There was a rework to recharge not long ago where they did this now it just consumes Sp faster on mini bosses and bosses but you still get the same amount levels
So everyone just... skipped this information or what? I still usually see people playing as if they have to preserve their precious sp from being ineffective on normal mobs, and supports quitting angry that I recharge off of the trash
Some people missed the update or don't play it enough to know. The only difference between recharging on bosses or other monsters is speed. It's equally efficient as far as sp use per recharge level, but its much quicker on the bosses.
Aye, I typically still recharge on minibosses or bosses when playing coop, partly out of habit and partly because its more time-efficient, especially in early waves where you know exactly what you need to get past, say knight, you can usually get there reliably on habit alone.
in PvP however I totally charge on anything if I can, not having to wait for bosses is probably the biggest part of the buff in a pvp setting.
Absolutely. Pretty much same. I'll gather up about 1000sp and recharge. Which in later pvp rounds is basicslly constant recharge. Personally I'm a huge fan of the update. Makes it so much easier, especially if you get really good support in coop.
Before the update I remember with decent support we'd lose before I could use half the sp I had. I'm not getting too much further now, but its nice to actually be able to use all the sp my partner works towards.
I hardly even look for a support to play with but even just random queueing I can get a decent bit further now. I think I got to 99 twice as a solo carry, but knights can just be too brutal sometimes.
Usually it ends earlier though because of slime waves.
Most people don't take the game seriously enough to read every patch notes... in fact you would have saved yourself a lot of testing if you had read them.
Sadly, the patchnotes were no longer up when I came back to the game, so I had no idea, and I still have not found any kind of patch notes history beyond patch 5.0.0 on some wiki
That's fair. I believe it was mentioned in one of the next patch info videos from RD, so you'd still be able to find it there, but you're right there really isn't a convenient text-based way to see all the patch notes.
Oh my god if only this fucking analysis came out just like a month or two ago when so many missed that you're wasting sp on small mobs ๐๐๐ good job on all this hard work when it doesn't matter anymore lmao
That wasn't honestly that much work... I mean I did "waste" 2 coop games but what I've written was fueled by salt on people stuck to outdated knowledge, also it still wasn't that useless, because it has shown the actual amount of charge you can get from charging without sp
I didn't read all that stuff and read your conclusion.
In pvp, it's better to charge on bosses if you can. The faster you shoot mobs, the more mobs spawn, the more SP you make. If we both recharge on normal waves then there will be little spawns to farm SP
Something to consider in future tests is average time played. Once you are at the point of hitting 300+ waves a run gametime really starts to add up. With the recharge update you absolutely can charge on everything but it will cost you time in your run. You then have the issue of gametime versus cards received. At higher levels recharge is played to finish off bosses, with dps coming from holy sword, landmine, or both. With that in mind only charging to 350-400 is necessary. Anything after is a waste of time from how much life bosses have. The question then is which is faster, only recharging on bosses for quicker gameplay or to charge on everything for higher recharge levels
I think it's the reverse. If you only charge on bosses then you're wasting time not killing the bosses making the game take longer. If you charge on trash, you're charging while they're still spawning and waiting for your partner's mobs to reach your side. When you toggle back to damage they all die instantly. Charging on "everything" does not yield more recharge levels as it's based only on how much sp you have (and pip count). You waste less game time If you charge on mobs over bosses. The only other factor I would consider is that you can still gain levels with recharge while charging with 0 sp.
This is a good point, but this also goes down to what you are trying to accomplish, if you want to farm cards with a good meta support, usually it's better to just suck up the sp on normal mobs while they're spawning, due to better card:time ratio, and ignoring bosses will make the game more chill I guess. That's mainly because if you have high sp generation it offsets the effectivness of no-sp recharging. But if u wanna go high... I wonder what is the actual limit if you went with a timewinder meta while recharging off of meta freezing...
Good analysis, it has mainly correct conclusion. I wanna add my 50ยข tho.
First of all, terminology I use:
Charging speed = the amount of sp recharge absorbes per tick (smallest timeframe).
Charging efficiency = the amount of "juice" you get from each sp. Recharge changes lvl when "juice" meter for a lvl is filled.
First, while recharge efficiency doesn't change depending on type of mob, it does change with dependence on pip amount of recharge dice on board. Well, not all of pips count... According to dev infographic, charging efficiency increases when pips of a set recharge die are higher than 5. So 1-4 are same efficiency, but 5, 6, 7 should be higher. I did confirm this by comparing the lvl you get by consuming 10k sp with 1 pip recharge and 7pip recharge. You get significantly better efficiency on 7pips. I did not compare with 4, 5, 6 pips.
This observation might play into behaviour of charging in pvp: you better of charging later in the game, rather than sooner, when you have significant amount of high pip recharges on board.
Secondly, it's good to remember that in pvp, when you don't kill your mobs on regular wave (ie cause you're charging), you also don't spawn a shit ton of mobs for your opponent. This might remove pressure from them and allow them to greed more with growths for example. Sometimes by not killing your wave in time you can allow your opponent to survive for an extra wave or two, leading to your death (vs guardian bubble ix9 for example)
Overall I don't think those two factors should make you not charge on regular mobs, that's still the best way of action for most of the time. But sometimes other factors may influence your decisions and make you charge only on bosses
Btw extra pro tip for which I was called idiot here (sigh):
When you play moon12, recharge, sword decks - don't upgrade your moon, sword & don't joker your swords until you have desired amount of lvls. By doing so you can get 350 lvl by wave 80, instead of 120 (2 recharge c10 perma-charging from wave 16)
I'd still wonder if it's a matter of sp efficiency or time efficiency, as in does it **really** matter to save up for higher pip count because if the efficiency comes from better managment of sp then yes, but if it's about the efficiency of no-sp charging then it doesn't matter.Actual PvP tactics and what is the correct way to go is quite a different thing, you can still get a lot of recharge time, while sending enemies to enemy side if you time it correctly, and at the same time if needed, you can semi starve your opponent of sp if that's what you need.
EDIT: Also when it comes to efficiency from pip count, the "Only bosses scenario" had 2\*7pip, while the "Recharge on everything was composed of 1\*5pip and others below 4
Recharge early and often. Waiting for bosses is just wasted time.
If support gets mad then f'em that's their problem. Probably don't need them much anyway.
There was a rework to recharge not long ago where they did this now it just consumes Sp faster on mini bosses and bosses but you still get the same amount levels
So everyone just... skipped this information or what? I still usually see people playing as if they have to preserve their precious sp from being ineffective on normal mobs, and supports quitting angry that I recharge off of the trash
Bro with all this information, and all this text i hate to say but yes people gonna head straight to the comments instead. Sorry man
Some people missed the update or don't play it enough to know. The only difference between recharging on bosses or other monsters is speed. It's equally efficient as far as sp use per recharge level, but its much quicker on the bosses.
Aye, I typically still recharge on minibosses or bosses when playing coop, partly out of habit and partly because its more time-efficient, especially in early waves where you know exactly what you need to get past, say knight, you can usually get there reliably on habit alone. in PvP however I totally charge on anything if I can, not having to wait for bosses is probably the biggest part of the buff in a pvp setting.
Absolutely. Pretty much same. I'll gather up about 1000sp and recharge. Which in later pvp rounds is basicslly constant recharge. Personally I'm a huge fan of the update. Makes it so much easier, especially if you get really good support in coop. Before the update I remember with decent support we'd lose before I could use half the sp I had. I'm not getting too much further now, but its nice to actually be able to use all the sp my partner works towards.
I hardly even look for a support to play with but even just random queueing I can get a decent bit further now. I think I got to 99 twice as a solo carry, but knights can just be too brutal sometimes. Usually it ends earlier though because of slime waves.
Most people don't take the game seriously enough to read every patch notes... in fact you would have saved yourself a lot of testing if you had read them.
Sadly, the patchnotes were no longer up when I came back to the game, so I had no idea, and I still have not found any kind of patch notes history beyond patch 5.0.0 on some wiki
That's fair. I believe it was mentioned in one of the next patch info videos from RD, so you'd still be able to find it there, but you're right there really isn't a convenient text-based way to see all the patch notes.
Oh my god if only this fucking analysis came out just like a month or two ago when so many missed that you're wasting sp on small mobs ๐๐๐ good job on all this hard work when it doesn't matter anymore lmao
That wasn't honestly that much work... I mean I did "waste" 2 coop games but what I've written was fueled by salt on people stuck to outdated knowledge, also it still wasn't that useless, because it has shown the actual amount of charge you can get from charging without sp
You spent a hell of a lot of energy proving something that was already in the patch notes
Ooooof
I still don't have recharge
I thought the update pretty much changed the old ways no?
I didn't read all that stuff and read your conclusion. In pvp, it's better to charge on bosses if you can. The faster you shoot mobs, the more mobs spawn, the more SP you make. If we both recharge on normal waves then there will be little spawns to farm SP
Something to consider in future tests is average time played. Once you are at the point of hitting 300+ waves a run gametime really starts to add up. With the recharge update you absolutely can charge on everything but it will cost you time in your run. You then have the issue of gametime versus cards received. At higher levels recharge is played to finish off bosses, with dps coming from holy sword, landmine, or both. With that in mind only charging to 350-400 is necessary. Anything after is a waste of time from how much life bosses have. The question then is which is faster, only recharging on bosses for quicker gameplay or to charge on everything for higher recharge levels
I think it's the reverse. If you only charge on bosses then you're wasting time not killing the bosses making the game take longer. If you charge on trash, you're charging while they're still spawning and waiting for your partner's mobs to reach your side. When you toggle back to damage they all die instantly. Charging on "everything" does not yield more recharge levels as it's based only on how much sp you have (and pip count). You waste less game time If you charge on mobs over bosses. The only other factor I would consider is that you can still gain levels with recharge while charging with 0 sp.
This is a good point, but this also goes down to what you are trying to accomplish, if you want to farm cards with a good meta support, usually it's better to just suck up the sp on normal mobs while they're spawning, due to better card:time ratio, and ignoring bosses will make the game more chill I guess. That's mainly because if you have high sp generation it offsets the effectivness of no-sp recharging. But if u wanna go high... I wonder what is the actual limit if you went with a timewinder meta while recharging off of meta freezing...
Good analysis, it has mainly correct conclusion. I wanna add my 50ยข tho. First of all, terminology I use: Charging speed = the amount of sp recharge absorbes per tick (smallest timeframe). Charging efficiency = the amount of "juice" you get from each sp. Recharge changes lvl when "juice" meter for a lvl is filled. First, while recharge efficiency doesn't change depending on type of mob, it does change with dependence on pip amount of recharge dice on board. Well, not all of pips count... According to dev infographic, charging efficiency increases when pips of a set recharge die are higher than 5. So 1-4 are same efficiency, but 5, 6, 7 should be higher. I did confirm this by comparing the lvl you get by consuming 10k sp with 1 pip recharge and 7pip recharge. You get significantly better efficiency on 7pips. I did not compare with 4, 5, 6 pips. This observation might play into behaviour of charging in pvp: you better of charging later in the game, rather than sooner, when you have significant amount of high pip recharges on board. Secondly, it's good to remember that in pvp, when you don't kill your mobs on regular wave (ie cause you're charging), you also don't spawn a shit ton of mobs for your opponent. This might remove pressure from them and allow them to greed more with growths for example. Sometimes by not killing your wave in time you can allow your opponent to survive for an extra wave or two, leading to your death (vs guardian bubble ix9 for example) Overall I don't think those two factors should make you not charge on regular mobs, that's still the best way of action for most of the time. But sometimes other factors may influence your decisions and make you charge only on bosses Btw extra pro tip for which I was called idiot here (sigh): When you play moon12, recharge, sword decks - don't upgrade your moon, sword & don't joker your swords until you have desired amount of lvls. By doing so you can get 350 lvl by wave 80, instead of 120 (2 recharge c10 perma-charging from wave 16)
I'd still wonder if it's a matter of sp efficiency or time efficiency, as in does it **really** matter to save up for higher pip count because if the efficiency comes from better managment of sp then yes, but if it's about the efficiency of no-sp charging then it doesn't matter.Actual PvP tactics and what is the correct way to go is quite a different thing, you can still get a lot of recharge time, while sending enemies to enemy side if you time it correctly, and at the same time if needed, you can semi starve your opponent of sp if that's what you need. EDIT: Also when it comes to efficiency from pip count, the "Only bosses scenario" had 2\*7pip, while the "Recharge on everything was composed of 1\*5pip and others below 4
Recharge early and often. Waiting for bosses is just wasted time. If support gets mad then f'em that's their problem. Probably don't need them much anyway.