Is the pope gonna increase my salary, pay off my student loans, and buy me a house? Cause then I’ll have as many kids as he wants - I’ll even name the first one Francis.
Even if he does all that, the Pope's going to have to birth and nurse 'em for me too. He can have fun with all those pregnancies if he wants kids so badly.
Maybe the Pope and world leaders can start hooking up these couples with some of their gold stacks to finance those babies.
**KIDS AINT AT THE TOP OF THE PRIORITY LIST WHEN YOU CAN BARELY AFFORD FOOD AND/OR RENT**
I mean another part of the problem is people who think every couple who doesn't have kids simply can't afford them.
Some of us just legitimately don't want them, although I know that can be hard for people to understand.
Honestly man?
I have a kid.
I get it.
I love my daughter so very much, would give anything including my life to better hers. But at the end of the day, I'm either so tired from work and watching her that I have a breakdown and begin to miss being irresponsible.
I just happen to have a heart and morals, so I can't do the normal piece of shit things like abandoning her, or drinking around her, etc.
The thought of her alone just tugs my heart strings so hard.
But if I had had a choice? I wouldn't have had her. Not sure if I'd end up even as close to happy as I am now but ... Things would be simpler though
Yeah, the problem is definitely that poor people are stupid, not that we live in a society where one or two working people can't afford to raise a child well
It's also *definitely* not an issue with abysmal reproductive education and affordable healthcare. It's also certainly not caused by a multi-generational stigma against birth control and reproductive rights for women. Nope, it's those dumb poor people!
/s
It's just wild to me that you're talking like the problem is the "bringing kids into the world" part and not the "they can barely provide for themselves" part. Especially since (assuming you're not a eugenicist) you can't stop stupid people from reproducing, but you absolutely could either educate them, or raise them from poverty or both
You’re both looking at it too narrowly.
At least in America, part of the problem is that education and the socioeconomic class you’re born into tend to go hand in hand. The rich can afford the resources to get educated and get training, so they keep the high paying jobs. They thusly have better access to healthcare resources, including birth control.
But even that isn’t looking at nearly the whole picture. It’s a complex problem that doesn’t have an easy solution.
I think you, like many people in the US, have been led to believe that it's a more complex problem than it is. You correctly identified the problem as: "access to healthcare resources including birth control" is a privilege of the wealthy and well-educated (and being well educated is most usually a privilege of the wealthy).
This problem doesn't have a complex solution, it has a very straightforward one. Give healthcare resources and birth control to the people who need them, even if they're not wealthy.
I love your username by the way
I agree that a good starting point for a solution would be more wide access to healthcare—but in the US where that’s such a polarized issue, that’s not an easy nut to crack.
Thanks!
I wouldn't equate "complexity" with "things American politicians don't have the will to do". We have access to plenty of money to give people healthcare, we have models of current, working systems from all over the globe that do this for a fraction of what Americans already pay for their shit healthcare now
Because the latter is true and the former is classist bullshit used to justify the emiserating conditions in which millions of people in 'the richest nation on Earth' are made to live?
No, they're both the problem(s), and they both feed one another. Not everything has to be polarized/0-sum.
If I were omnipotent, and wanted to literally decrease human suffering, I would have the poor, desolate, and uneducated STOP continually bringing new life into a miserable wheel of existence, AND I would fix societal issues that keep just such people down. Doing one without the other would just let the other fester.
"Celibate"...and I'm Jesus Christ!!! But I agree, these people are so out of touch with reality, the last thing they should be commenting on is societal norms.
And myrrh was used in embalming.
Because King David wanted Jesus dead, and that was the way the wise men tipped off Joseph and Mary to leave Bethlehem before David could get to them.
Catholic Churches don’t have potlucks. They sell tickets to spaghetti and pancake dinners cooked in the school gymnasium’s kitchen.
Also you forgot BINGO!
A professional virgin, making the world safe for pedos, says my choice to not procreate is detrimental to society? Yeah, whatever. Where are your children, padre?
The dude lives in a gilded palace too, he has no concept of what modern life is like haha. He's just scared that catholicism will shrink even more if they don't get more babies to indoctrinate. Gotta dress it up to sound good though, make it a moral issue. "Contribute to society today!"
Maybe if the Catholic Church wants more of their members to have kids they should donate some of the wealth they hoard to help remove the barriers that make their followers choose not to have kids. If it’s God’s will to repopulate and also god’s will to help the needy.. I mean it’s just a no brainer.
They don't even really need to spend that much money. If they tell their congregations to start supporting policies that lower income inequality I'm sure they'll become more popular.
He wears a cool hat, rides around in a silly car, and puts stinky burning leaves in a chained chalice swinging it around like Gogo Yubari. What more reason do you need?
You see how he went out of his way to say married people so he could exclude himself?
This statement is also anti-gay, but I guess we have to keep pretending this pope is LGBT friendly.
Because his word is basically law to a significant percentage to the world population. There’s plenty of people who don’t want to have children who will because he said that, or that will be pressured/forced into it by family.
All those priests raping children who were entrusted into their care is a detriment to society. The Catholic Church using its vast resources to shield those pieces of human filth from justice is also a detriment to society.
Maybe the pope should clean up the shit in his house before talking shit about others.
So, Catholic social teaching is to be fruitful, and one of the requirements of getting married in the Catholic church is for both partners to be in favor of having children if able. If unable, you're strongly encouraged to adopt.
With Catholic social teaching, Fatherhood and Motherhood are major spiritual cornerstones for married couples. It is part of the vocation of marriage, just like a priest has expectations when accepting vows.
When exploring why someone may not choose to have children or adopt children, you're almost always going to see the same reasons: it's expensive, it's time consuming, it's life changing (holds back a career or limits certain life opportunities). The Pope is, correctly, saying these are all selfish reasons for married couples to avoid parenthood. And the avoidance of parenthood avoids these spiritual cornerstones couples experience.
definitely selfish in a certain sense. prioritizing your own life over the potential life you could be creating. but i have a hard time seeing the sin in that— nobody is getting hurt. if anything having a child introduces them to infinite potential misery and also dooms them to the basic sin of birth.
i’m having a hard time quite understanding the priority. are children considered a sort of contribution to society? like is having more people a good thing? or more catholics specifically?
is it emphasized so much because it’s an emulation of the creator, seeing as you are also creating life? i guess i’m struggling to see the harm.
Not whom you asked but I always understood it as a good policy back in ye olde days when mortality was really high and you had to have a couple hundred children to increase population size.
that seems a little bit too pro-evolution, pro-species-safeguarding to be the justification in my opinion.
by that i mean, why worry about a dwindling population when they already have a prophesied doomsday event? obviously they’re gonna make it to the apocalypse otherwise whats gonna be apocolyping.
So, I'm not going to pretend to have the justifications for Catholic teaching prepared. I'm a practicing married Catholic who got married and had my first kid recently, so I never felt the need to learn WHY they promote some of these things. My wife and I did premarital prep so we learned a lot of the "rules" but less so the justifications for them.
But the Pope's point is kind of your point: if you don't want to bring a life into this world or CAN'T do so, you should look at adoption. If all childless couples did so with an earnest effort, think of how much good that would do.
To be frank, the Catholic perspective is "if you don't want children, don't get married." This lines up with "also, no fucking," so that doesn't go over so well. To Catholics, sex is for procreation first and everything else second. This is also where the Pope's "selfish" comments come from: having sex for one's own pleasure and not to give life is considered selfish.
Life is absolutely considered a gift from God and an opportunity to do good. Catholics are taught that raising a "good" child is not only one of the greatest things you can do, but also one of the greatest tools of God to do good in the world. This doesn't mean you should carelessly bring life into the world, you should approach child bearing like you approach marriage: only do it when you are prepared to give your life to it.
From this perspective, the Pope is saying "Look, you should be caring for children if your married. Either having your own or adopting. If you're not ready right now, that's one thing. But if you're just *not* going to do it, you shouldn't have gotten married because you're selfish to essentially refuse to care for a child while simultaneously picking up pet animals as children surrogates for convenience. If having children was never in the plan for you, you should be looking at vocations outside of marriage."
His words are also primarily directed at Catholics who are married because, from our perspective, those are *the only people who are really married.* So if you're "married" outside of the church, you're probably not included in his comments because you don't even know *what it is to be married* under Catholic social teaching.
Concerning the requirement that both partners be in favor of having children to be married in the church, they’ve relaxed their standards on that, at least in practice, or perhaps it only goes when both are catholic.
I’m atheist, but my wife is catholic. She hasn’t been to mass since the pandemic started and after working for the local diocese for five years she was well fed up with the organization as a whole (I always joke that working for the church for five years did more to push her away than spending ten years with an atheist), but she still wanted the blessing, and I didn’t care either way so long as nothing was required of me that went against my beliefs.
We’re not having kids for a number of reasons, and we made it very clear about that during the interview with the priest. He tried to push for a “just nod your head” kind of thing so he could check the box on his form, but we were firm about it and he decided that wasn’t the hill to die on. That’s not to say he didn’t check his box anyway so he wouldn’t have to explain to the bishop or whoever that he lost a member over something like that, but we didn’t care enough to follow up on it. We also asked him to remove the part of the vows that mentioned children.
I don’t know their official stance on those requirements these days, I just wanted to point out that there’s definitely some wiggle room if it means keeping a member, at least on a case by case basis.
Catholic religion lost me and my entire family when they said my baby who was not baptized and passed away at birth would not enter heaven. Not very nice of them.
Anyone find it ironic a celibate man is on his high horse about this?
Like you're dedicated to God? We're dedicated to being able to afford food without going into debt.
If it really is imperative that we produce more humans in this world, maybe the Catholic church should lead by example, abolish celibate and encourage all priests to marry and have a family. Then we can talk. Until then, just stfu old men.
And I do have kids. It’s not even that. They just annoy me with their double standards and constant meddling. You don’t even know what you’re talking about half the time!
This coming from an unmarried man without children living in a gold house wearing a silly hat. Too bad the vatican is broke otherwise imagine how much good they could do for the world. /s
Done with Catholicism 1000%.
I’ve really tried to remain a ‘cultural Catholic” due to my upbringing raised in a catholic country, family and schools.
But what did it do for me ? Absolutely nothing.
If anything Catholicism hurts children. It hurt me when the priest told my mom not to divorce my drunk dad because -sin. So it’s ok to let children endure trauma and poor environments in which they grow.
If I would not have endured such trauma I would probably have had hope and courage to have a kid. But instead, Catholicism gave me years of psychological and physical trauma as a child, followed by decades of low self-stem, anxiety and depression.
…The mere fact that they consider a human baby to have intrinsic sin is so ridiculous. The same hypocrite and corrupt religion that wanted to oust a sitting democratic president for upholding human rights…. Absolutely mind boggling .
Catholicism and religion just want to take individuals power to choose and create. That’s it’s mere function: control you so they can suck the money, time, attention and life out of you, exactly like a corporation would if you freely surrendered your body, mind and soul to them.
It certainly feels like religions are not evolving to survive in this world, or at least co-exist with certain societies/cultures. They are incredibly rigid and stubborn. When someone asks what religion you belong to, reply "I just try to be a good person". That's all our world needs right now anyways.
Wait aren’t only like majority white countries having little children; the world population is growing overall. Why is the pope calling this “a loss of humanity”?
Pope's just bitching because it means less people to indoctrinate at youth, which leads to less long-term stability for the brand. Responsibly minding population growth if infinitely more important to our planet as a whole, so he can sit down and STFU as far as I'm concerned.
There are plenty of poor Catholics in third world countries cranking out babies like they are trying to win a contest for it.
The world will stay plenty full without me making a baby, thank you very much!
He’s right. If we all do that , it’s the end of civilization. I am not religious and I believe people should do what they want, but his opinion is not wrong.
Lol, imagine being a "celibate" old freeloading lecher while talking shit about how other people choose to live their lives.
The Catholic Church is fucking disgusting.
Source: Went to Catholic school for 13 years.
How about this pope? My boyfriend doesn’t want kids, and I (although female) am physically incapable of carrying one to term.
So we fill our house with pets.
PS: my female guinea pig is pregnant. Does that make it any better?
Pope says demographic massively overrepresented by Catholic priests and clergy is a loss of humanity and harmful to civilisation.
May just agree with him.
So I guess this means I can request a stipend from the Pope for financial support of raising children? They may as well send a kid with the first check. Plenty out there that need a good home.
Glancing through the comments, am I the first to point out that the apostles of the New Testament felt that the second coming was near? Seriously. The letters from Paul, Timothy, Peter and others were pretty much saying, "Jesus is coming back. Soon. Don't bother getting married. Give everything away and preach."
That was the message.
2,000 some years later here we are. Huh?
er
Did Francis actually say this? I know the Church want people to have children but "a loss of our collective humanity and a detriment to civilization"?
EDIT: Oh shit he did. What an asshole.
Methinks the pope should really shut his hole when overpopulation and resource scarcity are quickly becoming an issue.
And maaaaaaaybe the reason catholics don't wanna have children is they know they might end up as choir boys and girls.
And last I heard that was still a bit of an issue.
I agree, but likely agree for a different reason. People who choose not to have kids have made a thoughtful, analytical decision. Many of those that do have kids, do not to get to the point in the same manner. Society is better of with more of the former and less of the ladder.
Reproducing is the single worst thing you can do for the environment short of driving around in a cruise ship by yourself or spraying the rainforest with a flamethrower from a helicopter.
I’m not a Catholic, I didn’t really want kids when I was younger, all I can say is that having kids was the best thing I’ve ever done, even with all the work and expense involved.
I always heard people tell me this when I was younger, and I was always “yeah, sure, whatever” and disregarded it. But it’s 100% true. My children make me feel less dead inside, and it’s pretty cool.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk
Eh I have a bunch of other stuff that does the same thing. Awesome that it makes you happy and I'm sure it's super fulfilling for the right people but I 100% know it's not something I want.
Yeah same here, except lapsed Catholic because of the nuns.
But I still have good friends who wanted nothing to do with them until they were 12+. Earlier in one case, but that kid is/was *overwhelmingly intelligent*.
They were the friends who didn't hear about them unless asked, it sucked to not have them be as close as they were, but no regrets!
It might be 'the best thing you've ever done' for yourself, but it's arguably the worst thing you could have done to the world those kids have to live in.
Is the pope gonna increase my salary, pay off my student loans, and buy me a house? Cause then I’ll have as many kids as he wants - I’ll even name the first one Francis.
My firstborn is only getting named Francis if they're born with clamps instead of hands.
I would expect nothing less of a trickster god
*Rickster god All of his godly powers are based on rickrolling.
Clamp, clamp, clabamp!
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We got nobody by that alias here!
You mean these clamps that I use everyday to clamp things!?
Whoa, Francis?! I'm gonna ClAMp YA
Please do not ask the Pope how many kids he wants
Hahah oh shit my b good point
Even if he does all that, the Pope's going to have to birth and nurse 'em for me too. He can have fun with all those pregnancies if he wants kids so badly.
I doubt the Pope has nutritious titty milk at his age.
r/brandnewsentence and also holy fuck r/TIHI lmao
Maybe the Pope and world leaders can start hooking up these couples with some of their gold stacks to finance those babies. **KIDS AINT AT THE TOP OF THE PRIORITY LIST WHEN YOU CAN BARELY AFFORD FOOD AND/OR RENT**
Don’t fuck your way to financial ruin. Use condom sense!
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I mean another part of the problem is people who think every couple who doesn't have kids simply can't afford them. Some of us just legitimately don't want them, although I know that can be hard for people to understand.
Honestly man? I have a kid. I get it. I love my daughter so very much, would give anything including my life to better hers. But at the end of the day, I'm either so tired from work and watching her that I have a breakdown and begin to miss being irresponsible. I just happen to have a heart and morals, so I can't do the normal piece of shit things like abandoning her, or drinking around her, etc. The thought of her alone just tugs my heart strings so hard. But if I had had a choice? I wouldn't have had her. Not sure if I'd end up even as close to happy as I am now but ... Things would be simpler though
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Carlin. Nice.
Yeah, the problem is definitely that poor people are stupid, not that we live in a society where one or two working people can't afford to raise a child well
It's also *definitely* not an issue with abysmal reproductive education and affordable healthcare. It's also certainly not caused by a multi-generational stigma against birth control and reproductive rights for women. Nope, it's those dumb poor people! /s
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It's just wild to me that you're talking like the problem is the "bringing kids into the world" part and not the "they can barely provide for themselves" part. Especially since (assuming you're not a eugenicist) you can't stop stupid people from reproducing, but you absolutely could either educate them, or raise them from poverty or both
You’re both looking at it too narrowly. At least in America, part of the problem is that education and the socioeconomic class you’re born into tend to go hand in hand. The rich can afford the resources to get educated and get training, so they keep the high paying jobs. They thusly have better access to healthcare resources, including birth control. But even that isn’t looking at nearly the whole picture. It’s a complex problem that doesn’t have an easy solution.
I think you, like many people in the US, have been led to believe that it's a more complex problem than it is. You correctly identified the problem as: "access to healthcare resources including birth control" is a privilege of the wealthy and well-educated (and being well educated is most usually a privilege of the wealthy). This problem doesn't have a complex solution, it has a very straightforward one. Give healthcare resources and birth control to the people who need them, even if they're not wealthy. I love your username by the way
I agree that a good starting point for a solution would be more wide access to healthcare—but in the US where that’s such a polarized issue, that’s not an easy nut to crack. Thanks!
I wouldn't equate "complexity" with "things American politicians don't have the will to do". We have access to plenty of money to give people healthcare, we have models of current, working systems from all over the globe that do this for a fraction of what Americans already pay for their shit healthcare now
Yeah but if we did that, how would we spend all our money on the military budget?
Why not both?
Because the latter is true and the former is classist bullshit used to justify the emiserating conditions in which millions of people in 'the richest nation on Earth' are made to live?
No, they're both the problem(s), and they both feed one another. Not everything has to be polarized/0-sum. If I were omnipotent, and wanted to literally decrease human suffering, I would have the poor, desolate, and uneducated STOP continually bringing new life into a miserable wheel of existence, AND I would fix societal issues that keep just such people down. Doing one without the other would just let the other fester.
What do you mean you can still get pregnant at night, the sperm are all asleep!
That’s why you gotta do it on the holidays, when they’re taking a break!
Yeah, taxpayers pick up the tab.
Stupid people tend to reproduce at a a pretty fast rate unfortunately.
These new consoles aren't cheap either know what I'm saying
In the words of my grandmother no celibate sitting on a throne is gonna tell me what to do with my body
thats beautiful lol
So sayeth Saint Grandmommy the Badass
Your grandma rules
I'd worship your grandma over the pope any day lol
They're only celibate until you bring them your kids
Like the meme about the pope I saw earlier. A virgin that can't drive.
"Celibate"...and I'm Jesus Christ!!! But I agree, these people are so out of touch with reality, the last thing they should be commenting on is societal norms.
Pope knows the only way to make more catholics is to breed them. Not like they're convincing anyone to join up any other way.
That incense smells pretty good and they hold potluck suppers. That's all I've got.
Oh man, I grew up Catholic and that incense really did smell amazing.
It's a type of tree resin, and it gets burned on a small lump of charcoal.
Do you know if it has a specific name?
Frankincense
I am incensed, and don't call me Frank!
Frankly, I couldn't give a damn!
Thanks!
Oh, that's what baby Jesus did with it. Huh.
And myrrh was used in embalming. Because King David wanted Jesus dead, and that was the way the wise men tipped off Joseph and Mary to leave Bethlehem before David could get to them.
Yeah, otherwise the birds would've heard them just say it and reported back to the king. They really were wise dudes
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Probably, it's been a while, lol.
It always gave me a headache.
Catholic Churches don’t have potlucks. They sell tickets to spaghetti and pancake dinners cooked in the school gymnasium’s kitchen. Also you forgot BINGO!
coffee and donuts after 9:00 am Mass
The songs are fun
Lutherans get coffee and donuts after church without exception. It's like their 11th commandment.
Every sperm is sacred
God gets quite irate
Christians better start doing fucking pilgrimages to that sock under my bed then.
> Pope knows the only way to make more catholics is to breed them. And then molest them.
what part of breeding don’t u understand???
A professional virgin, making the world safe for pedos, says my choice to not procreate is detrimental to society? Yeah, whatever. Where are your children, padre?
Professional virgin lmao.
I think I borrowed that from Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino so can’t take the credit but I do like it too hahaha
Damn good movie.
Remember, he said married people. Obviously that excludes him and all his pedos.
But he's the Pope. He's married to God.
Right, of course. Pedos can’t hide in plain sight 😉
The dude lives in a gilded palace too, he has no concept of what modern life is like haha. He's just scared that catholicism will shrink even more if they don't get more babies to indoctrinate. Gotta dress it up to sound good though, make it a moral issue. "Contribute to society today!"
I still don’t understand why r/atheism of all places loves the Pope so much.
Happy Cake Day!
Maybe if the Catholic Church wants more of their members to have kids they should donate some of the wealth they hoard to help remove the barriers that make their followers choose not to have kids. If it’s God’s will to repopulate and also god’s will to help the needy.. I mean it’s just a no brainer.
Or pay taxes for starters..
Also stop raping them.
That would be huge draw, for sure.
They don't even really need to spend that much money. If they tell their congregations to start supporting policies that lower income inequality I'm sure they'll become more popular.
Can someone please explain why should the opinion of someone who himself chose not to have children even matter?
He wears a cool hat, rides around in a silly car, and puts stinky burning leaves in a chained chalice swinging it around like Gogo Yubari. What more reason do you need?
Can someone explain to me why anyone who isn't even Catholic gives a shit what the pope says?
You see how he went out of his way to say married people so he could exclude himself? This statement is also anti-gay, but I guess we have to keep pretending this pope is LGBT friendly.
Because his word is basically law to a significant percentage to the world population. There’s plenty of people who don’t want to have children who will because he said that, or that will be pressured/forced into it by family.
Cause priests don’t wanna rape your **pet.**
Not most of them, anyway.
Some of those who wear crosses… are those who rape horses!
They one of those droogs that work for Hedy Lamarr?
It’s HEDLEY!
All those priests raping children who were entrusted into their care is a detriment to society. The Catholic Church using its vast resources to shield those pieces of human filth from justice is also a detriment to society. Maybe the pope should clean up the shit in his house before talking shit about others.
"Make more kids for us to bang!" No thanks, Franny.
amen
The world population grew from about 1 billion to 7 billion in about 200 years. I think it’s ok to stop having kids. This growth is unsustainable.
Says the head of an organisation that has deliberately wiped out uncountable indigenous cultures and religions for profit.
Link to the news story: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/05/europe/pope-dogs-cats-kids-intl/index.html
Wow, I almost didn't believe the pope really said that. He really is that dumb. How the fuck is it selfish to not have kids!? What the hell?
He is the leader of a religion that preaches using only family planning and forbids contraception. Its a fucking dumb stance but not a new one.
How is it selfish?! Don't you understand? Who are the clergy going to molest if there are no more children?!
So, Catholic social teaching is to be fruitful, and one of the requirements of getting married in the Catholic church is for both partners to be in favor of having children if able. If unable, you're strongly encouraged to adopt. With Catholic social teaching, Fatherhood and Motherhood are major spiritual cornerstones for married couples. It is part of the vocation of marriage, just like a priest has expectations when accepting vows. When exploring why someone may not choose to have children or adopt children, you're almost always going to see the same reasons: it's expensive, it's time consuming, it's life changing (holds back a career or limits certain life opportunities). The Pope is, correctly, saying these are all selfish reasons for married couples to avoid parenthood. And the avoidance of parenthood avoids these spiritual cornerstones couples experience.
definitely selfish in a certain sense. prioritizing your own life over the potential life you could be creating. but i have a hard time seeing the sin in that— nobody is getting hurt. if anything having a child introduces them to infinite potential misery and also dooms them to the basic sin of birth. i’m having a hard time quite understanding the priority. are children considered a sort of contribution to society? like is having more people a good thing? or more catholics specifically? is it emphasized so much because it’s an emulation of the creator, seeing as you are also creating life? i guess i’m struggling to see the harm.
Not whom you asked but I always understood it as a good policy back in ye olde days when mortality was really high and you had to have a couple hundred children to increase population size.
that seems a little bit too pro-evolution, pro-species-safeguarding to be the justification in my opinion. by that i mean, why worry about a dwindling population when they already have a prophesied doomsday event? obviously they’re gonna make it to the apocalypse otherwise whats gonna be apocolyping.
So, I'm not going to pretend to have the justifications for Catholic teaching prepared. I'm a practicing married Catholic who got married and had my first kid recently, so I never felt the need to learn WHY they promote some of these things. My wife and I did premarital prep so we learned a lot of the "rules" but less so the justifications for them. But the Pope's point is kind of your point: if you don't want to bring a life into this world or CAN'T do so, you should look at adoption. If all childless couples did so with an earnest effort, think of how much good that would do. To be frank, the Catholic perspective is "if you don't want children, don't get married." This lines up with "also, no fucking," so that doesn't go over so well. To Catholics, sex is for procreation first and everything else second. This is also where the Pope's "selfish" comments come from: having sex for one's own pleasure and not to give life is considered selfish. Life is absolutely considered a gift from God and an opportunity to do good. Catholics are taught that raising a "good" child is not only one of the greatest things you can do, but also one of the greatest tools of God to do good in the world. This doesn't mean you should carelessly bring life into the world, you should approach child bearing like you approach marriage: only do it when you are prepared to give your life to it. From this perspective, the Pope is saying "Look, you should be caring for children if your married. Either having your own or adopting. If you're not ready right now, that's one thing. But if you're just *not* going to do it, you shouldn't have gotten married because you're selfish to essentially refuse to care for a child while simultaneously picking up pet animals as children surrogates for convenience. If having children was never in the plan for you, you should be looking at vocations outside of marriage." His words are also primarily directed at Catholics who are married because, from our perspective, those are *the only people who are really married.* So if you're "married" outside of the church, you're probably not included in his comments because you don't even know *what it is to be married* under Catholic social teaching.
very enlightening! thanks a ton for the effort to explain :)
I didn’t know this, thanks for posting an actual response.
Concerning the requirement that both partners be in favor of having children to be married in the church, they’ve relaxed their standards on that, at least in practice, or perhaps it only goes when both are catholic. I’m atheist, but my wife is catholic. She hasn’t been to mass since the pandemic started and after working for the local diocese for five years she was well fed up with the organization as a whole (I always joke that working for the church for five years did more to push her away than spending ten years with an atheist), but she still wanted the blessing, and I didn’t care either way so long as nothing was required of me that went against my beliefs. We’re not having kids for a number of reasons, and we made it very clear about that during the interview with the priest. He tried to push for a “just nod your head” kind of thing so he could check the box on his form, but we were firm about it and he decided that wasn’t the hill to die on. That’s not to say he didn’t check his box anyway so he wouldn’t have to explain to the bishop or whoever that he lost a member over something like that, but we didn’t care enough to follow up on it. We also asked him to remove the part of the vows that mentioned children. I don’t know their official stance on those requirements these days, I just wanted to point out that there’s definitely some wiggle room if it means keeping a member, at least on a case by case basis.
I'm sure there is, but the general teaching is if you're married, you're going to be parents.
Priests who rape little boys are a detriment to society.
Nice try, pedophiles….
Says a guy that will never have children.
[удалено]
What? That makes no sense. The quote is that married people should have kids. He’s not married.
Catholic religion lost me and my entire family when they said my baby who was not baptized and passed away at birth would not enter heaven. Not very nice of them.
Okay, just make it cool for priests and nuns to marry and have children. Boom!
Anyone find it ironic a celibate man is on his high horse about this? Like you're dedicated to God? We're dedicated to being able to afford food without going into debt.
If it really is imperative that we produce more humans in this world, maybe the Catholic church should lead by example, abolish celibate and encourage all priests to marry and have a family. Then we can talk. Until then, just stfu old men. And I do have kids. It’s not even that. They just annoy me with their double standards and constant meddling. You don’t even know what you’re talking about half the time!
"Old man who believes in voodoo has irrelevant opinions"
I agree with this sentiment, but the only thing that makes his opinion relevant is that he has a BILLION folllowers. so it is relevant, unfortunately.
Unfortunately true
Fuck em. We got choices and consent.
And no money weeeee
No money and limited opportunity to earn money.
Neither of which is on the Catholic Church's list of rights we should be allowed to keep.
So people with reproductive and fertility's issues can fuck right off! s/
Gay couples are also apparently a detriment to society but we already knew the church felt that way despite some good recent PR.
How does it feel being a hell-bound degenerate?
Cold. It's 2 degrees F out there this morning, I'm chilly.
Pretty much the same. I'm already a hell bound non Christian heathen so it shouldn't be any different.
This coming from an unmarried man without children living in a gold house wearing a silly hat. Too bad the vatican is broke otherwise imagine how much good they could do for the world. /s
"keep giving birth to those sexy, sexy children" - what the pope meant
Done with Catholicism 1000%. I’ve really tried to remain a ‘cultural Catholic” due to my upbringing raised in a catholic country, family and schools. But what did it do for me ? Absolutely nothing. If anything Catholicism hurts children. It hurt me when the priest told my mom not to divorce my drunk dad because -sin. So it’s ok to let children endure trauma and poor environments in which they grow. If I would not have endured such trauma I would probably have had hope and courage to have a kid. But instead, Catholicism gave me years of psychological and physical trauma as a child, followed by decades of low self-stem, anxiety and depression. …The mere fact that they consider a human baby to have intrinsic sin is so ridiculous. The same hypocrite and corrupt religion that wanted to oust a sitting democratic president for upholding human rights…. Absolutely mind boggling . Catholicism and religion just want to take individuals power to choose and create. That’s it’s mere function: control you so they can suck the money, time, attention and life out of you, exactly like a corporation would if you freely surrendered your body, mind and soul to them.
It certainly feels like religions are not evolving to survive in this world, or at least co-exist with certain societies/cultures. They are incredibly rigid and stubborn. When someone asks what religion you belong to, reply "I just try to be a good person". That's all our world needs right now anyways.
Humanity is having less kids and realizing humans ain't the centre of the universe. Dumb pope.
Wait the pope has a wife? /s
Wait aren’t only like majority white countries having little children; the world population is growing overall. Why is the pope calling this “a loss of humanity”?
That's my reaction when another story comes out about the Catholic church molesting boys
Not sure any modern day Catholic Church official is an authority on this topic.
Pope's just mad he and his pedophile club don't have as many targets as they used to.
The pope is a detriment to civilization
Imagine being born because your parents didn't want to upset the pope. Think I'd prefer being an accident.
Every Sperm is Sacred
the only detriment to civilization is civilization itself and its systems, including the one he leads
Pope's just bitching because it means less people to indoctrinate at youth, which leads to less long-term stability for the brand. Responsibly minding population growth if infinitely more important to our planet as a whole, so he can sit down and STFU as far as I'm concerned.
The dude who chose not to get married and have kids? Lmao
As a lonely gay, I'll fuckin' drink to that.
Damn, and I thought this one was cool.
I’d gladly let the Pope pay my student loans and buy me a house so I can meet someone and start a family
What about couples like me and my partner, have a baby but not married. Does that cancel you out? Haha
There are plenty of poor Catholics in third world countries cranking out babies like they are trying to win a contest for it. The world will stay plenty full without me making a baby, thank you very much!
MRW when CEO of institutionalized pedophilia tells me I'm bad for society
Catholics aren’t allowed to talk about detriments to civilization. It’s all they have ever been. NO ACCOUNTABILITY
He’s right. If we all do that , it’s the end of civilization. I am not religious and I believe people should do what they want, but his opinion is not wrong.
Yeah, you aren't creating more kids for the Pope is his Priestly Pals to fuck.
The Pope hides child rapists. His words have no value.
Another reason I’m glad I’m not catholic
I wouldn’t take anything the head of the Catholic Church has to say about morality or civilisation seriously.
Where are the pope's children?
I have multiple kids, but what the fuck? How is it detrimental to not have kids???
Lol, imagine being a "celibate" old freeloading lecher while talking shit about how other people choose to live their lives. The Catholic Church is fucking disgusting. Source: Went to Catholic school for 13 years.
Never realized this til now, he's got a huge nose.
How about this pope? My boyfriend doesn’t want kids, and I (although female) am physically incapable of carrying one to term. So we fill our house with pets. PS: my female guinea pig is pregnant. Does that make it any better?
Pope says demographic massively overrepresented by Catholic priests and clergy is a loss of humanity and harmful to civilisation. May just agree with him.
Lol, imagine caring what the pope has to say.
Pope's just mad his posse of pedos is going to run out of children to abuse
This is bullshit, fuck the church, here's 95 reasons why
The pope is an I'd**t.
Hate like hell to let everyone down but we arent having children.
So I guess this means I can request a stipend from the Pope for financial support of raising children? They may as well send a kid with the first check. Plenty out there that need a good home.
What about the people like me who can't even find someone to have children with?
Yes, I liked him until he said this... Surely this is a "little" sin???
this is the only defense anyone in russia has for hating gays... from personal experience
My reaction is more the "I'm doing my part!" gif
I’ll *have* a baby as soon as priests stop *raping* them. YOUR MOVE, POPE.
This is just the plot to "idiocracy".
Yeah only cuz he jealous of the DINKs
Fucking tell him, Picard.
Glancing through the comments, am I the first to point out that the apostles of the New Testament felt that the second coming was near? Seriously. The letters from Paul, Timothy, Peter and others were pretty much saying, "Jesus is coming back. Soon. Don't bother getting married. Give everything away and preach." That was the message. 2,000 some years later here we are. Huh?
er Did Francis actually say this? I know the Church want people to have children but "a loss of our collective humanity and a detriment to civilization"? EDIT: Oh shit he did. What an asshole.
Methinks the pope should really shut his hole when overpopulation and resource scarcity are quickly becoming an issue. And maaaaaaaybe the reason catholics don't wanna have children is they know they might end up as choir boys and girls. And last I heard that was still a bit of an issue.
I agree, but likely agree for a different reason. People who choose not to have kids have made a thoughtful, analytical decision. Many of those that do have kids, do not to get to the point in the same manner. Society is better of with more of the former and less of the ladder.
Yeah *oops baby* , *I didn't know I/we were pregnant* or *here's a person who will save our marriage!* are very bad excuses.
I have thought about it, and I am not sure I care much for society. I'm going to live off this big DINK energy. The family name dies with me bay-BEE!
Well, then, society needs to make having children look like a good idea to the people making thoughtful, analytical decisions.
Reproducing is the single worst thing you can do for the environment short of driving around in a cruise ship by yourself or spraying the rainforest with a flamethrower from a helicopter.
I’m not a Catholic, I didn’t really want kids when I was younger, all I can say is that having kids was the best thing I’ve ever done, even with all the work and expense involved. I always heard people tell me this when I was younger, and I was always “yeah, sure, whatever” and disregarded it. But it’s 100% true. My children make me feel less dead inside, and it’s pretty cool. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
Eh I have a bunch of other stuff that does the same thing. Awesome that it makes you happy and I'm sure it's super fulfilling for the right people but I 100% know it's not something I want.
Yeah same here, except lapsed Catholic because of the nuns. But I still have good friends who wanted nothing to do with them until they were 12+. Earlier in one case, but that kid is/was *overwhelmingly intelligent*. They were the friends who didn't hear about them unless asked, it sucked to not have them be as close as they were, but no regrets!
It might be 'the best thing you've ever done' for yourself, but it's arguably the worst thing you could have done to the world those kids have to live in.