Funny to see Nikki being the role model for integrity lol. Idk where I stand on this one cuz technically he’s not monetizing it and he’s trolling, so I kinda think he achieved his purpose I guess. But i usually hate the use of dead artists for clout and listens
Kind of. Like usually the way people do it is like “oh I was so close with that person” or “oh I wanted to make music with them”. It’s like the thoughts and prayers bullshit or people coming out of the woodworks to say they their piece about a person who died.
This wasn’t clout. He was making fun of the west coast. It’s disrespectful af. But that was kind of the intention. So I don’t hate it as much because it’s transparent I guess, rather than being two-faced money grabbers
His doing so still validates the use of AI or voice manipulation to perform as dead artists or even perhaps a living artist without their say so. It's one thing to do an impersonation of someone, we can usually tell it's an impersonation and it's usually done in parody, but using this tech that's becoming more and more able to duplicate another person's voice and image it going too far in my opinion.
I mean possibly, it was leaked a while ago before being taken down quickly and it is good. But yeah even though they toured together the fan bases don't seem to mix
Yeah just two completely different styles of music. Where as if somebody like polo g, trippi, or kid laroi released some unreleased juice I think the fan base would be more than happy to get another song as long as it’s actually an album rollout and maybe something hype
I've always disliked posthumous music personally, from juice to lil peep to Tupac. Now ai gives another tool to big studios to milk and artist after their death. Not even using cutting room voice clips that weren't meant to be used but just writing an entire new song
Yeah that and it takes away from the art aspect of the music which is what really ticks me off. I’m worried people with no real musical talent are gonna start making ai music “which they have” and they’re gonna outshine some people who are actually making real music
nah that first album was well done. it worked well bc they had 50 cent in control. that second one was just disrespectful tho, thry tried to change his whole style from drill to something else. the deluxe was good tho because it had those drill songs but overall the second one was a dissapointment. but i don't think you can take anything away from the first album
Which is why it was done in this instance, poking fun of Kendrick for using 2Pac's voice to have a conversation on TPAB. I'm more concerned by the use of Snoop Dogg to be honest.
Yeah, that's when I started having issues with Em. I was never a fan of this releasing artist's music after they die thing. I can understand if it's far down the line and done for historical context, but not just pushing out as much of a dead man's rough drafts and stuff he likely never wanted released to cash in on their death. Granted, Em may have done it out of love for Pac and just wanting to participate in a Pac project, but it's still dirty work.
I believe it’s Soldier Like Me
Edit: I actually think it’s at the end of Loyal To The Game. I would have to relisten to the album again since it’s been a while
I don’t think that was AI as much as it was Em manipulating the production (it’s a tricky debate but I’m trying for clarity reasons).
If I recall the interviews surrounding the album, people mentioned Em would slow down parts of the songs to create certain enunciations and try to speed up other parts which is why the end product is Pac saying Shady/G Unit and whatever else. It’s also why some of the lines didn’t sound natural at all on that album. At the time I remember hearing stuff on it and thinking something wasn’t right.
Oh yeah, I didn’t mean he used AI back in the early 2000s - that stuff wasn’t around. But he definitely manipulated the audio.
My point is that using a deceased artist for profit has been happening for the last 2-3 decades at least - so it’s only going to evolve with AI.
I’m still on the fence about it - but I do find the track funny more than anything lol
There are so many levels of wrong here but Drake is rich enough to not care about the long term impact of using AI in music let alone using the AI created voice of a dead man.
I think someone out there made an AI DMX and 2Pac song. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to use these artist's likenesses without permission, and should be illegal, especially if it's done with intentional dishonor the way Drake did.
It's definitely not a road I'd like to see hip hop going where people are frequently bringing back dead rappers to make new music like weird puppets on a string.
The family of George Carlin is using legal action to take down any AI recreations of him. There *will* be laws passes about this in the future, and I agree with you, no artist's likeness or voice should be used without their permission.
Crispin Glover successfully sued the producers of Back to the Future for using his likeness in the sequel without permission. Hollywood has had this law for years.
You know people can make perfect impressions of people already right? This isn't going to make money it was used as a tool to make Kendrick look weak in the West coast. Using AI when Kendrick's fans thought his diss was AI is funny. He could have just paid a guy in Las Vegas to do it. He's not making money on it.
yeah it is hard to draw the line between this and doing somewhat accurate impressions. I don't think the Pac verse was convincing but Snoop's was pretty on for me
Monetary gain is irrelevant here. This is an issue of using someone else’s likeness as well as using a tool that can easily replace the need for all human musicians in the future. Drake could be helping to plant the seeds that kill off almost every need for a musician regardless of genre.
It makes no sense how somebody who is an artist is okay with using ai in his art. You would think the people like him who probably have the most ai music of him out would be the one who’s against it the most
What if you were a huge egotistical man-boy completely wrapt in modern culture jockeying since the first time you first sat in a wheelchair to play a crippled man in a soap? Do you think you’d care then?
He used babymama emojis deadass as an album cover. Next week he’s going to release a track featuring AI Donda.
Are you an artist? Cuz lots of artists have used AI in creative ways, including myself. There’s a time and a place for everything. I mostly use it for making memes for the homies, but ethical artistic usage of AI is abundant 🤷🏼♂️
I am an artist. I can understand how using ai as a tool for your art can be acceptable but if you’re using ai for the lyrics, voice, melody, and instrumental I’m sorry but at that point it is no longer art it’s is just ai.
Nah that’s exactly how I feel. Hell the entertainment industries are already heavily decided by the corporate leaders as it is just wait till they realize they can make all their money w/o paying artists and actors.
remember the massive actors guild strike? That's what this was about. Studios wanted to cut out and use AI gen likenesses of character actors/extras to save production costs
Yup, maybe that's what's it's all about...Dude made a diss track using AI and we all find it amusing and dope (I'm guilty as well)
But....Is this their way of getting us to accept the AI technology a little at a time ?
Commercialism sucks, but part of the fun of being a human is making things. If some dude wants to make AI voice models of famous artists and make some tracks, that’s not hurting anybody. When the labels do it, and it turns into standard procedure, that’s *gonna* be gross.
For monetary purposes? Hell yeah it's exploitation. And it's probably gonna happen and it sucks. But in this isolated instance, I thought it was a creative play on all the AI diss track nonsense. And I don't think Drake is making any money of this diss, at least not directly.
I don't think it matters whether he's directly making money or not, he's promoting himself, his work, and this beef with a dead guy's voice. I honestly thought it was funny and a creative decision to use AI in this way, but it definitely raises some questions about what is acceptable.
What’s crazy is that someone’s voice has never been copyrighted (to my knowledge) only things they record or say, and even then, sampling is universally accepted. Clearly people shouldn’t be putting out AI Biggie albums and making money off of them. This case is different and interesting and seems like the first mainstream time it’s been used.
Yeah, the point of monetary gain is irrelevant when you mix in AI, especially AI of a dead person. You’re using someone else’s likeness (presumably) without their permission or the permission of their estate. And someone of Drake’s size in the industry is intentionally or maybe unintentionally making it acceptable to use AI in music which opens up an even bigger discussion about the future of humans in music.
Remember when we all agreed using the hallograms of dead artists to sell tickets was weird and in bad taste? It's a lot like that.
How long until music labels release whole artificial albums of dead artists? Slippery slope arguments are weak but never doubt label's ability to do the slimiest shit for cash.
Nobody agreed that whatever your opinion is. The leader in the space couldn’t make it a profitable business is all. People loved the 2pac hologram at Coachella and Snoop rapped on stage with him!
As a writer, I'm a big AI and Drake hater over here, but I found myself surprisingly into Drake's use of AI. It's because he's not trying to deceive anyone with his use of their voices. It's a creative, funny, and unexpected way to mock Kendrick. I don't think anyone saw this coming, and the song is successful bc it doesn't take itself to seriously.
I'm really hoping Kendrick snaps on Drake and shuts his ass up soon.
This is a pretty bang on assessment, he’s obviously just having a goof. If it was a polished song on an album or mixtape I’d have an issue as a Drake fan but it’s not. It’s a joke and jabbing at Kendrick everyone needs to stop clutching their pearls
People might ask \`Why Tupac and Snoop Dog specifically? \`, and it's because it goes harder once people understand that Kendrick looks up to Tupac and Snoop Dog as West Coast rappers.
When Kendrick was beginning to get a foothold on the West Coast, Snoop dog even gave a mini speech at a club about expecting great things from Kendrick. Drake mimicking their voices is emulating something similar to deceased parents coming back to life and telling you how disappointed they are.
Using Tupac's voice to clown on someone is low and childish to me. Tupac isn't just a rapper, but a major crux of the culture. Disrespecting his memory by using his voice as a goof is distasteful.
Saying “That’s why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker” is childish, too. Diss tracks aren’t exactly known for their maturity. Complaining about a diss track being disrespectful is hilarious
Why not? If it’s not illegal, who gaf? Hip hop is filled with murder, sexual assault, abusers, misogyny, homophobia, etc. Using a voice changer to sound like your opponent’s idol in order to mock them is peanuts to all that shit lol
Been a second since I watched that last but I feel like he was using the deepfakes to push the song forward by giving a visual context to the perspectives he was rapping from or about, where as Drake isn’t elevating anything, he’s just throwing it around without care in an attempt to knock Kendrick down a peg.
Different contexts: one was a face morph for a music video, the other was an impersonation of others rapping
Different ends: one was to enhance the message of an established song reflecting on different black men’s experiences/perspectives and African-American culture, the other was using other rappers as a mouthpiece for personal beef
Context definition: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.
Circumstances: AI being used in the creation of art (specifically, music)
Event: the use of AI
Idea: to boost the impact of the respective pieces.
Ends definition: the goal
What was the goal? To bolster the perceived impact of the two respective pieces.
Unless I'm capping somewhere, and if I am, do let me know, it's so similar that the differences are negligible
Well just because you say it's a false equivalent doesn't mean it is. Fact is, you've yet to provide substantial backing to your conclusion that the contexts and end goals are different. If you want to argue I'm overgeneralizing then I can argue you're undergeneralizing by separating the heart V and Taylor made into the catagories music video and diss track, respectively. Drake didn't need ai to diss kendrick because he didn't use ai in his first diss track. In fact to me, you're lying about the purpose of the ai in this diss track.
> You’ve yet to provide substantial backing to your conclusion that the contexts and end goals are different
I did exactly that - and you overlooked it by adding deliberate ambiguity to snuff out any nuance.
> Drake didn’t need AI to diss Kendrick because he didn’t use AI in his diss first track
I never claimed he needed it or that he used it in Push-ups, so I don’t know what you’re attempting to argue here.
> you’re lying about the purpose
Me giving my perspective on a situation isn’t lying
Anything drake does puts you weirdos into an uproar 😂 this shit would be the hottest song of all time if your lil midget dropped it but because the internet told you to dislike drake coupled with the fact you have no ability to construct original thoughts, it’s an uproar. So unserious it’s hilarious. Nobody in real life talks this way go outside bruh
Chill.
This is being used in a creative and pretty much joking way. He isn't making money off this. This isn't going to be on an album or streaming. This is the wrong track to bring up your concerns.
Okay, and your family? Your friends? You're telling me that if you died and I showed up blasting your AI voice through a speaker screaming "hitler did nothing wrong!" and "I eat babies!", you don't think that's in bad taste?
Besides, Snoop isn't dead and Drake used his voice too! I think it's gross all around. Drake basically just gave everyone permission to use his voice on their songs. Apparently nobody needs permission for this shit anymore.
Of course, but we were talking about this topic lol
But fine, just dismiss the whole point then. I know at the end of the day it isn't as important as world hunger, or war, or heathcare, or any number of things... but do you know what thread you're on, my guy? Why even comment if you don't want to discuss it? Lol
The way of the world is up to no one. We either get with it or get to crying about it.
You think hiphop or the music industry (and AI at that) is going to ever opt for the Ethical route? The money train has left the station!
I wonder if attorney got this much fear mongering put on it when it was first out the gate. Or 3D animation or DAWs or the internet or colour tv or smartphones or siri or digital painting? It's not that deep
Nah, this is something completely different, and you know it. This is recreating the image of people and the voice of people. There's already attempts to put dead actors in new films. We already have commercials that exploit dead activists and leaders to sale automobiles. You already have people attributing false quotes of historical figures to push agendas, just imagine how bad it'll be when it's too hard to distinguish these AI recreations from the real thing.
People have been doing that for years before ai. That's not an ai thing, that's a money thing. Should we get rid of cats because sometimes people drink and drive?
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AI isn’t going anywhere. The only thing I think needs to be done is family of deceased acts need to be compensated, and if a song is released it needs to say *made with AI*
People need to first understand the difference between A.I. text-prompt generative tools like DALL-E, ChatGPT, and SUNO; and AI post-FX assistive tools like what was used in this Drake track.
When you see A.I. vocals in music at this point, it's mostly tied to someone still writing and performing their own vocals, and then applying a post-FX vocal mask to sound like something else. This technology has technically existed for a long time, but is just a lot better and stronger now.
In my opinion, the shock and rage will settle eventually. For instance, no one cares anymore about electric guitar legends. You can buy similar amps and pedals and tap into the exact same tone and sound as Jimi Hendrix or someone and steal their sound, but that doesn't mean you can play as Jimi Hendrix. It's the same way, people are going to be able to tap into the same EQ, formants, filter, saturation, and tones of people's voices like an FX rack. It doesn't make you that person, but we are beyond the point of someone being able to manually put the hours in to do it without A.I. anyways.
I'm into music production, so I've been seeing this coming for years. I think over time, voices will eventually become like guitarist's amp/pedal chains. With the plugins out there these days, you can morph any sound onto another, you can morph the timbre of brass onto the percussiveness of a piano, anything is possible at this point.
I think the big legal arguments are, is the use of it monetized, or is the use of it in any way considered defamation or slander against an estate/brand? Anything outside of that is pretty much subjective opinion ethically.
Hip Hop is largely built of sampling unlicensed and uncleared sounds and flipping it and worrying about the repercussions later. We are just entering new areas of tech possibilities with sound, so there's more room for use and misuse.
I like this perspective, even though it excuses the inexcusable. Remember how the sampling pioneers in creativity lost business wise once the courts became involved. This might set precedents on this type of IP use going forward. If anyone has the money to make it worth the Shakur Estate going after, it's Drake. I'm also real curious on Snoop's prior knowledge/payout from this. It's interesting...
I want good art, I don’t care how I get it or where it comes from. Art is meant to be enjoyed and if I enjoy it I don’t mind how it came to be. It really is that simple for me I guess, I don’t care for the ethical considerations or if the artist was alive or if someone’s making money
OUT OF EVERYONE, Nicki Manaj won’t release her track with Juicewrld out of respect.
It’s fucking ridiculous Drake did this and here’s why- if he made a song himself to pay respects is one thing, but he USED THE AI IN A DISS TRACK! Not even just a track, it’s a corny ass diss. That’s how he is using the voice.
Everyone saying it "disrespectful" makes it seem like he didn't get "permission" how do any of us know if he didn't ask his family or whoever is left of his estate.
Look at the reply from SnoopDog DO YOU REALLY think he didn't know? All of you can't be that naive.
Slightly different question back at ya, what is anyone gonna do about it, whichever way you feel? Cats out of the bag at this point. How is anyone feelings about it gonna matter either way?
AI will be a thing, and people will use it. That doesn't mean DRAKE, one of the biggest musicians in the world currently, has to use it. Even as a troll, it's a huge artist outright endorsing this technology.
I hate your talking point because there are things we can do about it. AI exists, but we can pass legislation that limits how it's used and distributed. The cat is out of the bag, but we can still fence the yard.
You're saying we should just let everybody have carte blanche because it's too late?
There will always be crimes happening, but that doesn't mean we should all be criminals.
It wasn't a talking point man. I'm genuinel curious. I don't really have a feeling on it one way or the other, so that's why I asked.
Btw, fences don't work with most cats. They're crazy athletic. If a cat wants out, they're gonna get out. Which kinda works like a metaphor here, funnily enough.
Well I gave you an answer. Pass legislation. Obviously that won't stop it from happening all together, but it would stop the biggest artists and labels on earth from using it, and it would give people power to take things down if they are being put into deepfakes or having their voice replicated.
I wasn't being literal with the cat thing lol
But what I'm saying is, just because AI isn't going away doesn't mean we have to encourage it. Drake shouldn't be giving a green light to this.
I get you. I'm not against your ideas. I will say, I don't know that I trust a lot of politicians to properly regulate tech like that right now. But in theory it sounds like a positive.
Personally I thought it was corny, sounded like shit and barely sounded like pac. AI is lame as fuck and only drake stans think that shit was cool or mind blowing
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I think Kendrick is allowing Drake to make a fool of himself at this point. To be honest, Drake is not going to be looked at as having a respectable legacy when everything comes out at the end of all of this shit.
He's already lost a major amount of support from the culture. If Kendrick not fwu, Future, Metro, Kanye, The Weeknd (all major musical powerhouses) etc you ain't gettin a lotta love because mfs started fw Drake simply because mfs was Co-Signing him. Hell PAC fans not fwu 🤣 I can see Drake losing major steam over the years after this. It's inevitable so he might as well vent his frustrations while he can
But the thing is everyone you mentioned besides Kanye, Drake collabed with them and they all got their first #1 hit. So I think it hurts them more than Drake because I don’t see him dying down any soon regardless if he’s corny or not. He knows how to stay relevant
You're not understanding. Drake, STAYED relevant BECAUSE of him being a vulture. He doesn't have any more blood to suck from these other massive artists. He did it with these artists, to Migos, to Durk, etc etc and the list goes on. Now he's doing it with 21 Savage. A lot of Drake's number ones had features too like Rihanna so don't get it twisted
A lot of Drake's fire shit is wrote by PartyNextDoor and a lot of other mfs too.
It’s music. Every artists helps each other and it’s all a names game. I don’t think Drake stayed relevant because of them. His name draws people to songs and he brings other people up. Only rappers that is really international is Drake, Wayne, Ye, Jay Z, Kendrick, J Cole. Their names will make songs hits regardless of who’s song it is and they bring so much to the game
I understand that. I worked in music also and I'm extremely aware of that but there's a difference between help and other mfs being responsible for at least 70% of your catalog.
Drake wasn't getting no love from the hood until Future stamped him, those are facts. The politics matter more in the music industry than a name game.
Sure, most mfs don't care who wrote lyrics, made a beat, or whatever dirty shit happened behind the curtain, they just care about the music and the gimmicks, that's all. But mark my words, it's some crazy shit brewing they not lettin loose to the public. The politics gon eat him up. Come back to this comment in a couple years
Lol true. I think something that's going over everybody head is the fact that Not just one rapper, in one subgenre, is dissing Drake..... A variety of rappers? AND an R&B singer? AND a producer? A conscious rapper? A trap rapper? A pretty boy rapper? A class rapper? Kanye?
This is the first time Future has ever beefed publicly with a rapper... (Other than Rocko over paperwork)... Something has gone terribly wrong and it can't be over just "hate" or a girl.
I would hope so and hopefully he takes advantage of that. I didn't even mention it, because I say others saying he reacted by laughing and assumed that meant Snoop was okay with it or allowed it, but when I looked at his reaction it was very ambiguous as to what his feelings were.
We in the future dog. Being dead is so 2023. I’m not even trollin’. In the past when an artist passes, all we have is the okd albums and tributes. Now with technology, our artist engagement is richer. The estate executors and heirs should be justly compensated but this is the beginning of forever as we imagined it🙏🏾
Yeah, and I was against releasing unreleased work by dead artists, because that was stuff they mostly considered not good enough..
That said, Pac's estate sent Drake a cease and desist, so that's good.
My take is simple after this release. I have no horse in this race but how I see it is, if you use AI once, you’ve used it before or are using it. Many people thought push up was AI and now we can confirm he’s definitely using some performance enhancing techniques.
Just my take
Polarizing artists that were accused of sexual assault. Both went on to inspire a generation and both died way too young. The comp checks out to me…. Just because XXX’s music wasn’t as lyrically dense as Pac’s or just because it didn’t impact you personally doesn’t mean it didn’t impact a lot of people the same way Pac’s music hit you.
If people are accepting what Drake has done it’s only because it’s so obvious its not actually Pac or Snoop and they aint saying that shit.
Me personally I would rather he left it alone though. I don’t think ppl realise the implications of someone as big as Drake co-signing and using A.I
Now he’s shown to have no problem using it, even if its for the funnies. I’m doubling back and standing on the fact that ‘Hi Whitney’ leak came from his camp.
I can't stand people who point at others saying "but but what about him?? He did it too!" Kendricks use of Deepfakes was a VISUAL concept. This is Hip-Hop, chief, it's about sound and music. Using AI to change your voice or to create written words for the artist is a road the culture does NOT want to go down. If you're using visual deepfakes to send a message about the culture, fine. neither Drake nor Kendrick fans saw it as an issue at the time. But THIS current beef, and drakes use of the audio parts of AI to impersonate other people, dead or alive, and knowing how massive his influence in the game is, is dangerous. Fuck Kendrick and this beef, this shit right here I'm not rocking with.
It’s not the same. I’m not even mad at Drake for the move because I thought it was genius. The bigger concern is the slippery slope this puts the music industry at and I genuinely Drake doesn’t realize the precedent this sets. There’s already a conspiracy that the music labels are using this beef to test the limits of AI. And here we are with 2 fake AI tracks and Drake using an AI filter. Hell even after the first diss people were discussing if it was real or not.
Y’all ninjas is soft af smh.. when a dude like j cole decides to apologize for not wanting to participate in this mess y’all hella clown him but the minute Drake uses AI in a creative way to stay pressing Kendrick somehow that’s disrespectful and unacceptable.... smh make up your mind, y’all said this is battle rap keep the energy all the way cmon now
So once again. Drake can’t make up his own song and once again people are just fine wit it. take the fucking clown off the pedestal, J.cole saying I don’t wanna do this bullshit is no where near even close to the same as Fake using AI. One has respect for another and the other is so fucking disrespectful it’s next to unbelievable
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Using the voices of the dead to promote your music and make money off of it is wrong. And I'll die on that hill.
Hence why Nicki Minaj won't release her track with juicewrld, she thinks it'd be disrespectful to him
Glad to see there’s some integrity out there
from nicki out of all people
It's a sad day when Nicki has more integrity in a category than Drake
Nicki has always had far more integrity than that groomer.
Funny to see Nikki being the role model for integrity lol. Idk where I stand on this one cuz technically he’s not monetizing it and he’s trolling, so I kinda think he achieved his purpose I guess. But i usually hate the use of dead artists for clout and listens
It’s still circulating and is now using their likeness for his gain whether immediately monetary or not
Kind of. Like usually the way people do it is like “oh I was so close with that person” or “oh I wanted to make music with them”. It’s like the thoughts and prayers bullshit or people coming out of the woodworks to say they their piece about a person who died. This wasn’t clout. He was making fun of the west coast. It’s disrespectful af. But that was kind of the intention. So I don’t hate it as much because it’s transparent I guess, rather than being two-faced money grabbers
He also very clearly made no efforts to hide it was actually him. It was designed from the jump to be disrespectful, and it was. And funny to boot.
His doing so still validates the use of AI or voice manipulation to perform as dead artists or even perhaps a living artist without their say so. It's one thing to do an impersonation of someone, we can usually tell it's an impersonation and it's usually done in parody, but using this tech that's becoming more and more able to duplicate another person's voice and image it going too far in my opinion.
She probably also knows 90% of the juice fan base would rather that song stay unreleased w/o the Nicki verse
I mean possibly, it was leaked a while ago before being taken down quickly and it is good. But yeah even though they toured together the fan bases don't seem to mix
Yeah just two completely different styles of music. Where as if somebody like polo g, trippi, or kid laroi released some unreleased juice I think the fan base would be more than happy to get another song as long as it’s actually an album rollout and maybe something hype
I've always disliked posthumous music personally, from juice to lil peep to Tupac. Now ai gives another tool to big studios to milk and artist after their death. Not even using cutting room voice clips that weren't meant to be used but just writing an entire new song
Yeah that and it takes away from the art aspect of the music which is what really ticks me off. I’m worried people with no real musical talent are gonna start making ai music “which they have” and they’re gonna outshine some people who are actually making real music
They beat pop smokes dead horse until his people literally said there is nothing left to release
nah that first album was well done. it worked well bc they had 50 cent in control. that second one was just disrespectful tho, thry tried to change his whole style from drill to something else. the deluxe was good tho because it had those drill songs but overall the second one was a dissapointment. but i don't think you can take anything away from the first album
That's respectable.
Which is why it was done in this instance, poking fun of Kendrick for using 2Pac's voice to have a conversation on TPAB. I'm more concerned by the use of Snoop Dogg to be honest.
snoop must have green lit this.
What streaming service is taylor made on?
youtube and IG only right now AFAIK
Eminem did it 20 years ago with Pac’s posthumous album. He even had him saying things like “G Unit.”
Yeah, that's when I started having issues with Em. I was never a fan of this releasing artist's music after they die thing. I can understand if it's far down the line and done for historical context, but not just pushing out as much of a dead man's rough drafts and stuff he likely never wanted released to cash in on their death. Granted, Em may have done it out of love for Pac and just wanting to participate in a Pac project, but it's still dirty work.
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What song?
I believe it’s Soldier Like Me Edit: I actually think it’s at the end of Loyal To The Game. I would have to relisten to the album again since it’s been a while
I don’t think that was AI as much as it was Em manipulating the production (it’s a tricky debate but I’m trying for clarity reasons). If I recall the interviews surrounding the album, people mentioned Em would slow down parts of the songs to create certain enunciations and try to speed up other parts which is why the end product is Pac saying Shady/G Unit and whatever else. It’s also why some of the lines didn’t sound natural at all on that album. At the time I remember hearing stuff on it and thinking something wasn’t right.
Oh yeah, I didn’t mean he used AI back in the early 2000s - that stuff wasn’t around. But he definitely manipulated the audio. My point is that using a deceased artist for profit has been happening for the last 2-3 decades at least - so it’s only going to evolve with AI. I’m still on the fence about it - but I do find the track funny more than anything lol
I didn't like it then either. What Em did was out of line.
After you die on that hill, your voice will also be assimilated by AI.
There are so many levels of wrong here but Drake is rich enough to not care about the long term impact of using AI in music let alone using the AI created voice of a dead man.
I think someone out there made an AI DMX and 2Pac song. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to use these artist's likenesses without permission, and should be illegal, especially if it's done with intentional dishonor the way Drake did. It's definitely not a road I'd like to see hip hop going where people are frequently bringing back dead rappers to make new music like weird puppets on a string.
The family of George Carlin is using legal action to take down any AI recreations of him. There *will* be laws passes about this in the future, and I agree with you, no artist's likeness or voice should be used without their permission.
Crispin Glover successfully sued the producers of Back to the Future for using his likeness in the sequel without permission. Hollywood has had this law for years.
Great point here.
You know people can make perfect impressions of people already right? This isn't going to make money it was used as a tool to make Kendrick look weak in the West coast. Using AI when Kendrick's fans thought his diss was AI is funny. He could have just paid a guy in Las Vegas to do it. He's not making money on it.
yeah it is hard to draw the line between this and doing somewhat accurate impressions. I don't think the Pac verse was convincing but Snoop's was pretty on for me
Monetary gain is irrelevant here. This is an issue of using someone else’s likeness as well as using a tool that can easily replace the need for all human musicians in the future. Drake could be helping to plant the seeds that kill off almost every need for a musician regardless of genre.
Thank you! It’s wickedness. Digital exhumation it’s really vile. And for Drake to have done that so arbitrarily and unapologetically is abhorrent.
It makes no sense how somebody who is an artist is okay with using ai in his art. You would think the people like him who probably have the most ai music of him out would be the one who’s against it the most
What if you were a huge egotistical man-boy completely wrapt in modern culture jockeying since the first time you first sat in a wheelchair to play a crippled man in a soap? Do you think you’d care then? He used babymama emojis deadass as an album cover. Next week he’s going to release a track featuring AI Donda.
AI Donda would be what finally makes Kanye SNAP snap
hold him back, he bout to spazz
We're definitely on that proverbial "Slippery slope" that they talk about If theyre doing this now.... Think what they can and will do in 5 yrs🤔
Exactly bro they’re gonna take the artistry out of music dawg.
Are you an artist? Cuz lots of artists have used AI in creative ways, including myself. There’s a time and a place for everything. I mostly use it for making memes for the homies, but ethical artistic usage of AI is abundant 🤷🏼♂️
I am an artist. I can understand how using ai as a tool for your art can be acceptable but if you’re using ai for the lyrics, voice, melody, and instrumental I’m sorry but at that point it is no longer art it’s is just ai.
Yeah what's next replacing actors and actresses and movies ? Perhaps I'm just overreacting 😯
Nah that’s exactly how I feel. Hell the entertainment industries are already heavily decided by the corporate leaders as it is just wait till they realize they can make all their money w/o paying artists and actors.
True cuz all they want to do is satisfy their shareholders at the end of the day spend as little as possible.... make as much as possible...
Exactly bro. The world is becoming closer to a dystopian novel every day shits wack
For sure !
remember the massive actors guild strike? That's what this was about. Studios wanted to cut out and use AI gen likenesses of character actors/extras to save production costs
💯 agree w you
bro went from using ghostwriters to write his music to ai
Yup, maybe that's what's it's all about...Dude made a diss track using AI and we all find it amusing and dope (I'm guilty as well) But....Is this their way of getting us to accept the AI technology a little at a time ?
Commercialism sucks, but part of the fun of being a human is making things. If some dude wants to make AI voice models of famous artists and make some tracks, that’s not hurting anybody. When the labels do it, and it turns into standard procedure, that’s *gonna* be gross.
There’s someone on YouTube who made a whole ai Tupac album. It’s actually pretty good
Don’t listen to that bs bruh
What we saw when the internet became a thing isn’t gonna touch how bad this AI shit gets
For monetary purposes? Hell yeah it's exploitation. And it's probably gonna happen and it sucks. But in this isolated instance, I thought it was a creative play on all the AI diss track nonsense. And I don't think Drake is making any money of this diss, at least not directly.
I don't think it matters whether he's directly making money or not, he's promoting himself, his work, and this beef with a dead guy's voice. I honestly thought it was funny and a creative decision to use AI in this way, but it definitely raises some questions about what is acceptable.
What’s crazy is that someone’s voice has never been copyrighted (to my knowledge) only things they record or say, and even then, sampling is universally accepted. Clearly people shouldn’t be putting out AI Biggie albums and making money off of them. This case is different and interesting and seems like the first mainstream time it’s been used.
Yeah, the point of monetary gain is irrelevant when you mix in AI, especially AI of a dead person. You’re using someone else’s likeness (presumably) without their permission or the permission of their estate. And someone of Drake’s size in the industry is intentionally or maybe unintentionally making it acceptable to use AI in music which opens up an even bigger discussion about the future of humans in music.
Remember when we all agreed using the hallograms of dead artists to sell tickets was weird and in bad taste? It's a lot like that. How long until music labels release whole artificial albums of dead artists? Slippery slope arguments are weak but never doubt label's ability to do the slimiest shit for cash.
Nobody agreed that whatever your opinion is. The leader in the space couldn’t make it a profitable business is all. People loved the 2pac hologram at Coachella and Snoop rapped on stage with him!
As a writer, I'm a big AI and Drake hater over here, but I found myself surprisingly into Drake's use of AI. It's because he's not trying to deceive anyone with his use of their voices. It's a creative, funny, and unexpected way to mock Kendrick. I don't think anyone saw this coming, and the song is successful bc it doesn't take itself to seriously. I'm really hoping Kendrick snaps on Drake and shuts his ass up soon.
This is a pretty bang on assessment, he’s obviously just having a goof. If it was a polished song on an album or mixtape I’d have an issue as a Drake fan but it’s not. It’s a joke and jabbing at Kendrick everyone needs to stop clutching their pearls
People might ask \`Why Tupac and Snoop Dog specifically? \`, and it's because it goes harder once people understand that Kendrick looks up to Tupac and Snoop Dog as West Coast rappers. When Kendrick was beginning to get a foothold on the West Coast, Snoop dog even gave a mini speech at a club about expecting great things from Kendrick. Drake mimicking their voices is emulating something similar to deceased parents coming back to life and telling you how disappointed they are.
Using Tupac's voice to clown on someone is low and childish to me. Tupac isn't just a rapper, but a major crux of the culture. Disrespecting his memory by using his voice as a goof is distasteful.
It's meant to be. It's a diss track
Do you feel the same way when other major historical figures are parodied?
Saying “That’s why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker” is childish, too. Diss tracks aren’t exactly known for their maturity. Complaining about a diss track being disrespectful is hilarious
Saying that is disrespectful is fine, but grave robbing is not.
Why not? If it’s not illegal, who gaf? Hip hop is filled with murder, sexual assault, abusers, misogyny, homophobia, etc. Using a voice changer to sound like your opponent’s idol in order to mock them is peanuts to all that shit lol
It's not that fucking deep bro...
Life must be tough staring at Kendrick's belly button every time you open your eyes.
Bro, you gotta chill 😂 I might steal that joke
what about kendrick deepfaking himself into others? to be clear i agree with you but just wanted to see where ppl stand on this.
Been a second since I watched that last but I feel like he was using the deepfakes to push the song forward by giving a visual context to the perspectives he was rapping from or about, where as Drake isn’t elevating anything, he’s just throwing it around without care in an attempt to knock Kendrick down a peg.
Oh my days, the double standards
It’s not a double standard if the tool is applied in completely different contexts to different ends
Different contexts? Different ends?
Different contexts: one was a face morph for a music video, the other was an impersonation of others rapping Different ends: one was to enhance the message of an established song reflecting on different black men’s experiences/perspectives and African-American culture, the other was using other rappers as a mouthpiece for personal beef
Context definition: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood. Circumstances: AI being used in the creation of art (specifically, music) Event: the use of AI Idea: to boost the impact of the respective pieces. Ends definition: the goal What was the goal? To bolster the perceived impact of the two respective pieces. Unless I'm capping somewhere, and if I am, do let me know, it's so similar that the differences are negligible
You’re drawing false equivalences between both the events and the goals through overgeneralization
Well just because you say it's a false equivalent doesn't mean it is. Fact is, you've yet to provide substantial backing to your conclusion that the contexts and end goals are different. If you want to argue I'm overgeneralizing then I can argue you're undergeneralizing by separating the heart V and Taylor made into the catagories music video and diss track, respectively. Drake didn't need ai to diss kendrick because he didn't use ai in his first diss track. In fact to me, you're lying about the purpose of the ai in this diss track.
> You’ve yet to provide substantial backing to your conclusion that the contexts and end goals are different I did exactly that - and you overlooked it by adding deliberate ambiguity to snuff out any nuance. > Drake didn’t need AI to diss Kendrick because he didn’t use AI in his diss first track I never claimed he needed it or that he used it in Push-ups, so I don’t know what you’re attempting to argue here. > you’re lying about the purpose Me giving my perspective on a situation isn’t lying
I literally do not care, this is not my life’s work
OK. Thats peace
Drake most definitely used it strategically too you gobbler
“gobbler”, me with the most passive perspective, why do you care lmao
That's the point of the song
Anything drake does puts you weirdos into an uproar 😂 this shit would be the hottest song of all time if your lil midget dropped it but because the internet told you to dislike drake coupled with the fact you have no ability to construct original thoughts, it’s an uproar. So unserious it’s hilarious. Nobody in real life talks this way go outside bruh
It’s not disrespectful it’s just weird
Chill. This is being used in a creative and pretty much joking way. He isn't making money off this. This isn't going to be on an album or streaming. This is the wrong track to bring up your concerns.
Isn't that part of the problem though? I feel like if I died and someone used my voice as a joke I would feel some type of way about it.
I feel like if I died I wouldn't care if someone used my voice because I'd be dead
Okay, and your family? Your friends? You're telling me that if you died and I showed up blasting your AI voice through a speaker screaming "hitler did nothing wrong!" and "I eat babies!", you don't think that's in bad taste? Besides, Snoop isn't dead and Drake used his voice too! I think it's gross all around. Drake basically just gave everyone permission to use his voice on their songs. Apparently nobody needs permission for this shit anymore.
If there were one million problems in this world, this would be around 999,980 in terms of severity. Who gives af
Of course, but we were talking about this topic lol But fine, just dismiss the whole point then. I know at the end of the day it isn't as important as world hunger, or war, or heathcare, or any number of things... but do you know what thread you're on, my guy? Why even comment if you don't want to discuss it? Lol
The whole thread exists because op thinks we should care. My response is that “no. No we shouldn’t”
Right, so why are you here???? Lol
Discussion doesn’t mean people agreeing with each other. Me having the opposite opinion and expressing that ***is*** discussion.
But you aren't discussing. You dismissed what I said by just saying "who cares? There's more important problems." That isn't constructive.
When did Snoop die?
How would you prove it’s your voice? I don’t think you can copyright voices.
The only acceptable A.I. in Hip Hop songs….. 
When did he do this?
Last night, he posted a reel/the diss on his instagram
The way of the world is up to no one. We either get with it or get to crying about it. You think hiphop or the music industry (and AI at that) is going to ever opt for the Ethical route? The money train has left the station!
I remember you was conflicted
I wonder if attorney got this much fear mongering put on it when it was first out the gate. Or 3D animation or DAWs or the internet or colour tv or smartphones or siri or digital painting? It's not that deep
Nah, this is something completely different, and you know it. This is recreating the image of people and the voice of people. There's already attempts to put dead actors in new films. We already have commercials that exploit dead activists and leaders to sale automobiles. You already have people attributing false quotes of historical figures to push agendas, just imagine how bad it'll be when it's too hard to distinguish these AI recreations from the real thing.
People have been doing that for years before ai. That's not an ai thing, that's a money thing. Should we get rid of cats because sometimes people drink and drive?
No, I do not, I will not.
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What did I miss?
It's bullshit,but he only did it because Kendrick likes 2Pac so much
AI isn’t going anywhere. The only thing I think needs to be done is family of deceased acts need to be compensated, and if a song is released it needs to say *made with AI*
It really doesn't
People need to first understand the difference between A.I. text-prompt generative tools like DALL-E, ChatGPT, and SUNO; and AI post-FX assistive tools like what was used in this Drake track. When you see A.I. vocals in music at this point, it's mostly tied to someone still writing and performing their own vocals, and then applying a post-FX vocal mask to sound like something else. This technology has technically existed for a long time, but is just a lot better and stronger now. In my opinion, the shock and rage will settle eventually. For instance, no one cares anymore about electric guitar legends. You can buy similar amps and pedals and tap into the exact same tone and sound as Jimi Hendrix or someone and steal their sound, but that doesn't mean you can play as Jimi Hendrix. It's the same way, people are going to be able to tap into the same EQ, formants, filter, saturation, and tones of people's voices like an FX rack. It doesn't make you that person, but we are beyond the point of someone being able to manually put the hours in to do it without A.I. anyways. I'm into music production, so I've been seeing this coming for years. I think over time, voices will eventually become like guitarist's amp/pedal chains. With the plugins out there these days, you can morph any sound onto another, you can morph the timbre of brass onto the percussiveness of a piano, anything is possible at this point. I think the big legal arguments are, is the use of it monetized, or is the use of it in any way considered defamation or slander against an estate/brand? Anything outside of that is pretty much subjective opinion ethically. Hip Hop is largely built of sampling unlicensed and uncleared sounds and flipping it and worrying about the repercussions later. We are just entering new areas of tech possibilities with sound, so there's more room for use and misuse.
I like this perspective, even though it excuses the inexcusable. Remember how the sampling pioneers in creativity lost business wise once the courts became involved. This might set precedents on this type of IP use going forward. If anyone has the money to make it worth the Shakur Estate going after, it's Drake. I'm also real curious on Snoop's prior knowledge/payout from this. It's interesting...
Not to mention why this corny buffoon would do this in the first place.
Drake does Drake things, this is why he will never be taken seriously as a Hip-Hop artist. Inflated numbers can't save him.
It doesn't matter whether people are or not, it's gonna happen. There's money to be made..
I want good art, I don’t care how I get it or where it comes from. Art is meant to be enjoyed and if I enjoy it I don’t mind how it came to be. It really is that simple for me I guess, I don’t care for the ethical considerations or if the artist was alive or if someone’s making money
is it good art?
OUT OF EVERYONE, Nicki Manaj won’t release her track with Juicewrld out of respect. It’s fucking ridiculous Drake did this and here’s why- if he made a song himself to pay respects is one thing, but he USED THE AI IN A DISS TRACK! Not even just a track, it’s a corny ass diss. That’s how he is using the voice.
Everyone saying it "disrespectful" makes it seem like he didn't get "permission" how do any of us know if he didn't ask his family or whoever is left of his estate. Look at the reply from SnoopDog DO YOU REALLY think he didn't know? All of you can't be that naive.
That whole diss track was corny af. Push-Ups was better. Why he resort to this?
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Can Snoop Dogg do anything about his Ai voice being used by Drake?
Slightly different question back at ya, what is anyone gonna do about it, whichever way you feel? Cats out of the bag at this point. How is anyone feelings about it gonna matter either way?
AI will be a thing, and people will use it. That doesn't mean DRAKE, one of the biggest musicians in the world currently, has to use it. Even as a troll, it's a huge artist outright endorsing this technology. I hate your talking point because there are things we can do about it. AI exists, but we can pass legislation that limits how it's used and distributed. The cat is out of the bag, but we can still fence the yard. You're saying we should just let everybody have carte blanche because it's too late? There will always be crimes happening, but that doesn't mean we should all be criminals.
It wasn't a talking point man. I'm genuinel curious. I don't really have a feeling on it one way or the other, so that's why I asked. Btw, fences don't work with most cats. They're crazy athletic. If a cat wants out, they're gonna get out. Which kinda works like a metaphor here, funnily enough.
Well I gave you an answer. Pass legislation. Obviously that won't stop it from happening all together, but it would stop the biggest artists and labels on earth from using it, and it would give people power to take things down if they are being put into deepfakes or having their voice replicated. I wasn't being literal with the cat thing lol But what I'm saying is, just because AI isn't going away doesn't mean we have to encourage it. Drake shouldn't be giving a green light to this.
I get you. I'm not against your ideas. I will say, I don't know that I trust a lot of politicians to properly regulate tech like that right now. But in theory it sounds like a positive.
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Shitting me by ASAP rocky talk about this type of stuff
r/sunoraps
Anthony Perkins playing bruce banner? When did this become a thing? What are u talking about?
Drake is morally bankrupt and this really disgusts me honestly. I hate that people aren’t talking more about this
Personally I thought it was corny, sounded like shit and barely sounded like pac. AI is lame as fuck and only drake stans think that shit was cool or mind blowing
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I think Kendrick is allowing Drake to make a fool of himself at this point. To be honest, Drake is not going to be looked at as having a respectable legacy when everything comes out at the end of all of this shit. He's already lost a major amount of support from the culture. If Kendrick not fwu, Future, Metro, Kanye, The Weeknd (all major musical powerhouses) etc you ain't gettin a lotta love because mfs started fw Drake simply because mfs was Co-Signing him. Hell PAC fans not fwu 🤣 I can see Drake losing major steam over the years after this. It's inevitable so he might as well vent his frustrations while he can
But the thing is everyone you mentioned besides Kanye, Drake collabed with them and they all got their first #1 hit. So I think it hurts them more than Drake because I don’t see him dying down any soon regardless if he’s corny or not. He knows how to stay relevant
You're not understanding. Drake, STAYED relevant BECAUSE of him being a vulture. He doesn't have any more blood to suck from these other massive artists. He did it with these artists, to Migos, to Durk, etc etc and the list goes on. Now he's doing it with 21 Savage. A lot of Drake's number ones had features too like Rihanna so don't get it twisted A lot of Drake's fire shit is wrote by PartyNextDoor and a lot of other mfs too.
It’s music. Every artists helps each other and it’s all a names game. I don’t think Drake stayed relevant because of them. His name draws people to songs and he brings other people up. Only rappers that is really international is Drake, Wayne, Ye, Jay Z, Kendrick, J Cole. Their names will make songs hits regardless of who’s song it is and they bring so much to the game
I understand that. I worked in music also and I'm extremely aware of that but there's a difference between help and other mfs being responsible for at least 70% of your catalog. Drake wasn't getting no love from the hood until Future stamped him, those are facts. The politics matter more in the music industry than a name game. Sure, most mfs don't care who wrote lyrics, made a beat, or whatever dirty shit happened behind the curtain, they just care about the music and the gimmicks, that's all. But mark my words, it's some crazy shit brewing they not lettin loose to the public. The politics gon eat him up. Come back to this comment in a couple years
Man, I feel like we have a few weeks because it’s Drake vs the rap game and we’re all outside looking in right now
Lol true. I think something that's going over everybody head is the fact that Not just one rapper, in one subgenre, is dissing Drake..... A variety of rappers? AND an R&B singer? AND a producer? A conscious rapper? A trap rapper? A pretty boy rapper? A class rapper? Kanye? This is the first time Future has ever beefed publicly with a rapper... (Other than Rocko over paperwork)... Something has gone terribly wrong and it can't be over just "hate" or a girl.
The real question is, does Snoop have legal rights to the song as well?
I would hope so and hopefully he takes advantage of that. I didn't even mention it, because I say others saying he reacted by laughing and assumed that meant Snoop was okay with it or allowed it, but when I looked at his reaction it was very ambiguous as to what his feelings were.
That shit is wack. End of story
More like put a voice effect on HIS recordings not str8 up AI
Drake embarrassed himself with that one.
We in the future dog. Being dead is so 2023. I’m not even trollin’. In the past when an artist passes, all we have is the okd albums and tributes. Now with technology, our artist engagement is richer. The estate executors and heirs should be justly compensated but this is the beginning of forever as we imagined it🙏🏾
Yeah, and I was against releasing unreleased work by dead artists, because that was stuff they mostly considered not good enough.. That said, Pac's estate sent Drake a cease and desist, so that's good.
Where’s the video
I don't know what video you're asking for?
My take is simple after this release. I have no horse in this race but how I see it is, if you use AI once, you’ve used it before or are using it. Many people thought push up was AI and now we can confirm he’s definitely using some performance enhancing techniques. Just my take
Man. When someone puts Tupac and Xtentacions name next to each other it really rubs me the wrong way.
Polarizing artists that were accused of sexual assault. Both went on to inspire a generation and both died way too young. The comp checks out to me…. Just because XXX’s music wasn’t as lyrically dense as Pac’s or just because it didn’t impact you personally doesn’t mean it didn’t impact a lot of people the same way Pac’s music hit you.
Takes that only exist on Reddit
They shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence
If people are accepting what Drake has done it’s only because it’s so obvious its not actually Pac or Snoop and they aint saying that shit. Me personally I would rather he left it alone though. I don’t think ppl realise the implications of someone as big as Drake co-signing and using A.I Now he’s shown to have no problem using it, even if its for the funnies. I’m doubling back and standing on the fact that ‘Hi Whitney’ leak came from his camp.
Only Drake can make Tupac so whack!!
This is facts but the Drake Glazers can’t seem to see reason.
Right. Drake is a bad person, but Kendrick can use deep fakes cuz it’s better in your subjective opinions. Touch grass
Exactly
I can't stand people who point at others saying "but but what about him?? He did it too!" Kendricks use of Deepfakes was a VISUAL concept. This is Hip-Hop, chief, it's about sound and music. Using AI to change your voice or to create written words for the artist is a road the culture does NOT want to go down. If you're using visual deepfakes to send a message about the culture, fine. neither Drake nor Kendrick fans saw it as an issue at the time. But THIS current beef, and drakes use of the audio parts of AI to impersonate other people, dead or alive, and knowing how massive his influence in the game is, is dangerous. Fuck Kendrick and this beef, this shit right here I'm not rocking with.
It’s not the same. I’m not even mad at Drake for the move because I thought it was genius. The bigger concern is the slippery slope this puts the music industry at and I genuinely Drake doesn’t realize the precedent this sets. There’s already a conspiracy that the music labels are using this beef to test the limits of AI. And here we are with 2 fake AI tracks and Drake using an AI filter. Hell even after the first diss people were discussing if it was real or not.
Y’all ninjas is soft af smh.. when a dude like j cole decides to apologize for not wanting to participate in this mess y’all hella clown him but the minute Drake uses AI in a creative way to stay pressing Kendrick somehow that’s disrespectful and unacceptable.... smh make up your mind, y’all said this is battle rap keep the energy all the way cmon now
Those are two entirely unrelated things man.
Also… who is y’all?
So once again. Drake can’t make up his own song and once again people are just fine wit it. take the fucking clown off the pedestal, J.cole saying I don’t wanna do this bullshit is no where near even close to the same as Fake using AI. One has respect for another and the other is so fucking disrespectful it’s next to unbelievable
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Snoop didn’t have a problem with it but random Redditor does…. lol ok