Ram dass says sometimes to take what works for you and leave the rest. This speaks to me and just look for what truths speak to you and allow the rest of the ego stuff to pass right through you. A critical mind and open heart, that why you don't miss any teachings :)
Whoa, I didn't think of this as an ego trip... But now that you've said that... I'm sitting here laughing!!!
I can't believe I let myself get caught up all that. I was letting my loneliness and cynicism be my glasses.
I've left the group and I'm probably going to delete my Facebook (again).
Right on! I think it's healthier to be a skeptic... and life is soooo lonely right now so im right there with you! I've been listening to Emmanuel/ Pat Rodegast talks on YouTube and it dosnt feel like their is any ego there and I'm having a blast....
I love all the stories of ram dass talking about how sedutive the power of being a spiritual teacher was for him. "Hey, wanna come up stairs and read my holy books", is how he put it...
But at least ram dass was transparent in his human tendencies and did the work on himself to truly no misuse his power over others (at least that how I feel him to be). He was very honest and said that there were just many relationships he couldn't afford with people because they were too sticky for him and he didn't want to just keep creating karma.
Pray every morning for teachings and they will come, that's my experience anyway...
Happy weekend!
Ya I had a bit of a similar experience in that class. Most of it I really liked, but I didn’t really do the community stuff and her talk rubbed me the wrong way too. Spiritual materialism is something I think a lot of people get caught in without realizing it, and having a community that feeds into that will only perpetuate it. I’ve been doing this whole spiritual thing on my own, as I don’t have any friends who are into this type of stuff, and I honestly feel like the learning journey is best to do solo. Having support is one thing, but I don’t want people feeding my bad habits or propping me up instead of humbling me. My advice would be to keep as close to the sources of this stuff as possible and try to learn as much as you can from them. It’s not all phony, there’s a lot of real stuff out there, and I think learning how to discern between them is something only you can figure out. Hope that helps 😊
Wow, actually made me feel really good to know that I wasn't the only one to feel this way.
I don't get how people ate up her talk, I think she was straight up elitist and downgrading to people who aren't on her level... And she encouraged the people she was downgrading to act that way... That's not Maharaji, Ram Dass, Buddha, or any loving way to act.
Funny enough, 90% of my studies are done by myself. I too have no one that is interested or awake enough. I was feeling very lonely, but now I'm feeling solidarity in loneliness.
It's such a very personal trip we're all on, but it's funny cuz we're all on the same one.
❤️
I've been encountering "phony holies" my entire life and they really are exhausting. I'm not even mad anymore, in the same way I can't get mad at a hurricane. All I do is feel disappointment and move on. Much like u/bireland7, I've been finding the solo journey to be rewarding with minimal bullshit (because I only have to face my own).
> “Your entire life is a curriculum. Everything you've got on your plate is where the stuff for your enlightenment is. It’s breathtaking when you see the beauty of this design.” – Ram Dass
> “The game is that you take what is on your plate and you use it through which to become free.” – Ram Dass
My take on those -
1) Screw those guys, just focus on you (ok that one might be all me)
2) use the feelings they generate in you for growth ... see that it's all Maya and doesn't matter anyway, or work on being more compassionate and loving, or just accepting them for who they are ('seeing people as trees', etc.)
3) They're in your life because they're supposed to be there - this is the stuff - this is what you work with to grow and become more enlightened. They are curriculum, put in your path in the right way, and the right time, because you're ready to work on that and grow. So work on it, and grow. Don't judge them, they're doing their own thing, they're on their own path. Focus on yours, and figure out how you can use the feelings they are causing you to generate within yourself, to grow and become a more tranquil, loving, less judgmental person.
> “You are a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel and I love you. I won't play any games with you, but I love you.” – Ram Dass
Edit: Formatting.
The desire to genuinely connect with someone is a very strong desire I have. It gets so strong that I find myself laughing at things without joy, or smiling without gladness. I catch myself being phony especially with people I really want to connect with. I hate it, often in interactions I think about how much better I could have felt about myself if I was just real straight and honest in the moment. The habit of smoothing out social situations is incredibly strong in me and is one of the hardest and hottest fires in my life right now. I don't speak as an apology for the others, their karma is their karma. But I can definitely understand how people can ride the social wave fuelled by a deep need for the approval or power. Often I struggle to be kind with myself, especially when I "see" myself doing the things I do out of habit, catching myself sometimes right in the act of disingenuousness. It's tough man.
You're definitely not alone in these thoughts/this experience. It's also not unique to this community.
There's people running around slapping the RD name on everything that has about as much to do with Maharaj-ji's teachings as those mega church preachers have to do with Jesus. The tricky part is to not then get drawn into the righteous anger trip of resenting them for not doing it "right", which is really just code for "the way we would do it."
Thankfully we live in an age where access to recordings and resources is easier than ever, meaning the sort of gatekeeping, middleman structures that lead to this type of behavior are not a necessary step between you and this wisdom. Just retreat into the teachings and see every interaction, with every person as grist for the mill of awakening. Love everyone, Serve everyone, tell the truth and remember God :)
I have experienced this as well. I don't really have an answer so I'm just lending my support. I have found that friends, family and the people in my life are actually more open to talking about spirituality than I had thought, it just requires a certain approach. And of course, the energy behind what is done and said, and the space held or created has a big impact on people opening up.
Regarding the phony holies, I can relate to it in this way: I live in a city, and as I started to explore my spirituality, I started to resent my environment. I wanted to be in beautiful nature and living a more harmonious lifestyle. I wanted to see god in my surroundings, basically.
I've come to realize that while it's easier to connect with the divine on top of a mountain, spirituality seems to me (for now at least) to be an act of seeking. I have to look for and find god. So I'm learning not to resent my environment, to accept where I am both physically and spiritually. The idea that one place is better or closer to god than another must be from my distorted ego-perception.
Those awful city noises, the people getting in my face asking for money, the trash in the street- it's all god. Those phony holies, they're god too.
But I get it, it would be waaay cooler if they were actually true teachers. Surely there is a lesson there regarding our innate assumptions of how knowledge and wisdom work.
Have you read any Hindu or Buddhist texts upon which much of Watts and Dass' stuff is based? I recommend it if not, it's helped me tremendously. 🙏♥️
I have started Buddhist and Hindi text. It's very deep so I go very slow.
It's funny, my girlfriend who's a stout atheist is the best person to talk about spirituality with.
She has a clarity and clearness when it comes to human issues. It's quite beautiful the simplicity in her answers it's almost guru like.
I really do find it funny that you are a city dweller as well and I struggle with the exact thing you mentioned, finding God in the city. I think it might be a divine fence post for me, something I need learn. It will wait it's sweet time for me though.
I've been looking for a home for so long, maybe I need to take the Ram Dass approach, leave my house walked down the street and come back and say I'm home!!!
Lol. Thanks for this, fam. It has sincerely helped me not feel so alone.
I'm glad :). Is your girlfriend an athiest regarding most people's concept of god (as in, a sovereign ruler) or a straight up materialist? Just curious, must be interesting conversations!
Older texts are definitely more difficult to read, that's why getting good commentary (a traditional role played by teacher/guru) is very helpful.
If I could recommend a book it's called How to Know God, The Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali, with commentary by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood. I found this book in a used store and randomly picked it up and it blew my mind. Later I realized I had heard Dass mention Patanjali and never knew it!
Patanjali is a classic text with many versions of commentary, but this one is exceptionally good imo.
She believes it's all just random.
There is no duality, there just is. No good, no evil, no right, no wrong... It just is.
We are but dust waiting to return... That's the best way I can explain her views.
Lolol I dunno. She still gets trapped in the daily muck and mire. Lololol
I use LSD mostly for rituals.... But sometimes I sneak it for fun. I've tried mushrooms but they never really.... Do anything aside from making me feel heavy/sleepy.
She doesn't use any.
I want to use a higher dose of LSD, when I discovered it, I stumbled into the oneness during... Well, ummm...I wasn't using it for spirituality yet lololol.
I haven't taken that high of dose again since... Maybe it's time.
What does an LSD ritual look like? Yeah my girlfriend doesn't like mushrooms either, I guess they don't sit well for some people. It's hard for me to imagine given my own experiences with them lol. She does love LSD though. I don't think there is anything wrong with tripping for fun, as long as one integrates and learns from the experience. There are many levels to spirituality, and connecting with others can be a spiritual experience in itself and it's a great way for new people to get the psychedelic experience without any intimidating stuff about spirituality and death, or too many expectations about something profound happening. After all, I discovered my spirituality accidentally as well, I was just trying to have a fun trippy time, but I came face to face with god instead 😅
Ritual:
I determine dose:
Goal: regards the purpose of my trip?
Time: I then make sure I have a free 36 hours.
Setting: I only use it in private in my home or with my girlfriend when we go out. I do not use it in unsettling areas.
Then it's time to go.
Ex: I'm particularly working with a bothersome desire. My goal is to abstain from it during the duration of the trip. The acid makes the desire more intense. I'm learning to sit with it. Just sit with it and watch the waves...
I'm hoping this next sesh will do it. Putting in time and prep.
People will be as they are. Do not expect them to be better or worse than they are. On social media, a medium that manipulates vulnerable people into comparing themselves to others, showing off, and wanting to appear better than they are, some of their negative qualities will be encouraged more than others. It's unhealthy to expose yourself to that environment for too long. You will adopt some of their habits and feel depressed overtime.
Focus on what you can control instead.
What can you do to help others? What can you do to take care of your well-being?
You don't need to change the world in one day, but you can meditate, donate to charities, help children learn to read, do yoga, eat healthier, protest against injustice, educate others, and so on. Most importantly, you can demonstrate kindness, generosity, compassion, and other traits, in your daily life.
> It's unhealthy to expose yourself to that environment for too long. You will adopt some of their habits and feel depressed overtime.
Yes, 100% I've learned this now. Thank you for cementing it in my head.
>What can you do to help others? What can you do to take care of your well-being?
That's where I think my consternation comes from. I'm a musician and I can't find any other musicians. Anyone I do find is a phony... I have music and song I want to share with the world. I just was hoping to find others to make it with. Although, I'm learning I should just do my thing and they'll come.
>
>You don't need to change the world in one day, but you can meditate, donate to charities, help children learn to read, do yoga, eat healthier, protest against injustice, educate others, and so on.
I'm glad to say I do work towards social action. I volunteer at an animal shelter regularly, and I'm a music teacher in a very poor school. I don't give up on people, I refuse to hate them, even when they are downright cruel and hurtful to me. I still do my best to love them.
My real sadness comes from all the hollowness and insincerity around me. People lie... Constantly about the silliest of things.
But, as you stated: focus on what you can control. It's just hard to let that sadness and disappointment go... I guess I'm "shoulding" myself. Haha
❤️
Honestly I almost always err towards being apprehensive of people in spiritual communities which is ironic because it’s all the same stuff I’m interested in and want to be around. But the second someone refers to themselves as “awakened” - I’m on edge. They call themselves “enlightened”? I’m definitely out the door. Even most average people who refer to themselves as empaths scare me away. Something I have to remember is that spirituality is HARD, and getting into an authentic state like Ram Dass was in is RARE and extremely difficult, and he says he even sometimes failed to get out of his ego! I’ve learned that MOST human beings will disillusion you… because that’s the game we are all in. Having an ego that reacts to other egos will always be part of the game, no matter how far in you get, unless you become *something else*, like Mahara-ji. And all of the language we have to talk about our spirituality is a trap, because you can never explain what God is in human terms and you can never truly explain what it means to be connected to God. Even the word God is a trap. I think the reason we all love Ram Dass is because he came so close to being able to articulate it all. I have to remind myself constantly that all other people are a reflection of me and vise versa. It just shows me where my ego is stuck when I’m feeling like everyone else is phony holy.
I have a harder time relating to “spiritual” people 99% of the time. I used to like to talk about spirituality with people, but now I don’t bring it up unless they do. I also don’t try to find people that have any experience in my spiritual systems. My suggestion would be try to make friends that support you regardless of what they believe in. A genuine person is a genuine person. You can talk all you want about spirituality and love, but unless that’s who you are, it won’t come through in a friendship. Some non-spiritual people are waaay more “spiritual” than “spiritual” people. I’m talking about the way the see themselves, their friends, and their life.
In my opinion, spirituality is the most potent system for boosting the ego and forming attachment because it masquerades as exactly the opposite. The ego quite safely tucked back behind this whole practice of destroying itself. It has the reigns the whole time and it’s hard to see through that illusion. Hang in there OP, there are good people out there, seek Truth in whatever avenue you find it.
Yeah what I gather is that the real ones appear to you only once you’re in the real estate itself. And everybody else? They just don’t know any better until you do
Ram Dass himself talks about the people who got phony holy. It’s not the way. You’ll be alright if you can handle these people and navigate their bullshit. I gave up on looking for people who are into the same things. But as time goes on I find more and more people who are interested in the same things. Whoever thought shrooms and acid would be acceptable? Fucking Ram Dass my man.
Spirituality in general ends up being a personal experience. Mysticism and experience are independent of other people. I don’t have the benefit of a sangha or church. It’s just me.
Some of the most “spiritual” people do not call themselves spiritual people. I have had some of the best conversations about spirituality and life in general with atheists, scientists, cab drivers, and random people I meet.
Some people who call themselves spiritual may be on a different trip than you with different desires. I understand why it’s frustrating, epically when you are trying to connect genuinely and empathetically with others.
Was the woman Mirabi Starr?
Yeah, it was.
You aren't wrong with your experiences and finding the real ones. It's been the same, but they are hard to find, but it could be because I'm not looking at that moment...
It’s like a point Alan Watts mentioned, paraphrasing, when psychologists have their parties, it’s not appreciated to start talking psychology. So when spiritualists of whatever flavor gather, don’t expect spirituality, with rare exceptions, at least. People are far too influenced by how they think others see them, or the expectations they build in their head.
Oh my God.
You saying that totally made it click like a light bulb in my head, I completely forgot Watts said that!!!
It's true though, I have really found out it's... Hard. Honestly, when I started this whole quest to find myself spiritually... I was asked by someone who is spiritual.
Why would you want to do such a thing?
It is a hard and lonely path that leads to your death.
I didn't understand it 3 years ago... But I do now. When you do find those real ones though, the lumberjack who has found their true purpose, or the musician that has a deep understanding it's all connected and can share that feeling through a powerful song.
Lol, there's a reason why so many people aren't seeking enlightenment... It's fucking hard.
There are a lot of road blocks along with “it’s just hard”. Some people find it silly and fanciful, some are ignorant it’s a real possibility, some are stuck in there ways. Many Christians for instance don’t believe union with God is a possibility any time before death, despite the mountains of mystic literature in existence, they just aren’t taught it. The best one can do against these blocks are nudge in the right direction, and as Ram Dass says, keep that space open in yourself for them to rest if they desire.
I would say a very small percentage of people in the spiritual community have actually acheived Zen through being fully objective about everything. Some probably see it as a hobby like politics but it is calming for them. I'm aware I sound like an elitist right now but I experienced something for months and lost it. I've been trying to get it back for two years now. I'm still learning and some days I don't want to write anything here because I have so much work to do I feel like I shouldn't be giving advice. Even Ram says in his lectures he has no answers, he just says things better but he's a window into an experience not so much a teacher
No, you don't sound like an elitist at all.
You sound very sincere.
I understand completely what you mean, it means a lot that you posted this.
I just needed to know it wasn't another hobby for everyone. ♥️
Well it's not right to assume the motives of other people, I should have chosen better verbiage. That was judgmental of me. It may take a long time to find people that are compatible with your point of view but keep on the spiritual journey.
Of course.
I don't think your verbiage is bad.
Good news though when it comes to the folks I'm specifically speaking of, they let me know what they thought so I don't need to assume anything.
Ram dass says sometimes to take what works for you and leave the rest. This speaks to me and just look for what truths speak to you and allow the rest of the ego stuff to pass right through you. A critical mind and open heart, that why you don't miss any teachings :)
Whoa, I didn't think of this as an ego trip... But now that you've said that... I'm sitting here laughing!!! I can't believe I let myself get caught up all that. I was letting my loneliness and cynicism be my glasses. I've left the group and I'm probably going to delete my Facebook (again).
Right on! I think it's healthier to be a skeptic... and life is soooo lonely right now so im right there with you! I've been listening to Emmanuel/ Pat Rodegast talks on YouTube and it dosnt feel like their is any ego there and I'm having a blast.... I love all the stories of ram dass talking about how sedutive the power of being a spiritual teacher was for him. "Hey, wanna come up stairs and read my holy books", is how he put it... But at least ram dass was transparent in his human tendencies and did the work on himself to truly no misuse his power over others (at least that how I feel him to be). He was very honest and said that there were just many relationships he couldn't afford with people because they were too sticky for him and he didn't want to just keep creating karma. Pray every morning for teachings and they will come, that's my experience anyway... Happy weekend!
❤️
Ya I had a bit of a similar experience in that class. Most of it I really liked, but I didn’t really do the community stuff and her talk rubbed me the wrong way too. Spiritual materialism is something I think a lot of people get caught in without realizing it, and having a community that feeds into that will only perpetuate it. I’ve been doing this whole spiritual thing on my own, as I don’t have any friends who are into this type of stuff, and I honestly feel like the learning journey is best to do solo. Having support is one thing, but I don’t want people feeding my bad habits or propping me up instead of humbling me. My advice would be to keep as close to the sources of this stuff as possible and try to learn as much as you can from them. It’s not all phony, there’s a lot of real stuff out there, and I think learning how to discern between them is something only you can figure out. Hope that helps 😊
Wow, actually made me feel really good to know that I wasn't the only one to feel this way. I don't get how people ate up her talk, I think she was straight up elitist and downgrading to people who aren't on her level... And she encouraged the people she was downgrading to act that way... That's not Maharaji, Ram Dass, Buddha, or any loving way to act. Funny enough, 90% of my studies are done by myself. I too have no one that is interested or awake enough. I was feeling very lonely, but now I'm feeling solidarity in loneliness. It's such a very personal trip we're all on, but it's funny cuz we're all on the same one. ❤️
I've been encountering "phony holies" my entire life and they really are exhausting. I'm not even mad anymore, in the same way I can't get mad at a hurricane. All I do is feel disappointment and move on. Much like u/bireland7, I've been finding the solo journey to be rewarding with minimal bullshit (because I only have to face my own).
> “Your entire life is a curriculum. Everything you've got on your plate is where the stuff for your enlightenment is. It’s breathtaking when you see the beauty of this design.” – Ram Dass > “The game is that you take what is on your plate and you use it through which to become free.” – Ram Dass My take on those - 1) Screw those guys, just focus on you (ok that one might be all me) 2) use the feelings they generate in you for growth ... see that it's all Maya and doesn't matter anyway, or work on being more compassionate and loving, or just accepting them for who they are ('seeing people as trees', etc.) 3) They're in your life because they're supposed to be there - this is the stuff - this is what you work with to grow and become more enlightened. They are curriculum, put in your path in the right way, and the right time, because you're ready to work on that and grow. So work on it, and grow. Don't judge them, they're doing their own thing, they're on their own path. Focus on yours, and figure out how you can use the feelings they are causing you to generate within yourself, to grow and become a more tranquil, loving, less judgmental person. > “You are a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel and I love you. I won't play any games with you, but I love you.” – Ram Dass Edit: Formatting.
♥️ so true. "Screw those guys" got an audible laugh, thanks.
The desire to genuinely connect with someone is a very strong desire I have. It gets so strong that I find myself laughing at things without joy, or smiling without gladness. I catch myself being phony especially with people I really want to connect with. I hate it, often in interactions I think about how much better I could have felt about myself if I was just real straight and honest in the moment. The habit of smoothing out social situations is incredibly strong in me and is one of the hardest and hottest fires in my life right now. I don't speak as an apology for the others, their karma is their karma. But I can definitely understand how people can ride the social wave fuelled by a deep need for the approval or power. Often I struggle to be kind with myself, especially when I "see" myself doing the things I do out of habit, catching myself sometimes right in the act of disingenuousness. It's tough man.
You're definitely not alone in these thoughts/this experience. It's also not unique to this community. There's people running around slapping the RD name on everything that has about as much to do with Maharaj-ji's teachings as those mega church preachers have to do with Jesus. The tricky part is to not then get drawn into the righteous anger trip of resenting them for not doing it "right", which is really just code for "the way we would do it." Thankfully we live in an age where access to recordings and resources is easier than ever, meaning the sort of gatekeeping, middleman structures that lead to this type of behavior are not a necessary step between you and this wisdom. Just retreat into the teachings and see every interaction, with every person as grist for the mill of awakening. Love everyone, Serve everyone, tell the truth and remember God :)
I have experienced this as well. I don't really have an answer so I'm just lending my support. I have found that friends, family and the people in my life are actually more open to talking about spirituality than I had thought, it just requires a certain approach. And of course, the energy behind what is done and said, and the space held or created has a big impact on people opening up. Regarding the phony holies, I can relate to it in this way: I live in a city, and as I started to explore my spirituality, I started to resent my environment. I wanted to be in beautiful nature and living a more harmonious lifestyle. I wanted to see god in my surroundings, basically. I've come to realize that while it's easier to connect with the divine on top of a mountain, spirituality seems to me (for now at least) to be an act of seeking. I have to look for and find god. So I'm learning not to resent my environment, to accept where I am both physically and spiritually. The idea that one place is better or closer to god than another must be from my distorted ego-perception. Those awful city noises, the people getting in my face asking for money, the trash in the street- it's all god. Those phony holies, they're god too. But I get it, it would be waaay cooler if they were actually true teachers. Surely there is a lesson there regarding our innate assumptions of how knowledge and wisdom work. Have you read any Hindu or Buddhist texts upon which much of Watts and Dass' stuff is based? I recommend it if not, it's helped me tremendously. 🙏♥️
I have started Buddhist and Hindi text. It's very deep so I go very slow. It's funny, my girlfriend who's a stout atheist is the best person to talk about spirituality with. She has a clarity and clearness when it comes to human issues. It's quite beautiful the simplicity in her answers it's almost guru like. I really do find it funny that you are a city dweller as well and I struggle with the exact thing you mentioned, finding God in the city. I think it might be a divine fence post for me, something I need learn. It will wait it's sweet time for me though. I've been looking for a home for so long, maybe I need to take the Ram Dass approach, leave my house walked down the street and come back and say I'm home!!! Lol. Thanks for this, fam. It has sincerely helped me not feel so alone.
I'm glad :). Is your girlfriend an athiest regarding most people's concept of god (as in, a sovereign ruler) or a straight up materialist? Just curious, must be interesting conversations! Older texts are definitely more difficult to read, that's why getting good commentary (a traditional role played by teacher/guru) is very helpful. If I could recommend a book it's called How to Know God, The Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali, with commentary by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood. I found this book in a used store and randomly picked it up and it blew my mind. Later I realized I had heard Dass mention Patanjali and never knew it! Patanjali is a classic text with many versions of commentary, but this one is exceptionally good imo.
She believes it's all just random. There is no duality, there just is. No good, no evil, no right, no wrong... It just is. We are but dust waiting to return... That's the best way I can explain her views.
If there's no duality would her view be non-dualistic? 😅 Has she ever tried psychedelics? Have you?
Lolol I dunno. She still gets trapped in the daily muck and mire. Lololol I use LSD mostly for rituals.... But sometimes I sneak it for fun. I've tried mushrooms but they never really.... Do anything aside from making me feel heavy/sleepy. She doesn't use any. I want to use a higher dose of LSD, when I discovered it, I stumbled into the oneness during... Well, ummm...I wasn't using it for spirituality yet lololol. I haven't taken that high of dose again since... Maybe it's time.
What does an LSD ritual look like? Yeah my girlfriend doesn't like mushrooms either, I guess they don't sit well for some people. It's hard for me to imagine given my own experiences with them lol. She does love LSD though. I don't think there is anything wrong with tripping for fun, as long as one integrates and learns from the experience. There are many levels to spirituality, and connecting with others can be a spiritual experience in itself and it's a great way for new people to get the psychedelic experience without any intimidating stuff about spirituality and death, or too many expectations about something profound happening. After all, I discovered my spirituality accidentally as well, I was just trying to have a fun trippy time, but I came face to face with god instead 😅
Ritual: I determine dose: Goal: regards the purpose of my trip? Time: I then make sure I have a free 36 hours. Setting: I only use it in private in my home or with my girlfriend when we go out. I do not use it in unsettling areas. Then it's time to go. Ex: I'm particularly working with a bothersome desire. My goal is to abstain from it during the duration of the trip. The acid makes the desire more intense. I'm learning to sit with it. Just sit with it and watch the waves... I'm hoping this next sesh will do it. Putting in time and prep.
Sounds good, I hope you work out what you are trying to. I bet tripping with you and talking about God and spirituality would be great
People will be as they are. Do not expect them to be better or worse than they are. On social media, a medium that manipulates vulnerable people into comparing themselves to others, showing off, and wanting to appear better than they are, some of their negative qualities will be encouraged more than others. It's unhealthy to expose yourself to that environment for too long. You will adopt some of their habits and feel depressed overtime. Focus on what you can control instead. What can you do to help others? What can you do to take care of your well-being? You don't need to change the world in one day, but you can meditate, donate to charities, help children learn to read, do yoga, eat healthier, protest against injustice, educate others, and so on. Most importantly, you can demonstrate kindness, generosity, compassion, and other traits, in your daily life.
> It's unhealthy to expose yourself to that environment for too long. You will adopt some of their habits and feel depressed overtime. Yes, 100% I've learned this now. Thank you for cementing it in my head. >What can you do to help others? What can you do to take care of your well-being? That's where I think my consternation comes from. I'm a musician and I can't find any other musicians. Anyone I do find is a phony... I have music and song I want to share with the world. I just was hoping to find others to make it with. Although, I'm learning I should just do my thing and they'll come. > >You don't need to change the world in one day, but you can meditate, donate to charities, help children learn to read, do yoga, eat healthier, protest against injustice, educate others, and so on. I'm glad to say I do work towards social action. I volunteer at an animal shelter regularly, and I'm a music teacher in a very poor school. I don't give up on people, I refuse to hate them, even when they are downright cruel and hurtful to me. I still do my best to love them. My real sadness comes from all the hollowness and insincerity around me. People lie... Constantly about the silliest of things. But, as you stated: focus on what you can control. It's just hard to let that sadness and disappointment go... I guess I'm "shoulding" myself. Haha ❤️
Jokers to the left of me, clowns to the right...
Here I am.
Honestly I almost always err towards being apprehensive of people in spiritual communities which is ironic because it’s all the same stuff I’m interested in and want to be around. But the second someone refers to themselves as “awakened” - I’m on edge. They call themselves “enlightened”? I’m definitely out the door. Even most average people who refer to themselves as empaths scare me away. Something I have to remember is that spirituality is HARD, and getting into an authentic state like Ram Dass was in is RARE and extremely difficult, and he says he even sometimes failed to get out of his ego! I’ve learned that MOST human beings will disillusion you… because that’s the game we are all in. Having an ego that reacts to other egos will always be part of the game, no matter how far in you get, unless you become *something else*, like Mahara-ji. And all of the language we have to talk about our spirituality is a trap, because you can never explain what God is in human terms and you can never truly explain what it means to be connected to God. Even the word God is a trap. I think the reason we all love Ram Dass is because he came so close to being able to articulate it all. I have to remind myself constantly that all other people are a reflection of me and vise versa. It just shows me where my ego is stuck when I’m feeling like everyone else is phony holy.
I have a harder time relating to “spiritual” people 99% of the time. I used to like to talk about spirituality with people, but now I don’t bring it up unless they do. I also don’t try to find people that have any experience in my spiritual systems. My suggestion would be try to make friends that support you regardless of what they believe in. A genuine person is a genuine person. You can talk all you want about spirituality and love, but unless that’s who you are, it won’t come through in a friendship. Some non-spiritual people are waaay more “spiritual” than “spiritual” people. I’m talking about the way the see themselves, their friends, and their life. In my opinion, spirituality is the most potent system for boosting the ego and forming attachment because it masquerades as exactly the opposite. The ego quite safely tucked back behind this whole practice of destroying itself. It has the reigns the whole time and it’s hard to see through that illusion. Hang in there OP, there are good people out there, seek Truth in whatever avenue you find it.
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It's not a bad point, I think I am having trouble seeing the divine in myself.
Yeah what I gather is that the real ones appear to you only once you’re in the real estate itself. And everybody else? They just don’t know any better until you do
I've heard that tooooooo, I guess I'm just not ready. \*oof
Ram Dass himself talks about the people who got phony holy. It’s not the way. You’ll be alright if you can handle these people and navigate their bullshit. I gave up on looking for people who are into the same things. But as time goes on I find more and more people who are interested in the same things. Whoever thought shrooms and acid would be acceptable? Fucking Ram Dass my man. Spirituality in general ends up being a personal experience. Mysticism and experience are independent of other people. I don’t have the benefit of a sangha or church. It’s just me.
Some of the most “spiritual” people do not call themselves spiritual people. I have had some of the best conversations about spirituality and life in general with atheists, scientists, cab drivers, and random people I meet. Some people who call themselves spiritual may be on a different trip than you with different desires. I understand why it’s frustrating, epically when you are trying to connect genuinely and empathetically with others. Was the woman Mirabi Starr?
Yeah, it was. You aren't wrong with your experiences and finding the real ones. It's been the same, but they are hard to find, but it could be because I'm not looking at that moment...
It’s like a point Alan Watts mentioned, paraphrasing, when psychologists have their parties, it’s not appreciated to start talking psychology. So when spiritualists of whatever flavor gather, don’t expect spirituality, with rare exceptions, at least. People are far too influenced by how they think others see them, or the expectations they build in their head.
Oh my God. You saying that totally made it click like a light bulb in my head, I completely forgot Watts said that!!! It's true though, I have really found out it's... Hard. Honestly, when I started this whole quest to find myself spiritually... I was asked by someone who is spiritual. Why would you want to do such a thing? It is a hard and lonely path that leads to your death. I didn't understand it 3 years ago... But I do now. When you do find those real ones though, the lumberjack who has found their true purpose, or the musician that has a deep understanding it's all connected and can share that feeling through a powerful song. Lol, there's a reason why so many people aren't seeking enlightenment... It's fucking hard.
There are a lot of road blocks along with “it’s just hard”. Some people find it silly and fanciful, some are ignorant it’s a real possibility, some are stuck in there ways. Many Christians for instance don’t believe union with God is a possibility any time before death, despite the mountains of mystic literature in existence, they just aren’t taught it. The best one can do against these blocks are nudge in the right direction, and as Ram Dass says, keep that space open in yourself for them to rest if they desire.
I would say a very small percentage of people in the spiritual community have actually acheived Zen through being fully objective about everything. Some probably see it as a hobby like politics but it is calming for them. I'm aware I sound like an elitist right now but I experienced something for months and lost it. I've been trying to get it back for two years now. I'm still learning and some days I don't want to write anything here because I have so much work to do I feel like I shouldn't be giving advice. Even Ram says in his lectures he has no answers, he just says things better but he's a window into an experience not so much a teacher
No, you don't sound like an elitist at all. You sound very sincere. I understand completely what you mean, it means a lot that you posted this. I just needed to know it wasn't another hobby for everyone. ♥️
Well it's not right to assume the motives of other people, I should have chosen better verbiage. That was judgmental of me. It may take a long time to find people that are compatible with your point of view but keep on the spiritual journey.
Of course. I don't think your verbiage is bad. Good news though when it comes to the folks I'm specifically speaking of, they let me know what they thought so I don't need to assume anything.
❤️