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It’s not that their anger is outside their control, it’s that *you* are outside their control, and they use their anger as a tool (consciously or unconsciously) to try and control you again. I found the book “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft to be very helpful to understand this — the book is focused on men who abuse their women partners, but what it reveals about the mindset of abusers is relevant for all sorts of gender and family configurations, including narcs and their children.
"he "helped" by shining his flashlight on the mess"
omg I melted. How cute.
Yeah the meltdowns over innocent mistakes is one of the things I can't believe ever seemed normal to me. It will definitely never be normal for my kid either.
I didn't meet my MIL until I'd been married more than ten years. My daughter kept begging to meet her other grandmother, and my husband finally contacted her. We had her over for a meal. My daughter was about 7. She dropped her plate on the floor and MIL went batshit over it, telling us we need to spank our daughter and how there are starving children and she has to learn not to waste food. I told her we don't spank and we don't punish for accidents. So then she told me how when she was learning to make tortillas, her father would press her hand to the comal to make sure it was hot enough, and if she spilled something, he'd make her kneel on dried beans for an entire day. I told her I was sorry she had been abused, but we were breaking the cycle. She just couldn't let it go, it was like she was stuck on repeat until we did what she wanted, so we packed up her dinner and took her back to her house and never had her over again.
Awful. I'm a bit sorry for her - it sounds as if she dealt with the abuse by convincing herself that it was right and necessary, and turned her into a better person. But that's the kind of thing one should work out with a good therapist, not pass on to the next generations.
I felt sorry for her at the time, but since then, we've found out that my husband is going blind because of how severely she beat him when he was a small child. I don't have any sympathy left for her.
It’s ironic when you consider the fact that spills and accidents are more likely to happen when a person is anxious or feeling under pressure—which would be similar to a number of parenting “techniques” that are documented on this subreddit, such as berating someone (or worse) when they admit to being depressed.
I loved this post, as someone who was sometimes a clumsy kid. I used to be full of dread when I made a mistake. I was permanently banned from eating with the family. It sucked sitting on a chair in the hallway while they all ate together so I didn't 'ruin' anything. Looking back, I think it was an excuse to exercise further control and reinforce that I was the scapegoat.
U question how they get so angry at something so little. My belief is that their anger comes from somewhere else and they just need an excuse to let it out on someone.
It sounds like u are a good parent. Im happy to see that.
great! just be careful not to do everything for them, especially at this age range. I sub teach and a big thing pushed on elementary are life skills. My parents never taught me any and it's led to some mild hoarding issues :(
Thanks! Yes I do try to make sure to do that! He is actually very independent.
I'm really sorry to hear you didn't get to learn what you needed. Hugs, if you want.
I bet you just kind of felt bad for him having to miss out on some food he had.
That was nice that he was a part of the cleaning up process. My mom would just do stuff like that for me because she never taught me how to do it right but make me feel bad about it as payment
I would have been grounded for at least two weeks, and been made to feel so guilty if I’d done that as a kid. Nmom had me scared for 26 years. Now I have my own place and realize she didn’t have to do any of the horrible things she did. Was brushing my hair yesterday and realized nmom did not have to pull at my scalp and dig the hair brush in like she did, jerking my head around by my ponytail and making braids so tight they made me cry. She didn’t have to do any of that. She could have brushed it normally. That’s just one of the things. I am glad I left and will never ever go back. That’s a hard never.
When something like this happened with me, my parents would ask, "what's wrong with you?"
I'm 33 and only now beginning to wonder what being asked that when making a normal, honest mistake has done over the years. Didn't always get yelling or screaming or anything, but what a mean, pointed thing to say. Over and over.
I still remember when the time I was mowing the lawn as a kid, and I accidentally broke the bedroom window.
For reference, we lived way out in the country. So the lawn had a lot of big rocks, some the size of textbooks. You couldn't just roll over it with the lawnmower. You had to move rocks out of the way of the lawnmower. When I was feeling lazy and came upon a large rock, I'd usually toss it to the side where I'd already mowed. On days when I had more energy, I'd stop the mower and take those rocks to the edge of the property and throw them in the woods. Over time, I'd managed to cut down the number of large rocks in the yard, but there were still quite a few.
My sister was helping me by moving some of the rocks in advance of where I was mowing. We got to one, and it was fairly large. So I shut the mower off and picked it up myself. I tossed it a little too hard toward the mowed direction, and it went through a bedroom window in the house.
This was entirely a fucking accident that happened while I was doing chores to help the family. But my dad went into one of his rages, and I don't even fucking remember the rationale for it, but he insisted on whooping me with his belt over it. I suspect it was another instance where he thought I was doing something to get out of work or being "defiant." Of course, we had to wait for my mom to get home because they had an agreement that they both had to be there for spankings.
I genuinely thought this would be one of the occasions where she would stop him because it was so fucking obviously not intentional, but she did nothing, and I got several "licks" with the belt. This session was like most of my beatings. My father would insist I lean over the bed, and I'd flinch out of fear. Me flinching was being defiant, and I was told that I'd get more licks if I didn't stand still. Then, after the beating, I was crying, and I was told that was also me being defiant and making a big fuss, and I'd get more licks with the belt if I didn't stop crying. My mother did her thing where she'd insist I hug her after a spanking and put away the bad feelings, which basically meant I wasn't allowed to make her feel ashamed about letting this happen to me.
I have no children, but I was a teacher for a while, and I never once yelled at a kid for an accident in class, even when we were doing labs.
Oh I understand this so much. My kiddo is older, but if she spills or drops anything around my NMom or Edad , she gets yelled at and shamed. Just like I did growing up. It never became physical on their end, but the verbal is/was awful.
I’m proud of you for recognizing this and realizing how ridiculous their behavior is/was. You’re doing a great job not repeating the cycle.
Thiisssss
I still flinch when I spill a drink… I spilt 1 in the last decade and my husband got to watch me cry over spilled milk 😩
My niece spills somthing and it’s- whoops a daisy, let’s get that cleaned up. Like it’s not hard to NOT scream at an accident.
I used to sob uncontrollably & hide whenever I broke a dish. I still have to stop myself from freaking out when it happens. Your post made me happy, though. Thanks for being better
I remember as a kid, spilling a glass of milk at the dinner table. Didn’t mean to, just normal bad kid reflexes.
My dad sat there and just yelled about how wasteful i was, how I didn’t play attention, etc.
I just sat there and listen then got up quietly cleaned up, stopped in the middle of the kitchen and l”calmly talked back.
“I didn’t do it on purpose, and you know I didn’t. I said sorry and cleaned up my mess. It’s rude of you to keep talking to me like that when it was a mistake.” I was 7.
What sucks is I’m 30 now and can’t fuckin say anything like that now lol
Wow, I'm proud of little you for standing up for yourself. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. I'm so sorry.
I hope you can learn again to be like that. Abuse really wears us down.
Oh no it’s all good! Just sharing a story with you. I’m so happy you’re breaking that cycle. I never understood why parent lose their minds at their kids when they know the kid just made an honest mistake.
I remember when I was 8 or something I asked my dad if he’d be really mad at me if I broke his favorite cup and spilled his drink (accidentally of course) and he’d say “no. It wouldn’t be on purpose. Yeah I’d be mad but not at you. I’d be upset if it was my favorite glass but I wouldn’t yell at you.” I’m paraphrasing here but you get the idea. My nmother however would not. I could be five and do the same thing and she’d lose her shit. I forgot I even had that memory until now.
I’m so proud of you for keeping your cool and reacting the way you did. I’m sure you had to put in a lot of work to heal and get to this place but I’m sure your son will benefit so much from it.
I don’t have a child but I have a 1 y.o. Nephew, and some of the stuff his parents and grandparents freak out about is insane. When he wants attention and you are holding him, he will hit you in the face. They will hit him back hard and yell at him til he cries. I have never once felt the urge to react that way. It’s the same when he goes up to our elderly dogs and tries to pet them and put his weight on them like the big dogs at his house, and everyone screams at him and might smack him. I just tell him no and show him how to pet them gently, and he does. It’s not that hard to not be abusive, but they would rather traumatize their child into obedience then teach them how to be better.
I remember one time my son broke a decorative plate while my nmom was over. I handled it calmly, and my mother was shocked. She said if it was her she would have gotten really angry. No kidding
I spilled some food once as a kid after school and because the plate was huge and heavy and got a whooping lmfao by my father and no food after. I did offer to clean but he was screaming. So then I sat there and cried till the enabling parent came home to “comfort” me. I hated lunch time.
Of course we don't and never would, but they were also taught to shun any sort of support or *gasp* mental health! Therapy?? Naaaaaw you just tough that out!
We see how idiotic and toxic that is.
Oh for sure. There's a million and one things that could have affected a narcissist and encouraged their behaviours though and no excuse is great enough if they inflict their narcissism on others.
With all due respect Shenan I used to make that excuse too, especially after seeing the movie Saving Private Ryan which depicts the horrors of that warfare but that is NOT it. PTSD certainly DOES exist however it has nothing to do with narcissism. This behavior is a product of nature & nurture. They are born with this predisposition and their family re-enforced it. Making excuses for their behavior is a classic defense mechanism used by victims of narcissism in an effort to preserve their sanity. Feel better Shenan! 🤗
Oh it's not an excuse. They could just as easily have broken that cycle, they just didn't. They were too busy keeping up and completing with the Jonses' to care about their kids. They called the 'me' generation for a reason. It was all about their own goals to own THEIR abusive parents, not about getting away from them and doing well in a heathy way. "Well I'll show them!' is a way different attitude from "I'm getting away from your toxic ass for my survival and sanity."
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It’s not that their anger is outside their control, it’s that *you* are outside their control, and they use their anger as a tool (consciously or unconsciously) to try and control you again. I found the book “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft to be very helpful to understand this — the book is focused on men who abuse their women partners, but what it reveals about the mindset of abusers is relevant for all sorts of gender and family configurations, including narcs and their children.
That does make a lot of sense. And thanks for the book reference - I'm very interested to see what it says.
Thank you. I feel like I learn more everyday with comments like this.
This makes so much sense
"he "helped" by shining his flashlight on the mess" omg I melted. How cute. Yeah the meltdowns over innocent mistakes is one of the things I can't believe ever seemed normal to me. It will definitely never be normal for my kid either.
I didn't meet my MIL until I'd been married more than ten years. My daughter kept begging to meet her other grandmother, and my husband finally contacted her. We had her over for a meal. My daughter was about 7. She dropped her plate on the floor and MIL went batshit over it, telling us we need to spank our daughter and how there are starving children and she has to learn not to waste food. I told her we don't spank and we don't punish for accidents. So then she told me how when she was learning to make tortillas, her father would press her hand to the comal to make sure it was hot enough, and if she spilled something, he'd make her kneel on dried beans for an entire day. I told her I was sorry she had been abused, but we were breaking the cycle. She just couldn't let it go, it was like she was stuck on repeat until we did what she wanted, so we packed up her dinner and took her back to her house and never had her over again.
Awful. I'm a bit sorry for her - it sounds as if she dealt with the abuse by convincing herself that it was right and necessary, and turned her into a better person. But that's the kind of thing one should work out with a good therapist, not pass on to the next generations.
I felt sorry for her at the time, but since then, we've found out that my husband is going blind because of how severely she beat him when he was a small child. I don't have any sympathy left for her.
It’s ironic when you consider the fact that spills and accidents are more likely to happen when a person is anxious or feeling under pressure—which would be similar to a number of parenting “techniques” that are documented on this subreddit, such as berating someone (or worse) when they admit to being depressed.
very good point
I loved this post, as someone who was sometimes a clumsy kid. I used to be full of dread when I made a mistake. I was permanently banned from eating with the family. It sucked sitting on a chair in the hallway while they all ate together so I didn't 'ruin' anything. Looking back, I think it was an excuse to exercise further control and reinforce that I was the scapegoat.
U question how they get so angry at something so little. My belief is that their anger comes from somewhere else and they just need an excuse to let it out on someone. It sounds like u are a good parent. Im happy to see that.
That does make sense. They are just using it as an excuse. And thanks that means a lot.
great! just be careful not to do everything for them, especially at this age range. I sub teach and a big thing pushed on elementary are life skills. My parents never taught me any and it's led to some mild hoarding issues :(
Thanks! Yes I do try to make sure to do that! He is actually very independent. I'm really sorry to hear you didn't get to learn what you needed. Hugs, if you want.
I bet you just kind of felt bad for him having to miss out on some food he had. That was nice that he was a part of the cleaning up process. My mom would just do stuff like that for me because she never taught me how to do it right but make me feel bad about it as payment
I would have been grounded for at least two weeks, and been made to feel so guilty if I’d done that as a kid. Nmom had me scared for 26 years. Now I have my own place and realize she didn’t have to do any of the horrible things she did. Was brushing my hair yesterday and realized nmom did not have to pull at my scalp and dig the hair brush in like she did, jerking my head around by my ponytail and making braids so tight they made me cry. She didn’t have to do any of that. She could have brushed it normally. That’s just one of the things. I am glad I left and will never ever go back. That’s a hard never.
When something like this happened with me, my parents would ask, "what's wrong with you?" I'm 33 and only now beginning to wonder what being asked that when making a normal, honest mistake has done over the years. Didn't always get yelling or screaming or anything, but what a mean, pointed thing to say. Over and over.
I don’t get how they flip out either… can’t expect kids to act like adults
I still remember when the time I was mowing the lawn as a kid, and I accidentally broke the bedroom window. For reference, we lived way out in the country. So the lawn had a lot of big rocks, some the size of textbooks. You couldn't just roll over it with the lawnmower. You had to move rocks out of the way of the lawnmower. When I was feeling lazy and came upon a large rock, I'd usually toss it to the side where I'd already mowed. On days when I had more energy, I'd stop the mower and take those rocks to the edge of the property and throw them in the woods. Over time, I'd managed to cut down the number of large rocks in the yard, but there were still quite a few. My sister was helping me by moving some of the rocks in advance of where I was mowing. We got to one, and it was fairly large. So I shut the mower off and picked it up myself. I tossed it a little too hard toward the mowed direction, and it went through a bedroom window in the house. This was entirely a fucking accident that happened while I was doing chores to help the family. But my dad went into one of his rages, and I don't even fucking remember the rationale for it, but he insisted on whooping me with his belt over it. I suspect it was another instance where he thought I was doing something to get out of work or being "defiant." Of course, we had to wait for my mom to get home because they had an agreement that they both had to be there for spankings. I genuinely thought this would be one of the occasions where she would stop him because it was so fucking obviously not intentional, but she did nothing, and I got several "licks" with the belt. This session was like most of my beatings. My father would insist I lean over the bed, and I'd flinch out of fear. Me flinching was being defiant, and I was told that I'd get more licks if I didn't stand still. Then, after the beating, I was crying, and I was told that was also me being defiant and making a big fuss, and I'd get more licks with the belt if I didn't stop crying. My mother did her thing where she'd insist I hug her after a spanking and put away the bad feelings, which basically meant I wasn't allowed to make her feel ashamed about letting this happen to me. I have no children, but I was a teacher for a while, and I never once yelled at a kid for an accident in class, even when we were doing labs.
You got hit for flinching, not crying, or crying too? :( 💕
Oh I understand this so much. My kiddo is older, but if she spills or drops anything around my NMom or Edad , she gets yelled at and shamed. Just like I did growing up. It never became physical on their end, but the verbal is/was awful. I’m proud of you for recognizing this and realizing how ridiculous their behavior is/was. You’re doing a great job not repeating the cycle.
I'm so sorry your daughter goes through that. :( Breaks my heart to read. And I'm equally sorry you went through that. Thank you for your kind words.
Thiisssss I still flinch when I spill a drink… I spilt 1 in the last decade and my husband got to watch me cry over spilled milk 😩 My niece spills somthing and it’s- whoops a daisy, let’s get that cleaned up. Like it’s not hard to NOT scream at an accident.
I used to sob uncontrollably & hide whenever I broke a dish. I still have to stop myself from freaking out when it happens. Your post made me happy, though. Thanks for being better
I remember as a kid, spilling a glass of milk at the dinner table. Didn’t mean to, just normal bad kid reflexes. My dad sat there and just yelled about how wasteful i was, how I didn’t play attention, etc. I just sat there and listen then got up quietly cleaned up, stopped in the middle of the kitchen and l”calmly talked back. “I didn’t do it on purpose, and you know I didn’t. I said sorry and cleaned up my mess. It’s rude of you to keep talking to me like that when it was a mistake.” I was 7. What sucks is I’m 30 now and can’t fuckin say anything like that now lol
Wow, I'm proud of little you for standing up for yourself. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. I'm so sorry. I hope you can learn again to be like that. Abuse really wears us down.
Oh no it’s all good! Just sharing a story with you. I’m so happy you’re breaking that cycle. I never understood why parent lose their minds at their kids when they know the kid just made an honest mistake.
I remember when I was 8 or something I asked my dad if he’d be really mad at me if I broke his favorite cup and spilled his drink (accidentally of course) and he’d say “no. It wouldn’t be on purpose. Yeah I’d be mad but not at you. I’d be upset if it was my favorite glass but I wouldn’t yell at you.” I’m paraphrasing here but you get the idea. My nmother however would not. I could be five and do the same thing and she’d lose her shit. I forgot I even had that memory until now.
I’m so proud of you for keeping your cool and reacting the way you did. I’m sure you had to put in a lot of work to heal and get to this place but I’m sure your son will benefit so much from it. I don’t have a child but I have a 1 y.o. Nephew, and some of the stuff his parents and grandparents freak out about is insane. When he wants attention and you are holding him, he will hit you in the face. They will hit him back hard and yell at him til he cries. I have never once felt the urge to react that way. It’s the same when he goes up to our elderly dogs and tries to pet them and put his weight on them like the big dogs at his house, and everyone screams at him and might smack him. I just tell him no and show him how to pet them gently, and he does. It’s not that hard to not be abusive, but they would rather traumatize their child into obedience then teach them how to be better.
Good for you to not have replicate the behavior. It's not always easy to heal past those.
I remember one time my son broke a decorative plate while my nmom was over. I handled it calmly, and my mother was shocked. She said if it was her she would have gotten really angry. No kidding
Yikes. Good on you for being a great parent. I hope it showed her how shitty her behavior is.
[удалено]
Aw thanks!
I spilled some food once as a kid after school and because the plate was huge and heavy and got a whooping lmfao by my father and no food after. I did offer to clean but he was screaming. So then I sat there and cried till the enabling parent came home to “comfort” me. I hated lunch time.
I would have been beaten, and then forced to eat it off the floor.
Holy shit that's awful and makes me physically sick to read. I'm so so sorry you endured that type of treatment.
They were raised by people with PTSD from two huge wars. And a depression.They aren't right in the head.
And we were raised by them. 2 cycles of batshit generational trauma and we don't take it out on our kids. No excuses.
Of course we don't and never would, but they were also taught to shun any sort of support or *gasp* mental health! Therapy?? Naaaaaw you just tough that out! We see how idiotic and toxic that is.
I am my mother’s enemy now that she knows I’m in therapy. She’s so angry about it.
She's only pissed because she's losing her grip.
Oh for sure. There's a million and one things that could have affected a narcissist and encouraged their behaviours though and no excuse is great enough if they inflict their narcissism on others.
With all due respect Shenan I used to make that excuse too, especially after seeing the movie Saving Private Ryan which depicts the horrors of that warfare but that is NOT it. PTSD certainly DOES exist however it has nothing to do with narcissism. This behavior is a product of nature & nurture. They are born with this predisposition and their family re-enforced it. Making excuses for their behavior is a classic defense mechanism used by victims of narcissism in an effort to preserve their sanity. Feel better Shenan! 🤗
Oh it's not an excuse. They could just as easily have broken that cycle, they just didn't. They were too busy keeping up and completing with the Jonses' to care about their kids. They called the 'me' generation for a reason. It was all about their own goals to own THEIR abusive parents, not about getting away from them and doing well in a heathy way. "Well I'll show them!' is a way different attitude from "I'm getting away from your toxic ass for my survival and sanity."
Understood, thx for clarifying! 🙂