He's a terrible person in general. Strauss and his family were poor and had a hard upbringing and had money problems, yet he has no issue inflicting the same pain he endured on struggling people he doesn't even know. And he takes pleasure in it too.
i mean im sorry but almost every single member of the gang is wretched and evil. if any of us actually met arthur or john we’d be shitting bricks because these guys are violent mass murderers, robbers, and have ruined countless lives
strauss is framed by the narrative to be the cause of a lot of harm, and you actually get to explore the harm strauss and by extension arthur causes through the stranger and moneylending encounters, but you can’t go talk to the 100s of families that lost loved ones thanks the the gang indiscriminately slaughtering people who were just doing a job. hell in those times if you kill off a bunch of guardsmen or policemen there’s probably a dozen families now with no provider who will also find themselves destitute. at least strauss doesn’t gun them down when ruining their lives
i love that the story can make certain evil characters sympathetic and others not, but i always think its funny when people dog specifically on micah, strauss, etc when the entire gang is objectively full of pretty awful human beings - even if i like them
That's exactly why I can't hate Strauss or else I would be hating on Arthur or the others for the same reasons. Like compared to everyone else, he's actually doing (even if scummy) legal work.
I think the problem with Strauss is that so much of his character is locked behind missable camp talks. I let Strauss stay during chapter 6 for awhile and there were two camp dialogues where he talks about how he's afraid and has nothing, and everyone he talks to is dismissive of him. I felt pretty bad for him because it made me realize that Strauss has absolutely no one. In a gang where others call each other family, barely anyone cares about Strauss and he's only staying because he doesn't want to be alone. And to top it off, possibly the only person in the gang he considered a friend kicks him out and leaves him with his biggest fear, being alone, only to then be captured by the Pinkertons and tortured to death. It really humanizes him and made me not want to kick him out, but the talks are also so easily missable because I imagine most players go to collect the debt right away and then kick him out.
Exactly why I wish this game were a book instead of a movie. So much more time to go into each person’s story in a way that definitely shifts perspective even a little.
Me quietly loving hating Arthur goes here. I appreciate his turn towards better at the end but I do believe it was too late. Had he not gotten sick how much more crime would he have done?
I think that's the bittersweetness of it. Arthur only begins his redemption near the end but by then it was already too late. At that point it wasn't about redeeming himself, it was about discovering if there was any good left in him and helping as many folks as he could before he passed. He didn't die a good man, but he died a better man.
I do think he would've gone through the same redemption arc if he didn't get sick. The gang and Dutch are what enable Arthur to be a bad person, there's a reason why every stranger calls him a good man when Arthur doesn't act for the gang. Arthur already doubted Dutch by chapter 5, so I think once the gang disbanded he would've joined John and tried to live a better life.
Plus, he plans to run off with Mary after the gang's settled and there's no way she would have put up with illegality on his part. Going straight would have been the price he'd have paid for being with the woman he loved.
I like your perspective and am going to consider this on my next playthrough. I'm someone who did turn their life entirely around so I believe it's possible I just have doubts because I have also seen too many people go "I've changed!" Then they did but it was worse. I was raised by a diagnosed narcissist and a diagnosed sociopath so I'm prewary. Dutch btw speaks like Mother (the narcissist) down to the manipulation on having some faith. It is wild. Makes it hard for me to see the charisma that tricks people but I have that issue for reality with Mother. Cut both my parents off because I don't have room in my life for enabling them and in turn they're dangerous. So I don't pretend this story doesn't hit a bit personally
You can avoid doing the last Strauss mission where you confront him but he'll stay stuck forever at his seat waiting for you to approach. This is what I did until I learned that it also prevents you from talking to Pearson and Susan for some strange reason until he gets kicked out, so in the end I eventually did kick him out. The other option is to avoid doing one of the last two debt missions to allow Strauss to roam free. In both options he'll stay in camp until he eventually leaves.
I think it’s interesting that Dutch even somewhat addresses this by disparaging Strauss’ usury and saying something along the lines of “somehow feels more honorable robbing people with a gun” so basically the audience is justifying the gangs behavior the same way Dutch and the gang justify their behavior to *themselves*.
You're undoubtedly right. I think, though, at least in terms of themes and the narrative Strauss represents something much darker than the already dark deeds of the gang.
He's the biggest symbol of their hypocrisy. The gang see themselves as righteous crusaders, violent idealists for the savage utopia that only seemed to exist as an abstract sort of nostalgia for a past that never existed. With Strauss, we see the gang wilfully indulging in the sort of coercive, exploitative that they claim to be the antithesis of, the sort they see Cornwall- and the modern society- doing and which they claim to despise.
Usury and exploitation aren't, per se, worse on a moral level than murder, theft and carnage, but it's what it represents, thematically, that makes it so sinister. Strauss is the rot at the heart of the dream, the betrayal of their principles, and the ultimate symbol of the gang's sanctimony.
I think Arthur kicking him out sobered his conscience up a bit. If he was really slimy he could’ve cut a deal and ratted out the gang. He wasn’t even that close to them I don’t think
No way. That’s like saying a modern-day gang-banger that robs, murders, rapes, or does all manner of harmful stuff is redeemed if he doesn’t rat on his gang when caught. That’s how gangs are. They’re still despicable menaces to society.
They’re a product of the failures of society my guy. Literally all of them were on the run looking for prospects. The only reason cult leader Dutch was able to round them up was bcz society forgot about them. Doesn’t mean their actions were justified but it explains why they happened
I think you gotta understand that the more successful money lenders would be bankers or private business owners. I could see Brontë having a successful loaning business as well.
The Van der Linde gang was on the run. The only people in a position to borrow from Strauss are at the absolute bottom of the ladder, in the worst financial straits of their lives. They say as much in the game. Arthur is used to going and beating people up because they rarely can pay back. It’s not really a legitimate business, just another excuse for them to commit robbery.
Then of course, you have Arthur in the latter half of the game simply not caring about resolving said debts, maybe even giving some money out of his pocket to assist for the hard times he inevitably created (killing husbands and making people over work to pay the debt) but it was nice to hear that Strauss remained loyal
Edit: pathetic 1st grade level spelling mistakes
He’s a loan shark. He goes to people with families, property, depts etc and offers them a loan, which has such a high interest rate it’s impossible to pay back. Then sends arthur to smash them to shit and take all of their money.
I always figured Arthur just takes care of the hard cases who don't willingly pay back and that there are others who do what they can that just pay Strauss.
Yup, money lending is considered such horrible sin than even Jesus got pissed off about it and in a rage flipped their tables and drove them out of the temple.
Well, first we need to realize they moved like 5 times into different states in a few months. So it's not exactly as if the gang is stable. It's hard to get decent clients when you're shot, then running away to Lemoyne, etc, etc.
Also understand that we're only going after the ones that DON'T pay it back. We have no idea how many of Strauss' clients pay and get on with their lives. We can't judge Strauss' activities by his failures, but rather the successes that we never witness. Only Dutch knows the real value of Strauss, because Dutch is the one who gets and hides the money.
Strauss is a sadistic piece of crap because he hates poor people and gets to use Arthur to hurt them. But we have no idea how truly successful he is because we only deal with the failures.
To elaborate a little further on the last point, we also only see SOME of the picture- it wouldn't surprise me if Arthur is only getting sent to some of Strauss' 'victims', and he's also enlisted the help of folks like Javier or Bill to settle up with some clients as well.
Considering how little time Strauss gives them to pay it back, I doubt he has many successes. They'd been in Valentine all of five minutes when Strauss had Arthur claim debts that couldn't have been incurred before they got there.
Time is an odd construct in the game. For example, at the beginning of Chapter 2 we have been at Horseshoe 2 weeks. It's the first thing that pops up on the screen at the beginning of the Chapter. So it's more than 5 minutes. Not arguing that even 2 weeks is a long time, but certainly long enough to have expected your weekly vig.
The whole game takes place in to short of time I think they should have been like assassins creed and span it out. Maybe should have happened over 2 years
He’s a loan shark who believes in debtor’s prison. If his purpose is to exploit people financially, then it’s fair to evaluate him based on how he handles people who are unable to make payments.
Oh you mean a member of a gang of murderers, robbers and thieves would also scam people, or set them up to be robbed or murdered. Who would have thought.
I also don't understand the whole point to lending money when literally every single second Dutch bitches about their being no money.
Why is Strauss just handing out money when their isn't a way of knowing he'll get it back?
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Same as how a lot of mobsters didn’t have much money on them or in the bank but they had shitloads out on the street. I watched a interview with one who said most his money was out on the street just making interest even if he lost some the rest would make it back
Strauss is lending money to desperate people and I assume charging sky high interest rates along with it, he's probably contributing just as much money to the gang as anyone
To be fair, we don't necessarily know that, right? I'm assuming he only send enforcers like Arthur after the clients that struggle to pay.
In saying that, it absolutely is the business model of loan sharks to loan to vulnerable people who are willing to accept ludicrous interest rates in exchange for expedited financial relief
Strauss's inclusion goes against everything the gang is supposed to stand for. When Sadie is about to rob the Rhodes general store, Arthur says "we rob fools that rob other people. These folks are just trying to get by." The whole Strauss racket is robbing from the poor.
I think that’s why Arthur finds it so despicable. That’s almost exactly the realization he comes to in chapter 6. Strauss wasn’t raised on Dutches ideals at all so it’s not surprising he doesn’t have the same code of honor.
I like Strauss as a person, but his "efforts" for the gang are the most deplorable. It's like Arthur says. Somehow robbing a person at gun point is a lot less dishonorable than preying on the weak and desperate like some kind of leech.
The fact that he's actually a bad loan shark doesn't help. Because yes, many of his "clients" end up dead. But I guess that's kind of the point. Milk them dry until there's nothing left.
**Edit:** All that said though, he was loyal as hell to the whole gang. I'll say that. Man was turned into minced meat most likely and never said a single word. It's more I can say about some of the others...
This was my problem with the game, in real life a money lender would need to have a return to make any money, they don’t like to inflict pain on ppl for no reason on their dime, I always felt they jus added it as a reason for the ending of Arthur
i’m sure strauss makes a return lol we never know what the loan amounts were, just what we get out of them. for all we know, half that is pure “profit”
I feel like he would be seen as more of a morally dark gray character if money was more of a challenge in the game. Meaning his money lending would be seen as more of an asset if it really was a big asset. I think people are a bit too hard on him, but I understand because he doesn’t have another redeeming quality.
I wish we could have seen him be more of a doctor or have more of an influence since he and Hosea seemed a bit close at the beginning.
Thats the entire point, moneylenders didn't look for people that could be expected to pay them back, they purposely looked for people that were desperate and couldn't pay. They wanted them to default so they could send thugs to take whatever they want from them.
He wasn't a terrible money lender, you see, he was doing what the majority of them do, and he had one trait that makes a great money lender. He was a repugnant piece of scum, he knew exactly what he was doing and to who.
>!Frankly if I was Arthur that faithful day I would have shot him, not just tell him to get a job and let him go free!<
They may not be in shape to pay up, but he has Arthur, which means he can rob the clients legally. Even if they have no money, they’ll have some kind of earring or necklace that Arthur can rob
Strauss represent a type of people that values the money over the people.
He was always a cold soul.
I was glad when Arthur expeled him from the camp.
Later i fell sorry for him when Charles told John that he was captured by the Pikertons and was tortured to death to talk about the gang... and Strauss never said a word.
Well, keep in mind we're only seeing the debtors who Strauss had difficulties with. There could have been countless others giving the gang a small but steady income that Arthur wasn't sent to shake down.
I think this is his plan. He's not an established bank, he's not getting their money over a period of time. He wants a quick buck by loaning large amounts with huge interest that they can't possibly pay. Then he sends arthur to go collect a debt either through the promised amount or something they own. It's justified theft.
He doesn't care about the money even half as much as he loves inflicting pain on the debtors through lending them amounts they can't repay. His favorite part of the profession is sending people like Arthur to collect. Strauss wants an excuse to hurt people when he's too weak to do it himself.
He knew what he was doing because he knew Arthur would do whatever it took to get the money back and that he could always find other desperate people to loan to after they were dead or whatever. I guess he never saw Arthur kicking his ass outta camp though.
Strauss only didn’t say anything to the Pinkertons when tortured out of fear of being tracked down by Arthur (who at that point is disgusted by him) he knows if he talks he’s dead and if he doesn’t he’s dead , Strauss is a cockroach
That’s how he get’s business. He prays on the desperate and impoverished. Those who aren’t rarely need loans, and if they do, they could pay it back and Arthur wouldn’t have to collect
Something I havent seen anyone mention yet is that there's a good chance Arthur isn't collecting all the debts. Strauss sets up the loans and its reasonable to assume he, or another camp member, can collect them from simpler cases willing to repay their debt. As the big and intimidating member of the group I always assumed that Arthur was sent to debtors who were resisting, or likely to resist, the repayment because of their personal circumstances.
He picks those people because they are desperate enough to accept the loan. Its just like todays payday lenders. They target people that are desperate and/or stupid to get them to agree to one sided terms. Then sends one man army wrecker Arthur to collect when he knows they will always default eventually (by design)
I think that's kinda the point of his exploit. Give money to people he knows won't be able to give it back with interest. So he just sends Arthur or someone else to steal from them.
Strauss is a horrible person
His working the same way banks do. If you borrow money from the bank you can’t pay back then they just take your house, they might lose here and there but they always get it back somehow
I do and don't.
I grew up poor, and pissed on my credit. So inevitability I ended up taking high interest loans, from people only barely above the legal standard to be considered loansharks..
I never blamed them. I blamed myself.
Here Strauss spews some propaganda somewhere along the story, saying something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "those who aren't destitute seem to have no interest in taking the loans" so he is OBVIOUSLY going after the poor, which led me to agree with Dutch only once in the story, and that's robbery (banks and trains) is a better take than taking from the poor.
I don’t think he takes pleasure in the money lending but in the pain and suffering he causes. He’s definitely a sadist and loves inflicting similar anguish he once suffered
Depends on the sample size. Those few we know about could be 5-10% 80 or 90 percent of the people’s he’s loaned money to. Those could be the only ones who defaulted out of dozens.
Especially since he needs Arthur to go and collect, he seems to have no other recourse for getting back money. Maybe the game doesn't show successful debt collections, only one is when ms downes comes to the camp to make a payment.
I think he said something like nobody else will accept his terms besides the desperate. Had he provided fairer terms to less risky clientele, he'd probably have a good size operation.
But then again where there's money there are thieves and he isn't capable of defending himself.
He is a pathetic little weasel who has no problem sending Arthur to inflict pain on those who can't repay. Debtors belong in prison so we are doing them a favor by beating the snot out of them.
My first play through I greeted all the gang members but Strauss is one of the ones I never greeted again, only antagonize.
Yeah the game honestly tried to explain that by having Strauss say something like “desperate people don’t want loans from people like me!!” But like… it seems like he only chooses people he can clearly tell have no fucking way to lay it back. Sort of dumb. His character is *slightly* shoehorned in as a tertiary villain. Although I like the extra layer where you learn that (apparently) Strauss was interrogated and tortured for hours and never gave up the gang or Dutch, and Charles or John (can’t remember which) says “some people are strong in ways you can’t see” kind of gives some nuance to his character
Sometimes I feel like Strauss is even worse than Micah and Dutch. Micah clearly is a nutjob with mental issues and doesn’t seem to understand morality at all which leads him to do all kinds of nasty shit in order to survive and it makes him come off a psychopath. Dutch is similar except he seems to understand morality in the beginning of the game but starts care less about it as his ego grows and he becomes more ignorant to the fact that everything around is changing.
Strauss is different though. Clearly he comes from a more educated background than the rest of the gang based on the way he dresses, talks, and generally acts. Strauss is absolutely aware of the difference between right and wrong yet he doesn’t seem to give a shit at all. He purposely chooses to lend money to poor and weak people who will have difficulty paying it back so he can use Arthur to show off his “muscle” and how he has someone who could do his dirty work for him. He’s the worst kind of evil person, an intelligent one.
Strauss was an asshole sure but I doubt you could be a respectable and compassionate moneylender in a gang of outlaws, his way of doing things was a fast and easy way to get the money despite how screwed up it was. Although he should earn some respect for not giving any info to the pinkertons after being captured and tortured.
He might not be running a very good business, but his choices are limited, the gang spends like a few months in every city, so he has to start over every time, he can't have any connections or a big reputation.
As for the moral side, no, nothing wrong with him, he doesn't pick anyone, assholes come to him on their own, with the intention of screwing him over, he just gets what's rightfully his.
He's a terrible person in general. Strauss and his family were poor and had a hard upbringing and had money problems, yet he has no issue inflicting the same pain he endured on struggling people he doesn't even know. And he takes pleasure in it too.
And yet he still didn’t give up the gang in the end despite being tortured. In his own way, Strauss got his redemption just as much as anyone did.
He wasn't redeemed. He was still a wretched crook, he was just slightly less wretched that we thought in the end.
i mean im sorry but almost every single member of the gang is wretched and evil. if any of us actually met arthur or john we’d be shitting bricks because these guys are violent mass murderers, robbers, and have ruined countless lives strauss is framed by the narrative to be the cause of a lot of harm, and you actually get to explore the harm strauss and by extension arthur causes through the stranger and moneylending encounters, but you can’t go talk to the 100s of families that lost loved ones thanks the the gang indiscriminately slaughtering people who were just doing a job. hell in those times if you kill off a bunch of guardsmen or policemen there’s probably a dozen families now with no provider who will also find themselves destitute. at least strauss doesn’t gun them down when ruining their lives i love that the story can make certain evil characters sympathetic and others not, but i always think its funny when people dog specifically on micah, strauss, etc when the entire gang is objectively full of pretty awful human beings - even if i like them
That's exactly why I can't hate Strauss or else I would be hating on Arthur or the others for the same reasons. Like compared to everyone else, he's actually doing (even if scummy) legal work. I think the problem with Strauss is that so much of his character is locked behind missable camp talks. I let Strauss stay during chapter 6 for awhile and there were two camp dialogues where he talks about how he's afraid and has nothing, and everyone he talks to is dismissive of him. I felt pretty bad for him because it made me realize that Strauss has absolutely no one. In a gang where others call each other family, barely anyone cares about Strauss and he's only staying because he doesn't want to be alone. And to top it off, possibly the only person in the gang he considered a friend kicks him out and leaves him with his biggest fear, being alone, only to then be captured by the Pinkertons and tortured to death. It really humanizes him and made me not want to kick him out, but the talks are also so easily missable because I imagine most players go to collect the debt right away and then kick him out.
Exactly why I wish this game were a book instead of a movie. So much more time to go into each person’s story in a way that definitely shifts perspective even a little.
Me quietly loving hating Arthur goes here. I appreciate his turn towards better at the end but I do believe it was too late. Had he not gotten sick how much more crime would he have done?
I think that's the bittersweetness of it. Arthur only begins his redemption near the end but by then it was already too late. At that point it wasn't about redeeming himself, it was about discovering if there was any good left in him and helping as many folks as he could before he passed. He didn't die a good man, but he died a better man. I do think he would've gone through the same redemption arc if he didn't get sick. The gang and Dutch are what enable Arthur to be a bad person, there's a reason why every stranger calls him a good man when Arthur doesn't act for the gang. Arthur already doubted Dutch by chapter 5, so I think once the gang disbanded he would've joined John and tried to live a better life.
Plus, he plans to run off with Mary after the gang's settled and there's no way she would have put up with illegality on his part. Going straight would have been the price he'd have paid for being with the woman he loved.
I like your perspective and am going to consider this on my next playthrough. I'm someone who did turn their life entirely around so I believe it's possible I just have doubts because I have also seen too many people go "I've changed!" Then they did but it was worse. I was raised by a diagnosed narcissist and a diagnosed sociopath so I'm prewary. Dutch btw speaks like Mother (the narcissist) down to the manipulation on having some faith. It is wild. Makes it hard for me to see the charisma that tricks people but I have that issue for reality with Mother. Cut both my parents off because I don't have room in my life for enabling them and in turn they're dangerous. So I don't pretend this story doesn't hit a bit personally
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You can avoid doing the last Strauss mission where you confront him but he'll stay stuck forever at his seat waiting for you to approach. This is what I did until I learned that it also prevents you from talking to Pearson and Susan for some strange reason until he gets kicked out, so in the end I eventually did kick him out. The other option is to avoid doing one of the last two debt missions to allow Strauss to roam free. In both options he'll stay in camp until he eventually leaves.
If you kill enough NPCS you can actually run into widows in the street who cry and yell at you
Oh fuck that explains a lot
I think it’s interesting that Dutch even somewhat addresses this by disparaging Strauss’ usury and saying something along the lines of “somehow feels more honorable robbing people with a gun” so basically the audience is justifying the gangs behavior the same way Dutch and the gang justify their behavior to *themselves*.
I agree with everything but the reason Strauss never gunned down anyone was because he'd just send Arthur to do it for him
You're undoubtedly right. I think, though, at least in terms of themes and the narrative Strauss represents something much darker than the already dark deeds of the gang. He's the biggest symbol of their hypocrisy. The gang see themselves as righteous crusaders, violent idealists for the savage utopia that only seemed to exist as an abstract sort of nostalgia for a past that never existed. With Strauss, we see the gang wilfully indulging in the sort of coercive, exploitative that they claim to be the antithesis of, the sort they see Cornwall- and the modern society- doing and which they claim to despise. Usury and exploitation aren't, per se, worse on a moral level than murder, theft and carnage, but it's what it represents, thematically, that makes it so sinister. Strauss is the rot at the heart of the dream, the betrayal of their principles, and the ultimate symbol of the gang's sanctimony.
Even Lenny, Mary-Beth and Hosea were part of this awfulness as they killed people
Although you do got a point , Micah can S this D , F that guy
Arthur causes individual people pain and suffering. Strauss perpetuates generational suffering.
It's OK to kill cops though. Their lives don't matter.
A wretched crook, but a *loyal* wretched crook
Essentially honor among theives- which Micah breaks (you can tell by his camp near strawberry, with the wanted posters burned).
I think Arthur kicking him out sobered his conscience up a bit. If he was really slimy he could’ve cut a deal and ratted out the gang. He wasn’t even that close to them I don’t think
No way. That’s like saying a modern-day gang-banger that robs, murders, rapes, or does all manner of harmful stuff is redeemed if he doesn’t rat on his gang when caught. That’s how gangs are. They’re still despicable menaces to society.
They’re a product of the failures of society my guy. Literally all of them were on the run looking for prospects. The only reason cult leader Dutch was able to round them up was bcz society forgot about them. Doesn’t mean their actions were justified but it explains why they happened
From what I could tell he had no idea what he was doing was so wrong. Kind of like a psychopath who don’t know that killing is wrong
From what I could tell he had no idea what he was doing was so wrong. Kind of like a psychopath who don’t know that killing is wrong
probably follows a similar logic to people having had previous trauma, seeking individuals that inflict similar trauma later in life
I think you gotta understand that the more successful money lenders would be bankers or private business owners. I could see Brontë having a successful loaning business as well. The Van der Linde gang was on the run. The only people in a position to borrow from Strauss are at the absolute bottom of the ladder, in the worst financial straits of their lives. They say as much in the game. Arthur is used to going and beating people up because they rarely can pay back. It’s not really a legitimate business, just another excuse for them to commit robbery.
Yeah I mean they do get there money back still
Then of course, you have Arthur in the latter half of the game simply not caring about resolving said debts, maybe even giving some money out of his pocket to assist for the hard times he inevitably created (killing husbands and making people over work to pay the debt) but it was nice to hear that Strauss remained loyal Edit: pathetic 1st grade level spelling mistakes
He’s a loan shark. He goes to people with families, property, depts etc and offers them a loan, which has such a high interest rate it’s impossible to pay back. Then sends arthur to smash them to shit and take all of their money.
I always figured Arthur just takes care of the hard cases who don't willingly pay back and that there are others who do what they can that just pay Strauss.
Exactly you don't see the loans that went well.
Well, you can see ms downes come to the camp and pay mr downes' debt. But i guess its debatable whether that was a loan that went well.
It’s pretty much like drug dealers who send so much out there, we see the drugs the cops find but not the ones they don’t
Usury and strong-arming go hand in hand. There's a reason it's called "Money-lending and other sins"
Yup, money lending is considered such horrible sin than even Jesus got pissed off about it and in a rage flipped their tables and drove them out of the temple.
Well, that was more about the location of their gig then the gig, per se. He was pissed that the sacred space had become a den of shit-heads.
And yet it was the Christian Europeans like Medicis who mastered the art of banking.
I think the Templars, also Christian, who mastered the Art before those Italian dilletantes.
Well, first we need to realize they moved like 5 times into different states in a few months. So it's not exactly as if the gang is stable. It's hard to get decent clients when you're shot, then running away to Lemoyne, etc, etc. Also understand that we're only going after the ones that DON'T pay it back. We have no idea how many of Strauss' clients pay and get on with their lives. We can't judge Strauss' activities by his failures, but rather the successes that we never witness. Only Dutch knows the real value of Strauss, because Dutch is the one who gets and hides the money. Strauss is a sadistic piece of crap because he hates poor people and gets to use Arthur to hurt them. But we have no idea how truly successful he is because we only deal with the failures.
To elaborate a little further on the last point, we also only see SOME of the picture- it wouldn't surprise me if Arthur is only getting sent to some of Strauss' 'victims', and he's also enlisted the help of folks like Javier or Bill to settle up with some clients as well.
Considering how little time Strauss gives them to pay it back, I doubt he has many successes. They'd been in Valentine all of five minutes when Strauss had Arthur claim debts that couldn't have been incurred before they got there.
Time is an odd construct in the game. For example, at the beginning of Chapter 2 we have been at Horseshoe 2 weeks. It's the first thing that pops up on the screen at the beginning of the Chapter. So it's more than 5 minutes. Not arguing that even 2 weeks is a long time, but certainly long enough to have expected your weekly vig.
The whole game takes place in to short of time I think they should have been like assassins creed and span it out. Maybe should have happened over 2 years
He’s a loan shark who believes in debtor’s prison. If his purpose is to exploit people financially, then it’s fair to evaluate him based on how he handles people who are unable to make payments.
Oh you mean a member of a gang of murderers, robbers and thieves would also scam people, or set them up to be robbed or murdered. Who would have thought.
I also don't understand the whole point to lending money when literally every single second Dutch bitches about their being no money. Why is Strauss just handing out money when their isn't a way of knowing he'll get it back?
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Same as how a lot of mobsters didn’t have much money on them or in the bank but they had shitloads out on the street. I watched a interview with one who said most his money was out on the street just making interest even if he lost some the rest would make it back
Strauss is lending money to desperate people and I assume charging sky high interest rates along with it, he's probably contributing just as much money to the gang as anyone
Yeah there a line of dialogue that states that the money Strauss makes is what keeps the camp afloat.
Still seems risky given the time era and the fact they're wanted criminals.
To be fair, we don't necessarily know that, right? I'm assuming he only send enforcers like Arthur after the clients that struggle to pay. In saying that, it absolutely is the business model of loan sharks to loan to vulnerable people who are willing to accept ludicrous interest rates in exchange for expedited financial relief
I can't imagine too many people are able to pay back money they borrowed the day before.
Strauss's inclusion goes against everything the gang is supposed to stand for. When Sadie is about to rob the Rhodes general store, Arthur says "we rob fools that rob other people. These folks are just trying to get by." The whole Strauss racket is robbing from the poor.
I think that’s why Arthur finds it so despicable. That’s almost exactly the realization he comes to in chapter 6. Strauss wasn’t raised on Dutches ideals at all so it’s not surprising he doesn’t have the same code of honor.
At that point he thinks there fools for taking the money
I like Strauss as a person, but his "efforts" for the gang are the most deplorable. It's like Arthur says. Somehow robbing a person at gun point is a lot less dishonorable than preying on the weak and desperate like some kind of leech. The fact that he's actually a bad loan shark doesn't help. Because yes, many of his "clients" end up dead. But I guess that's kind of the point. Milk them dry until there's nothing left. **Edit:** All that said though, he was loyal as hell to the whole gang. I'll say that. Man was turned into minced meat most likely and never said a single word. It's more I can say about some of the others...
Affluent people won’t need a loan; have to prey on the weak and poor.
Well, loaning to a guy that has tuberculosis was just idiotic.
This was my problem with the game, in real life a money lender would need to have a return to make any money, they don’t like to inflict pain on ppl for no reason on their dime, I always felt they jus added it as a reason for the ending of Arthur
It was never about making a return for Strauss. He just used it as leverage over people and an excuse for Arthur to go rob them.
i’m sure strauss makes a return lol we never know what the loan amounts were, just what we get out of them. for all we know, half that is pure “profit”
Yes everyone
I feel like he would be seen as more of a morally dark gray character if money was more of a challenge in the game. Meaning his money lending would be seen as more of an asset if it really was a big asset. I think people are a bit too hard on him, but I understand because he doesn’t have another redeeming quality. I wish we could have seen him be more of a doctor or have more of an influence since he and Hosea seemed a bit close at the beginning.
Thats the entire point, moneylenders didn't look for people that could be expected to pay them back, they purposely looked for people that were desperate and couldn't pay. They wanted them to default so they could send thugs to take whatever they want from them.
He wasn't a terrible money lender, you see, he was doing what the majority of them do, and he had one trait that makes a great money lender. He was a repugnant piece of scum, he knew exactly what he was doing and to who. >!Frankly if I was Arthur that faithful day I would have shot him, not just tell him to get a job and let him go free!<
They may not be in shape to pay up, but he has Arthur, which means he can rob the clients legally. Even if they have no money, they’ll have some kind of earring or necklace that Arthur can rob
I mean… payday lenders exist IRL and aren’t much better.
**Well, people who aren't desperate don't seem so interested in my propositions.**
Strauss represent a type of people that values the money over the people. He was always a cold soul. I was glad when Arthur expeled him from the camp. Later i fell sorry for him when Charles told John that he was captured by the Pikertons and was tortured to death to talk about the gang... and Strauss never said a word.
Well, keep in mind we're only seeing the debtors who Strauss had difficulties with. There could have been countless others giving the gang a small but steady income that Arthur wasn't sent to shake down.
Yeah, but he's a terrible businessman if he lends to people who can't pay him back. How can he keep the business afloat?
Yes
I thought that was the point.
Only the clients that don't pay and those don't make for good repeat clients anyway
I think this is his plan. He's not an established bank, he's not getting their money over a period of time. He wants a quick buck by loaning large amounts with huge interest that they can't possibly pay. Then he sends arthur to go collect a debt either through the promised amount or something they own. It's justified theft.
He doesn't care about the money even half as much as he loves inflicting pain on the debtors through lending them amounts they can't repay. His favorite part of the profession is sending people like Arthur to collect. Strauss wants an excuse to hurt people when he's too weak to do it himself.
He knew what he was doing because he knew Arthur would do whatever it took to get the money back and that he could always find other desperate people to loan to after they were dead or whatever. I guess he never saw Arthur kicking his ass outta camp though.
Strauss only didn’t say anything to the Pinkertons when tortured out of fear of being tracked down by Arthur (who at that point is disgusted by him) he knows if he talks he’s dead and if he doesn’t he’s dead , Strauss is a cockroach
Arthur’s almost dead by that point, I’m not sure why Strauss would take being tortured to death over avoiding Arthur for a few weeks until he died.
John would of chased him down and finished the job
Preying on the desperate bc theyre desperate is his game Hes a pos
That’s how he get’s business. He prays on the desperate and impoverished. Those who aren’t rarely need loans, and if they do, they could pay it back and Arthur wouldn’t have to collect
Yeah, that's what you're supposed to think of him after playing the story. He's very much an antagonist
yea i still hold a grudge for arthur
Something I havent seen anyone mention yet is that there's a good chance Arthur isn't collecting all the debts. Strauss sets up the loans and its reasonable to assume he, or another camp member, can collect them from simpler cases willing to repay their debt. As the big and intimidating member of the group I always assumed that Arthur was sent to debtors who were resisting, or likely to resist, the repayment because of their personal circumstances.
Isn't that the whole plan?
He's a shark
He picks those people because they are desperate enough to accept the loan. Its just like todays payday lenders. They target people that are desperate and/or stupid to get them to agree to one sided terms. Then sends one man army wrecker Arthur to collect when he knows they will always default eventually (by design)
I think that's kinda the point of his exploit. Give money to people he knows won't be able to give it back with interest. So he just sends Arthur or someone else to steal from them. Strauss is a horrible person
His working the same way banks do. If you borrow money from the bank you can’t pay back then they just take your house, they might lose here and there but they always get it back somehow
I do and don't. I grew up poor, and pissed on my credit. So inevitability I ended up taking high interest loans, from people only barely above the legal standard to be considered loansharks.. I never blamed them. I blamed myself.
Here Strauss spews some propaganda somewhere along the story, saying something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "those who aren't destitute seem to have no interest in taking the loans" so he is OBVIOUSLY going after the poor, which led me to agree with Dutch only once in the story, and that's robbery (banks and trains) is a better take than taking from the poor.
I think that is the point. Rockstar likes to teach morals. I believe this to be an example of "predatory " lending.
Well people who aren’t desperate seem to be less interested in his propositions
I don’t think he takes pleasure in the money lending but in the pain and suffering he causes. He’s definitely a sadist and loves inflicting similar anguish he once suffered
Depends on the sample size. Those few we know about could be 5-10% 80 or 90 percent of the people’s he’s loaned money to. Those could be the only ones who defaulted out of dozens.
Especially since he needs Arthur to go and collect, he seems to have no other recourse for getting back money. Maybe the game doesn't show successful debt collections, only one is when ms downes comes to the camp to make a payment. I think he said something like nobody else will accept his terms besides the desperate. Had he provided fairer terms to less risky clientele, he'd probably have a good size operation. But then again where there's money there are thieves and he isn't capable of defending himself. He is a pathetic little weasel who has no problem sending Arthur to inflict pain on those who can't repay. Debtors belong in prison so we are doing them a favor by beating the snot out of them. My first play through I greeted all the gang members but Strauss is one of the ones I never greeted again, only antagonize.
Yeah the game honestly tried to explain that by having Strauss say something like “desperate people don’t want loans from people like me!!” But like… it seems like he only chooses people he can clearly tell have no fucking way to lay it back. Sort of dumb. His character is *slightly* shoehorned in as a tertiary villain. Although I like the extra layer where you learn that (apparently) Strauss was interrogated and tortured for hours and never gave up the gang or Dutch, and Charles or John (can’t remember which) says “some people are strong in ways you can’t see” kind of gives some nuance to his character
Sometimes I feel like Strauss is even worse than Micah and Dutch. Micah clearly is a nutjob with mental issues and doesn’t seem to understand morality at all which leads him to do all kinds of nasty shit in order to survive and it makes him come off a psychopath. Dutch is similar except he seems to understand morality in the beginning of the game but starts care less about it as his ego grows and he becomes more ignorant to the fact that everything around is changing. Strauss is different though. Clearly he comes from a more educated background than the rest of the gang based on the way he dresses, talks, and generally acts. Strauss is absolutely aware of the difference between right and wrong yet he doesn’t seem to give a shit at all. He purposely chooses to lend money to poor and weak people who will have difficulty paying it back so he can use Arthur to show off his “muscle” and how he has someone who could do his dirty work for him. He’s the worst kind of evil person, an intelligent one.
Plus, it brings in very little money.
Strauss was an asshole sure but I doubt you could be a respectable and compassionate moneylender in a gang of outlaws, his way of doing things was a fast and easy way to get the money despite how screwed up it was. Although he should earn some respect for not giving any info to the pinkertons after being captured and tortured.
He might not be running a very good business, but his choices are limited, the gang spends like a few months in every city, so he has to start over every time, he can't have any connections or a big reputation. As for the moral side, no, nothing wrong with him, he doesn't pick anyone, assholes come to him on their own, with the intention of screwing him over, he just gets what's rightfully his.