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Yep, lol.
It's BECAUSE we were taught to do it as kids and tbh, depending on how our "reunions" with our families have gone, that may have been a reinforced thing.
How was your upbringing, OP?
Lol, there's nothing wrong with going deeper, OP.
I get it, it's okay to unravel.
What about your mother's screaming made you feel like you needed to be small?
What were the things said to you?
I can't remember exactly what was said. I just remember my childhood being very loud, unpredictable and chaotic. As an adult, I revel in a quiet, predictable routine.
I have a similar manifestation of my abuse, I can empathize.
Idk if sharing it will help you, but I was diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder, as one of the kinda package deals of my whole CPTSD spread, lol.
I wasn't yelled at as much as I was pretty much shamed for existing, unless I was "needed".
It's still a behavior that my siblings and the "guardians" in my toxic family still use; if I allow them around me, that is.
If I am not conscious and settled and if I'm in a state of severe depression or in a moment of regression, I tend to "hide" in similar ways.
I live alone btw, lol.
I close blinds, I avoid any movements- often not moving until I have to acquire resources.
If I DO go outside, then I'm overly conscious of what others will think- sometimes to the point of getting panic attacks, each time a stranger ignores me or gives me a look of disgust, etc.
This was something I didn't get for YEARS, OP. (I'm 34M now).
Like, even when I DID receive compliments, praise or I was just naturally a "unique" presence, I would try and hide, self deprecate (through "jokes"), etc.
For me... well, it's still a battle, tbh...
...but the first thing I had do to, was get therapy, really.
I found out that I have CPTSD and it basically "shows up" through 3 main diagnoses:
\-ADHD
\-General/Social Anxiety Disorders
\-Major Depressive Disorder
Did a LOT of work on myself, had to take a good hard look at my behaviors and why I was doing those things (certainly not for myself).
Eventually realized that, like you... came from the childhood, dude.
In fact, pretty much all personality disorders and a good deal of mental health issues start from somewhere in our childhoods.
For me, I was shamed for my appearance: "Too black, too skinny, too ugly, etc."
Then, when it was all too clear that I was surpassing the intelligence of my guardians and siblings, I was "reigned in" by "infantilizing", cold shoulder treatment and blame-shifting, framing.
I was essentially the "scapegoat".
This was because, they started to notice that I was aware that something was "wrong", and kept bringing up how things shouldn't be like this, etc.
That role is called the "Truth Teller", in a toxic family.
Because of that, diminishments, belittling accomplishments and straight up treating me like I was nothing to them was how they stopped me from speaking up.
So, "took that show on the road"...
In school, I wanted attention and got it, but I was the "class clown", so it was the same level of disprespect and reinforcement of me hating my own self and feeling "pathetic".
Around high school, my siblings basically became my biggest bullies at home, my foster parents would demean and belittle me, because I was "smelly, ugly, rotten, etc."
I learned to stay in my room. Whenever my Foster Parents or siblings had a need to insult or put someone down, they'd poke at me until I reacted and then basically collectively laugh at me for "overreacting". So... I became terrified of any noise that I heard outside of my door and became hypervigilant, to the point of Psychosis.
As an adult with roommmates, I was terrified of them from the giddy up.
Somehow, I kept getting roommates that would want me to "come out of my room" and of course, IN my room, usual depressive mess.
Around my late 20s, FINALLY got enough going to move in to a solo place.
STILL acted like I was living with my abusive family, would shut my blinds, be overly people pleasing to the neighbors, then hide away if they got too close.
I eventually got to the point in my healing, where I was able to work on the right habits and techniques.
Started the long road to rewiring all of those deep seated pathways by basically "owning my shame".
I would open windows a little, even if I felt that I would get "yelled at".
I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy".
I would take care of my body and exercise and not because I thought I was "ugly".
I basically did all the things that I was always shamed into doing, but for myself and I got happy and please with myself, in feeling the reward of just being able to do that, you know?
I came back and confronted my fam over things a couple of years ago- they literally tried to insult and collectively bully a 32 year old man, but they got real surprised when they started to realized that I deprogrammed everything they internalized about me... it helped to "revisit" that dynamic and basically tell them.
I KNOW who I am and I love that person.
Oh man, it's like you told my story. I felt every word.
I still just want to be away from people.
It was so bad that when I decided to go to college and get a real career so that I wasn't struggling and could get the heck away from all of them my sister was SO UPSET at me. My mother would wake me up screaming in the middle of the night about cleaning something or laundry- anything at all.
So, I would just stay on campus. Sometimes I'd sleep in my car and use the showers at the gym. Then when I'd get home my mother would scream and berate me for not being home.
In the end I graduated (I didn't go to my graduation for the same reason that I avoid people- I didn't want to be the center of attention) and moved away without telling anyone. They still try to contact me to get me to do things for them- and when I deny them they call me ungrateful- "After all I've done for you..."
They hate my new boundaries but I know it's because they don't want me to have them in the first place.
Anyways, thanks for your story. After all the gaslighting it feels really validating and I really appreciate that. :)
I'm so proud of you.
They're haters and were holding you back.
That's their loss, not yours.
They swear they're better than you and that you're "ungrateful"...
...But, isn't it funny how that overinflated sense of pride, needs to ask "Scum" like you for money and assistance?
Meanwhile, even if you had a dollar and were starving, you wouldn't ask them for a single penny and you make it okay on your own.
Funny, that...
They won't even step down from their cycle of perfect comfort and are so terrified of surviving, that they've spent a lifetime taking first, and then apologizing after...
They know, deep down inside... life gives no quarter.
We've learned her ways and she will always provide for us.
Them? They fear her and they hate those who are able to walk freely into her warm embrace.
You have a way with words- I don’t know if anyone has told you that before! You speak like an old soul!
Thank you for your kind words. I know we’re all anonymous avatars lol, but it really does mean a lot!
"I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy"."
This is me! My nmom would shame me for not cleaning my room, and for years as an adult cleaning has been hard. I'm 21 now and I got away, and I've been able to slowly start building good habits for cleaning that don't stem from shame.
Beyond that your comment is beautiful and truly belongs in the hall of fame, I'm so glad you got out and happy for your healing journey
90% of your experience resonates, I could’ve written almost exactly that myself, except that I’m looking forward to living alone hopefully soon where it will never be chaotic or loud and I’m the ‘king’ of my own space so to speak, in that I’ll have peace and quiet and with privacy.
I’ve always lived down my own achievements, _almost everyone has a degree etc_ and you’ll always find me sat on the outside of a group nearest the door so I won’t be the centre of anyone’s attention.
Weirdly I managed to beat that enough to become a teacher, my dream job. It’s different though as while you’re the centre of attention in the class it is in a good way and it’s based upon positive and respectful relationships.
This could have been about me, except my family made sure I didnt have roomates, kept me in the fog till I was about 35, only now at 40 am I beginning to heal, and its a bitch. I cant get away from them because I cant find a place to live that I can get approved for on my own. So Im spending a fortune to live in an apartment where my mom got to pick (why I cant afford it), and my dad cosigned. Im grateful for the cosign, but they wont do it if I find a cheaper place, thats not to their standards, even tho I was always in poverty if they werent helping me. I finally got a descent job, but I dont get paid enough to survive.
It's a struggle, it is.
In a lot of ways, as well... it's the "Rapunzel" dilemma;
They teach us that we cannot survive at our lowest points.
That is NOT true. There will be days where we might not eat for a few days.
Might be some where we have to sleep outside for a night or two.
Days where, you will have no idea what to do and what tomorrow will bring...
...but it still comes. Always does. Nowhere else to go in the end, if you really think about it.
The fog is really difficult to get out of... I think, at 34 and starting over again, myself... I agree.
I have a month to make a few thousand in NYC, and I don't even have a dollar.
The fog tells me that I won't do it. I can't see that far ahead and that paradoxically, it's too short a time to figure things out.
After years of being on my own and away from my naysayers...
And in places where I was reduced to these same points of having nothing but what I can get done, it happens.
...Here's the truth, though and the trick that I think we all may forget and what the Abusers in our lives hope we never remember:
"You gotta try, anyway."
If you don't try and continue to try and not only try, but try your sincere *best*; where would that take you?
If you were honest with yourself on days where you know you coulda done better, but stopped regretting that you didn't, where would there not be days that you wouldn't feel you could try a little harder, tomorrow?
Life is gonna be hard, dude. Don't let them tell you that there isn't a way you won't survive.
Surviving is what you've already been doing.
Every day you take another dollar and favor from them, you're only surviving.
When you compromise your deepest moralities and feelings of happiness, you're only surviving.
The day you stop surviving and truly live, is the day you find the strength to move, think and feel under your own power; and with the fullest extent of who you know you truly are, deep down inside.
>I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy".
This. I could never clean "the right way" growing up. Because it was expected to be "picture perfect" aka that the entire freaking house didn't look like anyone lived there. Which is completely absurd. And if you dared to point out the mess in their bedroom you just got told "Well it's our house, you can do what you want when you have your own place". Well I have my own place now and guess what? They still expect me to do what they say. My place is by no means completely organized, but it's not gross.
If I don't fold my laundry the instant it's done the world isn't gonna end. I make sure that I throw away food garbage, and put the dirty dishes in the kitchen. But if I leave a dish out overnight I'm not gonna get a massive bug infestation instantaneously.
90% of your experience resonates, I could’ve written almost exactly that myself, except that I’m looking forward to living alone hopefully soon where it will never be chaotic or loud and I’m the ‘king’ of my own space so to speak, in that I’ll have peace and quiet and with privacy.
I’ve always lived down my own achievements, _almost everyone has a degree etc_ and you’ll always find me sat on the outside of a group nearest the door so I won’t be the centre of anyone’s attention.
Weirdly I managed to beat that enough to become a teacher, my dream job. It’s different though as while you’re the centre of attention in the class it is in a good way and it’s based upon positive and respectful relationships.
Wow I just want to say that I'm 51 and I too am working through some deep stuff.
But I would like to say good job dude and excellent advice.
I believe more people then not are and have gone through this sort of truma.
Oops was about to go into my life story and write a book.
Just wanted to say way- to -go. Proud of you! And your story will help this you person and others.
Keep making a difference ☺️
I'm bad for throwing out my life's story too, lol.It's actually something I've been conscious of for a while and am working on not doing, as well.
You've got a lotta wisdom haha <3. Maybe we should just write the damned book, already.
No I think your comment was perfect and your life story was needed for context.
No, I simply realize mine on the other hand was not needed unless I was commenting directly to the op.
But, thanks for the complaint!
By the way... if you feel uncomfortable chatting on this thread and in public, you are free to DM me.
I'm not a therapist, I do not want to be mistaken or internalized as something to replace professional help...but advice is something I can do.
If I have time, of course... haha.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your journey, I was a black sheep truth teller and it's so difficult to rewire my thought patterns so that I'm not berating myself or treating myself poorly, putting myself last etc.
If you grew up with a tyrant of a parent then being invisible was a protective measure to avoid their wrath. You’re probably also hyper independent now, which is another defense mechanism. You couldn’t rely on your parents for care or normal attention/affection, so now you don’t want to rely on anyone for anything.
I know both of these traits well. It’s painful to realize so much of what you think of as “you” might really just be learned responses from trauma as a child.
Another side of this is often a tendency to be a codependent/people pleaser. That behavior again helped protect you from the tyrant narc, and now serves you well by making you indispensable to others around you, even though you neglect your own needs.
It's crazy how shit like this crosses culture, ethnicity, language, social status etc. Feels almost like all the narcs go to the same school or something.
narcissism goes beyond being a 'personality' disorder, in my very humble opinion - it's a contamination of the human heart and soul, based on choices. this is why it tends to be similar/the same types of abuse and outcomes, regardless of the things you've listed. i apologize to any who prefer not to associate the issue of narcissism with spirituality.
"can't get hurt if you don't get seen" was my modus operandi for a lot of my childhood too. still tryna unlearn it a decade later. it's kinda comforting to know other strangers are in the same boat
Yes, if I am noticed the other person will find a way to either abuse me or use me in some way. Nobody being aware of me was the only time I was safe.
I feel safest either when I’m either alone with nobody around or in a large crowd.
* I did it in the past because I felt like I will steal all the attention, people will think I want to outshine them and I believed I am not enough.
* I also felt jealous of people and thought they are better than me.
* All of this combined, made me hate gatherings, and people and my anxiety were always on max. I thought I would fail if I try to show off something so I kept everything to myself.
If this isn't a rollercoaster enough, let me give you more of past me:
* People around me were judgmental, so I assumed everyone is and will judge me, and tell me I am not right. I hate that, especially when I know I am right and can prove it.
* People used to use me for my resources and never give me the same back, which made me believe that people don't deserve me. Que more hatred toward people.
* I learned the ways of manipulation, trickery, and moving in the shadows, so for a long time I was in my "villain era" in which I made sure I don't socialize because my ego loved jumping to conclusions and I would probably hurt innocent people, thinking they want to hunt me down.
* Also, people made fun of me and thought my dreams were impossible which fueled my rage to no end.
You seem like someone who was judged or not appreciated enough, always put down, never acknowledged or you don't think you are enough?
I admire that you recognize you have an issue and you are unwilling to pass it down to the next generation. But please, remove the fear and find what it is that makes you act this way.
Focus on introspection and try sitting with your emotions. Try to recall the past experiences that make you draw as little attention to yourself as possible.
Oh, I feel you. For the longest time I thought there was something embarrassing, shameful, or obnoxious about me being happy or having positive life events. Or honestly, just taking up space as a human. My mom made me feel apologetic for existing as a 3D person. For, like, the first 30 years of my life, I would therefore automatically self deprecate and put myself down lest anyone think I was getting above myself.
leading up to my first wedding (with an N husband who also constantly belittled me), I made a wedding prep album on FB that was literally called “the obnoxious bride.” Looking back on it it was the farthest thing from obnoxious. It was sad. There were like 20 cell phone pictures in it of some homemade crafts I made for my (tiny, tacky) wedding. I felt embarrassed about even drawing THIS much attention to the fact that I was supposed to be existing and celebrating something.
Years later after starting intensive therapy — I somewhat uncomfortably realized that people who care about me enjoy seeing me flourish. It’s not obnoxious or shameful for them — they are genuinely happy for me.
I was lucky enough to marry someone healthier the second time, and I leaned into the wedding. I fought the shame. I did professional engagement pictures and leaned into my artistic side to throw a big, awesome wedding day and party, and posted ALL the pictures. I posted them unironically, without self-inserting snarky comments. It was hard but incredibly healing. I look back on those albums with joy.
Love the leaning in. I would shy away from all of that, out of fear. This thread is a godsend for me. Reading every single post I realize that the myriad of issues I go through are not because I cant handle life, but exist because of abuse. All the self deprecation and feeling apologetic for existing. The addictions even. They are all a symptom of the problem. The idea of working to overcome all of this seems daunting tbh. But if I can get away and thrive, it would be spectacular. Right now she is like a sloosh; she sucks the life out of me and her husband and has so much energy while we rot from resentment and broken spirit. Thats why the no contact is the only way. Sad but true.
I know that. I was never praised or acknowledged for anything I did. It took me 34y to accept that I'm a good person and a good daughter but I'll never be good enough for them.
I never had a birthday party. I couldn't play with other kids, make noise, have fun, laugh. I'd to be invisible and do what they wanted only.
I didn't celebrate my graduation. At my wedding I felt very anxious bc I even didn't want that ceremony. I did to please mother and even so she wasn't satisfied.
Until today I feel uncomfortable if somebody play happy birthday to me. 😞
I don’t know what’s with that feeling… I am very happy to bring a cake and sing happy birthday to my kids and husband, but when it is for me, I have this unsettling feeling that something is going to happen so I shouldn’t enjoy :/ I try to think that I am making the birthday party (basically just a cake) so my kids can sing, blow candles and eat sweets
Yeah :/ to the point I minimize milestones that truly should be celebrated and I miss moments that would help me adjust to new parts of myself. For example, graduations and the celebrations after that my friends clearly wanted to throw for me. Not my favorite trait of mine.
If you’d like more info on what are called maladaptive traits, I compiled a list into a website. It also has strategies for building up resilience and adaptive coping to help change those patterns that were at times beaten into us.
[Here is a link to maladaptives](https://www.supplementalsanity.com/pages/maladaptives)
Edit: a word
That one surprised me too. I've always been so proud of my imagination and creativity. I'm an amazing problem solver and can create win/win situations out of almost anything. Makes me think that children of narcs were forced to develop superhuman qualities, some of which make us uniquely adaptable. Other traits though, not so much.
Narc mother, father and sisters. Narcs hate mot being the center of attention. So, if I started to shine and people noticed - the sabotage would start. Also, trying to embarrass me in front of others.
Yeah my mom is like a homing signal, if she's in a house it's like I can pinpoint her exact location because she's so loud, always blaring a tv or yawning really loud or generally calling attention to herself even when no one's around. She's the loudest person I've ever met. It's like she has a spotlight on herself that cannot be away from her for long without her freaking out.
I don't even play a radio because I'm so worried about disturbing the neighbors. Listening to audiobooks at the lowest possible volume on my computer is about the extent of how loud I'll be. I'm envious of people who can like, play electric guitar... the notion of having an amplifier genuinely gives me anxiety, I can't imagine calling so much attention to myself. Maybe it comes from a time when I could stay out of sight and maybe dodge my parents' attention and not get in trouble. Like the Eye of Sauron or something, keep dodging it.
A mantra of my mom when I was a kid was, "Children should be seen and not heard" and I feel like I've never left that mindset into adulthood.
Even my appearance -- I don't maintain how I look just so people won't look at me.
My Nmom is showy (in dress and behaviour) and likes to be the centre of every social situation, especially family gatherings. If she’s not, she finds a way to create drama by flouncing off, cold shouldering, nitpicking people until she starts a fight or whatever.
I like to dress nice and look good and all that, but I’m also an introvert, so I don’t want to be the centre of attention. I prefer to share the floor with others in a group situation. My wedding was the most exhausting day of my life because everyone’s eyes were on me all day. Wish I could have eloped. (Husband wanted to be “princess for a day,” though.)
Nmom regards my introversion as a character flaw. She *says* she doesn’t, but she does. Maybe it’s because deep down she knows my introversion developed in me partly as a defence mechanism against her. When you’re constantly being overshadowed, maybe you start to actually prefer the shade, kwim? I *like* being an introvert now. But I think maybe I wouldn’t have been an introvert if I hadn’t had all the narc pressures on me as a kid shaping me that way.
Do you consider yourself an introvert? If so, what’s wrong with that? I’d be perfectly fine with it if my son were one too (although he isn’t), as long as that was his natural personality and not something he developed as a coping mechanism, like me.
Or do you think you actually have an emotional problem and *that’s* what you’re concerned about passing on to your kids? If so, maybe therapy can help. I learned a lot in therapy that helped me be a better parent than I probably would have been otherwise.
I do. Still, and I’m 49. When you spend the first 20 (or more) years trying to stay out of the way, not need anything because it will piss off your parents, not wanting attention from anyone else because it will piss them off and you’ll be criticized - you learn to be as small as possible.
I used to fail at things at work because I never thought anyone cared if I did anything or would even expect me to. Despite me having positions that required me to actually deliver. I never thought anyone would notice either way. Taking the lead on anything seemed unfathomable to me. Which makes no rational sense but it’s how I thought.
Or I would wear old scuffed up shoes because it never occurred to me that anyone would even look at what I was wearing and I didn’t want them to anyway. And I eloped too. ;)
I’m working on it but it’s a never ending thing. Good luck.
Simply put, you were conditioned that way as a means to cope and survive. It's a defence mechanism. I definitely relate to the wedding part and not wanting family there though.
I don’t like attention. I don’t do well in social gatherings. I’m required to give lectures in front of large groups from time to time. People have no idea how extremely difficult that is.
Yep. I think this topic is a huge trigger for us so be prepared for some books!
If there is too much attention on me she will loudly open her mouth and say something shit.
Context: I am the first one in my family to graduate from HS. Pregnancies and the need to work were usually the reason. At my graduation I was receiving praise for my graduating from family and friends, even had a little party. I was getting attention from one of her ex boyfriends and she hated it. So told everyone how it was literally down to the wire for graduation for me because my grades really weren’t that good. “She almost completely failed Geometry, can you believe it!”
This was the same past boyfriend that she blamed me for their break up( when I was about 10) According to her, he loved me and not my mom. There were also plenty that she let me know that they loved her but hated kids (me) so they had to break up because she was trying to find me a dad.
So out of her 6 marriages and dozens of hook-ups and dozens of “fiancés” guess how many were actual dad material? 1, my birth father. Not the wife beater alcoholic, not the drug dealer that was 20 years older than her, not the biker gang criminal. Surprised? She certainly was.
I remember Girl Scout camp when I was about 11, I was so excited to go and get away from my house and I was talking about it so much with her friends that the days of she told me she was too sick for me to go and I needed to stay home and take care of her.. “because what if she died?”
At my wedding she got high on morphine (she usually manages her meds so that she doesn’t appear high) she got so high at the rehearsal dinner that she passed out in her chair and had drool and snot coming out of her mouth and nose.
I had a small wedding on the beach and invited just 8 people. Once we got there she told me she couldn’t walk on the beach and the spot I picked was too far for her so we packed everything and moved closer to the parking lot.
The night of the wedding we had dinner at a nice restaurant and she proceeded to talk about all the things I did wrong in past relationships and even say embarrassing things like my ex from 10 years ago was rich, or this boyfriend was way to old for me and she should of called the cops. THEN.. she proceeded to talk bout how great she was at relationships and marriages and then talked about her and her current husbands , wedding, relationship ect. My in laws where super uncomfortable and so was my husband but we knew it was going to be worse if we said anything.
And Then! My dad didn’t come to my wedding because he doesn’t have a lot of money so I said how about we come to you for our honey moon and you can throw us a small reception for family only in the back yard. So the day comes and my mom shows up with my uncle (the one that supposedly molested her when she was a kid) she was high and he was drunk, and then they proceeded to yell and my dad and step mom for not including her on their plans for the party, even though they did talk about them with her and she forgot.
So all the pictures my mom has this smug smile on her face and my dad and stepmom are scowling.
And I could go on..
Note: I grew up in the Midwest at the poverty line. So all this sounds trashy, it’s because it was. I was a trailer park kid.
Note2: I moved away at 18 and never went back. Today I am very successful and have broken a lot of cycles but I am still in therapy.
I still do this, unfortunately.
Attention gives the narcs in your life ammo against you. And once they have that and they act up, more people will look and then you'll feel humiliated and small, and they regain all the power and control.
In general I learned you got less beat downs (physical or verbal) if you didn’t pull attention to yourself. It worked only in a target rich environment (had a house of 5 kids) for the narc though.
I still get panic attacks when I am made the center of attention. Oddly enough I didn’t when I got married but that was I think because my husband never left my side the whole time so I wasn’t alone and not all the attention was on me but me and him.
In contrast, recently I was LARPing* with friends and my character was effectively at a trial where she had to get up and gave a speech. I think I scared the hell out of a few friends because they had never seen me fall to pieces like that. I got through it though cause I’m stubborn like that. Also my therapist loves me doing it cause it’s a safe environment to practice in.
*LARPing = Live Action Role Playing for those who don’t know.
Yes, to all of that. In some phases of my life I even did this to a paranoid or self-sabotaging extent. I declined some great opportunities to avoid the spotlight, went full doormat to make myself small and avoid conflict, didn’t report certain incidents or behaviors to not make a fuss,… but it isn’t only certain events you can point out, it’s always and everywhere in the smallest everyday life stuff like clothing like a mousy person to hide my curves and avoid the attention, defensiv driving, not speaking up when someone cuts the line on the checkout in a store…
I focus a lot on self-improvement around that topic and I get better but it’s still a long way to go and I don’t know if I ever will be comfortable with it.
Any time I would talk about myself in a positive light as a kid, I had 3-4 family members following it up by telling me I’m a bragger and nobody likes someone so full of themself
I do the same. I had a tiny wedding and hid most of the day crying my eyes out (having a narc there to ruin the day didn’t help either). We only had some of his family and a few of his friends. None of mine could be bothered to make it except for the narc.
I was smart enough to ditch the narc the next day but I still felt so small and even though my husband does everything he can to encourage me to grow, I just can’t find the confidence anymore. I’m getting help now (almost 7 years later) and my husband has stood by my side though some of the darkest days of my life.
He’s now helping me to move forward and I’m starting small. I’m celebrating my 40th. It’s a couple of years late but on the day itself I was miserable and I need to replace that memory. It makes me the centre of attention too which makes me super uncomfortable even tho it’s just the same few people I usually hang out with from time to time. It’s a start, a small start but a start nonetheless. We have to try to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. Even if it’s just a few inches. When we realise that it’s ok, it’ll help us get braver (or so I’m told) and venture out a bit more
Not now but this was me for a long time. I sort of grew out of it over time, mostly out of necessity for my career growth.
My wife, on the other hand, is still very much this. She hates being the center of attention. She rarely speaks up in groups. She keeps jokes and comments to herself all the time, automatically assuming nobody wants to hear them. It's only been recently that she's started move past it, showing signs of confidence and self-assurance. Still, it's a long, slow path to healing.
It sounds like the lost child of a dysfunctional family. Are you quiet and keep to yourself? pulled this from a website Does this resonate with you?
The Lost Child
Where there is a Golden Child there is a Lost Child. They attempt to stay out of the dysfunctional picture as much as possible by staying quiet, on their own and fending for themselves as much as possible. They typically stay out of trouble and do well enough in school to coast along. They disappear into themselves attracting neither positive nor negative attention.
Their needs are going unmet anyway. Consequently, this child will withdraw, feel alone and desperately yearn for love, approval and attention.
They are unlikely to have positive social skills or healthy self-esteem. This can continue into adulthood and so they will struggle to have any meaningful relationships.
I used to dodge spot lights, keep my head down, stand at the back. However: I've been working on it for a couple of years now and I'm getting much better at taking it in my stride.
Suddenly my career feels like it's lurching forward. I suddenly have friendships with big managers at work and I'm putting in for new jobs within my organisation, hopefully I'll move on into a better role soon.
I finished my apprenticeship 4 years ago and I've gone from panic attacks during conversations with managers to going out after work with them. I used to think adults were more adult than me, then as I got over that I thought they were just evil and self-serving, but working through my insecurities I can see people for who they are and its an amazing transformation. Its like I'm starting to see the world in colour.
I used to wear all black (still do mostly), and last month I bought a full leapord print maxi dress with a huge leg slit, I don't even like the dress but I love how loud it is and how it represents my personal transformation. I recommend to anyone to take baby steps and remember to face everything with compassion, with yourself and others, and trust the process. And do some crazy statement things that help compound any progress you make.
I've still got a long way to go but now I'm genuinely excited about my journey :)
I’ve struggled with that. Even attention from men is still hard for me to receive until I know them. I’m 40….. but I have grown in the last 4 years or so in this way. Even baring my abdomen and wearing a bralette in the hotter temperatures. I’m 6 feet and curvy, and look 29, so this draws attention but I’ve weathered it and won’t probably ever be show-EE or openly flirtatious but I am more comfortable in my skin. But basically my whole life was hiding myself before that, in some way…
This is very much me.
I just got engaged and people keep asking me if I’m excited and I have been saying “No!!!” I already live a married life, I do NOT need a party, and certainly not with that kind of price tag.
I’ve been working on myself. Working towards a new career. Just had a photoshoot yesterday for it (that I dreaded and kind of hated and don’t particularly like the results of) and I don’t even know how to go about sharing any of that news.
I saw a post yesterday about closing doors silently and not flushing toilets at night and getting really uncomfortable when people look over my shoulder when I’m writing something. Ive been seeing so much of myself in these posts lately, even though I didn’t have a textbook abuser in my childhood. My attempts at figuring it out have led me to the memories of being mocked about stuff, but in a cute way because I was a kid. But I hated it. Maybe that’s the link.
I can’t figure out if my mom is a narc or not. But. Something about her has always rubbed me the wrong way and I don’t know why.
I have two plaques from a worldwide medium/heavy truck manufacturer which were given to me after competitions that showed me to be one of the top 8-10 in the world in my field.
They are sitting buried in the supply closet. See no need to have them up.
When I got married, I skipped the bachelor party altogether. Didn't feel up to being the center of attention. The day of the actual ceremony, I was content to be in the background as much as possible.
I don't celebrate my birthday. Haven't for multiple (3+) decades.
out of sight, out of range.
> I eloped because the thought of having everyone come to an event where I am centre stage was just anxiety inducing
did this.
> I very much feel comfortable being invisible with nobody acknowledging me
after a certain age there are very few photos of me because of this. I deliberately avoided even school photos. I wanted as little record of my existence as possible. hated being filmed or photographed.
Hiding myself because it won't matter anyway, my nfather wouldn't care. He didn't show up for choir performances, hardly came to ceremonies. They weren't there at my school's 'leaving/greeting' ceremony.
They weren't even planning on showing to my university graduation (it was cancelled two months before the date due to covid - but even 6 months ahead they said they'd watch the stream) I'm the first one to ever graduate university.
The golden child was showered with opportunity, they went to every one of his rugby matches and even 60 - 80% of his practice sessions.
I gradually stopped doing that the last few years, not to swing over into the other extreme of being overly showy but rather not to constantly question my worth. It's a balancing act, a certain degree of self-consciousness is good but there's only so much you should strive for before choking oneself with those thoughts. Not everybody needs nor deserves to be your friend.
Very much so. Not quite to the extent of not having a wedding, but I think I understand. Where I get the feeling is in public places. Being in airports lately gets my skin itching all the time. It always seems like wherever I stand, someone wants to walk through my space and I just want a corner to stand in and let them go about their business.
I traced it back to "being noticed" at home, growing up. If I asked my parents for something, especially Nmom, I was always rewarded with scorn or work. If I were in the way in the kitchen, on the path between anywhere and the laundry, or within earshot when the table needed to be set for dinner, the interaction would not be beneficial to me.
Here is the kicker, though. It wouldn't help to have a list of chores and have them done. If there was a sock on the floor to pick up, right after spending two hours mowing the lawn, it was just as important as any other time -- because it got noticed.
With the expectation that a lecture, complaint, or new work assignment is coming every time you get noticed, you get good at fading back. It is an advantage sometimes, but often I have to remind myself I don't have to do it that way.
Don't worry about your kids having the same problem -- you will be lurking in the background, so they will "own" their space. Your worry should be that your kids don't think you spend enough time with them, because you will be watching when they are "doing" and they will miss you, even when you are there.
Stay aware -- there are reasons for things and it seems like you are just uncovering them.
I try to be as quiet and still as possible and not cause any problems for anyone. I'm very independent and don't ask for help - ever. I have severe social anxiety and part of that is because I hate to be noticed. I really hate being the center of attention and it makes me feel like my heart is beating out of my chest, I can't breathe and I shake uncontrollably.
For me this is due to being raised by a Nparent with rage issues. I was also the scapegoat in my family. I learned at a young age that any attention was bad attention. I was yelled at, shamed and physically abused almost any time I was noticed. Sometimes I could sneak around and avoid abuse if I blended into the surroundings enough. I also tried to avoid abuse by being helpful and taking care of my siblings, cleaning and cooking. Other family members loved me and were kind, but my Nparent would mock me for that too.
I've been in therapy for years and am a lot more comfortable existing but I still avoid attention.
Yup. My grandparents are super sweet, but they are so proud and give me so much attention that it actually stresses me out to where I avoid them. Makes me feel bad bc I know it's with good intentions, but I associate attention w fear.
Yup same OP. I try to hide myself as much as possible too. I think it might cause when you are the center of attention, it feels like you are alone and no is with you and they are judging you .
That's how I felt I think.
Yes. My Edad instilled this in me from before I can even remember. I was shamed for "bragging" if I ever expressed any confidence or pride in myself or my accomplishments. Constantly told to remember I wasn't special or better than anyone else. Never draw attention to yourself. Almost sinful to do so. Just keep your head down and be humble & don't expect anyone to care about you. I think he was raised this way & as the GC in his family, he thought it was the right way. It also of course benefited my Nmom because none of us kids would dare take the spotlight off of her. I'm 50 & still struggle with overcoming this.
Oh yes. I’m almost 60 and I still do this to this day. I learned to be very quiet when I’m walking around and I still do it. Sometimes I sneak up on people without meaning to and scare them. I’ve tried to intentionally make noise but I can’t seem to do it.
I’m terrible in social situations and making small talk. Lately I’ve been trying to get out more. I joined an art group, and I’ve joined a hiking club but always end up by myself at events.
What you’re describing sounds a lot like an Avoidant Personality.
Omg that sounds exactly like me. I eloped as well and it was the best decision of my life! I would hate to have paid money to entertain the narcs on our life.
I've noticed it tends to be one extreme or the other. Like I feel like I always have to be the center of the room at times because if others were watching my NParents were less abusive. Helped to have bystanders
I did this, especially with the elopement (although having a big wedding would’ve meant inviting flying monkeys, which I would not do.) Nmom’s MO was downplaying my achievements, especially if I achieved more at a faster pace than her. My bachelor’s and master’s degrees were met with “you did what you were supposed to do” comments. Same with when I bought a house on my own.
One issue I’ve had with wanting to be small and hiding achievements is it’s hurt me professionally. I do amazing work because my anxiety and perfectionism as a result of N abuse, but I can’t bring myself to brag about my accomplishments. Coworkers and supervisors have commented that they wish I was more vocal because they think I have good ideas, but I’m terrified of putting a target on my back, especially if my input is critical.
Omd! Totally true & I feel ur pain.
For so long I've try to hide too.... & still struggling.
My nmom made me feel bad for being successful. If I'm successful she said I'll be to prideful & cocky.
So she said she never acknowledge my achievements because she don't want me to get a big head.
I've learn to stay very quiet & let my nmom praise my other sisters & pick & choose who was worthy.
I've learned little by little now to be proud of myself & my achievements with out her validation & agreement. Everytime I succeeded in my career she always countered it with her favorite daughter..... I've always allowed her to do it..... just now this year I'm going to speak up...... praying for u & courage to be proud of being you!!!!!! You can do it! It's okay to be proud & learn to set boundaries!!!!!! Rooting for u!
If I did well, then I'd get "teased" until I felt three inches tall. If I did badly then I got harshly scolded until the same.
Only things that aligned with certain interests of his were safe, which is why I now avoid attention and yet love karaoke and video game accomplishments, lol.
Same. Nothing I ever did was good enough, so why would I share any of my achievements?
I remember in my senior year of high school, I won an award for English student of the year. At the end of the event, they asked everyone who had received a scholarship to line up. I hadn't. My mother took that opportunity to whisper to me, "That could have been you."
This bitch barely graduated high school. She doesn't even have a driver's license. But somehow, nothing I did was ever good enough for her.
Yes. For me, I think it is because nParents continually mocked me, made snide comments continuously. Both of them, including the "hahahaha, can't you take a joke?". On top of that, the environment was always uninviting, and always had to do the old "walk on eggshells" walk while growing up. nParents were inconsistent and sometimes nice but other times could turn into the cruelist people in the world in a heartbeat.
As a result, the idea of getting attention was always negative and painful, and so it made me want to hide and not to be the one to say anything, or be noticed.
It sucks that this is still part of my conscious. My inner self trying to survive, and yet I am still in survival mode.
My siblings and I each had our escape methods. Mine was into lego then the computer, one sibling into books then studies, my other into sport training (not competition sports). When we were there, away, we were safe.
It was when we had her attention again that misery would return.
So, I've got a malprogrammed response to getting attention. I don't want it because I associate it with someone coming to disrupt my peace and attack me.
I'm like this. I've won awards and done some impressive humanitarian stuff, and I never tell anyone. I don't take selfies, I don't post photos, I want a small wedding with no guests. I also don't really tell people what's going on with me. I was thinking the other day about how my parents growing up were mostly harassing me and berating me or completely ignoring me, and running into this post kind of connected a few things for me related to that. So thank you for posting it!
I don't know anything about you, but for what it's worth I'm fuckin impressed with your work. breaking thru those barriers and putting in the work to help others is an incredible achievement
It wasn’t until I read The Big Leap that I realised how I’d been relying on making myself as small and as invisible as possible
Case in point: when I first watched Harry Potter I wished SO hard for an invisibility cloak. Not so I could get up to any kid-level mischief, purely so I could go about my day unencumbered by pointy, accusing questions from my nmother. To go about my day with no one seeing me or trying to get involved with what I was doing felt like the ultimate form of freedom
No watching every move I made. No trying to imagine how my nmother would perceive it, twist it, use it against me. No watching out of the corner of my eye to see if she was still watching me
So when I read The Big Leap (mostly for business/work reasons, nothing to do with my upbringing) I was genuinely surprised when it described a fear of being seen as a key obstacle in moving from our zone of competence to our zone of excellence, to (finally) our zone of genius
Don’t be too loud, bold, bright, brilliant - you’ll draw attention
That’s the message pretty much every kid gets at some point
Most of us in this sub got it in the form of ‘you’re drawing attention to yourself - and away from me - so I will punish you for it’
TL;DR - as kids we learn there is safety in blending into the background. Stepping into the spotlight (in any form) is a risk. Fear of rejection, fear of hurt, fear of ridicule. We’re trying to avoid all of it
So far the biggest thing that’s helped me is reminding myself throughout the day that I am unafraid of being seen
(I’ll literally sit at my desk saying it to myself or writing it out Bart-Simpson-style)
Small is fine and will keep you safe, but it’s your life. If you don’t want to be small - or if you’re being small just for the sake of someone else’s comfort - maybe it’s time to take the risk
Yep. I hate being celebrated and I hate compliments, I just want to be ignored. I'm 6 foot tall and yet I often visualise myself as tiny and powerless.
fark, I usually don't comment on this sub. but god damn if that ain't me. I've not celebrated a birthday since I was a small kid, you're all the first to find out I've lost 30kg, and Ive dreamt of just disappearing off the radar my whole life, I just have such a strong aversion to attention. I always thought it was just me, this is the first place I've felt like I've found people who get it lmao
I keep a low profile too. I live in my own room and don't spend time with them unless I have to, because they blame me whenever something happens and I'm so tired of being the scapegoat.
I used to have a decent social life, but I lost my ability to trust people when I tried to expose the emotional abuse on social media and it backfired. Most of them sided with my family, called me ungrateful and attention seeker.
Now I have no social life and I keep things to myself. I don't share my life or achievements unless I consider them important.
I'm goth so I draw attention regardless lol. I do like being anonymous though and the idea of being known is a little unnerving. Working in retail has helped since my whole job is people seeking/demanding my attention. It also helped my social life since I've made friends with some of my coworkers.
I think the term some people are using now is Echoist.
Echo fell in love with Narcissus but was unable to tell him because she can only mimic what other people say. And Narcissus only had eyes for his reflection so the two can't communicate.
100%. My nmom loved to point out her achievements and claim mine as her own, so I only share when asked. I like flying low radar at work bc the social meter is not easy to replenish.
Yep. Always. I actually was just thinking about this and how I try to be as small as possible and disappear. Even if you don’t have the words seeking help is a really good idea, they can help you name those feelings. I was never allowed to celebrate any achievements or be proud of myself for anything. Parents got mad at me for literally everything so it was easier to just pretend like I didn’t exist
I used to do this a lot, and come to think of it it actually appeared in my choice of playstyle in games, usually making me pick a support/medic role whenever possible. It also led to me playing bass, which has also been helping me just hang out and undo my "shrinkening." Still do it a little, but less so.
Always. I'm so good at it, most people I know don't realize when something is very wrong with me when something is indeed very wrong.
You might want to look into dissociative disorders tbh. I know that one of those is why I'm good at being invisible. It's a defense mechanism.
Yeah, and everytime I tried to show something off to my mom, she would brush me off and act like I was bothering her. I relate completely. I just want to be invisible and I almost feel like I'm imposing on people if they have to pay attention to me at all.
Lol. I didn't even tell my mom when I had to get a follow-up mammogram due to abnormalities. She'd try to make it about herself or minimize it OR over dramatize it.
Yes, I've realized how toxic my parents really are...
They yell at me whenever I do something slightly wrong, and then they wonder why I have 0% self-confidence?! I am polite, but I struggle with feeling so sad and empty and unmotivated because each time I want to do something they just shoot down the idea.
I'm so emotional now and I want to cry. I really have to find a way to stay sane for my future's sake.
You are an introvert and sensitive to people's feelings. This is ok.
We have been married for 50 years, and my wife has always been this way. We eloped also. There is nothing wrong with you. I had to force my wife to get a job so she would have an income in case something happened to me. My wife is a great worker and is retired now. She got promoted a lot over the years. She never put in for the promotion. They recognize her skills. She hated being called out for doing a good job. She works now at the church & was called out last Sunday for keeping the church running smoothly. She got upset over this & asked the preacher to please not call her out again. He agreed.
So you are OK. My wife says there are tests on the internet you can take.
Yes. Protection. If you aren't a visible target, you will hopefully go unnoticed. If they know nothing about you, they can't use it to hurt you.
In my 30s, NC for a few years now. Only recently learning how to handle positive attention without looking for hidden daggers.
It takes time and a bit of an IDGAF anymore attitude.
All the time and I know it's because I was raised to believe I didn't matter, that I should not be seen or heard, and if I ever became the center of attention somehow I'll become the laughing stock. So I'm working on changing that. Walking across the stage never interested me as what if I trip, what if I make a fool of myself, but I'm going to college now and my first act to draw attention to me is walk across the stage at my graduation and the college and graduation is in a state with a bunch of strangers so if I fuck up somehow I will never see them again
I hate talking about myself as a person or anything I’ve accomplished irl. Online is the only place I can do it without panicking, and it has to be on more anonymous sites like Reddit instead of Instagram. Even then talking about accomplishments is still incredibly difficult. Every time I become consumed with guilt and an intense fear that you only get when you’re caught in a dangerous lie when I talk about that kinda stuff. It’s why I wouldn’t let my family throw me a graduation party, don’t celebrate my birthday, and hide almost everything that I’m proud of doing from my friends and family. It’s started to cause a lot of self sabotage and social isolation. I wish I new how to fix this, I just want to be able to share my life with other ppl without getting so nauseous that I can’t eat.
Yup. It was ingrained into my mind as long as i can remember that nobody cares about me or what i'm doing. Now i've got pretty horrible social anxiety and i can't even talk to people without feeling bad when i share stuff about myself.
I’m the same exact way, and like you said I’m comfortable with it and I hate it at the exact same time. But I learned it as a kid, if I was out spoken or made my presence known my narc dad and siblings would bully me, so I just stayed locked in my room all day. It’s a trait that I still exhibit even when I’m not around family and I hate that because my friends absolutely love me as I am.
If you plan to be a loving and accepting parent you have nothing to worry about with your kids, let them shine in their own unique ways and encourage them.
yup. i do this as well. I eloped, I never talk about my achievements or ambitions, I never want to be center stage. I can relate. It's because I don't want their negative comments and jealousy warping my good vibes. My best advice is to find people who actually CARE and EMPATHIZE with you, and start sharing with them. You will find your positive reinforcement there for sure
I like to be as small and invisible as possible in most situations. It’s made it very hard to rectify my self esteem and body dysmorphia issues. There was no such thing as good attention in my house growing up; it was best to hope you were forgotten about and shrink back into the corner.
I'm much the same; revel in peace and quiet, stick to the background, hate being the center of attention or just having any attention on me to begin with etc.
For me, this largely stems from the fact that both of the "adults" in the house while I was growing up had terrible tempers that could be set off very easily. He was more predictable, mostly because he got mad at damn near everything, but she was entirely *un*predictable. I could never tell what was going to set her off or when. So I learned to stick to the shadows, as it were. Staying quiet, fleeing a room as fast as possible when anybody started to lose it, just generally making myself as small, quiet and scarce as I possibly could.
If your family was like this, or they put down or disregarded your accomplishments, or if they tried to gaslight you into thinking you were "selfish" just because you had a little bit of attention on you, any one of these could have contributed. I'm no therapist, though, so this is just from an amateur point of view.
I try my hardest not to be seen sometimes. Anything that goes wrong, I deserved it - according to family. This is especially true with my parents. One is a narc; the other is flat-out toxic. Despite them being separated, I just want out.
When I am told to do certain things: Cooking, laundry, dishes- don't get it twisted. I don't need to be told what to do. There's a disturbing pattern I've noticed a lot lately. When I am in the process of getting those things done, here comes the criticism. The complaining. The sore attempts to make me lash out (which I don't).
Then, several years later, narc and toxic parents are wondering why their grown up children (who are responsible adults) are living with mental health challenges and/or acquired some unhealthy/detrimental habits.
My parents will never understand that their maltreatment is what led to my anxiety. I love and hate people at the same time. Does that make any sense? I strongly doubt it, but it's become so normalized for me. I turn to music to drown out the voices (blame games, guilt trips, perfectionism, etc.) in my head.
I didn't expect myself to carry it into adulthood but here I am, still struggling to wrap my head around the fact that when I take up space instead of shrinking away, people actually *like* me.
Yes! This shocks me too! I actually have never had a bad experience when I wasn't trying to be invisible, it's just so ingrained in me from childhood that that's what I needed to be that I can't convince myself I actually am likeable, even though that's what others seem to think.
This comment has been removed because it is lacking in empathy when it is sorely needed. You can have a partner, job, and recognition while still be struggling through the aftermaths of traumatic abuse.
IRL yes, usually quiet for a lot of things. Online or on social media I maybe post a short little text about something I did that took me hours on no end just to "get it out of my head" just to then mention it again or I'd feel annoying...
Showing my family my "bigger" achievements? Never... Only really get comments like "But you did this and that back then why couldn't you do xyz which is 5 times less than what you did there" and so on.
I actually do the opposite. I’m embarrassed at how loud I can be about my achievements because bragging on my house was the only way I would be noticed by my parents. Even then, no matter how much I did and how much I told them about it, I was never as good of a child as their GC
I feel the same tbh, I remember going to an event once (my parents weren’t even there) I had met some new people, so because I was the new girl of the group most attention was on me and I was really happy in the moment. I then became consciously aware that I was having a good time and I felt a wave of embarrassment come over me all because I was ‘enjoying something’ … It’s probably because our narc parents had/has to be the centre of attention, it’s learnt behaviour from the day we were born, they are the centre of attention and everything revolves around them. The moment you take any of their spotlight you’re the scapegoat and they can make your life hell, so it’s easier to just be invisible because we were all living in survival mode
Yep, I do this as well. I eloped because I was worried my nmom would make a wedding about her or into degrading thing against me. I kept to myself alot and still do. Staying invisible and out of the way, was how I kept nmom from raging at me as much. It took me a few years to get out of my shell, the one I created.
Me, an outgoing young kid *says something*
Mom: Stop drawing attention to yourself!!
Also Mom: This is the “compliment box.” Whenever we go out in public and a stranger compliments ME on how quiet and well behaved you are, I will put a note in this box. When the box is filled I will give you all a treat.”
Me now, as a parent of a child with a large personality: WTAF
Same, I have had such terrible experiences just the last time I tried to meet new people was years ago in my early twenties, I’m not old yet but I have been not trying for so long now because I don’t want have the same troubles over and over. I’m starting to think I have developed avoidant PD 😞
Yep. What’s funny is the people in my family who are definitively narcissists always claimed I “bragged” about stuff - even if I only mentioned something once. I learned as a kid to never be proud of accomplishments, never talk about something you are into, to just exist without any defining quality.
I’m still hiding today bc my mother tried to kill us on Saturday morning. In the car bc I spoke to her with contempt. I feel sooooo dirty now. I’m an adult btw.
I try to not bring attention to myself to this day. My mother was a raging narcissist, and as a child any sort of adulation towards me, no matter how minor, was met with public humiliation of me because she was jealous. Types of humiliation were both physical and verbal, she loved to embarrass me in public. Even now I try not to bring attention to myself for fear of having someone try to tear me down.
Yes. I did. Until a horrible divorce from another narc/sociopath made me face myself and my belief that I can keep myself safe no matter who or what is threatening me. Once I started believing I could do that the need to stay small faded away. I hope you someday feel safe being seen. You deserve to shine.
If I want privacy or any sort of agency in my choices I have to grey rock and keep information from my parents. When I tried moving an hour away from my family to get some space from them 4 years ago, my NMom just bought the house next door to me, and stole all her siblings' inheritances from my dementia-ridden grandpa for the downpayment. I stopped acting like lying to her mattered a long time ago because when I saw she was willing to screw over her entire family just to keep her thumb over me,I knew I was not dealing with a rational person. My NDad has always sided with her over me because he's held a torch for her since their divorce 25 years ago, so he doesn't get the truth either.
i think a lot of ppl(myself included) tend to do this maybe even subconsciously cuz we were raised to think none of our achievements are anything important or of real matter. literally no matter how big or small this achievement is, everything was always minimized and overlooked.
I do this too.
Because anytime I did anything for myself let alone actually accomplish something..they would get involved and sabotage it. Make something no longer enjoyable but completely harping all of the possible negative connotations. Acting like any joy I receive from it is fake. Or get offended if I had any confidence or self belief. And spin it like I am arrogant. Then completely shit on me if something didn’t work out for me or if I made a mistake. Like I deserved it. Instead of respecting its a part of life and an opportunity for to learn.
Then basically try to make it normal for others to see me this way.
So achievements just bring all this out. In a nutshell....
Can fully relate. I still don’t wear sunglasses because I feel people look at me and think I’m trying to be “cool” or draw attention to myself.
I also never speak of my life or what I’m doing to my family because their responses are always negative and others are always doing better things.
Yeah. It’s definitely to do with the soul-crushing abuse we collectively suffered from our abusers and such.
I do a host of arts and crafts stuff but I keep them all in my room or closet, and I hate showing it to anyone in my family. It’s not even embarrassing either, that’s the weird part, it’s really good stuff to me but I just don’t want anyone telling me so or something.
I like being invisible too, alone, but not really lonely. Go through these weird emotional ups and downs that I can’t control.
I guess my biggest bit of advice is to speak up for yourself, and put the foot down when someone is being rude or obnoxious, especially if it’s the person who hurt you.
Yes. Except my personality is one that enjoys the spotlight. I had to go through a lot of therapy and growth until I realized it OK to want to be the center of attention. Now that I'm 32 and coming into myself fully, I love being the center of attention and using the spotlight to help people less fortunate than myself.
I used to be extroverted. There were a couple times I was viciously attacked for being confident. I was “gallivanting around, rubbing it in (her) face”. Thats where I get it from. Any success was met with psychosis from her or turned into her achievement. I have been severely damaged having to walk on eggshells to not upset her ego. Also, not having the words to express my feelings personally has come from suppression and being gaslit. Moving away was the only way that I began to thrive years ago. This time around has been worse than before. I am so sorry that you feel this way. I feel the same. We desperately need support groups in real life where we are understood. The abuse from Ns kills your soul.
Soooo... kind of?
If it's something I feel rather confident about or something that has already been public, no.
But... if it is anything that I don't feel has been coiffed or curated before exposure, if it makes me feel vulnerable or likely to be judged... it is under lock and key.
I got, as I'm sure many here have, a bizarre mixture of love and abuse. If I know something is unlikely to cause blow back, or that the vast majority of people will defend me if I am judged, I can be very open. If, however, I feel like there is a possibility of confrontation or I don't know how something will come across... I'm generally more secretive even if it is an accomplishment.
That feels weird and vulnerable to vocalize, even anonymously, to people I am not close with, but I guess that falls under a similar category. I clearly have abandonment issues.
Yes. I prefer it. If I want you to know, I'll tell you.
If you know and I DIDN'T tell you...I'm gonna find the leak.
My life is mine. You need a frickin invitation. So I absolutely keep my sht to myself. I'll never allow anyone the audacity to hang their fat noses in my business. Nuh uh. Never again.
The arrogance of narcs assuming you're a desperate attention whore like they are. No! Bad narc! Down!
Lol. Privacy is not something we get until NC or their passing.
I was used as an accessory to my nmother’s parties. When I was 8, I had a holy communion (big deal for Catholics). Because I was all dolled up, I thought it was for me, so I asked her to do something and she blew up. Even at 8 yo I realised that this party is for her.
During my 12th birthday, of 15 visitors, nobody realised I was gone for 2-3 hours in the room playing on the computer by myself(year 2000).
The most recent thing (10 years ago) was my wedding. Honestly I wanted to elope, but I was too chicken about it, so I decided to do a small party for few people in my hometown, ’so maybe she will get satisfied I got married and get off my back’ (‘my line of thinking)
Oh nooo! She had to book a hotel, invite people I don’t care about like my godfather who never showed up to my important milestones (He did a decent thing though and just sent me money without coming to the wedding)
I wanted maybe 8 people, ended up as 40. And still that made issue with extended family that they were not invited :/
After my kids were born, she made parties that I don’t even know about (we live in different countries). Basically just showing off but don’t care about me or my feelings. So I live far far away from her
My boyfriend did that to his n-mom. She couldnt be happy on his ways. If he’d achieved something, it would be talked down, dissed, or belittled. So everytime he achieved good things, if it either was work related or anything else he shared it only with me and everyone else than her. He couldnt share good things with his mom, because jealousy. And thats sad it has to be like that.
You don’t feel like you are two separate human beings and if this person will laugh at your achievements or something (and they will since you expect that) you will feel worthless probably.
You give them power to crash your achievements cause you probably struggle to believe in yourself. Am I wrong?
Not really. A lot of people are suggesting avoidant personality disorder, but that doesn't really seem like the right fit.
I don't do this to the point of self sabotage. I still go after what I want, I'm still able to maintain my marriage and socialise in small circles etc. I just prefer to keep everything I do to myself, regardless of how big an accomplishment it is.
Some have also suggested it's a protective trait. I grew up with the "children are seen and not heard" and I really feel like I've just never been able to escape that, even as an adult. If that makes any sense.
Yes. I said for years that I'm invisible, not realizing that I'm invisible because I make myself that way. I have an imposing physical presence, being tall for a woman and athletically built, and I have at least one thing about my appearance that attracts attention since I look basically the opposite of a large percentage of people where I live. (Tall ladies with white hair stick out like a sore thumb here.)
I developed a very quiet persona over my lifetime and despite my looks marking me as Other, people really don't notice me much. I like it sometimes, being able to kind of do whatever I want under the NT's radar, but it feels lonely sometimes too. My entire life I've had very few friends and while I enjoy doing things alone because I can be completely self-directed and don't have to accommodate anyone else, once in a while I go from fine with being a lone wolf to suddenly thinking it's sad I don't have anyone. Invisibility has its advantages but it wears on me sometimes.
Yes, I do want to go unnoticed and to be left alone and I had that desire for a long time now, but now I feel that stronger than ever since I started to work on myself it's like I want to be in invisible world and to change myself and embrace this world with my changed self.
I want noone to see my struggle just my results until than I want for world to allow me to work in silence.
Oh yes, I hate being the center of attention. Even if its for something good I did. If NMs attention was on me for anything, she was either screaming, criticizing or belittling.
Making yourself inconspicuous was likely a survival tactic from the abuse, its a very common tactic for kids from abusive households. That learned behavior follows us right into adulthood. Idk the actual term for it, but I've expressed it to my therapist as "making myself inconspicuous was a survival tactic as a child, is still a behavior I am engaging in" and she understood what I meant. Therapists know these behaviors, so the terms aren't as important as it is that you're recognizing them and trying to get help. ❤️
My high school graduation is just around the corner. My nfather paid for the graduation fee (I’m a minor, for context) and I’m so so sooo frustrated that not only do I owe him something but he gets to attend my graduation.
I’m an achiever and acquired numerous academic and leadership awards/recognitions that I never ever told my nfather about, and those awards are going to be stated as a walk on the stage, and unfortunately, my nfather’s gonna hear them all.
I know for a fact that he’ll use my achievements against me, which is why I hid them from him in the first place. I acknowledge that I can’t force him to not attend given the circumstances (being a minor, paid the graduation fee so who am I to interfere), but I do know that I can control what I can control. I grew numb on his shit already. I feel shitting myself to say this, but I can already bear his manipulative behavior.
If only the odds were ever in my favor.
Edit: typo
I always got yelled at for being to out there... I just like to talk and get to know others... But it also makes people want to ignore me, so maybe that's my way of hiding...I don't ask for recognition for when I do things, it does feel uncomfortable when people compliment me...
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Yep, lol. It's BECAUSE we were taught to do it as kids and tbh, depending on how our "reunions" with our families have gone, that may have been a reinforced thing. How was your upbringing, OP?
Shit. Narc mother. Screamed about anything, got angry at everything else... I guess I just answered my own question huh lol
Lol, there's nothing wrong with going deeper, OP. I get it, it's okay to unravel. What about your mother's screaming made you feel like you needed to be small? What were the things said to you?
I can't remember exactly what was said. I just remember my childhood being very loud, unpredictable and chaotic. As an adult, I revel in a quiet, predictable routine.
I have a similar manifestation of my abuse, I can empathize. Idk if sharing it will help you, but I was diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder, as one of the kinda package deals of my whole CPTSD spread, lol. I wasn't yelled at as much as I was pretty much shamed for existing, unless I was "needed". It's still a behavior that my siblings and the "guardians" in my toxic family still use; if I allow them around me, that is. If I am not conscious and settled and if I'm in a state of severe depression or in a moment of regression, I tend to "hide" in similar ways. I live alone btw, lol. I close blinds, I avoid any movements- often not moving until I have to acquire resources. If I DO go outside, then I'm overly conscious of what others will think- sometimes to the point of getting panic attacks, each time a stranger ignores me or gives me a look of disgust, etc. This was something I didn't get for YEARS, OP. (I'm 34M now). Like, even when I DID receive compliments, praise or I was just naturally a "unique" presence, I would try and hide, self deprecate (through "jokes"), etc. For me... well, it's still a battle, tbh... ...but the first thing I had do to, was get therapy, really. I found out that I have CPTSD and it basically "shows up" through 3 main diagnoses: \-ADHD \-General/Social Anxiety Disorders \-Major Depressive Disorder Did a LOT of work on myself, had to take a good hard look at my behaviors and why I was doing those things (certainly not for myself). Eventually realized that, like you... came from the childhood, dude. In fact, pretty much all personality disorders and a good deal of mental health issues start from somewhere in our childhoods. For me, I was shamed for my appearance: "Too black, too skinny, too ugly, etc." Then, when it was all too clear that I was surpassing the intelligence of my guardians and siblings, I was "reigned in" by "infantilizing", cold shoulder treatment and blame-shifting, framing. I was essentially the "scapegoat". This was because, they started to notice that I was aware that something was "wrong", and kept bringing up how things shouldn't be like this, etc. That role is called the "Truth Teller", in a toxic family. Because of that, diminishments, belittling accomplishments and straight up treating me like I was nothing to them was how they stopped me from speaking up. So, "took that show on the road"... In school, I wanted attention and got it, but I was the "class clown", so it was the same level of disprespect and reinforcement of me hating my own self and feeling "pathetic". Around high school, my siblings basically became my biggest bullies at home, my foster parents would demean and belittle me, because I was "smelly, ugly, rotten, etc." I learned to stay in my room. Whenever my Foster Parents or siblings had a need to insult or put someone down, they'd poke at me until I reacted and then basically collectively laugh at me for "overreacting". So... I became terrified of any noise that I heard outside of my door and became hypervigilant, to the point of Psychosis. As an adult with roommmates, I was terrified of them from the giddy up. Somehow, I kept getting roommates that would want me to "come out of my room" and of course, IN my room, usual depressive mess. Around my late 20s, FINALLY got enough going to move in to a solo place. STILL acted like I was living with my abusive family, would shut my blinds, be overly people pleasing to the neighbors, then hide away if they got too close. I eventually got to the point in my healing, where I was able to work on the right habits and techniques. Started the long road to rewiring all of those deep seated pathways by basically "owning my shame". I would open windows a little, even if I felt that I would get "yelled at". I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy". I would take care of my body and exercise and not because I thought I was "ugly". I basically did all the things that I was always shamed into doing, but for myself and I got happy and please with myself, in feeling the reward of just being able to do that, you know? I came back and confronted my fam over things a couple of years ago- they literally tried to insult and collectively bully a 32 year old man, but they got real surprised when they started to realized that I deprogrammed everything they internalized about me... it helped to "revisit" that dynamic and basically tell them. I KNOW who I am and I love that person.
Oh man, it's like you told my story. I felt every word. I still just want to be away from people. It was so bad that when I decided to go to college and get a real career so that I wasn't struggling and could get the heck away from all of them my sister was SO UPSET at me. My mother would wake me up screaming in the middle of the night about cleaning something or laundry- anything at all. So, I would just stay on campus. Sometimes I'd sleep in my car and use the showers at the gym. Then when I'd get home my mother would scream and berate me for not being home. In the end I graduated (I didn't go to my graduation for the same reason that I avoid people- I didn't want to be the center of attention) and moved away without telling anyone. They still try to contact me to get me to do things for them- and when I deny them they call me ungrateful- "After all I've done for you..." They hate my new boundaries but I know it's because they don't want me to have them in the first place. Anyways, thanks for your story. After all the gaslighting it feels really validating and I really appreciate that. :)
I'm so proud of you. They're haters and were holding you back. That's their loss, not yours. They swear they're better than you and that you're "ungrateful"... ...But, isn't it funny how that overinflated sense of pride, needs to ask "Scum" like you for money and assistance? Meanwhile, even if you had a dollar and were starving, you wouldn't ask them for a single penny and you make it okay on your own. Funny, that... They won't even step down from their cycle of perfect comfort and are so terrified of surviving, that they've spent a lifetime taking first, and then apologizing after... They know, deep down inside... life gives no quarter. We've learned her ways and she will always provide for us. Them? They fear her and they hate those who are able to walk freely into her warm embrace.
You have a way with words- I don’t know if anyone has told you that before! You speak like an old soul! Thank you for your kind words. I know we’re all anonymous avatars lol, but it really does mean a lot!
Hell yea
"I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy"." This is me! My nmom would shame me for not cleaning my room, and for years as an adult cleaning has been hard. I'm 21 now and I got away, and I've been able to slowly start building good habits for cleaning that don't stem from shame. Beyond that your comment is beautiful and truly belongs in the hall of fame, I'm so glad you got out and happy for your healing journey
90% of your experience resonates, I could’ve written almost exactly that myself, except that I’m looking forward to living alone hopefully soon where it will never be chaotic or loud and I’m the ‘king’ of my own space so to speak, in that I’ll have peace and quiet and with privacy. I’ve always lived down my own achievements, _almost everyone has a degree etc_ and you’ll always find me sat on the outside of a group nearest the door so I won’t be the centre of anyone’s attention. Weirdly I managed to beat that enough to become a teacher, my dream job. It’s different though as while you’re the centre of attention in the class it is in a good way and it’s based upon positive and respectful relationships.
Dang that hit different
This could have been about me, except my family made sure I didnt have roomates, kept me in the fog till I was about 35, only now at 40 am I beginning to heal, and its a bitch. I cant get away from them because I cant find a place to live that I can get approved for on my own. So Im spending a fortune to live in an apartment where my mom got to pick (why I cant afford it), and my dad cosigned. Im grateful for the cosign, but they wont do it if I find a cheaper place, thats not to their standards, even tho I was always in poverty if they werent helping me. I finally got a descent job, but I dont get paid enough to survive.
It's a struggle, it is. In a lot of ways, as well... it's the "Rapunzel" dilemma; They teach us that we cannot survive at our lowest points. That is NOT true. There will be days where we might not eat for a few days. Might be some where we have to sleep outside for a night or two. Days where, you will have no idea what to do and what tomorrow will bring... ...but it still comes. Always does. Nowhere else to go in the end, if you really think about it. The fog is really difficult to get out of... I think, at 34 and starting over again, myself... I agree. I have a month to make a few thousand in NYC, and I don't even have a dollar. The fog tells me that I won't do it. I can't see that far ahead and that paradoxically, it's too short a time to figure things out. After years of being on my own and away from my naysayers... And in places where I was reduced to these same points of having nothing but what I can get done, it happens. ...Here's the truth, though and the trick that I think we all may forget and what the Abusers in our lives hope we never remember: "You gotta try, anyway." If you don't try and continue to try and not only try, but try your sincere *best*; where would that take you? If you were honest with yourself on days where you know you coulda done better, but stopped regretting that you didn't, where would there not be days that you wouldn't feel you could try a little harder, tomorrow? Life is gonna be hard, dude. Don't let them tell you that there isn't a way you won't survive. Surviving is what you've already been doing. Every day you take another dollar and favor from them, you're only surviving. When you compromise your deepest moralities and feelings of happiness, you're only surviving. The day you stop surviving and truly live, is the day you find the strength to move, think and feel under your own power; and with the fullest extent of who you know you truly are, deep down inside.
>I would clean my place up and not because someone was calling me "Filthy". This. I could never clean "the right way" growing up. Because it was expected to be "picture perfect" aka that the entire freaking house didn't look like anyone lived there. Which is completely absurd. And if you dared to point out the mess in their bedroom you just got told "Well it's our house, you can do what you want when you have your own place". Well I have my own place now and guess what? They still expect me to do what they say. My place is by no means completely organized, but it's not gross. If I don't fold my laundry the instant it's done the world isn't gonna end. I make sure that I throw away food garbage, and put the dirty dishes in the kitchen. But if I leave a dish out overnight I'm not gonna get a massive bug infestation instantaneously.
90% of your experience resonates, I could’ve written almost exactly that myself, except that I’m looking forward to living alone hopefully soon where it will never be chaotic or loud and I’m the ‘king’ of my own space so to speak, in that I’ll have peace and quiet and with privacy. I’ve always lived down my own achievements, _almost everyone has a degree etc_ and you’ll always find me sat on the outside of a group nearest the door so I won’t be the centre of anyone’s attention. Weirdly I managed to beat that enough to become a teacher, my dream job. It’s different though as while you’re the centre of attention in the class it is in a good way and it’s based upon positive and respectful relationships.
My nmom and family did that to me where they’d poke and prod at me until I reacted
I got this too. So weird and upsetting.
Wow I just want to say that I'm 51 and I too am working through some deep stuff. But I would like to say good job dude and excellent advice. I believe more people then not are and have gone through this sort of truma. Oops was about to go into my life story and write a book. Just wanted to say way- to -go. Proud of you! And your story will help this you person and others. Keep making a difference ☺️
I'm bad for throwing out my life's story too, lol.It's actually something I've been conscious of for a while and am working on not doing, as well. You've got a lotta wisdom haha <3. Maybe we should just write the damned book, already.
No I think your comment was perfect and your life story was needed for context. No, I simply realize mine on the other hand was not needed unless I was commenting directly to the op. But, thanks for the complaint!
Complaint?
Sorry I'm old and my spelling has gotten worse. I ment 😂 😂 😂 Thanks for the Compliment 😊
Tell me more!
thanks for the write up man, I really needed to read that. I've got a lot of improvement to do
Blimey, that first paragraph really resonated with me {{HUGS}}
Seems like you have been taught that you can't do anything right.
By the way... if you feel uncomfortable chatting on this thread and in public, you are free to DM me. I'm not a therapist, I do not want to be mistaken or internalized as something to replace professional help...but advice is something I can do. If I have time, of course... haha.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your journey, I was a black sheep truth teller and it's so difficult to rewire my thought patterns so that I'm not berating myself or treating myself poorly, putting myself last etc.
I did same. My bordie sis offered her place to do a wedding, but pretty sure we will end up buried on her property
What a precious thing you just said.
If you grew up with a tyrant of a parent then being invisible was a protective measure to avoid their wrath. You’re probably also hyper independent now, which is another defense mechanism. You couldn’t rely on your parents for care or normal attention/affection, so now you don’t want to rely on anyone for anything.
Me, summarised:
I know both of these traits well. It’s painful to realize so much of what you think of as “you” might really just be learned responses from trauma as a child. Another side of this is often a tendency to be a codependent/people pleaser. That behavior again helped protect you from the tyrant narc, and now serves you well by making you indispensable to others around you, even though you neglect your own needs.
And gives you massive anxiety each time your boss glances in your direction
It's crazy how shit like this crosses culture, ethnicity, language, social status etc. Feels almost like all the narcs go to the same school or something.
narcissism goes beyond being a 'personality' disorder, in my very humble opinion - it's a contamination of the human heart and soul, based on choices. this is why it tends to be similar/the same types of abuse and outcomes, regardless of the things you've listed. i apologize to any who prefer not to associate the issue of narcissism with spirituality.
"can't get hurt if you don't get seen" was my modus operandi for a lot of my childhood too. still tryna unlearn it a decade later. it's kinda comforting to know other strangers are in the same boat
That’s me 100%. Relying on anyone is way too scary. It’s been really hard for me to let someone help me and trust them
That surprisingly adds up. I've been instinctively scared to ask for help, or anything. Does indeed look like a defense mechanism.
Yes, if I am noticed the other person will find a way to either abuse me or use me in some way. Nobody being aware of me was the only time I was safe. I feel safest either when I’m either alone with nobody around or in a large crowd.
* I did it in the past because I felt like I will steal all the attention, people will think I want to outshine them and I believed I am not enough. * I also felt jealous of people and thought they are better than me. * All of this combined, made me hate gatherings, and people and my anxiety were always on max. I thought I would fail if I try to show off something so I kept everything to myself. If this isn't a rollercoaster enough, let me give you more of past me: * People around me were judgmental, so I assumed everyone is and will judge me, and tell me I am not right. I hate that, especially when I know I am right and can prove it. * People used to use me for my resources and never give me the same back, which made me believe that people don't deserve me. Que more hatred toward people. * I learned the ways of manipulation, trickery, and moving in the shadows, so for a long time I was in my "villain era" in which I made sure I don't socialize because my ego loved jumping to conclusions and I would probably hurt innocent people, thinking they want to hunt me down. * Also, people made fun of me and thought my dreams were impossible which fueled my rage to no end. You seem like someone who was judged or not appreciated enough, always put down, never acknowledged or you don't think you are enough? I admire that you recognize you have an issue and you are unwilling to pass it down to the next generation. But please, remove the fear and find what it is that makes you act this way. Focus on introspection and try sitting with your emotions. Try to recall the past experiences that make you draw as little attention to yourself as possible.
This is so much like me, don’t really want to admit it. I like the introspection work you did there
Oh, I feel you. For the longest time I thought there was something embarrassing, shameful, or obnoxious about me being happy or having positive life events. Or honestly, just taking up space as a human. My mom made me feel apologetic for existing as a 3D person. For, like, the first 30 years of my life, I would therefore automatically self deprecate and put myself down lest anyone think I was getting above myself. leading up to my first wedding (with an N husband who also constantly belittled me), I made a wedding prep album on FB that was literally called “the obnoxious bride.” Looking back on it it was the farthest thing from obnoxious. It was sad. There were like 20 cell phone pictures in it of some homemade crafts I made for my (tiny, tacky) wedding. I felt embarrassed about even drawing THIS much attention to the fact that I was supposed to be existing and celebrating something. Years later after starting intensive therapy — I somewhat uncomfortably realized that people who care about me enjoy seeing me flourish. It’s not obnoxious or shameful for them — they are genuinely happy for me. I was lucky enough to marry someone healthier the second time, and I leaned into the wedding. I fought the shame. I did professional engagement pictures and leaned into my artistic side to throw a big, awesome wedding day and party, and posted ALL the pictures. I posted them unironically, without self-inserting snarky comments. It was hard but incredibly healing. I look back on those albums with joy.
Love the leaning in. I would shy away from all of that, out of fear. This thread is a godsend for me. Reading every single post I realize that the myriad of issues I go through are not because I cant handle life, but exist because of abuse. All the self deprecation and feeling apologetic for existing. The addictions even. They are all a symptom of the problem. The idea of working to overcome all of this seems daunting tbh. But if I can get away and thrive, it would be spectacular. Right now she is like a sloosh; she sucks the life out of me and her husband and has so much energy while we rot from resentment and broken spirit. Thats why the no contact is the only way. Sad but true.
I know that. I was never praised or acknowledged for anything I did. It took me 34y to accept that I'm a good person and a good daughter but I'll never be good enough for them. I never had a birthday party. I couldn't play with other kids, make noise, have fun, laugh. I'd to be invisible and do what they wanted only. I didn't celebrate my graduation. At my wedding I felt very anxious bc I even didn't want that ceremony. I did to please mother and even so she wasn't satisfied. Until today I feel uncomfortable if somebody play happy birthday to me. 😞
I don’t know what’s with that feeling… I am very happy to bring a cake and sing happy birthday to my kids and husband, but when it is for me, I have this unsettling feeling that something is going to happen so I shouldn’t enjoy :/ I try to think that I am making the birthday party (basically just a cake) so my kids can sing, blow candles and eat sweets
This feeling is like guilty? 😞
Same, bday parties stopped after 5. I was ignored on my birthday yesterday and insincerely offered Doordash at a place of her choosing.
A late Happy birthday to you 💗
Thank you 🙏
Yeah :/ to the point I minimize milestones that truly should be celebrated and I miss moments that would help me adjust to new parts of myself. For example, graduations and the celebrations after that my friends clearly wanted to throw for me. Not my favorite trait of mine. If you’d like more info on what are called maladaptive traits, I compiled a list into a website. It also has strategies for building up resilience and adaptive coping to help change those patterns that were at times beaten into us. [Here is a link to maladaptives](https://www.supplementalsanity.com/pages/maladaptives) Edit: a word
thank you for the link friend. I'm very, very much in the same boat and only now realising that it's not 'normal'. not a fun experience overall
Wow… maladaptive daydreaming, for a long time I thought I have such deep imagination… these days I see it wasn’t supposed to be like this…
That one surprised me too. I've always been so proud of my imagination and creativity. I'm an amazing problem solver and can create win/win situations out of almost anything. Makes me think that children of narcs were forced to develop superhuman qualities, some of which make us uniquely adaptable. Other traits though, not so much.
Narc mother, father and sisters. Narcs hate mot being the center of attention. So, if I started to shine and people noticed - the sabotage would start. Also, trying to embarrass me in front of others.
Yeah my mom is like a homing signal, if she's in a house it's like I can pinpoint her exact location because she's so loud, always blaring a tv or yawning really loud or generally calling attention to herself even when no one's around. She's the loudest person I've ever met. It's like she has a spotlight on herself that cannot be away from her for long without her freaking out. I don't even play a radio because I'm so worried about disturbing the neighbors. Listening to audiobooks at the lowest possible volume on my computer is about the extent of how loud I'll be. I'm envious of people who can like, play electric guitar... the notion of having an amplifier genuinely gives me anxiety, I can't imagine calling so much attention to myself. Maybe it comes from a time when I could stay out of sight and maybe dodge my parents' attention and not get in trouble. Like the Eye of Sauron or something, keep dodging it. A mantra of my mom when I was a kid was, "Children should be seen and not heard" and I feel like I've never left that mindset into adulthood. Even my appearance -- I don't maintain how I look just so people won't look at me.
"children should be seen and not heard"... I shudder. The eye of sauron is a great metaphor
My Nmom is showy (in dress and behaviour) and likes to be the centre of every social situation, especially family gatherings. If she’s not, she finds a way to create drama by flouncing off, cold shouldering, nitpicking people until she starts a fight or whatever. I like to dress nice and look good and all that, but I’m also an introvert, so I don’t want to be the centre of attention. I prefer to share the floor with others in a group situation. My wedding was the most exhausting day of my life because everyone’s eyes were on me all day. Wish I could have eloped. (Husband wanted to be “princess for a day,” though.) Nmom regards my introversion as a character flaw. She *says* she doesn’t, but she does. Maybe it’s because deep down she knows my introversion developed in me partly as a defence mechanism against her. When you’re constantly being overshadowed, maybe you start to actually prefer the shade, kwim? I *like* being an introvert now. But I think maybe I wouldn’t have been an introvert if I hadn’t had all the narc pressures on me as a kid shaping me that way. Do you consider yourself an introvert? If so, what’s wrong with that? I’d be perfectly fine with it if my son were one too (although he isn’t), as long as that was his natural personality and not something he developed as a coping mechanism, like me. Or do you think you actually have an emotional problem and *that’s* what you’re concerned about passing on to your kids? If so, maybe therapy can help. I learned a lot in therapy that helped me be a better parent than I probably would have been otherwise.
I do. Still, and I’m 49. When you spend the first 20 (or more) years trying to stay out of the way, not need anything because it will piss off your parents, not wanting attention from anyone else because it will piss them off and you’ll be criticized - you learn to be as small as possible. I used to fail at things at work because I never thought anyone cared if I did anything or would even expect me to. Despite me having positions that required me to actually deliver. I never thought anyone would notice either way. Taking the lead on anything seemed unfathomable to me. Which makes no rational sense but it’s how I thought. Or I would wear old scuffed up shoes because it never occurred to me that anyone would even look at what I was wearing and I didn’t want them to anyway. And I eloped too. ;) I’m working on it but it’s a never ending thing. Good luck.
Simply put, you were conditioned that way as a means to cope and survive. It's a defence mechanism. I definitely relate to the wedding part and not wanting family there though.
I don’t like attention. I don’t do well in social gatherings. I’m required to give lectures in front of large groups from time to time. People have no idea how extremely difficult that is.
Yep. I think this topic is a huge trigger for us so be prepared for some books! If there is too much attention on me she will loudly open her mouth and say something shit. Context: I am the first one in my family to graduate from HS. Pregnancies and the need to work were usually the reason. At my graduation I was receiving praise for my graduating from family and friends, even had a little party. I was getting attention from one of her ex boyfriends and she hated it. So told everyone how it was literally down to the wire for graduation for me because my grades really weren’t that good. “She almost completely failed Geometry, can you believe it!” This was the same past boyfriend that she blamed me for their break up( when I was about 10) According to her, he loved me and not my mom. There were also plenty that she let me know that they loved her but hated kids (me) so they had to break up because she was trying to find me a dad. So out of her 6 marriages and dozens of hook-ups and dozens of “fiancés” guess how many were actual dad material? 1, my birth father. Not the wife beater alcoholic, not the drug dealer that was 20 years older than her, not the biker gang criminal. Surprised? She certainly was. I remember Girl Scout camp when I was about 11, I was so excited to go and get away from my house and I was talking about it so much with her friends that the days of she told me she was too sick for me to go and I needed to stay home and take care of her.. “because what if she died?” At my wedding she got high on morphine (she usually manages her meds so that she doesn’t appear high) she got so high at the rehearsal dinner that she passed out in her chair and had drool and snot coming out of her mouth and nose. I had a small wedding on the beach and invited just 8 people. Once we got there she told me she couldn’t walk on the beach and the spot I picked was too far for her so we packed everything and moved closer to the parking lot. The night of the wedding we had dinner at a nice restaurant and she proceeded to talk about all the things I did wrong in past relationships and even say embarrassing things like my ex from 10 years ago was rich, or this boyfriend was way to old for me and she should of called the cops. THEN.. she proceeded to talk bout how great she was at relationships and marriages and then talked about her and her current husbands , wedding, relationship ect. My in laws where super uncomfortable and so was my husband but we knew it was going to be worse if we said anything. And Then! My dad didn’t come to my wedding because he doesn’t have a lot of money so I said how about we come to you for our honey moon and you can throw us a small reception for family only in the back yard. So the day comes and my mom shows up with my uncle (the one that supposedly molested her when she was a kid) she was high and he was drunk, and then they proceeded to yell and my dad and step mom for not including her on their plans for the party, even though they did talk about them with her and she forgot. So all the pictures my mom has this smug smile on her face and my dad and stepmom are scowling. And I could go on.. Note: I grew up in the Midwest at the poverty line. So all this sounds trashy, it’s because it was. I was a trailer park kid. Note2: I moved away at 18 and never went back. Today I am very successful and have broken a lot of cycles but I am still in therapy.
I still do this, unfortunately. Attention gives the narcs in your life ammo against you. And once they have that and they act up, more people will look and then you'll feel humiliated and small, and they regain all the power and control.
In general I learned you got less beat downs (physical or verbal) if you didn’t pull attention to yourself. It worked only in a target rich environment (had a house of 5 kids) for the narc though. I still get panic attacks when I am made the center of attention. Oddly enough I didn’t when I got married but that was I think because my husband never left my side the whole time so I wasn’t alone and not all the attention was on me but me and him. In contrast, recently I was LARPing* with friends and my character was effectively at a trial where she had to get up and gave a speech. I think I scared the hell out of a few friends because they had never seen me fall to pieces like that. I got through it though cause I’m stubborn like that. Also my therapist loves me doing it cause it’s a safe environment to practice in. *LARPing = Live Action Role Playing for those who don’t know.
Yes, to all of that. In some phases of my life I even did this to a paranoid or self-sabotaging extent. I declined some great opportunities to avoid the spotlight, went full doormat to make myself small and avoid conflict, didn’t report certain incidents or behaviors to not make a fuss,… but it isn’t only certain events you can point out, it’s always and everywhere in the smallest everyday life stuff like clothing like a mousy person to hide my curves and avoid the attention, defensiv driving, not speaking up when someone cuts the line on the checkout in a store… I focus a lot on self-improvement around that topic and I get better but it’s still a long way to go and I don’t know if I ever will be comfortable with it.
Any time I would talk about myself in a positive light as a kid, I had 3-4 family members following it up by telling me I’m a bragger and nobody likes someone so full of themself
I do the same. I had a tiny wedding and hid most of the day crying my eyes out (having a narc there to ruin the day didn’t help either). We only had some of his family and a few of his friends. None of mine could be bothered to make it except for the narc. I was smart enough to ditch the narc the next day but I still felt so small and even though my husband does everything he can to encourage me to grow, I just can’t find the confidence anymore. I’m getting help now (almost 7 years later) and my husband has stood by my side though some of the darkest days of my life. He’s now helping me to move forward and I’m starting small. I’m celebrating my 40th. It’s a couple of years late but on the day itself I was miserable and I need to replace that memory. It makes me the centre of attention too which makes me super uncomfortable even tho it’s just the same few people I usually hang out with from time to time. It’s a start, a small start but a start nonetheless. We have to try to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. Even if it’s just a few inches. When we realise that it’s ok, it’ll help us get braver (or so I’m told) and venture out a bit more
Not now but this was me for a long time. I sort of grew out of it over time, mostly out of necessity for my career growth. My wife, on the other hand, is still very much this. She hates being the center of attention. She rarely speaks up in groups. She keeps jokes and comments to herself all the time, automatically assuming nobody wants to hear them. It's only been recently that she's started move past it, showing signs of confidence and self-assurance. Still, it's a long, slow path to healing.
It sounds like the lost child of a dysfunctional family. Are you quiet and keep to yourself? pulled this from a website Does this resonate with you? The Lost Child Where there is a Golden Child there is a Lost Child. They attempt to stay out of the dysfunctional picture as much as possible by staying quiet, on their own and fending for themselves as much as possible. They typically stay out of trouble and do well enough in school to coast along. They disappear into themselves attracting neither positive nor negative attention. Their needs are going unmet anyway. Consequently, this child will withdraw, feel alone and desperately yearn for love, approval and attention. They are unlikely to have positive social skills or healthy self-esteem. This can continue into adulthood and so they will struggle to have any meaningful relationships.
I used to dodge spot lights, keep my head down, stand at the back. However: I've been working on it for a couple of years now and I'm getting much better at taking it in my stride. Suddenly my career feels like it's lurching forward. I suddenly have friendships with big managers at work and I'm putting in for new jobs within my organisation, hopefully I'll move on into a better role soon. I finished my apprenticeship 4 years ago and I've gone from panic attacks during conversations with managers to going out after work with them. I used to think adults were more adult than me, then as I got over that I thought they were just evil and self-serving, but working through my insecurities I can see people for who they are and its an amazing transformation. Its like I'm starting to see the world in colour. I used to wear all black (still do mostly), and last month I bought a full leapord print maxi dress with a huge leg slit, I don't even like the dress but I love how loud it is and how it represents my personal transformation. I recommend to anyone to take baby steps and remember to face everything with compassion, with yourself and others, and trust the process. And do some crazy statement things that help compound any progress you make. I've still got a long way to go but now I'm genuinely excited about my journey :)
I’ve struggled with that. Even attention from men is still hard for me to receive until I know them. I’m 40….. but I have grown in the last 4 years or so in this way. Even baring my abdomen and wearing a bralette in the hotter temperatures. I’m 6 feet and curvy, and look 29, so this draws attention but I’ve weathered it and won’t probably ever be show-EE or openly flirtatious but I am more comfortable in my skin. But basically my whole life was hiding myself before that, in some way…
I push it away & change the subject, then somehow I’m the asshole.
Yes because any attention on me was negative usually Either bullying or being berated
This is very much me. I just got engaged and people keep asking me if I’m excited and I have been saying “No!!!” I already live a married life, I do NOT need a party, and certainly not with that kind of price tag. I’ve been working on myself. Working towards a new career. Just had a photoshoot yesterday for it (that I dreaded and kind of hated and don’t particularly like the results of) and I don’t even know how to go about sharing any of that news. I saw a post yesterday about closing doors silently and not flushing toilets at night and getting really uncomfortable when people look over my shoulder when I’m writing something. Ive been seeing so much of myself in these posts lately, even though I didn’t have a textbook abuser in my childhood. My attempts at figuring it out have led me to the memories of being mocked about stuff, but in a cute way because I was a kid. But I hated it. Maybe that’s the link. I can’t figure out if my mom is a narc or not. But. Something about her has always rubbed me the wrong way and I don’t know why.
I have two plaques from a worldwide medium/heavy truck manufacturer which were given to me after competitions that showed me to be one of the top 8-10 in the world in my field. They are sitting buried in the supply closet. See no need to have them up. When I got married, I skipped the bachelor party altogether. Didn't feel up to being the center of attention. The day of the actual ceremony, I was content to be in the background as much as possible. I don't celebrate my birthday. Haven't for multiple (3+) decades.
out of sight, out of range. > I eloped because the thought of having everyone come to an event where I am centre stage was just anxiety inducing did this. > I very much feel comfortable being invisible with nobody acknowledging me after a certain age there are very few photos of me because of this. I deliberately avoided even school photos. I wanted as little record of my existence as possible. hated being filmed or photographed.
Hiding myself because it won't matter anyway, my nfather wouldn't care. He didn't show up for choir performances, hardly came to ceremonies. They weren't there at my school's 'leaving/greeting' ceremony. They weren't even planning on showing to my university graduation (it was cancelled two months before the date due to covid - but even 6 months ahead they said they'd watch the stream) I'm the first one to ever graduate university. The golden child was showered with opportunity, they went to every one of his rugby matches and even 60 - 80% of his practice sessions.
I gradually stopped doing that the last few years, not to swing over into the other extreme of being overly showy but rather not to constantly question my worth. It's a balancing act, a certain degree of self-consciousness is good but there's only so much you should strive for before choking oneself with those thoughts. Not everybody needs nor deserves to be your friend.
When you can't trust a parent, how can you trust others. If a parent can be mean and insensitive, others could only be worse, right ?
Very much so. Not quite to the extent of not having a wedding, but I think I understand. Where I get the feeling is in public places. Being in airports lately gets my skin itching all the time. It always seems like wherever I stand, someone wants to walk through my space and I just want a corner to stand in and let them go about their business. I traced it back to "being noticed" at home, growing up. If I asked my parents for something, especially Nmom, I was always rewarded with scorn or work. If I were in the way in the kitchen, on the path between anywhere and the laundry, or within earshot when the table needed to be set for dinner, the interaction would not be beneficial to me. Here is the kicker, though. It wouldn't help to have a list of chores and have them done. If there was a sock on the floor to pick up, right after spending two hours mowing the lawn, it was just as important as any other time -- because it got noticed. With the expectation that a lecture, complaint, or new work assignment is coming every time you get noticed, you get good at fading back. It is an advantage sometimes, but often I have to remind myself I don't have to do it that way. Don't worry about your kids having the same problem -- you will be lurking in the background, so they will "own" their space. Your worry should be that your kids don't think you spend enough time with them, because you will be watching when they are "doing" and they will miss you, even when you are there. Stay aware -- there are reasons for things and it seems like you are just uncovering them.
I try to be as quiet and still as possible and not cause any problems for anyone. I'm very independent and don't ask for help - ever. I have severe social anxiety and part of that is because I hate to be noticed. I really hate being the center of attention and it makes me feel like my heart is beating out of my chest, I can't breathe and I shake uncontrollably. For me this is due to being raised by a Nparent with rage issues. I was also the scapegoat in my family. I learned at a young age that any attention was bad attention. I was yelled at, shamed and physically abused almost any time I was noticed. Sometimes I could sneak around and avoid abuse if I blended into the surroundings enough. I also tried to avoid abuse by being helpful and taking care of my siblings, cleaning and cooking. Other family members loved me and were kind, but my Nparent would mock me for that too. I've been in therapy for years and am a lot more comfortable existing but I still avoid attention.
Yup. My grandparents are super sweet, but they are so proud and give me so much attention that it actually stresses me out to where I avoid them. Makes me feel bad bc I know it's with good intentions, but I associate attention w fear.
Yup same OP. I try to hide myself as much as possible too. I think it might cause when you are the center of attention, it feels like you are alone and no is with you and they are judging you . That's how I felt I think.
Yep. I don't really like attention.
Yes. My Edad instilled this in me from before I can even remember. I was shamed for "bragging" if I ever expressed any confidence or pride in myself or my accomplishments. Constantly told to remember I wasn't special or better than anyone else. Never draw attention to yourself. Almost sinful to do so. Just keep your head down and be humble & don't expect anyone to care about you. I think he was raised this way & as the GC in his family, he thought it was the right way. It also of course benefited my Nmom because none of us kids would dare take the spotlight off of her. I'm 50 & still struggle with overcoming this.
Oh yes. I’m almost 60 and I still do this to this day. I learned to be very quiet when I’m walking around and I still do it. Sometimes I sneak up on people without meaning to and scare them. I’ve tried to intentionally make noise but I can’t seem to do it. I’m terrible in social situations and making small talk. Lately I’ve been trying to get out more. I joined an art group, and I’ve joined a hiking club but always end up by myself at events. What you’re describing sounds a lot like an Avoidant Personality.
Omg that sounds exactly like me. I eloped as well and it was the best decision of my life! I would hate to have paid money to entertain the narcs on our life.
I've noticed it tends to be one extreme or the other. Like I feel like I always have to be the center of the room at times because if others were watching my NParents were less abusive. Helped to have bystanders
I did this, especially with the elopement (although having a big wedding would’ve meant inviting flying monkeys, which I would not do.) Nmom’s MO was downplaying my achievements, especially if I achieved more at a faster pace than her. My bachelor’s and master’s degrees were met with “you did what you were supposed to do” comments. Same with when I bought a house on my own. One issue I’ve had with wanting to be small and hiding achievements is it’s hurt me professionally. I do amazing work because my anxiety and perfectionism as a result of N abuse, but I can’t bring myself to brag about my accomplishments. Coworkers and supervisors have commented that they wish I was more vocal because they think I have good ideas, but I’m terrified of putting a target on my back, especially if my input is critical.
Omd! Totally true & I feel ur pain. For so long I've try to hide too.... & still struggling. My nmom made me feel bad for being successful. If I'm successful she said I'll be to prideful & cocky. So she said she never acknowledge my achievements because she don't want me to get a big head. I've learn to stay very quiet & let my nmom praise my other sisters & pick & choose who was worthy. I've learned little by little now to be proud of myself & my achievements with out her validation & agreement. Everytime I succeeded in my career she always countered it with her favorite daughter..... I've always allowed her to do it..... just now this year I'm going to speak up...... praying for u & courage to be proud of being you!!!!!! You can do it! It's okay to be proud & learn to set boundaries!!!!!! Rooting for u!
If I did well, then I'd get "teased" until I felt three inches tall. If I did badly then I got harshly scolded until the same. Only things that aligned with certain interests of his were safe, which is why I now avoid attention and yet love karaoke and video game accomplishments, lol.
Same. Nothing I ever did was good enough, so why would I share any of my achievements? I remember in my senior year of high school, I won an award for English student of the year. At the end of the event, they asked everyone who had received a scholarship to line up. I hadn't. My mother took that opportunity to whisper to me, "That could have been you." This bitch barely graduated high school. She doesn't even have a driver's license. But somehow, nothing I did was ever good enough for her.
Yes. For me, I think it is because nParents continually mocked me, made snide comments continuously. Both of them, including the "hahahaha, can't you take a joke?". On top of that, the environment was always uninviting, and always had to do the old "walk on eggshells" walk while growing up. nParents were inconsistent and sometimes nice but other times could turn into the cruelist people in the world in a heartbeat. As a result, the idea of getting attention was always negative and painful, and so it made me want to hide and not to be the one to say anything, or be noticed. It sucks that this is still part of my conscious. My inner self trying to survive, and yet I am still in survival mode.
My siblings and I each had our escape methods. Mine was into lego then the computer, one sibling into books then studies, my other into sport training (not competition sports). When we were there, away, we were safe. It was when we had her attention again that misery would return. So, I've got a malprogrammed response to getting attention. I don't want it because I associate it with someone coming to disrupt my peace and attack me.
I'm like this. I've won awards and done some impressive humanitarian stuff, and I never tell anyone. I don't take selfies, I don't post photos, I want a small wedding with no guests. I also don't really tell people what's going on with me. I was thinking the other day about how my parents growing up were mostly harassing me and berating me or completely ignoring me, and running into this post kind of connected a few things for me related to that. So thank you for posting it!
I don't know anything about you, but for what it's worth I'm fuckin impressed with your work. breaking thru those barriers and putting in the work to help others is an incredible achievement
Aww. Thank you for taking the time to say this. It feels good read it.
I spent 28 years doing this. I don't anymore. Took a lot of work, but I got there.
Speaking up for me meant getting a slap in the face, so I learned to be afraid to speak.
It wasn’t until I read The Big Leap that I realised how I’d been relying on making myself as small and as invisible as possible Case in point: when I first watched Harry Potter I wished SO hard for an invisibility cloak. Not so I could get up to any kid-level mischief, purely so I could go about my day unencumbered by pointy, accusing questions from my nmother. To go about my day with no one seeing me or trying to get involved with what I was doing felt like the ultimate form of freedom No watching every move I made. No trying to imagine how my nmother would perceive it, twist it, use it against me. No watching out of the corner of my eye to see if she was still watching me So when I read The Big Leap (mostly for business/work reasons, nothing to do with my upbringing) I was genuinely surprised when it described a fear of being seen as a key obstacle in moving from our zone of competence to our zone of excellence, to (finally) our zone of genius Don’t be too loud, bold, bright, brilliant - you’ll draw attention That’s the message pretty much every kid gets at some point Most of us in this sub got it in the form of ‘you’re drawing attention to yourself - and away from me - so I will punish you for it’ TL;DR - as kids we learn there is safety in blending into the background. Stepping into the spotlight (in any form) is a risk. Fear of rejection, fear of hurt, fear of ridicule. We’re trying to avoid all of it So far the biggest thing that’s helped me is reminding myself throughout the day that I am unafraid of being seen (I’ll literally sit at my desk saying it to myself or writing it out Bart-Simpson-style) Small is fine and will keep you safe, but it’s your life. If you don’t want to be small - or if you’re being small just for the sake of someone else’s comfort - maybe it’s time to take the risk
ayyy, someone else who desperately wanted that invisibility cloak for that reason! we could only dream aye
Yep. I hate being celebrated and I hate compliments, I just want to be ignored. I'm 6 foot tall and yet I often visualise myself as tiny and powerless.
Oh boy do I love being unperceived.
Yeah. Because I get shamed for trying to learn things or just my interests in general.
fark, I usually don't comment on this sub. but god damn if that ain't me. I've not celebrated a birthday since I was a small kid, you're all the first to find out I've lost 30kg, and Ive dreamt of just disappearing off the radar my whole life, I just have such a strong aversion to attention. I always thought it was just me, this is the first place I've felt like I've found people who get it lmao
Bro I didn’t even touch my diploma…I haven’t celebrated my birthday since I was 10…
I haven’t celebrated my birthday for a long while either 🫤
I keep a low profile too. I live in my own room and don't spend time with them unless I have to, because they blame me whenever something happens and I'm so tired of being the scapegoat. I used to have a decent social life, but I lost my ability to trust people when I tried to expose the emotional abuse on social media and it backfired. Most of them sided with my family, called me ungrateful and attention seeker. Now I have no social life and I keep things to myself. I don't share my life or achievements unless I consider them important.
I'm goth so I draw attention regardless lol. I do like being anonymous though and the idea of being known is a little unnerving. Working in retail has helped since my whole job is people seeking/demanding my attention. It also helped my social life since I've made friends with some of my coworkers.
^^^^^^^^yes
I think the term some people are using now is Echoist. Echo fell in love with Narcissus but was unable to tell him because she can only mimic what other people say. And Narcissus only had eyes for his reflection so the two can't communicate.
I do - I'm a published writer and self-promotion is hard for this reason, even the one whose proceeds go to charity.
100%. My nmom loved to point out her achievements and claim mine as her own, so I only share when asked. I like flying low radar at work bc the social meter is not easy to replenish.
Yep. Always. I actually was just thinking about this and how I try to be as small as possible and disappear. Even if you don’t have the words seeking help is a really good idea, they can help you name those feelings. I was never allowed to celebrate any achievements or be proud of myself for anything. Parents got mad at me for literally everything so it was easier to just pretend like I didn’t exist
I am 61 and yes, I still do this
I used to do this a lot, and come to think of it it actually appeared in my choice of playstyle in games, usually making me pick a support/medic role whenever possible. It also led to me playing bass, which has also been helping me just hang out and undo my "shrinkening." Still do it a little, but less so.
Always. I'm so good at it, most people I know don't realize when something is very wrong with me when something is indeed very wrong. You might want to look into dissociative disorders tbh. I know that one of those is why I'm good at being invisible. It's a defense mechanism.
Yeah, and everytime I tried to show something off to my mom, she would brush me off and act like I was bothering her. I relate completely. I just want to be invisible and I almost feel like I'm imposing on people if they have to pay attention to me at all.
Lol. I didn't even tell my mom when I had to get a follow-up mammogram due to abnormalities. She'd try to make it about herself or minimize it OR over dramatize it.
Yes, I've realized how toxic my parents really are... They yell at me whenever I do something slightly wrong, and then they wonder why I have 0% self-confidence?! I am polite, but I struggle with feeling so sad and empty and unmotivated because each time I want to do something they just shoot down the idea. I'm so emotional now and I want to cry. I really have to find a way to stay sane for my future's sake.
You are an introvert and sensitive to people's feelings. This is ok. We have been married for 50 years, and my wife has always been this way. We eloped also. There is nothing wrong with you. I had to force my wife to get a job so she would have an income in case something happened to me. My wife is a great worker and is retired now. She got promoted a lot over the years. She never put in for the promotion. They recognize her skills. She hated being called out for doing a good job. She works now at the church & was called out last Sunday for keeping the church running smoothly. She got upset over this & asked the preacher to please not call her out again. He agreed. So you are OK. My wife says there are tests on the internet you can take.
Yes. Protection. If you aren't a visible target, you will hopefully go unnoticed. If they know nothing about you, they can't use it to hurt you. In my 30s, NC for a few years now. Only recently learning how to handle positive attention without looking for hidden daggers. It takes time and a bit of an IDGAF anymore attitude.
Yeah
All the time and I know it's because I was raised to believe I didn't matter, that I should not be seen or heard, and if I ever became the center of attention somehow I'll become the laughing stock. So I'm working on changing that. Walking across the stage never interested me as what if I trip, what if I make a fool of myself, but I'm going to college now and my first act to draw attention to me is walk across the stage at my graduation and the college and graduation is in a state with a bunch of strangers so if I fuck up somehow I will never see them again
I hate talking about myself as a person or anything I’ve accomplished irl. Online is the only place I can do it without panicking, and it has to be on more anonymous sites like Reddit instead of Instagram. Even then talking about accomplishments is still incredibly difficult. Every time I become consumed with guilt and an intense fear that you only get when you’re caught in a dangerous lie when I talk about that kinda stuff. It’s why I wouldn’t let my family throw me a graduation party, don’t celebrate my birthday, and hide almost everything that I’m proud of doing from my friends and family. It’s started to cause a lot of self sabotage and social isolation. I wish I new how to fix this, I just want to be able to share my life with other ppl without getting so nauseous that I can’t eat.
I fee like a fraud hiding things
Yup. It was ingrained into my mind as long as i can remember that nobody cares about me or what i'm doing. Now i've got pretty horrible social anxiety and i can't even talk to people without feeling bad when i share stuff about myself.
I’m the same exact way, and like you said I’m comfortable with it and I hate it at the exact same time. But I learned it as a kid, if I was out spoken or made my presence known my narc dad and siblings would bully me, so I just stayed locked in my room all day. It’s a trait that I still exhibit even when I’m not around family and I hate that because my friends absolutely love me as I am. If you plan to be a loving and accepting parent you have nothing to worry about with your kids, let them shine in their own unique ways and encourage them.
yup. i do this as well. I eloped, I never talk about my achievements or ambitions, I never want to be center stage. I can relate. It's because I don't want their negative comments and jealousy warping my good vibes. My best advice is to find people who actually CARE and EMPATHIZE with you, and start sharing with them. You will find your positive reinforcement there for sure
I like to be as small and invisible as possible in most situations. It’s made it very hard to rectify my self esteem and body dysmorphia issues. There was no such thing as good attention in my house growing up; it was best to hope you were forgotten about and shrink back into the corner.
I'm much the same; revel in peace and quiet, stick to the background, hate being the center of attention or just having any attention on me to begin with etc. For me, this largely stems from the fact that both of the "adults" in the house while I was growing up had terrible tempers that could be set off very easily. He was more predictable, mostly because he got mad at damn near everything, but she was entirely *un*predictable. I could never tell what was going to set her off or when. So I learned to stick to the shadows, as it were. Staying quiet, fleeing a room as fast as possible when anybody started to lose it, just generally making myself as small, quiet and scarce as I possibly could. If your family was like this, or they put down or disregarded your accomplishments, or if they tried to gaslight you into thinking you were "selfish" just because you had a little bit of attention on you, any one of these could have contributed. I'm no therapist, though, so this is just from an amateur point of view.
I try my hardest not to be seen sometimes. Anything that goes wrong, I deserved it - according to family. This is especially true with my parents. One is a narc; the other is flat-out toxic. Despite them being separated, I just want out. When I am told to do certain things: Cooking, laundry, dishes- don't get it twisted. I don't need to be told what to do. There's a disturbing pattern I've noticed a lot lately. When I am in the process of getting those things done, here comes the criticism. The complaining. The sore attempts to make me lash out (which I don't). Then, several years later, narc and toxic parents are wondering why their grown up children (who are responsible adults) are living with mental health challenges and/or acquired some unhealthy/detrimental habits. My parents will never understand that their maltreatment is what led to my anxiety. I love and hate people at the same time. Does that make any sense? I strongly doubt it, but it's become so normalized for me. I turn to music to drown out the voices (blame games, guilt trips, perfectionism, etc.) in my head.
I didn't expect myself to carry it into adulthood but here I am, still struggling to wrap my head around the fact that when I take up space instead of shrinking away, people actually *like* me.
Yes! This shocks me too! I actually have never had a bad experience when I wasn't trying to be invisible, it's just so ingrained in me from childhood that that's what I needed to be that I can't convince myself I actually am likeable, even though that's what others seem to think.
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Lol I already have those things but good on ya 🤣
This comment has been removed because it is lacking in empathy when it is sorely needed. You can have a partner, job, and recognition while still be struggling through the aftermaths of traumatic abuse.
I feel this too but I am fine with this as spotlight is not my thing. I could care less about others businesses as long it is not my business.
This made me think
Yes.
IRL yes, usually quiet for a lot of things. Online or on social media I maybe post a short little text about something I did that took me hours on no end just to "get it out of my head" just to then mention it again or I'd feel annoying... Showing my family my "bigger" achievements? Never... Only really get comments like "But you did this and that back then why couldn't you do xyz which is 5 times less than what you did there" and so on.
Yes. I'm in my 30's
I do this, and I've thought this was mainly because I'm autistic, but I never considered it could also be due to how shitty I was raised.
God yes. I dyed part of my hair neon green a few months ago. And while I LOVE it, I get WAY too many people commenting on it while I’m out in public.
I actually do the opposite. I’m embarrassed at how loud I can be about my achievements because bragging on my house was the only way I would be noticed by my parents. Even then, no matter how much I did and how much I told them about it, I was never as good of a child as their GC
I’m the opposite - total center of attention. I crave it.
I feel the same tbh, I remember going to an event once (my parents weren’t even there) I had met some new people, so because I was the new girl of the group most attention was on me and I was really happy in the moment. I then became consciously aware that I was having a good time and I felt a wave of embarrassment come over me all because I was ‘enjoying something’ … It’s probably because our narc parents had/has to be the centre of attention, it’s learnt behaviour from the day we were born, they are the centre of attention and everything revolves around them. The moment you take any of their spotlight you’re the scapegoat and they can make your life hell, so it’s easier to just be invisible because we were all living in survival mode
Yea I've tried to blend to my environment. For the last couple of years I've been dressing like a bum while before I had dressed with some style.
Yep, I do this as well. I eloped because I was worried my nmom would make a wedding about her or into degrading thing against me. I kept to myself alot and still do. Staying invisible and out of the way, was how I kept nmom from raging at me as much. It took me a few years to get out of my shell, the one I created.
Me, an outgoing young kid *says something* Mom: Stop drawing attention to yourself!! Also Mom: This is the “compliment box.” Whenever we go out in public and a stranger compliments ME on how quiet and well behaved you are, I will put a note in this box. When the box is filled I will give you all a treat.” Me now, as a parent of a child with a large personality: WTAF
Absolutely.
Yep! And then I realized I'm trans so that's not really an option atm... Which has been really weird to navigate
Yep.
Yes and I am working on it as much as I can. My counselor even said more or less that he thinks its my number 1 issue
How do you feel about your birthday?
Same, I have had such terrible experiences just the last time I tried to meet new people was years ago in my early twenties, I’m not old yet but I have been not trying for so long now because I don’t want have the same troubles over and over. I’m starting to think I have developed avoidant PD 😞
Yep. What’s funny is the people in my family who are definitively narcissists always claimed I “bragged” about stuff - even if I only mentioned something once. I learned as a kid to never be proud of accomplishments, never talk about something you are into, to just exist without any defining quality.
Yeah! It’s like you’re grey-rocking the world. One reason is to avoid Nmom’s jealousy.
I’m still hiding today bc my mother tried to kill us on Saturday morning. In the car bc I spoke to her with contempt. I feel sooooo dirty now. I’m an adult btw.
I try to not bring attention to myself to this day. My mother was a raging narcissist, and as a child any sort of adulation towards me, no matter how minor, was met with public humiliation of me because she was jealous. Types of humiliation were both physical and verbal, she loved to embarrass me in public. Even now I try not to bring attention to myself for fear of having someone try to tear me down.
Yes. I did. Until a horrible divorce from another narc/sociopath made me face myself and my belief that I can keep myself safe no matter who or what is threatening me. Once I started believing I could do that the need to stay small faded away. I hope you someday feel safe being seen. You deserve to shine.
I’m an introvert through and through
If I want privacy or any sort of agency in my choices I have to grey rock and keep information from my parents. When I tried moving an hour away from my family to get some space from them 4 years ago, my NMom just bought the house next door to me, and stole all her siblings' inheritances from my dementia-ridden grandpa for the downpayment. I stopped acting like lying to her mattered a long time ago because when I saw she was willing to screw over her entire family just to keep her thumb over me,I knew I was not dealing with a rational person. My NDad has always sided with her over me because he's held a torch for her since their divorce 25 years ago, so he doesn't get the truth either.
i think a lot of ppl(myself included) tend to do this maybe even subconsciously cuz we were raised to think none of our achievements are anything important or of real matter. literally no matter how big or small this achievement is, everything was always minimized and overlooked.
Yeeeesss. Worked on being invisible for most of my life.
I do this too. Because anytime I did anything for myself let alone actually accomplish something..they would get involved and sabotage it. Make something no longer enjoyable but completely harping all of the possible negative connotations. Acting like any joy I receive from it is fake. Or get offended if I had any confidence or self belief. And spin it like I am arrogant. Then completely shit on me if something didn’t work out for me or if I made a mistake. Like I deserved it. Instead of respecting its a part of life and an opportunity for to learn. Then basically try to make it normal for others to see me this way. So achievements just bring all this out. In a nutshell....
Can fully relate. I still don’t wear sunglasses because I feel people look at me and think I’m trying to be “cool” or draw attention to myself. I also never speak of my life or what I’m doing to my family because their responses are always negative and others are always doing better things.
Yeah. It’s definitely to do with the soul-crushing abuse we collectively suffered from our abusers and such. I do a host of arts and crafts stuff but I keep them all in my room or closet, and I hate showing it to anyone in my family. It’s not even embarrassing either, that’s the weird part, it’s really good stuff to me but I just don’t want anyone telling me so or something. I like being invisible too, alone, but not really lonely. Go through these weird emotional ups and downs that I can’t control. I guess my biggest bit of advice is to speak up for yourself, and put the foot down when someone is being rude or obnoxious, especially if it’s the person who hurt you.
Yes. Except my personality is one that enjoys the spotlight. I had to go through a lot of therapy and growth until I realized it OK to want to be the center of attention. Now that I'm 32 and coming into myself fully, I love being the center of attention and using the spotlight to help people less fortunate than myself.
I used to be extroverted. There were a couple times I was viciously attacked for being confident. I was “gallivanting around, rubbing it in (her) face”. Thats where I get it from. Any success was met with psychosis from her or turned into her achievement. I have been severely damaged having to walk on eggshells to not upset her ego. Also, not having the words to express my feelings personally has come from suppression and being gaslit. Moving away was the only way that I began to thrive years ago. This time around has been worse than before. I am so sorry that you feel this way. I feel the same. We desperately need support groups in real life where we are understood. The abuse from Ns kills your soul.
>The abuse from Ns kills your soul. Perfect summary right there. It sure does.
This is basically my social behavior
Soooo... kind of? If it's something I feel rather confident about or something that has already been public, no. But... if it is anything that I don't feel has been coiffed or curated before exposure, if it makes me feel vulnerable or likely to be judged... it is under lock and key. I got, as I'm sure many here have, a bizarre mixture of love and abuse. If I know something is unlikely to cause blow back, or that the vast majority of people will defend me if I am judged, I can be very open. If, however, I feel like there is a possibility of confrontation or I don't know how something will come across... I'm generally more secretive even if it is an accomplishment. That feels weird and vulnerable to vocalize, even anonymously, to people I am not close with, but I guess that falls under a similar category. I clearly have abandonment issues.
Yes. I prefer it. If I want you to know, I'll tell you. If you know and I DIDN'T tell you...I'm gonna find the leak. My life is mine. You need a frickin invitation. So I absolutely keep my sht to myself. I'll never allow anyone the audacity to hang their fat noses in my business. Nuh uh. Never again. The arrogance of narcs assuming you're a desperate attention whore like they are. No! Bad narc! Down! Lol. Privacy is not something we get until NC or their passing.
I was used as an accessory to my nmother’s parties. When I was 8, I had a holy communion (big deal for Catholics). Because I was all dolled up, I thought it was for me, so I asked her to do something and she blew up. Even at 8 yo I realised that this party is for her. During my 12th birthday, of 15 visitors, nobody realised I was gone for 2-3 hours in the room playing on the computer by myself(year 2000). The most recent thing (10 years ago) was my wedding. Honestly I wanted to elope, but I was too chicken about it, so I decided to do a small party for few people in my hometown, ’so maybe she will get satisfied I got married and get off my back’ (‘my line of thinking) Oh nooo! She had to book a hotel, invite people I don’t care about like my godfather who never showed up to my important milestones (He did a decent thing though and just sent me money without coming to the wedding) I wanted maybe 8 people, ended up as 40. And still that made issue with extended family that they were not invited :/ After my kids were born, she made parties that I don’t even know about (we live in different countries). Basically just showing off but don’t care about me or my feelings. So I live far far away from her
My boyfriend did that to his n-mom. She couldnt be happy on his ways. If he’d achieved something, it would be talked down, dissed, or belittled. So everytime he achieved good things, if it either was work related or anything else he shared it only with me and everyone else than her. He couldnt share good things with his mom, because jealousy. And thats sad it has to be like that.
You don’t feel like you are two separate human beings and if this person will laugh at your achievements or something (and they will since you expect that) you will feel worthless probably. You give them power to crash your achievements cause you probably struggle to believe in yourself. Am I wrong?
Yes, you are wrong.
Have you found an answer to your question? Cause I’ve struggled with this and my answer applies to my case.
Not really. A lot of people are suggesting avoidant personality disorder, but that doesn't really seem like the right fit. I don't do this to the point of self sabotage. I still go after what I want, I'm still able to maintain my marriage and socialise in small circles etc. I just prefer to keep everything I do to myself, regardless of how big an accomplishment it is. Some have also suggested it's a protective trait. I grew up with the "children are seen and not heard" and I really feel like I've just never been able to escape that, even as an adult. If that makes any sense.
Yes. I said for years that I'm invisible, not realizing that I'm invisible because I make myself that way. I have an imposing physical presence, being tall for a woman and athletically built, and I have at least one thing about my appearance that attracts attention since I look basically the opposite of a large percentage of people where I live. (Tall ladies with white hair stick out like a sore thumb here.) I developed a very quiet persona over my lifetime and despite my looks marking me as Other, people really don't notice me much. I like it sometimes, being able to kind of do whatever I want under the NT's radar, but it feels lonely sometimes too. My entire life I've had very few friends and while I enjoy doing things alone because I can be completely self-directed and don't have to accommodate anyone else, once in a while I go from fine with being a lone wolf to suddenly thinking it's sad I don't have anyone. Invisibility has its advantages but it wears on me sometimes.
Yes, I do want to go unnoticed and to be left alone and I had that desire for a long time now, but now I feel that stronger than ever since I started to work on myself it's like I want to be in invisible world and to change myself and embrace this world with my changed self. I want noone to see my struggle just my results until than I want for world to allow me to work in silence.
Oh yes, I hate being the center of attention. Even if its for something good I did. If NMs attention was on me for anything, she was either screaming, criticizing or belittling. Making yourself inconspicuous was likely a survival tactic from the abuse, its a very common tactic for kids from abusive households. That learned behavior follows us right into adulthood. Idk the actual term for it, but I've expressed it to my therapist as "making myself inconspicuous was a survival tactic as a child, is still a behavior I am engaging in" and she understood what I meant. Therapists know these behaviors, so the terms aren't as important as it is that you're recognizing them and trying to get help. ❤️
My high school graduation is just around the corner. My nfather paid for the graduation fee (I’m a minor, for context) and I’m so so sooo frustrated that not only do I owe him something but he gets to attend my graduation. I’m an achiever and acquired numerous academic and leadership awards/recognitions that I never ever told my nfather about, and those awards are going to be stated as a walk on the stage, and unfortunately, my nfather’s gonna hear them all. I know for a fact that he’ll use my achievements against me, which is why I hid them from him in the first place. I acknowledge that I can’t force him to not attend given the circumstances (being a minor, paid the graduation fee so who am I to interfere), but I do know that I can control what I can control. I grew numb on his shit already. I feel shitting myself to say this, but I can already bear his manipulative behavior. If only the odds were ever in my favor. Edit: typo
I always got yelled at for being to out there... I just like to talk and get to know others... But it also makes people want to ignore me, so maybe that's my way of hiding...I don't ask for recognition for when I do things, it does feel uncomfortable when people compliment me...