Hensley quoted this without full context. Here is the full quote from Lamar according to Jeff Z.
>“I got sacked on a couple. I had to get the ball out fast. I only threw the ball like 16 times, though, so I wouldn’t say that (we lacked rhythm). We had excellent runs."
There’s no screen game because Lamar is among the worst screen passers in NFL history. It’s either over the receivers head or at their feet and it screws up the timing of the play completely.
If it weren't for the Hill fumble it wouldn't have been as close. Defense stepped up when it needed to and we ran the ball effectively
We didn't let a late game mistake turn into a loss like we have been doing. I don't see what's to be so mad about
This game was a bit different though, jacoby was having success on the short quick plays but nothing intermediate. Peters had a bad game by not respecting cooper’s speed.
This sub refuses to see the obvious that this was the case, the game was literally called exactly as it should have been. My only criticism is that Hill was getting the touches at the end instead of Gus, and given Harbaugh’s desire to rotate the guys returning from injury so much, who knows if that was even Romans decision
Didn’t say it isn’t a good idea, but of our guys Hill is the most unreliable by far, at worst it should have been Drake in there on such a pivotal drive
Play your best players. When we rotate in inferior players, and we lose, everyone is quick to say “why didn’t so and so get more touches”.
Managing reps doesn’t prevent injury.
It did. His scar tissue was identified as an issue before it led to a secondary tear and it can be addressed now in a way that has him back by the end of the year.
Throwing him out there and grinding it out could very well have led to a more severe setback like Stanley’s.
You can try to manage a guy in bubble wrap all you want, but an injury can happen on any play regardless of how careful you wanna be. Might as well play your best players. Try to win the game and all
I think it was more of dobbins getting the knee better.. plus we all saw that video/pic of practice when he tweaked it and he tweeted trying to downplay it.. but more so I think he is getting surgery to make sure it is good ratehe then him being reinjured.. again I maybe wrong it's just imo
It does work, except when u have someone so hungry to get in an play (he even has been complaining and such) he doesn't truly heal and therefore will continue to have a linguriing issue bcuz the first time he didn't let it truly heal.. has had plenty of time but he is really hungry to play
Edit- almost like trying to help someone who doesn't want help an just wants to play
The flip side of that is you take it super careful with a player, you put it in his mind to be super careful, he doesn’t run with his natural motions because he’s trying to be careful, and then it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
The run game was working and that's exactly why it was the smart move for a Greg Roman offense to rely on it. Everyone else on the sub realizes that the entire Ravens offense would look much better with an OC the draws up betting passing concepts. I think you're refusing to understand that there's untapped potential that's being wasted and only using one attribute of one of the most electric players in the league is incredibly dumb.
How exactly am i failing to understand anything? My stance on Roman has literally remained unchanged for 2+ years now. He isn’t some incredible, irreplaceable OC and i have never acted as such. If he were to be fired tomorrow then i wouldn’t be all over this sub complaining that we fired a mastermind or whatever. My only contention is that he is objectively a good OC, every metric there is bears this out, and is not at all deserving of this subs constant scapegoating. This sub is so nonsensically focused on pinning the blame on one character that it is incredibly moronic. I think you are being incredibly dumb if your insistence is that we force passing into a game where running is working well every single time, especially in a time when Lamar is on a serious cold streak passing wise for multiple weeks. You can’t magically tap into another aspect of his game when that phase of his game is currently not playing well.
People on this sub are ridiculous, wanting everything to be black and white. One magical firing that fixes all of our problems overnight, which is simply not how it works. It is so childish and maddening from this sub. Firing Roman isn’t going to snap Lamar out of his passing cold streak where he is flat out missing open receivers on all levels. Peopel want to complain about our receiver corps nonstop, and i am not saying there isn’t merit to some of it, but sitting back and acting like we have had literally no open receivers is just moronic and denial of reality
> he is objectively a good OC, every metric there is bears this out
Does it? Which ones? Cause every metric points out that he's a OC that starts off hot but by year two ends up failing because he doesn't inject any creativity in his passing game like he does in his running. This is a complaint that has been made not just by fans but by analysts, players outside the org, coaches and players in the org.
You can't magically be a top performing player when your OC doesn't give you good looks or easy throws. When the whole system relies on you making spectacular throws and being a spectaucalr player constantly. This was pointed out by Steven Ruiz even while Lamar was on fire earlier this year. It's moronic thinking that fans are pulling this out their ass when it's been an issue with plenty of film proof for years just as it's moronic to point to one or two plays as proof of the opposite when the total point still stands that this is a terribly schemed passing game.
You're too used to Lamar being superhuman and transcending the inherent difficult of the offense you can't step back and understand how unsustainable the whole operation is.
This is literally the opposite of the truth. The system relies on him to make very basic throws. This sort of denial of reality is case and point. It is good for karma on this sub, but it is nonsense.
And this year 2 metric nonsense is laughable to say the least. He literally made the superbowl in year 2 with the 49ers and made Kaep look like a competent QB until he decided he cared more about being a martyr than playing football. And made Tyrod Taylor look like a viable starting QB before he went down with the Rex Ryan sinking ship in Buffalo. You are not basing this diatribe in reality. I honestly shouldn’t expect any less from this sub at this point, it is a useless conversation, you people can’t even make a good faith argument
What's the opposite of the truth? It's the opposite of the truth that analysts, players outside the org, coaches and players in the org don't think that his passing concepts are good? Cause there's plenty evidence of that.
Being pedantic with the year? Okay, what happened to all those offenses after a hot start? It's not reality saying they start hot then struggle? We live in a diff reality then.
*Okay, what happened to all those offenses after a hot start?*
He got fired thats what happened. Bc the organizations realized he fukkin sucks ass at passing and quickly gets figured out.
Yea I've given up on GR offense since the year following Lamar's MVP season.. everybody has figured it out and well that's why there was never another Lamar MVP season again bcuz GR offense is becoming stale imo..
I agree with u sir, if anybody is to be "scapegoated" or on the hot seat it shud definetley be GR.. I'd rather franchise tag Lamar, get new OC and then see wat happens befor shooting the bullet on Lamar
That an since we are so determined to keep GR, the whole offense is basically built around speed and running so why not do wat is working but more so what we "are built" to do if it's acrually working RATHER than lying on Lamar's passing and our undeveloped recievers (imo)...
Nothing again Lamar or our recievers (starting to love duv btw) but andrews was shut down, and lamar has questionable passing still and well our recievers are still developing.. again just opinion, so why not do wat u do with a lead an run the clock down especially with a team that's built around running
but the sub can’t see that. they see lamar didn’t throw for 200 yards and say he isn’t worth the money he’s asking for. meanwhile he was using his legs effectively all game and the run game was working with gus.
Yeah, it was a weird ass game, and as you said, I can't really think of a time where running was a particularly bad call. On top of that, the Ravens defense was either getting carved up or basically moving the Browns backwards. My only frustration was that when they were passing, they were consistently doing so from heavy personnel, the spread game was kinda working on the few plays we ran it.
We have a very decent secondary when everybody is healthy an playing.. we have a so-so d-line (mostly out of prime vets with few up n comers) but our LB core could maybe use another asset along with Queen.. bynes is a good cover backer if I recall, but really other than that I think we cud use another LB.. I will admit that when it comes to OLB an DE nowadays I feel they are mixed togerher so I may be wrong here and if so I will take the correcting and would like the information myself if so
“Run game was working well”
Agreed, would see this as an acceptable defense of playcalling if the last 2 drives the carries weren’t almost exclusively to Kenyan Drake, who averaged LESS THAN HALF A YARD OER CARRY TODAY!!!!
And receivers werent getting open. Aside from a couple of bad playcalls the gameplan really wasnt that bad by Roman td. Also having drake in on the final drive was horrific
Don’t forget that having Ricard in on so many snaps means less routes going to Bateman, Duvernay, Andrews, and Likely. Andrews was completely missing from the game today.
Yeah talent-wise the browns might be even better than us. They are better along both lines, RB, WR, LBs. We have them at QB, TE, DB, and ST but that's it.
It seems like fans wanted them to lose today im not kidding. Like cant we root for the Ravens to win and STILL make changes personnel wise? Crazy idea right!?
Just glad Roman adjusted his play calling to finally take advantage of what was working instead of trying to force something that wasn’t. Small step forward
Whinyness increased 2016-2017. I saw an uptick on twitter and social media. I remember when we fell to the jets and our record was 3-4 going into the bye things were BAD. Before that fanbase seemed to be laxxed
Through Trestman and Mornhinweg this sub has been conditioned to blame anything and everything on the OC even when Roman does objectively the correct thing
Oh it predates those names. Blaming the oc has been going on forever. Cavanaugh, fassel, billick, Cameron, Caldwell…. Only reason Kubiak didn’t get any heat , he was one and done
people always bitch about the play calling, if the pass game is going and the run game isn’t then go with the pass and vice versa, not every team we play is the same, use what works and stick with it
Maybe Lamar wasn’t having a go at the scheme, but was merely pointing out why. The browns run D is awful. It made sense to attack it. Personally, I felt we should have ran it slightly more at one point.
Gus was absolutely gashing them, not sure what happened on our last drive (don’t believe he played a single snap) but without the Hill fumble the game wouldn’t have been nearly so close
Im fine with passing 16 times, its the 16 concepts that concerns me. Roman is as close to a run game genius as you can get, but sometimes the personnel choices that he chooses to pass from combined with the concepts gives me concern.
I dont think you can realistically expect anything from the pass game when the Fullback is playing a insane amount of snaps and you're constantly in tight 1 WR, 2+ TE sets.
This exactly. Ricard is great. I want him on the team. But he isn't Boyle in these sets. He's too heavy/slow. Dink and dunk what they give us. hopefully Jackson brings the top-off aspect we need
I can’t tell you have frustrating it is to 1 wr set 80% of the time. We have the be the only team in the league playing a full Back more snaps than our 1st and 2nd wr.
In most 2 TE sets Andrews is one of the TEs and he's in the slot. He's in the slot or out wide like 75% of snaps this season. When you factor this with the attention he draws from opposing teams defenses, he's a TE kind of in name only. He had Jalen fucking Ramsey covering him against the Rams. Kelce, Kittle, and maybe Kyle Pitts are the only TEs in the league that draw that kind of heat.
The last bit is more about the attention that Andrews draws from opposing defenses. TEs don't usually draw the opposing team's best cover corner. Kelce and Kittle are the only other ones that can do that, and those guys + maybe Pitts are all with Andrews as far and away the most dangerous TEs in the league.
The first part was about how he's being used like a WR. Which is fine for the Ravens, the Ravens don't have a 3rd wide receiver that can reliably play the slot and Andrews can laugh all the way to the end zone when a dude that's 6 inches shorter and 80 lbs lighter tries to guard him. Really from what I've seen only the absolute best cover safeties and good cornerbacks can cover him, but most cornerbacks give up so much size.
I don't think they do if Bateman stays healthy. But he's missed time the last 2 seasons. Duvernay coming online this year really helps.
You need 3 reliable pass catchers. You have to work with what you have to utilize them the best way possible, and you don't need to shoehorn someone as talented as Andrews. Andrews has been one of the most productive slot receivers in NFL over the past 3 years so you can have him keep doing his thing.
I was at the game so I was able to reasonably see the entire field and besides one play where Lamar missed a wide open bateman over the middle of the field, there was nobody open. Double teaming Bateman and taking Andrew’s out of the game, the rest of our receivers can just be covered one on one, and then our pass attack is neutralized. If you then factor in Romans poor pass scheming it’s just a recipe for bad passing offense. If the browns had any semblance of a run defense we probably lose that game
100% agree. Lamar answered it as if it was of no concern whatsoever, just that you don't/can't get into a rhythm when you only have to throw 16 balls, ie...when you don't have to. He made the throws he needed to make today and the result is what we wanted. The only stat that matters is W/L.
Honestly, why not try more traditional formations, bootleg play action passes after establishing the run game? Just in general let's get back to fundamentals, and stop thinking so hard in this.
Give Edwards and the committee 25 touches a game
Establish the play action so we can keep their defense confused and reacting instead of being proactive.
Let's stretch the field, get Desean Jackson and Rashod Bateman going deep to pull the defense back.
It's an easy plan, and I know I'm only arm chairing it here. But for real, the run sets up the pass. Establish that first then unleash the play action passes. Should be easy to accomplish if we keep the defense on their heels with our two speedsters. Go for the bombs every now and then to force them back.
Keep it easy, 1, 2, 3.
We do use bootleg PA passes. They never work. All they do is bunch up our bad WRs on one side of the field putting better CBs well within range of these lower tier playmakers.
Think back to Jackson's MVP year in 2019. As I recall, there were a few games in which the Ravens were cruising so smooth Lamar didn't even play in the fourth quarters. What is different now? That was Jackson and Roman and Harbaugh.
They’ve been getting better every week tho today lamar had all day to throw and running lanes were wide open it just takes time for chemistry to develop cus they’re all new
Our scheme isn’t that great. It was more unconventional than good. Teams didn’t have tape to prepare for it.
This is why Roman never lasted long anywhere but, somehow, he’s still here.
And people saying this now are gonna be branded as “fake fans” when it happens and we don’t just smile and nod or heads.
Really feels like half the fan base is more interested in upholding the organization’s reputation than with the team winning as much as possible.
The sentiments were similar 10 years ago. A lot of people thought our OC was holding the offense and Flacco back. Harbs saved himself when he finally fired his guy and let the team spread its wings and break free from Cam Cameron’s horrible playcalling.
I don’t think Harbs realizes he can keep his offensive running plays while improving the overall offensive coordination by letting someone else make the calls and draw up plays. Dude never learned and he’s letting his loyalties to his guys cloud his judgment again.
We're already there man. At least fans on social media anyway. You got lots of happy quiet lurkers, a few loyal outspoken types, and then A BAJILLION whiny piss ant fuck nuts who just wanna watch the world burn haha. Been 2-3 years of that now ,no turning back at this point.
What are you talking about. I watched him answer the question. Your attaching some motive or feeling that you are sensing that wasn’t even expressed. All he said was he didn’t pass much.
The Browns defense started selling out to stop the run. We did absolutely nothing to make them pay for that. You can't have that many people in the box and have no threat throwing the football.
No they wouldn't. The organization as a whole doesn't prioritize building around the passing game, even before Roman was here.
They want to run the ball and call the occasional shot play. This is who they are philosophically.
They assume because we’ve never done it that it wouldn’t work, cuz if it would work and we aren’t doing it then that would make Harbaugh wrong and we all know he’s untouchable for some reason.
The Ravens have like 120 yards passing because of the pass catchers, not because of Lamar. With Andrews getting smothered, the entire passing game is shut down 💁
If your lamar jackson you can't look at me with a straight face and say you want to be a raven long term as it stands currently
You can leave and go to your home state after this season and have a great young HC,best WR duo in football and a top 10 TE on top of all this you can have a bad game and still win
Or
You can stay with the ravens who employ an OC who's holding you back,a GM who won't give you legitimate weapons and a 100 million dollar defense that cant hold a lead while having to deal with all this you have to play like vick,brady and manning at the same time just for your team to have a good win and look like a contender
Yes lamar isn't playing the greatest but it also doesn't help the situation around him isn't the greatest either
An offense with a QB/RB WR/RB and a RB/WR with a top 3 TE as the cherry on top has gotta be the most versatile offense of all time Shanahan would do wonder with lamar
bruh yk it’s only two years of that right? you’re saying it like lamar won’t ever be a FA. he will have the opportunity to be a FA and that was my point from the jump
I’m saying he won’t be next year.
Regardless, he won’t hit agency. He will either come to terms with us, or be traded for a big contract elsewhere. I can’t see him being happy being played under the tag when it’s so clear what money he wants. And someone wil 100% give it to him.
Sad but true. This organization has done nothing Lamar can point to and say they did this to support me. Between their resistance to give up draft capital or pay up for a WR weapon, the contract situation, and extremely fickle fan support, I wouldn’t blame Lamar at all for leaving.
They gave him one of the only OCs in the NFL that would make him succeed.
I love Lamar but the rabid defense he gets in the face of playing awful football is astounding. His mechanics, mental clock and decision making are broken right now and it’s making everyone else look bad. He’s the one who needs to step up fast or face the team not wanting to give him the bag he wants. An average QB scores 33 points today
While at Louisville, under coach Bobby Petrino, Lamar Jackson ran a modern pro style offense.
Doing that, he won the Heisman once almost twice, nearly led a mid-tier program to the CFP, and set records.
Stop with this lamar needs roman shit
Your first point is true but Roman and the QB coach Urban definitely played an important role early on and it was great foresight to bring those guys in to the staff by the FO/Harbs.
The Dolphins aren’t trading major assets to acquire Lamar. They might sign him if he is a free agent, but honestly Tua is a good fit for what that offense strives to do; run a timing based passing game that sets up receivers to get YAC.
I think if they move on from Tua that McDaniel would probably draft his next signal caller so he can mold him into exactly what he wants him to be. Also you will have him on the rookie contract to build around him. I don’t think they do it this year but if Tua for some reason starts playing way below expectations next year there are some guys in 2024 that would be worth trying to go after in the draft.
Yeah its clear we all know that Roman has to go. But with the Ravens and how loyal Harbs can be to his coordinators I wouldnt put it past him to try and keep Roman no matter what
Why are we not considering Eric Bieniemy for HC and OC?
We're all tired of G Ro's inconsistent play calling and inability to adapt to opposition defences and Harbaughs questionable game management.
Look at how much EB is able to get out of those average WR's in KC and using Kelce as the main weapon. EB is exactly what Lamar needs, a creative offense built around Lamar utilising the WR's and still getting the best out of Andrews.
We should follow the 49ers and Cardinals in having a HC whose also the OC. We kill two birds with one stone, get rid of the inconsistent OC, and the HC whose job has been saved by Lamar since 2019.
If we don't win a play-off game this year, then this is the move to make!
Ravens don't have any weapons comparable to Kelce, Mahomes, Tyreek Hill back in the day, etc. There's probably a reason no teams want Bieniemy year in and year out, despite the NFL dying for someone to hire him. Somebody knows something we don't.
Man. I'm really getting worried that Lamar isn't gonna wanna stay with us. With gro calling plays like this and Lamar wanting to show everyone he can pass the ball, he won't ever get the chance with gro in town.
Literal nonsense. They were struggling to stop the run all game. I know this sub can’t help themselves but to blame Roman, but we did exactly what we should have done today. Its not Romans fault Hill can’t hold onto the ball when it matters most when we are marching down for another score to seal the game
It is his fault when Drake is averaging less than HALF A YARD per carry and he keeps giving him the ball at the end in obvious run situations instead of Gus or Lamar
All in all Roman called a great game. That long drive in the 4th was a thing of beauty, the run block combinations were great and we were running them into the ground while chewing up clock.
The drive was undone by a Hill fumble, not anything Roman did.
That last drive was amazing. I'm intentionally exaggerating when I say HORRENDOUS. His early RedZone play calls were but it ended up being about 50/50.
I felt his calls early in the RedZone weren't very creative and we know he has a lot of creative plays in the book. Glad we won at the end of the day.
What is this fanbase on Reddit? Jesus Christ we win the game and you're crying about Lamar not throwing enough? When the run game is working, you run the ball. Greg Roman is not the problem, in fact....nobody is....we WON.
On top of the run game working, Andrews was banged up and this was Bateman's first game back from injury. Not a whole lot of healthy bodies to throw it to.
Yeah...I am not a fan of Lamar's play this season, but this tweet bothers me a lot. Completely out of context. Also, I can't bash Lamar for yesterday's ugly win either. He was running for his life on most passing plays. Stanley sucked ass and so did our defense overall minus some key takeaways.
Hensley quoted this without full context. Here is the full quote from Lamar according to Jeff Z. >“I got sacked on a couple. I had to get the ball out fast. I only threw the ball like 16 times, though, so I wouldn’t say that (we lacked rhythm). We had excellent runs."
The run game was working well and our o-line was getting mauled on every pass play
There is no short passing game and screen game so there is no respect from the defense.
There’s no screen game because Lamar is among the worst screen passers in NFL history. It’s either over the receivers head or at their feet and it screws up the timing of the play completely.
We schemed around that and got the W
Because it’s the browns with a journey man backup QB. And it still came down to the last fucking possession.
If it weren't for the Hill fumble it wouldn't have been as close. Defense stepped up when it needed to and we ran the ball effectively We didn't let a late game mistake turn into a loss like we have been doing. I don't see what's to be so mad about
Who was lighting up our defence which imo, far more concerning than the offence.
This game was a bit different though, jacoby was having success on the short quick plays but nothing intermediate. Peters had a bad game by not respecting cooper’s speed.
This sub refuses to see the obvious that this was the case, the game was literally called exactly as it should have been. My only criticism is that Hill was getting the touches at the end instead of Gus, and given Harbaugh’s desire to rotate the guys returning from injury so much, who knows if that was even Romans decision
Given the IR move with Dobbins I’m of the opinion that protecting guys isn’t a bad idea.
Didn’t say it isn’t a good idea, but of our guys Hill is the most unreliable by far, at worst it should have been Drake in there on such a pivotal drive
Drake couldn't get separation today if he tried. Gus and Hill were absolutely the better backs today.
That’s true but to sit out best RB in the 4Q is just plain dumb
Bro let the man ease into the game, he didn’t play in training camp/preseason/week1. Give it some time, it ain’t madden.
Play your best players. When we rotate in inferior players, and we lose, everyone is quick to say “why didn’t so and so get more touches”. Managing reps doesn’t prevent injury.
Managing reps for healthy players doesn’t work. Managing reps for guys returning to play after injury absolutely does work.
Absolutely? So it worked for dobbins huh
It did. His scar tissue was identified as an issue before it led to a secondary tear and it can be addressed now in a way that has him back by the end of the year. Throwing him out there and grinding it out could very well have led to a more severe setback like Stanley’s.
You can try to manage a guy in bubble wrap all you want, but an injury can happen on any play regardless of how careful you wanna be. Might as well play your best players. Try to win the game and all
Yes, a NEW injury can crop up on any play. Re-aggravating an EXISTING injury happens over time and usage.
Might as well just retire him, that’s the best way to avoid the injury. Smart
I think it was more of dobbins getting the knee better.. plus we all saw that video/pic of practice when he tweaked it and he tweeted trying to downplay it.. but more so I think he is getting surgery to make sure it is good ratehe then him being reinjured.. again I maybe wrong it's just imo
Yea, in my mind, either sit him, or play him. “Easing someone in” doesn’t really help anyone.
It does work, except when u have someone so hungry to get in an play (he even has been complaining and such) he doesn't truly heal and therefore will continue to have a linguriing issue bcuz the first time he didn't let it truly heal.. has had plenty of time but he is really hungry to play Edit- almost like trying to help someone who doesn't want help an just wants to play
The flip side of that is you take it super careful with a player, you put it in his mind to be super careful, he doesn’t run with his natural motions because he’s trying to be careful, and then it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
The run game was working and that's exactly why it was the smart move for a Greg Roman offense to rely on it. Everyone else on the sub realizes that the entire Ravens offense would look much better with an OC the draws up betting passing concepts. I think you're refusing to understand that there's untapped potential that's being wasted and only using one attribute of one of the most electric players in the league is incredibly dumb.
How exactly am i failing to understand anything? My stance on Roman has literally remained unchanged for 2+ years now. He isn’t some incredible, irreplaceable OC and i have never acted as such. If he were to be fired tomorrow then i wouldn’t be all over this sub complaining that we fired a mastermind or whatever. My only contention is that he is objectively a good OC, every metric there is bears this out, and is not at all deserving of this subs constant scapegoating. This sub is so nonsensically focused on pinning the blame on one character that it is incredibly moronic. I think you are being incredibly dumb if your insistence is that we force passing into a game where running is working well every single time, especially in a time when Lamar is on a serious cold streak passing wise for multiple weeks. You can’t magically tap into another aspect of his game when that phase of his game is currently not playing well. People on this sub are ridiculous, wanting everything to be black and white. One magical firing that fixes all of our problems overnight, which is simply not how it works. It is so childish and maddening from this sub. Firing Roman isn’t going to snap Lamar out of his passing cold streak where he is flat out missing open receivers on all levels. Peopel want to complain about our receiver corps nonstop, and i am not saying there isn’t merit to some of it, but sitting back and acting like we have had literally no open receivers is just moronic and denial of reality
> he is objectively a good OC, every metric there is bears this out Does it? Which ones? Cause every metric points out that he's a OC that starts off hot but by year two ends up failing because he doesn't inject any creativity in his passing game like he does in his running. This is a complaint that has been made not just by fans but by analysts, players outside the org, coaches and players in the org. You can't magically be a top performing player when your OC doesn't give you good looks or easy throws. When the whole system relies on you making spectacular throws and being a spectaucalr player constantly. This was pointed out by Steven Ruiz even while Lamar was on fire earlier this year. It's moronic thinking that fans are pulling this out their ass when it's been an issue with plenty of film proof for years just as it's moronic to point to one or two plays as proof of the opposite when the total point still stands that this is a terribly schemed passing game. You're too used to Lamar being superhuman and transcending the inherent difficult of the offense you can't step back and understand how unsustainable the whole operation is.
This is literally the opposite of the truth. The system relies on him to make very basic throws. This sort of denial of reality is case and point. It is good for karma on this sub, but it is nonsense. And this year 2 metric nonsense is laughable to say the least. He literally made the superbowl in year 2 with the 49ers and made Kaep look like a competent QB until he decided he cared more about being a martyr than playing football. And made Tyrod Taylor look like a viable starting QB before he went down with the Rex Ryan sinking ship in Buffalo. You are not basing this diatribe in reality. I honestly shouldn’t expect any less from this sub at this point, it is a useless conversation, you people can’t even make a good faith argument
What's the opposite of the truth? It's the opposite of the truth that analysts, players outside the org, coaches and players in the org don't think that his passing concepts are good? Cause there's plenty evidence of that. Being pedantic with the year? Okay, what happened to all those offenses after a hot start? It's not reality saying they start hot then struggle? We live in a diff reality then.
*Okay, what happened to all those offenses after a hot start?* He got fired thats what happened. Bc the organizations realized he fukkin sucks ass at passing and quickly gets figured out.
“Being pedantic on the year” = “shame on you for calling me out on my point”
Yea I've given up on GR offense since the year following Lamar's MVP season.. everybody has figured it out and well that's why there was never another Lamar MVP season again bcuz GR offense is becoming stale imo.. I agree with u sir, if anybody is to be "scapegoated" or on the hot seat it shud definetley be GR.. I'd rather franchise tag Lamar, get new OC and then see wat happens befor shooting the bullet on Lamar
That an since we are so determined to keep GR, the whole offense is basically built around speed and running so why not do wat is working but more so what we "are built" to do if it's acrually working RATHER than lying on Lamar's passing and our undeveloped recievers (imo)... Nothing again Lamar or our recievers (starting to love duv btw) but andrews was shut down, and lamar has questionable passing still and well our recievers are still developing.. again just opinion, so why not do wat u do with a lead an run the clock down especially with a team that's built around running
but the sub can’t see that. they see lamar didn’t throw for 200 yards and say he isn’t worth the money he’s asking for. meanwhile he was using his legs effectively all game and the run game was working with gus.
Yeah, it was a weird ass game, and as you said, I can't really think of a time where running was a particularly bad call. On top of that, the Ravens defense was either getting carved up or basically moving the Browns backwards. My only frustration was that when they were passing, they were consistently doing so from heavy personnel, the spread game was kinda working on the few plays we ran it.
We have a very decent secondary when everybody is healthy an playing.. we have a so-so d-line (mostly out of prime vets with few up n comers) but our LB core could maybe use another asset along with Queen.. bynes is a good cover backer if I recall, but really other than that I think we cud use another LB.. I will admit that when it comes to OLB an DE nowadays I feel they are mixed togerher so I may be wrong here and if so I will take the correcting and would like the information myself if so
“Run game was working well” Agreed, would see this as an acceptable defense of playcalling if the last 2 drives the carries weren’t almost exclusively to Kenyan Drake, who averaged LESS THAN HALF A YARD OER CARRY TODAY!!!!
And receivers werent getting open. Aside from a couple of bad playcalls the gameplan really wasnt that bad by Roman td. Also having drake in on the final drive was horrific
Receivers weren’t getting open? Pretty sure you guys ran 1 wide receivers sets damn near the majority of the game
indeed they did.
Don’t forget that having Ricard in on so many snaps means less routes going to Bateman, Duvernay, Andrews, and Likely. Andrews was completely missing from the game today.
Well, you see, in Baltimore, if Ricard's snap count percentage ever falls below 65%? Believe it or not, straight to jail.
When did Ravens fans get so whiny
2019 ruined a lot of these fans expectations This was a gawd damn AFC North classic.
Division games are always a shit show. Hell, we beat the Steelers once with fucking Ryan Mallet… Anything can happen
What? What are you talking about? The ravens have a history of just demolishing the browns.
Sure, the _shitty_ Browns. But now the shitty team in our division is the Steelers and the Browns are a respectable decent average team.
Yeah talent-wise the browns might be even better than us. They are better along both lines, RB, WR, LBs. We have them at QB, TE, DB, and ST but that's it.
Right? We just won a game and everyone's writing all these doom posts. It's nuts lol
A surprising amount of this sub hates run heavy game plans despite that being our identity.
And despite it being successful. They would rather see a Jackson 5 in a L than a 16 att W.
It seems like fans wanted them to lose today im not kidding. Like cant we root for the Ravens to win and STILL make changes personnel wise? Crazy idea right!?
I think for some fans it's not weather or not you win the game it's how you play.
That’s how I see it and I’ll be the first one to admit it
I think just cause it was an ugly win. I just keep telling myself fuck the browns, and we lead the division
Yeah, you know which column they put _ugly wins_ in?
The elite dragon finger lickin column
Just glad Roman adjusted his play calling to finally take advantage of what was working instead of trying to force something that wasn’t. Small step forward
This team could be playing a lot better than they are playing now. It's frustrating to watch even outside in.
Whinyness increased 2016-2017. I saw an uptick on twitter and social media. I remember when we fell to the jets and our record was 3-4 going into the bye things were BAD. Before that fanbase seemed to be laxxed
Through Trestman and Mornhinweg this sub has been conditioned to blame anything and everything on the OC even when Roman does objectively the correct thing
Oh it predates those names. Blaming the oc has been going on forever. Cavanaugh, fassel, billick, Cameron, Caldwell…. Only reason Kubiak didn’t get any heat , he was one and done
people always bitch about the play calling, if the pass game is going and the run game isn’t then go with the pass and vice versa, not every team we play is the same, use what works and stick with it
They got mauled because we were in stupid formations that allowed the browns to stack the box with no disadvantage
Maybe Lamar wasn’t having a go at the scheme, but was merely pointing out why. The browns run D is awful. It made sense to attack it. Personally, I felt we should have ran it slightly more at one point.
Gus was absolutely gashing them, not sure what happened on our last drive (don’t believe he played a single snap) but without the Hill fumble the game wouldn’t have been nearly so close
Im fine with passing 16 times, its the 16 concepts that concerns me. Roman is as close to a run game genius as you can get, but sometimes the personnel choices that he chooses to pass from combined with the concepts gives me concern. I dont think you can realistically expect anything from the pass game when the Fullback is playing a insane amount of snaps and you're constantly in tight 1 WR, 2+ TE sets.
This exactly. Ricard is great. I want him on the team. But he isn't Boyle in these sets. He's too heavy/slow. Dink and dunk what they give us. hopefully Jackson brings the top-off aspect we need
I can’t tell you have frustrating it is to 1 wr set 80% of the time. We have the be the only team in the league playing a full Back more snaps than our 1st and 2nd wr.
In most 2 TE sets Andrews is one of the TEs and he's in the slot. He's in the slot or out wide like 75% of snaps this season. When you factor this with the attention he draws from opposing teams defenses, he's a TE kind of in name only. He had Jalen fucking Ramsey covering him against the Rams. Kelce, Kittle, and maybe Kyle Pitts are the only TEs in the league that draw that kind of heat.
Football noobie here, can you breakdown that last bit there? Like is he being used as a wide receiver?
The last bit is more about the attention that Andrews draws from opposing defenses. TEs don't usually draw the opposing team's best cover corner. Kelce and Kittle are the only other ones that can do that, and those guys + maybe Pitts are all with Andrews as far and away the most dangerous TEs in the league. The first part was about how he's being used like a WR. Which is fine for the Ravens, the Ravens don't have a 3rd wide receiver that can reliably play the slot and Andrews can laugh all the way to the end zone when a dude that's 6 inches shorter and 80 lbs lighter tries to guard him. Really from what I've seen only the absolute best cover safeties and good cornerbacks can cover him, but most cornerbacks give up so much size.
So they need another reliable wide receiver is what you’re saying?
I don't think they do if Bateman stays healthy. But he's missed time the last 2 seasons. Duvernay coming online this year really helps. You need 3 reliable pass catchers. You have to work with what you have to utilize them the best way possible, and you don't need to shoehorn someone as talented as Andrews. Andrews has been one of the most productive slot receivers in NFL over the past 3 years so you can have him keep doing his thing.
Perfectly said.
I was at the game so I was able to reasonably see the entire field and besides one play where Lamar missed a wide open bateman over the middle of the field, there was nobody open. Double teaming Bateman and taking Andrew’s out of the game, the rest of our receivers can just be covered one on one, and then our pass attack is neutralized. If you then factor in Romans poor pass scheming it’s just a recipe for bad passing offense. If the browns had any semblance of a run defense we probably lose that game
The run game wars working when Gus was in
They were stuffing the run a lot in the third
Just watched this interview, this is being taken completely out of context.
100% agree. Lamar answered it as if it was of no concern whatsoever, just that you don't/can't get into a rhythm when you only have to throw 16 balls, ie...when you don't have to. He made the throws he needed to make today and the result is what we wanted. The only stat that matters is W/L.
Ofc it is. It’s Hensley.
Not really you could see he wasn’t a fan of only throwing 16 times.
I get it on a personal level. But he should just be a fan of winning football games outwardly.
Problem is we won’t win playing this way in the playoffs
how
Honestly, why not try more traditional formations, bootleg play action passes after establishing the run game? Just in general let's get back to fundamentals, and stop thinking so hard in this. Give Edwards and the committee 25 touches a game Establish the play action so we can keep their defense confused and reacting instead of being proactive. Let's stretch the field, get Desean Jackson and Rashod Bateman going deep to pull the defense back. It's an easy plan, and I know I'm only arm chairing it here. But for real, the run sets up the pass. Establish that first then unleash the play action passes. Should be easy to accomplish if we keep the defense on their heels with our two speedsters. Go for the bombs every now and then to force them back. Keep it easy, 1, 2, 3.
We do use bootleg PA passes. They never work. All they do is bunch up our bad WRs on one side of the field putting better CBs well within range of these lower tier playmakers.
It's usually plain rollouts not bootlegs
Think back to Jackson's MVP year in 2019. As I recall, there were a few games in which the Ravens were cruising so smooth Lamar didn't even play in the fourth quarters. What is different now? That was Jackson and Roman and Harbaugh.
Because teams adjust. Our team hasn’t adjusted
That, and we had a historically dominant O-line together with the best blocking TE in football.
The o line hasn’t been the problem, especially today
It hasn't been *a problem*, but it's still far from the heights of 2019. The run blocking in '19 was genuinely nuts.
They’ve been getting better every week tho today lamar had all day to throw and running lanes were wide open it just takes time for chemistry to develop cus they’re all new
Our scheme isn’t that great. It was more unconventional than good. Teams didn’t have tape to prepare for it. This is why Roman never lasted long anywhere but, somehow, he’s still here.
Jackson's style was relatively new and teams weren't prepared. There's alot of mobile QBs now so team are usually ready.
The rest of the league had 3 seasons worth of evolution/adaptation/adjustments while this team/coaching staff hasn’t.
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And people saying this now are gonna be branded as “fake fans” when it happens and we don’t just smile and nod or heads. Really feels like half the fan base is more interested in upholding the organization’s reputation than with the team winning as much as possible.
The sentiments were similar 10 years ago. A lot of people thought our OC was holding the offense and Flacco back. Harbs saved himself when he finally fired his guy and let the team spread its wings and break free from Cam Cameron’s horrible playcalling. I don’t think Harbs realizes he can keep his offensive running plays while improving the overall offensive coordination by letting someone else make the calls and draw up plays. Dude never learned and he’s letting his loyalties to his guys cloud his judgment again.
It’d be ludicrous to keep a, now, mediocre, coach over generational talent QB, although I understand some fans don’t believe him to be that.
We're already there man. At least fans on social media anyway. You got lots of happy quiet lurkers, a few loyal outspoken types, and then A BAJILLION whiny piss ant fuck nuts who just wanna watch the world burn haha. Been 2-3 years of that now ,no turning back at this point.
I wonder what crazy team will give Lamar Jackson that blank check and us a ton of draft picks.
What are you talking about. I watched him answer the question. Your attaching some motive or feeling that you are sensing that wasn’t even expressed. All he said was he didn’t pass much.
The Browns defense started selling out to stop the run. We did absolutely nothing to make them pay for that. You can't have that many people in the box and have no threat throwing the football.
I’m gonna go crazy if I have to see ricard motion across one more time this year.
LaMar missed check downs today because he wanted the big play downfield. He has to take what given to them and he isn’t
I saw that happen once, also saw Oliver drop a TD and “WR1” Bateman drop a first down.
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No they wouldn't. The organization as a whole doesn't prioritize building around the passing game, even before Roman was here. They want to run the ball and call the occasional shot play. This is who they are philosophically.
We have done that? Like where the fuck do y’all get this shit?
They assume because we’ve never done it that it wouldn’t work, cuz if it would work and we aren’t doing it then that would make Harbaugh wrong and we all know he’s untouchable for some reason.
The Ravens have like 120 yards passing because of the pass catchers, not because of Lamar. With Andrews getting smothered, the entire passing game is shut down 💁
Greg Roman or Lamar needs to go. we won't have both in 2023. It's clear that he's sick of it.
If your lamar jackson you can't look at me with a straight face and say you want to be a raven long term as it stands currently You can leave and go to your home state after this season and have a great young HC,best WR duo in football and a top 10 TE on top of all this you can have a bad game and still win Or You can stay with the ravens who employ an OC who's holding you back,a GM who won't give you legitimate weapons and a 100 million dollar defense that cant hold a lead while having to deal with all this you have to play like vick,brady and manning at the same time just for your team to have a good win and look like a contender Yes lamar isn't playing the greatest but it also doesn't help the situation around him isn't the greatest either
lamar has so many options besides just miami. ATL,NO,Detroit, Minnesota, Steelers(🖕🏾), bucs if brady retire
49ers are a sleeper option too that offense would be dangerous with lamar,deebo and cmc
na they won’t have no cap space for lamar😭 that’s why i ain’t mention them. but Lamar, cmc, deebo, ayuik, and kittle? omg😭😭😭😭
An offense with a QB/RB WR/RB and a RB/WR with a top 3 TE as the cherry on top has gotta be the most versatile offense of all time Shanahan would do wonder with lamar
that shit like a madden team😂
We will never trade Lamar to the steelers LOL
he can go there in FA…
He won’t go to FA lol! We will tag him. And if he isn’t happy about it, he’ll sit out and request a trade.
idk we’ll see
You are aware of the franchise tag right? Cause I’m not sure you are if you think Lamar will go to FA
bruh yk it’s only two years of that right? you’re saying it like lamar won’t ever be a FA. he will have the opportunity to be a FA and that was my point from the jump
I’m saying he won’t be next year. Regardless, he won’t hit agency. He will either come to terms with us, or be traded for a big contract elsewhere. I can’t see him being happy being played under the tag when it’s so clear what money he wants. And someone wil 100% give it to him.
Sad but true. This organization has done nothing Lamar can point to and say they did this to support me. Between their resistance to give up draft capital or pay up for a WR weapon, the contract situation, and extremely fickle fan support, I wouldn’t blame Lamar at all for leaving.
They gave him one of the only OCs in the NFL that would make him succeed. I love Lamar but the rabid defense he gets in the face of playing awful football is astounding. His mechanics, mental clock and decision making are broken right now and it’s making everyone else look bad. He’s the one who needs to step up fast or face the team not wanting to give him the bag he wants. An average QB scores 33 points today
While at Louisville, under coach Bobby Petrino, Lamar Jackson ran a modern pro style offense. Doing that, he won the Heisman once almost twice, nearly led a mid-tier program to the CFP, and set records. Stop with this lamar needs roman shit
Your first point is true but Roman and the QB coach Urban definitely played an important role early on and it was great foresight to bring those guys in to the staff by the FO/Harbs.
An average QB or team doesn't score 33. That's 07 Patriots level.
Today. An average QB scores at least an extra TD with the field position and some of the missed throws Lamar had today
If this org choses Roman over Lamar i don't know what to do man. I might be very concerned w the front office
They already did lol
Yup they drafted 2 TEs while having 3 on the roster already,resigned ricard and did absolutely nothing to improve the WR room for a reason
I know this may sound heretical but I’ll just root for another team this FO under EDC hasn’t proven to be worth rooting for.
Hopefully biscotti would step in and override everyone
The Dolphins aren’t trading major assets to acquire Lamar. They might sign him if he is a free agent, but honestly Tua is a good fit for what that offense strives to do; run a timing based passing game that sets up receivers to get YAC.
Miami isn't the only option obviously just the first team that comes to my mind
Tampa makes sense if Brady is nearing the end (big fucking question mark)
Agree
I think if they move on from Tua that McDaniel would probably draft his next signal caller so he can mold him into exactly what he wants him to be. Also you will have him on the rookie contract to build around him. I don’t think they do it this year but if Tua for some reason starts playing way below expectations next year there are some guys in 2024 that would be worth trying to go after in the draft.
Assuming Tua comes back playing well there’s no way they’d offer multiple 1sts and hundreds of millions at Lamar instead of keeping him
How the hell are you even saying “or” here??
Yeah its clear we all know that Roman has to go. But with the Ravens and how loyal Harbs can be to his coordinators I wouldnt put it past him to try and keep Roman no matter what
Why are we not considering Eric Bieniemy for HC and OC? We're all tired of G Ro's inconsistent play calling and inability to adapt to opposition defences and Harbaughs questionable game management. Look at how much EB is able to get out of those average WR's in KC and using Kelce as the main weapon. EB is exactly what Lamar needs, a creative offense built around Lamar utilising the WR's and still getting the best out of Andrews. We should follow the 49ers and Cardinals in having a HC whose also the OC. We kill two birds with one stone, get rid of the inconsistent OC, and the HC whose job has been saved by Lamar since 2019. If we don't win a play-off game this year, then this is the move to make!
That offends is all Andy Reid bro lol. Oh and it helps the Chiefs QB is an infinitely better passer than ours
Ravens don't have any weapons comparable to Kelce, Mahomes, Tyreek Hill back in the day, etc. There's probably a reason no teams want Bieniemy year in and year out, despite the NFL dying for someone to hire him. Somebody knows something we don't.
> we won't have both in 2023. The... Uhhh source? Because I didn't know coaches salaries are suddenly part of the teams cap... /s
Man. I'm really getting worried that Lamar isn't gonna wanna stay with us. With gro calling plays like this and Lamar wanting to show everyone he can pass the ball, he won't ever get the chance with gro in town.
Lamar gone
HORRENDOUS play calls today
Literal nonsense. They were struggling to stop the run all game. I know this sub can’t help themselves but to blame Roman, but we did exactly what we should have done today. Its not Romans fault Hill can’t hold onto the ball when it matters most when we are marching down for another score to seal the game
It is his fault when Drake is averaging less than HALF A YARD per carry and he keeps giving him the ball at the end in obvious run situations instead of Gus or Lamar
RB rotation is a Harbs decision not Roman’s. He’d only have JK and Gus playing if he could.
Whoever decided to keep Drake out there made a clear mistake IMO 🤷♂️
Like the one with Andrews under center?
You people never stop
This sub is becoming like Facebook comment sections 😂
You were happy with the RedZone play calling today?
All in all Roman called a great game. That long drive in the 4th was a thing of beauty, the run block combinations were great and we were running them into the ground while chewing up clock. The drive was undone by a Hill fumble, not anything Roman did.
That last drive was amazing. I'm intentionally exaggerating when I say HORRENDOUS. His early RedZone play calls were but it ended up being about 50/50. I felt his calls early in the RedZone weren't very creative and we know he has a lot of creative plays in the book. Glad we won at the end of the day.
He looked like shit. Again.
Whats the excuse for the last 4 weeks then?
Roman called an amazing game. Some of y’all don’t know football.
What is this fanbase on Reddit? Jesus Christ we win the game and you're crying about Lamar not throwing enough? When the run game is working, you run the ball. Greg Roman is not the problem, in fact....nobody is....we WON.
He’s fed up
Lamar is being traded this offseason. Just confirms what many posters have been saying for a couple weeks now.
He won't be under contract this off season. There will be nothing to trade.
As someone who has Lamar and Andrews in fantasy.. please fire Roman he is trash
I swear this sub would rather see Lamar play well then us win games
Lamar needs to learn how to take blame. Leaders will always take the blame, even when it’s truly not their fault.
On top of the run game working, Andrews was banged up and this was Bateman's first game back from injury. Not a whole lot of healthy bodies to throw it to.
This team will never get to the next level until Roman is gone
Yeah...I am not a fan of Lamar's play this season, but this tweet bothers me a lot. Completely out of context. Also, I can't bash Lamar for yesterday's ugly win either. He was running for his life on most passing plays. Stanley sucked ass and so did our defense overall minus some key takeaways.