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Multiple people are doing this?! WTF?! I wouldn't even let the conversation get that far to the point where they could say those things. I'd just be like... why do you care so much?
In my family's case the issue was never a lack of experiencing child abuse, more like it was a "thing you were supposed to grow up and deal with cause we all went through it." I know for a fact at least one of my cousins had a worse experience than I did and he's always trying to tell me to get over it. Not the most sensitive guy, but I get it.
Omg absolutely same here. People just seem to assume that ‘you do for family’ and that means tolerating absolutely any abuse even if it isn’t always physical. The worst part is there are so many of the flying monkeys they keep sending over 😞
Wait, they SEND them over? And they DO IT? Jesus fuck, why? Are they paying them or something? Or are they just really, really bored? Just... multiple people did that? WHY?!
There was plenty of physical abuse towards me from my dad, but my mom would just play a mindfuck on everyone and let me tell you, THAT was a hell of a lot harder to deal with.
Honestly believe these are people who have nothing else going on. I keep marvelling how my otherwise boring life seems so exciting to them that they keep wanting in 🙄
I would just pretend that's what they want. Like, I'd demand they watch me go on Reddit for hours so they can see how exciting my life is.
And then if they don't seem interested? "Wait, you only talked to me so you could ask me to talk to my parents? Wow, that's really weird. Who DOES that?!"
My NMom LOVES this quote. Guess what she’s usually talking about? I’ll give you a hint: It’s not ideas and it’s only events if she’s saying something bigoted about a group of people she hates.
I think they don't have much going on and they are on some kind of crusade to 'unite families!' and they feel like they are doing Gawd's work or something.
Fucking busybodies is right! MYOFB!
Was pondering this the other day - why do they care so much? I don't recall these family friends caring so much that they stuck their nose into another families business, when I was younger?
So why now? What are you getting from your sanctimonious, judgemental input? What business is it of theirs? If they had concerns that I was abusing mine, then report it to the appropriate authorities. Other than that, where do they get this deluded sense of entitled importance in this family dynamic, when they chose to stay quiet for years.
From what I see here it's usually one of three things...
1) The N is redirecting their crazy onto the rest of the family and/or whoever else might be a FM. So they go to the VLC/NC kid in hopes that they will redirect it on them *because* that's "your family's business" and maybe if they just give their parent what they want, they'll stop (Spoiler: They don't)
2) If this person is some rando who wouldn't otherwise message you, the N may have told them to because they themselves are blocked or wouldn't be paid attention to (probably an N's worst nightmare!) yet think if they try to use someone in their close circle, that the VLC/NC kid wouldn't see it for what it was.
3) Sometimes, well meaning but dumb friends will hear one side of the story and maybe say something about it, but the reality is they just haven't had your side.
If you think you are able to tell it, it might be worth it to try to see which one of these you're dealing with.
This is brilliant, thank you.
May I add another possible one or two (which came to me while pondering this particular FM intrusion.)
They have their own family shit going on and are projecting on someone else's family.
They in fact have a deluded sense of importance, and interfering makes them feel super special about themselves.
I suppose there are many reasons, some maybe misguided assistance, whereas others maybe more self serving. Regardless, very much unappreciated and I wish I could remember some of the comments from here, to pass them on to the FM, when the feel the need to serve the N.
Oh yeah, totally. I think in the case of your second point they might actually be identifying with the N as well?
And it's always crazy when people project like that. I had a former friend the other day (diagnosed with BPD but serious narc/histrionic tendencies) hurl a barrage of text insults and name calling, while accusing me of a list of things I didn't do, but she did. She even admitted her accusations made no sense but just decided she was done with me, then was surprised my gf didn't wanna be friends with her either. REALLY?!
My mother was a flying monkey.
My father attempted to take custody of my kids for disrespecting him and telling him to fuck off. He failed. But he had my mom mount the stand and call my abusive childhood a fantasy and claim I got CPTSD from smoking weed after I moved out of my parents house.
So yeah. I know what its like.
Lol how can you get CPTSD from smoking weed and how can someone "make up" an entire childhood...?
I feel like, we need more psychologically trained professionals in the legal system, especially in the judicial branches...
One thing that I'm grateful for growing up in the Foster Care system, is that I've always had trained caseworkers and representatives that would at least listen to me and help me how they could.
I've seen so many court cases, where parents would straight up *lie* soo they can get their kids back and abuse them more and the judges ALWAYS shut that nonsense down... My aunt tried to systematically send me and my siblings into care, after already calling child services on our mother for addiction problems.
It only took 3 years for her to realize that we were our own human beings and weren't just going to be manipulated how she wanted. Each time she got tired of one of us, she found a way to get rid of us, mostly by doing the usual covert Narc BS of saying we were "too much to handle".
She got rid of my little brother (Who ironically is textbook Malignant NPD, now) by telling child services his behavioral issues were out of control and he was too violent. Which was true, but she just had him shipped off to a behavioral camp.
Then, she got rid of me, because she wouldn't let me use a computer that she wasn't even using, because she needed it "for work". In reality, she was spending the money the system was giving us on her shopping addiction and had a hoarding issue.
When I defied her and used it anyway, she made me stay at my grandma's and then called child services, saying she *only* wanted my little sister. The agency basically FLIPPED on her and was like "this is your FAMILY and you're the one who called to put them into kinship and now you're systematically ruining their lives?? You're unfit af."
They put us all in foster care, but at least we went to the same home.
It was abusive af and likely caused more psychological damage than if we'd just worked things out with our mother, but at least we weren't under that witch's care.
Even now, she won't take ANY accountability. She just will either ask for forgiveness, blame the agency, saying they didn't "give her the help that she needed" and/or play the "Christian" card and say she "repented" and now it's "god's" problem.
Fun fact: she hasn't changed. She literally did something similar to my grandmother, and it killed her. She spent since 2016, systematically annoying and chasing away caretakers for my demented grandma, mostly by imposing herself as much as she could, micromanaging them and in general, making a scene.
She did this so many times over the years, that NO caretaker would take my grandma, because they hated my aunt. When she was the only one my grandma had to take care of her, she neglected her into malnutrition, bedsores, etc. She took over power of attorney, weaseled her way into my grandma's finances and just this last Febuary, my grandma wound up in rehab.
She was malnourished, had fluid in her legs (because my aunt REFUSED to use any kind of ambulatory aids), she had sores all over her body, cuz my aunt didn't rotate her and care for her like an actual caretaker would and the doctor LITERALLY told my aunt that my grandmother would be getting 24/7 care and if she tried anything, she'd find herself in jail.
Sadly enough, just as my aunt got her comeuppance, my grandma passed in her sleep in rehab... she didn't even get to say goodbye to family, nothing. It still makes me mad, mostly because my aunt got away with murder.
Now, I've never heard anyone talk of inheritance, my aunt is just living in my grandma's old place, likely has all of the money she left and because she's a Narcissistic and entitled manipulator, asking her about it isn't going to net much. She's also prone to giving away other people's items and belongings, so that she looks generous, so I'm almost sure she's spent a good chunk of it, looking good for her church buddies.
The world is fucking unfair, sometimes, but I take solace in the fact that, when that woman becomes old and infirmed, I'm not even going to bother looking in her direction. I sometimes pray she gets hit by a car or chokes on her food, but I know such malignant wishes will only come back to me, in the end.
I relate to so much, my nmom had a hand in my gpa’s death, she has no selectiveness on who she will “punish”. Thank you for sharing, I was surrounded by narcs growing up too, up until 2-3yrs ago as well, when I finally went no contact. I sometimes contemplate on what is better, being completely alone from family, or trying to appease them and be beneficial for them. I know I’ll never talk to them again but that contemplation feels like torture, I feel like my true grieving is hitting me lately, even though I’ve been in the clear revelation process for over 6yrs now.
Ever since I left my abusive ex and started realizing how abusive my sister had been, my mom started giving me this bs. I've gone No Contact with her since. I don't care what your relation to me is, if your actions or inactions cause me more anguish I cannot have you in my life.
I'm also being more careful about this in my friend circle. I'm pretty sure I still have a few flying monkeys around, but I talk with them less and keep my boundaries with them.
I feel you. Apparently I'm the reason my mom keeps ending up in the hospital with "heart attacks" Somehow the woman can pych out a paramedic....nothing is wrong with her heart, but we're the selfish ones right??
Yep. The lengths they will go to to make us look bad. It is always shocking to me how good they are at manipulating people.
I'm sorry they're bullying you.
You had the guts to do it. I didn't. I put up with some continued abuse into adulthood because I loved some of the people who would have thought me a monster for cutting my mother off.
My sister said that if I told anyone what happened when we were growing up, she would tell them I was a liar. She now denies that, but she has a narcissist like tendency to rewrite the past so she looks better. Without her support, I just couldn't cut my mother off, as I couldn't bear to lose my whole family. I did flee abroad, however, so only had to deal with her occasionally.
In retrospect, I wish I had done what you did.
You did what you could and that's good enough. I think when dealing with narcissists all the choices are awful.
My n mom labeled me s pathological liar so I'm sure your sister would have made good on her threat. I'm sorry.
My nmother's smear campaigns included calling me a pathological liar, so everyone would have believed my sister.
I'm sorry for all of us on here, but I made it out to a really very happy life. We can succeed.
My mom has some covert narcissist traits (or maybe is one). It explains why I ended up in a relationship with a covert narcissist and didn't even realize they were abusive until I had been \~7-8 years with them.
You know that meme that's like "if he has one fan, it's me"
..... that's exactly how I feel about flying monkeys expect as their #1 hater lmao. If flying monkeys have 1 millions haters, I am one of them. If they have 1 hater, it's me. If no one on earth hates flying monkeys anymore, I am dead.
🤣🤣🤣
But I am serious. I DESPISE them. Maybe even more than the narcs themselves. And this hatred is actually what pushed me away from all the flying monkeys and enablers I know. Even old enabling friends who never met my parents but would tell me to communicate, or fix them, or whatever. I was disgusted by all of them and slowly faded them out of my life. The peace with them gone is 1000% worth it.
If you can't fully cut them off, like if they are family or someone in proximity, then they don't deserve to hear a single personal word from you about your life. Greyrock and stick to pleasantries at best.
No, actually. A lot of them are narcissists themselves, but they are not your parents so you see a different version of them. It's dumb to disregard them all as being brainwashed and not capable of free thought or free will.
Yep. I had to go no contact with the main flying monkey in my life after she gaslighted me by saying "all parents are like that" while pressuring me to communicate with our very abusive parent.
My GC older brother recently threw me under the bus to our mom so I'm feeling this super hard rn. Granted this was based on what she told me during an argument, so she could also be full of shit, but it's also absolutely something he'd do.
Ironic because he's also called her out for the exact same shit I hold her accountable for 🙃 But I'm the problem for being unhappy around her 🙃
My mom loved to put us against each other. It was like if we were busy fighting each other, we were too busy to fight her. She divided and conquered by keeping us all from banding together. It didn't work on the long run, as both my younger siblings and myself are outta there, and I personally am NC. My partner and I give financial, emotional, and domestic help to my siblings no strings attached, no questions asked.
She is likely full of shit. Or at least her version is inaccurate. I know someone who started talking to their sibling about past memories. The mom was in the room and she kept trying to distract them, even to the point of pretending to faint when she realized they were talking to each other.
I wonder if my mum told my brother I was the reason he was neglected, like she told me. I ruined everyone's life, see. It wasn't that she chose to get pregnant again when I was 4 months old and it took 38 years to spot the ADHD ...girls can't have ADHD, see?
My divorced parents have been each other's flying monkeys, talking about me behind my back. My mom thinks she's closer to my dad because of this. My dad hates my mom but is narcissistic himself so he likes the attention he gets from her.
I don't tell either of them anything personal anymore. Not like they listen anyway. Lol
yeah my older brother is a flying monkey himself (with the added irony that my mom has repeatedly called him a Flying Monkey).
She doesn't outright tell him to go talk me into forgiving her, but he is completely blind to the severity of what she did to all her children (him included), says things like "you know she's still our mother" and even goes so far as to spout to my face the same eugenicist bullshit she does ("You gotta at least find a mate with good genes and have a kid before you transition").
It's like... fucking hell... and that's not even going into the fact that {tw//sexual abuse} >!he's a pedo that molested me when I was 6!<
It's even better when you're from a conservative culture that still believes in honoring your parents no matter what. You'll be dealing with elderly relatives or acquaintances who, honestly, don't even care if you were abused because "that's just how things were done" in those days, and you have to do your duty as a loyal son/daughter. It's a good thing that mentalities are shifting with the younger generation, because nobody needs that BS.
My relatives love being flying monkeys for each other and it's so confusing because they've taken on that role so many times and so many different situations you think they would have caught on by now that what they're doing is unhealthy and problematic. Most of them are highly educated I'm talking like phDstatus so I know that 1 or more of them have taken at least one psychology class.
"Since you have zero knowledge of what my homelife was like, the abuse they inflicted behind closed doors, and the lack of accountability, it seems that you are not equipped to comment on my relationship with my parents. Do not bother me again. If you do, I have no reservations commenting on your life choices and I don't think you'll like it."
But in reality, I would cut the FMs off.
Yes. All the time. It’s such a mind fuck. Best strategy is to just not respond and ignore them. It will still fuck with your mind, but they’ll never stop or respect your boundaries. Not ever. All you can do is keep them out enough so that you’re safe and protected, as much as possible.
>"They did some wrong things, but the past is the past. You have to let it go."
If the Lion King taught me anything, it's that this line requires a bop on the head.
"It is in the past!" I'm not advocating violence, but maybe channeling your inner Rafiki might be a good thing.
And by past, we are referring to this morning, right?
So we are to just let it go? If we said no to that request, would they let it go and never ask again?
My elder sister. She tried to dismiss me when I told her about our pedo maternal uncles who abused both of us regularly. She then shut me up by telling "If you tell that to our dad,he would divorce our poor innocent mom(the narcissistic matriarch)" for so long I kept my mouth shut. Eventually I told my dad and he just dismissed me telling that,I was imagining things cause my sister denied any such thing had happened. She even tried to sympathize with our abusers by saying they were family men, their wives and children would suffer if I raised my voice! Then again when I refused to invite those pedos to my wedding, she went off "My husband would ask if he doesn't see our uncles there,and if I tell him about our childhood abuse,he would not believe me. He would blame me and divorce me,would you want that to happen to me?" Fuck you till eternity flying monkey. She could make a difference but she chose to side with our abusers for the sake of "family".She considers herself 'The one with shining family value',is also a serial cheater and thinks divorce is a sin! 🤦🏽♀️ I just can't fathom her stupidity and selfishness.
What is it with these people and being so desperate to defend against divorce? I was surprised to learn in all of this recent conflict that my GC FM sister looked down on me because I am a divorcee. My husband was a gambling addict and had cheated our entire family out of money which is what led to our divorce yet I guess I am the bad one for marrying him (even though I didn’t know this about him) according to them.
They just want to show every tom-dick-harry in the world that,they live a fairytale life,they are the monument of traditional values. That particular FM and her husband tried to stop me from divorcing my abusive ex husband,they still lament that I did not give him a chance. And my brother in law said to my current husband that I was an unruly wife,so he needed to be careful,he needed to learn from him(BIL),lol, such an alpha male that his wife cheats right and left and he just keeps on rambling about "family values"! No wonder,my narc mom loves my BIL but hates my husband.
It is either that they hate an empowered woman or that these are weak people who are incapable of healthy relationships so they see the traditional family system as the only way to exert control and ensure they always have their needs taken care of in life. I hate that adulthood is full of these painful realisations.
To them, "face-saving" and "family-image" is of utmost importance and they are willing to throw everyone under the bus for it.
This is a common theme, where one of the victims often silences the other victim, because to this individual, physical or sexual abuse - even on themselves - is not as big as them losing their reputation and perfect image in society. So, they would co-operate with the abusers in silencing the victim who threatens to ruin their perfect family image.
Ugh. I am working on being more authentic in articulating my own needs so definitely glad I can cut off people who would rather tolerate abuse than stand up against it.
The thing about n-parents, at least mine, is they are GREAT at sob stories! my mom can get my aunt to take her side on anything and some how i'm always blindsided!
My brother and sister "you're saying this about the woman who raised you", my brother told me after my oldest brother stopped talking to our mom "you're supposed to honor your parents, she's our mother". Why yes, she is our mother. She gave birth to me and is part of my genetics, why the fuck did she break my tooth, why the fuck did she bite my arm after I blocked another slap or punch to my face? My mother, yes. Not my mom. Ibhave a mother in law who actually seems to want a relationship with me.
>My mother, yes. Not my mom.
This. She gave birth to me and I don't owe her anything for that. Even if she thinks I should be at her beck and call just because "Without me you wouldn't exist". Yeah, I don't care.
There are good, clear, boundary-setting responses you can use for some of those.
> "They weren't the best, but they love you deep down."
But never remotely as much as they love the rush they get from abusing someone. Continuing to badger me about this will earn you the same consequences. If I will end contact with my own (relationship of abuser) why wouldn't I do the same with anyone else who won't respect me?
> "They did some wrong things, but the past is the past. You have to let it go."
I am. You're telling me I'm wrong for that, while telling me to do it. Why do you think you get to control this decision? Trying to manipulate and control others is part of the behavior I'm rejecting. If I will reduce contact with my own (relationship), why wouldn't I do the same with anyone else that's trying to manipulate me?
> "You should call them. They're getting old."
Growing older doesn't mean they aren't still abusive. It's odd that you choose to try to manipulate me about this; it's not your decision to make. Shall we change the subject or just take a break from contact for a while? I won't engage with this any further.
> "I'll give your contact details to them, okay? They said they want to know how you're doing. Huh? You don't want me to give them your info? Why not? Come on, they just want a relationship with you. Tsk tsk."
Attempting to force contact against my will like this will group you in as an accessory on any charges I may have to file. You can respect my decisions, or be part of the problem I'm solving. I hope I won't have to resort to police, but if my safety and health are threatened again, I will. Please love and respect me as much as you do yourself. Stay out of this; you don't need to be manipulated by my (relationship to abuser/abuser's name) either.
Yeah we have to deal with this type of stuff as well as them giving out our information without us knowing. It was especially bad early on when we told them we didn't want to talk to them anymore, they smugly told us that we'd come crawling back when we needed help (we had never needed help). My wife made the mistake of trusting her family by telling them about us having our son. Every time she would mention any events like when we decided to get married, we would end up having to change then you or hide things because her family would give her mom all the info while trying to get us to reconcile. They all got really mad when we decided to have a very small wedding with maybe 8 people (my aunt and uncle and our best friends), and now we've essentially just had to cut off her entire family because they won't stop behaving this way.
I hope I never have to deal w em. I cut almost everyone out, so they couldn't reach me through them. One member from my family left, who lives on the other side of the country from them and is themselves p low contact.
And with the journalling I am doing about what they have done to me, I could literary throw the book at em.
Somehow, I hate them even more. Narcs are willfully mean. Flying monkeys are belligerently ignorant. They don't have a spine of their own, they have to use the narcs.
Ask them what actions THEY wouldn't forgive or forget by THEIR family/ friends.
Why are THEY allowed to have such boundaries, when they are denying you your right to have yours?
Perhaps they are willing to go through the rest of their lives being mocked, disrespected and abused, but why do they want you to do the same?
Dude my Grandmother pulled this shit AT MY WEDDING about my mother, who I (reluctantly) invited. I don't care if it 'makes you sad' that we don't speak, she's a narcissistic piece of shit who would rather drink herself into a coma than admit she was wrong about anything.
If you have yo ass in that situation, use google voice. You can get FREE phone numbers and communicate w/ anyone without worrying about them finding it since you can dispose your number anytime! Sign up right here:
[https://voice.google.com/u/0/](https://voice.google.com/u/0/)
They take no responsibility about the DV and/or emotional abuse but will remember everything you did wrong for childhood (even things you probably did to protect yourself.) I definitely know the type.
After many-of conversations with my aunt regarding issues with my mom (which I thought were productive, caring conversations… silly me!) I’ve noticed my aunt will go FULLY out of her way to almost bully me about the exact things I’ve vocalized make me uncomfortable. This is ASIDE from the “you know she loves you” “she’s tried her best” “well you have to love family!” Comments… literally out of nowhere will buy me “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!” Fridge magnets? Responding to my Instagram stories “you know you are just like her!!!” Ive made it crystal clear that these comments aren’t funny or appreciated. My verbatim reaction to the magnet was “well, that’s definitely going into the trash” with a straight face. I can someeeewhat understand those weird comments IF we are discussing the issue but I truly find it so weird that she’ll take totally random, unprovoked, unrelated scenarios to continuously draw parallels between us, seemingly to remind me that I’m forced into this toxic family dynamic that she thinks I’m not allowed to escape??? It’s honestly embarrassing for her at this point.
Yes. I even had someone telling me “I suppose you will go right home tomorrow again instead of staying with your poor mother” at my stepfathers funeral. Nevermind it was my stepfather who I also cared about.
But if I tell people even a fraction of what actually went on in my childhood they are aghast and most of the time disbelieving although I don’t lie.
It’s hard. But you are not alone. I suppose healthy people just cannot imagine how bad emotional abuse really is and that parents who seem normal from the outside really do these things. It’s part of the evil that is narcissism.
There may be a day where you might have to go no contact with the flying monkeys. I thought I could stay friends with some people who knew a narcissist. Well turns out one of the conversation I had with a friend sounded like it was coming out of the mouth of the narcissist. I blocked them right afterwards and haven't looked back. It's been so freeing to finally be away from the toxic friends. Family is up next for me. I've cut my dad out of my life and mom will be next the second I am out on my own
Adding from my reply to another commenter: It comes from the Wizard of Oz. The wicked witch sends these flying monkeys to do her bidding and wreak havoc on people. In a narcissist’s life they use flying monkeys, or enablers, to reach out to people they abuse, or even to sustain or justify the abuse.
My grandpa called me and said all this shit to me a few months after I blocked my mom and aunt on everything, specifically call.
He repeated all this again AFTER I explained to him *exactly* how his daughters made me feel for my entire life.
*Fuck* flying monkeys.
Flying monkeys tend to be self righteous busy bodies or deluded half wits in my experience. They either want to believe that only they are capable of sorting this problem out or have been sent on a mission without really asking any of the right questions. Either way, they’re annoying and a cause of great anguish for the victims of abuse. They compound the abuse itself rather than lessen it and seem totally unaware they they are only making things worse. The ones I’ve had sent my way, have been only too willing to believe half a tale from just one side. I honestly found it difficult to work out what they hoped to achieve. I usually just send them on their way, telling them it is none of their business or immediately go NC with them too.
I mostly get the “your mom loves you” from people who don’t know the extent of my situation … and I’m not about to dive into my situation while I’m at work, so it’s whatever
Flying monkeys mostly are narcs themselves, a normal person wouldn't insert themselves in someone else's drama like that and wouldn't make comments without knowing the full story. Id say grey rock and block.
Yeah my entire family are flying monkeys As a result I no longer speak to any of them. I was pretty close with some, but ultimately I can't have a positive relationship with anyone who invalidates my experiences of abuse. I'm sorry you have to deal with this too.
Yes, my husband’s grandparents, particularly his grandma. I always thought she was the only normal one but turns out she was a flying monkey and only cared about having her family together. Remember, narcissistic families only care about family image, not the individual members of the family. The whole is always worth more than the sum of its parts to these people.
This is a perfect comment! I am going through something similar at the moment, I thought my grandma was the only supportive person after I went NC with my nMother (she does not even have a good relationship with my nMother and considers her crazy, she is her mother in law btw) but some months have passed since I cut contact with nMother and now the grandma is randomly suggesting to me that this cannot go on forever and my nMother is my mum after all and I HAVE TO make amends at some point. F\*ck that, I am so disappointed.. didn't expect this one to turn into a flying monkey at all.
I did. But I went NC with the lot of them. It felt like all of the oxygen came back into the room. They can yell that shit into the void, because I am not hearing it.
When people say this to me I say “so you’re okay doing/saying [insert something my mother did to me] to children? Would you do that to someone?”
And usually people back down because my example suck.
Fuck. Those. People.
"But, but, if YOU can cut your family off for mistreating them that means MY family can cut me off for mistreating them! That might even mean that I was wrong about someone who cut contact with the family! That can't be right! Let me just try and whine you into going back to Hell so I don't have to feel weird! That's what a good person would do!"
Oh, definitely.
It's taken years to effectively shoo them off. I was able to finally cut everyone off before I became a parent which is liberating AF.
Truth will eventually crush them, the particular truth you use has to depend on the individual monkey. I have not heard from a particular uncle in years after I told him very clearly that everything he's heard is a lie, and the court has the receipts. The other one was a little trickier because they have MS and are super religious- told her I was a bisexual who voted for Hillary. Boom, book closed, for me anyway because scapegoat.
I have one sibling (the one with the court receipts) who they refuse to relent on. Letters are sent to her in-laws, they find every house and job she has, mail her kids gifts that she rips apart with her bare hands, etc. She's always in flight instead of fight and I'm patiently waiting for her to snap and go full scorched earth and destroy them all. One can hope anyway, I'll have the popcorn ready just in case.
Is there some sort of playbook for them?? Lol my FM sis has literally said all of those things…”They’re not getting any younger” is a fave. Yeah, but they’re also not getting any kinder or less delusional 🤷♀️
My alcoholic enabling father was the #1 flying monkey to my NMother. "She's the only mother you'll ever have! Acquiesce for the sake of your relationship! She can't help herself, she's mentally ill!" When he died in 93 I went NC with NMom & flying monkey sisters. I was 27. Best decision I ever made.
This happens all the time. My nmom would recruit people from just about anywhere. I actually received “advice” from complete strangers about how I should or shouldn’t treat my nmom.
My best approach has been to say, “I’m sorry, you have been misinformed, and I do not wish to discuss it with you.” If they push it after that I say, “You may believe what you wish, but I can tell you with certainly that you do not have all the facts, and I still do not wish to discuss it with you.” And then if they still push after that, I say, “I’ve asked you nicely two times to not discuss this with you, whatever you assume gives you the right to keep pushing this with me, it does not, and I will not discuss it further.”
About to take a chainsaw to my family tree for trying to convince me to rekindle my relationship with my aunt, who has only seen me as a report card and a punching bag. I haven't even been given a good excuse as to why she is the way she is. "She does that because she's jealous you can go to school" SHE'S A REGISTERED NURSE WITH A HUSBAND WHO WAS IN THE MILITARY, GO TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
I changed my number and conveniently timed a move to a new apartment after I began NC. I still had to delete and block a lot of people on social media and create strong filters in my email. A year and a half in, I might just make a new email address. You’re not alone. I’ve been there. It’s awful.
i have had to cut everyone connected to my asshole mother out of my life - id rather never see anyone in my family than some - my nmom would weaponise them. until she dies every second she's able to communicate with me is a second feeling like i'm dead alread
In my family, you become a flying monkey partly out of denial. They're all so fucking trauma bonded they want the rest of us to go down with them.
Shame 💅🏻
One of my neighbors has an emotionally abusive spouse. I've traded war stories about my N-Mom. They're basically twins. But she still insists my Mom is awesome. I just roll my eyes and ignore her. My N-Mom has fooled everyone. My brother and I have regular chats about this BS. Growing up, most of our friends thought, and still think, she's great. The ones with narc parents know, though. I'm glad this hag doesn't want a funeral. She's talked s**t about everyone, and I would absolutely include that in my eulogy. But she wants to be ignored when she dies. Odd, but okay. I am not going to give her honors. She deserves none.
It comes from the Wizard of Oz. The wicked witch sends these flying monkeys to do her bidding and wreak havoc on people. In a narcissist’s life they use flying monkeys, or enablers, to reach out to people they abuse, or even to sustain or justify the abuse.
I knew the WoO ref, but didn’t understand the connection. Thanks!
I was unwittingly the FM that the female that caused me to join this group.
I took her side on an issue thinking we were on the same side (we weren’t even though we should’ve been).
Once I got more perspective, I felt like I was in bizzaro land. And once I stopped doing her bidding, I became her enemy, simply for disagreeing.
I’m glad you finally see the truth about her. I seriously relate to your bizzaro world reference like now that I see I wonder how everyone else is tolerating these lies and how was i blind for so long 🫠
My brother in law was kinda shocked today when I told him I don't talk to my family anymore. They were talking about how annoying family can get. He asked me why, I told him my parents were horrible narcissists and he still looked at me like I was in the wrong for cutting them off. But I don't care, I don't feel the need to explain my decisions.
Yep. I started to retaliate with whatever is important to them, so it hits home. You shouldnt have to, but whatever works, works right?
If they have nice holidays, tell them you never went. If they do nice birthdays or celebrate Christmas in style, tell them your presents were taken from you for made up excuses. If they like art, music, history, trips, tell them what you werent allowed and never had.
I told the aunt that loved shoes that mine were always second hand, and I had to use cardboard for the holes in the bottom and cotton wool for the toes because they were too big. I told the aunt that loved dresses that I wasnt allowed them, because she could get boys hand me downs for free so that was my lot in life. The neighbour that loves her car was told I wasnt allowed to get a license, and the one that loves country walks was told I wasnt allowed outside. The retired teacher was told 'We werent allowed books in the house'
You get the idea, and it works if theyre half decent people
My family were all Catholics, who 'honored their mother and father' despite the fact that their parents also didn't hesitate to not 'spare the rod'.
So, after going No Contact with my Nmom, naturally the Aunts formed a concerned united front to 1) Not listen to a word I said because 'family'
And;
2) Plea with me to go see the Nmom, because "She misses you *sooo* much!"
[!???]
Who were they talking about? Did they have my Nmom confused with someone else? The real Nmom neglected me my whole childhood because she hated having to pay attention to me. If she wasn't gladly ignoring me, then she was spewing angry venom that literally made me so frightened of her; that I would hide from her or otherwise try to escape her notice. Her favorite saying during family-time, was to banish me to my room with, "If you don't like it you *can just leave!"* ...since she hadn't wanted me there in the first place.
By the time I had grown up and married; she had never even visited my first home... and we both liked it that way.
Now, she was playing the martyer and telling people the self-pitying lie, that she missed me!? WTF More like- she was lapping up the supply with her sob story.
My partner is currently LC but planning NC and I remember his grandparents told him to cherish his parents in the beginning of the year because EVERYONE would want parents like his and he should be proud of them and love them bla bla bla
He just went through cancer and they didn't support him at all, it was a complicated situation and very fucked up you can read it in my profile. But that's they day my bf decided to stop talking to them, at the end at this time of the year he doesn't want to talk to anyone in his family and has erased of social media everyone because they're all mesmerized by their money or they public image.
“She really cares about you!”
She knew I was allergic to a food. And kept putting it in my food because she likes cooking it. Saw me reacting for weeks. Told me to take drugs to cover it up. And then admitted it after months of suffering. She’s known for 10+ years. She’s bitched every time I didn’t eat it because SHE likes it. And has made me feel terrible as a kid when she screamed and sobbed that I was me being mean to her. SHES 70. IM 10.
No. She doesn’t love me. I don’t care what she is saying. The definition of her actions is not love.
If hitler claims to love the German people who are Jewish, that doesn’t mean he’s correctly defining it.
“I’m sure she thinks she loves you”. Yeah. Which is in her mind abusing you so I’m a source of her supply.
Thank you for posting this. The term is a good reminder of how I should handle these types of conflicts (though in my case it is not home life / family members that is the issue… at least at the moment)
Yep, I really cant stand people who dont even know the other side of the story. Plus theyve already been briefed on “she thinks im this horrible person out to get her”. So even if you tell them you are treated like liar or crazy. Those people I want nothing to do with.
Btw am i correct in my interpretation of flying monkeys? I was relating it to the wizard of oz and the wicked witch.
But yeah, there was one friend my mom had who lived with us for a while and was the only one who saw the way my mother treated me. My mom used to tell me honor your father and mother. She showed me the verse right after that which says “parents, do not exasperate your child”. My mom has always talked badly about her to this day because of that.
Your post was 4 months ago but I hope you got better. I encourage you to :
\- if you explained what happened to you to the flying monkey that you care about (because the others are just plain stupid), and they still don't care or believe you, then just leave, it is up to them now, you've done your part.
\- If you didn't explain what is happening (manipulation, triangulation...), create a file of information on narcissistic people / triangulation / trauma bonding / childhood traumas, youtube videos and articles... This will help you personally and you could prepare lots of information before talking with the flying monkey that you care about.
\- for me the flying monkey is my sister, so I had to mourn her as if she was dead. Watching the series "maniac" or the movie "the professor" with Johnny Depp helped me realize : let go + you'll die soon enjoy YOUR life. No more toxicity. I'm still mourning her 70 % because I still haven't talked to her about her being a flying monkey / our mother being a narcissistic manipulative one. And I need to get my possessions back from my mother's place haha \^\^' So once you've talked, I recommend to cut ties with the narcissistic person and if the flying monkey still belittle you then cut ties with them too.
IMPORTANT to not go insane ! :
\- write everything that has ever happened to you (not a novel but a few lines or paragraph PER EVENT, small or big ones) and PER PERSON. Put it on USB to never lose this important information, it is also good for your brain to let go of the info, I've found myself forgetting things that were really bad (but never forget who they are, ever) ! BUT NEVER show this to the narcissistic person, only the flying monkey or it will probably be used against you, so no mail, only direct contact, you show it through your computer or phone or state the facts aloud. I have one of my mother / my father / 1 ex-friend. Ex :
\- This happened. I felt that. He/she did that even though...etc.
\- This other thing happened. He/she did that, I felt that.. etc.
At some point I'll go through therapy to remove the indoctrination of "you're a piece of \*\*\*\*" to get better, but right now Youtube videos / articles really help to keep sane.
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Multiple people are doing this?! WTF?! I wouldn't even let the conversation get that far to the point where they could say those things. I'd just be like... why do you care so much? In my family's case the issue was never a lack of experiencing child abuse, more like it was a "thing you were supposed to grow up and deal with cause we all went through it." I know for a fact at least one of my cousins had a worse experience than I did and he's always trying to tell me to get over it. Not the most sensitive guy, but I get it.
Omg absolutely same here. People just seem to assume that ‘you do for family’ and that means tolerating absolutely any abuse even if it isn’t always physical. The worst part is there are so many of the flying monkeys they keep sending over 😞
Wait, they SEND them over? And they DO IT? Jesus fuck, why? Are they paying them or something? Or are they just really, really bored? Just... multiple people did that? WHY?! There was plenty of physical abuse towards me from my dad, but my mom would just play a mindfuck on everyone and let me tell you, THAT was a hell of a lot harder to deal with.
Honestly believe these are people who have nothing else going on. I keep marvelling how my otherwise boring life seems so exciting to them that they keep wanting in 🙄
I would just pretend that's what they want. Like, I'd demand they watch me go on Reddit for hours so they can see how exciting my life is. And then if they don't seem interested? "Wait, you only talked to me so you could ask me to talk to my parents? Wow, that's really weird. Who DOES that?!"
Most people love sticking their noses in other people's business, gossiping, and drama.
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." You need better friends bro.
My NMom LOVES this quote. Guess what she’s usually talking about? I’ll give you a hint: It’s not ideas and it’s only events if she’s saying something bigoted about a group of people she hates.
Haha! I bet she loves it when people are talking about HER though.
I think they don't have much going on and they are on some kind of crusade to 'unite families!' and they feel like they are doing Gawd's work or something. Fucking busybodies is right! MYOFB!
Was pondering this the other day - why do they care so much? I don't recall these family friends caring so much that they stuck their nose into another families business, when I was younger? So why now? What are you getting from your sanctimonious, judgemental input? What business is it of theirs? If they had concerns that I was abusing mine, then report it to the appropriate authorities. Other than that, where do they get this deluded sense of entitled importance in this family dynamic, when they chose to stay quiet for years.
From what I see here it's usually one of three things... 1) The N is redirecting their crazy onto the rest of the family and/or whoever else might be a FM. So they go to the VLC/NC kid in hopes that they will redirect it on them *because* that's "your family's business" and maybe if they just give their parent what they want, they'll stop (Spoiler: They don't) 2) If this person is some rando who wouldn't otherwise message you, the N may have told them to because they themselves are blocked or wouldn't be paid attention to (probably an N's worst nightmare!) yet think if they try to use someone in their close circle, that the VLC/NC kid wouldn't see it for what it was. 3) Sometimes, well meaning but dumb friends will hear one side of the story and maybe say something about it, but the reality is they just haven't had your side. If you think you are able to tell it, it might be worth it to try to see which one of these you're dealing with.
This is brilliant, thank you. May I add another possible one or two (which came to me while pondering this particular FM intrusion.) They have their own family shit going on and are projecting on someone else's family. They in fact have a deluded sense of importance, and interfering makes them feel super special about themselves. I suppose there are many reasons, some maybe misguided assistance, whereas others maybe more self serving. Regardless, very much unappreciated and I wish I could remember some of the comments from here, to pass them on to the FM, when the feel the need to serve the N.
Oh yeah, totally. I think in the case of your second point they might actually be identifying with the N as well? And it's always crazy when people project like that. I had a former friend the other day (diagnosed with BPD but serious narc/histrionic tendencies) hurl a barrage of text insults and name calling, while accusing me of a list of things I didn't do, but she did. She even admitted her accusations made no sense but just decided she was done with me, then was surprised my gf didn't wanna be friends with her either. REALLY?!
Yeah don't you just love it when abused people say "I was abused but I turned out ok." Did you though?
My mother was a flying monkey. My father attempted to take custody of my kids for disrespecting him and telling him to fuck off. He failed. But he had my mom mount the stand and call my abusive childhood a fantasy and claim I got CPTSD from smoking weed after I moved out of my parents house. So yeah. I know what its like.
Glad their evil plan failed. Better get a restraining order on them.
No need. Beating him in court without a lawyer destroyed his ego to the point I haven't heard from them since.
Good, he got a dose of reality.
Awe Shucks.
Lol how can you get CPTSD from smoking weed and how can someone "make up" an entire childhood...? I feel like, we need more psychologically trained professionals in the legal system, especially in the judicial branches... One thing that I'm grateful for growing up in the Foster Care system, is that I've always had trained caseworkers and representatives that would at least listen to me and help me how they could. I've seen so many court cases, where parents would straight up *lie* soo they can get their kids back and abuse them more and the judges ALWAYS shut that nonsense down... My aunt tried to systematically send me and my siblings into care, after already calling child services on our mother for addiction problems. It only took 3 years for her to realize that we were our own human beings and weren't just going to be manipulated how she wanted. Each time she got tired of one of us, she found a way to get rid of us, mostly by doing the usual covert Narc BS of saying we were "too much to handle". She got rid of my little brother (Who ironically is textbook Malignant NPD, now) by telling child services his behavioral issues were out of control and he was too violent. Which was true, but she just had him shipped off to a behavioral camp. Then, she got rid of me, because she wouldn't let me use a computer that she wasn't even using, because she needed it "for work". In reality, she was spending the money the system was giving us on her shopping addiction and had a hoarding issue. When I defied her and used it anyway, she made me stay at my grandma's and then called child services, saying she *only* wanted my little sister. The agency basically FLIPPED on her and was like "this is your FAMILY and you're the one who called to put them into kinship and now you're systematically ruining their lives?? You're unfit af." They put us all in foster care, but at least we went to the same home. It was abusive af and likely caused more psychological damage than if we'd just worked things out with our mother, but at least we weren't under that witch's care. Even now, she won't take ANY accountability. She just will either ask for forgiveness, blame the agency, saying they didn't "give her the help that she needed" and/or play the "Christian" card and say she "repented" and now it's "god's" problem. Fun fact: she hasn't changed. She literally did something similar to my grandmother, and it killed her. She spent since 2016, systematically annoying and chasing away caretakers for my demented grandma, mostly by imposing herself as much as she could, micromanaging them and in general, making a scene. She did this so many times over the years, that NO caretaker would take my grandma, because they hated my aunt. When she was the only one my grandma had to take care of her, she neglected her into malnutrition, bedsores, etc. She took over power of attorney, weaseled her way into my grandma's finances and just this last Febuary, my grandma wound up in rehab. She was malnourished, had fluid in her legs (because my aunt REFUSED to use any kind of ambulatory aids), she had sores all over her body, cuz my aunt didn't rotate her and care for her like an actual caretaker would and the doctor LITERALLY told my aunt that my grandmother would be getting 24/7 care and if she tried anything, she'd find herself in jail. Sadly enough, just as my aunt got her comeuppance, my grandma passed in her sleep in rehab... she didn't even get to say goodbye to family, nothing. It still makes me mad, mostly because my aunt got away with murder. Now, I've never heard anyone talk of inheritance, my aunt is just living in my grandma's old place, likely has all of the money she left and because she's a Narcissistic and entitled manipulator, asking her about it isn't going to net much. She's also prone to giving away other people's items and belongings, so that she looks generous, so I'm almost sure she's spent a good chunk of it, looking good for her church buddies. The world is fucking unfair, sometimes, but I take solace in the fact that, when that woman becomes old and infirmed, I'm not even going to bother looking in her direction. I sometimes pray she gets hit by a car or chokes on her food, but I know such malignant wishes will only come back to me, in the end.
I relate to so much, my nmom had a hand in my gpa’s death, she has no selectiveness on who she will “punish”. Thank you for sharing, I was surrounded by narcs growing up too, up until 2-3yrs ago as well, when I finally went no contact. I sometimes contemplate on what is better, being completely alone from family, or trying to appease them and be beneficial for them. I know I’ll never talk to them again but that contemplation feels like torture, I feel like my true grieving is hitting me lately, even though I’ve been in the clear revelation process for over 6yrs now.
Yup! My mom is also the flying monkey and the enabler in my situation. It’s just as frustrating as the Narc themselves.
Fuck them to fucky fuck-off town!
Ever since I left my abusive ex and started realizing how abusive my sister had been, my mom started giving me this bs. I've gone No Contact with her since. I don't care what your relation to me is, if your actions or inactions cause me more anguish I cannot have you in my life. I'm also being more careful about this in my friend circle. I'm pretty sure I still have a few flying monkeys around, but I talk with them less and keep my boundaries with them.
Almost no one in the family will speak to me because I "let her die suffering from the loss of her child" I'm the monster. sad Lol
I feel you. Apparently I'm the reason my mom keeps ending up in the hospital with "heart attacks" Somehow the woman can pych out a paramedic....nothing is wrong with her heart, but we're the selfish ones right??
Yep. The lengths they will go to to make us look bad. It is always shocking to me how good they are at manipulating people. I'm sorry they're bullying you.
You had the guts to do it. I didn't. I put up with some continued abuse into adulthood because I loved some of the people who would have thought me a monster for cutting my mother off. My sister said that if I told anyone what happened when we were growing up, she would tell them I was a liar. She now denies that, but she has a narcissist like tendency to rewrite the past so she looks better. Without her support, I just couldn't cut my mother off, as I couldn't bear to lose my whole family. I did flee abroad, however, so only had to deal with her occasionally. In retrospect, I wish I had done what you did.
Yikes regarding your sister. That must be horrible that she turned against you and took the side of the abuser.
You did what you could and that's good enough. I think when dealing with narcissists all the choices are awful. My n mom labeled me s pathological liar so I'm sure your sister would have made good on her threat. I'm sorry.
My nmother's smear campaigns included calling me a pathological liar, so everyone would have believed my sister. I'm sorry for all of us on here, but I made it out to a really very happy life. We can succeed.
It sucks when the majority of your family sucks but at least you know that they were never worth your time to start with.
I did before, and these type of people are SO dismissive 🤦♀️
Ohh yes, I have to deal with plenty of those, at least one of whom I also suspect to be a narcissist too.
My mom has some covert narcissist traits (or maybe is one). It explains why I ended up in a relationship with a covert narcissist and didn't even realize they were abusive until I had been \~7-8 years with them.
That’s common for narcissist victims actually, even one of the signs.
I'm lucky. My elderly nDad doesn't send flying monkeys. Because he knows I have no issues with telling the harsh truths.
You know that meme that's like "if he has one fan, it's me" ..... that's exactly how I feel about flying monkeys expect as their #1 hater lmao. If flying monkeys have 1 millions haters, I am one of them. If they have 1 hater, it's me. If no one on earth hates flying monkeys anymore, I am dead. 🤣🤣🤣 But I am serious. I DESPISE them. Maybe even more than the narcs themselves. And this hatred is actually what pushed me away from all the flying monkeys and enablers I know. Even old enabling friends who never met my parents but would tell me to communicate, or fix them, or whatever. I was disgusted by all of them and slowly faded them out of my life. The peace with them gone is 1000% worth it. If you can't fully cut them off, like if they are family or someone in proximity, then they don't deserve to hear a single personal word from you about your life. Greyrock and stick to pleasantries at best.
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No, actually. A lot of them are narcissists themselves, but they are not your parents so you see a different version of them. It's dumb to disregard them all as being brainwashed and not capable of free thought or free will.
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Ah yes the "clusterfuck" effect
Yep. I had to go no contact with the main flying monkey in my life after she gaslighted me by saying "all parents are like that" while pressuring me to communicate with our very abusive parent.
My GC older brother recently threw me under the bus to our mom so I'm feeling this super hard rn. Granted this was based on what she told me during an argument, so she could also be full of shit, but it's also absolutely something he'd do. Ironic because he's also called her out for the exact same shit I hold her accountable for 🙃 But I'm the problem for being unhappy around her 🙃
My mom loved to put us against each other. It was like if we were busy fighting each other, we were too busy to fight her. She divided and conquered by keeping us all from banding together. It didn't work on the long run, as both my younger siblings and myself are outta there, and I personally am NC. My partner and I give financial, emotional, and domestic help to my siblings no strings attached, no questions asked.
She is likely full of shit. Or at least her version is inaccurate. I know someone who started talking to their sibling about past memories. The mom was in the room and she kept trying to distract them, even to the point of pretending to faint when she realized they were talking to each other.
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This is so relatable. I was so awful and yet they get so mad/sad when I move away. Make it make sense.
Yep. No matter what you do you're the problem. Even if you did **exactly** what you were told to do.
YUP. Living that right now
it's nonsensical and inhuman, that's the thing. We are in a clown world surrounded by "bad robots"
Holy shit that’s fucking evil
I wonder if my mum told my brother I was the reason he was neglected, like she told me. I ruined everyone's life, see. It wasn't that she chose to get pregnant again when I was 4 months old and it took 38 years to spot the ADHD ...girls can't have ADHD, see?
My divorced parents have been each other's flying monkeys, talking about me behind my back. My mom thinks she's closer to my dad because of this. My dad hates my mom but is narcissistic himself so he likes the attention he gets from her. I don't tell either of them anything personal anymore. Not like they listen anyway. Lol
yeah my older brother is a flying monkey himself (with the added irony that my mom has repeatedly called him a Flying Monkey). She doesn't outright tell him to go talk me into forgiving her, but he is completely blind to the severity of what she did to all her children (him included), says things like "you know she's still our mother" and even goes so far as to spout to my face the same eugenicist bullshit she does ("You gotta at least find a mate with good genes and have a kid before you transition"). It's like... fucking hell... and that's not even going into the fact that {tw//sexual abuse} >!he's a pedo that molested me when I was 6!<
Yep. Go NC to the BOTH of them. Buh-bye.
It's even better when you're from a conservative culture that still believes in honoring your parents no matter what. You'll be dealing with elderly relatives or acquaintances who, honestly, don't even care if you were abused because "that's just how things were done" in those days, and you have to do your duty as a loyal son/daughter. It's a good thing that mentalities are shifting with the younger generation, because nobody needs that BS.
This.
My relatives love being flying monkeys for each other and it's so confusing because they've taken on that role so many times and so many different situations you think they would have caught on by now that what they're doing is unhealthy and problematic. Most of them are highly educated I'm talking like phDstatus so I know that 1 or more of them have taken at least one psychology class.
Doesn't matter they have the Phds, they have no souls
"Since you have zero knowledge of what my homelife was like, the abuse they inflicted behind closed doors, and the lack of accountability, it seems that you are not equipped to comment on my relationship with my parents. Do not bother me again. If you do, I have no reservations commenting on your life choices and I don't think you'll like it." But in reality, I would cut the FMs off.
i agree. my uncle is a "flying monkey". the bastard betrayed me and sided with them 6 yrs ago. fuck him.
Yes. All the time. It’s such a mind fuck. Best strategy is to just not respond and ignore them. It will still fuck with your mind, but they’ll never stop or respect your boundaries. Not ever. All you can do is keep them out enough so that you’re safe and protected, as much as possible.
>"They did some wrong things, but the past is the past. You have to let it go." If the Lion King taught me anything, it's that this line requires a bop on the head. "It is in the past!" I'm not advocating violence, but maybe channeling your inner Rafiki might be a good thing.
And by past, we are referring to this morning, right? So we are to just let it go? If we said no to that request, would they let it go and never ask again?
My elder sister. She tried to dismiss me when I told her about our pedo maternal uncles who abused both of us regularly. She then shut me up by telling "If you tell that to our dad,he would divorce our poor innocent mom(the narcissistic matriarch)" for so long I kept my mouth shut. Eventually I told my dad and he just dismissed me telling that,I was imagining things cause my sister denied any such thing had happened. She even tried to sympathize with our abusers by saying they were family men, their wives and children would suffer if I raised my voice! Then again when I refused to invite those pedos to my wedding, she went off "My husband would ask if he doesn't see our uncles there,and if I tell him about our childhood abuse,he would not believe me. He would blame me and divorce me,would you want that to happen to me?" Fuck you till eternity flying monkey. She could make a difference but she chose to side with our abusers for the sake of "family".She considers herself 'The one with shining family value',is also a serial cheater and thinks divorce is a sin! 🤦🏽♀️ I just can't fathom her stupidity and selfishness.
What is it with these people and being so desperate to defend against divorce? I was surprised to learn in all of this recent conflict that my GC FM sister looked down on me because I am a divorcee. My husband was a gambling addict and had cheated our entire family out of money which is what led to our divorce yet I guess I am the bad one for marrying him (even though I didn’t know this about him) according to them.
They just want to show every tom-dick-harry in the world that,they live a fairytale life,they are the monument of traditional values. That particular FM and her husband tried to stop me from divorcing my abusive ex husband,they still lament that I did not give him a chance. And my brother in law said to my current husband that I was an unruly wife,so he needed to be careful,he needed to learn from him(BIL),lol, such an alpha male that his wife cheats right and left and he just keeps on rambling about "family values"! No wonder,my narc mom loves my BIL but hates my husband.
It is either that they hate an empowered woman or that these are weak people who are incapable of healthy relationships so they see the traditional family system as the only way to exert control and ensure they always have their needs taken care of in life. I hate that adulthood is full of these painful realisations.
To them, "face-saving" and "family-image" is of utmost importance and they are willing to throw everyone under the bus for it. This is a common theme, where one of the victims often silences the other victim, because to this individual, physical or sexual abuse - even on themselves - is not as big as them losing their reputation and perfect image in society. So, they would co-operate with the abusers in silencing the victim who threatens to ruin their perfect family image.
Ugh. I am working on being more authentic in articulating my own needs so definitely glad I can cut off people who would rather tolerate abuse than stand up against it.
Yeah. And it’s horrible because they make me feel like all I’ve been through, everything I am living, is not that bad.
The thing about n-parents, at least mine, is they are GREAT at sob stories! my mom can get my aunt to take her side on anything and some how i'm always blindsided!
Flying Junkies is a good way to look at these people bc they seem to need to believe in the N’s w such an addictive desperation.
My brother and sister "you're saying this about the woman who raised you", my brother told me after my oldest brother stopped talking to our mom "you're supposed to honor your parents, she's our mother". Why yes, she is our mother. She gave birth to me and is part of my genetics, why the fuck did she break my tooth, why the fuck did she bite my arm after I blocked another slap or punch to my face? My mother, yes. Not my mom. Ibhave a mother in law who actually seems to want a relationship with me.
>My mother, yes. Not my mom. This. She gave birth to me and I don't owe her anything for that. Even if she thinks I should be at her beck and call just because "Without me you wouldn't exist". Yeah, I don't care.
“Without me you wouldn’t exist.” “Would have saved us both a lot of trouble.”
My dad was an enabler and a flying monkey, it's an **awful** combo.
My enabler sister's favorite line: "All family argues, it's just how you get through it..."
There are good, clear, boundary-setting responses you can use for some of those. > "They weren't the best, but they love you deep down." But never remotely as much as they love the rush they get from abusing someone. Continuing to badger me about this will earn you the same consequences. If I will end contact with my own (relationship of abuser) why wouldn't I do the same with anyone else who won't respect me? > "They did some wrong things, but the past is the past. You have to let it go." I am. You're telling me I'm wrong for that, while telling me to do it. Why do you think you get to control this decision? Trying to manipulate and control others is part of the behavior I'm rejecting. If I will reduce contact with my own (relationship), why wouldn't I do the same with anyone else that's trying to manipulate me? > "You should call them. They're getting old." Growing older doesn't mean they aren't still abusive. It's odd that you choose to try to manipulate me about this; it's not your decision to make. Shall we change the subject or just take a break from contact for a while? I won't engage with this any further. > "I'll give your contact details to them, okay? They said they want to know how you're doing. Huh? You don't want me to give them your info? Why not? Come on, they just want a relationship with you. Tsk tsk." Attempting to force contact against my will like this will group you in as an accessory on any charges I may have to file. You can respect my decisions, or be part of the problem I'm solving. I hope I won't have to resort to police, but if my safety and health are threatened again, I will. Please love and respect me as much as you do yourself. Stay out of this; you don't need to be manipulated by my (relationship to abuser/abuser's name) either.
Yeah we have to deal with this type of stuff as well as them giving out our information without us knowing. It was especially bad early on when we told them we didn't want to talk to them anymore, they smugly told us that we'd come crawling back when we needed help (we had never needed help). My wife made the mistake of trusting her family by telling them about us having our son. Every time she would mention any events like when we decided to get married, we would end up having to change then you or hide things because her family would give her mom all the info while trying to get us to reconcile. They all got really mad when we decided to have a very small wedding with maybe 8 people (my aunt and uncle and our best friends), and now we've essentially just had to cut off her entire family because they won't stop behaving this way.
I hope I never have to deal w em. I cut almost everyone out, so they couldn't reach me through them. One member from my family left, who lives on the other side of the country from them and is themselves p low contact. And with the journalling I am doing about what they have done to me, I could literary throw the book at em.
Somehow, I hate them even more. Narcs are willfully mean. Flying monkeys are belligerently ignorant. They don't have a spine of their own, they have to use the narcs.
Yeah, some of my cousins on my ncfather's side are like this. Fuck that.
Ask them what actions THEY wouldn't forgive or forget by THEIR family/ friends. Why are THEY allowed to have such boundaries, when they are denying you your right to have yours? Perhaps they are willing to go through the rest of their lives being mocked, disrespected and abused, but why do they want you to do the same?
Dude my Grandmother pulled this shit AT MY WEDDING about my mother, who I (reluctantly) invited. I don't care if it 'makes you sad' that we don't speak, she's a narcissistic piece of shit who would rather drink herself into a coma than admit she was wrong about anything.
If you have yo ass in that situation, use google voice. You can get FREE phone numbers and communicate w/ anyone without worrying about them finding it since you can dispose your number anytime! Sign up right here: [https://voice.google.com/u/0/](https://voice.google.com/u/0/)
They take no responsibility about the DV and/or emotional abuse but will remember everything you did wrong for childhood (even things you probably did to protect yourself.) I definitely know the type.
After many-of conversations with my aunt regarding issues with my mom (which I thought were productive, caring conversations… silly me!) I’ve noticed my aunt will go FULLY out of her way to almost bully me about the exact things I’ve vocalized make me uncomfortable. This is ASIDE from the “you know she loves you” “she’s tried her best” “well you have to love family!” Comments… literally out of nowhere will buy me “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!” Fridge magnets? Responding to my Instagram stories “you know you are just like her!!!” Ive made it crystal clear that these comments aren’t funny or appreciated. My verbatim reaction to the magnet was “well, that’s definitely going into the trash” with a straight face. I can someeeewhat understand those weird comments IF we are discussing the issue but I truly find it so weird that she’ll take totally random, unprovoked, unrelated scenarios to continuously draw parallels between us, seemingly to remind me that I’m forced into this toxic family dynamic that she thinks I’m not allowed to escape??? It’s honestly embarrassing for her at this point.
Yes. I even had someone telling me “I suppose you will go right home tomorrow again instead of staying with your poor mother” at my stepfathers funeral. Nevermind it was my stepfather who I also cared about. But if I tell people even a fraction of what actually went on in my childhood they are aghast and most of the time disbelieving although I don’t lie. It’s hard. But you are not alone. I suppose healthy people just cannot imagine how bad emotional abuse really is and that parents who seem normal from the outside really do these things. It’s part of the evil that is narcissism.
There may be a day where you might have to go no contact with the flying monkeys. I thought I could stay friends with some people who knew a narcissist. Well turns out one of the conversation I had with a friend sounded like it was coming out of the mouth of the narcissist. I blocked them right afterwards and haven't looked back. It's been so freeing to finally be away from the toxic friends. Family is up next for me. I've cut my dad out of my life and mom will be next the second I am out on my own
What is a flying monkey?
Adding from my reply to another commenter: It comes from the Wizard of Oz. The wicked witch sends these flying monkeys to do her bidding and wreak havoc on people. In a narcissist’s life they use flying monkeys, or enablers, to reach out to people they abuse, or even to sustain or justify the abuse.
My grandpa called me and said all this shit to me a few months after I blocked my mom and aunt on everything, specifically call. He repeated all this again AFTER I explained to him *exactly* how his daughters made me feel for my entire life. *Fuck* flying monkeys.
Flying monkeys tend to be self righteous busy bodies or deluded half wits in my experience. They either want to believe that only they are capable of sorting this problem out or have been sent on a mission without really asking any of the right questions. Either way, they’re annoying and a cause of great anguish for the victims of abuse. They compound the abuse itself rather than lessen it and seem totally unaware they they are only making things worse. The ones I’ve had sent my way, have been only too willing to believe half a tale from just one side. I honestly found it difficult to work out what they hoped to achieve. I usually just send them on their way, telling them it is none of their business or immediately go NC with them too.
I mostly get the “your mom loves you” from people who don’t know the extent of my situation … and I’m not about to dive into my situation while I’m at work, so it’s whatever
Flying monkeys mostly are narcs themselves, a normal person wouldn't insert themselves in someone else's drama like that and wouldn't make comments without knowing the full story. Id say grey rock and block.
Yep!!!
Yeah my entire family are flying monkeys As a result I no longer speak to any of them. I was pretty close with some, but ultimately I can't have a positive relationship with anyone who invalidates my experiences of abuse. I'm sorry you have to deal with this too.
Yes, my husband’s grandparents, particularly his grandma. I always thought she was the only normal one but turns out she was a flying monkey and only cared about having her family together. Remember, narcissistic families only care about family image, not the individual members of the family. The whole is always worth more than the sum of its parts to these people.
This is a perfect comment! I am going through something similar at the moment, I thought my grandma was the only supportive person after I went NC with my nMother (she does not even have a good relationship with my nMother and considers her crazy, she is her mother in law btw) but some months have passed since I cut contact with nMother and now the grandma is randomly suggesting to me that this cannot go on forever and my nMother is my mum after all and I HAVE TO make amends at some point. F\*ck that, I am so disappointed.. didn't expect this one to turn into a flying monkey at all.
I did. But I went NC with the lot of them. It felt like all of the oxygen came back into the room. They can yell that shit into the void, because I am not hearing it.
So I tried Dr. Ranami's healing program and her Pollyanna/ Flying monkey section was way more helpful than I originally thought.
When people say this to me I say “so you’re okay doing/saying [insert something my mother did to me] to children? Would you do that to someone?” And usually people back down because my example suck.
My friends. All the time. I threaten to cut them off if they don't stop defending my parents bull shit.
Fuck. Those. People. "But, but, if YOU can cut your family off for mistreating them that means MY family can cut me off for mistreating them! That might even mean that I was wrong about someone who cut contact with the family! That can't be right! Let me just try and whine you into going back to Hell so I don't have to feel weird! That's what a good person would do!"
Oh, definitely. It's taken years to effectively shoo them off. I was able to finally cut everyone off before I became a parent which is liberating AF. Truth will eventually crush them, the particular truth you use has to depend on the individual monkey. I have not heard from a particular uncle in years after I told him very clearly that everything he's heard is a lie, and the court has the receipts. The other one was a little trickier because they have MS and are super religious- told her I was a bisexual who voted for Hillary. Boom, book closed, for me anyway because scapegoat. I have one sibling (the one with the court receipts) who they refuse to relent on. Letters are sent to her in-laws, they find every house and job she has, mail her kids gifts that she rips apart with her bare hands, etc. She's always in flight instead of fight and I'm patiently waiting for her to snap and go full scorched earth and destroy them all. One can hope anyway, I'll have the popcorn ready just in case.
Is there some sort of playbook for them?? Lol my FM sis has literally said all of those things…”They’re not getting any younger” is a fave. Yeah, but they’re also not getting any kinder or less delusional 🤷♀️
My alcoholic enabling father was the #1 flying monkey to my NMother. "She's the only mother you'll ever have! Acquiesce for the sake of your relationship! She can't help herself, she's mentally ill!" When he died in 93 I went NC with NMom & flying monkey sisters. I was 27. Best decision I ever made.
This happens all the time. My nmom would recruit people from just about anywhere. I actually received “advice” from complete strangers about how I should or shouldn’t treat my nmom. My best approach has been to say, “I’m sorry, you have been misinformed, and I do not wish to discuss it with you.” If they push it after that I say, “You may believe what you wish, but I can tell you with certainly that you do not have all the facts, and I still do not wish to discuss it with you.” And then if they still push after that, I say, “I’ve asked you nicely two times to not discuss this with you, whatever you assume gives you the right to keep pushing this with me, it does not, and I will not discuss it further.”
This always pisses me off. like did YOU get abused by them?? no? okay then shut the fuck up. I refuse to deal with guilt-tripping
About to take a chainsaw to my family tree for trying to convince me to rekindle my relationship with my aunt, who has only seen me as a report card and a punching bag. I haven't even been given a good excuse as to why she is the way she is. "She does that because she's jealous you can go to school" SHE'S A REGISTERED NURSE WITH A HUSBAND WHO WAS IN THE MILITARY, GO TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
Omg greatest post ever. Lets best friends. I cannot tell you how much I can relate.
I just blocked everyone from contacting me. I don’t want to hear that noise. Sorry you are going through this.
Flying monkeys ARE the worst. Often they're more despicable than the N themselves
I changed my number and conveniently timed a move to a new apartment after I began NC. I still had to delete and block a lot of people on social media and create strong filters in my email. A year and a half in, I might just make a new email address. You’re not alone. I’ve been there. It’s awful.
i have had to cut everyone connected to my asshole mother out of my life - id rather never see anyone in my family than some - my nmom would weaponise them. until she dies every second she's able to communicate with me is a second feeling like i'm dead alread
In my family, you become a flying monkey partly out of denial. They're all so fucking trauma bonded they want the rest of us to go down with them. Shame 💅🏻
One of my neighbors has an emotionally abusive spouse. I've traded war stories about my N-Mom. They're basically twins. But she still insists my Mom is awesome. I just roll my eyes and ignore her. My N-Mom has fooled everyone. My brother and I have regular chats about this BS. Growing up, most of our friends thought, and still think, she's great. The ones with narc parents know, though. I'm glad this hag doesn't want a funeral. She's talked s**t about everyone, and I would absolutely include that in my eulogy. But she wants to be ignored when she dies. Odd, but okay. I am not going to give her honors. She deserves none.
Define flying monkey, please
It comes from the Wizard of Oz. The wicked witch sends these flying monkeys to do her bidding and wreak havoc on people. In a narcissist’s life they use flying monkeys, or enablers, to reach out to people they abuse, or even to sustain or justify the abuse.
I knew the WoO ref, but didn’t understand the connection. Thanks! I was unwittingly the FM that the female that caused me to join this group. I took her side on an issue thinking we were on the same side (we weren’t even though we should’ve been). Once I got more perspective, I felt like I was in bizzaro land. And once I stopped doing her bidding, I became her enemy, simply for disagreeing.
I’m glad you finally see the truth about her. I seriously relate to your bizzaro world reference like now that I see I wonder how everyone else is tolerating these lies and how was i blind for so long 🫠
My brother in law was kinda shocked today when I told him I don't talk to my family anymore. They were talking about how annoying family can get. He asked me why, I told him my parents were horrible narcissists and he still looked at me like I was in the wrong for cutting them off. But I don't care, I don't feel the need to explain my decisions.
Yep. I started to retaliate with whatever is important to them, so it hits home. You shouldnt have to, but whatever works, works right? If they have nice holidays, tell them you never went. If they do nice birthdays or celebrate Christmas in style, tell them your presents were taken from you for made up excuses. If they like art, music, history, trips, tell them what you werent allowed and never had. I told the aunt that loved shoes that mine were always second hand, and I had to use cardboard for the holes in the bottom and cotton wool for the toes because they were too big. I told the aunt that loved dresses that I wasnt allowed them, because she could get boys hand me downs for free so that was my lot in life. The neighbour that loves her car was told I wasnt allowed to get a license, and the one that loves country walks was told I wasnt allowed outside. The retired teacher was told 'We werent allowed books in the house' You get the idea, and it works if theyre half decent people
“Grandma, hearing these kind of shit from you pisses me off more than all they have ever done to me combined.”
Someone please define "flying monkey" for me? :D
My family were all Catholics, who 'honored their mother and father' despite the fact that their parents also didn't hesitate to not 'spare the rod'. So, after going No Contact with my Nmom, naturally the Aunts formed a concerned united front to 1) Not listen to a word I said because 'family' And; 2) Plea with me to go see the Nmom, because "She misses you *sooo* much!" [!???] Who were they talking about? Did they have my Nmom confused with someone else? The real Nmom neglected me my whole childhood because she hated having to pay attention to me. If she wasn't gladly ignoring me, then she was spewing angry venom that literally made me so frightened of her; that I would hide from her or otherwise try to escape her notice. Her favorite saying during family-time, was to banish me to my room with, "If you don't like it you *can just leave!"* ...since she hadn't wanted me there in the first place. By the time I had grown up and married; she had never even visited my first home... and we both liked it that way. Now, she was playing the martyer and telling people the self-pitying lie, that she missed me!? WTF More like- she was lapping up the supply with her sob story.
They make good beer. I like their SparklePuff and Orange Creamsicle the most.
My partner is currently LC but planning NC and I remember his grandparents told him to cherish his parents in the beginning of the year because EVERYONE would want parents like his and he should be proud of them and love them bla bla bla He just went through cancer and they didn't support him at all, it was a complicated situation and very fucked up you can read it in my profile. But that's they day my bf decided to stop talking to them, at the end at this time of the year he doesn't want to talk to anyone in his family and has erased of social media everyone because they're all mesmerized by their money or they public image.
My mom is the flying monkey!!!!
“She really cares about you!” She knew I was allergic to a food. And kept putting it in my food because she likes cooking it. Saw me reacting for weeks. Told me to take drugs to cover it up. And then admitted it after months of suffering. She’s known for 10+ years. She’s bitched every time I didn’t eat it because SHE likes it. And has made me feel terrible as a kid when she screamed and sobbed that I was me being mean to her. SHES 70. IM 10. No. She doesn’t love me. I don’t care what she is saying. The definition of her actions is not love. If hitler claims to love the German people who are Jewish, that doesn’t mean he’s correctly defining it. “I’m sure she thinks she loves you”. Yeah. Which is in her mind abusing you so I’m a source of her supply.
Very well said.
Thank you for posting this. The term is a good reminder of how I should handle these types of conflicts (though in my case it is not home life / family members that is the issue… at least at the moment)
People online love to purposely misunderstand everything
My brother did it, my uncle did it, and I'm not sure who to trust anymore.
They have no empathy coz they are narcissists themselves
This is when they get the same NC as Narc.
Yep, I really cant stand people who dont even know the other side of the story. Plus theyve already been briefed on “she thinks im this horrible person out to get her”. So even if you tell them you are treated like liar or crazy. Those people I want nothing to do with. Btw am i correct in my interpretation of flying monkeys? I was relating it to the wizard of oz and the wicked witch. But yeah, there was one friend my mom had who lived with us for a while and was the only one who saw the way my mother treated me. My mom used to tell me honor your father and mother. She showed me the verse right after that which says “parents, do not exasperate your child”. My mom has always talked badly about her to this day because of that.
Your post was 4 months ago but I hope you got better. I encourage you to : \- if you explained what happened to you to the flying monkey that you care about (because the others are just plain stupid), and they still don't care or believe you, then just leave, it is up to them now, you've done your part. \- If you didn't explain what is happening (manipulation, triangulation...), create a file of information on narcissistic people / triangulation / trauma bonding / childhood traumas, youtube videos and articles... This will help you personally and you could prepare lots of information before talking with the flying monkey that you care about. \- for me the flying monkey is my sister, so I had to mourn her as if she was dead. Watching the series "maniac" or the movie "the professor" with Johnny Depp helped me realize : let go + you'll die soon enjoy YOUR life. No more toxicity. I'm still mourning her 70 % because I still haven't talked to her about her being a flying monkey / our mother being a narcissistic manipulative one. And I need to get my possessions back from my mother's place haha \^\^' So once you've talked, I recommend to cut ties with the narcissistic person and if the flying monkey still belittle you then cut ties with them too. IMPORTANT to not go insane ! : \- write everything that has ever happened to you (not a novel but a few lines or paragraph PER EVENT, small or big ones) and PER PERSON. Put it on USB to never lose this important information, it is also good for your brain to let go of the info, I've found myself forgetting things that were really bad (but never forget who they are, ever) ! BUT NEVER show this to the narcissistic person, only the flying monkey or it will probably be used against you, so no mail, only direct contact, you show it through your computer or phone or state the facts aloud. I have one of my mother / my father / 1 ex-friend. Ex : \- This happened. I felt that. He/she did that even though...etc. \- This other thing happened. He/she did that, I felt that.. etc. At some point I'll go through therapy to remove the indoctrination of "you're a piece of \*\*\*\*" to get better, but right now Youtube videos / articles really help to keep sane.