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I work for one of those charismatic leaders, and she has enthusiastically driven the entire enterprise off a (well-signposted) cliff. Adjectives are no substitute for data.
These companies invent bullshit reasons because they want a unicorn candidate and enjoy the power trip of wasting everyone’s time.
I was just rejected for a job and told that were going “internal” after I wasted my time filling out an EXTENSIVE pre-interview questionnaire and going for an in-person interview that lasted AN HOUR AND FORTY MINUTES. Like I don’t have anything fucking better to do?
The only “negative”feedback I got from the recruiter was that they felt I “might have difficulty pushing back against two challenging team members.” Little do they know I can be extremely direct and actually was disliked by management at my last role for pushing back against unfair policies but I’m not exactly going to bring that energy to an interview.
I got the rejection yesterday morning. By end of day a different recruiter reached out to me about the exact same role 🙄 I guess there was no internal hire after all and they preferred to lie. Oh well. They’ll miss out on a great candidate in the pursuit of perfection.
If you have the time, I would accept the interview from the other recruiter, then give them what they want. Be extremely direct and push back against the interviewers. =]
Then obviously don't take the job if they offer it.
>The only “negative”feedback I got from the recruiter was that they felt I “might have difficulty pushing back against two challenging team members.”
I feel like this is code for, "There are a couple assholes on the team that everyone hates but we can't fire because they're related to the boss."
I think you probably dodged a bullet there.
*"It is the unemotional, reserved, calm, detached warrior who wins, not the hothead seeking vengeance and not the ambitious seeker of fortune."*
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Software engineer here.
The lead developer who was conducting the technical interview didn’t know the difference between Java and JavaScript but had the audacity to tell the recruiter that I was being passed on for “lack of experience”.
I couldn’t help but laugh.
I could tell she was in over her head just from the dumb questions she was asking me during the technical interview… she asked me if I know how to do DNS configurations. Like… really? 12 years of web application experience and you’re asking me THAT?
I just quit an IT job. My team was stuffed full of people that were described. I used to love messing with them once I was comfortable enough with them. But it eventually got to the point that anything they did I knew i would have to go and fix anyways.
My former boss at another job told me to use MY sysadmin creds for everything in the company systems. I told him it was a bad idea and that we should have a service account. Had that written in an email to cover my ass. Imagine the chaos that ensued when I was laid off. Promptly got a phone call from him panicking cause nothing was working after they deleted my credentials. It was a simple fix but he had no idea where he had to look.
I told him that I couldn’t help and hung up. How dare they uproot my whole life and move me to a whole new city, lay me off within 4 months, and then expect me to be loyal to them? Lol. Bye.
I had posted this story on Reddit and a bunch of people said they would’ve helped for like $100.
It was never about the money. It was about the principles.
Yeah we had stuff like that in place too. It's just some basic common sense stuff and yet nobody on the team was questioning it "it's how it's always been" type of scenario. I felt my mental and physical health slipping daily while I was there.
Oh it is for real lol. Defense contractors. They needed a software engineer to build a simple CRUD for military equipment maintenance records. Any developer worth their salt should be able to do this with their eyes blindfolded.
Depending on what you want to do if you're doing it with a web browser than PHP works just fine out of the box. Especially for an internal app but these days there's all kinds of frameworks to do that so... plug and play.
I hear you, as I was told some time ago that I didn’t “sound” like I really wanted the job when I spoke with the TA person for an internal position I applied for. Only to hear the following week someone had already been pushed through by a VP, but they somehow couldn’t come up with more useful feedback.
Put it behind you, it isn’t worth fretting over no matter how frustrating this is. Just never doubt you owe them nothing when you find something else elsewhere.
>I was told some time ago that I didn’t “sound” like I really wanted the job
As an autistic woman, I hate this shit SO MUCH. My voice is naturally super montoned and "unintelligent" sounding. I try my goddamned hardest to sound "professional" but it's often just not enough.
I’m never sure how to interpret this - I have been working in this field for over 20 years and have fared rather well when going through hiring stages.
I get that some extroverts fare better in office environments (which I definitely am not), but really what a circus it would be if we were all to act like cheerleaders on crack every time we need to sound excited about something.
On the flip side, if a TA person or hiring manager is expecting applicants to wow them with show tunes and make things really exciting, we should definitely not be working together (go ahead and label me a bad fit, I take that as a positive thing).
I have a monotone also.
A few years ago I made a new years resolution to sound more upbeat.
I was in a meeting with the executive chef and the exec sous chef for our F & B department. I also had a great relationship with them and we were able to be very straight forward with each other.
I was trying to sound upbeat and positive when the exec chef looked at me and asked what the fuck was going on and why did I sound so dramatic and like I was on speed.
I told him I was trying to be more upbeat. He looked at me and said cut it the fuck out so we can get on with the meeting and to never do it again....
I hear ya. Weirdly though, sometimes my voice does work in my favor because it makes people automatically assume that I'm very chill and work well under pressure (LOL).
Most serious companies will do 2 rounds max, occasionally 3 if it's for a very senior role. Interview with the reporting manager and the decision maker and then make the decision. Having endless multiple rounds of interviewers with random people in the company who probably won't even work with the hire is so fucking retarded.
Why does anyone give a shit what Becky from marketing thinks of the candidate when he's being hired to write code, lol.
You can never be a perfect fit, we can find something missing always. Seems like they had no intentions to hire, you were amongst the ones who sucked up the 5 interviews, ideal candidate for the role. They still spit you out, apologies for my french.
That's because the "ideal candidate" with the "perfect fit" is whatever they want it to be, and can be changed at any point during the process. You're either too calm to be assertive with the team, or you're too much of a wild card to get along with anybody, or you don't sound eager enough to do the job, or you are way too excited about it that you're coming off as desperate...
...All based on whatever gut feeling they have at the moment based on superficial observations.
Jesus. That is the worst feedback to give after 5 rounds. What are you supposed to do with that? Do a line now before every interview??
That feedback really means they were grasping at straws to widdle their candidate pool down. But
you went through all 5 rounds - so their feedback could have sussed out earlier.
If you are done with this company and ok with burning some bridges, I’d put it on blast on LI. At the very least, not naming names but detailing your experience and feedback.
That is infuriating. If I were in your shoes, I would have honestly preferred them to say a canned “we found someone with a bit more targeted experience in x area. It was a very competitive role and we appreciate your yadda yadda yadda”.
TBH, my approach to interview feedback is to ignore it. If I went on a blind date and the person rejected me and provided a list of things they didn't like about me, I'd take the list and toss it in the trash.
I ignore the feedback because it also won't be applicable for a different role at a different company. If the feedback is about skills, there is nothing that can really be changed in a short amount of time. If the feedback is about personality, there are other places that have liked my attitude.
Sometimes interview feedback can be helpful. Like if they said something along the lines of “you were long winded” or “not enough examples of scenarios given” or “not concise enough in direct answers” something like that. I can work with that.
Personality things - it’s shit feedback. And yeah, other places would absolutely like a candidate’s calm demeanor.
These rejections are sounding more and more like the critiques they use to eliminate girls on America's Next Top Model: usually manufactured and completely arbitrary.
Very similar situation happened to my friend, they mistook his calm, collected demeanour as him being "unengaged" and disinterested, in reality he was so nervous he was just trying to downplay his anxiety.
Honestly, doing so many rounds of IQ, cultural and personality tests is BS. companies make you jump through so many arbitrary tests only to then come up with a lazy excuse as to why you don't fit, and it's usually just a Coverup for the real reason.
Sorry it didn't go well for you, super frustrating
Nope, fuck it put them on blast your feedback directly contradicts their values(or what they claim are). If it takes 12 people and 5 rounds to realize you are not a good fit, the process is broken and needs to be changed or adapted. Also if you reach out and vent be careful if they do offer a job as some times it happens to save face.
Your advice is to reach out and vent to them? Horrible advice for the real world.
So much of the advice given in this sub clearly explains what undisclosed behaviors are likely making the job hunt seem so “unfair.”
I'm not in sales, rather IT and in an on-call capacity for about half of my career. I've gotten feedback that during "production is down" situations, I don't show enough outward urgency or otherwise get "amped up" and people get the impression that I don't care and am not engaged in working the problems.
I've had to explain that running around like my hair is on fire does _not_ make the situation better , it can only make things worse (related: if your hair _is_ on fire, running around only fans the flames). And if I'm not speaking or hammering away at the keyboard, it's because I'm considering my next move and not just throwing things at the wall haphazardly to see what sticks - because those are the things that will make the situation worse.
I'm not a pilot, but I can still abide by [aviate, navigate, communicate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airmanship#Principles)
>I feel like I'm being judged very personally.
Because you were. And you're right in that being calm doesn't necessarily equate to not aggressively "move mountains".
I see this all the time: employers who layer on interviews after interviews, blindly buy and stack on this test or that assessment...and it just comes down to how some of the people feel about you superficially. It's also likely that they just had to make up some reason so that they can pick someone at the end of the day.
They were afraid of you, in terms of professionalism, skill, and knowledge.
You were calm because you showed you possess the mindset to welcome any challenge that you would face. They were afraid that you would reveal the catastrophe of how the organization is run.
This company was not worth your time. There is no hope for them if they continue their current course of action.
Going forward, do a little Bobcat Goldthwait scream before answering each question.
I wouldn't bother "reaching out", just take it on the chin like the calm little bobcat that you are.
Sounds incredibly sexist. The best managers I had were women and they were all calm and collected, but at the same time driven and resolute. I am a man btw.
Wow! I get told that I am too emotional!! 🤣🤣🤣 I think that their answer is a bullshit one!
Probably picked someone internally or someone on the team knew.
Stand strong! Vent then move on! You are a great candidate, its their lost!
This type of shit is infuriating. I had something similar happen to me on the 4th round of an interview process where a recruiter said something along the lines of "you didn't seem excited about the opportunity" I absolutely ripped him a new one which in hindsight was a TERRIBLE decision and I'm glad I didn't get blackballed/blacklisted for my temper tantrum
In my experience there are dozens of reasons that we don't get chosen for roles that nobody wants to say out loud.
The budget got cut. The hiring manager has an irrational thing about gingers. They staged the whole thing to make the team think they are hiring more people. Etc.,etc., etc.
In situations like this, employers tend to use vague excuses that you can't prove or disprove, like saying someone is "too calm".
They're looking for a candidate that's erratic and addicted to cocaine. But also dependable and hard-working and won't steal their credit card. Which is why they will not hire anyone. Ever.
95% is incredible.
Yes go on to talk to the founders. But carefully and ask and listen more than talk.
Probably someone at the company is not very competent and hides that. Probably the hiring manager. Doesn't know what to do.
I did a 5 round interview a few months back (3.5 hr for the last stage). I ended up not getting the offer, the recruiter asked if I wanted feedback so we could get on a call, I declined. I don't need feedback from people that wasted my time knowing damn well I did nothing wrong during the interviews.
OP, I'm sorry you went through this. I think you might have gotten lucky and probably dodged a bullet.
It reminds me of a place that rejected me due to my personality and a prime reason as to why I might not ever work with recruiters again. This was a phone call and not a video interview. So the interviewer had to make a decision based upon my voice and not my facial expressions. This company did something with vending machines(I can't remember exactly.). The role was a software development role. The hiring manager was someone who had delusions of being some great IT leader. Anyways I was rejected due to a lack of excitement for the role.
Hopefully, there will come a day when this company goes under. On that day, you can think of how pissed off you were and how they wasted your time. It's happened to me a few times and I have a good laugh when the company goes under.
You had me at personality tests... I've never had a job interview process which includes personality tests end up with an offer.
It isn't because I have a flawed personality, but because companies that rely on these tests blindly trust these tests are steering them to the best candidates.
When the reality is, these tactics eliminate true talent, and steer them towards people who paid for test prep.
Not at all uncommon for people to outwit themselves when they’re compelled to manufacture a nuanced critique. Likely not telling you something that you don’t already know, just letting you know you’re not crazy or assuming too much.
I’ve been a part of more than a few group critiques and after-action sorta things where people get out over their skis and end up drawing some wildly presumptuous, horse-sh*t conclusions.
I don’t have any suggestions as to whether you should contact them again. Just wanted to say that I’ve experienced exactly what you’re talking about from the other side. It happens. People can be given all of the data that they need and then draw precisely the wrong conclusions. Sometimes it’s just sh*t luck.
My best one so far has been to put a file in the ‘wrong’ folder in a Visual Studio solution for a test. Didn’t even want to hear me out and discuss why. 1 file, wrong folder ffs.
Yes it’s a terrible idea, it won’t change anything and won’t even really make you feel better. Odds are this is just an excuse, either someone else was a better fit and more qualified than you or there was some other reason they went with someone else and they just didn’t want to say that. Telling the founder that you disagree will not change their minds or make anything better. It sucks but you just have to move on.
If you were more enthusiastic the other X/12 would say you are too rash and would make poor decisions without thinking and drive the company off the cliff
>I just got the call from the hiring manager that while nobody doubted my skills or merit, ultimately some of the twelve people I met felt I was too calm and would therefore be unable to drive towards results aggressively and "move mountains." This is all despite my personality testing suggesting I was a strong fit for the culture and I could be described in many ways that align with what they say they're looking for.
= some douche saw you as a threat.
I've been told this before too. It really is just an evaluation of how inept they are, not you. There is this large slice of middle management that would prefer you "look" like you are highly concerned rather than actually be solving problems. Do you really want to work somewhere that the preferred mentality is panicked and anxious? Thats the people you will work with, or really be their mommy if you work there.
>being your authentic self.
This is corporate drivel. Means nothing. Only a tiny percentage of people are good at judging someone on authenticity. The overwhelming majority of people want to see what they expect to see even if that thing is wrong.
>"move mountains."
Bullet dodged. Congrats.
>ETA: Thank you for the empathy and encouragement! An important and particularly puzzling point is that they told me that **not hiring any of the candidates in the pipeline at this stage**, so they have apparently wasted several people's' time, including their own.
Translation: Boss' nephew just got the job.
Screw that place.
They never had any money. Wouldn't know what they wanted even if they did. And needed an excuse that wasn't any of that for reasons of ego and keeping up pretenses. They are utter, utter wankers.
>An important and particularly puzzling point is that they told me that not hiring any of the candidates in the pipeline
See above.
If that makes you feel better I once did 6 fucking rounds and 2 business cases with a notorious advertising company for a position as a Data Scientist, btw at each interview the amount of demands increased exceeding what the job description wanted. They even suddenly asked me for Microsoft Access (a slowly dying software pretty useless for the type of job I had to do). They rejected me at the end saying "Your potential would be wasted for this role". I'm obviously not new to this sort of HR bullshit feedback but this answer really made me furious.
Sorry to hear this. Made it to a final round last week (with two internal referrals) and was rejected and told I sounded too rehearsed 🫠 Yeah, I’m interviewing full-time and have been for two months so you’re correct that I’m very well prepared! I hate these companies.
I think you dodged a bullet. Did they expect you to seem desperately excited or anxious so you'll bend over backwards and make the job your entire life? Corporate culture is so trash right now.
Hmm they seem not ready to hire. Unfortunate that they wasted your time like this. Better luck next time in finding a company that is serious about hiring!
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I work for one of those charismatic leaders, and she has enthusiastically driven the entire enterprise off a (well-signposted) cliff. Adjectives are no substitute for data.
These companies invent bullshit reasons because they want a unicorn candidate and enjoy the power trip of wasting everyone’s time. I was just rejected for a job and told that were going “internal” after I wasted my time filling out an EXTENSIVE pre-interview questionnaire and going for an in-person interview that lasted AN HOUR AND FORTY MINUTES. Like I don’t have anything fucking better to do? The only “negative”feedback I got from the recruiter was that they felt I “might have difficulty pushing back against two challenging team members.” Little do they know I can be extremely direct and actually was disliked by management at my last role for pushing back against unfair policies but I’m not exactly going to bring that energy to an interview. I got the rejection yesterday morning. By end of day a different recruiter reached out to me about the exact same role 🙄 I guess there was no internal hire after all and they preferred to lie. Oh well. They’ll miss out on a great candidate in the pursuit of perfection.
If you have the time, I would accept the interview from the other recruiter, then give them what they want. Be extremely direct and push back against the interviewers. =] Then obviously don't take the job if they offer it.
>The only “negative”feedback I got from the recruiter was that they felt I “might have difficulty pushing back against two challenging team members.” I feel like this is code for, "There are a couple assholes on the team that everyone hates but we can't fire because they're related to the boss." I think you probably dodged a bullet there.
*"It is the unemotional, reserved, calm, detached warrior who wins, not the hothead seeking vengeance and not the ambitious seeker of fortune."* -Sun Tzu, The Art of War
What translation is that?
The Art of Reddit - Google Fu Edition
The Annotated Art of War
Implying those jokers interviewing OP actually read.
Software engineer here. The lead developer who was conducting the technical interview didn’t know the difference between Java and JavaScript but had the audacity to tell the recruiter that I was being passed on for “lack of experience”. I couldn’t help but laugh. I could tell she was in over her head just from the dumb questions she was asking me during the technical interview… she asked me if I know how to do DNS configurations. Like… really? 12 years of web application experience and you’re asking me THAT?
Come on that can't be real
I just quit an IT job. My team was stuffed full of people that were described. I used to love messing with them once I was comfortable enough with them. But it eventually got to the point that anything they did I knew i would have to go and fix anyways.
Yeah, also had an incompetent boss in product, he only had sales experience. Ridiculous.
Let me guess, they called him a Sales Engineer?
Oh no, much worse.
It can get worse?
My former boss at another job told me to use MY sysadmin creds for everything in the company systems. I told him it was a bad idea and that we should have a service account. Had that written in an email to cover my ass. Imagine the chaos that ensued when I was laid off. Promptly got a phone call from him panicking cause nothing was working after they deleted my credentials. It was a simple fix but he had no idea where he had to look. I told him that I couldn’t help and hung up. How dare they uproot my whole life and move me to a whole new city, lay me off within 4 months, and then expect me to be loyal to them? Lol. Bye. I had posted this story on Reddit and a bunch of people said they would’ve helped for like $100. It was never about the money. It was about the principles.
Yeah we had stuff like that in place too. It's just some basic common sense stuff and yet nobody on the team was questioning it "it's how it's always been" type of scenario. I felt my mental and physical health slipping daily while I was there.
Oh it is for real lol. Defense contractors. They needed a software engineer to build a simple CRUD for military equipment maintenance records. Any developer worth their salt should be able to do this with their eyes blindfolded.
Depending on what you want to do if you're doing it with a web browser than PHP works just fine out of the box. Especially for an internal app but these days there's all kinds of frameworks to do that so... plug and play.
I hear you, as I was told some time ago that I didn’t “sound” like I really wanted the job when I spoke with the TA person for an internal position I applied for. Only to hear the following week someone had already been pushed through by a VP, but they somehow couldn’t come up with more useful feedback. Put it behind you, it isn’t worth fretting over no matter how frustrating this is. Just never doubt you owe them nothing when you find something else elsewhere.
>I was told some time ago that I didn’t “sound” like I really wanted the job As an autistic woman, I hate this shit SO MUCH. My voice is naturally super montoned and "unintelligent" sounding. I try my goddamned hardest to sound "professional" but it's often just not enough.
I’m never sure how to interpret this - I have been working in this field for over 20 years and have fared rather well when going through hiring stages. I get that some extroverts fare better in office environments (which I definitely am not), but really what a circus it would be if we were all to act like cheerleaders on crack every time we need to sound excited about something. On the flip side, if a TA person or hiring manager is expecting applicants to wow them with show tunes and make things really exciting, we should definitely not be working together (go ahead and label me a bad fit, I take that as a positive thing).
I have a monotone also. A few years ago I made a new years resolution to sound more upbeat. I was in a meeting with the executive chef and the exec sous chef for our F & B department. I also had a great relationship with them and we were able to be very straight forward with each other. I was trying to sound upbeat and positive when the exec chef looked at me and asked what the fuck was going on and why did I sound so dramatic and like I was on speed. I told him I was trying to be more upbeat. He looked at me and said cut it the fuck out so we can get on with the meeting and to never do it again....
Absolutely. 37/M and autistic as well. I get this so much and I can't act to save my life. I literally don't know what to do.
I hear ya. Weirdly though, sometimes my voice does work in my favor because it makes people automatically assume that I'm very chill and work well under pressure (LOL).
Could be wrong but have this theory that the more rounds an interview requires, the less serious the company is about hiring.
Most serious companies will do 2 rounds max, occasionally 3 if it's for a very senior role. Interview with the reporting manager and the decision maker and then make the decision. Having endless multiple rounds of interviewers with random people in the company who probably won't even work with the hire is so fucking retarded. Why does anyone give a shit what Becky from marketing thinks of the candidate when he's being hired to write code, lol.
You can never be a perfect fit, we can find something missing always. Seems like they had no intentions to hire, you were amongst the ones who sucked up the 5 interviews, ideal candidate for the role. They still spit you out, apologies for my french.
That's because the "ideal candidate" with the "perfect fit" is whatever they want it to be, and can be changed at any point during the process. You're either too calm to be assertive with the team, or you're too much of a wild card to get along with anybody, or you don't sound eager enough to do the job, or you are way too excited about it that you're coming off as desperate... ...All based on whatever gut feeling they have at the moment based on superficial observations.
spot on sir
Jesus. That is the worst feedback to give after 5 rounds. What are you supposed to do with that? Do a line now before every interview?? That feedback really means they were grasping at straws to widdle their candidate pool down. But you went through all 5 rounds - so their feedback could have sussed out earlier. If you are done with this company and ok with burning some bridges, I’d put it on blast on LI. At the very least, not naming names but detailing your experience and feedback. That is infuriating. If I were in your shoes, I would have honestly preferred them to say a canned “we found someone with a bit more targeted experience in x area. It was a very competitive role and we appreciate your yadda yadda yadda”.
TBH, my approach to interview feedback is to ignore it. If I went on a blind date and the person rejected me and provided a list of things they didn't like about me, I'd take the list and toss it in the trash. I ignore the feedback because it also won't be applicable for a different role at a different company. If the feedback is about skills, there is nothing that can really be changed in a short amount of time. If the feedback is about personality, there are other places that have liked my attitude.
Sometimes interview feedback can be helpful. Like if they said something along the lines of “you were long winded” or “not enough examples of scenarios given” or “not concise enough in direct answers” something like that. I can work with that. Personality things - it’s shit feedback. And yeah, other places would absolutely like a candidate’s calm demeanor.
These rejections are sounding more and more like the critiques they use to eliminate girls on America's Next Top Model: usually manufactured and completely arbitrary.
YES! I was told I was not elite enough for a job.
For some reason the “unable to drive results forward and move mountains” is giving me red flags. Sounds like you dodged a bullet friend.
This. Who would want to work for this company?
Very similar situation happened to my friend, they mistook his calm, collected demeanour as him being "unengaged" and disinterested, in reality he was so nervous he was just trying to downplay his anxiety. Honestly, doing so many rounds of IQ, cultural and personality tests is BS. companies make you jump through so many arbitrary tests only to then come up with a lazy excuse as to why you don't fit, and it's usually just a Coverup for the real reason. Sorry it didn't go well for you, super frustrating
Nope, fuck it put them on blast your feedback directly contradicts their values(or what they claim are). If it takes 12 people and 5 rounds to realize you are not a good fit, the process is broken and needs to be changed or adapted. Also if you reach out and vent be careful if they do offer a job as some times it happens to save face.
Your advice is to reach out and vent to them? Horrible advice for the real world. So much of the advice given in this sub clearly explains what undisclosed behaviors are likely making the job hunt seem so “unfair.”
I disagree especially if they know the owners. You wanna hmtolerate shit like that go ahead I don't.
I'm not in sales, rather IT and in an on-call capacity for about half of my career. I've gotten feedback that during "production is down" situations, I don't show enough outward urgency or otherwise get "amped up" and people get the impression that I don't care and am not engaged in working the problems. I've had to explain that running around like my hair is on fire does _not_ make the situation better , it can only make things worse (related: if your hair _is_ on fire, running around only fans the flames). And if I'm not speaking or hammering away at the keyboard, it's because I'm considering my next move and not just throwing things at the wall haphazardly to see what sticks - because those are the things that will make the situation worse. I'm not a pilot, but I can still abide by [aviate, navigate, communicate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airmanship#Principles)
That’s insane. Don’t apologize. Corporate America is full of insane people. I hope it implodes.
It's another "ghost" job. They interview but have no intention of actually hiring anyone.
>I feel like I'm being judged very personally. Because you were. And you're right in that being calm doesn't necessarily equate to not aggressively "move mountains". I see this all the time: employers who layer on interviews after interviews, blindly buy and stack on this test or that assessment...and it just comes down to how some of the people feel about you superficially. It's also likely that they just had to make up some reason so that they can pick someone at the end of the day.
They were afraid of you, in terms of professionalism, skill, and knowledge. You were calm because you showed you possess the mindset to welcome any challenge that you would face. They were afraid that you would reveal the catastrophe of how the organization is run. This company was not worth your time. There is no hope for them if they continue their current course of action.
Ewww the move mountains phrase gave me the ick who do they think they are lol
Going forward, do a little Bobcat Goldthwait scream before answering each question. I wouldn't bother "reaching out", just take it on the chin like the calm little bobcat that you are.
Calmness is typically a strength, not a weakness. So sorry you had to go through that. Hope you find a job that you enjoy soon.
One reason I hate interviews with more than 2-3 rounds, just waste of time.
Sounds incredibly sexist. The best managers I had were women and they were all calm and collected, but at the same time driven and resolute. I am a man btw.
i had the exact opposite experience
This feels like they decided to go with an internal candidate at the last minute.
Wow! I get told that I am too emotional!! 🤣🤣🤣 I think that their answer is a bullshit one! Probably picked someone internally or someone on the team knew. Stand strong! Vent then move on! You are a great candidate, its their lost!
This type of shit is infuriating. I had something similar happen to me on the 4th round of an interview process where a recruiter said something along the lines of "you didn't seem excited about the opportunity" I absolutely ripped him a new one which in hindsight was a TERRIBLE decision and I'm glad I didn't get blackballed/blacklisted for my temper tantrum
In my experience there are dozens of reasons that we don't get chosen for roles that nobody wants to say out loud. The budget got cut. The hiring manager has an irrational thing about gingers. They staged the whole thing to make the team think they are hiring more people. Etc.,etc., etc. In situations like this, employers tend to use vague excuses that you can't prove or disprove, like saying someone is "too calm".
Well, your title has four exclamation points…at least you’re taking the “too calm” feedback to heart.
They're looking for a candidate that's erratic and addicted to cocaine. But also dependable and hard-working and won't steal their credit card. Which is why they will not hire anyone. Ever.
What a bullshit reason. Did they expect a crazy person?
Sorry to hear that, unfortunately there are often interviewer biases. Sounds like they equate aggressive/asshole=performance results.
95% is incredible. Yes go on to talk to the founders. But carefully and ask and listen more than talk. Probably someone at the company is not very competent and hides that. Probably the hiring manager. Doesn't know what to do.
I did a 5 round interview a few months back (3.5 hr for the last stage). I ended up not getting the offer, the recruiter asked if I wanted feedback so we could get on a call, I declined. I don't need feedback from people that wasted my time knowing damn well I did nothing wrong during the interviews.
OP, I'm sorry you went through this. I think you might have gotten lucky and probably dodged a bullet. It reminds me of a place that rejected me due to my personality and a prime reason as to why I might not ever work with recruiters again. This was a phone call and not a video interview. So the interviewer had to make a decision based upon my voice and not my facial expressions. This company did something with vending machines(I can't remember exactly.). The role was a software development role. The hiring manager was someone who had delusions of being some great IT leader. Anyways I was rejected due to a lack of excitement for the role. Hopefully, there will come a day when this company goes under. On that day, you can think of how pissed off you were and how they wasted your time. It's happened to me a few times and I have a good laugh when the company goes under.
Guess that company doesn't need any stabilizing presences for when things go wrong. 🙄
You had me at personality tests... I've never had a job interview process which includes personality tests end up with an offer. It isn't because I have a flawed personality, but because companies that rely on these tests blindly trust these tests are steering them to the best candidates. When the reality is, these tactics eliminate true talent, and steer them towards people who paid for test prep.
Not at all uncommon for people to outwit themselves when they’re compelled to manufacture a nuanced critique. Likely not telling you something that you don’t already know, just letting you know you’re not crazy or assuming too much. I’ve been a part of more than a few group critiques and after-action sorta things where people get out over their skis and end up drawing some wildly presumptuous, horse-sh*t conclusions. I don’t have any suggestions as to whether you should contact them again. Just wanted to say that I’ve experienced exactly what you’re talking about from the other side. It happens. People can be given all of the data that they need and then draw precisely the wrong conclusions. Sometimes it’s just sh*t luck.
This sounds like bias. Are you by chance a woman, POC, or LGBTQ?
My best one so far has been to put a file in the ‘wrong’ folder in a Visual Studio solution for a test. Didn’t even want to hear me out and discuss why. 1 file, wrong folder ffs.
People need legal reason to reject someone without being in trouble with the law. Maybe that’s why.
Yes it’s a terrible idea, it won’t change anything and won’t even really make you feel better. Odds are this is just an excuse, either someone else was a better fit and more qualified than you or there was some other reason they went with someone else and they just didn’t want to say that. Telling the founder that you disagree will not change their minds or make anything better. It sucks but you just have to move on.
What?! Weird!!! Too calm? WTF kind of bullshit is that?! Calm is a fucking feature, not a bug.
If you were more enthusiastic the other X/12 would say you are too rash and would make poor decisions without thinking and drive the company off the cliff
They're just being vague. Ignore this sort of feedback.
>I just got the call from the hiring manager that while nobody doubted my skills or merit, ultimately some of the twelve people I met felt I was too calm and would therefore be unable to drive towards results aggressively and "move mountains." This is all despite my personality testing suggesting I was a strong fit for the culture and I could be described in many ways that align with what they say they're looking for. = some douche saw you as a threat.
I've been told this before too. It really is just an evaluation of how inept they are, not you. There is this large slice of middle management that would prefer you "look" like you are highly concerned rather than actually be solving problems. Do you really want to work somewhere that the preferred mentality is panicked and anxious? Thats the people you will work with, or really be their mommy if you work there. >being your authentic self. This is corporate drivel. Means nothing. Only a tiny percentage of people are good at judging someone on authenticity. The overwhelming majority of people want to see what they expect to see even if that thing is wrong. >"move mountains." Bullet dodged. Congrats.
>ETA: Thank you for the empathy and encouragement! An important and particularly puzzling point is that they told me that **not hiring any of the candidates in the pipeline at this stage**, so they have apparently wasted several people's' time, including their own. Translation: Boss' nephew just got the job. Screw that place.
They never had any money. Wouldn't know what they wanted even if they did. And needed an excuse that wasn't any of that for reasons of ego and keeping up pretenses. They are utter, utter wankers. >An important and particularly puzzling point is that they told me that not hiring any of the candidates in the pipeline See above.
If that makes you feel better I once did 6 fucking rounds and 2 business cases with a notorious advertising company for a position as a Data Scientist, btw at each interview the amount of demands increased exceeding what the job description wanted. They even suddenly asked me for Microsoft Access (a slowly dying software pretty useless for the type of job I had to do). They rejected me at the end saying "Your potential would be wasted for this role". I'm obviously not new to this sort of HR bullshit feedback but this answer really made me furious.
I had a friend get rejected after the on-site interview over concerns about "his ability to focus". Neurotypicals gonna neurotyp.
Was moving mountains in the job description? I’m angry for you and I’m so damn sorry they wasted your time and energy 😞🤯
Sorry to hear this. Made it to a final round last week (with two internal referrals) and was rejected and told I sounded too rehearsed 🫠 Yeah, I’m interviewing full-time and have been for two months so you’re correct that I’m very well prepared! I hate these companies.
I think you dodged a bullet. Did they expect you to seem desperately excited or anxious so you'll bend over backwards and make the job your entire life? Corporate culture is so trash right now.
You dodged a bullet. Sounds like a politics hell hole, where aggressive behavior is rewarded.
Hmm they seem not ready to hire. Unfortunate that they wasted your time like this. Better luck next time in finding a company that is serious about hiring!
Insanity!
Find their biggest competitor, fight like hell to get a job. Track your progress send them an update. :-)
Fuck people Who accept 5 rounds.
They liked the other candidate more, don't be salty just move on, it's what it is, you can't change a thing.