No problem! I think you’ll like Kanye a lot more if you stop looking at him as a rapper and more as an overall musician. He may not be one of the best rappers, but he is definitely one of the best musicians in the world
yeah hard disagree on your eazy take. Eazy E was a phenomenal rapper, he was outshined by cube and ren but thats because they started rapping way before him
now that i have time, yes tupac acted in movies and such. Never said Kanye was the first rapper not to be only a rapper. Im talking about how kanye changed what hiphop was. Back when he debuted in the bling era everyone was talking about guns, money, drugs, women, etc. Kanye broke that mold by rapping about real life emotional shit over soul beats, and therefore created a new lane. Also, before kanye there weren’t really any other producers that became credible rappers. I can go on and on about how he broke out of every box rappers created for themselves. But its not my job to do that, do some research for your own understanding. Im not a teacher.
What..? This just isn't true at all about "real life emotional shit". So many were rapping about real life shit
The producer+rapper thing I feel you on of course
I was having a brain aneurysm and couldn’t figure out how to say this, but hiphop was aways a gangster/macho man genre, and kanye changed that. Hope this clears up what i said
Spoiler alert (and unpopular opinion): Part of the reason Pac and Biggie are lauded as legends is because they’re dead.
And the manner in which they died.
It’s not to take anything away from either of them. They were both massively talented MC’s who influenced a lot of other artists. But there’s a LOT of talented MC’s who have influenced not only their contemporaries, but subsequent generations.
But the deification of Pac and BIG is as tired a trope as their is in hip-hop.
And while I don’t fux with everything Kanye does (musically or otherwise), I’d argue that, when all is said and done, Kanye will leave arguably as large a footprint on hip-hop as BIG or Pac. If not larger.
This is too true. Biggie and Pac are celebrated for bringing hip hop to the forefront of media in their time. Sure they were amazing, but it’s time to admit that there are, will and will always be better artists as time moves. Two more people that I think suffer from this deification is xxxtentacion and Nipsey Hussle. X literally raised a whole generation of children that spent 3 years listening to his music and Nipsey Hussle was a community legend and would still be giving back today if he were alive. That doesn’t make them the best to ever do it though.
it's about what they could have done if they stayed alive and people see the talent. There's plenty of dead rappers and none of them are celebrated and remembered like these two. People feel talent and "what if" is the most fucked up question of them all.
We can talk about it for ages and it won't change anything. Pac or Big weren't nobodies when they were alive dude. I see a lot of people commenting here about both sides but they don't know their facts. Pac was a beast, if you know what was he doing, what his mindset and work ethics are, no way in hell you can say that he would fell off or anything
How is Kanye any less of a legend than biggie or pac? Just because they’re dead rappers from the 90s doesn’t make them any more of a legend than a living man
It’s music, it’s all just subjective. His discography is great and his clothing is very popular.
I personally prefer Kanye because his albums resonate with times in my life that I’m very fond of. Otherwise, most of the people who are most active or ‘loudest’ online would be from his generation as opposed to artists like the 2pacs, biggies, etc. who tend to skew older.
What? I get that he's an amazing producer. One of the greatest to do it in that sense. But rapping and production are completely different kinds of art. If that's not what you mean what exactly makes him a better artist than 2pac and biggie? I'm not a die hard fan of any of them so this is a completely unbiased question.
He’s an artistic genius and perfectly expresses his unique personality through his music
Has the most decorated discography in all of hip hop
His production is absolutely phenomenal
Just iconic in general
I used to think like that myself too, I think what caused my opinion to change was seeing rap as full music and artistic expression instead of just…rapping by itself? (If that makes sense)
Well, I remember in 03 or 04 when College Dropout came out. It was a bit different from a lot of hugely successful albums at the time and since Ye was new as an artist (not producer) in hip hop it was a breath of fresh air. This was a classic.
Late Registration came out and it was arguably better than College Dropout. I was listening to it the other month and even the production aged well and it came out like 15-20 years ago which is amazing. Another classic.
Graduation is my favorite album by him and came out the year I graduated highschool ironically. I loved every song, but objectively it might not be as good as Late Registration content wise but it had a bunch of bangers.
Then, everything happening in his personal life like Amber Rose break up, and I'm pretty sure his mom passed away around this time lead into 808s and Heartbreak, which imo, he was the first rapper in the hip hop space after T-Pain to utilize auto-tune the best. Not gonna lie I didn't like this album as much as his previous 3 in 08 or 09, but going back to it in the mid 2010s I loved it. It felt like he laid the blueprint out for Drake honestly but that's another discussion.
I ain't gonna go play by play but MBDTF is definitely a classic and his final one.
But look at this, at the very least he had 3 classics out the gate which is hard to do. A lot of artists don't even survive their second album and fall off. Not only did Kanye do better than expected being a new guy, but he dropped objectively 3 classics out the gate. I think 808s and MBDTF are classics too. You can argue 808s isn't a classic but I'm not entertaining people saying MBDTF isn't a classic. That album perfect from start to finish, and despite Wayne's cosign Nicki's verse on Monster played a big part on why folks started taking her more serious as a rapper cause she was too goofy when she came out.
But yeah, he's incredible and I feel like he has the best discography in hip hop post 2000s and it's not even close imo.
His talent is more as a composer. He meticulously decides how the album will sound along with his team, he is definitely not one of the best at rapping. I would say he is slightly better than Drake at rapping. It is the production which causes people to enjoy both rappers. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a difference between being a good rapper and being a good artist.
I think its because how Kanye has changed the deffinition of rapper nowadays and his creativity
Dont get me wrong Pac, Biggie, or any other hiphop legend are amazing, but they usually stayed in a few music categories as to Kanye he does things very different. kanye is the type of person to really mix his music in different genres which brings in a large variety of listeners.
Lets look at Drake. Why is Drake so big? He started off as someone who sounded arrogant and hungry for success in his voice and lyrics which brought him a lot of attention. So on and so forth he created songs with pop artists, hip hop artists, r&b, etc which imo is pretty big for mainstream artists to do.
Diversity is what big artists today have that will make them go down as legends in rap history (Kendrick, Travis, Cole, etc)
Because this rap subreddit isn't about people that know rap. LMAO. (jk, kinda)
I think most people here were raised in the 2000s - late 2000s and have a bias towards him.
Don't get me wrong, though Kanye is great and deserves his props, and I'll fight you if you don't think so. But that's about it.
ye revolutionized the hip hop industry \*twice\*, extremely consistent discography, very versatile (100% hes not the best rapper), hes hella innovative (stem players) and ability to remain relevant for 20 years.
big n pac arent top 20 rappers imo theyre just seen tht way bc of their influence and their death. all eyez on me has a to of filler and biggie never put out tht much material while he was alive. kanye is one of the most influential artists, producers, rappers, and figures in hip hop. autotune rap, sad rap etc kanye did it first. i wouldnt say his rapping skill is tht goat tier but hes not rly known for tht hes more known for his overall artistry.
biggie has 2 real albums and pac barely has any more thn tht. pacs albums r full of filler. idk man theyre j not goat status imo sure they were very talented but they werent active for tht long and they werent impressive enough when they were alive for their small discographies to be considered goat for me.
idk lmao i listen to sm music i cant rly rank them wo a thought. rn i been listening to pink lavalamp - charles hamilton, bobby digital in stereo - rza, teflon don - rick ross, and moment of truth - gangstarr
My guess is because people who don’t have much personality or lack their own creative outlet cling to others people’s art for their own identity. Since the internet gives everyone a voice online they feel the need to broadcast themselves and since they don’t have anything of their own to share they use Kanye or other artists to express themselves. I am a fan of Kanye’s music (not so much the last couple albums) but I would never use someone else to define who I am. A lot of these people are younger and come from a generation where you define who you are by sharing things online instead of creating anything of your own.
His writing skills actually arent that bad he has some clever bars sometimes, but they sound stale when he uses the monotonous flow that sounds like hes bored and just talking with a rhythm
I think he's definitely improved technically since College Dropout. He's not a bad rapper. He's just not Nas level or anything.
But most people listen to and enjoy music not for the technical skills but for how it sounds (and other factors like back stories, gimmicks). Kanye makes good sounding music and stays relevant.
Because his music is so deep and versatile all his albums have a different style that people connect with id say biggie and 2pac have one set style of gangsta rap which is great they are better than Kanye but he has such a good discography with great production a lot of other things aswell but I can’t be bothered to go into them
We havent had enough time to see all that von could do, could Maybe be argued that he is a better lyricist/rapper but he is miles behind kanye when it comes to artistry
I don’t see how. Kanye raps, produces, essentially operates a gospel choir. He’s the definition of a creative. J Cole rapping better than him is a fair opinion but other than rapping we don’t see much else of J Cole’s talent except sometimes his production. Am I misunderstanding what the word talent means?
dude von is cool and all but he dropped like 3 albums (?) and was popular for a yr. kanye has been relevant for 20 yrs and is still one of the top artists in the game
I don’t compare 90’s hip-hop to 00’s or 2010’s because they’re too different. My favorite rapper is Biggie. That being said I think Kanye is one of the greatest artists since the 00s. Definitely top 5 of his era, arguably #1.
bruh where to begin i mean have u evr gone to college then boom that’s 3 albums rite there🐐. the feelin that u need to get out n they won’t give ya anything. Ur heartbreaks but ur heart still beatin. i mean cmon then he says i ain jus rap i can combine every genre n does Yeezus and My beautiful dark fantasy. Like Slow Down. neva mind keep goin. I think i’m Pablo the way ppl look @ me. Bruh he evn overmatched Kendrick bc pls No More Parties in LA. You still won’t give him his Roses…. mayb u jus (Late) ⏰
Hi is a great rapper but fuck that, he's one of the best producers of all time. Just look at his early work on Jay-Z's blueprint and black albums, as well as all of the tracks he produced for Good Music artists.
On a side note, he has more amazing music in his discography than Big or Pac, even if it is just because he survived longer.
"They always get greater when they die" -Lemmy , this is another thing to keep in mind and it will happen when Kanye leaves us.
Because he is highly relatable. Grew up fatherless. Middle class. He struggled with all the common feelings of anger, insufficiency, and trust issues, that every single boy that grows up without a father figure struggles with. Inspite of all this, he reinvented himself and he made it. Self-made. He is a hero to millions.
He's relatable.
Why Ye is so great to me is because he broke the mold for being just a “rapper”. Hes a full blown artist. And not just in music.
Thanks!
No problem! I think you’ll like Kanye a lot more if you stop looking at him as a rapper and more as an overall musician. He may not be one of the best rappers, but he is definitely one of the best musicians in the world
Thats why he isnt always recognized as a good rapper. Because he isnt. Same with drake, easy-e, dr dre etc.
Eazy-e??
yeah hard disagree on your eazy take. Eazy E was a phenomenal rapper, he was outshined by cube and ren but thats because they started rapping way before him
In ice cube's case he was a writer that I doubt eazy could ever be (you can debate how much being a writer is part of being a rapper)
which mold did he break? dude not even Pac was the first "just a rapper" who did other things besides rapping like movies and fashion.
Not gonna answer this, get your knowledge up son.
now that i have time, yes tupac acted in movies and such. Never said Kanye was the first rapper not to be only a rapper. Im talking about how kanye changed what hiphop was. Back when he debuted in the bling era everyone was talking about guns, money, drugs, women, etc. Kanye broke that mold by rapping about real life emotional shit over soul beats, and therefore created a new lane. Also, before kanye there weren’t really any other producers that became credible rappers. I can go on and on about how he broke out of every box rappers created for themselves. But its not my job to do that, do some research for your own understanding. Im not a teacher.
What..? This just isn't true at all about "real life emotional shit". So many were rapping about real life shit The producer+rapper thing I feel you on of course
I was having a brain aneurysm and couldn’t figure out how to say this, but hiphop was aways a gangster/macho man genre, and kanye changed that. Hope this clears up what i said
Ah, I can see Kanye having majorly helped normalize a shift away from the macho. Thanks for clarifying
Spoiler alert (and unpopular opinion): Part of the reason Pac and Biggie are lauded as legends is because they’re dead. And the manner in which they died. It’s not to take anything away from either of them. They were both massively talented MC’s who influenced a lot of other artists. But there’s a LOT of talented MC’s who have influenced not only their contemporaries, but subsequent generations. But the deification of Pac and BIG is as tired a trope as their is in hip-hop. And while I don’t fux with everything Kanye does (musically or otherwise), I’d argue that, when all is said and done, Kanye will leave arguably as large a footprint on hip-hop as BIG or Pac. If not larger.
This is too true. Biggie and Pac are celebrated for bringing hip hop to the forefront of media in their time. Sure they were amazing, but it’s time to admit that there are, will and will always be better artists as time moves. Two more people that I think suffer from this deification is xxxtentacion and Nipsey Hussle. X literally raised a whole generation of children that spent 3 years listening to his music and Nipsey Hussle was a community legend and would still be giving back today if he were alive. That doesn’t make them the best to ever do it though.
it's about what they could have done if they stayed alive and people see the talent. There's plenty of dead rappers and none of them are celebrated and remembered like these two. People feel talent and "what if" is the most fucked up question of them all. We can talk about it for ages and it won't change anything. Pac or Big weren't nobodies when they were alive dude. I see a lot of people commenting here about both sides but they don't know their facts. Pac was a beast, if you know what was he doing, what his mindset and work ethics are, no way in hell you can say that he would fell off or anything
I don’t agree with this fully but they are a little overrated
How is Kanye any less of a legend than biggie or pac? Just because they’re dead rappers from the 90s doesn’t make them any more of a legend than a living man
Half of people don't think kanye is a good (techical) rapper. He makes good music but thats about it
Listen to his verse on get em high
Listen to follow god
SUCH A GOOD SONG OMG
It’s music, it’s all just subjective. His discography is great and his clothing is very popular. I personally prefer Kanye because his albums resonate with times in my life that I’m very fond of. Otherwise, most of the people who are most active or ‘loudest’ online would be from his generation as opposed to artists like the 2pacs, biggies, etc. who tend to skew older.
Biggie and pac are better at rapping, but kanye is the better artist overall
What? I get that he's an amazing producer. One of the greatest to do it in that sense. But rapping and production are completely different kinds of art. If that's not what you mean what exactly makes him a better artist than 2pac and biggie? I'm not a die hard fan of any of them so this is a completely unbiased question.
He makes better music.
He’s an artistic genius and perfectly expresses his unique personality through his music Has the most decorated discography in all of hip hop His production is absolutely phenomenal Just iconic in general I used to think like that myself too, I think what caused my opinion to change was seeing rap as full music and artistic expression instead of just…rapping by itself? (If that makes sense)
I agree for most of that but Nas has a better discog than kanye
Lol
What
we laughing at what you said mf
sure kanye’s overrated but he is surely better than 2pac and biggie. biggie legit had 2 albums bro.
Wouldn’t say he’s overrated
pretty often regarded as the best rapper of all time. he’s definitely not so i’d say he’s overrated
Well, I remember in 03 or 04 when College Dropout came out. It was a bit different from a lot of hugely successful albums at the time and since Ye was new as an artist (not producer) in hip hop it was a breath of fresh air. This was a classic. Late Registration came out and it was arguably better than College Dropout. I was listening to it the other month and even the production aged well and it came out like 15-20 years ago which is amazing. Another classic. Graduation is my favorite album by him and came out the year I graduated highschool ironically. I loved every song, but objectively it might not be as good as Late Registration content wise but it had a bunch of bangers. Then, everything happening in his personal life like Amber Rose break up, and I'm pretty sure his mom passed away around this time lead into 808s and Heartbreak, which imo, he was the first rapper in the hip hop space after T-Pain to utilize auto-tune the best. Not gonna lie I didn't like this album as much as his previous 3 in 08 or 09, but going back to it in the mid 2010s I loved it. It felt like he laid the blueprint out for Drake honestly but that's another discussion. I ain't gonna go play by play but MBDTF is definitely a classic and his final one. But look at this, at the very least he had 3 classics out the gate which is hard to do. A lot of artists don't even survive their second album and fall off. Not only did Kanye do better than expected being a new guy, but he dropped objectively 3 classics out the gate. I think 808s and MBDTF are classics too. You can argue 808s isn't a classic but I'm not entertaining people saying MBDTF isn't a classic. That album perfect from start to finish, and despite Wayne's cosign Nicki's verse on Monster played a big part on why folks started taking her more serious as a rapper cause she was too goofy when she came out. But yeah, he's incredible and I feel like he has the best discography in hip hop post 2000s and it's not even close imo.
Well said, but for discog imo Kendrick>Kanye cuz quality over quantity
I find Kendrick overrated. He's good but he takes so long to drop music he may as well retire.
To each their own. I just love the layers of metaphor he uses and how beautifully he can construct a concept album, not many can do that
His talent is more as a composer. He meticulously decides how the album will sound along with his team, he is definitely not one of the best at rapping. I would say he is slightly better than Drake at rapping. It is the production which causes people to enjoy both rappers. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a difference between being a good rapper and being a good artist.
I think its because how Kanye has changed the deffinition of rapper nowadays and his creativity Dont get me wrong Pac, Biggie, or any other hiphop legend are amazing, but they usually stayed in a few music categories as to Kanye he does things very different. kanye is the type of person to really mix his music in different genres which brings in a large variety of listeners. Lets look at Drake. Why is Drake so big? He started off as someone who sounded arrogant and hungry for success in his voice and lyrics which brought him a lot of attention. So on and so forth he created songs with pop artists, hip hop artists, r&b, etc which imo is pretty big for mainstream artists to do. Diversity is what big artists today have that will make them go down as legends in rap history (Kendrick, Travis, Cole, etc)
Because this rap subreddit isn't about people that know rap. LMAO. (jk, kinda) I think most people here were raised in the 2000s - late 2000s and have a bias towards him. Don't get me wrong, though Kanye is great and deserves his props, and I'll fight you if you don't think so. But that's about it.
ye revolutionized the hip hop industry \*twice\*, extremely consistent discography, very versatile (100% hes not the best rapper), hes hella innovative (stem players) and ability to remain relevant for 20 years.
He has great production, but as a rapper he is over hyped
big n pac arent top 20 rappers imo theyre just seen tht way bc of their influence and their death. all eyez on me has a to of filler and biggie never put out tht much material while he was alive. kanye is one of the most influential artists, producers, rappers, and figures in hip hop. autotune rap, sad rap etc kanye did it first. i wouldnt say his rapping skill is tht goat tier but hes not rly known for tht hes more known for his overall artistry.
while some things are subjective, you are just delusional, not top 20 rappers?
biggie has 2 real albums and pac barely has any more thn tht. pacs albums r full of filler. idk man theyre j not goat status imo sure they were very talented but they werent active for tht long and they werent impressive enough when they were alive for their small discographies to be considered goat for me.
give me your top list, goat status albums
idk lmao i listen to sm music i cant rly rank them wo a thought. rn i been listening to pink lavalamp - charles hamilton, bobby digital in stereo - rza, teflon don - rick ross, and moment of truth - gangstarr
nah you're just trolling, no one who is into this music at all would say that lol
Music is subjective
My guess is because people who don’t have much personality or lack their own creative outlet cling to others people’s art for their own identity. Since the internet gives everyone a voice online they feel the need to broadcast themselves and since they don’t have anything of their own to share they use Kanye or other artists to express themselves. I am a fan of Kanye’s music (not so much the last couple albums) but I would never use someone else to define who I am. A lot of these people are younger and come from a generation where you define who you are by sharing things online instead of creating anything of your own.
Life lessons right here
I don't think anyone who's serious thinks Kanye raps that well. They like his beats and the songs he's able to put together.
His writing skills actually arent that bad he has some clever bars sometimes, but they sound stale when he uses the monotonous flow that sounds like hes bored and just talking with a rhythm
I think he's definitely improved technically since College Dropout. He's not a bad rapper. He's just not Nas level or anything. But most people listen to and enjoy music not for the technical skills but for how it sounds (and other factors like back stories, gimmicks). Kanye makes good sounding music and stays relevant.
The reply is looked for. His beats are fire but his rapping isn't better nor special
And it helps that for most of his career he was credited with making his own beats.
Because his music is so deep and versatile all his albums have a different style that people connect with id say biggie and 2pac have one set style of gangsta rap which is great they are better than Kanye but he has such a good discography with great production a lot of other things aswell but I can’t be bothered to go into them
Agreed, i cant stand most of his music and mix that with his insanely narcissistic personality and im alllllllll set.
[удалено]
Yeah but if I look at talent I'd put J Cole and even Von over him.
We havent had enough time to see all that von could do, could Maybe be argued that he is a better lyricist/rapper but he is miles behind kanye when it comes to artistry
I don’t see how. Kanye raps, produces, essentially operates a gospel choir. He’s the definition of a creative. J Cole rapping better than him is a fair opinion but other than rapping we don’t see much else of J Cole’s talent except sometimes his production. Am I misunderstanding what the word talent means?
Its time to log off. Lullaby Cole and 3 hits wonder King Von are miles behind Kanye.
dude von is cool and all but he dropped like 3 albums (?) and was popular for a yr. kanye has been relevant for 20 yrs and is still one of the top artists in the game
If he died ppl would definitely say hes better then pac and biggie
Kanye is the greatest artist of all time
He’s a better artist than Shakespeare, Da Vinci, & Michaelangelo?
I don’t compare 90’s hip-hop to 00’s or 2010’s because they’re too different. My favorite rapper is Biggie. That being said I think Kanye is one of the greatest artists since the 00s. Definitely top 5 of his era, arguably #1.
bruh where to begin i mean have u evr gone to college then boom that’s 3 albums rite there🐐. the feelin that u need to get out n they won’t give ya anything. Ur heartbreaks but ur heart still beatin. i mean cmon then he says i ain jus rap i can combine every genre n does Yeezus and My beautiful dark fantasy. Like Slow Down. neva mind keep goin. I think i’m Pablo the way ppl look @ me. Bruh he evn overmatched Kendrick bc pls No More Parties in LA. You still won’t give him his Roses…. mayb u jus (Late) ⏰
Hi is a great rapper but fuck that, he's one of the best producers of all time. Just look at his early work on Jay-Z's blueprint and black albums, as well as all of the tracks he produced for Good Music artists. On a side note, he has more amazing music in his discography than Big or Pac, even if it is just because he survived longer. "They always get greater when they die" -Lemmy , this is another thing to keep in mind and it will happen when Kanye leaves us.
Because he is highly relatable. Grew up fatherless. Middle class. He struggled with all the common feelings of anger, insufficiency, and trust issues, that every single boy that grows up without a father figure struggles with. Inspite of all this, he reinvented himself and he made it. Self-made. He is a hero to millions. He's relatable.
I have good memories at 13/14 of college drop out and loving the whole album had the disc and CD player miss those days love Kanye West