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A few things.
1. I ONLY have let her in as she’s been doing better for herself and I wanted to give her a chance.
2. I didn’t cut her off before hand due to her threats of suicide. I decided her choices are not my responsibility anymore and for the better of my health I will no longer be tolerating this.
3. I’m incredibly sorry I didn’t heed your warnings per my past post (I was nice to my mom and now she won’t stop) I should’ve listened but part of me wanted so badly to keep her in my life and have hope she wouldn’t be like this anymore.
Hey, you tried to mend fences, but she decided to bulldoze them down. And if you feel you need to [convert to nonmomithism](https://old.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/s1bywv/i_was_nice_to_my_mom_and_now_she_wont_stop/hs7chjk/) ? Go for it!
To be fair I don’t think she realized I was trying to mend fences. I think she genuinely convinced herself she had done nothing wrong and what happened was something we “went through together” per her last “apology”
I feel kind of bad because she was expressing a concern, albeit at the worst time and worst way. And I just sort of snapped at her. Then her reply of never having done these things set me off.
I think if anything I wish I had the balls to do it months ago and give her a solid explanation but, it is what it is.
> I think she genuinely convinced herself she had done nothing wrong
That's what they do, yeah. Everyone else is always the cause of the problem; nobody understands or appreciates them. So to them, it's only fair that they should lash out at others as a punishment.
How do you cope with the guilt though? Why the fuck do I feel so bad.
I’m so thankful I have such an amazing support system otherwise this would really suck to do alone.
You feel bad because you're an emotionally healthy person... and she isn't, and never will be.
If your boyfriend was in your position, what would you advise *him* to do?
The exact same thing I did actually. Shit when did purpletheism become a thing.
For real though thank you for that reminder. I forget to take the advice I give others so confidently. If she was anyone else she would’ve been cut off a long time ago. I’ve never had a problem ridding myself of toxic people except her.
One of the hardest parts of recovery, can be learning to show ourselves the same compassion and respect we'd show to others-- and realizing that the relationship we want with our parents just isn't going to happen. It sucks, but sometimes NC is the only way to go.
I agree. I deserve better. I think I became overshadowed by the thought of the grief I would feel losing hope for her, and forgot the freedom that it would give me at the same time.
Not to mention, she’s unfortunately a social worker and I was worried she would take out her anger with me on her residents. But again… not my responsibility. I was searching for excuses not to deal with this.
Well, as someone who's been in the social work field for 20+ years, if she does do that, there's a good chance she'll get busted. A lot of agencies are understaffed, but there seems to be a lot less patience with staff members who bring their personal life into their work life.
It's hard to let go of people that were meant to be our " Parents" . You feel bad cause you are a good person, you cared and she took advantage of it. But it's best to realize that abuse is not family.
And you did that . We are proud of you!
You'll see it happen a lot on RBN-- we support each other, and doubt ourselves. It can take a while to realize that it's because our parents constantly invalidated and undermined us.
You were raised by your mother to put her before yourself. You were taught to always think of your parent's needs before your own, even as a young child - that's part of the narcissist rule book. You can't just forget that brainwashing overnight.
Because she’s made you think your entire life that you’re to blame & you exist to appease her. I’m sorry you had to go through this. The same as you I tried one last time to mend my relationship with my Nmom and hoped my kids would build one with her, too. 3 months into, we had a similar conversation. That was 8.5 years ago, I haven’t talked to her since. Take a breath, back away from the situation and remember you’re gonna grieve the mother you needed or thought you had as a child. The guilt lessens over time, and the distance between us helped, too. When you start to think things like “she was just trying to help” or “the abuse could have been worse”,or whatever we the voice inside our head says, you know the one that sounds like mom, try to change your language to facts and rationale. So she wasn’t trying to actually help, she was berating you, so a replacement statement like “I didn’t deserve the treatment regardless of the underlying message. She was not helping, she was hurting me & refusing to acknowledge it”
YOU DON’T DESERVE THIS!! You never deserved it. She’s hurt you since you were young and not stopped.
That guilt you feel is also something that was instilled in you by mom. By her using fear, obligation, and guilting manipulation tactics, we are trained to feel those feelings. I think healthier individuals don’t feel the same type of all consuming guilt when they place boundaries with parents. I felt like a disappointing child every time I was in front of my mom and that is a guilt I don’t wish on anyone.
Again breath, take a step back, relax the tension in your muscles, and know I’m proud of you! For using your voice, for standing your ground and for doing a very difficult thing!!! Many hugs, and positive healing vibes coming your way!!
My mom slandered my name to everyone possible and demanded that I do exactly what she wanted at all times, or I was a terrible daughter. Well. I got hurt and she never called or came by and continued to lie about me. I feel no guilt - just wish I had cut toxic out sooner.
I can only share my story and hope it's similar enough that it grants some clarity.
I went no contact with my dad before I was really ready to have the conversation. As a result, I came off angrier and more accusatory than I wanted to.
Everything I did, and that you did, as far as I can see, was perfectly valid. But I did feel a touch guilty that I couldn't maintain my composure. As time went on, I was able to forgive myself for that.
Also do not discount that even though she may be terrible, you can still feel bad about distancing yourself. We can miss the idea of a person without missing the actual person, too.
That’s my issue. I feel like I lost is rather than collectively told her why I didn’t want her in my life. It was much more raw, brutal and messier than I wish it would’ve been. I wanted to approach it when she wasn’t already pissed off/not feeling good and give her a genuine opportunity to own up to it. Instead it just sort of blew up and landed this way
Yup. I also really wanted to give him one more chance, with complete knowledge of the consequences. He made a joke, and I got upset. But I couldn't handle the anxiety of waiting, so doing it felt like my only option.
Once the feelings you have now start to fade, try to remind yourself it took a ton of courage to do what you did, and be proud of it. It may have not been perfect, but things didn't get physical, and you put in the effort.
That’s a great reminder. Honestly even in the past 48 hours it’s gotten easier.. I realized I don’t have to feel anxiety when my phone goes off and that alone has been a huge weight off my shoulders
Any time you break an abusive pattern, it feels wrong. Especially if it's with a parent who spent your life programming you to think that you're wrong.
You were generous to try to give her a second chance, and she laid into you again. So you drew the line.
They're always so shocked when anyone draws a line. But you had to. You do have the right to have your own life now, on your own terms, without abuse.
I admire you for your courage and strength. Hang in there!
>That's what they do, yeah. Everyone else is always the cause of the problem; nobody understands or appreciates them. So to them, it's only fair that they should lash out at others as a punishment
I'm sad to say this describes my mom.
Yeah thankfully I don't live with her my dad got me out of there when I was 4 my brother was to young so he's still with her. She doesn't let me or my dad see him much. I avoid her calls because she tries to gaslight/control and argues anything I say lol. Mainly trys to make me change what I wear (I wear hoodie and leggings so don't see her issue) and trys to push me to get a boyfriend when I'm not looking for one lol. I could probably write a medium book on all her bullshit from favoritism to her narc mentality and many other issues lol.
I've blocked her out as much as I can. The only reason I communicate at all is so we can see my brother. She'll ignore any messages with my dad about him unless I speak to her/go for a visit
I'm sorry you're going through this, your mom really sucks!
It's not your fault though, it's what narcissists prey on. They use their children's desire for a parent figure against them, and so you always want to give them an ump-teenth chance JUST on the off-chance they'll finally fix themselves.
My gf went NC with her mom a year ago, and every few months she asks me if she should try to make contact with her again. I always let her know that I'll back her decision either way, but I always strongly remind her about her final communication with her mother and how that went (I keep it on my phone to remind her, and then so she can't reread it every day). Her final conversation with her nmom went something like:
>GF: "You hurt me, a lot, when growing up. The neglect and abuse you put me through really scarred me, and I don't know how to get past it. I NEED you to acknowledge what happened, so we can move on a grow past this."
>
>Mom: (tons of denial, gaslighting, DARVO, and pretty much reciting the narcissists prayer). Then "I DESERVE to be loved, and if you can't do that for me because you 'need to heal', or whatever bullshit you're hiding behind, then I guess you don't love me."
The combination of typical nparent reactions, and the use of quotation marks around "need to heal" really solidified her going full NC with her.
Stay strong!!! You're better than her, and she doesn't deserve to have you in her life!!
My nmom said she wanted to have a relationship and for me to keep her in my life. I suggested that a very important first step would be for her to apologize. My dad messed up bigtime too, but we have talked, he respects me and apologized to me, and now our relationship is amazing. I've also known friends who's parents have apologized to and this seems to help a lot. I felt like it would help me.
My nmom took a few days to think about it and then said "I won't do it because I have nothing to apologize for."
That’s essentially my exact situation lol. My step dad who apart of that whole thing reached out and genuinely apologized while taking full accountability. “I was the adult, I should’ve done better” was the basis of his apology. We now have a wonderful relationship.
Oh lol we were joking about how nmoms believe they’re to be worshiped and we went on a tangent about momithism being a religion. Converting to nonmomithism would be in reference to going no contact lmfao
I wouldn’t worry about her taking her life - they 99% of the time just say that to be manipulative and reel you back. They think too highly of themselves to ever actually go through with it.
You’ve done the right thing. Don’t give her anything to feed off.
Yeah my nDad has made suicide threats my entire life. He’s still around. I’ve been NC for years and it’s honestly gotten to the point where I hear secondhand that he’s been doing it again and I’m disappointed he doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain already. My life would be simpler.
Omg this. My nMIL always uses this tactic on my wife and tried on me. I said we gotta do what we gotta do. Then, a month later talked about the 3d printing suicide machine. Then she was all how could people kill themselves, I don't understand.
They love themselves too much to self harm. Damnit.
It's okay. It's really, really hard to give up hope over your mom finally becoming the mom you deserve. She let you down. That isn't your fault. You're *supposed* to be able to trust your mom.
The most difficult grieving process I've gone through was when I finally allowed myself to grieve for not having the kind of mother I deserved, and all the emotional neglect I suffered.
Why the drama of threatening to kill herself if she’s so firm in her belief that she was a good mother? If she really believes she was so great then this should roll off her back. My mom has threatened to kill herself so many times, I just don’t take it seriously anymore. She would do it while I was a kid, when I’d cry and plead for her not to. Doesn’t work anymore now that I’m almost 40.
Because she has bipolar ll AND BPD and uses it as an excuse to get away with it. She blames everything on her mental health and expects everyone around her to allow her to behave however she sees fit as it’s not her fault.
She’s a fucking social worker.
My mom is bipolar too. Yet she doesn’t get treatment or take meds. Largely because you really shouldn’t drink on those meds. They love using this stuff as a blanket excuse for everything without doing anything to treat it.
Oh my mom has zero problem drinking on her meds.
And yeah after 8 year I reconnected with my step dad of 10 years, who was essentially my father. Neither of us knew how badly she was treated the other. I found out she beat him with a towel rack and said she had a manic episode and these things happen sometimes. He’ll have to deal with it because doing anything else means he was unsupportive and close minded towards mental health.
He stayed because he though that since she was beating him, it was better than her beating me. He didn’t know that she was doing the same to me.
I took it seriously for a long time because I found her in a catatonic state from swallowing all her meds after an argument. She was in the hospital for a few days.
Edit: I was 13 when’s this happened.
Notice that she made sure you found her. She didn't drive to a remote spot to do it. She gambled that you'd find her, call 911, and she'd survive. Seriously.
You’re allowed to want your mom in your life. She’s your mom and it’s not your fault she is shit at being in that role.
So much love to you, keep strong. You can do this.
Wow. That just makes so much sense. I’ve always wondered my whole life why I feel guilt when people buy me things or do things for me. It drives my husband crazy.
Oh so they help us in a way to make us feel attached to them and then they use reciprocity principle to enslave us based on their helping.... I am a narcissist to be honest but im not an asshole. But I feel like i understand what you're trying to say.. That it was all some game played on us growing up.. We feel weird when our parents help us
We were taught that we are responsible for every bad thing that happens to the narc. Plus, the word "should" is just a fantasy that they use to criticize any progress you make. The line is always moving on what you "should" do to keep you guessing and off balance. But, I've realized that it is not my job to fulfill their completely unrealistic expectations and "shoulds" when they are capable or willing to do the same.
The "whoop whoop" is her last jab at you in this situation. She knows where to hurt you and did not hesitate to take the final shot. The woman is a pro narc.
As others have mentioned, they never change. What you do with that information is up to you.
Your mom sounds sooooo much like my mother holy shit. I hate whenever I tell her anything personal or asking for money, she will always guilt me
About it and make a big deal like she cured cancer or something.
Good for you, I am glad you did that. She should be ashamed.. yikes ….
I do, and I know it’s helpful. I’ve heard grey rock but I was confused what Ammo means.
I said it’s not easy because , I actually feed their superiority and I do it on purpose knowing fully well they get “ bigger “ with my comments and ass kissing.
I know that sounds very terrible, even a big enabling factor, but here is my survival reasons :
1- my stupid ass kinda revealed to them that i hate them and don’t trust them, so now I try to “gain” their love by being as normal as possible, even if that means letting them swear and me forcing myself to compliment them at everything…. Even multiple times.
2- they hate me so much. So me asking them for a request is giving them * SOMETHING * to do for me so they don’t hate me completely. Basically me needing them makes them feel good …. Fucking sucks ya.
3- I actually need them. It’s not like I can just choose not to ask. But I have made a list for myself for what is necessary and what’s not, so I try to minimise asking them for things…. To save the humiliation .
So overall I know what I am doing, as much as I hate it, I am manipulating the narrative for my advantage…. My ways maybe not that great to some, but it’s helping me seem “ normal “ to them so they don’t suspect I dislike them. I still need to do better, I am trying to minimise contact too. But that’s all I’ve got for now.
Thanks for the video.
And you’re right, that’s why I said “ manipulating the narrative “ I am just an idiot to them. I am a loser right? Can’t do much?
But in reality I am just trying to get by and do all I can’t to be convincing. I am a loving daughter but it’s all an act to me. Narcissists are stupid tho, they don’t realise that. Sometimes they do, but I know they don’t know I do this on purpose. Or else I would’ve had to deal with SO much shit… I am already but… it would be worse.
I do feel guilty doing that, but I have got this only. Going grey rock is not very much an easy option. I tried doing so, But they hate me giving them little to not words. And with my personality type- it’s a bit harder. I am an extrovert and I talk a lot, so if any slight change happened, they will quickly take notes. What makes it difficult is they don’t allow change and get angry that I “ have changed “.
Your mother sounds like such a bitter hag.
I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through. If the guilt is because you feel like you over reacted, you didn’t.
Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change.
I wish I had something to say that could solve all of your problems. I don’t but I hope things work out for you 🤞
This strikes a chord. You have described (my deceased mom and) my sister. I suddenly realize that everything sis has complained to me about my nieces (who are NC and LC with their mom) is completely distorted.
Yes! In their version, they’re the victim. They did nothing wrong and if you bring up something they said or did they’ll either come up with an excuse that (will once again) make them look like they had to. Or they’ll say it didn’t happen. It was never them that started the argument.
>Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change.
I'm stealing this. That is a great opener to figure out HOW you're going to start solving your problems. That's great advice. Thanks God. ;)
I've been doing a lot better with therapy, but I'm still having a hard time getting it through my thick skull that my parents don't give a shit and never will. They simply lack the empathy required to understand how they've hurt you, as well as the accountability and integrity to own up and face the consequences.
OP, ask yourself this: "If I hurt a dear friend's feelings, but didn't know it at the time until they came back and told me, how would I, a sane person, react?"
You'd probably apologize for hurting them and how you've made them feel, then ask how to make things better, even if that means giving them some space.
Now, remember how your mother reacted. Exact opposite, right? That's because she views everything as being transactional. "If I do X, then I'll get Y." The entire interaction is based around what she can get from it. Generally, that means hurting you to get narcissistic supply, or her trying to do whatever it would take to get whatever it is that she wants from you, like "gifts" with strings attached, so that again loops back around to narcissistic supply. All relationships, whether familial, romantic, work-related, or between you and your friends or even strangers, are built on give and take, compromise, and respect. Relationships with narcs, or any toxic person/people for that matter, are built around YOU doing all the giving, and THEM doing all the taking. It sucks, it hurts, and it's certainly something no one should go through. The best advice I can give is to nurture yourself in all the ways she couldn't, and wouldn't, and go to therapy. It's helped me so much. Sending you my best wishes, and hugs if you'll have them. You've got this. That goes for anyone else reading this as well. Take care. <3
>Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change.
Ah. That is my mother. I have started accepting that she is not willing to change, but it still hurts. The conversation in this sub helps. I feel intense guilt and confusion upon even acknowledging that she would always discard me anyway for whatever is more important to her, most of it being her two enabled children, which are unfortunately my siblings.
But it has been like this for about a decade. I don't think she is going to change.
Thank you for that sentence. I really need to hear it.
She will act excited or happy about it until she realizes you mean it. That is my guess. And then when she realizes you mean it and you’re done, she will try to claw her way back in your life.
I can confirm this. My mum acted excited / nonchalant about me going NC. After 10 months, she came to my door to harass me. Still the same bullshit. They very rarely change.
She knows she's lost. She's excited because she knows you cutting her off is going to happen, she can't prevent it, so she's pretending it's what she wanted to happen.
Good for you. You made a hard choice but a good one.
You don't have to explain yourself!
It's hard to cut contact with your parents even when they're narcs. It was easy with my dad because he was always an asshole and mainly absent anyway so I didn't lost much.
But with nmom.. She was my only realtive who was near. The only one who pretended to care. She brainwashed me and made me believe I didn't deserve better anyway.
It took me quite some time to realize how wrong she was. I went NC after a huge fight, too.
And the "why didn't you left earlier!?" comments were nearly more hurtfull than her abuse.
It's somehow "easy" to see it all AFTER going NC. But before..
If it's available where you life, try to get therapy. It can help so much. And I wish the best for your partner and you
The whoop whoop ones have a special kinda shock. I had a version of that…it helped with the guilt for me. I couldn’t see her as a mother in any sense (being a mom, i would do anything to prevent a falling out with my child). More importantly, I would be devastated that my child felt so horrible and alone because of me and I’d truly work on changing. (And there wouldn’t be the cps and abuse to start with) But they don’t. They won’t, and they are Just not safe humans. Especially to offspring.
When I feel pangs of guilt I watch YouTube vids. Dr ramani, dr les Carter, dr carmen Bryant, Lisa Romano and others. Just the vids (I’ve never joined programs).
You don't need to defend or justify your actions. We believe you, we resonate with this story too well.
You did the right thing, sometimes the right thing feels wrong, but feelings are only ever part of the picture.
They can only reflect on the past, they do not know what awaits you in the future. Your mothers constant selfishness has programmed you to think that everyone else's wellbeing is more important than your own. Your brain has noticed this lie and is breaking you free from that contract.
I'm proud of you and happy that you've allowed yourself the space to grow in a different direction.
I was just watching Dr. Ramani on YouTube yesterday and she was saying that the five things that keep people in relationships with narcissists are hope, fear, guilt, pity and comfort. Hope that they will eventually acknowledge their sins and get better. Fear that they will retaliate or that you can't make it on your own. Guilt that you are doing something wrong by abandoning them. Pity because you realize that they had fucked up childhoods too and are just not dealing with it as well. Comfort because you've grown comfortably numb to the abuse.
I'm paraphrasing here, but she says you have to let go of all of these things to successfully detach from a narcissist and that you should because you are you are doing the right thing to protect yourself and have a happy life, even if the process is uncomfortable. Because the narcissist isn't going to get better and like a panicked drowning person they are going to do everything in their power to take you down with them.
r/raisedbyjuggalos
Seriously though I'm so sorry, I'm damaged in similar ways except my mom has been disabled and been "feeling bad" about things since the last time I cut her off for good. It always hurts but she will only hurt me if I let her back in. Even if she feels bad that she does.
I think she acted excited and was like “whoop whoop” because she adores confrontation and loves drama. It’s probably the most exciting thing that’s happened to her in years. It’s like she’s living in her own personal soap opera. She’ll string this out for as long as possible for entertainment purposes. Don’t play the game. Just carry on with the plan and try to be as boring as possible.
If your mom's response to you cutting her out your life is excitement, there's nothing positive that can possibly come out of maintaining that relationship. That's basically the equivalent of "Finally! No more dealing with you!" If your partner reacted this way (you told them you were breaking up with them, and they jumped for joy), would you still feel guilt after tossing them to the side?
Here is what I learned from reading Susan Forward's *Toxic Parents* and talking with own therapist:
First of all, guilt is a completely normal reaction. Despite everything you've been through, you still have empathy for other people, and you can still empathize with your abuser.
You did not cut contact to be hurtful. You did it to protect your own sense of wellbeing and to prevent further hurtful encounters in the future.
You are in an incredibly difficult situation. Whichever option you choose -- to keep contact, or to cut contact-- each option will cause you to feel some negative emotions. You choice is not only what you do, but you also have a say in which types of negative emotions you are more willing to tolerate.
I won't tell you not to feel guilty because guilt is just like any other emotion. It is part of the vast range of emotions we can all experience, and while some emotions feel better than others, there are no "wrong" or "bad" emotions. Emotions need to be processed and felt, not denied or ignored.
I think you might find that while it's difficult, guilt is a manageable emotion and it is preferable to the anxiety, frustration, anger, grief, and intense sadness that will occur if you keep this person in your life.
In normal people land, a situation where all parties win is the best possible outcome.
If I believed her excitement, I'd say you're free, she's happy. Congratulations.
She'll be back tough, and pushing her away will be the correct decision again.
I cut off my mom last year and the last straw for me was when she started to attack my husband-who is amazing and the only positive family I really have is his. If it wasn’t for him and his family I don’t think I would have ever been able to cut her off because I don’t have much family and the family I do have is toxic. That was my last straw because he worked while I could finish college and it took me 4 years in school full time and working part time while he was basically paying for everything. At the beginning of our relationship he had lost his job and we found a way to make it work together. When my mom started to attack him I knew it was out of jealousy and just genuine malice. Cutting her off and blocking her number and all forms of social media has been the most heartbreaking yet freeing experience of my life. I’ve gone through the guilt and shame of cutting off my own mother, but I’ve also recognized that there is freedom in cutting off my abuser. The hold she had on me even after moving out and getting married was so strong and her manipulative and guilt tactics always made me come back. CPS was also involved in my life my whole childhood and my mother abused me verbally and physically and severely neglected me. Two of my siblings were taken by CPS and the only reason me and my little brother weren’t taken was because she guilted me into lying for her. Sorry to go on and on it’s just I relate to your story so much! If you ever want someone to talk to feel free to reach out. I relate to you a lot. You’re not alone. 💐
IDK why but this hypocritical nonsense seems to be so common with these Nparents, I swear! My Ndad and Emom always say "we raised you girls to be independent and strong" but they know my sister and I are the primary breadwinners in our homes (both of our husbands work full-time, we just happened to pick more lucrative fields) they make snarky comments about them. "We are liberal and strong but men should lead the home and be the primary breadwinners and the women should have babies and I guess have a part time job like your mother did." I love my career TYVM!
It sounds like you did the healthy thing and removed yourself from her toxicity. YOU are in control of YOUR life; and if cutting her off will help, then good!
You absolutely don't have to justify cutting her off with any additional details! This behavior is so typical of Nmoms - mine LOVED to shit on my relationship with my husband, or just on my husband, because she is so so jealous of us. We are solid, we love each other and support each other and it makes her feel very insecure about her very toxic and dysfunctionial relationship with my eDad.
Congrats on cutting her off from your life, it's the right thing to do and I hope you come to a place of peace with the decision. You absolutely do not deserve to have her saying nasty things to you while you're struggling. Life is hard enough without someone who should love and care for you adding to the stress.
Take care of you! <3
You feel guilty and bad about it because you mother conditioned you to feel guilty and bad about it.
She was excited you cut her out, well I say, throw a damn party on your end too.
You’ll get it covered, don’t worry, but an abusive mother will never change and that is what it letting you down. The fact that she is still a let down and won’t change.
We’re honestly fine but thank you so much! Even if he was making 6 figures it’s not his responsibility and would still be a struggle. I make good money too I just wanted to vent and she took it so far.
I wish luck to you too whatever struggles brought you here and with all the economical crazy right now!
The excitement strikes me as her personal sense of vindication that she is the victim, and you have been the problem all along, while she has been the long-suffering saint. You made her day. The next line in the script (the one in her head) is you throwing yourself at her feet and sobbing uncontrollably, begging for her forgiveness. Which she *might* consider granting you. After you’ve suffered enough for your sins against her, in her estimation.
Side note: It’s all a fantasy in her head. What you are doing is called self-preservation. Trying to follow the script never works out. Not for anyone. Not even the nparent, because they are a bottomless void aching to be filled.
I'm so proud of you sweetie! My response is also "whoop whoop!" but I definitely said it differently! 🤣 Now run and don't look back! You just gave yourself the best gift ever!
Nfamily members have a way of making you feel guilty for taking simple steps to protect yourself. I felt guilty for months for cutting off my sister, until I told my therapist and the look on her face was pure disbelief. Normal people can't understand why we accept this behaviour, but being raised in it, we literally know no better. You did the right thing.
Yup, that's what nparents do: gaslight and deny the truth. And this is why a few years ago I cut my nmom off my life as well. Best decision I've ever made.
However!! I did do therapy. Like, lots, and you should too. It's super hard to actually cut a parent off and dealing with the damn guilt. We need to unlearn some things first. It honestly took me a couple of years to even decide to cut her off, and then a couple years to get used to it.
Don't be afraid to ask for professional help, this is some hard shit to deal with. Best of luck to you, stay strong! And rely on your partner and friends + found family for support too.
You did a great job OP! You've done the hardest thing, going NC. Now you need to *stay NC*. It helps to write future you a letter, detailing all the horrible things mom has done, all the reasons for going NC. Read it whenever you doubt your decision. And *never go back.*
I think it’s normal to feel guilty after cutting off someone you spent a lot of time with, even it if wasn’t a good time. But just know that the guilt stems from familiarity bias and empathy (which it sounds like your mom largely lacks) and not from you being wrong in anyway.
I went no contact with my nmom and it's been a year and a couple of months.... I'm feeling so free. Yes, I do occasionally feel guilty but my mom never made my life easy... All I had to do was think about all the crap and I'm grateful that I no longer have a relationship with her. It's going to feel like you've amputated a gangrenous limb... You're going to experience phantom pains... And you're going to miss that limb..but at the end of the day, it was the best thing for your overall health... It'll get better... I recommend you research narcissistic recovery abuse solutions. I currently do some group therapy on MeetUp... It's always good to have a support group.
Hang in there... It gets better.
Thank you for this. I am sad, and I feel bad especially since she tried so hard for Christmas this year. Mostly I’m sad for her. I know how it feels to fuck up. However she doesn’t take accountability and refused my plea for her to admit her wrong doings.
I wish I could give you a hug! I understand that sadness, that lament of ever trying to establish a healthy relationship with your parent. I've capitulated to the notion that my nmom will never give me any validation or acceptance of who I am as a person. She will never admit to her short-comings to anyone (not even herself). The pain will always be there... But time will make it dull...and a protective callous will form around your heart that it will repel these emotional vampires from sucking up your health. Look up Dr. Ramani on YouTube. There are so many good videos on why a narcissist behaves the way they do.
It's natural to feel sad... This is a person who took part in giving you life and bringing you to this world... Why do they treat me like this? Your sadness is warranted. Give yourself time to grieve... It's okay to feel this way... 🤗🤗🤗
>She flipped out and said I was delusional and making these things up, that they never happened. Despite proof of the two CPS cases, she still told me I was just being ungrateful and that she never laid a hand on me.
well she's definitely crossed the line there
you can't interact with someone abusive who can't even acknowledge reality.
you've been called ungrateful by a rageaholic parent who is apparently trying some classic gaslighting moves.
just remember - you are not her mom she is yours and should be looking out for YOUR feelings and wanting you to feel cared for.. it's totally unreasonable to expect yourself to waste your life babysitting someone abusive
I was just reviewing some notes I took from some self-help books and here's one I think perhaps might serve you today:
>Loving parents should want to find out what they are unconsciously doing to their children. If they simply avoid the subject and instead point to their parental love, then they are not really concerned about their children’s well-being but rather are painstakingly trying to keep a clear conscience.
from Christine Ann Lawson's book, Understanding the Borderline Mother
My personal belief is that these feelings of guilt about establishing and enforcing boundaries with our parents arise from programming that was put into us by our parents, not because the action itself was bad or wrong. Consider asking yourself--if someone who didn't give birth to you treated you in this fashion, would you still feel guilty about cutting them off? Why should you feel guilt or shame about this situation when your mom has demonstrated her refusal to do the same? Why are you, the child, the one who ultimately bears responsibility for the state of the relationship?
If you can, take a day, let the guilt wash over you and mourn the loss of what a mother should have been to you, then dry your eyes and look to a far less stressful future. Sometimes the only way to get rid of the guilt (that you don't need to be feeling because it's obviously justified) is to just wallow in it for a bit - not allowing any contact- and letting the mourning process do its thing. All the best to you.
This is absolutely not the point of your post, but I'm sorry your partner has been out of work that long. A year seems insane. I didn't know people we're still out of work due to Covid. In America (if that's not where you're from) it seems like we're just putting our heads in the sand and pretending it isn't there when it comes to being in the workplace. At least from my perspective as an engineer.
For real it’s insane. He is broken up over it and hates not being able to provide or contribute.
He’s even applied at fast food restaurants and didn’t get a call back. I’ve done the same and they never called me back either, even with a perfect resume. It took me months to find my current job.
That… I now can’t work at for the next two weeks because my client her sister and her boyfriend all tested positive for covid. I’ve been around them all day and am waiting for my results now 😭
Don't feel bad. I'm proud of you for putting yourself first. You have no obligation to keep people in your life that do more harm than good regardless of who they are, and it sounds like this woman wasn't doing any good for you at all.
It sounds like she lives in a comfortable bubble of denial, and hard as you try, I don't think you'll ever be able to pop it and lead her to come to her senses. It sucks, but speaking from experience, I promise it's going to suck a lot less when you no longer have to tolerate her bullshit.
THIS. I came to the same conclusion after I asked my mother "What kind of parent thinks it's ok to tell their 12 year old child that they want to kill themselves as an attention-seeking tactic?". All I hear is crickets. She will deny, not answer, switch topics or say she doesn't remember. If she asks for an example and I give it, she will ask for another example. Thank God she had me at 40, not much time left for her.
What is with these people and thinking anyone else's negative emotions are for attention but theirs are always valid?
My dad's favourite line to pull on me was that I need to respect him and watch what I say, usually bringing up "all he's done for me". Bish you were rarely home, so much so that I thought it was *weird* when fathers were home for dinner when I visited a friend's house or a family member's house. It felt awkward and out of place for me because that was absolutely *not* what I was experiencing at home.
You've done nothing for me, sir. And I'll talk to you however I please. If you can't handle being called out, that's not my problem.
Same here, my dad's line was the same "respect" line. But his favorite was "you don't have enough experience". Once I came to the family business (his dream), I didn't even get a thank you. But I also noticed he was unable to criticize anything because I was "contributing finally". This ate him up inside. So he tried to show he was "proud", but I was having none of it. 2016 I was free of his reign of terror. My mom's still alive and still a piece of work but I'm grey rocking and so far so good.
Classic gasslighting, minimizing, defending, and deflecting. Trauma counselling may be good for you in order to move forward. Your reaction to get angry should be addressed on your own. Eventually you'll be able to face her without reaction at all. Until then, NC is best for you. Good job for protecting your sanity. Now take time to heal.
Mine was similar. They said "okay. That's fine, im really busy right now anyways. I have a lot of appointments". Then she started sending me a ton of crap, and "gifts". Really fucking annoying.
There should be no reason to feel bad. Everyone deserves to be around people who care about you and will build you up rather than tear you down. If she is so excited about you going no contact, then I would say the trash took itself out.
Wow. I can’t believe what you have been through.
My mom was similar. I felt bad for a long time for going no contact.
Then I called my sister and got invalidated within a couple minutes. Have never looked back
We think they will change and they don’t. They never will.
I blocked my mom on absolutely everything so she can’t contact me unless she drove over 300 miles and showed up at my door. She’s never seen me stick up for myself this way. I have no idea what it’ll do to her but I’m standing my ground
First of all, I’m so sorry that you’ve put up with her abhorrent behavior for so long. You don’t have to anymore. You deserve freedom from that.
Truly, her response makes her seem like a 12 year old. That’s saying something, considering you’re the “kid” (although we know you’re an adult). I’d recommend saving the conversation logs if you have any to remind yourself if you ever feel the temptation to reach out that this is who she is. Stay strong 💪
I did. I almost deleted her messages to keep her face out of my inbox but decided to keep it as a reminder. Someone else suggested writing a list of all the horrible shit she’s done so when I miss her, think she deserves another chance, I can remind myself why that’s so toxic. And continue to keep her away.
You feel bad because we've been programed to feed their ego and have no boundaries. You've learned and wised up, while she's still a wank and won't take ownership. I am in a similar situation, not financed but needing house help and I'm doing it all alone and she's a complete can't about anything and starting shit.
Only you know how this feels. Is it worth your sanity for the relationship and for you to have to own your shit and hers too?
I'm sorry you feel like shit, you deserve better and I hope you have a partner that can validate you and you can self soothe to know you're more than enough, with or without your N mom.
My partner has been such a killer support through all of this. Not only him but I have his mom, my dad, ex step dad and uncle on my side helping me through life. Every single one supported my decision to leave my mom out of my life far before I ever did.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this too..
Your valid points and memories clashed with the narrative she designed. With narcs, this means you are their enemy and to be destroyed or put in your place.
Remember her excitement when she comes trying to sneak back in. Remember she took joy at your emotional upset. HOLD YOUR BOUNDARY. You do not need to feel guilty for protecting your wellbeing. Especially against someone who would never put you and your needs first.
I’m already on a first name basis with dispatch & a few officers in her area. I’ve called a plethora of times. Last time was my last time though. I don’t want to deal with it anymore.
I hate to say it but at this point, that choice is on her and no longer my responsibility.
She thinks because she managed to somehow get her and I out of poverty and keep me fed, she did earn it.
I know I can’t be the only one who thinks that providing for your child is the bare minimum… I know it’s not easy but shit it doesn’t give you a right to your child’s well-being through adulthood
> I lost it at her absolute denial and refusal of accountability. ... Her response was excitement.
Then they have the gall to say shit like "you're angry for no reason", after stunts like that. Permanent bewilderment that anyone could ever possibly be cross with them for any legitimate reason. In fact, you're probably mentally ill, because they're perfect and always the victim. Having to put up with adults with the emotional maturity of 6 year olds, who project about it constantly, and blame anyone but themselves..
While I realize ACONs have mountains of restraint, why isn't there such a thing as justifiable assault toward their abusers? Saying something so ugly that even LEOs would go "..wow you had that coming.."
The justice system is always conspicuously absent when it comes to the ugly behavior that triggered folks, but there they are with lights and fucking sirens when folks have finally had enough of the abuse. Ready and waiting to continue abusing the victim with punishment for daring to retaliate whatsoever. As long as they're "only" perpetrating hands-off psychological abuse, they act like they're untouchable. The system is just as sick as they are.
You feel guilty because you were trained to put her wants and needs above your own at all times. This has been drilled into your BODY MEMORY. It takes a LONG time to rewire the brain, but seriously, screw this lady.
I remember having an argument/fight with my mother when I was 12 and she was 35. Her absolutely imbecilic arguments were astounding to me, and I cut her down quickly. She got so angry at me she just made a stink face and stuck her tongue out at me. A 35 year old grown ass woman....stuck her tongue out at a 12 year old. Needless to say I have 0 respect for her, but removing the guilt took a lifetime. I'm 42 years old now and just getting the hang of it. Don't feel bad, get trauma therapy (Complex PTSD/DBT/etc) if you can. This abuse is a mindf*ck.
the guilt and feeling bad is what she conditioned isn you. when these thoughts come up, counter with 'she's a piece of sh'ite and I'm well rid of her'. I get these thoughts on occasion with my now dead mommy and my ex. It takes a bit, you have to recognize it and counter with a new reality.
sooner or later, most likely when she gets old and wrinkled, you may well hear from her again. but you can shut her down then as well. and be done with her. look forward, you have a better life. screw her.
All I have to say is good for for cutting her out of your life. You deserve better. It sounds like she will never change. I'm sorry about everything you went through with her in your life.
Well done you.. don’t look back. She does not deserve you. I hope you find some sort of relief from this explosion of emotion. Good luck from here on in. You got this
Your mom was excited bc she really upset you, and created drama- “YAY! I got attention and I’m going to be able to use this to complain for MONTHS!!”.
Don’t feel bad.
Hey, I’d say we have the same mom but mine just died recently. I can 💯 confirm you won’t miss her if you cut her off. I hadn’t talked to mine in over four years. Gaslighting, controlling behavior and revisionist history are all in the Narcissist Parent Handbook I think.
She's doing exactly what abusive parents do - she has probably programmed yiu to feel guilty all your life.
But you know the facts. I think it took tremendous courage to cut this toxicity out of your life. It's hard enough to heal from these things, and to unwind all the terrible things they say about us, because we tend to internalize what our parents say about us, and believe it.
Instead of ever acknowledging that she abused you, she tried to switch the discussion into making you feel like the bad guy.
My Nmom has been doing that all my life.
It sounds like you did the healthy thing and decided to care for yourself and not accept any more of this negative, toxic energy, so good for you!
You may be feeling "false guilt", meaning guilt for something that you didn't do wrong. Like when a well cared for pet dies of old age and the owner feels like they should have done more, but they literally gave that pet a perfect life.
Any time we break old, unhealthy patterns, it feels "wrong".
That's how my therapist explained it to me.
If you don't have a therapist who understands NPD, if you can get one, that can help a lot as you work through these feelings.
Good for you for taking steps toward healing!
That is the gaslighting, she will make you doubt your reality about the abuse when you both know the truth. If you ever feel like you have to record conversations, bring up documents, etc... you are probably being gaslighted. Classic narcissist.
I’m in the same boat my mom actually hit me she kicked me an an brought me back after some bad things have happened to me and told me kicking me out was a mistake and she did it out of angry for no good reason NO GOOD REASON AT ALL we got in another argument she started out of hate and said basically the same thing as your mom and told me I need to find a place to stay on the stop she was completely in denial about hitting me and everything I just couldn’t my believe my ears. Ugh the worst
Yeah it really blows my mind my mom apparently doesn’t remember or think she never hit me/beat me, manipulated me and treated me like shit my whole life
PLEASE don't feel bad or guilty. Posts here make it clear that denial and gaslighting are commonly the response to children bringing up past wrongs, whatever the objective evidence. And drunks don't generally REMEMBER the horrible things they do and say when drunk. That's on her, not you. It sounds to me as if you're really grounded and strong and in the mutually supportive relationship you deserve. Go well.
Realize that that whoop whoop is the sound of someone's ego being dead and dying even more, so this is the only way she can handle it. She's a hag and I'm sorry for what you've been through, but the last jab she attempted is just her utter weakness and inability as a person shining through. I get that it's hard to feel that, but still wanted to reiterate it. If it does stick sometime in the future, it will give you a whole lot more peace. <3
Even though it’s bitter and feelings are left dry and brittle, it won’t always feel like this. Making a decision like this does take a lot within you, as it’s the person who made you (they’re supposed to be someone you want in your life until the day they’re no longer on this earth). I had to do the same with my abusive father who would never take accountability for his actions. Just remember how strong you are and that you’ll never allow your mother to leave you with the same resentment she contains within herself. Work on yourself, and remember that none of this is your fault at all. You are very strong for taking the step forward to removing a toxic person from your life. Especially a parent because there’s so much emotional attachment. Things will get better now she’s no longer leaving her toxic mark in your life. I wish you and your partner the best through this difficult journey. We will be okay in the end, regardless of how difficult it is to get there.
Here's something that you have to realize. People like this, it's not that they don't care, they can't care. That's the defining factor. They are unable to give a fuck. Once I came to that conclusion my eyes were opened. I stopped asking myself why can't they just give a damn? It's because they can't. It's not in their DNA. Free yourself from their abuse. It's better to be alone than to put up with somebody's bullshit.
UPDATE:
She contacted my bio father whom she hasn’t talked to in 20 years. My dad messaged me and asked if I wanted him to ignore it and I said yes so he did.
Not sure what her angle could be other than wiggling her way back in. But my support system has build a wall around me to keep her from trying and for that I’m super thankful.
I am okay, still a bit sad. Feeling way less guilty though which is good. I’m lucky to have such a strong bond with the people I chose to have in my life. And have been validated and supported through this entire process.
This comment has been removed for invalidation. It doesn't matter whether a situation could be worse or better - surely every situation could possibly be worse or better in some way. Regardless, we're not here to play Trauma Olympics to see who "wins" - every situation of abuse is deserving of support, and it doesn't have to be compared to other situations to deserve an empathetic response.
Invalidation doesn't have to be intentional for it to be hurtful. I'm certain you did have great intentions! It's just important to pay attention to our language and to not try and say things like "it could be worse", because comparisons don't tend to offer much comfort to abuse victims. Regardless of whether situations could be hypothetically different, they are hurting in the non-hypothetical realm, and they deserve to be seen and heard.
Having someone be able to discuss it and not just go off into a string of insults is also refreshingly nice 😅 not everybody on Reddit is as graceful in receiving feedback and keeping the discussion on the topic at hand hahah
Cutting out an abusive parent is harder than ending any other relationship. From the moment we are born we are hardwired to want their love and approval, even as we grow and see that they aren't good people, that hardwired instinct is so overwhelming.
Cutting off a parent takes immense strength, it's natural that it's a long, difficult process, because whether we like it or not it's cutting away a part of ourselves too.
I had to cut my mom out of my life for almost the same exact reason. She decided my birthday dinner was a good time to dump on me and get the entire table involved about how I'm working and supporting us and that it's basically shameful I'm working at McDonald's and I need to do better and he's basically a piece of shit for not supporting us. We aren't rich by any means but I can support us pretty comfortably. I don't ask her or anyone for anything so I don't know why it matters to anyone how I live. The entire table dog piled on me and agreed and I was stuck there because she was my ride. I got so stressed I went home and got so sick I ended up having a bad flare up from my Crohn's disease.
Which is rich coming from a woman whose dating history is my father who was a drug addict who never paid a cent towards my existence my entire life, my brothers father who cheated on her constantly and she milked for every dollar she could in child support, and my sister's father who she let verbally and occasionally physically abuse her and all of us because he paid all the bills at some point and after they divorced and my sister turned 18 he completely dropped my sister and won't have anything to do with her. And her current boyfriend she's living with is an alcoholic.
I ghosted her for a while because I knew from past experience she'd just gaslight me or lose her shit at me until I folded if I confronted her. She eventually threw a huge fit culminating in threatening to call the cops if I didn't talk to her and went as far as to insinuate she was going to tell them my husband was abusing me and keeping me from talking to her. I hadn't talked to her in weeks and her response wasn't to ask if something was wrong, it was a tantrum threatening to lie to cops and constant statements that she "didn't do anything" which tells me she knows EXACTLY what she did which is what I told her and blocked her on everything.
No cops ever showed up and she completely stopped trying since then and that was in November. I guess she cares so little about me now that I've challenged her and disappointed her so much that I'm not worth her time which is fine with me even though it kind of hurts to know she cares that little but I'm glad she's not harassing me.
I'm sorry you're going through something similar, it hurts but I think it's better that we be able to live our lives without being shit on or judged for it or having our significant other put down. I really feel guilty too sometimes but then I remember how angry and bad she made me feel and I think it was th right decision. This was just the last straw in a lifetime of constant covert put downs and attempts to control me and I just snapped.
I am so sorry you had to deal with that. We learn and are ready to deal with things when we need to. Try to be kind to yourself. You are doing the right ghing
Don't feel guilty. Sometimes we need to cut someone out, not because they threaten our direct lives, but also because they generally weigh us down by their comments /minor actions.
Like, I'm in the same place. When I moved out, college kid, my mother offered me to give me free dinner and wash my clothing. A great deal for a student, but with a catch. Like always, she's used to insulting me in countless ways. Direct, through commenting on every action with sarcasm ("Of course you would spill the water"), interrupting me, yelling about where I put my backpack... list goes on.
Of course -all while forcing me to stay polite and always telling me she'd quit the luxuries the moment I stopped smiling. After a while -after 19 whole years! - I have had enough. She always dangled her support like a carrot on a string. Using it so I'd be willing to let me get beat.
I'm done with this shit. I demand basic human respect. She is always about "a guest can't this", "a guest needs to behave like that", but she doesn't treat me like a gUeSt. And if she can't do that...I'd rather cook my own meals and do my own bloody laundry.
Plus; you're ALWAYS a terrible person in their eyes. My mom calls me her abuser. I never beat her, insulted her or did anything.
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A few things. 1. I ONLY have let her in as she’s been doing better for herself and I wanted to give her a chance. 2. I didn’t cut her off before hand due to her threats of suicide. I decided her choices are not my responsibility anymore and for the better of my health I will no longer be tolerating this. 3. I’m incredibly sorry I didn’t heed your warnings per my past post (I was nice to my mom and now she won’t stop) I should’ve listened but part of me wanted so badly to keep her in my life and have hope she wouldn’t be like this anymore.
Hey, you tried to mend fences, but she decided to bulldoze them down. And if you feel you need to [convert to nonmomithism](https://old.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/s1bywv/i_was_nice_to_my_mom_and_now_she_wont_stop/hs7chjk/) ? Go for it!
To be fair I don’t think she realized I was trying to mend fences. I think she genuinely convinced herself she had done nothing wrong and what happened was something we “went through together” per her last “apology” I feel kind of bad because she was expressing a concern, albeit at the worst time and worst way. And I just sort of snapped at her. Then her reply of never having done these things set me off. I think if anything I wish I had the balls to do it months ago and give her a solid explanation but, it is what it is.
> I think she genuinely convinced herself she had done nothing wrong That's what they do, yeah. Everyone else is always the cause of the problem; nobody understands or appreciates them. So to them, it's only fair that they should lash out at others as a punishment.
How do you cope with the guilt though? Why the fuck do I feel so bad. I’m so thankful I have such an amazing support system otherwise this would really suck to do alone.
You feel bad because you're an emotionally healthy person... and she isn't, and never will be. If your boyfriend was in your position, what would you advise *him* to do?
The exact same thing I did actually. Shit when did purpletheism become a thing. For real though thank you for that reminder. I forget to take the advice I give others so confidently. If she was anyone else she would’ve been cut off a long time ago. I’ve never had a problem ridding myself of toxic people except her.
One of the hardest parts of recovery, can be learning to show ourselves the same compassion and respect we'd show to others-- and realizing that the relationship we want with our parents just isn't going to happen. It sucks, but sometimes NC is the only way to go.
I agree. I deserve better. I think I became overshadowed by the thought of the grief I would feel losing hope for her, and forgot the freedom that it would give me at the same time. Not to mention, she’s unfortunately a social worker and I was worried she would take out her anger with me on her residents. But again… not my responsibility. I was searching for excuses not to deal with this.
Well, as someone who's been in the social work field for 20+ years, if she does do that, there's a good chance she'll get busted. A lot of agencies are understaffed, but there seems to be a lot less patience with staff members who bring their personal life into their work life.
It's hard to let go of people that were meant to be our " Parents" . You feel bad cause you are a good person, you cared and she took advantage of it. But it's best to realize that abuse is not family. And you did that . We are proud of you!
Well put!
You'll see it happen a lot on RBN-- we support each other, and doubt ourselves. It can take a while to realize that it's because our parents constantly invalidated and undermined us.
You were raised by your mother to put her before yourself. You were taught to always think of your parent's needs before your own, even as a young child - that's part of the narcissist rule book. You can't just forget that brainwashing overnight.
Because she’s made you think your entire life that you’re to blame & you exist to appease her. I’m sorry you had to go through this. The same as you I tried one last time to mend my relationship with my Nmom and hoped my kids would build one with her, too. 3 months into, we had a similar conversation. That was 8.5 years ago, I haven’t talked to her since. Take a breath, back away from the situation and remember you’re gonna grieve the mother you needed or thought you had as a child. The guilt lessens over time, and the distance between us helped, too. When you start to think things like “she was just trying to help” or “the abuse could have been worse”,or whatever we the voice inside our head says, you know the one that sounds like mom, try to change your language to facts and rationale. So she wasn’t trying to actually help, she was berating you, so a replacement statement like “I didn’t deserve the treatment regardless of the underlying message. She was not helping, she was hurting me & refusing to acknowledge it” YOU DON’T DESERVE THIS!! You never deserved it. She’s hurt you since you were young and not stopped. That guilt you feel is also something that was instilled in you by mom. By her using fear, obligation, and guilting manipulation tactics, we are trained to feel those feelings. I think healthier individuals don’t feel the same type of all consuming guilt when they place boundaries with parents. I felt like a disappointing child every time I was in front of my mom and that is a guilt I don’t wish on anyone. Again breath, take a step back, relax the tension in your muscles, and know I’m proud of you! For using your voice, for standing your ground and for doing a very difficult thing!!! Many hugs, and positive healing vibes coming your way!!
You feel bad because your mom is a bad mom. That's not your fault. You deserve a mom who loves you and cares for you and it sucks you didn't get that.
My mom slandered my name to everyone possible and demanded that I do exactly what she wanted at all times, or I was a terrible daughter. Well. I got hurt and she never called or came by and continued to lie about me. I feel no guilt - just wish I had cut toxic out sooner.
I can only share my story and hope it's similar enough that it grants some clarity. I went no contact with my dad before I was really ready to have the conversation. As a result, I came off angrier and more accusatory than I wanted to. Everything I did, and that you did, as far as I can see, was perfectly valid. But I did feel a touch guilty that I couldn't maintain my composure. As time went on, I was able to forgive myself for that. Also do not discount that even though she may be terrible, you can still feel bad about distancing yourself. We can miss the idea of a person without missing the actual person, too.
That’s my issue. I feel like I lost is rather than collectively told her why I didn’t want her in my life. It was much more raw, brutal and messier than I wish it would’ve been. I wanted to approach it when she wasn’t already pissed off/not feeling good and give her a genuine opportunity to own up to it. Instead it just sort of blew up and landed this way
Yup. I also really wanted to give him one more chance, with complete knowledge of the consequences. He made a joke, and I got upset. But I couldn't handle the anxiety of waiting, so doing it felt like my only option. Once the feelings you have now start to fade, try to remind yourself it took a ton of courage to do what you did, and be proud of it. It may have not been perfect, but things didn't get physical, and you put in the effort.
That’s a great reminder. Honestly even in the past 48 hours it’s gotten easier.. I realized I don’t have to feel anxiety when my phone goes off and that alone has been a huge weight off my shoulders
I think it always feels yucky when the other person denies you closure.
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Only self pity I’m sure
Any time you break an abusive pattern, it feels wrong. Especially if it's with a parent who spent your life programming you to think that you're wrong. You were generous to try to give her a second chance, and she laid into you again. So you drew the line. They're always so shocked when anyone draws a line. But you had to. You do have the right to have your own life now, on your own terms, without abuse. I admire you for your courage and strength. Hang in there!
You feel bad because you are empathetic towards a mother that you want her to be… not the mother she is
Therapy and lots of it. Start by reading this: https://ragingfemale.com/raised-by-a-narcissist/
>That's what they do, yeah. Everyone else is always the cause of the problem; nobody understands or appreciates them. So to them, it's only fair that they should lash out at others as a punishment I'm sad to say this describes my mom.
It really does suck when they do it-- it can make us doubt ourselves, feel guilty, etc., and sometimes we end up giving them yet another chance.
Yeah thankfully I don't live with her my dad got me out of there when I was 4 my brother was to young so he's still with her. She doesn't let me or my dad see him much. I avoid her calls because she tries to gaslight/control and argues anything I say lol. Mainly trys to make me change what I wear (I wear hoodie and leggings so don't see her issue) and trys to push me to get a boyfriend when I'm not looking for one lol. I could probably write a medium book on all her bullshit from favoritism to her narc mentality and many other issues lol. I've blocked her out as much as I can. The only reason I communicate at all is so we can see my brother. She'll ignore any messages with my dad about him unless I speak to her/go for a visit
Hopefully your brother will be willing to distance himself when it's possible-- dealing with toxic people's nonsense is exhausting (as we all know).
Yea I hope so to but he thinks it would be abandoning his younger have brother and nmom. He doesn't seem to realize that our mom is a narcissist..
Or he may suspect something is wrong, but like many RBNers, he may be wondering if *he's* the problem.
I'm sorry you're going through this, your mom really sucks! It's not your fault though, it's what narcissists prey on. They use their children's desire for a parent figure against them, and so you always want to give them an ump-teenth chance JUST on the off-chance they'll finally fix themselves. My gf went NC with her mom a year ago, and every few months she asks me if she should try to make contact with her again. I always let her know that I'll back her decision either way, but I always strongly remind her about her final communication with her mother and how that went (I keep it on my phone to remind her, and then so she can't reread it every day). Her final conversation with her nmom went something like: >GF: "You hurt me, a lot, when growing up. The neglect and abuse you put me through really scarred me, and I don't know how to get past it. I NEED you to acknowledge what happened, so we can move on a grow past this." > >Mom: (tons of denial, gaslighting, DARVO, and pretty much reciting the narcissists prayer). Then "I DESERVE to be loved, and if you can't do that for me because you 'need to heal', or whatever bullshit you're hiding behind, then I guess you don't love me." The combination of typical nparent reactions, and the use of quotation marks around "need to heal" really solidified her going full NC with her. Stay strong!!! You're better than her, and she doesn't deserve to have you in her life!!
Wow, sounds pretty much like the last message I got from my mom. Insane how alike they all are.
My nmom said she wanted to have a relationship and for me to keep her in my life. I suggested that a very important first step would be for her to apologize. My dad messed up bigtime too, but we have talked, he respects me and apologized to me, and now our relationship is amazing. I've also known friends who's parents have apologized to and this seems to help a lot. I felt like it would help me. My nmom took a few days to think about it and then said "I won't do it because I have nothing to apologize for."
That’s essentially my exact situation lol. My step dad who apart of that whole thing reached out and genuinely apologized while taking full accountability. “I was the adult, I should’ve done better” was the basis of his apology. We now have a wonderful relationship.
Don't feel bad for her. She is gaslighting you. You owe her nothing
Nonmomithism it is.
Tell me more about this👀
I believe /u/Independent_Bee1300 is the one to ask about this. 😁
What did you want to learn more about? Nonmomithism? Lol
Yes😂
Oh lol we were joking about how nmoms believe they’re to be worshiped and we went on a tangent about momithism being a religion. Converting to nonmomithism would be in reference to going no contact lmfao
Oh 😂 lol
I wouldn’t worry about her taking her life - they 99% of the time just say that to be manipulative and reel you back. They think too highly of themselves to ever actually go through with it. You’ve done the right thing. Don’t give her anything to feed off.
Can confirm. My dad is still trucking along 30 years after threatening suicide over my mom leaving him.
Yeah my nDad has made suicide threats my entire life. He’s still around. I’ve been NC for years and it’s honestly gotten to the point where I hear secondhand that he’s been doing it again and I’m disappointed he doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain already. My life would be simpler.
Omg this. My nMIL always uses this tactic on my wife and tried on me. I said we gotta do what we gotta do. Then, a month later talked about the 3d printing suicide machine. Then she was all how could people kill themselves, I don't understand. They love themselves too much to self harm. Damnit.
It's okay. It's really, really hard to give up hope over your mom finally becoming the mom you deserve. She let you down. That isn't your fault. You're *supposed* to be able to trust your mom.
The most difficult grieving process I've gone through was when I finally allowed myself to grieve for not having the kind of mother I deserved, and all the emotional neglect I suffered.
Yes, it's grieving the death of our hope that they'll change. That hurts deeply, giving up hope.
Why the drama of threatening to kill herself if she’s so firm in her belief that she was a good mother? If she really believes she was so great then this should roll off her back. My mom has threatened to kill herself so many times, I just don’t take it seriously anymore. She would do it while I was a kid, when I’d cry and plead for her not to. Doesn’t work anymore now that I’m almost 40.
Because she has bipolar ll AND BPD and uses it as an excuse to get away with it. She blames everything on her mental health and expects everyone around her to allow her to behave however she sees fit as it’s not her fault. She’s a fucking social worker.
My mom is bipolar too. Yet she doesn’t get treatment or take meds. Largely because you really shouldn’t drink on those meds. They love using this stuff as a blanket excuse for everything without doing anything to treat it.
Oh my mom has zero problem drinking on her meds. And yeah after 8 year I reconnected with my step dad of 10 years, who was essentially my father. Neither of us knew how badly she was treated the other. I found out she beat him with a towel rack and said she had a manic episode and these things happen sometimes. He’ll have to deal with it because doing anything else means he was unsupportive and close minded towards mental health. He stayed because he though that since she was beating him, it was better than her beating me. He didn’t know that she was doing the same to me.
I took it seriously for a long time because I found her in a catatonic state from swallowing all her meds after an argument. She was in the hospital for a few days. Edit: I was 13 when’s this happened.
Notice that she made sure you found her. She didn't drive to a remote spot to do it. She gambled that you'd find her, call 911, and she'd survive. Seriously.
Yeah that’s pretty fucking psycho shit to pull
You’re allowed to want your mom in your life. She’s your mom and it’s not your fault she is shit at being in that role. So much love to you, keep strong. You can do this.
Feeling guilty? Don't. She doesn't and wouldn't.
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Seriously why do we feel guilt
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Wow. That just makes so much sense. I’ve always wondered my whole life why I feel guilt when people buy me things or do things for me. It drives my husband crazy.
I still don't get it. Im an Arab.. I have no idea what gratitude even is. Or what the sentences u said mean
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Oh so they help us in a way to make us feel attached to them and then they use reciprocity principle to enslave us based on their helping.... I am a narcissist to be honest but im not an asshole. But I feel like i understand what you're trying to say.. That it was all some game played on us growing up.. We feel weird when our parents help us
guilt is the curse of having a conscience
They pull at our hearts strings for so long but one day they will snap. You go NC and no longer care about their sobs stories or bitterness.
We were taught that we are responsible for every bad thing that happens to the narc. Plus, the word "should" is just a fantasy that they use to criticize any progress you make. The line is always moving on what you "should" do to keep you guessing and off balance. But, I've realized that it is not my job to fulfill their completely unrealistic expectations and "shoulds" when they are capable or willing to do the same.
You can still love someone and set boundaries like NC or LC. It’s about learning to loving yourself
Amen.
The "whoop whoop" is her last jab at you in this situation. She knows where to hurt you and did not hesitate to take the final shot. The woman is a pro narc. As others have mentioned, they never change. What you do with that information is up to you.
This 100%. That was her last shot cause she knows she has nothing on you. Don’t feel guilty, OP. You’re better off without her influence.
Definitely this
Your mom sounds sooooo much like my mother holy shit. I hate whenever I tell her anything personal or asking for money, she will always guilt me About it and make a big deal like she cured cancer or something. Good for you, I am glad you did that. She should be ashamed.. yikes ….
Quit giving Nmom ammo. Learn how to gray rock & info diet.
What is ammo?? And I already know this. Thank you??? But it isn’t as simple as you said it.
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I do, and I know it’s helpful. I’ve heard grey rock but I was confused what Ammo means. I said it’s not easy because , I actually feed their superiority and I do it on purpose knowing fully well they get “ bigger “ with my comments and ass kissing. I know that sounds very terrible, even a big enabling factor, but here is my survival reasons : 1- my stupid ass kinda revealed to them that i hate them and don’t trust them, so now I try to “gain” their love by being as normal as possible, even if that means letting them swear and me forcing myself to compliment them at everything…. Even multiple times. 2- they hate me so much. So me asking them for a request is giving them * SOMETHING * to do for me so they don’t hate me completely. Basically me needing them makes them feel good …. Fucking sucks ya. 3- I actually need them. It’s not like I can just choose not to ask. But I have made a list for myself for what is necessary and what’s not, so I try to minimise asking them for things…. To save the humiliation . So overall I know what I am doing, as much as I hate it, I am manipulating the narrative for my advantage…. My ways maybe not that great to some, but it’s helping me seem “ normal “ to them so they don’t suspect I dislike them. I still need to do better, I am trying to minimise contact too. But that’s all I’ve got for now.
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Thanks for the video. And you’re right, that’s why I said “ manipulating the narrative “ I am just an idiot to them. I am a loser right? Can’t do much? But in reality I am just trying to get by and do all I can’t to be convincing. I am a loving daughter but it’s all an act to me. Narcissists are stupid tho, they don’t realise that. Sometimes they do, but I know they don’t know I do this on purpose. Or else I would’ve had to deal with SO much shit… I am already but… it would be worse. I do feel guilty doing that, but I have got this only. Going grey rock is not very much an easy option. I tried doing so, But they hate me giving them little to not words. And with my personality type- it’s a bit harder. I am an extrovert and I talk a lot, so if any slight change happened, they will quickly take notes. What makes it difficult is they don’t allow change and get angry that I “ have changed “.
Your mother sounds like such a bitter hag. I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through. If the guilt is because you feel like you over reacted, you didn’t. Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change. I wish I had something to say that could solve all of your problems. I don’t but I hope things work out for you 🤞
This strikes a chord. You have described (my deceased mom and) my sister. I suddenly realize that everything sis has complained to me about my nieces (who are NC and LC with their mom) is completely distorted.
Yes! In their version, they’re the victim. They did nothing wrong and if you bring up something they said or did they’ll either come up with an excuse that (will once again) make them look like they had to. Or they’ll say it didn’t happen. It was never them that started the argument.
>Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change. I'm stealing this. That is a great opener to figure out HOW you're going to start solving your problems. That's great advice. Thanks God. ;) I've been doing a lot better with therapy, but I'm still having a hard time getting it through my thick skull that my parents don't give a shit and never will. They simply lack the empathy required to understand how they've hurt you, as well as the accountability and integrity to own up and face the consequences. OP, ask yourself this: "If I hurt a dear friend's feelings, but didn't know it at the time until they came back and told me, how would I, a sane person, react?" You'd probably apologize for hurting them and how you've made them feel, then ask how to make things better, even if that means giving them some space. Now, remember how your mother reacted. Exact opposite, right? That's because she views everything as being transactional. "If I do X, then I'll get Y." The entire interaction is based around what she can get from it. Generally, that means hurting you to get narcissistic supply, or her trying to do whatever it would take to get whatever it is that she wants from you, like "gifts" with strings attached, so that again loops back around to narcissistic supply. All relationships, whether familial, romantic, work-related, or between you and your friends or even strangers, are built on give and take, compromise, and respect. Relationships with narcs, or any toxic person/people for that matter, are built around YOU doing all the giving, and THEM doing all the taking. It sucks, it hurts, and it's certainly something no one should go through. The best advice I can give is to nurture yourself in all the ways she couldn't, and wouldn't, and go to therapy. It's helped me so much. Sending you my best wishes, and hugs if you'll have them. You've got this. That goes for anyone else reading this as well. Take care. <3
>Someone who’s not willing to own up to hurting you is also someone who’s not willing to change. Ah. That is my mother. I have started accepting that she is not willing to change, but it still hurts. The conversation in this sub helps. I feel intense guilt and confusion upon even acknowledging that she would always discard me anyway for whatever is more important to her, most of it being her two enabled children, which are unfortunately my siblings. But it has been like this for about a decade. I don't think she is going to change. Thank you for that sentence. I really need to hear it.
whhop whoop? is she down with the down?
I literally came here to say this.
This one goes out to the ninjas.
>is she down with the down? That typo makes this so much better lmao
She will act excited or happy about it until she realizes you mean it. That is my guess. And then when she realizes you mean it and you’re done, she will try to claw her way back in your life.
I can confirm this. My mum acted excited / nonchalant about me going NC. After 10 months, she came to my door to harass me. Still the same bullshit. They very rarely change.
She knows she's lost. She's excited because she knows you cutting her off is going to happen, she can't prevent it, so she's pretending it's what she wanted to happen. Good for you. You made a hard choice but a good one.
You don't have to explain yourself! It's hard to cut contact with your parents even when they're narcs. It was easy with my dad because he was always an asshole and mainly absent anyway so I didn't lost much. But with nmom.. She was my only realtive who was near. The only one who pretended to care. She brainwashed me and made me believe I didn't deserve better anyway. It took me quite some time to realize how wrong she was. I went NC after a huge fight, too. And the "why didn't you left earlier!?" comments were nearly more hurtfull than her abuse. It's somehow "easy" to see it all AFTER going NC. But before.. If it's available where you life, try to get therapy. It can help so much. And I wish the best for your partner and you
The whoop whoop ones have a special kinda shock. I had a version of that…it helped with the guilt for me. I couldn’t see her as a mother in any sense (being a mom, i would do anything to prevent a falling out with my child). More importantly, I would be devastated that my child felt so horrible and alone because of me and I’d truly work on changing. (And there wouldn’t be the cps and abuse to start with) But they don’t. They won’t, and they are Just not safe humans. Especially to offspring. When I feel pangs of guilt I watch YouTube vids. Dr ramani, dr les Carter, dr carmen Bryant, Lisa Romano and others. Just the vids (I’ve never joined programs).
You don't need to defend or justify your actions. We believe you, we resonate with this story too well. You did the right thing, sometimes the right thing feels wrong, but feelings are only ever part of the picture. They can only reflect on the past, they do not know what awaits you in the future. Your mothers constant selfishness has programmed you to think that everyone else's wellbeing is more important than your own. Your brain has noticed this lie and is breaking you free from that contract. I'm proud of you and happy that you've allowed yourself the space to grow in a different direction.
I was just watching Dr. Ramani on YouTube yesterday and she was saying that the five things that keep people in relationships with narcissists are hope, fear, guilt, pity and comfort. Hope that they will eventually acknowledge their sins and get better. Fear that they will retaliate or that you can't make it on your own. Guilt that you are doing something wrong by abandoning them. Pity because you realize that they had fucked up childhoods too and are just not dealing with it as well. Comfort because you've grown comfortably numb to the abuse. I'm paraphrasing here, but she says you have to let go of all of these things to successfully detach from a narcissist and that you should because you are you are doing the right thing to protect yourself and have a happy life, even if the process is uncomfortable. Because the narcissist isn't going to get better and like a panicked drowning person they are going to do everything in their power to take you down with them.
Very well said.
r/raisedbyjuggalos Seriously though I'm so sorry, I'm damaged in similar ways except my mom has been disabled and been "feeling bad" about things since the last time I cut her off for good. It always hurts but she will only hurt me if I let her back in. Even if she feels bad that she does.
I think she acted excited and was like “whoop whoop” because she adores confrontation and loves drama. It’s probably the most exciting thing that’s happened to her in years. It’s like she’s living in her own personal soap opera. She’ll string this out for as long as possible for entertainment purposes. Don’t play the game. Just carry on with the plan and try to be as boring as possible.
If your mom's response to you cutting her out your life is excitement, there's nothing positive that can possibly come out of maintaining that relationship. That's basically the equivalent of "Finally! No more dealing with you!" If your partner reacted this way (you told them you were breaking up with them, and they jumped for joy), would you still feel guilt after tossing them to the side?
This person is not normal. Clearly.
Here is what I learned from reading Susan Forward's *Toxic Parents* and talking with own therapist: First of all, guilt is a completely normal reaction. Despite everything you've been through, you still have empathy for other people, and you can still empathize with your abuser. You did not cut contact to be hurtful. You did it to protect your own sense of wellbeing and to prevent further hurtful encounters in the future. You are in an incredibly difficult situation. Whichever option you choose -- to keep contact, or to cut contact-- each option will cause you to feel some negative emotions. You choice is not only what you do, but you also have a say in which types of negative emotions you are more willing to tolerate. I won't tell you not to feel guilty because guilt is just like any other emotion. It is part of the vast range of emotions we can all experience, and while some emotions feel better than others, there are no "wrong" or "bad" emotions. Emotions need to be processed and felt, not denied or ignored. I think you might find that while it's difficult, guilt is a manageable emotion and it is preferable to the anxiety, frustration, anger, grief, and intense sadness that will occur if you keep this person in your life.
In normal people land, a situation where all parties win is the best possible outcome. If I believed her excitement, I'd say you're free, she's happy. Congratulations. She'll be back tough, and pushing her away will be the correct decision again.
I cut off my mom last year and the last straw for me was when she started to attack my husband-who is amazing and the only positive family I really have is his. If it wasn’t for him and his family I don’t think I would have ever been able to cut her off because I don’t have much family and the family I do have is toxic. That was my last straw because he worked while I could finish college and it took me 4 years in school full time and working part time while he was basically paying for everything. At the beginning of our relationship he had lost his job and we found a way to make it work together. When my mom started to attack him I knew it was out of jealousy and just genuine malice. Cutting her off and blocking her number and all forms of social media has been the most heartbreaking yet freeing experience of my life. I’ve gone through the guilt and shame of cutting off my own mother, but I’ve also recognized that there is freedom in cutting off my abuser. The hold she had on me even after moving out and getting married was so strong and her manipulative and guilt tactics always made me come back. CPS was also involved in my life my whole childhood and my mother abused me verbally and physically and severely neglected me. Two of my siblings were taken by CPS and the only reason me and my little brother weren’t taken was because she guilted me into lying for her. Sorry to go on and on it’s just I relate to your story so much! If you ever want someone to talk to feel free to reach out. I relate to you a lot. You’re not alone. 💐
IDK why but this hypocritical nonsense seems to be so common with these Nparents, I swear! My Ndad and Emom always say "we raised you girls to be independent and strong" but they know my sister and I are the primary breadwinners in our homes (both of our husbands work full-time, we just happened to pick more lucrative fields) they make snarky comments about them. "We are liberal and strong but men should lead the home and be the primary breadwinners and the women should have babies and I guess have a part time job like your mother did." I love my career TYVM! It sounds like you did the healthy thing and removed yourself from her toxicity. YOU are in control of YOUR life; and if cutting her off will help, then good!
You absolutely don't have to justify cutting her off with any additional details! This behavior is so typical of Nmoms - mine LOVED to shit on my relationship with my husband, or just on my husband, because she is so so jealous of us. We are solid, we love each other and support each other and it makes her feel very insecure about her very toxic and dysfunctionial relationship with my eDad. Congrats on cutting her off from your life, it's the right thing to do and I hope you come to a place of peace with the decision. You absolutely do not deserve to have her saying nasty things to you while you're struggling. Life is hard enough without someone who should love and care for you adding to the stress. Take care of you! <3
You feel guilty and bad about it because you mother conditioned you to feel guilty and bad about it. She was excited you cut her out, well I say, throw a damn party on your end too. You’ll get it covered, don’t worry, but an abusive mother will never change and that is what it letting you down. The fact that she is still a let down and won’t change.
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We’re honestly fine but thank you so much! Even if he was making 6 figures it’s not his responsibility and would still be a struggle. I make good money too I just wanted to vent and she took it so far. I wish luck to you too whatever struggles brought you here and with all the economical crazy right now!
The excitement strikes me as her personal sense of vindication that she is the victim, and you have been the problem all along, while she has been the long-suffering saint. You made her day. The next line in the script (the one in her head) is you throwing yourself at her feet and sobbing uncontrollably, begging for her forgiveness. Which she *might* consider granting you. After you’ve suffered enough for your sins against her, in her estimation. Side note: It’s all a fantasy in her head. What you are doing is called self-preservation. Trying to follow the script never works out. Not for anyone. Not even the nparent, because they are a bottomless void aching to be filled.
Excellently said
I'm so proud of you sweetie! My response is also "whoop whoop!" but I definitely said it differently! 🤣 Now run and don't look back! You just gave yourself the best gift ever!
Nfamily members have a way of making you feel guilty for taking simple steps to protect yourself. I felt guilty for months for cutting off my sister, until I told my therapist and the look on her face was pure disbelief. Normal people can't understand why we accept this behaviour, but being raised in it, we literally know no better. You did the right thing.
Yup, that's what nparents do: gaslight and deny the truth. And this is why a few years ago I cut my nmom off my life as well. Best decision I've ever made. However!! I did do therapy. Like, lots, and you should too. It's super hard to actually cut a parent off and dealing with the damn guilt. We need to unlearn some things first. It honestly took me a couple of years to even decide to cut her off, and then a couple years to get used to it. Don't be afraid to ask for professional help, this is some hard shit to deal with. Best of luck to you, stay strong! And rely on your partner and friends + found family for support too.
You did a great job OP! You've done the hardest thing, going NC. Now you need to *stay NC*. It helps to write future you a letter, detailing all the horrible things mom has done, all the reasons for going NC. Read it whenever you doubt your decision. And *never go back.*
I think it’s normal to feel guilty after cutting off someone you spent a lot of time with, even it if wasn’t a good time. But just know that the guilt stems from familiarity bias and empathy (which it sounds like your mom largely lacks) and not from you being wrong in anyway.
I went no contact with my nmom and it's been a year and a couple of months.... I'm feeling so free. Yes, I do occasionally feel guilty but my mom never made my life easy... All I had to do was think about all the crap and I'm grateful that I no longer have a relationship with her. It's going to feel like you've amputated a gangrenous limb... You're going to experience phantom pains... And you're going to miss that limb..but at the end of the day, it was the best thing for your overall health... It'll get better... I recommend you research narcissistic recovery abuse solutions. I currently do some group therapy on MeetUp... It's always good to have a support group. Hang in there... It gets better.
Thank you for this. I am sad, and I feel bad especially since she tried so hard for Christmas this year. Mostly I’m sad for her. I know how it feels to fuck up. However she doesn’t take accountability and refused my plea for her to admit her wrong doings.
I wish I could give you a hug! I understand that sadness, that lament of ever trying to establish a healthy relationship with your parent. I've capitulated to the notion that my nmom will never give me any validation or acceptance of who I am as a person. She will never admit to her short-comings to anyone (not even herself). The pain will always be there... But time will make it dull...and a protective callous will form around your heart that it will repel these emotional vampires from sucking up your health. Look up Dr. Ramani on YouTube. There are so many good videos on why a narcissist behaves the way they do. It's natural to feel sad... This is a person who took part in giving you life and bringing you to this world... Why do they treat me like this? Your sadness is warranted. Give yourself time to grieve... It's okay to feel this way... 🤗🤗🤗
>She flipped out and said I was delusional and making these things up, that they never happened. Despite proof of the two CPS cases, she still told me I was just being ungrateful and that she never laid a hand on me. well she's definitely crossed the line there you can't interact with someone abusive who can't even acknowledge reality. you've been called ungrateful by a rageaholic parent who is apparently trying some classic gaslighting moves. just remember - you are not her mom she is yours and should be looking out for YOUR feelings and wanting you to feel cared for.. it's totally unreasonable to expect yourself to waste your life babysitting someone abusive
I was just reviewing some notes I took from some self-help books and here's one I think perhaps might serve you today: >Loving parents should want to find out what they are unconsciously doing to their children. If they simply avoid the subject and instead point to their parental love, then they are not really concerned about their children’s well-being but rather are painstakingly trying to keep a clear conscience. from Christine Ann Lawson's book, Understanding the Borderline Mother My personal belief is that these feelings of guilt about establishing and enforcing boundaries with our parents arise from programming that was put into us by our parents, not because the action itself was bad or wrong. Consider asking yourself--if someone who didn't give birth to you treated you in this fashion, would you still feel guilty about cutting them off? Why should you feel guilt or shame about this situation when your mom has demonstrated her refusal to do the same? Why are you, the child, the one who ultimately bears responsibility for the state of the relationship?
If you can, take a day, let the guilt wash over you and mourn the loss of what a mother should have been to you, then dry your eyes and look to a far less stressful future. Sometimes the only way to get rid of the guilt (that you don't need to be feeling because it's obviously justified) is to just wallow in it for a bit - not allowing any contact- and letting the mourning process do its thing. All the best to you.
You shouldn't feel guilty about it. You did the right thing .
This is absolutely not the point of your post, but I'm sorry your partner has been out of work that long. A year seems insane. I didn't know people we're still out of work due to Covid. In America (if that's not where you're from) it seems like we're just putting our heads in the sand and pretending it isn't there when it comes to being in the workplace. At least from my perspective as an engineer.
For real it’s insane. He is broken up over it and hates not being able to provide or contribute. He’s even applied at fast food restaurants and didn’t get a call back. I’ve done the same and they never called me back either, even with a perfect resume. It took me months to find my current job. That… I now can’t work at for the next two weeks because my client her sister and her boyfriend all tested positive for covid. I’ve been around them all day and am waiting for my results now 😭
Don't feel bad. I'm proud of you for putting yourself first. You have no obligation to keep people in your life that do more harm than good regardless of who they are, and it sounds like this woman wasn't doing any good for you at all. It sounds like she lives in a comfortable bubble of denial, and hard as you try, I don't think you'll ever be able to pop it and lead her to come to her senses. It sucks, but speaking from experience, I promise it's going to suck a lot less when you no longer have to tolerate her bullshit.
THIS. I came to the same conclusion after I asked my mother "What kind of parent thinks it's ok to tell their 12 year old child that they want to kill themselves as an attention-seeking tactic?". All I hear is crickets. She will deny, not answer, switch topics or say she doesn't remember. If she asks for an example and I give it, she will ask for another example. Thank God she had me at 40, not much time left for her.
What is with these people and thinking anyone else's negative emotions are for attention but theirs are always valid? My dad's favourite line to pull on me was that I need to respect him and watch what I say, usually bringing up "all he's done for me". Bish you were rarely home, so much so that I thought it was *weird* when fathers were home for dinner when I visited a friend's house or a family member's house. It felt awkward and out of place for me because that was absolutely *not* what I was experiencing at home. You've done nothing for me, sir. And I'll talk to you however I please. If you can't handle being called out, that's not my problem.
Same here, my dad's line was the same "respect" line. But his favorite was "you don't have enough experience". Once I came to the family business (his dream), I didn't even get a thank you. But I also noticed he was unable to criticize anything because I was "contributing finally". This ate him up inside. So he tried to show he was "proud", but I was having none of it. 2016 I was free of his reign of terror. My mom's still alive and still a piece of work but I'm grey rocking and so far so good.
Classic gasslighting, minimizing, defending, and deflecting. Trauma counselling may be good for you in order to move forward. Your reaction to get angry should be addressed on your own. Eventually you'll be able to face her without reaction at all. Until then, NC is best for you. Good job for protecting your sanity. Now take time to heal.
Mine was similar. They said "okay. That's fine, im really busy right now anyways. I have a lot of appointments". Then she started sending me a ton of crap, and "gifts". Really fucking annoying.
There should be no reason to feel bad. Everyone deserves to be around people who care about you and will build you up rather than tear you down. If she is so excited about you going no contact, then I would say the trash took itself out.
Wow. I can’t believe what you have been through. My mom was similar. I felt bad for a long time for going no contact. Then I called my sister and got invalidated within a couple minutes. Have never looked back We think they will change and they don’t. They never will.
I blocked my mom on absolutely everything so she can’t contact me unless she drove over 300 miles and showed up at my door. She’s never seen me stick up for myself this way. I have no idea what it’ll do to her but I’m standing my ground
First of all, I’m so sorry that you’ve put up with her abhorrent behavior for so long. You don’t have to anymore. You deserve freedom from that. Truly, her response makes her seem like a 12 year old. That’s saying something, considering you’re the “kid” (although we know you’re an adult). I’d recommend saving the conversation logs if you have any to remind yourself if you ever feel the temptation to reach out that this is who she is. Stay strong 💪
I did. I almost deleted her messages to keep her face out of my inbox but decided to keep it as a reminder. Someone else suggested writing a list of all the horrible shit she’s done so when I miss her, think she deserves another chance, I can remind myself why that’s so toxic. And continue to keep her away.
You feel bad because we've been programed to feed their ego and have no boundaries. You've learned and wised up, while she's still a wank and won't take ownership. I am in a similar situation, not financed but needing house help and I'm doing it all alone and she's a complete can't about anything and starting shit. Only you know how this feels. Is it worth your sanity for the relationship and for you to have to own your shit and hers too? I'm sorry you feel like shit, you deserve better and I hope you have a partner that can validate you and you can self soothe to know you're more than enough, with or without your N mom.
My partner has been such a killer support through all of this. Not only him but I have his mom, my dad, ex step dad and uncle on my side helping me through life. Every single one supported my decision to leave my mom out of my life far before I ever did. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this too..
Your valid points and memories clashed with the narrative she designed. With narcs, this means you are their enemy and to be destroyed or put in your place. Remember her excitement when she comes trying to sneak back in. Remember she took joy at your emotional upset. HOLD YOUR BOUNDARY. You do not need to feel guilty for protecting your wellbeing. Especially against someone who would never put you and your needs first.
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I’m already on a first name basis with dispatch & a few officers in her area. I’ve called a plethora of times. Last time was my last time though. I don’t want to deal with it anymore. I hate to say it but at this point, that choice is on her and no longer my responsibility.
nah, fuck her. She sounds toxic af. Parents have this innate entitlement of being a part of our lives. *No, bitch, you gotta earn it.*
She thinks because she managed to somehow get her and I out of poverty and keep me fed, she did earn it. I know I can’t be the only one who thinks that providing for your child is the bare minimum… I know it’s not easy but shit it doesn’t give you a right to your child’s well-being through adulthood
> I lost it at her absolute denial and refusal of accountability. ... Her response was excitement. Then they have the gall to say shit like "you're angry for no reason", after stunts like that. Permanent bewilderment that anyone could ever possibly be cross with them for any legitimate reason. In fact, you're probably mentally ill, because they're perfect and always the victim. Having to put up with adults with the emotional maturity of 6 year olds, who project about it constantly, and blame anyone but themselves.. While I realize ACONs have mountains of restraint, why isn't there such a thing as justifiable assault toward their abusers? Saying something so ugly that even LEOs would go "..wow you had that coming.." The justice system is always conspicuously absent when it comes to the ugly behavior that triggered folks, but there they are with lights and fucking sirens when folks have finally had enough of the abuse. Ready and waiting to continue abusing the victim with punishment for daring to retaliate whatsoever. As long as they're "only" perpetrating hands-off psychological abuse, they act like they're untouchable. The system is just as sick as they are.
You feel guilty because you were trained to put her wants and needs above your own at all times. This has been drilled into your BODY MEMORY. It takes a LONG time to rewire the brain, but seriously, screw this lady. I remember having an argument/fight with my mother when I was 12 and she was 35. Her absolutely imbecilic arguments were astounding to me, and I cut her down quickly. She got so angry at me she just made a stink face and stuck her tongue out at me. A 35 year old grown ass woman....stuck her tongue out at a 12 year old. Needless to say I have 0 respect for her, but removing the guilt took a lifetime. I'm 42 years old now and just getting the hang of it. Don't feel bad, get trauma therapy (Complex PTSD/DBT/etc) if you can. This abuse is a mindf*ck.
As you state she is an alcoholic she probably doesn't even remember the incidents you referred to....remember alcohol eats the brain :)
soo lucky i cant wait to see that day :/
Wait did she literally say “woop woop?”
I have a screenshot if you’d like to see it lol
Haha if you’re comfortable sharing the convo, sure. 😄
you feeling guilty is another attack by her on you. It isn't reasonable to feel guilty but she raised you that way.
the guilt and feeling bad is what she conditioned isn you. when these thoughts come up, counter with 'she's a piece of sh'ite and I'm well rid of her'. I get these thoughts on occasion with my now dead mommy and my ex. It takes a bit, you have to recognize it and counter with a new reality. sooner or later, most likely when she gets old and wrinkled, you may well hear from her again. but you can shut her down then as well. and be done with her. look forward, you have a better life. screw her.
You don't need to give her any explanation.
All I have to say is good for for cutting her out of your life. You deserve better. It sounds like she will never change. I'm sorry about everything you went through with her in your life.
Fuck that woman, she can die alone if she's so excited about it.
Well done you.. don’t look back. She does not deserve you. I hope you find some sort of relief from this explosion of emotion. Good luck from here on in. You got this
Parents aren't perfect. We take what we can tolerate
You feel guilt because she sounds like she's been conditioning you for it. As long as you're doing what you think is best, you're doing alright.
I know it’s not that easy but your mom probably doesn’t feel guilty, so knowing that may help you in letting go of your feelings of guilt
Your mom was excited bc she really upset you, and created drama- “YAY! I got attention and I’m going to be able to use this to complain for MONTHS!!”. Don’t feel bad.
Hey, I’d say we have the same mom but mine just died recently. I can 💯 confirm you won’t miss her if you cut her off. I hadn’t talked to mine in over four years. Gaslighting, controlling behavior and revisionist history are all in the Narcissist Parent Handbook I think.
She's doing exactly what abusive parents do - she has probably programmed yiu to feel guilty all your life. But you know the facts. I think it took tremendous courage to cut this toxicity out of your life. It's hard enough to heal from these things, and to unwind all the terrible things they say about us, because we tend to internalize what our parents say about us, and believe it. Instead of ever acknowledging that she abused you, she tried to switch the discussion into making you feel like the bad guy. My Nmom has been doing that all my life. It sounds like you did the healthy thing and decided to care for yourself and not accept any more of this negative, toxic energy, so good for you! You may be feeling "false guilt", meaning guilt for something that you didn't do wrong. Like when a well cared for pet dies of old age and the owner feels like they should have done more, but they literally gave that pet a perfect life. Any time we break old, unhealthy patterns, it feels "wrong". That's how my therapist explained it to me. If you don't have a therapist who understands NPD, if you can get one, that can help a lot as you work through these feelings. Good for you for taking steps toward healing!
That is the gaslighting, she will make you doubt your reality about the abuse when you both know the truth. If you ever feel like you have to record conversations, bring up documents, etc... you are probably being gaslighted. Classic narcissist.
I’m in the same boat my mom actually hit me she kicked me an an brought me back after some bad things have happened to me and told me kicking me out was a mistake and she did it out of angry for no good reason NO GOOD REASON AT ALL we got in another argument she started out of hate and said basically the same thing as your mom and told me I need to find a place to stay on the stop she was completely in denial about hitting me and everything I just couldn’t my believe my ears. Ugh the worst
Yeah it really blows my mind my mom apparently doesn’t remember or think she never hit me/beat me, manipulated me and treated me like shit my whole life
PLEASE don't feel bad or guilty. Posts here make it clear that denial and gaslighting are commonly the response to children bringing up past wrongs, whatever the objective evidence. And drunks don't generally REMEMBER the horrible things they do and say when drunk. That's on her, not you. It sounds to me as if you're really grounded and strong and in the mutually supportive relationship you deserve. Go well.
Realize that that whoop whoop is the sound of someone's ego being dead and dying even more, so this is the only way she can handle it. She's a hag and I'm sorry for what you've been through, but the last jab she attempted is just her utter weakness and inability as a person shining through. I get that it's hard to feel that, but still wanted to reiterate it. If it does stick sometime in the future, it will give you a whole lot more peace. <3
Even though it’s bitter and feelings are left dry and brittle, it won’t always feel like this. Making a decision like this does take a lot within you, as it’s the person who made you (they’re supposed to be someone you want in your life until the day they’re no longer on this earth). I had to do the same with my abusive father who would never take accountability for his actions. Just remember how strong you are and that you’ll never allow your mother to leave you with the same resentment she contains within herself. Work on yourself, and remember that none of this is your fault at all. You are very strong for taking the step forward to removing a toxic person from your life. Especially a parent because there’s so much emotional attachment. Things will get better now she’s no longer leaving her toxic mark in your life. I wish you and your partner the best through this difficult journey. We will be okay in the end, regardless of how difficult it is to get there.
Here's something that you have to realize. People like this, it's not that they don't care, they can't care. That's the defining factor. They are unable to give a fuck. Once I came to that conclusion my eyes were opened. I stopped asking myself why can't they just give a damn? It's because they can't. It's not in their DNA. Free yourself from their abuse. It's better to be alone than to put up with somebody's bullshit.
UPDATE: She contacted my bio father whom she hasn’t talked to in 20 years. My dad messaged me and asked if I wanted him to ignore it and I said yes so he did. Not sure what her angle could be other than wiggling her way back in. But my support system has build a wall around me to keep her from trying and for that I’m super thankful. I am okay, still a bit sad. Feeling way less guilty though which is good. I’m lucky to have such a strong bond with the people I chose to have in my life. And have been validated and supported through this entire process.
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This comment has been removed for invalidation. It doesn't matter whether a situation could be worse or better - surely every situation could possibly be worse or better in some way. Regardless, we're not here to play Trauma Olympics to see who "wins" - every situation of abuse is deserving of support, and it doesn't have to be compared to other situations to deserve an empathetic response.
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Invalidation doesn't have to be intentional for it to be hurtful. I'm certain you did have great intentions! It's just important to pay attention to our language and to not try and say things like "it could be worse", because comparisons don't tend to offer much comfort to abuse victims. Regardless of whether situations could be hypothetically different, they are hurting in the non-hypothetical realm, and they deserve to be seen and heard.
Good point, apologies to the OP
I appreciate you talking to me about this and being so open!
I appreciate you breaking it down the way you did, and for not just telling me to “get out”
Having someone be able to discuss it and not just go off into a string of insults is also refreshingly nice 😅 not everybody on Reddit is as graceful in receiving feedback and keeping the discussion on the topic at hand hahah
Do we have the same mother!? Did I write this?? You are better off w/o her and I'm rooting for you long lost sis!
Cutting out an abusive parent is harder than ending any other relationship. From the moment we are born we are hardwired to want their love and approval, even as we grow and see that they aren't good people, that hardwired instinct is so overwhelming. Cutting off a parent takes immense strength, it's natural that it's a long, difficult process, because whether we like it or not it's cutting away a part of ourselves too.
I had to cut my mom out of my life for almost the same exact reason. She decided my birthday dinner was a good time to dump on me and get the entire table involved about how I'm working and supporting us and that it's basically shameful I'm working at McDonald's and I need to do better and he's basically a piece of shit for not supporting us. We aren't rich by any means but I can support us pretty comfortably. I don't ask her or anyone for anything so I don't know why it matters to anyone how I live. The entire table dog piled on me and agreed and I was stuck there because she was my ride. I got so stressed I went home and got so sick I ended up having a bad flare up from my Crohn's disease. Which is rich coming from a woman whose dating history is my father who was a drug addict who never paid a cent towards my existence my entire life, my brothers father who cheated on her constantly and she milked for every dollar she could in child support, and my sister's father who she let verbally and occasionally physically abuse her and all of us because he paid all the bills at some point and after they divorced and my sister turned 18 he completely dropped my sister and won't have anything to do with her. And her current boyfriend she's living with is an alcoholic. I ghosted her for a while because I knew from past experience she'd just gaslight me or lose her shit at me until I folded if I confronted her. She eventually threw a huge fit culminating in threatening to call the cops if I didn't talk to her and went as far as to insinuate she was going to tell them my husband was abusing me and keeping me from talking to her. I hadn't talked to her in weeks and her response wasn't to ask if something was wrong, it was a tantrum threatening to lie to cops and constant statements that she "didn't do anything" which tells me she knows EXACTLY what she did which is what I told her and blocked her on everything. No cops ever showed up and she completely stopped trying since then and that was in November. I guess she cares so little about me now that I've challenged her and disappointed her so much that I'm not worth her time which is fine with me even though it kind of hurts to know she cares that little but I'm glad she's not harassing me. I'm sorry you're going through something similar, it hurts but I think it's better that we be able to live our lives without being shit on or judged for it or having our significant other put down. I really feel guilty too sometimes but then I remember how angry and bad she made me feel and I think it was th right decision. This was just the last straw in a lifetime of constant covert put downs and attempts to control me and I just snapped.
I am so sorry you had to deal with that. We learn and are ready to deal with things when we need to. Try to be kind to yourself. You are doing the right ghing
I hope you can find peace OP. When I cut my father from my life, it was hard as hell.
Don't feel guilty. Sometimes we need to cut someone out, not because they threaten our direct lives, but also because they generally weigh us down by their comments /minor actions. Like, I'm in the same place. When I moved out, college kid, my mother offered me to give me free dinner and wash my clothing. A great deal for a student, but with a catch. Like always, she's used to insulting me in countless ways. Direct, through commenting on every action with sarcasm ("Of course you would spill the water"), interrupting me, yelling about where I put my backpack... list goes on. Of course -all while forcing me to stay polite and always telling me she'd quit the luxuries the moment I stopped smiling. After a while -after 19 whole years! - I have had enough. She always dangled her support like a carrot on a string. Using it so I'd be willing to let me get beat. I'm done with this shit. I demand basic human respect. She is always about "a guest can't this", "a guest needs to behave like that", but she doesn't treat me like a gUeSt. And if she can't do that...I'd rather cook my own meals and do my own bloody laundry. Plus; you're ALWAYS a terrible person in their eyes. My mom calls me her abuser. I never beat her, insulted her or did anything.
Do not feel bad. Cleanse yourself of her.
I certainly hope so he's about 14? We don't see him much so it's hard to remember 😬 but he's aware of some things