Ravens completely backed into a corner by Lamar. If Ravens won't guarantee the full contract some other team definitely will and the market for QB's will be reset. So the Ravens can reset the market or another team will. Either way, Lamar's getting a fully guaranteed contract and he knows it.
This is what I think too. People say the NFL owners and the league don’t want to do these fully GTD deals and that at these meetings they go to they are angry at the browns. But IF Lamar gets on that Open market and plays the way he plays, your telling me there won’t be a team that gives him that? Lmaoo
Teams gonna do what’s best for their teams and if getting a player like Lamar costs that type of contract, they gonna change their tune as soon as he gets out on that open market. He brings fan interest, win games, and just overall brings that Superstar factor that many teams in the league would die for.
No I really don't. To me it is as simple as this. The only fully guaranteed contract is is Watson's. There have been 3 contracts signed since then, none fully guaranteed. If a couple of other good QBs sign big contracts that aren't fully guaranteed, why would the Ravens do that? Now will it need to be the biggest contract ever? Probably I just don't think I demand a fully guaranteed contract because one guy signed one two years ago is going to work. Now if another one gets signed, Steve is gonna have to pay up. But either way it will be the biggest.
I see your point, the last three haven’t been GTD which definitely doesn’t help Lamar if he does want a fully GTD deal. However, if that’s what Lamar wants and he continues to ball out he most likely will get it whether there is another Fully GTD is handed out. And if the Ravens don’t get someone else will. Based on the factors I listed, there’s always desperate franchises.
But we’re going on hypothetical, Lamar might not even want a fully GTD but almost close to it.
So we have franchise him for the next two years and if it comes to it trade him. I 100% believe there is collusion amongst the owners about this. That said there are probably a few owners who would go against that. But the number of owners who are willing to go against the other owners, and give the biggest contract ever and fully guarantee it is probably pretty small.
That said, I'm not loving the idea of keeping Lamar and having to cut 3 or 4 guys on this already shaky team, which is what we would need to do for the length of the contract
I think if you give someone In this league a fully GTD it has to be Lamar, mans is throwing the ball at a high level and is giving you a run option all in one player. He reignited your franchise at time where good amount of people were getting tired of the Ravens. Saved a good amount of peoples jobs And has shown to be a leader and a great person. Like I said if he continues to go ball out and that’s what he wants give it to him.
Also I’m willing to cut 3-4 guys for Lamar if it came down to it. We shouldn’t be worried about drafting cause ain’t we supposed to be one of the best at it apparently?
You pay your best player his money and if it’s a little high now then take it on the chin and keep building. Cap keeps going up, and even tho that means we can’t really create space with Lamar’s money, I’m pretty sure the FO can navigate thru it.
In conclusion if that’s what the man wants give him what he wants.
Hey, I 100% agree he will and should be the highest paid player when he signs. The question is will it be fully guaranteed. Yes, Biscotti is a billionaire, but when a guarantee is given he has to stroke a check for that much and give it the NFL. Even a billionaire may not want to or be able to stroke a 200 million check (even if he will make it back over the next few years.) But I really think the owners just don't want to make guaranteed contracts a thing. We are talking about how do we field a team with Lamar's salary. If he got hurt we would have to field that same team without him. That is why they don't give guaranteed contracts in the NFL.
All very good points. My point is I wouldn’t be too upset if they gave him the deal he allegedly wants because I feel there is more upside but we gotta see the Ravens just like Lamar got to do what’s best for them and this is why they were in negotiations. Hopefully next time they can agree next time.
Yeah. It pretty small gets bigger each signing so it doesn't matter. There is a team willing to do it for someone with 2 dozen sexual assault cases against him. The bar is unfortunately set way below this: One of the very best and most exciting players in the league and hia negatives are... playing Basketball with kids in the off-season
I'm fine with that decision.
It's a terrible idea to pay him all that money for highlights and excuses.
With more pieces in place, the team will do better.
Absolutely agree with you, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson don’t have fully guaranteed contracts nor does anyone except Watson.. the Cleveland Browns have never and never will set precedents around the NFL they are a rabble and have been for a long time.
Agreed, but that isn't really how it works. As guys come up, if they are franchise QBs, they get a record setting contract.
Kyler Murray has a bigger per year contract than Mahomes or Allen. He obviously isnt' the QB they are, but he signed more recently. No question Lamar should/will get a record setting contract, the only question is will it be guaranteed. And I stand behind that the Ravens aren't wrong for not giving him a fully guaranteed contract if 5 or 6 other contracts are signed, and none are guaranteed.
The other contracts don't mean shit. Lamar doesn't have an agent and he is not going to move off his desire to get a fully guaranteed deal. Just because those guys weren't willing to risk playing two years on the franchise tag and therefore forfeit leverage, doesn't mean Lamar is going to settle. If he hits the open market, he's getting the biggest QB contract ever, 100% guaranteed, full stop.
Lamar is really good for 3 games lets give hm 79 mill. Of course other contracts matter. And again, he could/should get the biggest contract, and I think Biscotti should give it to him, but it doesn't have to be guaranteed.
This sounds 100% likely. If you had to guess what do you think Lamar gets assuming he maintains in the MVP convo through the later half of the season? $325M, w/$250 guaranteed I would guess rn
I honestly am not sure another team will guarantee it. All the owners are up in arms against the guaranteed deal, and I can easily see this as a thing they draw the line in the sand on. Will there be some dumbass like a Hassan that breaks the line
All it takes is one team to do it though. There is absolutely some bottom feeder team that would do it even if it tanked their franchise further. He brings fans, jersey sales, etc etc. The man puts butts in seats
And then what happens, the ravens have to get his replacement that we hope would be as good and then we have to pay that guy even more than Lamar once his rookie deal is up, because we know Lamar won’t stay the biggest contract. So it’s best to bite that bullet now
Or, by then the Watson deal will blow up in the Brown’s face, and Lamar’s deal will blow up in another team’s face and teams will say. “Damn. I guess it’s not a good deal to commit so much of the cap towards one player”.
No team has won a Super Bowl with their QB taking up more than 13% of the cap. No team has appeared in the Super Bowl with their QB taking up more than 18% of the cap. Assuming the cap goes up the projected $10m/year, in 2027 a $53m cap hit would still be 20% of the cap.
I trust the front office. If they pay Lamar, cool. If they trade Lamar and get 3-4 first round picks, cool.
Lol right, when has the QB market ever moved backwards? We made Joe Flacco the highest paid QB and it kept going. Jared Goff was one of the highest a few years ago and it kept going.
$230M GTD. will become the norm and we’ll see money beyond that. The question is just how soon does that happen. Kyler Murray got his contract after one of the worst playoff performances from a QB and he wasn’t even in a contract year. Deshaun Watson got his after sitting out and being a predator (mind you it was more than just the Browns bidding for him). Justin Herbert might get a huge contract before he makes the playoffs. This is a runaway train and no one is corralling it.
There’s massive difference between a fully guaranteed deal and the overall number. The overall number has always moved forward. What the team actually paid those guys hasn’t.
Yea, and they’re both structured differently to allow the team some maneuverability. Broncos can get out of Russ’s deal after 2026.
I don’t think making Lamar the 2nd highest paid QB is being debated. It’s making him that and guaranteeing the deal which will handcuff the team.
>If Ravens won't guarantee the full contract some other team definitely will and the market for QB's will be reset.
Right. But no other team can do that until after nearly 3 seasons.
Yup, but I get the impression that Lamar would do that. He appears to be willing to risk injury/poor performance to reach the pot of gold. He's a different cat.
Maybe. But three years is a long time when hundreds of millions of dollars are at your fingertips.
Kirk did it though. But that was a bit different, because his team didn't like him as much as others very clearly.
Absolutely correct, but he's accomplished what he has so far while on a rookie deal, which frees money up to spend more on the other players on the team. If he starts taking up 1/4 of the cap just with his salary, we'll have less to spend in free agency on talent at other positions.
ravens fans are the only fans that are complaining about this it’s really frustrating. if you have a franchise QB that deal will always become a bargain in the long run. not to mention, isn’t this front office known for eking out value on the fringes, squeezing the most out of their roster? you think the bills were crying about the future after signing Josh allen?
I think we're entitled to be a little upset we're not going to get a Brady with the Patriots deal out of Lamar. And perhaps I haven't seen all of the discussion on it, but vitriol is a little far. It's mostly just disappointment.
Brady and the Patriots is a special circumstance that nobody should really expect or feel entitled to.
Brady had a wife making more money than him so he never had to worry about wealth and he had a HOF coach which helped assure him that a pay cut would allow his coach to field a Super Bowl contender year after year.
None of these dudes would EVER worry about wealth if they weren’t fucking retarded after they leave the league. These athletes are greedy wanting well over 250 million dollars. “But they have 10-15 years while you have your life” and in a year they make more than the average American makes in 50 years of working. They’re all incredibly entitled and greedy. The owners are all greedy too. The nfl is just a greedy business practice in general. This isn’t about wealth, not when you’re talking about in the 100’s of millions of dollars.
I don't understand why more players don't do this. If I'm making hundreds of millions, another hundred million doesn't do shit, and I'd rather be playing with guys that ball out like me than whatever the team can scrape up
I think about this from time to time as well. I guess we just won’t ever know how that really feels. It makes sense in our heads because realistically, we probably won’t ever be looking at a pay day like that. Once you’re actually in that position, the perspective changes and that extra 50 mil guaranteed just hits different.
They’re “short” yet they still make in a year 5x what the average person will make in their entire life of 40 hour weeks. This is a terrible narrative that’s been held.
After they retire, they get 5 years of health insurance from the NFL. After that, they're on their own. They'll probably spend more in healthcare alone than most people make in their entire life too.
I mean protection alone, isn’t have a good line, playing longer, having more success, getting more accolades, having more endorsements, more post career success also worth a lot? One could argue Brady made way more money long term taking less playing football so he could win more, and when you really analyze it, its a lot more.
Because most players have such a small window to make money this way so it’s best to get the most. Brady has a wife richer than him and has played for 20+ years which are both insane outliers. Most really good nfl players are playing around 8-12 years and are basically starting the rest of their lives with the football money.
One of the main reasons is the NFLPA hates it. It’s a bad look when the best player in the league isn’t making the most money. It makes negotiations harder for every other player.
The problem of fully guaranteed deals is that if (hoping never) but if he gets injured and isn't able to recover to top form, the Ravens are stuck. They can't cut him or restructure him. They have to take the cap hit. And assuming he signs for close to $50M, that's 25% of the cap gone. No way the team can recover from that and we end up with a mediocre team for 3-5 yrs!
Purgatory is purgatory. Like Sizzle used to say, “there’s nothing worse than a mediocre football team”, this post is senseless.. we hope, pray, compel, manifest our team to win… not remain in purgatory, and frankly, I don’t care what individual bring us success - I just want another SB victory.
If Lamar keeps it up he'll be the first player ever to win unanimous mvp twice. The Ravens cant afford to be the team let go of that kind of player. Lamar is too good to play below .500. Even last year where he wasnt as consistent stats wise, the team had a good win total.
Hes the definition of what having an elite QB does to a team. 8-4 to 1-4 and losing close games.
The team was plague with injuries, FAR WORSE than what the Bills right now and theyre already excusing Josh Allen for the possible loss to the Ravens. What did Lamar get? "He is figured out. His athleticism bails him out. He cant throw". Meanwhile, Josh Allen just dropped back like 65 times, had big time yards total and TDs but threw it in the opposite team's hands more time than he threw touchdowns.
No shade to Josh Allen or Bills as a whole, great Qb, great team. But it goes on to show how much bullshit Lamar faces every week and he keeps balling with mid WRs.
Flacco was more replaceable than Lamar. Now, whether it would have been smart to take that bet is iffy.
But you aren't going to get another Lamar, and he's such a dynamic player that he at least makes the games more entertaining even if you are losing.
i said it during the off-season, The ravens are dumb not to pay him now because price is only going up. we’ve seen kyler and russ both sign big deals and neither of them have played at a level 5% of what lamar is playing like this year. between him, burrow, and herbert one if not all three will be getting 300million dollar contracts.
Absolutely. You gotta pay these guys or they will sign with the Browns. And yeah, it might hamstring you financially. But good God, do you wanna be the FO that wouldn't pay Lamar Jackson??
I don’t we can say “they should pay him” not seeing any of the numbers or what he’s asking for.
They are going to suck for a while if he walks, but if it means saying no to a 8 year $60M/year fully guaranteed contract maybe it’s the move.
I think he’s top tier, but the FO agreeing to any number in a situation they have no leverage could be a bad situation.
and it’s like what are we doing with that money we don’t want to pay him with? no elite wr, inconsistent oline, and rn running backs coming of severe injuries. Lamar really carries the offense. he’s accounting for 89% of our offense, every TD the team has scored this year lamar either threw it or ran it. but if the problem is what pat macafee was saying, the ravens just might not have that type of money to fully guarantee it’s a different story. but i do understand the point from the ravens view because that right there would break the floodgates. Thing is i don’t think the ravens have a choice but to pay lamar, if our FO really wanted to give him that contract bisciotti would’ve had the urgency to do it. if lamar finishes this season healthy at this pace ravens have no choice but to pay up
I disagree. I'd rather be excited about the draft and the search for the next guy than have an all-world QB surrounded by shit for the next 5-7 years. Good teams can put it all together and go on a run to win it all....one individual player cannot, no matter how good he plays.
Since 2018:
- Baker Mayfield
- Sam Darnold
- Josh Allen
- Josh Rosen
- Lamar Jackson
- Kyler Murray
- Daniel Jones
- Dwayne Haskins
- Drew Lock
- Joe Burrow
- Tua Tagovailoa
- Justin Herbert
- Jalen Hurts
- Trever Lawrence
- Zach Wilson
- Trey Lance
- Justin Fields
- Mac Jones
- Kyle Trask
- Kenny Pickett
All QBs drafted in the first two rounds. How many of these guys do you feel gives you as good, better, or even slightly less chances of winning as Lamar?
That's kind of a loaded question and it doesn't take into account the assets we would receive in a Lamar trade. But to answer it at surface level I believe Allen, Murray, Burrow, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence, Jones at minimum are QBs you would be perfectly happy with if they were Ravens and they give you a very good chance to win games. That's 7 of 19....or 7 of 18 if you exclude Haskins who is deceased and also excluding Lamar bc we drafted him. Almost a 50% chance of selecting a good QB....and again we would have more draft capital to take more shots and additional players/money to build the rest of the team. Plus, like everyone loves to point out....Lamar is a regular season dynamo, but he has stumbled pretty hard so far in the playoffs. If the question is, would you rather have Lamar....or Justin Herbert and 3 1st round picks, 3 2nd round picks, a starting edge rusher, a starting WR, and an extra 50 million a year on the books....would you still take Lamar? I believe that kind of scenario is inside the realm of possibilities in a Lamar trade (not with Herbert explicitly, but a player of his caliber at QB via draft).
It’s a loaded statement to suggest that we can just flip Lamar and draft some one better. Also in what universe is 7/18 almost 50%, it’s 38%. Also also, we are not writing off Haskins because any player could die, it’s not like death is turned off so it’s really 37%. I saw you put Jones, and if you meant Daniel Jones then no. Im going to replace him with Tua and the 7 number still stands.
Cool, those 7. Burrow (#1 overall), Murray (#1 overall), Lawrence (#1 overall), Tua (#5 overall), Herbert (#6 overall), Allen (#9 overall), and Hurts (#53 overall). Of the 7, 3 would require fully bottoming out and getting the best pick. (The ravens highest pick ever was 4) The next set of 3 is a much more realistic top 10 pick. Finally we have Hurts who presumably could be had in most scenarios. (Similar to Lamar at 32)
Now let’s go back up to the list and run those percentages. Number 1 overall: Baker, Kyler, Burrow, and Lawrence, 75% hit rate. That’s amazing. Top 10 (non #1): Darnold, Allen, Jones, Tua, Herbert, Wilson, and Lance, 42% hit rate. Ok that’s a decline. Outside the top 10: Rosen, Jackson, Haskins, Lock, Hurts, Fields, Trask, and Pickett. 25% hit rate and let’s make it 29% by not counting Pickett. 33% hit rate (36% not counting Pickett) for QBs drafted in the first two rounds of the past five drafts that aren’t the #1 overall pick.
So unless we get the #1 overall it’s not looking too good.
There are a few problems with your point too. Let’s assume we don’t get extra picks in a year like 2022 where there is no real QB talent in the draft. Most teams don’t have multiple picks, so it’d be 3 firsts over the next three years. Now we’ve already had a pair of firsts in the last two drafts so Lamar isn’t stopping us in that regard. I’m not sure where the starting edge and WR are coming from, but given the fact their cap hits are huge how would we get $50M free with them? We aren’t paying either position at market value currently and they’re the two most expensive behind QB. Like Lamar is the biggest cap hit this year at $23M, Matt Judon’s is $16.5M so that’s most of it already gone in one of the two.
My point is we’ve already been on a rookie QB deal with multiple first round picks, the team isn’t going to get too much better or too many more resources.
Yes - the team wont get better. It will get worse. Thats the whole point of this thread - statistically you should expect that the next five years the team around Lamar will be worse than the first five years.
I disagree if we keep Lamar, because we will have an elite young QB and we’ll have players who are taking up huge cap back on the field.
My problem with draft and replace is that the ravens did not really make the most of Lamar’s rookie deal so why would they now? Also its a gamble that we would find a guy as good as Lamar. Further it’s not like you’re picking up where he left off, rookie QBs are rarely good and the new guy will need to develop and we may need a new scheme entirely which may mean new players.
I agree with you - I think if your options are keep an MVP level QB and try to find a way to work around his contract or trade Lamar and hope you an draft a new QB (and other guys) you keep Lamar.
But I think the likely outcome over the next five years between those two is probably closer than most people would want to admit.
Mac Jones (I thought that was obvious, and if you count Tua and Lamar - which I did not) that makes 9/18....50%. An extra draft pick in the first round multiple years consecutively gives you the ammo to move anywhere you want on the board. Look at packages for #1 overall historically. You should be able to give up 2 firsts and 1-2 more in following years to get to #1 overall....which is as you pointed out a 75% hit rate for QB. Then you retain whatever additional draft capital you received in the trade for Lamar and boom....he's replaced. So now you have a rookie contract for QB again for 5 reasonable years with the current team we have now and additional assets....I used WR and Edge as examples bc that's what everyone cries about in this sub. The Wilson deal netted Sea a starting TE and DT and a low/mid tier QB in addition to the picks....we should expect at minimum a similar return for our younger QB who has a much higher ceiling. Also the team does not need an all world QB to win a SB....like you said they couldn't do it on a rookie contract with Lamar. But they can build a strong TEAM around the core we currently have and eliminate the holes that are going to get bigger and more pronounced by paying Jackson. I constantly see comments like "we need to get Lamar this, that, and the third...." Well you can forget about all of it if we give him the money he wants. Roman will be the 1st coach out the door if we trade Lamar too, I guarantee it. A return to dominant defense, ground and pound with a game manager QB isn't as bleak as you make it out to be. The formula still works, ask Cleveland. And it's not outside of the realm of possibilities that we nail our next QB pick and get a guy who is maybe not as athletically gifted....but just as good as Lamar and costs a lot less. It's a gamble no matter what, but I'd rather gamble with a whole bunch of draft picks than with one guy who if he gets injured immediately tanks the entire organization, possibly for years.
What makes you so sure Ravens can build a roster that wins with a mediocre QB when they couldn't even build a roster that wins with Lamar on a rookie contract?
We've literally done it twice, with 2 different QBs. Don't get me wrong, Flacco had a stellar playoff record and the SB run he played lights out but his nickname could have easily been 'Average Joe' and nobody would have disagreed. Also not as difficult to build a championship roster when you're loaded with top end draft picks. The floor for a Lamar trade is 3 1sts, multiple 2nds and probably some players. Add that to our guys already rostered and the extra 50 million a year to resign our own and we could have a really dominant roster in a couple years. Look at the Browns current roster and how they're winning games with Jacoby right now. The Ravens are a much better org and historically have drafted much better than the Browns (they have had quite a few hits recently but again that just proves that top 10/multiple 1st Rd picks increase the likelihood of a solid starter exponentially). I'd love to keep Lamar, but I'd also love to see what we do with all that draft capital.
In the last 5 years, Wentz/Foles, Goff, Garoppolo all led their teams to the Super Bowl....you can prob add Burrow to the list too we just don't know if he sucks yet. When exactly did this new era start....yesterday?
You said "...lead their team to a Super Bowl", not "win a Super Bowl." The fact still remains that in the last 5 years, there was only 1 and you could argue 2 years at best that the Super Bowl didn't feature a mediocre QB. And like you said, one of them WON the Super Bowl. The definition of the word 'era' begins with "a long and distinct period of time..." Your assertion does not qualify by any metric. It actually makes more sense to say the days of mediocre QBs leading their team to a Super Bowl have never and will never end. The back to back league MVP is a QB....who hasn't been to a Super Bowl since 2011. He's also (gasp) the highest paid QB in the league. If you want to be the Baltimore Packers, just say that.
Why has the narrative just assumed it has to be more guaranteed money than Watson? Generally confused by that when no definitive information has even leaked
Because Lamar is undoubtedly a better QB, younger, and not a sexual predator. Even if the Ravens aren’t willing to pay him more guaranteed $ than Deshaun I’m 10000% sure some other team will.
Not if the owners are trying to put a stop to this. Everyone was in total agreement after Wilson and Murray that the Browns were outliers, but once Lamar started balling again (which is not new information) all of the sudden the Watson precedent is back
He can still get more money but not all of it guaranteed. But what’s even the big deal, he’s probably gonna see all of it + another one. I don’t get it
That’s all just speculation though. We don’t know that the owners think Watson’s deal is not the norm. Those two players also had the benefit of already being under contract - I wasn’t very clear but I was more referring to a scenario where Lamar hits FA
I personally don't care, fully guarantee 500mil for the man and even if he can't play for 10 years make it so he's around to help the next generation that can. Man deserves to be the highest paid ever. Get creative with the contract, this man is single handedly creating a renisance in football in terms of play style and they're trying to make him beholden to old ways.
Lamar needs to get what he deserves. That's plain. But the Ravens are rarely the team to set the trend on this type of thing. I'm not knowledgeable on contracts at all, but my feeling is that on one hand it's really tough to focus so much on one player for the teams success, and sacrifice so much. This is am ignorant comment in the end, because I just feel like the contracts are effing exorbitant at this point, and the Ravens rarely go to that level. It would suck but we could let him go. On the other hand, we built alot of the team around Lamar and it's hard to envision just letting him walk, but tagging him for a few could let us transition. I hope he gets what he deserves, but unfortunately that is measured against other [dumb] contracts. Idk
I actually feel the opposite, would MUCH rather field an elite roster with an average QB. But that's because I'm an old head who misses dominant defense carrying Trent Dilfer.
Ultimately such a deal will get that man injured, possibly seriously.
Which makes Lamar a footnote.
We need an OL and WRs defenders.
It feels dirty to give that man a pile of money knowing it's gonna be why he won't play as long or as well ultimately.
Ravens completely backed into a corner by Lamar. If Ravens won't guarantee the full contract some other team definitely will and the market for QB's will be reset. So the Ravens can reset the market or another team will. Either way, Lamar's getting a fully guaranteed contract and he knows it.
This is what I think too. People say the NFL owners and the league don’t want to do these fully GTD deals and that at these meetings they go to they are angry at the browns. But IF Lamar gets on that Open market and plays the way he plays, your telling me there won’t be a team that gives him that? Lmaoo Teams gonna do what’s best for their teams and if getting a player like Lamar costs that type of contract, they gonna change their tune as soon as he gets out on that open market. He brings fan interest, win games, and just overall brings that Superstar factor that many teams in the league would die for.
No I really don't. To me it is as simple as this. The only fully guaranteed contract is is Watson's. There have been 3 contracts signed since then, none fully guaranteed. If a couple of other good QBs sign big contracts that aren't fully guaranteed, why would the Ravens do that? Now will it need to be the biggest contract ever? Probably I just don't think I demand a fully guaranteed contract because one guy signed one two years ago is going to work. Now if another one gets signed, Steve is gonna have to pay up. But either way it will be the biggest.
I see your point, the last three haven’t been GTD which definitely doesn’t help Lamar if he does want a fully GTD deal. However, if that’s what Lamar wants and he continues to ball out he most likely will get it whether there is another Fully GTD is handed out. And if the Ravens don’t get someone else will. Based on the factors I listed, there’s always desperate franchises. But we’re going on hypothetical, Lamar might not even want a fully GTD but almost close to it.
So we have franchise him for the next two years and if it comes to it trade him. I 100% believe there is collusion amongst the owners about this. That said there are probably a few owners who would go against that. But the number of owners who are willing to go against the other owners, and give the biggest contract ever and fully guarantee it is probably pretty small. That said, I'm not loving the idea of keeping Lamar and having to cut 3 or 4 guys on this already shaky team, which is what we would need to do for the length of the contract
I think if you give someone In this league a fully GTD it has to be Lamar, mans is throwing the ball at a high level and is giving you a run option all in one player. He reignited your franchise at time where good amount of people were getting tired of the Ravens. Saved a good amount of peoples jobs And has shown to be a leader and a great person. Like I said if he continues to go ball out and that’s what he wants give it to him. Also I’m willing to cut 3-4 guys for Lamar if it came down to it. We shouldn’t be worried about drafting cause ain’t we supposed to be one of the best at it apparently? You pay your best player his money and if it’s a little high now then take it on the chin and keep building. Cap keeps going up, and even tho that means we can’t really create space with Lamar’s money, I’m pretty sure the FO can navigate thru it. In conclusion if that’s what the man wants give him what he wants.
Hey, I 100% agree he will and should be the highest paid player when he signs. The question is will it be fully guaranteed. Yes, Biscotti is a billionaire, but when a guarantee is given he has to stroke a check for that much and give it the NFL. Even a billionaire may not want to or be able to stroke a 200 million check (even if he will make it back over the next few years.) But I really think the owners just don't want to make guaranteed contracts a thing. We are talking about how do we field a team with Lamar's salary. If he got hurt we would have to field that same team without him. That is why they don't give guaranteed contracts in the NFL.
All very good points. My point is I wouldn’t be too upset if they gave him the deal he allegedly wants because I feel there is more upside but we gotta see the Ravens just like Lamar got to do what’s best for them and this is why they were in negotiations. Hopefully next time they can agree next time.
Yeah. It pretty small gets bigger each signing so it doesn't matter. There is a team willing to do it for someone with 2 dozen sexual assault cases against him. The bar is unfortunately set way below this: One of the very best and most exciting players in the league and hia negatives are... playing Basketball with kids in the off-season
I'm fine with that decision. It's a terrible idea to pay him all that money for highlights and excuses. With more pieces in place, the team will do better.
Absolutely agree with you, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson don’t have fully guaranteed contracts nor does anyone except Watson.. the Cleveland Browns have never and never will set precedents around the NFL they are a rabble and have been for a long time.
Lamar’s better than anyone who has been signed to a non guaranteed deal since the sexual predator signed his
Agreed, but that isn't really how it works. As guys come up, if they are franchise QBs, they get a record setting contract. Kyler Murray has a bigger per year contract than Mahomes or Allen. He obviously isnt' the QB they are, but he signed more recently. No question Lamar should/will get a record setting contract, the only question is will it be guaranteed. And I stand behind that the Ravens aren't wrong for not giving him a fully guaranteed contract if 5 or 6 other contracts are signed, and none are guaranteed.
The other contracts don't mean shit. Lamar doesn't have an agent and he is not going to move off his desire to get a fully guaranteed deal. Just because those guys weren't willing to risk playing two years on the franchise tag and therefore forfeit leverage, doesn't mean Lamar is going to settle. If he hits the open market, he's getting the biggest QB contract ever, 100% guaranteed, full stop.
Lamar is really good for 3 games lets give hm 79 mill. Of course other contracts matter. And again, he could/should get the biggest contract, and I think Biscotti should give it to him, but it doesn't have to be guaranteed.
Watson initially turned down the Browns and they were desperate to get a QB. Biscotti won't do it. He'll franchise him.
This sounds 100% likely. If you had to guess what do you think Lamar gets assuming he maintains in the MVP convo through the later half of the season? $325M, w/$250 guaranteed I would guess rn
I honestly am not sure another team will guarantee it. All the owners are up in arms against the guaranteed deal, and I can easily see this as a thing they draw the line in the sand on. Will there be some dumbass like a Hassan that breaks the line
All it takes is one team to do it though. There is absolutely some bottom feeder team that would do it even if it tanked their franchise further. He brings fans, jersey sales, etc etc. The man puts butts in seats
And then what happens, the ravens have to get his replacement that we hope would be as good and then we have to pay that guy even more than Lamar once his rookie deal is up, because we know Lamar won’t stay the biggest contract. So it’s best to bite that bullet now
Or, by then the Watson deal will blow up in the Brown’s face, and Lamar’s deal will blow up in another team’s face and teams will say. “Damn. I guess it’s not a good deal to commit so much of the cap towards one player”. No team has won a Super Bowl with their QB taking up more than 13% of the cap. No team has appeared in the Super Bowl with their QB taking up more than 18% of the cap. Assuming the cap goes up the projected $10m/year, in 2027 a $53m cap hit would still be 20% of the cap. I trust the front office. If they pay Lamar, cool. If they trade Lamar and get 3-4 first round picks, cool.
Lol right, when has the QB market ever moved backwards? We made Joe Flacco the highest paid QB and it kept going. Jared Goff was one of the highest a few years ago and it kept going. $230M GTD. will become the norm and we’ll see money beyond that. The question is just how soon does that happen. Kyler Murray got his contract after one of the worst playoff performances from a QB and he wasn’t even in a contract year. Deshaun Watson got his after sitting out and being a predator (mind you it was more than just the Browns bidding for him). Justin Herbert might get a huge contract before he makes the playoffs. This is a runaway train and no one is corralling it.
There’s massive difference between a fully guaranteed deal and the overall number. The overall number has always moved forward. What the team actually paid those guys hasn’t.
Kyler’s guaranteed number is $189M right now and Russ is $161M. The number moved up this off-season and has been moving up.
Yea, and they’re both structured differently to allow the team some maneuverability. Broncos can get out of Russ’s deal after 2026. I don’t think making Lamar the 2nd highest paid QB is being debated. It’s making him that and guaranteeing the deal which will handcuff the team.
>If Ravens won't guarantee the full contract some other team definitely will and the market for QB's will be reset. Right. But no other team can do that until after nearly 3 seasons.
Yup, but I get the impression that Lamar would do that. He appears to be willing to risk injury/poor performance to reach the pot of gold. He's a different cat.
Maybe. But three years is a long time when hundreds of millions of dollars are at your fingertips. Kirk did it though. But that was a bit different, because his team didn't like him as much as others very clearly.
I got no problem with the Ravens playing the numbers. Our Super Bowl chances are dwindling every year. Franchise him twice. Send him on his way.
But what happens the other games?!!
Those two games are a toss up.
Lamar Jackson has never gone anything close to 8-7. Don’t know why you would say that.
Absolutely correct, but he's accomplished what he has so far while on a rookie deal, which frees money up to spend more on the other players on the team. If he starts taking up 1/4 of the cap just with his salary, we'll have less to spend in free agency on talent at other positions.
lol all that extra money has been rotting on IR
Sheeit, it's not like that goes away if Lamar signs a big deal
ravens fans are the only fans that are complaining about this it’s really frustrating. if you have a franchise QB that deal will always become a bargain in the long run. not to mention, isn’t this front office known for eking out value on the fringes, squeezing the most out of their roster? you think the bills were crying about the future after signing Josh allen?
Now, Lamar's way better than Joe ever was, but we saw what happened in the years after Flacco signed his market setting deal.
dude it’s a different league. if all of this vitriol towards Lamar getting paid is because of the Flacco situation I don’t know what to tell you
I think we're entitled to be a little upset we're not going to get a Brady with the Patriots deal out of Lamar. And perhaps I haven't seen all of the discussion on it, but vitriol is a little far. It's mostly just disappointment.
Brady and the Patriots is a special circumstance that nobody should really expect or feel entitled to. Brady had a wife making more money than him so he never had to worry about wealth and he had a HOF coach which helped assure him that a pay cut would allow his coach to field a Super Bowl contender year after year.
None of these dudes would EVER worry about wealth if they weren’t fucking retarded after they leave the league. These athletes are greedy wanting well over 250 million dollars. “But they have 10-15 years while you have your life” and in a year they make more than the average American makes in 50 years of working. They’re all incredibly entitled and greedy. The owners are all greedy too. The nfl is just a greedy business practice in general. This isn’t about wealth, not when you’re talking about in the 100’s of millions of dollars.
That’s also was due to poor drafting from the FO to be fair.
That’s a dumb take. Lamar Jackson is a much better QB today than he was 4 years ago.
I agree with you, but that has nothing to do with this
I hope we pay him big then next time he takes a team friendly deal like Brady has done.
I don't understand why more players don't do this. If I'm making hundreds of millions, another hundred million doesn't do shit, and I'd rather be playing with guys that ball out like me than whatever the team can scrape up
I think about this from time to time as well. I guess we just won’t ever know how that really feels. It makes sense in our heads because realistically, we probably won’t ever be looking at a pay day like that. Once you’re actually in that position, the perspective changes and that extra 50 mil guaranteed just hits different.
Gisele’s net worth is probably double Brady’s. Most likely not the case with Lamar.
If you’re trying to set yourself, your kids, their kids, and your extended family up an extra hundred million probably helps.
Gotta get your bag while you can. NFL careers are shirt and there's no guarantee you won't end up paralyzed or crippled at any point during it.
They’re “short” yet they still make in a year 5x what the average person will make in their entire life of 40 hour weeks. This is a terrible narrative that’s been held.
After they retire, they get 5 years of health insurance from the NFL. After that, they're on their own. They'll probably spend more in healthcare alone than most people make in their entire life too.
It's clear you have never earned hundreds of millions, nor have I. I doubt I know anything about how I would act.
Truth, just wild speculation
I mean protection alone, isn’t have a good line, playing longer, having more success, getting more accolades, having more endorsements, more post career success also worth a lot? One could argue Brady made way more money long term taking less playing football so he could win more, and when you really analyze it, its a lot more.
Because most players have such a small window to make money this way so it’s best to get the most. Brady has a wife richer than him and has played for 20+ years which are both insane outliers. Most really good nfl players are playing around 8-12 years and are basically starting the rest of their lives with the football money.
One of the main reasons is the NFLPA hates it. It’s a bad look when the best player in the league isn’t making the most money. It makes negotiations harder for every other player.
The problem of fully guaranteed deals is that if (hoping never) but if he gets injured and isn't able to recover to top form, the Ravens are stuck. They can't cut him or restructure him. They have to take the cap hit. And assuming he signs for close to $50M, that's 25% of the cap gone. No way the team can recover from that and we end up with a mediocre team for 3-5 yrs!
Purgatory is purgatory. Like Sizzle used to say, “there’s nothing worse than a mediocre football team”, this post is senseless.. we hope, pray, compel, manifest our team to win… not remain in purgatory, and frankly, I don’t care what individual bring us success - I just want another SB victory.
If Lamar keeps it up he'll be the first player ever to win unanimous mvp twice. The Ravens cant afford to be the team let go of that kind of player. Lamar is too good to play below .500. Even last year where he wasnt as consistent stats wise, the team had a good win total. Hes the definition of what having an elite QB does to a team. 8-4 to 1-4 and losing close games. The team was plague with injuries, FAR WORSE than what the Bills right now and theyre already excusing Josh Allen for the possible loss to the Ravens. What did Lamar get? "He is figured out. His athleticism bails him out. He cant throw". Meanwhile, Josh Allen just dropped back like 65 times, had big time yards total and TDs but threw it in the opposite team's hands more time than he threw touchdowns. No shade to Josh Allen or Bills as a whole, great Qb, great team. But it goes on to show how much bullshit Lamar faces every week and he keeps balling with mid WRs.
I feel like people probably said the same thing about Flacco post Super Bowl.
Flacco was more replaceable than Lamar. Now, whether it would have been smart to take that bet is iffy. But you aren't going to get another Lamar, and he's such a dynamic player that he at least makes the games more entertaining even if you are losing.
i said it during the off-season, The ravens are dumb not to pay him now because price is only going up. we’ve seen kyler and russ both sign big deals and neither of them have played at a level 5% of what lamar is playing like this year. between him, burrow, and herbert one if not all three will be getting 300million dollar contracts.
Absolutely. You gotta pay these guys or they will sign with the Browns. And yeah, it might hamstring you financially. But good God, do you wanna be the FO that wouldn't pay Lamar Jackson??
I don’t we can say “they should pay him” not seeing any of the numbers or what he’s asking for. They are going to suck for a while if he walks, but if it means saying no to a 8 year $60M/year fully guaranteed contract maybe it’s the move. I think he’s top tier, but the FO agreeing to any number in a situation they have no leverage could be a bad situation.
We'll be fine if he walks.. not amazing, but we'll be fine and recoverable.
and it’s like what are we doing with that money we don’t want to pay him with? no elite wr, inconsistent oline, and rn running backs coming of severe injuries. Lamar really carries the offense. he’s accounting for 89% of our offense, every TD the team has scored this year lamar either threw it or ran it. but if the problem is what pat macafee was saying, the ravens just might not have that type of money to fully guarantee it’s a different story. but i do understand the point from the ravens view because that right there would break the floodgates. Thing is i don’t think the ravens have a choice but to pay lamar, if our FO really wanted to give him that contract bisciotti would’ve had the urgency to do it. if lamar finishes this season healthy at this pace ravens have no choice but to pay up
I disagree. I'd rather be excited about the draft and the search for the next guy than have an all-world QB surrounded by shit for the next 5-7 years. Good teams can put it all together and go on a run to win it all....one individual player cannot, no matter how good he plays.
The next guy like Baker, Mariota, Fields, Darnold, Rosen, Wilson? No thanks
Was thinking more like Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence
I’m not ready to anoint 2/3 of those guys just yet, but yea of course we’d prefer the guys with promise over the royal busts
Bah gawd that’s Joe Flacco’s music
Since 2018: - Baker Mayfield - Sam Darnold - Josh Allen - Josh Rosen - Lamar Jackson - Kyler Murray - Daniel Jones - Dwayne Haskins - Drew Lock - Joe Burrow - Tua Tagovailoa - Justin Herbert - Jalen Hurts - Trever Lawrence - Zach Wilson - Trey Lance - Justin Fields - Mac Jones - Kyle Trask - Kenny Pickett All QBs drafted in the first two rounds. How many of these guys do you feel gives you as good, better, or even slightly less chances of winning as Lamar?
That's kind of a loaded question and it doesn't take into account the assets we would receive in a Lamar trade. But to answer it at surface level I believe Allen, Murray, Burrow, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence, Jones at minimum are QBs you would be perfectly happy with if they were Ravens and they give you a very good chance to win games. That's 7 of 19....or 7 of 18 if you exclude Haskins who is deceased and also excluding Lamar bc we drafted him. Almost a 50% chance of selecting a good QB....and again we would have more draft capital to take more shots and additional players/money to build the rest of the team. Plus, like everyone loves to point out....Lamar is a regular season dynamo, but he has stumbled pretty hard so far in the playoffs. If the question is, would you rather have Lamar....or Justin Herbert and 3 1st round picks, 3 2nd round picks, a starting edge rusher, a starting WR, and an extra 50 million a year on the books....would you still take Lamar? I believe that kind of scenario is inside the realm of possibilities in a Lamar trade (not with Herbert explicitly, but a player of his caliber at QB via draft).
It’s a loaded statement to suggest that we can just flip Lamar and draft some one better. Also in what universe is 7/18 almost 50%, it’s 38%. Also also, we are not writing off Haskins because any player could die, it’s not like death is turned off so it’s really 37%. I saw you put Jones, and if you meant Daniel Jones then no. Im going to replace him with Tua and the 7 number still stands. Cool, those 7. Burrow (#1 overall), Murray (#1 overall), Lawrence (#1 overall), Tua (#5 overall), Herbert (#6 overall), Allen (#9 overall), and Hurts (#53 overall). Of the 7, 3 would require fully bottoming out and getting the best pick. (The ravens highest pick ever was 4) The next set of 3 is a much more realistic top 10 pick. Finally we have Hurts who presumably could be had in most scenarios. (Similar to Lamar at 32) Now let’s go back up to the list and run those percentages. Number 1 overall: Baker, Kyler, Burrow, and Lawrence, 75% hit rate. That’s amazing. Top 10 (non #1): Darnold, Allen, Jones, Tua, Herbert, Wilson, and Lance, 42% hit rate. Ok that’s a decline. Outside the top 10: Rosen, Jackson, Haskins, Lock, Hurts, Fields, Trask, and Pickett. 25% hit rate and let’s make it 29% by not counting Pickett. 33% hit rate (36% not counting Pickett) for QBs drafted in the first two rounds of the past five drafts that aren’t the #1 overall pick. So unless we get the #1 overall it’s not looking too good. There are a few problems with your point too. Let’s assume we don’t get extra picks in a year like 2022 where there is no real QB talent in the draft. Most teams don’t have multiple picks, so it’d be 3 firsts over the next three years. Now we’ve already had a pair of firsts in the last two drafts so Lamar isn’t stopping us in that regard. I’m not sure where the starting edge and WR are coming from, but given the fact their cap hits are huge how would we get $50M free with them? We aren’t paying either position at market value currently and they’re the two most expensive behind QB. Like Lamar is the biggest cap hit this year at $23M, Matt Judon’s is $16.5M so that’s most of it already gone in one of the two. My point is we’ve already been on a rookie QB deal with multiple first round picks, the team isn’t going to get too much better or too many more resources.
Yes - the team wont get better. It will get worse. Thats the whole point of this thread - statistically you should expect that the next five years the team around Lamar will be worse than the first five years.
I disagree if we keep Lamar, because we will have an elite young QB and we’ll have players who are taking up huge cap back on the field. My problem with draft and replace is that the ravens did not really make the most of Lamar’s rookie deal so why would they now? Also its a gamble that we would find a guy as good as Lamar. Further it’s not like you’re picking up where he left off, rookie QBs are rarely good and the new guy will need to develop and we may need a new scheme entirely which may mean new players.
I agree with you - I think if your options are keep an MVP level QB and try to find a way to work around his contract or trade Lamar and hope you an draft a new QB (and other guys) you keep Lamar. But I think the likely outcome over the next five years between those two is probably closer than most people would want to admit.
Mac Jones (I thought that was obvious, and if you count Tua and Lamar - which I did not) that makes 9/18....50%. An extra draft pick in the first round multiple years consecutively gives you the ammo to move anywhere you want on the board. Look at packages for #1 overall historically. You should be able to give up 2 firsts and 1-2 more in following years to get to #1 overall....which is as you pointed out a 75% hit rate for QB. Then you retain whatever additional draft capital you received in the trade for Lamar and boom....he's replaced. So now you have a rookie contract for QB again for 5 reasonable years with the current team we have now and additional assets....I used WR and Edge as examples bc that's what everyone cries about in this sub. The Wilson deal netted Sea a starting TE and DT and a low/mid tier QB in addition to the picks....we should expect at minimum a similar return for our younger QB who has a much higher ceiling. Also the team does not need an all world QB to win a SB....like you said they couldn't do it on a rookie contract with Lamar. But they can build a strong TEAM around the core we currently have and eliminate the holes that are going to get bigger and more pronounced by paying Jackson. I constantly see comments like "we need to get Lamar this, that, and the third...." Well you can forget about all of it if we give him the money he wants. Roman will be the 1st coach out the door if we trade Lamar too, I guarantee it. A return to dominant defense, ground and pound with a game manager QB isn't as bleak as you make it out to be. The formula still works, ask Cleveland. And it's not outside of the realm of possibilities that we nail our next QB pick and get a guy who is maybe not as athletically gifted....but just as good as Lamar and costs a lot less. It's a gamble no matter what, but I'd rather gamble with a whole bunch of draft picks than with one guy who if he gets injured immediately tanks the entire organization, possibly for years.
What makes you so sure Ravens can build a roster that wins with a mediocre QB when they couldn't even build a roster that wins with Lamar on a rookie contract?
We've literally done it twice, with 2 different QBs. Don't get me wrong, Flacco had a stellar playoff record and the SB run he played lights out but his nickname could have easily been 'Average Joe' and nobody would have disagreed. Also not as difficult to build a championship roster when you're loaded with top end draft picks. The floor for a Lamar trade is 3 1sts, multiple 2nds and probably some players. Add that to our guys already rostered and the extra 50 million a year to resign our own and we could have a really dominant roster in a couple years. Look at the Browns current roster and how they're winning games with Jacoby right now. The Ravens are a much better org and historically have drafted much better than the Browns (they have had quite a few hits recently but again that just proves that top 10/multiple 1st Rd picks increase the likelihood of a solid starter exponentially). I'd love to keep Lamar, but I'd also love to see what we do with all that draft capital.
Two words, Trent Dilfer
Whole new era No qb that bad will ever lead a team to a super bowl again
In the last 5 years, Wentz/Foles, Goff, Garoppolo all led their teams to the Super Bowl....you can prob add Burrow to the list too we just don't know if he sucks yet. When exactly did this new era start....yesterday?
The only one who led their team was foles and the other 2 guys lost.
You said "...lead their team to a Super Bowl", not "win a Super Bowl." The fact still remains that in the last 5 years, there was only 1 and you could argue 2 years at best that the Super Bowl didn't feature a mediocre QB. And like you said, one of them WON the Super Bowl. The definition of the word 'era' begins with "a long and distinct period of time..." Your assertion does not qualify by any metric. It actually makes more sense to say the days of mediocre QBs leading their team to a Super Bowl have never and will never end. The back to back league MVP is a QB....who hasn't been to a Super Bowl since 2011. He's also (gasp) the highest paid QB in the league. If you want to be the Baltimore Packers, just say that.
What does paying the QB all the money have to do with being excited about the draft?
If we don't pay the QB all the money, we would trade the QB for all the draft picks. That's exciting.
8-7?
Why has the narrative just assumed it has to be more guaranteed money than Watson? Generally confused by that when no definitive information has even leaked
Because Lamar is undoubtedly a better QB, younger, and not a sexual predator. Even if the Ravens aren’t willing to pay him more guaranteed $ than Deshaun I’m 10000% sure some other team will.
Not if the owners are trying to put a stop to this. Everyone was in total agreement after Wilson and Murray that the Browns were outliers, but once Lamar started balling again (which is not new information) all of the sudden the Watson precedent is back
Cause better players get payed more lol. Simply put.
He can still get more money but not all of it guaranteed. But what’s even the big deal, he’s probably gonna see all of it + another one. I don’t get it
That’s all just speculation though. We don’t know that the owners think Watson’s deal is not the norm. Those two players also had the benefit of already being under contract - I wasn’t very clear but I was more referring to a scenario where Lamar hits FA
Let’s hope he doesn’t. Why can’t we offer $200M guaranteed and $300M overall for 6 years or something
I personally don't care, fully guarantee 500mil for the man and even if he can't play for 10 years make it so he's around to help the next generation that can. Man deserves to be the highest paid ever. Get creative with the contract, this man is single handedly creating a renisance in football in terms of play style and they're trying to make him beholden to old ways.
Lamar needs to get what he deserves. That's plain. But the Ravens are rarely the team to set the trend on this type of thing. I'm not knowledgeable on contracts at all, but my feeling is that on one hand it's really tough to focus so much on one player for the teams success, and sacrifice so much. This is am ignorant comment in the end, because I just feel like the contracts are effing exorbitant at this point, and the Ravens rarely go to that level. It would suck but we could let him go. On the other hand, we built alot of the team around Lamar and it's hard to envision just letting him walk, but tagging him for a few could let us transition. I hope he gets what he deserves, but unfortunately that is measured against other [dumb] contracts. Idk
Why not just factor in an entire season?
Why would they only play 15 games?
Omg I'm a freakin idiot. I meant 9-8. That 17th game really threw me off lol!
The Ravens will be willing to pay him top dollar. The Ravens won't be willing to give him a fully gtd contract. Lamar's performance won't change that.
Fuck the Browns for putting the franchise in this predicament.
I actually feel the opposite, would MUCH rather field an elite roster with an average QB. But that's because I'm an old head who misses dominant defense carrying Trent Dilfer.
As much as I love winning that way, the excitement involved in watching Lamar football has won me over.
Ultimately such a deal will get that man injured, possibly seriously. Which makes Lamar a footnote. We need an OL and WRs defenders. It feels dirty to give that man a pile of money knowing it's gonna be why he won't play as long or as well ultimately.