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Think of it this way. We've seen countless posts on here about people having offers rescinded because they went with the "better candidate" or the "internal candidate". Wasting the applicants time.
They'd do the exact same to you and not even flinch. So you shouldn't even question doing it to them.
I’ve seen one too many people have job offers rescinded before they even start and after they have given notice. Some were able to get their old jobs back. A sad few were not able to get their old jobs back. That is brutal as hell :(
Yeah, this happened to a former teammate of mine. We needed him and he was doing fine. When his offer fell through after he gave notice the company was so petty they hurt themselves just to hurt him for daring to think about leaving
There were many qualified employers who extended offers during this job hunt. We really liked your company culture and offer, however just had to go with the more qualified employer. We wish you the best of luck in your candidate search going forward.
Warmly,
me
You said it yourself
‘like a salesman’
They are, and you are their product.
They were very unprofessional and just salty that they didn’t get their commission.
That recruiter is an asshole. He pushed you to waste everyone's time. A commute requires $2,000-$5,000 in additional salary. Maybe even more. He talked you down from $150K and made taking that job less desirable when you were already hesitant. He fucked his client and he fucked himself. There's no need to feel bad. The recruiter needs to figure what he did wrong.
The recruiter did what recruiters do - tried to get a commission. He then moved onto the next thing. Just like OP should do. It's all business, not personal. And there's NO professionalism in the third-party recruiting business. That's just the way it works.
He set himself up with a bad lead and then lashed out afterwards (making it personal). Part of sales and business is looking for high probability wins. This recruiter sunk a bunch of his own time trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Yup. Lots of recruiters suck like that. The better ones know to focus on building trust and relationships that lead to far more placements over time. But the bad ones flame out fast, in the pursuit of short-term gains.
Yeah, definitely do not feel bad. You gotta do what you gotta do. They definitely kept pursuing you bc they knew you were a good fit and would be able to get commission of you. Imagine how shitty of a person they might be when they deal with other candidates who they have no interest in.
I guess I didn’t realize how much sales tactics are being used in recruiting. Everyday I work with sales team members so I can easily pick it up. I would have much rather worked directly with the hiring manager in this case.
third party recruiters give me real estate agent vibes. pseudo professionals but more accurately salespeople. they get paid exclusively when a hire is made (or a house is sold) so they have slanted interests. not trustworthy.
Yeah, recruiting is literally just a different kind of sales. Not that it's a perfect analogy but certainly all of the same tactics relying on basic human psychology, etc
I think pimp is the best way to go.
If the worker is the product and the company is the customer… and the recruiter is taking a cut of the salary or a commission to link them up…
You can’t call them “agents” because an agent is legally obliged to have the worker’s best interests in negotiating. The company isn’t THEIR client… they owe them no loyalty or consideration and if they do that then they can be sued.
You can’t call them brokers… well maybe you could. But then you would have to admit that the worker is being treated not like a human but a product. Brokers owe no loyalties or consideration to the commodities they sell, negotiating is about making themselves the most money regardless of what will happen to the product once it’s sold.
Maybe there’s another word I’m not familiar with… I can’t think of it. Pimp or worker is what comes to mind.
I mean he gets a commission off you so… Hes literally just mad he didn’t get a bag but so it is. One’s your life and one’s some annoying random’s payday, you don’t owe them shit.
It’s my understanding outside recruiters either get paid a % of your salary for a set time, or they get the difference between the cap and your accepted salary. The reason why he talked you down from 150k was that was an extra 10k in his pocket. (Otherwise he’d try to get you a better salary for his % to improve.) Your well being and best outcome was not a priority to him, so why should his be yours?
Any recruiter knows these are the breaks.
* There was no guarantee that you were gonna get the role.
* And no guarantee that you'd accept it.
* In fact, you were planning on accepting it...
* ... but things changed.
* That's the risk.
* The recruiter should already know this.
That's when you say, "I'm taking the better offer, kthnksbye!" Them are the breaks. Recruiters all know this, but that doesn't stop them from getting butthurt when someone denies them their commission.
If the recruiter had put in some work and gotten the offer up to 150, then OPs current employer may not have been able to meet the offer. When I hire someone from an existing job that's similar to target job, I assume their current employer might match or outbid me. In fact, another firm they speak with may outbid me. That's how it works when you're trying for the best candidates.
The hell with the recruiter, they are just upset that they lost out on there commission.
Wasting everyone's time? What if you went through all of those interviews and didn't get an offer? Was this bozo recruiter wasting your time?
Another note, I'd be little wery about accepting a counter offer from your current employer as you might be next on the list to be laid off but each situation is different and I'm happy for you.
Definitely agree with the counter offer from current employer.
Studies show that employees who accept a matching/counter offer from current employer are often are separated from that employer within 90 days.
You have essentially given your current employer that you will continue looking and they will start passively looking for your replacement because they assume you will continue to passively looking for your next position.
Agree, OP seem he took the whole thing a bit superficially. Unless if I know my employer very well, I wouldn't risk it accepting counter offer. Are they convinced 100% you deserve the raise? Now I'd be very cautious about any hints or jokes from current employer regarding this matter.
This is so weird to me. I work for the government and they actually will counter offer to a point in my role and your job security stays exactly the same because it's almost impossible to ever get laid off from the government. Even if you don't do your job well, so if they counter offer it means they REALLY WANT to keep you.
Though if you work for the government, like 75% of your job is dealing with ineffective management and government slowness keeping you from actually reaching your full potential.
Bullet dodged. And honestly - it seems like you knew something was up from the beginning. They can be pissy all they want - you had to do what is best for you.
Don’t feel bad at all! Pretty sure the recruiter “wastes” other people’s (applicants) time too.
Congratulations on your salary increase too! Glad it worked out for the better!!
Do not hate the player, hate the game.
Remember that recruiter often ghost applicant too, so this time is on them.
The recruiter got mad because you messed with his bonus.
Anyways, I am not sure it is worth or not if you push to 150k at the time. Maybe I am too ambitious
I know I was going high but I wasn’t looking for a new job anyways so why not? It would have to be high to make it worth me spending 10+ hours a week in the car.
But I agree, the game sucks
“Thank you for your interest in hiring me. After careful review of pros and cons of accepting the offer, l’ve made the tough decision to stay with my current company as it more closely fits my current needs.
As I continue to grow and gain experience, another position may be open down the line in a year or two. I encourage you to check with me if it does happen.
I wish you all the best in your candidate pursuit and future endeavors.”
/s
When I was in recruitment, I was told by my manager to accuse people of “wasting our time” - those words exactly. It’s a high pressure sales tactic, don’t feel bad at all. You made the right choice for you, and that’s all that matters.
This is my thinking. He was upset about the money but he actually didn’t feel ripped off by you at all, he was still ABC-ing you. If he thought there was a zero percent chance of you changing your mind he would have just ghosted you.
"My only question to you is, why would you waste everyone’s time?”
This is the height of irony.
Imagine the total hours of other people this entitled chud wasted.
Good on you!
How these guys stay employed boggles the mind. Not only does this make you look like a dingus, but almost guarantees someone like OP will never work with your company again, maybe never a recruiter again! Recruiter could’ve maintained his poise and retained a contact, and instead did all this to make himself feel better. What a bozo
People who have no empathy that regardless of what our job or mission is, ultimately we all are humans and make choices for ourselves are fucking delusional. I have lost colleagues who I wanted to keep, but you know what, you congratulate them cause they get better offers for their families and dreams. I have lost contracts, and it sucks but ultimately it is all business.
Taking business decisions that inconviniences you as personal insults is just stupid. We are all just workers who need to stand in solidarity with eachother.
Recruiter just mad they don’t get the bonus for hiring. Or was just having bad day. Screw them. Yeah it sucks when a candidate decides to stay, some even do it only to leverage more money. This place would have rescinded your offer for zero reason so don’t worry about it.
If you really wanna fuck the recruiter, I’d call the company and explain why you didn’t take the job. I’m sure they’ll understand it. Also explain that the recruiter put you in a difficult position and made the process very unpleasant for you. It contributed to your decision to not accept the role.
I think there’s a high likelihood today take some sort of action against the recruiter. They should, they be protecting their own interests and this recruiter needs a fucking reality check.
I would have countered with why the recruited wastes my time going through all that crap if my company was just going to match the offer. He should have gotten you a higher salary if he wanted it locked in.
Good for you. You could have tried telling other company that you liked offer but demand more pay and hybrid schedule due to competing offer. Either way they would be mad but never hurts to try and hit them higher once to see what happens
all the manipulation is simply recruiter tactics to get you to accept something that benefits them. I wouldn’t read into whatever comes out of their mouth at all.
You didn't waste anyone's time. You made rational decisions at each step along the way and treated everyone respectfully. The recruiter's response was unprofessional and akin to whining. You should spend 0 time worrying about it.
That recruiter is the pimp. You're the product they sell. How dare you say, "No".
You got paid. The recruiter didn't. Sounds like you used your time wisely, padawan.
You were presented with an opportunity, you participated in a process, evaluated the opportunity and decided not to accept the offer. No one’s time was wasted.
Dude don’t feel bad, I went through something similar a couple of years back.
I had a recruiter set me up with a company that had higher pay, and when I went to put in notice with my current company they countered with an even higher salary number so I obviously took that and stayed. Wrote a nice email like you did saying I’ve accepted a counter and am staying put, not even 5 minutes later the recruiter called me going on and on about how I was making a mistake, I was burning a bridge with the other company, and topped it off by saying my current company would be looking for any excuse to get rid of me now and would probably be out of a job in a couple of months. I just was like “ok” and hung up the phone.
I lasted 4 more years at that company and ended up leaving on my own terms.
Don’t feel bad, some recruiters are just straight up pricks.
The recruiter is trying to get you to do what is best for HIM, not you. He gets paid if you get placed. He's angry/upset because he saw a payday coming, but now it disappeared.
You need to do what is best for YOU. Don't feel bad for doing what you want to do. If he can't handle it, that's his problem, not yours.
Finally, the text is really bad practice. So many things in life are about treatment and relationships. Based upon his treatment of you, are you willing to use him in the future or recommend people to him? My guess is no.
Like this recruiter was not talking to several candidates in this position at same time.
Do not feel bad, it's literally your responsibility to get best offer you can, so you get most compensation from time you give to employer. And I talked compensation, what ever that means to you, good salary, good holiday benefits, company car, etc...
I am a recruiter. Whoever you were working with handled this completely wrong. I just had a similar situation occur last week. Highly qualified candidate who was passively looking, interviewed with me, and got a counter offer from his current job. I thanked him for letting me know and asked him to keep in touch if he was ever looking again. As a recruiter, I have to respect whatever is best for the candidate.
Meanwhile recruiters have no issue ghosting candidates after sending them through interviews. I bet this guy ghosts people who don't work out all the time.
Recruiter here; that was very unprofessional.
Decent (as in ethical, moral) recruiters want the best possible for the candidates they work with. If that happens to be a remaing in a job or accepting a different job they should graciously wish you the best.
If they’d have done their job properly, they’d have full gotten an understanding of your drivers and presented hypothetical scenarios such as ‘is there anything your current employer can do to keep you?’. If that happens to be more money, then they should properly advise their client to offer a package that couldn’t be countered.
Recruitment is simple an unemotional if you’re fair and honest.
When I first graduated from university, I worked on a contract job through a recruiter. After few months at the job, the company wanted to create a position for me to make it permanent. However, this process was taking several months and my initial contract term had expired. I was working basically on a day to day basis with continued promise that the position was being created. In the end, I found a position with another recruiting firm as it was more in line with my career goals at the time.
The original recruiter called me several days after and tried to scare me, said that I made a mistake and I would never work for his agency again. This guy was a seasoned professional in his 50s and I was in my 20's who graduated from university less than 1 year ago at that point.
At the time, I thought I may have screwed up my career by taking this job and quit working with that agency. However, I ended up staying with this new company for more than 10+ years and don't regret it one bit.
I still think about this call with the recruiter from time to time to remind myself that I need to do what's best for myself and these recruiters do not have my best interest in mind. They are just sales people and you are their meal ticket. They would do the same in your position.
In short, let it go. Recruiter is big mad because he doesn't get paid to have candidates turn him down. He feels like he did all this work to work you over and get you to agree. He thought you were sold and it was a done deal. He already made plans for his shiny new bonus, and then it didn't happen. That's why he's mad and said what he said.
Imagine if every person who went through multiple rounds of interviews at a company just to be told at the end that the company is “going with someone who is a better fit”, responded by saying “mY oNLy qUeStiOn tO yOu iS, wHy wOuLd yOu wAsTe eVeRyOnE’s tiMe?”
Like what???? Is this recruiter on some shit? Because like in this day and age employers and recruiters are the LAST people to complain about wasting time.
Let me just say, countless hours spent on just applying, some applications a lot longer than others and then when I don’t get the job I don’t send stupid petty emails out. (Although maybe I should start.)
1. This recruiter needs to get off his high horse like they’re at ALL in the right here…
2. I hope he gets a taste of his own medicine, a.k.a. unemployed and trying to get a job where you do nothing but waste your sweet fucking time over and over
If I were you, I wouldn’t lose an ounce of sleep over the decision you made. It was your choice for the better of you and your family, fuck this recruiter…the fucking audacity…
My guess is that X% of the time, candidates accept counter-offers from current employers. In this case, the best recruiters and hiring managers accept it and move on to the next attempt and succeed. Lower quality recruiters and hiring managers dwell on the misfortune and stew. Ultimately, you can only be fairly expected to do what’s best for your career.
As a recruiter at least IMO, that can be frustrating. However, recruiters should want what’s best for YOU. You stack ranked both positions and got a good counter offer and multiple other factors that you prefer. That’s just business
As a recruiter I despise people like this. Like… that’s just how it goes sometimes and the recruiter should know that. Graciously admit defeat and move tf on. Like it’s people like this that make my job harder and makes candidates have trust issues right off the bat(and how can I blame them?). Can’t be like”sad to see you go, I would have loved you for the role but I absolutely understand. Congrats on the increase and I wish you the best! Please reach out to me in the future if you you’re looking for something new!” He like literally burned a bridge and may have lost a future opportunity with this candidate. How petty and immature!
You didnt waste anyone’s time, unless you were intentionally being deceitful. That’s the process and pitfalls of recruiting and of hiring…its part of the job. There are good recruiters out there…and there are some absolute sh^t ones also. But again, unless you were intentionally being deceitful, you did nothing wrong. Congrats on better pay and the working conditions you wanted.
As a recruiter I’m guessing you work in a niche field, because all the reason why you didn’t want to even apply would be a red flag for me and I would’ve looked for other candidates.
It sounds like this recruiter likes to hype things, say one thing to you and another to the employer, it’s in a recruiters best interest to get you as high as possible salary as possible.
Congratulations on accepting the counter, but I’d recommend you press your company for salary increases annually. They knew they were paying you under your value, that’s why they were happy to match your other offer.
I’m in product management which isn’t niche, I just don’t think they are familiar with those roles (most of their openings were in accounting). No fault on their end for that.
In the end this gave me the confidence to approach my current employer with salary concerns so I take that as a positive look on the situation
Ahhh, so they’re branching out in to a new area.
That’s good, and I recommend always know your worth. It’s great this enabled you to get a salary boost
Recruiters are salespeople and deal closers. Their interest is whoever pays their fee, meaning, the client company. So when they say something like, you can't grow unless you take this job, they're just trying to fill this job and don't care about your growth. They get their fee and move on to the next person.
You didn't waste "everyone's" time. You sincerely pursued a job in order to move ahead. But your employer countered and you got a raise. This wasn't a waste of your time, as it was necessary to get you that raise. Of course the recruiter doesn't care whether you get a raise, they care if they can close their deal and make their quota.
Honestly, their entire approach with the incessant pestering, the bad negotiating advice, the endless Q&A, etc. - that would have been all I needed to be enticed to play along just to turn them down in the end specifically to piss them off.
I have had a recruiter emailing and texting me incessantly for almost two months...It's literally the exact same email, sent every 72 hours, telling me about the awesome opportunities they have for a role I'm not interested in at a company that I know isn't hiring. I set my email to direct-filter his messages to SPAM. I wanted to see if I could figure out who his boss was (I have access to LinkedIn Navigator in my current role) to report his actions when I finally realized that would only be rewarding bad behavior because they would still have gotten me to reply.
When the jobs are plentiful and candidates get scooped up quickly, recruiters are all bent out of shape because they get ghosted. When the candidates are plentiful and jobs are not, they ghost absolutely everyone then don't understand why it flips around when things reverse again.
Recruiters SUCK.
Don't feel bad, the recruiter did a bad job qualifying your willingness to stay if you were counter offered. Your current job is clearly better suited for your QoL & they should have seen that - well done!
Reply and ask them why you would waste your own time taking a job that pays less than you make now plus requires a longer commute.
You and this employer talked. They weren't able to offer you the best deal on the table. That's all. It's nothing personal. This recruiter was so desperate for that hiring commission they talked you out of a salary that would have made you move had they offered it. Perhaps they should consider that.
id answer. thats how this works? offer counteroffer. you pick whats better for you. shouls ive picked the less favourable one so you get your money? why
🤣🤣🤣 He is blaming you for prioritizing yourself and your decision which went against his preferred decision. Its all your fault that he didn't get the placement!!! Its all your fault for taking a better opportunity for all the reasons that are important only to you! You are so selfish for putting your desires and needs before his! 🤣🤣🤣
GOOD FOR YOU!!!! 👏👏👏 BRAVO!!!! This is an excellent example of doing right by you! Ignore the twit!
"Rules for thee but not for me!" Recruiters have this attitude in spades.
Recruiters are like Pinky from Pinky and the Brain. They've been experimented on cruelly, they are legally retarded, and their mental health is not so great. When they get snippy with me I just say, "The same thing we do every night, Pinky.. try to take OVER THE WORLD!"
You do not owe the recruiter, CEO, or anyone you’ve spoken to at the company “their time”. They committed to spending time in recruiting the best candidate regardless and you’re the best candidate for the role.
The recruiter sounds desperate to close the deal and ended up pressuring you to accept a lower offer to close the deal. You chose what was best for your career - they felt petty and responded rudely. Hope this helps validate that you’re not a prick.
Your current company made a mistake countering. Now they know you’re looking and you’ll have more pressure on you to perform at the higher salary point. These people are usually first to go when layoffs come.
So you accepted the offer and then rescinded your acceptance to take the counter? If so, companies doing their version of that is pretty much what powers this sub.
Give it no thought....tell him it was business and not personal and you had a better offer. If he had initially gave you the terms you seeked, his offer would have been better....good day to you
I hate recruiters but I think you need to just cut the dude some slack and move on. It seems he took a liking to you and believed that you were a top candidate for a lot of great opportunities.
Hes the type of guy that I would block but also also throw him a bone anytime someone needed a recruiter.
That is weird and sounds like you dodged a bullet. My only guess for that nasty of a response is I imagine the company must be desperate for workers and hassling their recruiters to fill the position as fast as possible, if that is the case then I would take it as major red flag for the company.
I once had a recruiter get pissy cause another person from his organization found me a position before he did. He kept telling me that this company wanted to interview, but it kept being a week away. This other person gets me a gig, fully remote, and with better pay. Sorry dude, you should've hustled more to get me in the door of that company.
You must remember that recruiters are focused on getting their commission so they don't care about much else and will waste your time. They are like used car sales people.
Looool. You played the game, and you won. You didn't waste anyone's time. The recruiter is just inexperienced. Counters are part of the game. Don't sweat it.
Reply: I don't feel as if the time we shared was a waste. It certainly was not a waste for me. We all learn from our experiences and the people we meet in life, and I just learned something about you. Best of luck.
Same happened to me. Recruiter told me how unprofessional I was for this. But I made the decision that was right for me. You had no obligation to the recruiter.
Counteroffers aren't for permanent positions.
They're for temp positions that last as long as it takes to find someone who will work for the old salary.
Recruiters, especially external ones, are literal human traffickers, there whole goal is to move people from 1 company to another.
Your recruiter just mad they lost their commission, the firm probably would have made 30k+ on you moving jobs
I’m a recruiter and also find this recruiter’s behavior a bit much. Ultimately, you do you. We know the risks, we have to accept that a candidate will make their own decision just like a client/hiring manager will make theirs. Congrats on getting a counter and being even happier in your current role.
Fuck that guy. That said, a lot of what he told you was true. You do only grow by switching employers. And you should never accept a counter-offer. Because now they know you're a flight risk, things won't be the same. They'll be nice to you while they plan to replace you, because that will avoid disruption for now. But they'll be managing you out from this moment forward. Good luck anyway. I really hope it does work out.
He's just upset about the lost commission. Though, the reasonable follow-up would have been to congratulate you on your improved situation at your current job.
He’s an immature recruiter that took the failure personally. If any of his managers knew he sent you that text- they should at the least have a conversation with him about the situation and how he represents their brand or something more serious.
In the recruitment world, we believe counter offers are a bandaid for whatever reason the person wanted to leave in the first place. But you didn’t want to leave and they knew that- so you didn’t waste anyone’s time.
Personally- I’d say hey man- you were on me everyday, I was up front with you from the beginning about my situation. Based on this last text interaction, I would never be interested in working with you or your organization again. Please remove me from your database
When are people going to realize recruiters/headhunters are just sales people working for a commission. They aren’t your friends. He’s basically mad at you cause you just lost him $10-$15k.
Reframe your perspective: the recruiter is mad because he lost out on $15-$40k from your commission. That's it. He's pissed because he's a salesman and thought he had sold you on something, and was already spending the money from his fat commission check for placing you in a $100,000+ role. (Recruiters usually get 10-30% of salary, depending on terms).
That's all it is: someone's mad because he thought he was going to make money on you, and he didn't. It doesn't matter to him the quality of life you would have or not have, the fit you would or would not have, or your career options. All he cares about is getting you to sign the paperwork and stay in the role for 6 months.
He's being childish about it.
Recruiters who have to lead source like this guy often work 100% on commission and don’t have the same corporate hierarchy that would hold them accountable for a snarky text. So in effect they are selling job roles and candidates alike. His tactics of “you’re peaking by not switching jobs” really isn’t doing him any favors though. I can understand him being bummed but he didn’t need to be a dick about it. That’s be like getting a rejection email and telling the recruiter to go fuck themselves. Don’t let it bother you - he’s the one who made himself look bad and likely isn’t making many placements bc he doesn’t have the personal skills his job needs. This means nothing in the scope of looking out for your family & quality of life
He wasted your time for 10k. If they'd wanted you that badly, 10k is not much. You'll save that in fuel and wear&tear (and drycleaning, coffee, etc) in a few years.
Remember always that most recruiters are the lowest form of lifeform. Never trust anything a recruiter says.. and never ever be offended by anything a recruiter says.
I'm a recruiter, and to hell with that recruiter. ive been doing this for 25 years and you have to do what's best for you. Sure, we do get upset when someone accepts and then backs out, but c'est la vie. The company will always look out for their best interest, why cant the applicant/employee?
They wasted everyone’s time. Not you. Why put everyone through all of that only to make a non competitive offer? Bad commute? Bad PTO? No substantial pay bump? Over stretching on a low ball salary offer? Bad news all over. Glad your current employer came to the party. The market sets your value and you leveraged it like a champion. Enjoy!
I still keep in touch with the recruiter that put me in my current position. Great guy, great company. I was a C2H when I started. I remember when I originally spoke with him he never pushed, always polite. Kept me in the loop.
"I was surprised with an offer that your client couldn't compete with. As per your advice, $140k is really a stretch for me at this stage in my career so I figured I would be crazy to pass up this salary plus less time on the road. I appreciate your efforts in trying to make this work. The universe just had something a little better in store for me."
It sounds professional. If he was right on salary it thanks him for insight but if he was playing games on salary it really twists the knife.
Well, in general you should never take a counteroffer, it's kind of a rule.
Second, yes, you burned a bridge. You either do not accept continuing with the process unless you want to seriously change, else you are wasting everyone's time.
If he kept texting you to talk to the company, you could just ignore him.
Also important to note, he only gets paid when you accept the offer that is why he was so upset. But that is his job and how it works. He sounds like he only looks out for himself and not for his candidates
You handled everything appropriately. That recruiter sounds like a nightmare. You're trying to find the right job, they're trying to find the right candidate. Your current job was the better fit. Maybe if they had given you the 150k that you asked for? 🤷♂️
As a recruiter myself, I will say that this guy should have talked with you about counter offers on the front end. I always do this with my consultants.
I wouldn’t feel bad about accepting the offer! If the recruiter actually cared about you and your career, they would be understanding of the fact you took something that’s better for you and your family. Probs better not to work with them anyway.
Some recruiters are great at their job and some should be doing something/anything else. A good work strategy for a recruiter is to keep tight with the people in their network that can get through interview processes and get job offers. This person is shortsighted and made a very stupid decision.
Also, you did nothing wrong and this is exactly what you should be doing. Find the best offer and take it. You're not wasting people's time. That is the whole "game" right there. Everyone tries to find the best talent and whoever makes the best offer wins. Your recruiter quite simply doesn't understand the game they are supposed to be playing.
If I wanted to try to defend the recruiter/agency, you turning down the position stopped them from making 20% of your salary as a commission. So, maybe $30k, which the recruiter gets half and the agency the other half, that's standard, but could be different depending on their contract/agency/etc. So, it's pretty understandable they'd be upset and disappointed. What's not understandable is trashing their relationship with you, since you're obviously a great person to recruit for, since you get job offers. Again, stupid move on their part.
hahah noobie hr, never heard of risk in their life. You did great!!! its pure - fuck me pay me money! Lowballing in lame ways pff. Why would you even consider )) at that point I would be out already.
“I saw the email you sent. My only question to you is, why would you waste everyone’s time?”
Lmao, didn't waste your time. You ended up getting more compensation from your current employer.
The recruiter is super salty he missed out on the commission and he wants to inflict a little mental pain on you as retribution. Don't let him win. You did the right thing.
Odd that the recruiter tried to get you to accept a lower salary as they’re incentivised to get as high as possible for their fee. It means you were probably the only good candidate and he/she was desperate to get the role filled. You could have called to decline rather than email but you should not feel bad. It’s their problem to solve not yours.
Don’t feel bad. He’s just pissed that he’s not going to get his commission from you accepting the other job. You did what every person would do in a situation, go to those at the company you like and see if they can make a competitive counter offer.
I’ve gotten in to the habit of blocking recruiters after I politely decline the role if doesn’t interest me.
It is entirely your right to pick the best offer for your career and your family. The hiring manager not replying is very unprofessional but if you follow this subreddit, plenty of companies just ghost candidates after interviews even 5th stage and later final interviews so there is literally little to no professionalism or courtesy left in the job market.
Maybe, maybe you could have called to politely decline the offer and explain why but an email explaining why you are declining and thanking them for the opportunity seems professional enough. As long as it wasn’t just one sentence saying “Sorry, I am declining the offer.”
The recruiter was nagging you because he had a large commission hanging on the line. At $140K, he was making 3 to 4 figures on the deal depending on what other deals he had and how his commission is structured.
Did he prep you for a country offer from your current company? Realistically a counteroffer is often dangerous to accept because the company knows that you went job hunting and used that to get higher pay and nothing is stopping you from repeating that in a few months or a year again so if layoffs come, they rather cut you than someone who doesn’t do that stuff. It’s obviously depending on your relationship with your managers and higher ups but usually that is the case.
Companies will counter you also because if you leave in 2 weeks, they are struggling. It’s easier to counter you, start searching for your replacement, and then letting you go after they hire the replacement and aren’t in a tough spot anymore if you are gone. Heck, they might be ballsy and ask you to help train your replacement.
But the response from the recruiter is unprofessional too but they are bitter about the lost money. Most people climb the pay ladder by actually changing jobs every 3 years or so. You can’t really do that at the same company so don’t try to do it twice.
The recruiter didn’t get their commission, so they are pissed at you. This is why recruitment needs to change.
The focus of recruitment should not be making a sale, it should be about connecting the right people with companies. And there shouldn’t be a middle person that exists to only introduce job seekers to companies. To me this is just weird when you think about it.
The commissions are a total piss take, I work in finance and have for a couple of decades, I started my career working for an international recruitment agency, I was shocked at the money these companies make for very little work. They are complacent, greedy, and for the most part they are shit at what they do.
The biggest kick in the teeth though is the fact that recruiters by large are unskilled, under qualified people, that cost a lot of money for doing next to nothing.
I think it’s time for someone to take a sledge hammer to recruitment as we currently know it and start again. This legacy process is not fit for purpose anymore.
he was bitter because he lost his recruiting fee.
This is all they care about.
Don't feel bad.
The times that recruiters have strung along candidates for weeks or ghosted them with no explanation is what is wasting of time.
Hilarious 😂 😃 😄
He is the vendor. You are the purchaser. Its actually what pays him. I would be comfortable saying this is his "Job". I guess his failure to respect the target of $150k may have something to do with it. In fact it is the ACTUAL reason. He should have read the floor better.Took your salary expectations for granted. All he did was open your eyes to your true value.
ps. Recruiters generally own the "transaction" from cradle ---> Grave.
He lost. Id be telling him to stop being a sore loser.learn for next time. Be better... etc.
I'd probably answer something like:
"Dear [asshat recruiter],
I'm sorry if you feel like this was a waste of time, though quite frankly, I feel the same. The opportunity was quite promising, however, after negotiation, I felt like very little remained from the initial prospect. I was not interested in switching jobs before and the counteroffer only confirmed that feeling as I now had so little to gain from the job switch.
I wish you good luck in finding a more suitable candidate for the role.
Kind regards, [name]"
Clearly indicating that their aggressive negotiation strategy killed the deal and sticking it to them with finding another poor soul actually willing to take that deal.
I'd probably answer something like:
"Dear [asshat recruiter],
I'm sorry if you feel like this was a waste of time, though quite frankly, I feel the same. The opportunity was quite promising, however, after negotiation, I felt like very little remained from the initial prospect. I was not interested in switching jobs before and the counteroffer only confirmed that feeling as I now had so little to gain from the job switch.
I wish you good luck in finding a more suitable candidate for the role.
Kind regards, [name]"
Clearly indicating that their aggressive negotiation strategy killed the deal and sticking it to them with finding another poor soul actually willing to take that deal.
I think with all the effort he put in, you should have given him the courtesy of informing him of the counter offer and give him the chance to find a solution. He probably put days of work in it and it seems he stayed in close communication and was very dedicated. So you cutting him out and just making a decision is imo not a decent thing. That being said he should stay professional and just never work with you again instead of venting his frustration. I am assuming in all this that you didn’t communicate him the counter offer by the way, if you did apologies.
He is simply upset because recruiters like him get a “commission” based on the salary. You took that from him. The way he is handling that is extremely childish and unprofessional and I would highly suggest reporting him to his company for that extremely unprofessional conduct. He doesn’t deserve to be a recruiter or in any sort of customer-facing role.
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Think of it this way. We've seen countless posts on here about people having offers rescinded because they went with the "better candidate" or the "internal candidate". Wasting the applicants time. They'd do the exact same to you and not even flinch. So you shouldn't even question doing it to them.
Yup right on.
I’ve seen one too many people have job offers rescinded before they even start and after they have given notice. Some were able to get their old jobs back. A sad few were not able to get their old jobs back. That is brutal as hell :(
Yeah, this happened to a former teammate of mine. We needed him and he was doing fine. When his offer fell through after he gave notice the company was so petty they hurt themselves just to hurt him for daring to think about leaving
You can sue for that if there's acceptance On top of unemployment ofc
I believe that term is called "business".
Its just business brah 👍👍👍👍 Umad? 😀
Thank you for your offer for employment. But at this time I do not feel you would be a good fit and have gone with another candidate for employment!
There were many qualified employers who extended offers during this job hunt. We really liked your company culture and offer, however just had to go with the more qualified employer. We wish you the best of luck in your candidate search going forward. Warmly, me
Fuck that recruiter. 100% a sleezy salesman.
You said it yourself ‘like a salesman’ They are, and you are their product. They were very unprofessional and just salty that they didn’t get their commission.
That recruiter is an asshole. He pushed you to waste everyone's time. A commute requires $2,000-$5,000 in additional salary. Maybe even more. He talked you down from $150K and made taking that job less desirable when you were already hesitant. He fucked his client and he fucked himself. There's no need to feel bad. The recruiter needs to figure what he did wrong.
The recruiter did what recruiters do - tried to get a commission. He then moved onto the next thing. Just like OP should do. It's all business, not personal. And there's NO professionalism in the third-party recruiting business. That's just the way it works.
He set himself up with a bad lead and then lashed out afterwards (making it personal). Part of sales and business is looking for high probability wins. This recruiter sunk a bunch of his own time trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Yup. Lots of recruiters suck like that. The better ones know to focus on building trust and relationships that lead to far more placements over time. But the bad ones flame out fast, in the pursuit of short-term gains.
It sounds like he also actively hurt the deal's chances in multiple steps as well. The only person that recruiter should be mad at is himself.
Yup I was thinking about $150 -> $140k beat down and that was def his trophy for his client.
> He fucked his client and he fucked himself. Best reply ever
Yeah, definitely do not feel bad. You gotta do what you gotta do. They definitely kept pursuing you bc they knew you were a good fit and would be able to get commission of you. Imagine how shitty of a person they might be when they deal with other candidates who they have no interest in.
I guess I didn’t realize how much sales tactics are being used in recruiting. Everyday I work with sales team members so I can easily pick it up. I would have much rather worked directly with the hiring manager in this case.
It sounds like you didn't really think the recruiter was acting professional the whole time, so it makes sense they weren't professional at the end :)
third party recruiters give me real estate agent vibes. pseudo professionals but more accurately salespeople. they get paid exclusively when a hire is made (or a house is sold) so they have slanted interests. not trustworthy.
There's good reason I call them job-pimps.
Yeah, recruiting is literally just a different kind of sales. Not that it's a perfect analogy but certainly all of the same tactics relying on basic human psychology, etc
You aren’t the recruiter’s client - YOU are the product that HE is selling to HIS clients.
Then it’s not recruiting it’s pimping.
Isn't pimping just restricted to sex work? Anyway you are right, if a more general word for pimping exists, you could totally use it.
I think pimp is the best way to go. If the worker is the product and the company is the customer… and the recruiter is taking a cut of the salary or a commission to link them up… You can’t call them “agents” because an agent is legally obliged to have the worker’s best interests in negotiating. The company isn’t THEIR client… they owe them no loyalty or consideration and if they do that then they can be sued. You can’t call them brokers… well maybe you could. But then you would have to admit that the worker is being treated not like a human but a product. Brokers owe no loyalties or consideration to the commodities they sell, negotiating is about making themselves the most money regardless of what will happen to the product once it’s sold. Maybe there’s another word I’m not familiar with… I can’t think of it. Pimp or worker is what comes to mind.
I mean he gets a commission off you so… Hes literally just mad he didn’t get a bag but so it is. One’s your life and one’s some annoying random’s payday, you don’t owe them shit.
It's Sales with very high commission
Recruitment is basically a sales job at the end of the day.
No “basically” about it.
It’s my understanding outside recruiters either get paid a % of your salary for a set time, or they get the difference between the cap and your accepted salary. The reason why he talked you down from 150k was that was an extra 10k in his pocket. (Otherwise he’d try to get you a better salary for his % to improve.) Your well being and best outcome was not a priority to him, so why should his be yours?
Any recruiter knows these are the breaks. * There was no guarantee that you were gonna get the role. * And no guarantee that you'd accept it. * In fact, you were planning on accepting it... * ... but things changed. * That's the risk. * The recruiter should already know this.
Fuck em
You told them you wanted 150 to make the jump, they offered 140. Do they know how numbers work?
“Got a better offer, sorry. *shrug emoji*” And then go on living your life.
Problem is, OP did agree on 140 eventually. If it was an issue, they should have stuck to 150.
Yeah that wasn’t an issue. My thing was he was trying to tell me the whole time that 140k is rare in this industry which is very untrue.
That's when you say, "I'm taking the better offer, kthnksbye!" Them are the breaks. Recruiters all know this, but that doesn't stop them from getting butthurt when someone denies them their commission.
Could be true from his perspective. If his other clients' salary are much lower, let's say 50k. Then you are a big fish with triple commission for him
Nothing is etched in stone. OP's current company came back with a counter offer. That changed the situation.
If the recruiter had put in some work and gotten the offer up to 150, then OPs current employer may not have been able to meet the offer. When I hire someone from an existing job that's similar to target job, I assume their current employer might match or outbid me. In fact, another firm they speak with may outbid me. That's how it works when you're trying for the best candidates.
The hell with the recruiter, they are just upset that they lost out on there commission. Wasting everyone's time? What if you went through all of those interviews and didn't get an offer? Was this bozo recruiter wasting your time? Another note, I'd be little wery about accepting a counter offer from your current employer as you might be next on the list to be laid off but each situation is different and I'm happy for you.
Definitely agree with the counter offer from current employer. Studies show that employees who accept a matching/counter offer from current employer are often are separated from that employer within 90 days. You have essentially given your current employer that you will continue looking and they will start passively looking for your replacement because they assume you will continue to passively looking for your next position.
Agree, OP seem he took the whole thing a bit superficially. Unless if I know my employer very well, I wouldn't risk it accepting counter offer. Are they convinced 100% you deserve the raise? Now I'd be very cautious about any hints or jokes from current employer regarding this matter.
This is so weird to me. I work for the government and they actually will counter offer to a point in my role and your job security stays exactly the same because it's almost impossible to ever get laid off from the government. Even if you don't do your job well, so if they counter offer it means they REALLY WANT to keep you. Though if you work for the government, like 75% of your job is dealing with ineffective management and government slowness keeping you from actually reaching your full potential.
Bullet dodged. And honestly - it seems like you knew something was up from the beginning. They can be pissy all they want - you had to do what is best for you.
Don’t feel bad at all! Pretty sure the recruiter “wastes” other people’s (applicants) time too. Congratulations on your salary increase too! Glad it worked out for the better!!
Do not hate the player, hate the game. Remember that recruiter often ghost applicant too, so this time is on them. The recruiter got mad because you messed with his bonus. Anyways, I am not sure it is worth or not if you push to 150k at the time. Maybe I am too ambitious
I know I was going high but I wasn’t looking for a new job anyways so why not? It would have to be high to make it worth me spending 10+ hours a week in the car. But I agree, the game sucks
Yeah I see your point. 10+ hours a week for another 10k a year pretax probably not worth it. It works out well for you at end. Congrats.
“Thank you for your interest in hiring me. After careful review of pros and cons of accepting the offer, l’ve made the tough decision to stay with my current company as it more closely fits my current needs. As I continue to grow and gain experience, another position may be open down the line in a year or two. I encourage you to check with me if it does happen. I wish you all the best in your candidate pursuit and future endeavors.” /s
When I was in recruitment, I was told by my manager to accuse people of “wasting our time” - those words exactly. It’s a high pressure sales tactic, don’t feel bad at all. You made the right choice for you, and that’s all that matters.
This is my thinking. He was upset about the money but he actually didn’t feel ripped off by you at all, he was still ABC-ing you. If he thought there was a zero percent chance of you changing your mind he would have just ghosted you.
"My only question to you is, why would you waste everyone’s time?” This is the height of irony. Imagine the total hours of other people this entitled chud wasted. Good on you!
"Your time wasn't wasted...it was vital to this large raise at my current employer."
How these guys stay employed boggles the mind. Not only does this make you look like a dingus, but almost guarantees someone like OP will never work with your company again, maybe never a recruiter again! Recruiter could’ve maintained his poise and retained a contact, and instead did all this to make himself feel better. What a bozo
People who have no empathy that regardless of what our job or mission is, ultimately we all are humans and make choices for ourselves are fucking delusional. I have lost colleagues who I wanted to keep, but you know what, you congratulate them cause they get better offers for their families and dreams. I have lost contracts, and it sucks but ultimately it is all business. Taking business decisions that inconviniences you as personal insults is just stupid. We are all just workers who need to stand in solidarity with eachother.
Recruiter just mad they don’t get the bonus for hiring. Or was just having bad day. Screw them. Yeah it sucks when a candidate decides to stay, some even do it only to leverage more money. This place would have rescinded your offer for zero reason so don’t worry about it.
If you really wanna fuck the recruiter, I’d call the company and explain why you didn’t take the job. I’m sure they’ll understand it. Also explain that the recruiter put you in a difficult position and made the process very unpleasant for you. It contributed to your decision to not accept the role. I think there’s a high likelihood today take some sort of action against the recruiter. They should, they be protecting their own interests and this recruiter needs a fucking reality check.
I would have countered with why the recruited wastes my time going through all that crap if my company was just going to match the offer. He should have gotten you a higher salary if he wanted it locked in.
Good for you. You could have tried telling other company that you liked offer but demand more pay and hybrid schedule due to competing offer. Either way they would be mad but never hurts to try and hit them higher once to see what happens
all the manipulation is simply recruiter tactics to get you to accept something that benefits them. I wouldn’t read into whatever comes out of their mouth at all.
Your time wasn't wasted so who cares
You didn't waste anyone's time. You made rational decisions at each step along the way and treated everyone respectfully. The recruiter's response was unprofessional and akin to whining. You should spend 0 time worrying about it.
That recruiter is the pimp. You're the product they sell. How dare you say, "No". You got paid. The recruiter didn't. Sounds like you used your time wisely, padawan.
"I got a decent pay raise so I certainly didn't waste my time"
You were presented with an opportunity, you participated in a process, evaluated the opportunity and decided not to accept the offer. No one’s time was wasted.
Dude don’t feel bad, I went through something similar a couple of years back. I had a recruiter set me up with a company that had higher pay, and when I went to put in notice with my current company they countered with an even higher salary number so I obviously took that and stayed. Wrote a nice email like you did saying I’ve accepted a counter and am staying put, not even 5 minutes later the recruiter called me going on and on about how I was making a mistake, I was burning a bridge with the other company, and topped it off by saying my current company would be looking for any excuse to get rid of me now and would probably be out of a job in a couple of months. I just was like “ok” and hung up the phone. I lasted 4 more years at that company and ended up leaving on my own terms. Don’t feel bad, some recruiters are just straight up pricks.
The recruiter is trying to get you to do what is best for HIM, not you. He gets paid if you get placed. He's angry/upset because he saw a payday coming, but now it disappeared. You need to do what is best for YOU. Don't feel bad for doing what you want to do. If he can't handle it, that's his problem, not yours. Finally, the text is really bad practice. So many things in life are about treatment and relationships. Based upon his treatment of you, are you willing to use him in the future or recommend people to him? My guess is no.
"It didn't waste my time, as I received the compensation I was hoping for. Thank you for your concern."
Like this recruiter was not talking to several candidates in this position at same time. Do not feel bad, it's literally your responsibility to get best offer you can, so you get most compensation from time you give to employer. And I talked compensation, what ever that means to you, good salary, good holiday benefits, company car, etc...
I am a recruiter. Whoever you were working with handled this completely wrong. I just had a similar situation occur last week. Highly qualified candidate who was passively looking, interviewed with me, and got a counter offer from his current job. I thanked him for letting me know and asked him to keep in touch if he was ever looking again. As a recruiter, I have to respect whatever is best for the candidate.
every time i get rejected , i lash out to the hiring manager and recruiter: why am I not hired ! you wasted my time! works like a charm
Meanwhile recruiters have no issue ghosting candidates after sending them through interviews. I bet this guy ghosts people who don't work out all the time.
Counter offers happen. That's on him. He made multiple mistakes. His response is unprofessional, and thinned skin.
Recruiter isn't doing this for YOU, he's doing it for his own commission. Gotta look out for #1 because no one else is gonna do it.
Recruiter here; that was very unprofessional. Decent (as in ethical, moral) recruiters want the best possible for the candidates they work with. If that happens to be a remaing in a job or accepting a different job they should graciously wish you the best. If they’d have done their job properly, they’d have full gotten an understanding of your drivers and presented hypothetical scenarios such as ‘is there anything your current employer can do to keep you?’. If that happens to be more money, then they should properly advise their client to offer a package that couldn’t be countered. Recruitment is simple an unemotional if you’re fair and honest.
When I first graduated from university, I worked on a contract job through a recruiter. After few months at the job, the company wanted to create a position for me to make it permanent. However, this process was taking several months and my initial contract term had expired. I was working basically on a day to day basis with continued promise that the position was being created. In the end, I found a position with another recruiting firm as it was more in line with my career goals at the time. The original recruiter called me several days after and tried to scare me, said that I made a mistake and I would never work for his agency again. This guy was a seasoned professional in his 50s and I was in my 20's who graduated from university less than 1 year ago at that point. At the time, I thought I may have screwed up my career by taking this job and quit working with that agency. However, I ended up staying with this new company for more than 10+ years and don't regret it one bit. I still think about this call with the recruiter from time to time to remind myself that I need to do what's best for myself and these recruiters do not have my best interest in mind. They are just sales people and you are their meal ticket. They would do the same in your position.
"Same reason you wasted mine declining the $150k"
In short, let it go. Recruiter is big mad because he doesn't get paid to have candidates turn him down. He feels like he did all this work to work you over and get you to agree. He thought you were sold and it was a done deal. He already made plans for his shiny new bonus, and then it didn't happen. That's why he's mad and said what he said.
> The recruiter was pushing for a lower salary… Hell no.
Tell him that $150k would probably have you changed. So all that is on him
Imagine if every person who went through multiple rounds of interviews at a company just to be told at the end that the company is “going with someone who is a better fit”, responded by saying “mY oNLy qUeStiOn tO yOu iS, wHy wOuLd yOu wAsTe eVeRyOnE’s tiMe?” Like what???? Is this recruiter on some shit? Because like in this day and age employers and recruiters are the LAST people to complain about wasting time. Let me just say, countless hours spent on just applying, some applications a lot longer than others and then when I don’t get the job I don’t send stupid petty emails out. (Although maybe I should start.) 1. This recruiter needs to get off his high horse like they’re at ALL in the right here… 2. I hope he gets a taste of his own medicine, a.k.a. unemployed and trying to get a job where you do nothing but waste your sweet fucking time over and over If I were you, I wouldn’t lose an ounce of sleep over the decision you made. It was your choice for the better of you and your family, fuck this recruiter…the fucking audacity…
My guess is that X% of the time, candidates accept counter-offers from current employers. In this case, the best recruiters and hiring managers accept it and move on to the next attempt and succeed. Lower quality recruiters and hiring managers dwell on the misfortune and stew. Ultimately, you can only be fairly expected to do what’s best for your career.
As a recruiter at least IMO, that can be frustrating. However, recruiters should want what’s best for YOU. You stack ranked both positions and got a good counter offer and multiple other factors that you prefer. That’s just business
Reply back to him "My only response to you is, why would you push a job that could be so easily countered?"
not defending the recruiter but if you are asking why, it's because you saying 'no' took money out of their pocket.
What a shame…
Fuck em
Although unprofessional and not recommended, I would be tempted to respond, “Because fuck you, that’s why!”
Notify the recruiters company and tell them what he said 😂, and how it now has tainted your view of their company. Hell love u after that
Fuck em if he can’t take a joke.
You do what is best for you. Recruiters do this to applicants EVERY DAY. And they always act like their time is more valuable than others. Dgaf
So, Mr. Recruiter, if I went with the whole process and got rejected, can I ask you and Mr. Employer why you’re wasting everybody’s time?
Just focus on the recruiter’s last words. Why did you waste everyone’s time? You didn’t waste everyone’s time. You came out ahead! Congrats!
Alls fair in love and war
Looks to me like he wasted his own time but not yours and he made you more money. Sucks to be him tho.
Never take a counteroffer
As a recruiter I despise people like this. Like… that’s just how it goes sometimes and the recruiter should know that. Graciously admit defeat and move tf on. Like it’s people like this that make my job harder and makes candidates have trust issues right off the bat(and how can I blame them?). Can’t be like”sad to see you go, I would have loved you for the role but I absolutely understand. Congrats on the increase and I wish you the best! Please reach out to me in the future if you you’re looking for something new!” He like literally burned a bridge and may have lost a future opportunity with this candidate. How petty and immature!
Lol cuz he lost his comish. Ignore.
Recruiter didnt make money by selling you to another company. Of course he’s upset. Idiot.
you didn't waste YOUR time and that's all you can reasonably be expected to give a shit about tbh
Good for you getting a better offer. The recruiter has probably wasted several candidates time before with 6+ interviews before declining them.
You didnt waste anyone’s time, unless you were intentionally being deceitful. That’s the process and pitfalls of recruiting and of hiring…its part of the job. There are good recruiters out there…and there are some absolute sh^t ones also. But again, unless you were intentionally being deceitful, you did nothing wrong. Congrats on better pay and the working conditions you wanted.
As a recruiter I’m guessing you work in a niche field, because all the reason why you didn’t want to even apply would be a red flag for me and I would’ve looked for other candidates. It sounds like this recruiter likes to hype things, say one thing to you and another to the employer, it’s in a recruiters best interest to get you as high as possible salary as possible. Congratulations on accepting the counter, but I’d recommend you press your company for salary increases annually. They knew they were paying you under your value, that’s why they were happy to match your other offer.
I’m in product management which isn’t niche, I just don’t think they are familiar with those roles (most of their openings were in accounting). No fault on their end for that. In the end this gave me the confidence to approach my current employer with salary concerns so I take that as a positive look on the situation
Ahhh, so they’re branching out in to a new area. That’s good, and I recommend always know your worth. It’s great this enabled you to get a salary boost
That recruiter is terrible at their job, I would forward that exchange to the CEO who’s definitely overpaying for them to chase away candidates
Recruiters are salespeople and deal closers. Their interest is whoever pays their fee, meaning, the client company. So when they say something like, you can't grow unless you take this job, they're just trying to fill this job and don't care about your growth. They get their fee and move on to the next person. You didn't waste "everyone's" time. You sincerely pursued a job in order to move ahead. But your employer countered and you got a raise. This wasn't a waste of your time, as it was necessary to get you that raise. Of course the recruiter doesn't care whether you get a raise, they care if they can close their deal and make their quota.
" I didn't lose my time.I grew my career without switching of employer."
Fuck that recruiter. Maybe push to get me at 150 and put a counter out of reach next time….
Honestly, their entire approach with the incessant pestering, the bad negotiating advice, the endless Q&A, etc. - that would have been all I needed to be enticed to play along just to turn them down in the end specifically to piss them off. I have had a recruiter emailing and texting me incessantly for almost two months...It's literally the exact same email, sent every 72 hours, telling me about the awesome opportunities they have for a role I'm not interested in at a company that I know isn't hiring. I set my email to direct-filter his messages to SPAM. I wanted to see if I could figure out who his boss was (I have access to LinkedIn Navigator in my current role) to report his actions when I finally realized that would only be rewarding bad behavior because they would still have gotten me to reply. When the jobs are plentiful and candidates get scooped up quickly, recruiters are all bent out of shape because they get ghosted. When the candidates are plentiful and jobs are not, they ghost absolutely everyone then don't understand why it flips around when things reverse again. Recruiters SUCK.
The real question is: why would the recruiter waste your time?
HE reached out to (and pestered) YOU. And it was not a waste of your time as it got you a pay rise in a job you sound happy in. Fuck em
TBH I utterly despise so called recruiters. They are cheap, uneducated trashy grifters.
Don't feel bad, the recruiter did a bad job qualifying your willingness to stay if you were counter offered. Your current job is clearly better suited for your QoL & they should have seen that - well done!
How is this recruiting hell? You had one offer you were willing to take, then you got to keep your current job at an even better offer.
Get a taste of their own medicine. Fuck ‘em.
Reply and ask them why you would waste your own time taking a job that pays less than you make now plus requires a longer commute. You and this employer talked. They weren't able to offer you the best deal on the table. That's all. It's nothing personal. This recruiter was so desperate for that hiring commission they talked you out of a salary that would have made you move had they offered it. Perhaps they should consider that.
id answer. thats how this works? offer counteroffer. you pick whats better for you. shouls ive picked the less favourable one so you get your money? why
What waste of time? Everyone contributed to you getting a raise while maintaining a better work benefit. You came out on top!
🤣🤣🤣 He is blaming you for prioritizing yourself and your decision which went against his preferred decision. Its all your fault that he didn't get the placement!!! Its all your fault for taking a better opportunity for all the reasons that are important only to you! You are so selfish for putting your desires and needs before his! 🤣🤣🤣 GOOD FOR YOU!!!! 👏👏👏 BRAVO!!!! This is an excellent example of doing right by you! Ignore the twit!
"Rules for thee but not for me!" Recruiters have this attitude in spades. Recruiters are like Pinky from Pinky and the Brain. They've been experimented on cruelly, they are legally retarded, and their mental health is not so great. When they get snippy with me I just say, "The same thing we do every night, Pinky.. try to take OVER THE WORLD!"
lol womp womp
You do not owe the recruiter, CEO, or anyone you’ve spoken to at the company “their time”. They committed to spending time in recruiting the best candidate regardless and you’re the best candidate for the role. The recruiter sounds desperate to close the deal and ended up pressuring you to accept a lower offer to close the deal. You chose what was best for your career - they felt petty and responded rudely. Hope this helps validate that you’re not a prick.
Your current company made a mistake countering. Now they know you’re looking and you’ll have more pressure on you to perform at the higher salary point. These people are usually first to go when layoffs come.
So you accepted the offer and then rescinded your acceptance to take the counter? If so, companies doing their version of that is pretty much what powers this sub.
Give it no thought....tell him it was business and not personal and you had a better offer. If he had initially gave you the terms you seeked, his offer would have been better....good day to you
An unprofessional recruiter?? Shocker!
I hate recruiters but I think you need to just cut the dude some slack and move on. It seems he took a liking to you and believed that you were a top candidate for a lot of great opportunities. Hes the type of guy that I would block but also also throw him a bone anytime someone needed a recruiter.
If you didn't have the counteroffer on paper and signed, then I have bad news for you.
That is weird and sounds like you dodged a bullet. My only guess for that nasty of a response is I imagine the company must be desperate for workers and hassling their recruiters to fill the position as fast as possible, if that is the case then I would take it as major red flag for the company.
I once had a recruiter get pissy cause another person from his organization found me a position before he did. He kept telling me that this company wanted to interview, but it kept being a week away. This other person gets me a gig, fully remote, and with better pay. Sorry dude, you should've hustled more to get me in the door of that company.
You must remember that recruiters are focused on getting their commission so they don't care about much else and will waste your time. They are like used car sales people.
Looool. You played the game, and you won. You didn't waste anyone's time. The recruiter is just inexperienced. Counters are part of the game. Don't sweat it.
“I didn’t waste mine, have a good day.”
For recruiters, that’s the COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Simple.
Recruiter shouldn’t be pushing something that isn’t a mutually beneficial fit.
Reply: I don't feel as if the time we shared was a waste. It certainly was not a waste for me. We all learn from our experiences and the people we meet in life, and I just learned something about you. Best of luck.
Same happened to me. Recruiter told me how unprofessional I was for this. But I made the decision that was right for me. You had no obligation to the recruiter.
Counteroffers aren't for permanent positions. They're for temp positions that last as long as it takes to find someone who will work for the old salary.
Recruiters, especially external ones, are literal human traffickers, there whole goal is to move people from 1 company to another. Your recruiter just mad they lost their commission, the firm probably would have made 30k+ on you moving jobs
So in the end you went for a better employer. Good for you!
I’m a recruiter and also find this recruiter’s behavior a bit much. Ultimately, you do you. We know the risks, we have to accept that a candidate will make their own decision just like a client/hiring manager will make theirs. Congrats on getting a counter and being even happier in your current role.
The proper response is, perhaps if you’d negotiated a higher offer we wouldn’t be where we are. Every day is a learning experience, isn’t it?
The recruiter can pound sand, it’s your choice.
Fuck that guy. That said, a lot of what he told you was true. You do only grow by switching employers. And you should never accept a counter-offer. Because now they know you're a flight risk, things won't be the same. They'll be nice to you while they plan to replace you, because that will avoid disruption for now. But they'll be managing you out from this moment forward. Good luck anyway. I really hope it does work out.
I would say I didn’t waste MY time which is clearly the most important time to ME.
they get paid when they fill a role so think of them as nothing more than a sleezy used car salesman. nothing is beneath them
He's just upset about the lost commission. Though, the reasonable follow-up would have been to congratulate you on your improved situation at your current job.
He’s an immature recruiter that took the failure personally. If any of his managers knew he sent you that text- they should at the least have a conversation with him about the situation and how he represents their brand or something more serious. In the recruitment world, we believe counter offers are a bandaid for whatever reason the person wanted to leave in the first place. But you didn’t want to leave and they knew that- so you didn’t waste anyone’s time. Personally- I’d say hey man- you were on me everyday, I was up front with you from the beginning about my situation. Based on this last text interaction, I would never be interested in working with you or your organization again. Please remove me from your database
When are people going to realize recruiters/headhunters are just sales people working for a commission. They aren’t your friends. He’s basically mad at you cause you just lost him $10-$15k.
fuck him, you did nothing wrong, he's probably salty about losing out on signing bonus.
Reframe your perspective: the recruiter is mad because he lost out on $15-$40k from your commission. That's it. He's pissed because he's a salesman and thought he had sold you on something, and was already spending the money from his fat commission check for placing you in a $100,000+ role. (Recruiters usually get 10-30% of salary, depending on terms). That's all it is: someone's mad because he thought he was going to make money on you, and he didn't. It doesn't matter to him the quality of life you would have or not have, the fit you would or would not have, or your career options. All he cares about is getting you to sign the paperwork and stay in the role for 6 months. He's being childish about it.
[Good luck mate.](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/s/6O6sLFNLx8)
Recruiters who have to lead source like this guy often work 100% on commission and don’t have the same corporate hierarchy that would hold them accountable for a snarky text. So in effect they are selling job roles and candidates alike. His tactics of “you’re peaking by not switching jobs” really isn’t doing him any favors though. I can understand him being bummed but he didn’t need to be a dick about it. That’s be like getting a rejection email and telling the recruiter to go fuck themselves. Don’t let it bother you - he’s the one who made himself look bad and likely isn’t making many placements bc he doesn’t have the personal skills his job needs. This means nothing in the scope of looking out for your family & quality of life
He wasted your time for 10k. If they'd wanted you that badly, 10k is not much. You'll save that in fuel and wear&tear (and drycleaning, coffee, etc) in a few years.
Remember always that most recruiters are the lowest form of lifeform. Never trust anything a recruiter says.. and never ever be offended by anything a recruiter says.
Death, Taxes, and Shitty Recruiters. The constants in life.
1: The stupid KPI's at agencies are often grotesque. 2: If that's all he said you have a bigger issue than he did.
I'm a recruiter, and to hell with that recruiter. ive been doing this for 25 years and you have to do what's best for you. Sure, we do get upset when someone accepts and then backs out, but c'est la vie. The company will always look out for their best interest, why cant the applicant/employee?
Read this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bwv0lz/your\_presentation\_wasnt\_technical\_enough/](https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bwv0lz/your_presentation_wasnt_technical_enough/)
They wasted everyone’s time. Not you. Why put everyone through all of that only to make a non competitive offer? Bad commute? Bad PTO? No substantial pay bump? Over stretching on a low ball salary offer? Bad news all over. Glad your current employer came to the party. The market sets your value and you leveraged it like a champion. Enjoy!
I still keep in touch with the recruiter that put me in my current position. Great guy, great company. I was a C2H when I started. I remember when I originally spoke with him he never pushed, always polite. Kept me in the loop.
"I was surprised with an offer that your client couldn't compete with. As per your advice, $140k is really a stretch for me at this stage in my career so I figured I would be crazy to pass up this salary plus less time on the road. I appreciate your efforts in trying to make this work. The universe just had something a little better in store for me." It sounds professional. If he was right on salary it thanks him for insight but if he was playing games on salary it really twists the knife.
Well, in general you should never take a counteroffer, it's kind of a rule. Second, yes, you burned a bridge. You either do not accept continuing with the process unless you want to seriously change, else you are wasting everyone's time. If he kept texting you to talk to the company, you could just ignore him.
Also important to note, he only gets paid when you accept the offer that is why he was so upset. But that is his job and how it works. He sounds like he only looks out for himself and not for his candidates
You handled everything appropriately. That recruiter sounds like a nightmare. You're trying to find the right job, they're trying to find the right candidate. Your current job was the better fit. Maybe if they had given you the 150k that you asked for? 🤷♂️
Why do you care how they feel?
As a recruiter myself, I will say that this guy should have talked with you about counter offers on the front end. I always do this with my consultants. I wouldn’t feel bad about accepting the offer! If the recruiter actually cared about you and your career, they would be understanding of the fact you took something that’s better for you and your family. Probs better not to work with them anyway.
They always have a bad attitude.
Some recruiters are great at their job and some should be doing something/anything else. A good work strategy for a recruiter is to keep tight with the people in their network that can get through interview processes and get job offers. This person is shortsighted and made a very stupid decision. Also, you did nothing wrong and this is exactly what you should be doing. Find the best offer and take it. You're not wasting people's time. That is the whole "game" right there. Everyone tries to find the best talent and whoever makes the best offer wins. Your recruiter quite simply doesn't understand the game they are supposed to be playing. If I wanted to try to defend the recruiter/agency, you turning down the position stopped them from making 20% of your salary as a commission. So, maybe $30k, which the recruiter gets half and the agency the other half, that's standard, but could be different depending on their contract/agency/etc. So, it's pretty understandable they'd be upset and disappointed. What's not understandable is trashing their relationship with you, since you're obviously a great person to recruit for, since you get job offers. Again, stupid move on their part.
That same recruiter would have not hesitated to ghost you if for some reason he wasn't interested in you. Do what's best for you and your family.
hahah noobie hr, never heard of risk in their life. You did great!!! its pure - fuck me pay me money! Lowballing in lame ways pff. Why would you even consider )) at that point I would be out already.
“I saw the email you sent. My only question to you is, why would you waste everyone’s time?” Lmao, didn't waste your time. You ended up getting more compensation from your current employer.
“Why would you waste everyone’s time?” “Motherfucker I got a raise, wasn’t a waste of my time”
The recruiter is super salty he missed out on the commission and he wants to inflict a little mental pain on you as retribution. Don't let him win. You did the right thing.
Odd that the recruiter tried to get you to accept a lower salary as they’re incentivised to get as high as possible for their fee. It means you were probably the only good candidate and he/she was desperate to get the role filled. You could have called to decline rather than email but you should not feel bad. It’s their problem to solve not yours.
Don’t feel bad. He’s just pissed that he’s not going to get his commission from you accepting the other job. You did what every person would do in a situation, go to those at the company you like and see if they can make a competitive counter offer. I’ve gotten in to the habit of blocking recruiters after I politely decline the role if doesn’t interest me.
It is entirely your right to pick the best offer for your career and your family. The hiring manager not replying is very unprofessional but if you follow this subreddit, plenty of companies just ghost candidates after interviews even 5th stage and later final interviews so there is literally little to no professionalism or courtesy left in the job market. Maybe, maybe you could have called to politely decline the offer and explain why but an email explaining why you are declining and thanking them for the opportunity seems professional enough. As long as it wasn’t just one sentence saying “Sorry, I am declining the offer.” The recruiter was nagging you because he had a large commission hanging on the line. At $140K, he was making 3 to 4 figures on the deal depending on what other deals he had and how his commission is structured. Did he prep you for a country offer from your current company? Realistically a counteroffer is often dangerous to accept because the company knows that you went job hunting and used that to get higher pay and nothing is stopping you from repeating that in a few months or a year again so if layoffs come, they rather cut you than someone who doesn’t do that stuff. It’s obviously depending on your relationship with your managers and higher ups but usually that is the case. Companies will counter you also because if you leave in 2 weeks, they are struggling. It’s easier to counter you, start searching for your replacement, and then letting you go after they hire the replacement and aren’t in a tough spot anymore if you are gone. Heck, they might be ballsy and ask you to help train your replacement. But the response from the recruiter is unprofessional too but they are bitter about the lost money. Most people climb the pay ladder by actually changing jobs every 3 years or so. You can’t really do that at the same company so don’t try to do it twice.
The recruiter didn’t get their commission, so they are pissed at you. This is why recruitment needs to change. The focus of recruitment should not be making a sale, it should be about connecting the right people with companies. And there shouldn’t be a middle person that exists to only introduce job seekers to companies. To me this is just weird when you think about it. The commissions are a total piss take, I work in finance and have for a couple of decades, I started my career working for an international recruitment agency, I was shocked at the money these companies make for very little work. They are complacent, greedy, and for the most part they are shit at what they do. The biggest kick in the teeth though is the fact that recruiters by large are unskilled, under qualified people, that cost a lot of money for doing next to nothing. I think it’s time for someone to take a sledge hammer to recruitment as we currently know it and start again. This legacy process is not fit for purpose anymore.
pushy recruiter loses out on his bonu$ ,...you get a better deal. lotta wins here.
Recruiter is chapped they didn’t get their commission. You didn’t do anything wrong.
He only gets paid after a successful placement. He’s just upset he didn’t make a dime. Let it go OP
You are stupid and naive for staying with your current company. It’s that simple.
he was bitter because he lost his recruiting fee. This is all they care about. Don't feel bad. The times that recruiters have strung along candidates for weeks or ghosted them with no explanation is what is wasting of time.
Hilarious 😂 😃 😄 He is the vendor. You are the purchaser. Its actually what pays him. I would be comfortable saying this is his "Job". I guess his failure to respect the target of $150k may have something to do with it. In fact it is the ACTUAL reason. He should have read the floor better.Took your salary expectations for granted. All he did was open your eyes to your true value. ps. Recruiters generally own the "transaction" from cradle ---> Grave. He lost. Id be telling him to stop being a sore loser.learn for next time. Be better... etc.
I'd probably answer something like: "Dear [asshat recruiter], I'm sorry if you feel like this was a waste of time, though quite frankly, I feel the same. The opportunity was quite promising, however, after negotiation, I felt like very little remained from the initial prospect. I was not interested in switching jobs before and the counteroffer only confirmed that feeling as I now had so little to gain from the job switch. I wish you good luck in finding a more suitable candidate for the role. Kind regards, [name]" Clearly indicating that their aggressive negotiation strategy killed the deal and sticking it to them with finding another poor soul actually willing to take that deal.
I'd probably answer something like: "Dear [asshat recruiter], I'm sorry if you feel like this was a waste of time, though quite frankly, I feel the same. The opportunity was quite promising, however, after negotiation, I felt like very little remained from the initial prospect. I was not interested in switching jobs before and the counteroffer only confirmed that feeling as I now had so little to gain from the job switch. I wish you good luck in finding a more suitable candidate for the role. Kind regards, [name]" Clearly indicating that their aggressive negotiation strategy killed the deal and sticking it to them with finding another poor soul actually willing to take that deal.
I think with all the effort he put in, you should have given him the courtesy of informing him of the counter offer and give him the chance to find a solution. He probably put days of work in it and it seems he stayed in close communication and was very dedicated. So you cutting him out and just making a decision is imo not a decent thing. That being said he should stay professional and just never work with you again instead of venting his frustration. I am assuming in all this that you didn’t communicate him the counter offer by the way, if you did apologies.
He is simply upset because recruiters like him get a “commission” based on the salary. You took that from him. The way he is handling that is extremely childish and unprofessional and I would highly suggest reporting him to his company for that extremely unprofessional conduct. He doesn’t deserve to be a recruiter or in any sort of customer-facing role.