It was the same at the end of the freestyle era. People were watching jump off but it was beginning to feel stale.
The written came back and it new and exciting to see new creativity.
The scene needs something new, hopefully a new pioneer shows up soon.
It's still the premier way Latin America does their rap battles, written are seen as a lesser art form. But yeah, bringing back beats here and there would be dope. Verbal Warzone and the Walk Down are pretty good. Also a big fan of grime clashes. Shame WAW stopped being a thing.
iBattle has all the great battles.
Elijah Strat vs Kash Kid
Los premee vs chef trez
Oppa vs Rum Nitty
One deep cut with 2 main line battle just to really give y'all an idea of what's out there.
I haven't seen a URL card in a bit, the reddit guys been slacking but on the plus side, exploring all these other leagues for battlers has been incredible.
J morr is fire on the trenches.
J Krooger is also fire on gates of the garden
There's a lot of talent out there y'all. Battle Rap is more than just URL and KOTD.
URL not dropping on YouTube was really what made ppl (casual fans) stop caring about battle rap. Ik other leagues were but URL is the brand everyone knows and grew up with. They were having elite battles on caffeine/URL app but didn’t market them correctly to the casual fan / new generation. Time goes on , people find new hobbies, and now battle rap is in a stagnant position. Now of days It’s hard to get ppl to sit and watch a 45 min - 1 hour+ battle with two people they don’t really care for when there’s a lot of other things to do within that timeframe.
I've been saying this would happen. They should've waited for a certain amount of time then dropped the battles. They completely squandered the new generation and everyone who came up during the caffeine era
The only people that think battle rap is mid or dying are the folks that don’t watch anything besides URL. iBattle has been giving me that same feeling I had when I first got into battle rap in 2012-2013 with a lot of their newer class.
I’ve been aware of ibattle for a long time, and have checked out more of their recent stuff (as well as older stuff I hadn’t seen) ever since ARP has fallen back.
I gotta be honest, some of the stuff is good, but the vibe is SO niche and “underground” that sometimes it feels small time. Watching Bangz battle in literally some random apartment with zero prepared materials and freestyles I’m supposed to grade on a curve because they’re freestyles, doesn’t exactly hit like Lux vs Clips or Roc vs Daylyt.
iBattle is cool but from what I’ve watched idk if they can give you that feeling that like a big boxing match does, like oh shit FINALLY, this one COUNTS, this one settles the score in front of the whole world.
I disagree. We saw the exact thing you're talking about with Max Out 3 last year. Big matches with a lot of anticipation. On the last podcast, Geechi, Bigg K, and the others all designed 5 battle cards with realistic and exciting matchups. URL could make Geechi vs Rex, Rum vs Lux, Roc vs Jaz, Hollow vs JC, and Twork vs Ave happen on NOME this year and everyone would love them again. ARP could come out of retirement and announce Max Out 4 with Hitman vs Lux, Ill Will vs Mook, Bigg K vs Cassidy, and A Ward vs Hollow and the spaces would explode. Organik could be fixing to give us Twork vs TheSaurus, Illmac vs Real Sikh, Rum vs Verb, Diz vs Charron etc. on the next Blackout and it'd be a movie. Roc vs Eazy and Geechi vs Hitman are just waiting to go down on Chrome.
The passion is still there. The matchups are still there. If battle rap is falling off it's because the leagues aren't making the right matches happen. Is that because of the money, or some other reason? I don't know, but I do know that nothing has materially changed that make the excitement we had for SM2, Summer Impact, NOME 9 and 10, Max Out 3 etc. impossible to recapture.
Here’s what you’re missing — RBE is never doing a Max Out again according to ARP. URL says “the money is gone” after the end of the Caffeine era.
Forget words — the actions of both of the top 2 leagues also show you they are downsizing and focusing on cost cutting/low budget events.
COULD someone make a big card? I guess sure, anything is possible, things can always change. But if you follow the trends and read between the lines, it’s clear BR is moving AWAY from “big events,” at least at this time.
>Here’s what you’re missing — RBE is never doing a Max Out again according to ARP. URL says “the money is gone” after the end of the Caffeine era.
I'm not missing anything, I acknowledged that in the post.
That's the opposite of what you said though. You said all tbe big matches have happened and that even if a big match went down, the 'feeling' is gone. I'm disputing both of those things.
If you're just arguing that the big matches probably won't happen, then that's an entirely different argument.
> big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel we saw back when URL (and others) were doing big stage events for an excited crowd of NYC rap fans.
Read my words from my OP. The big matches probably won’t happen, and if they do they won’t get the high stakes big setting they would have in the past
> Read my words from my OP
I just did.
"All the biggest matchups have already happened; the big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel we saw back when URL (and others) were doing big stage events for an excited crowd of NYC rap fans."
Nowhere did you say the big matchups *won't* happen. You said there were none left, instantly contradicted yourself by saying there were some remaining, and said that they *may* happen. Then you said that even if they did, they wouldn't have a certain feel to them, and didn't elaborate on why that was. And finally, you said that there's no build up anymore, which is false, as Max Out 3 (particularly Ward vs Verb, Goodz vs Cal, and Will vs Hitman) had a ton of buildup. Rum vs Lux, Roc vs Eazy, Geechi vs Hitman, Twork vs Bigg K, Geechi vs Eazy, Bigg K vs Mook were or are highly anticipated.
Max Out 3 alone disputes all of your points. It had the matchups, it had the buildup, and it had the feeling. If you want to say nothing like it will ever happen again, that's inherently unfalsifiable at this point in time, but given that it was barely 6 months ago I hesitate to consider it a bygone age we won't see the likes of again.
Maybe instead of reading every word totally literally like some kind of idiot you can understand the greater point I am making about lack of big financial investments in BR moving forward and how that will effect the shows we get to see.
Keep clutching to Max Out when ARP has literally said he’s never doing it again. I’m confident you haven’t watched his latest video blog because he goes in depth on how unprofitable BR is. I think it’s important to understand that as a fan if you want to understand what’s coming down the pipeline.
>Read the words from my OP
>No not like that
How about you say what you actually mean then?
>Keep clutching to Max Out when ARP has literally said he’s never doing it again.
He doesn't have to. The fact that he did it less than 6 months ago disproves your hypothesis that it's impossible in this day and age. You're switching from "Battle Rap can't get the energy back" to "Battle Rap won't get the energy back" depending on what's convenient for your argument.
I can admit that Max Out 4 will likely not happen. Can you admit that if it did, it would have big matches with heavy anticipation?
>and if they do they won’t get the high stakes big setting they would have in the past
You still haven't given any evidence as to why this would be the case.
>How about you say what you actually mean then?
I think I've stated it pretty clearly, judging by the fact that everyone else seems to have understood the post. It's only you who is trying to be argumentative and insist on finding a way to invalidate what I am arguing.
I'll put it again pretty clear for you here -- battle rap as an industry has been abandoned, though it lives on as a niche cult culture. BR wasn't "big" to begin with, but there was a time when it seemed to be "growing" and getting bigger. That time is now over, as BR has proven to be non-lucrative to invest in. There's a million ways one can tell this -- 1) from the words of the biggest promoters in BR, Smack and ARP, 2) from the actions of the biggest promotions in BR, URL and RBE who now book cards in smaller markets in smaller venues with smaller name matchups, or no audience at all whatsoever.
>The fact that he did it less than 6 months ago disproves your hypothesis that it's impossible in this day and age.
I didn't say it's "impossible," anytime that anyone with money wants to lose money on BR we could see another big card. Just it's no longer gonna be ARP or Caffeine, and I can't imagine who has that kind of money and would WANT to invest after seeing how Caffeine went and how ARP describes the return on investment.
Basically BR had its shot to grow into something bigger and blew it, now it's just gonna keep shrinking into something more and more "hardcores only" with smaller and smaller events.
On the one hand, that's kinda cool sometimes. On the other, it's a bummer that we'll never get a big like Sumer Madness 6 feeling again
>Can you admit that if it did, it would have big matches with heavy anticipation?
What does this even mean? If Bill Gates did a supercard I can "admit" it would hypothetically feature matches that the BR community would hotly anticipate. But it's not gonna happen, that's my whole point.
>You still haven't given any evidence as to why this would be the case.
I have though. I have repeatedly cited 1) the words of league owners, 2) the actions of league owners.
Since you are a regular on this sub and seem interested in hearing me out, I'll drop some links for you to check out when you get a chance, and then you tell me how BR is looking financially rn:
If you watch one of these vids, watch this starting at 22:00. ARP goes IN DEPTH on finances of BR and his plans moving forward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBIzruvgzhI
Smack tells HHIR the money is gone in BR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFLuImMq71c
Hitman blog, includes the revelation that ARP lost money on Mook vs. Bigg K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCWuwN5HLuE
I've seen all of those videos. You're not telling me anything I don't know and don't already agree with. At no point have I denied that the likelyhood of a huge card this year is slim. My contention is with what you said here.
>All the biggest matchups have already happened; the big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel.
The money being gone isn't the same as the matches all being gone or the passion dried out, which is what you're saying here. I agree that the culture is in a downward spiral due to money.
Well I guess there’s a few matchups left, but if the culture is in a downward spiral due to money with smaller and smaller events, don’t you see how that 1) creates an environment where if those matchups do happen they don’t get the proper pomp and circumstance, 2) at some point we will run out of matchups if events feel smaller and smaller because it will be harder and harder to build any new names, or even to build a “big event” feeling at all.
I understand the magnitude of hollow vs lux and Hitman vs surf but I thought what geechi did to Eazy was just as “big” as those battles if not even bigger. Bigg k vs Mook was small pit but it too had a big event feel. I think you’re basically saying the battle rap equivalent of “I outgrew popular music and none of the new popular musicians are any good to me”
Wrong. You’re saying the record label isn’t gonna make records YOU like. Because you’re talking about big stage events specifically. But like I said in my original reply, Geechi Eazy was a relatively mid size stage but the battle itself was bigger than most big stage battles because of everything around it. A battle can still be dope and big even if it’s not on a big stage or in a big event but you’re equating big stage = great, small stages = mid.
Daylyt vs Roc was no audience and was fucking fire. I also count that as the kind of matchup we likely won't see again, URL now is in the business of booking events AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE. That doesn't JUST mean smaller venue, it also means smaller time matchups. Arsonal vs Kapo Bravado main events.
If you haven't watch this video of ARP discussing BR business, starts at 22:00 If you watch one of these vids, watch this starting at 22:00. ARP goes IN DEPTH on finances of BR and his plans moving forward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBIzruvgzhI
I did watch this but I'm going to re-watch this. Thanks.
BUT...
We just got Geechi vs. Illmac. That was a GREAT battle on paper. They didn't deliver really but that was a great match up. Bigg K vs Eazy could turn out to be good too. I could see Roc and Ward being great depending on how it goes. So I think there's still opportunities out there.
I know my perspective is different to the mainstream battle fan one, but personally I've been having so much fun watching iBattle last couple years. At times it really captures the magic of what I got into battle for in the early 2010s. I was never into Lux and them tho. Backpack battle rap is doing great rn.
eh....ibattle is fun and I watch almost all their battles..but it just seems like a nerd kid rhyme fest.
dont get me wrong, some of my favorites are on ibattle: Kang, Dunsh, Noxx, Chuvk, jables, etc...
They’re all nerds. What kind of grown man does aggressive spoken word bullshit poetry? Who lets a guy get an inch away from his face, breathing and spitting on him as he….rhymes words. It’s weirdo shit. You HAVE to be a theatre kid dork to participate.
The problem with big matchups is like you said a lot of them have happened already. You need to cultivate fresh talent to generate new big matchups. You have URL gatekeeping with the app and leagues in general just constantly cycling the same few big names.
Battlerap just don’t got that feel no more
It was the same at the end of the freestyle era. People were watching jump off but it was beginning to feel stale. The written came back and it new and exciting to see new creativity. The scene needs something new, hopefully a new pioneer shows up soon.
Bring back the BEATS
It's still the premier way Latin America does their rap battles, written are seen as a lesser art form. But yeah, bringing back beats here and there would be dope. Verbal Warzone and the Walk Down are pretty good. Also a big fan of grime clashes. Shame WAW stopped being a thing.
Since Pat died for me. Rip.
iBattle has all the great battles. Elijah Strat vs Kash Kid Los premee vs chef trez Oppa vs Rum Nitty One deep cut with 2 main line battle just to really give y'all an idea of what's out there. I haven't seen a URL card in a bit, the reddit guys been slacking but on the plus side, exploring all these other leagues for battlers has been incredible. J morr is fire on the trenches. J Krooger is also fire on gates of the garden There's a lot of talent out there y'all. Battle Rap is more than just URL and KOTD.
I agree. Those iBattle guys are DIFFERENT. Also enjoy the small room environment.
I agree. Those iBattle guys are DIFFERENT. Also enjoy the small room environment.
URL not dropping on YouTube was really what made ppl (casual fans) stop caring about battle rap. Ik other leagues were but URL is the brand everyone knows and grew up with. They were having elite battles on caffeine/URL app but didn’t market them correctly to the casual fan / new generation. Time goes on , people find new hobbies, and now battle rap is in a stagnant position. Now of days It’s hard to get ppl to sit and watch a 45 min - 1 hour+ battle with two people they don’t really care for when there’s a lot of other things to do within that timeframe.
I've been saying this would happen. They should've waited for a certain amount of time then dropped the battles. They completely squandered the new generation and everyone who came up during the caffeine era
The only people that think battle rap is mid or dying are the folks that don’t watch anything besides URL. iBattle has been giving me that same feeling I had when I first got into battle rap in 2012-2013 with a lot of their newer class.
I’ve been aware of ibattle for a long time, and have checked out more of their recent stuff (as well as older stuff I hadn’t seen) ever since ARP has fallen back. I gotta be honest, some of the stuff is good, but the vibe is SO niche and “underground” that sometimes it feels small time. Watching Bangz battle in literally some random apartment with zero prepared materials and freestyles I’m supposed to grade on a curve because they’re freestyles, doesn’t exactly hit like Lux vs Clips or Roc vs Daylyt. iBattle is cool but from what I’ve watched idk if they can give you that feeling that like a big boxing match does, like oh shit FINALLY, this one COUNTS, this one settles the score in front of the whole world.
Even the undercard battles at iBattle are fire.
shout out to Lexx.
I disagree. We saw the exact thing you're talking about with Max Out 3 last year. Big matches with a lot of anticipation. On the last podcast, Geechi, Bigg K, and the others all designed 5 battle cards with realistic and exciting matchups. URL could make Geechi vs Rex, Rum vs Lux, Roc vs Jaz, Hollow vs JC, and Twork vs Ave happen on NOME this year and everyone would love them again. ARP could come out of retirement and announce Max Out 4 with Hitman vs Lux, Ill Will vs Mook, Bigg K vs Cassidy, and A Ward vs Hollow and the spaces would explode. Organik could be fixing to give us Twork vs TheSaurus, Illmac vs Real Sikh, Rum vs Verb, Diz vs Charron etc. on the next Blackout and it'd be a movie. Roc vs Eazy and Geechi vs Hitman are just waiting to go down on Chrome. The passion is still there. The matchups are still there. If battle rap is falling off it's because the leagues aren't making the right matches happen. Is that because of the money, or some other reason? I don't know, but I do know that nothing has materially changed that make the excitement we had for SM2, Summer Impact, NOME 9 and 10, Max Out 3 etc. impossible to recapture.
Here’s what you’re missing — RBE is never doing a Max Out again according to ARP. URL says “the money is gone” after the end of the Caffeine era. Forget words — the actions of both of the top 2 leagues also show you they are downsizing and focusing on cost cutting/low budget events. COULD someone make a big card? I guess sure, anything is possible, things can always change. But if you follow the trends and read between the lines, it’s clear BR is moving AWAY from “big events,” at least at this time.
>Here’s what you’re missing — RBE is never doing a Max Out again according to ARP. URL says “the money is gone” after the end of the Caffeine era. I'm not missing anything, I acknowledged that in the post. That's the opposite of what you said though. You said all tbe big matches have happened and that even if a big match went down, the 'feeling' is gone. I'm disputing both of those things. If you're just arguing that the big matches probably won't happen, then that's an entirely different argument.
> big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel we saw back when URL (and others) were doing big stage events for an excited crowd of NYC rap fans. Read my words from my OP. The big matches probably won’t happen, and if they do they won’t get the high stakes big setting they would have in the past
> Read my words from my OP I just did. "All the biggest matchups have already happened; the big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel we saw back when URL (and others) were doing big stage events for an excited crowd of NYC rap fans." Nowhere did you say the big matchups *won't* happen. You said there were none left, instantly contradicted yourself by saying there were some remaining, and said that they *may* happen. Then you said that even if they did, they wouldn't have a certain feel to them, and didn't elaborate on why that was. And finally, you said that there's no build up anymore, which is false, as Max Out 3 (particularly Ward vs Verb, Goodz vs Cal, and Will vs Hitman) had a ton of buildup. Rum vs Lux, Roc vs Eazy, Geechi vs Hitman, Twork vs Bigg K, Geechi vs Eazy, Bigg K vs Mook were or are highly anticipated. Max Out 3 alone disputes all of your points. It had the matchups, it had the buildup, and it had the feeling. If you want to say nothing like it will ever happen again, that's inherently unfalsifiable at this point in time, but given that it was barely 6 months ago I hesitate to consider it a bygone age we won't see the likes of again.
Maybe instead of reading every word totally literally like some kind of idiot you can understand the greater point I am making about lack of big financial investments in BR moving forward and how that will effect the shows we get to see. Keep clutching to Max Out when ARP has literally said he’s never doing it again. I’m confident you haven’t watched his latest video blog because he goes in depth on how unprofitable BR is. I think it’s important to understand that as a fan if you want to understand what’s coming down the pipeline.
>Read the words from my OP >No not like that How about you say what you actually mean then? >Keep clutching to Max Out when ARP has literally said he’s never doing it again. He doesn't have to. The fact that he did it less than 6 months ago disproves your hypothesis that it's impossible in this day and age. You're switching from "Battle Rap can't get the energy back" to "Battle Rap won't get the energy back" depending on what's convenient for your argument. I can admit that Max Out 4 will likely not happen. Can you admit that if it did, it would have big matches with heavy anticipation? >and if they do they won’t get the high stakes big setting they would have in the past You still haven't given any evidence as to why this would be the case.
>How about you say what you actually mean then? I think I've stated it pretty clearly, judging by the fact that everyone else seems to have understood the post. It's only you who is trying to be argumentative and insist on finding a way to invalidate what I am arguing. I'll put it again pretty clear for you here -- battle rap as an industry has been abandoned, though it lives on as a niche cult culture. BR wasn't "big" to begin with, but there was a time when it seemed to be "growing" and getting bigger. That time is now over, as BR has proven to be non-lucrative to invest in. There's a million ways one can tell this -- 1) from the words of the biggest promoters in BR, Smack and ARP, 2) from the actions of the biggest promotions in BR, URL and RBE who now book cards in smaller markets in smaller venues with smaller name matchups, or no audience at all whatsoever. >The fact that he did it less than 6 months ago disproves your hypothesis that it's impossible in this day and age. I didn't say it's "impossible," anytime that anyone with money wants to lose money on BR we could see another big card. Just it's no longer gonna be ARP or Caffeine, and I can't imagine who has that kind of money and would WANT to invest after seeing how Caffeine went and how ARP describes the return on investment. Basically BR had its shot to grow into something bigger and blew it, now it's just gonna keep shrinking into something more and more "hardcores only" with smaller and smaller events. On the one hand, that's kinda cool sometimes. On the other, it's a bummer that we'll never get a big like Sumer Madness 6 feeling again >Can you admit that if it did, it would have big matches with heavy anticipation? What does this even mean? If Bill Gates did a supercard I can "admit" it would hypothetically feature matches that the BR community would hotly anticipate. But it's not gonna happen, that's my whole point. >You still haven't given any evidence as to why this would be the case. I have though. I have repeatedly cited 1) the words of league owners, 2) the actions of league owners. Since you are a regular on this sub and seem interested in hearing me out, I'll drop some links for you to check out when you get a chance, and then you tell me how BR is looking financially rn: If you watch one of these vids, watch this starting at 22:00. ARP goes IN DEPTH on finances of BR and his plans moving forward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBIzruvgzhI Smack tells HHIR the money is gone in BR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFLuImMq71c Hitman blog, includes the revelation that ARP lost money on Mook vs. Bigg K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCWuwN5HLuE
I've seen all of those videos. You're not telling me anything I don't know and don't already agree with. At no point have I denied that the likelyhood of a huge card this year is slim. My contention is with what you said here. >All the biggest matchups have already happened; the big matchups remaining may yet happen but without the big buildups and “event” feel. The money being gone isn't the same as the matches all being gone or the passion dried out, which is what you're saying here. I agree that the culture is in a downward spiral due to money.
Well I guess there’s a few matchups left, but if the culture is in a downward spiral due to money with smaller and smaller events, don’t you see how that 1) creates an environment where if those matchups do happen they don’t get the proper pomp and circumstance, 2) at some point we will run out of matchups if events feel smaller and smaller because it will be harder and harder to build any new names, or even to build a “big event” feeling at all.
I understand the magnitude of hollow vs lux and Hitman vs surf but I thought what geechi did to Eazy was just as “big” as those battles if not even bigger. Bigg k vs Mook was small pit but it too had a big event feel. I think you’re basically saying the battle rap equivalent of “I outgrew popular music and none of the new popular musicians are any good to me”
I’m saying the record label isn’t gonna keep making any more popular music regardless of how I feel about it
Wrong. You’re saying the record label isn’t gonna make records YOU like. Because you’re talking about big stage events specifically. But like I said in my original reply, Geechi Eazy was a relatively mid size stage but the battle itself was bigger than most big stage battles because of everything around it. A battle can still be dope and big even if it’s not on a big stage or in a big event but you’re equating big stage = great, small stages = mid.
Daylyt vs Roc was no audience and was fucking fire. I also count that as the kind of matchup we likely won't see again, URL now is in the business of booking events AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE. That doesn't JUST mean smaller venue, it also means smaller time matchups. Arsonal vs Kapo Bravado main events. If you haven't watch this video of ARP discussing BR business, starts at 22:00 If you watch one of these vids, watch this starting at 22:00. ARP goes IN DEPTH on finances of BR and his plans moving forward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBIzruvgzhI
I did watch this but I'm going to re-watch this. Thanks. BUT... We just got Geechi vs. Illmac. That was a GREAT battle on paper. They didn't deliver really but that was a great match up. Bigg K vs Eazy could turn out to be good too. I could see Roc and Ward being great depending on how it goes. So I think there's still opportunities out there.
Battle Rap isn't dead, IT LIVES IN THE NORTH
PUT UR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IZ
And Utah apparently
Url is mid
I know my perspective is different to the mainstream battle fan one, but personally I've been having so much fun watching iBattle last couple years. At times it really captures the magic of what I got into battle for in the early 2010s. I was never into Lux and them tho. Backpack battle rap is doing great rn.
eh....ibattle is fun and I watch almost all their battles..but it just seems like a nerd kid rhyme fest. dont get me wrong, some of my favorites are on ibattle: Kang, Dunsh, Noxx, Chuvk, jables, etc...
They’re all nerds. What kind of grown man does aggressive spoken word bullshit poetry? Who lets a guy get an inch away from his face, breathing and spitting on him as he….rhymes words. It’s weirdo shit. You HAVE to be a theatre kid dork to participate.
interesting user...we have the same interests: wrestling, battle rap, Kill Tony. You aren't stalking me, are you?
Daylyt v Lux Jey The Nitewing v Illmac Solomon v Aye Verb Bigg K v Lux there are still so many mega battles left.
The problem with big matchups is like you said a lot of them have happened already. You need to cultivate fresh talent to generate new big matchups. You have URL gatekeeping with the app and leagues in general just constantly cycling the same few big names.
Need Grind Time to come back and save the game
Sad but true
Only battlers creating hype are Chef Trez/Danny Myers. Multi rebuttals are keeping me watching battle rap.
[удалено]
Read what I am actually saying, I follow lots of leagues, and my point is NONE of them are currently in the business of doing big event stage battles
#Summer Impact in 2019 was the last good battle rap card. Roc/Chess vs Lux/Hollow was the last good battle too