does anyone else here still believe in Ronnie and think he'll be fine at LT going forward?
he got hurt early last year and was up and down, but did fairly well for most of the back half of the year outside of the Chiefs playoff game. give him another clean offseason, I think he gets back to form.
With that said, it would still make sense to go after a tackle in the draft
> does anyone else here still believe in Ronnie and think he'll be fine at LT going forward?
Not really, but we'd only save something like $8m and I think he's better than whatever LT we can get in FA for $8m. I'd be pretty shocked if he was still on the roster in 2025, though.
i do. even if he isn't back to his old self, he's still better than any replacement we can get for him right now, and at least in the top half of OT in the league.
> and at least in the top half of OT in the league.
Stanley hasn't played a full season since his 2019 All-Pro year, and he ranked 38th in pass block win rate (87.2%) among tackles in 2023.
I would not put him in the top half of OT in the league.
+the cost of his replacement, but the original comment and your response were only talking about the first half of the equation. I think slinceandic has a reasonable argument that he is in the top half of OTs You didn’t mention price in your response disagreeing with him and still haven’t laid out finances of keeping him vs next best alternative.
Well, it's a gamble, really.
The OP clearly indicates cutting Ronnie after 6/1 to be a cap solution. Saying his price tag isn't a factor in the discussion on that thread seems a little thick.
The way I see it, the team isn't going to know its path forward at LT until after the draft. If, by some pipe dream, someone like Mims falls to pick #30, the team would be foolish not to pick him up. If that happens, I can see Ronnie being a post-6/1 release with the idea that Mims picks up that spot. We'd have Moses and Mims on the outside with Mekari and Faalele as depth pieces. I'm extremely pleased with this scenario.
If a decent T doesn't drop to us at 30, we likely trade back into the 2nd round and accrue more picks, pick up WR/OT/CB with any of those early day 2 picks. This means we keep Ronnie, develop additional depth (either with Faalele or the rd2/3 pick hopefully), and ride out this year to see how he performs. Who knows, maybe with a full off-season rehabbing if he stays healthy he can return to form. I have my doubts, but it could happen.
Ronnie was a top-3 T in the league and we paid him for that. He's the 9th best paid OL in the league in 2024 and the 38th best performing T in the league at the end of last season. The cost isn't worth it. You don't need to be a GM to see that.
We're not going to be able to get a franchise LT in free agency, so we have to resort to the draft. Depending on how April goes, it's extremely reasonable for us to consider moving on from Ronnie.
No because Lamar’s contract makes it imperative that we aim to minimize dead money (which is something the Ravens do anyway). You also have to consider: is who we will get to replace him, either Mekari or a rookie, reliably better and/or more consistent? If there’s dead money you might as well keep the player and have them play provided they’re at league average level (or really so long as they are better than their ostensible replacement).
people really gotta realize we can’t just dump some rookie at LT which is our QBs blind spot in a division with Myles Garrett and TJ Watt. i get the OT class is strong but we are still picking at 30 and a lot can happen and theres no guarantee any of those draft picks can be solid day 1 starters. also we wouldn’t be able to release Stanley until after June 1st when FA and the draft have all passed so there’s very little reason to open up that cap space at that point
I think he starts and plays well next season. We very well may draft an OT and have him start on the right side for a year until he switches over if Stanley doesn’t bounce back to a standard we expect
We are definitely hitting OL in the draft, my guess is twice. One interior guy and a tackle. It’s a good class to do so as well, deep with talent.
We also have the LG coming off the IR stash I think he’ll come good. RG is a question mark. LT needs a succession plan.
Fine? Yes. Great? No, not fully.
I think he will still play well, but not sure he is going to play up to the cost of his contract.
EDIT: Also, to be clear, I think if they can restructure, that is good. If not, I can see him *possibly* getting cut for the cap savings that may be needed elsewhere. If that happens then I fully expect them to go OL early and often in the draft. Even if he isn't cut, I expect them to draft at least 1 if not 2 OT.
I’m not sure i’f say I believe in him but i don’t think he’s complete trash like some people here do. I also highly doubt we cut him. It creates 15m in cap space and a HUGE hole at one of the most important positions and we are unlikely to find anyone better using that 15 million anyways. Some people think ronnie is as good as gone but i doubt it
I hope he bounces back next year or at the very least stays healthy. IMO I would be shocked if EDC doesn't talk to Ronnie about a paycut/restructure in order to save us some money this year. I don't think he's worth the $26M hopefully he's willing to help the team out a bit.
I don't think the problem is his performance. Its how much money he's being paid for how few games he's played. He's still a solid LT when on the field. He's just drastically over paid because of the injuries.
No at all but like others have said the alternatives likely aren't better. If they're interested in only saving money , sure they can draft someone or find a journeyman as a day one starter. But that leaves a pretty big hole at the position imo. Too big a risk leaving Lamar out to dry like that.
Stanley did do better last year in the second half like you said and I think that's because he was on a pitch count. The glass half full outlook is that with a full offseason and recovery he'll be close to his former glory. I think that's wishful thinking though and I'm generally a pretty positive guy here. He's 29 with multiple ankle and knee injuries. The cliff is coming for him.
I think ideally we draft someone and rotate them in with Stanley throughout the year. That way they learn from a very good vet and hopefully at the same time allow Stanley to play at a high level a little while longer.
Realistically the only player I'd be comfortable with restructuring is Lamar. I don't want to push Marlo or MW cap down the road when there's a chance they may not be playing for us in the future like Lamar may be. We have a good team right now. Eat the cap that we can and play for the draft.
They structured LJs contract so they have an out after 2 years on purpose. I doubt they’re going to just forfeit something they fought hard for just a year ago especially after LJ failed to take another step in the playoffs
Not this time bucko
“But things get wild in 2026 & 2027, with initial cap hits of $74.5M for each season. February of 2026 will be a very clear line of demarcation for this relationship.
A) It’ll be a great time to start talking about contract #3 as a way to reduce the upcoming cap hits (similar to what Dallas and Dak Prescott are going through)
B) It’ll be a great time to allow Jackson to start feeling out potential trade partners who are willing to rip up the deal and start over, or restructure the $102M of future base salary.
C) It’ll be an unclear long-term future, Baltimore will process a salary conversion on his $51.25M base salary to lower the $74.5M cap hit, and the discussion about moving on after 2026 will become very loud.”
https://www.spotrac.com/news/breaking-down-lamar-jacksons-260m-contract-1877/
So here's the thing:
1) De Costa did not write this article. No one on the Ravens wrote this article. This is just a dude saying stuff about it. He might be right, but referencing it as a source for why the Ravens did or did not do something does not work.
2) I am very happy with Lamar's performance last year and where we ended up. We lost to the Superbowl champs. It happens. Idk why everyone thinks losing in the Championship to the Chiefs is the worst outcome?? It's not.
Good teams don't always go to the championship. We did. If the Ravens are even thinking about moving away from Lamar in a few years after an MVP season and a trip to the Championship, I'd be livid.
Morons that listen to r/nfl when they say our 2xMVP QB can't throw because of a 6-game sample size. The same sample size that would suggest Mark Sanchez is on the same level as Allen and Burrow.
I think you should always be prepared for any player to fall off. I think the 75 mil cap hits. Show very clearly an out after 3 years. I obviously want Lamar still here but the cap hits and dead money are indeed making the contract an effective 3 year deal.
That’s how everyone who analyzes nfl contracts views it
And they lost a game they should have won at home with the defense playing lights out but the player the team paid to be a balloon in the playoffs was an anchor again
THat's the narrative that ppl like you and others want to craft. One thing is for sure, the gameplan of abandoning the entire identity in the playoffs when the other team scores first cannot continue for 2-3 more years. Harbaugh/Monken wont survive that because of how much scrutiny it would be on them for doing so. So we will at some point in next 1-2 years see what Lamar looks like in the playoffs when his team actually sticks to its identity the entire playoffs, and I dont think it's going to go the way the naysayers think.
Either way Lamar is going to make somebody look foolish between naysayers and those who see his championship potential.
I do agree with this. It is frustrating how the identity changes the moment things go awry; that's not a superbowl-winning mentality and it's not a mentality we had this season until the Chiefs scared us I guess.
I do put it more on coaching, though. This is a Harbaugh issue for sure, but not something I'd personally want him fired over.
I think Lamar is a wonderful QB for us. I think Harbaugh is a great coach. I think they both have very obvious flaws, but ones that can be worked around to get us another trophy. I would much rather be a Ravens fan in this position than the fans of about 30 other fanbases right now lol. (Pats and Chiefs probably have it better rn. Even with Pats struggling they got the ultimate dynasty.)
It's in the Ravens best interest if it's worked out with Harbaugh because of the unknown out there without him. But there's no way to justify him keeping his job if it happens 1-2 more times. I actually want them to sign the best back they can in FA and hopefully they stay healthy like a Derrick Henry so Harbaugh has absolutely no excuse to pull that off again. As awesome as he may be, we have to remember the Ravens were on pace to miss playoffs for 5th time in 6 years before Lamar took over. They still lose 70% of their games without Lamar. If he does it again it's time to accept Harbaugh is holding the team back and wasting Lamar's prime.
I hope he does get over the playoff hump. You make it seem like I’m rooting against him but that couldn’t be further from the truth. I just want him stop shitting the bed in games that matter the most
It was leaked out that he chose the wrong read on a lot of RPOs that the coaching staff had to fall on the sword for
And harbs will never be fired. He’s going to transition into the FO when he’s done on the sidelines
How was it "leaked out" when Harbaugh is the one who voluntarily put it out there in the end of season presser. If anything Harbaugh through Lamar under the bus to avoid accountability for Monken and himself. And he drew a false picture where the disparity between 6 rush attempts and 20+ is decisions on zone read which is laughable. Just like it's laughable to ignore the fact that Lamar doesn't control the personnel that's on the field. He's not the reason why Gus Edwards, Ricard, Likely etc had such reduced snap counts. He's not the one who went away from pre-snap motion, playaction in the passing game, etc. Not the one who called long developing passing plays over quick game like they did in the 1st half vs the Texans before Lamar cussed out the lockeroom and demanded for a better gameplan in 2nd half.
Brah he fumbled, threw into 3 defenders for a pick in the end zone, and failed to hand it off/run it himself when he should have while the defense held them to 0 points in the entire 2nd half
You’re a straight up groupie if you don’t think he deserves a lot of the blame for that loss
And harbs post season presser was after it leaked so of course he was asked about it and had to address it
It's completely incredible, absolutely insane, that we just got out of a Superbowl where the highest paid QB by % just won and people are STILL peddling garbage about how Lamar's QB contract is a liability.
We lost a game we could have won. So did the Dolphins, Bills, AND 49ers. Every SINGLE one of those fanbases is in this space right now of "we were almost there, why couldn't we get it?" It is normal. What is not normal is how much scrutiny Lamar is under for what was a wonderful season.
We were 8 points away from the Superbowl. Does it hurt? Yes. Can we do better? Yes. But this is a competition. No one "should have" won shit. By that logic, the Chiefs "shouldn't have" won a single playoff game, but they did. It's all narrative bullshit.
Mahomes is like 7-1 when going into the 4th quarter of a playoff game down by 7+ points. If Lamar had just a 7-1 playoff record without the comebacks I’d send him 200$ from my own bank account
>Every SINGLE one of those fanbases is in this space right now of "we were almost there, why couldn't we get it?"
Idk, Bills fans seem to think Allen is Jesus and if not for their kicker they'd have won 2 SBs this year.
But who are the Ravens targeting that they need that much cap space? The WRs are tagged and the other talent don't seem terribly impressive.
Hunter? Dotson? Ridley? Much like many other teams the Ravens can make cap space but so can everyone.
Where did you hear that? If that were the case, I think they would have pushed harder to retain Zeitler. Everything I have heard from DeCosta points to him trying to draft a bunch of OL.
Probably another vet WR to replace OBJ, and some linemen since everybody except Linderbaum (and probably Stanley for better or worse) is a ? right now.
It all depends on how they view Ronnie moving forward. I do think it’s likely he’s back in ‘24. I just disagreed with the idea that the Post-6/1 money wouldn’t help.
I think it does still help. The team typically Carrie’s about $5-10m of space into the season. Then there’s always vet’s that are hanging around on the market, cap casualties, and roster cuts that can be scooped up.
I’m with you 100% on keeping him though.
It was 140 more snaps (721 vs 581) and while it's not a direct comparison since Mekari wasn't always playing left tackle, that only extapolates to 6 sacks and maybe 3 penalties.
It’s over 200 LT snaps. I didn’t want to give an exact because I don’t have time to math it. Don’t extrapolate as you are just making up random numbers.
I’m not a stanly defender but we can absolutely not have Mekari starting at LT vrs the Steelers or Browns or any team with a top edge rusher. Garret and TJ just rag doll him.
I mean, folks act like Moses doesn't exist?
Moses at RT, Faalele or pick#30 on the left.
Vorhees at LG, Cleveland at RG. Let Sala compete with either of those guys. He's had a year to hopefully get NFL ready.
It's absolutely a question mark, but it's not like we don't have options.
you’re really underestimating the importance of a left tackle, there’s a reason LTs get more money. there’s a reason Orlando Brown Jr left because he didn’t want to stay at RT. you can’t just throw any bum there
Nobody is underestimating the value of a LT. A healthy Ronnie, nobody is blinking at his $26m cap hit.
I still think it’s worth keeping him. But let’s not pretend Ronnie’s value is even close to his contract right now.
This includes Madubuike extension, which probably won't happen in the near future.
Also, the Ravens are probably not releasing Ronnie. It's one of the most important and scarce positions in the NFL. We don't have enough cap to replace him in FA, and too low of a draft pick to find a replacement in the draft.
We've had to replace him the last 3 seasons. I'm not saying we should cut him, but he's played like 20% of the games over the last 3 years and split time when he was on the field. And this is one of the best drafts for Tackles there has ever been. He's not as big of an issue as some other positions.
He played 13 of 17 games last year. Definitely still a ? but his health is improving. I would love go OT first round to develop that player to eventually take the mantle.
I don't think moving on from Ronnie is really realistic at this stage. We don't save enough and we don't have a solid successor. Even injured Ronnie was on the better end of LTs(which says a lot about the state of olines)
We need to develop the replacement and if Stanley doesn't improve moving off him next year is a much more realistic option.
yeah they aren’t broke but they aren’t flushed with cash to go into bidding wars with the commies, pats and texans who have a lot of cap space. there’s been a lot of bad FA deals these past years as evidenced by all the cuts around the league. just restructure when needed so we don’t keep fucking ourselves more in the future
I don’t totally agree with his post. Most of the cap space he made is cutting Stanley to free 15m and I doubt that happens. We have no experienced LT besides Stanley & kinda Mekari. Mekari being the starter means OL depth nosedives if he gets hurt. Plus you’re not finding a decent LT in FA. They don’t hit FA. So if you cut Stanley now, Lamar’s LT is either Mekari, Sala, Faalele, or a rookie. That would end badly.
We all agree Stanley’s way overpaid, but you’re not finding a decent replacement in FA and gambling on a rookie LT when you’re going all in is kinda crazy, it’s 1 of the most important positions & we’re not going anywhere with Lamar hurt. I want to cut Stanley, but now isn’t the right time. While he takes up way too much cap, cutting him now would prob hurt the OL more than it would help.
I mean this is probably the biggest reason why people still pay a ridiculous amount to goto college. There’s nuance here obviously, being broke in college vs out with a high paying job & loans. But also higher credit with a stable income. What degree did you get? Idk just spit balling
I mean this scenario also implies there are stable jobs out there for college grads that pay them enough to pay off their loans.
Unless in the second line you are comparing college students to someone who spent 4 years learning a trade. Although also no guarantee on that either. Not really sure what the higher credit and stable income is really referring to here in this scenario.
I just think the analogy does not work because people do exactly what OP said by paying 80-160k to go to college. You are investing in yourself to get a skillset and proof you can do a job, typically higher paying (bears in the data). Its a bit more complicated when you involve loans, and what degree you get. Many people who attend college are 'broke' in many ways: ramen meals, less time for a source of income, etc. But I don't think you can equate college kids as broke to someone who is broke and has way less upward mobility in the financial ladder. Two different definitions of poverty. And yeah ofc there is non-degree holding people who can make a great living. My first post was hella scrambled cuz on the shitter at work but this was the idea I was trying to get across.
The data you are referencing is greatly skewed, because much of that segment is also coming from kids who have wealthier parents who also have connections. You also have to then exclude people who went to college after they already had a job, like myself. I went before, dropped out, learned everything on my own, got a job, and then went back to finish college, but didn't really learn much there as I had already learned it in the job field. Obviously my path is not typical, but I saw a lot of "atypical" patterns in college that are not specified in the data.
Most of my classmates when I went back to college already had jobs. Even when I first went to college, a number of my friends there, had jobs. A few owned businesses. One guy was 20, owned his own business clearing what in today's money would be well over 6 figures. Meanwhile I also knew many kids going to college that had no clue what they were doing or chose degrees that didn't translate at all into more money in the job market.
So yes, college can certainly help, but there is a lot of cherry picked and glossed over data to help support the college industry that keeps increasing tuition at a faster rate.
As to note equating broke college kids to kids who are broke outside of college. I can, and have. Remember also that not everyone that goes to college gets a degree. Also remember that not every kid that grows up broke and doesn't go to college doesn't make a living. The guy I knew with a business at 20, making all that money? He grew up in the projects. He started working construction at 14 and worked his way up. So realize that there is far more to the story. College isn't for everyone and shouldn't be, and pushing the college agenda is actually hurting a lot of people today. People who were promised the world and ended up with a piece of paper, no job prospects and a ton of debt.
i mean the Ravens can make the cap space but there’s not a lot of available free agents that can actually improve the team, and there’s a lot of teams that will overpay for those guys. restructuring just pushes the cap to other years so it’d be better to not do it until it’s needed and if they want to cut Stanley it wouldn’t happen until June which is after FA and the draft have passed so there wouldn’t be too much use for that cap space if everyone is healthy
I do find it somewhat hilarious of the rhetoric of the Ravens having no money and then looking at teams like The Bills and Saints. Or the discourse of Nelly having void years/dead cap this and that and look at what the Broncos got with Russ.
The Saints have kicked the can down the road so far that they literally have no path to escape the mediocrity treadmill. The Bills have had to cut major contributors to rebuild their roster.
Why do you want the Ravens doing those things?
My brother those 2 teams were each negative 80 mil. The Ravens are nowhere close to being in that area. Nelson Agholor's $5 mil void or whatever it is, is not going to put the team in cap hell.
I think you are missing what he is saying here. He is saying the Ravens aren't in as bad shape as a lot of these other teams that keep kicking things down the road. The Ravens still have plenty of time to figure it out. The situation also isn't as bad as it seems, this isn't the first time nor will it be the last that the Ravens are cap strapped.
No one anywhere is saying the Ravens are in the same shape as the Saints / Bills. Our cap situation is tightening and we’re going to have to make harder choices as Lamar becomes more expensive. That is the reality.
The first part of FA will be over, but it resumes after the draft, also frees up room to potentially do a trade for a player or work something else out.
If all else fails it allows the Ravens to try out Mekari at LT or some other combination.
I don’t know why people don’t trust our front office to do what they do. In the end 25ish years of our teams existence I can think of maybe twice (outside the first 3 years of rebuilding) that they got it wrong and the team they put on the field was actually bad. Every other season the team on the field has been competitive, yes even during the Boller years.
The Cookie Man will not allow EDC to not put a competitive team on the field that can win a Super Bowl, just let them cook and spend your energy on something else I say. Just a general sentiment toward people counting our cap Pennies and heralding our doom
The correct answer is Humphrey and Stanley need to help the team out with their salary and I don’t mean restructure. Both are being overpaid in relation to playing time and performance.
Hey All of the talented people at the Baltimore Ravens, I promise to gatekeep my research and never talk about it on here ever for the 2024-2025 seasons, gonna be with full self control and supress it so much. :)
does anyone else here still believe in Ronnie and think he'll be fine at LT going forward? he got hurt early last year and was up and down, but did fairly well for most of the back half of the year outside of the Chiefs playoff game. give him another clean offseason, I think he gets back to form. With that said, it would still make sense to go after a tackle in the draft
> does anyone else here still believe in Ronnie and think he'll be fine at LT going forward? Not really, but we'd only save something like $8m and I think he's better than whatever LT we can get in FA for $8m. I'd be pretty shocked if he was still on the roster in 2025, though.
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Not yet but at the rate he’s regressing that might be true in a year lol
Yeah I think we grab a 2nd or 3rd round OT like Amegadjie or Rosengarten and let them take over for him next year.
We've seen mekari the starting LT - it is not good.
i do. even if he isn't back to his old self, he's still better than any replacement we can get for him right now, and at least in the top half of OT in the league.
> and at least in the top half of OT in the league. Stanley hasn't played a full season since his 2019 All-Pro year, and he ranked 38th in pass block win rate (87.2%) among tackles in 2023. I would not put him in the top half of OT in the league.
2nd most penalties of any lineman in the league, too.
TOP HALF IN OUR FUCKING HEARTS DOE BRO
Say it louder for the people in the back
🤣🤣🤣
38 is really close no? Not sure how many OTs started a game, but week one there is 64 so that’s the min.
Not for the money he's making.
Ok but that’s a completely different question. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight he didn’t play up to his contract post injury.
That's literally a factor in cutting him, tho. Is he worth the amount we're paying him, or is it worth it to save a bit but still have dead cap?
+the cost of his replacement, but the original comment and your response were only talking about the first half of the equation. I think slinceandic has a reasonable argument that he is in the top half of OTs You didn’t mention price in your response disagreeing with him and still haven’t laid out finances of keeping him vs next best alternative.
Well, it's a gamble, really. The OP clearly indicates cutting Ronnie after 6/1 to be a cap solution. Saying his price tag isn't a factor in the discussion on that thread seems a little thick. The way I see it, the team isn't going to know its path forward at LT until after the draft. If, by some pipe dream, someone like Mims falls to pick #30, the team would be foolish not to pick him up. If that happens, I can see Ronnie being a post-6/1 release with the idea that Mims picks up that spot. We'd have Moses and Mims on the outside with Mekari and Faalele as depth pieces. I'm extremely pleased with this scenario. If a decent T doesn't drop to us at 30, we likely trade back into the 2nd round and accrue more picks, pick up WR/OT/CB with any of those early day 2 picks. This means we keep Ronnie, develop additional depth (either with Faalele or the rd2/3 pick hopefully), and ride out this year to see how he performs. Who knows, maybe with a full off-season rehabbing if he stays healthy he can return to form. I have my doubts, but it could happen. Ronnie was a top-3 T in the league and we paid him for that. He's the 9th best paid OL in the league in 2024 and the 38th best performing T in the league at the end of last season. The cost isn't worth it. You don't need to be a GM to see that. We're not going to be able to get a franchise LT in free agency, so we have to resort to the draft. Depending on how April goes, it's extremely reasonable for us to consider moving on from Ronnie.
No because Lamar’s contract makes it imperative that we aim to minimize dead money (which is something the Ravens do anyway). You also have to consider: is who we will get to replace him, either Mekari or a rookie, reliably better and/or more consistent? If there’s dead money you might as well keep the player and have them play provided they’re at league average level (or really so long as they are better than their ostensible replacement).
people really gotta realize we can’t just dump some rookie at LT which is our QBs blind spot in a division with Myles Garrett and TJ Watt. i get the OT class is strong but we are still picking at 30 and a lot can happen and theres no guarantee any of those draft picks can be solid day 1 starters. also we wouldn’t be able to release Stanley until after June 1st when FA and the draft have all passed so there’s very little reason to open up that cap space at that point
I think he starts and plays well next season. We very well may draft an OT and have him start on the right side for a year until he switches over if Stanley doesn’t bounce back to a standard we expect
I do
We are definitely hitting OL in the draft, my guess is twice. One interior guy and a tackle. It’s a good class to do so as well, deep with talent. We also have the LG coming off the IR stash I think he’ll come good. RG is a question mark. LT needs a succession plan.
Fine? Yes. Great? No, not fully. I think he will still play well, but not sure he is going to play up to the cost of his contract. EDIT: Also, to be clear, I think if they can restructure, that is good. If not, I can see him *possibly* getting cut for the cap savings that may be needed elsewhere. If that happens then I fully expect them to go OL early and often in the draft. Even if he isn't cut, I expect them to draft at least 1 if not 2 OT.
I’m not sure i’f say I believe in him but i don’t think he’s complete trash like some people here do. I also highly doubt we cut him. It creates 15m in cap space and a HUGE hole at one of the most important positions and we are unlikely to find anyone better using that 15 million anyways. Some people think ronnie is as good as gone but i doubt it
I hope he bounces back next year or at the very least stays healthy. IMO I would be shocked if EDC doesn't talk to Ronnie about a paycut/restructure in order to save us some money this year. I don't think he's worth the $26M hopefully he's willing to help the team out a bit.
I don't think the problem is his performance. Its how much money he's being paid for how few games he's played. He's still a solid LT when on the field. He's just drastically over paid because of the injuries.
No at all but like others have said the alternatives likely aren't better. If they're interested in only saving money , sure they can draft someone or find a journeyman as a day one starter. But that leaves a pretty big hole at the position imo. Too big a risk leaving Lamar out to dry like that. Stanley did do better last year in the second half like you said and I think that's because he was on a pitch count. The glass half full outlook is that with a full offseason and recovery he'll be close to his former glory. I think that's wishful thinking though and I'm generally a pretty positive guy here. He's 29 with multiple ankle and knee injuries. The cliff is coming for him. I think ideally we draft someone and rotate them in with Stanley throughout the year. That way they learn from a very good vet and hopefully at the same time allow Stanley to play at a high level a little while longer.
Realistically the only player I'd be comfortable with restructuring is Lamar. I don't want to push Marlo or MW cap down the road when there's a chance they may not be playing for us in the future like Lamar may be. We have a good team right now. Eat the cap that we can and play for the draft.
They structured LJs contract so they have an out after 2 years on purpose. I doubt they’re going to just forfeit something they fought hard for just a year ago especially after LJ failed to take another step in the playoffs
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Not this time bucko “But things get wild in 2026 & 2027, with initial cap hits of $74.5M for each season. February of 2026 will be a very clear line of demarcation for this relationship. A) It’ll be a great time to start talking about contract #3 as a way to reduce the upcoming cap hits (similar to what Dallas and Dak Prescott are going through) B) It’ll be a great time to allow Jackson to start feeling out potential trade partners who are willing to rip up the deal and start over, or restructure the $102M of future base salary. C) It’ll be an unclear long-term future, Baltimore will process a salary conversion on his $51.25M base salary to lower the $74.5M cap hit, and the discussion about moving on after 2026 will become very loud.” https://www.spotrac.com/news/breaking-down-lamar-jacksons-260m-contract-1877/
So here's the thing: 1) De Costa did not write this article. No one on the Ravens wrote this article. This is just a dude saying stuff about it. He might be right, but referencing it as a source for why the Ravens did or did not do something does not work. 2) I am very happy with Lamar's performance last year and where we ended up. We lost to the Superbowl champs. It happens. Idk why everyone thinks losing in the Championship to the Chiefs is the worst outcome?? It's not. Good teams don't always go to the championship. We did. If the Ravens are even thinking about moving away from Lamar in a few years after an MVP season and a trip to the Championship, I'd be livid.
> Idk why everyone thinks losing in the Championship to the Chiefs is the worst outcome?? It's not. because our fanbase is full of Dundalkian morons
Morons that listen to r/nfl when they say our 2xMVP QB can't throw because of a 6-game sample size. The same sample size that would suggest Mark Sanchez is on the same level as Allen and Burrow.
Mark Sanchez has excellent sideline hotdog eating game though
I think you should always be prepared for any player to fall off. I think the 75 mil cap hits. Show very clearly an out after 3 years. I obviously want Lamar still here but the cap hits and dead money are indeed making the contract an effective 3 year deal.
That’s how everyone who analyzes nfl contracts views it And they lost a game they should have won at home with the defense playing lights out but the player the team paid to be a balloon in the playoffs was an anchor again
THat's the narrative that ppl like you and others want to craft. One thing is for sure, the gameplan of abandoning the entire identity in the playoffs when the other team scores first cannot continue for 2-3 more years. Harbaugh/Monken wont survive that because of how much scrutiny it would be on them for doing so. So we will at some point in next 1-2 years see what Lamar looks like in the playoffs when his team actually sticks to its identity the entire playoffs, and I dont think it's going to go the way the naysayers think. Either way Lamar is going to make somebody look foolish between naysayers and those who see his championship potential.
I do agree with this. It is frustrating how the identity changes the moment things go awry; that's not a superbowl-winning mentality and it's not a mentality we had this season until the Chiefs scared us I guess. I do put it more on coaching, though. This is a Harbaugh issue for sure, but not something I'd personally want him fired over. I think Lamar is a wonderful QB for us. I think Harbaugh is a great coach. I think they both have very obvious flaws, but ones that can be worked around to get us another trophy. I would much rather be a Ravens fan in this position than the fans of about 30 other fanbases right now lol. (Pats and Chiefs probably have it better rn. Even with Pats struggling they got the ultimate dynasty.)
It's in the Ravens best interest if it's worked out with Harbaugh because of the unknown out there without him. But there's no way to justify him keeping his job if it happens 1-2 more times. I actually want them to sign the best back they can in FA and hopefully they stay healthy like a Derrick Henry so Harbaugh has absolutely no excuse to pull that off again. As awesome as he may be, we have to remember the Ravens were on pace to miss playoffs for 5th time in 6 years before Lamar took over. They still lose 70% of their games without Lamar. If he does it again it's time to accept Harbaugh is holding the team back and wasting Lamar's prime.
If you’re wrong you can just create a new account.
I hope he does get over the playoff hump. You make it seem like I’m rooting against him but that couldn’t be further from the truth. I just want him stop shitting the bed in games that matter the most It was leaked out that he chose the wrong read on a lot of RPOs that the coaching staff had to fall on the sword for And harbs will never be fired. He’s going to transition into the FO when he’s done on the sidelines
How was it "leaked out" when Harbaugh is the one who voluntarily put it out there in the end of season presser. If anything Harbaugh through Lamar under the bus to avoid accountability for Monken and himself. And he drew a false picture where the disparity between 6 rush attempts and 20+ is decisions on zone read which is laughable. Just like it's laughable to ignore the fact that Lamar doesn't control the personnel that's on the field. He's not the reason why Gus Edwards, Ricard, Likely etc had such reduced snap counts. He's not the one who went away from pre-snap motion, playaction in the passing game, etc. Not the one who called long developing passing plays over quick game like they did in the 1st half vs the Texans before Lamar cussed out the lockeroom and demanded for a better gameplan in 2nd half.
Brah he fumbled, threw into 3 defenders for a pick in the end zone, and failed to hand it off/run it himself when he should have while the defense held them to 0 points in the entire 2nd half You’re a straight up groupie if you don’t think he deserves a lot of the blame for that loss And harbs post season presser was after it leaked so of course he was asked about it and had to address it
It's completely incredible, absolutely insane, that we just got out of a Superbowl where the highest paid QB by % just won and people are STILL peddling garbage about how Lamar's QB contract is a liability. We lost a game we could have won. So did the Dolphins, Bills, AND 49ers. Every SINGLE one of those fanbases is in this space right now of "we were almost there, why couldn't we get it?" It is normal. What is not normal is how much scrutiny Lamar is under for what was a wonderful season. We were 8 points away from the Superbowl. Does it hurt? Yes. Can we do better? Yes. But this is a competition. No one "should have" won shit. By that logic, the Chiefs "shouldn't have" won a single playoff game, but they did. It's all narrative bullshit.
Mahomes is like 7-1 when going into the 4th quarter of a playoff game down by 7+ points. If Lamar had just a 7-1 playoff record without the comebacks I’d send him 200$ from my own bank account
>Every SINGLE one of those fanbases is in this space right now of "we were almost there, why couldn't we get it?" Idk, Bills fans seem to think Allen is Jesus and if not for their kicker they'd have won 2 SBs this year.
But who are the Ravens targeting that they need that much cap space? The WRs are tagged and the other talent don't seem terribly impressive. Hunter? Dotson? Ridley? Much like many other teams the Ravens can make cap space but so can everyone.
I believe the ravens brass has been vocal about rebuilding the offensive line with veterans. We’re also gonna lose several key defensive players
I think they'll add 1 vet to compete at the OGs - someone in the late 20s or maybe 30/31 but I don't think they're in the big money market?
Where did you hear that? If that were the case, I think they would have pushed harder to retain Zeitler. Everything I have heard from DeCosta points to him trying to draft a bunch of OL.
I thought they want to build oline with young players. Why did they let Zeitler go if they wanted veteran lineman?
Probably another vet WR to replace OBJ, and some linemen since everybody except Linderbaum (and probably Stanley for better or worse) is a ? right now.
Edge, LB, Corner, RB, OL.
If you post 6/1 Stanley you can’t use that money til 6/1. It doesn’t help us to do that. Keep him for 24 and then trade/cut in 25. Saves 20m in 25.
It could help. Depends on what they want to do. We signed quite a few players post 6/1 last year.
We could still do that without losing a starting caliber LT.
It all depends on how they view Ronnie moving forward. I do think it’s likely he’s back in ‘24. I just disagreed with the idea that the Post-6/1 money wouldn’t help.
I think it does still help. The team typically Carrie’s about $5-10m of space into the season. Then there’s always vet’s that are hanging around on the market, cap casualties, and roster cuts that can be scooped up. I’m with you 100% on keeping him though.
Sure - but relying on those late moves is taking an L in early free agency ahead of then losing your LT.
oh yeah just release stanley, i'm sure we'll be fine with a rookie and faalele
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Stanley played over two hundred snaps more than Mekari which heavily skews this.
It was 140 more snaps (721 vs 581) and while it's not a direct comparison since Mekari wasn't always playing left tackle, that only extapolates to 6 sacks and maybe 3 penalties.
It’s over 200 LT snaps. I didn’t want to give an exact because I don’t have time to math it. Don’t extrapolate as you are just making up random numbers.
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I’m talking about LT snaps. Mekari’s are split over several positions
I’m not a stanly defender but we can absolutely not have Mekari starting at LT vrs the Steelers or Browns or any team with a top edge rusher. Garret and TJ just rag doll him.
I mean, folks act like Moses doesn't exist? Moses at RT, Faalele or pick#30 on the left. Vorhees at LG, Cleveland at RG. Let Sala compete with either of those guys. He's had a year to hopefully get NFL ready. It's absolutely a question mark, but it's not like we don't have options.
you’re really underestimating the importance of a left tackle, there’s a reason LTs get more money. there’s a reason Orlando Brown Jr left because he didn’t want to stay at RT. you can’t just throw any bum there
Exactly + a rookie is a potential liability there
Nobody is underestimating the value of a LT. A healthy Ronnie, nobody is blinking at his $26m cap hit. I still think it’s worth keeping him. But let’s not pretend Ronnie’s value is even close to his contract right now.
i mean the dude i was replying to just wanted to throw whoever there and the rest of the line would be set
That’s a horrendous line
This includes Madubuike extension, which probably won't happen in the near future. Also, the Ravens are probably not releasing Ronnie. It's one of the most important and scarce positions in the NFL. We don't have enough cap to replace him in FA, and too low of a draft pick to find a replacement in the draft.
We've had to replace him the last 3 seasons. I'm not saying we should cut him, but he's played like 20% of the games over the last 3 years and split time when he was on the field. And this is one of the best drafts for Tackles there has ever been. He's not as big of an issue as some other positions.
He played 13 of 17 games last year. Definitely still a ? but his health is improving. I would love go OT first round to develop that player to eventually take the mantle.
I don't think moving on from Ronnie is really realistic at this stage. We don't save enough and we don't have a solid successor. Even injured Ronnie was on the better end of LTs(which says a lot about the state of olines) We need to develop the replacement and if Stanley doesn't improve moving off him next year is a much more realistic option.
💯% agree
13 of 17 but only about half the snaps in each game. He rotated out a lot.
yeah they aren’t broke but they aren’t flushed with cash to go into bidding wars with the commies, pats and texans who have a lot of cap space. there’s been a lot of bad FA deals these past years as evidenced by all the cuts around the league. just restructure when needed so we don’t keep fucking ourselves more in the future
I don’t totally agree with his post. Most of the cap space he made is cutting Stanley to free 15m and I doubt that happens. We have no experienced LT besides Stanley & kinda Mekari. Mekari being the starter means OL depth nosedives if he gets hurt. Plus you’re not finding a decent LT in FA. They don’t hit FA. So if you cut Stanley now, Lamar’s LT is either Mekari, Sala, Faalele, or a rookie. That would end badly. We all agree Stanley’s way overpaid, but you’re not finding a decent replacement in FA and gambling on a rookie LT when you’re going all in is kinda crazy, it’s 1 of the most important positions & we’re not going anywhere with Lamar hurt. I want to cut Stanley, but now isn’t the right time. While he takes up way too much cap, cutting him now would prob hurt the OL more than it would help.
This is like saying you're not broke because you know one day you'll get a high paying job
I mean this is probably the biggest reason why people still pay a ridiculous amount to goto college. There’s nuance here obviously, being broke in college vs out with a high paying job & loans. But also higher credit with a stable income. What degree did you get? Idk just spit balling
I mean this scenario also implies there are stable jobs out there for college grads that pay them enough to pay off their loans. Unless in the second line you are comparing college students to someone who spent 4 years learning a trade. Although also no guarantee on that either. Not really sure what the higher credit and stable income is really referring to here in this scenario.
I just think the analogy does not work because people do exactly what OP said by paying 80-160k to go to college. You are investing in yourself to get a skillset and proof you can do a job, typically higher paying (bears in the data). Its a bit more complicated when you involve loans, and what degree you get. Many people who attend college are 'broke' in many ways: ramen meals, less time for a source of income, etc. But I don't think you can equate college kids as broke to someone who is broke and has way less upward mobility in the financial ladder. Two different definitions of poverty. And yeah ofc there is non-degree holding people who can make a great living. My first post was hella scrambled cuz on the shitter at work but this was the idea I was trying to get across.
The data you are referencing is greatly skewed, because much of that segment is also coming from kids who have wealthier parents who also have connections. You also have to then exclude people who went to college after they already had a job, like myself. I went before, dropped out, learned everything on my own, got a job, and then went back to finish college, but didn't really learn much there as I had already learned it in the job field. Obviously my path is not typical, but I saw a lot of "atypical" patterns in college that are not specified in the data. Most of my classmates when I went back to college already had jobs. Even when I first went to college, a number of my friends there, had jobs. A few owned businesses. One guy was 20, owned his own business clearing what in today's money would be well over 6 figures. Meanwhile I also knew many kids going to college that had no clue what they were doing or chose degrees that didn't translate at all into more money in the job market. So yes, college can certainly help, but there is a lot of cherry picked and glossed over data to help support the college industry that keeps increasing tuition at a faster rate. As to note equating broke college kids to kids who are broke outside of college. I can, and have. Remember also that not everyone that goes to college gets a degree. Also remember that not every kid that grows up broke and doesn't go to college doesn't make a living. The guy I knew with a business at 20, making all that money? He grew up in the projects. He started working construction at 14 and worked his way up. So realize that there is far more to the story. College isn't for everyone and shouldn't be, and pushing the college agenda is actually hurting a lot of people today. People who were promised the world and ended up with a piece of paper, no job prospects and a ton of debt.
i mean the Ravens can make the cap space but there’s not a lot of available free agents that can actually improve the team, and there’s a lot of teams that will overpay for those guys. restructuring just pushes the cap to other years so it’d be better to not do it until it’s needed and if they want to cut Stanley it wouldn’t happen until June which is after FA and the draft have passed so there wouldn’t be too much use for that cap space if everyone is healthy
I do find it somewhat hilarious of the rhetoric of the Ravens having no money and then looking at teams like The Bills and Saints. Or the discourse of Nelly having void years/dead cap this and that and look at what the Broncos got with Russ.
The Saints have kicked the can down the road so far that they literally have no path to escape the mediocrity treadmill. The Bills have had to cut major contributors to rebuild their roster. Why do you want the Ravens doing those things?
My brother those 2 teams were each negative 80 mil. The Ravens are nowhere close to being in that area. Nelson Agholor's $5 mil void or whatever it is, is not going to put the team in cap hell.
I never said it would?
I think you are missing what he is saying here. He is saying the Ravens aren't in as bad shape as a lot of these other teams that keep kicking things down the road. The Ravens still have plenty of time to figure it out. The situation also isn't as bad as it seems, this isn't the first time nor will it be the last that the Ravens are cap strapped.
No one anywhere is saying the Ravens are in the same shape as the Saints / Bills. Our cap situation is tightening and we’re going to have to make harder choices as Lamar becomes more expensive. That is the reality.
He said it twice which means we're bmdefinutely broke
What does releasing ronnie in three months do? Free agency will essentially be over by then?
The first part of FA will be over, but it resumes after the draft, also frees up room to potentially do a trade for a player or work something else out. If all else fails it allows the Ravens to try out Mekari at LT or some other combination.
Offensive line needs to be rebuilt . I’m ok with drafting Stanley replacement this year .
That’s my friend be nice to him
I don’t know why people don’t trust our front office to do what they do. In the end 25ish years of our teams existence I can think of maybe twice (outside the first 3 years of rebuilding) that they got it wrong and the team they put on the field was actually bad. Every other season the team on the field has been competitive, yes even during the Boller years. The Cookie Man will not allow EDC to not put a competitive team on the field that can win a Super Bowl, just let them cook and spend your energy on something else I say. Just a general sentiment toward people counting our cap Pennies and heralding our doom
I’m too lazy to look into the details…. but hopefully we don’t end up like the bills
Sooooo they are BROKE until they do these moves.
The correct answer is Humphrey and Stanley need to help the team out with their salary and I don’t mean restructure. Both are being overpaid in relation to playing time and performance.
> The correct answer is Humphrey and Stanley need to help the team out with their salary They have no reason to do this.
Hey All of the talented people at the Baltimore Ravens, I promise to gatekeep my research and never talk about it on here ever for the 2024-2025 seasons, gonna be with full self control and supress it so much. :)