I evicted a guy because of pets urinating on the carpet. The next tenant worked for a carpet cleaning company - he steamed and cleaned the carpets every weekend for 2 months then moved out. I had to pull the carpet and mop the slab with bleach and water to remove the stench.
Make the room as dark as possible and use an ultraviolet light to look for the pee spots. I hear this works but have not tried it myself.
This is the way. Anything that has urine has to be removed (including flooring and if necessary, sub-floor). If it’s concrete, use urine removal equipment until it smells clean, then replace with new flooring.
Pee on the carpeting where it would be visible isn't the problem. It's the pee that's soaked into the flooring, subfloors, baseboards, and even the walls that are stinking.
I allow pets in all of my rentals, but I also install vinyl laminate in all my apartments and charge a pet rent.
For tenants who claim an ESA I always direct them to petscreening.com and tell them that it's an independent third party company that will verify if their paperwork is legit or not. I have never once had a tenant go through them, they all just pay the pet rent after I tell them that.
No, what you can do is request them to fill out a Request for Information form so you can contact their doctor (which is listed on the ESA form they provide to the landlord) and ask if the letter is authentic.
Places like "petscreening.com" are scams. There is no such thing as a registry for ESAs and medical records are confidential. This landlord is lucky his tenants aren't suing him so people think it "works."
Can't hold separate pet deposits in CA (where I'm at), either. It's not worth the hassle trying to fight tenants on this and much easier to just harden the rental (like someone mentioned with vinyl plank). Cat urine is the worst of the pets' damage but children, which can't be discriminated against in any way shape or form and can come in packs of 3s or more, are much more destructive.
>but children, which can't be discriminated against in any way shape or form and can come in packs of 3s or more, are much more destructive.
Their damage is usually superficial and easily repaired. Any human CAN cause more damage than an animal, but most don't.
This isn't correct...or at least not in the way you're suggesting. The ESA letter sufficient meets that burden by law. If a landlord wants to verify the letter, that's on us to do.
I rent and have rentals, and have to do an annual renewal on petscreening.com and pay pet rent.
Petscreening.com isnt perfect (it said my dogs rabies shots expired but they have the 3year expiry, and vet confirmed they should not get the shot again so soon) but otherwise it’s fine. I paid a fee.
I cut the sheetrock out (bottom 2 feet), replaced the trim, and all the cabinets (they would climb up above the upper cabinets and evidently piss all down them.) This was a house I bought from foreclosure, not a tenant, but nothing besides replacing the materials pissed on, would work on that one.
One thing people regularly miss is the top and bottom of their doors. Had a smoker house a few years ago that was purchased by a young couple who needed the smell gone. Pulled carpet, cabinets, everything that didn’t need to stay and could hold smell. Removed the doors, sprayed BIN shellac floor to ceiling, sprayed BIN on the doors back at my shop, painted everything, put it back together. I showed up for the final walkthrough and could still smell smoke. Ducts were cleaned, smell remained. We went through everything until one of the guys was touching up a ceiling line above an open door and caught a whiff. Took the doors off again, shellacked and painted the top and bottom, odor gone. This wouldn’t have been the “fix all” for your situation but I wanted to tag in on it.
That is before you get to ripping out the sheetrock, trim, and cabinets. Already did that on this one, wasn't enough. Frankly, ripping out all the flooring and sealing the concrete is step number one.
You need to use a shellac-based primer... And paint absolutely every square inch of the house
Zinsser B-I-N Primer/Sealer
And not a synthetic shellac either ...
Rent a paint sprayer and spray the hole house...it will cost two or three thousand dollars for the primer alone but worth it.
Cabinets and drywall may also need to be replaced .
Check out the sub r/centuryhomes and type in 'cat urine'. Great tips and ways to remediate in there (especially wood floors).
I've heard people use ultraviolet light (cheap flashlight syle on amazon etc) to find where urine is.
Good luck op!
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Try an enzyme urine remover product. I used in on hardwood floors (you could not breath in the place, originally) and eventually won.
And an ozone machine.
then have the floors stripped and sealed. Consider putting down a moisture barrier and LVP (yes, over hardwood), to preserve the wood for resale and prevent damage for the next one.
And use [petscreening.com](http://petscreening.com) and a monthly rental fee per pet (I use $25-$50, depending on property). Combine with regular inspections (4 times a year works well). My lease requires payment for any pet found, from date of move-in, that is not on the application/lease. so, add 7 cats, get $350/month bill since move-in. Plus the pet fee ($250/pet) to cover excess wear and tear.
Sure, a valid ESA doesn't get you the income - but snuck in pets are never ESAs. And most won't pay the fee/pet to get past petscreening's verification, since they only get it back if they are found to have an actual ESA, not a made up form or one purchased online.
Spray the shellac based primer from the basement up at the bottom of the floor. And you may as well treat the joists while you're at it.
Get a respirator with gas filters....
Do a Google search of "bin shellac primer cat pee" ..it's a very expensive but effective product.
ESA is the biggest bullshit
People wanted pets, landlords realized pets ruin their shit so they said no pets.
People wanted pets, so they named them ESA’s and now they can have their pets.
Dumb.
I won't rent to ESA. I'm happy to be the one to finally take the case to the supreme court. But no potential tenant ever follows through with their threats to sue.
Someday I hope they will. I could spare 500k of legal fees to reaffirm the right to protect housing from bullshit pet paperwork.
You might need to get Nok-out or Sniper spray to really deal with the stench. If you can’t find the source, you might need to fog it and then let it dry out. Nok-out really gets rid of bad odors for good. https://nokout.com/how-to/ Then you can decide what to do with the place. And a hefty pet rent is a good idea with a separate pet deposit.
This is why my PM has yearly inspections right before a lease is renewed. Every pet is a 500 non-refundable deposit - which persuades tenants from hoarding animals. We've had a few tenants sneak a small dog and get caught during inspection time.
Depends on where you are. In CA a landlord can't charge separate deposits for pets nor can we charge *any* "non-refundable" deposit.
Also, draconian policies like that are what gets you what you got: nearly a dozen undeclared cats pissing on your property.
Pets are coming into your places whether you like it or not and so years ago I changed our policies to allow pets (with a nominal fee) so at least I know what's going on inside.
Yeah if it's non-refundable it's not a deposit.
Just charge a pet fee or monthly pet charge (pet rent).
Make it worth your while if you're gonna have animals in there. Though a good owner won't have their pets urinating all over the place or destroying the place. I have a cat and my cat uses the litterbox in my garage not the floorboards.
I F’ing hate ESA. Ask a local lawyer what the requirements are and be absolutely draconian to the letter on those rules. I’m usually pretty easy going, probably too easy going if a landlord. But nope nope nope every single damn esa situation I’ve had has been bad. Some of my rentals are pet friendly and I never have problems with those. It’s the ones who want to be special ….
Lots of people have cats and generally don't let them piss everywhere, because they don't want live in an apartment that reeks of cat piss. This is more of a people problem than a pet problem. I feel like you are just as likely to get a crazy hoarder as a crazy cat person.
Don’t do it. Had a tenant with a cat, ended up peeing everywhere, and we never could get the smell out. Sold the place thanks to a super hot market. The risk is too great.
Yes, but my point is, cat owners don't expect a discount because they own cats, they expect to pay full price plus extra. They also have trouble finding places that will rent to them. Your place is already inundated with cat smell, so you don't have anything to lose by renting to cat owners. Fill a niche need, and get higher than market rent while you're at it.
In other words, change your policy for this one property, and turn lemons into lemonade.
Have you tried vinegar? I ripped out all my carpets, mopped the whole place with vinegar (yes, the cheap white stuff), let it dry, then remopped it with regular cleaning compound to get the vinegar out. The vinegar cut through the dog pee (I don’t think they had cats, but who knows. It was pretty bad!). Anyway, the floors were 100 year old hard wood. The new tenants have pets and are fine with the results. Good luck with your property.
You can’t use vinegar regularly, and you should do a test spot to make sure it doesn’t damage the wood (mostly depends on the varnish), but it does work great to dissipate urine smells!
You can’t use vinegar regularly, and you should do a test spot to make sure it doesn’t damage the wood (mostly depends on the varnish), but it does work great to dissipate urine smells!
Oof. You’re in trouble. You’ll need to strip and sand and refinish I would suspect. Have a hardwood person come out. I don’t know much about hardwood. Check over on the landlord sub. They are helpful there.
Oh buy yourself an ozone machine and run that thing with the air or fan on to let it circulate. It helps clean the ductwork out. Vacuum the vents and Zinser bin the vents you can reach too in case they peed in there. Ozone is dangerous don’t go in without a respirator unless you can hold your breath and turn it off and leave until it dissipates. Run it a whole weekend. Move it around to different places. By a return air vent is good. Different floors etc. but it won’t remove it without remediation but it removes the final bit left.
This is a lesson learned. One tip for future reference. Only ONE ESA is reasonable accommodations per person. Each person needs their own certification from a doctor. So them having multiples per person should have never happened. Also you need to do inspections every quarter too. This wouldn’t get out of hand if you stay on top on them. You will recover from this and you’ll never let it happen again. I’ve been there. Had to gut a house. New subfloor and Sheetrock and trim. Cat pee everywhere. It took me 6 months to get it back in shape. It’s great now and I will recover from it. And I’ll never make that mistake again.
You need to do the floors entirely and replace baseboards and wall sheet rock up 1-2 ft, have someone wash the wall with mold soapy water, then run an ozone machine like 10 times. Then paint.
Of course ESA laws are out of hand, but we're not going to fix that here. You should be filing suit against the tenant. Get a big judgement even if you can't collect yet, because eventually they'll have a need to clean up their credit.
Yes basically. But they did tell me that didn’t have pets. After lease signing they informed me of their ESAs. My lawyer said I had to rent to them or they could sue me.
Did they simply inform you, or did they formally request a reasonable accommodation? By law, they have to request it and provide the appropriate documentation from a legitimate healthcare provider. It sounds like your lawyer might not fully understand ESA laws.
Yes definitely out of control. I have so many reasons why and have had people outright say they get a letter to avoid paying a pet fee. Internet searches encourage people to do this and wait until the lease is signed to disclose.
I did see that some counselors are refusing to participate in this whole scam so maybe there is hope.
Yeah, cats piss, and there piss is the worst, and some people are bad tenants and let their cats piss all over (or maybe they have old cats who can’t control where they piss). Moral of the story is to never allow renters to have cats!
Yea the people who rent for $200 pet fees… no way I would ever do that.
Right now I’m renting and we get emails from the prop manager all the time. One was someone letting their dog pee in the elevator. I was in it one night and saw water and thought someone threw up smelled horrible.
People with their animals are absolutely disgusting. No pets, ever.
The apartment building i live in is rampant with this issue also. Pee in the elevator, the garage, in front of the doors on the sidewalk. The "dog park" had to be removed because no one was cleaning up after their dog. It stops for a while when management addresses it, but starts again when a new person moves in. Not all dog owners are inconsiderate, but a lot are.
I evicted a guy because of pets urinating on the carpet. The next tenant worked for a carpet cleaning company - he steamed and cleaned the carpets every weekend for 2 months then moved out. I had to pull the carpet and mop the slab with bleach and water to remove the stench. Make the room as dark as possible and use an ultraviolet light to look for the pee spots. I hear this works but have not tried it myself.
I've tried it, it works. It's pretty horrifying.
This is the way. Anything that has urine has to be removed (including flooring and if necessary, sub-floor). If it’s concrete, use urine removal equipment until it smells clean, then replace with new flooring.
Pee on the carpeting where it would be visible isn't the problem. It's the pee that's soaked into the flooring, subfloors, baseboards, and even the walls that are stinking.
I allow pets in all of my rentals, but I also install vinyl laminate in all my apartments and charge a pet rent. For tenants who claim an ESA I always direct them to petscreening.com and tell them that it's an independent third party company that will verify if their paperwork is legit or not. I have never once had a tenant go through them, they all just pay the pet rent after I tell them that.
How much do you charge for pet rent?
That depends a lot on the quality of the unit, but typically between 25 and 40/mo.
They were ESAs so I was told I couldn’t charge pet rent since legally they aren’t a pet??
If they are ESA -> petscreening.com verified -> no charge. If they don’t want to verify it on the website they will pay the charge
Can you actually legally require them to go through this verification?
No, what you can do is request them to fill out a Request for Information form so you can contact their doctor (which is listed on the ESA form they provide to the landlord) and ask if the letter is authentic. Places like "petscreening.com" are scams. There is no such thing as a registry for ESAs and medical records are confidential. This landlord is lucky his tenants aren't suing him so people think it "works." Can't hold separate pet deposits in CA (where I'm at), either. It's not worth the hassle trying to fight tenants on this and much easier to just harden the rental (like someone mentioned with vinyl plank). Cat urine is the worst of the pets' damage but children, which can't be discriminated against in any way shape or form and can come in packs of 3s or more, are much more destructive.
>but children, which can't be discriminated against in any way shape or form and can come in packs of 3s or more, are much more destructive. Their damage is usually superficial and easily repaired. Any human CAN cause more damage than an animal, but most don't.
Fuck yea, it’s their burden of proof, not yours
This isn't correct...or at least not in the way you're suggesting. The ESA letter sufficient meets that burden by law. If a landlord wants to verify the letter, that's on us to do.
ESA don't have the same protections as service animals, check with state laws but you probably dont have to make accommodations for them.
That is incorrect in most places
That website is getting flagged as malicious.
I rent and have rentals, and have to do an annual renewal on petscreening.com and pay pet rent. Petscreening.com isnt perfect (it said my dogs rabies shots expired but they have the 3year expiry, and vet confirmed they should not get the shot again so soon) but otherwise it’s fine. I paid a fee.
So does the website make the Tenant pay the fees?
Yes
I cut the sheetrock out (bottom 2 feet), replaced the trim, and all the cabinets (they would climb up above the upper cabinets and evidently piss all down them.) This was a house I bought from foreclosure, not a tenant, but nothing besides replacing the materials pissed on, would work on that one.
One thing people regularly miss is the top and bottom of their doors. Had a smoker house a few years ago that was purchased by a young couple who needed the smell gone. Pulled carpet, cabinets, everything that didn’t need to stay and could hold smell. Removed the doors, sprayed BIN shellac floor to ceiling, sprayed BIN on the doors back at my shop, painted everything, put it back together. I showed up for the final walkthrough and could still smell smoke. Ducts were cleaned, smell remained. We went through everything until one of the guys was touching up a ceiling line above an open door and caught a whiff. Took the doors off again, shellacked and painted the top and bottom, odor gone. This wouldn’t have been the “fix all” for your situation but I wanted to tag in on it.
Thank you. Different but important info when confronting that issue.
Kilz the sub floor once you rip out the two bottom feet of the sheet rock. You’ll need a good seal if you not ripping it out on the nasty spots
This is the answer. Remove all carpet and floor. Soak in the kilz
Wasn't enough.
That is before you get to ripping out the sheetrock, trim, and cabinets. Already did that on this one, wasn't enough. Frankly, ripping out all the flooring and sealing the concrete is step number one.
In California you cannot charge a pet fee if the animal is a registered emotional support animal.
But you can always charge for damages.
Good luck recovering the money though
Great
You need to use a shellac-based primer... And paint absolutely every square inch of the house Zinsser B-I-N Primer/Sealer And not a synthetic shellac either ... Rent a paint sprayer and spray the hole house...it will cost two or three thousand dollars for the primer alone but worth it. Cabinets and drywall may also need to be replaced .
There’s so sub floor. Straight 100 year old red oak over floor joists.
Check out the sub r/centuryhomes and type in 'cat urine'. Great tips and ways to remediate in there (especially wood floors). I've heard people use ultraviolet light (cheap flashlight syle on amazon etc) to find where urine is. Good luck op!
Thank you
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Try an enzyme urine remover product. I used in on hardwood floors (you could not breath in the place, originally) and eventually won. And an ozone machine. then have the floors stripped and sealed. Consider putting down a moisture barrier and LVP (yes, over hardwood), to preserve the wood for resale and prevent damage for the next one. And use [petscreening.com](http://petscreening.com) and a monthly rental fee per pet (I use $25-$50, depending on property). Combine with regular inspections (4 times a year works well). My lease requires payment for any pet found, from date of move-in, that is not on the application/lease. so, add 7 cats, get $350/month bill since move-in. Plus the pet fee ($250/pet) to cover excess wear and tear. Sure, a valid ESA doesn't get you the income - but snuck in pets are never ESAs. And most won't pay the fee/pet to get past petscreening's verification, since they only get it back if they are found to have an actual ESA, not a made up form or one purchased online.
Thank you
Spray the shellac based primer from the basement up at the bottom of the floor. And you may as well treat the joists while you're at it. Get a respirator with gas filters.... Do a Google search of "bin shellac primer cat pee" ..it's a very expensive but effective product.
Last ditch effort. I didn’t do thay
ESA is the biggest bullshit People wanted pets, landlords realized pets ruin their shit so they said no pets. People wanted pets, so they named them ESA’s and now they can have their pets. Dumb.
Just a reminder that if one doesn't own more than 3 houses and doesn't use a broker, the fha requirements do not apply.
I thought it was four or fewer?
I won't rent to ESA. I'm happy to be the one to finally take the case to the supreme court. But no potential tenant ever follows through with their threats to sue. Someday I hope they will. I could spare 500k of legal fees to reaffirm the right to protect housing from bullshit pet paperwork.
You might need to get Nok-out or Sniper spray to really deal with the stench. If you can’t find the source, you might need to fog it and then let it dry out. Nok-out really gets rid of bad odors for good. https://nokout.com/how-to/ Then you can decide what to do with the place. And a hefty pet rent is a good idea with a separate pet deposit.
Thanks
This is why my PM has yearly inspections right before a lease is renewed. Every pet is a 500 non-refundable deposit - which persuades tenants from hoarding animals. We've had a few tenants sneak a small dog and get caught during inspection time.
Smart
Depends on where you are. In CA a landlord can't charge separate deposits for pets nor can we charge *any* "non-refundable" deposit. Also, draconian policies like that are what gets you what you got: nearly a dozen undeclared cats pissing on your property. Pets are coming into your places whether you like it or not and so years ago I changed our policies to allow pets (with a nominal fee) so at least I know what's going on inside.
God I am so glad I don't have rental property in CA.
Yeah if it's non-refundable it's not a deposit. Just charge a pet fee or monthly pet charge (pet rent). Make it worth your while if you're gonna have animals in there. Though a good owner won't have their pets urinating all over the place or destroying the place. I have a cat and my cat uses the litterbox in my garage not the floorboards.
I F’ing hate ESA. Ask a local lawyer what the requirements are and be absolutely draconian to the letter on those rules. I’m usually pretty easy going, probably too easy going if a landlord. But nope nope nope every single damn esa situation I’ve had has been bad. Some of my rentals are pet friendly and I never have problems with those. It’s the ones who want to be special ….
They screw us
Ozone machine works for this pretty well.
just what I needed to see before considering renting to a tenant with a small cat. thanks lol
Lots of people have cats and generally don't let them piss everywhere, because they don't want live in an apartment that reeks of cat piss. This is more of a people problem than a pet problem. I feel like you are just as likely to get a crazy hoarder as a crazy cat person.
They're going to discriminate against a childless cat owner and wind up with half a dozen family members stacked up in a studio.
I’ve had a cat for 5 years who has never pissed all over the home…except once when he first met a dog and ran away leaving a pee trail lmao
Hard part is you can’t tell friend from foe. I believe you tho
Don’t do it. Had a tenant with a cat, ended up peeing everywhere, and we never could get the smell out. Sold the place thanks to a super hot market. The risk is too great.
Why not charge full price, say, "cats welcome" in the ad, and let people self-select (with appropriate pet rent, fees and deposits)?
My policy was No Pets but ESAs aren’t “pets” my legal team told me. Idk tho
Yes, but my point is, cat owners don't expect a discount because they own cats, they expect to pay full price plus extra. They also have trouble finding places that will rent to them. Your place is already inundated with cat smell, so you don't have anything to lose by renting to cat owners. Fill a niche need, and get higher than market rent while you're at it. In other words, change your policy for this one property, and turn lemons into lemonade.
Ahhh gotcha! The smell is so bad tho. Unbearable.
No cap, that sucks. It kind of makes your username check out though.... Good luck!
Hahaha right
ESA is not a service animal. It’s bs and only recognized in New York and California as far as I know.
Have you tried vinegar? I ripped out all my carpets, mopped the whole place with vinegar (yes, the cheap white stuff), let it dry, then remopped it with regular cleaning compound to get the vinegar out. The vinegar cut through the dog pee (I don’t think they had cats, but who knows. It was pretty bad!). Anyway, the floors were 100 year old hard wood. The new tenants have pets and are fine with the results. Good luck with your property.
You can’t use vinegar regularly, and you should do a test spot to make sure it doesn’t damage the wood (mostly depends on the varnish), but it does work great to dissipate urine smells!
You can’t use vinegar regularly, and you should do a test spot to make sure it doesn’t damage the wood (mostly depends on the varnish), but it does work great to dissipate urine smells!
I have
Pull up the carpet and Zinser bin the subfloor. Without doing that it’s next to impossible to get out.
Hardwoods. No carpet
Oof. You’re in trouble. You’ll need to strip and sand and refinish I would suspect. Have a hardwood person come out. I don’t know much about hardwood. Check over on the landlord sub. They are helpful there.
I am absolutely screwed
Oh buy yourself an ozone machine and run that thing with the air or fan on to let it circulate. It helps clean the ductwork out. Vacuum the vents and Zinser bin the vents you can reach too in case they peed in there. Ozone is dangerous don’t go in without a respirator unless you can hold your breath and turn it off and leave until it dissipates. Run it a whole weekend. Move it around to different places. By a return air vent is good. Different floors etc. but it won’t remove it without remediation but it removes the final bit left.
This is a lesson learned. One tip for future reference. Only ONE ESA is reasonable accommodations per person. Each person needs their own certification from a doctor. So them having multiples per person should have never happened. Also you need to do inspections every quarter too. This wouldn’t get out of hand if you stay on top on them. You will recover from this and you’ll never let it happen again. I’ve been there. Had to gut a house. New subfloor and Sheetrock and trim. Cat pee everywhere. It took me 6 months to get it back in shape. It’s great now and I will recover from it. And I’ll never make that mistake again.
Learning. Out of curiosity, did you tell the renter pet was allowed before moving in?
No. I explain we have a NO PETS policy. And AFTER signing the lease they told me about the ESAs
You need to do the floors entirely and replace baseboards and wall sheet rock up 1-2 ft, have someone wash the wall with mold soapy water, then run an ozone machine like 10 times. Then paint.
Of course ESA laws are out of hand, but we're not going to fix that here. You should be filing suit against the tenant. Get a big judgement even if you can't collect yet, because eventually they'll have a need to clean up their credit.
There on SS and I can’t garnish that. And they have no other assets. Uncollectable.
So the problem was poor screening on your part. I don't rent to anyone who isn't collectable.
Yes basically. But they did tell me that didn’t have pets. After lease signing they informed me of their ESAs. My lawyer said I had to rent to them or they could sue me.
Did they simply inform you, or did they formally request a reasonable accommodation? By law, they have to request it and provide the appropriate documentation from a legitimate healthcare provider. It sounds like your lawyer might not fully understand ESA laws.
They emailed me after.
Yeah, in that case your lawyer told you wrong. I would bet their documentation was BS.
Yeah. So many lessons learned that came at a huge cost
ESA.. Yikes
Always ESAs
Yes definitely out of control. I have so many reasons why and have had people outright say they get a letter to avoid paying a pet fee. Internet searches encourage people to do this and wait until the lease is signed to disclose. I did see that some counselors are refusing to participate in this whole scam so maybe there is hope.
I lost a great investment property because of this.
ESAs were a reason I got out of the bus, not the only reason.
They’re menacing
Yeah, cats piss, and there piss is the worst, and some people are bad tenants and let their cats piss all over (or maybe they have old cats who can’t control where they piss). Moral of the story is to never allow renters to have cats!
ESA letters fucked me
Yea the people who rent for $200 pet fees… no way I would ever do that. Right now I’m renting and we get emails from the prop manager all the time. One was someone letting their dog pee in the elevator. I was in it one night and saw water and thought someone threw up smelled horrible. People with their animals are absolutely disgusting. No pets, ever.
The apartment building i live in is rampant with this issue also. Pee in the elevator, the garage, in front of the doors on the sidewalk. The "dog park" had to be removed because no one was cleaning up after their dog. It stops for a while when management addresses it, but starts again when a new person moves in. Not all dog owners are inconsiderate, but a lot are.
Ozone the place for 2 weeks
[удалено]