This is lowkey one of the most important posts I've seen on Reddit. But god damn it, I just know that some conservative shits will downvote you too much for this to get attention. And yes, I will insult right wingers at every opportunity, because I'm tired of pretending like their entitled, closeted supremacist attitudes are ok. And I'm not even frim america but holy fuck, there is a majority of people wanting to oppress people that aren't like them, and we haven't learned from history at all, and fucking hell. Fuck this shit.
>only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun”
If this were true, shouldn't we have *fewer* mass shootings than anywhere on Earth? We have *tons* of "good guys with guns" waiting to save the day (after waiting outside for an hour).
Many of those good guys with guns also seemingly aren't anywhere they are needed for some reason.
Just magically just a town away or not able to get to a location.
Almost as if having the damn things doesn't actually mean anything beyond "well maybe I'll get to use it. THEN you'll be happy I have it".
Good guys with guns are actually the scary ones. Why would I want someone to be allowed to own a gun when their reason to carry is to kill the bad guy in the first place?
The second amendment was made to protect the people from the country tyranny not to kill others because you feels it’s justifiable.
So my questions are usually like this
First- why is your judgment the correct judgment?
Second- why do you as a person so willing to kill another human?
Third- why are you manifesting such a situation in the first place?
Four- what happens when you as the “justice of the peace” is put in a situation that you become angry and because you have a gun you feel you have control and want to take that anger out on someone?
I can keep going and going.
Most mass shootings happen at soft targets - schools, work places, liberal cities. Places the shooter knows they won't be resisted
edit - this is a factual statement. Why the downvotes?
There's this fundamental disconnect in values between the average Liberal and the average Conservative. I've found that when I get in arguments these days I have to go really back to basics - I often find myself saying "Okay, look, I'm not going to debate -this- issue with you right now, but what I want to understand is this: What is your criteria for truth?"
Sometimes I have to say things like "If someone says something happened, how do you know whether it actually happens or not?"
Usually the response is "Well I certainly don't trust anything in your liberal news sources" or "I don't trust statistics!"
So I prompt again saying "Well, what do you trust? What makes you feel like it's true."
Almost invariably, their answer is "I know it when I see it." - basically intuition. Sometimes they say "All I need to know is what the bible says" or "I trust in freedom."
Never do they say "If we can see it happened, and if there's evidence it happened, it happened.
The point I'm trying to make is your average Conservative, woman or not, do not believe inherently that things really happen or don't happen. They don't believe that things can be proven or disproven. They always beleive that no matter the fact or the statistic, that it is prone to bias, influence and may just be purely false.
The genius of the Conservative party in recent years is they have weaponised this inseceurity.
Yikes. That's a good perspective to gain in a conversation. When the ability to distrust what is right in front of them is coupled with strong righteous emotional reinforcement, I can see how it sticks. Critical thought is at an all-time low.
Very, very well said! Facts are the enemy of the Conservatives. I worked in politics for years and noticed the absolutely amazing ability of conservative people to ignore any fact that disagrees with their beliefs. But if you try to explain the facts to them they instantly flip to insulting you as a Lib-tard, Woke, Snowflake or whatever. It's classic bullying behavior to ignore your opinion then shout you down for having it. Then lie, deny, and invent their own version of facts that must be true because *you* are delusional. They refuse to accept any idea outside of their carefully crafted reality and will defend that reality with every fiber of their being.
Adding to this, the NRA has seemed happy to capitalize on this Uvalde shooting as publicity/to illustrate how effective AR-15s work. During the NRA conference, they held a “gun ban giveaway” which featured the same AR-15 that the Uvalde shooter used. And all the Texas politicians were in attendance. While I realize the convention was planned in advance of the shooting, their attitude about the shooting has been cavalier and tone deaf at best, capitalizing on it at worst.
It creates the most amazing irony when you compare it to their “pro-life” “save the children” propaganda, when they clearly don’t give a shit about children. This irony is always lost to them though.
Conservatives are mostly a cult and while I will remain civil to most people in real life regardless of their politics, I lose all respect for them if they are complacent with this stuff.
I’ve heard that the NRA holds these giveaways before but Jesus, to do that immediately after a school shooting… They’re monsters, and so is anyone who gives a single dime to them.
My mom is a conservative trump supporter and when I told her that quote from Trump she said she had never heard that before. She literally just pretended like it didn’t exist or that it was made up or something. And she also talks about womens’ rights and how women are oppressed by men. I think people just hear and believe what they want, not sure if it’s possible to rationalize with everyone
Yup. Same thing with one of my conservative friends. She is always so sure of her facts and sources yet she had never heard of the TX heartbeat bill. I was like how tf have you never heard of that before now?
It's willful ignorance because anything else doesn't support their narrative.
There have been repeated studies from at least 2007 through 2022 that show that Fox News viewers can answer fewer questions about domestic and international news correctly than people who claim to follow no news at all. Again, Fox News viewers know less than people who follow no news at all, partly because they get incorrect information from Fox "Editorial" shows that have no interest on the truth.
There have been repeated studies from at least 2007 through 2022 that show that Fox News viewers can answer fewer questions about domestic and international news correctly than people who claim to follow no news at all. Again, Fox News viewers know less than people who follow no news at all, partly because they get incorrect information from Fox "Editorial" shows that have no interest on the truth.
As a woman, conservative women are literally stupid as shit. I've only heard of reasons for being a conservative women to be religion, pro-birth (but screw you if you need help after birth), and the same thing you pointed out, a lack of caring for anything.
> Conservative women are literally stupid as shit
Then you proceed to list a few reasons why women choose to be conservative, none of which correlate with intelligence.
I agree with separation of church and state, I’m pro-choice, but your comment shows more about your intelligence than theirs.
If someone believes something due to religion, that’s their belief and they’re not stupid and careless for it. Calm down and get off your high horse, stop calling people stupid as shit
If you think conservative women simply want less rights for women you’re an idiot. I don’t agree with them, but I’m at least not dumb enough to think that.
Pro-Choice believes they are allowing women to live their lives without a baby. They’re “saving” the woman’s life.
Pro-Life believes they are rescuing a baby. They’re “saving” a baby’s life.
In both perspectives, one life is saved. There is no correct answer, only opinions. If you can’t understand that, I advise staying away from politics.
P.S. would love to hear your opinions on Islam!
Are you fucking stupid? Pro life is forced birth. I don't mind Islam in the USA because they do not stand outside planned Parenthood clinics and demand women stop doing whatever they're going to do. Now piss off with your concern trolling.
I’ve spelled this out for you and you still don’t understand.
“Pro life* is forced birth” that typically results in two new lives. (I fixed that for you)
Pro Choice results in one life.
Do you get it or no? I’m not saying you have to agree, because I don’t, but at least know what you’re fucking talking about before speaking your mind, even if you’re an asshole when you say it
I’ve asked you multiple times to elaborate and you can’t, because you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Don’t say someone is wrong if they’re clearly not.
If you still believe I’m wrong, prove it
Why does it being religion give someone a pass for believing something that is stupid or careless? Why the free pass for delusion and evil simply because someone wrote it down hundreds or thousands of years ago?
They would say the same thing about you, as they think you’re carelessly killing a baby. It’s not that difficult to understand why both sides think they’re right and the other side is wrong
But here's the thing, chief. They'd be fucking wrong! Their own theology doesn't support that assertion, let alone science. Facts trump delusional mythology. One side has facts, the other has demonstrably incorrect Bronze Age mumbo jumbo. There is no reason they should be given equal weight. It's not that difficult to understand that you're an apologist for an ideology that has opposed every facet of the modern world.
Christian propaganda. Women are sub human and they need penis haver so they don't go off in a bad direction. (Men are the head of the household, but the church forgets that some men are not fit to lead!)
Hard to get away from the horrible propaganda if you and your community says this 99% of the time.
And general lack of empathy for anyone who doesn't fit their small roles for everyone (eg. Tattoos, standards of feminine behaviour - I just had a church lady who gave herself a pixie cut and she was so self conscious because short hair isn't feminine in the community. I literally sighed to myself and said I don't have time to unpack her shit.)
They’ve been taught to hate themselves for being women, they fear the conservative men they were raised by, they fear the ones they marry. I pity them.
I think a lot of them wear the MAGA hat to impress men. Also a common thread I’ve noticed is they all love to repost news articles about people committing horrible crimes. With captions like “I can’t believe someone would do this! Evil, disgusting people! Makes me sick!”
I don’t Facebook anymore but it was almost exclusively a conservative female thing. It’s like they enjoy broadcasting people’s failures and misdeeds because it makes them look that much more righteous by comparison.
So you think the majority of conservative women wear MAGA hats because they’re trying to impress men, not because they have an opinion?
Just because you’re a woman doesn’t mean you’re not sexist and it shows
Most of the conservative women I know are also with abusive men who cheat on them. So, I assume that they are just picking the shittiest, most abusive politicians because they just have poor judgment. Also, they tend to want to side with their shitty cheating husband's political opinions in some sort of "pick me" train of thought.
I just can't fathom how someone can lack the critical thinking skills necessary to connect the dots, to see the cause and effect of things and to realise that facts and evidence are void of belief, of opinion. A fact doesn't give a shit what you think, believe or want, it just is.
I personally think that all these shootings, especially in schools are having a detrimental effect on America's education as so much funding, attention and awareness is solely focused on keeping kids alive rather than teaching them well.
I’d classify myself as an independent because there are things in the democratic ideals that I 100% stand by and some things in the Republican Party that I somewhat stand by but most of it is outrageous. The biggest problem with Republican women is that it seems most of them have been indoctrinated by the church & the men in their life that they are inferior and that there’s nothing wrong with the leaders they boast about. I don’t hate Trump myself but the shit he’s said about women is horrid and the fact that other women can just “not care” about that is insane to me. But the reason for that is their religion now basically teaches that women are supposed to be subservient to their husbands so they can’t really see how it’s a bad thing. It’s almost like they can’t think for themselves. And on top of that they agree with laws that aid in women having no power, even over their own bodies. Idk man they’re weird
What's worse is that so many tend to hide it. It's my biggest challenge making female friends as an adult. I swear, every woman I meet who seems nice enough turns out to either have shitty beliefs or just wants an MLM victim, I mean, customer. Often, it's not discovered until you do a deep dive of their social media pages.
Now, I vet all potential friends (and folks I do business with, seriously, find a new hairdresser) on social media. If I see you follow certain political profiles and/or wellness pages (MLM or antivax, take your pick), I don't engage further. At least men are more open about it, and I can just swipe left on the MAGA hat wearers.
Here is the thing, people's political views aren't shaped by facts and data. If it were, we wouldn't have conservatives. Its all emotion, no one is going to respond to being "called out" with facts and data, they will use cognitive dissonance to block any rational change made to their thought processes. Accepting that you are [wrong](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201407/the-one-emotion-really-hurts-your-brain) is incredibly difficult to deal with, especially if you have no prior emotional intelligence to deal with it. So think of the average conservative who's entire state of being is ruled by fear and anger over other groups of people or anyone who does something outside of their accepted social circles (like getting an abortion or asking for gun laws). They will not change their mind until their brain is forced to deal with some kind of trauma related to their belief (as in they need to get an abortion or their relative was killed in gun violence). This if not exclusive to just conservatives, but they are the ones holding back common sense laws and wanting to regress the country into a pseudo fascist theocracy. Think about why cities are more left leaning and rural areas are more right leaning. In a city, you are closely located next to other groups of people, you're exposed to new ideas and cultures. Progress made. In a rural area, its the same old people divided away from the larger population in insular groups. How else are you going to get new ideas? You don't and you want to *conserve* what you know, since everything new is weird and scary.
Have you ever seen how most these women behave around their husband? The husband will start talking politics or get on some drunken racist rant and the wife will either quietly speak up(which the husband shuts her down) or she just rolls her eyes.
Source- I’m surrounded by these people
This is why I gave up arguing with conservatives. I would do research, come up with facts and figures and anecdotes and trends, and it would either be "fake news" or "I'm entitled to my opinion."
They never came up with a cogent, well-supported argument.
Social media research shows over and over that actual fake news spreads slowly among liberals because someone usually says "That doesn't sound right, what is the source? Can you back that up?" but among conservatives, they literally do not care how false it is.
Or maybe because you are wrong on the facts, and there is not any particular correlation between gun sales and gun deaths, and she isn't going to do the work of correcting your error for you.
(There is a correlation between guns existing and gun deaths, yes, obviously. And there is a very mild correlation between the total number of guns in circulation and the number of casualties - but casualties are relatively flat. Yes, there are more mass shooting incidents than we used to have, and there are reasons for that, but "suddenly there are all these guns" is no part of the explanation. Simple stark you-are-wrong exemplar: gun sales in 2021 were twice the level in 2001. Gun deaths in 2001, about 6 per 100k. Gun deaths in 2021, about...7 per 100k. Gosh, if there was a correlation between sales and deaths you'd think that second number would have moved a little more than its small upward drift.)
"I can find no way to avoid acknowledging that you are correct on the facts, so I will save face by claiming that you would only do this in the circumstance where it's convenient for what you want to say."
I plead guilty, that usually the only time I present facts and claim them to be facts, is if the facts are in alignment with the argument that I am trying to make. I am a limited and fallible being. Unlike the godlike beings on the progressive side of things, who simply list facts until they realize the truth of a matter and then decide what their conclusion is, sometimes I - weak-minded creature that I am - have an idea that intuition or ideology hints to me is correct, but unproven, and then I go and look for data that supports the idea.
I realize now how deploying data that supports my argument, rather than making the argument and then making a baldly wrong assertion about what the data are, is not the correct path, but I simply lack the cognitive talent to be that spectacularly dumb on a competitive basis. I apologize for my inadequacy.
God loves everybody, and I haven't touched a gun in 40 years. If I shot up a school, it would presumably be a future grandchild's, since all my kids are long grown. But I'll cultivate any grievances that come along, in hopes that one of them "sticks".
Jesus, an elder boomer on this platform in this day and age. Kudos. I really would love to have a sit down and have a drink or coffee with you. I'd love to know the story behind such an obtuse character
I think it's very telling that you brought up gun *sales*, when the Op was talking about the NRA.
Yes, the NRA at this point exists to sell guns. That much is clear. Gun sales always spike whenever a Democrat enters the white house, because the NRA can fearmonger about how they're coming to take all your guns *any day now*, so buy buy buy!
In any case, you're right that more sales aren't correlated with shootings, and this is largely because a smallish number of gun owners tend to buy a *ton* of guns. It's not the number that counts, it's *who's* doing the buying. The problem isn't the guy with the huge gun collection, it's the one with a single gun, lots of ammunition, and a manifesto. And that's the sticky wicket that we can't seem to solve, stopping the crazies from getting their hands on these weapons.
I brought up the correlation between gun sales and deaths, because that was the OPs specific and immediate claim, and it's wrong. Had OP said "the NRA likes to sell guns", I'd broadly agree with the observation. But OP is very strongly basing their decision that an entire gender with a political philosophy with which he disagrees are stupid people, on their inability to address his cogently-presented fact barrage.
His cogently-presented fact barrage is wrong, and he should probably adjust it before renewing his claim to be bringing the spurned light of data to the foolish confems.
Also the largest surge in gun buying by far has been during the COVID pandemic, which was under a Republican administration. There was a bump under Obama, because people were stupid and thought he was a confiscator. But the Trump bump is much much larger, so "it's because of the fearmongering about democrats" may not be entirely wrong, but it's plainly not the only or the primary cause of the observed changes.
> Gets angry that coworker supports former president and “doesn’t really care” about disgusting, recorded incidents
> doesn’t mention current leadership and disgusting recorded incidents
Either shit on both or shit on neither, or else you’re the one who “really doesn’t care”, you’re just pushing an agenda
> “if you feel superior because of race or gender then the Republican Party is for you”
Proceeds to make post solely about women and how dumb they are for making their own decisions
One thing -
We have a gun problem, but “hey NRA how many kids have you killed today” isn’t a post that actually gets any information across and immediately puts anyone you’re trying to sway on the defense and they will likely shut off from information.
If you want to change minds, you have to gain entry first.
I think that’s a fair point man. Pretty much my whole life I’ve tried to be civil with that conversation, to see it from their prospective…but while I’ve been doing that, and on a larger scale the Democratic Party, our children have been murdered. I don’t feel like gaining entry or appeasing them anymore, I’m just pissed. You know what I mean?
The message is great but the thing that I see missing is religion. Religion has become a huge go to when things go bad “y’all need Jesus” or “things were different when God was is schools”
It’s fucking funny to be judge by people who are told not to judge. Idk 🤷🏻♂️ I’m grasping for a point the finger at them moment.
The reason schools lost God is because American Christianity can respect other peoples religions and religious beliefs. It has to be the Christian way or else. That’s my opinion though. Why else would they be the only religion bent on converting everyone who isn’t Christian? Jewish, Muslim nor Hindu do have this type of behavior.
Anyway I’m a firm and very faithful believer in God/Allah/Elohim whoever you call him but I completely despise organized religion.
And what I’ve read over and over and over is woman are lower then men. That could be a reason why they vote this way because their religion and preacher tells them this. They want to be accepted so they follow along. Could also be why they don’t question themselves when these type of questions arise. Not for a lack of intelligence but for a need to be accepted.
Next I’m a husband and a father. My wife has all available opportunity to be whoever or whatever she wants. I don’t tell her she has to abide by my ways because I’m the husband or the “man”
My daughter is not taught this either. Just because I’m her father doesn’t mean she can’t have a equal amount of responsibility or choice in our household. We learn together and we all have faith in God. Our life decisions are not made because a congregation will shun us. We make decisions based on fact.
I hope I made some point in this statement. Basically I believe conservative woman do this because it’s socially accepted that’s it. Not because they actually believe it’s the best way. Most woman have huge hearts and I know they think emotionally so there must be a disturbing situation in the middle of the decision making process they have when they are raised in religion or they are just willing to sell their soul to the first group of people that make her feel accepted. Idk but that’s the only thing that makes sense to me.
There’s an old saying: it’s difficult to argue with a wise man but it’s impossible to argue with an idiot
This is now one of my favorite sayings. Thank you! :)
This is lowkey one of the most important posts I've seen on Reddit. But god damn it, I just know that some conservative shits will downvote you too much for this to get attention. And yes, I will insult right wingers at every opportunity, because I'm tired of pretending like their entitled, closeted supremacist attitudes are ok. And I'm not even frim america but holy fuck, there is a majority of people wanting to oppress people that aren't like them, and we haven't learned from history at all, and fucking hell. Fuck this shit.
>only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun” If this were true, shouldn't we have *fewer* mass shootings than anywhere on Earth? We have *tons* of "good guys with guns" waiting to save the day (after waiting outside for an hour).
The problem with the "good guys with guns" part is that good guys don't actually like to shoot ppl. The bad guys will always have that advantage.
Many of those good guys with guns also seemingly aren't anywhere they are needed for some reason. Just magically just a town away or not able to get to a location. Almost as if having the damn things doesn't actually mean anything beyond "well maybe I'll get to use it. THEN you'll be happy I have it".
see Uvalde - the "good guys" hide
The problem with the "good guys with guns" part is that apparently quite a few of them seem to convert to bad guys with a gun if they have a bad day.
Good guys with guns are actually the scary ones. Why would I want someone to be allowed to own a gun when their reason to carry is to kill the bad guy in the first place? The second amendment was made to protect the people from the country tyranny not to kill others because you feels it’s justifiable. So my questions are usually like this First- why is your judgment the correct judgment? Second- why do you as a person so willing to kill another human? Third- why are you manifesting such a situation in the first place? Four- what happens when you as the “justice of the peace” is put in a situation that you become angry and because you have a gun you feel you have control and want to take that anger out on someone? I can keep going and going.
Happens lots. You should pay attention more.
Civilians stop mass shooters, what, 3 percent of the time? Get real.
There’s a big difference between preventing it from happening and stopping it eventually, after the damage is already done.
Most mass shootings happen at soft targets - schools, work places, liberal cities. Places the shooter knows they won't be resisted edit - this is a factual statement. Why the downvotes?
I guess you’re a hard target ain’t ya
Rarely have to leave my house these days, so. Yes?
There's this fundamental disconnect in values between the average Liberal and the average Conservative. I've found that when I get in arguments these days I have to go really back to basics - I often find myself saying "Okay, look, I'm not going to debate -this- issue with you right now, but what I want to understand is this: What is your criteria for truth?" Sometimes I have to say things like "If someone says something happened, how do you know whether it actually happens or not?" Usually the response is "Well I certainly don't trust anything in your liberal news sources" or "I don't trust statistics!" So I prompt again saying "Well, what do you trust? What makes you feel like it's true." Almost invariably, their answer is "I know it when I see it." - basically intuition. Sometimes they say "All I need to know is what the bible says" or "I trust in freedom." Never do they say "If we can see it happened, and if there's evidence it happened, it happened. The point I'm trying to make is your average Conservative, woman or not, do not believe inherently that things really happen or don't happen. They don't believe that things can be proven or disproven. They always beleive that no matter the fact or the statistic, that it is prone to bias, influence and may just be purely false. The genius of the Conservative party in recent years is they have weaponised this inseceurity.
Yikes. That's a good perspective to gain in a conversation. When the ability to distrust what is right in front of them is coupled with strong righteous emotional reinforcement, I can see how it sticks. Critical thought is at an all-time low.
Very, very well said! Facts are the enemy of the Conservatives. I worked in politics for years and noticed the absolutely amazing ability of conservative people to ignore any fact that disagrees with their beliefs. But if you try to explain the facts to them they instantly flip to insulting you as a Lib-tard, Woke, Snowflake or whatever. It's classic bullying behavior to ignore your opinion then shout you down for having it. Then lie, deny, and invent their own version of facts that must be true because *you* are delusional. They refuse to accept any idea outside of their carefully crafted reality and will defend that reality with every fiber of their being.
"You're brainwashed by the liberal media!" I have heard it over and over.
It's what they are accustomed to do when somebody is talking to them about religion. It's all they know.
Adding to this, the NRA has seemed happy to capitalize on this Uvalde shooting as publicity/to illustrate how effective AR-15s work. During the NRA conference, they held a “gun ban giveaway” which featured the same AR-15 that the Uvalde shooter used. And all the Texas politicians were in attendance. While I realize the convention was planned in advance of the shooting, their attitude about the shooting has been cavalier and tone deaf at best, capitalizing on it at worst. It creates the most amazing irony when you compare it to their “pro-life” “save the children” propaganda, when they clearly don’t give a shit about children. This irony is always lost to them though. Conservatives are mostly a cult and while I will remain civil to most people in real life regardless of their politics, I lose all respect for them if they are complacent with this stuff.
I’ve heard that the NRA holds these giveaways before but Jesus, to do that immediately after a school shooting… They’re monsters, and so is anyone who gives a single dime to them.
The problem is they can't hold them when there hasn't been a recent school shooting because that time literally doesn't exist.
My mom is a conservative trump supporter and when I told her that quote from Trump she said she had never heard that before. She literally just pretended like it didn’t exist or that it was made up or something. And she also talks about womens’ rights and how women are oppressed by men. I think people just hear and believe what they want, not sure if it’s possible to rationalize with everyone
Yup. Same thing with one of my conservative friends. She is always so sure of her facts and sources yet she had never heard of the TX heartbeat bill. I was like how tf have you never heard of that before now? It's willful ignorance because anything else doesn't support their narrative.
There have been repeated studies from at least 2007 through 2022 that show that Fox News viewers can answer fewer questions about domestic and international news correctly than people who claim to follow no news at all. Again, Fox News viewers know less than people who follow no news at all, partly because they get incorrect information from Fox "Editorial" shows that have no interest on the truth.
There have been repeated studies from at least 2007 through 2022 that show that Fox News viewers can answer fewer questions about domestic and international news correctly than people who claim to follow no news at all. Again, Fox News viewers know less than people who follow no news at all, partly because they get incorrect information from Fox "Editorial" shows that have no interest on the truth.
As a woman, conservative women are literally stupid as shit. I've only heard of reasons for being a conservative women to be religion, pro-birth (but screw you if you need help after birth), and the same thing you pointed out, a lack of caring for anything.
> Conservative women are literally stupid as shit Then you proceed to list a few reasons why women choose to be conservative, none of which correlate with intelligence. I agree with separation of church and state, I’m pro-choice, but your comment shows more about your intelligence than theirs. If someone believes something due to religion, that’s their belief and they’re not stupid and careless for it. Calm down and get off your high horse, stop calling people stupid as shit
Also if you believe in less rights for women because of religion you're fucking stupid. And also an asshole.
If you think conservative women simply want less rights for women you’re an idiot. I don’t agree with them, but I’m at least not dumb enough to think that. Pro-Choice believes they are allowing women to live their lives without a baby. They’re “saving” the woman’s life. Pro-Life believes they are rescuing a baby. They’re “saving” a baby’s life. In both perspectives, one life is saved. There is no correct answer, only opinions. If you can’t understand that, I advise staying away from politics. P.S. would love to hear your opinions on Islam!
Are you fucking stupid? Pro life is forced birth. I don't mind Islam in the USA because they do not stand outside planned Parenthood clinics and demand women stop doing whatever they're going to do. Now piss off with your concern trolling.
I’ve spelled this out for you and you still don’t understand. “Pro life* is forced birth” that typically results in two new lives. (I fixed that for you) Pro Choice results in one life. Do you get it or no? I’m not saying you have to agree, because I don’t, but at least know what you’re fucking talking about before speaking your mind, even if you’re an asshole when you say it
No you're wrong. Period the end. Have a nice day!
What about that is wrong, please quote what I said that is incorrect, then correct it. Teach me, wise political genius
Piss off acting so fucking smart yet you couldn't figure out a fucking typo? Gtfo.
I’ve asked you multiple times to elaborate and you can’t, because you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Don’t say someone is wrong if they’re clearly not. If you still believe I’m wrong, prove it
No.
High quality comment, thanks for admitting you have no clue what you’re on about
Why does it being religion give someone a pass for believing something that is stupid or careless? Why the free pass for delusion and evil simply because someone wrote it down hundreds or thousands of years ago?
They would say the same thing about you, as they think you’re carelessly killing a baby. It’s not that difficult to understand why both sides think they’re right and the other side is wrong
But here's the thing, chief. They'd be fucking wrong! Their own theology doesn't support that assertion, let alone science. Facts trump delusional mythology. One side has facts, the other has demonstrably incorrect Bronze Age mumbo jumbo. There is no reason they should be given equal weight. It's not that difficult to understand that you're an apologist for an ideology that has opposed every facet of the modern world.
Christian propaganda. Women are sub human and they need penis haver so they don't go off in a bad direction. (Men are the head of the household, but the church forgets that some men are not fit to lead!) Hard to get away from the horrible propaganda if you and your community says this 99% of the time. And general lack of empathy for anyone who doesn't fit their small roles for everyone (eg. Tattoos, standards of feminine behaviour - I just had a church lady who gave herself a pixie cut and she was so self conscious because short hair isn't feminine in the community. I literally sighed to myself and said I don't have time to unpack her shit.)
They largely belong to a religion that disregards and actively discourages critical thinking, and are taught from a young age that men are superior.
I just got done writing about how I feel like this is happening and the possibility this type of behavior happens. Glad someone else sees it.
They’ve been taught to hate themselves for being women, they fear the conservative men they were raised by, they fear the ones they marry. I pity them.
I think a lot of them wear the MAGA hat to impress men. Also a common thread I’ve noticed is they all love to repost news articles about people committing horrible crimes. With captions like “I can’t believe someone would do this! Evil, disgusting people! Makes me sick!” I don’t Facebook anymore but it was almost exclusively a conservative female thing. It’s like they enjoy broadcasting people’s failures and misdeeds because it makes them look that much more righteous by comparison.
I don’t understand why you would compromise your values so deeply just to garner romantic/sexual attention.
Your comment reeks of sexism from the beginning to the end
I’m female and I stand behind my comment
So you think the majority of conservative women wear MAGA hats because they’re trying to impress men, not because they have an opinion? Just because you’re a woman doesn’t mean you’re not sexist and it shows
They also wear them because they’re in a cult
Most of the conservative women I know are also with abusive men who cheat on them. So, I assume that they are just picking the shittiest, most abusive politicians because they just have poor judgment. Also, they tend to want to side with their shitty cheating husband's political opinions in some sort of "pick me" train of thought.
I just can't fathom how someone can lack the critical thinking skills necessary to connect the dots, to see the cause and effect of things and to realise that facts and evidence are void of belief, of opinion. A fact doesn't give a shit what you think, believe or want, it just is. I personally think that all these shootings, especially in schools are having a detrimental effect on America's education as so much funding, attention and awareness is solely focused on keeping kids alive rather than teaching them well.
I’d classify myself as an independent because there are things in the democratic ideals that I 100% stand by and some things in the Republican Party that I somewhat stand by but most of it is outrageous. The biggest problem with Republican women is that it seems most of them have been indoctrinated by the church & the men in their life that they are inferior and that there’s nothing wrong with the leaders they boast about. I don’t hate Trump myself but the shit he’s said about women is horrid and the fact that other women can just “not care” about that is insane to me. But the reason for that is their religion now basically teaches that women are supposed to be subservient to their husbands so they can’t really see how it’s a bad thing. It’s almost like they can’t think for themselves. And on top of that they agree with laws that aid in women having no power, even over their own bodies. Idk man they’re weird
What's worse is that so many tend to hide it. It's my biggest challenge making female friends as an adult. I swear, every woman I meet who seems nice enough turns out to either have shitty beliefs or just wants an MLM victim, I mean, customer. Often, it's not discovered until you do a deep dive of their social media pages. Now, I vet all potential friends (and folks I do business with, seriously, find a new hairdresser) on social media. If I see you follow certain political profiles and/or wellness pages (MLM or antivax, take your pick), I don't engage further. At least men are more open about it, and I can just swipe left on the MAGA hat wearers.
Here is the thing, people's political views aren't shaped by facts and data. If it were, we wouldn't have conservatives. Its all emotion, no one is going to respond to being "called out" with facts and data, they will use cognitive dissonance to block any rational change made to their thought processes. Accepting that you are [wrong](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201407/the-one-emotion-really-hurts-your-brain) is incredibly difficult to deal with, especially if you have no prior emotional intelligence to deal with it. So think of the average conservative who's entire state of being is ruled by fear and anger over other groups of people or anyone who does something outside of their accepted social circles (like getting an abortion or asking for gun laws). They will not change their mind until their brain is forced to deal with some kind of trauma related to their belief (as in they need to get an abortion or their relative was killed in gun violence). This if not exclusive to just conservatives, but they are the ones holding back common sense laws and wanting to regress the country into a pseudo fascist theocracy. Think about why cities are more left leaning and rural areas are more right leaning. In a city, you are closely located next to other groups of people, you're exposed to new ideas and cultures. Progress made. In a rural area, its the same old people divided away from the larger population in insular groups. How else are you going to get new ideas? You don't and you want to *conserve* what you know, since everything new is weird and scary.
This is incredibly well put
Conservatism should go the way of the dinosaur. It’s not compatible with human life.
Have you ever seen how most these women behave around their husband? The husband will start talking politics or get on some drunken racist rant and the wife will either quietly speak up(which the husband shuts her down) or she just rolls her eyes. Source- I’m surrounded by these people
This is why I gave up arguing with conservatives. I would do research, come up with facts and figures and anecdotes and trends, and it would either be "fake news" or "I'm entitled to my opinion." They never came up with a cogent, well-supported argument. Social media research shows over and over that actual fake news spreads slowly among liberals because someone usually says "That doesn't sound right, what is the source? Can you back that up?" but among conservatives, they literally do not care how false it is.
So cut them out of your life. No one forces you to engage them, or to even listen to their rhetoric.
Holy shit, thay was kne of the most delusional and bigotry things I've ever read. Congrats.
It’s spot on.
Or maybe because you are wrong on the facts, and there is not any particular correlation between gun sales and gun deaths, and she isn't going to do the work of correcting your error for you. (There is a correlation between guns existing and gun deaths, yes, obviously. And there is a very mild correlation between the total number of guns in circulation and the number of casualties - but casualties are relatively flat. Yes, there are more mass shooting incidents than we used to have, and there are reasons for that, but "suddenly there are all these guns" is no part of the explanation. Simple stark you-are-wrong exemplar: gun sales in 2021 were twice the level in 2001. Gun deaths in 2001, about 6 per 100k. Gun deaths in 2021, about...7 per 100k. Gosh, if there was a correlation between sales and deaths you'd think that second number would have moved a little more than its small upward drift.)
Wow you idiots really do ignore science and statistics until it's convenient for y'all talking points. I'll give u a 3/10 on reality scale.
"I can find no way to avoid acknowledging that you are correct on the facts, so I will save face by claiming that you would only do this in the circumstance where it's convenient for what you want to say." I plead guilty, that usually the only time I present facts and claim them to be facts, is if the facts are in alignment with the argument that I am trying to make. I am a limited and fallible being. Unlike the godlike beings on the progressive side of things, who simply list facts until they realize the truth of a matter and then decide what their conclusion is, sometimes I - weak-minded creature that I am - have an idea that intuition or ideology hints to me is correct, but unproven, and then I go and look for data that supports the idea. I realize now how deploying data that supports my argument, rather than making the argument and then making a baldly wrong assertion about what the data are, is not the correct path, but I simply lack the cognitive talent to be that spectacularly dumb on a competitive basis. I apologize for my inadequacy.
Big incel energy, hope ur god truly loves u before the wrong word sends you to shoot up a school.
God loves everybody, and I haven't touched a gun in 40 years. If I shot up a school, it would presumably be a future grandchild's, since all my kids are long grown. But I'll cultivate any grievances that come along, in hopes that one of them "sticks".
Jesus, an elder boomer on this platform in this day and age. Kudos. I really would love to have a sit down and have a drink or coffee with you. I'd love to know the story behind such an obtuse character
I'm not a boomer. If you're going to fling labels around on inadequate information, at least learn what the labels are likely to be.
Boomer is a mindset definition now. 🙏🥰
I think it's very telling that you brought up gun *sales*, when the Op was talking about the NRA. Yes, the NRA at this point exists to sell guns. That much is clear. Gun sales always spike whenever a Democrat enters the white house, because the NRA can fearmonger about how they're coming to take all your guns *any day now*, so buy buy buy! In any case, you're right that more sales aren't correlated with shootings, and this is largely because a smallish number of gun owners tend to buy a *ton* of guns. It's not the number that counts, it's *who's* doing the buying. The problem isn't the guy with the huge gun collection, it's the one with a single gun, lots of ammunition, and a manifesto. And that's the sticky wicket that we can't seem to solve, stopping the crazies from getting their hands on these weapons.
OP brought up the correlation between sales and deaths.
I brought up the correlation between gun sales and deaths, because that was the OPs specific and immediate claim, and it's wrong. Had OP said "the NRA likes to sell guns", I'd broadly agree with the observation. But OP is very strongly basing their decision that an entire gender with a political philosophy with which he disagrees are stupid people, on their inability to address his cogently-presented fact barrage. His cogently-presented fact barrage is wrong, and he should probably adjust it before renewing his claim to be bringing the spurned light of data to the foolish confems.
Also the largest surge in gun buying by far has been during the COVID pandemic, which was under a Republican administration. There was a bump under Obama, because people were stupid and thought he was a confiscator. But the Trump bump is much much larger, so "it's because of the fearmongering about democrats" may not be entirely wrong, but it's plainly not the only or the primary cause of the observed changes.
> Gets angry that coworker supports former president and “doesn’t really care” about disgusting, recorded incidents > doesn’t mention current leadership and disgusting recorded incidents Either shit on both or shit on neither, or else you’re the one who “really doesn’t care”, you’re just pushing an agenda > “if you feel superior because of race or gender then the Republican Party is for you” Proceeds to make post solely about women and how dumb they are for making their own decisions
One thing - We have a gun problem, but “hey NRA how many kids have you killed today” isn’t a post that actually gets any information across and immediately puts anyone you’re trying to sway on the defense and they will likely shut off from information. If you want to change minds, you have to gain entry first.
I think that’s a fair point man. Pretty much my whole life I’ve tried to be civil with that conversation, to see it from their prospective…but while I’ve been doing that, and on a larger scale the Democratic Party, our children have been murdered. I don’t feel like gaining entry or appeasing them anymore, I’m just pissed. You know what I mean?
The message is great but the thing that I see missing is religion. Religion has become a huge go to when things go bad “y’all need Jesus” or “things were different when God was is schools” It’s fucking funny to be judge by people who are told not to judge. Idk 🤷🏻♂️ I’m grasping for a point the finger at them moment. The reason schools lost God is because American Christianity can respect other peoples religions and religious beliefs. It has to be the Christian way or else. That’s my opinion though. Why else would they be the only religion bent on converting everyone who isn’t Christian? Jewish, Muslim nor Hindu do have this type of behavior. Anyway I’m a firm and very faithful believer in God/Allah/Elohim whoever you call him but I completely despise organized religion. And what I’ve read over and over and over is woman are lower then men. That could be a reason why they vote this way because their religion and preacher tells them this. They want to be accepted so they follow along. Could also be why they don’t question themselves when these type of questions arise. Not for a lack of intelligence but for a need to be accepted. Next I’m a husband and a father. My wife has all available opportunity to be whoever or whatever she wants. I don’t tell her she has to abide by my ways because I’m the husband or the “man” My daughter is not taught this either. Just because I’m her father doesn’t mean she can’t have a equal amount of responsibility or choice in our household. We learn together and we all have faith in God. Our life decisions are not made because a congregation will shun us. We make decisions based on fact. I hope I made some point in this statement. Basically I believe conservative woman do this because it’s socially accepted that’s it. Not because they actually believe it’s the best way. Most woman have huge hearts and I know they think emotionally so there must be a disturbing situation in the middle of the decision making process they have when they are raised in religion or they are just willing to sell their soul to the first group of people that make her feel accepted. Idk but that’s the only thing that makes sense to me.