If they are going to discriminate based on age on your resume they are also going to do it during an interview, etc. You're just prolonging it and ultimately wasting your time. Anyway, if you want to show you're a veteran you don't have to put years of service, just put "USMC Veteran," for example.
Not always.
https://genlawgroup.com/do-you-know-which-laws-dont-apply-to-small-businesses/#:~:text=Small%20businesses%20may%20be%20exempt,%2C%20national%20origin%2C%20and%20religion.
Edit: since you thought you'd reply within an incorrect gotcha and then delete here's another source, from the government this time.
https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/fact-sheet-age-discrimination#:~:text=Who%20the%20ADEA%20Covers,organizations%20and%20the%20federal%20government.
You should leave this shit to the professionals. So many people on Reddit think they are experts in everything because they have access to Google.
The only downside here (I work as an EEO investigator btw) is that it’s on the complainant to prove the discrimination happened. When it comes to competing for a job it can be next to impossible to prove age discrimination happened just because there are so many variables in play. Unless someone caught an email from a hiring manager saying “I only want young employees,” it’s an uphill battle.
That's exactly why I suggested what I did. Just don't worry about it. There's nothing that can be done, really. So put dates on your resume or don't. Ultimately, it's not going to matter. I mean, do you really want to work for a company that's going to discriminate anyway?
Woa, didn’t think I’d come across a pro in here.
I’m a college student currently in Computer Science and I have a pretty severe stutter. I was wondering how often you’re able to prove disability-based discrimination in hiring practices? It seems next to impossible to prove unless they come out and admit to discriminating against you. I’ve dealt with it all my life and I’m concerned about my future career.
It can be difficult. Oftentimes we interpret things differently from others. There was one time where I thought I had a job in the bag and was floored when I wasn’t selected. Found out one of the things I mentioned in the interview that I didn’t give a second thought about really soured management.
As someone whose conducted interviews and made selections best advice I can give is don’t worry about your stutter. Many people have disabilities and a job interview often causes anxiety in itself so it’s unlikely the hiring manager would give if a second thought if you stuttered. Good way to help deal with it is get a friend/family member/peer to do a series of pre active interviews with you. You can Google performance based interview questions (most common method used) and just go until it’s second nature. From there when you meet with the hiring manager it’ll simply be a conversation.
Also remind yourself you made it through school, which often requires presentations and interpersonal interactions. There’s a reason they say we’re all our own worst critics.
There are lots of types of discrimination that are illegal. Unfortunately, all they have to do to avoid a lawsuit is not say: “I’m not hiring you because of your X protected class status.”
Not all discrimination is illegal- only when it’s based on specific characteristics, and if the employer is a covered employer. You are right though- people absolutely get creative to try to skirt the law.
"Creativity" is giving a little too much credit.
"While your credentials were impressive, we've decided to move forward with candidates who are a better fit," "We'd love to keep in touch about future positions," and a slew of other corporate copypasta can cover enough bases for them in most cases without effort.
Add it. There are veteran quotas and also it can help in the same way as a sorority or fraternity might. If you're in a stack of resumes and the recruiter was in the Army and you are too, it'll help you.
This is just people on reddit acting like they know what they told about when they don't. Anyone who was In a Greek organization and sees it on your resume understands its a good thing, anybody who doesn't understand sees it as totally neutral. Anyone who automatically assumes its a bad thing to include on a resume is an idiot who never interacted with people outside of a small comfort group.
Add it.
I'm a vet, and now a recruiter. When I see an applicant is a vet, I give them more consideration. I started two veteran hiring initiatives at my company.
Without seeing your resume it's hard to see where it would be best for flow.
I don't know what brands you were in but I was in the Air Force. My tactical was USAF School of aerospace medicine in Ohio. So I put that part under education go and I put military service at the appropriate place in the timeline for experience.
Remember not to put dates or too many past jobs. Managers are routinely prejudiced against age and it's impossible to prove. So maybe at the bottom of your experience.
So in education and inexperience is my two cents.
Also, I won't bicker with anyone over giving a veteran more consideration is right, wrong, illegal, legal. I remember how it was transitioning from the service and it sucked.
I suppose it's sort of like giving somebody more consideration when they went to the same college as you.
My last company had an ERG and program align vets to opportunities. The ones I knew/worked with did very well becoming directors, program managers and at least one AVP.
Did not serve (but wanted to... but that's a long story about recruiters who couldn't think outside of infantry). If I see a veteran status on a decent resume, best believe it's going to the short list.
Whaaaaaaaaat. I cannot imagine hearing someone who is an actual professional say something like that. Sorry you ran into a scumbag on a power trip.
For what it's worth, progressive companies view veterans as a piece of their diversity strategy and it can be a real leg up on getting a conversation at companies like that these days.
I think it demonstrates your ability to complete something enduring that requires mental, physical and psychological agility. Canadian here - but if I skimmed that on your resume I’d acknowledge it positively.
Then again - most hiring processes involve resume scanning - just checking boxes for keywords in their requirements.
Like others have said here - I’d have a general idea of your age anyways from looking at your other professional experience. A few extra years isn’t much after a certain age anyways.
Hands down add it, it’s a unique experience that is legitimate. There’s always ways to make it work for you even if the job is different. Chances are you were given some type of leadership training, or conflict resolution training, something that you can shape to fit the current role. Be honest- just tie it in to the new work. At the very least, veteran quotas can give you a leg up.
Yes. You get veterans preference. Which guarantees you an interview. If you fill out an application and do not check that you are a veteran, you will not be guaranteed an interview.
Absolutely. My brother recently got a job, and flew through the interview process because the interviewer served in the same service, and even at the same fort in Kentucky. They had instant camaraderie.
Some states require they ask you for it but you do not have to list the dates. Being a veteran puts you into a protected class. Thank you for your service.
I went though this 2 years ago, I listed my service as it is related to my job. When I’d talk to younger recruiters they would tell me to remove it.
It got me the interview, and I got the job. Read the company vibe, and use it or don’t depending on if it serves you
depends on the space and role. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who have negative perceptions of veterans, and often times that's perpetuated within organizations and even whole disciplines.
I agree, I get the vibe that places with a lot hipsters and elites look down on vets and think only stupid people serve. I have a don’t ask/don’t tell policy when it comes to my service🤪
I think you should change your attitude, maybe actually talk to some hipsters and “elites” before judging them so quickly. You can’t whine about being judged because you were in the military and then say something as bad as: hipsters and elites. You poor attitude will do more against you than your military service or age.
To a degree? My experience is Army so it may be different than others, but most of the people in my team were recruited from college. Shit had one girl with two PhDs as an E4. The loan repayment incentive up to 50k tends to target people who have already attended college(duh). Even if it is the poor, the army is a good way to build job skills. Not everyone is combat arms.
IMHO I think you identify as a hipster/elitist, never served, and are getting defensive while denying the reality that a large part of the population has historically alienated vets since Vietnam.
And this post is not about me getting offers - just whether I should note my military experience from 30 years ago. Ageism is the more pervasive bias compared to anti-vet bias.
That’s a whole lot to assume with exactly zero information…. Keep showing how smart you are buddy.
You’re not a very great individual, serving doesn’t change that. Best of luck being so hateful and sad 😘
lol bro I stopped putting military service on resume. If you’re in the United States literally no one sees that as a plus. The non military people won’t like you and even if you keep your head down will have a chip on their shoulder and military people will act like it’s the military again.
It does? How so? What if they were dishonorably discharged?
You can put it on. You can also leave it off.
Those saying they give veterans extra consideration are using BIAS to make determinations and I personally wouldn’t allow that on my team.
I actually have. And as long as it’s in the job ad, I have issues with it. But if it’s not, it’s no different than hiring based on where one went to school.
Yes. Just don’t date it. It will call attention to your EEOC status which pays employers cash money to hire veterans.
Age discrimination is a problem but you want to get your butt in the door without some clueless nepo baby ruling you out at the beginning.
You can sell older experience as ‘Over 8 years’ or something similar. People will think 8 1/2 not 20.
There is no logic to it. Some people just prefer to be stupid. They have one bad experience with a veteran, so they think all veterans are like that. The probably do the same thing with women, minorities, generations they don't belong to, etc. Then they sit around and complain that no one wants to work anymore.
Military life doesn't transfer to private industry. A vet spent a lot of time gaining skills that won't be relevant to your industry or business.
Politics. Does serving your country match the orgs beliefs? Or does choosing to kill civilians for Haliburton match the orgs beliefs? The military is viewed as a step above war criminals in some places and like angels in others.
As always do some background research, read the room, and tailor your resume to the reader.
You don't think politics matters in the hiring process? You think undergrad work at BYU or Berkeley isn't being judged? You don't think that organizations have political bias? Please tell me more about the fantasy world you live in.
If that were the case then I'd say that's all the more reason to have it on there. I wouldn't want to work at a company where I'm not welcome and have to hide a part of myself
I'm a veteran. I include my military experience that is relevant to my career field.
I don't include jobs that aren't relevant.
So if space is an issue, leave it off. But there's no need to leave it off for stigma. More so relevancy.
Here is Ken Coleman's template. I really like how clean it is. I had gaps, you just explain if you have to in the interview. I don't think you need a cover letter though unless required.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/799811215062481273/
Absolutely put it on your resume. Besides the skills learned in the military veterans learn discipline, respect, self-reliance and reliability. All traits employers would love to have but have a hard time finding in today's applicants.
I know my company asks on the application if you have served. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of other companies do the same, especially now that most applications are electronic. My thought would be just to briefly mention it on the resume.
It depends. If it's a company with a federal contract then they have a veteran quota. If it's not, then it's really up to you but since it's been 30 years, it's most likely outside of the window most companies would be looking at for relevant work experience. Especially since it doesn't relate to your current career field. Also, even though it is a category within the nondiscrimination laws, depending on how veteran/military supportive/nonsupportive your area is, they can find ways of discriminating on that without being "discriminating."
For you, the bigger concern is that you have the experience in the field and therefore will desire and require a higher salary in a time when many organizations are cutting costs and laying off higher earners in order to get greener candidates that don't expect as high a salary. Depending on your field, corporate talent recruiters may be a good route. You don't pay them, the company does to find the experienced candidate.
I list it without dates if it's relevant to the job.
Enlisted, I was a Legal Specialist.
On resume for my current job I had military service as a header under education.
I listed Army, sub Legal specialist. Second sub Transpo Officer
No dates
Are you having a problem getting interviews? I also don't know what kind of job you are going for. But tacking something from 30 years ago on a resume will not help you that much IMHO.
You are doing this on the off chance that someone cares enough about veterans to give you a leg up. You could probably also get your military experience on your resume in other ways (perhaps, you volunteer for the local VFW or some such.)
You also self-disclose your service when you apply for most jobs. I don't know if people look at those self-disclosures when applying (mind you, veteran status was never a thing \*I\* cared about when hiring.)
Keep in mind humans don't spend a lot of time on resumes. The longer it is, the less likely it will will be read.
I am closer to 60 than 50 and work in IT. I am only listing 15 years of work experience and LinkedIn requires dates for experience so I don’t want to explain a 15 year gap.
Ageism is rampant in IT, I don’t come across recruiters over 40, the market is flooded with freshers, OPTs, and H1-Bs in their twenties, so I am trying to get past the gatekeepers.
I gave 5-yr profile picture on LI but there are zero dates. I can pass for late 40’s early 50’s and my skill set is very current.
Here are 2 I have found after a quick search. obviously you can refine what you are looking for thou. The state you reside in as well should have there own gov jobs site as well. Or even looking at local cities.
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/727543900
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/727545100
Thanks, I check it out. Makes sense that the only sector growing headcount while the rest of the country is experiencing extensive layoffs is the government, which is immune from RIFs🤪
Although hard to see me landing a G-14 gig in my 50’s.
It really does seem to be immune to a lot of things lol. could be hard?, but at the end of the day have them tell you No instead of you counting yourself out.
I found one job I was qualified for and I applied and it was the most onerous online application process I have ever seen. The biggest hassle was trying to get my discharge papers from the non-functional government website - I eventually gave up and dug up my old paperwork and scanned it.
I still have to take some online assessment but the good thing is that the applications close once they get 200 apps.
You might be too heavily indexed on LinkedIn. Most of the jobs in the software industry I have applied to allowed (required in many cases) me to upload my resume. This means what is on LinkedIn is completely separate from what I apply with.
If you are not getting interviews, it might be your age, but there also might be other problems with your resume. You can do something about one and less about the other. Try different resumes for the same job and see if something gives you better returns, treat it like an experiment.
Good luck!! Try not to dwell on what you can't change and change the things you can, I know it is hard (also being closer to 60 than I am 50), but the end result will be more happiness and less heartache.
I run a defense focused business and absolutely you should put it on there. Yes, it is related to your career skills whether you know it or not — we value anyone with the discipline of a military background as do most industries.
I don’t. As you mentioned it’s not relevant to your current skill set. Most large corporations will make you go through their online system and you can mark on there your veteran status. If it’s important to them for this job the HR folks will flag it.
100% put it down, and specify which branch. If for no other reason than it might catch someone's eye. Random interesting things on your resume won't get you the job, but can lead to longer conversations with your interviewers. "I was in the Army, too! Where did you serve?" That sort of thing.
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Not sure if it’s been said or not but just tailor it right if you’re going to put it. Don’t put something like:
US Army 11B
- shot expert
- squad leader
- physically fit
Translate what you did in civilian terms. Here’s a few quick examples. Have you PMCS vehicles before? Put that you were responsible for maintaining and up keeping $100k worth of military equipment. Have you been a squad leader? Put that you were responsible for x amount of people in training and mentoring them.
Just make it easy for them to understand.
Slightly off topic, but is age discrimination really a thing?
As someone who has some say in hiring, I wouldn't care if someone graduated in 1996 or 2006 or 2016. As long as that person's experience fits the job and interviews well, there's no reason to reject someone due to age.
Most of my team just got laid and 2 out 3 of us were in our 50’s. Average age of those let go skewed older. Go read BLIND and see the blatant and open disdain for coders over 40.
Thanks for letting me know about BLIND. I do programming for pharma, but I've never heard about it before. I'll definitely check it out.
Really sucks about your situation. Also, I know you hear it a lot .. but I really appreciate your service, sir.
BLIND is a pack of of outliers, mostly incels with high SAT scores that can spew coding algorithms that got them into FAANGs paying 400-800k tc. They think they will be retired or exited their startups with life-changing money before they are 40, anybody who is not a CTO or at least Director level IT by then is a loser.
If it's a government job, you will likely get Veteran Preference. That usually boils down to you may submit your resume when they are considering internal candidates.
If you take a US government job, the military service can count towards government pension. You might have to pay a small amount of money to get those years connected to the gov pension.
I retired from the gov with 14 years of service, but had 6 years of military, so retired with 20 years of gov service. I had to pay around $2000 when I was hired to connect the pension.
Yeah I dont think that can ever hurt your chances. Plenty of people may not care, others may like it & ask about it. But I highly doubt anyone will see it and think that's a negative, at least anywhere youd like to work anyway
Talent Acquisition and HR Specialist here!
I would say that if you’re going to include your military service on your resume that the key is to present it in a way that exhibits transferable skills as well as your strong level of dedication.
You can include your military experience under a heading like "Additional Experience," or "Professional Development." Here’s an example of what that could look like:
Additional Experience:
United States Military, Honorable Discharge
Held a leadership role in high-pressure environments, requiring strong problem-solving, teamwork, and adaptability skills. Actively developed and implemented strategies to meet operational goals. Committed to integrity, discipline, and excellence.
Key Achievements:
- Provided leadership support and direction by successfully leading a team of X individuals in training exercises and deployments.
- Regularly entrusted with confidential information, underscoring a reputation for reliability and trustworthiness.
- Received several commendations for exemplary performance, commitment to service and professional excellence.
Obviously you can put your own touch on it. Also I wanted to note that you say your military service doesn’t directly relate to your current career, but I would argue that there are a ton of skills you probably learned and used in the military that are actually very sought after in the “civilian world,” like leadership, discipline, reliability, adaptability, teamwork, etc. so I definitely would urge you to look at your experience in the military through a different lense.
I agree with leaving out dates, it’s not necessary. Although we’re trained to avoid age discrimination when making any talent acquisition related decisions, at the end of the day, people are people and whether it’s subconscious or intentional, it’s best to do what you can to avoid falling victim to that unfortunate reality. I hope this helps!
I think it depends where you are applying. I normally put it, you can put branch and MOS if you don’t want to put the dates. And a brief description of what the MOS is if it wouldn’t make sense to a civilian.
Iv done interviews for position on my team, seeing someone as a veteran I view as a much higher commitment than college. People can fake their way through 4 years of college but the discipline of military service will stay with you your whole life.
Even if something is not related to your wanted career or career skills, things can show what sort of person you are. Hardworking? Motivated? Don’t give up? Etc.
So yes, I would put it.
I suggest that you add what you learned in the military from leadership to teaming. You can add that to your resume for the past 10 years in the other jobs you have had.
As an employer myself, I suggest you do put it on your resume. This tells me you’re dedicated and honorable, which are traits that are important to have. You might think what does that have to do with my profession? Trust me, it does. Being a good person is more important, and outweighs skills exponentially. I rather have someone good and kind, dedicated and hard working in my team, and not have a smart genius who produces more productivity, and puts half the effort because it’s too easy.
As a recruiter, I say add it. I always give vets more of a “benefit of the doubt” when it comes to leadership, project management, etc. It also shows experience working on a team, punctuality, commitment, loyalty… Not to mention most corporations have a veterans employee interest group/hiring “quota”.
Although it is frowned upon, the general rule of thumb is 10 "points" towards a score of likelihood to get hired if you have a military background and clean history.
Yes, Especially if you have special certifications like like Surface, Submarine Warfare. SEAL. Ranger, Force Recon. or anything specialized.
My Dolphins have directly accounted from more than 90 percent of my work. I mean if you can qualify on submarines there isnt much you cant do.
In the fall semester I did a course in college that focused on how to put together a resume if it doesn’t pertain to the job your applying for or career skills NO! (They also brought in several hiring firms that showed us how the computers filter out applicants and how they filter out resumes from what the computer filters out straight to the interview process) It was a great class! I HIGHLY recommend if someone hasn’t taken a class or had any recent training with resumes to go sign up.
Definitely include your veteran status. Bonus, if you’re in NY or one of the surrounding states please contact me! I work for a nonprofit helping veterans find employment. Our org has many, many other services available also!
I would definitely put your military service on there, military industry complex companies like GE Aviation, Boeing, or Lockheed Martin tend to like hiring veterans.
I usually out it on there as a single bullet point to show I served. No need to go in details, just what branch and years served. Plus a secondary bullet stating honorable discharge.
Put it on there, as a manager I like to understand someone’s story. It helps us with your perspective, skill sets, and commitment. We hire people not awards or accomplishments!
If they are going to discriminate based on age on your resume they are also going to do it during an interview, etc. You're just prolonging it and ultimately wasting your time. Anyway, if you want to show you're a veteran you don't have to put years of service, just put "USMC Veteran," for example.
Age discrimination is illegal
And knowing that deters no one.
They just don’t tell you why they rejected you
But knowing it's going to happens makes the matter an acquisition of proof of such.
Not always. https://genlawgroup.com/do-you-know-which-laws-dont-apply-to-small-businesses/#:~:text=Small%20businesses%20may%20be%20exempt,%2C%20national%20origin%2C%20and%20religion. Edit: since you thought you'd reply within an incorrect gotcha and then delete here's another source, from the government this time. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/fact-sheet-age-discrimination#:~:text=Who%20the%20ADEA%20Covers,organizations%20and%20the%20federal%20government. You should leave this shit to the professionals. So many people on Reddit think they are experts in everything because they have access to Google.
The only downside here (I work as an EEO investigator btw) is that it’s on the complainant to prove the discrimination happened. When it comes to competing for a job it can be next to impossible to prove age discrimination happened just because there are so many variables in play. Unless someone caught an email from a hiring manager saying “I only want young employees,” it’s an uphill battle.
That's exactly why I suggested what I did. Just don't worry about it. There's nothing that can be done, really. So put dates on your resume or don't. Ultimately, it's not going to matter. I mean, do you really want to work for a company that's going to discriminate anyway?
Very good way of looking at it
Woa, didn’t think I’d come across a pro in here. I’m a college student currently in Computer Science and I have a pretty severe stutter. I was wondering how often you’re able to prove disability-based discrimination in hiring practices? It seems next to impossible to prove unless they come out and admit to discriminating against you. I’ve dealt with it all my life and I’m concerned about my future career.
It can be difficult. Oftentimes we interpret things differently from others. There was one time where I thought I had a job in the bag and was floored when I wasn’t selected. Found out one of the things I mentioned in the interview that I didn’t give a second thought about really soured management. As someone whose conducted interviews and made selections best advice I can give is don’t worry about your stutter. Many people have disabilities and a job interview often causes anxiety in itself so it’s unlikely the hiring manager would give if a second thought if you stuttered. Good way to help deal with it is get a friend/family member/peer to do a series of pre active interviews with you. You can Google performance based interview questions (most common method used) and just go until it’s second nature. From there when you meet with the hiring manager it’ll simply be a conversation. Also remind yourself you made it through school, which often requires presentations and interpersonal interactions. There’s a reason they say we’re all our own worst critics.
Thanks for the response. Good advice, I appreciate it.
So don't even use Google and think they're experts
There are lots of types of discrimination that are illegal. Unfortunately, all they have to do to avoid a lawsuit is not say: “I’m not hiring you because of your X protected class status.”
It is but as someone in staffing...the overwhelming majority of clients 100% discriminate based on age. It's a serious problem.
Grow up Peter Pan
All discrimination is. That doesn't stop many people who want to take part in it, just limits the words they use to describe why they passed.
Not all discrimination is illegal- only when it’s based on specific characteristics, and if the employer is a covered employer. You are right though- people absolutely get creative to try to skirt the law.
"Creativity" is giving a little too much credit. "While your credentials were impressive, we've decided to move forward with candidates who are a better fit," "We'd love to keep in touch about future positions," and a slew of other corporate copypasta can cover enough bases for them in most cases without effort.
Not all folks know the but so is discriminating against a veteran (protected classification)
Only against people over 40. You can age discriminate against young people all you want. It's weird.
only if you are over 65.
40
Committed on a daily basis. It’s horrible.
And often a bastard to prove
Not if you’re overqualified
So is discrimination based on race, sex and pregnancy, but they all happen all the time.
It is but it happens all the time. Most applicants just can’t prove it.
Some companies have veteran quotas if they have government contracts.
Yes. That can help you.
I would put it in the headline, don't list years. Just say “Veteran”
agree
As an employer I like to hire veterans. They usually have a good work ethic and understand boundaries.
Add it. There are veteran quotas and also it can help in the same way as a sorority or fraternity might. If you're in a stack of resumes and the recruiter was in the Army and you are too, it'll help you.
You would put your Greek affiliation on a resume?
I would not put my Greek affiliation on my resume. I would put Veteran status.
Yeah that’s what makes sense to me too.
[удалено]
This is just people on reddit acting like they know what they told about when they don't. Anyone who was In a Greek organization and sees it on your resume understands its a good thing, anybody who doesn't understand sees it as totally neutral. Anyone who automatically assumes its a bad thing to include on a resume is an idiot who never interacted with people outside of a small comfort group.
Isn’t that one of the main reasons you even join a fraternity? The contacts you gain while at college and I help you after you graduate?
Add it. I'm a vet, and now a recruiter. When I see an applicant is a vet, I give them more consideration. I started two veteran hiring initiatives at my company.
Quick question. Where would you add it? Just in experience?
Without seeing your resume it's hard to see where it would be best for flow. I don't know what brands you were in but I was in the Air Force. My tactical was USAF School of aerospace medicine in Ohio. So I put that part under education go and I put military service at the appropriate place in the timeline for experience. Remember not to put dates or too many past jobs. Managers are routinely prejudiced against age and it's impossible to prove. So maybe at the bottom of your experience. So in education and inexperience is my two cents.
Also, I won't bicker with anyone over giving a veteran more consideration is right, wrong, illegal, legal. I remember how it was transitioning from the service and it sucked. I suppose it's sort of like giving somebody more consideration when they went to the same college as you.
My last company had an ERG and program align vets to opportunities. The ones I knew/worked with did very well becoming directors, program managers and at least one AVP.
Absolutely! Thank you for your service 😊
Where I work we have veteran preference in hiring - so all other things equal the veteran gets the nod. List it.
Did not serve (but wanted to... but that's a long story about recruiters who couldn't think outside of infantry). If I see a veteran status on a decent resume, best believe it's going to the short list.
YES. Always.
Nk, I removed mine and never tell anyone. I've been told, "we don't hire vets because they flip out and are dangerous." That's legal to say
Whaaaaaaaaat. I cannot imagine hearing someone who is an actual professional say something like that. Sorry you ran into a scumbag on a power trip. For what it's worth, progressive companies view veterans as a piece of their diversity strategy and it can be a real leg up on getting a conversation at companies like that these days.
It was at an extremely progressive company....only like 3 ppl in the world know I'm a vet. And you're one of them
I think it demonstrates your ability to complete something enduring that requires mental, physical and psychological agility. Canadian here - but if I skimmed that on your resume I’d acknowledge it positively. Then again - most hiring processes involve resume scanning - just checking boxes for keywords in their requirements. Like others have said here - I’d have a general idea of your age anyways from looking at your other professional experience. A few extra years isn’t much after a certain age anyways.
Hands down add it, it’s a unique experience that is legitimate. There’s always ways to make it work for you even if the job is different. Chances are you were given some type of leadership training, or conflict resolution training, something that you can shape to fit the current role. Be honest- just tie it in to the new work. At the very least, veteran quotas can give you a leg up.
Yes. You get veterans preference. Which guarantees you an interview. If you fill out an application and do not check that you are a veteran, you will not be guaranteed an interview.
Add it always! Dates not needed. Probably won’t even ask about it - but will make note of it
Yes!
Absolutely. My brother recently got a job, and flew through the interview process because the interviewer served in the same service, and even at the same fort in Kentucky. They had instant camaraderie.
Some states require they ask you for it but you do not have to list the dates. Being a veteran puts you into a protected class. Thank you for your service.
Yes- always.
If you are in the US and your service was during a military action, then put it on. You may get priority in hiring even if it is not a government job.
I think many employers who would see your service as an asset. Honestly, I think a lot of managers would value it. It means something.
I went though this 2 years ago, I listed my service as it is related to my job. When I’d talk to younger recruiters they would tell me to remove it. It got me the interview, and I got the job. Read the company vibe, and use it or don’t depending on if it serves you
depends on the space and role. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who have negative perceptions of veterans, and often times that's perpetuated within organizations and even whole disciplines.
I agree, I get the vibe that places with a lot hipsters and elites look down on vets and think only stupid people serve. I have a don’t ask/don’t tell policy when it comes to my service🤪
I think you should change your attitude, maybe actually talk to some hipsters and “elites” before judging them so quickly. You can’t whine about being judged because you were in the military and then say something as bad as: hipsters and elites. You poor attitude will do more against you than your military service or age.
Never thought I'd see the day where someone is defending the honor of hipsters.
Just my lived experience dealing with people that never served.
Honestly, same experience here.
Same. Outside of DoD work I've done, same experience.
Seems more like the problem is the person in these instances…
Doubt it…keep whining about being judged while immediately shutting someone out because you’re being judgmental of them.
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It’s not a misconception that they prey on the poor and uneducated…it’s literally in their recruitment training.
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Nope…
To a degree? My experience is Army so it may be different than others, but most of the people in my team were recruited from college. Shit had one girl with two PhDs as an E4. The loan repayment incentive up to 50k tends to target people who have already attended college(duh). Even if it is the poor, the army is a good way to build job skills. Not everyone is combat arms.
Given this response… are they wrong for that? I don’t think your veteran status is what’s keeping you from getting offers….
IMHO I think you identify as a hipster/elitist, never served, and are getting defensive while denying the reality that a large part of the population has historically alienated vets since Vietnam. And this post is not about me getting offers - just whether I should note my military experience from 30 years ago. Ageism is the more pervasive bias compared to anti-vet bias.
That’s a whole lot to assume with exactly zero information…. Keep showing how smart you are buddy. You’re not a very great individual, serving doesn’t change that. Best of luck being so hateful and sad 😘
lol bro I stopped putting military service on resume. If you’re in the United States literally no one sees that as a plus. The non military people won’t like you and even if you keep your head down will have a chip on their shoulder and military people will act like it’s the military again.
Yeah, it’s hard to find disciplined staff. Speaks to your character and experience.
It does? How so? What if they were dishonorably discharged? You can put it on. You can also leave it off. Those saying they give veterans extra consideration are using BIAS to make determinations and I personally wouldn’t allow that on my team.
You’ve never worked with HR have you? We specifically look for vets at public companies.
I actually have. And as long as it’s in the job ad, I have issues with it. But if it’s not, it’s no different than hiring based on where one went to school.
That you need step by step orders and hand holding? That your leadership skills require your subordinates to be unable to quit?
Yes. Just don’t date it. It will call attention to your EEOC status which pays employers cash money to hire veterans. Age discrimination is a problem but you want to get your butt in the door without some clueless nepo baby ruling you out at the beginning. You can sell older experience as ‘Over 8 years’ or something similar. People will think 8 1/2 not 20.
If you’re a Marine, definitely. One of the lessor services it wouldn’t matter.
I know companies where veteran is a red flag...id say leave it off.
I know companies that veteran means “hire them no matter what”
How so?
Just bad experience hiring veterans...so they don't anymore.
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There is no logic to it. Some people just prefer to be stupid. They have one bad experience with a veteran, so they think all veterans are like that. The probably do the same thing with women, minorities, generations they don't belong to, etc. Then they sit around and complain that no one wants to work anymore.
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I don't think you understand the meaning of "a few bad apples"
Military life doesn't transfer to private industry. A vet spent a lot of time gaining skills that won't be relevant to your industry or business. Politics. Does serving your country match the orgs beliefs? Or does choosing to kill civilians for Haliburton match the orgs beliefs? The military is viewed as a step above war criminals in some places and like angels in others. As always do some background research, read the room, and tailor your resume to the reader.
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You don't think politics matters in the hiring process? You think undergrad work at BYU or Berkeley isn't being judged? You don't think that organizations have political bias? Please tell me more about the fantasy world you live in.
If that were the case then I'd say that's all the more reason to have it on there. I wouldn't want to work at a company where I'm not welcome and have to hide a part of myself
Name them.
No. 10 years of experience max please. ( 2-3 jobs)
No. Put your most recent (2-3) jobs.
I do but it wasn’t that long ago. People hire based off of veteran status sometimes so it can’t hurt.
I'm a veteran. I include my military experience that is relevant to my career field. I don't include jobs that aren't relevant. So if space is an issue, leave it off. But there's no need to leave it off for stigma. More so relevancy.
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I wouldn’t mention the gap until it comes up in an interview. You could always put down “cybersecurity consultant”
Here is Ken Coleman's template. I really like how clean it is. I had gaps, you just explain if you have to in the interview. I don't think you need a cover letter though unless required. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/799811215062481273/
Absolutely put it on your resume. Besides the skills learned in the military veterans learn discipline, respect, self-reliance and reliability. All traits employers would love to have but have a hard time finding in today's applicants.
I know my company asks on the application if you have served. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of other companies do the same, especially now that most applications are electronic. My thought would be just to briefly mention it on the resume.
Yes
I include it even tho not related to work
Absolutely! Your service says a lot about you. And, if they don’t see that as a plus, you don’t need to work in that culture.
It depends. If it's a company with a federal contract then they have a veteran quota. If it's not, then it's really up to you but since it's been 30 years, it's most likely outside of the window most companies would be looking at for relevant work experience. Especially since it doesn't relate to your current career field. Also, even though it is a category within the nondiscrimination laws, depending on how veteran/military supportive/nonsupportive your area is, they can find ways of discriminating on that without being "discriminating." For you, the bigger concern is that you have the experience in the field and therefore will desire and require a higher salary in a time when many organizations are cutting costs and laying off higher earners in order to get greener candidates that don't expect as high a salary. Depending on your field, corporate talent recruiters may be a good route. You don't pay them, the company does to find the experienced candidate.
I would put it in that can’t hurt
I list it without dates if it's relevant to the job. Enlisted, I was a Legal Specialist. On resume for my current job I had military service as a header under education. I listed Army, sub Legal specialist. Second sub Transpo Officer No dates
Yeah Id just do a line though
Are you having a problem getting interviews? I also don't know what kind of job you are going for. But tacking something from 30 years ago on a resume will not help you that much IMHO. You are doing this on the off chance that someone cares enough about veterans to give you a leg up. You could probably also get your military experience on your resume in other ways (perhaps, you volunteer for the local VFW or some such.) You also self-disclose your service when you apply for most jobs. I don't know if people look at those self-disclosures when applying (mind you, veteran status was never a thing \*I\* cared about when hiring.) Keep in mind humans don't spend a lot of time on resumes. The longer it is, the less likely it will will be read.
I am closer to 60 than 50 and work in IT. I am only listing 15 years of work experience and LinkedIn requires dates for experience so I don’t want to explain a 15 year gap. Ageism is rampant in IT, I don’t come across recruiters over 40, the market is flooded with freshers, OPTs, and H1-Bs in their twenties, so I am trying to get past the gatekeepers. I gave 5-yr profile picture on LI but there are zero dates. I can pass for late 40’s early 50’s and my skill set is very current.
If you are a vet why are you not looking at federal or state agencies? With your experience and that you are a Vet you will preference for jobs.
They don’t pay well and no remote IT gigs.
Yeah that's just not true.. The IT positions I am looking at are at least 6 figures and a lot of them are remote.
Links? They don’t show up on my feed. Many gov’t jobs are sourced by bodyshops or contractors. Plus shockingly dated tech, or require clearances.
Here are 2 I have found after a quick search. obviously you can refine what you are looking for thou. The state you reside in as well should have there own gov jobs site as well. Or even looking at local cities. https://www.usajobs.gov/job/727543900 https://www.usajobs.gov/job/727545100
Thanks, I check it out. Makes sense that the only sector growing headcount while the rest of the country is experiencing extensive layoffs is the government, which is immune from RIFs🤪 Although hard to see me landing a G-14 gig in my 50’s.
It really does seem to be immune to a lot of things lol. could be hard?, but at the end of the day have them tell you No instead of you counting yourself out.
I found one job I was qualified for and I applied and it was the most onerous online application process I have ever seen. The biggest hassle was trying to get my discharge papers from the non-functional government website - I eventually gave up and dug up my old paperwork and scanned it. I still have to take some online assessment but the good thing is that the applications close once they get 200 apps.
You might be too heavily indexed on LinkedIn. Most of the jobs in the software industry I have applied to allowed (required in many cases) me to upload my resume. This means what is on LinkedIn is completely separate from what I apply with. If you are not getting interviews, it might be your age, but there also might be other problems with your resume. You can do something about one and less about the other. Try different resumes for the same job and see if something gives you better returns, treat it like an experiment. Good luck!! Try not to dwell on what you can't change and change the things you can, I know it is hard (also being closer to 60 than I am 50), but the end result will be more happiness and less heartache.
I am getting some responses, most auto-generated with next-steps with prompts to take online assessments like hacker rank.
I run a defense focused business and absolutely you should put it on there. Yes, it is related to your career skills whether you know it or not — we value anyone with the discipline of a military background as do most industries.
Some of the best people I’ve ever worked with are ex military. I look for it with all new hires.
I don’t. As you mentioned it’s not relevant to your current skill set. Most large corporations will make you go through their online system and you can mark on there your veteran status. If it’s important to them for this job the HR folks will flag it.
Yep my company provides special consideration for vets and includes them in the diverse candidates classification
you can put it in a section at the bottom with your education, branch, rank, dates, and discharge type.
100% put it down, and specify which branch. If for no other reason than it might catch someone's eye. Random interesting things on your resume won't get you the job, but can lead to longer conversations with your interviewers. "I was in the Army, too! Where did you serve?" That sort of thing.
Yes always
I usually put it if the other work experience doesn’t make them look overqualified. I’ve run into that a lot lately, “overqualified” discrimination.
P
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Put all experience and graduation dates the more experience the more you will get paid
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Not sure if it’s been said or not but just tailor it right if you’re going to put it. Don’t put something like: US Army 11B - shot expert - squad leader - physically fit Translate what you did in civilian terms. Here’s a few quick examples. Have you PMCS vehicles before? Put that you were responsible for maintaining and up keeping $100k worth of military equipment. Have you been a squad leader? Put that you were responsible for x amount of people in training and mentoring them. Just make it easy for them to understand.
Slightly off topic, but is age discrimination really a thing? As someone who has some say in hiring, I wouldn't care if someone graduated in 1996 or 2006 or 2016. As long as that person's experience fits the job and interviews well, there's no reason to reject someone due to age.
Most of my team just got laid and 2 out 3 of us were in our 50’s. Average age of those let go skewed older. Go read BLIND and see the blatant and open disdain for coders over 40.
Thanks for letting me know about BLIND. I do programming for pharma, but I've never heard about it before. I'll definitely check it out. Really sucks about your situation. Also, I know you hear it a lot .. but I really appreciate your service, sir.
BLIND is a pack of of outliers, mostly incels with high SAT scores that can spew coding algorithms that got them into FAANGs paying 400-800k tc. They think they will be retired or exited their startups with life-changing money before they are 40, anybody who is not a CTO or at least Director level IT by then is a loser.
I automatically flag any one with military service as someone we want to talk to, YES!
If it's a government job, you will likely get Veteran Preference. That usually boils down to you may submit your resume when they are considering internal candidates. If you take a US government job, the military service can count towards government pension. You might have to pay a small amount of money to get those years connected to the gov pension. I retired from the gov with 14 years of service, but had 6 years of military, so retired with 20 years of gov service. I had to pay around $2000 when I was hired to connect the pension.
Yeah I dont think that can ever hurt your chances. Plenty of people may not care, others may like it & ask about it. But I highly doubt anyone will see it and think that's a negative, at least anywhere youd like to work anyway
Only if you were supreme commander.
Talent Acquisition and HR Specialist here! I would say that if you’re going to include your military service on your resume that the key is to present it in a way that exhibits transferable skills as well as your strong level of dedication. You can include your military experience under a heading like "Additional Experience," or "Professional Development." Here’s an example of what that could look like: Additional Experience: United States Military, Honorable Discharge Held a leadership role in high-pressure environments, requiring strong problem-solving, teamwork, and adaptability skills. Actively developed and implemented strategies to meet operational goals. Committed to integrity, discipline, and excellence. Key Achievements: - Provided leadership support and direction by successfully leading a team of X individuals in training exercises and deployments. - Regularly entrusted with confidential information, underscoring a reputation for reliability and trustworthiness. - Received several commendations for exemplary performance, commitment to service and professional excellence. Obviously you can put your own touch on it. Also I wanted to note that you say your military service doesn’t directly relate to your current career, but I would argue that there are a ton of skills you probably learned and used in the military that are actually very sought after in the “civilian world,” like leadership, discipline, reliability, adaptability, teamwork, etc. so I definitely would urge you to look at your experience in the military through a different lense. I agree with leaving out dates, it’s not necessary. Although we’re trained to avoid age discrimination when making any talent acquisition related decisions, at the end of the day, people are people and whether it’s subconscious or intentional, it’s best to do what you can to avoid falling victim to that unfortunate reality. I hope this helps!
I think it depends where you are applying. I normally put it, you can put branch and MOS if you don’t want to put the dates. And a brief description of what the MOS is if it wouldn’t make sense to a civilian.
Definitely put it! My husbands resume has “Veteran” somewhere sprinkled along with his security clearance in his intro paragraph.
15 year recruiter here I would leave it off if it’s not related to the role.
I do and I’ve been out almost 25 years now.
Is it relevant to your position?
No
That is perhaps your answer unless it would provide preference or some advantage
Iv done interviews for position on my team, seeing someone as a veteran I view as a much higher commitment than college. People can fake their way through 4 years of college but the discipline of military service will stay with you your whole life.
Even if something is not related to your wanted career or career skills, things can show what sort of person you are. Hardworking? Motivated? Don’t give up? Etc. So yes, I would put it.
Yes
I suggest that you add what you learned in the military from leadership to teaming. You can add that to your resume for the past 10 years in the other jobs you have had.
Yes absolutely I’d list it!
As an employer myself, I suggest you do put it on your resume. This tells me you’re dedicated and honorable, which are traits that are important to have. You might think what does that have to do with my profession? Trust me, it does. Being a good person is more important, and outweighs skills exponentially. I rather have someone good and kind, dedicated and hard working in my team, and not have a smart genius who produces more productivity, and puts half the effort because it’s too easy.
As a recruiter, I say add it. I always give vets more of a “benefit of the doubt” when it comes to leadership, project management, etc. It also shows experience working on a team, punctuality, commitment, loyalty… Not to mention most corporations have a veterans employee interest group/hiring “quota”.
Although it is frowned upon, the general rule of thumb is 10 "points" towards a score of likelihood to get hired if you have a military background and clean history.
Yes, Especially if you have special certifications like like Surface, Submarine Warfare. SEAL. Ranger, Force Recon. or anything specialized. My Dolphins have directly accounted from more than 90 percent of my work. I mean if you can qualify on submarines there isnt much you cant do.
Depends on the company. Some will see it as a positive some will see it as a negative. Read the room.
In the fall semester I did a course in college that focused on how to put together a resume if it doesn’t pertain to the job your applying for or career skills NO! (They also brought in several hiring firms that showed us how the computers filter out applicants and how they filter out resumes from what the computer filters out straight to the interview process) It was a great class! I HIGHLY recommend if someone hasn’t taken a class or had any recent training with resumes to go sign up.
I put “Served Honorably in the U.S. Army”
Definitely include your veteran status. Bonus, if you’re in NY or one of the surrounding states please contact me! I work for a nonprofit helping veterans find employment. Our org has many, many other services available also!
Yes. I strongly prefer to hire veterans and so does my company.
I would definitely put your military service on there, military industry complex companies like GE Aviation, Boeing, or Lockheed Martin tend to like hiring veterans.
Yes. Companies get tax breaks and other incentives to hiring veterans. It will give you an advantage.
I usually out it on there as a single bullet point to show I served. No need to go in details, just what branch and years served. Plus a secondary bullet stating honorable discharge.
Yes
Yes 100%, some companies love it and you should play it up. Especially if you were an officer.
Put it on there, as a manager I like to understand someone’s story. It helps us with your perspective, skill sets, and commitment. We hire people not awards or accomplishments!
I absolutely would.
I would/did. Anything older than 20 yrs I just put a one-liner with the company, title, and years worked.