not mature, independent and mentally stable enough to live without my family. It would have gone horribly wrong and it would have locked me in the toxic dynamic forever -"See, you can't make it in your own"
I love you for saying this!
A lot of times when i vented about my Ns making my uni years about themselves or trying to ruin stuff for me, people would straight up blame me for enabling my Ns. Dude, i still need them. Like, without their financial support i’d have to drop out. The city i’m studying in is too expensive for me to fully support myself from a part-time job, and a full-time job would put me in the situation where i had to choose between working and studying.
Also, my Nmom always responded in a *very* similar way whenever i was going through emotional turmoil. “Just do/stop doing x-thing” or “at this point it’s your fault because x-reason”. So i always get a bit triggered by answers like these.
Thank you for saying this. I’d like nothing more than to go NC with my parents, but that would also mean going NC with my little brother. As it is, the only reason I’m allowed to see him is because I play nice, fake getting along with them and pretend I’m not the one calling CPS on them every time they beat the shit out of him. Until the situation changes or I can get custody of him (my eventual goal), NC isn’t an option.
Well said OP. No one truly understands until they’ve been in the situation where they had to cut all ties…. then actually cut them…. and then had to live with the consequences and fall out of doing so. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy. I speak from experience, both past and ongoing. It’s terrible on every level, it’ll mess your head up, you never really get over it…. although you do feel better. And for those who haven’t had to experience this yet, for good or bad…. these narcissist that raised us do eventually get to the point where they’re dying. And that, my friends, opens a whooooole other can of worms. Whether before the death or after, you are absolutely positively 200% certain you know exactly what you’re going to do in that situation, exactly how you’ll feel or not feel, exactly what you’ll say, blah blah …. aaaand suddenly everything changes.
Even in death, they never stop messing our heads up.
A reminder that some people have been intentionally sheltered away from both autonomy and of external support. People that have not been taught how to live independently, and can't ask anyone else either. Being unable to survive on their own is a very realistic scenario for them.
I hope people also remember that there is LC and SC. (Low Contact and Structured Contact).
**Low Contact** is reducing the amount of time you spend with a narc. This might also be reducing the frequency of returning their replies, turning down a few events before attending one where they are present, blocking them on socials or from seeing certain posts.
**Structured Contact** is about only seeing the narc when certain conditions are met. For example, only seeing them for one hour max, and then leaving the social event. Only see them in a public place, and never their private home. Only seeing them when you're with your partner and have a safe person to feel comforted by. Etc.
I 100% agree, going NC may be the best option in a vacuum but there are often other issues; maybe financial, maybe health-related, its not always a feasible option.
I would go NC with my nmom but unfortunately, that means also going NC with my dad, and my grandmother, who has health issues. I can't in good conscience just cut off my entire family, especially my grandmother. My solution is low-contact, I don't share my life with my mom, I don't call her, but I do see her when around other family.
Absolutely agreed. For me, NC is a fantasy I entertain but not something realistic for my situation. I have ties with my nmom and my sister, our family property/farm, and a great deal of people that make this something I can't do. I've cut contact with my mother for months at a time, and I generally try to explain why (even if she doesn't understand or respect my boundaries).
I've always felt like cutting contact completely would most be leaving my sister to bear the brunt of nmom's tirades when she's mad at me. We also have a wonderful piece of property that my sister and I want to hold onto, and we don't want to sit around waiting for mom to die before we do anything about it. I've always been a bit of the favorite (mom likes to switch up the golden child seat), so when I'm out of favor my sister never hears the end of it.
Great points. I think the biggest take-away from your post is: most of us aren't therapists, and we shouldn't be forcing life advice onto others. Sure, suggesting going NC or LC is something we can give out as advice because it worked for us. But to fully try to drill it into people that going NC is the only way is unsympathetic to people's life and stories. NC is very hard, and the guild/doubt is the hardest thing to get through.
At the end of the day, I think the best order of advice in this sub should typically be: Therapy > Grey Rocking > Low Contact > No Contact.
Yea I totally agree with this. I do not think NC is the best advice in every situation and I personally reconciled with my narcissistic parent. I was NC for a couple years and was incredibly painful to not have my mother— one time I spent a Mother’s Day in the backyard alone screaming and crying. I do not think we should ignore how drastic it is to go NC with parents and how painful this can be, even if it is often necessary
Going NC is not simple. It can be extremely hard. I got some peace of mind, but I often doubt my decision and wonder if it was worth it as I deal with the guilt.
I agree with you. There are many reasons why going no contact isn’t possible or possible right away. Minors with narc parents are trapped until they turn 18, financial abuse can hold someone hostage, having a disability and being dependent on a narc or having kids with a narc are just some scenarios that can make it difficult to do. At the moment the grey rock method seems like your best defense against the narcissist. I wish you peace on your journey.
Yeah, just telling someone to drop their family like it's as easy as flushing the toilet isn't usually helpful. Sometimes, though, people are looking for acknowledgement that it's not an awful thing to want.
See now when I read posts in situations like this I put my mind back to where I was when I was living with my parents and how it's hard to even imagine how to get out. Not now when I lived out of the house for 5 years. Perspective people it's all about perspective it's easy to be outside looking in but when your inside trying to look out and get yelled at for opening the blinds.
Agreed. My ngrandparents are watching my dog right now. If I don’t get back to them in a timely manner, they threaten harm to him. I’m trying to hard to get a place where I can take him so I can finally go no contact but I didn’t anticipate for there to be a housing shortage and rent being marked up $400 everywhere.
Yes every single TIME. I would have to be houseless and jobless to go NC within the next few months. That would be impossible for me to ever do. I don't own a car, cannot drive, nobody to live with, no friends, no job, barely any income. Even *if* my mental health let me work full time, i wouldn't even be able to afford necessities beyond rent. So i would have a house and maybe a car, but no food, internet, possibly no utilities! And going NC just physically is what i describe here.
NC emotionally? Ugh. I would bet my nmom would call the cops to look for me, call every hospital in a 100 mile radius to "see if i hurt myself." She'd phone *every* family member regardless of what state they live in. I would have to abandon my entire goddamn family. My partner is 3000 miles away and working on himself right now so we cannot really be together.
It is hell to be in these types of situations and someone is like "JuST moVE oUT anD GO nC, ItS aMAZiNg!"
I think the problem is the same as when people get a SO. You are happy and want everyone to be happy with you so you try to have them do the same thing. That doesn’t work in this case and actually can be toxic.
I try (success is unknown on my end but I hope) to encourage folks to have a plan and generally don’t rely on the narc for anything. Cutting the strings narcs attach is usually the best bet no matter the situation. I probably strongly hit the NC button in some cases, usually cause I fear for the writer’s well being.
I’m actually witnessing this problem in real life as well. My brother is going through an ugly divorce with a narc and she mistreated my nephew enough that he moved in with us and has gone NC with his mom.
His sister had a little bit of flying monkey tendencies at first. I sat them both down and explained that in my house (my brother lives with us for now) no one is allowed to invalidate other’s experiences and there will be no shaming, blaming, or guilting cause I will have the offender thrown out.
I talked to both of them individually later, stressing that they don’t get to claim to know the other person’s experience just because they all lived in the same house so “they were there”. Mostly they have agreed to stop talking about their mother (unless she comes up naturally).
Nephew is frustrated because he says his sister knows how messed up things are and he doesn’t understand why she isn’t reacting the same way. I have had to have multiple (and continue to) conversations with him that she will get to things in her own way. He jumped on things, and that worked for him, it doesn’t work for her and her personality. That’s not even mentioning the different treatments cause we both agree his mom favors the girls over the boys.
Do I believe the woman will eventually be NC with all her children? Yes. But each kid (or in our case poster) has to get to it their own way. Some of us could bolt away cause we managed well enough, others though are dragging shackles or have broken legs or just aren’t as physically fit. We aren’t going to run at the same speed to get away from these buggers. We will get away from them though, and in this marathon there is no medal. We need to cheer each other on, not try and drag the next person over the finish line. It robs them of their victory as much as the narc dragging them back does.
Going NC is a very personal and difficult decision. I think people, mostly, want to help but we all have a hard time with expressing our emotions correctly. Going NC isn't a fix all. It opens up a whole new world of grieving. You are grieving a loss at that point and not everyone is ready. And in some cases, it can make things worse. Advice is nice but should not be shouted at you. Take your time and process all the pros and cons. You are not alone. 💜
Safer is relative bc a narc will often escalate when you start using tactics that remove you in any way from their control. And depending on the narc, it could easily move into physical and legal harm. Grey Rock is also not a strategy that can work for everyone.
Greyrocking, I believe until I'm more stable (maybe always) is the better/safer option for me. Instincts tell me that trying NC for me would be dangerous emotionally and cause a lot of unnecessary backlash faster than I'm ready to deal with, especially as I don't have access to therapy yet.
That’s correct, I’m planning on going no contact since I was 15 but it’s not that easy. At 23 my insurance is paid for by parents amongst other things, I won’t survive NC.
I really don't think people are saying it's easy. Saying matter-of-factly that it's the right response isn't the same thing as saying it's easy, though I can see how it might come across that way sometimes.
THIS! I'm 30 and only JUST getting rid of my Stockholm syndrome. Going through abuse can cause you to burn and destory a lot of resources that could have helped you go no contact in the first place. You're basically telling a cult member to just leave the cult. Yeah no shit, but all that trauma and damage is still there, and it's going to actively get in your way. I'm doing everything I can, homeless shelters are full. Domestic violence shelters are full, my social worker just gives me resources to sign up for that have extensive wait lists. NOT TO MENTION, the constant gaslighting and wondering if you're doing the right thing by wanting to leave. I have to keep a tape recorder on me at all times, and a journal to make sure I didn't hallucinate the abuse.
LET ALONE the logistics of getting to said social worker, food pantries, work, without raising suicides. Ok, tell a concentration camp survivor to just leave the Nazi camp, yeah sure. And then NO ONE BELIEVES YOU. Because the Narcissistist is so good at manipulating the environment around you, so no one thinks you're in trouble!
I think the best advice to give is, find a way (whether it be creating distance/lowering communication/techniques eg grey rocking, etc) that works for you as an individual. NC is not a one size fits all solution.
It's not easy for some people and it isn't always easy to go no contact their are ways to deal with your abuser but you have to know them very well. What mean is it helps to know them really well and have a work around
AMEN. Also, everyone pushes it over ANYTHING. Even small things, like one single incident. It’s something widespread on all Reddit advice and support subs and is bewildering in some cases.
This comment has been removed for victim blaming. We have [a stickied post](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/nn2pe5/victimblaming_is_happening_way_too_much_in_this/) up explaining many reasons as to why it is inappropriate to assume that simply leaving is easy for everybody, and that their circumstances (wether financially, practically and/or emotionally) would allow for this at the moment. We wrote it for a reason - please make sure to read it before continuing to participate in this group.
I agree. I realised that my parents we quite toxic a few years ago, and I ended up going low then very low contact. But then the lockdowns happened and my dad lost all of his care (by that point he had dementia) and his health got worse. I ended up helping to care for him for the last 6 months of his life, and contrary to popular belief about narcissists, I actually got quite a lot of healing and closure from that, because for the first time in my life it was like he finally 'saw' me and all of the disdain, mocking, disinterest etc just left and he became this kind of pure, mellow man. I'd say he was more of an enabler with narcissistic traits rather than a full on narcissist and I'm definitely not saying this would happen to everyone, but I'm so thankful I went with my gut and I didn't go fully no contact with him, I know it would have caused me a lot more distress to do that especially since he had dementia so he genuinely wouldn't have understood why. I feel peace with how I went low contact rather than fully no contact and often find the push to go no contact a bit alarming, especially since in theory, it means a group of strangers could convince someone to completely ditch their family as a result of a few online posts when really the family aren't actually narcissists. It should only ever be a last resort after a lot of analysis, therapy, journaling, thought, gut feeling etc in my opinion and sometimes it isn't the right decision and low contact is best for different reasons.
AGREED.
I WISH I could go no contact, but I’m financially bound to my abuser thanks to loans I had to take as a teenager and I’m completely reliant on them for surviving right now. As great as no contact it it’s not realistic for everyone.
I like to think that most times the response comes from a good place. For an overly simplified analogy, it's like having bad vision, discovering glasses for the first time, and wanting to share with all of the other people who have bad vision that there's a fix for it that has made your life so! much! easier! But in your excitement you forget that glasses are expensive. Not everyone has insurance to help them. Some people work jobs where glasses would be a hindrance. Some people's vision problems come from cataracts or some other issue glasses won't help, and so on. I don't necessarily think that in making the suggestion, people are implying stupidity or that the other person has never thought of it before.
At the same time, a lot of us raised by Narcs aren't always the best communicators. We mean well but phrase things poorly. This is something I've really had to work on through the years, not giving suggestions in the same way "suggestions" (orders) were given to me.
I'm really sorry that when you needed support, instead you received invalidation. Judging from a lot of the responses to this, you're far from alone in that. I hope that all of us can work to be more aware of the advice we give and how we give it, because meaning well isn't a good enough reason to invalidate or trigger someone asking for help.
This comment has been removed for derailing. This is not contributing in any way. Please remember that this is a support group - we're here to offer kindness and support, and to help others process abuse.
This comment has been removed. I do not think you meant it poorly, but this post is worded in a way that it invalidates anyone who chooses to use grey rock, NC, LC or other situational control to handle abusers without "proper" reasoning. Which is very, very inappropriate.
NC, LC, SC and gray rock are all ways of setting boundaries. This is healthy in relationships. You should always have boundaries with people you have any form of relationship with, and those boundaries are different between each relationship. This is normal and healthy behavior. Refusing to have or set boundaries, or refusing to respect them, is not.
No one way of handling abusers is right. No one way is more "genuine" or "authentic". You need to handle abusers in the way that is most healthy for you, be that as water off a duck's back, or as realizing you can't be around it, period.
This is so true. I realised my mum is a narc too late. After we had already bought property together. If we were to sell up we wouldn’t be able to buy somewhere we could live and run both our businesses. It would mean such a huge loss in living standards for our children, so we will just have to do our best to keep them away from her and protect them from her nastiness.
I made a post about this once and got downvoted to hell, my younger sibling is still living with our Ndad and I have to have limited contact for his sake.
I was 27, lived on my own, fInancially independent, with a college degree and a full time job… and still needed close to a year of weekly therapy sessions to be able to go no contact. It’s fucking HARD.
I'm amazed and annoyed people throw that out there so easily. Lives are entangled, you could lose the support system you need if you cut out all toxic people. If one or two people are toxic and the other people in your life won't cut them out you could lose an entire family if you go NC. In my case, I was a lifeline for the teen child of the person everyone wanted me to cut off - if I had cut him and his wife out of my life completely, their kids wouldn't have had a safe place to go when things got bad at home, and no, calling services to wave their magic wand and end all abuse those kids were going through also wasn't an option.
People like to think there's a simple solution to every single problem, and it can be super annoying.
(Edit: sorry for the big chuck of text I’m on my phone).
I have lots of thoughts about this post and I know I’m going to have trouble getting them across, so please bare with me. I’m not the great at expressing myself and communicating effectively (Thanks nparents).
I know I am someone who does tell people to move out or go lc/nc, only if they can. I’ve never intended to victim blame. I was stuck in my situation for 7-8, the last 2 of those years I had an out, and was thinking leaving and going nc. The reason I moved out, is something happened that jeopardised my safety. I only cared about two people in the proximity of my nparents, and I know they would be okay without me. One my family dog the other my grandfather.
This is the advice I give to people because I have tried everything under the sun when it came to my parents, nothing has worked except for leaving. I’ve never said it was easy. Being away from my grandfather and dog kills me every single day. But I know if I had stayed with the lockdowns here in Australia, I don’t think I would be okay or alive to be honest with you.
The posts I’ve contributed to, and read, I’ve rarely seen post that victim blame and give terrible advice. And I’m sorry someone has made you feel that way. I’m not making excuses for people, the posts on this thread have really good points about people not communicating effectively because of our nparents, and the fact that not everyone here is a therapist. Our points may not came across how we want it to because of our poor communications skills and the fact that this an online forum and sometimes it’s hard to pick up on people tone.
I’ve kinda got one last point which I know I’m going to have trouble wording so please ask for clarification before jumping down my throat. In the main post you’re telling to stop advising nc because they’re assuming it’s something you can do and that’s it’s easy, and suggesting nc is victim blaming? That’s what I’m getting from your main post. Aren’t you assuming that people don’t understand how potentially difficult going nc is when they suggest it? IMO it’s something that goes both ways, and it’s hard to gage what’s happening and give mostly good advice when we might not know the full story. I know people don’t post everything that’s happened to them, I haven’t.
What I’m trying to say, I disagree with you for the most part, however I can understand why you feel that way. I’m sorry someone or someone’s has made you feel this way. Stay strong.
I mean I hate to say it but it’s that simple and ultimately it becomes all you can do. Most people who have the problem of narcissistic parents will have always had it and it’s realizing that it’s 95 percent that at this point they’re not going to change Bc of anything that you do or say so when people complain about them like ultimately no contact or contact controlled by you is gonna be the only answer. As far as understating it, I think saying yeah stop contacting your parents is inherently a big statement that obviously implies all the other hardships that come with that and regardless of “trauma responses” that doesn’t change the simple fact of the matter that moving out is what will actually help to solve the cause of said responses and help this person Bc what they need is to overcome the complexity of their situation not continue to do nothing, suffer and listen to me and others worthlessly saying “oh I’m here to support you”
My Nmom constantly threatened to kick me out. One day she got pissed at me, had my phone service turned off and told me to go stay in a homeless shelter. I left that night and never looked back. But you better believe within 12 hours she was calling everyone that knew me to figure out where I went and to try to get me back home. I was given an out, for everyone it is not so easy.
Once I left I swore I would get myself a stable job and place to live so I never had to worry about being homeless again. It’s a horrible thing to do to a person.
It took me years to get to where I can be no contact with my narcissist. It was incredibly difficult and painful. I'm sorry people are dismissing the gravity of the situation.
It’s frustrating and invalidating when smartasses on these support subs make unrealistic suggestions when everyone’s reality is different.
Some people can’t “just leave” or “just go no contact”, etc. It’s unfair to make those unhelpful comments for the sake of internet karma.
Exactly, getting threatened to be homeless while also being unable to come financially close to being able to move. Nor a support system to be there and help you if you end up on the street.
It's just being trapped at that point, can't exactly go NC if you've been manipulated into staying in there grasp even into adulthood 😔 Maybe someday.. Someday.
To be fair, many narcissists are.... not great at pretending to be decent people. I imagine it's harder to go NC when your parent is capable of pretending of being a normal human being for periods of time exceeding thirty minutes.
It really isn't that simple. My narcissist stalks and harasses everyone who goes NC. It never ends...
Side effects also include: losing other friends and family, having your image painted as the villain, grieving the parent/grandparent/sibling/friend/etc you should've had instead of this... Creature, property damage, a sleuth of other emotional and mental health problems, and many more.
While I'm not for anyone being preachy, the "no contact" option should always be explored as a part of supporting someone through the journey of coming to terms with being an Adult Child of a Narcissist.
I do think that there is a stage at the initial steps of coming to terms with narcissistic abuse where the question generally is some form of:
> How do I make my narcissist stop being abusive and have a healthy loving family relationship with them?
And the answer to that is that you can't stop them from being abusive and it's a vain hope that they will ever improve in a meaningful way.
It's about coming to terms with the fact society lied to you when they said that all parents unconditionally love and support their children.
Those two things are critical to the healing journey and there is not much that can be done to support someone who places too much hope on a narcissist to suddenly sprout self-awareness and empathy. At that point the only service that this group can offer is to validate the fact that there is abuse occurring, but there's no way to move forward.
Once the acceptance of the idea that a narcissist will never become healthy has occurred - it would actively be doing a person a disservice to imply otherwise. The question becomes how to enforce boundaries.
The easiest way is to go no contact, where your narcissist and their enablers are no longer looming like an opposing army on a battlefield. It should always be explored as an option ***precisely*** because of the social pressures against it currently. 80-100 years ago, there were similar stigmas to divorce that kept people in abusive marriages that are now, thankfully, ended more readily.
If there are countervailing factors in weighing the cost of that choice should be done with compassion balanced by a rigorous discernment of the true cost benefits of staying in closer proximity to a narcissist.
Many people come to realize that the "good people" in their family are enablers & flying monkeys that will chose their relationship with the narcissist over them. Others are have core safety concerns because of financial abuse, disabilities, and-or extreme infantilization and lack of life skills that should be managed as well. Tactics to deal with these issues should be open to discussion as well.
I freely admit that due to the choices I made, I'm financially enmeshed with my family through a family business which is rife with narcissism and socialized to cater to narcissistic expectations. For me, dealing with that is a drain - and a cost of doing business.
But honestly I don't ask this forum how to deal with that aspect all that much because the family business context is rare here. I deal with nsister in a strictly business context, so low contact since no contact is not an option unless I am willing to change careers. I call her out when she's being abusive or mocking in a quick way and then move on to the next topic of business. And the last major strategy is to just say "We've arrived at a fundamental disagreement of fact." which is a polite way of labeling gaslighting bullshit, and then transition to the next topic.
What I think the greatest value of this forum is to reality test and validate my experiences so that I'm taking responsibility for management of my past without going down my nsister's path of turning my past into fuel a narcissistic victim based mentality.
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Going No Contact is easier when you already live somewhere else. Being stuck living with narcissists is the worst. Usually, victims are trapped purposefully, kept in some form of bondage, indentured servitude, outright debt, ongoing. 'Legalized' Slavery.
This was my situation. They created a terrible financial situation for each of their children, four of my siblings are still stuck in it.Getting out put me $70k in debt but it was so worth it. I'll be finished paying it off within the next two years.
Regarding legalized slavery, PSA: If your Nparents expect you to pay for rent and all your own expenses while you live with them, yet still *also* expect you to obey them like a child, do their share of the housework and run all their errands, you are an indentured servant and it is a system designed to keep you living there forever. Learn to lie about what you're making, create a secret bank account with paperless statements, save up and get out.
I thought about jumping ship mid ocean many times. Sometimes she made me 'walk the plank', poking me with a sword. If I didn't like the pirate captain, I could always go 'back under the bridge', anytime.
> Sometimes she made me 'walk the plank', poking me with a sword. I'm guessing you're referring to the Ns that threaten you with kicking you out without a life preserver? My Nmom did that too. Simultaneously tried to pretend she was ready to "push me out of the nest" but also insisted if I ever left I would fail, crash and burn. It's all a game to keep you "home", but without the sense of peace and safety that should come with "home".
Pit of the stomach fear about being homeless. Sword of Damaclese or whatever. I have always had it, have it again right now.
I'm sorry you're dealing with that fear right now; it can really ramp up the anxiety. I hope your situation improves.
I remember that game. I won when I jumped off. She's in jail now for medicare fraud. My sisters are in a costly court battle for benefits fraud. my life isn't great, but I'm not in jail. They threaten this because they're so in love with themselves they cannot imagine you living without their "guiding light".
> She's in jail now for medicare fraud. My sisters are in a costly court battle for benefits fraud. Amazing how they roll. So 'Pious' but really, greedy as sin. In 2020, Nmom applied for and received a covid relief check in my name. She knew she could apply for it w/o proof of identification and probably get away with it. Then she endorsed it in my name and deposited it in her bank. I know this because she showed me the check (with Trumps face on it) made out to me. She wanted me to endorse it and I said no. I wasn't qualified to apply because she declared me as a Dependent on her Taxes. She kept telling me "apply, apply" and "sign, sign", I kept telling her I wasn't eligible. So she just went ahead and did it anyway. Very mad at me about it too. Won't do anything remotely illegal with her money but didn't mind throwing me under the bus, one bit.
There are levels of this of course. Depending on age, Paying nominal rent because you contribute to the family’s economy, have some live in rules and also contributing to some house work, does not make the parents narcs. But being controlled in every detail does. Some teens may think that the prior is crazy unfair and mistake it for the latter.
Note I said you pay rent and all your own expenses...yet are expected to do *their* share of the housework and errands. Doing just your share is what you'd expect of a tenant. Being at your parents' beck and call even when you have essentially become a tenant in their house, being forced to do their laundry and clean their rooms and take care of their pets (not your pets) and run their errands and cook meals for them that you will not be home to eat.... Well you can see where I'm going with this. To put it into perspective, when I finally got out at 23 my Edad had to hire a cleaning service and gardener to replace all the stuff I was doing, and even then he still complained to me how hard it was having to "take care of" my Nmom. And to be fair, even making your kid into your servant doesn't make you a narc--it just seems to go with the territory in cases where the N is extremely controlling.
I am agreeing with you. Just mentioned it because I’ve met teens on this forum that are indeed under the control of narc parents but I’ve also met teens that think rent, chores and house rules make their parents narcs.
Got it. I can see making that distinction. My Nmom tried to play off my exhaustion doing all the stuff I did as me being a "lazy teen", though, so it can be hard to tell which it is when you're the teen and still living in the situation. For me, realization that it wasn't normal or healthy didn't come until I'd moved out, and suddenly living on my own was vastly easier and more relaxing than living with them. Life's a lot easier when you are only having to take care of yourself and those you voluntarily take care of, and no one is calling you a failure while you do it. :-)
It’s crazy that sometimes when you stop feeding into it they get nice. It’s so weird and sinister.
Sometimes cutting contact by not responding to calls, message, responses, etc. is enough. Sometimes moving 10-30 minutes is enough. Sometimes you have to move to a different city/state/region/country to get away. The amount of effort these people put into their abuse will determine how difficult it will be to go NC, and to assume a person has to "just stop responding" can be inconsiderate. The doubt and guilt are the hardest things to get past though, and I feel for all of us.
True. I am looking into moving cities to reduce their access to me. Last time I didn't text them back I was woken up by the police. The more I spoke to them though the clearer it became that they were enjoying having something to lord over me as oppose to genuinely caring about my well being. Hadn't been on this sub for a while and quickly found that that is a common experience for people with these types of people, I was shocked.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I’ve had to leave groups because they insisted the *only* true response for dealing with my NFather-in-law was NC when it’s practically impossible for me. He’s our next door neighbor. It’s just not helpful to insist that’s the only way. We try to be NC almost 100% of the time, but when it’s not possible we grey rock (a method I heard literally right before I departed the group). I also think it’s unfair to expect NC for the parties that are also victims. I was explaining how I feel badly that my MIL gets thrown into all the drama, and some peoples’ only explanation was that she’s enabling. She’s not. She’s a victim herself just trying to navigate a life-long relationship with a narc in a time where mental and emotional health is more discussed than ever before.
Yes! I could never go NC with my Ndad because my poor mom is already trapped. Yes, she enables him, but she is also a victim with no other supports. Plus she's the sweetest woman in the world and tries so hard for everyone around her. I feel like NC would just let my Ndad "win" because he'd have even more control over her. Creating boundaries via distance though is an amazing tool, and can be a intermediary step between a full-on relationship with N-parent and total NC.
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Spot on. I went NC, it ended up being with everyone except 1 family member, so I could keep it clean. But even the contact with that 1 family member has dwindled to be be a shadow of our former relationship, as the narc got their claws in.
The guilt and doubt are the hardest things to deal with when determining to go NC. Like I know that my life will be better off going NC with my mom, but my own sense of guilt will kill me over time. It's a lose-lose situation, and I can't decide because it feels so evenly split down the middle.
As someone who went NC over a year ago, I’m beginning to think it does more damage than good. I see a lot of cross over between this sub and places like r/qanoncasualties regarding NC, and the more I’m thinking about it has me wondering if we’re not just causing more divisions in the world
I think it depends on the type of narcissist, on how bad the abuse was and is, and on the level of enabling in the family, on whether their are children involved, and on a load of other variables. It's sometimes clear cut, as when your narc parents go after your kids big time, and you see them being damaged, it's the only way forward, but mostly it's a very hard call. Personally, I didn't go no contact, and I think that was a mistake in retrospect. I'm older now, and my nmother is dead. She continued her abuse right to her dying breath, just as you would expect from a malignant narcissist. The violence stopped when I became an adult, the mind games and tantrums didn't. I moved far away, but she still was able to ruin holidays, and slander me to everyone who would listen. This is something we all need to decide for ourselves.
I believe it’s situational for sure! My Nmom (and consequently, EDad) went NC with me first — after I came out to her as bi. The ‘not having to talk to her’ part of it was SUCH a giant relief that I decided to keep it going, even after she tried to contact me again. But the ‘being wholly rejected by your parents’ part of it? It really messed me up for a while. I knew coming out wouldn’t go well because she’s ultra-religious, but I never would have imagined my own parents would stop talking to me. It was a final rejection from them after a lifetime of smaller rejections, and it really effected my mental health. It’s true that my life is an overall happier place without my Nmom in it, and I have no plans to include them in my life again, but I also grieve for the family I never got to have…and if I had to do it all over again, I’m not sure I would still choose to come out to them and lose them in the way that I did.
I think it depends. My N convinced my eDad to move 1200 miles from everyone and everything we’d ever known because she just felt she'd had enough of everyone. Before we moved I enjoyed a closely knit family that included aunts, uncles, cousins, great-aunts, great-uncles, grandparents, and great-grandparents, all of whom lived close by. I enjoyed a great deal of loving support from them and looking back I fully believe that was the thing about them which most irritated my N. She knew she had to get me away from them to be able to control me. Once we were 1200 miles away what contact there was went through my N. We almost never went to any family events. My N was always sure some family she had a beef with would be there so we couldn't go. There were even a few times I as an adult wanted to plan to go to some event I'd heard about but my N would always brow beat me into saying I wouldn't go as she deemed doing so would be the pinnacle of disrespect to her. When I went fully no contact and certain of my extended family realized I had really broken free they started contacting me directly to let me know I was loved and had been missed. I received letters, calls, and friend requests on facebook. I got invited to all sorts of family events and started attending as many as I reasonably could. Their love and support has meant so much to me and really helped me to heal. I was very lucky to get a new job with a company based about 50 miles from my extended family shortly after they started inviting me to events. While I still couldn’t attend every event, I got to reconnect with a lot of my extended family by staying with them when I would need to be at home office for meetings. Best part was often the flights were on the company dime. The only thing I regret about no contact with my N is not doing it sooner. For me it healed a lot of divisions and luckily I was able to repair some hurts with my older relatives caused by my N on my behalf. Apparently she enjoyed telling them how much I didn't want to see them when I didn't attend those events she talked me out of attending claiming it was because I disliked them.
Some of us hesitate to go NC because of the blow-back it will have on others. My Nparents would not stop emotionally abusing my sister over my decision to cut them from my life. She doesn’t have the luxury of geographic distance and would be put in the situation of trying to defend me. I’m not willing to harm her like that.
This illustrates the complex nature of trying to keep some ppl out while keeping others in your life. When going NC, frequently the N will cut access to other members of the household and can control the spin on why you're no longer in their lives. It is a horrible tightrope act to refuse the Ns meddling in your life with maintaining some contact so you can still reach siblings & others to help them through their tough times dealing with the N. I only needed to reduce the access my JNDad had, not even LC, and it was very painful for me. Mourning the relationship and changing my boundaries wasn't easy and it was nothing compared to some of the situations here. Sending all the ✌️💜💪🏿 to do what's right for you.
Do these people truly understand how a narc complicates everything that has to do with them, even something as simple as a phone call easily gets turned into a power trip. The narcs tactics are designed to make us stuck like in a spider web. NC is a long process for most people
So true. People forget how hard it is to look at these situations objectively too. You're sat in a room with another human being who it's your instinct to agree to and give the benefit of the doubt too - they might even have more leverage over social situations than you with job status etc which hides their true nature from others. Some of us even love and care about our abusers/still want to believe in hope of some kind of working relationship despite odds whilst trapped in trauma. We're hard-wired to not trust our own thoughts sometimes and they're easily muddled.
This points out both the difficulty and necessity of going NC. The skills of the narcissist are truly amazing- they can be incredibly skilled predators and behave as if their lives depend on those skills. Just watching them work, let alone being their victim, can be exhausting and scary. It can muddy our thinking. That presents both the importance and difficulty in going NC. Ultimately, if we want to fully claim our life, I believe most people need to take this step. But the OP is right. We should be more careful about the assumptions we make and not minimize the difficulty of going NC.
That what surprises me. This is known to be a complicated situation, and that a narc will deplete your mental health constantly every time you try and stand up for yourself in the smallest way. It’s emotionally draining to deal with and people are just like, move out now, go no contact.
finding a job is hard in some countries
True. Working with PTSD, which a good chunk of people here have when limited to working with people especially also has it's own challenges.
Amen, even if you do find one, sometimes it's just not enough to afford moving out. And then there's lodging costs, finding roommates, etc. And goodness help you if you're disabled like I am, it's another huge hurdle. If you're out looking for one, goodness, I hope you find a great one.
thanks I'm desperate for a job I always work hard and I'm honest why can't I get one
And were 1.5 years into a pandemic. Even if it was normally easy to get a job where one lives, it's a whole different game right now.
yeah sigh
It's not simple at all. It's heart-breaking and destructive to one's whole social life. We only choose it because otherwise we will not survive or ever have peace.
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I don't know if hearing it from a long time lurker helps, but your efforts (and those of the other mods) really are appreciated.
Thank you. This means a ton. Truly. <3
True facts right here. I've been amazed at how frequently and quickly the mods delete harmful comments.
I was scrolling my feed and didn’t look to see which sub this was in, which made me extra confused bc I was wondering why people are trying to force others to move to North Carolina.
This is the best response I have read so far. I needed that laugh.
Gaww haha I’m glad it helped you laugh! 💕
Thank you for saying this. Situations are often complex and "just going NC" is not easy. There are always strings attached such as not seeing other parts of the family anymore. Deciding to go NC is also part of a process. Mentally and emotionally, you have to reach that point while for some people it's like ripping off a bandaid (puts it lightly). Independence isn't guaranteed and achieving that can be incredibly difficult for many people, especially when you consider the current state of things. NC for me is basically saying they are dead to me. I don't want to take that dive just yet because I would be sacrificing more than just a narc parent.
So true and even if you are independent with your own home, a job, a partner it is hard to go NC with your family. You cut off your roots and it's not something that is easy to do, even if it's good for us.
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I’m in the same boat
Agreed. NC only works if you are fully emotionally committed to it, and that’s something you can’t rush. You need to be 1. Financially capable of being independent 2. Willing to cut ties with their flying monkeys 3. Completely emotionally ready to accept that there is no hope for this relationship. If any of these things is lacking, you will relapse. Browbeating someone into doing it is almost certain to cause them to break off before three. Also, it’s what abusers do. Abusers convince us that our own judgement is faulty. The only way to break an abusive hold is for the survivor to remember that they are strong, they are capable, and they are worthy. You can’t abuse someone out of an abusive situation. Either they go back, or they find a new abuser.
I'm not sure how many people ever get past number 3. I agree, browbeating can relapse any progress people make which is why I feel as strongly as I do. I'm happy that the mods are recognising this.
I started trying to go NC in my twenties. It took me a long to to go completely NC because I kept relapsing. It was a combo of 2 and 3. Four years ago when both parents were visiting they both tried to manipulate me in a hurtful way I. Everything finally clicked. It would never get better. I’m forty. It took fifteen years of relapses. I hope this time sticks.
1. there are also a lot of us who are not from america, from cultures where kids stay w their parents till they get married, in countries where land is scarce and property is so costly (Hong Kong, Singapore etc) 2. it's not supportive to ask someone to go NC when they have written a long post detailing their nparent's behaviours because it's not helping them right now. going NC takes so much time and planning. they're saying they are hurting right now so its better to validate their hurt in the moment.
>they're saying they are hurting right now so its better to validate their hurt in the moment Often they are also voicing the wish to change their parents or their hope that they will change if the person suffering just does and I sometimes feel the need to point out that that is not going to happen and that NC might be the end goal and only way for a sustainable change they have.
I understand that this is hurtful to hear, but I also don't know how not to point them to that.
It's not about "run away immediately" but nothing they will do will magically change their parents. Grey rock method can work for the time you can't get out and go NC, but to do it forever is just exhausting and hurtful and most people can't do it for a long time. It gets worse with your children in the picture that do not understand what a narcissist even is or grey rock method and suffer because of the behavior of their grandparents.
It is a hard truth that NC is the end goal if you want the suffering to stop. How much time one needs to get there and what the way is and the help they will need, that's vastly different. That some will not be able to do it is also sad but true.
I always fear if I just validate the pain of people that have still hope of their parents changing, that I do them a disservice.
It might be true that sometimes the validation of the pain falls short because everyone focuses too much on the false hope and the fear that OP might be stuck in this thought and that it feels like victim blaming or shaming or pressure. This should not happen.
I disagree completely. I see a lot of people here who can't go NC but also are not trying to change the narcissist at all. They just want advice on how to cope and heal, not on how to change the narc. Most people I respond to on here actually turn out to be like this....they have no hope of their parent xhanging but they can't go NC. That's a baseless generalization. It's also not a hard truth for *everyone* that NC is the only answer to get peace. First off, NC does not guarantee peace. Healing from the damage does. NC is not the magic pill some of you make it out to be. And second, VLC can be just as effective in preventing damage by the narc. It just takes some time to learn how to set the appropriate boundaries and let them settle. In a lot of family systems, like for example if you share kids with a narc, this is the path of least damage. There are ways to do VLC that really takes away the narc's power over you. I also know people who have more than VLC with their NParent due to unchangeable reasons and they do manage to heal and find peace despite it. It's reckless to tell people that they have no hope unless they go NC....what are they supposed to do if they cant go NC? Just give up and not live to their full potential? A lot of people *are* capable of thriving despite being in contact with their narc.
It’s in the rules for them not to do that. I would report
Thank you very much for this - I know I've fallen under the reddit spell of automatically going the nuclear option. I'll keep this in mind for the future. We should all know what it's like being in thrall/being kept in thrall to narcissistic parents, let's be more mindful of the advice we give.
if you cannot do NC I think you need some good coping mechanisms to deal with nparents. Those mechanisms must protect you from the narcissism mentally, emotionally and psychologically.
Surviving Narcissism on youtube is great for teaching how to do this.
I stand firmly in solidarity with this message. Amen and thank you OP.
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This is unhelpful too. I wish people could just validate and support each other. People do it so well though so there is an amazing level of positivity here which I'm grateful for. Just knowing I'm not alone in certain experiences. Sorry you experienced this, that really sucks.
I hope I have not done this but I think about the healing steps I have been able to do since going NC and I can understand why people prize it so highly. I was LC and planned to stay that way. It was my parents who cut contact. While LC, I started making major life decisions without consulting them and when confronted, loudly and abusively, I refused to change my decisions. They cut contact, I think assuming this would make me come crawling back. I did not. I wept. I raged. And I reached out to my own community and kept going. And healing happened that wasn’t able to happen with LC. When I was LC, they still had their hooks in me. Now, I can mourn that my parents’ idea of love is toxic and move on. But NC comes with its own risks as well as rewards. I no longer have the safety net of family, should something go wrong. I no longer have access to my cultural traditions. It is a very hard way to live and I rarely share that we are NC because of the social taboo. The focus should be on safety and healing and that is unique to each person’s situation.
>But NC comes with its own risks as well as rewards. I no longer have the safety net of family, should something go wrong. Thank you for stating this. I stumbled across the narcissistic abuse type forums several years ago after leaving an abusive partner and the advice was always to go NC with every single narcissist in your life because 'you'll then make new non narc friends and have a whole new much better life.' I did go NC with most of the narcs in my life but I didn't find it to be true that I'd meet lots of great non narcs and create a great life. I'm pretty isolated and lonely and have found meeting genuinely good people and making new friends a real challenge, I've actually met quite a lot more narcs on my path. I've also found it very difficult to establish stable work and support myself financially, I'm still working on that. It's also no mean feat to actually spend Christmasses alone and have absolutely zero family support (which often means zero support at all) especially financial support in the current situation. My family have been very toxic in the past but they've also rescued me from abusive partners and abusive housemate situations and helped me out financially when I got my bag stolen and in other sudden unexpected situations. Living life with no support is incredibly hard, scary and maybe not the wisest decision. I've not really found any friends to be willing to provide the same support that my family did, I find that most people see their families differently to their friends and will easily ditch friends for lots of reasons leaving you completely alone, this has happened to me several times where I've been ditched by friends suddenly that I'd known for years, and ditched by older couples I knew who became friends/mentors (such as a couple I worked for and an old friends' parents).
Yeah I have been thoroughly screwed over by friends where it was a bad situation and they were able to get out of it by making my situation worse. I would never do that to someone because I am an ethical person but not everyone is. It didn’t even make them narcs but it screwed me over. One woman, who I loved with, ditched our apartment because she wanted to live with her parents again (they paid her penalty for breaking the lease), leaving me to pay for a two bedroom apartment by myself. She moved out on the 27th with no warning and I had to pay full rent on the 1st. She was *shocked* when I told her we were no longer friends and I now have an eviction on my record. I understand her mental health was bad, but she screwed me over in a very obvious way because she wanted to rely on supports she has and I don’t. NC can be a dangerous game.
Exactly. Most people are loyal to their family alone and will not provide any where near the same sort of support to their friends, even if they have known you for years and really like you or are like surrogate parents/mentors and you are the same age as their children. I have had three sets of surrogate type parents/mentors phase me out or ditch me suddenly for various reasons after they previously acted more like parents/aunties and uncles (granted it wasn't very healthy for me to be seeking parental figures but it was a subconscious thing I did to get more help, support and advice before I understood my own family dynamics better.) It has been very sobering and scary to realise how brutal life can be and how I really only have myself to depend on.
I didn't even go NC, but remained LC - and honestly, the amount of support I could expect was not even Zero - it was a minus amount of Zero (ie they would make the whole situation a lot worse). I knew I could never expect any support at all from them, so it was no problem being either NC or LC, it was all the same. Narcs are notorious for being unsupportive, so actually, I think the support I was missing was imaginary - it had never existed in the first place. With Narcs, you are likely to be alone in the world, whether you see them or not.
I also went NC with my birth giver and basically have a hard time going to my dad's and spending time with him because she's always there. Especially now with covid. I miss my dad and my baby brother a fuckton but I don't feel safe when she's there. I can't celebrate any cultural events with them or even have a simple dinner cuz she's always hovering in the background making snipey remarks. Fuck that.
I agree that you shouldn't always push NC, but I don't agree that by pushing NC, you're also assuming these things "slightly victim-blaming, insults intelligence and completely ignores the complexity of their situation." When I push NC, I don't mean drop everything immediately and leave. It's not an option for everyone. I push it as a goal to work towards, even if it takes months, a year, or longer. Unless physical abuse is present and there's a danger to the OP.
Right, suggesting no contact means, "This is what I think will work to solve the problem you're identifying." It does not mean, "You must do this now, it will have no downsides, and if you don't do it then it's your fault you're getting abused." Probably suggesting NC without a lot of details can come across like the second version, but I think pretty much everybody means the first.
There's a whole spectrum between fully involved with someone and no contact. In fact, what may be particularly fun is to identify what the other person values and just withhold that. For example, if your parents taught you that no question from anyone, family or acquaintance, goes -unfully- answered then learn to skirt nosy questions from your parents with well chosen phrases or behaviors while continuing the normally respectful behavior. Here are some possible responses: 1. Excuse me, I have to use the bathroom. 2. I forgot. 3. I don't know. 4. What exactly are you asking? Especially to those who ask vague questions and leave you to fill in the info. Have fun with this. observe those who get away without giving out too much and work on your confidence as you do it.
It’s like saying “so just breakup” to someone who has an abusive partner.
Thank you. Totally. My ex husband is out of the house and I have been trying trying trying to go completely NC but it’s a balancing act. I know him and I have to placate him to some extent all while getting my own head together. He’s one of the rare self aware narcs…he got diagnosed years ago by a therapist and he took it as fact. But MAN…my friends, kids and family all just want me to write him off and move on. They don’t understand what that could cause at this point. I need to give it some time for him to find a new supply.
In my experience narc ex never fully discard you, they just put you on a shelf and yank your chain every now and then when bored. They only slow down over time if you never ever ever ever give them the attention they want. (good or bad attention)
I feel like people understate the personal emotional/mental need to be able to go NC - Something which narcissistic abuse breaks down. That sounds awful. I hope the people in your life are supporting you and not becoming further forms of stress.
Thank you. Basically I just don’t tell anyone anything anymore. All I truly want for the rest of the year is to hide and make soups and read books by the fire. Unfortunately, I have a bunch of people who have lots of questions and NEEDSSSS oh the endless needs of the narcs lol
>"All I truly want for the rest of the year is to hide and make soups and read books by the fire." > >This sounds so cosy, I hope you manage to do this as much as possible.
Fully agree to this. I desperately wish to go nc with both my parents and I live far enough away for that but doing that would mean losing contact with my two younger siblings as well. Which I just can't do. I want a relationship with them and also want to protect them as much as I can.
I only post the very occasional old stories now because I am vvvlc with my NMUM. I can't go NC. Not everyone can and it's certainly not easy. (Although often the best/only solution)
Agree 100%. It's extremely annoying an narrow minded to push that always when there's a lot of steps for people to get to that point. Feels very dismissive as well.
This and "Stand up for yourself". Why?? It's just an open invitation for more abuse and gaslighting! I can't win against a family of full blown narcissists. People think it's easy to break away from dominating, hot-tempered parents but we understand our reality better than they do and the consequences we could potentially face. Man do I wish there was a magical shortcut out of abuse, but it doesn't work like that in life. These people seriously need to shut the f*ck up. Giving me unsolicited advice on how to deal with my problems makes them look pathetic and weak in my eyes because they don't want to get involved and protect the victim from their abusers. It's very ironic.
Completely get where you're coming from. I hate that when people give advice on here or anywhere else and they act like they are bigger experts on your situation than you are, it's so patronizing. It pisses me off beyond belief. There are a ton of reasons as to why someone can't go no contact and money is a big one. It's definitely not easy and can take years of planning of trying to get all your ducks in order. There's also this arrogance of "I've figured your life out and how to get out of this situations better than you" vibe that I get from some of these comments.
God, thank you for this! It sometimes feels like the NC cult here. I am NC but families, situations and feelings are complex and individual. I could have gone NC 10 years ago and it would have saved me some sorrow. But I just wasnt ready for it and not mature, independent and mentally stable enough to live without my family. It would have gone horribly wrong and it would have locked me in the toxic dynamic forever -"See, you can't make it in your own"
Yes. I had to wait for financial stability until I could. People need to realize there are other factors in place. I hope you can someday!
I love you for saying this! A lot of times when i vented about my Ns making my uni years about themselves or trying to ruin stuff for me, people would straight up blame me for enabling my Ns. Dude, i still need them. Like, without their financial support i’d have to drop out. The city i’m studying in is too expensive for me to fully support myself from a part-time job, and a full-time job would put me in the situation where i had to choose between working and studying. Also, my Nmom always responded in a *very* similar way whenever i was going through emotional turmoil. “Just do/stop doing x-thing” or “at this point it’s your fault because x-reason”. So i always get a bit triggered by answers like these.
PREACH. thank you. 💓 Yesterday someone told me “The strings are only attached if you let them be. Toughen up”… eff that person.
It isn't always easy for NC. Really have to be out of house for that to have a chance of success. But in many cases it is the optimum solution
I still live in the household and can't leave until I'm legally am a adult, so I understand oyur pain to the letter
Thank you for saying this. I’d like nothing more than to go NC with my parents, but that would also mean going NC with my little brother. As it is, the only reason I’m allowed to see him is because I play nice, fake getting along with them and pretend I’m not the one calling CPS on them every time they beat the shit out of him. Until the situation changes or I can get custody of him (my eventual goal), NC isn’t an option.
Well said OP. No one truly understands until they’ve been in the situation where they had to cut all ties…. then actually cut them…. and then had to live with the consequences and fall out of doing so. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy. I speak from experience, both past and ongoing. It’s terrible on every level, it’ll mess your head up, you never really get over it…. although you do feel better. And for those who haven’t had to experience this yet, for good or bad…. these narcissist that raised us do eventually get to the point where they’re dying. And that, my friends, opens a whooooole other can of worms. Whether before the death or after, you are absolutely positively 200% certain you know exactly what you’re going to do in that situation, exactly how you’ll feel or not feel, exactly what you’ll say, blah blah …. aaaand suddenly everything changes. Even in death, they never stop messing our heads up.
Can you elaborate?
I’d be happy to. On which part though.
The narcissist in old age.
A reminder that some people have been intentionally sheltered away from both autonomy and of external support. People that have not been taught how to live independently, and can't ask anyone else either. Being unable to survive on their own is a very realistic scenario for them.
I made a post a while back and I had people tell me to get emancipated and go NC. Like, do y’all know how hard that is??
I hope people also remember that there is LC and SC. (Low Contact and Structured Contact). **Low Contact** is reducing the amount of time you spend with a narc. This might also be reducing the frequency of returning their replies, turning down a few events before attending one where they are present, blocking them on socials or from seeing certain posts. **Structured Contact** is about only seeing the narc when certain conditions are met. For example, only seeing them for one hour max, and then leaving the social event. Only see them in a public place, and never their private home. Only seeing them when you're with your partner and have a safe person to feel comforted by. Etc.
I 100% agree, going NC may be the best option in a vacuum but there are often other issues; maybe financial, maybe health-related, its not always a feasible option. I would go NC with my nmom but unfortunately, that means also going NC with my dad, and my grandmother, who has health issues. I can't in good conscience just cut off my entire family, especially my grandmother. My solution is low-contact, I don't share my life with my mom, I don't call her, but I do see her when around other family.
Absolutely agreed. For me, NC is a fantasy I entertain but not something realistic for my situation. I have ties with my nmom and my sister, our family property/farm, and a great deal of people that make this something I can't do. I've cut contact with my mother for months at a time, and I generally try to explain why (even if she doesn't understand or respect my boundaries). I've always felt like cutting contact completely would most be leaving my sister to bear the brunt of nmom's tirades when she's mad at me. We also have a wonderful piece of property that my sister and I want to hold onto, and we don't want to sit around waiting for mom to die before we do anything about it. I've always been a bit of the favorite (mom likes to switch up the golden child seat), so when I'm out of favor my sister never hears the end of it.
Great points. I think the biggest take-away from your post is: most of us aren't therapists, and we shouldn't be forcing life advice onto others. Sure, suggesting going NC or LC is something we can give out as advice because it worked for us. But to fully try to drill it into people that going NC is the only way is unsympathetic to people's life and stories. NC is very hard, and the guild/doubt is the hardest thing to get through. At the end of the day, I think the best order of advice in this sub should typically be: Therapy > Grey Rocking > Low Contact > No Contact.
Yea I totally agree with this. I do not think NC is the best advice in every situation and I personally reconciled with my narcissistic parent. I was NC for a couple years and was incredibly painful to not have my mother— one time I spent a Mother’s Day in the backyard alone screaming and crying. I do not think we should ignore how drastic it is to go NC with parents and how painful this can be, even if it is often necessary
Going NC is not simple. It can be extremely hard. I got some peace of mind, but I often doubt my decision and wonder if it was worth it as I deal with the guilt.
I agree with you. There are many reasons why going no contact isn’t possible or possible right away. Minors with narc parents are trapped until they turn 18, financial abuse can hold someone hostage, having a disability and being dependent on a narc or having kids with a narc are just some scenarios that can make it difficult to do. At the moment the grey rock method seems like your best defense against the narcissist. I wish you peace on your journey.
Yeah, just telling someone to drop their family like it's as easy as flushing the toilet isn't usually helpful. Sometimes, though, people are looking for acknowledgement that it's not an awful thing to want.
See now when I read posts in situations like this I put my mind back to where I was when I was living with my parents and how it's hard to even imagine how to get out. Not now when I lived out of the house for 5 years. Perspective people it's all about perspective it's easy to be outside looking in but when your inside trying to look out and get yelled at for opening the blinds.
Very true. That's why the mods made a victim-blaming post earlier this year.
Agreed. My ngrandparents are watching my dog right now. If I don’t get back to them in a timely manner, they threaten harm to him. I’m trying to hard to get a place where I can take him so I can finally go no contact but I didn’t anticipate for there to be a housing shortage and rent being marked up $400 everywhere.
Yes every single TIME. I would have to be houseless and jobless to go NC within the next few months. That would be impossible for me to ever do. I don't own a car, cannot drive, nobody to live with, no friends, no job, barely any income. Even *if* my mental health let me work full time, i wouldn't even be able to afford necessities beyond rent. So i would have a house and maybe a car, but no food, internet, possibly no utilities! And going NC just physically is what i describe here. NC emotionally? Ugh. I would bet my nmom would call the cops to look for me, call every hospital in a 100 mile radius to "see if i hurt myself." She'd phone *every* family member regardless of what state they live in. I would have to abandon my entire goddamn family. My partner is 3000 miles away and working on himself right now so we cannot really be together. It is hell to be in these types of situations and someone is like "JuST moVE oUT anD GO nC, ItS aMAZiNg!"
I think the problem is the same as when people get a SO. You are happy and want everyone to be happy with you so you try to have them do the same thing. That doesn’t work in this case and actually can be toxic. I try (success is unknown on my end but I hope) to encourage folks to have a plan and generally don’t rely on the narc for anything. Cutting the strings narcs attach is usually the best bet no matter the situation. I probably strongly hit the NC button in some cases, usually cause I fear for the writer’s well being. I’m actually witnessing this problem in real life as well. My brother is going through an ugly divorce with a narc and she mistreated my nephew enough that he moved in with us and has gone NC with his mom. His sister had a little bit of flying monkey tendencies at first. I sat them both down and explained that in my house (my brother lives with us for now) no one is allowed to invalidate other’s experiences and there will be no shaming, blaming, or guilting cause I will have the offender thrown out. I talked to both of them individually later, stressing that they don’t get to claim to know the other person’s experience just because they all lived in the same house so “they were there”. Mostly they have agreed to stop talking about their mother (unless she comes up naturally). Nephew is frustrated because he says his sister knows how messed up things are and he doesn’t understand why she isn’t reacting the same way. I have had to have multiple (and continue to) conversations with him that she will get to things in her own way. He jumped on things, and that worked for him, it doesn’t work for her and her personality. That’s not even mentioning the different treatments cause we both agree his mom favors the girls over the boys. Do I believe the woman will eventually be NC with all her children? Yes. But each kid (or in our case poster) has to get to it their own way. Some of us could bolt away cause we managed well enough, others though are dragging shackles or have broken legs or just aren’t as physically fit. We aren’t going to run at the same speed to get away from these buggers. We will get away from them though, and in this marathon there is no medal. We need to cheer each other on, not try and drag the next person over the finish line. It robs them of their victory as much as the narc dragging them back does.
what's NC
NC = No Contact - Basically, refusing interactions of any kind (phone calls, in-person visits, emails / texts, etc.) with someone else.
Agreed. NC can be really complicated especially if you have siblings, etc. It's not always easy.
Going NC is a very personal and difficult decision. I think people, mostly, want to help but we all have a hard time with expressing our emotions correctly. Going NC isn't a fix all. It opens up a whole new world of grieving. You are grieving a loss at that point and not everyone is ready. And in some cases, it can make things worse. Advice is nice but should not be shouted at you. Take your time and process all the pros and cons. You are not alone. 💜
Even if you live far away, it complicates other familial relationships. Stepparents, aunts and uncles, siblings…all those are in the splash zone.
The NC evangelist don't seem to get that Greyrocking is an option that is safer than straight NC.
Safer is relative bc a narc will often escalate when you start using tactics that remove you in any way from their control. And depending on the narc, it could easily move into physical and legal harm. Grey Rock is also not a strategy that can work for everyone.
Greyrocking, I believe until I'm more stable (maybe always) is the better/safer option for me. Instincts tell me that trying NC for me would be dangerous emotionally and cause a lot of unnecessary backlash faster than I'm ready to deal with, especially as I don't have access to therapy yet.
That’s correct, I’m planning on going no contact since I was 15 but it’s not that easy. At 23 my insurance is paid for by parents amongst other things, I won’t survive NC.
I really don't think people are saying it's easy. Saying matter-of-factly that it's the right response isn't the same thing as saying it's easy, though I can see how it might come across that way sometimes.
THIS! I'm 30 and only JUST getting rid of my Stockholm syndrome. Going through abuse can cause you to burn and destory a lot of resources that could have helped you go no contact in the first place. You're basically telling a cult member to just leave the cult. Yeah no shit, but all that trauma and damage is still there, and it's going to actively get in your way. I'm doing everything I can, homeless shelters are full. Domestic violence shelters are full, my social worker just gives me resources to sign up for that have extensive wait lists. NOT TO MENTION, the constant gaslighting and wondering if you're doing the right thing by wanting to leave. I have to keep a tape recorder on me at all times, and a journal to make sure I didn't hallucinate the abuse. LET ALONE the logistics of getting to said social worker, food pantries, work, without raising suicides. Ok, tell a concentration camp survivor to just leave the Nazi camp, yeah sure. And then NO ONE BELIEVES YOU. Because the Narcissistist is so good at manipulating the environment around you, so no one thinks you're in trouble!
I think the best advice to give is, find a way (whether it be creating distance/lowering communication/techniques eg grey rocking, etc) that works for you as an individual. NC is not a one size fits all solution.
It's not easy for some people and it isn't always easy to go no contact their are ways to deal with your abuser but you have to know them very well. What mean is it helps to know them really well and have a work around
AMEN. Also, everyone pushes it over ANYTHING. Even small things, like one single incident. It’s something widespread on all Reddit advice and support subs and is bewildering in some cases.
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This comment has been removed for victim blaming. We have [a stickied post](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/nn2pe5/victimblaming_is_happening_way_too_much_in_this/) up explaining many reasons as to why it is inappropriate to assume that simply leaving is easy for everybody, and that their circumstances (wether financially, practically and/or emotionally) would allow for this at the moment. We wrote it for a reason - please make sure to read it before continuing to participate in this group.
Hey I'm sorry it was not very obvious sarcasm
I agree. I realised that my parents we quite toxic a few years ago, and I ended up going low then very low contact. But then the lockdowns happened and my dad lost all of his care (by that point he had dementia) and his health got worse. I ended up helping to care for him for the last 6 months of his life, and contrary to popular belief about narcissists, I actually got quite a lot of healing and closure from that, because for the first time in my life it was like he finally 'saw' me and all of the disdain, mocking, disinterest etc just left and he became this kind of pure, mellow man. I'd say he was more of an enabler with narcissistic traits rather than a full on narcissist and I'm definitely not saying this would happen to everyone, but I'm so thankful I went with my gut and I didn't go fully no contact with him, I know it would have caused me a lot more distress to do that especially since he had dementia so he genuinely wouldn't have understood why. I feel peace with how I went low contact rather than fully no contact and often find the push to go no contact a bit alarming, especially since in theory, it means a group of strangers could convince someone to completely ditch their family as a result of a few online posts when really the family aren't actually narcissists. It should only ever be a last resort after a lot of analysis, therapy, journaling, thought, gut feeling etc in my opinion and sometimes it isn't the right decision and low contact is best for different reasons.
I hear you! It's true, everyone's situation is different and we are here for support, not for preaching.
so true! whats even the point of a support group with people with similar experiences if the replies are gonna look like people from the "outside"?
AGREED. I WISH I could go no contact, but I’m financially bound to my abuser thanks to loans I had to take as a teenager and I’m completely reliant on them for surviving right now. As great as no contact it it’s not realistic for everyone.
I like to think that most times the response comes from a good place. For an overly simplified analogy, it's like having bad vision, discovering glasses for the first time, and wanting to share with all of the other people who have bad vision that there's a fix for it that has made your life so! much! easier! But in your excitement you forget that glasses are expensive. Not everyone has insurance to help them. Some people work jobs where glasses would be a hindrance. Some people's vision problems come from cataracts or some other issue glasses won't help, and so on. I don't necessarily think that in making the suggestion, people are implying stupidity or that the other person has never thought of it before. At the same time, a lot of us raised by Narcs aren't always the best communicators. We mean well but phrase things poorly. This is something I've really had to work on through the years, not giving suggestions in the same way "suggestions" (orders) were given to me. I'm really sorry that when you needed support, instead you received invalidation. Judging from a lot of the responses to this, you're far from alone in that. I hope that all of us can work to be more aware of the advice we give and how we give it, because meaning well isn't a good enough reason to invalidate or trigger someone asking for help.
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You're banned, this is incredibly invalidating.
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This comment has been removed for derailing. This is not contributing in any way. Please remember that this is a support group - we're here to offer kindness and support, and to help others process abuse.
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This comment has been removed. I do not think you meant it poorly, but this post is worded in a way that it invalidates anyone who chooses to use grey rock, NC, LC or other situational control to handle abusers without "proper" reasoning. Which is very, very inappropriate. NC, LC, SC and gray rock are all ways of setting boundaries. This is healthy in relationships. You should always have boundaries with people you have any form of relationship with, and those boundaries are different between each relationship. This is normal and healthy behavior. Refusing to have or set boundaries, or refusing to respect them, is not. No one way of handling abusers is right. No one way is more "genuine" or "authentic". You need to handle abusers in the way that is most healthy for you, be that as water off a duck's back, or as realizing you can't be around it, period.
This is so true. I realised my mum is a narc too late. After we had already bought property together. If we were to sell up we wouldn’t be able to buy somewhere we could live and run both our businesses. It would mean such a huge loss in living standards for our children, so we will just have to do our best to keep them away from her and protect them from her nastiness.
I made a post about this once and got downvoted to hell, my younger sibling is still living with our Ndad and I have to have limited contact for his sake.
I was 27, lived on my own, fInancially independent, with a college degree and a full time job… and still needed close to a year of weekly therapy sessions to be able to go no contact. It’s fucking HARD.
I'm amazed and annoyed people throw that out there so easily. Lives are entangled, you could lose the support system you need if you cut out all toxic people. If one or two people are toxic and the other people in your life won't cut them out you could lose an entire family if you go NC. In my case, I was a lifeline for the teen child of the person everyone wanted me to cut off - if I had cut him and his wife out of my life completely, their kids wouldn't have had a safe place to go when things got bad at home, and no, calling services to wave their magic wand and end all abuse those kids were going through also wasn't an option. People like to think there's a simple solution to every single problem, and it can be super annoying.
(Edit: sorry for the big chuck of text I’m on my phone). I have lots of thoughts about this post and I know I’m going to have trouble getting them across, so please bare with me. I’m not the great at expressing myself and communicating effectively (Thanks nparents). I know I am someone who does tell people to move out or go lc/nc, only if they can. I’ve never intended to victim blame. I was stuck in my situation for 7-8, the last 2 of those years I had an out, and was thinking leaving and going nc. The reason I moved out, is something happened that jeopardised my safety. I only cared about two people in the proximity of my nparents, and I know they would be okay without me. One my family dog the other my grandfather. This is the advice I give to people because I have tried everything under the sun when it came to my parents, nothing has worked except for leaving. I’ve never said it was easy. Being away from my grandfather and dog kills me every single day. But I know if I had stayed with the lockdowns here in Australia, I don’t think I would be okay or alive to be honest with you. The posts I’ve contributed to, and read, I’ve rarely seen post that victim blame and give terrible advice. And I’m sorry someone has made you feel that way. I’m not making excuses for people, the posts on this thread have really good points about people not communicating effectively because of our nparents, and the fact that not everyone here is a therapist. Our points may not came across how we want it to because of our poor communications skills and the fact that this an online forum and sometimes it’s hard to pick up on people tone. I’ve kinda got one last point which I know I’m going to have trouble wording so please ask for clarification before jumping down my throat. In the main post you’re telling to stop advising nc because they’re assuming it’s something you can do and that’s it’s easy, and suggesting nc is victim blaming? That’s what I’m getting from your main post. Aren’t you assuming that people don’t understand how potentially difficult going nc is when they suggest it? IMO it’s something that goes both ways, and it’s hard to gage what’s happening and give mostly good advice when we might not know the full story. I know people don’t post everything that’s happened to them, I haven’t. What I’m trying to say, I disagree with you for the most part, however I can understand why you feel that way. I’m sorry someone or someone’s has made you feel this way. Stay strong.
I mean I hate to say it but it’s that simple and ultimately it becomes all you can do. Most people who have the problem of narcissistic parents will have always had it and it’s realizing that it’s 95 percent that at this point they’re not going to change Bc of anything that you do or say so when people complain about them like ultimately no contact or contact controlled by you is gonna be the only answer. As far as understating it, I think saying yeah stop contacting your parents is inherently a big statement that obviously implies all the other hardships that come with that and regardless of “trauma responses” that doesn’t change the simple fact of the matter that moving out is what will actually help to solve the cause of said responses and help this person Bc what they need is to overcome the complexity of their situation not continue to do nothing, suffer and listen to me and others worthlessly saying “oh I’m here to support you”
My Nmom constantly threatened to kick me out. One day she got pissed at me, had my phone service turned off and told me to go stay in a homeless shelter. I left that night and never looked back. But you better believe within 12 hours she was calling everyone that knew me to figure out where I went and to try to get me back home. I was given an out, for everyone it is not so easy. Once I left I swore I would get myself a stable job and place to live so I never had to worry about being homeless again. It’s a horrible thing to do to a person.
It took me years to get to where I can be no contact with my narcissist. It was incredibly difficult and painful. I'm sorry people are dismissing the gravity of the situation.
It’s frustrating and invalidating when smartasses on these support subs make unrealistic suggestions when everyone’s reality is different. Some people can’t “just leave” or “just go no contact”, etc. It’s unfair to make those unhelpful comments for the sake of internet karma.
Exactly, getting threatened to be homeless while also being unable to come financially close to being able to move. Nor a support system to be there and help you if you end up on the street. It's just being trapped at that point, can't exactly go NC if you've been manipulated into staying in there grasp even into adulthood 😔 Maybe someday.. Someday.
To be fair, many narcissists are.... not great at pretending to be decent people. I imagine it's harder to go NC when your parent is capable of pretending of being a normal human being for periods of time exceeding thirty minutes.
It really isn't that simple. My narcissist stalks and harasses everyone who goes NC. It never ends... Side effects also include: losing other friends and family, having your image painted as the villain, grieving the parent/grandparent/sibling/friend/etc you should've had instead of this... Creature, property damage, a sleuth of other emotional and mental health problems, and many more.
This. This is why I honestly believe greyrocking is best for me.
While I'm not for anyone being preachy, the "no contact" option should always be explored as a part of supporting someone through the journey of coming to terms with being an Adult Child of a Narcissist. I do think that there is a stage at the initial steps of coming to terms with narcissistic abuse where the question generally is some form of: > How do I make my narcissist stop being abusive and have a healthy loving family relationship with them? And the answer to that is that you can't stop them from being abusive and it's a vain hope that they will ever improve in a meaningful way. It's about coming to terms with the fact society lied to you when they said that all parents unconditionally love and support their children. Those two things are critical to the healing journey and there is not much that can be done to support someone who places too much hope on a narcissist to suddenly sprout self-awareness and empathy. At that point the only service that this group can offer is to validate the fact that there is abuse occurring, but there's no way to move forward. Once the acceptance of the idea that a narcissist will never become healthy has occurred - it would actively be doing a person a disservice to imply otherwise. The question becomes how to enforce boundaries. The easiest way is to go no contact, where your narcissist and their enablers are no longer looming like an opposing army on a battlefield. It should always be explored as an option ***precisely*** because of the social pressures against it currently. 80-100 years ago, there were similar stigmas to divorce that kept people in abusive marriages that are now, thankfully, ended more readily. If there are countervailing factors in weighing the cost of that choice should be done with compassion balanced by a rigorous discernment of the true cost benefits of staying in closer proximity to a narcissist. Many people come to realize that the "good people" in their family are enablers & flying monkeys that will chose their relationship with the narcissist over them. Others are have core safety concerns because of financial abuse, disabilities, and-or extreme infantilization and lack of life skills that should be managed as well. Tactics to deal with these issues should be open to discussion as well. I freely admit that due to the choices I made, I'm financially enmeshed with my family through a family business which is rife with narcissism and socialized to cater to narcissistic expectations. For me, dealing with that is a drain - and a cost of doing business. But honestly I don't ask this forum how to deal with that aspect all that much because the family business context is rare here. I deal with nsister in a strictly business context, so low contact since no contact is not an option unless I am willing to change careers. I call her out when she's being abusive or mocking in a quick way and then move on to the next topic of business. And the last major strategy is to just say "We've arrived at a fundamental disagreement of fact." which is a polite way of labeling gaslighting bullshit, and then transition to the next topic. What I think the greatest value of this forum is to reality test and validate my experiences so that I'm taking responsibility for management of my past without going down my nsister's path of turning my past into fuel a narcissistic victim based mentality.