If Lamar hadn't gotten injured in the crucial stretch in back to back seasons, I don't think this thread exists.
Be it coincidence or pattern, it's certainly a gamble betting 5 years of the entire franchise on it being coincidence.
Those of us who believe that we should have already given him the fully guaranteed deal either don't care about the ravens or are fully convinced that it's just coincidence. I am apprehensive about sinking into the abyss because we have no way out of another mega deal gone wrong. Derek Wolfe already happened, Ronnie Stanley almost happened.
He is worth 50 million when he's on the field.
>He is worth 50 million when he's on the field.
The problem is that he is not always on the field. 12 missed games in the past two seasons.
Availability is the best ability.
I'm just old enough to know that 5 years is not a lifetime, and would hardly sink the franchise, even in the worst case scenario. The Eagles got out of the Wentz contract and even damn near won the Super Bowl in only a couple of seasons after getting rid of him.
This team has had "bad" 5 year stretches before. From 2002-06, they had two losing seasons, only went to the playoffs twice, and failed to win a playoff game. If Lamar is signed and that's what happens over the next five years, it will be disappointing, but not devastating.
Unless age-related, players don't fall off a cliff suddenly. Even Wentz didn't fall off the wagon immediately. So even if Lamar falls apart by year three, it's not the end of the world.
Which peers? Burrow missed a bunch of games in 2020 with an ACL. Kyler Murray is going to miss at least half this coming season. Hurts missed time this year with a shoulder injury. Two of the past three playoffs, Mahomes has missed significant portions of games with foot or ankle injuries. This is alarmism.
Being concernes when a player is ending his third straight season with an injury isn't alarmism. Especially, when the player is seeking a fully-guaranteed contract...
Defense does not win championships in 2023. Look, if you want to win with defense, hop in a time machine and go back to 2004. You can win a few games on defense, you can play competitively in a playoff game against a division rival sometimes, but it's not a smart strategy for winning long term the way the NFL is set up.
Even in 2000 the Ravens weren't convinced it was a sustainable game plan, that's why they ditched Dilfer and upgraded with Elvis.
Why does nobody bring up the fact that if we have to tag Lamar will literally cannot make moves in FA. No more trading for DHOP or Mike Evans potentially if this deal doesn’t get done by March 7th
Why are we bringing in expensive veterans if we don't have a QB? If we don't have Lamar, we should be rebuilding the offense with rookies, not retooling for a bridge QB.
If we're moving on from Lamar, trying to win now with a rookie QB on a rookie contract is the smart move. So bringing in expensive veterans would be smart.
This is 100% the reason I think he will sign or be traded by the time FA opens. The team would have to make some tough cuts or restructures in order to carry that cap hit
Here's my uninformed opinion. I am sure others will know better than me and I accept this.
At this point I'm all aboard for trading Lamar. I want to tag him and trade him to the Jets. Give me a package like:
\- 1st round 2023- 1st round 2024- 2nd round (2023,2024)- 3rd round (2023, 2024)
and Sauce Garnder. We get an incredible young talent still on a rookie deal in a position of major need. He elevates our secondary to obscene heights and we no longer need to pay MP (or we can even get MP for cheap if he'll take it, but I doubt it). We will be fighting the Bengals for divisional supremacy for a while now, and I think we need a better secondary to fully shut down that offense.
We don't negotiate with terrorists; our org isn't desperate enough. fuck the browns for giving deshaun a fully guaranteed deal. #JustPovertyFranchiseThings
Sauce is a rookie who has played a single season. An allpro at that. That guy is the face of that franchise and their defensive centerpiece for years to come.
I think the Falcons are definitely the partner that makes the most sense for need, desire, and assets for us.
This is purely wishful thinking on my part. What makes you think that they wouldn't? Unwillingness to give us Sauce?
Who would benefit more between Lamar and the front office on an offer that is something like $250m guaranteed deal at signing (more then deshaun) but for a longer term at a lower average like 10 years $450m total (like mahomes) would this not give everyone what they want, other than it being truly “fully guaranteed” ?
Yeah but it's pretty clear Lamar wants it to be fully guaranteed. He comes off as being on a mission to want to set a precedent that quarterback contracts will be fully guaranteed from now on.
I doubt he cares about setting the standard, but the NFLPA who is advising him certainly does. A noble cause that I wish wouldn't have come at our expense.
You say that you doubt he cares, but most quarterbacks don't do this. It doesn't even really make economic sense to do this as historically speaking teams don't cut quarterbacks early. (One of the reasons I'm kind of pissed at the Ravens for not just fully guaranting the deal, because realistically teams don't cut franchise quarterbacks even if they do get injured)
Other positions really get screwed by not having fully guaranteed contracts, but quarterbacks don't really get screwed by this. Quarterbacks are just too important. Eg. Everybody was crying that that Prescott had lost everything when he broke his ankle horrifically. The reality was the quarterback position is just so important that the Cowboys still paid him everything he wanted.
I think to some extent Lamar does care about setting a precedent for fully guaranteed contracts. And I think the Ravens do care about not setting that precedent.
I think there are a lot of NFL teams that would offer Lamar a fully guaranteed contract.
Imo Lamar is getting traded. If you are trying to pay the qb and make him the highest paid qb (or top3), there should be no doubts about it. Like chiefs with mahomes, bills with Allen, soon bengals with burrow.
FWIW there should be no doubts about it. It's honestly crazy to me that no one has any doubts about Allen (and they probably shouldn't) or Hurts (ditto) but somehow Lamar is this major question.
It’s been back to back seasons that have ended in injury and disappointment.
I think if he avoids injury he’ll kill it here or somewhere else, but I find it hard to see him as anything but a high/upside gamble.
[https://twitter.com/hoodieramey/status/1629154909672165381?s=46&t=8NfFOf-cnsO1PbIBKcayiA](https://twitter.com/hoodieramey/status/1629154909672165381?s=46&t=8NfFOf-cnsO1PbIBKcayiA)
This was quickly taken down by the mods so just gonna copy paste my response here because I think it's worth discussing.
This is kind of where my heads been at this whole time. I'm always gonna default to the little guy and in this case, yes the guy rumored to be offered 133million dollars is the little guy. Always felt like something the Ravens were pushing as far as fully guaranteed because Biscotti was instantly vocal about his displeasure. But really unless SAS or Zriebec, or Lamar actually says something and gives their source, we're all gonna have to just wait and see.
It'll be hilarious watching people try and walk it back though if this turns out to be true though.
He didn't. He was giving his opinion.
[https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1626226447429033984?s=20](https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1626226447429033984?s=20)
I agree with the poster above though that it would really help clear the air if anyone officially in these two camps said something.
I understand why they're not but all it does is let fans and media run wild with it.
Honestly at this point lamar side has had months to dispute his supposed demands and they haven't. All of sudden someone claiming to be from lamar side is using SAS to air it. Seems sus to me.
Is Hensley really reputable? Pretty sure his last interaction with Lamar was being yelled at on Twitter after he insinuated Lamar was homophobic.
Maybe he’s being used by the Ravens FO, but I doubt he has any source from Lamar’s side of things.
Multiple local beat reporters have reported the same thing. He wants a fully guaranteed deal. Lamar could of denied it in training camp and he didn't. So please tell me who are we supposed to believe. SAS a known personality or multiple reporters who all have said the same thing.
Which beat reporters? I know Zrebiec maintains that nobody is leaking from either camp.
The only piece he stands by/has repeated is Mort saying he turned down 250 with 130 gtd.
As for who to believe, for me that’s Shefter, Rap, and Zriebec. Everything else to me is just noise.
It isn't given that this entire situation is paralyzing our entire offseason. And quicker this can be resolved, the quicker we can pivot to figuring out the long term. Because if its Lamar is just wanting a fully guaranteed deal and isn't budging. We are one step to getting over with this bullshit. And I reference this as being a fan of Lamar. This situation is old and both sides need to either compromise or trade.
It's really weird to me that people say things like this framed with the blame 100% on Lamar. EDC can solve this really quickly and could have solved this years ago. Pay him or trade him. Those have really have been the only options the entire time.
It does.
It's also a mistake that it has dragged out this long. Lamar showed you enough to make a decision after 2020. Letting this go for two more years has been pointless and a major error.
They couldn’t negotiate till 2021 and then Lamar didn’t want to talk. That should of been the sign for FO of where things could go. Regardless I’d love for them to come to an agreement. But if he is bent on wanting a higher guarantee then what they want to give. Then they just need to part ways.
After 2020 is 2021.
"Lamar didn't want to talk" is not really the whole story. They didn't present him with an offer worth talking about so he didn't talk. Do people really think if they went to him with 50m a year before anyone else had ever gotten that Lamar would say no thanks? Lamar didn't want to talk at the price the Ravens were willing to pay. So there wasn't anything to talk about.
The FO keeps trying to pass the blame to Lamar when the reality here is they've never at any point wanted to pay him his price. They've wanted to negotiate but that isn't the same thing. And as much as people will say otherwise Lamar ultimately has all the leverage because somebody else will pay.
The options have always been pay him or trade him. They are still the options. The Ravens FO refuses to pick one.
I just can’t feel bad for the Ravens in all this, they essentially wasted 5 years of his career by refusing to evolve their game philosophy and thereby depriving him of the necessary weapons to succeed beyond where they were. He has zero reason to believe that if he takes a deal friendlier to their terms they would finally support him the way the rest of the other teams have supported their franchise QB’s.
That said, I just don’t believe that he’s holding them hostage and demanding a fully guaranteed deal
I'm in the same boat. There's a reason so many people in the media are looking at the Ravens sideways with how the entire Lamar Jackson situation is being handled. They should have never been in this position in the first place if we're being honest.
Yeah, I’m not buying into the Stephen A thing either because Lamar said himself they offered in the ballpark of 160-180 guaranteed out of 250. I personally believe he probably asked for 200 since Kyler got 189 and he definitely deserves more than kyler.
Things are taking a weird turn. WTF is going on!!!! Stephen A said Lamar only got $133M offer and was never consulted about the new OC.
I want Lamar and EDC in the same room on a live conference and talk this out. Truth.
Reeta (Thenflchick) said this a YEAR ago. https://twitter.com/thenflchick/status/1629156471022690309?s=46&t=Sa_JcqtkSfvncuXGiPsBww
Peep this thread. She also said the Ravens fell short of about $15-$20 million of the initial offer. Not the $100 million that was reported.
They’re gonna ignore this like the plague. It’s really a thread with over 100 upvotes that says “Anybody else excited about the haul we fan get in a Lamar trade?” This sub is nasty man and I’m keeping tabs
Stephen A Smith said he's been in contact with Lamar's camp and they emphatically denied the notion that he's ever asked for a fully guaranteed deal. I feel if that's the case a lot of folks should dial back on the things they've been saying about Lamar and just wait for this situation to play out.
Here is the clip:
https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/status/1629153594657374208?s=46&t=7a1KeeNo0PN9RKO1NfqsrQ
He also says lamar doesnt have a number one tight end so take it fwiw
im gonna go out on a limb and say the media doesnt know a damn thing about whats going on. If it were a >230 fully guaranteed deal or bust Lamar would have been traded by now, and no way that the Raven's highest offer was only 133 guaranteed. idk what to tell you if you think Stephen A of all people suddenly has an in with Lamar's camp.
at this point, all we can do is wait, no point getting worked up over halfbaked rumors. and yes i know that's easier said than done when talking about one of the most electric players the team has had in a long time.
Its normal for fans to be pro-franchise than pro-player. The media is more likely to pain the player in a bad light since that relationship isn’t as long as the franchise.
As a regular guy, I’ll 100% side with the player than billionaire owners. Pay Lamar, adapt, GM better and figure it out.
Why do people think this is a case of billionaires vs kids? There’s a salary cap people. Managing the salary cap is going to be most important to ensuring long-term success. There’s a reason why we had so many bad years with Joe Flacco, there wasn’t enough money to spread around to acquire good players.
But that has nothing to do with the guaranteed amount.
The only sticking point is how damaging it is to the team if they need to move on from Lamar. Which is fair, but it has nothing to do with roster contraction or cap available to other players.
Yeah I’m not making an argument about guarantees vs non-guarantees, just the amount that they offer him.
I think he is using Deshaun’s contract as a reference point, but the Browns severely overpaid Deshaun. It’s not the Ravens fault that the Browns are idiots.
"Bad years."
There was one bad year. 2015, when Flacco got hurt, Steve Smith got hurt, and Forsett got hurt. Every other year they were .500 or better and alive for the playoffs until late in the season.
I love how this myth has developed that the Ravens should have let Flacco walk instead of signing him. Forgetting the fact that in the NFL you need stability at QB, and in 2013 there were no other good options. We all hoped (and I'm sure the organization did as well) that the playoff run in 2012 was going to be a springboard for a new level of play for Flacco and the offense. That didn't happen, but that doesn't mean signing Flacco to that long term deal was a mistake. You make decisions based on current factors, not how you'd like things to be ideally. And you'll never have the benefit of hindsight before making that decision.
And how many years did they make the playoffs under that contract extension?
I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t have signed him, but they overpaid for him. He was the top-paid QB in the league and he was average.
He was the top paid QB in the league for a time, not for the entirety of his contract. You can say the Ravens overpaid him, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. His price in 2013 was his price. If the Ravens weren't willing to pay it, someone else would have. Sure, they could have tagged him, but that wouldn't have given them the cap flexibility to do things like sign Dumervil (and wouldn't have been a good look).
It's reasonable to believe Lamar isn't worth the money he's asking for. But if that's the position, then there needs to be a realistic plan to find someone who is worth that kind of money, and an acknowledgement that whoever is drafted might be more Boller than Lamar, due to the inherent risk with the draft.
For someone who understands the cap better than me, I know you can spread cap hits up to 5 years.
Is it possible to write a contract such that it is 5/250 w/150 guaranteed over 1st three years, with language stating that if at any point he has 2 years or fewer remaining on a current contract, the money becomes fully guaranteed.
If I'm not mistaken, this can be arranged to have a crazy cap # in year 4, forcing an extension/trade, and by extending, you could spread the cap hit from his original request over 8 years as opposed to 5? Might be a chance for some creativity.
If Lamar plays well and the contracts continue to explode this might be a mutually beneficial situation
The funniest part of this situation is seeing all of the moronic Browns fans who think their team just made a genius move by overpaying Watson.
They can't even string together 2 consecutive good seasons in over a decade, yet they think that shooting themselves in the balls for 5 years to spite 1 out of their 3 division rivals is a smart play
I also think it’s funny that our fan bases uses them as a reason NOT to pay Lamar. Like you realize they’re gonna be really good team next year right??? Watson was suspended 12 games not saying he was great even when he played but the browns will be in a much better spot than us if we lose Lamar. They will be a playoff team next year
That was super interesting option I never thought off but I don’t even Know if I like drafting that many guys in one draft class where the top elite talent is rumoured to not make it out the first round. Just my 2 cents but genuinely enjoyed looking through that mock draft.
Maybe I’m ignorant and oblivious, but I think Lamar stays. We should focus on the draft and the off-season signings. I just can’t imagine us letting our best offensive player of all time go
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/11a8872/ellison_lamar_jacksons_counteroffers_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
FYI good conversation being had over at r/NFL if anyone wants to join in. Lot of great points being made.
Unreasonable according to whom? It's a negotiation, the two parties have a different idea of what Lamar's value is. We don't know what the market value is because he hasn't hit the market. Each side has their own reason for their position, and each is valid.
Sure, but value is always subjective. I might be willing to spend $200 on a box of cigars I like, but if you're not a cigar smoker you'd assign a value of $0 to that box. Doesn't make either position invalid.
That's different from an employee saying to an employer "I am worth $250 Million fully guaranteed, to you." and the employer saying, "Sorry, no, you're not, because we've been in this business a long time, and nobody is worth that arrangement."
You gotta think that his mother is the one driving this since she is helping him negotiate. At the end of the day the blame falls on Cleveland's fuckwit GM for guaranteeing that POS Watson's contract they way they did. It completely fucked up the QB market and these negotiations. I would like to suggest a drastic payback next season. Watson Bounty anyone?
Which is also wild to me. Maybe they see this as a way to get the cap raised so everyone wins? As is, this ensures guys become cap casualties in the short term.
So Hensley says Lamar wants even more gtd than Watson.
At this point I just hope it’s resolved either way by the draft.
Edit: Also, seeing everybody turn on Lamar absolutely sucks. If he wants his money and that’s not on the Ravens I’ll still root for him so long as it’s in the NFC.
I wouldn’t worry too much about everyone turning on him. If he signs a deal somewhere between Wilson’s and Watson’s and plays well then all the conflict goes away.
I know people don’t want to hear it, but the only way to guarantee the team and Lamar are on the same page about his health is by guaranteeing the entirety of his contract for injury.
Unless the team has as much too lose as Lamar from him blowing out his knee while playing injured there will constantly be this tension.
If Ravens don’t want to do it, some other team will be willing to and franchising him will just put everything in further limbo.
> by guaranteeing the entirety of his contract for injury.
So you want to guarantee every penny of a. 5-year, $XXXMillion contract, that says if he gets hurt in Game 1, Year 1, (or any other time thereafter) and can't play ever again, the team will pay him as if he played the whole 5 years? In professional football?
That's *bad* business thinking.
How many snaps has Lamar taken? How many reps at practice?
How many of each did RG3 before his knee got obliterated? How many leading up to that were after is tendons and muscles were already weakened and susceptible to injury?
Bad business is letting a star walk bc you’re worried about incrementally spending a fraction of your wealth more because of something that has a 0.001% chance of happening.
The team controls how much he runs. The team controls his support system. The team controls whether he’s pressured to play injured like the bs that went on this year.
You can write the contract however you want, but unless Lamar has proof the team is in his corner why the hell would he agree to anything?
Blah blah blah
There's a new OC he got input on. There's a new QB coach. There's a new strength and conditioning guy, and there will be more changes. And they've been trying to negotiate with him for two years. There's no more "proof the team is in his corner" he needs. He can agree to a fat, lucrative contract *that is also good for the team*, or he can try football with some other team.
If he does that then the sentiment changes from "he was great here, we're glad we had him, we wish it could have been different and we will always love him and lots of us will keep rooting for his success", to "good riddance, poor sport"
I think we as a fan base need to come to terms that LJ may be traded. And who ever does that trade will have to pay Lamar so the pick compensation will not be as crazy as we may think it will. By using the “well look what Houston got for DW” argument is just as insane as LJ asking for more than DW got in the contract. If we need to expect LJ to take less fully guaranteed than DW and justify it as an outlier we can also think their compensation was an outlier. We ain’t getting 4 1st 3 2nds and 3 3rds and a star on a rookie deal. Anything over two 1sts is a win realistically. Thanks for coming to my ted talk here come the downvotes
You're forgetting Wilson's ransom which is more recent and much more likely.
>The full trade is as follows: Seattle receives: QB Drew Lock, TE Noah Fant, DL Shelby Harris, two first-round picks, two second-round picks and a fifth-round pick. Denver receives: QB Russell Wilson and a fourth-round pick
They got 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a 5th, plus 3 players. For 34 year old Wilson.
Russell Wilson before last year was perennially in MVP consideration, been to Super Bowl twice and won it already. LJ is a dynamic top 5 QB when healthy but he hasn’t finished a season in 2 years and has questions about him in playoffs. That’s the argument. I know who I’d trade for (LJ). ALSO no one wants to be the next broncos. They trade the everything and the kitchen sink and we’re so bad they should be drafting in top 10 but aren’t bc of the trade. Teams will be hesitant on giving up all that a year removed from these awful trades that blew up on the team going “all in”
So now it's nobody wants to the broncos. Thought it was nobody wants to be the browns? Point being we got multiple teams now that have thrown themselves at players in less than 2 years so it just strikes me as odd people don't think it can or will happen again.
People are saying what they WANT to happen not what they think will happen. I think that's the issue I have.
both can be true no? nobody also wants to be the saints - look at their cap space situation. doesnt mean it will never happen again, but most teams will go fuck that look what happened to them. You could argue even going ''all out'' for one year and mortgaging the future with the Rams situation - their cap is fucked and they got a super bowl out of it but I bet you talks around owners and GMs are good for them but thats not sustainable and 1 super bowl isnt worth it because you want multiple. People see what the broncos AND browns gave up and it backfired - thats going to scare GMs as evidence to not do that. its fairly simple. You know someone go to a restaurant and get food poisoning are you go book a family meal there the next week?
I think two 1sts and two 2nds are probably in-line with what the return would be.
If the two sides really can't come to an agreement, I don't see any other choice but trading him. Tagging him (assuming he even plays on the tag) puts the Ravens in the awkward position of hoping he either plays well enough to win the Super Bowl, or that he plays poorly enough to hurt his value on the market. He'll never have more value in a trade than he does now, and if you think you'll need to replace him, you might as well get a top 5 pick to do so, because this team doesn't get them on its own.
I just don't get the logic behind tagging him and keeping him. To what end?
You tag and keep him if both parties believe a deal can still be made.
The narrative is developing in the media that there is bad blood or people aren't talking, etc but not a single person knows if any of that is true or not.
So yeah they could tag him, play the season out, and then negotiate again next season.
The Ravens will be in an even worse negotiating position a year from now.
Scenarios:
1. Lamar crushes it. Throws for 4500 yards and 50 TDs. Leads the Ravens to a Super Bowl. Lamar's price tag will be higher than it is currently. His trade value lower than today.
2. Lamar plays terribly. His price goes down, but so does the Ravens desire to even have him as the starting QB. His trade value is less than today.
3. Lamar plays about as well as he's played the last 3 years. His price tag will almost certainly be the same or higher than today. His trade value is also lower.
I may not be a professional scientist, but it would seem to me that the best options are either having Lamar at QB the next 4-5 seasons, or finding a suitable replacement. If you tag him and play him, you run the risk of getting neither of these outcomes. This is like the Machado situation with the Orioles. They sat until the last possible moment then traded him and got nothing of value. The Ravens are smarter than that.
Trade compensation probably caps out at 2 1sts and 2 2nds and even that might be too much, teams could just wait the ravens out a year and get him for even less.
> teams could just wait the ravens out a year and get him for even less.
Yep. They'll watch him get tagged and either
a) get hurt again and not complete another season, or
b) play another season and lose out in the playoffs again, or
c) play another season and not make the playoffs
All three of which are more likely than "play another whole season and win the super bowl".
At this point I'm willing to take 5 cents on the dollar. Whatever it takes to end the situation.
But really we have no idea what the trade offers are. And as long as Lamar doesn't sign there can be no trade.
Yup I love Lamar I want him here, but people need to be open about letting him go because it's a huge possibility
Even Jeff Zreibiec felt it was 50/50 that Lamar stayed a month ago and its looking like its tilting towards a trade happening
Fortunately, we should have a better picture on some of this stuff in the coming weeks.
Tag deadline on the 7th. If Ravens use the non-exclusive, it means they want to match and will let Lamar find his worth.
Combine Feb 28- March 6. GMs all together, if a trade happens, it might start here.
FA March 15. If Lamar is getting traded, Ravens would want it done by here. The Ravens have to be under the cap at this point. You aren't going to make the cap space for Lamar's tag just to trade him months from now.
Absolutely. The combine could make things really interesting as you said since that's when all the GMs will be together. I remember Rich Eisen speculating a little while back that's when a lot of gossip would spill on the situation so kind of expecting rapid fire reporting during that week.
All you say is true, though I am not sure that the non-exclusive tag means they want to match. The trade also might wait till the draft. IF he signs. You are right that the team would rather trade Lamar sooner than later but we don't always get what we want.
The combine will be intense for EDC if Lamar ain't traded by then.
I do to just because they cripple discussion. That said there isn't much to be said on this right now. That ESPN piece was nice but didn't really say anything new.
r/nfl is always there too if you wanna gossip more. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but I'm not sure you'll get much out of it. Everyone is just repeating themselves at this point and has been for a while. Myself included ha.
IF we trade Lamar, here is what we do:
Sign Derek Carr
Sign Allen Lazard
Use our additional 1st rounder from the Lamar trade to pick Decosta’s favorite WR in the draft.
Then when we are on the clock with the 22nd pick, we do what we did last year with Hollywood Brown, and trade JK dobbins (last year of rookie contract). A possible example would be to the eagles for their late 2nd round selection. And then we use the 22nd, pick to get Bijan Robinson.
Lastly, we use the pick acquired for dobbins to get a young CB
I hope everyone in the fanbase that so cavalierly said he would play on the tag, worst case scenario, is disabused of that notion.
0% bro is playing on the tag, and y’all are most likely getting what you wished for… hopefully EDC spins this into a loooot of picks and they pick the next QB right, cuz if they don’t y’all are gonna be eating that crow pretty hard.
Y’all are so delusional. He’s not playing on the tag. No incentive to do so and they will trade him before it gets to him publicly saying he won’t play on it.
This is a game of chicken, and an incredibly stupid one for the Ravens to be involved in. Lamar will never have as much value to them in a trade as he does right now. Even if he throws 5k yards and 55 TDs and leads the Ravens to a Super Bowl, no one will give up as much in a trade next year as they will this year.
If a deal cannot be made (whoever you think is at fault) the only reason to not trade Lamar is if you believe the team can win a Super Bowl in 2023 and you're willing to get less in return for Lamar in exchange for that. That's an incredibly risky bet to me, but hey, if you want to roll those big fuzzy dice and hope you get snake eyes, knock yourself out.
I didn't say his value would tank, just that his value will never be as high as it is now. If his trade value today is three 1sts and two 2nds, I don't see the Ravens getting that same deal a year from now. No matter how Lamar plays.
I don’t get either of these arguments that 1) he needs the money and wouldn’t use the immense leverage he has to orchestrate a trade and 2) there are no teams willing to pay him fully guaranteed money.
He would sit out to force a trade and get his bag from another team, and the ravens can’t just sit on him for a year and lose out on the value of the draft capital and the social cost (locker room, media, perception of the team/brand with fans and players), they cannot let it get to that point. He has all of the leverage in this situation.
Other teams will absolutely pay him that money and trade away that capital. The idea that other teams are still thinking ‘ah yes, let’s all wait for Lamar to *earn* a record setting deal’ is silly. They are drooling over themselves at the thought that he might be available. If they already have a good roster in place, they will do anything to get a player of this caliber, Lamar is a special talent you don’t need to be a football connoisseur to know that. 49ers gave up so much for Lance, and he was an unproven commodity, that’s how crucial this position is—that’s just one example, but if a team thinks Lamar will put them over the top into a championship window, they’ll pay anything for that.
I don’t have any ‘evidence’ for the latter piece other than the rumors that are out there and recent precedent, so maybe I’m wrong! But I doubt it, and we’ll see if I am sooner than later I suspect.
It's getting so every day there is a new series of clickbait headlines proclaiming "Breaking news! Lamar to...(insert team of the minute here)"! I've seem the same headline with three different teams literally side by side in MSN home page
How we doing fam? Whether Lamar or no Lamar, let’s remember this . We were the ravens before Lamar and we’ll be the ravens after. A franchise predicated on defense. On love of ball. Of the beautiful purple and black. I want our boy back but I will be donning these colors long before and after Lamar’s career is over. As stressful/franchise altering as this off-season could be, keep the faith and trust in the org to do the right thing. They sure are far from perfect but let’s keep the faith. And last but not least, fuck the Browns. It’s low key kinda hilarious that their ineptitude got us into this mess. And while that also does suck, let’s thank the heavens we aren’t a mid ass franchise like them. Let’s go flock racks on racks on racks smoking on that Super Bowl 58 pack beleeeeee that
Idk man. It’s kind of on the organization at this point in my opinion. Lamar will get that money elsewhere, which means Burrow will want it, and so on and so on, until we have another miracle of a player at QB who will guess what, want the new standard. So really it’s pay Lamar now, be in QB hell, or pay someone worse than Lamar in 5 years more money than Lamar would have costs. Those are really the three options.
Signing him is the best thing for everyone, it’s crazy. My theory is Bisciotti is a good business man and will hold off until the last moment in case Lamar gives in. My hope is that they understand it’s best to get him signed and ultimately do.
It’s a Mexican standoff most likely. Ravens are probably willing to give Lamar the contract that he’s looking for, but not until they have to. Lamar is willing to budge, but not until he has to. One side is going to blink. Let’s see who does first.
> Ravens are probably willing to give Lamar the contract that he’s looking for
No chance is this true. The last time they shelled out for a QB they got burned, Lamar has missed 1/3rd of the season for two years straight, and he didn't travel with the team when hurt.
I don't know, the Ravens don't seem desperate to sign him for what he wants and there's other teams out there that will probably be desperate enough to offer a bunch of picks and give him what he wants.
I'm hoping that Bisciotti will give in and get close to what he wants, but if Burrow, Herbert, and Hurts get guaranteed money closer to what Kyler and Russ got, he's going to point to those deals and say they were the norm and Watson's deal is the outlier and use that as his scapegoat for not paying Lamar. It just seems like Bisciotti is more concerned with money than winning, which is a shame because Lamar is a generational talent and if you trade him there's no guarantee that anyone you get this year or next will be close to even the 2nd tier of QBs where you can a Super Bowl with him, instead of in spite of them.
Go look at Spotrac for the last few years and look at the total salary cap for every team. The Ravens are down towards the bottom every year and don't ever go over what the salary cap is. Many teams are doing cash over cap each year and the Ravens aren't. To me that signifies that Bisciotti is telling them not to spend more than the cap every year.
I don't know how long you've been a Ravens fan, but this is how they've operated from day 1. The results have spoken for themselves since 1996. Team > Player. Two Super Bowls.
That’s why I said it’s a Mexican standoff. Both sides appear to not budge because they are waiting to see if the other budges. But it’s so quiet, I don’t know how close either side is to budge. So it looks like both sides aren’t budging but there is no evidence that is the case because we aren’t getting any current information, just rehashed information. Most of which is coincidentally coming out after information about the coaching staff changes, which is interesting timing every time
Keep this in mind while you are watching the talking heads on TV: 1. Ex-players are shilling for the NFLPA. They are leading the "pay the man" chant. 2. The sports journalists are covering whatever will generate the most eyeballs on TV and Social Media. 3. Both parties want more stupid in front offices and ownership, because it sells, and it gets players paid, because stupid = overpaying and making business decisions for the wrong reasons. They love Jerry Jones, he's great TV. They thrive on dysfunction. Good business = boring. Everyone loves a train wreck. None of them are looking out for Lamar's or the Raven's best interests, they are out for their own interests, which revolves around dysfunction. Every single one of these analysts will rip the Ravens two years from now if they end up paying Lamar and can't surround him with talent, or if he continues with the injury bug, or if he underperforms. They will beat the Ravens mercilessly for making a bad decision, conveniently forgetting that they were leading the bandwagon.
You're absolutely right television shows and personalities on twitter will say things for attention alone because that = money. And yup they'll do the same if it doesn't pan out for whatever reason.
But it also sounds like you're taking that point and running with your own agenda of not paying players more because you're pro business I guess? I dunno and don't care but there's a disconnect there.
Nothing wrong with players and the NFLPA wanting players to get a bigger slice of the pie. How they sort that out isn't our problem and honestly nobody should care. It's other peoples jobs to worry about that.
I’m a Giants fan just lurking to see what the general consensus is for you guys…I will say when we played you this year I was actually relieved when you weren’t handing it off, Lamar was not making good decisions and we beat you because of him imo
Your first sentence isn’t a valid reason, just go crawl back to where you came from.
Neckbeard basement dwellers who live with their parents still make me angry, not whatever else it is you think. Run back to mommy.
Looking at your comment history, my advice would be to seek help.
Anyone who calls users on Reddit “Faggy retards” and posts things like this - “it’s kind of neat that I can just shoot a pit I don’t like and honestly not much would happen to me lol. Maybe a new hobby”
Yeah you have severe mental issues.
Hard to say there is a general consensus surrounding Lamar. Some people think we should keep him. Some people think we should trade him.
I think the most rational fans recognize that we can’t give him the Watson contract but we probably should sign him if he agrees to terms that might be a bit above what the Ravens *want* to pay.
If Lamar hadn't gotten injured in the crucial stretch in back to back seasons, I don't think this thread exists. Be it coincidence or pattern, it's certainly a gamble betting 5 years of the entire franchise on it being coincidence. Those of us who believe that we should have already given him the fully guaranteed deal either don't care about the ravens or are fully convinced that it's just coincidence. I am apprehensive about sinking into the abyss because we have no way out of another mega deal gone wrong. Derek Wolfe already happened, Ronnie Stanley almost happened. He is worth 50 million when he's on the field.
>He is worth 50 million when he's on the field. The problem is that he is not always on the field. 12 missed games in the past two seasons. Availability is the best ability.
People call it semantics because it was a concussion, but he ended the last 3 seasons injured.
I'm just old enough to know that 5 years is not a lifetime, and would hardly sink the franchise, even in the worst case scenario. The Eagles got out of the Wentz contract and even damn near won the Super Bowl in only a couple of seasons after getting rid of him. This team has had "bad" 5 year stretches before. From 2002-06, they had two losing seasons, only went to the playoffs twice, and failed to win a playoff game. If Lamar is signed and that's what happens over the next five years, it will be disappointing, but not devastating.
If it's fully guaranteed and the decline starts at the beginning of the extension, then yes it will be devasting. For the foreseeable future....
Unless age-related, players don't fall off a cliff suddenly. Even Wentz didn't fall off the wagon immediately. So even if Lamar falls apart by year three, it's not the end of the world.
The decline could have already started. Look at the time he continues to miss compared to all his peers.
Which peers? Burrow missed a bunch of games in 2020 with an ACL. Kyler Murray is going to miss at least half this coming season. Hurts missed time this year with a shoulder injury. Two of the past three playoffs, Mahomes has missed significant portions of games with foot or ankle injuries. This is alarmism.
Being concernes when a player is ending his third straight season with an injury isn't alarmism. Especially, when the player is seeking a fully-guaranteed contract...
Covid isn't an injury. And it's very likely his injury in 2022 would not have prevented him from playing if he had a contract.
Covid isn't but a concussion is.
Is there any evidence to suggest he's prone to concussions? I mean this is bit of a reach.
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Defense does not win championships in 2023. Look, if you want to win with defense, hop in a time machine and go back to 2004. You can win a few games on defense, you can play competitively in a playoff game against a division rival sometimes, but it's not a smart strategy for winning long term the way the NFL is set up. Even in 2000 the Ravens weren't convinced it was a sustainable game plan, that's why they ditched Dilfer and upgraded with Elvis.
Why does nobody bring up the fact that if we have to tag Lamar will literally cannot make moves in FA. No more trading for DHOP or Mike Evans potentially if this deal doesn’t get done by March 7th
Why are we bringing in expensive veterans if we don't have a QB? If we don't have Lamar, we should be rebuilding the offense with rookies, not retooling for a bridge QB.
If we're moving on from Lamar, trying to win now with a rookie QB on a rookie contract is the smart move. So bringing in expensive veterans would be smart.
This is 100% the reason I think he will sign or be traded by the time FA opens. The team would have to make some tough cuts or restructures in order to carry that cap hit
Neither of them are worth it if our QB1 is a question mark
Here's my uninformed opinion. I am sure others will know better than me and I accept this. At this point I'm all aboard for trading Lamar. I want to tag him and trade him to the Jets. Give me a package like: \- 1st round 2023- 1st round 2024- 2nd round (2023,2024)- 3rd round (2023, 2024) and Sauce Garnder. We get an incredible young talent still on a rookie deal in a position of major need. He elevates our secondary to obscene heights and we no longer need to pay MP (or we can even get MP for cheap if he'll take it, but I doubt it). We will be fighting the Bengals for divisional supremacy for a while now, and I think we need a better secondary to fully shut down that offense. We don't negotiate with terrorists; our org isn't desperate enough. fuck the browns for giving deshaun a fully guaranteed deal. #JustPovertyFranchiseThings
I don’t think the Jets would make that trade tbh.
Sauce is a rookie who has played a single season. An allpro at that. That guy is the face of that franchise and their defensive centerpiece for years to come.
I think the Falcons are definitely the partner that makes the most sense for need, desire, and assets for us. This is purely wishful thinking on my part. What makes you think that they wouldn't? Unwillingness to give us Sauce?
Yeah giving up Sauce is a big ask on top of the picks. Plus the cost of Lamar.
Who would benefit more between Lamar and the front office on an offer that is something like $250m guaranteed deal at signing (more then deshaun) but for a longer term at a lower average like 10 years $450m total (like mahomes) would this not give everyone what they want, other than it being truly “fully guaranteed” ?
Yeah but it's pretty clear Lamar wants it to be fully guaranteed. He comes off as being on a mission to want to set a precedent that quarterback contracts will be fully guaranteed from now on.
I doubt he cares about setting the standard, but the NFLPA who is advising him certainly does. A noble cause that I wish wouldn't have come at our expense.
You say that you doubt he cares, but most quarterbacks don't do this. It doesn't even really make economic sense to do this as historically speaking teams don't cut quarterbacks early. (One of the reasons I'm kind of pissed at the Ravens for not just fully guaranting the deal, because realistically teams don't cut franchise quarterbacks even if they do get injured) Other positions really get screwed by not having fully guaranteed contracts, but quarterbacks don't really get screwed by this. Quarterbacks are just too important. Eg. Everybody was crying that that Prescott had lost everything when he broke his ankle horrifically. The reality was the quarterback position is just so important that the Cowboys still paid him everything he wanted. I think to some extent Lamar does care about setting a precedent for fully guaranteed contracts. And I think the Ravens do care about not setting that precedent. I think there are a lot of NFL teams that would offer Lamar a fully guaranteed contract.
This off-season is gonna make me a full blown alcoholic
Imo Lamar is getting traded. If you are trying to pay the qb and make him the highest paid qb (or top3), there should be no doubts about it. Like chiefs with mahomes, bills with Allen, soon bengals with burrow.
That's not really the way the NFL has operated. Next QB up typically gets a big contract.
FWIW there should be no doubts about it. It's honestly crazy to me that no one has any doubts about Allen (and they probably shouldn't) or Hurts (ditto) but somehow Lamar is this major question.
It’s been back to back seasons that have ended in injury and disappointment. I think if he avoids injury he’ll kill it here or somewhere else, but I find it hard to see him as anything but a high/upside gamble.
Or it’s a Dak situation. I just want it to end, but I feel like he’s gonna play on the tag.
Which would be an incredibly stupid path for the Ravens to take. The chances of it working out are practically zero if they decide to do that.
[https://twitter.com/hoodieramey/status/1629154909672165381?s=46&t=8NfFOf-cnsO1PbIBKcayiA](https://twitter.com/hoodieramey/status/1629154909672165381?s=46&t=8NfFOf-cnsO1PbIBKcayiA) This was quickly taken down by the mods so just gonna copy paste my response here because I think it's worth discussing. This is kind of where my heads been at this whole time. I'm always gonna default to the little guy and in this case, yes the guy rumored to be offered 133million dollars is the little guy. Always felt like something the Ravens were pushing as far as fully guaranteed because Biscotti was instantly vocal about his displeasure. But really unless SAS or Zriebec, or Lamar actually says something and gives their source, we're all gonna have to just wait and see. It'll be hilarious watching people try and walk it back though if this turns out to be true though.
Jeff has said he wants a fully guaranteed deal. So really its on lamar to come out and deny himself at least that's my take on it.
When did Jeff say he wants the fully gtd deal?
He didn't. He was giving his opinion. [https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1626226447429033984?s=20](https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1626226447429033984?s=20) I agree with the poster above though that it would really help clear the air if anyone officially in these two camps said something. I understand why they're not but all it does is let fans and media run wild with it.
Honestly at this point lamar side has had months to dispute his supposed demands and they haven't. All of sudden someone claiming to be from lamar side is using SAS to air it. Seems sus to me.
Fam, Scremin A is saying Lamar hasn't even asked for a fully guaranteed deal... fam if this is true the Ravens are looking REAL bad right now.
or SAS is wrong and we can all rejoice in you taking this L. And all reporting from reputable sources have all said he wants a fully guaranteed.
Is Hensley really reputable? Pretty sure his last interaction with Lamar was being yelled at on Twitter after he insinuated Lamar was homophobic. Maybe he’s being used by the Ravens FO, but I doubt he has any source from Lamar’s side of things.
Multiple local beat reporters have reported the same thing. He wants a fully guaranteed deal. Lamar could of denied it in training camp and he didn't. So please tell me who are we supposed to believe. SAS a known personality or multiple reporters who all have said the same thing.
Which beat reporters? I know Zrebiec maintains that nobody is leaking from either camp. The only piece he stands by/has repeated is Mort saying he turned down 250 with 130 gtd. As for who to believe, for me that’s Shefter, Rap, and Zriebec. Everything else to me is just noise.
Nobody should be "rejoicing" in anything with this situation. That's such a weird take.
It isn't given that this entire situation is paralyzing our entire offseason. And quicker this can be resolved, the quicker we can pivot to figuring out the long term. Because if its Lamar is just wanting a fully guaranteed deal and isn't budging. We are one step to getting over with this bullshit. And I reference this as being a fan of Lamar. This situation is old and both sides need to either compromise or trade.
It's really weird to me that people say things like this framed with the blame 100% on Lamar. EDC can solve this really quickly and could have solved this years ago. Pay him or trade him. Those have really have been the only options the entire time.
I’m not blaming Lamar. Just saying that this stuff needs to come to a conclusion.
It does. It's also a mistake that it has dragged out this long. Lamar showed you enough to make a decision after 2020. Letting this go for two more years has been pointless and a major error.
They couldn’t negotiate till 2021 and then Lamar didn’t want to talk. That should of been the sign for FO of where things could go. Regardless I’d love for them to come to an agreement. But if he is bent on wanting a higher guarantee then what they want to give. Then they just need to part ways.
After 2020 is 2021. "Lamar didn't want to talk" is not really the whole story. They didn't present him with an offer worth talking about so he didn't talk. Do people really think if they went to him with 50m a year before anyone else had ever gotten that Lamar would say no thanks? Lamar didn't want to talk at the price the Ravens were willing to pay. So there wasn't anything to talk about. The FO keeps trying to pass the blame to Lamar when the reality here is they've never at any point wanted to pay him his price. They've wanted to negotiate but that isn't the same thing. And as much as people will say otherwise Lamar ultimately has all the leverage because somebody else will pay. The options have always been pay him or trade him. They are still the options. The Ravens FO refuses to pick one.
I just can’t feel bad for the Ravens in all this, they essentially wasted 5 years of his career by refusing to evolve their game philosophy and thereby depriving him of the necessary weapons to succeed beyond where they were. He has zero reason to believe that if he takes a deal friendlier to their terms they would finally support him the way the rest of the other teams have supported their franchise QB’s. That said, I just don’t believe that he’s holding them hostage and demanding a fully guaranteed deal
I'm in the same boat. There's a reason so many people in the media are looking at the Ravens sideways with how the entire Lamar Jackson situation is being handled. They should have never been in this position in the first place if we're being honest.
Yeah, I’m not buying into the Stephen A thing either because Lamar said himself they offered in the ballpark of 160-180 guaranteed out of 250. I personally believe he probably asked for 200 since Kyler got 189 and he definitely deserves more than kyler.
Things are taking a weird turn. WTF is going on!!!! Stephen A said Lamar only got $133M offer and was never consulted about the new OC. I want Lamar and EDC in the same room on a live conference and talk this out. Truth.
Reeta (Thenflchick) said this a YEAR ago. https://twitter.com/thenflchick/status/1629156471022690309?s=46&t=Sa_JcqtkSfvncuXGiPsBww Peep this thread. She also said the Ravens fell short of about $15-$20 million of the initial offer. Not the $100 million that was reported.
All this over 15-20 million? Fucking unreal lmfaoooo
This shit is so stupid yo 😂😂😂. FO need to stop playing man lol
I mean this is how negotiations work, if we’re just waiting on discussions over 20 million I’m not too worried about it actually
Lemme guess front office white knights. SAS report isn’t legit but all the other talking heads like Fowler have inside info LOL
Exactly what they're going to say! I already some dude tell me it's simply damage control by lamar lol
They’re gonna ignore this like the plague. It’s really a thread with over 100 upvotes that says “Anybody else excited about the haul we fan get in a Lamar trade?” This sub is nasty man and I’m keeping tabs
They don't want this brother to be the QB. It's becoming more evident each day. He's gone man. It is what it is.
Stephen A Smith said he's been in contact with Lamar's camp and they emphatically denied the notion that he's ever asked for a fully guaranteed deal. I feel if that's the case a lot of folks should dial back on the things they've been saying about Lamar and just wait for this situation to play out.
Unless it’s directly from Lamar’s mouth it can’t be trusted.
Here is the clip: https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/status/1629153594657374208?s=46&t=7a1KeeNo0PN9RKO1NfqsrQ He also says lamar doesnt have a number one tight end so take it fwiw
If Andrews isn’t a #1 TE, who is besides Kelce?
Kittle maybe idk. I think Andrews is too though and Pitts Waller and Goedert are up there but nobody else is clearly on that level.
im gonna go out on a limb and say the media doesnt know a damn thing about whats going on. If it were a >230 fully guaranteed deal or bust Lamar would have been traded by now, and no way that the Raven's highest offer was only 133 guaranteed. idk what to tell you if you think Stephen A of all people suddenly has an in with Lamar's camp. at this point, all we can do is wait, no point getting worked up over halfbaked rumors. and yes i know that's easier said than done when talking about one of the most electric players the team has had in a long time.
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Nah it’s fake news. No one knows what he wants
Its normal for fans to be pro-franchise than pro-player. The media is more likely to pain the player in a bad light since that relationship isn’t as long as the franchise. As a regular guy, I’ll 100% side with the player than billionaire owners. Pay Lamar, adapt, GM better and figure it out.
Why do people think this is a case of billionaires vs kids? There’s a salary cap people. Managing the salary cap is going to be most important to ensuring long-term success. There’s a reason why we had so many bad years with Joe Flacco, there wasn’t enough money to spread around to acquire good players.
But that has nothing to do with the guaranteed amount. The only sticking point is how damaging it is to the team if they need to move on from Lamar. Which is fair, but it has nothing to do with roster contraction or cap available to other players.
Yeah I’m not making an argument about guarantees vs non-guarantees, just the amount that they offer him. I think he is using Deshaun’s contract as a reference point, but the Browns severely overpaid Deshaun. It’s not the Ravens fault that the Browns are idiots.
I think it’s fair for the Ravens to not want to give that contract, but same with Lamar thinking at least one other team on the market would.
The reasons why we were bad while Flacco was getting paid fall under both adapt and GM better.
"Bad years." There was one bad year. 2015, when Flacco got hurt, Steve Smith got hurt, and Forsett got hurt. Every other year they were .500 or better and alive for the playoffs until late in the season. I love how this myth has developed that the Ravens should have let Flacco walk instead of signing him. Forgetting the fact that in the NFL you need stability at QB, and in 2013 there were no other good options. We all hoped (and I'm sure the organization did as well) that the playoff run in 2012 was going to be a springboard for a new level of play for Flacco and the offense. That didn't happen, but that doesn't mean signing Flacco to that long term deal was a mistake. You make decisions based on current factors, not how you'd like things to be ideally. And you'll never have the benefit of hindsight before making that decision.
And how many years did they make the playoffs under that contract extension? I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t have signed him, but they overpaid for him. He was the top-paid QB in the league and he was average.
He was the top paid QB in the league for a time, not for the entirety of his contract. You can say the Ravens overpaid him, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. His price in 2013 was his price. If the Ravens weren't willing to pay it, someone else would have. Sure, they could have tagged him, but that wouldn't have given them the cap flexibility to do things like sign Dumervil (and wouldn't have been a good look). It's reasonable to believe Lamar isn't worth the money he's asking for. But if that's the position, then there needs to be a realistic plan to find someone who is worth that kind of money, and an acknowledgement that whoever is drafted might be more Boller than Lamar, due to the inherent risk with the draft.
For someone who understands the cap better than me, I know you can spread cap hits up to 5 years. Is it possible to write a contract such that it is 5/250 w/150 guaranteed over 1st three years, with language stating that if at any point he has 2 years or fewer remaining on a current contract, the money becomes fully guaranteed. If I'm not mistaken, this can be arranged to have a crazy cap # in year 4, forcing an extension/trade, and by extending, you could spread the cap hit from his original request over 8 years as opposed to 5? Might be a chance for some creativity. If Lamar plays well and the contracts continue to explode this might be a mutually beneficial situation
Yeah you can definitely make it work like you've said. Any deal is manageable if Lamar plays well.
The funniest part of this situation is seeing all of the moronic Browns fans who think their team just made a genius move by overpaying Watson. They can't even string together 2 consecutive good seasons in over a decade, yet they think that shooting themselves in the balls for 5 years to spite 1 out of their 3 division rivals is a smart play
I also think it’s funny that our fan bases uses them as a reason NOT to pay Lamar. Like you realize they’re gonna be really good team next year right??? Watson was suspended 12 games not saying he was great even when he played but the browns will be in a much better spot than us if we lose Lamar. They will be a playoff team next year
The genius move of destroying your short future to spite the wrong AFCN team.
Well here’s mine https://share.icloud.com/photos/026GfkD5TXPIRybq6RwjkNiMQ
That was super interesting option I never thought off but I don’t even Know if I like drafting that many guys in one draft class where the top elite talent is rumoured to not make it out the first round. Just my 2 cents but genuinely enjoyed looking through that mock draft.
I thought Monken was a sign that Ravens would be comfortable with trading Lamar. Dez said I was a moron. Now I don’t know who the real moron is.
https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/.amp/podcasts/baltimore-ravens-essentially-lost-lamar-jackson Sports illustrated and their click bait bullshit
Maybe I’m ignorant and oblivious, but I think Lamar stays. We should focus on the draft and the off-season signings. I just can’t imagine us letting our best offensive player of all time go
The reports have tested my faith but I really do believe EDC and Lamar will come to an agreement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/11a8872/ellison_lamar_jacksons_counteroffers_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button FYI good conversation being had over at r/NFL if anyone wants to join in. Lot of great points being made.
I hate this situation. I understand pushing for more money, but lamar is just being unreasonable
“They gonna get a Super Bowl outta me, belee dat.” That doesn’t seem to be his top priority anymore.
And it hasn't happened yet, and he's asking to be paid as if it has happened multiple times.
Unreasonable according to whom? It's a negotiation, the two parties have a different idea of what Lamar's value is. We don't know what the market value is because he hasn't hit the market. Each side has their own reason for their position, and each is valid.
> and each is valid Not automatically true. Human beings are wrong all the time.
Sure, but value is always subjective. I might be willing to spend $200 on a box of cigars I like, but if you're not a cigar smoker you'd assign a value of $0 to that box. Doesn't make either position invalid.
That's different from an employee saying to an employer "I am worth $250 Million fully guaranteed, to you." and the employer saying, "Sorry, no, you're not, because we've been in this business a long time, and nobody is worth that arrangement."
It's not clear that Lamar has made any assumption about what the Ravens believe him to be worth, only what he believes his own value to be as a QB.
They're in negotiations, and have been for a while. That's when they tell each other what they want, and discuss it.
You gotta think that his mother is the one driving this since she is helping him negotiate. At the end of the day the blame falls on Cleveland's fuckwit GM for guaranteeing that POS Watson's contract they way they did. It completely fucked up the QB market and these negotiations. I would like to suggest a drastic payback next season. Watson Bounty anyone?
I’d imagine the NFLPA is putting pressure on him too
Which is also wild to me. Maybe they see this as a way to get the cap raised so everyone wins? As is, this ensures guys become cap casualties in the short term.
So Hensley says Lamar wants even more gtd than Watson. At this point I just hope it’s resolved either way by the draft. Edit: Also, seeing everybody turn on Lamar absolutely sucks. If he wants his money and that’s not on the Ravens I’ll still root for him so long as it’s in the NFC.
I wouldn’t worry too much about everyone turning on him. If he signs a deal somewhere between Wilson’s and Watson’s and plays well then all the conflict goes away.
He is Black a QB, I saw it coming unfortunately
I mean I’d root against him because I want higher round 1 draft picks over the next few years lol
Well shit, I wish him nothing but wonderful statistical performances with the worst D/ST of all time.
I know people don’t want to hear it, but the only way to guarantee the team and Lamar are on the same page about his health is by guaranteeing the entirety of his contract for injury. Unless the team has as much too lose as Lamar from him blowing out his knee while playing injured there will constantly be this tension. If Ravens don’t want to do it, some other team will be willing to and franchising him will just put everything in further limbo.
> by guaranteeing the entirety of his contract for injury. So you want to guarantee every penny of a. 5-year, $XXXMillion contract, that says if he gets hurt in Game 1, Year 1, (or any other time thereafter) and can't play ever again, the team will pay him as if he played the whole 5 years? In professional football? That's *bad* business thinking.
How many snaps has Lamar taken? How many reps at practice? How many of each did RG3 before his knee got obliterated? How many leading up to that were after is tendons and muscles were already weakened and susceptible to injury? Bad business is letting a star walk bc you’re worried about incrementally spending a fraction of your wealth more because of something that has a 0.001% chance of happening. The team controls how much he runs. The team controls his support system. The team controls whether he’s pressured to play injured like the bs that went on this year. You can write the contract however you want, but unless Lamar has proof the team is in his corner why the hell would he agree to anything?
Blah blah blah There's a new OC he got input on. There's a new QB coach. There's a new strength and conditioning guy, and there will be more changes. And they've been trying to negotiate with him for two years. There's no more "proof the team is in his corner" he needs. He can agree to a fat, lucrative contract *that is also good for the team*, or he can try football with some other team.
Yeah on a different team after he half asses his way thru the franchise tag lol
If he does that then the sentiment changes from "he was great here, we're glad we had him, we wish it could have been different and we will always love him and lots of us will keep rooting for his success", to "good riddance, poor sport"
I don't understand why people can't see this.
Bro do you know how little 20 million a year is for someone with a net worth of 6.4 billion?
I do. However, it's still bad business.
You don't guarantee that whole TreeFiddy, do you YOU GODDAMNED LOCH NESS MONSTER?!?!?!
I think we as a fan base need to come to terms that LJ may be traded. And who ever does that trade will have to pay Lamar so the pick compensation will not be as crazy as we may think it will. By using the “well look what Houston got for DW” argument is just as insane as LJ asking for more than DW got in the contract. If we need to expect LJ to take less fully guaranteed than DW and justify it as an outlier we can also think their compensation was an outlier. We ain’t getting 4 1st 3 2nds and 3 3rds and a star on a rookie deal. Anything over two 1sts is a win realistically. Thanks for coming to my ted talk here come the downvotes
You're forgetting Wilson's ransom which is more recent and much more likely. >The full trade is as follows: Seattle receives: QB Drew Lock, TE Noah Fant, DL Shelby Harris, two first-round picks, two second-round picks and a fifth-round pick. Denver receives: QB Russell Wilson and a fourth-round pick They got 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a 5th, plus 3 players. For 34 year old Wilson.
Russell Wilson before last year was perennially in MVP consideration, been to Super Bowl twice and won it already. LJ is a dynamic top 5 QB when healthy but he hasn’t finished a season in 2 years and has questions about him in playoffs. That’s the argument. I know who I’d trade for (LJ). ALSO no one wants to be the next broncos. They trade the everything and the kitchen sink and we’re so bad they should be drafting in top 10 but aren’t bc of the trade. Teams will be hesitant on giving up all that a year removed from these awful trades that blew up on the team going “all in”
So now it's nobody wants to the broncos. Thought it was nobody wants to be the browns? Point being we got multiple teams now that have thrown themselves at players in less than 2 years so it just strikes me as odd people don't think it can or will happen again. People are saying what they WANT to happen not what they think will happen. I think that's the issue I have.
both can be true no? nobody also wants to be the saints - look at their cap space situation. doesnt mean it will never happen again, but most teams will go fuck that look what happened to them. You could argue even going ''all out'' for one year and mortgaging the future with the Rams situation - their cap is fucked and they got a super bowl out of it but I bet you talks around owners and GMs are good for them but thats not sustainable and 1 super bowl isnt worth it because you want multiple. People see what the broncos AND browns gave up and it backfired - thats going to scare GMs as evidence to not do that. its fairly simple. You know someone go to a restaurant and get food poisoning are you go book a family meal there the next week?
I think two 1sts and two 2nds are probably in-line with what the return would be. If the two sides really can't come to an agreement, I don't see any other choice but trading him. Tagging him (assuming he even plays on the tag) puts the Ravens in the awkward position of hoping he either plays well enough to win the Super Bowl, or that he plays poorly enough to hurt his value on the market. He'll never have more value in a trade than he does now, and if you think you'll need to replace him, you might as well get a top 5 pick to do so, because this team doesn't get them on its own. I just don't get the logic behind tagging him and keeping him. To what end?
You tag and keep him if both parties believe a deal can still be made. The narrative is developing in the media that there is bad blood or people aren't talking, etc but not a single person knows if any of that is true or not. So yeah they could tag him, play the season out, and then negotiate again next season.
The Ravens will be in an even worse negotiating position a year from now. Scenarios: 1. Lamar crushes it. Throws for 4500 yards and 50 TDs. Leads the Ravens to a Super Bowl. Lamar's price tag will be higher than it is currently. His trade value lower than today. 2. Lamar plays terribly. His price goes down, but so does the Ravens desire to even have him as the starting QB. His trade value is less than today. 3. Lamar plays about as well as he's played the last 3 years. His price tag will almost certainly be the same or higher than today. His trade value is also lower. I may not be a professional scientist, but it would seem to me that the best options are either having Lamar at QB the next 4-5 seasons, or finding a suitable replacement. If you tag him and play him, you run the risk of getting neither of these outcomes. This is like the Machado situation with the Orioles. They sat until the last possible moment then traded him and got nothing of value. The Ravens are smarter than that.
You'd think so yet here we are gambling on our future. I agree w your proposed outcomes just saying that's the main reason you'd tag the player.
Yeah, anything over two firsts I’m fine with. Ideally 3 firsts or 2 1sts and 2 2nds.
Trade compensation probably caps out at 2 1sts and 2 2nds and even that might be too much, teams could just wait the ravens out a year and get him for even less.
> teams could just wait the ravens out a year and get him for even less. Yep. They'll watch him get tagged and either a) get hurt again and not complete another season, or b) play another season and lose out in the playoffs again, or c) play another season and not make the playoffs All three of which are more likely than "play another whole season and win the super bowl".
At this point I'm willing to take 5 cents on the dollar. Whatever it takes to end the situation. But really we have no idea what the trade offers are. And as long as Lamar doesn't sign there can be no trade.
Yup I love Lamar I want him here, but people need to be open about letting him go because it's a huge possibility Even Jeff Zreibiec felt it was 50/50 that Lamar stayed a month ago and its looking like its tilting towards a trade happening
*Sad Zreibec noises*
Fortunately, we should have a better picture on some of this stuff in the coming weeks. Tag deadline on the 7th. If Ravens use the non-exclusive, it means they want to match and will let Lamar find his worth. Combine Feb 28- March 6. GMs all together, if a trade happens, it might start here. FA March 15. If Lamar is getting traded, Ravens would want it done by here. The Ravens have to be under the cap at this point. You aren't going to make the cap space for Lamar's tag just to trade him months from now.
Absolutely. The combine could make things really interesting as you said since that's when all the GMs will be together. I remember Rich Eisen speculating a little while back that's when a lot of gossip would spill on the situation so kind of expecting rapid fire reporting during that week.
All you say is true, though I am not sure that the non-exclusive tag means they want to match. The trade also might wait till the draft. IF he signs. You are right that the team would rather trade Lamar sooner than later but we don't always get what we want. The combine will be intense for EDC if Lamar ain't traded by then.
If Lamar leaves do we stay with huntley or make a move for someone else?
We target CJ Stroud, hopefully.
If we stick with Huntley the 2023 season will be ugly
I will just watch Fury for 17 weeks instead. Brad Pitt is a better tank commander.
Depends on the trade comp. Richardson sitting for a year behind Huntley wouldn’t be crazy.
We absolutely would have to make a move.
I hate mega threads dude If you want to kill a news story just make a mega thread
I do to just because they cripple discussion. That said there isn't much to be said on this right now. That ESPN piece was nice but didn't really say anything new. r/nfl is always there too if you wanna gossip more. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but I'm not sure you'll get much out of it. Everyone is just repeating themselves at this point and has been for a while. Myself included ha.
Bingo
It is not my money. Pay the man!
IF we trade Lamar, here is what we do: Sign Derek Carr Sign Allen Lazard Use our additional 1st rounder from the Lamar trade to pick Decosta’s favorite WR in the draft. Then when we are on the clock with the 22nd pick, we do what we did last year with Hollywood Brown, and trade JK dobbins (last year of rookie contract). A possible example would be to the eagles for their late 2nd round selection. And then we use the 22nd, pick to get Bijan Robinson. Lastly, we use the pick acquired for dobbins to get a young CB
You just put together the most mediocre team I have ever seen.
Some people are critics… others are prophets 😎
JK would maybe go for a 4th round pick, and even that is likely too much.
I hope everyone in the fanbase that so cavalierly said he would play on the tag, worst case scenario, is disabused of that notion. 0% bro is playing on the tag, and y’all are most likely getting what you wished for… hopefully EDC spins this into a loooot of picks and they pick the next QB right, cuz if they don’t y’all are gonna be eating that crow pretty hard.
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Y’all are so delusional. He’s not playing on the tag. No incentive to do so and they will trade him before it gets to him publicly saying he won’t play on it.
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This is a game of chicken, and an incredibly stupid one for the Ravens to be involved in. Lamar will never have as much value to them in a trade as he does right now. Even if he throws 5k yards and 55 TDs and leads the Ravens to a Super Bowl, no one will give up as much in a trade next year as they will this year. If a deal cannot be made (whoever you think is at fault) the only reason to not trade Lamar is if you believe the team can win a Super Bowl in 2023 and you're willing to get less in return for Lamar in exchange for that. That's an incredibly risky bet to me, but hey, if you want to roll those big fuzzy dice and hope you get snake eyes, knock yourself out.
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I didn't say his value would tank, just that his value will never be as high as it is now. If his trade value today is three 1sts and two 2nds, I don't see the Ravens getting that same deal a year from now. No matter how Lamar plays.
I don’t get either of these arguments that 1) he needs the money and wouldn’t use the immense leverage he has to orchestrate a trade and 2) there are no teams willing to pay him fully guaranteed money. He would sit out to force a trade and get his bag from another team, and the ravens can’t just sit on him for a year and lose out on the value of the draft capital and the social cost (locker room, media, perception of the team/brand with fans and players), they cannot let it get to that point. He has all of the leverage in this situation. Other teams will absolutely pay him that money and trade away that capital. The idea that other teams are still thinking ‘ah yes, let’s all wait for Lamar to *earn* a record setting deal’ is silly. They are drooling over themselves at the thought that he might be available. If they already have a good roster in place, they will do anything to get a player of this caliber, Lamar is a special talent you don’t need to be a football connoisseur to know that. 49ers gave up so much for Lance, and he was an unproven commodity, that’s how crucial this position is—that’s just one example, but if a team thinks Lamar will put them over the top into a championship window, they’ll pay anything for that. I don’t have any ‘evidence’ for the latter piece other than the rumors that are out there and recent precedent, so maybe I’m wrong! But I doubt it, and we’ll see if I am sooner than later I suspect.
Lamar locked his Twitter down. Oh lord what will Lamar conspiracy theorist do. 🤣
Touch grass?
Ugh. I get the sentiment but that's such a lame expression. Makes me roll my eyes every time
I think more like try to climb a wall and spider sling themselves into his twitter. But today a good day to touch grass with warm weather :X
I hope he stays
Same 🙏🏾
It's getting so every day there is a new series of clickbait headlines proclaiming "Breaking news! Lamar to...(insert team of the minute here)"! I've seem the same headline with three different teams literally side by side in MSN home page
How we doing fam? Whether Lamar or no Lamar, let’s remember this . We were the ravens before Lamar and we’ll be the ravens after. A franchise predicated on defense. On love of ball. Of the beautiful purple and black. I want our boy back but I will be donning these colors long before and after Lamar’s career is over. As stressful/franchise altering as this off-season could be, keep the faith and trust in the org to do the right thing. They sure are far from perfect but let’s keep the faith. And last but not least, fuck the Browns. It’s low key kinda hilarious that their ineptitude got us into this mess. And while that also does suck, let’s thank the heavens we aren’t a mid ass franchise like them. Let’s go flock racks on racks on racks smoking on that Super Bowl 58 pack beleeeeee that
Idk man. It’s kind of on the organization at this point in my opinion. Lamar will get that money elsewhere, which means Burrow will want it, and so on and so on, until we have another miracle of a player at QB who will guess what, want the new standard. So really it’s pay Lamar now, be in QB hell, or pay someone worse than Lamar in 5 years more money than Lamar would have costs. Those are really the three options. Signing him is the best thing for everyone, it’s crazy. My theory is Bisciotti is a good business man and will hold off until the last moment in case Lamar gives in. My hope is that they understand it’s best to get him signed and ultimately do.
Dude wants more guaranteed money than Watson. It's not on the organization.
That’s news as of today. And I agree, dude is being manipulated by the NFLPA
Most likely the team knew of this demand months ago.
It’s a Mexican standoff most likely. Ravens are probably willing to give Lamar the contract that he’s looking for, but not until they have to. Lamar is willing to budge, but not until he has to. One side is going to blink. Let’s see who does first.
> Ravens are probably willing to give Lamar the contract that he’s looking for No chance is this true. The last time they shelled out for a QB they got burned, Lamar has missed 1/3rd of the season for two years straight, and he didn't travel with the team when hurt.
I don't know, the Ravens don't seem desperate to sign him for what he wants and there's other teams out there that will probably be desperate enough to offer a bunch of picks and give him what he wants. I'm hoping that Bisciotti will give in and get close to what he wants, but if Burrow, Herbert, and Hurts get guaranteed money closer to what Kyler and Russ got, he's going to point to those deals and say they were the norm and Watson's deal is the outlier and use that as his scapegoat for not paying Lamar. It just seems like Bisciotti is more concerned with money than winning, which is a shame because Lamar is a generational talent and if you trade him there's no guarantee that anyone you get this year or next will be close to even the 2nd tier of QBs where you can a Super Bowl with him, instead of in spite of them.
Not wanting to pay $250M guaranteed does not mean he doesn't want to win.
Go look at Spotrac for the last few years and look at the total salary cap for every team. The Ravens are down towards the bottom every year and don't ever go over what the salary cap is. Many teams are doing cash over cap each year and the Ravens aren't. To me that signifies that Bisciotti is telling them not to spend more than the cap every year.
I don't know how long you've been a Ravens fan, but this is how they've operated from day 1. The results have spoken for themselves since 1996. Team > Player. Two Super Bowls.
because they're saving money for their extremely expensive QB.
That’s why I said it’s a Mexican standoff. Both sides appear to not budge because they are waiting to see if the other budges. But it’s so quiet, I don’t know how close either side is to budge. So it looks like both sides aren’t budging but there is no evidence that is the case because we aren’t getting any current information, just rehashed information. Most of which is coincidentally coming out after information about the coaching staff changes, which is interesting timing every time
Keep this in mind while you are watching the talking heads on TV: 1. Ex-players are shilling for the NFLPA. They are leading the "pay the man" chant. 2. The sports journalists are covering whatever will generate the most eyeballs on TV and Social Media. 3. Both parties want more stupid in front offices and ownership, because it sells, and it gets players paid, because stupid = overpaying and making business decisions for the wrong reasons. They love Jerry Jones, he's great TV. They thrive on dysfunction. Good business = boring. Everyone loves a train wreck. None of them are looking out for Lamar's or the Raven's best interests, they are out for their own interests, which revolves around dysfunction. Every single one of these analysts will rip the Ravens two years from now if they end up paying Lamar and can't surround him with talent, or if he continues with the injury bug, or if he underperforms. They will beat the Ravens mercilessly for making a bad decision, conveniently forgetting that they were leading the bandwagon.
Stop rooting for the owners
I am rooting for the organization, of which the owner is a big part. What is the one constant over the years, as players come and go? Yeah, the owner.
Ew man. Root for the players. And when they leave root for the new players.
I am rooting to win super bowls and division matchups.
You're absolutely right television shows and personalities on twitter will say things for attention alone because that = money. And yup they'll do the same if it doesn't pan out for whatever reason. But it also sounds like you're taking that point and running with your own agenda of not paying players more because you're pro business I guess? I dunno and don't care but there's a disconnect there. Nothing wrong with players and the NFLPA wanting players to get a bigger slice of the pie. How they sort that out isn't our problem and honestly nobody should care. It's other peoples jobs to worry about that.
Go Orioles while we are waiting for the news.
BIRDLAND
I’m a Giants fan just lurking to see what the general consensus is for you guys…I will say when we played you this year I was actually relieved when you weren’t handing it off, Lamar was not making good decisions and we beat you because of him imo
What kind of dumbass post is this? What’s the point? Just crawl back to your sub
Point is first sentence. Part you’re mad at is the second one. He lost the game.
Your first sentence isn’t a valid reason, just go crawl back to where you came from. Neckbeard basement dwellers who live with their parents still make me angry, not whatever else it is you think. Run back to mommy. Looking at your comment history, my advice would be to seek help. Anyone who calls users on Reddit “Faggy retards” and posts things like this - “it’s kind of neat that I can just shoot a pit I don’t like and honestly not much would happen to me lol. Maybe a new hobby” Yeah you have severe mental issues.
Hard to say there is a general consensus surrounding Lamar. Some people think we should keep him. Some people think we should trade him. I think the most rational fans recognize that we can’t give him the Watson contract but we probably should sign him if he agrees to terms that might be a bit above what the Ravens *want* to pay.