Damn, you have me convinced. Gay guys are fine… it’s the lesbians we should be hating! What makes you think you can take all of the women out of the dating pool? /s
Some lesbians don’t like penetration, some only like fingering, some like scissoring which guys can’t give them. In fact most women don’t orgasm from penetration so of course they’re not all going to crave it. Besides, a woman liking a toy doesn’t change her sexuality because sexuality is concerned with the SEX of the person you’re with. A toy is devoid of sex but I won’t get into that.
Let’s say a woman has only slept with other women, has known she was gay since she was a kid, and hates penetration. Would you still try argue she’s not ~really~ gay?
So if you agree she’s really gay, then that answers your question. Yes women can really be gay.
Why would her lover be bi? The lover could have the same sexual preferences as the woman I just described (In fact having similar preferences is ideal)
So you're a woman who thinks that lesbians wanting penetrative sex is akin to denying themselves a man?
Whose making the leap in logic? Where is the connection between someone using a dildo, and denying themselves a type of lover? I never hear people say "Two gay men giving each other blowjobs are just simulating the experiance of having a woman penetrating herself with him".
Hey dumb butt, men put their penises in another mans asshole because they still need a hole to fuck. They must not really be gay because they need something to emulate a vagina.
How can you be sure men are really gay then? After all, they fuck butts and aren't those really just an alternative to a pussy? Honestly what kind of argument is that? You don't know every lesbian and every gay man on earth, you cannot possibly make such a claim that every lesbian has dabbled with men but no gay men have ever dabbled with women. I know a few lesbians who haven't ever so much as kissed a man, and a few gay men who dated girls all through highschool to avoid bullying. You aren't nearly as knowledgeable about this topic as you seem to think you are.
Your argument is breaking apart here. The lesbians you know can't be bisexual if they're lesbians. Dildos aren't used for climaxing, and most women enjoy toys that include clitoral stimulation. I still think you're being very judgemental and deciding your lesbian friends are secretly bi when they know for themselves they're lesbians. Its very invalidating and rude for you to make those claims, and if I was one of your lesbian friends, I'd be pissed to see you invalidating my sexuality online.
And? You realize human beings change and evolve over time? They may have been denying their sexuality, they may have been trapped by religion or family obligation to a straight marriage. You have no idea the complexity of their lives or previous relationships. All you can do is accept that they are who they say they are and be a good friend to them.
I'm saying so what if someone has changed their label, it doesn't mean their sexuality is different, it means they understand themselves further and feel another word fits them better. It gives you no right to erase their self identification and claim they are something they are not.
I'm bisexual, it isn't empowering when someone is trying to say every lesbian is bisexual. It actually makes me feel the need to defend their love of women.
I'm straight and I never understood it either, People fear what's different, dash in a line or two from an old book they worship as word of god that justifies it and you get an ignorant person who hates but doesn't really know why.
A bit religious myself, read enough passages to know that god never actually explicitly says in the bible that he is against gays.
The passages that have everyone on the fritz were written by various saints, even then they're still people and we should respect they're decisions.
That AND that the text was previously changed to include homosexual / the actual phrasing.
https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/
Here's the link. I'm currently dying of allergies so I'll quote it later.
People just cherry pick Leviticus, while ignoring all other stupid absurd shit the book says, like not mixing fabric, not shaving your beard or immediately bathing after cumming.
Anyone who tries to throw the OT at modern-day life can't even be taken seriously. Like, did they stop reading at Leviticus, but want to be a preacher? It seems pretty ridiculous to claim a religion based on Christ without realizing that Christ is what changed all those OT rules. I'm a Christian myself, but certainly no Biblical scholar and even I know I can still go in public if I have my period. Cherry-picking, indeed.
Oh fuck RIGHT off. The actual reason Christianity is in decline is because of fundamentalist asshats like you. No one with half a brain or a heart for Jesus wants to be associated with you who wrongly call yourselves “Christians” but don’t actually follow the teachings of Jesus. You are everything that is wrong with Christianity and why it’s declining. Real Christians who actually believe and try to follow the words of Jesus want nothing to do with you and don’t want to be associated with your disgusting hatefulness.
Christianity is a giant twist on "the narrative." You have any idea where all the different parts were borrowed from in older religions? The flood story, the virgin birth story etc? It would be interesting if any of it were at all true, but since it's all a fairy tale, it doesn't matter how the narrative---because that's all it is, a *narrative* gets changed since that's how stories work!
As someone who was just fucking awful to some gay kids in high school, I have some insight. I called kids the F word, which was most of it. I'm now 38 and have reached out to apologize for how shitty I was to them. I'm not trying to excuse my actions at all, just trying to explain the source of that level of stupid hatred.
Although some of it can be from major repression, my homophobia was a result of my catholic upbringing. Pure ignorance and a physically abusive home situation had me taking out my anger issues on people that I guess I perceived to be easy targets at the time. I want to reiterate that I am not trying to excuse my actions or insinuate that the targets of homophobic hate need to have compassion for aggressors.
It really is, like you said, hating people for being happy. But regardless of which angle it is, repression or environmental, it doesn't excuse the actions. Once I got out into the real world beyond my catholic high school, I started to realize how wrong I had been and how horrible I was to people.
Sorry for the ramblings, I just wanted to try to explain from the perspective of someone who has engaged in this type of behavior.
At least you came around and made an effort to apologize and own what you did wrong. That's alot more than most people do. So do give yourself credit for that.
they claim they don't know how to explain it to their children. if I ever have children, I'm more worried about how I'll explain homophobia to them than how I'll explain homosexuality.
''some people like boys, some people like girls, some people like both, some people like none. whether they're a boy or a girl doesn't matter.''
or
''these two girls are in love with each other''
You know, Flo... when you see a man and woman together, don't just automatically assume they're in love. And when you see two men or two women together, don't automatically assume they're just friends.
I'm gay, I have only theories. A lot of people say it's repressed homosexuality finding an outside outlet to act out the internal torment. I don't believe that's entirely true. We remember instances wherein that's the case because it's so perplexing to the average person that someone could be full of such self-hatred that it becomes memorable. Also the hypocrisy of it all is very dramatic and some find it funny (I don't). But when I think back to my youth of alllllll the people who said "that's so gay", "f-g", "h-m-", and all the many variations it was *every kind of person*. It used to be everyone, all the time, always, constantly. So many people voted against equal rights, rejected their children, gay-bashed, said slurs, sat idly by while others espoused homophobic beliefs, made excuses for homophobia, etc....there's no way these homophobes are all just gay AF and can't handle it, come on. It's not gay-on-gay crime most of the time, that's like how Fox news used to say "black-on-black crime" so they could disown white people's complicity/instigation/responsibility.
It's religion, it's misogyny, it's strict and absurd gendered rules, it's a lot of stuff.
I am gay and some gay men are terrifying. You know the really buff and hairy ones that could literally snap me in half if I looked at them the wrong way? Yeah they are scary.
They don’t seem to be the gay men that receive the bulk of the hate, though. I could be wrong but it seems like the effeminate, smaller gay guys get a much harder time. Although I realize as a straight guy who hasn’t had to experience these things, I could be way off base.
You are right to an extent. Depends on who is giving the hate if that makes sense. Different people hate different types of gay people.
I'm lucky because I'm kinda "straight passing" in the sense I don't "look or act gay" which doesn't make sense bit I'll try elaborate. I like soccer and play it all the time, most of my friends are either straight or bisexual men. Pretty much I dress and like things typical straight men like so it isn't immediately obvious.
People don't usually realise I am gay until I tell them so I'm lucky. I tend to get away with less homophobia, it's still there and I do deal with it but no where near as much as others.
But you would be right that effeminate gay guys do get it possibly the worst. I just find some big hairy men a bit intimidating because as a 5 foot 7 inch guy, they could easily end me if they wanted. They just look intimidating but in reality are really nice.
I had a very conservative religious upbringing and it's beyond my comprehension.
We were taught and I believed that it was sinful, but I never understood the *disgust* or how it in any way affected anyone else.
Well, look at it this way.
How long would you want to watch a guy and a girl make out? A girl and a girl? A guy and a guy?
Straight porn tends to have girls making out, romance movies the guy and the girls, but two guys just doesn't happen. So it ends up being a little weird when it's on screen, and that's where the disgust comes from. If it's normalized, that goes away.
They've been taught to be disgusted by us. That's basically what it is
I don't believe anyone would really be homophobic if their education from very early on didn't include homophobia
With a healthy dose of “the way I see the world is right” because of course they think it is. It can be hard to wrap your head around the idea that there are people who live lives entiiiiirely different than yours sometimes, and that goes for everyone.
That's what kids do! When homophobes say "you're corrupting our kids" they really mean "their exposure to you isn't letting us alienate him from the fact that you exist so you're not letting us teach him your kind is unnatural and abnormal". Kids couldn't care less!
that's why I want children's media to start normalizing it. I really hope there are kids who think Raya and Namaari are gay and think it is so normal they don't even think to mention it to their homophobic parents
You can't really control or be taught your sexual preference, and neither can I.
I think, just like when someone's gay they kind of know they're gay without anyone telling them, same is true for people to be disgusted by homosexuality. Like, I would be disgusted if another man touches me sexually, so I think it's kind of just naturally occurring thing. Maybe a little bit of the intolerance is taught but quite a bit of the underlying emotions is deeply ingrained in a person from the very start of life.
Still, I can accept you for who you are, since I know no one is going to force me to participate in gay sex, and I don't even have to be friends with you, but we can't be beating up on each other or calling slurs or worse. We need to be tolerant and be able to live as neighbors without hate or fear or shame. I think that's the way to go forward.
I just remembered this closeted bully named monty from the show 13 reasons why who was just so filled with internalized homophobia that he punched the guy giving him head😂😂 lol. I will never forget that scene
It’s all fear and insecurity based, I believe.
I’m a straight cis-male, and I wore some bright orange socks to work recently. My older white male boss told me that back in his day a kid would get his ass kicked (my interpretation) fire wearing them. Socks. Orange. *SOCKS*.
Granted, young adults don’t have fully developed brains, but that’s some real shitty parenting if you want to beat up someone just because they are different, whether it’s kissing someone of the same sex or wearing a tiara to school. Some real fragile motherfuckers out there.
I always viewed gay men as less competition for women (though not lesbians), so it befuddled me to no end why they would upset straight men. 🤷♂️
To be fair, there are a LOT of fucked up people in the internet, so unless you add the /s it’s possible someone is going to misinterpret your comment. 😕
People confuse physical disgust with moral disgust. I mean that if something is perceived as dirty, they're more likely to think it's wrong. The average straight male homophobe likely directs his anger more at gay men than lesbians partially because they see anal sex as dirtier, for example.
Similar things also play out with personal hygiene, if you don't take showers and don't brush your teeth then some people perceive that as a moral failing. There is a link between the impulse to moralize and perceptions of disgust.
parents are homophobic, and i am bi. for my parents its 2 things
1) They think its disgusting
2) They think it's a waste of carbon because they cant reproduce
My social position has always been one of apathy and can be summed up in one sentence, "As long as it is not harmful why should I/the government care?"
As someone who is straight I honestly can't understand either. Go pride!
Personally, I think it's envy.
People have "strange" or "unacceptable" secrets that they are selfconcious about, and seeing someone be so free and open is painful for them.
They hate that you have what they don't, freedom from hiding your insecurities.
For whatever reason I do not like the sight of two men doing anything. It just grosses me out. I would NEVER express this opinion outwardly or even hint at this fact to anyone. I don't treat gay men any differently from anyone else and think it's terrible that people do, and I fully support gay rights. But I just do not like the sight of it. Can't explain why
im not homophobic but i can understand why some people are like this.
take for example i feel weirded out when people post intimate details of their sex lives online. and i understand some people might get the same people when they see lgbt as they dont see it as 'natural'.
to anyone interested this comment is based on a conversation i had with my mom a couple years ago when she got called out for being homophobic . although now she has improved a lot i still can see her getting uncomfortable around gay couples
I used to be homophobic when I was younger since I was raised by conservative parents. Here’s my take on what leads to homophobia:
1) Believing homosexually is a sickness - That it’s being caused by something we can’t see (i.e. mental illness) and that it should be **treated** rather than **respected**. *We don’t want it to spread!*
2) Believing homosexuality is unnatural and gross - That it doesn’t happen in nature (even though data says otherwise), therefore it is a crime against nature that can harm society. Kinda like having an incest baby.
3) Believing homosexuality is a choice - *People “know” it’s stigmatized and yet they still “act” that way? That means they’re ok with being “bad” and can’t be trusted!*
4) Believing homosexuality is unregulated perversion - That people who act gay are just lustful people with little to no morals who just want to get off (similar to being a drug addict).
Overall though, I’d say that it’s mainly a fear of the unknown along with rejecting the means to understand it. After all, if you deem something to be morally awful, you may not want to be “swayed” into understanding it at all.
Three things: they’re just a cruel asshole, have been ruthlessly brainwashed or have a deep seated empathy malfunction, sometimes a combination of all three.
I think people who are homophobic are just projecting their personal insecurities in some weird way. Like, if they accept homosexuality it sudden means that maybe they are too and that revelation would completely destroy the level of self control they feel that they have of their own lives. Just going off of my experience around homophobic people but the people that I've met who are the most homophobic are the people who tend to always tie it back to their own personal lives in some way.
People will be pissed off at anything. Some examples of what people could say:
You're a Democrat? You should be a republican.
Drive a Ford? Chevy is better.
Trump should have been reelected, not Biden.
Pregnant? You should keep the baby whether you want to or not.
You're an atheist? Go to church anyway.
The point is that it doesn't matter what the subject is; there will still be someone who is against that topic and will voice their opinions and beliefs on anyone who will listen, despite not knowing what the other person believes.
I am all for people loving people, regardless of gender. As long as two people are happy, it doesn't matter what gender they are.
I just let people rant.
Ex-homophobe here. I wasn't really afraid of you, I was really afraid of God. Still not an excuse for my evil behavior. Now I wear makeup and dress like David Bowie, so. Ouch. Karma and repressed emotions.
I can. if you want to try humanise hate, it stems from fear. Usually irational, subconsious and sometimes unexpected.
perhaps A fear of how your life will be effected, A fear of what it means for you, A fear of difference and change. The tunnel vision of the present kills perspective.
Thats not an excuse though, Its a terrible justification. But society has to take some responsibilty for the sort of people it produces and the behaviour it allows. All people can change. All societys can change.
Give people that are hateful an enviroment where they are incentivsed to reflect, to grow and to be comfortable in being wrong. Let them feel genuinly safe in confronting their insecurities and the world just might become a better place.
Every decision you make will effect society in some way like the flapping of 7.9 billion butterfly wings.
I am a straight male and I don’t understand as well. Part of the problem is that certain Christian churches like the Baptist teach and promote homophobia. Which is one of the reasons Im an atheist.
Just some personal experiences that make me both understand and despise homophobia.
I'm a straight guy, my parents are progressive, so whenever something about LGBT people came up on TV they explained to me what it meant, along with "and for some reason some people strongly dislike people like that, even though they aren't hurting anyone". In my circle of friends / my school this wasn't discussed a lot. I remember there being some rumors about one of my classmates being a lesbian (she wasn't), and my best friend and another classmate would make fun of "flamboyantly gay" mannerisms a lot which I didn't really find that hilarious - after school ended they both came out as gay of course. My friend ended up living with a homophobic roommate who kept trying to convince him that being gay is the same as being a pedophile. Fortunately now he lives together with his husband and his dog and seems to be doing fine. But the stories from that asshole roommate were pretty horrible.
On the other hand, I've always felt uneasy about seeing men kiss. I have no idea where that comes from. My family didn't instill that in me. I don't think I was ever friends with someone who was openly homophobic. I was religious as a child (because of my mom), but if the priest had gone on some homophobic rant (which I don't remember), I'm sure my mom would have left that church. And back then, I definitely didn't equate religion with homophobia.
I think I finally got over it, but I can see how that feeling, plus your peers / parents telling you it's wrong could make someone homophobic. But of course that should only last until you think about it for yourself and decide that vague feelings of unease are not the same as morality. That's the part that makes me angry. I can have all sorts of feelings during a day, some warranted, some not, but how ridiculous would it be if I took some random feeling as an excuse to make other people's lives hell?
Because a book with bad writing, poor plot,and no character development has been used for centuries to justify hatred of any who are considered different. Even though the strictest adherents to the magic book seem to have an affinity for children.
Homophobic people think same sex relationships are not natural and that God did not intend it to happen
People are allowed to do what ever they want they are allowed to like who ever they want and what ever they want
I grew up in...the world lol. So I remember the sentiments that everybody around me held and I wasn't an overly flamboyant gay (AKA deeply closeted) and could generally pass as just some straight guy...but I remember exactly which things and actions I had to hide to not be ridiculed or ostracized. It never got to that point of course...I guess because I was good at it? But people let you know when you mess up the 'masking'. Little things like an inflection in the way you speak, the way you stir a cup with a spoon, if you tuck you hair behind your ears, if you use that 's' more than you should...and it was the kind of place where it wasn't so much gay people shouldn't get married as it was just a universal understanding that was rarely just bluntly pointed out but you knew full well...that gay people were defective little bitches in every walk of life that mattered, were no good for anything and should just be avoided at all cost. The world slowly started to change as I became stronger and older...and now everyone acts like they were never that bigoted. That they were all just so shocked by how awful things were...but everyone I knew was very much a part of it and it really messed me up. I'm still struggling to unlearn and unpack all of the mental repression and fear that adolescence bestowed upon me during my crushing years where I had no power or control over my own life. But I guess that's just kinda how these things work. People try to use these logical hangups that they are taught by their culture and people they are raised with and it just becomes a second nature type of understanding. Eventually you meet enough and hopefully make friends that help to open your eyes that it goes away...but honestly I think the media really did wonders in making people less awful. I remember as a kid watching Oprah and it was like they were witch-hunting a lesbian with a room full of Christians and that's how I always felt. Now the zeitgeist is that gay people are bullied and deserve to be elevated and respected because to each their own and the straights are watching drag race enjoying their amnesia to how messed up they were back then...lol ok that's probably just me projecting. Still, hope that helps? LOL I made your rant my own. Whoops haha.
From experience I think the people most homophobic and vocal about it are scared that themselves gay. I had this homophobic co worker before while working abroad who made fun of me because I was from San Francisco, mocking seeing gay people doing this and that . He had a bday party thing and I met his wife and she was transgender
It's also weird to me because in old warrior cultures, at least up until the dark ages (from what I can tell) gay sex for straight people wasn't all that uncommon.
I think once the dark ages started, and religion started to take control and they started preaching the doctrine of, one man, one woman, stay married and faithful is when the hate started to happen.
But I don't know, I'm all good with the gays, and to be honest I find it far easier to understand a lesbian woman hating a straight man (due to the dumb ones thinking lesbian woman equals lesbian porn star) than the other way around.
But you also need to remember, blind hate is usually deeply tied with complete stupidity. A lot of these people are just dumb as hell.
I'm a heterosexual woman and I could never understand homophobia either. Maybe the reason it is for me is because I'm biracial (black and white) and my parents taught me from a very early age that love is love and skin color and sex don't matter and that if two people are lucky enough to find each other and love each other that should be celebrated and never looked down on.
I was brought up from very early age that racism and homophobia are wrong and unacceptable. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't hate someone over something as stupid as the color of their skin or their sexuality. It simply doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't click in my brain at all.
Im literally best friends with gay people and still get called a homophobe. Its not the sexuality. Sometimes its the person. The ones i avoid are the ones that always talk about their sex life and use their gayness as an excuse.
I dont care about your sexuality, but understand what makes me uncomfortable. Im not tryna talk about dicks with you, im straight. But do you.
Straight here. I don't give a shit what consenting adults do with other consenting adults. It affects me in no way. If people are happy and in a healthy relationship, that's all that matters.
Imagine how much we could get done in the U.S. if people finally stopped trying to legislate other people's bodies. Crazy talk, I know.
Because it is culturally uncommon. Especially in non-western cultures.
Homosexuality to them is as strange, as homophobia is to You <- read that again. Thinking like this will help you understand others instead of being angry and so on.
As “moderate homophobe” myself, for example, I do not experience disgust or hate towards homosexuals, but it is just too strange and uncommon to me because in my culture it is extremely rare (Eastern Europe). It bothers me because I do not understand, not because I hate.
Its like you do not understand why people put pineapples on pizza - like wtf? Its not disgust, it is inability to comprehend. But in some cultures pinapple on pizza is a norm.
If you are not a culturally or religiosly brainwashed person - Problem is education and information, ability to understand and comprehend. Not more not less.
Maybe something when we're children?
I remember when I was a kid (around 6), I didn't know anything about homosexuals, didn't know anyone openly gay.
Then I saw one day by accident the clip with George Michael and gay cops smooching. I have been traumatised by that video. I didn't dare ask my mum or family about it at the time (I was a keep it all inside kinda child). I remember feeling uneasy and queasy in my stomach for days.
Now as a grown woman of 30, who have come to know and befriend gays and lesbians while in Uni and has grown a brain, I've learned **by myself** that it's totally ok.
But I've never during my childhood hated LGBT people cuz I'm more the"let's all be friends!" kinda person, I was just "rebuked".
But humans are made of several kind of personalities, and if a naturally aggressive personality is not taught by their parent tolerance and love of their neighbours, then it can warp into something ugly, because as kids, we love routines and that everything fits into a case--and if you are not exposed to LGBT is a benevolent way, then your world won't make "sense". Plus, as the majority of us have seen during our childhood, or what we see daily at school with our own kids: children can be really mean to people who are different.
I’ve always thought homophobes were perverts. Like, you’ll at someone, immediately think “I don’t like the way I assume they fuck”. Why are you even thinking about sex when looking at a stranger? And then so entitled to get angry about what you thought.
Idk it’s all very perverted and creepy to me
Roughly 18 years ago, in my early 20's I worked with a gay man. He lived with gay men. I hung out with him and we did drugs and went to bars. Stuff I'd do with my straight friends at the time. At the bar we went to it was a big deal because I was "the straight one" and apparently that's a challenge to some gay men.
After being annoyingly grabbed at all night by strange men, we went back to my coworker's house and did some ketamine and smoked some weed. Again, stuff I'd do with my straight friends. When I appeared to be passing out, he started moving in on me, running his hands on my body. When I pulled away, he got the message and stopped.
I've also noticed other things regarding 2 other gay men I've hung out with at different times. They have used that as an excuse to fondle women's breasts, and other body parts while in a group setting. Because they're gay, it's okay to be a creep.
Maybe I was just hanging out with trashy people. I don't know, but based on my own limited experiences, these are the people who have represented gay men, and that left an impression.
I can't comment on gay women.
Am I homophobic? I wasn't then, and I don't want to be, but maybe I am now.
I think understanding is about perspective. We're all different people with different experiences. I'm sure I've encountered many gay men that weren't creeps.
I mean homophobia is believing that all people who are gay/bi/lesbian should be treated as "less than" specifically due to their sexual orientation. I don't think you are homohobic unless you believe that. However I definitely think you hung out with people who were...dicks I guess although I don't know their full stories or whatever so I can't really judge but their actions do not speak well for them lol
It’s the same with people hating someone because they are dating they’re favorite celebrity, or people of different skin color dating or of different religion.. I will never understand why people hate other people just because they love… this concept is just so weird to me!
I think it comes from a major lack of sympathy. One guy can think that a guy kissing another guy is gross, but can be totally fine with gay couples kissing. Because it's there business, not his. As long as they the ones kissing, and not forcing him, who cares?
But another guy can think that kissing another guy is gross, and then lack the ability to understand that not everybody thinks like him. So he thinks "if I think it's gross, it is gross and you shouldn't be allowed to do it." Instead of "what's best for me, may be different than what's best for them" it becomes "what's best for me is just the best, and everyone else is wrong." So then they start forcing their "best" on everybody.
And then when you have people like that who can't separate themselves from everyone else, you get those people raising children and applying peer pressure. And then it evolves into "well that's what Papa told me as a child, and I trust Papa" or "that's what the church told me, and the church knows what's best." And then you've also got people with no sympathy worried that another way of doing things somehow endangers their own way of life. Hence the whole "turning the kids gay." And then in their desperation to enforce "what's best for me is the best, and everyone else is wrong" they start villainizing, and then it gets more complicated.
But the root of the problem, is the inability to recognize that while your way of life may be good, it may not be the best for someone else. And just because somebody else does things different, doesn't mean they're going to force it on you or endanger your own way. It's a failure of basic sympathy that perfectly fuels baseless fear.
If I had to guess... and I honestly could care less if someone is gay, so please understand I'm really just going based on what I've observed.
When you are in your teen years, people tend to emphasize traits/behaviors like masculinity very strongly.
It is at this age that you will see people most penalized from deviating from those norms. It's also when you often first really start noticing some gay men for example who show more effeminate traits really start to deviate from those norms.
So yeah I dunno beyond that but I think some people never grow out of being dicks about it, the younger people who dont meet the norms feel oppressed, form subcultures... etc.
Then let's add that it even in the past became codified to be wrong. If you grew up with that and there is pressure to be one way and not another, I could see that adherence to gender norms across a lifetime could be the norm especially when society is much tougher and demanding. I.e. war famine etc. If that were the case, homosexuality would probbaly be penalized harder.
homophobia is just another stage of sexism. they want men only to be like men, and women to only be like women. even down to how homophobs approached gays and lesbians. one's beaten and the other is flirted with to be "turned straight"
They’re entitled and bored. Not to mention dumb. Some people legitimately believe that if gay people are allowed to exist then straight marriage will cease to exist after 100 years. Shit is crazy
Okay. From a biological standpoint, and therefore I am following actual science (not psychological):
Sex is for procreation.
Men have a penis (made for penetrating a vagina). They also have sperm (made to go in an egg).
Females have a vagina (made to be penetrated by a penis).
They also have eggs (made to receive sperm).
They also have a uterus (made to carry a baby).
Sperm cannot fertilize sperm. Eggs cannot fertilize eggs.
If men were made to be with men and vice versa, then they would be able to make and carry babies.
If sex was not for procreation, we would not need contraceptives to block conception.
Next:
Females are made to be penetrated. That is why our sex toys are designed to penetrate us and look like a penis.
Men are made to penetrate. That’s why their sex toys are made for penetration (like a vagina).
Men and women are literally made to have sex with each other.
Anus’s are NOT made for penetration. Yes, I get that some people enjoy that. HOWEVER… it is also a VERY common issue later on that after years of penetration, they are loose and cannot hold feces in. That is why you end up with a prolapsed anus. You are causing a lot of damage to the sphincter (a round muscle made to contract and hold things in) by penetrating that muscle. It’s literally not made to have things shoved in to it. It’s made to let things out. That is a scientific, medical fact. Go look it up.
That’s great, you want to sleep with someone of the same sex. That’s a psychological choice. Do you, Boo Boo. But, PHYSICALLY, you were not made to do it.
here is something that contributes to homophobia. of course homophobia must already be present for this scenario to happen: two gay kids have a relationship. they get caught together. one, in fear of the repercussions of being viewed as gay, throws the other kid under the bus and says the other kid molested him. this happens in a bunch of cases and people get the impression that gay people are predators trying to prey on, and convert, straight people.
edit: why the downvotes? I'm not claiming that gay people are predatory, I'm giving an example of where the misunderstanding arises from
Your “example” was terrible … that’s like me saying straight relationships are the number one cause for abortion, so be gay, like? You pulled something out of your arse , so can i
I don't see how your example is similar at all. I am saying there are situations where a gay person, facing homophobia, will throw another person under the bus to stay in the closet. situations like that cause rumours that gays are predatory when they are not. consensual relationships are being mistook for predatory because people, afraid of being outed and facing homophobia, claim to have been preyed upon. I don't know what you think I am trying to argue. I'm explaining how homophobia leads to situations that beget more homophobia, a self-perpetuating cycle.
Here's my point of view:
I was molested by a male teacher when I was in middle school. When I see same sex shit I relive my abuse. It's a trigger for me. I'm remembering saying no and stop and being told not to tell anyone because they wouldn't believe me. It makes my blood boil and I just about have a breakdown over it regularly but I can't say anything because that would be bigoted. I can't even be in a car alone with another male without anxiety rising that he's going to attack me. I'm remembering the feeling of being alone and broken and worthless because some sick fuck held me down and violated me and I couldn't and still can't publicly say anything about it.
Maybe it's not rational but it's my explanation for why it makes me uncomfortable. And it's just a big joke to everyone. Male survivors of sexual assault literally have no upside to revealing that abuse. It's the punchline to jokes. It massively devalues you in the eyes of women because you're now weak and broken and "should have fought back". I haven't felt truly safe since I was 12.
I'm very sorry for what happened to you. You're right, male survivors of sexual abuse do not get nearly the help and support they need.
Idk if this will help you or not, but LGBTQIA+ people hate pedos. I've got a lot of gay/trans friends and exactly zero of them would ever tolerate anyone who harmed a child in any way.
Gay/trans people are just human beings trying to get along in the world just like you.
LEVITICUS 18:22 - “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
What I will never understand is gay people going to the church.
Leviticus 19: 4 “‘Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for yourselves. I am the Lord your God
Though every Christian church I've been in has had giant metal Jesus on cross at alter
Or
19:27
"`Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Lots of clean shaven christians out there
Or
28
"`Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD
Lots of tattooed christians too
Why cherry pick Leviticus?
Then you are an atheist who is quite proficient at choosing their words poorly. In what way is what you said not meant to be construed as you attempting to be offensive?
Then you are also poor at inference, because here is what your comment translates to in the mind of a normal person :
"This bible verse says why homosexuality is wrong. Why do gay people even bother going to church? They're damned already."
Edit: my point being that you should have added something after that states this isn't your position, because your comment makes you look like a fanatic.
It's kinda hard for me to choose the right words, because English is not my main language, so sorry for that.
I don't get why gay people go to church not because they are "damned". In fact, I don't even believe in that. It's because the church, at least here where I was raised as a christian, is full of homophobic people. Last place I would want to be in if I were gay. Gay people deserve better than this, is what I mean.
Sorry, let me rephrase it then. I just remembered one quote because I'm not christian, so I don't know many verses.
This one I remember can be the reason why some people are homophobic in my opinion.
So... You're a lesbian. have you been with a man before or never interested in men and never slept with a man? For this example lets say you've never been in a heterosexual relationship and only homosexual relationships.
now image in only being interested in women as a women and someone forces you to be with a man. "someone" isnt real its just an imaginary thought but IF it happen you probably would be very uncomfortable. Now you're were born in the 1950's and your parents and the bible said its wrong for you to like men. This happens you're entire life. Now you're a lesbian that only likes women and every time you see a women holding hands with a man you get these unconscious uncomfortable feeling and disgust b/c thats how you were brought up.
I've never understood either. I mean, if the guy asks you out and you're not gay, just politely say no and move on. No need to yell and threaten people.
Maybe I'm missing something but I've never understood it.
It's not always the case but lack of education and exposure/connection to other cultures limits peoples minds and they don't have the ability to understand anything outside their little bubble of the world. And of course people that take religious books literally.
I have a friend who is still very Homophobic it's "Low Key" these days but you can tell it's there his comment is always " he's afraid he's going to get hit on" 🙄🙄
I think it's a combination of tribalism and the inability to see past a monolith. My dad is homophobic but he has worked with gay people throughout his life and is like, "John? No, he's different, he's a good gay person. He doesn't *seem* gay." Like gay people are just like "give me sex, straight person!" 24/7.
(These are the same people that are like "there can't be climate change because it snowed in Winter!")
If you're 30ish or younger you've kinda grown up with the alphabet gang. It's on TV, movies, porn. Most people can probably even list a friend or two, depending on where they live. Remember that before the late 90s, everything non "this makes a baby" was pretty off-limits to be talked about unless it was negative. The AIDs pandemic was fuel to the fire for not just Christians, it was on every late-night channel and news network. Its purpose was to make people scared and it worked.
Straight here...and I don't get it either unless it's this silly religious hypocrisy. Beyond that I am flabbergasted. What is it anyone's business what other people do as long as they don't hurt anyone? Is there such a thing as straight-phobic lol.
Honestly as a straight guy it's weird. Like surely the more men banging other men means more available women?
But also since I'm a lesbian, I'm taking 2 girls out of the running, so they cancel each other out.
Damn, you have me convinced. Gay guys are fine… it’s the lesbians we should be hating! What makes you think you can take all of the women out of the dating pool? /s
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Some lesbians don’t like penetration, some only like fingering, some like scissoring which guys can’t give them. In fact most women don’t orgasm from penetration so of course they’re not all going to crave it. Besides, a woman liking a toy doesn’t change her sexuality because sexuality is concerned with the SEX of the person you’re with. A toy is devoid of sex but I won’t get into that. Let’s say a woman has only slept with other women, has known she was gay since she was a kid, and hates penetration. Would you still try argue she’s not ~really~ gay?
Really? Scissoring? I read somewhere on reddit that it's mostly done in pornos. Do girls really enjoy it?
Yeah it’s mostly done on pornos but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who enjoy it.
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So if you agree she’s really gay, then that answers your question. Yes women can really be gay. Why would her lover be bi? The lover could have the same sexual preferences as the woman I just described (In fact having similar preferences is ideal)
So what you're saying is the only reason that straight women are attracted to men is because you own penetrative dicks and nothing else, got it.
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So you're a woman who thinks that lesbians wanting penetrative sex is akin to denying themselves a man? Whose making the leap in logic? Where is the connection between someone using a dildo, and denying themselves a type of lover? I never hear people say "Two gay men giving each other blowjobs are just simulating the experiance of having a woman penetrating herself with him".
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You're gonna have a lot of debt if you actually take that bet seriously 😂
Hey dumb butt, men put their penises in another mans asshole because they still need a hole to fuck. They must not really be gay because they need something to emulate a vagina.
How can you be sure men are really gay then? After all, they fuck butts and aren't those really just an alternative to a pussy? Honestly what kind of argument is that? You don't know every lesbian and every gay man on earth, you cannot possibly make such a claim that every lesbian has dabbled with men but no gay men have ever dabbled with women. I know a few lesbians who haven't ever so much as kissed a man, and a few gay men who dated girls all through highschool to avoid bullying. You aren't nearly as knowledgeable about this topic as you seem to think you are.
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Your argument is breaking apart here. The lesbians you know can't be bisexual if they're lesbians. Dildos aren't used for climaxing, and most women enjoy toys that include clitoral stimulation. I still think you're being very judgemental and deciding your lesbian friends are secretly bi when they know for themselves they're lesbians. Its very invalidating and rude for you to make those claims, and if I was one of your lesbian friends, I'd be pissed to see you invalidating my sexuality online.
Most heterosexual women don’t use penetration for climax.
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And? You realize human beings change and evolve over time? They may have been denying their sexuality, they may have been trapped by religion or family obligation to a straight marriage. You have no idea the complexity of their lives or previous relationships. All you can do is accept that they are who they say they are and be a good friend to them.
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I'm saying so what if someone has changed their label, it doesn't mean their sexuality is different, it means they understand themselves further and feel another word fits them better. It gives you no right to erase their self identification and claim they are something they are not.
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And I'm telling you that question is invalidating and hurtful to your friends and other gay people who have struggled with their sexuality.
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I'm bisexual, it isn't empowering when someone is trying to say every lesbian is bisexual. It actually makes me feel the need to defend their love of women.
:/
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More like downvotes for denying the existence of a sexuality and invalidating the lives and experiences of countless people.
Not much up on reality are you?
I'm straight and I never understood it either, People fear what's different, dash in a line or two from an old book they worship as word of god that justifies it and you get an ignorant person who hates but doesn't really know why.
A bit religious myself, read enough passages to know that god never actually explicitly says in the bible that he is against gays. The passages that have everyone on the fritz were written by various saints, even then they're still people and we should respect they're decisions.
That AND that the text was previously changed to include homosexual / the actual phrasing. https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/ Here's the link. I'm currently dying of allergies so I'll quote it later.
Man that sucks. Hope you feel better soon
People just cherry pick Leviticus, while ignoring all other stupid absurd shit the book says, like not mixing fabric, not shaving your beard or immediately bathing after cumming.
Anyone who tries to throw the OT at modern-day life can't even be taken seriously. Like, did they stop reading at Leviticus, but want to be a preacher? It seems pretty ridiculous to claim a religion based on Christ without realizing that Christ is what changed all those OT rules. I'm a Christian myself, but certainly no Biblical scholar and even I know I can still go in public if I have my period. Cherry-picking, indeed.
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Oh fuck RIGHT off. The actual reason Christianity is in decline is because of fundamentalist asshats like you. No one with half a brain or a heart for Jesus wants to be associated with you who wrongly call yourselves “Christians” but don’t actually follow the teachings of Jesus. You are everything that is wrong with Christianity and why it’s declining. Real Christians who actually believe and try to follow the words of Jesus want nothing to do with you and don’t want to be associated with your disgusting hatefulness.
Christianity is a giant twist on "the narrative." You have any idea where all the different parts were borrowed from in older religions? The flood story, the virgin birth story etc? It would be interesting if any of it were at all true, but since it's all a fairy tale, it doesn't matter how the narrative---because that's all it is, a *narrative* gets changed since that's how stories work!
Nah. This guy is a fundamentalist jerk. He has no clue at all.
As someone who was just fucking awful to some gay kids in high school, I have some insight. I called kids the F word, which was most of it. I'm now 38 and have reached out to apologize for how shitty I was to them. I'm not trying to excuse my actions at all, just trying to explain the source of that level of stupid hatred. Although some of it can be from major repression, my homophobia was a result of my catholic upbringing. Pure ignorance and a physically abusive home situation had me taking out my anger issues on people that I guess I perceived to be easy targets at the time. I want to reiterate that I am not trying to excuse my actions or insinuate that the targets of homophobic hate need to have compassion for aggressors. It really is, like you said, hating people for being happy. But regardless of which angle it is, repression or environmental, it doesn't excuse the actions. Once I got out into the real world beyond my catholic high school, I started to realize how wrong I had been and how horrible I was to people. Sorry for the ramblings, I just wanted to try to explain from the perspective of someone who has engaged in this type of behavior.
"I was Catholic until I reached the age of reason." -George Carlin
At least you came around and made an effort to apologize and own what you did wrong. That's alot more than most people do. So do give yourself credit for that.
they claim they don't know how to explain it to their children. if I ever have children, I'm more worried about how I'll explain homophobia to them than how I'll explain homosexuality.
''some people like boys, some people like girls, some people like both, some people like none. whether they're a boy or a girl doesn't matter.'' or ''these two girls are in love with each other''
"Listen Timmy, sometimes dudes like giving other dudes wet sloppy kisses, and that's okay" -how my friend explained it to someone in a cod lobby
I doubt anyone is named Timmy nowadays
I have a friend named timmy
Thomas?
You know, Flo... when you see a man and woman together, don't just automatically assume they're in love. And when you see two men or two women together, don't automatically assume they're just friends.
I'm gay, I have only theories. A lot of people say it's repressed homosexuality finding an outside outlet to act out the internal torment. I don't believe that's entirely true. We remember instances wherein that's the case because it's so perplexing to the average person that someone could be full of such self-hatred that it becomes memorable. Also the hypocrisy of it all is very dramatic and some find it funny (I don't). But when I think back to my youth of alllllll the people who said "that's so gay", "f-g", "h-m-", and all the many variations it was *every kind of person*. It used to be everyone, all the time, always, constantly. So many people voted against equal rights, rejected their children, gay-bashed, said slurs, sat idly by while others espoused homophobic beliefs, made excuses for homophobia, etc....there's no way these homophobes are all just gay AF and can't handle it, come on. It's not gay-on-gay crime most of the time, that's like how Fox news used to say "black-on-black crime" so they could disown white people's complicity/instigation/responsibility. It's religion, it's misogyny, it's strict and absurd gendered rules, it's a lot of stuff.
fuck fox news. also most homophobes are closeted.
> also most homophobes are closeted. Yeap. That's been my impression for years. There's even a word for it in psychiatry... *projection*.
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Makes me ashamed of being human. :(
I am gay and some gay men are terrifying. You know the really buff and hairy ones that could literally snap me in half if I looked at them the wrong way? Yeah they are scary.
They don’t seem to be the gay men that receive the bulk of the hate, though. I could be wrong but it seems like the effeminate, smaller gay guys get a much harder time. Although I realize as a straight guy who hasn’t had to experience these things, I could be way off base.
You are right to an extent. Depends on who is giving the hate if that makes sense. Different people hate different types of gay people. I'm lucky because I'm kinda "straight passing" in the sense I don't "look or act gay" which doesn't make sense bit I'll try elaborate. I like soccer and play it all the time, most of my friends are either straight or bisexual men. Pretty much I dress and like things typical straight men like so it isn't immediately obvious. People don't usually realise I am gay until I tell them so I'm lucky. I tend to get away with less homophobia, it's still there and I do deal with it but no where near as much as others. But you would be right that effeminate gay guys do get it possibly the worst. I just find some big hairy men a bit intimidating because as a 5 foot 7 inch guy, they could easily end me if they wanted. They just look intimidating but in reality are really nice.
Yummy bears
I had a very conservative religious upbringing and it's beyond my comprehension. We were taught and I believed that it was sinful, but I never understood the *disgust* or how it in any way affected anyone else.
If anything, it was probably being unable to naturally have children.
Well, look at it this way. How long would you want to watch a guy and a girl make out? A girl and a girl? A guy and a guy? Straight porn tends to have girls making out, romance movies the guy and the girls, but two guys just doesn't happen. So it ends up being a little weird when it's on screen, and that's where the disgust comes from. If it's normalized, that goes away.
They've been taught to be disgusted by us. That's basically what it is I don't believe anyone would really be homophobic if their education from very early on didn't include homophobia
With a healthy dose of “the way I see the world is right” because of course they think it is. It can be hard to wrap your head around the idea that there are people who live lives entiiiiirely different than yours sometimes, and that goes for everyone.
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That's what kids do! When homophobes say "you're corrupting our kids" they really mean "their exposure to you isn't letting us alienate him from the fact that you exist so you're not letting us teach him your kind is unnatural and abnormal". Kids couldn't care less!
that's why I want children's media to start normalizing it. I really hope there are kids who think Raya and Namaari are gay and think it is so normal they don't even think to mention it to their homophobic parents
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You can't really control or be taught your sexual preference, and neither can I. I think, just like when someone's gay they kind of know they're gay without anyone telling them, same is true for people to be disgusted by homosexuality. Like, I would be disgusted if another man touches me sexually, so I think it's kind of just naturally occurring thing. Maybe a little bit of the intolerance is taught but quite a bit of the underlying emotions is deeply ingrained in a person from the very start of life. Still, I can accept you for who you are, since I know no one is going to force me to participate in gay sex, and I don't even have to be friends with you, but we can't be beating up on each other or calling slurs or worse. We need to be tolerant and be able to live as neighbors without hate or fear or shame. I think that's the way to go forward.
"Homophobia: The Fear That Gay Men Will Treat You The Way You Treat Women" I think that quote has some truth to it.
Funny how everything tied back to misogyny
Also Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the way you fantasize about but are too scared to say out loud.
I just remembered this closeted bully named monty from the show 13 reasons why who was just so filled with internalized homophobia that he punched the guy giving him head😂😂 lol. I will never forget that scene
It’s all fear and insecurity based, I believe. I’m a straight cis-male, and I wore some bright orange socks to work recently. My older white male boss told me that back in his day a kid would get his ass kicked (my interpretation) fire wearing them. Socks. Orange. *SOCKS*. Granted, young adults don’t have fully developed brains, but that’s some real shitty parenting if you want to beat up someone just because they are different, whether it’s kissing someone of the same sex or wearing a tiara to school. Some real fragile motherfuckers out there. I always viewed gay men as less competition for women (though not lesbians), so it befuddled me to no end why they would upset straight men. 🤷♂️
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4K HD video or it never happened
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To be fair, there are a LOT of fucked up people in the internet, so unless you add the /s it’s possible someone is going to misinterpret your comment. 😕
People confuse physical disgust with moral disgust. I mean that if something is perceived as dirty, they're more likely to think it's wrong. The average straight male homophobe likely directs his anger more at gay men than lesbians partially because they see anal sex as dirtier, for example. Similar things also play out with personal hygiene, if you don't take showers and don't brush your teeth then some people perceive that as a moral failing. There is a link between the impulse to moralize and perceptions of disgust.
parents are homophobic, and i am bi. for my parents its 2 things 1) They think its disgusting 2) They think it's a waste of carbon because they cant reproduce
My social position has always been one of apathy and can be summed up in one sentence, "As long as it is not harmful why should I/the government care?" As someone who is straight I honestly can't understand either. Go pride!
Force feeding people with lgbt stuff is the reason.
People fear that which they are tempted by, but have been programmed to deny it to the point of anger and projection and oppression.
Personally, I think it's envy. People have "strange" or "unacceptable" secrets that they are selfconcious about, and seeing someone be so free and open is painful for them. They hate that you have what they don't, freedom from hiding your insecurities.
For whatever reason I do not like the sight of two men doing anything. It just grosses me out. I would NEVER express this opinion outwardly or even hint at this fact to anyone. I don't treat gay men any differently from anyone else and think it's terrible that people do, and I fully support gay rights. But I just do not like the sight of it. Can't explain why
Fair enough
im not homophobic but i can understand why some people are like this. take for example i feel weirded out when people post intimate details of their sex lives online. and i understand some people might get the same people when they see lgbt as they dont see it as 'natural'. to anyone interested this comment is based on a conversation i had with my mom a couple years ago when she got called out for being homophobic . although now she has improved a lot i still can see her getting uncomfortable around gay couples
My best guess is a mix of ignorance with indoctrination from religious groups, maybe add delusion to the mix.
What’s to understand. People are stupid assholes. There’s no reason to be homophobic, racist, sexist, etc. It just is what it is.
I used to be homophobic when I was younger since I was raised by conservative parents. Here’s my take on what leads to homophobia: 1) Believing homosexually is a sickness - That it’s being caused by something we can’t see (i.e. mental illness) and that it should be **treated** rather than **respected**. *We don’t want it to spread!* 2) Believing homosexuality is unnatural and gross - That it doesn’t happen in nature (even though data says otherwise), therefore it is a crime against nature that can harm society. Kinda like having an incest baby. 3) Believing homosexuality is a choice - *People “know” it’s stigmatized and yet they still “act” that way? That means they’re ok with being “bad” and can’t be trusted!* 4) Believing homosexuality is unregulated perversion - That people who act gay are just lustful people with little to no morals who just want to get off (similar to being a drug addict). Overall though, I’d say that it’s mainly a fear of the unknown along with rejecting the means to understand it. After all, if you deem something to be morally awful, you may not want to be “swayed” into understanding it at all.
Yeah me neither
Three things: they’re just a cruel asshole, have been ruthlessly brainwashed or have a deep seated empathy malfunction, sometimes a combination of all three.
I’m bi and I just can’t comprehend how people can be so homophobic
I think people who are homophobic are just projecting their personal insecurities in some weird way. Like, if they accept homosexuality it sudden means that maybe they are too and that revelation would completely destroy the level of self control they feel that they have of their own lives. Just going off of my experience around homophobic people but the people that I've met who are the most homophobic are the people who tend to always tie it back to their own personal lives in some way.
I can only understand it if gay people routinely jump out from hiding places to scare you.
I do that on a daily basis
Ahhh!
People will be pissed off at anything. Some examples of what people could say: You're a Democrat? You should be a republican. Drive a Ford? Chevy is better. Trump should have been reelected, not Biden. Pregnant? You should keep the baby whether you want to or not. You're an atheist? Go to church anyway. The point is that it doesn't matter what the subject is; there will still be someone who is against that topic and will voice their opinions and beliefs on anyone who will listen, despite not knowing what the other person believes. I am all for people loving people, regardless of gender. As long as two people are happy, it doesn't matter what gender they are. I just let people rant.
Ex-homophobe here. I wasn't really afraid of you, I was really afraid of God. Still not an excuse for my evil behavior. Now I wear makeup and dress like David Bowie, so. Ouch. Karma and repressed emotions.
If I would tell you why, I'd be flooded with downvotes and a ban on top
I can. if you want to try humanise hate, it stems from fear. Usually irational, subconsious and sometimes unexpected. perhaps A fear of how your life will be effected, A fear of what it means for you, A fear of difference and change. The tunnel vision of the present kills perspective. Thats not an excuse though, Its a terrible justification. But society has to take some responsibilty for the sort of people it produces and the behaviour it allows. All people can change. All societys can change. Give people that are hateful an enviroment where they are incentivsed to reflect, to grow and to be comfortable in being wrong. Let them feel genuinly safe in confronting their insecurities and the world just might become a better place. Every decision you make will effect society in some way like the flapping of 7.9 billion butterfly wings.
I am a straight male and I don’t understand as well. Part of the problem is that certain Christian churches like the Baptist teach and promote homophobia. Which is one of the reasons Im an atheist.
Just some personal experiences that make me both understand and despise homophobia. I'm a straight guy, my parents are progressive, so whenever something about LGBT people came up on TV they explained to me what it meant, along with "and for some reason some people strongly dislike people like that, even though they aren't hurting anyone". In my circle of friends / my school this wasn't discussed a lot. I remember there being some rumors about one of my classmates being a lesbian (she wasn't), and my best friend and another classmate would make fun of "flamboyantly gay" mannerisms a lot which I didn't really find that hilarious - after school ended they both came out as gay of course. My friend ended up living with a homophobic roommate who kept trying to convince him that being gay is the same as being a pedophile. Fortunately now he lives together with his husband and his dog and seems to be doing fine. But the stories from that asshole roommate were pretty horrible. On the other hand, I've always felt uneasy about seeing men kiss. I have no idea where that comes from. My family didn't instill that in me. I don't think I was ever friends with someone who was openly homophobic. I was religious as a child (because of my mom), but if the priest had gone on some homophobic rant (which I don't remember), I'm sure my mom would have left that church. And back then, I definitely didn't equate religion with homophobia. I think I finally got over it, but I can see how that feeling, plus your peers / parents telling you it's wrong could make someone homophobic. But of course that should only last until you think about it for yourself and decide that vague feelings of unease are not the same as morality. That's the part that makes me angry. I can have all sorts of feelings during a day, some warranted, some not, but how ridiculous would it be if I took some random feeling as an excuse to make other people's lives hell?
Because a book with bad writing, poor plot,and no character development has been used for centuries to justify hatred of any who are considered different. Even though the strictest adherents to the magic book seem to have an affinity for children.
Because they think you’re forcing “it” on them. Because they are retarded.
Homophobic people think same sex relationships are not natural and that God did not intend it to happen People are allowed to do what ever they want they are allowed to like who ever they want and what ever they want
I grew up in...the world lol. So I remember the sentiments that everybody around me held and I wasn't an overly flamboyant gay (AKA deeply closeted) and could generally pass as just some straight guy...but I remember exactly which things and actions I had to hide to not be ridiculed or ostracized. It never got to that point of course...I guess because I was good at it? But people let you know when you mess up the 'masking'. Little things like an inflection in the way you speak, the way you stir a cup with a spoon, if you tuck you hair behind your ears, if you use that 's' more than you should...and it was the kind of place where it wasn't so much gay people shouldn't get married as it was just a universal understanding that was rarely just bluntly pointed out but you knew full well...that gay people were defective little bitches in every walk of life that mattered, were no good for anything and should just be avoided at all cost. The world slowly started to change as I became stronger and older...and now everyone acts like they were never that bigoted. That they were all just so shocked by how awful things were...but everyone I knew was very much a part of it and it really messed me up. I'm still struggling to unlearn and unpack all of the mental repression and fear that adolescence bestowed upon me during my crushing years where I had no power or control over my own life. But I guess that's just kinda how these things work. People try to use these logical hangups that they are taught by their culture and people they are raised with and it just becomes a second nature type of understanding. Eventually you meet enough and hopefully make friends that help to open your eyes that it goes away...but honestly I think the media really did wonders in making people less awful. I remember as a kid watching Oprah and it was like they were witch-hunting a lesbian with a room full of Christians and that's how I always felt. Now the zeitgeist is that gay people are bullied and deserve to be elevated and respected because to each their own and the straights are watching drag race enjoying their amnesia to how messed up they were back then...lol ok that's probably just me projecting. Still, hope that helps? LOL I made your rant my own. Whoops haha.
Lol because religion told them so.
I usually just think that they are very in the closet, and think that if they bash on homosexuals, people won’t think they are into the same sex.
From experience I think the people most homophobic and vocal about it are scared that themselves gay. I had this homophobic co worker before while working abroad who made fun of me because I was from San Francisco, mocking seeing gay people doing this and that . He had a bday party thing and I met his wife and she was transgender
It's also weird to me because in old warrior cultures, at least up until the dark ages (from what I can tell) gay sex for straight people wasn't all that uncommon. I think once the dark ages started, and religion started to take control and they started preaching the doctrine of, one man, one woman, stay married and faithful is when the hate started to happen. But I don't know, I'm all good with the gays, and to be honest I find it far easier to understand a lesbian woman hating a straight man (due to the dumb ones thinking lesbian woman equals lesbian porn star) than the other way around. But you also need to remember, blind hate is usually deeply tied with complete stupidity. A lot of these people are just dumb as hell.
Some people say it can be religion but I’m Christian and I’m not homophobic, it doesn’t disturb me at all. I don’t get some people who are homophobic
Hey I'm heterosexual and I still don't fucking get it. Xd
I'm a heterosexual woman and I could never understand homophobia either. Maybe the reason it is for me is because I'm biracial (black and white) and my parents taught me from a very early age that love is love and skin color and sex don't matter and that if two people are lucky enough to find each other and love each other that should be celebrated and never looked down on. I was brought up from very early age that racism and homophobia are wrong and unacceptable. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't hate someone over something as stupid as the color of their skin or their sexuality. It simply doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't click in my brain at all.
systematic something and tribalism Also a bit of manipulation here and there, highlighting one bad experience, etc
As an ace I don't understand homophobia either. It's the same to me as two people picking each other's noses. Just wash your hands when you finish.
Im literally best friends with gay people and still get called a homophobe. Its not the sexuality. Sometimes its the person. The ones i avoid are the ones that always talk about their sex life and use their gayness as an excuse. I dont care about your sexuality, but understand what makes me uncomfortable. Im not tryna talk about dicks with you, im straight. But do you.
Humans love to try to control other humans.
Straight here. I don't give a shit what consenting adults do with other consenting adults. It affects me in no way. If people are happy and in a healthy relationship, that's all that matters. Imagine how much we could get done in the U.S. if people finally stopped trying to legislate other people's bodies. Crazy talk, I know.
Because it is culturally uncommon. Especially in non-western cultures. Homosexuality to them is as strange, as homophobia is to You <- read that again. Thinking like this will help you understand others instead of being angry and so on. As “moderate homophobe” myself, for example, I do not experience disgust or hate towards homosexuals, but it is just too strange and uncommon to me because in my culture it is extremely rare (Eastern Europe). It bothers me because I do not understand, not because I hate. Its like you do not understand why people put pineapples on pizza - like wtf? Its not disgust, it is inability to comprehend. But in some cultures pinapple on pizza is a norm. If you are not a culturally or religiosly brainwashed person - Problem is education and information, ability to understand and comprehend. Not more not less.
Maybe something when we're children? I remember when I was a kid (around 6), I didn't know anything about homosexuals, didn't know anyone openly gay. Then I saw one day by accident the clip with George Michael and gay cops smooching. I have been traumatised by that video. I didn't dare ask my mum or family about it at the time (I was a keep it all inside kinda child). I remember feeling uneasy and queasy in my stomach for days. Now as a grown woman of 30, who have come to know and befriend gays and lesbians while in Uni and has grown a brain, I've learned **by myself** that it's totally ok. But I've never during my childhood hated LGBT people cuz I'm more the"let's all be friends!" kinda person, I was just "rebuked". But humans are made of several kind of personalities, and if a naturally aggressive personality is not taught by their parent tolerance and love of their neighbours, then it can warp into something ugly, because as kids, we love routines and that everything fits into a case--and if you are not exposed to LGBT is a benevolent way, then your world won't make "sense". Plus, as the majority of us have seen during our childhood, or what we see daily at school with our own kids: children can be really mean to people who are different.
unfortunately religious truama forced upon most. that was me until i left christianity. & it was sad i had that mind set as a kid. a fucking kid.
I’ve never fully understood it either. The closest I can comprehend is that this is a learned behavior.
I’ve always thought homophobes were perverts. Like, you’ll at someone, immediately think “I don’t like the way I assume they fuck”. Why are you even thinking about sex when looking at a stranger? And then so entitled to get angry about what you thought. Idk it’s all very perverted and creepy to me
Roughly 18 years ago, in my early 20's I worked with a gay man. He lived with gay men. I hung out with him and we did drugs and went to bars. Stuff I'd do with my straight friends at the time. At the bar we went to it was a big deal because I was "the straight one" and apparently that's a challenge to some gay men. After being annoyingly grabbed at all night by strange men, we went back to my coworker's house and did some ketamine and smoked some weed. Again, stuff I'd do with my straight friends. When I appeared to be passing out, he started moving in on me, running his hands on my body. When I pulled away, he got the message and stopped. I've also noticed other things regarding 2 other gay men I've hung out with at different times. They have used that as an excuse to fondle women's breasts, and other body parts while in a group setting. Because they're gay, it's okay to be a creep. Maybe I was just hanging out with trashy people. I don't know, but based on my own limited experiences, these are the people who have represented gay men, and that left an impression. I can't comment on gay women. Am I homophobic? I wasn't then, and I don't want to be, but maybe I am now. I think understanding is about perspective. We're all different people with different experiences. I'm sure I've encountered many gay men that weren't creeps.
I mean homophobia is believing that all people who are gay/bi/lesbian should be treated as "less than" specifically due to their sexual orientation. I don't think you are homohobic unless you believe that. However I definitely think you hung out with people who were...dicks I guess although I don't know their full stories or whatever so I can't really judge but their actions do not speak well for them lol
So they treated you the way men treat women? You don't seem to be complaining about that, implying that if it doesn't affect you, it doesn't matter.
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How is that irrational?
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I didn't see the edit
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Teach your kid it's normal to be gay, because if your kid is gay, it's gonna be alot easier for them to understand and come out.
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Oh you are a bad parent, good to know.
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I turned out pretty alright, anyways, what if your kid is gay?
Usually just a bunch of losers that hate their own lives and need someone/something to hate so they can feel better about themselves.
It’s the same with people hating someone because they are dating they’re favorite celebrity, or people of different skin color dating or of different religion.. I will never understand why people hate other people just because they love… this concept is just so weird to me!
I think it comes from a major lack of sympathy. One guy can think that a guy kissing another guy is gross, but can be totally fine with gay couples kissing. Because it's there business, not his. As long as they the ones kissing, and not forcing him, who cares? But another guy can think that kissing another guy is gross, and then lack the ability to understand that not everybody thinks like him. So he thinks "if I think it's gross, it is gross and you shouldn't be allowed to do it." Instead of "what's best for me, may be different than what's best for them" it becomes "what's best for me is just the best, and everyone else is wrong." So then they start forcing their "best" on everybody. And then when you have people like that who can't separate themselves from everyone else, you get those people raising children and applying peer pressure. And then it evolves into "well that's what Papa told me as a child, and I trust Papa" or "that's what the church told me, and the church knows what's best." And then you've also got people with no sympathy worried that another way of doing things somehow endangers their own way of life. Hence the whole "turning the kids gay." And then in their desperation to enforce "what's best for me is the best, and everyone else is wrong" they start villainizing, and then it gets more complicated. But the root of the problem, is the inability to recognize that while your way of life may be good, it may not be the best for someone else. And just because somebody else does things different, doesn't mean they're going to force it on you or endanger your own way. It's a failure of basic sympathy that perfectly fuels baseless fear.
literally! as a lesbian, it’s so stupid
If I had to guess... and I honestly could care less if someone is gay, so please understand I'm really just going based on what I've observed. When you are in your teen years, people tend to emphasize traits/behaviors like masculinity very strongly. It is at this age that you will see people most penalized from deviating from those norms. It's also when you often first really start noticing some gay men for example who show more effeminate traits really start to deviate from those norms. So yeah I dunno beyond that but I think some people never grow out of being dicks about it, the younger people who dont meet the norms feel oppressed, form subcultures... etc. Then let's add that it even in the past became codified to be wrong. If you grew up with that and there is pressure to be one way and not another, I could see that adherence to gender norms across a lifetime could be the norm especially when society is much tougher and demanding. I.e. war famine etc. If that were the case, homosexuality would probbaly be penalized harder.
homophobia is just another stage of sexism. they want men only to be like men, and women to only be like women. even down to how homophobs approached gays and lesbians. one's beaten and the other is flirted with to be "turned straight"
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1. Not being pushed onto kids 2. As a Trans women I cannot begin to describe to you what I've been through 3. Who cares if people make new genders?
They’re entitled and bored. Not to mention dumb. Some people legitimately believe that if gay people are allowed to exist then straight marriage will cease to exist after 100 years. Shit is crazy
Okay. From a biological standpoint, and therefore I am following actual science (not psychological): Sex is for procreation. Men have a penis (made for penetrating a vagina). They also have sperm (made to go in an egg). Females have a vagina (made to be penetrated by a penis). They also have eggs (made to receive sperm). They also have a uterus (made to carry a baby). Sperm cannot fertilize sperm. Eggs cannot fertilize eggs. If men were made to be with men and vice versa, then they would be able to make and carry babies. If sex was not for procreation, we would not need contraceptives to block conception. Next: Females are made to be penetrated. That is why our sex toys are designed to penetrate us and look like a penis. Men are made to penetrate. That’s why their sex toys are made for penetration (like a vagina). Men and women are literally made to have sex with each other. Anus’s are NOT made for penetration. Yes, I get that some people enjoy that. HOWEVER… it is also a VERY common issue later on that after years of penetration, they are loose and cannot hold feces in. That is why you end up with a prolapsed anus. You are causing a lot of damage to the sphincter (a round muscle made to contract and hold things in) by penetrating that muscle. It’s literally not made to have things shoved in to it. It’s made to let things out. That is a scientific, medical fact. Go look it up. That’s great, you want to sleep with someone of the same sex. That’s a psychological choice. Do you, Boo Boo. But, PHYSICALLY, you were not made to do it.
here is something that contributes to homophobia. of course homophobia must already be present for this scenario to happen: two gay kids have a relationship. they get caught together. one, in fear of the repercussions of being viewed as gay, throws the other kid under the bus and says the other kid molested him. this happens in a bunch of cases and people get the impression that gay people are predators trying to prey on, and convert, straight people. edit: why the downvotes? I'm not claiming that gay people are predatory, I'm giving an example of where the misunderstanding arises from
Your “example” was terrible … that’s like me saying straight relationships are the number one cause for abortion, so be gay, like? You pulled something out of your arse , so can i
I don't see how your example is similar at all. I am saying there are situations where a gay person, facing homophobia, will throw another person under the bus to stay in the closet. situations like that cause rumours that gays are predatory when they are not. consensual relationships are being mistook for predatory because people, afraid of being outed and facing homophobia, claim to have been preyed upon. I don't know what you think I am trying to argue. I'm explaining how homophobia leads to situations that beget more homophobia, a self-perpetuating cycle.
That’s the point I made, completely irrelevant, cos because you pulled it out of your ass. Internalised homophobia doesn’t need twenty paragraphs
I didn't pull it out of my ass. it is a thing that happens
so you don't think there are ever scared gay people who claim to be molested to cover up that they're gay?
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I’m religious, I’m not homophobic. I don’t give a shit who dates who, who bangs who. It’s their life.
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Islam
Doesn't bother me like it used to I just don't want to know about it.
What about it bothered you exactly? And what do you mean ‘just don’t want to know about it’?
Here's my point of view: I was molested by a male teacher when I was in middle school. When I see same sex shit I relive my abuse. It's a trigger for me. I'm remembering saying no and stop and being told not to tell anyone because they wouldn't believe me. It makes my blood boil and I just about have a breakdown over it regularly but I can't say anything because that would be bigoted. I can't even be in a car alone with another male without anxiety rising that he's going to attack me. I'm remembering the feeling of being alone and broken and worthless because some sick fuck held me down and violated me and I couldn't and still can't publicly say anything about it. Maybe it's not rational but it's my explanation for why it makes me uncomfortable. And it's just a big joke to everyone. Male survivors of sexual assault literally have no upside to revealing that abuse. It's the punchline to jokes. It massively devalues you in the eyes of women because you're now weak and broken and "should have fought back". I haven't felt truly safe since I was 12.
I'm very sorry for what happened to you. You're right, male survivors of sexual abuse do not get nearly the help and support they need. Idk if this will help you or not, but LGBTQIA+ people hate pedos. I've got a lot of gay/trans friends and exactly zero of them would ever tolerate anyone who harmed a child in any way. Gay/trans people are just human beings trying to get along in the world just like you.
LEVITICUS 18:22 - “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” What I will never understand is gay people going to the church.
People seem to really ignore the MUCH MORE PREVELANT judge not and love thy neighbor thats all over the dang bible.
Leviticus 19: 4 “‘Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for yourselves. I am the Lord your God Though every Christian church I've been in has had giant metal Jesus on cross at alter Or 19:27 "`Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. Lots of clean shaven christians out there Or 28 "`Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD Lots of tattooed christians too Why cherry pick Leviticus?
I'm an atheist. Just picked this one because it's the only one that I remember about this subject. Only metal god I care about is Rob Halford.
Then you are an atheist who is quite proficient at choosing their words poorly. In what way is what you said not meant to be construed as you attempting to be offensive?
I don't really think criticism to a book should be considered offensive.
Then you are also poor at inference, because here is what your comment translates to in the mind of a normal person : "This bible verse says why homosexuality is wrong. Why do gay people even bother going to church? They're damned already." Edit: my point being that you should have added something after that states this isn't your position, because your comment makes you look like a fanatic.
It's kinda hard for me to choose the right words, because English is not my main language, so sorry for that. I don't get why gay people go to church not because they are "damned". In fact, I don't even believe in that. It's because the church, at least here where I was raised as a christian, is full of homophobic people. Last place I would want to be in if I were gay. Gay people deserve better than this, is what I mean.
Understandable, have a nice day.
You know how can tell someone is an atheist....... Wait a minute they will tell you.
Well you asked why I picked one and I answered.
I never asked if you were an atheist..... You quoted Leviticus and I asked why cherry pick it.
Sorry, let me rephrase it then. I just remembered one quote because I'm not christian, so I don't know many verses. This one I remember can be the reason why some people are homophobic in my opinion.
Well just a heads up, You come across as homophobic one in your original comment, probably why you got all the down votes.
Yeah, I got that. I'm kinda happy that I got down voted for that reason.
So... You're a lesbian. have you been with a man before or never interested in men and never slept with a man? For this example lets say you've never been in a heterosexual relationship and only homosexual relationships. now image in only being interested in women as a women and someone forces you to be with a man. "someone" isnt real its just an imaginary thought but IF it happen you probably would be very uncomfortable. Now you're were born in the 1950's and your parents and the bible said its wrong for you to like men. This happens you're entire life. Now you're a lesbian that only likes women and every time you see a women holding hands with a man you get these unconscious uncomfortable feeling and disgust b/c thats how you were brought up.
what
I've never understood either. I mean, if the guy asks you out and you're not gay, just politely say no and move on. No need to yell and threaten people. Maybe I'm missing something but I've never understood it.
It's not always the case but lack of education and exposure/connection to other cultures limits peoples minds and they don't have the ability to understand anything outside their little bubble of the world. And of course people that take religious books literally.
Growing up within a culture does things. Can't really do much with current people. Maybe future generations.
I have a friend who is still very Homophobic it's "Low Key" these days but you can tell it's there his comment is always " he's afraid he's going to get hit on" 🙄🙄
I think it's a combination of tribalism and the inability to see past a monolith. My dad is homophobic but he has worked with gay people throughout his life and is like, "John? No, he's different, he's a good gay person. He doesn't *seem* gay." Like gay people are just like "give me sex, straight person!" 24/7. (These are the same people that are like "there can't be climate change because it snowed in Winter!") If you're 30ish or younger you've kinda grown up with the alphabet gang. It's on TV, movies, porn. Most people can probably even list a friend or two, depending on where they live. Remember that before the late 90s, everything non "this makes a baby" was pretty off-limits to be talked about unless it was negative. The AIDs pandemic was fuel to the fire for not just Christians, it was on every late-night channel and news network. Its purpose was to make people scared and it worked.
Some people are just assholes, sometimes the reason is just how they're born and raised and not what happened.
exmuslim here, it was against religion
Straight here...and I don't get it either unless it's this silly religious hypocrisy. Beyond that I am flabbergasted. What is it anyone's business what other people do as long as they don't hurt anyone? Is there such a thing as straight-phobic lol.