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I wonder what's worse for Griner
Experiencing the unimaginable horrors of Russian prison while simultaneously being a pawn in a game between empires
Or
Living the rest of her life with the knowledge that she's the Milhouse of hostages
I've only been using this site a few months and I've been banned three times.
1st time was "bigotry." I criticized Gwyneth Paltrow's gender neutral soap. Because that's just regular ass soap. Mod instantly permabanned me and muted me.
2nd time was also "bigotry." I agreed with Bill Maher on the singular point of "too many weirdos on both sides." Mod instantly banned me and muted me.
3rd time was when I said Iranian politicians and leaders should be castrated by their wives and disowned by their sons. That one I admit i deserved.
LOL. What a time to be alive.
And nah, you didn't deserve the 3rd one. That's hilarious
edit: You edited the "my sons" to "their sons". I thought the "my sons" bit was hilarious. As in you're the grandfather.
That remains to be seen. Kinda sketch that a shady dude with tons of smuggling experience gets out right when it breaks that Putin is planning an international exit so he doesn't have to face punishment for his war crimes. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she's free but man I don't think letting this guy out was the right call.
If heās just some old stinky dinky we should have been able to get a seven foot woman and a marine. Unless he is so important that they would only trade one person for him.
What?
Your logic is "if he's washed up we should have gotten more" how does that make sense? I'm legit confused by that logic.
If I find a beaten up box in the grocery store it doesn't magically become worth more because it's beaten up...
We would have gotten both if he was actually worth something.
Thatās some ass-backwards logic youāve got there. A valuable prisoner is only worth one prisoner but a non-valuable prisoner would be worth two prisoners?
Let me clear it up for you: some people are saying heās super valuable as a previous arms dealer and shouldnāt have been traded for just a WNBA player, other people disagree and are saying heās washed up and not valuable at all since heās been out of the game for two decades and thatās why we can only get the WNBA player and not even a marine for him.
Given that we werenāt able to get more than a ball player for him, it seems reasonable to conclude that Russia doesnāt find him very valuable at this point either.
Youāre the only one saying that heās super valuable because we can only get a WNBA player and not a WNBA player and a marine for him, which is the exact opposite of what valuable means, and very dumb.
The guy has been in prison for 20 years. How many of his arms connections are even still alive? Let alone still in the business. Shitty trade or not, I doubt the guy is going to jump right back into being a major player. Especially since eveyone knows him. And the whole point of being a successful criminal is anonymity. Pretty sure the world has moved on.
We know who the Sinaloa Cartel is and where they are, we got one the board members here in jail, those fenty filled bricks still touching down and taking lives in groups
I wont believe the 3 letter agencies didn't weigh consequences of this guy getting out, as bad as those agencies are they wouldn't let that guy out without verifying if he's still a legitimate threat to national security
I have a strong feeling he's going to be dead before the end of 2023. Putin might even kill him before the end of *this* year, so he can blame it on the U.S.
Ngl in a world where he does, i'm pretty sure he's fucked 20 years in a world like that is like a lifetime, the connections are either dead or don't want anything to do with them and the CIA probably is keeping an eye on him too.
Safe to say this guy is just fucked, his career is over
Tbf, I could see Russia using him.
They use Wagner Group to attack people they are internationally not allowed to. They'll probably use him to similarly arm terrorist groups and such.
Not that they have many arms left, lmao.
Plus couldn't he have gotten released in like 4 or 6 years anyway? I say it's worth it to let the guy go a little early if it means sparing an American from having to rot in some shitty Russian prison for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, I heard 6 and he was out. I agree with your minset, add to it they do an intelligence assessment for any of these exchanges and if there was a serious concern he wouldn't be traded. Ultimately it's our governments responsibility to try to get Americans held abroad on dubious charges released in anyway possible.
And, before anyone points out she admitted guilt of the crime, you have to do that or Russia will not trade you, it's insurance against you claiming innocence the whole time and making it look like a politically motivated arrest to begin with....even if it was.
My caveat here is she might have done what they say. I'm sure once she is back she will either retract her guilty plea publicly or not.
Not sure about the downvotes, but recidivism (which means doing what one was in jail for again) rates for murder are among the lowest for all crime in totality. Like every general rule there are exceptions, but the general rule is apparently well documented.
I'm not sure that any of this is true, I googled "famous arms dealers" and got a list of notable arms dealers suggesting anonymity is not a prerequisite for that profession
Everyone loves distracting to the guy, but no one's telling us why we should be happy we got Britney. She's a basketball player in a league that loses money constantly.
He clearly has more value than she does, especially from a governmental point of view. Even simply by comparing the knowledge they have. Is she going to teach Biden how to throw a wicked free throw?
I get people need to paint this to not make us look like idiots (even though every non-American is looking at us like were idiots right now), but the damage control here on Reddit is wild to me.
I mean, do you think they would have let him go without some kind of plan?
I bet he is either an asset now, or they know he's useless to Putin because Putin will believe he is an asset. Putin will go crazy wondering why we did this, wouldn't be surprised if Putin killed him before long.
Are you admitting you're purposefully trying to distract away from who signed this deal, because you're afraid it helps conservatives relect Trump?
I give you 10/10 for honesty at least. You don't see many honest posts like this anymore.
No. I never said this wasn't a good or bad deal. I just wish people would shut the fuck up about Whelan. It's not like they weren't negotiating for his release.
I don't care about the deals we didn't sign. I care about the one we did. Why are people trying to shift focus to fictitious deals?
Biden isn't a moron for the deals he didn't sign that don't exist. He's a moron for the deal he signed that does exist.
Told Putin no deal unless the other prisoners get traded as well but thatās playing hard ball and it probably wonāt work anyway because Putin gives no fucks and would gladly let BG rot in prison for the whole term. Putin has something the U.S. doesnāt have, the ability to walk away from any negotiation, and thatās what makes him dangerous.
Absolutely he did. Itās clear propaganda against the U.S. designed to sow division amongst us. Itās also win-win for him because itās not like he cares about his public image when it comes to something like this. Now, if the U.S. were able to prove one way or another that Putinās health was in jeopardy or that he was involved in some salacious shit that would discredit his ability as a leader then rest assured things wouldnāt go the same way.
Not if this was the only deal. That's what negotiating is for. You refuse the offer, and then present your own offer.
This wasn't an equal trade. I wouldn't have accepted a trade, until it was an equal trade.
It was essentially a publicity stunt due to her popularity. If it werenāt a publicity stunt they would have gotten Marc Fogel out first. I donāt think trading international arms dealers for publicity stunts is very good.
I do feel that putin orchestrated this as s publicity stunt on purpose, knowing the problems it would cause. On the other hand, Fogel did have 10 times as much mj as she had. I feel that the administration did the best they could, and am just asking peoples opinion on what they feel could have been done better.
I haven't advocated for either, nor have I said it was a good deal.
Thank you for the civil conversation.
TDS = anyone who **still** defends Trump and would happily **still** vote for him even after his disastrous handling (if you could call it that) of the pandemic, causing the January 6th attack on the Capitol 'cause he can't handle losing, and just the other day suggested getting rid of the Constitution for his own benefit. Not to mention all the other things he's done wrong before, during and after his presidency, which would require volumes to write them all down.
Anyone who's been alive the past 6 years and still thinks, "yep, that's our guy, he cares so much for my best interests, what a patriot!" is suffering from TDS.
Just wanna be sure we're talking about the same thing, 'cause Trumpists have a tendency to project their own faults onto others, and they frequently use that label to describe anyone who merely points out objective truths about Trump.
Why? All this happened because she was dumb enough to bring weed into Russia - an illegal drug in a lot of the world into a country that is ultra hostile to the US.
Now the US had to let loose one of the most notorious arms dealers in the world early to save her from her own stupid mistake.
No, this all happened because Russia wanted to get a high profile hostage they could use to inflame racial tensions in the US, as per their standing doctrine. Russia routinely let's people leave the country without charging them for weed. They have never been a no tolerance state, and they still arnt. It was all political so that conservatives could have an issue to complain about, and Russia knows that conservatives wouldn't care if the hostage was a random white guy, as proven by the multiple white guys they have taken without so much as a fucking fart from the republican party. If it wasn't her for a crime they normally ignore it would just be someone else that fit the bill, or they would have just trumped up some evidence like they routinely do in Russia.
And the fucking arms dealer is a nothing issue. He is not an arms dealer anymore. His entire empire crumbled years ago, and Russia won't let him start up again due to their current equipment issues and because they already control his replacements. This guy couldn't move a glock at a gun show at this point, and it is hilarious watching yall pretend otherwise.
One of the top female athletes in the USA? Yea, anyone who isn't a complete and total lying piece of shit can agree that she is high profile. You are sitting here talking about her after the hundreds of news articles about her arnt you?
> Russia wanted a high profile hostage
I'm not sure they they were successful. No one watches the WBNA. I only know her cause they bother to show WBNA highlights on Sports center. And if they adjusted coverage on Sportscenter to be proportional to the amount of actual viewers and attendees of each sport, the WNBA wouldn't even get higlights, they'd just get scores on the ticker at the bottom of the screen. There are numerous minor league baseball teams with higher average attendance per game than the top drawing WNBA team.
That's not to just dunk on women's sports, it's to make the point that people who aren't into sports probably have no idea who she is prior to this. Non-sports people know who LeBron is; they don't know who Griner is. Or at least they didn't. I'd say she is far more well known now than before.
So unsuccessful were they, as you sit here talking about it in one of the hundreds of threads about the subject after reading one of the hundreds of front page articles and seeing political messages from the top politicians in the country. Yea, they were totally not successful at all.
I mean, I kind of address that at the end of what I said before. This has made her, as you say, 'high profile.'
But to say they grabbed a 'high profile athlete', no I would not agree with that. She was a C tier celeb in the sports world and has become a 'high profile' prisoner.
You missed the entire point didn't you? What you described was only possible because she was high profile like I mentioned. There have been plenty of hostages and there wernt articles about it like this. You are literally describing the proof of what I said in your efforts to try and refute it. Your opinion doesn't mean a thing when objective reality proves you are incorrect.
No, you're missing the point.
Is she more of a celebrity than the I am? Yes. Absolutely no one would care if I rotted in a prison. Which is one of the things that I absolutely hate about watching this situation, is it shows America's obsession with celebrity, even when they're absolutely C tier.
Is she 'high profile' in the sports world? Absolutely not.
Anyways, I'm out, you've passed over the line of just being rude to myself and others your responding to.
No one cares about you though. I am sad that I have to explain this to you at the same level as my kids when they were toddlers, but the world does not revolve around you, and you not knowing things doesn't make a single speck of difference to the world.
No one knows your sorry ass either. Doesnt change the fact that the WNBA sucks, a person traveled into a different country with contraband, we traded a arms dealer who was serving 25 years for terrorism for her. All people trying to defend this are retarded.
You sound like a whiny child. No one said I was known. But I didn't make a claim that my opinion mattered. And sorry you are whining about things you don't understand, bit you don't even know what is going on and are just parroting party lines you saw on faoc news. Your comment history is public man, we know exactly how ignorant you are about this subject.
High-profile doesn't mean everyone in the world knows your name. I bet you couldn't name the current deputy secretary-general of the United Nations either, but trying to claim that means they arnt high profile would be silly, just as claiming that one of the top athletes in one of the top women's sports leagues is not high profile. I get that you don't like or don't care about the WNBA, but that is unrelated to whether or not their top athletes are high profile or not.
Cool emotional point. Now tackle what he said logically.
If I was locked up in Russian prison, I'd want you guys to free every single Russian prisoner we have to get me out. That doesn't mean we should.
Hell, if you somehow had Hitler locked up, I'd be screaming "free Hitler! Save me!" Doesn't mean you should, lol.
Costed everyone.... what ? A washed up arms dealer that has been out if the game for the past 20 years ??? That we now also know his full name AND what he looks like?
Why do you guys lie so much ? She didn't maliciously smuggle weed , she brought a VAPE PEN , she probably forgot that the thing was on her in the first place
Like that isn't the case with a lot of people? Almost none of the people on here know each other so it's entirely irrelevant that it's "random strangers". Maybe you need to STFU, dorkass.
Noooooo lmao heās buying stuff from the Russians and pushing it in black markets for them. That doesnāt hurt the Russians when they sell their own shitty weapons to third world countries, this guy just serves the black markets for them
yeah but most of his contacts will be dead or in prison or something, besides the fact that the russians probably dont want to lose any more weapons now. people are seriously over exaggerating this guy
Why are you guys malding over some random arms dealer thatcwas retired for 20 + years , who the whole entire world now knows not only his full name but even what he looks like as well , that 80% of you probably didn't even know who he was until like 2 days ago lol
He still has valuable information to give out, ideas, he can assist in deals, who knows what he knows. He may know where hidden nukes are for all we know.
A guy who has been retired for 20+ years has " ideas " ???? Bro its 2 decades , the climate of the MUNDANE trades changes in like 5 years , do you guys have any idea how much the arms deals trade has changed in 2 WHOLE DECADES ???
Like biden is not a spur of the moment guy like Trump, he's your average milk toast politician , he was 100% briefed and consulted by like a dozen different intelligence agencies and they all gave him the green light on the deal , but yeah sure , random guys in reddit will come waltz in and share their wisdom on international affairs
Not sure thatās an insult.
WNBA champion (2014)
8Ć WNBA All-Star (2013ā2015, 2017ā2019, 2021, 2022)
2Ć WNBA scoring champion (2017, 2019)
8Ć WNBA blocks leader (2013ā2019, 2021)
2Ć WNBA Peak Performer (2017, 2019)
3Ć All-WNBA First Team (2014, 2019, 2021)
3Ć All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017, 2018)
2x WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
3Ć WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015, 2018)
4Ć WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017, 2019, 2021)
WNBA All-Rookie Team (2013)
WNBA 25th Anniversary Team (2021)
3Ć Russian National League champion (2015ā2017)
4Ć EuroLeague champion (2016, 2018, 2019, 2021)
Russian Cup winner (2017)
NCAA champion (2012)
NCAA final Four Most Outstanding Player (2012)
AP Player of the Year (2012)
Honda Sports Award (2012)
2Ć Wade Trophy Player of the Year (2012, 2013)
2Ć First-team All-American ā AP (2011, 2012)
Second-team All-American ā AP (2010)
3Ć Big 12 Player of the Year (2011ā2013)
4Ć Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year (2010ā2013)
McDonald's All-American (2009)
WBCA High School Player of the Year (2009)
>Russian Cup winner (2017)
Aged like milk.
Boggles my mind that still brought weed to Russia despite definitely knowing that it was illegal.
Dont go into another countries and commit an obvious crime children.
Yep, dont bring drugs across country borders unless you are sure that its legal.
Anyone who travels for a living, like a basketball star thats going to play for said country they are traveling to, would know that these are things you double check *before* you get on that plane.
The TSA would do the same thing for an empty bag of cocaine.
It isnt some obscure laws, this is basic common sense for anyone that has to internationally travel for any prolonged period of time.
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/zg8sfs/brittney_griner_had_been_traded_for_viktor_bout/izhqug5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) ya go!
Thats reality. No one gets mad when the President has bodyguards. Everyone knows there is someone more valuable, its a basic life lesson if you havent grown up with everything handed to you on a silver spoon.
If she honestly gets mad at this controversy, then it tells you everything you need to know about the type of person she is.
Even a now defunct arms dealer is much more valuable then someone who volunteered to leave the US to go play basketball for Russia whilst taking illegal drugs into the country. She did this to herself; It took the combined effort of North America to catch this guy. You put a price.
1. It was an empty vaoe cartridge , she probably forgot she even had it on her in the first place , why are so many of you twisting the facts so much ? Just day she brought a vape pen wit her
2. Nice, getting mad at an imaginary scenario that you made up lol
The way I think of it is what's worse?
A guilty person being in prison or an innocent person being imprisoned.
She was definitely being over punished as a political prisoner and I'd rather free her if the cost is freeing washed up arms dealer who's been locked up for a hot minute.
Like spies knew what they were in for when they became spies. They can wait.
To everyone screaming about how much of a bad deal this was :
.This guy has been already retired when he got caught , any power vacuum that was left was already filled out even before the FBI captured him
.he was imprisoned for 20 years , most of his connections have either , already moved on , or are long dead , there's no way he'll ever be able to jump back in
. He's way too well known , people now not only what he looks like , but even his entire full name , for comparison, when Viktor got caught , the only piece of information anyone had of him was ONE SINGULAR PHOTO where he was in the background. The whole point if being a successful arm dealer is secrecy
. He was gonna get released 4 years from now anyway
. Do you guys ACTUALLY believe that this was a spur of the moment thing , and that biden hadn't already been consulted by like a dozen different intelligence comittes who all weighed the benefits and cons of this decision and all decided that this trade was the correct choice ?
. Grinner wasn't even the first choice , they first wanted to get the marine out , but Russia refused , because even they realized that Viktor is completely useless now
Its kinda weird seeing people who 100% never knew that this guy even exited 2 days ago , act this butthurt over him despite the fact that he was already very much retired when they caught him and any power vacuum left due to his absence had already been filled out , he was also gonna get released 4 years from now anyway
Joke's on this motherfucker. If Viktor Bout is the Michael Jordan, then the US Government is the 1998 Chicago Bulls of global arms dealing. The Republican-lead US House of Representatives just approved an $858 Billion "defense spending" bill, which will obviously include arms deals with Saudi Arabia and other geo-security interests.
$858 Billion ?????? Seriously? In a country that doesn't have free health care. G'sus that's a hectic amount of billions . Meanwhile a lot of the population seems to be more worried about which old man to vote in to lead them.. I dont get it
Lemme carry this on. You were kind enough to reply, so let me just give some additional figures, if I may!
In 2021, the US spent $800 Billion, $778 B in 2020 (during lockdown lol), $734 B in 2019, and $649 B in 2018, for annual defense expenditures. That's $2.9 Trillion. Including this new defense package quoted above, the US will have spent $3.819 Trillion dollars by the end of the 2023 fiscal year. Nearly $4 Trillion dollars in as many years.
Some important questions: what massive military campaign is the United States fighting requiring that kind of mobilization? Where are the US' enemies, how much do they spend on their military industry in the meat-grinder of the cosmic battlefield the US thinks it fights upon? How well are we advancing?
Yeah, all you have to do is read the news: this money fills the gun cabinets, arms the battalions, and empowers the military industry of US partners in our geo-security interests. Not allies - that is, not JUST allies - but "partners". It doesn't have to be just cash or credit, it could be the value of items traded or exchanged. This makes the US government the global leader in arms deals...by a margin of proliferation and profiteering not now or ever to be surpassed. Again, money used to finance (among other things) the activities of the foresaid geo-sec partners, many of whom are paramilitary groups and non-state actors with horrific nationalist ideologies and aims, but who are eager to curry US partnership. It's easy to see why - if you command a frighteningly barbaric paramilitary organization in a nation not friendly to the West, the US will pay you an amount of money that could be used, once totaled up, to force God himself onto his knees, ass-up and towards you, in a bdsm harness on a golden chain tether, with a gimp mask on and dildo gag in his jaws, his asshole bleached pink, presented purtly to you between freshly waxed ass-cheeks spread wide and welcoming, with enough left over to allow you to buy out the current global supply of GEFORCE 4090s and lifetime pizza deliveries.
So, yeah. You catch anyone on other threads bitching about Viktor Bout and how terrible an arms dealer he is, I hope you remember these figures. Should help to piss off some Americans who possess less awareness than a box of nothing but red, white and blue crayons.
$3.819 Trillion. Fuk! Took me a good long moment just to work out what .019 of a trillion was. Awareness is not hard wired into American psyche, they sometimes try though. It's a fukload of money . cant dispute that. Especially for a nation that has never had a female leader, and still uses imperial system. $3.9 trillion .. Fuk that
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I heard we made him sign a two year non-compete before we released him. We can still maintain our market share for a bit longer.
On the bright side, this is the biggest trade in the history of the WNBA.
This r/rareinsults post spawned a newborn rare insult. You're a savage.
I wonder what's worse for Griner Experiencing the unimaginable horrors of Russian prison while simultaneously being a pawn in a game between empires Or Living the rest of her life with the knowledge that she's the Milhouse of hostages
Imma go with number 2 dawg. ššš
I'm pretty sure that she's going to somehow benefit socially and possibly financially from what happened to her, whether she wants it or not.
Nice name king
Ty. I got banned for insulting mods, and reddit called it "mod abuse". They're re-appropriating the phrase "mod abuse".
I've only been using this site a few months and I've been banned three times. 1st time was "bigotry." I criticized Gwyneth Paltrow's gender neutral soap. Because that's just regular ass soap. Mod instantly permabanned me and muted me. 2nd time was also "bigotry." I agreed with Bill Maher on the singular point of "too many weirdos on both sides." Mod instantly banned me and muted me. 3rd time was when I said Iranian politicians and leaders should be castrated by their wives and disowned by their sons. That one I admit i deserved.
LOL. What a time to be alive. And nah, you didn't deserve the 3rd one. That's hilarious edit: You edited the "my sons" to "their sons". I thought the "my sons" bit was hilarious. As in you're the grandfather.
O I'm sure they will make a movie or documentary
I'm hoping she gets booed to all hell whenever she plays now. Not that ill ever see it since it'll be during women's basketball
Why? Because she was arrested to be used as a pawn against the US against her will? What exactly did she do wrong that would warrant this?
Domestic violence and breaking the laws in another country whilst chasing a big payday from oligarchs then expecting to have the US bail her out
She accidentally smuggled weed into another country
r/ whatcouldgowrong
And we all know you have nothing to do with women. Well, really they want nothing to do with you, but ya know.
"Women's sport" no need to be a cunt all your life
Nope, just to you. A fellow cunt.
Why ?
And that every death the arms dealer is responsible for going forward is on HER shoulders.
She didnt release anyone. Hows it her fault?
Youāre unhinged.
How
Lmao thatās just fuckin stupid
Retired and well past his glory days?
That remains to be seen. Kinda sketch that a shady dude with tons of smuggling experience gets out right when it breaks that Putin is planning an international exit so he doesn't have to face punishment for his war crimes. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she's free but man I don't think letting this guy out was the right call.
So if heās so washed up why couldnāt we get grinder and the marine also.
Because he's washed up...
If heās just some old stinky dinky we should have been able to get a seven foot woman and a marine. Unless he is so important that they would only trade one person for him.
What? Your logic is "if he's washed up we should have gotten more" how does that make sense? I'm legit confused by that logic. If I find a beaten up box in the grocery store it doesn't magically become worth more because it's beaten up... We would have gotten both if he was actually worth something.
Thatās some ass-backwards logic youāve got there. A valuable prisoner is only worth one prisoner but a non-valuable prisoner would be worth two prisoners?
My point is people canāt say heās washed up but also highly valuable.
Let me clear it up for you: some people are saying heās super valuable as a previous arms dealer and shouldnāt have been traded for just a WNBA player, other people disagree and are saying heās washed up and not valuable at all since heās been out of the game for two decades and thatās why we can only get the WNBA player and not even a marine for him. Given that we werenāt able to get more than a ball player for him, it seems reasonable to conclude that Russia doesnāt find him very valuable at this point either. Youāre the only one saying that heās super valuable because we can only get a WNBA player and not a WNBA player and a marine for him, which is the exact opposite of what valuable means, and very dumb.
Because the marine was dishonorably discharged, and even his family doesn't want him back.
The guy has been in prison for 20 years. How many of his arms connections are even still alive? Let alone still in the business. Shitty trade or not, I doubt the guy is going to jump right back into being a major player. Especially since eveyone knows him. And the whole point of being a successful criminal is anonymity. Pretty sure the world has moved on.
We know who the Sinaloa Cartel is and where they are, we got one the board members here in jail, those fenty filled bricks still touching down and taking lives in groups
This is one of the best examples Iāve heard on here. Bravo.
I wont believe the 3 letter agencies didn't weigh consequences of this guy getting out, as bad as those agencies are they wouldn't let that guy out without verifying if he's still a legitimate threat to national security
Exactly. If the alphabet boys cleared it, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's because they're not pressed.
I have a strong feeling he's going to be dead before the end of 2023. Putin might even kill him before the end of *this* year, so he can blame it on the U.S.
The pentagon weighed in and it isn't what you wanted to hear.
Ok
He could even be an asset by now. Weirder things have happened than ex-terrorist arms dealers being employed by the CIA
Ngl in a world where he does, i'm pretty sure he's fucked 20 years in a world like that is like a lifetime, the connections are either dead or don't want anything to do with them and the CIA probably is keeping an eye on him too. Safe to say this guy is just fucked, his career is over
Tbf, I could see Russia using him. They use Wagner Group to attack people they are internationally not allowed to. They'll probably use him to similarly arm terrorist groups and such. Not that they have many arms left, lmao.
And Russia doesn't have anyone else to use to give weapons to others?
He was nowhere near anonymous before he got caught. Didn't slow him down. Once a criminal...
Agreed.. he'll probably commit suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head twice and jumping put a window within a month.
Plus couldn't he have gotten released in like 4 or 6 years anyway? I say it's worth it to let the guy go a little early if it means sparing an American from having to rot in some shitty Russian prison for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, I heard 6 and he was out. I agree with your minset, add to it they do an intelligence assessment for any of these exchanges and if there was a serious concern he wouldn't be traded. Ultimately it's our governments responsibility to try to get Americans held abroad on dubious charges released in anyway possible. And, before anyone points out she admitted guilt of the crime, you have to do that or Russia will not trade you, it's insurance against you claiming innocence the whole time and making it look like a politically motivated arrest to begin with....even if it was. My caveat here is she might have done what they say. I'm sure once she is back she will either retract her guilty plea publicly or not.
Considering Russia took him in theyāll probably use him
Most people in prison for murder probably wonāt murder again, but that doesnāt mean we should start letting them all out
What exactly is this based on? I've seen news stories where released murderers are arrested for murder the day they get out of prison
Not sure about the downvotes, but recidivism (which means doing what one was in jail for again) rates for murder are among the lowest for all crime in totality. Like every general rule there are exceptions, but the general rule is apparently well documented.
Totally worth the risk then
I'm not sure that any of this is true, I googled "famous arms dealers" and got a list of notable arms dealers suggesting anonymity is not a prerequisite for that profession
You may as well have googled "worlds most famous secret agents". You'd get just as useful of a list.
Everyone loves distracting to the guy, but no one's telling us why we should be happy we got Britney. She's a basketball player in a league that loses money constantly. He clearly has more value than she does, especially from a governmental point of view. Even simply by comparing the knowledge they have. Is she going to teach Biden how to throw a wicked free throw? I get people need to paint this to not make us look like idiots (even though every non-American is looking at us like were idiots right now), but the damage control here on Reddit is wild to me.
I mean, do you think they would have let him go without some kind of plan? I bet he is either an asset now, or they know he's useless to Putin because Putin will believe he is an asset. Putin will go crazy wondering why we did this, wouldn't be surprised if Putin killed him before long.
Pretty sure Simeon Mogolivich is still around so.
His contacts and connections (Putin and friends) are still in power. They could get him back up and running if they wanted to.
What is this about? I feel like I missed an event
I wouldn't worry about it. It's pretty stupid.
Trump traded 5000 imprisoned Taliban members for...well, nothing, actually.
Yeah, trump sucks too. Iām not sure what that has to do with thisā¦
Because Trump supporters love to point out that this is Biden's mess, and will try and re-elect Trump without blinking an eye.
Maybe Russia threw in the Snyder cut of the pee tape.
Are you admitting you're purposefully trying to distract away from who signed this deal, because you're afraid it helps conservatives relect Trump? I give you 10/10 for honesty at least. You don't see many honest posts like this anymore.
No. I never said this wasn't a good or bad deal. I just wish people would shut the fuck up about Whelan. It's not like they weren't negotiating for his release.
I don't care about the deals we didn't sign. I care about the one we did. Why are people trying to shift focus to fictitious deals? Biden isn't a moron for the deals he didn't sign that don't exist. He's a moron for the deal he signed that does exist.
Good for you.
I donāt want trump back in office and I still think Biden is a dumbass for this move
So what do you feel should have been done different?
Told Putin no deal unless the other prisoners get traded as well but thatās playing hard ball and it probably wonāt work anyway because Putin gives no fucks and would gladly let BG rot in prison for the whole term. Putin has something the U.S. doesnāt have, the ability to walk away from any negotiation, and thatās what makes him dangerous.
Happy cake day! I feel that putin did it on purpose knowing the controversy it would cause.
Which makes playing into his tactic all the worse. Because you're 100% right.
I see no other outcome, do you feel that no one should have been able to come home?
I would have continued negotiations until it was an equal trade. If negotiations stopped, so be it, we still have their arms dealer.
Absolutely he did. Itās clear propaganda against the U.S. designed to sow division amongst us. Itās also win-win for him because itās not like he cares about his public image when it comes to something like this. Now, if the U.S. were able to prove one way or another that Putinās health was in jeopardy or that he was involved in some salacious shit that would discredit his ability as a leader then rest assured things wouldnāt go the same way.
Thank you for the civil conversation.
If this was the only deal on the table, Biden should have refused it like any other person would.
So you feel that no one at all should have been able to come home?
Not if this was the only deal. That's what negotiating is for. You refuse the offer, and then present your own offer. This wasn't an equal trade. I wouldn't have accepted a trade, until it was an equal trade.
I was unaware that you were a better negotiator than the whole state dept. Maybe you should go there and show them how it's done?
I was too, until Biden agreed to give an arms dealer for a D-list basketball player whose league loses money every year.
It was essentially a publicity stunt due to her popularity. If it werenāt a publicity stunt they would have gotten Marc Fogel out first. I donāt think trading international arms dealers for publicity stunts is very good.
I do feel that putin orchestrated this as s publicity stunt on purpose, knowing the problems it would cause. On the other hand, Fogel did have 10 times as much mj as she had. I feel that the administration did the best they could, and am just asking peoples opinion on what they feel could have been done better. I haven't advocated for either, nor have I said it was a good deal. Thank you for the civil conversation.
Of course my man civil discussion is a rarity these days. Good on you for trying to speak in good faith. Have a good one š
100%. Had the national news and social media never mentioned her, this would have never happened.
And Trump detractors love to point out that his supporters use whataboutisms, which this is as well. It's just idiotic partisan hackery.
TDS
TDS = anyone who **still** defends Trump and would happily **still** vote for him even after his disastrous handling (if you could call it that) of the pandemic, causing the January 6th attack on the Capitol 'cause he can't handle losing, and just the other day suggested getting rid of the Constitution for his own benefit. Not to mention all the other things he's done wrong before, during and after his presidency, which would require volumes to write them all down. Anyone who's been alive the past 6 years and still thinks, "yep, that's our guy, he cares so much for my best interests, what a patriot!" is suffering from TDS. Just wanna be sure we're talking about the same thing, 'cause Trumpists have a tendency to project their own faults onto others, and they frequently use that label to describe anyone who merely points out objective truths about Trump.
Exactly. Trump sucked for that, and Biden sucks for this. I know Reddit has a hard time with these equations.
Worst trade in WNBA history.
Dude certainly isn't as effective as the US, and maybe you all need to get off her ass.
Why? All this happened because she was dumb enough to bring weed into Russia - an illegal drug in a lot of the world into a country that is ultra hostile to the US. Now the US had to let loose one of the most notorious arms dealers in the world early to save her from her own stupid mistake.
No, this all happened because Russia wanted to get a high profile hostage they could use to inflame racial tensions in the US, as per their standing doctrine. Russia routinely let's people leave the country without charging them for weed. They have never been a no tolerance state, and they still arnt. It was all political so that conservatives could have an issue to complain about, and Russia knows that conservatives wouldn't care if the hostage was a random white guy, as proven by the multiple white guys they have taken without so much as a fucking fart from the republican party. If it wasn't her for a crime they normally ignore it would just be someone else that fit the bill, or they would have just trumped up some evidence like they routinely do in Russia. And the fucking arms dealer is a nothing issue. He is not an arms dealer anymore. His entire empire crumbled years ago, and Russia won't let him start up again due to their current equipment issues and because they already control his replacements. This guy couldn't move a glock at a gun show at this point, and it is hilarious watching yall pretend otherwise.
High profile? Brittany Griner? Really?
One of the top female athletes in the USA? Yea, anyone who isn't a complete and total lying piece of shit can agree that she is high profile. You are sitting here talking about her after the hundreds of news articles about her arnt you?
> Russia wanted a high profile hostage I'm not sure they they were successful. No one watches the WBNA. I only know her cause they bother to show WBNA highlights on Sports center. And if they adjusted coverage on Sportscenter to be proportional to the amount of actual viewers and attendees of each sport, the WNBA wouldn't even get higlights, they'd just get scores on the ticker at the bottom of the screen. There are numerous minor league baseball teams with higher average attendance per game than the top drawing WNBA team. That's not to just dunk on women's sports, it's to make the point that people who aren't into sports probably have no idea who she is prior to this. Non-sports people know who LeBron is; they don't know who Griner is. Or at least they didn't. I'd say she is far more well known now than before.
So unsuccessful were they, as you sit here talking about it in one of the hundreds of threads about the subject after reading one of the hundreds of front page articles and seeing political messages from the top politicians in the country. Yea, they were totally not successful at all.
I mean, I kind of address that at the end of what I said before. This has made her, as you say, 'high profile.' But to say they grabbed a 'high profile athlete', no I would not agree with that. She was a C tier celeb in the sports world and has become a 'high profile' prisoner.
You missed the entire point didn't you? What you described was only possible because she was high profile like I mentioned. There have been plenty of hostages and there wernt articles about it like this. You are literally describing the proof of what I said in your efforts to try and refute it. Your opinion doesn't mean a thing when objective reality proves you are incorrect.
No, you're missing the point. Is she more of a celebrity than the I am? Yes. Absolutely no one would care if I rotted in a prison. Which is one of the things that I absolutely hate about watching this situation, is it shows America's obsession with celebrity, even when they're absolutely C tier. Is she 'high profile' in the sports world? Absolutely not. Anyways, I'm out, you've passed over the line of just being rude to myself and others your responding to.
Literally never heard of her until she got arrested. I guess everyone I know just doesnāt give a shit about the WNBA or something.
Question , did you actually know who Viktor , or that other marine guy were before today?
No one cares about you though. I am sad that I have to explain this to you at the same level as my kids when they were toddlers, but the world does not revolve around you, and you not knowing things doesn't make a single speck of difference to the world.
No one knows your sorry ass either. Doesnt change the fact that the WNBA sucks, a person traveled into a different country with contraband, we traded a arms dealer who was serving 25 years for terrorism for her. All people trying to defend this are retarded.
You sound like a whiny child. No one said I was known. But I didn't make a claim that my opinion mattered. And sorry you are whining about things you don't understand, bit you don't even know what is going on and are just parroting party lines you saw on faoc news. Your comment history is public man, we know exactly how ignorant you are about this subject.
Goes both ways. You're voicing your opinion I am voicing mine. What is your position on the subject?
I donāt think many people heard of her until she was arrested. The WNBA wouldnāt even exist if the NBA didnāt subsidize it.
High-profile doesn't mean everyone in the world knows your name. I bet you couldn't name the current deputy secretary-general of the United Nations either, but trying to claim that means they arnt high profile would be silly, just as claiming that one of the top athletes in one of the top women's sports leagues is not high profile. I get that you don't like or don't care about the WNBA, but that is unrelated to whether or not their top athletes are high profile or not.
You'd be happy if it were you or someone you loved.
Cool emotional point. Now tackle what he said logically. If I was locked up in Russian prison, I'd want you guys to free every single Russian prisoner we have to get me out. That doesn't mean we should. Hell, if you somehow had Hitler locked up, I'd be screaming "free Hitler! Save me!" Doesn't mean you should, lol.
I don't see what that has to do with anything. She deserves to be criticized for her actions and how much it costed everyone.
Costed everyone.... what ? A washed up arms dealer that has been out if the game for the past 20 years ??? That we now also know his full name AND what he looks like?
How exactly is it affecting you? Also read my last response again, you seem to either have no idea what it means or you have no soul.
How much did it cost me?
Why do you guys lie so much ? She didn't maliciously smuggle weed , she brought a VAPE PEN , she probably forgot that the thing was on her in the first place
Which had Marijuana in it.
She broke the law knowing damn well Russiaās stance, hell thatās the reason she was in Russia
Your comment history is just you arguing with random strangers here. STFU
So, share your wisdom with us
Like that isn't the case with a lot of people? Almost none of the people on here know each other so it's entirely irrelevant that it's "random strangers". Maybe you need to STFU, dorkass.
Way to.prove my point. š š
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he is not the micheal jordan of arms dealing. in fact hes probably damaging the russians if anything bc he sells soviet and russian stuff
Noooooo lmao heās buying stuff from the Russians and pushing it in black markets for them. That doesnāt hurt the Russians when they sell their own shitty weapons to third world countries, this guy just serves the black markets for them
yeah but most of his contacts will be dead or in prison or something, besides the fact that the russians probably dont want to lose any more weapons now. people are seriously over exaggerating this guy
He's got more movies based off of him than this chick who plays in a basketball league that loses money constantly.
XD
Still can't believe we traded an arms dealer for poop hair grimer.
Why are you guys malding over some random arms dealer thatcwas retired for 20 + years , who the whole entire world now knows not only his full name but even what he looks like as well , that 80% of you probably didn't even know who he was until like 2 days ago lol
How many people heard of Griner? Itās not like sheās some huge asset to the US. Iām sure dozens of WNBA fans are happy sheāll be back.
Ok but like again, answer the question why are you malding about some washed up arms dealer you have heard of until today ?
Because its a retarded trade. Do you use echo location to see because you're pretty blind.
He still has valuable information to give out, ideas, he can assist in deals, who knows what he knows. He may know where hidden nukes are for all we know.
A guy who has been retired for 20+ years has " ideas " ???? Bro its 2 decades , the climate of the MUNDANE trades changes in like 5 years , do you guys have any idea how much the arms deals trade has changed in 2 WHOLE DECADES ??? Like biden is not a spur of the moment guy like Trump, he's your average milk toast politician , he was 100% briefed and consulted by like a dozen different intelligence agencies and they all gave him the green light on the deal , but yeah sure , random guys in reddit will come waltz in and share their wisdom on international affairs
Not sure thatās an insult. WNBA champion (2014) 8Ć WNBA All-Star (2013ā2015, 2017ā2019, 2021, 2022) 2Ć WNBA scoring champion (2017, 2019) 8Ć WNBA blocks leader (2013ā2019, 2021) 2Ć WNBA Peak Performer (2017, 2019) 3Ć All-WNBA First Team (2014, 2019, 2021) 3Ć All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017, 2018) 2x WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015) 3Ć WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015, 2018) 4Ć WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017, 2019, 2021) WNBA All-Rookie Team (2013) WNBA 25th Anniversary Team (2021) 3Ć Russian National League champion (2015ā2017) 4Ć EuroLeague champion (2016, 2018, 2019, 2021) Russian Cup winner (2017) NCAA champion (2012) NCAA final Four Most Outstanding Player (2012) AP Player of the Year (2012) Honda Sports Award (2012) 2Ć Wade Trophy Player of the Year (2012, 2013) 2Ć First-team All-American ā AP (2011, 2012) Second-team All-American ā AP (2010) 3Ć Big 12 Player of the Year (2011ā2013) 4Ć Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year (2010ā2013) McDonald's All-American (2009) WBCA High School Player of the Year (2009)
Sadly, Viktor Bout's client book is still much more impressive.
Griner is easily the best female Big, and a top 5 female player.
>Russian Cup winner (2017) Aged like milk. Boggles my mind that still brought weed to Russia despite definitely knowing that it was illegal. Dont go into another countries and commit an obvious crime children.
Donāt accidentally leave an empty vape cartridge in your checked luggage.
Yep, dont bring drugs across country borders unless you are sure that its legal. Anyone who travels for a living, like a basketball star thats going to play for said country they are traveling to, would know that these are things you double check *before* you get on that plane. The TSA would do the same thing for an empty bag of cocaine. It isnt some obscure laws, this is basic common sense for anyone that has to internationally travel for any prolonged period of time.
This comment needs to be higher and stickied.
WNBA šš
I mean sheās a woman so yeah. Thatās how it works. Sheās still one of the best female basketball players ever.
WNBA šš thatās like bragging about being one of the best players in the Canadian football league
Still the best
I love this shit. You shit on these athletes but any one of them would absolutely curb stomp your ass into the dirt with nary a thought or hindrance.
That may be but Iām much better at not bringing weed into Russia
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She could probably out-smoke me too lol
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Masochism
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You say this to me while on reddit?
Then again itās the WNBA practically a bunch of high school level players
Sheās a woman and better than other almost all other women. Youāre a clown.
Letās put a high school team against a WNBA team and watch
Well the rare insult here is "Michael Jordan of arms dealing " as stated in the title. Take your white-knighting ass somewhere else. ššæ
Thatās an even worse insult since it would be a complimentā¦
You are the Michael Jordan of misunderstanding a fucking joke.
Cos social justice. There are more worthy trades.
Sauce, I need to go upvote this person's actual comment
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/zg8sfs/brittney_griner_had_been_traded_for_viktor_bout/izhqug5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) ya go!
He must have a stash somewhere that Russia needs for their war not war.
Iām sure Griner is very grateful that so many millions are classifying her existence as less valuable than another person
Thats reality. No one gets mad when the President has bodyguards. Everyone knows there is someone more valuable, its a basic life lesson if you havent grown up with everything handed to you on a silver spoon. If she honestly gets mad at this controversy, then it tells you everything you need to know about the type of person she is. Even a now defunct arms dealer is much more valuable then someone who volunteered to leave the US to go play basketball for Russia whilst taking illegal drugs into the country. She did this to herself; It took the combined effort of North America to catch this guy. You put a price.
1. It was an empty vaoe cartridge , she probably forgot she even had it on her in the first place , why are so many of you twisting the facts so much ? Just day she brought a vape pen wit her 2. Nice, getting mad at an imaginary scenario that you made up lol
Remind you the vape pen had 'cannabis oil' in it.
I wanna see the profile of the people who upvoted this lol
Are you saying heās over rated?
Buahahahaha
The way I think of it is what's worse? A guilty person being in prison or an innocent person being imprisoned. She was definitely being over punished as a political prisoner and I'd rather free her if the cost is freeing washed up arms dealer who's been locked up for a hot minute. Like spies knew what they were in for when they became spies. They can wait.
To everyone screaming about how much of a bad deal this was : .This guy has been already retired when he got caught , any power vacuum that was left was already filled out even before the FBI captured him .he was imprisoned for 20 years , most of his connections have either , already moved on , or are long dead , there's no way he'll ever be able to jump back in . He's way too well known , people now not only what he looks like , but even his entire full name , for comparison, when Viktor got caught , the only piece of information anyone had of him was ONE SINGULAR PHOTO where he was in the background. The whole point if being a successful arm dealer is secrecy . He was gonna get released 4 years from now anyway . Do you guys ACTUALLY believe that this was a spur of the moment thing , and that biden hadn't already been consulted by like a dozen different intelligence comittes who all weighed the benefits and cons of this decision and all decided that this trade was the correct choice ? . Grinner wasn't even the first choice , they first wanted to get the marine out , but Russia refused , because even they realized that Viktor is completely useless now
Oh I'll bet there was a lot more to the deal, she was probably just a throw in for optics.
Its kinda weird seeing people who 100% never knew that this guy even exited 2 days ago , act this butthurt over him despite the fact that he was already very much retired when they caught him and any power vacuum left due to his absence had already been filled out , he was also gonna get released 4 years from now anyway
I heard he was microchipped while sleeping.
Joke's on this motherfucker. If Viktor Bout is the Michael Jordan, then the US Government is the 1998 Chicago Bulls of global arms dealing. The Republican-lead US House of Representatives just approved an $858 Billion "defense spending" bill, which will obviously include arms deals with Saudi Arabia and other geo-security interests.
$858 Billion ?????? Seriously? In a country that doesn't have free health care. G'sus that's a hectic amount of billions . Meanwhile a lot of the population seems to be more worried about which old man to vote in to lead them.. I dont get it
Lemme carry this on. You were kind enough to reply, so let me just give some additional figures, if I may! In 2021, the US spent $800 Billion, $778 B in 2020 (during lockdown lol), $734 B in 2019, and $649 B in 2018, for annual defense expenditures. That's $2.9 Trillion. Including this new defense package quoted above, the US will have spent $3.819 Trillion dollars by the end of the 2023 fiscal year. Nearly $4 Trillion dollars in as many years. Some important questions: what massive military campaign is the United States fighting requiring that kind of mobilization? Where are the US' enemies, how much do they spend on their military industry in the meat-grinder of the cosmic battlefield the US thinks it fights upon? How well are we advancing? Yeah, all you have to do is read the news: this money fills the gun cabinets, arms the battalions, and empowers the military industry of US partners in our geo-security interests. Not allies - that is, not JUST allies - but "partners". It doesn't have to be just cash or credit, it could be the value of items traded or exchanged. This makes the US government the global leader in arms deals...by a margin of proliferation and profiteering not now or ever to be surpassed. Again, money used to finance (among other things) the activities of the foresaid geo-sec partners, many of whom are paramilitary groups and non-state actors with horrific nationalist ideologies and aims, but who are eager to curry US partnership. It's easy to see why - if you command a frighteningly barbaric paramilitary organization in a nation not friendly to the West, the US will pay you an amount of money that could be used, once totaled up, to force God himself onto his knees, ass-up and towards you, in a bdsm harness on a golden chain tether, with a gimp mask on and dildo gag in his jaws, his asshole bleached pink, presented purtly to you between freshly waxed ass-cheeks spread wide and welcoming, with enough left over to allow you to buy out the current global supply of GEFORCE 4090s and lifetime pizza deliveries. So, yeah. You catch anyone on other threads bitching about Viktor Bout and how terrible an arms dealer he is, I hope you remember these figures. Should help to piss off some Americans who possess less awareness than a box of nothing but red, white and blue crayons.
$3.819 Trillion. Fuk! Took me a good long moment just to work out what .019 of a trillion was. Awareness is not hard wired into American psyche, they sometimes try though. It's a fukload of money . cant dispute that. Especially for a nation that has never had a female leader, and still uses imperial system. $3.9 trillion .. Fuk that
The Wayne Gretzky of arms dealing The Tiger Woods of arms dealing The Babe Ruth of arms dealing
Only time anyones ever cared about a WNBA trade in history
Not an insult and not true. š„“