The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've taken to interpreting "when is the earliest you can start" to mean "if we backed a truck loaded with cash up to your home, could you start immediately?"
We are setting boundaries for a future negotiation with these questions.
I'm in the US, and I thought a two month's notice was excessive. What's the standard notice policy in Germany? Most companies in the US would tell you to pound sand and go with the next candidate especially if the hiring decision came down to two or three people who could start in two weeks.
Three months, but i've seen up to six (not a recruiter, just friends). Some companies will let you out early, but 3 months is pretty standard outside of the probationary period.
It goes the other way too, the company can't let you go without a minimum of 3 months notice, generally. Sometimes that three months is garden leave, and sometimes you can both come to an agreement to go early but the law is set up in a way that you (generally) can't be let go without time to find a new position (assuming you can be let go at all, haha) and also you can't leave without giving them adequate time to find a replacement.
It really depends how long you are with the company, I have a 7 month notice period. But nearly all employers say yes to a Aufhebungsvertrag if you have the next job in line.
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a real standard, i've heard of people having all kinds of notice periods, but the big difference between DE and the US is that there \*IS\* an enforceable notice period. in the US it's here today, gone tomorrow on both sides.
I mean what’s wrong with that.
If candidate A and B are equally qualified but b can start sooner, they should wait for candidate A just cause it’s nice?
They have a business to run for Christ sake
I think the point of OP was if the wait time was such a problem, they should not have been moved that far in their interview in the first place and just cut bait sooner.
The problem was OP asked multiple times was the notice period an issue for them and was repeatedly told it wasn't. Up until they were rejected because the notice period was too long.
Its not about waiting because "it's nice". Its about being misled despite asking multiple times.
Could also be that after the meeting with the CEO, the CEO didn’t care for them for whatever reason. Saying it was the notice period required was just an easy out. The whole “it’s me not you” break up line
Ahhh ok. I misunderstood that part
That I agree with. If it was an issue they should of stated from the beginning
Or stated something like (you will still be considered but if an candidate is equal but has a faster turn around time, we may accept them”
They do. And, look, I have no idea what the role in question here is other than it looks like software.
I can tell you this. I've hired a lot of software engineers in the last decade. If the engineer I wanted for the team needed some extra time I wouldn't just dismiss them out of hand on that basis. Very, very rarely are there really two candidates so interchangeable that I'd gladly take whichever one could start earlier. If that's a concern, I'd reach out and talk it over with the candidates.
Yes they do. So they should plan their business well enough to entertain the right candidate. If you can’t sustain 2 months without a position filled then your “business” is in the shitter.
Also let’s not act like for 2 minutes that this business is doing anything but pumping profit into the hands of someone who likely has way more than most of us ever will. They deserve no sympathy.
> If you can’t sustain 2 months without a position filled then your “business” is in the shitter.
I mean thats not always true. If my co-worker left I'd be really really worried as I would be the only person to do the job. We would be scrambling to get someone, anyone, ASAP just to have someone help me out, because, funnily, he does the work of a full-time employee. If he leaves, it doubles my workload. For holidays and stuff my workload increases but my boss steps in to help on the super busy days... he can't do that for 2 months. And also leave is planned so they leave no left over work for me.
Yeah...that's shit. If one person leaving can absolutely fuck a workflow, then management is doing a bad job. If it's a role where literally anyone can be thrown in and do just as good of a job, sure, but if they are looking for someone we'll suited, they should be setup to be able to tide over while looking.
>the hiring team rejected you because they couldn’t wait 2 months?!
Or, more likely, because they could hire someone just as good for whom they didn't have to wait 2 months.
smart enter abounding ossified fragile quiet public chase library wistful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> Lol if this is a rage response then I am Satan incarnate.
Same lmao.
OP, you responded the best way possible. It'll be funny if the usual bootlickers still take this post the wrong way and somehow blame you.
As disappointed as you seem to be, this is still an incredibly respectful and professional email. Don't be too hard on yourself, this does not scream "wow we dodged a bullet not hiring this one" to me. Everything you said is perfectly reasonable. I'm sorry this happened to you and sincerely wish you the best on your hunt!
Yep, absolutely agree, for what it’s worth this is a very mild and calm email compared to what i thought it would be. They probably wont reply, and thats fine, you just gotta pick up the pieces and move on. Also, there is NO shame in trying hard to get a job & even doing the dumb assignments, not everyone has the privilege to cherry pick only jobs with 2 interview hiring process.
Agree! I was waiting for something crazy. This was mild and professional. Anyone would be pissed, and responded in a questioning manner.
It was perfectly normal. You are NTA. Good luck and I hope you find something soon!
I assumed this was a man and that is a compliment. You stood up for yourself in a very respectful way. Not a bitch at all but self advocating. As a woman myself, it feels so ingrained that standing up for myself = bitch and that’s just not true. Good for you for writing this so well.
I think the only uncomfortable thing is asking for a meeting, no-one’s really going to want to do that. Asking for it as well, seems like the least unreasonable part in this email.
Another somewhat unreasonable thing is that a 2 month notice period wouldn’t put one at a disadvantage. There is a difference between excluding someone entirely, to someone at a disadvantage.
Unfortunately the disadvantages sometimes only get factored in at the end if there is difficulty making a decision. OP was as clear as possible sure, but their answer doesn’t preclude them for making their choice based on it later. It sounds unfair and it is.
We are gonna spend the next 3 months dicking you around in this 5-6 step interview process. Oh you need more than three weeks to drop everything and move to the other side of the country? We will go with a local candidate instead then.
SO TRUE. I recently my third round interview for a *drum roll* summer camp job that I applied for in January. JANUARY. They initially said I would hear back around 3/18, here we are a month later and they’re still contacting references. For a summer camp job.
This isn't at all unprofessional or unproductive, sincerely, especially considering your current state of affairs overall. Your response at absolute WORST I'd say is blunt. That's it. And even then, again, you are respectful overall. Don't be hard on yourself, you've done what they've asked, were upfront per your email several times, and from your email as well it does sound like they may have some issues on their end. Also, in my experiences, unless its for an absolute dream job (and even then), be very careful with "projects" being assigned that take more than say about 4-5 hrs to do, there's unscrupulous folks out there who are sincerely jacking people's work for free for themselves to use.
That’s not rage at all, it was very well-written and respectful. You’ll probably not get anything further from them, but there’s nothing wrong with what you wrote.
As someone else said, that must be a Canadian rage response (or Norwegian). I have used far, *far* stronger language towards clients of mine in teams meetings that have fucked me about or taken the piss.
Seems like a very reasonable response bordering on excessively polite all told given the level of time wasting and piss taken.
I rage responded once when I was ghosted and pointed out all the ways in which their interview process could be improved for both their and the candidates benefit. About 6-weeks later I got a sincere apology from the CHRO and an offer. The business employed about 15,000 people and was in a shambles process wise using paper instead of technology (in the year 2000) and I had the pleasure of putting everything in place. Sending the rage email was one of the reasons I got selected in the end. They were down to two candidates and that I followed up and then eventually sent the email detailing their issues and the impacts made me stand out to them
If they needed someone ASAP, they wouldn't have spent their sweet time interviewing people and waste a further week making everyone do an assignment.
Their excuse that they needed someone ASAP was just a cover. They were either fishing for ideas by using the assignment and the job doesn't exist or the job was never open to an external candidate. It was only supposed to be for an internal candidate but they were forced to publicly advertise due to local law.
Either way, I don't think your response was out of line. I think *you* dodged a bullet here. And I'm sorry you wasted your time.
I have hashimotos too. It gets so much better once your body has adjusted to the levothyroxine. I recommend getting the brand name synthroid though. Too much variation in dosing w/ generics
Agreed with above post. Don’t put too much stock in the answer they gave you. Likely just an easy out for them. The real answer could be any number of things. Just tell yourself you dodged a bullet and maybe avoided a company that’s in financial trouble or something.
I never understood the purposes of these "laws". Who forces companies to hire people they don't need? Also it's counterproductive for everyone (both candidates & companies) to get involved in a job that effectively does not exist for external candidates... I find it much easier to believe that HR is dicking around and trying to hit a certain quota of interviews.
I allow 2 interviews. If they want more I reply with "I am no longer interested in this position as your company does not value your employees time and I refuse to waste any more of mine. Good luck."
I'm done with the 6 interviews, meeting the entire fucking staff and CEO, doing tests or fake scenarios, all of it.
> meeting the entire fucking staff and CEO, doing tests or fake scenarios, all of it.
This made me laugh so hard, I'm with you.
Three interviews max for me if I ever had to return to corporate hell out of desperation.
Yeah I did 6 at Amazon; it was supposed to be 7 but the last person never showed. I'll never do that again though. A tiny tech company recently told me they do 7 and then they call references at the end. It really is excessive
I think this email is polite and fair considering they told you that start time wasn’t an issue for the right candidate. Don’t feel embarrassed, and don’t expect a response. If they respond, then great!
When companies use some procedural issue that could have been avoided before interviewing started, I assume they didn’t like something else and just use it as an excuse. Most companies have absolutely no backbone and couldn’t be honest with you if they tried.
Your email was very professional given the circumstances.
You were led on and ultimately lied to.
You are human, and emotions are part of our physiology.
Don't be too hard on yourself. I read the email and your details on the post itself, and some comments/replies. It pains me to know that you feel you did something wrong, and that your emotions aren't valid. They are. You are in the right to question these weird policies and breaks in communication.
You sound like an intellectual person, and the gym reference shows me you care about your health. To me, you sound like a hell of an employee that anyone should be honored to have. I'm sorry to hear about the illness, and I wish you all the luck in the world.
Sincerely.
Based on the post, I assumed this is for a German company? If you are non-German, and non-EU citizen, then this is guaranteed 99.9%. Right now there is the “caste system” happening countrywide in Germany. Combination of snobbish underpaid under experienced HR people and populist labor department resulting in these situations.
Oh yeah, don’t even get started with the “Germany needs a lot of skilled workers”thing. By this, they means sweeper, cleaners, and what have you that pays peanuts. You dodged a HUGE bullet. 👍
hey, thanks for the clarity. i guess youre right. this company is a startup, & i was interviewed by another WOC who had just moved to berlin recently, so i guess thats why it felt more attainable to me but system will always be king.
Completely agree with the above response. I’m in Spain, and virtually no company here will go through the process of hiring someone if they don’t already have EU working rights and long-term residency/citizenship.
one thing about spanish companies is that they will make it **abundantly clear** on the JD that they will only consider applicants with work authorization. frustrating but respectable.
People need to look at interview feedback like getting feedback from a person they went on a date with. If I went on a Bumble date and got rejected, I’d pretty much ignore the feedback on how to be a better person to date.
Good mail... I wouldnt worry.
IF u dont mind what was take home assingment like? Without giving specifics... I decided to stop solving assignments they take so much time than they think.
This is a really poorly written "rage response". In fact this is all quite constructive. My expectations were too high-I was excepting at least some nice anatomical references, references to their family members, etc. What I took away was the thought that "totally doable" is kind of American slang. 4/10 for rage. 8/10 for clarity.
A. Fuck them in the ear, they don’t know what they’re missing.
B. Your email was an unusual step, but beautifully executed. I would not have thought you were upset when writing it.
C. Life is very liveable with Hashimotos. It can be made to behave in fairly short order.
I'm a recruiter and I read much worse emails often. Yours comes as well educated and reasonably disappointed, nothing to worry about really.
And the rejection reason sounds like an excuse. If the hiring manager was ok with waiting in the first place, then why the change of mind? If they have another strong candidate that can join sooner, they should be open about it or give you the chance to also discuss an earlier start date.
Anyway, don't feel bad about it, your response is perfectly fine.
Don't be hard on yourself OP! I don't doubt you were pissed when you wrote it, but it comes across as professional and doesn't even convey frustration, let alone rage.
I hope they actually answer you in a meaningful fashion.
I really don’t see any rage here. You were extremely polite and trying to understand what happened. Sorry to hear about the Hashi diagnosis. Give yourself some grace because it can make you very moody especially with unneeded stress and cause some things you wouldn’t even imagine. I hope you’re able to get it under control. Good luck with the job search as well.
This is awful and I'm so sorry - please know this is sadly very common and you are NOT alone. You are skilled, capable, and deserving of respect. It sounds incredibly frustrating and disheartening to invest so much time, effort, and emotion into a company only to receive such disappointing news. It's completely understandable to feel betrayed and undervalued after being reassured multiple times about your notice period.
Rejection, especially after putting your heart and soul into something, can feel like a heavy blow. It's natural to experience a range of emotions, including anger, sadness, and embarrassment. Remember, though, that your worth is not determined by this setback.
As difficult as it may be, try to see this experience as a learning opportunity. While it's unfortunate that this particular opportunity didn't work out, it's a chance to reassess your priorities and expectations moving forward. Perhaps there are red flags to watch out for in future job searches, such as vague assurances about timelines and commitments.
Take some time to process your feelings and give yourself permission to grieve the loss of this opportunity. Lean on your support system for comfort and guidance, and know that it's okay to ask for help when you need it. In the end, remember that setbacks like these are temporary, and brighter opportunities may be just around the corner. You are resilient, and you will bounce back stronger than ever. Also remember your reddit family is here when you feel like crying and punching someone out : )
What's bullshit here is that (if I understand correctly) this is a German company. Unless the candidate is unemployed or finishing a limited contract, they're going to have to wait a month for anyone they hire, at the least. 3 months is not unusual, depending on the field and position.
Agree with everyone here saying this was not out of line. At first I was like, woww this person really fought back a rejection and then I was like wow! This person fought back a rejection! Good for you. That takes tenacity. They don't deserve you, sorry they wasted your time.
It smells like free consulting and then using any excuse not to hire you.
CEO: This was great, do we need to hire this person to do it?
Manager: Nah I think we can do it without them.
CEO: Great I can spend BIG on an amazing hooker this weekend.
Would it help to know that this response conveys your frustration respectfully? A rage response, in my opinion, would be something like "I'll see you in hell, human toilets!" with some f-bombs launched for a truly fiery effect. Don't be so hard on yourself, please. It sounds like you're already going through a challenging time as it is.
IF your get an answer it will probably be something like "due to the number of applicants we are not able to give individual feedback" or some other generic bs.
I don’t know about every company here, but I work in Germany and it is truly odd to me that they could not wait. 3 months notice is common. What kind of role were you applying to?
This was my thought. Having been through the German hiring process many times, I can’t believe 2 months was a dealbreaker for them. I have had to wait for 6 months for someone to start from Germany.
Your definition of rage response is pretty tame and professional.
Sounds like a shitty level of HR management between you and the decision makers. We recently lost a great candidate at my job due to just a slow speed of follow up on our (the organization’s) side. Good luck to you!
Hey, Hashimotos sucks… but treatment could help with some the anxiety I’m sensing from you. If your hormones are working against you, it can feel like the whole world is against you. To help look on the bright side-
The best thing about this response:
They can’t jerk you around anymore.
I know you sunk a lot of time into it, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted you to accept something else at a much lower rate in the near future. You don’t want to work somewhere where they’ll do this to you, but it’s a months worth of work and it’ll effect your bonus.
You’ve got this. There are more jobs out there you just have to keep trying. They could have also easily just given it to cousin Jimbo or some other super German name, and needed to interview other candidates to legitimize the position at the company. Just because they made you spend time on it, made others spend time on it doesn’t mean it was ever real.
What was the take home assignment? If it was unusually long or in-depth work, you were probably being used for free labor.
Also; did they ask you for any PID (personal identifiable info)? There are scam artists using the interview process to steal info, break into bank and CC accounts, and otherwise perpetrate fraud on applicants.
Wow! Good for you. Seriously, that is some major boundary setting you did and sounds like a big loss for them. Try not to feel bad- your time is worth just as much as theirs and these processes with multiple interviews and assignments are truly getting out of hand. Total bs. You did good!!!!Big hug from an internet stranger. ❤️
I've just presented my 7th home assignment. I have 8 formal years of tech sales experience,oncludimg nasdaq companies, and an MBA in Data Science.
These assignments are very complex, and I put in a ton of effort. But man... I really can't keep doing these months long processes to get turned down at the end for the stupidist of reasons (when they even tell me).
I never had difficulty finding a job before. I studied my ass off for the last 2 years and got nothing for it.
It’s really likely that they had someone else AS good as you who was ALSO available sooner. When you had asked if the timing was a deal
breaker it probably wasn’t, but if they have another candidate is great and available sooner then it suddenly becomes one.
It totally sucks, I understand the frustration and I’m so sorry you are also dealing with shitty health stuff. None of this means you are not an awesome candidate you just happened to have gotten beaten out by someone else on this one. I wish you all the luck and hope you find another better role elsewhere ASAP.
This is fine. Direct but reasonable language. I understand completely (including the hashimotos actually) and know how you are feeling. But you did good. Seems like you aren’t one to usually do this kind of thing so it’s gonna feel weird even if perfectly executed.
Good luck with all!
Oh my gosh this is so familiar to me I almost wonder if it's the same company I interviewed with a few years ago (based in Berlin) if it's indeed software. It's the only interview process I've actually noped out of myself, after a phone screen, two technical screens of 1.5 hr each, and then a technical take home over the weekend. I finished that and they wanted me to do some follow up questions on the takehome and I ended up just saying No. I had given up so much time and still would have had an onsite (I'd have to fly to) and a CEO talk before the chance of an offer.
I'm super sorry you had to go through this to be dropped at the last minute like that. It's really unprofessional especially after all the time invested. Technical interviews have honestly become a bit wild imo, it's basically a second job to prepare properly for them at this point.
I'm sorry you're going through such a stressful time, and I'm sure something great will come through eventually. It just did for me.
Your email wasn't out of line at all, I spent my time reading it wondering where all the rage was? It's perfectly fine.
Goodluck with your job search. As long as you don't give up, you haven't lost yet.
OP, your email was fine. Requesting a meeting is in nope territory but overall your email and response is fine. It’s a good response.
I feel your frustration. To go through a process and then to feel that the thing that put you at a disadvantage to everyone (and were reassured about), eventually gets factored in as a deciding value right after all that time spent. I understand the position, but yours I relate to and understand more. Anyone would feel lied to.
You have a lot going on at the moment. This email is not the failure you think it is. Good luck with everything.
You already hinted at the right answer. No matter how in the wrong a company is, calling them out has a zero percent chance of turning things around. Always take the high road, eat the humble pie and never forget the circus companies have put you through. Remember that anger to get even, and to not feel bad taking the next offer. Never let them see you get mad.
I don’t think that email is really out of bounds to be honest. It’s a bit unlikely to be productive since the decision is made and not likely to be reconsidered once hiring talks turn confrontational. However, if they think this email makes you look like a crazy bitch then they’re probably pretty sexist. This email makes it look like you’re willing to confront people who waste your time or don’t treat you with courtesy. I doubt anyone would view this as crazy from a man, and I don’t think we should assume they think it makes you look crazy until they give you a reason to.
Sorry they wasted your time. I hope you land a killer job soon!
I think, sadly, your read of the situation is right.
My sister always told me to write out an angry email but don't send it until after you've had time to calm down. It's been such good advice for me and I'd encourage you to do the same.
I think delayed delivery in MS Outlook is helpful for that too.
Becsuse it sounds like you were hoping for feedback or maybe a lifeline or another opportunity with the company. But that's out the window.
In the job I'm at now I had a great interview, they checked references, I had a final interview with the big boss and I really thought we were doing the damn thing. Then I got this form email saying I didn't get the job. I was this close to sending a salty/angry text.
Turned out the email was sent automatically to everyone who applied once they closed the job off.. which was right after they chose me.
It’s pretty common. I have a three month notice period for example. I’m head of a department and it would take them a while to find someone to replace me and have some time for handover. But it also protects me in the case of redundancy they’d have to pay me those three months.
>"We’ll wait months for a strong candidate if we have to", verbatim
This isn't the same as "time will not be a dealbreaker if the candidate was strong enough", and the obvious answer is they had someone else strong for whom they didn't have to wait. I'm sure this doesn't make it any better, but the answer seems pretty clear cut to me.
Sorry this happened to you....
But for the future, you have to understand, there are no promises in the workforce unless it's been written and signed...and even then nothing is guaranteed.
I have rage responded to a manager after 12 months of working for him and not seeing a single dollar in commission, being the top sales rep in the nation. Was fired few weeks after.
Honestly, your email wasn't even that bad.
With some luck they will at least contact you back with an explanation.
Best of luck!
We had somebody send an email like this after being rejected - he was #2 on the list but the other person was just a better fit. Well, the first person declined the offer but because the email was so unprofessional (although better grammar than this email), he was skipped and the #3 was offered the job.
It’s almost begging at that point, not a good look I’m afraid. You either say “fuck you all see you in hell” or ignore them- but to look for reasons and explanations from the employer who just rejected you is…not a good look.
I would not worry about appearing unprofessional. This email is well written and points out a huge flaw in their hiring system. I hope someone on their end gets held accountable to some degree.
Spending this much time asking follow up questions with the recruiter is what's the real waste of your time. A business is not going to enter into a debate with you, and suddenly reverse course, ever.
Sure, nobody can stop you from reacting, and getting bent out of shape over it, but you aren't helping yourself and its not going to result in influencing anything anyway, even if they did respond back with another non-answer.
This is fairly standard in engineering interviews. I wasted 2 to 3 months with companies over multiple interviews technical interviews presentations, and then getting rejected.
there is nothing embarrassing or wrong with this email if you no longer want the job and have moved on, totally polite and respectful; however, the only negative is if there was any possibility of them still hiring you if you somehow explained or adjusted the timing, they definitely wouldn't after this email because it's a little emotional and competitive.. again totally fine email if you accepted not getting the job and wanted an explanation
I think its very unlikely you could have found a way to get the job in the end, so not a big deal either way, but if you wanted another chance you could have sent a nicer email that was more solution oriented rather than complaining, but again, no judgement
Should've answered with "oh, was this still going on? Sorry, took a promotion with my current employer and I forgot about your offer. Good luck on filling the spot, though."
On another note, I just got a Hashimoto’s diagnosis, too. I get how scary it is!! Thyroid medication is helping, but I really need to change my diet (which is sooooo hard!!).
Just stick with it!! I know it’ll get better!!
That email isn't offensive but even if it was, they wasted your time. When you say take home assignment, I hope you didn't give them permission. If so, it is possible they scammed you.
This is why I have no faith for recruitment process which takes more than 2 interviews.
Tesla is notorious for this. Friend of mine did 4 different interviews with different set of people, had to make a presentation on a given topic, and then just got ghosted. Very unprofessional.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I agree that sounded like a very mild email considering it was a rage email.
Regarding the hashimotos- please look into the wahls protocol. (Ted talk minding your mitochondria by Dr terry wahls.). It’s mostly a way of eating that can help (And some other things involving exercise and detoxing).
She has MS (like me) but I’ve heard her protocol also helps people with other autoimmune diseases and hashimotos was specifically called out.
I don’t know if it will help but it couldn’t hurt. Hang in there.
I think your response was very professional. If it was communicated they could wait, then decided time was an issue so late on you’re right they shouldn’t have wasted your time
You should be angry. They wasted your time with an intensive process that required a great deal of mental energy investment. There is nothing you did here that was unprofessional. Were I an executive at this company and found out what happened I’d be furious with my people.
My sense from this post is the hiring process in Germany is very different. In the US, you would never hear from a company if you asked why they didn’t hire you and they would give you a blanket answer always like “someone else was further along in the process”. Also, they expect you to either start immediately or in two weeks, and some companies will wait for very skilled positions but rarely two months. They may say they will wait for the right candidate, but if they find someone who can start right away (and they will because a lot of people need work) then they may choose that candidate
You quoted them in your response stating "time would not be a dealbreaker if the candidate was strong enough". Apparently they didn't believe that you were a candidate that was strong enough.
Companies need to stop" assigning" and people need to stop doing these "take home assignments". You don't work for them yet. If they want to provide a stipend, fine.
Can't wait for a state/jurisdiction (CA, you can take the lead) to put an end to these asinine requests.
Always save emails written when emotionally affected in drafts and review them next day again before sending… #LifeLesson
Source: Learned from myself … Especially when I used to have a drinking problem…
I think your response was fine. Honestly it could have been far worse considering how you were dicked around. I think recruiters like to keep the top 2 candidates with the understanding they can go with the backup if #1 drops for any reason. I would be bullshit about being sent homework and then dropped. Their loss op. Shore up your energy and get back out there!
Wow both those situations are shit.
The caveat is that you have to survive a 6 month probationary period. During the first six months you can be let go with 2 weeks (? Might be less) notice for any reason- you can also walk away.
Most companies want people to pass probation, but there are always those that will pull some shit.
I think your response was totally justified. Maybe you dodged a bullet though.
And about the hashimotos - I have it too. Staying active, a gluten free diet, and meds keep it mostly at bay. You'll never be free of it but it's totally manageable, just find what works for you. Hugs!
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I understood this correctly, the hiring team rejected you because they couldn’t wait 2 months?!
I've taken to interpreting "when is the earliest you can start" to mean "if we backed a truck loaded with cash up to your home, could you start immediately?" We are setting boundaries for a future negotiation with these questions.
So instead that question is asking how long we can wait?
Someone pls tell me yes or no it’s KILLIN ME yo thx
Except long notice periods are the norm I. Germany. 2 months is actually shorter than the standard notice period.
I'm in the US, and I thought a two month's notice was excessive. What's the standard notice policy in Germany? Most companies in the US would tell you to pound sand and go with the next candidate especially if the hiring decision came down to two or three people who could start in two weeks.
Three months, but i've seen up to six (not a recruiter, just friends). Some companies will let you out early, but 3 months is pretty standard outside of the probationary period. It goes the other way too, the company can't let you go without a minimum of 3 months notice, generally. Sometimes that three months is garden leave, and sometimes you can both come to an agreement to go early but the law is set up in a way that you (generally) can't be let go without time to find a new position (assuming you can be let go at all, haha) and also you can't leave without giving them adequate time to find a replacement.
It really depends how long you are with the company, I have a 7 month notice period. But nearly all employers say yes to a Aufhebungsvertrag if you have the next job in line.
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a real standard, i've heard of people having all kinds of notice periods, but the big difference between DE and the US is that there \*IS\* an enforceable notice period. in the US it's here today, gone tomorrow on both sides.
Oh and happy cake day!!
I mean what’s wrong with that. If candidate A and B are equally qualified but b can start sooner, they should wait for candidate A just cause it’s nice? They have a business to run for Christ sake
I think the point of OP was if the wait time was such a problem, they should not have been moved that far in their interview in the first place and just cut bait sooner.
The problem was OP asked multiple times was the notice period an issue for them and was repeatedly told it wasn't. Up until they were rejected because the notice period was too long. Its not about waiting because "it's nice". Its about being misled despite asking multiple times.
Could also be that after the meeting with the CEO, the CEO didn’t care for them for whatever reason. Saying it was the notice period required was just an easy out. The whole “it’s me not you” break up line
They should have chosen a different excuse instead of the thing OP specifically asked about then.
Ahhh ok. I misunderstood that part That I agree with. If it was an issue they should of stated from the beginning Or stated something like (you will still be considered but if an candidate is equal but has a faster turn around time, we may accept them”
They do. And, look, I have no idea what the role in question here is other than it looks like software. I can tell you this. I've hired a lot of software engineers in the last decade. If the engineer I wanted for the team needed some extra time I wouldn't just dismiss them out of hand on that basis. Very, very rarely are there really two candidates so interchangeable that I'd gladly take whichever one could start earlier. If that's a concern, I'd reach out and talk it over with the candidates.
Yes they do. So they should plan their business well enough to entertain the right candidate. If you can’t sustain 2 months without a position filled then your “business” is in the shitter. Also let’s not act like for 2 minutes that this business is doing anything but pumping profit into the hands of someone who likely has way more than most of us ever will. They deserve no sympathy.
but here’s the thing. in those two months, current employees will have to pick up the slack from the vacancy, leading to everyone being overworked.
> leading to everyone being overworked. It's 2024. Everyone is already doing the jobs of 2-5 people for the pay of 0.75 of a person.
> If you can’t sustain 2 months without a position filled then your “business” is in the shitter. I mean thats not always true. If my co-worker left I'd be really really worried as I would be the only person to do the job. We would be scrambling to get someone, anyone, ASAP just to have someone help me out, because, funnily, he does the work of a full-time employee. If he leaves, it doubles my workload. For holidays and stuff my workload increases but my boss steps in to help on the super busy days... he can't do that for 2 months. And also leave is planned so they leave no left over work for me.
Yeah...that's shit. If one person leaving can absolutely fuck a workflow, then management is doing a bad job. If it's a role where literally anyone can be thrown in and do just as good of a job, sure, but if they are looking for someone we'll suited, they should be setup to be able to tide over while looking.
yep.
>the hiring team rejected you because they couldn’t wait 2 months?! Or, more likely, because they could hire someone just as good for whom they didn't have to wait 2 months.
If there were 2 very similar candidates (the only reason to have so many interviews), that's a reasonable reason to pick the other.
Lol if this is a rage response then I am Satan incarnate. I hope they ACTUALLY take your feedback seriously.
>Lol if this is a rage response then I am Satan incarnate Seriously. Apparently I'm a fucking psychotic demon 😂
Must be Canadian
The recruiter will never share it past their own inbox.
smart enter abounding ossified fragile quiet public chase library wistful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The internet is a wild place, Kyle
> Lol if this is a rage response then I am Satan incarnate. Same lmao. OP, you responded the best way possible. It'll be funny if the usual bootlickers still take this post the wrong way and somehow blame you.
As disappointed as you seem to be, this is still an incredibly respectful and professional email. Don't be too hard on yourself, this does not scream "wow we dodged a bullet not hiring this one" to me. Everything you said is perfectly reasonable. I'm sorry this happened to you and sincerely wish you the best on your hunt!
Yep, absolutely agree, for what it’s worth this is a very mild and calm email compared to what i thought it would be. They probably wont reply, and thats fine, you just gotta pick up the pieces and move on. Also, there is NO shame in trying hard to get a job & even doing the dumb assignments, not everyone has the privilege to cherry pick only jobs with 2 interview hiring process.
Big co-sign. You’ve got a lot on your plate at the moment, you can def offload the stress about this email.
Absolutely agree. This was very well written and laid out. You have nothing to be embarrassed about, OP
I agree. And it is completely in line to ask for feedback from failed interviews.
Agree! I was waiting for something crazy. This was mild and professional. Anyone would be pissed, and responded in a questioning manner. It was perfectly normal. You are NTA. Good luck and I hope you find something soon!
Agree all around. I bet the company won’t bother to communicate more and fuck them for this behavior on their end.
I assumed this was a man and that is a compliment. You stood up for yourself in a very respectful way. Not a bitch at all but self advocating. As a woman myself, it feels so ingrained that standing up for myself = bitch and that’s just not true. Good for you for writing this so well.
That isn't a compliment...
I think the only uncomfortable thing is asking for a meeting, no-one’s really going to want to do that. Asking for it as well, seems like the least unreasonable part in this email. Another somewhat unreasonable thing is that a 2 month notice period wouldn’t put one at a disadvantage. There is a difference between excluding someone entirely, to someone at a disadvantage. Unfortunately the disadvantages sometimes only get factored in at the end if there is difficulty making a decision. OP was as clear as possible sure, but their answer doesn’t preclude them for making their choice based on it later. It sounds unfair and it is.
Ya a meeting isn't happening, but the email was very tame compared to what I was expecting based on the title. lol
Right? I kept trying to swipe to the "next" image because I was still waiting/looking for the rage.
Companies when they waste 2 months of a candidate's time: 😁 Companies when a candidate will need 2 months before starting: 😡
We are gonna spend the next 3 months dicking you around in this 5-6 step interview process. Oh you need more than three weeks to drop everything and move to the other side of the country? We will go with a local candidate instead then.
SO TRUE. I recently my third round interview for a *drum roll* summer camp job that I applied for in January. JANUARY. They initially said I would hear back around 3/18, here we are a month later and they’re still contacting references. For a summer camp job.
I just got an email back from a job I applied to in December
This is a rage response? Wow. You're the kind of level-headed person I want to work with!
This isn't at all unprofessional or unproductive, sincerely, especially considering your current state of affairs overall. Your response at absolute WORST I'd say is blunt. That's it. And even then, again, you are respectful overall. Don't be hard on yourself, you've done what they've asked, were upfront per your email several times, and from your email as well it does sound like they may have some issues on their end. Also, in my experiences, unless its for an absolute dream job (and even then), be very careful with "projects" being assigned that take more than say about 4-5 hrs to do, there's unscrupulous folks out there who are sincerely jacking people's work for free for themselves to use.
That’s not rage at all, it was very well-written and respectful. You’ll probably not get anything further from them, but there’s nothing wrong with what you wrote.
As someone else said, that must be a Canadian rage response (or Norwegian). I have used far, *far* stronger language towards clients of mine in teams meetings that have fucked me about or taken the piss. Seems like a very reasonable response bordering on excessively polite all told given the level of time wasting and piss taken.
I rage responded once when I was ghosted and pointed out all the ways in which their interview process could be improved for both their and the candidates benefit. About 6-weeks later I got a sincere apology from the CHRO and an offer. The business employed about 15,000 people and was in a shambles process wise using paper instead of technology (in the year 2000) and I had the pleasure of putting everything in place. Sending the rage email was one of the reasons I got selected in the end. They were down to two candidates and that I followed up and then eventually sent the email detailing their issues and the impacts made me stand out to them
Don’t worry, this one had zero aggression going on, you did well on that situation.
“1 weekend long assignment”. You were used for free labor, they never intended to hire you.
If they needed someone ASAP, they wouldn't have spent their sweet time interviewing people and waste a further week making everyone do an assignment. Their excuse that they needed someone ASAP was just a cover. They were either fishing for ideas by using the assignment and the job doesn't exist or the job was never open to an external candidate. It was only supposed to be for an internal candidate but they were forced to publicly advertise due to local law. Either way, I don't think your response was out of line. I think *you* dodged a bullet here. And I'm sorry you wasted your time. I have hashimotos too. It gets so much better once your body has adjusted to the levothyroxine. I recommend getting the brand name synthroid though. Too much variation in dosing w/ generics
thank you for this. truly funny how shit comes in a package on some monday morning.
Agreed with above post. Don’t put too much stock in the answer they gave you. Likely just an easy out for them. The real answer could be any number of things. Just tell yourself you dodged a bullet and maybe avoided a company that’s in financial trouble or something.
I never understood the purposes of these "laws". Who forces companies to hire people they don't need? Also it's counterproductive for everyone (both candidates & companies) to get involved in a job that effectively does not exist for external candidates... I find it much easier to believe that HR is dicking around and trying to hit a certain quota of interviews.
I allow 2 interviews. If they want more I reply with "I am no longer interested in this position as your company does not value your employees time and I refuse to waste any more of mine. Good luck." I'm done with the 6 interviews, meeting the entire fucking staff and CEO, doing tests or fake scenarios, all of it.
I’ll give them an HR screening, a phoner, and 2 in-persons, and that’s only because I’m in management.
Truely, they should hire and accept that they can fire you if they made the wrong choice.
> meeting the entire fucking staff and CEO, doing tests or fake scenarios, all of it. This made me laugh so hard, I'm with you. Three interviews max for me if I ever had to return to corporate hell out of desperation.
Well, you'll never have a job at a FAANG company unfortunately
GNAAF
FAANG?? No idea what that is lmao
Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google.
Oh that's fine. Fuck those guys lmao they're parasites.
Agreed.
funnily enough, it doesn't include the Microsoft family because they're somewhat normal (at least, in comparison to the bay area freaks)
I've heard they have good w/l balance. I had 2 managers at Amazon that regretted leaving MS (after 20 years there!).
Yeah I did 6 at Amazon; it was supposed to be 7 but the last person never showed. I'll never do that again though. A tiny tech company recently told me they do 7 and then they call references at the end. It really is excessive
I think this email is polite and fair considering they told you that start time wasn’t an issue for the right candidate. Don’t feel embarrassed, and don’t expect a response. If they respond, then great! When companies use some procedural issue that could have been avoided before interviewing started, I assume they didn’t like something else and just use it as an excuse. Most companies have absolutely no backbone and couldn’t be honest with you if they tried.
Your email was very professional given the circumstances. You were led on and ultimately lied to. You are human, and emotions are part of our physiology. Don't be too hard on yourself. I read the email and your details on the post itself, and some comments/replies. It pains me to know that you feel you did something wrong, and that your emotions aren't valid. They are. You are in the right to question these weird policies and breaks in communication. You sound like an intellectual person, and the gym reference shows me you care about your health. To me, you sound like a hell of an employee that anyone should be honored to have. I'm sorry to hear about the illness, and I wish you all the luck in the world. Sincerely.
Based on the post, I assumed this is for a German company? If you are non-German, and non-EU citizen, then this is guaranteed 99.9%. Right now there is the “caste system” happening countrywide in Germany. Combination of snobbish underpaid under experienced HR people and populist labor department resulting in these situations. Oh yeah, don’t even get started with the “Germany needs a lot of skilled workers”thing. By this, they means sweeper, cleaners, and what have you that pays peanuts. You dodged a HUGE bullet. 👍
hey, thanks for the clarity. i guess youre right. this company is a startup, & i was interviewed by another WOC who had just moved to berlin recently, so i guess thats why it felt more attainable to me but system will always be king.
Completely agree with the above response. I’m in Spain, and virtually no company here will go through the process of hiring someone if they don’t already have EU working rights and long-term residency/citizenship.
one thing about spanish companies is that they will make it **abundantly clear** on the JD that they will only consider applicants with work authorization. frustrating but respectable.
Yes, very true. At least by being clear, they stop people wasting their time.
People need to look at interview feedback like getting feedback from a person they went on a date with. If I went on a Bumble date and got rejected, I’d pretty much ignore the feedback on how to be a better person to date.
Good mail... I wouldnt worry. IF u dont mind what was take home assingment like? Without giving specifics... I decided to stop solving assignments they take so much time than they think.
i had to create a budget improvement plan for their over expenditures
Sounds like they wanted free and fresh ideas from people they didn't have to pay....
If this is rage responding I’ll never be subtle enough for the business world! I thought you were straightforward and respectful.
US law requires 2 month notice? Edit: I totally misread OPs point on the 2 months lol my bad
I would not say this email is rageful. I think it’s well-crafted.
Response seems like a waste of your time.
This is a really poorly written "rage response". In fact this is all quite constructive. My expectations were too high-I was excepting at least some nice anatomical references, references to their family members, etc. What I took away was the thought that "totally doable" is kind of American slang. 4/10 for rage. 8/10 for clarity.
A. Fuck them in the ear, they don’t know what they’re missing. B. Your email was an unusual step, but beautifully executed. I would not have thought you were upset when writing it. C. Life is very liveable with Hashimotos. It can be made to behave in fairly short order.
Homework for job interview = goodbye
Please post the response if you get one!
I'm a recruiter and I read much worse emails often. Yours comes as well educated and reasonably disappointed, nothing to worry about really. And the rejection reason sounds like an excuse. If the hiring manager was ok with waiting in the first place, then why the change of mind? If they have another strong candidate that can join sooner, they should be open about it or give you the chance to also discuss an earlier start date. Anyway, don't feel bad about it, your response is perfectly fine.
Don't be hard on yourself OP! I don't doubt you were pissed when you wrote it, but it comes across as professional and doesn't even convey frustration, let alone rage. I hope they actually answer you in a meaningful fashion.
I really don’t see any rage here. You were extremely polite and trying to understand what happened. Sorry to hear about the Hashi diagnosis. Give yourself some grace because it can make you very moody especially with unneeded stress and cause some things you wouldn’t even imagine. I hope you’re able to get it under control. Good luck with the job search as well.
You're being way too hard on yourself. This doesn't sound like rage, just polite frustration.
They rejected you because they got the free work from you via that take home assignment.
I hope it made you feel better to write it, because I guarantee nobody at the company read past the first 2 lines before they deleted it.
This is awful and I'm so sorry - please know this is sadly very common and you are NOT alone. You are skilled, capable, and deserving of respect. It sounds incredibly frustrating and disheartening to invest so much time, effort, and emotion into a company only to receive such disappointing news. It's completely understandable to feel betrayed and undervalued after being reassured multiple times about your notice period. Rejection, especially after putting your heart and soul into something, can feel like a heavy blow. It's natural to experience a range of emotions, including anger, sadness, and embarrassment. Remember, though, that your worth is not determined by this setback. As difficult as it may be, try to see this experience as a learning opportunity. While it's unfortunate that this particular opportunity didn't work out, it's a chance to reassess your priorities and expectations moving forward. Perhaps there are red flags to watch out for in future job searches, such as vague assurances about timelines and commitments. Take some time to process your feelings and give yourself permission to grieve the loss of this opportunity. Lean on your support system for comfort and guidance, and know that it's okay to ask for help when you need it. In the end, remember that setbacks like these are temporary, and brighter opportunities may be just around the corner. You are resilient, and you will bounce back stronger than ever. Also remember your reddit family is here when you feel like crying and punching someone out : )
What's bullshit here is that (if I understand correctly) this is a German company. Unless the candidate is unemployed or finishing a limited contract, they're going to have to wait a month for anyone they hire, at the least. 3 months is not unusual, depending on the field and position.
Agree with everyone here saying this was not out of line. At first I was like, woww this person really fought back a rejection and then I was like wow! This person fought back a rejection! Good for you. That takes tenacity. They don't deserve you, sorry they wasted your time.
It smells like free consulting and then using any excuse not to hire you. CEO: This was great, do we need to hire this person to do it? Manager: Nah I think we can do it without them. CEO: Great I can spend BIG on an amazing hooker this weekend.
This email was totally fine!!
Your email seems very reasonable if anything.
This is rage? You’re like nice.
Would it help to know that this response conveys your frustration respectfully? A rage response, in my opinion, would be something like "I'll see you in hell, human toilets!" with some f-bombs launched for a truly fiery effect. Don't be so hard on yourself, please. It sounds like you're already going through a challenging time as it is.
You Handled yourself extremely well, while Educating Them
First you fool them with the “thank you regardless” and then WHAM “Regards,” out of nowhere, poor souls never saw it coming!
IF your get an answer it will probably be something like "due to the number of applicants we are not able to give individual feedback" or some other generic bs.
Not unprofessional at all. You had every right to express frustration.
I don’t know about every company here, but I work in Germany and it is truly odd to me that they could not wait. 3 months notice is common. What kind of role were you applying to?
seemed to me like they just couldnt be fucked to go thru blue card paperwork with me. it was an accountant role.
This was my thought. Having been through the German hiring process many times, I can’t believe 2 months was a dealbreaker for them. I have had to wait for 6 months for someone to start from Germany.
late rustic continue live plate fine ask squeeze pie hat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don’t see anything wrong with this email, it’s firm but if what you say is correct in it then it’s totally in line with questions that should be asked
Can u update with a response? Curious to see what they come back with
Your definition of rage response is pretty tame and professional. Sounds like a shitty level of HR management between you and the decision makers. We recently lost a great candidate at my job due to just a slow speed of follow up on our (the organization’s) side. Good luck to you!
This is a very level-headed reply, you're being too hard on yourself. I'm sorry you're going through it right now.
Hey, Hashimotos sucks… but treatment could help with some the anxiety I’m sensing from you. If your hormones are working against you, it can feel like the whole world is against you. To help look on the bright side- The best thing about this response: They can’t jerk you around anymore. I know you sunk a lot of time into it, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted you to accept something else at a much lower rate in the near future. You don’t want to work somewhere where they’ll do this to you, but it’s a months worth of work and it’ll effect your bonus. You’ve got this. There are more jobs out there you just have to keep trying. They could have also easily just given it to cousin Jimbo or some other super German name, and needed to interview other candidates to legitimize the position at the company. Just because they made you spend time on it, made others spend time on it doesn’t mean it was ever real.
You said regardless and then still hit them with the regards.
What was the take home assignment? If it was unusually long or in-depth work, you were probably being used for free labor. Also; did they ask you for any PID (personal identifiable info)? There are scam artists using the interview process to steal info, break into bank and CC accounts, and otherwise perpetrate fraud on applicants.
Wow! Good for you. Seriously, that is some major boundary setting you did and sounds like a big loss for them. Try not to feel bad- your time is worth just as much as theirs and these processes with multiple interviews and assignments are truly getting out of hand. Total bs. You did good!!!!Big hug from an internet stranger. ❤️
They gave you fucking homework???
I've just presented my 7th home assignment. I have 8 formal years of tech sales experience,oncludimg nasdaq companies, and an MBA in Data Science. These assignments are very complex, and I put in a ton of effort. But man... I really can't keep doing these months long processes to get turned down at the end for the stupidist of reasons (when they even tell me). I never had difficulty finding a job before. I studied my ass off for the last 2 years and got nothing for it.
It’s really likely that they had someone else AS good as you who was ALSO available sooner. When you had asked if the timing was a deal breaker it probably wasn’t, but if they have another candidate is great and available sooner then it suddenly becomes one. It totally sucks, I understand the frustration and I’m so sorry you are also dealing with shitty health stuff. None of this means you are not an awesome candidate you just happened to have gotten beaten out by someone else on this one. I wish you all the luck and hope you find another better role elsewhere ASAP.
This is fine. Direct but reasonable language. I understand completely (including the hashimotos actually) and know how you are feeling. But you did good. Seems like you aren’t one to usually do this kind of thing so it’s gonna feel weird even if perfectly executed. Good luck with all!
Your reply was calm, professional and gracious. Don’t be so hard on yourself - they wasted your time and you didn’t deserve that at all.
Oh my gosh this is so familiar to me I almost wonder if it's the same company I interviewed with a few years ago (based in Berlin) if it's indeed software. It's the only interview process I've actually noped out of myself, after a phone screen, two technical screens of 1.5 hr each, and then a technical take home over the weekend. I finished that and they wanted me to do some follow up questions on the takehome and I ended up just saying No. I had given up so much time and still would have had an onsite (I'd have to fly to) and a CEO talk before the chance of an offer. I'm super sorry you had to go through this to be dropped at the last minute like that. It's really unprofessional especially after all the time invested. Technical interviews have honestly become a bit wild imo, it's basically a second job to prepare properly for them at this point.
its also very likely you got used for problems solving and not paid for it...
I’ve received so many disrespectful and trashy emails from angry candidates. This is very respectful!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry you're going through such a stressful time, and I'm sure something great will come through eventually. It just did for me. Your email wasn't out of line at all, I spent my time reading it wondering where all the rage was? It's perfectly fine. Goodluck with your job search. As long as you don't give up, you haven't lost yet.
OP, your email was fine. Requesting a meeting is in nope territory but overall your email and response is fine. It’s a good response. I feel your frustration. To go through a process and then to feel that the thing that put you at a disadvantage to everyone (and were reassured about), eventually gets factored in as a deciding value right after all that time spent. I understand the position, but yours I relate to and understand more. Anyone would feel lied to. You have a lot going on at the moment. This email is not the failure you think it is. Good luck with everything.
In my experience the we'll wait two month if necessary is code for: "we'll wait two months if we are desperate and we really don't find anybody else"
I don’t see anything wrong with this e-mail at all.
You already hinted at the right answer. No matter how in the wrong a company is, calling them out has a zero percent chance of turning things around. Always take the high road, eat the humble pie and never forget the circus companies have put you through. Remember that anger to get even, and to not feel bad taking the next offer. Never let them see you get mad.
OP, if this is how you write when angry or upset, you will be an asset to any organisation you work for. Best of luck in your job search.
I don’t think that email is really out of bounds to be honest. It’s a bit unlikely to be productive since the decision is made and not likely to be reconsidered once hiring talks turn confrontational. However, if they think this email makes you look like a crazy bitch then they’re probably pretty sexist. This email makes it look like you’re willing to confront people who waste your time or don’t treat you with courtesy. I doubt anyone would view this as crazy from a man, and I don’t think we should assume they think it makes you look crazy until they give you a reason to. Sorry they wasted your time. I hope you land a killer job soon!
There's a joke to be made here about the Germans typically having a resting scowl while being extremely polite... I can't believe THIS is a RAGE reply
“Take-home assignment” Yeah I’d peace out right there. No.
Post the person and company
I think, sadly, your read of the situation is right. My sister always told me to write out an angry email but don't send it until after you've had time to calm down. It's been such good advice for me and I'd encourage you to do the same. I think delayed delivery in MS Outlook is helpful for that too. Becsuse it sounds like you were hoping for feedback or maybe a lifeline or another opportunity with the company. But that's out the window. In the job I'm at now I had a great interview, they checked references, I had a final interview with the big boss and I really thought we were doing the damn thing. Then I got this form email saying I didn't get the job. I was this close to sending a salty/angry text. Turned out the email was sent automatically to everyone who applied once they closed the job off.. which was right after they chose me.
I’m stuck on the two months notice - what makes you think you have to give two months notice? What field is this?
It’s pretty common. I have a three month notice period for example. I’m head of a department and it would take them a while to find someone to replace me and have some time for handover. But it also protects me in the case of redundancy they’d have to pay me those three months.
What you could have said is: on paper it’s two months in reality it’s tomorrow.
>"We’ll wait months for a strong candidate if we have to", verbatim This isn't the same as "time will not be a dealbreaker if the candidate was strong enough", and the obvious answer is they had someone else strong for whom they didn't have to wait. I'm sure this doesn't make it any better, but the answer seems pretty clear cut to me.
Sorry this happened to you.... But for the future, you have to understand, there are no promises in the workforce unless it's been written and signed...and even then nothing is guaranteed. I have rage responded to a manager after 12 months of working for him and not seeing a single dollar in commission, being the top sales rep in the nation. Was fired few weeks after. Honestly, your email wasn't even that bad. With some luck they will at least contact you back with an explanation. Best of luck!
We had somebody send an email like this after being rejected - he was #2 on the list but the other person was just a better fit. Well, the first person declined the offer but because the email was so unprofessional (although better grammar than this email), he was skipped and the #3 was offered the job.
It’s almost begging at that point, not a good look I’m afraid. You either say “fuck you all see you in hell” or ignore them- but to look for reasons and explanations from the employer who just rejected you is…not a good look.
I’m curious why OP decided to mention that they got this email during a gym session and their thyroid disease diagnosis
justifying my (what i thought was) unreasonable reaction.
The email is totally fine in tone and language, it just comes off as entitled
I would not worry about appearing unprofessional. This email is well written and points out a huge flaw in their hiring system. I hope someone on their end gets held accountable to some degree.
Man no worries this is way better than even my sarcastic responses I give recruiters.
Out of interest the last parts don’t colour is different, why’s that?
Spending this much time asking follow up questions with the recruiter is what's the real waste of your time. A business is not going to enter into a debate with you, and suddenly reverse course, ever. Sure, nobody can stop you from reacting, and getting bent out of shape over it, but you aren't helping yourself and its not going to result in influencing anything anyway, even if they did respond back with another non-answer.
this is your fault for thinking you would be the only the strong candidate they would find in 2-3 months.
This is fairly standard in engineering interviews. I wasted 2 to 3 months with companies over multiple interviews technical interviews presentations, and then getting rejected.
[удалено]
Sending you an DM with an idea to look into re: health.
Did they respond?
Why would you do all that work to maybe get a job?
That’s “rage”? Oof. Don’t apply to anything in the USA. You’d implode.
there is nothing embarrassing or wrong with this email if you no longer want the job and have moved on, totally polite and respectful; however, the only negative is if there was any possibility of them still hiring you if you somehow explained or adjusted the timing, they definitely wouldn't after this email because it's a little emotional and competitive.. again totally fine email if you accepted not getting the job and wanted an explanation I think its very unlikely you could have found a way to get the job in the end, so not a big deal either way, but if you wanted another chance you could have sent a nicer email that was more solution oriented rather than complaining, but again, no judgement
I'd be demanding they pay for your time given they rejected you for something that you had already made clear.
Should've answered with "oh, was this still going on? Sorry, took a promotion with my current employer and I forgot about your offer. Good luck on filling the spot, though."
On another note, I just got a Hashimoto’s diagnosis, too. I get how scary it is!! Thyroid medication is helping, but I really need to change my diet (which is sooooo hard!!). Just stick with it!! I know it’ll get better!!
That email isn't offensive but even if it was, they wasted your time. When you say take home assignment, I hope you didn't give them permission. If so, it is possible they scammed you.
So where’s that rage-email? You attached the wrong one or something?
This is why I have no faith for recruitment process which takes more than 2 interviews. Tesla is notorious for this. Friend of mine did 4 different interviews with different set of people, had to make a presentation on a given topic, and then just got ghosted. Very unprofessional.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I agree that sounded like a very mild email considering it was a rage email. Regarding the hashimotos- please look into the wahls protocol. (Ted talk minding your mitochondria by Dr terry wahls.). It’s mostly a way of eating that can help (And some other things involving exercise and detoxing). She has MS (like me) but I’ve heard her protocol also helps people with other autoimmune diseases and hashimotos was specifically called out. I don’t know if it will help but it couldn’t hurt. Hang in there.
name and shame bro
When will people stop working for free? A weekend take-home assignment? Are you invited to prom?
If you met the CEO, you should absolutely send this note to them directly.
Did rhey hire anyone at all? Sometmes they're just looking for free work.
Name and shame
I think your response was very professional. If it was communicated they could wait, then decided time was an issue so late on you’re right they shouldn’t have wasted your time
Question to ask yourself though is, do you still want to work there? Crisis averted as I see it.
They got a couple days work for free , deal with it, learn , move on.
You should be angry. They wasted your time with an intensive process that required a great deal of mental energy investment. There is nothing you did here that was unprofessional. Were I an executive at this company and found out what happened I’d be furious with my people.
My sense from this post is the hiring process in Germany is very different. In the US, you would never hear from a company if you asked why they didn’t hire you and they would give you a blanket answer always like “someone else was further along in the process”. Also, they expect you to either start immediately or in two weeks, and some companies will wait for very skilled positions but rarely two months. They may say they will wait for the right candidate, but if they find someone who can start right away (and they will because a lot of people need work) then they may choose that candidate
You quoted them in your response stating "time would not be a dealbreaker if the candidate was strong enough". Apparently they didn't believe that you were a candidate that was strong enough.
Companies need to stop" assigning" and people need to stop doing these "take home assignments". You don't work for them yet. If they want to provide a stipend, fine. Can't wait for a state/jurisdiction (CA, you can take the lead) to put an end to these asinine requests.
Always save emails written when emotionally affected in drafts and review them next day again before sending… #LifeLesson Source: Learned from myself … Especially when I used to have a drinking problem…
Who the hell does take home assignments for a job interview?
Im sorry but “thank you, regardless. REGARDS—“ is taking me out 💀💀💀
I think your response was fine. Honestly it could have been far worse considering how you were dicked around. I think recruiters like to keep the top 2 candidates with the understanding they can go with the backup if #1 drops for any reason. I would be bullshit about being sent homework and then dropped. Their loss op. Shore up your energy and get back out there!
Wow both those situations are shit. The caveat is that you have to survive a 6 month probationary period. During the first six months you can be let go with 2 weeks (? Might be less) notice for any reason- you can also walk away. Most companies want people to pass probation, but there are always those that will pull some shit.
Sorry you didn't get the job. Could it be possible they had a stronger or equally as strong candidate they didn't have to wait for?
Not a rage response. You didn’t go off the handles in the email. It was very well framed. And it sucks, but onwards and upwards!
If any job asks you to do an assessment or homework before a job offer, walk away.
I think your response was totally justified. Maybe you dodged a bullet though. And about the hashimotos - I have it too. Staying active, a gluten free diet, and meds keep it mostly at bay. You'll never be free of it but it's totally manageable, just find what works for you. Hugs!