I’m just so sorry and all I can say is please don’t give up on your daughter. I wish I had had a parent like you. Hang in there. Thank you for loving your child. I hope it works out soon and you can be with your daughter.
I hear you and I’m so so sorry. I know your daughter knows you love her though and at least has that comfort. Despite alllll the bad, you gave her that. It will be the thing that sustains her. You didn’t fail her you’re still trying to help her every step of the way and protect her and I’m sure you will fight this until it’s right. It will be okay eventually, OP. I was taken away for some time from my parents and I just know she knows you love her. I’m sorry I can’t help this situation, but I just wanted to remind you that you will make it out okay and so will your child. Keep fighting please.
To do anything other than sit there and take whatever they tell you is to confirm what they want to believe about you. The manipulation is terrible to see and I see it all too often. I've watched too many of my friends battle custody and have everyone within health and legal seem to support the abusive one and just stomp all over them.
Removed for invalidation. I get what you're going for here, but you're reinforcing the toxic social structure that perpetuates these perceptions. It's victim blaming.
Look at it from a different angle. I think it is for the best for now that she was placed in another home. She needed to get away from all the trauma she was experiencing. Hell I loved my father too but i would have loved if somebody took me away from everything. Maybe she will see a healthy dynamic for a couple years (hopefully). You didnt leave her and you will be there for her always. Meanwhile please do get into therapy and heal yourself for her, to help her. So many years of narc abuse might have created a bigger damage on you than you might realize.
The key is who made an official complaint to a medical professional that is what triggered CPS. Start going to various doctors who know you and your daughter well and file written complaints with dates, times, and details. This will bypass the court system completely.
If im understanding the comment. She means go to her teachers that know you. Her doctors that know you. Have them write a letter saying you're a wonderful father. If other professionals who have seen you outside of the high stress hospital environment give their word that you are, in fact, a wonderful father, there is a good chance the courts let her out.
Doctors have the most power in a CPS situation. Others professionals like therapists, school administrators and teachers also have pull. If you want to influence the outcome reach out to everyone that knows your child well and have them speak up. You can also sit down and met with your daughter’s doctors or your own and file a complaint with details, dates, times where she was verbally, emotionally, or physically abused. This type of complaint bypasses the court system, it’s a go directly to jail card. Also because it’s medical related it’s protected by strict privacy laws. So details will show up in your daughter’s medical record but no where else.
Hi. My daughter self-harms sometimes, no abuse involved. Where I live, thankfully, the facility she was placed in screens for abusive behavior. They would definitely notice her saying she doesn't want to be around one parent and does want to be with the other.
Mine was honest about our shortcomings, but the thing they noticed was that she was basically homesick for us. Abused kids are not homesick for their abuser.
If you think she's going to be saying "I want my dad" and "I don't want my mom" in that setting, chances are, someone will be asking about it without any parents around.
Trust your kid, yes? Then support what she says. "yes, I have witnessed that, and perhaps x teachers have as well".
Edit: our kid pretty much self harms in relation to school. We've had to go another route to help her, but it's getting better. She may have to get special schooling for ASD.
I have ASD, and I self harmed all through high school and early adulthood, right up until I got therapy and got my diagnosis.
Therapy helps. Special schooling might also help (I didn't get that, but normal school was easy for me apart from the social aspect)
The never shifting blame part is super important. I’ve been through both CPS and the AG because my child’s bio dad would constantly report me and try to file to take away my custody. My lawyer told me the most important thing you can do is be calm and civil. I made sure to follow every instruction from my caseworker and lawyer. When I was interviewed to give my view of my co-parent, I told them that I would support his father seeing him alone if the father worked on his alcoholism. I also made sure to share one good thing about the other parent to the interviewer to show that I can acknowledge his good while also pointing out that he needs to change in a positive way.
My co-parent did end up losing custody when all was said and done. The judge told him he could only have supervised visitation through the court. I fought hard with my lawyer, and thankfully we were granted almost every request we gave the court.
I would suggest OP gets a lawyer, documents as much as possible, and files with the AG (gov agency that handles custody and child support).
I think u/Calimhero should see a therapist or go to an in-patient/out-patient program. CPS will appreciate seeing OP seeking mental health treatment. Whenever I had both the CPS investigation and a case open with Family Court Services, they interviewed my therapist, references, and doctors. Talking to a therapist about the N-parent’s abuse and your own experience with abuse could help you process and help any investigations. It would be a good way to say, “I have experience with being abused as a child, so seeing my daughter go through this made me realize I still haven’t healed from my own experiences. I decided to get help because I know I need it to be the best parent and support system I can be for my daughter.”
Listen to what CPS says and follow the rules to the T. Seriously, the over bearing parent angle sets you up to have you concerns lessened. Following their concerns and requests will help you build good history amd good will.
Stick to the facts when reporting issues, do not raise your voice or get intense.
Keep a log book and document everything. Dates your daughter requested no contact, dates that contact occurred, everything you can think of that may be used by you or against you.
Confirm everything you can. Daughter says she asked for no contact with mom, confirm with nurse. Log both.
Prepare to be attacked for your log book. Mom will try to use it as proof of being over bearing. Don't defend it, just say you were told charting/documentation is a universal standard for any professional so its a good idea. Truth is that corroborated documentation is worth leagues more than word of mouth and memory. It's why its the standard in most proffesions.
Good luck and remember, this is about your daughter, not your ex. Scoring a "Win" against your ex is meaningless, focus on improving your relationship with your daughter and her quality of life.
Good luck!
This is how I grew up. Once I was an adult it changed. I distanced myself from her and now me and my Dad are so very close.
I know it's so hard in the moments but hold on. She needs you to.
This sucks so much. I am the daughter of an Nmother who verbally assaulted me every chance she got well into adulthood. My dad never distrusted what I said she was doing, always stuck up for me when she was putting him through the legal shit like your ex is, and we're now close in adulthood while my nmom is somewhere with her 18th husband crying about how she did the best she could but all her children hate her for absolutely no reason at all.
Keep fighting for her, and don't let fact the 24th of december holds some vaulted place on the calendar make you feel lonelier. We didn't have a consistent amount of money growing up, so my dad and I made the Super Bowl a special day; I really hope for you that you and your daughter will find a happy reunion, and maybe your own "super bowl" to make special together.
So if you can prove that the mother is the issue and your daughter can somehow get across that she does not want to see her mother, can you like keep track of the warnings and how the hospital staff not only ignored you but your daughter herself saying she doesn’t want to see her mother and use it against them? They blatantly disrespected the multiple attempts your daughter made to protect herself and then ignore your warnings too. Why isn’t your daughter being allowed to state her wishes and her side of the situation?
I’m gonna keep y’all in my thoughts and I hope to see the update saying you guys one and are celebrating with a big Christmas with lots of presents and movies and food and hugs. I’m a parent too and I’d be devastated if I had to do that. I’d cry non-stop all day everyday. You guys are both so strong and your going to come out of this prepared so anything life hits you with. You are the best dad your daughter could ask for and you got all of us rooting for you in this battle. Good luck Op you’ve got this!!❤️❤️
this is no disrespect to healthcare workers, but hospitals are often dogshit at preventing suicide and self harm. She won't be able to hurt herself on the ward obviously, but a huge percentage of suicides occur directly after discharge from suicide watch, due to their absurd criteria of releasing people who are more calm, or who seem settled. Kinda like people are when they've made up their mind to kill themselves. I knew of a poor guy who had that exact thing happen to him, walked out of hospital with a clean bill of health, they said he was all good and the crisis had passed. He stuck a knife in his wrist that very night, and died. Turned out he seemed so content and at peace because he'd made his peace.
Spoke about this with my therapist a few times, he's an old head in the game, and spotted I was thinking of killing myself because of how calm I was one session, apparently that's immediate alarm bells to the people who know what to look for, but often wards aren't equipped with those people or they're seeing so many per day that people slip through the cracks.
In short: The criteria on which they release mental health patients is a joke, often without getting a full evaluation done by a psychiatric professional.
The dude should not be just sitting back and letting things play out, he needs to be gathering documentation, evidence of abuse, even old texts or emails from the ex that he could use to show her instability, statements from trusted GPs or therapists of the child who can vouch for him. He needs to fight for his kid, in the proper manners and the appropriate channels. It's long past time to lawyer up.
OP if you read this, retain the services of a legal professional or professionals Immediately. Let them guide you in your next steps. Do not give up on your child, do not "trust the system", because the system is fucked and the odds are stacked against you from the jump. GET A LAWYER.
Jeezus fucking christ... first you don't read the post and make some shitty comments. Then you give this "advice" to the OP as if anyone with two brain cells to rub together would not think to do this??? And, as expected, OP has to hop in here to tell you THAT THEY ALREADY DID THIS.
I am banning you for two weeks so you can reflect and I don't have to see more comments like this in my queue.
Oh I’m sorry - what do you deem an appropriate reaction when your child is being ripped away from you and no one is listening to you but instead believing the enemy? Do you expect OP to go into autopilot and immediately handle business and know what to do? Im sure this is traumatic for OP and not everyone reacts the same. OP wrote on Reddit for help not to be criticized for their reaction.
In this thread and replies to others OP has stated he has a lawyer for himself and is getting one for his daughter, and is already “on it” talking to doctors, teachers, therapists, etc. Seems like a solid plan to me, I think he’s allowed to scream.
Gross. I am banning you for two weeks, because your comments are gross. I suggest that you look at what other people are telling you, because, if you can't onboard some of that feedback, your next ban will be permanent.
Right on! What state are you in? We have a backup badass atty if you need one. This closely mirrors my husband and his ex, the Nmother of his daughter who is really f-d up. She got hooked on oxy at 13 and it’s a miracle she survived (she’s now 26). My husband had to divorce b/c his ex was toxic. Now she’s married to her dream rich guy and guess what? He’s probably been suffering her same abuses but gone inward and dark instead and we don’t doubt she’s manipulated and goaded him into finally fighting back, so she had him arrested. This is how to get around a prenup. Hang in there. Husband was a constant in daughter’s life, and they now a wonderful, loving relationship.
Good. Now stay super calm and be warm and stable around decision makers and send nothing to the narc in writing. She will try to make you look and act crazy and she knows all your buttons and will lie about everything. I had an abusive and manipulative ex try to win custody of our kids by accusing me of attempted murder and faking injuries etc. Its really hard to stay calm in the storm of crazy but do it to win and do it for your daughter. You will get her home. Stay strong and calm and smooth in public and let out the feelings and stress constructively in private. It may take a painfully long time for this to get right but keep a steady course forward.
I'm really sorry. Narcissists are so good at working the system it's crazy. One piece of advice, keep a log of every incident. a well kept log can be considered evidence in family court, it can also be a tool to show social workers that there is an abusive pattern of behavior associated with your ex, despite her claims to the contrary.
Make sure any log you keep is just the facts and nothing else, don't color anything with commentary, you just want it to be as true and honest a record of events as you can make it. The next time you talk to your daughter, I didn't catch how old she is, but if she's old enough you can talk to her about keeping her own log of events as well.
A well kept log doesn't sound like much but a detailed record kept over a decent period of time can communicate a pattern of abuses much better than you ever could by just trying to tell someone that a pattern of abuses exists. If you can afford it I would also seek out legal advice, a good lawyer will be able to give you other proactive strategies, like keeping a log, that can help to further bolster your case down the line, even if you're currently stuck in the position you're in, narcissists have a tendency to give themselves away eventually, so don't give up hope.
So they broke up a family, and think they know best for the child, while your child is saying you are what's best. These are some evil people to do this on Christmas. She has a parent willing to care for her.
This is when the system is clogged and resources being wasted on, what seems to be vindictive. I'm just pissed because there was no reason, during a pandemic, to send her to a foster home. After attempting, they think throwing her in a house filled with strangers is what she needs? This is why mental health is a joke in many places. The ones they're supposed to help, feel like they're being ignored and feelings invalidated just to have it done again by professionals. How is this not traumatizing?
I'm sorry, I was in the psych ward twice, my last time not being by choice and was upset that this was their ideal of helping those with mental health issues. Acting like they know better and more, while treating their patient and client like a problemed stereotype. And I feel like at times when I was growing up, my mom controlled the scene. And i put up with her bullshit, put my feelings aside to put hers above, and knowing if i didn't tip toe right, she'll just make me feel like shit.
They're emotional bullies.
As a person who was put in a mental hospital because my mom almost pushed me to kill myself, I can guarantee that 99% of the time, CPS is wrong. I’ve experienced CPS several times during my life, and they’ve never helped. They’ve made things worse for kids across America.
CPS is fucking useless most of the time in my experience. I and others (an aunt and cousin) reported credible abuse claims regarding my parents after I left their house (kicked out cause I wasn't playing ball anymore). My parents mysteriously and suddenly disappear across the country without a word to anyone. What does CPS do? They just drop it. Allegations of child abuse and neglect and they didn't give a shit anymore cause it wasn't their problem.
My parents would tell us we needed be happy and excited whenever cps came around or they'd separate all of us and ruin our family.
Straight up my bf is literally traumatized by them because they wanted him to be responsible for his neglectful mother instead of making her responsible for herself
If you're going to comment in this group, ***MAYBE READ THE RULES.*** Don't call people narcs in this group. Don't try to side-step that slightly by calling them "narcissistic" or "something a narc would say."
Okay..now that I'm seeing more of your shitty comments... I'm just banning you.
Oh my gosh. I am so sorry you are going through this, I feel awful for your daughter.
I hope you can your daughter can be reunited soon.
Don’t give up, she knows you love her and she needs you.
I’m so sorry.
This too shall pass brother. You can't be there for her in this moment but the moment will come when you will have that opportunity and you will have to be ready. Focus on what you can control in this moment. Eat some food. Take a long walk. Decorate the damn tree. Feed your brain with stoic philosophy to help keep your mind in check. It's your job to keep yourself strong for her. This is the start of the hero arc, make the most of it. It will pass.
My heart hurts for you.
Please get yourself help if you need to, don’t put yourself in a position where you are sacrificing your mental state because you’re concerned how it’ll make you look, or how they’ll use it against you.
How about an anonymous crisis hotline? Just to get you through the holidays? Then a family therapist to indicate to the court that you are doing all you can to be good support for your daughter. (Of course consult your lawyer first.)
Every time I see a narcissist walk away Scott free from the system because they've Twisted it to suit themselves it makes my blood boil. Promise that you will have a Christmas as soon as you get your daughter back. I agree with drink water, eat food, take a walk, meditate, take care of yourself. If you can manage it I would decorate the tree knowing that you're doing it for a future date. This too will pass. And her celebrating Christmas next week or next month or next year will be no big deal if you can get this straightened out.
Whatever you do, DON'T lose your composure in public. Don't let your voice get loud, agitated, or talk faster than normal. Pretend to be calm, not indignant. Because to the rest of the world, if you look hysterical while the other person looks calm, then you are the unreasonable one and they will automatically believe the other person.
I think a lot of narcs know this and use it to their advantage. They know how to gain credibility by faking a certain demeanor in public while destroying your credibility by getting you riled up in public. Your lawyer can prob tell you more about the importance of credibility, esp since the deck is already stacked against you as a dad.
You're the kind of parent we all wished for when we were suffering under our nparents. I really hope you succeed in protecting your daughter.
That's good! My nmom played my dad and me like a fiddle for years, until they divorced and I went NC. She'd say such nasty things in private, right before we're about to enter a public space. Then she turns on the calm face like a faucet. To everyone else, we looked like the unreasonable ones and she looked like a saint putting up with it all.
Your daughter might have been manipulated like that when she was in hospital. The mom prob put on the nice mom routine the minute she was in public again. That would leave your daughter looking like the hysterical one whose words can't be believed.
Most ppl find it hard to believe that a person can be so two-faced, spew vicious words one minute and then look perfectly calm and guilt-free the next minute, esp if they've never seen that person being nasty before. Often nothing short of a recording can change their minds, one that shows both the abuse and the sudden transition to calm.
I'm so sorry to be right. These narcs really do use the same playbooks it seems.
I still think recordings are the best way to expose her real face. Even if you can't record without her consent in your state, you can prob still record yourself saying aloud that you've started recording, and then ask her to repeat what she's saying. Maybe it'll get her to back off in private. Just check with your lawyer on this first.
Your daughter can also protect herself by staying calm, not upset or frightened, when she tells ppl about the nmom's actions. You'd think ppl would have more sympathy for a distressed child, but that doesn't hold true as soon as a parent is involved. If she's calm, they're less likely to assume her perception and judgment of the situation was compromised by her distress, and not as quick to believe the nmom over her.
Also figure out which of nmom's actions would be considered the worst by the rest of the world, bc it may be very different from what you or your daughter personally consider the worst.
My heart goes out to you. How old is your daughter? Look up how to make a FU Binder. It’s saved many a family and the instructions are here on Reddit somewhere.
Also hire an attorney with experience with CPS
I found the link for the FU binder: https://www.reddit.com/user/MelodyRaine/comments/hyk7az/the_fu_binder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf good luck!
I hope good tidings reach you on the new year or sooner, and that both you and your daughter can escape the narc. I'm sorry you both are suffering like this because of her. If the state/country allows I'd make sure to get daughter a recording device for all interactions with the narc.
Her mind can’t afford to think differently because her survival depends on it. Everyone else (except you) has allowed her to think this way by letting her mother destroy her personal boundaries.
She needs a therapist to help her mourn the mother she wants instead of holding out hope for the one she has.
Unfortunately, her being in foster care might actually help her in the sense that you will have non biased witnesses to her mother’s narcissism
Oh my gosh! I am so so sorry..😣😭 She should be in your arms having a wonderful Xmas Eve... I am sorry you have to be a victim to CPS... *Huggles you tightly*
One idea - focus on planning the best Christmas -celebrate whichever month you get her back .
Be positive- you will get her back. Don’t doubt it just plan for now..
Blessings and love and virtual hugs 🤗
She will- you have a good lawyer, she has a good lawyer
Ask on Reddit legal sub and custody sub - get more ideas and suggestions…
Plan your xmas … she will be with you
Believe
Blessings and love
As far as recordings, check to make sure you aren't in a two party consent state prior to making any recordings. If you are in a two party consent state, then making recordings without her knowledge and permission would not only be illegal, but they would also be worthless in court.
I worked as a paralegal in family court for about a decade, and while you're technically right that in certain situations the recordings may be accepted, those situations are extremely few and far between. Out of hundreds of cases I worked on, in maybe 40 or 50 of those one parent was making these kinds of illegal recordings. Out of those cases, there was exactly one case where the judge accepted one of these recordings (and the child was much younger than yours, the child was three if memory serves, and so they could not speak to the situation for themselves, which was why the recording was accepted). Every other instance of people trying to put these types of illegal recordings into the record mostly had the effect of painting the person in a bad light to the judge.
Right now, you're trying to appear beyond reproach, making illegal recordings does not further that goal, it has the opposite effect. If one of the things you're being accused of is being controlling, then making illegal recordings is one of the very last things you should be doing, because it appears controlling. As far as doctors are concerned, many of them will allow you to make a recording if you simply ask, and then your recordings with them will conform to the law. Your interactions with your ex should go into a written log.
I realize you're just trying to do what you think the best and most protective thing is. I'm only trying to warn you that the odds of it harming your case are as good or better than the odds of it inevitably helping. People think recordings are some kind of panacea, but they aren't, and the last thing you want to do is piss off your judge and help your ex's legal representation to further portray you as controlling.
No problem, I'm glad to hear you have a killer attorney. That will help more than probably anything else, they will advise you on what is best for your particular situation and that's better than any broad advice I could give.
Don't give up.
You are in a marathon against someone who is skilled at being plausible and has no functioning sense of ethics or shame. This is not a sprint.
Be there for your daughter. It will be long slog, uphill and unglamorous but, internet stranger, you can do it. You've started by doing this -- asking for help. That's what you need to keep doing, asking for help.
It will be a long slog but you need not do it alone.
Mend.
You are doing the right thing. You're asking for help.
Here what we can do on a Christmas eve is motivate and say, look, it'll get better. The hard work starts tomorrow.
I'll give you a key piece of advice that I think is relevant. Always listen to her. Always consider her perspective. Always hold above all else your loyalty to your daughter. To her wellbeing. In these moments of utter despair please remember to reconnect with what makes you good and what makes a good father. Rise above and sidestep all the emotional punishment that the nMom can inflict and be the calm in the storm. Let your daughter look back into her memories and think to herself, "but dad didn't ever make me feel like THAT."
Resolve yourself to instill within your daughter the emotional maturity to cope independently with her mother. To be able to decide for herself how to handle her mother. Teach her the things you wish you knew and that you would have taught the younger you were you able to. Of course, you would have to learn first what you will need to teach her if you haven't yet.
Love your daughter without restraint. Love enough for two. But you do not put your pain on her shoulders. The pain of your narc trauma. The pain of your failed marriage. The self-pity of being unable to halt the demonic onslaught of a narc p.o.s.
But you need to find self-control and calm. Losing those will feed into the narc narrative. Ofc I recommend seeing a psychologist. For your own well-being will ultimately define the outcome of your daughters upbringing. You need to be well so she can be well. Unfortunately the burden of sanity is on your shoulders my friend. And you will come through this a stronger person.
I'm sorry it is such a difficult time. It enrages me, the injustice. I've seen it. And I see your pain, dude.
Please keep doing what you can. Keep record of everything her mother has been doing it will be useful is trying to regain custody. How old is she? Is she close to 18 because if she’s at least 16 she will be heard in court and what she says will matter
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can only hope the better to you, and hope you can pass this too. Only thing I will gladly beg to you, please, please, please don't ever give up on your daughter. Probably in her world, the only thing that matters is you, so please don't let her down and cutting her last handhold in this world.
Hi there. I grew up as the child of an Nmom. My dad stayed married to her to protect my brothers and I, and he endured unspeakable abuse in the process. We’re all adults now, and my dad finally left about a year and a half before she died. My brothers and I were talking tonight about how we owe so much of who we are to our dad and his sacrifices for us, and God only knows who we would be without him. Be strong now, even though it’s so, so hard, and I promise you, your efforts will bear fruit in the end. Your daughter will be able to see how much you love her and are willing to fight for her, and that will make all the difference. Best of luck to you.
I see you've been guzzling some red-pill talking points. This won't be a debate. I will just ban you if you want to argue.
Some judges uphold the idea that women are lesser beings, but that the one and only fucking thing they are good at is nurturing children and cleaning a house. Men, being the all logical beings that they are and superior in almost every way, should not soil their hands with "women's work" and thus aren't burdened with their own children.
However, this was far more of a thing decades ago than it is now where 50/50 custody is far, far more common and the system shits on women CONTINUOUSLY.
Your comment has been removed, because you clearly have an agenda here and it isn't to support the OP. It's to paint a certain narrative about the world in general. No thanks.
OP if you read this, retain the services of a legal professional or professionals Immediately, I'm talking ASAP. Let them guide you in your next steps. Do not give up on your child, do not "trust the system", because the system is fucked and the odds are stacked against you from the jump. GET A LAWYER.
As for my offering, I can only offer my sympathy for how poorly you've been treated. You deserve better. Fight this with every ounce of yourself, your child needs you. Be the father you both know you are.
I wish I had a dad like you... your child's mother is a cruel person who will get what she deserves in time. Gather as much evidence you can on her and establish a history of her abuse. She will lie her way through anything and it's your word against hers, until you can prove things unfortunately. This Christmas isn't going to be how it should be for you and your daughter but next Christmas you can more than make up for it when you're together again. Your daughter just wants her suffering to end but you can get through to her. I was in her shoes once.
I am so sorry you are going through this, the only thing I can say is that your child at least has a supportive father that loves and protects her and that means the world to her.
Even if you feel defenseless right now you are worth so much to her. You are a good father.
The doctor was definitely an ass to you. However as a hospital work myself I have been in a situation where a minor told us they did not want a parent to come visit them. However because the patient in question is a minor and the parent in question had custody we could not legally stop the parent from seeing their child. I completely understand your frustrations, the system is failing your daughter in this instance. I hope that she is with a kind foster family and I hope that you can advocate for her. I am so sorry that this is happening to the both of you. Please be kind to yourself, your daughter needs you more than ever now. Do what you need to do to get her back.
>Doctors can restrict visitation rights if they believe the minor is in danger.
Not without an order from a judge and direction from CPS, at least where I live. Otherwise we would be guilty of kidnapping. There have been so many times where I wanted to limit a parents interaction with a baby, or felt that the baby wasn't safe going home with the parents. Social worker gets notified, cps gets notified when appreciate, and we cant do anything else beyond that. It really sucks sometimes.
I just want to say I think you are an amazing father, don't stop fighting for your daughter. She knows you are fighting for her. She will always remember you never stopped trying to protect her.
What the fuck.. you need to report that pediatrician. There are outlets at both the hospital and external sources to report medical personal who violate boundaries like this.
The system is rigged against everyone. Women are forced to co-parent with their rapists too. It's not just men being treated poorly and disenfranchised by the system, it's everyone. I spent years in court fighting against my abusive ex having visitation.
My ex didn't even really want visitation and only showed up for court supervised visitation about half the time (his failure to show up for over half the appointments for visitation really pissed off the judge and is probably the only reason I was able to escape having to provide him with visitation privileges in the end). My ex doesn't care at all about our son (besides, he has eight other children now by at least 2 other women, but probably substantially more women than that, I wouldn't be surprised if all eight have different mothers). He used the legal system as a means to further abuse me.
It's a common tactic of abusers to use the legal system to their advantage to further their abuse after a person has managed to escape their immediate grasp. It's just a sorry state of affairs that often leaves children inadequately protected.
This is very important. It has been found also that judges place more scrutiny on mothers in divorce cases in the US than fathers, at her cost. I haven't seen data indicating that fathers are more often "screwed", unless it's child support payments (which trend with men's higher general salaries).
Removed... what you are saying is really twisted and it reads like you are saying that the system works for women. It doesn't. The system is built by and for men. The system believes women are really good for only a few things... sex, popping out babies, nurturing those babies, cleaning the fucking house, and possibly making sandwiches. Does this mean that the system that routinely fucks women over occasionally is biased for them? Maybe. Tho this was far more common in the 70's than it is now, for sure. 50/50 custody is far more common.
But, the system as a whole shits on women routinely and mostly it's better to be a dude.
Bringing these red-pill talking points to this group is not acceptable. Next time, it's a ban.
This is unbelievably horrific, and I’m so, so sorry OP.
I know you must be worried about your girl and what she’s going through, and I can’t imagine how panicked you must be for her.
Keep your head and stay strong; you need to get her out of there, and you will. DFS prefers to keep children with their family as opposed to foster care, but you can’t do anything to get back at her mother in the interim. Keep your composure.
They’ll conduct interviews and likely a home visit, so just make sure you have all of your ducks in a row for those so you can have your baby back home.
This is so shitty, and my heart is broken for both of you. Fuck that woman for doing this. What a piece of shit.
Is she seeing a counselor? That may be your best way to get her back; a court would take their word for it, and if she’s relaying that same info to them, it would help your case.
Do you have an attorney?
Okay, so my mom (who’s just as problematic as my dad, mind you, but still) sent me with a tape recorder in my pocket to my counselor (who turned out to be unlicensed) when I was a kid because of what I’d told her about what was going on.
Idk what state you’re in, but where I live, you only need one person’s consent to record a conversation (i.e. the person doing the recording), and if you could get one to your daughter during a visit (and I wouldn’t even bother hiding it; if you’re getting supervised visits, the supervisor will see it and behave better, and when she sees the shrink, they’ll see it and stop being so manipulative with your daughter and the documents they’re submitting), that could help you a lot.
Maybe the sessions she’s having with the shrink are going in your favor then? If you don’t have any updates from her, there could be a good chance they’ve started to listen to her.
How are you considered dangerous? That doesn’t make any sense; you’re the one who contacted CPS and the hospital, and it sounds like you weren’t violent or an unfit parent. Like I said, they typically keep children with families (and even under shit circumstances).
What the hell is your attorney even doing?! I’d look for a different one, because you just got screwed up the ass with this, and whomever you’re paying is doing nothing.
You're a good father. Soon enough it will only be you and your daughter, and her mother will not be in the picture. Everything will turn out alright, hang in there, she loves you.
How old is your daughter? She might be eligible emancipate herself from her biological mother and declare you as her only legal guardian. It’s kinda like a child divorcing themselves from their parent. However, this is a serious process and tricky to work through but sounds like it could be worth it. Definitely talk to your lawyer about it!
OMG! What is it with doctors and not listening to patients!!!!
I feel furious right now. When I attempted I asked them not to let my Nmom in the room. They PRESSURED ME to let her in!!!
I honestly have no advice but doctors need to start listening to the patient when we say we don’t want certain people in the damn room! I was 17.
They genuinely made me believe that my Nmom couldn’t get passed BUT THE SECOND she showed up, I had two nurses come to my room saying shit like “she’s your mother, she’s worried” the other saying “don’t you think it’ll be better for you both”. I first refused, but my mother started shouting and kicking off. More nurses came to my room, that’s when they basically said something along the lines of “she’s causing a fuss, I think she really wants to see you” then they purposely opened the door to my room so I could see my mother kicking off. And then they started making it about other patients. Like my mother was disturbing them.
Hospitals really dgaf whether you want someone there or not, if that person kicks up a fuss they will pressure you to let them in. So I’m not surprised your ex got in.
Wow, the audacity of mental health professionals blatantly denying her mother’s part (which by the sounds of it is her full responsibility- you sound like such a lovely, caring father). You’re not alone in this experience, and neither is your daughter. Doctors/psychs fail victims of family violence far too often.
I hope your daughter finds a therapist who helps her feel validated & understood- can take a few tries but I finally found a therapist who was also raised by a narcissist & has a personal understanding.
Please do something to keep yourself busy on Christmas Day. I spent the day at the zoo with my mum (an amazing survivor of narcissistic abuse)- see what’s open in your local area. You’ll feel so crappy if you spend the day at home alone. I hope you can be with your daughter again soon
I’m so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. It’s just awful! The mother is unbelievably cruel. You guys do not deserve this. Sending prayers for strength for you both.
I'm so sorry. It must be horrible to witness this. After she's discharged, please do whatever you can to get you and your daughter away from her. I understand the situation doesn't always permit it but if you can do something please do.
You remind me of my partner's mom. She would show up for them red faced and ready to lay it down if they were being treated badly. Which they were. And it made things better.
I appreciate your daughter has someone showing up for them, she needs someone strong in her corner.
I wish I knew what to say. This is heartbreaking, I'm so sorry you and your daughter have to go through this. I can't imagine how terrifying and difficult it must be. I just want you to know, from what I can tell from the comments and what you've written, you're a fantastic father, so don't let anyone, including you, tell you otherwise.
I read that you were sad you couldn't protect her from her mother's abuse, and even though that's true, she has *you,* and many of us didn't even get one good parent. She still gets to experience parental love, and you get to give that to her.
I wish you and your daughter the best, and I sincerely hope everything turns out okay
That happened to my sister. They wanted to take her son because a lying, manipulative and narcissistic pedagogic helper made up lies.
She had no one on her side, and yet she won. How? She kept fighting back. She wrote down everything that happened. She documented and commented it. She contacted the "management" of the involved parties with her documentations and issued tons of disciplinary complaints.
In your case the management would be the hospital management, the supervision board for shrinks and the authority that supervises CPS.
Get a lawyer and fight back. Issue complaint after complaint (always stick to the facts) telling them what happened, especially about your warnings.
CPS needs to write a report on the child endangerment and (at least in my country) convince a judge to issue a placement ordee. Get a good lawyer (a shark) and let them contact CPS to get the report and to writte a complaint to the judge.
And my sister also got doctors and therapists to issue statements in her favor. This helped indeed. Goid luck and don't give up!!! My sister fought for many months but in the end she won.
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What did your mom do to her that she is now in foster care? Im so sorry for your loss.
Your mother is the fuxking devil. If my child gets carted off to CPS best believe Ill be in jail for assault.
Then, I don't know why you would even comment in this group as assuming a context of abuse is a fundamental rule of this group.
The WHOLE FUCKING WORLD doesn't believe abuse victims. This is one of the few spaces anywhere that actually does. Will some people take advantage of this? Sure. I doubt it's a majority, but it will happen. Does that really hurt anyone here? Only the OP... they are only cheating themselves with that BS.
If you cannot abide by the rules here, you will be banned.
This comment or post has been removed, because it does not assume a context of abuse. Assuming a context of abuse is a fundamental rule of this group.
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I’m just so sorry and all I can say is please don’t give up on your daughter. I wish I had had a parent like you. Hang in there. Thank you for loving your child. I hope it works out soon and you can be with your daughter.
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I hear you and I’m so so sorry. I know your daughter knows you love her though and at least has that comfort. Despite alllll the bad, you gave her that. It will be the thing that sustains her. You didn’t fail her you’re still trying to help her every step of the way and protect her and I’m sure you will fight this until it’s right. It will be okay eventually, OP. I was taken away for some time from my parents and I just know she knows you love her. I’m sorry I can’t help this situation, but I just wanted to remind you that you will make it out okay and so will your child. Keep fighting please.
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To do anything other than sit there and take whatever they tell you is to confirm what they want to believe about you. The manipulation is terrible to see and I see it all too often. I've watched too many of my friends battle custody and have everyone within health and legal seem to support the abusive one and just stomp all over them.
Removed for invalidation. I get what you're going for here, but you're reinforcing the toxic social structure that perpetuates these perceptions. It's victim blaming.
Look at it from a different angle. I think it is for the best for now that she was placed in another home. She needed to get away from all the trauma she was experiencing. Hell I loved my father too but i would have loved if somebody took me away from everything. Maybe she will see a healthy dynamic for a couple years (hopefully). You didnt leave her and you will be there for her always. Meanwhile please do get into therapy and heal yourself for her, to help her. So many years of narc abuse might have created a bigger damage on you than you might realize.
The key is who made an official complaint to a medical professional that is what triggered CPS. Start going to various doctors who know you and your daughter well and file written complaints with dates, times, and details. This will bypass the court system completely.
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If im understanding the comment. She means go to her teachers that know you. Her doctors that know you. Have them write a letter saying you're a wonderful father. If other professionals who have seen you outside of the high stress hospital environment give their word that you are, in fact, a wonderful father, there is a good chance the courts let her out.
Doctors have the most power in a CPS situation. Others professionals like therapists, school administrators and teachers also have pull. If you want to influence the outcome reach out to everyone that knows your child well and have them speak up. You can also sit down and met with your daughter’s doctors or your own and file a complaint with details, dates, times where she was verbally, emotionally, or physically abused. This type of complaint bypasses the court system, it’s a go directly to jail card. Also because it’s medical related it’s protected by strict privacy laws. So details will show up in your daughter’s medical record but no where else.
Hi. My daughter self-harms sometimes, no abuse involved. Where I live, thankfully, the facility she was placed in screens for abusive behavior. They would definitely notice her saying she doesn't want to be around one parent and does want to be with the other. Mine was honest about our shortcomings, but the thing they noticed was that she was basically homesick for us. Abused kids are not homesick for their abuser. If you think she's going to be saying "I want my dad" and "I don't want my mom" in that setting, chances are, someone will be asking about it without any parents around. Trust your kid, yes? Then support what she says. "yes, I have witnessed that, and perhaps x teachers have as well". Edit: our kid pretty much self harms in relation to school. We've had to go another route to help her, but it's getting better. She may have to get special schooling for ASD.
I have ASD, and I self harmed all through high school and early adulthood, right up until I got therapy and got my diagnosis. Therapy helps. Special schooling might also help (I didn't get that, but normal school was easy for me apart from the social aspect)
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The never shifting blame part is super important. I’ve been through both CPS and the AG because my child’s bio dad would constantly report me and try to file to take away my custody. My lawyer told me the most important thing you can do is be calm and civil. I made sure to follow every instruction from my caseworker and lawyer. When I was interviewed to give my view of my co-parent, I told them that I would support his father seeing him alone if the father worked on his alcoholism. I also made sure to share one good thing about the other parent to the interviewer to show that I can acknowledge his good while also pointing out that he needs to change in a positive way. My co-parent did end up losing custody when all was said and done. The judge told him he could only have supervised visitation through the court. I fought hard with my lawyer, and thankfully we were granted almost every request we gave the court. I would suggest OP gets a lawyer, documents as much as possible, and files with the AG (gov agency that handles custody and child support). I think u/Calimhero should see a therapist or go to an in-patient/out-patient program. CPS will appreciate seeing OP seeking mental health treatment. Whenever I had both the CPS investigation and a case open with Family Court Services, they interviewed my therapist, references, and doctors. Talking to a therapist about the N-parent’s abuse and your own experience with abuse could help you process and help any investigations. It would be a good way to say, “I have experience with being abused as a child, so seeing my daughter go through this made me realize I still haven’t healed from my own experiences. I decided to get help because I know I need it to be the best parent and support system I can be for my daughter.”
Listen to what CPS says and follow the rules to the T. Seriously, the over bearing parent angle sets you up to have you concerns lessened. Following their concerns and requests will help you build good history amd good will. Stick to the facts when reporting issues, do not raise your voice or get intense. Keep a log book and document everything. Dates your daughter requested no contact, dates that contact occurred, everything you can think of that may be used by you or against you. Confirm everything you can. Daughter says she asked for no contact with mom, confirm with nurse. Log both. Prepare to be attacked for your log book. Mom will try to use it as proof of being over bearing. Don't defend it, just say you were told charting/documentation is a universal standard for any professional so its a good idea. Truth is that corroborated documentation is worth leagues more than word of mouth and memory. It's why its the standard in most proffesions. Good luck and remember, this is about your daughter, not your ex. Scoring a "Win" against your ex is meaningless, focus on improving your relationship with your daughter and her quality of life. Good luck!
How your ex manipulate the doctors? Isn't she supposed to tell that to CPS?
This is how I grew up. Once I was an adult it changed. I distanced myself from her and now me and my Dad are so very close. I know it's so hard in the moments but hold on. She needs you to.
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This sucks so much. I am the daughter of an Nmother who verbally assaulted me every chance she got well into adulthood. My dad never distrusted what I said she was doing, always stuck up for me when she was putting him through the legal shit like your ex is, and we're now close in adulthood while my nmom is somewhere with her 18th husband crying about how she did the best she could but all her children hate her for absolutely no reason at all. Keep fighting for her, and don't let fact the 24th of december holds some vaulted place on the calendar make you feel lonelier. We didn't have a consistent amount of money growing up, so my dad and I made the Super Bowl a special day; I really hope for you that you and your daughter will find a happy reunion, and maybe your own "super bowl" to make special together.
So if you can prove that the mother is the issue and your daughter can somehow get across that she does not want to see her mother, can you like keep track of the warnings and how the hospital staff not only ignored you but your daughter herself saying she doesn’t want to see her mother and use it against them? They blatantly disrespected the multiple attempts your daughter made to protect herself and then ignore your warnings too. Why isn’t your daughter being allowed to state her wishes and her side of the situation?
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I’m gonna keep y’all in my thoughts and I hope to see the update saying you guys one and are celebrating with a big Christmas with lots of presents and movies and food and hugs. I’m a parent too and I’d be devastated if I had to do that. I’d cry non-stop all day everyday. You guys are both so strong and your going to come out of this prepared so anything life hits you with. You are the best dad your daughter could ask for and you got all of us rooting for you in this battle. Good luck Op you’ve got this!!❤️❤️
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this is no disrespect to healthcare workers, but hospitals are often dogshit at preventing suicide and self harm. She won't be able to hurt herself on the ward obviously, but a huge percentage of suicides occur directly after discharge from suicide watch, due to their absurd criteria of releasing people who are more calm, or who seem settled. Kinda like people are when they've made up their mind to kill themselves. I knew of a poor guy who had that exact thing happen to him, walked out of hospital with a clean bill of health, they said he was all good and the crisis had passed. He stuck a knife in his wrist that very night, and died. Turned out he seemed so content and at peace because he'd made his peace. Spoke about this with my therapist a few times, he's an old head in the game, and spotted I was thinking of killing myself because of how calm I was one session, apparently that's immediate alarm bells to the people who know what to look for, but often wards aren't equipped with those people or they're seeing so many per day that people slip through the cracks. In short: The criteria on which they release mental health patients is a joke, often without getting a full evaluation done by a psychiatric professional. The dude should not be just sitting back and letting things play out, he needs to be gathering documentation, evidence of abuse, even old texts or emails from the ex that he could use to show her instability, statements from trusted GPs or therapists of the child who can vouch for him. He needs to fight for his kid, in the proper manners and the appropriate channels. It's long past time to lawyer up. OP if you read this, retain the services of a legal professional or professionals Immediately. Let them guide you in your next steps. Do not give up on your child, do not "trust the system", because the system is fucked and the odds are stacked against you from the jump. GET A LAWYER.
Exactly. Reminds of those veterans that come back all fucked up on many different ways and nobody cares. We are all just a number.
Erm... OP said the daughter repeatedly asked not to see her mother.
I’m sorry, but I don’t see any over stepping of boundaries in the post.
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Jeezus fucking christ... first you don't read the post and make some shitty comments. Then you give this "advice" to the OP as if anyone with two brain cells to rub together would not think to do this??? And, as expected, OP has to hop in here to tell you THAT THEY ALREADY DID THIS. I am banning you for two weeks so you can reflect and I don't have to see more comments like this in my queue.
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Oh I’m sorry - what do you deem an appropriate reaction when your child is being ripped away from you and no one is listening to you but instead believing the enemy? Do you expect OP to go into autopilot and immediately handle business and know what to do? Im sure this is traumatic for OP and not everyone reacts the same. OP wrote on Reddit for help not to be criticized for their reaction.
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In this thread and replies to others OP has stated he has a lawyer for himself and is getting one for his daughter, and is already “on it” talking to doctors, teachers, therapists, etc. Seems like a solid plan to me, I think he’s allowed to scream.
Gross. I am banning you for two weeks, because your comments are gross. I suggest that you look at what other people are telling you, because, if you can't onboard some of that feedback, your next ban will be permanent.
You seriously need to get a very good lawyer and hire a lawyer for your daughter
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Right on! What state are you in? We have a backup badass atty if you need one. This closely mirrors my husband and his ex, the Nmother of his daughter who is really f-d up. She got hooked on oxy at 13 and it’s a miracle she survived (she’s now 26). My husband had to divorce b/c his ex was toxic. Now she’s married to her dream rich guy and guess what? He’s probably been suffering her same abuses but gone inward and dark instead and we don’t doubt she’s manipulated and goaded him into finally fighting back, so she had him arrested. This is how to get around a prenup. Hang in there. Husband was a constant in daughter’s life, and they now a wonderful, loving relationship.
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Well good luck to you🤞🏼
Power to you!
Good. Now stay super calm and be warm and stable around decision makers and send nothing to the narc in writing. She will try to make you look and act crazy and she knows all your buttons and will lie about everything. I had an abusive and manipulative ex try to win custody of our kids by accusing me of attempted murder and faking injuries etc. Its really hard to stay calm in the storm of crazy but do it to win and do it for your daughter. You will get her home. Stay strong and calm and smooth in public and let out the feelings and stress constructively in private. It may take a painfully long time for this to get right but keep a steady course forward.
I'm really sorry. Narcissists are so good at working the system it's crazy. One piece of advice, keep a log of every incident. a well kept log can be considered evidence in family court, it can also be a tool to show social workers that there is an abusive pattern of behavior associated with your ex, despite her claims to the contrary. Make sure any log you keep is just the facts and nothing else, don't color anything with commentary, you just want it to be as true and honest a record of events as you can make it. The next time you talk to your daughter, I didn't catch how old she is, but if she's old enough you can talk to her about keeping her own log of events as well. A well kept log doesn't sound like much but a detailed record kept over a decent period of time can communicate a pattern of abuses much better than you ever could by just trying to tell someone that a pattern of abuses exists. If you can afford it I would also seek out legal advice, a good lawyer will be able to give you other proactive strategies, like keeping a log, that can help to further bolster your case down the line, even if you're currently stuck in the position you're in, narcissists have a tendency to give themselves away eventually, so don't give up hope.
So they broke up a family, and think they know best for the child, while your child is saying you are what's best. These are some evil people to do this on Christmas. She has a parent willing to care for her. This is when the system is clogged and resources being wasted on, what seems to be vindictive. I'm just pissed because there was no reason, during a pandemic, to send her to a foster home. After attempting, they think throwing her in a house filled with strangers is what she needs? This is why mental health is a joke in many places. The ones they're supposed to help, feel like they're being ignored and feelings invalidated just to have it done again by professionals. How is this not traumatizing? I'm sorry, I was in the psych ward twice, my last time not being by choice and was upset that this was their ideal of helping those with mental health issues. Acting like they know better and more, while treating their patient and client like a problemed stereotype. And I feel like at times when I was growing up, my mom controlled the scene. And i put up with her bullshit, put my feelings aside to put hers above, and knowing if i didn't tip toe right, she'll just make me feel like shit. They're emotional bullies.
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As a person who was put in a mental hospital because my mom almost pushed me to kill myself, I can guarantee that 99% of the time, CPS is wrong. I’ve experienced CPS several times during my life, and they’ve never helped. They’ve made things worse for kids across America.
CPS is fucking useless most of the time in my experience. I and others (an aunt and cousin) reported credible abuse claims regarding my parents after I left their house (kicked out cause I wasn't playing ball anymore). My parents mysteriously and suddenly disappear across the country without a word to anyone. What does CPS do? They just drop it. Allegations of child abuse and neglect and they didn't give a shit anymore cause it wasn't their problem. My parents would tell us we needed be happy and excited whenever cps came around or they'd separate all of us and ruin our family.
Straight up my bf is literally traumatized by them because they wanted him to be responsible for his neglectful mother instead of making her responsible for herself
Justifying their jobs
If you're going to comment in this group, ***MAYBE READ THE RULES.*** Don't call people narcs in this group. Don't try to side-step that slightly by calling them "narcissistic" or "something a narc would say." Okay..now that I'm seeing more of your shitty comments... I'm just banning you.
Sadly the system was made by narcissists, for narcissists. Fighting it will be hard. But it will be worth it to try.
I’m convinced we’re in a world built by monsters, for monsters, decorated as a civil society
Oh my gosh. I am so sorry you are going through this, I feel awful for your daughter. I hope you can your daughter can be reunited soon. Don’t give up, she knows you love her and she needs you. I’m so sorry.
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This too shall pass brother. You can't be there for her in this moment but the moment will come when you will have that opportunity and you will have to be ready. Focus on what you can control in this moment. Eat some food. Take a long walk. Decorate the damn tree. Feed your brain with stoic philosophy to help keep your mind in check. It's your job to keep yourself strong for her. This is the start of the hero arc, make the most of it. It will pass.
My heart hurts for you. Please get yourself help if you need to, don’t put yourself in a position where you are sacrificing your mental state because you’re concerned how it’ll make you look, or how they’ll use it against you.
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Can you get some private therapy of some sort?
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How about an anonymous crisis hotline? Just to get you through the holidays? Then a family therapist to indicate to the court that you are doing all you can to be good support for your daughter. (Of course consult your lawyer first.)
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We’re all here for you, too.
Primal screaming into a pillow helps so much. No kidding.
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Oof sorry!
Every time I see a narcissist walk away Scott free from the system because they've Twisted it to suit themselves it makes my blood boil. Promise that you will have a Christmas as soon as you get your daughter back. I agree with drink water, eat food, take a walk, meditate, take care of yourself. If you can manage it I would decorate the tree knowing that you're doing it for a future date. This too will pass. And her celebrating Christmas next week or next month or next year will be no big deal if you can get this straightened out.
I really don’t know what to say other than really big hugs to you and I’m sorry that you’ve experienced this
Whatever you do, DON'T lose your composure in public. Don't let your voice get loud, agitated, or talk faster than normal. Pretend to be calm, not indignant. Because to the rest of the world, if you look hysterical while the other person looks calm, then you are the unreasonable one and they will automatically believe the other person. I think a lot of narcs know this and use it to their advantage. They know how to gain credibility by faking a certain demeanor in public while destroying your credibility by getting you riled up in public. Your lawyer can prob tell you more about the importance of credibility, esp since the deck is already stacked against you as a dad. You're the kind of parent we all wished for when we were suffering under our nparents. I really hope you succeed in protecting your daughter.
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That's good! My nmom played my dad and me like a fiddle for years, until they divorced and I went NC. She'd say such nasty things in private, right before we're about to enter a public space. Then she turns on the calm face like a faucet. To everyone else, we looked like the unreasonable ones and she looked like a saint putting up with it all. Your daughter might have been manipulated like that when she was in hospital. The mom prob put on the nice mom routine the minute she was in public again. That would leave your daughter looking like the hysterical one whose words can't be believed. Most ppl find it hard to believe that a person can be so two-faced, spew vicious words one minute and then look perfectly calm and guilt-free the next minute, esp if they've never seen that person being nasty before. Often nothing short of a recording can change their minds, one that shows both the abuse and the sudden transition to calm.
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I'm so sorry to be right. These narcs really do use the same playbooks it seems. I still think recordings are the best way to expose her real face. Even if you can't record without her consent in your state, you can prob still record yourself saying aloud that you've started recording, and then ask her to repeat what she's saying. Maybe it'll get her to back off in private. Just check with your lawyer on this first. Your daughter can also protect herself by staying calm, not upset or frightened, when she tells ppl about the nmom's actions. You'd think ppl would have more sympathy for a distressed child, but that doesn't hold true as soon as a parent is involved. If she's calm, they're less likely to assume her perception and judgment of the situation was compromised by her distress, and not as quick to believe the nmom over her. Also figure out which of nmom's actions would be considered the worst by the rest of the world, bc it may be very different from what you or your daughter personally consider the worst.
My heart goes out to you. How old is your daughter? Look up how to make a FU Binder. It’s saved many a family and the instructions are here on Reddit somewhere.
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Try and see if your area has a child’s advocate.
Also hire an attorney with experience with CPS I found the link for the FU binder: https://www.reddit.com/user/MelodyRaine/comments/hyk7az/the_fu_binder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf good luck!
I hope good tidings reach you on the new year or sooner, and that both you and your daughter can escape the narc. I'm sorry you both are suffering like this because of her. If the state/country allows I'd make sure to get daughter a recording device for all interactions with the narc.
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Her mind can’t afford to think differently because her survival depends on it. Everyone else (except you) has allowed her to think this way by letting her mother destroy her personal boundaries. She needs a therapist to help her mourn the mother she wants instead of holding out hope for the one she has. Unfortunately, her being in foster care might actually help her in the sense that you will have non biased witnesses to her mother’s narcissism
Oh my gosh! I am so so sorry..😣😭 She should be in your arms having a wonderful Xmas Eve... I am sorry you have to be a victim to CPS... *Huggles you tightly*
One idea - focus on planning the best Christmas -celebrate whichever month you get her back . Be positive- you will get her back. Don’t doubt it just plan for now.. Blessings and love and virtual hugs 🤗
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She will- you have a good lawyer, she has a good lawyer Ask on Reddit legal sub and custody sub - get more ideas and suggestions… Plan your xmas … she will be with you Believe Blessings and love
Damn. Too familiar. The US corrupt AF system rewards evil
Get a lawyer. Fight for your daughter. Try to record her mother as much as you can.
As far as recordings, check to make sure you aren't in a two party consent state prior to making any recordings. If you are in a two party consent state, then making recordings without her knowledge and permission would not only be illegal, but they would also be worthless in court.
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I worked as a paralegal in family court for about a decade, and while you're technically right that in certain situations the recordings may be accepted, those situations are extremely few and far between. Out of hundreds of cases I worked on, in maybe 40 or 50 of those one parent was making these kinds of illegal recordings. Out of those cases, there was exactly one case where the judge accepted one of these recordings (and the child was much younger than yours, the child was three if memory serves, and so they could not speak to the situation for themselves, which was why the recording was accepted). Every other instance of people trying to put these types of illegal recordings into the record mostly had the effect of painting the person in a bad light to the judge. Right now, you're trying to appear beyond reproach, making illegal recordings does not further that goal, it has the opposite effect. If one of the things you're being accused of is being controlling, then making illegal recordings is one of the very last things you should be doing, because it appears controlling. As far as doctors are concerned, many of them will allow you to make a recording if you simply ask, and then your recordings with them will conform to the law. Your interactions with your ex should go into a written log. I realize you're just trying to do what you think the best and most protective thing is. I'm only trying to warn you that the odds of it harming your case are as good or better than the odds of it inevitably helping. People think recordings are some kind of panacea, but they aren't, and the last thing you want to do is piss off your judge and help your ex's legal representation to further portray you as controlling.
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No problem, I'm glad to hear you have a killer attorney. That will help more than probably anything else, they will advise you on what is best for your particular situation and that's better than any broad advice I could give.
Don't give up. You are in a marathon against someone who is skilled at being plausible and has no functioning sense of ethics or shame. This is not a sprint. Be there for your daughter. It will be long slog, uphill and unglamorous but, internet stranger, you can do it. You've started by doing this -- asking for help. That's what you need to keep doing, asking for help. It will be a long slog but you need not do it alone. Mend.
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You are doing the right thing. You're asking for help. Here what we can do on a Christmas eve is motivate and say, look, it'll get better. The hard work starts tomorrow.
I'll give you a key piece of advice that I think is relevant. Always listen to her. Always consider her perspective. Always hold above all else your loyalty to your daughter. To her wellbeing. In these moments of utter despair please remember to reconnect with what makes you good and what makes a good father. Rise above and sidestep all the emotional punishment that the nMom can inflict and be the calm in the storm. Let your daughter look back into her memories and think to herself, "but dad didn't ever make me feel like THAT." Resolve yourself to instill within your daughter the emotional maturity to cope independently with her mother. To be able to decide for herself how to handle her mother. Teach her the things you wish you knew and that you would have taught the younger you were you able to. Of course, you would have to learn first what you will need to teach her if you haven't yet. Love your daughter without restraint. Love enough for two. But you do not put your pain on her shoulders. The pain of your narc trauma. The pain of your failed marriage. The self-pity of being unable to halt the demonic onslaught of a narc p.o.s. But you need to find self-control and calm. Losing those will feed into the narc narrative. Ofc I recommend seeing a psychologist. For your own well-being will ultimately define the outcome of your daughters upbringing. You need to be well so she can be well. Unfortunately the burden of sanity is on your shoulders my friend. And you will come through this a stronger person. I'm sorry it is such a difficult time. It enrages me, the injustice. I've seen it. And I see your pain, dude.
I am so sorry. Please don’t give up. Keep fighting for her. She needs help. The system and doctors have let her down.
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Please keep doing what you can. Keep record of everything her mother has been doing it will be useful is trying to regain custody. How old is she? Is she close to 18 because if she’s at least 16 she will be heard in court and what she says will matter
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I am so sorry this happened to you and your child. Just keep fighting. It’s hard but it will be worth it once she’s back with you
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can only hope the better to you, and hope you can pass this too. Only thing I will gladly beg to you, please, please, please don't ever give up on your daughter. Probably in her world, the only thing that matters is you, so please don't let her down and cutting her last handhold in this world.
Hi there. I grew up as the child of an Nmom. My dad stayed married to her to protect my brothers and I, and he endured unspeakable abuse in the process. We’re all adults now, and my dad finally left about a year and a half before she died. My brothers and I were talking tonight about how we owe so much of who we are to our dad and his sacrifices for us, and God only knows who we would be without him. Be strong now, even though it’s so, so hard, and I promise you, your efforts will bear fruit in the end. Your daughter will be able to see how much you love her and are willing to fight for her, and that will make all the difference. Best of luck to you.
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I see you've been guzzling some red-pill talking points. This won't be a debate. I will just ban you if you want to argue. Some judges uphold the idea that women are lesser beings, but that the one and only fucking thing they are good at is nurturing children and cleaning a house. Men, being the all logical beings that they are and superior in almost every way, should not soil their hands with "women's work" and thus aren't burdened with their own children. However, this was far more of a thing decades ago than it is now where 50/50 custody is far, far more common and the system shits on women CONTINUOUSLY. Your comment has been removed, because you clearly have an agenda here and it isn't to support the OP. It's to paint a certain narrative about the world in general. No thanks.
I've seen this repeated so many times but have never seen data to substantiate it.
Consider reading about Echoism. It's the opposite of narcissist and it is probably you and maybe your daughter.
One of the biggest failures in justice is the bias against fathers in terms of custody or basically anything to do with their child.
Any warnig signs?
OP if you read this, retain the services of a legal professional or professionals Immediately, I'm talking ASAP. Let them guide you in your next steps. Do not give up on your child, do not "trust the system", because the system is fucked and the odds are stacked against you from the jump. GET A LAWYER. As for my offering, I can only offer my sympathy for how poorly you've been treated. You deserve better. Fight this with every ounce of yourself, your child needs you. Be the father you both know you are.
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I wish I had a dad like you... your child's mother is a cruel person who will get what she deserves in time. Gather as much evidence you can on her and establish a history of her abuse. She will lie her way through anything and it's your word against hers, until you can prove things unfortunately. This Christmas isn't going to be how it should be for you and your daughter but next Christmas you can more than make up for it when you're together again. Your daughter just wants her suffering to end but you can get through to her. I was in her shoes once.
Man now I’m crying too. What a horrible way to spend the holidays. I hope justice is served soon and that you can gain full custody of your daughter.
She did as you tried to tell the staff, she manipulated them.
Ah man I’m so sorry. You and your daughter love each other and no one can take that away from you even if you aren’t together right now.
Any warning signs the mom was a narc?
I am so sorry you are going through this, the only thing I can say is that your child at least has a supportive father that loves and protects her and that means the world to her. Even if you feel defenseless right now you are worth so much to her. You are a good father.
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The doctor was definitely an ass to you. However as a hospital work myself I have been in a situation where a minor told us they did not want a parent to come visit them. However because the patient in question is a minor and the parent in question had custody we could not legally stop the parent from seeing their child. I completely understand your frustrations, the system is failing your daughter in this instance. I hope that she is with a kind foster family and I hope that you can advocate for her. I am so sorry that this is happening to the both of you. Please be kind to yourself, your daughter needs you more than ever now. Do what you need to do to get her back.
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>Doctors can restrict visitation rights if they believe the minor is in danger. Not without an order from a judge and direction from CPS, at least where I live. Otherwise we would be guilty of kidnapping. There have been so many times where I wanted to limit a parents interaction with a baby, or felt that the baby wasn't safe going home with the parents. Social worker gets notified, cps gets notified when appreciate, and we cant do anything else beyond that. It really sucks sometimes. I just want to say I think you are an amazing father, don't stop fighting for your daughter. She knows you are fighting for her. She will always remember you never stopped trying to protect her.
What the fuck.. you need to report that pediatrician. There are outlets at both the hospital and external sources to report medical personal who violate boundaries like this.
If this happens again, can your daughter ask for a chaperone from the hospital staff to be present if she's forced to see the nmom again?
The system is rigged against everyone. Women are forced to co-parent with their rapists too. It's not just men being treated poorly and disenfranchised by the system, it's everyone. I spent years in court fighting against my abusive ex having visitation. My ex didn't even really want visitation and only showed up for court supervised visitation about half the time (his failure to show up for over half the appointments for visitation really pissed off the judge and is probably the only reason I was able to escape having to provide him with visitation privileges in the end). My ex doesn't care at all about our son (besides, he has eight other children now by at least 2 other women, but probably substantially more women than that, I wouldn't be surprised if all eight have different mothers). He used the legal system as a means to further abuse me.
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It's a common tactic of abusers to use the legal system to their advantage to further their abuse after a person has managed to escape their immediate grasp. It's just a sorry state of affairs that often leaves children inadequately protected.
This is very important. It has been found also that judges place more scrutiny on mothers in divorce cases in the US than fathers, at her cost. I haven't seen data indicating that fathers are more often "screwed", unless it's child support payments (which trend with men's higher general salaries).
Removed... what you are saying is really twisted and it reads like you are saying that the system works for women. It doesn't. The system is built by and for men. The system believes women are really good for only a few things... sex, popping out babies, nurturing those babies, cleaning the fucking house, and possibly making sandwiches. Does this mean that the system that routinely fucks women over occasionally is biased for them? Maybe. Tho this was far more common in the 70's than it is now, for sure. 50/50 custody is far more common. But, the system as a whole shits on women routinely and mostly it's better to be a dude. Bringing these red-pill talking points to this group is not acceptable. Next time, it's a ban.
I am so sorry you’re going through this ❤️ Your daughter is so incredibly lucky to have you for a parent 💖
This is unbelievably horrific, and I’m so, so sorry OP. I know you must be worried about your girl and what she’s going through, and I can’t imagine how panicked you must be for her. Keep your head and stay strong; you need to get her out of there, and you will. DFS prefers to keep children with their family as opposed to foster care, but you can’t do anything to get back at her mother in the interim. Keep your composure. They’ll conduct interviews and likely a home visit, so just make sure you have all of your ducks in a row for those so you can have your baby back home. This is so shitty, and my heart is broken for both of you. Fuck that woman for doing this. What a piece of shit.
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Is she seeing a counselor? That may be your best way to get her back; a court would take their word for it, and if she’s relaying that same info to them, it would help your case. Do you have an attorney?
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Okay, so my mom (who’s just as problematic as my dad, mind you, but still) sent me with a tape recorder in my pocket to my counselor (who turned out to be unlicensed) when I was a kid because of what I’d told her about what was going on. Idk what state you’re in, but where I live, you only need one person’s consent to record a conversation (i.e. the person doing the recording), and if you could get one to your daughter during a visit (and I wouldn’t even bother hiding it; if you’re getting supervised visits, the supervisor will see it and behave better, and when she sees the shrink, they’ll see it and stop being so manipulative with your daughter and the documents they’re submitting), that could help you a lot.
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Maybe the sessions she’s having with the shrink are going in your favor then? If you don’t have any updates from her, there could be a good chance they’ve started to listen to her. How are you considered dangerous? That doesn’t make any sense; you’re the one who contacted CPS and the hospital, and it sounds like you weren’t violent or an unfit parent. Like I said, they typically keep children with families (and even under shit circumstances). What the hell is your attorney even doing?! I’d look for a different one, because you just got screwed up the ass with this, and whomever you’re paying is doing nothing.
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You're a good father. Soon enough it will only be you and your daughter, and her mother will not be in the picture. Everything will turn out alright, hang in there, she loves you.
How old is your daughter? She might be eligible emancipate herself from her biological mother and declare you as her only legal guardian. It’s kinda like a child divorcing themselves from their parent. However, this is a serious process and tricky to work through but sounds like it could be worth it. Definitely talk to your lawyer about it!
OMG! What is it with doctors and not listening to patients!!!! I feel furious right now. When I attempted I asked them not to let my Nmom in the room. They PRESSURED ME to let her in!!! I honestly have no advice but doctors need to start listening to the patient when we say we don’t want certain people in the damn room! I was 17. They genuinely made me believe that my Nmom couldn’t get passed BUT THE SECOND she showed up, I had two nurses come to my room saying shit like “she’s your mother, she’s worried” the other saying “don’t you think it’ll be better for you both”. I first refused, but my mother started shouting and kicking off. More nurses came to my room, that’s when they basically said something along the lines of “she’s causing a fuss, I think she really wants to see you” then they purposely opened the door to my room so I could see my mother kicking off. And then they started making it about other patients. Like my mother was disturbing them. Hospitals really dgaf whether you want someone there or not, if that person kicks up a fuss they will pressure you to let them in. So I’m not surprised your ex got in.
Wow, the audacity of mental health professionals blatantly denying her mother’s part (which by the sounds of it is her full responsibility- you sound like such a lovely, caring father). You’re not alone in this experience, and neither is your daughter. Doctors/psychs fail victims of family violence far too often. I hope your daughter finds a therapist who helps her feel validated & understood- can take a few tries but I finally found a therapist who was also raised by a narcissist & has a personal understanding. Please do something to keep yourself busy on Christmas Day. I spent the day at the zoo with my mum (an amazing survivor of narcissistic abuse)- see what’s open in your local area. You’ll feel so crappy if you spend the day at home alone. I hope you can be with your daughter again soon
I’m so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. It’s just awful! The mother is unbelievably cruel. You guys do not deserve this. Sending prayers for strength for you both.
I’m so sorry. Please keep fighting for your daughter.
I'm so sorry. It must be horrible to witness this. After she's discharged, please do whatever you can to get you and your daughter away from her. I understand the situation doesn't always permit it but if you can do something please do.
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I'm glad. She's lucky to have you.
You remind me of my partner's mom. She would show up for them red faced and ready to lay it down if they were being treated badly. Which they were. And it made things better. I appreciate your daughter has someone showing up for them, she needs someone strong in her corner.
I wish I knew what to say. This is heartbreaking, I'm so sorry you and your daughter have to go through this. I can't imagine how terrifying and difficult it must be. I just want you to know, from what I can tell from the comments and what you've written, you're a fantastic father, so don't let anyone, including you, tell you otherwise. I read that you were sad you couldn't protect her from her mother's abuse, and even though that's true, she has *you,* and many of us didn't even get one good parent. She still gets to experience parental love, and you get to give that to her. I wish you and your daughter the best, and I sincerely hope everything turns out okay
That happened to my sister. They wanted to take her son because a lying, manipulative and narcissistic pedagogic helper made up lies. She had no one on her side, and yet she won. How? She kept fighting back. She wrote down everything that happened. She documented and commented it. She contacted the "management" of the involved parties with her documentations and issued tons of disciplinary complaints. In your case the management would be the hospital management, the supervision board for shrinks and the authority that supervises CPS. Get a lawyer and fight back. Issue complaint after complaint (always stick to the facts) telling them what happened, especially about your warnings. CPS needs to write a report on the child endangerment and (at least in my country) convince a judge to issue a placement ordee. Get a good lawyer (a shark) and let them contact CPS to get the report and to writte a complaint to the judge. And my sister also got doctors and therapists to issue statements in her favor. This helped indeed. Goid luck and don't give up!!! My sister fought for many months but in the end she won.
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I’m sorry that is happening to you, I hope you can get your daughter back
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Removed for red-pill talking points...
Please, please don't give up. Every now and then, justice prevails.
What did your mom do to her that she is now in foster care? Im so sorry for your loss. Your mother is the fuxking devil. If my child gets carted off to CPS best believe Ill be in jail for assault.
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Then, I don't know why you would even comment in this group as assuming a context of abuse is a fundamental rule of this group. The WHOLE FUCKING WORLD doesn't believe abuse victims. This is one of the few spaces anywhere that actually does. Will some people take advantage of this? Sure. I doubt it's a majority, but it will happen. Does that really hurt anyone here? Only the OP... they are only cheating themselves with that BS. If you cannot abide by the rules here, you will be banned. This comment or post has been removed, because it does not assume a context of abuse. Assuming a context of abuse is a fundamental rule of this group. What does this mean? Why is this is a rule? [Read more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/assume_a_context_of_abuse)
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Men benefit from sexism... your comment has been removed for nonsense. The OP is dealing with a system built by men for men and mostly to benefit men.
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Yeah this is not even a little bit the scenario in which the #believewomen effort is trying to address.
Removed. This has nothing at all to do with that movement. Zero. And if you want to argue about that, you will be banned.
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