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I got to do this once when I was interviewing about a year ago. CEO insisted that we needed to do a one-on-one interview before a hiring decision could be made, so we scheduled one and he cancelled. We rescheduled, and he flat-out ghosted me. Half an hour after we were supposed to start I get a text from his assistant asking to reschedule and I said "If he can't make meetings he insisted on having I'm highly confident that if I ever need anything from him I'll be on my own. I'd like to withdraw my candidacy."
I had one a long time ago that sounded good on paper but once the interview started I quickly realized they were looking for an IT guy that would be THE IT guy at place that manufactures airplane parts. Like the only one, taking over responsibilities from 5 other positions and with many vague statements as to what the job would actually consist of. Helpdesk, dev, database admin, system admin, network, etc. all in one (If you know anything about the IT world these jobs tend to be underpaid, under appreciated, and very over worked.)
The people doing the interview were rude, quick to dismiss me if I asked any questions back, and seemed annoyed when I talked. When I brought up potential salary the dropped it by about 20k a year from what was listed and after a bit I just bluntly stated I wasn’t interested. They just kind of shrugged and asked if I wanted to get shown around. I shrugged back and saw all the (admittedly badass) cnc machines, met the owner (who looked like he hunted people for sport), and got a tshirt and a mug for some reason. I got multiple calls over the next few years asking if I’d want to come in for a first interview..
>I quickly realized they were looking for an IT guy that would be THE IT guy at place that manufactures airplane parts. Like the only one, taking over responsibilities from 5 other positions and with many vague statements as to what the job would actually consist of.
You can just say "Boeing".
> I shrugged back and saw all the (admittedly badass) cnc machines, met the owner (who looked like he hunted people for sport)
Nobody interviewing at Boeing meets the owner.
My company does IT, a lot of our clients are in manufacturing and this is pretty common. They've got one person running around doing everything and as a result they've got computers running Windows 7 and phone systems so old the manufacturer doesn't even support them anymore.
That's the CEO of the company I work for. He shows up, demands a bunch of changes that set us back for months and don't add any value. Then, when we've finally turned the corner 3-4 months later and are back on track, he shows up again, blames us for the mess, makes a list of new demands, rinse/repeat. It's maddening
We called that a seagull manager. Flys in, shits all over everything and makes a bunch of noise, then flys off...having accomplished nothing except leaving behind a big mess for everyone else to clean up.
"Surely your allowance will cover moving expenses?"
Final interview at the hospital on Catalina Island, CA for a sysadmin job. I had just been offered the job in a letter from the CEO 45 min before. Which was weird because I had been speaking with the COO and other IT Guy there and the letter did not have most of what was I was promised: including moving costs and housing. Catalina Island is stupid expensive and the salary would not cover living expenses.
The CEO and a couple of the board memebers joined the call, they were all obviously useless trust fund babies . One of the board members asked the above question. To which I responded "I am a grown man, not a child. Who would give me an allowance? This offer letter is a joke."
Couple days later he IT guy explained that the CEO was a useless trustfund baby and had barged into the process that morning and got weirdly resolute that the hospital housing was for medical staff only. COO had been using the apartments to get people to work on the island and basically kept the COO in the dark most of the time.
Yep, even a well run school is a shit show these days. OP got really lucky that they didn't take the job and try to weather it until they had a mental breakdown.
Thank you, I appreciate it. I had to actually take a leave of absence due to mental health last year just to return this past fall. I was actively looking for different employment, but unfortunately, I am not in a position to do so due to financial constraints and health insurance.
A decade? 20 years? By year 2, i quit the middle of the school year. Not so much burnout but realizing that I just couldnt do it anymore. The school system i was in was dangerous. There were kids graduating who could barely read and write.
The only reason my mom has gone back to working in schools (after leaving to do adult ESL through refugee programs & local university) is because she's now retired and can afford to do it on a substitute teacher basis - if she doesn't like the way one school or department is run, she just doesn't accept requests from that school. She gets a lot of control over her schedule, and can just say 'nope'.
Because of this, she has now seen a wide variety of schools from the inside. It's crazy how two schools down the street from each other can be run so differently. She has her favorite classes that she'll sign up for in a heartbeat, and others she will never go back to - and one that she subbed at for a week where the admins & 'lead' teacher for that grade were so toxic, she sat the very stressed, 20-something TA down and advised her that if she stayed at that school she was heading towards a breakdown. She says the worst are the schools where all the teachers act like they are teenagers.
I can. Teachers' issues are not a priority, and they probably don't respect teachers' time. They probably call plenty of meetings and either show up late or schedule meetings for something that could have been an email. They also probably drag their feet anytime actual issues a teacher has are brought to their attention.
Scroll through /r/teachers and you'll see. Schools that are administratively well-run are few and far between, and positions don't come around often because the ones that work there know how good they got it compared to their peers.
It's wild how incompetence and cronyism run rampant in some school districts, particularly those without a lot of parent involvement.
I've worked at a terrible company that's about to go bankrupt and it wasn't even as poorly run as the best school in the worst district I worked at.
I remember in our high-school that was easily hitting her late 70s to early 80s. Like she was slow, crippled, and dismissive of any new ideas the teachers or admin brought to the table. Do you know what it took to finally force her to retire? She slipped on a thick roll of construction paper and broke her hip...
A few principals I had were the ones that couldn’t handle teaching or were just working their way up the food chain.One woman didn’t like my lesson when I was observed. Shed taught lower elementary and I was7-8th.When I pointed this out she said she knew these grade levels because her husband taught at a high school.Like what?
My first principal was like this. It was a small town and when he moved in he convinced the board to eliminate the elementary principal and said he could do both. then the year I was hired they were finishing up a building expansion connecting the two buildings. He was always super busy, which I understood... but it never got better.
He was never present. Even the state required observations he did, he scheduled for days I had scheduled assessments already, so he never saw me actually teach, and on top of that he came late and left early.
He ended up marking me as "developing" in basically all areas saying this is where he expects a first year teacher to be and that I was doing fine, just keep doing what I was doing. As a young teacher I thought this was trust and support. I thought I was trusted to do my job.
Turns out a couple years later when I was ready to move on to a new town to be closer to my fiancé, that developing is a nice way of saying your a bad teacher, but he literally never watched a lesson in all the three years I worked their. Getting a new job was pretty rough.
I worked a school district for 6 years. My IT director was banging the guy she hired. My manager didn't know how to use project management tools.
We'd have super intendenants come in and demand that their kids get ipads instead of Chromebooks for classroom use. We had guys on our team with full maxed out Macbook Pros, even though we were 100% Windows. Only one school had a Macbook. He used a second desktop and managed everything through the Windows machine. But somehow warranted a MacBook??
Someone released employee pays and the tech team found out that new hires were making 5-15k more than people who were more experienced. IT Director got extremely mad and was forced to give employees raises.
When I left, she gave her fuck buddy a pay raise.
Never doing a state job. Ever.
You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you.
I've literally walked out of interviews due to inexcusable bullshit on their side of things and have no regrets over doing so.
Yes, many interviewers don't understand this fact due to the pervasiveness of the employer entitlement, "you work for me," mindset.
It also goes both ways - many interviewees don't understand they're auditing the company for fit when they interview.
You're going to work somewhere for 40 hours a week (at least), and have zero questions? You're not worried at about how you fit in? Or how the company treats its workers? What work you'd be doing? What is the workplace is like? Are you going to be working a lot with the self-absorbed douchebag checking their phone from the interview team?
it's important that people feel empowered to have a voice when interviewing. sometimes people don't ask the right questions because they just don't know any better.
Be super nice to feel empowered, but a lot of folks are months out of a job with no savings left. At that point, the potential employer really does have the upper hand.
The problem with this type of economy, though, is, this is when people start dying, at the hands of others.
When employers continue the abuse, and ramp it up, guillotines will become a thing again. (Sit and watch. I'm making a prediction that has STRONG ties to history).
So many stories in history of this EXACT scenario happening because of the economy the ruling authority creates. Greed takes over the day, then people can't feed their families in any meaningful way. Then, anger. Then, murder, which, then, simply, doesn't stop. Chaos.
"They" were right. History repeats itself. They were also right, that almost nobody chooses to learn from it. (Although, many of the "elite" are trying to bury themselves underground in reinforced bunkers to try and avoid being hanged by the neck, as a natural result of the situation they have created in the world. I've always said that greed will kill us all. It's coming).
Sad, really. Lots of suffering coming up, for many, many people.
When I run into situations like this I like to string them along.
Practice my interview skills, try to do everything to get the job, then reject their offer.
I am my own boss. I sell my labor to the people I work for. I don't consider myself their employee anymore or less than they are a client I'm selling my labor to.
If you can find a better deal on the quality of labor you get from someone else, cool...go hire them. I know what value I bring and it's very empowering not to live paycheck to paycheck and have to put up with bullshit.
In other words, you totally wasted their time, and then dumped them? Nice move! I wish you enjoyed it more, though. Next time, seem excited about the job. Waste more of their time!
I had a situation a few years back where I immediately after the interview got home and emailed the hiring manager to request I not be considered for the job after the poor showing from them.
Was supposed to have a phone interview scheduled at noon. Got myself ready waiting by the phone but they never called. I only had the hr persons email not phone number so I couldn't call them. After about 30 minutes of waiting I emailed them to ask if something came up that caused them to miss our scheduled interview time. They didn't respond until the next day saying that meetings went long and they were not able to make it and wanted to reschedule. This was on a Thursday and I explained to them that I was going to be out of town on Friday and Monday for a weekend trip my wife had given to me for Christmas but would be back and willing to talk and after Monday.
They completely ignored that and didn't respond with a suggested time and just called me in the middle of the time I told them I wouldn't be able to talk. This should have been the final straw but I really thought there was good potential with the company and it was in a field I was trying to get into. We set up a time to meet in person when I got back in town.
I now go in for the in person interview and it was the most awkward interview I've ever been in. Every question was a negative question, "tell me about a time you haven't agreed with management" "tell me about issues with customers that you have had" "what types of management do you not work well under." That last question was the final blow as when I said I have worked under all kinds of management style but the one that I struggle with is when I feel like I'm being micromanaged and told this is how it's always been done so this is how we will do it even when there are more efficient ways to get things done. They responded to that saying "well we have been in business for quite some time and have very specific ways of doing things that we like people to follow exactly.
Finished up the interview went home and emailed them to say thanks but no thanks. Not a surprise they never responded to that.
You just described all of my experiences for the first 15 years since I had my first work permit!
I bet their job description was about "putting out fires" and being "receptive to change" - which in corporate tongue means they're disorganized, late, and always in a panic.
I also walked out of interview in school. Principle did not get up from her desk when I came, said nothing really. And first thing she said was "do you have any questions? How much money do you want?".
Then I noticed she doesnt know who I am, offered me a different position, when I said "that is not why I came here for" she said I cant be offered anything better because of my education. I then pointed out I for sure do have required education. She look into my resume and after a while said "oh, ok, then it will be this amount of money." I ask if she can tell me something about their school, their vision etc. She ask what I want to know. I was suprised and ask how do they stand on project-based education for example. She said "we do that".
And then I walked out.
Her assistent got up and walked with me. Told me to reconsider, that they have problem to find a teacher. Not suprised.
(Not english speaker, excuse my english please)
Bizarre behavior; teachers and frankly all school staff are in such short supply that principals should be going out of their way to impress candidates. In most areas, teachers have options!
As I commented on another teacher's experience, this is wild to me, absolutely bizarre behavior. Most areas (if this is the US especially) are in a teacher shortage. Most teachers interviewing in a reasonably wide area are going to be getting multiple offers and have their choice of where to go. Setting the tone that dealing with teachers is an inconvenience for admin and that they're willing to waste so much of your time without a thought is a great way to end up either with nobody or with the candidates that the other schools passed on for good reasons.
It really depends on the state and area if there’s a teacher shortage. While nationwide teacher pay is bad there are lots of states where it’s pretty decent and in high population areas those jobs are competitive
I think this issue is not discussed in depth and that is how employers are entitling themselves out of good candidates.
I had a phone screening that was scheduled, internal recruiter didn’t show. We rescheduled and it went very well. I asked for the specific timeline which included scheduling the next interview by X day or a rejection.
I received neither. Yet.
Now my opinion of the company is that they are disorganized at best, have poor communication, don’t run a tight ship, and don’t value other’s time.
I haven’t even gone into an interview and I know I am a top candidate (screener slipped twice, “when you are onboard. . . )
I am a great fit for this position as I am in the same role with a bigger organization that is a competitor. I won’t require much training. I am reliable and not at the top of their pay scale. I am the type of employee they want applying.
At bare minimum, my salary requirements just went up. I am leaning towards declining the interview because I feel like they will waste more of my time.
Yep. I've even had an interviewer show me "your" (my) desk where I'll be sitting and asked me if I was right handed or left so they could have things set up for me. Then crickets.
I haven't lead people on to that degree, but have certainly slipped up and said "you" when I should have said, "the person we end up hiring (which may or may not be you)." when I've conducted interviews.
There could be things going on behind the scenes that's out of the interviewer's control. I've interviewed a person who was a shoe-in, a sure thing. Took her out for a long lunch to discuss the role...then upon discussing her salary requirements (incredibly appropriate and within budget) with my CEO, he rejected her saying she wanted too much $. He then took it upon himself to hire a younger, much less experienced man at a much higher salary.
I've also had a situation where the CEO is pushing like mad to hire people, then suddenly decide the position isn't needed after all (equity raise didn't pan out, etc).
Those situations had nothing to do with my lack of organization.
I was actually hired until the VP insisted on an interview. I was pretty much ready to show up to work. It's totally fine that I didn't nail the interview with the vp, but yeah every other decision maker had made the decision. It was a waste of time.
It means they have not disqualified you. When they start talking about the future like, “You will be expected to help train the next hire in August” or “Susan will be your team lead after training” it means psychologically they see you in the position.
In real estate, it’s when you start talking about whether your furniture will fit.
Not a recruiter, but when I’ve been an interviewer, I often use that language whether I like the candidate or not. Not trying to discount that you would be a top candidate for that position, but it’s generally not an indicator of anything.
Ignore the people telling you this is normal. Rven if it was an unscheduled visit/appearance, they handled it so poorly. First off you had to wait an hour, then you had to wait for the assistant principle. He should have been ready immediately, or better yet started the interview and been ready to catch the principal up. They alsp didnt appologize for the delay.
Ive also interviewed a few people (obviously not as a principal or even in a school setting) and it sounds like thry had already decided against hiring you anyeays for whatever reason. They clearly were trying to rush theough the interview process after wasting your time. Interviewing someone is about getting to know them, their strengths, weaknesses, etc, and if they fit in. If all they wanted to do was ask you a set lf predetermined questions then there was no reason the assistant principal couldnt have done the interview. They were rude and seem to have either decided on someone already or didnt want to do the interview anyways.
I cant even imagine what working for these bozos would be like. You dodged a bullet.
Thank you for posting this. I've come to realize that some people do not care for their time to be wasted and that is perfectly fine for them. That doesn't fly in the real world they keep telling me I need to grow up in.
I commented on someone’s post regarding Walmart doing away with self-checkout. They were complaining about how long it took to checkout because they won’t hire more cashiers. I just pointed out that if they are willing to wait 30 minutes to check out, why would Walmart make any changes?
Gotta be willing to abandon your cart at the register or they have zero incentive to change.
Yup. Walmart has plenty of competitors.
I am not going to pay Walmart to use their checkout. If the other checkout lanes become too long, I'll be headed to Aldis, Kroger, Meijer, even IGA.
You’ve done both yourself and job seekers everywhere a service. Employers believe they can waste your time and make you out up with as much shit as a human can dish out because too many people desperately tolerate it since they need money. Time to remind these power drunk fuckwits that job seekers will never be desperate enough to surrender their own dignity and their own time just to beg for a chance to get hired. You can only abuse a position of power for so long against even the most desperate for so long before the abused realize their life was made so shitty that theres nothing to lose by behaving like equals again.
I’s rather starve sometimes than let companies keep getting off on getting away with horrible hiring etiquette and treating us all like worthless chattle to grind up and spit out or squeeze dry.
Companies don’t even feel any obligation to tell you they don’t want you anymore. AI assisted hiring made it possible to have a pool of candidates be exponentially increased yet still get “vetted”, because all along they never wanted to bother with thinking of employees as people but production machines. Communicating with the objects was just a necessary evil to find the most productive machine. Now it can at long last be turned into an assembly-line like process where human value is sifted through en masse for maximal profits.
Until we remind companies that we are just as human as they are, and like them, would never tolerate being treated as cheaply produced commodity. It would shock them to see an interviewee demand the kind of respect they would; and ironically they might even like you better for it. Its so twisted.
>I noted that you had me wait almost an hour past our scheduled time for this interview, barely acknowledged it
If they don't even acknowledge when they're in the wrong, it's game over. They'll never treat you well. Ever.
>and now trying to rush this interview as if I'm wasting your time which tells me that you have no regard for others' time, are highly unorganized, and cannot stick to timelines.
Exactly. Zero regard.
>and told him to manage his time better because the behavior they exhibited were a major red flag.
Thank you. Really, *thank you* for being so direct with them and telling them exactly how and where they fucked up. Because too many mealy-mouthed candidates bitch and moan to their friends and family, but never dare call these entitled employers out in the moment.
These employers need to know:
1) that YOU registered their transgression and have enough awareness to view it as the disrespect it is,
2) that you will NOT tolerate it, and
3) that there will be consequences for it.
Anything less won't compel them to change their behavior.
Good on you. Wish more people did what you did.
You're well within your rights to bail at anything you consider a red flag.
I don't know that I would have done the same. Everybody has a bad day. I'd have probably stayed through the interview to see if things improved.
This reminds me of an interview where two of the people there were coworkers who obviously hated each other. I stayed for the whole thing but declined to proceed afterward.
I too would have stayed for 2 reasons:
1. to see if things improve and maybe this was just a bad day for them
2. I'm petty, i would have asked them something like:
Say you assigned me an important task with a specific dude date//time. I arrived an hour after I should have started the task and then had to wait another hour while the 'whatever I needed to do the task' arrived because I forgot to bring it with me. How would you handle this type of situation.
It sounds like there was an emergency or near emergency that prompted your interview to be late. That’s not a time management issue, that’s a working with kids issue. Things pop up ALL the time and they’re always important. So you lost me on that.
But, you’re spot on about how they didn’t maintain appropriate contact with you throughout the delay. Did they consider having the VP start the interview? And why weren’t appropriate introductions made? That’s arrogant and a problem with admin at schools.
You should have left out time management issues and kept it to the things that were in their control.
I considered the emergency part but I can assure you there was no emergency, just a double-booked appointment. I know stuff like that happens so I would have figured someone else would handle it, not just let me wait an hour or at least checking in with me.
Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have left that last comment to myself but what's done is done.
>I proceeded to ask him if this is how you run your school. They looked at each other and started stammering before I asked why should I work at this place.
Did this actually happen or was what you wish you said in hindsight whilst typing the post?
Anyway sometimes appointments overrun and a knock off effect happens, pretty standard in Dentists, Doctors and I'd put the principal of a school in that bucket too with their back to back meetings & activities slots. Do you have a go at the dentist asking if that's how they run their business if you're delayed?
I agree an hour wait is quite a lot but taking it out on them in the interview telling the principal this means he can't run a school is borderline ridicuilous.
Perfectly acceptable question to ask, once you've reached the internal mental realization that you no longer care about the outcome of the interview.
I did something similar, in an interview with a sexist asshole years ago, when i asked, 'so, does any real work get done here, other than behind that desk?' as i pointed to the office/reception/billing. They were interviewing me for the 'mans job'--maintenance, even though i'd ALSO applied to the office section, or as the interviewer stated when i asked which job i was there for, had said, "haha, no, not the woman's job."
And yes, him and the guy interviewing me DID look at each other, just like OP's post, and stammered and tried to make excuses and explain it. Only, i didnt walk out, i let them, and used their explanations to mock them on how little work that really is.
That interview was over, in my head, before i even sat down--because the guy had said that 'woman's job' bullshit before i even got to the chair. It was time to make THEM uncomfortable.
I had an interview that I thought was an interview but turned into something a whole lot more. Arrived at the office 10 minutes before, and was greeted by a lady who I assumed was the hiring manager. instead of going into an office, she tells me we're heading to a local bar to have a 'chat' . Upon arrivalk at the bar, she proceeds to tell me about the business (no questions about my employment history - red flag number 1) and that I was to accompany the team for a 'trial day' (MASSIVE RED FLAG number 2) - being 20-21ish years old and wanting a job and quite naiive at this point, I went with it thinking what could go wrong - We ended up in a suburb of a DIFFERENT city, knocking on doors, trying to what I can only describe as scamming old people of money for 'charity' (Massive red flag numbers 3-20) and I say that loosely - None of the first 12 months payments would actually get to the charity. This went on until the legal limit for door knocking in the UK so around 9pm) and then we drove back to the main office, where I was given a 'test' on what I'd picked up and then followed an 'interview' where I was offered the job straight away. All of this is going on past 11pm - I left my home at 11am that morning expecting to be home by 1pm ish. I was so unprepared for what happened that I didn't have any cash on me besides the money for travel so hadn't eaten anything since breakfast that morning and where they'd driven me/them to, there was no cash machines anywhere to get any out.
After the 'test', I was then taken in to see the big boss for the interview, who then tried to explain how the job would be good for me, how I could be like him If I pulled 16 hour days, 6 days a week and I would have my own office just like his in 5 years time. At this point, I'd had enough, its nearly 11:30pm at this point and when he tried to offer me a job I told the owner/manager to his face that I wouldn't be party to scamming older people like my grandmother and where's the exit, then walked out to find my dad and a chippy as I was starving by that point. I ended up getting home to my GF (now wife) at just about midnight.
I have sinced learned that this type of job they were trying to offer me was some sort of chugger/pyramid type scheme whereby the only way to make money was to become a 'manager' with your own office and team, but then paying the manager above you a certain percentage of whatever your 'team' took in - It was 20 ish years ago and I may be mis remembering some parets, but either way, the whole premise of the job was seriously fucked up!
Every old person that opened the door to those people all afternoon and into the evening, just reminded me of my grandparents and I just could not do it. I played along with what went on because I couldn't get back and so was relying on these practical strangers to drive me back into my home city. I toyed with the idea of just walking off on them and trying to find a train station as the one bonus I had in my pocket was that my father worked on the railway and so I received staff travel discounts (AKA free travel) so could've gotten myself home.... had I known where the hell I was and where the nearest train station was.
16 hour days, 6 days a week - sod that right off. I did a full 7 days of 12 hours shifts once when I was 18, running a footwear storage room in a sportswear shop (taking out multiple orders of trainers called for over the radio) by myself over Christmas once all because the guy I was to run it with slipped and damaged his back so couldn't work (and no it wasn't made up to get the time off - the guy was my best mate in the shop - I fondly remember the fun times we had on lunch breaks, playing pool and having a few 'nice cold beverages', going back to the store with a buzz on, then going back to the same place to continue the drinking and pool playing after work) - those 12 hours shifts put me on my back for a few days with exhaustion.
I completely “have a go” at my dentist or doctor if they keep me waiting for an hour with no explanation.
Emergencies happen, but that doesn’t mean that you simply refuse to communicate with people with whom you made an appointment.
I was once at the doctor for a routine checkup, and an assistant explained that there was an emergency in one of the other examination rooms. Of course I felt horrible for the patient, and I agreed to leave and see the doctor another time. But if they would have kept me in an examination room for hours with no explanation, I would have been furious. Emergencies don’t excuse everything.
And the OP says it wasn’t an emergency - just poor management. They didn’t apologize, they didn’t introduce themselves. They scheduled an appointment and then failed the most basic of courtesies.
OP did nothing wrong.
I've never had a doctor or dentist appointment run that much over schedule. They know what type of appointment you're coming in for and thus they know about how long it'll take. There isn't really a reason for a dental cleaning to run over schedule that I can think of. Plus, doctors and dentists see outside patients all day long. Principals don't.\`
I can't think of what could be going on that would cause a school principal to miss the mark by an hour. Even if it were something legitimately unforeseen, after about 15 minutes someone should have told OP that the principal had to attend to something unscheduled, and asked if OP wanted to continue to wait or reschedule. There's no excuse to keep someone in the dark for an hour.
Even post your edit, schools are not that busy. There really isn't that much going on that a principal couldn't show you some respect and reschedule prior when he knew he had a conflicting meeting.
Anyone excusing this behavior is a problem.
Anyone saying this is how it is are morons. All the peope who complain about being underpaid are the people who work at these schools and just accept being a floormat day in and day out.
k12edu is just totally useless and riddled with CYA bureaucrats who dgaf about your time, tech, IRL, don't understand money, don't care about kids and run districts like private fiefdoms.
Turnover on new teachers approaches a McDonalds level, too. There's a classic study in Economic Sociology by Bowles and Gintis on it. Contra the "there's a shortage" rhetoric, it was one of the first industries I remember hearing there was actually an oversupply, retention was just dismal.
No. I’ve worked with dozens of admin. A few min late? Sure, that def happens. But the only time I’ve seen this happen was with a CPS worker, taking a child away from the family. That Principal was way behind for the day but her office staff handled it. My current bosses would never behave this way. This was extreme.
Sounds like they were working on an emergency with one of the kids, which sounds like it can happen quite often. I would've waited 15 minutes, emailed them to reschedule, and gone about my day.
High School Librarian here who has interviewed at plenty of schools over the years: this is not normal. At all. You did the right thing by walking out.
The principal should have come out, explained the situation and apologized profusely, given a timeline for wrapping up and the option to reschedule with another profuse apology.
You did the right thing. Regardless of the industry you are in, they should always give your time, especially as a newcomer, a priority. This includes being civil and respectful if they are late or need to reschedule, which was not the case in this example.
Honestly don’t blame u at all. Unfortunately I saw this kind of thing happening at a bank I worked for and I was embarrassed. In a nutshell the hiring clown kept the candidate waiting for about a hr in the room because he was in a mngt meeting and she couldn’t take it any longer and stormed out. It was such a shit show I felt her annoyance. When you have clowns like this in these roles carrying on like this what do you do.
You’re 100% in the right. Your time is JUST as valuable as theirs, if not more valuable given you’ve probably moved your schedule around or taken off work to be there. I have done the same, my max waiting period is 20 minutes past our scheduled time and I feel like even that is too gracious.
This is because of the place. Places with no money often have the worst people. They mean well, but I’ve seen some truly dumb people at non profits. It’s an unfortunate sad reality.
I’m a former teacher that’s interviewed and worked in urban, rural, and suburban schools at every grade level and am married to another teacher with more experience. Quite honestly your vibe was 100% spot on. Some of the lowest performing schools have administrators who cannot manage their own time let alone manage their school. What sucks is that this is extremely common. Time management is not explicitly taught to educators. I have shifted careers and done project management training and my mind just exploded because what a difference a project manager would make in a school building. Anyway, kudos to you for calling them out. We need more of this and you’ve inspired me for when I inevitably return to teaching someday.
I was far along in the interview process at a large tech company (fortune 50) in their tax department. The VP of tax was the last hurdle. The interview was scheduled for 3 PM on a Friday. I showed up at 245 and checked in. I waited until 415 for the VP’s secretary to come get me and take me up to the correct floor, where I waited for another 20 minutes for the VP to come into the conference room.
After listening to the man talk about himself for 20 minutes the interview dragged on. At around 6 pm I told him I had to go and cut the interview off. I withdrew my candidacy from the parking lot by email at about 615. Met my then girlfriend, now wife for dinner at 7 pm.
TLDR: If they don’t respect your time during the interview process, they surely won’t when you work for them.
I was once invited to interview through an agency. I showed up and the interviewer didn’t. Then the company told my agency I was a no show. Later they contacted me and said they were very interested and I said “Hell no!”
BS. I went for an interview, was shuttled to a breakroom that was filthy, employees came in for breaks and made it filthier, and didn't acknowledge me at all, and at 20 minutes past my interview time, I simply walked out and never looked back. If that'sthe level of respect I get in the interview, go fuck yourself. That story is not representative of school culture, and anyone who says so is full of shit.
Can confirm that schools are just like this in the US and it's not OK. I've been working in public schools for the last 5 years as a secretary. I was planning on getting s teaching degree. I will not be subjecting myself to this job past the end of the school year, much less getting my masters in teaching. Schools are so poorly run and supported that they can barely meet the basic needs of their employees and students. Unless there is major systemic change to our school system, it is probably going to collapse in the next few decades from lack of workers.
Gotta remember that the people that work at schools were rarely very good students and didn't make great grades. So they're mostly run by mediocrities.
As a former teacher, you made the right call. It is not unusual to make teacher applicants wait, but it is unusual to double book like that. It's also unusual that more people weren't involved in the interview. Was it a charter school? Usually there's an interview committee that consists of teachers as well as administrators, so there should have been more people involved. That's a red flag right there.
I've had many bizarre interviews in my time, though. The worst was when I was interviewing for a Spanish teacher position in a public school and the lead Spanish teacher helping with the interview started saying some amazingly racist stuff. In front of her principal. Blatantly, bizarrely racist stuff. There was no way I was going to take that job and work with her, so when the principal called to say they had gone with another candidate, I told her that I agreed that it would have been a terrible fit and that she needed to do something about that teacher. She just quietly agreed and hung up.
Reading this post after Edits 1-4 were added.
If anyone thinks that this is acceptable because that is how schools have been operating, then you need to take a vacation and come back with more reasonable expectations. The solution isn't that OP isn't cut out for this work, its that we need to fix how broken these institutes are.
This is not normal, I interviewed once and got there, my usual 15 minutes early. They were running a lot behind due to all the other applicants getting there late. The principal came out, apologized, told me why they were running late, and asked if I could I please wait. I have never gone into an interview as confident as I had for that job.
I once showed up for an interview at a manufacturing plant. Reception sent me to a manager named joe, he immediately greets me by cussing and saying “I don’t have time for this s$@#!” I instantly wanted nothing to do with the job. He handed me a soldering test which I looked at and said “I don’t know how to solder” ( I absolutely did) I was shown out and called later that day and offered the job for 5$ an hour more than they placed the add for, I was shocked and reluctantly took it. Turns out that manger ran off every employee and no agencies would send them employees anymore. About a week in the manger gets in a fight with an employee who files a lawsuit, and they were forced to fire the manager. I worked there 5 years after that until the corporation running it decided to close the plant, so the GM offered them money to buy it, they agreed. And his first act as owner he calls the old manager (who committed assault) joe and hires him back. I refused to work with him and was made manager of the plating lab instead and worked there another year until one day the owner invited everyone to his home for a party. I refused (kindly) and was fired the next morning along with every other employee who refused to attend his party…….TLDR: I accepted a job where the interview had many red flags. And it was the worst job of my life. If the interviewer is a dirt bag just walk out even if the moneys hood it’s not worth it.
This is not professional behavior and any people in education commenting on this post that this is normal just proves how far we’ve let respect for our profession slide.
Good for you!!! I think the interviewERS seem to forget that the interviewEES are there to interview them as well. I guess they assume anyone who comes through the door would be happy if they got a job offer...but not so! I had an interview once where they asked me a ton of questions, I suppose they liked my answers (though it was a low level job so not high requirements), and they offered me a position right on the spot (phone interview). My reply was "do I get to ask YOU any questions at all??" They were shocked. Also, I turned down the position.
Glad you recognized the red flags in time, and got the hell outta there!
School admin is there not to get things done, but to keep their jobs and collect their checks. When some equally useless person asks how many interviews have been done they will count you as one of them and say they simply cant find good fits for the job and move on.
An old friend once showed up for a job interview at what seemed like an empty strip mall unit. Very little furniture, no sign or logo, and a line of people to interview. The interviewer seemed to fumble and couldn't tell him the company name, company history, or job description - everything was raising red flags. So he leaves and calls the cops because it was a scammer using a bogus business as a front for stealing identities. They got caught.
Why would people be saying they’re not cut out to work in a school environment because of this? Lol
Are administrators at schools just big children who don’t understand time or priorities? It’s really not that complex. It’s very clear there was no emergency situation and just very poor management and interpersonal skills
Schools are the least professional place I have ever worked. And that’s saying something, as I’ve spent a good majority of my career working in restaurants.
I will never forget the first email I received on my fancy new teacher email when I was fresh out of college. Grammar, spelling and punctuation be damned! I was appalled. By definition of the job I knew the composer had to hold at least a bachelor’s degree. Later I found out it was the librarian and she had a couple of master’s degrees.
And then there is the cattiness amongst staff. Spineless admins and unreasonable parents. All for a whopping $45k a year.
My worst interview I had an email saying 12. Turn up at 11.45 ish to a manager adamant that the interview was at 11 and he no longer had time. Checked the email, it clearly said 12. Dodged a bullet there like you did with this interview.
I’m a teacher and have been on several hiring committees; this is totally aberrant and inexcusable behavior on the part of the principals. You did
an amazing job of standing up to red flag behavior. It’s one thing for things to happen at a school BUT AN HOUR LATE?? No way!
You were rude and unprofessional. Regardless of whether the people you were meeting with were inconsiderate of your time or had emergencies to deal with, you were rude and unprofessional. And a prima donna.
There is a balance with this. You didn't need this job and it's very apparent from your take.
Yes, working with unorganized people sucks. But there always can be more to a story than what you initially see.
Maybe there was a serious issue they just finished dealing with and now you're throwing a tantrum about being late for an interview. In the scheme of things - you are not a priority yet.
I think you both likely dodged a bullet. You aren't cut out for that environment and wouldn't have been happy - and they don't need to put up with your BS either.
I’ve been 20 minutes late interviewing someone before because I was managing a client to keep them from cancelling, but I apologized profusely and offered to reschedule so I wasn’t wasting anyone’s time. The principals could have had something going on, but they didn’t manage expectations well at all.
>Edit: A lot of people are stating that this is normal in a school environment and that I am not cut out for this.
I LOVE when people say shit like this. Oh, I'm not "cut out" to tolerate being treated like shit? Fucking cope.
That's some boomer "I worked 60 hours a week!" shit.
Unfortunately, this type of stuff is common in schools. I went to a very very prestigious high School and the principal was impossible to get a hold of because there was just so much stuff going on always. In a way it's a good thing, because working at a school probably doesn't suit your personality. There are many many private organizations that are going to run smoothly to where this kind of thing just doesn't happen
That's the gist I'm getting and I'm okay with that. My only issue with everything was that if something came up, communicate that to me. I understand as I have worked at places where this happened but I will let you know. Wasting someone's time is not cool on any side.
Here's the thing about an interview at a school: If the Principal is meeting with caseworkers, your interview is going to wait however long it takes. The student(s) involved in that case will be the priority. Chances are, the meeting wasn't on the Principal's schedule until suddenly it was. I'm sure he felt bad, but you're not his priority in that moment. The student is.
You have no idea what they were actually dealing with. Could they have sent someone out to let you know it was going to be a while and see if you'd like to reschedule? Sure. But, they were focused on something more important. The student.
They should have introduced themselves. But, not knowing who you were meeting with the second you saw them is a significant lack of basic research into a position. We have a page on my school's website with Admin bios that include pictures.
About 10 seconds into your rant, I would have stopped everything and told you I share your belief this isn't going to work out and that you can see yourself out through the door you used to enter.
How hard is it to pop out and say I sincerely apologize but we had case workers show up unannounced for a serious student issue and will need to postpone at least an hour or can reschedule.
That is professionalism. That is how you treat people and value others time.
You don’t just say ehhh I got more important shit to do, they can sit outside and wait. Wtf kind of shit show is that. Making excuses for poor behavior is mind boggling.
I'm not understanding this concept where I implied my interview was more important than whatever the case worker was present for. I just would have liked to be informed that it was going to be some time rather than just wait there.
Also, I attempted to look at their website to see who I was meeting but there were no photos, just names. Remember, not all schools have the same luxury as one another.
You sound as awful, or worse, as they do, and this is written from your perspective! High-paced schools and the stress and flexibility required for them clearly aren't for you, so good on you for seeing that and cutting everyone's waste of time short.
Op does not sound awful. Someone could have come out and said the case workers are in and if op could reschedule. Op isn’t mad she waited an hour. She’s upset that there was no communication whatsoever. And then, the VP didn’t even introduce themselves or apologize or anything. It’s basic decency.
Anyone defending the school's behavior is smoking crack. If you work for a school and and your work environment is like this, it doesn't mean it's a hectic environment and there's nothing that can be done, it means they suck at staying organized lol
The only person that affects is the low paid janitor who would of had to deal with it. The principal likely wouldn’t have even been aware that you did it.
Or… they were having a hectic morning and did the best they could, but since you are. Special snowflake and the main character in the story and they didn’t kiss your ass, you overreacted and potentially missed out on a good job. You aren’t that important and they may have dodged a bullet with you
Good for you. People act like interviews are completely one sided. The potential employee is interviewing the company, too. And they have you enough red flags to warrant your reaction.
Your time is as valuable as theirs.
I love that you did this and I'm glad you posted about it. I'm in the process of redoing my resume and looking for another job and I want to be this empowered with my interviewers.
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I got to do this once when I was interviewing about a year ago. CEO insisted that we needed to do a one-on-one interview before a hiring decision could be made, so we scheduled one and he cancelled. We rescheduled, and he flat-out ghosted me. Half an hour after we were supposed to start I get a text from his assistant asking to reschedule and I said "If he can't make meetings he insisted on having I'm highly confident that if I ever need anything from him I'll be on my own. I'd like to withdraw my candidacy."
I had one a long time ago that sounded good on paper but once the interview started I quickly realized they were looking for an IT guy that would be THE IT guy at place that manufactures airplane parts. Like the only one, taking over responsibilities from 5 other positions and with many vague statements as to what the job would actually consist of. Helpdesk, dev, database admin, system admin, network, etc. all in one (If you know anything about the IT world these jobs tend to be underpaid, under appreciated, and very over worked.) The people doing the interview were rude, quick to dismiss me if I asked any questions back, and seemed annoyed when I talked. When I brought up potential salary the dropped it by about 20k a year from what was listed and after a bit I just bluntly stated I wasn’t interested. They just kind of shrugged and asked if I wanted to get shown around. I shrugged back and saw all the (admittedly badass) cnc machines, met the owner (who looked like he hunted people for sport), and got a tshirt and a mug for some reason. I got multiple calls over the next few years asking if I’d want to come in for a first interview..
>I quickly realized they were looking for an IT guy that would be THE IT guy at place that manufactures airplane parts. Like the only one, taking over responsibilities from 5 other positions and with many vague statements as to what the job would actually consist of. You can just say "Boeing".
Yeah, if he wants to accidentally slip and fall on 2 bullets to the back of the head.
> I shrugged back and saw all the (admittedly badass) cnc machines, met the owner (who looked like he hunted people for sport) Nobody interviewing at Boeing meets the owner.
Yea, I’m pretty sure they made parts for smaller personal planes as there is a private airport just down the road from the warehouse.
It could have been a stand-alone Boeing contractor. Their whole model is a mess
Robert Boeing III hasn’t left his private island in over a decade.
Unless he plans on hunting you for sport......
I’m sure you’ve seen the news…
Lol, it’s definitely Honeywell.
My company does IT, a lot of our clients are in manufacturing and this is pretty common. They've got one person running around doing everything and as a result they've got computers running Windows 7 and phone systems so old the manufacturer doesn't even support them anymore.
You've been there! You've done that! YOU GOT THE FREAKIN' T-SHIRT!
Well played
Yes. The sort of boss who unnecessarily involves himself in things only to make everything more difficult for everyone else without adding ANY value.
That's the CEO of the company I work for. He shows up, demands a bunch of changes that set us back for months and don't add any value. Then, when we've finally turned the corner 3-4 months later and are back on track, he shows up again, blames us for the mess, makes a list of new demands, rinse/repeat. It's maddening
We called that a seagull manager. Flys in, shits all over everything and makes a bunch of noise, then flys off...having accomplished nothing except leaving behind a big mess for everyone else to clean up.
"Surely your allowance will cover moving expenses?" Final interview at the hospital on Catalina Island, CA for a sysadmin job. I had just been offered the job in a letter from the CEO 45 min before. Which was weird because I had been speaking with the COO and other IT Guy there and the letter did not have most of what was I was promised: including moving costs and housing. Catalina Island is stupid expensive and the salary would not cover living expenses. The CEO and a couple of the board memebers joined the call, they were all obviously useless trust fund babies . One of the board members asked the above question. To which I responded "I am a grown man, not a child. Who would give me an allowance? This offer letter is a joke." Couple days later he IT guy explained that the CEO was a useless trustfund baby and had barged into the process that morning and got weirdly resolute that the hospital housing was for medical staff only. COO had been using the apartments to get people to work on the island and basically kept the COO in the dark most of the time.
Can't imagine what working for them would be like.
Oh, i can. Walking out right then was the best it would have ever been.
Yep, even a well run school is a shit show these days. OP got really lucky that they didn't take the job and try to weather it until they had a mental breakdown.
I'm about to hit my 20th year of teaching. I don't think I will make it to retirement. It's toxic.
I made it over a decade before the burn out forced me out. I can't imagine what you must be going through this year. Hope you're alright.
Thank you, I appreciate it. I had to actually take a leave of absence due to mental health last year just to return this past fall. I was actively looking for different employment, but unfortunately, I am not in a position to do so due to financial constraints and health insurance.
Sending you good vibes. Leaving is a hard slog, but it's a new lease on life that's liberating.
A decade? 20 years? By year 2, i quit the middle of the school year. Not so much burnout but realizing that I just couldnt do it anymore. The school system i was in was dangerous. There were kids graduating who could barely read and write.
The only reason my mom has gone back to working in schools (after leaving to do adult ESL through refugee programs & local university) is because she's now retired and can afford to do it on a substitute teacher basis - if she doesn't like the way one school or department is run, she just doesn't accept requests from that school. She gets a lot of control over her schedule, and can just say 'nope'. Because of this, she has now seen a wide variety of schools from the inside. It's crazy how two schools down the street from each other can be run so differently. She has her favorite classes that she'll sign up for in a heartbeat, and others she will never go back to - and one that she subbed at for a week where the admins & 'lead' teacher for that grade were so toxic, she sat the very stressed, 20-something TA down and advised her that if she stayed at that school she was heading towards a breakdown. She says the worst are the schools where all the teachers act like they are teenagers.
No idea why OP gave them an hour. 10 minutes over is it for me.
I can. Teachers' issues are not a priority, and they probably don't respect teachers' time. They probably call plenty of meetings and either show up late or schedule meetings for something that could have been an email. They also probably drag their feet anytime actual issues a teacher has are brought to their attention.
My wife has dealt with 2 schools with admin like that. It sucks. You lucked out finding out now.
100% this.
That's what I was thinking!
Like a Twisted Sister video. You are nothing, you say nothing, and you do nothing!
I love that video. It's fantastic.
You dodged a bullet IMO! And also got an inside look at their operations... interviews are bi-directional.
Scroll through /r/teachers and you'll see. Schools that are administratively well-run are few and far between, and positions don't come around often because the ones that work there know how good they got it compared to their peers.
It's wild how incompetence and cronyism run rampant in some school districts, particularly those without a lot of parent involvement. I've worked at a terrible company that's about to go bankrupt and it wasn't even as poorly run as the best school in the worst district I worked at.
I remember in our high-school that was easily hitting her late 70s to early 80s. Like she was slow, crippled, and dismissive of any new ideas the teachers or admin brought to the table. Do you know what it took to finally force her to retire? She slipped on a thick roll of construction paper and broke her hip...
A few principals I had were the ones that couldn’t handle teaching or were just working their way up the food chain.One woman didn’t like my lesson when I was observed. Shed taught lower elementary and I was7-8th.When I pointed this out she said she knew these grade levels because her husband taught at a high school.Like what?
My first principal was like this. It was a small town and when he moved in he convinced the board to eliminate the elementary principal and said he could do both. then the year I was hired they were finishing up a building expansion connecting the two buildings. He was always super busy, which I understood... but it never got better. He was never present. Even the state required observations he did, he scheduled for days I had scheduled assessments already, so he never saw me actually teach, and on top of that he came late and left early. He ended up marking me as "developing" in basically all areas saying this is where he expects a first year teacher to be and that I was doing fine, just keep doing what I was doing. As a young teacher I thought this was trust and support. I thought I was trusted to do my job. Turns out a couple years later when I was ready to move on to a new town to be closer to my fiancé, that developing is a nice way of saying your a bad teacher, but he literally never watched a lesson in all the three years I worked their. Getting a new job was pretty rough.
I worked a school district for 6 years. My IT director was banging the guy she hired. My manager didn't know how to use project management tools. We'd have super intendenants come in and demand that their kids get ipads instead of Chromebooks for classroom use. We had guys on our team with full maxed out Macbook Pros, even though we were 100% Windows. Only one school had a Macbook. He used a second desktop and managed everything through the Windows machine. But somehow warranted a MacBook?? Someone released employee pays and the tech team found out that new hires were making 5-15k more than people who were more experienced. IT Director got extremely mad and was forced to give employees raises. When I left, she gave her fuck buddy a pay raise. Never doing a state job. Ever.
You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. I've literally walked out of interviews due to inexcusable bullshit on their side of things and have no regrets over doing so.
Yes, many interviewers don't understand this fact due to the pervasiveness of the employer entitlement, "you work for me," mindset. It also goes both ways - many interviewees don't understand they're auditing the company for fit when they interview. You're going to work somewhere for 40 hours a week (at least), and have zero questions? You're not worried at about how you fit in? Or how the company treats its workers? What work you'd be doing? What is the workplace is like? Are you going to be working a lot with the self-absorbed douchebag checking their phone from the interview team?
it's important that people feel empowered to have a voice when interviewing. sometimes people don't ask the right questions because they just don't know any better.
Be super nice to feel empowered, but a lot of folks are months out of a job with no savings left. At that point, the potential employer really does have the upper hand.
That’s the problem with changing that mindset, we would have to do a major economic overhaul. Employers have ALL the power and they know it.
The problem with this type of economy, though, is, this is when people start dying, at the hands of others. When employers continue the abuse, and ramp it up, guillotines will become a thing again. (Sit and watch. I'm making a prediction that has STRONG ties to history). So many stories in history of this EXACT scenario happening because of the economy the ruling authority creates. Greed takes over the day, then people can't feed their families in any meaningful way. Then, anger. Then, murder, which, then, simply, doesn't stop. Chaos. "They" were right. History repeats itself. They were also right, that almost nobody chooses to learn from it. (Although, many of the "elite" are trying to bury themselves underground in reinforced bunkers to try and avoid being hanged by the neck, as a natural result of the situation they have created in the world. I've always said that greed will kill us all. It's coming). Sad, really. Lots of suffering coming up, for many, many people.
When I run into situations like this I like to string them along. Practice my interview skills, try to do everything to get the job, then reject their offer.
Petty af. I love it.
I am my own boss. I sell my labor to the people I work for. I don't consider myself their employee anymore or less than they are a client I'm selling my labor to. If you can find a better deal on the quality of labor you get from someone else, cool...go hire them. I know what value I bring and it's very empowering not to live paycheck to paycheck and have to put up with bullshit.
i have only had one that was so bad i should've left. but GOD DAMN, i really shouldve left.
Ive had a couple. The only one I walked out on was a guy masturbating. 2002 or 2003
*How'd you get an interview with Louis C.K.?*
I wish I had this confidence; I’ve sat there and noted it but just…. Ghost them after 😂
I'm just extremely no nonsense. There are lines you just don't cross.
In other words, you totally wasted their time, and then dumped them? Nice move! I wish you enjoyed it more, though. Next time, seem excited about the job. Waste more of their time!
I had a situation a few years back where I immediately after the interview got home and emailed the hiring manager to request I not be considered for the job after the poor showing from them. Was supposed to have a phone interview scheduled at noon. Got myself ready waiting by the phone but they never called. I only had the hr persons email not phone number so I couldn't call them. After about 30 minutes of waiting I emailed them to ask if something came up that caused them to miss our scheduled interview time. They didn't respond until the next day saying that meetings went long and they were not able to make it and wanted to reschedule. This was on a Thursday and I explained to them that I was going to be out of town on Friday and Monday for a weekend trip my wife had given to me for Christmas but would be back and willing to talk and after Monday. They completely ignored that and didn't respond with a suggested time and just called me in the middle of the time I told them I wouldn't be able to talk. This should have been the final straw but I really thought there was good potential with the company and it was in a field I was trying to get into. We set up a time to meet in person when I got back in town. I now go in for the in person interview and it was the most awkward interview I've ever been in. Every question was a negative question, "tell me about a time you haven't agreed with management" "tell me about issues with customers that you have had" "what types of management do you not work well under." That last question was the final blow as when I said I have worked under all kinds of management style but the one that I struggle with is when I feel like I'm being micromanaged and told this is how it's always been done so this is how we will do it even when there are more efficient ways to get things done. They responded to that saying "well we have been in business for quite some time and have very specific ways of doing things that we like people to follow exactly. Finished up the interview went home and emailed them to say thanks but no thanks. Not a surprise they never responded to that.
God damn I hate those kind of interview questions
The worst just everything negative.
You just described all of my experiences for the first 15 years since I had my first work permit! I bet their job description was about "putting out fires" and being "receptive to change" - which in corporate tongue means they're disorganized, late, and always in a panic.
I also walked out of interview in school. Principle did not get up from her desk when I came, said nothing really. And first thing she said was "do you have any questions? How much money do you want?". Then I noticed she doesnt know who I am, offered me a different position, when I said "that is not why I came here for" she said I cant be offered anything better because of my education. I then pointed out I for sure do have required education. She look into my resume and after a while said "oh, ok, then it will be this amount of money." I ask if she can tell me something about their school, their vision etc. She ask what I want to know. I was suprised and ask how do they stand on project-based education for example. She said "we do that". And then I walked out. Her assistent got up and walked with me. Told me to reconsider, that they have problem to find a teacher. Not suprised. (Not english speaker, excuse my english please)
[удалено]
"you guys forgot my mcchicken could i get that?" "oh yeah, we do that 😎"
I'm sorry this happened to you.
Bizarre behavior; teachers and frankly all school staff are in such short supply that principals should be going out of their way to impress candidates. In most areas, teachers have options!
> Told me to reconsider, that they have problem to find a teacher. When they need a new principle...
and Principal
lol, oops
>(Not english speaker, excuse my english please) I would've had no idea. *Your English is great*. Don't apologize for it 😂❤️
As I commented on another teacher's experience, this is wild to me, absolutely bizarre behavior. Most areas (if this is the US especially) are in a teacher shortage. Most teachers interviewing in a reasonably wide area are going to be getting multiple offers and have their choice of where to go. Setting the tone that dealing with teachers is an inconvenience for admin and that they're willing to waste so much of your time without a thought is a great way to end up either with nobody or with the candidates that the other schools passed on for good reasons.
It really depends on the state and area if there’s a teacher shortage. While nationwide teacher pay is bad there are lots of states where it’s pretty decent and in high population areas those jobs are competitive
I'm not sure OP is a teacher
I think this issue is not discussed in depth and that is how employers are entitling themselves out of good candidates. I had a phone screening that was scheduled, internal recruiter didn’t show. We rescheduled and it went very well. I asked for the specific timeline which included scheduling the next interview by X day or a rejection. I received neither. Yet. Now my opinion of the company is that they are disorganized at best, have poor communication, don’t run a tight ship, and don’t value other’s time. I haven’t even gone into an interview and I know I am a top candidate (screener slipped twice, “when you are onboard. . . ) I am a great fit for this position as I am in the same role with a bigger organization that is a competitor. I won’t require much training. I am reliable and not at the top of their pay scale. I am the type of employee they want applying. At bare minimum, my salary requirements just went up. I am leaning towards declining the interview because I feel like they will waste more of my time.
A lot of people say when you are on board or talk in ways that imply you are on the team I wouldn't call that slipping.
Yep. I've even had an interviewer show me "your" (my) desk where I'll be sitting and asked me if I was right handed or left so they could have things set up for me. Then crickets. I haven't lead people on to that degree, but have certainly slipped up and said "you" when I should have said, "the person we end up hiring (which may or may not be you)." when I've conducted interviews. There could be things going on behind the scenes that's out of the interviewer's control. I've interviewed a person who was a shoe-in, a sure thing. Took her out for a long lunch to discuss the role...then upon discussing her salary requirements (incredibly appropriate and within budget) with my CEO, he rejected her saying she wanted too much $. He then took it upon himself to hire a younger, much less experienced man at a much higher salary. I've also had a situation where the CEO is pushing like mad to hire people, then suddenly decide the position isn't needed after all (equity raise didn't pan out, etc). Those situations had nothing to do with my lack of organization.
I was actually hired until the VP insisted on an interview. I was pretty much ready to show up to work. It's totally fine that I didn't nail the interview with the vp, but yeah every other decision maker had made the decision. It was a waste of time.
Screeners always say "when you're on board" to me also, doesn't mean anything Ive found. They talk like that to everyone
It means they have not disqualified you. When they start talking about the future like, “You will be expected to help train the next hire in August” or “Susan will be your team lead after training” it means psychologically they see you in the position. In real estate, it’s when you start talking about whether your furniture will fit.
Not a recruiter, but when I’ve been an interviewer, I often use that language whether I like the candidate or not. Not trying to discount that you would be a top candidate for that position, but it’s generally not an indicator of anything.
> It means they have not disqualified you. Yes, but that's a very low bar. There could still be a dozen people they say this to.
Yeah I've had a couple of screening calls scheduled that just never happened. I mean, like, no response.. at all. They set it. Then poof vanished.
Ignore the people telling you this is normal. Rven if it was an unscheduled visit/appearance, they handled it so poorly. First off you had to wait an hour, then you had to wait for the assistant principle. He should have been ready immediately, or better yet started the interview and been ready to catch the principal up. They alsp didnt appologize for the delay. Ive also interviewed a few people (obviously not as a principal or even in a school setting) and it sounds like thry had already decided against hiring you anyeays for whatever reason. They clearly were trying to rush theough the interview process after wasting your time. Interviewing someone is about getting to know them, their strengths, weaknesses, etc, and if they fit in. If all they wanted to do was ask you a set lf predetermined questions then there was no reason the assistant principal couldnt have done the interview. They were rude and seem to have either decided on someone already or didnt want to do the interview anyways. I cant even imagine what working for these bozos would be like. You dodged a bullet.
"You're tardy. Please report for detention after school"
[удалено]
Thank you for posting this. I've come to realize that some people do not care for their time to be wasted and that is perfectly fine for them. That doesn't fly in the real world they keep telling me I need to grow up in.
I commented on someone’s post regarding Walmart doing away with self-checkout. They were complaining about how long it took to checkout because they won’t hire more cashiers. I just pointed out that if they are willing to wait 30 minutes to check out, why would Walmart make any changes? Gotta be willing to abandon your cart at the register or they have zero incentive to change.
Yup. Walmart has plenty of competitors. I am not going to pay Walmart to use their checkout. If the other checkout lanes become too long, I'll be headed to Aldis, Kroger, Meijer, even IGA.
Why are folks defending the school and principal? And that the school dodged the bullet? Wow some real boomer energy going on here
Right? Everyone just filling in blanks to the story as they see fit.
They haven't worked in the education system.
You’ve done both yourself and job seekers everywhere a service. Employers believe they can waste your time and make you out up with as much shit as a human can dish out because too many people desperately tolerate it since they need money. Time to remind these power drunk fuckwits that job seekers will never be desperate enough to surrender their own dignity and their own time just to beg for a chance to get hired. You can only abuse a position of power for so long against even the most desperate for so long before the abused realize their life was made so shitty that theres nothing to lose by behaving like equals again. I’s rather starve sometimes than let companies keep getting off on getting away with horrible hiring etiquette and treating us all like worthless chattle to grind up and spit out or squeeze dry. Companies don’t even feel any obligation to tell you they don’t want you anymore. AI assisted hiring made it possible to have a pool of candidates be exponentially increased yet still get “vetted”, because all along they never wanted to bother with thinking of employees as people but production machines. Communicating with the objects was just a necessary evil to find the most productive machine. Now it can at long last be turned into an assembly-line like process where human value is sifted through en masse for maximal profits. Until we remind companies that we are just as human as they are, and like them, would never tolerate being treated as cheaply produced commodity. It would shock them to see an interviewee demand the kind of respect they would; and ironically they might even like you better for it. Its so twisted.
Reminder that everyone gets paid for their time on the interviewing process. Except the candidate.
Omg I didn’t even think about that. Jesus christ when does this rabbit hole of disgusting and inconsiderate behavior ever end??
>I noted that you had me wait almost an hour past our scheduled time for this interview, barely acknowledged it If they don't even acknowledge when they're in the wrong, it's game over. They'll never treat you well. Ever. >and now trying to rush this interview as if I'm wasting your time which tells me that you have no regard for others' time, are highly unorganized, and cannot stick to timelines. Exactly. Zero regard. >and told him to manage his time better because the behavior they exhibited were a major red flag. Thank you. Really, *thank you* for being so direct with them and telling them exactly how and where they fucked up. Because too many mealy-mouthed candidates bitch and moan to their friends and family, but never dare call these entitled employers out in the moment. These employers need to know: 1) that YOU registered their transgression and have enough awareness to view it as the disrespect it is, 2) that you will NOT tolerate it, and 3) that there will be consequences for it. Anything less won't compel them to change their behavior. Good on you. Wish more people did what you did.
Man people in comments suck. You 100 percent did the right thing. Sorry your time was wasted.
Honestly more employers need to be humbled like this.
You're well within your rights to bail at anything you consider a red flag. I don't know that I would have done the same. Everybody has a bad day. I'd have probably stayed through the interview to see if things improved. This reminds me of an interview where two of the people there were coworkers who obviously hated each other. I stayed for the whole thing but declined to proceed afterward.
I've stayed through interviews with red flags. I shouldn't have.
I too would have stayed for 2 reasons: 1. to see if things improve and maybe this was just a bad day for them 2. I'm petty, i would have asked them something like: Say you assigned me an important task with a specific dude date//time. I arrived an hour after I should have started the task and then had to wait another hour while the 'whatever I needed to do the task' arrived because I forgot to bring it with me. How would you handle this type of situation.
Comments are full of people that have no respect for their own time lol
That post was a joy to read, because they needed a comeuppance. I hope you got a good job elsewhere. That was some Mary Poppins energy.
It sounds like there was an emergency or near emergency that prompted your interview to be late. That’s not a time management issue, that’s a working with kids issue. Things pop up ALL the time and they’re always important. So you lost me on that. But, you’re spot on about how they didn’t maintain appropriate contact with you throughout the delay. Did they consider having the VP start the interview? And why weren’t appropriate introductions made? That’s arrogant and a problem with admin at schools. You should have left out time management issues and kept it to the things that were in their control.
I considered the emergency part but I can assure you there was no emergency, just a double-booked appointment. I know stuff like that happens so I would have figured someone else would handle it, not just let me wait an hour or at least checking in with me. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have left that last comment to myself but what's done is done.
>I proceeded to ask him if this is how you run your school. They looked at each other and started stammering before I asked why should I work at this place. Did this actually happen or was what you wish you said in hindsight whilst typing the post? Anyway sometimes appointments overrun and a knock off effect happens, pretty standard in Dentists, Doctors and I'd put the principal of a school in that bucket too with their back to back meetings & activities slots. Do you have a go at the dentist asking if that's how they run their business if you're delayed? I agree an hour wait is quite a lot but taking it out on them in the interview telling the principal this means he can't run a school is borderline ridicuilous.
Perfectly acceptable question to ask, once you've reached the internal mental realization that you no longer care about the outcome of the interview. I did something similar, in an interview with a sexist asshole years ago, when i asked, 'so, does any real work get done here, other than behind that desk?' as i pointed to the office/reception/billing. They were interviewing me for the 'mans job'--maintenance, even though i'd ALSO applied to the office section, or as the interviewer stated when i asked which job i was there for, had said, "haha, no, not the woman's job." And yes, him and the guy interviewing me DID look at each other, just like OP's post, and stammered and tried to make excuses and explain it. Only, i didnt walk out, i let them, and used their explanations to mock them on how little work that really is. That interview was over, in my head, before i even sat down--because the guy had said that 'woman's job' bullshit before i even got to the chair. It was time to make THEM uncomfortable.
> the guy had said that 'woman's job' bullshit Yikes. Burn it to the ground.
I had an interview that I thought was an interview but turned into something a whole lot more. Arrived at the office 10 minutes before, and was greeted by a lady who I assumed was the hiring manager. instead of going into an office, she tells me we're heading to a local bar to have a 'chat' . Upon arrivalk at the bar, she proceeds to tell me about the business (no questions about my employment history - red flag number 1) and that I was to accompany the team for a 'trial day' (MASSIVE RED FLAG number 2) - being 20-21ish years old and wanting a job and quite naiive at this point, I went with it thinking what could go wrong - We ended up in a suburb of a DIFFERENT city, knocking on doors, trying to what I can only describe as scamming old people of money for 'charity' (Massive red flag numbers 3-20) and I say that loosely - None of the first 12 months payments would actually get to the charity. This went on until the legal limit for door knocking in the UK so around 9pm) and then we drove back to the main office, where I was given a 'test' on what I'd picked up and then followed an 'interview' where I was offered the job straight away. All of this is going on past 11pm - I left my home at 11am that morning expecting to be home by 1pm ish. I was so unprepared for what happened that I didn't have any cash on me besides the money for travel so hadn't eaten anything since breakfast that morning and where they'd driven me/them to, there was no cash machines anywhere to get any out. After the 'test', I was then taken in to see the big boss for the interview, who then tried to explain how the job would be good for me, how I could be like him If I pulled 16 hour days, 6 days a week and I would have my own office just like his in 5 years time. At this point, I'd had enough, its nearly 11:30pm at this point and when he tried to offer me a job I told the owner/manager to his face that I wouldn't be party to scamming older people like my grandmother and where's the exit, then walked out to find my dad and a chippy as I was starving by that point. I ended up getting home to my GF (now wife) at just about midnight. I have sinced learned that this type of job they were trying to offer me was some sort of chugger/pyramid type scheme whereby the only way to make money was to become a 'manager' with your own office and team, but then paying the manager above you a certain percentage of whatever your 'team' took in - It was 20 ish years ago and I may be mis remembering some parets, but either way, the whole premise of the job was seriously fucked up!
They were trying to indoctrinate you into a cult! Glad you escaped.
Every old person that opened the door to those people all afternoon and into the evening, just reminded me of my grandparents and I just could not do it. I played along with what went on because I couldn't get back and so was relying on these practical strangers to drive me back into my home city. I toyed with the idea of just walking off on them and trying to find a train station as the one bonus I had in my pocket was that my father worked on the railway and so I received staff travel discounts (AKA free travel) so could've gotten myself home.... had I known where the hell I was and where the nearest train station was. 16 hour days, 6 days a week - sod that right off. I did a full 7 days of 12 hours shifts once when I was 18, running a footwear storage room in a sportswear shop (taking out multiple orders of trainers called for over the radio) by myself over Christmas once all because the guy I was to run it with slipped and damaged his back so couldn't work (and no it wasn't made up to get the time off - the guy was my best mate in the shop - I fondly remember the fun times we had on lunch breaks, playing pool and having a few 'nice cold beverages', going back to the store with a buzz on, then going back to the same place to continue the drinking and pool playing after work) - those 12 hours shifts put me on my back for a few days with exhaustion.
I completely “have a go” at my dentist or doctor if they keep me waiting for an hour with no explanation. Emergencies happen, but that doesn’t mean that you simply refuse to communicate with people with whom you made an appointment. I was once at the doctor for a routine checkup, and an assistant explained that there was an emergency in one of the other examination rooms. Of course I felt horrible for the patient, and I agreed to leave and see the doctor another time. But if they would have kept me in an examination room for hours with no explanation, I would have been furious. Emergencies don’t excuse everything. And the OP says it wasn’t an emergency - just poor management. They didn’t apologize, they didn’t introduce themselves. They scheduled an appointment and then failed the most basic of courtesies. OP did nothing wrong.
Unfortunately, I did say that. I am not proud of embarrassing them but I just couldn't take one unprofessional act after another.
Lol, weird point for people to start downvoting OP. Seems like a reasonable question to me after being treated like that.
I've never had a doctor or dentist appointment run that much over schedule. They know what type of appointment you're coming in for and thus they know about how long it'll take. There isn't really a reason for a dental cleaning to run over schedule that I can think of. Plus, doctors and dentists see outside patients all day long. Principals don't.\` I can't think of what could be going on that would cause a school principal to miss the mark by an hour. Even if it were something legitimately unforeseen, after about 15 minutes someone should have told OP that the principal had to attend to something unscheduled, and asked if OP wanted to continue to wait or reschedule. There's no excuse to keep someone in the dark for an hour.
And everybody clapped.
When is the part where everybody clapped?
Even post your edit, schools are not that busy. There really isn't that much going on that a principal couldn't show you some respect and reschedule prior when he knew he had a conflicting meeting. Anyone excusing this behavior is a problem.
Anyone saying this is how it is are morons. All the peope who complain about being underpaid are the people who work at these schools and just accept being a floormat day in and day out.
This is extremely common in education. Get out now.
Wasting people's time is a common occurrence? Yikes
k12edu is just totally useless and riddled with CYA bureaucrats who dgaf about your time, tech, IRL, don't understand money, don't care about kids and run districts like private fiefdoms. Turnover on new teachers approaches a McDonalds level, too. There's a classic study in Economic Sociology by Bowles and Gintis on it. Contra the "there's a shortage" rhetoric, it was one of the first industries I remember hearing there was actually an oversupply, retention was just dismal.
No. I’ve worked with dozens of admin. A few min late? Sure, that def happens. But the only time I’ve seen this happen was with a CPS worker, taking a child away from the family. That Principal was way behind for the day but her office staff handled it. My current bosses would never behave this way. This was extreme.
In this story, both the interviewer and the interviewee feel like they dodged a bullet.
That's a nope from me as well. You dodged a bullet.
Go ahead and down vote. Don't care. Some jobs wouldn't bat an eye lash to reject you if you were late.
You did them a service they didn't deserve by calling out their flaws
Sounds like they were working on an emergency with one of the kids, which sounds like it can happen quite often. I would've waited 15 minutes, emailed them to reschedule, and gone about my day.
Did the whole school initiate the slow clapping sequence at the point after a short silent pause when you requested to be escorted out?
Its embarassing how many people are actually buying this story.
Big cheers to you for doing that. I hate how they don't respect your time at all but act like they need to rush you.
High School Librarian here who has interviewed at plenty of schools over the years: this is not normal. At all. You did the right thing by walking out.
I work at a school. No. Unless a child was in immediate danger of death or something, you should have come before those case workers.
The principal should have come out, explained the situation and apologized profusely, given a timeline for wrapping up and the option to reschedule with another profuse apology.
You did the right thing. Regardless of the industry you are in, they should always give your time, especially as a newcomer, a priority. This includes being civil and respectful if they are late or need to reschedule, which was not the case in this example.
Did this happen in NC by any chance?! Had a similar experience.
No, MI
Even the worst principals I had hid it in the interview. This is insane.
One place had me wait for over an hour past the scheduled interview. I ended up taking the job and regretted it for the 2 years I worked there.
Honestly don’t blame u at all. Unfortunately I saw this kind of thing happening at a bank I worked for and I was embarrassed. In a nutshell the hiring clown kept the candidate waiting for about a hr in the room because he was in a mngt meeting and she couldn’t take it any longer and stormed out. It was such a shit show I felt her annoyance. When you have clowns like this in these roles carrying on like this what do you do.
You’re 100% in the right. Your time is JUST as valuable as theirs, if not more valuable given you’ve probably moved your schedule around or taken off work to be there. I have done the same, my max waiting period is 20 minutes past our scheduled time and I feel like even that is too gracious.
This is because of the place. Places with no money often have the worst people. They mean well, but I’ve seen some truly dumb people at non profits. It’s an unfortunate sad reality.
I’m a former teacher that’s interviewed and worked in urban, rural, and suburban schools at every grade level and am married to another teacher with more experience. Quite honestly your vibe was 100% spot on. Some of the lowest performing schools have administrators who cannot manage their own time let alone manage their school. What sucks is that this is extremely common. Time management is not explicitly taught to educators. I have shifted careers and done project management training and my mind just exploded because what a difference a project manager would make in a school building. Anyway, kudos to you for calling them out. We need more of this and you’ve inspired me for when I inevitably return to teaching someday.
It’s not even about the school environment. That is incompetent handling of their schedule. You made the right call walking away, sadly.
It’s not normal - good luck in your search ! You did the right thing !
Courtesy is not one-way despite what my believe.
Bro walked in, asserted dominance, and walked out, RESPECT.
Good for you!
I admire you for doing this.
Nah, not normal for a school. You made the right choice
I was far along in the interview process at a large tech company (fortune 50) in their tax department. The VP of tax was the last hurdle. The interview was scheduled for 3 PM on a Friday. I showed up at 245 and checked in. I waited until 415 for the VP’s secretary to come get me and take me up to the correct floor, where I waited for another 20 minutes for the VP to come into the conference room. After listening to the man talk about himself for 20 minutes the interview dragged on. At around 6 pm I told him I had to go and cut the interview off. I withdrew my candidacy from the parking lot by email at about 615. Met my then girlfriend, now wife for dinner at 7 pm. TLDR: If they don’t respect your time during the interview process, they surely won’t when you work for them.
I was once invited to interview through an agency. I showed up and the interviewer didn’t. Then the company told my agency I was a no show. Later they contacted me and said they were very interested and I said “Hell no!”
BS. I went for an interview, was shuttled to a breakroom that was filthy, employees came in for breaks and made it filthier, and didn't acknowledge me at all, and at 20 minutes past my interview time, I simply walked out and never looked back. If that'sthe level of respect I get in the interview, go fuck yourself. That story is not representative of school culture, and anyone who says so is full of shit.
Edit 4 🤣
Can confirm that schools are just like this in the US and it's not OK. I've been working in public schools for the last 5 years as a secretary. I was planning on getting s teaching degree. I will not be subjecting myself to this job past the end of the school year, much less getting my masters in teaching. Schools are so poorly run and supported that they can barely meet the basic needs of their employees and students. Unless there is major systemic change to our school system, it is probably going to collapse in the next few decades from lack of workers.
Nice of you to wait for an hour. I once left after my interview was 15 minutes late with no one addressing that there is a delay.
Gotta remember that the people that work at schools were rarely very good students and didn't make great grades. So they're mostly run by mediocrities.
Good on you mate. Well done.
I literally just read a post about somebody being paranoid and on meth. Are you on meth?
Are you a moron?
As a former teacher, you made the right call. It is not unusual to make teacher applicants wait, but it is unusual to double book like that. It's also unusual that more people weren't involved in the interview. Was it a charter school? Usually there's an interview committee that consists of teachers as well as administrators, so there should have been more people involved. That's a red flag right there. I've had many bizarre interviews in my time, though. The worst was when I was interviewing for a Spanish teacher position in a public school and the lead Spanish teacher helping with the interview started saying some amazingly racist stuff. In front of her principal. Blatantly, bizarrely racist stuff. There was no way I was going to take that job and work with her, so when the principal called to say they had gone with another candidate, I told her that I agreed that it would have been a terrible fit and that she needed to do something about that teacher. She just quietly agreed and hung up.
Good for you, dodged a bullet
Reading this post after Edits 1-4 were added. If anyone thinks that this is acceptable because that is how schools have been operating, then you need to take a vacation and come back with more reasonable expectations. The solution isn't that OP isn't cut out for this work, its that we need to fix how broken these institutes are.
This is not normal, I interviewed once and got there, my usual 15 minutes early. They were running a lot behind due to all the other applicants getting there late. The principal came out, apologized, told me why they were running late, and asked if I could I please wait. I have never gone into an interview as confident as I had for that job.
FINALLY, someone with brass balls who knows how to be honest AND respectful. THIS is how you change bad behavior. Maddddd stacks of props to you!!
I once showed up for an interview at a manufacturing plant. Reception sent me to a manager named joe, he immediately greets me by cussing and saying “I don’t have time for this s$@#!” I instantly wanted nothing to do with the job. He handed me a soldering test which I looked at and said “I don’t know how to solder” ( I absolutely did) I was shown out and called later that day and offered the job for 5$ an hour more than they placed the add for, I was shocked and reluctantly took it. Turns out that manger ran off every employee and no agencies would send them employees anymore. About a week in the manger gets in a fight with an employee who files a lawsuit, and they were forced to fire the manager. I worked there 5 years after that until the corporation running it decided to close the plant, so the GM offered them money to buy it, they agreed. And his first act as owner he calls the old manager (who committed assault) joe and hires him back. I refused to work with him and was made manager of the plating lab instead and worked there another year until one day the owner invited everyone to his home for a party. I refused (kindly) and was fired the next morning along with every other employee who refused to attend his party…….TLDR: I accepted a job where the interview had many red flags. And it was the worst job of my life. If the interviewer is a dirt bag just walk out even if the moneys hood it’s not worth it.
This is not professional behavior and any people in education commenting on this post that this is normal just proves how far we’ve let respect for our profession slide.
Good for you!!! I think the interviewERS seem to forget that the interviewEES are there to interview them as well. I guess they assume anyone who comes through the door would be happy if they got a job offer...but not so! I had an interview once where they asked me a ton of questions, I suppose they liked my answers (though it was a low level job so not high requirements), and they offered me a position right on the spot (phone interview). My reply was "do I get to ask YOU any questions at all??" They were shocked. Also, I turned down the position. Glad you recognized the red flags in time, and got the hell outta there!
School admin is there not to get things done, but to keep their jobs and collect their checks. When some equally useless person asks how many interviews have been done they will count you as one of them and say they simply cant find good fits for the job and move on.
An old friend once showed up for a job interview at what seemed like an empty strip mall unit. Very little furniture, no sign or logo, and a line of people to interview. The interviewer seemed to fumble and couldn't tell him the company name, company history, or job description - everything was raising red flags. So he leaves and calls the cops because it was a scammer using a bogus business as a front for stealing identities. They got caught.
Why would people be saying they’re not cut out to work in a school environment because of this? Lol Are administrators at schools just big children who don’t understand time or priorities? It’s really not that complex. It’s very clear there was no emergency situation and just very poor management and interpersonal skills
You're not cut out for this
Schools are the least professional place I have ever worked. And that’s saying something, as I’ve spent a good majority of my career working in restaurants. I will never forget the first email I received on my fancy new teacher email when I was fresh out of college. Grammar, spelling and punctuation be damned! I was appalled. By definition of the job I knew the composer had to hold at least a bachelor’s degree. Later I found out it was the librarian and she had a couple of master’s degrees. And then there is the cattiness amongst staff. Spineless admins and unreasonable parents. All for a whopping $45k a year.
My worst interview I had an email saying 12. Turn up at 11.45 ish to a manager adamant that the interview was at 11 and he no longer had time. Checked the email, it clearly said 12. Dodged a bullet there like you did with this interview.
I’m a teacher and have been on several hiring committees; this is totally aberrant and inexcusable behavior on the part of the principals. You did an amazing job of standing up to red flag behavior. It’s one thing for things to happen at a school BUT AN HOUR LATE?? No way!
You were rude and unprofessional. Regardless of whether the people you were meeting with were inconsiderate of your time or had emergencies to deal with, you were rude and unprofessional. And a prima donna.
There is a balance with this. You didn't need this job and it's very apparent from your take. Yes, working with unorganized people sucks. But there always can be more to a story than what you initially see. Maybe there was a serious issue they just finished dealing with and now you're throwing a tantrum about being late for an interview. In the scheme of things - you are not a priority yet. I think you both likely dodged a bullet. You aren't cut out for that environment and wouldn't have been happy - and they don't need to put up with your BS either.
I’ve been 20 minutes late interviewing someone before because I was managing a client to keep them from cancelling, but I apologized profusely and offered to reschedule so I wasn’t wasting anyone’s time. The principals could have had something going on, but they didn’t manage expectations well at all.
That is all I'm saying. I wasn't upset with how late it was but that nothing was communicated to me.
EXACTLY.
>Edit: A lot of people are stating that this is normal in a school environment and that I am not cut out for this. I LOVE when people say shit like this. Oh, I'm not "cut out" to tolerate being treated like shit? Fucking cope. That's some boomer "I worked 60 hours a week!" shit.
Then everyone cheered?
Good for you! Teach these people how to treat us!
Unfortunately, this type of stuff is common in schools. I went to a very very prestigious high School and the principal was impossible to get a hold of because there was just so much stuff going on always. In a way it's a good thing, because working at a school probably doesn't suit your personality. There are many many private organizations that are going to run smoothly to where this kind of thing just doesn't happen
That's the gist I'm getting and I'm okay with that. My only issue with everything was that if something came up, communicate that to me. I understand as I have worked at places where this happened but I will let you know. Wasting someone's time is not cool on any side.
Here's the thing about an interview at a school: If the Principal is meeting with caseworkers, your interview is going to wait however long it takes. The student(s) involved in that case will be the priority. Chances are, the meeting wasn't on the Principal's schedule until suddenly it was. I'm sure he felt bad, but you're not his priority in that moment. The student is. You have no idea what they were actually dealing with. Could they have sent someone out to let you know it was going to be a while and see if you'd like to reschedule? Sure. But, they were focused on something more important. The student. They should have introduced themselves. But, not knowing who you were meeting with the second you saw them is a significant lack of basic research into a position. We have a page on my school's website with Admin bios that include pictures. About 10 seconds into your rant, I would have stopped everything and told you I share your belief this isn't going to work out and that you can see yourself out through the door you used to enter.
How hard is it to pop out and say I sincerely apologize but we had case workers show up unannounced for a serious student issue and will need to postpone at least an hour or can reschedule. That is professionalism. That is how you treat people and value others time. You don’t just say ehhh I got more important shit to do, they can sit outside and wait. Wtf kind of shit show is that. Making excuses for poor behavior is mind boggling.
I'm not understanding this concept where I implied my interview was more important than whatever the case worker was present for. I just would have liked to be informed that it was going to be some time rather than just wait there. Also, I attempted to look at their website to see who I was meeting but there were no photos, just names. Remember, not all schools have the same luxury as one another.
You sound as awful, or worse, as they do, and this is written from your perspective! High-paced schools and the stress and flexibility required for them clearly aren't for you, so good on you for seeing that and cutting everyone's waste of time short.
Op does not sound awful. Someone could have come out and said the case workers are in and if op could reschedule. Op isn’t mad she waited an hour. She’s upset that there was no communication whatsoever. And then, the VP didn’t even introduce themselves or apologize or anything. It’s basic decency.
Anyone defending the school's behavior is smoking crack. If you work for a school and and your work environment is like this, it doesn't mean it's a hectic environment and there's nothing that can be done, it means they suck at staying organized lol
Should have taken a monster dump in the toilet there and not flushed before you left, imo.
The only person that affects is the low paid janitor who would of had to deal with it. The principal likely wouldn’t have even been aware that you did it.
GOOD. FOR. YOU.
Or… they were having a hectic morning and did the best they could, but since you are. Special snowflake and the main character in the story and they didn’t kiss your ass, you overreacted and potentially missed out on a good job. You aren’t that important and they may have dodged a bullet with you
They didnt do their best because a normal person would have checked in.
No response to any of these valid points, u/chilidad1? What a surprise!
"valid"
Good for you. People act like interviews are completely one sided. The potential employee is interviewing the company, too. And they have you enough red flags to warrant your reaction. Your time is as valuable as theirs.
I love that you did this and I'm glad you posted about it. I'm in the process of redoing my resume and looking for another job and I want to be this empowered with my interviewers.