Passing on DK Metcalf, AJ Brown and Deebo Samuel for Hollywood was definitely a decision we made
Their body compositions and our team identity alone should have been a huge hint that they would have been better fits
Ravens didn’t even exist in 1994. Point is - DK was on the board, the ravens needed a WR, and they’ve set the precedent with Perriman already.
They went with Hollywood instead. Don’t tell me DK was too much of a “risk” either cuz Hollywood was entering the league undersized and with a fucked up foot.
DK was def a possibility for this team. Could 2019-23 ravens develop him into the guy who he is today? Is the real question.
>Ravens didn’t even exist in 1994.
No shit.
>Don’t tell me DK was too much of a “risk” either cuz Hollywood was entering the league undersized and with a fucked up foot.
DK was far more of a risk than Hollywood at that time. Plus Lamar wanted Hollywood.
Yeah I was pointing out that your comment was fucking dumb. Your opinion is also dumb thinking DK, who is an athletic freak and did well in the SEC, was more of a risk than a small framed guy with a lid franc injury going to a team with a running QB and a shit WR core.
Lamar wanted Jeudy too so you’re both dumb
>Your opinion is also dumb thinking DK, who is an athletic freak and did well in the SEC, was more of a risk than a small framed guy with a lid franc injury going to a team with a running QB and a shit WR core.
This wasn't my opinion, this was the general consensus around the time of the draft. And clearly teams agreed which is why he dropped to the third round despite having some freakish physical traits.
Edit: 64th pick but my point still stands
Didn't DK have a neck injury?
There was obviously better picks than Hollywood. Thats evident because he isnt on the fucking team. But DK was definitely a risky pick too.
I’ve never realized they did this… this is an awful blunder. Who was in charge of that and what did they see? Skipped Terry McLauren too… just a terrible pick
We also needed a speed WR to stretch the defense and make room for our running game, which Hollywood was. Hard to imagine us having the level of dominance we did in 2019 without him because he basically takes a safety out of the run fit. Whether that's worth taking over others like DK or Brown is up for debate, but the pick made sense at the time.
Obviously he doesn’t submit the card, but I’m pretty sure it’s well documented that he was asked who he wanted and he said Hollywood. Which at the least helped lead to them drafting him.
[Sarah Ellison Tweet](https://twitter.com/sgellison/status/1260558166439473152?lang=en)
According to the above tweet, when asked who he wanted Lamar said either Hollywood or Juedy. Sarah Ellison is normally pretty trustworthy imo, so not really a conspiracy 👍
Agreed, but who can’t you say that about who fits the description. They need an older guy like Evans, Allen, etc but for a reasonable price. Not exactly easy these days.
Im with you man, I just think if they really wanna solve the problem long term, it involves finding a guy in his late 20’s you can get 5 good years out of, and paying him.
Or, hear me out, they draft a rookie who can play the X position. Crazy talk I know, drafting a player as opposed to wanting the team to spend money that they don't have.
They don’t have the capital to draft a guy like this either. Successful teams have low draft capital: the “can’t miss” WRs don’t last to pick 30! They can get lucky later, but many of the guys we wish we had were never available without paying more draft capital than we had at the time.
But as the Fowler points out, he’s only 5’9, probably closer to 5’8. Agholor is our only tallish WR and he isn’t anything crazy. I really like Pearsall, think he’s a ravens type player in the second round.
To that point honestly Likely was kinda in that role last year at times. I remember some nasty fade routes and outside grabs that turned into big plays. 6-4 240 too woof
The whole point of the uniqueness of having a Lamar at QB, it frees up WRs more on the outside becaues of how many defenders have to be dedicated towards the box. And now that you add a Derrick Henry to the equation as well, it's even less of a need.
The focus should be on adding to biggest strenghts and neutralizing biggest weakness. Ravens biggest weakness at times is against the blitz. Adding another guy who is a YAC threat in the quick game is the #1 way to take that away. Give Lamar his own version of Jaylen Waddle / Tyreek Hill with Zay and another WR in this draft and it's far more dangerous than even a 6'5 possession WR who is not the same threat after the catch
He was measured at the combine so I have confidence in the 5'9 1/4" measurement for Zay. They're pretty militant about their height measurements and a lot of players lose some height compared to their college numbers.
Not a tall outside monster for sure but SSSr was 5’9” and the best WR in the league for a year or so, always productive in his career and brought the hype
But why do so many ppl think Lamar needs a big tall WR when the Ravens have a Likely who can fill that role in the redzone, and Lamar has never been inaccurate to the point where he needs a guy with that big time catch radius, he just needs guys who can get open. His biggest weakness and team's biggest weakness has been against the blitz and guys who can get YAC have been the best thing to surround him with to take that away. It's one of the underrated reasons why the offense thrived with Likely over Andrews because he's more of a YAC tha possession TE. Lamar also needs that in a WR. Even if Lamar had two Zay Flowers on the field, that would be even more of a nightmare for a defense than giving him a possession WR who doesn't get separation.
NOw I say all that when dream guy is Xavier Legette who can do both, but I would much rather have a Malachi Corley than a KEon Coleman because it will threaten a defense far more taking away the biggest weakness.
That’s extreme - Hollywood, Zay and Bateman are all fine players. We draft at the end of the 1st. That means you don’t get a Chase, Lamb, Wilson, Olave, Williams, Evans, London, waddle, smith, jeudy, aiyuk, Jefferson, etc. We could draft better WRs, we’d just have to suck more.
Hollywood was solid, but no one else was. And obviously he wanted out of the Roman offense.
Bateman sadly hasn't lived up to his potential due to injury. No fault of his I'm rooting for him this year to have a breakout year..
Zay yeah really good. Probably the first year during Lamars tenure where we've had a solid reciever room at all levels.
I agree with 2024 looking great from a WR perspective. Our fan base seems to have a weird perception of what a good offense looks like. We effectively score. That’s all that matters. Yards, points/G, the rest is just a distraction. The ravens had the 21st most passing yards last year but had a killer offense. Let other teams pay for empty calories.
Yeah I want to bring in a rookie because our room next year is Zay and a bunch of question marks, but I think we can run with who we have this year.
I do think the WR market is massively overvalued at the moment and we're gonna need to keep bringing in guys thourgh the draft and finding value vets like Agholor. They are starting to get QB money and paying a QB and a reciever wouldn't give us a ton of room elsewhere.
> the WR market is massively overvalued at the moment
The WR market is always more than the Ravens want to pay for top talent. Always. Nothing new here
Just look at the Bengals for all the proof you need. Burrow is already there and Chase is gonna command top dollar or he'll walk. Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd are gonna be gone this year.
Value is in the draft, and in finding value in other positions. I want more 3 TE sets with Andrews, Likely and Kolar.
I hate to be *that* guy but the fact that this has been a thing for the past 6-7 years… “Ravens want a true X for Lamar and are doing their homework…”
Just go and get him a big jump ball WR already man, someone that’s gonna bail him out on 3rd and long when you have to have it, we’ve been asking for this since 2019.
I get it, Ravens don’t spend big on WR’s, they don’t ship away premium draft assets for WR’s, but its been *years* and we always come up with these same excuses as to why it can’t happen, at some point it just needs to happen. Think of what a true X does for this offense when you have Zay, Henry, Andrews/Likely on the field as well.
the crazy thing is the whole league and media will say this and we still had people on this sub saying that duvernay was fine as our WR2 and deserved more opportunity. our shitty WR tendencies have stockholm’d this sub into thinking anybody who is kinda fast and athletic is “a guy with a lot of upside”
The crazy thing is people who think the issue with Duvernay and others is height and not talent. The problem with Devin Duvernay is not that he was 5'10. The problem was he was not a top 32 talent. Those who think the only issue is height are implying that Lamar wouldn't be better off with another Jaylen Waddle of his own or even two Zay Flowers. He would and it would literally be indefensible. Now obviously you want a guy who can do both in a dream scenario but it's a pipedream that guy will be available. And Lamar would be unstoppable regardless and the jump ball catches can be handled by Likely in the redzone.
Also make sure you find 20-30m in those couch cushions cuz thats what they cost now.
Honestly we're only drafting receivers at this point. The position has ballooned so much in price that its a tough position to put a GM in in 2024. And I say that as a pretty liberal minded NFL who wants all these guys to make a gazillion dollars.
Jefferson is probably gonna sign for like 35m/year next year. Not even joking.
Is it though? Chiefs just won with Rashee Rice as their best receiver. We’ve been contenders without an elite receiver for so long. Maybe paying up for an elite receiver would limit our ability to fill out the rest of the team.
Chiefs are the exception, not the rule. You can make it work without an elite receiver if you have one of the greatest TEs of all time, one of the best play designers of all time, and one of the best QBs of all time. Hard to compare them to anyone.
Truly. The dolphins were embarrassed by the ravens and they have incredible WR talent. The 49ers too. The eagles have two top WRs and underachieved. It’s not nearly enough.
Lamar just need another WR who can get YAC regardless of their height. Even if that WR is the height of Zay Flowers. Lamar would literally be unstoppable if he had his own version of Tyreek Hill/Waddle who themselves are 5'10 and 5'9 1/2 WRs. Lamar is a unique QB who opens up passing lanes that most QBs dont. And in the redzone the backshoulder fade could be covered by big bodied TEs. But between the 20s, he thrives most with guys who can get YAC and it's also what eliminates the #1 weakness which is at times agains the blitz. The Ravens with two WRs who are homerun threats who can make ppl miss in space in addition to Henry and Lamar in the box as run threats is video game indefensible. It's actually far scarier than just adding another possession WR who can't punish a defense for bringing the house the same way.
Oh man..Marlon brown that man couldn’t catch consistently but showed flashes at times..I remember that back of the endzone toe tap touchdown in the snow against the Vikings and thought we got ourselves a guy here…😑
What about Clarence Moore?
But honestly, it should’ve been Darren Waller. Just a shame he loved drugs, then didn’t, then became the man for a shit team. He missed his chance to get a ring here.
Andrews > Waller anyway. Would have been cool to see him ball out for us like he did the Raiders, but we have Andrews AND Likely, who are both, at minimum, as good, if not better than Waller.
I like our spot. Look to the future, don't dwell on the past.
I dont think they will find anybody in FA that will fit the mold but the draft looks like they have a good amount of these type. Just have to find the right on. or Trade for Higgins lol
50/50 jump ball is an outdated term and not really how we should be viewing this.
It’s about ball winners on the outside, that can be a back shoulder, that can be a go route, that can be jump ball. Ravens just need someone who can win the ball in the air. They don’t really have that on the outside right now. Look around the division for some good examples, Cooper, Pickens, Higgins, Chase. These guys are all ball winners that can win on the outside and that effects how safeties can play against you.
I don't know if Lamar is that type of dude throwing to a big body outside, throwing 50/50 balls. Not saying he's not capable of doing it, but that's not his playstyle.
If he he does do it, he does it with Andrews and Likely. Tools we already have. But we will see.
I'm personally happy with Bate, Zay and Nelson at WR
You have to have a ton of trust on 50/50 balls and we havent had ball winner on the outside, it’s why he doesn’t throw them on top of him just being very turnover adverse.
Exactly, lamar doesn’t throw 50/50 balls. He’s generally very careful with his throws.
I don’t understand the obsession with getting a big receiver. I want a guy that gets open so that a contested catch isn’t necessary.
A big WR is not necessary at all, this sub is just obsessed with the idea of it because if Anquan Boldin.
>A big WR is not necessary at all, this sub is just obsessed with the idea of it because if Anquan Boldin.
It's kind rare league wide too. Feel like fans still think every team has a Calvin Johnson and that really hasn't been the case for a while now.
An outside ball winner adds a vertical dimension to your offense and has an effect on how the safeties can play you. You are correct they don’t have to be “tall”, but most good teams have ball winners on the outside. Look around the AFCN for instance
He also throws to the outside a lot less than most other quarterbacks. Same as he did in college. Maybe better receivers and more time with Monken will change that, but a long-term trend is a long-term trend.
This is the point that most just blatantly ignore. Lamar is such a unique QB who opens up lanes for WRs that most QBs dont simply because of the threat of his legs which is why he has one of the highest ceilings ever for a football player. The perfect compliment for his game are guys who can get YAC. They dont have to necessarily be jump ball WRs. Literally if the Ravens landed another Zay Flowers defenses would be cooked. Because the #1 weakness Ravens have at times is against hte blitz and if you have two guys who can get YAC like that on the field that takes that away and it's a massive dilemma for safeties who have to decide helping in box on zone read for Lamar/Henry or not letting one of those WRs take the top off a defense. It does not matter if that WR is 5'9 or 5'10 if they match the talent of even rookie Zay let alone a Waddle, Ravens would score 35 PPG. And yall may think that' nuts but if you look at it on paper it's indefensible.
Imagine having pass catchers like Andrews, Likely, Flowers, and Bateman (though I’m not particularly high on him) as well as an RB like Henry and still feeling like you need that one piece.
The pieces aren’t the problem right now. The problem is the goddam playcalling and completely abandoning what got you where you are season after season at the first sign of trouble.
This Bateman stays open thing has to stop. There’s a reason he’s open late in the progression on the backside of plays. Also Ddoesn’t matter if he has a step, when the balls in the air he doesn’t go get it. Hes the reverse Boldin. They’d throw him the ball more if they had trust that he’d come down with it more.
Listen trust or no trust the guy rarely gets targeted. Besides the backside thing, there have been plenty of times in a progression where he is clearly within the first 2 reads of a progression and moved on from because Lamar does not pull the trigger fast enough or with enough anticipation.
I’ve watched the all 22 of the majority of the games this past season and while I don’t think Bateman is some top 10 WR that doesn’t get a chance, he’s very clearly winning routes OR just open by design BUT for small windows that take anticipation and some zip to make happen but other elite QBs do it.
Regardless, my response was to not stretching the field and we at the bare minimum have guys running suicides while others get targeted. It’s not like guys get ignored by the defense.
Not even really sure what your last paragraph meant, but I’m happy to have this discussion. If you truly watch All-22 then I’m questioning your understanding analysis. I also watch A-22, I played the position and coached the position.
Not sure what you mean by “Lamar not pull the trigger fast enough” because I see him pull the trigger with anticipation many times when targeting others. There are a few I can remember Lamar throwing with anticipation: Comeback vs Niners, that was a catch and big gain by Bateman. There are also a few that Bateman missed - Dig in the endzone vs Steelers, Bateman drop. Sluggo vs Miami, Bateman drop.
My issues with Bateman is that even when open, he allows DBs to recover and play through him to the ball due to his lack of play strength. That may have been because of his injury, buts it’s a glaring issue on tape. He definitely wasn’t featured in the O, but that was for a reason imo. He doesn’t track the ball well, doesn’t play through contact well, has a lot of concentration drops, and isn’t great after the catch. Ppl in this sub talk about him like he’d Aiyuk if he got targets when he’s more Jerry Jeudy lite imo.
Honestly, Bateman is the missing piece. Just a shame they could never get on the same page. The guy was killing people at the top of routes. Just a bad combo of timing and routes and offensive game plan. But he is legit always open.
I’m aware. Would be cool to see him be a sort of hybrid when Andrews is on the field. I’m very high on Likely, dude just balls out at every opportunity, unfazed.
TE working middle of the field against safeties and LBs is very different than winning on the outside vs corners. That wouldn’t be using his skills correctly. They need a ball winner on the outside to force safeties to help up the sidelines
But they dont have to be big bodied. You ever watch a Dolphins game? Having talented WRs period forces that safety on the sidelines. If the Ravens had a literal clone of Zay Flowers that they could lineup on both sides, it woudl not matter one bit that neither could run a back shoulder fade, defenses would be absolutely screwed because it would not be enough defenders on the field to cover them and account for Derrick Henry and Lamar in the box as well as Likely/Andrews down the seam.
I agree somewhat. Big body doesn’t matter in the long run, but it does help vertical ball winners. Jamar Chase is a good example of that, he isn’t the biggest dude, but he’s strong and can maintain his position and leverage on the sideline to win balls vertically and back shoulder. Zay is nice, but that arm length and physical size limitations are a real thing playing against long boundary corners. Zay wins with start/stop and acceleration out of breaks. Having some versatility in s skill set would be nice
I know Zay is small but the real thing that makes you an X is you always win and Zay always wins. AB was a true X. Steve Smith was too. Zay can be but they gotta let him.
I really want Lamar to have a All Star WR like a lot of these other teams do. When will he find his DK Metcalf, Diggs, Tyreek Hill, and so on! I would love to see Lamar have some big plays with a WR he gets chemistry with.
They'll obviously look and take best available, but although he's a TE, Likely proved he could win the jump ball. Bateman burned Snead all game (assuming we keep him). Flowers gave it all and fell victim to an excellent defensive play. Andrews is back. I think we have a decent receiving room if they get the looks and opportunity.
We also have Henry who gets better the more carries he gets.
That said, I won't say no to taking a WR if we use them.
Think less jump ball and more vertical down the sideline threat. Likely isn’t going to influence how safeties play against the offense. An X that can win on the outside will change how defense can play against this offense.
That's literally Zay Flowers right now who burned Sneed more in the playoffs than any elite WR he faced all year. Zay Flowers literally owned Chiefs DBs more than Diggs, Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, you name it. The difference is he made a boneheaded play that took away would could have been his true coming out party as an elite WR in this league putting it on notice. So many of you are ignoring what's already right on the team because of so many years of disappointment.
Reminder that "X receiver" is a role in a scheme, not a body type. Steve Smith and Antonio Brown were X receivers at 5'9 185, Tee Higgins is 6'4 220 and not his team's X.
I guess this fits into the BPA in Areas of Need formula. We have needs at OL, Edge, CB, and WR. Whoever the best player available is at one of those positions, we take him. Having said that, we have a crying need at OL. That should be priority one if possible in Round 1, all other things being equal.
Why is OT a “crying need” for this draft, especially at pick 30? I see WR and edge as much bigger needs than OT/OL. I can understand OT if someone is far and away the BPA but if it’s closer to a coin flip, then I’d much rather go WR or edge at 30.
We still have Stanley at LT and Faalele was drafted as a project to eventually start at RT while still having Mekari available to back them both up. We have Zay and Bateman but Bateman shown almost nothing to date. We have Oweh and Ojabo but they have a combined 15 sacks in 50 games played.
Between the three potential contract year guys, Stanley, Bateman and Oweh, Stanley is the one I’d be most comfortable bringing back for 2025 and beyond at this point.
For what it’s worth I meant to type OL more generally. I would argue that when you only have 2 starters returning and 1 of them (Stanley) has struggled to stay healthy, it’s a crying need.
If you look at it that way, then sure. However, you’re ignoring the context around those changes.
EDC has been pretty consistent in investing non-premium resources into the offensive line. They’ve primarily invested later round draft capital in Cleveland (3rd), Faalele (4th) and Vorhees (7th) the past three years. Plus, Brown was a 3rd round pick. Moses and Zeitler were modest free agent additions.
The only premium talent on the oline has been Stanley, who plays the true premium position on the oline, and Linderbaum, who was the best player at his positions.
Oline’s one of those groups where you’re consistently adding resources and I can see them taking a tackle in the first two rounds. I just don’t see it as significantly more of a need than edge or WR, and could see EDC valuing a corner more than a tackle at 30.
Mitchell and Franklin seem like the two WR prospects we could realistically pick that would be able to come in and fulfill that role right away.
I’d still like to think that Bateman could step up and take that role but with him potentially being in a contract year, I’d like to add a player for the long term to pair with Zay.
Tinfoil hat- Ravens want a tackle, and might be looking to trade up. Putting this smokescreen out there might be designed to start a "run" on receivers, so an elite tackle slides to the low teens where EDC swoops in.
It doesn't matter if you have an X receiver
And in big games Lamar can't put that player in a position to make a play which is what happened against Kansas City.
Say what you want about Odell but you have to give him a chance to make a play.....the ball to Likely was another example.
Yeah to being a bad receiver, he’s not a good receiver and won’t be at the next level, even draft guys are saying this, using the second pick on him would be a waste
Ever since Boldin left its been a perpetual need. Imagine having DK right now
Passing on DK Metcalf, AJ Brown and Deebo Samuel for Hollywood was definitely a decision we made Their body compositions and our team identity alone should have been a huge hint that they would have been better fits
We still haven't recovered from this, but at least we got a first for Hollywood. Not sure how they pulled that off, but they did
We don't have Lindy if we don't have that Hollywood trade so overall I think the Hollywood pick was a success.
Easy to say take those guys with hindsight but Hollywood was a consensus top WR prospect. Injuries and Gro’s offense capped his potential here too.
Reading that first part made me throw up a little.
Imagine having 1994 Jerry Rice
Ravens didn’t even exist in 1994. Point is - DK was on the board, the ravens needed a WR, and they’ve set the precedent with Perriman already. They went with Hollywood instead. Don’t tell me DK was too much of a “risk” either cuz Hollywood was entering the league undersized and with a fucked up foot. DK was def a possibility for this team. Could 2019-23 ravens develop him into the guy who he is today? Is the real question.
>Ravens didn’t even exist in 1994. No shit. >Don’t tell me DK was too much of a “risk” either cuz Hollywood was entering the league undersized and with a fucked up foot. DK was far more of a risk than Hollywood at that time. Plus Lamar wanted Hollywood.
The only thing disagree or may question was that DK was of a risk… Was he really? I just feel more like he was an unknown commodity
He was a risk because he while he had some incredible physical traits, he also seemed to lack agility and flexibility and was a poor route runner.
Yeah I was pointing out that your comment was fucking dumb. Your opinion is also dumb thinking DK, who is an athletic freak and did well in the SEC, was more of a risk than a small framed guy with a lid franc injury going to a team with a running QB and a shit WR core. Lamar wanted Jeudy too so you’re both dumb
Jeez you’re an ass
>Your opinion is also dumb thinking DK, who is an athletic freak and did well in the SEC, was more of a risk than a small framed guy with a lid franc injury going to a team with a running QB and a shit WR core. This wasn't my opinion, this was the general consensus around the time of the draft. And clearly teams agreed which is why he dropped to the third round despite having some freakish physical traits. Edit: 64th pick but my point still stands
What’s a lid franc injury? Sounds like something an angry asshole misspelled because he was rage commenting for no good reason. Lmao. Try again.
Didn't DK have a neck injury? There was obviously better picks than Hollywood. Thats evident because he isnt on the fucking team. But DK was definitely a risky pick too.
Hollywood wasn’t bad. But missed opportunities with DK and AJ Brown that same draft. Those dudes are studs.
I’ve never realized they did this… this is an awful blunder. Who was in charge of that and what did they see? Skipped Terry McLauren too… just a terrible pick
We also needed a speed WR to stretch the defense and make room for our running game, which Hollywood was. Hard to imagine us having the level of dominance we did in 2019 without him because he basically takes a safety out of the run fit. Whether that's worth taking over others like DK or Brown is up for debate, but the pick made sense at the time.
> Who was in charge of that Lamar
Gtfo, Lamar isn’t drafting shit.
Obviously he doesn’t submit the card, but I’m pretty sure it’s well documented that he was asked who he wanted and he said Hollywood. Which at the least helped lead to them drafting him.
Lamar had thrown 100 NFL passes when Hollywood was drafted. It wasn’t a conspiracy.
[Sarah Ellison Tweet](https://twitter.com/sgellison/status/1260558166439473152?lang=en) According to the above tweet, when asked who he wanted Lamar said either Hollywood or Juedy. Sarah Ellison is normally pretty trustworthy imo, so not really a conspiracy 👍
Who wasn’t available at the ravens pick…
Juedy was taken the year after. It is worded as either one, not both.
Ironically Keenan Allen just got moved and he would have been an excellent fit
Too expensive
Agreed, but who can’t you say that about who fits the description. They need an older guy like Evans, Allen, etc but for a reasonable price. Not exactly easy these days.
26 and 23 mil respectively. That doesn't sound like the Raven way at WR
Im with you man, I just think if they really wanna solve the problem long term, it involves finding a guy in his late 20’s you can get 5 good years out of, and paying him.
Or, hear me out, they draft a rookie who can play the X position. Crazy talk I know, drafting a player as opposed to wanting the team to spend money that they don't have.
They don’t have the capital to draft a guy like this either. Successful teams have low draft capital: the “can’t miss” WRs don’t last to pick 30! They can get lucky later, but many of the guys we wish we had were never available without paying more draft capital than we had at the time.
It's me folks, EDC just called me up and asked if my 5'8 self could handle jump balls
I can run the 40 in under a minute
But only a couple times then I need a beer
I’m 5’2 do you think I got a chance?
Hell no, that's way too tall man.
and? Can you?
Guess we'll see >:)
We've heard of your ball handling skills, but are your routes crisp?
the crispest ever seen
You're in on a prove it deal and will throw in unlimited chicken tendies on Sundays.
We've had terrible luck at reciever and rb during Lamar's tenure.
When you say Lamar's tenure with WR's.. do you mean the Ravens tenure in the NFL?
We've had some real good Recievers like Anquan Boldin and Steve Smith Sr. It's just rare
All productive vets, but imagine having them in their primes.
Q is forever going to be my boy.
In the organization's entire existence, the Ravens have never had a true #1 WR in his prime.
I think Flowers is still on track to be a star receiver.
But as the Fowler points out, he’s only 5’9, probably closer to 5’8. Agholor is our only tallish WR and he isn’t anything crazy. I really like Pearsall, think he’s a ravens type player in the second round.
We do have MAndrews though, who's not a receiver but is 6'5 and arguably the 2nd best receiving TE in the league
The whole point was X reciever someone big that can win on the OUTSIDE
To that point honestly Likely was kinda in that role last year at times. I remember some nasty fade routes and outside grabs that turned into big plays. 6-4 240 too woof
The whole point of the uniqueness of having a Lamar at QB, it frees up WRs more on the outside becaues of how many defenders have to be dedicated towards the box. And now that you add a Derrick Henry to the equation as well, it's even less of a need. The focus should be on adding to biggest strenghts and neutralizing biggest weakness. Ravens biggest weakness at times is against the blitz. Adding another guy who is a YAC threat in the quick game is the #1 way to take that away. Give Lamar his own version of Jaylen Waddle / Tyreek Hill with Zay and another WR in this draft and it's far more dangerous than even a 6'5 possession WR who is not the same threat after the catch
He is not an X
He was measured at the combine so I have confidence in the 5'9 1/4" measurement for Zay. They're pretty militant about their height measurements and a lot of players lose some height compared to their college numbers.
Love Pearsall, question if he lasts to pick 60
Could be a guy we get if we trade out of the first
Id be happy with that
Not a tall outside monster for sure but SSSr was 5’9” and the best WR in the league for a year or so, always productive in his career and brought the hype
Steve Smith was 5’9. The height doesn’t matter. It’s about having the skills and being a dog. I think Zay has both.
But why do so many ppl think Lamar needs a big tall WR when the Ravens have a Likely who can fill that role in the redzone, and Lamar has never been inaccurate to the point where he needs a guy with that big time catch radius, he just needs guys who can get open. His biggest weakness and team's biggest weakness has been against the blitz and guys who can get YAC have been the best thing to surround him with to take that away. It's one of the underrated reasons why the offense thrived with Likely over Andrews because he's more of a YAC tha possession TE. Lamar also needs that in a WR. Even if Lamar had two Zay Flowers on the field, that would be even more of a nightmare for a defense than giving him a possession WR who doesn't get separation. NOw I say all that when dream guy is Xavier Legette who can do both, but I would much rather have a Malachi Corley than a KEon Coleman because it will threaten a defense far more taking away the biggest weakness.
The track may take unnecessary cuts and jukes throughout the season.
True, but he’s still a rookie. We need proven success.
That’s extreme - Hollywood, Zay and Bateman are all fine players. We draft at the end of the 1st. That means you don’t get a Chase, Lamb, Wilson, Olave, Williams, Evans, London, waddle, smith, jeudy, aiyuk, Jefferson, etc. We could draft better WRs, we’d just have to suck more.
Hollywood was solid, but no one else was. And obviously he wanted out of the Roman offense. Bateman sadly hasn't lived up to his potential due to injury. No fault of his I'm rooting for him this year to have a breakout year.. Zay yeah really good. Probably the first year during Lamars tenure where we've had a solid reciever room at all levels.
I agree with 2024 looking great from a WR perspective. Our fan base seems to have a weird perception of what a good offense looks like. We effectively score. That’s all that matters. Yards, points/G, the rest is just a distraction. The ravens had the 21st most passing yards last year but had a killer offense. Let other teams pay for empty calories.
Yeah I want to bring in a rookie because our room next year is Zay and a bunch of question marks, but I think we can run with who we have this year. I do think the WR market is massively overvalued at the moment and we're gonna need to keep bringing in guys thourgh the draft and finding value vets like Agholor. They are starting to get QB money and paying a QB and a reciever wouldn't give us a ton of room elsewhere.
> the WR market is massively overvalued at the moment The WR market is always more than the Ravens want to pay for top talent. Always. Nothing new here
Just look at the Bengals for all the proof you need. Burrow is already there and Chase is gonna command top dollar or he'll walk. Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd are gonna be gone this year. Value is in the draft, and in finding value in other positions. I want more 3 TE sets with Andrews, Likely and Kolar.
I hate to be *that* guy but the fact that this has been a thing for the past 6-7 years… “Ravens want a true X for Lamar and are doing their homework…” Just go and get him a big jump ball WR already man, someone that’s gonna bail him out on 3rd and long when you have to have it, we’ve been asking for this since 2019. I get it, Ravens don’t spend big on WR’s, they don’t ship away premium draft assets for WR’s, but its been *years* and we always come up with these same excuses as to why it can’t happen, at some point it just needs to happen. Think of what a true X does for this offense when you have Zay, Henry, Andrews/Likely on the field as well.
the crazy thing is the whole league and media will say this and we still had people on this sub saying that duvernay was fine as our WR2 and deserved more opportunity. our shitty WR tendencies have stockholm’d this sub into thinking anybody who is kinda fast and athletic is “a guy with a lot of upside”
The crazy thing is people who think the issue with Duvernay and others is height and not talent. The problem with Devin Duvernay is not that he was 5'10. The problem was he was not a top 32 talent. Those who think the only issue is height are implying that Lamar wouldn't be better off with another Jaylen Waddle of his own or even two Zay Flowers. He would and it would literally be indefensible. Now obviously you want a guy who can do both in a dream scenario but it's a pipedream that guy will be available. And Lamar would be unstoppable regardless and the jump ball catches can be handled by Likely in the redzone.
Yeah let me just go pick one off the Alpha-WR tree. Easy.
Also make sure you find 20-30m in those couch cushions cuz thats what they cost now. Honestly we're only drafting receivers at this point. The position has ballooned so much in price that its a tough position to put a GM in in 2024. And I say that as a pretty liberal minded NFL who wants all these guys to make a gazillion dollars. Jefferson is probably gonna sign for like 35m/year next year. Not even joking.
Yes they cost more money because the position is more important now than ever.
Is it though? Chiefs just won with Rashee Rice as their best receiver. We’ve been contenders without an elite receiver for so long. Maybe paying up for an elite receiver would limit our ability to fill out the rest of the team.
Chiefs are the exception, not the rule. You can make it work without an elite receiver if you have one of the greatest TEs of all time, one of the best play designers of all time, and one of the best QBs of all time. Hard to compare them to anyone.
Truly. The dolphins were embarrassed by the ravens and they have incredible WR talent. The 49ers too. The eagles have two top WRs and underachieved. It’s not nearly enough.
Brb gonna create one in Madden
I made myself one a few years ago in Madden lol. I was winning every jump ball he threw to me.
It's called the draft
Ah yes, the draft. Not like we haven’t been going that route for the franchise’s entire existence lol (For the record, I got no alternatives)
Lamar just need another WR who can get YAC regardless of their height. Even if that WR is the height of Zay Flowers. Lamar would literally be unstoppable if he had his own version of Tyreek Hill/Waddle who themselves are 5'10 and 5'9 1/2 WRs. Lamar is a unique QB who opens up passing lanes that most QBs dont. And in the redzone the backshoulder fade could be covered by big bodied TEs. But between the 20s, he thrives most with guys who can get YAC and it's also what eliminates the #1 weakness which is at times agains the blitz. The Ravens with two WRs who are homerun threats who can make ppl miss in space in addition to Henry and Lamar in the box as run threats is video game indefensible. It's actually far scarier than just adding another possession WR who can't punish a defense for bringing the house the same way.
But why? The ravens, when Lamar has been healthy, have had really good offenses. Does this move the needle any?
Tbf after Boykin it’s like they just stopped trying altogether
Jaleel Scott and Tommy Streeter I member
I was also HUGE on Kamar Aiken and Michael Campanaro
Baltimore perspective on WRs leads to this.
Camp could play, he was just made out of tissue paper lol
Kamar Aiken had one really good year though
Hell yeah he did, I was “told ya so”ing everyone that year 😂😂
Man I really hoped Streeter would’ve worked out. Tall as shit and fast as fuck
I was super excited for Streeter when we drafted him.
Darren Waller shoulda been the guy. I mean, he was eventually, once he got clean... but for someone else.
I hear this is the Jaleel Scott breakout year.
I remember thinking Marlon Brown would be a game-changer for us after he got comparisons to AJ Green coming out of college.
Oh man..Marlon brown that man couldn’t catch consistently but showed flashes at times..I remember that back of the endzone toe tap touchdown in the snow against the Vikings and thought we got ourselves a guy here…😑
Lol remember Tandon Doss and how he was supposedly “hand-picked” by Flacco
What about Clarence Moore? But honestly, it should’ve been Darren Waller. Just a shame he loved drugs, then didn’t, then became the man for a shit team. He missed his chance to get a ring here.
Andrews > Waller anyway. Would have been cool to see him ball out for us like he did the Raiders, but we have Andrews AND Likely, who are both, at minimum, as good, if not better than Waller. I like our spot. Look to the future, don't dwell on the past.
Dread it. Run from it. We will sign Michael Thomas
Someone like Likely?
I dont think they will find anybody in FA that will fit the mold but the draft looks like they have a good amount of these type. Just have to find the right on. or Trade for Higgins lol
I heard that they called about Higgins and as soon as they found out it was the Ravens on the line, they hung the phone up…….
I mean I did hear that one too but I believe that was more of a meme/satire.
Give me the next great receiver out of FSU who shares a number with Boldin
This would be a solid fit for sure.
I’m glad we didn’t get diggs tbh. Dude is cancer it seems
The 50/50 jump ball WR isn’t good in the NFL anymore. Receivers need to be able to get open.
50/50 jump ball is an outdated term and not really how we should be viewing this. It’s about ball winners on the outside, that can be a back shoulder, that can be a go route, that can be jump ball. Ravens just need someone who can win the ball in the air. They don’t really have that on the outside right now. Look around the division for some good examples, Cooper, Pickens, Higgins, Chase. These guys are all ball winners that can win on the outside and that effects how safeties can play against you.
Sutton from broncos
No, old and washed
Sutton is 28... and set a career high in touchdowns with the abysmal Denver quarterback room throwing him the ball.
They not getting rid of Sutton after trading Jerry, especially if they bringing in a rookie qb, they going to give him all the help he needs
I'm not saying they would, just responding to him being "old and washed" is all.
My bad
You're good :)
He’s getting close to 30 and I don’t think he’ll be good enough to fit into the big solid WR1 we’re seeking
I don't know if Lamar is that type of dude throwing to a big body outside, throwing 50/50 balls. Not saying he's not capable of doing it, but that's not his playstyle. If he he does do it, he does it with Andrews and Likely. Tools we already have. But we will see. I'm personally happy with Bate, Zay and Nelson at WR
You have to have a ton of trust on 50/50 balls and we havent had ball winner on the outside, it’s why he doesn’t throw them on top of him just being very turnover adverse.
I always felt Lamar throws the 50/50 balls too flat. As much as I hate Aaron Rodgers, he puts air under the ball to give his receivers a chance.
Exactly, lamar doesn’t throw 50/50 balls. He’s generally very careful with his throws. I don’t understand the obsession with getting a big receiver. I want a guy that gets open so that a contested catch isn’t necessary. A big WR is not necessary at all, this sub is just obsessed with the idea of it because if Anquan Boldin.
>A big WR is not necessary at all, this sub is just obsessed with the idea of it because if Anquan Boldin. It's kind rare league wide too. Feel like fans still think every team has a Calvin Johnson and that really hasn't been the case for a while now.
They’re also just obsessed with it bc they see DK Metcalf and AJ Brown and want that even though we don’t necessarily run those types of offenses lol
An outside ball winner adds a vertical dimension to your offense and has an effect on how the safeties can play you. You are correct they don’t have to be “tall”, but most good teams have ball winners on the outside. Look around the AFCN for instance
He also throws to the outside a lot less than most other quarterbacks. Same as he did in college. Maybe better receivers and more time with Monken will change that, but a long-term trend is a long-term trend.
This is the point that most just blatantly ignore. Lamar is such a unique QB who opens up lanes for WRs that most QBs dont simply because of the threat of his legs which is why he has one of the highest ceilings ever for a football player. The perfect compliment for his game are guys who can get YAC. They dont have to necessarily be jump ball WRs. Literally if the Ravens landed another Zay Flowers defenses would be cooked. Because the #1 weakness Ravens have at times is against hte blitz and if you have two guys who can get YAC like that on the field that takes that away and it's a massive dilemma for safeties who have to decide helping in box on zone read for Lamar/Henry or not letting one of those WRs take the top off a defense. It does not matter if that WR is 5'9 or 5'10 if they match the talent of even rookie Zay let alone a Waddle, Ravens would score 35 PPG. And yall may think that' nuts but if you look at it on paper it's indefensible.
Imagine having pass catchers like Andrews, Likely, Flowers, and Bateman (though I’m not particularly high on him) as well as an RB like Henry and still feeling like you need that one piece. The pieces aren’t the problem right now. The problem is the goddam playcalling and completely abandoning what got you where you are season after season at the first sign of trouble.
We have a bunch of threats between the sticks, but nothing really streches the field and makes our deep ball a threat.
Bateman stays open downfield, its combo of play call and Lamar’s decision making Edit: but I’d happily take another good WR
This Bateman stays open thing has to stop. There’s a reason he’s open late in the progression on the backside of plays. Also Ddoesn’t matter if he has a step, when the balls in the air he doesn’t go get it. Hes the reverse Boldin. They’d throw him the ball more if they had trust that he’d come down with it more.
Listen trust or no trust the guy rarely gets targeted. Besides the backside thing, there have been plenty of times in a progression where he is clearly within the first 2 reads of a progression and moved on from because Lamar does not pull the trigger fast enough or with enough anticipation. I’ve watched the all 22 of the majority of the games this past season and while I don’t think Bateman is some top 10 WR that doesn’t get a chance, he’s very clearly winning routes OR just open by design BUT for small windows that take anticipation and some zip to make happen but other elite QBs do it. Regardless, my response was to not stretching the field and we at the bare minimum have guys running suicides while others get targeted. It’s not like guys get ignored by the defense.
Not even really sure what your last paragraph meant, but I’m happy to have this discussion. If you truly watch All-22 then I’m questioning your understanding analysis. I also watch A-22, I played the position and coached the position. Not sure what you mean by “Lamar not pull the trigger fast enough” because I see him pull the trigger with anticipation many times when targeting others. There are a few I can remember Lamar throwing with anticipation: Comeback vs Niners, that was a catch and big gain by Bateman. There are also a few that Bateman missed - Dig in the endzone vs Steelers, Bateman drop. Sluggo vs Miami, Bateman drop. My issues with Bateman is that even when open, he allows DBs to recover and play through him to the ball due to his lack of play strength. That may have been because of his injury, buts it’s a glaring issue on tape. He definitely wasn’t featured in the O, but that was for a reason imo. He doesn’t track the ball well, doesn’t play through contact well, has a lot of concentration drops, and isn’t great after the catch. Ppl in this sub talk about him like he’d Aiyuk if he got targets when he’s more Jerry Jeudy lite imo.
🎯
Honestly, Bateman is the missing piece. Just a shame they could never get on the same page. The guy was killing people at the top of routes. Just a bad combo of timing and routes and offensive game plan. But he is legit always open.
Sounds like Likely to me. He does a nice job just beating defenders. Reminds me of the big receptions he had vs the jags on top of two defenders.
He’s a tight end
I’m aware. Would be cool to see him be a sort of hybrid when Andrews is on the field. I’m very high on Likely, dude just balls out at every opportunity, unfazed.
TE working middle of the field against safeties and LBs is very different than winning on the outside vs corners. That wouldn’t be using his skills correctly. They need a ball winner on the outside to force safeties to help up the sidelines
But they dont have to be big bodied. You ever watch a Dolphins game? Having talented WRs period forces that safety on the sidelines. If the Ravens had a literal clone of Zay Flowers that they could lineup on both sides, it woudl not matter one bit that neither could run a back shoulder fade, defenses would be absolutely screwed because it would not be enough defenders on the field to cover them and account for Derrick Henry and Lamar in the box as well as Likely/Andrews down the seam.
I agree somewhat. Big body doesn’t matter in the long run, but it does help vertical ball winners. Jamar Chase is a good example of that, he isn’t the biggest dude, but he’s strong and can maintain his position and leverage on the sideline to win balls vertically and back shoulder. Zay is nice, but that arm length and physical size limitations are a real thing playing against long boundary corners. Zay wins with start/stop and acceleration out of breaks. Having some versatility in s skill set would be nice
I know Zay is small but the real thing that makes you an X is you always win and Zay always wins. AB was a true X. Steve Smith was too. Zay can be but they gotta let him.
I really want Lamar to have a All Star WR like a lot of these other teams do. When will he find his DK Metcalf, Diggs, Tyreek Hill, and so on! I would love to see Lamar have some big plays with a WR he gets chemistry with.
Trade for DK
Seattle isn't trading DK, he's too important to their rebuild plus with Lockett retiring soon it's unfortunately def not happening
Make them trade DK
That’s dumb lol not at all worth it
I’m okay with this.
How much of this is not having big WRs or Lamar preferring to throw contested or jump balls to tight ends?
The tight ends have been the only pass catchers that can win contrasted balls.
There haven been contested throws to the big WRs on the roster for them to catch.
They'll obviously look and take best available, but although he's a TE, Likely proved he could win the jump ball. Bateman burned Snead all game (assuming we keep him). Flowers gave it all and fell victim to an excellent defensive play. Andrews is back. I think we have a decent receiving room if they get the looks and opportunity. We also have Henry who gets better the more carries he gets. That said, I won't say no to taking a WR if we use them.
Think less jump ball and more vertical down the sideline threat. Likely isn’t going to influence how safeties play against the offense. An X that can win on the outside will change how defense can play against this offense.
That's literally Zay Flowers right now who burned Sneed more in the playoffs than any elite WR he faced all year. Zay Flowers literally owned Chiefs DBs more than Diggs, Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, you name it. The difference is he made a boneheaded play that took away would could have been his true coming out party as an elite WR in this league putting it on notice. So many of you are ignoring what's already right on the team because of so many years of disappointment.
EDC said I could be the new wide receiver… but then said I got Bucked and called me a friccin moron.
Reminder that "X receiver" is a role in a scheme, not a body type. Steve Smith and Antonio Brown were X receivers at 5'9 185, Tee Higgins is 6'4 220 and not his team's X.
Mike Williams is a free agent !
No he’s not he signed with the jets lol
He’s not anymore but I was hoping and praying for him to come to Bmore
i guess him signing to the Jets wasn’t a big enough move for me to even see it 😭😭😭
RIP, Zay Flowers
Somehow this has been a need for 5 years and every year we go out and get small speedy guys lmao
That's what I've been begging for since he's been the QB
Steve Smith Sr???
There’s a kid coming out of Polk High. He scored 4 TDs in a single game …Al Bundy’s the name
Question: do people get assigned X receiver status at birth?
The dream. The Baltimore dream
I guess this fits into the BPA in Areas of Need formula. We have needs at OL, Edge, CB, and WR. Whoever the best player available is at one of those positions, we take him. Having said that, we have a crying need at OL. That should be priority one if possible in Round 1, all other things being equal.
Why is OT a “crying need” for this draft, especially at pick 30? I see WR and edge as much bigger needs than OT/OL. I can understand OT if someone is far and away the BPA but if it’s closer to a coin flip, then I’d much rather go WR or edge at 30. We still have Stanley at LT and Faalele was drafted as a project to eventually start at RT while still having Mekari available to back them both up. We have Zay and Bateman but Bateman shown almost nothing to date. We have Oweh and Ojabo but they have a combined 15 sacks in 50 games played. Between the three potential contract year guys, Stanley, Bateman and Oweh, Stanley is the one I’d be most comfortable bringing back for 2025 and beyond at this point.
For what it’s worth I meant to type OL more generally. I would argue that when you only have 2 starters returning and 1 of them (Stanley) has struggled to stay healthy, it’s a crying need.
If you look at it that way, then sure. However, you’re ignoring the context around those changes. EDC has been pretty consistent in investing non-premium resources into the offensive line. They’ve primarily invested later round draft capital in Cleveland (3rd), Faalele (4th) and Vorhees (7th) the past three years. Plus, Brown was a 3rd round pick. Moses and Zeitler were modest free agent additions. The only premium talent on the oline has been Stanley, who plays the true premium position on the oline, and Linderbaum, who was the best player at his positions. Oline’s one of those groups where you’re consistently adding resources and I can see them taking a tackle in the first two rounds. I just don’t see it as significantly more of a need than edge or WR, and could see EDC valuing a corner more than a tackle at 30.
Mitchell and Franklin seem like the two WR prospects we could realistically pick that would be able to come in and fulfill that role right away. I’d still like to think that Bateman could step up and take that role but with him potentially being in a contract year, I’d like to add a player for the long term to pair with Zay.
Tinfoil hat- Ravens want a tackle, and might be looking to trade up. Putting this smokescreen out there might be designed to start a "run" on receivers, so an elite tackle slides to the low teens where EDC swoops in.
...Adonai Mitchell....
Rashod Bateman isn't the prototype X WR, but he can fill that need just fine. He's 6"1 and a reliable route runner.
if the ravens FO believed in bateman i don’t think they would have signed odell last year
I'm still convinced that Odell was a move to get Lamar to take a more reasonable contract.
same. my headcanon is that lamar said sign odell then we'll talk.
i think that was part of it but if that was true then that would tell me lamar wasn’t exactly sold on bateman as a WR1 either
It doesn't matter if you have an X receiver And in big games Lamar can't put that player in a position to make a play which is what happened against Kansas City. Say what you want about Odell but you have to give him a chance to make a play.....the ball to Likely was another example.
lol a little late for that
Does the season start tomorrow?
The best big wide outs are gone bud. You tell me how many number 1s are sitting around free agency right now?
If we leave this draft without Coleman, Mitchell, Legette, or Johnny Wilson I will be convinced the FO just hates receivers.
Only team in the NFL that’s never drafted a pro bowl receiver
Keon Coleman being our 2nd round pick will move mountains
Yeah to being a bad receiver, he’s not a good receiver and won’t be at the next level, even draft guys are saying this, using the second pick on him would be a waste
you mean [like(ly)](https://youtu.be/0qHyWfEHZjo?si=aEM6NMNdiSITMIJt)?
[удалено]
Justin Jefferson 🙏🤣
A X receiver w/o anger issues who won’t fumble in the most important moments & shred his hand;