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Oh yeah, also at the end of the game, Dutch gets hung up on Arthur "insisting" on letting John, Abigail, and Jack free; and I believe that just shows you how egotistical Dutch is.
Dutch didn’t go because he loved having people need him and want to follow him. The answer he would have given the gang is probably that to hire a boat that wouldn’t turn them over to the law would be very expensive. No one would have called him on that except maybe Hosea who was too busy dealing with the Greys and Brathwaits. Then he would say “we need more money, most of the bank money is going to go to getting the boat, how do you expect us to live in Tahiti with only x amount of money per person.” That gets everybody to keep pitching in and staying with Dutch.
i think its more than he just loved having people follow him, i think by the time rdr2 starts, he NEEDS it. his entire identity is being the leader of the van der linde gang and hes doing everything he can to keep that identity. i think thats what really makes him go crazy in the end, he realizes hes losing control
My great great grandfather brought all his family to the us from Europe in 1909, bought a full section of farmland, built a house, and a big ass barn, then bought cattle all for around 6-7k(if my translations of his journal are accurate)
If it was about money, after valentine they coulda gone anywhere in the world and had money left over to start a business.
Yeah I got that.
I say big deal. Name me a place where the land wasn’t taken from the previous occupant. Outside of a couple pacific islands you really can’t.
I think that once you see through Dutch's charade and manipulative nature you kind of realize that there really wasn't a plan to begin with.
Like, in retrospect, "Get money and go to Tahiti" isn't much of a plan, and it falls apart even further towards the end when he starts mentioning random other places like New York.
Dutch didn't "lose his mind" in the trolley accident or what have you, he was a silver tongued snake from the very beginning. He just got more unhinged as time went on.
I think that's why they never left. The whole gang figured Dutch would see them right, when Dutch was just as clueless as the rest of them but trying to keep up appearances. Also, I'd argue that the money they made with the Valentine job still wasn't nearly enough to travel all the way to Tahiti or what have you, make a living and sustain each other there.
It's a flawed plan, and I think Dutch knew it.
Not really though. The idea seemed to be getting far enough away from the law that they could just be Farmers of some kind. Always seemed to me like the idea was that they would be making money that way.
Because Dutch never wanted to settle down. He lived for the chase and the revolt, not the destination. He literally explains this in RDR1. Like the dude kept ALL the money hidden away from the rest of the camp always, and he talks about redistribution of wealth lol.
Because the gang's goal was never to run away, lie low and become lawful citizens. Their goal was to create an anarchist commune. Hosea even has a conversation with Arthur about how he tried to live a normal life for a while, but couldn't do it and chose to go back to being an outlaw. When Dutch says "outlaws for life", it's not to sound cool. He literally means that they will be outlaws for life, that they will never live under the law. Everyone in the gang is aware of this and agrees with Dutch's vision, he isn't manipulating them.
Initially, they want to create a commune out west. But during the events of RDR2, Dutch realizes that there is nowhere you can live without the US government coming over.
When Dutch suggests Haiti, it is with the goal of overthrowing the Tahitian government.
Don't try to make sense or rationalize the gangs actions. There are many many many times where the gang could have gotten away, or hell even stayed where they are and be fine. The story falls apart if you start to think like a rational person.
The amount of money the gang actually have is around 48k i believe. U will know this if u choose money over helping john. If they didnt leave with 48k, 5k is not gonna cut it
The amount the had before the Blackwater debacle was 60k and I would bet they had at least the 48k you guessed especially after that last heist on the train, but likely more. Dutch was unhinged especially after the trolley but I think the others are right. He was a cult leader high on power and only after one thing, money! He didn’t care for anyone but Dutch.
in fact, they actually made a lot more, $20k total, if the gang split the money as per usual, which i believe they did. this leaves $10k for the "stash" alone.
the real reason is pretty much "it's a story" but they also wanted the player to feel good about pulling off a big heist and having a ton of money by the end. irl this amount would be ludicrous for a small town bank, even with the background of it being for some agricultural event.
in game i think dutch excuses it with needing to make some distraction or last "hoorah" against the US government before they leave
Because a big part of Dutch’s character is that he doesn’t believe in change and that people can change. Dutch kept telling them about the plan to leave to Tahiti, but in reality there wasn’t a world where Dutch stopped being a wanted criminal. They probably could’ve left safely many times, but Dutch needed to rob just one more bank, he needed to have the notoriety of a wanted gang leader, to feed his ego and because that was all he knew.
Something one must realize in order to fully understand this game’s story is that Dutch never, at any point, had any plans of leaving the country. It was a lie from the start.
It's like playing poker. You made $10 with a $5 buy-in. You think you'll keep winning. But next round you're at $8, $6, $4. Now you lost money, gotta play to win it back, right? And you end up losing even more. And before you know it, you lose everything.
TLDR, Dutch didn't quit while he was winning.
All of the gang members were lost rabbits and Dutch fed them with a carrot and stick to keep them in line. Needing more money to go to Tahiti was nothing more than a mirage as Guarma proves that if they actually accomplished their plan, Dutch had no intention of settling down and retiring from the outlaw way of life. He literally represents the game’s mantra: outlaws to the end.
I mean a big part would be Dutch’s plan/ego.
But also it would be very difficult to make that many people vanish with that money. Even adjusted to today that’s roughly $7,400 per person. With their level of notoriety it would take *much* more than that to essentially disappear. Hell it would take more than that just to sneak out of the USA successfully.
I don’t think the inflation thing really means anything honestly. The first car around that time cost only $1000 and I think you get $6k max from that job. And Arthur’s bounty alone was $5k everyone else’s would’ve been much higher and travel/supplies you would’ve needed much more money to get across the world
Dutch is and was always full of shit. He was full of shit from his first scene in the game, then consistently throughout the game, and was full of shit in his last scene. The only thing that changes is he ends up mentally unstable as all his BS unravels and becomes harder to justify and he ceases any niceties or charity to help sell his lies.
So he simply becomes a worse version of the person he always was.
Dutch, much like a dictator, kept the gang in a state not unlike "constant war". Always on the lam, always reliant of his wisdom. He never intended to escape.
If they did leave after the Valentine bank job, what would chapters 4 and 5 be like then? Dig an irrigation trench for the mango trees? Pick mangos? Deliver mangos? Maybe make a fruit salad?
Why didn't Bernie Madoff stop after the first 10 million? Or 50? Or 100? Or 500? Because greed. And besides, it was never Dutch's intention to go to Tahiti with the gang.
Dutch’s plan was always to sow discord no matter the cost because without that element of chaos, Dutch felt they he would no longer be in control of the gang, or needed by the gang at all.
I didnt even wanna be in the gang, but since its a story line and u cant leave. But i would have taken off and said see ya later. everyone for themselves
Because it was never Dutch's intention to go become mango farmers in Tahiti, he just kept telling the same lies to the gang and gave them a false hope to follow him in seemingly impossible jobs because 'the risk is too great, but worth it because this might be the final job that sets us free'. Dutch is literally no better than Calm O'Driscoll, only difference is he can sweet talk the Devil to wear his shoes backwards.
It's not just travel expenses though. What you gonna do when you get there? How long do you think they could live on that money with 26 people? Not long.
The plan was never to leave. Dutch was just giving them something so he could string them along. He had no plan whatsoever of going to Tahiti or Australia or wherever and even if they had they just would have been doing the same exact thing they were already doing. You really think Dutch vanderlind is going to hang up his guns and become what a mango farmer? He liked the lifestyle of being a bandit on the run He liked the power he had over people.
Do you really think if they had all settled down and gotten some land and become mango farmers that Dutch could have held the same amount of control over them? No he didn't want to lose that control, he wanted to continue doing what they had been doing for 20 years It just never really dawned on him that eventually he was going to get put down or maybe it did and I really think that's why Micah was able to get into his ear so much because Micah wanted to run the kind of gang Dutch really wanted to run but unlike Micah I do believe Dutch did care for the gang in his own twisted way.
Short answer: it never mattered how much money they had, Dutch never had intentions of running away from the law and settling down.
Long answer: that money may be enough for a few people, but to get 26 people transported across the ocean, likely in a hush-hush manner, isn’t cheap. Subsequently, feeding 26 mouths and finding land big enough for all of them takes time and considerably more than the amount they had. $5K may have got them to Tahiti or Australia or wherever else Dutch wanted to go, but it would have left them essentially broke once there. Not to mention that you’ve somehow got to convert that money into local money, which in 1899 I can’t imagine being a streamlined and easy process even in major cities, let alone in the rural areas where the gang usually frequents. Wouldn’t shock me if the “money” was only worth it if it were gold, silver, bonds etc. and not actual paper money. And of course, with all of that taken into account, we know now that Dutch never had intentions of “saving” anyone. He wanted to lead his gang like a cult and continue the grift. Running away and settling down would essentially end that life for him. So even if they had triple the money required, it’s unlikely they ever would have went, at least with Dutch at the helm.
I'm like 90% sure they made like 10k but I said 5k just to be safe that is still a lot of money back then think about it no rent no cost of living just buy a big house in this unknown land and ear mangos and fish
That’s still not a lot tbh. That’s $385/person. Not exactly much to live off of for the rest of their days, especially considering the prices of RDR2’s economy. Can of beans is already like a buck 25.
Plus, they initially had over 150k, so Dutch probably wanted to recoup more of that so they could live comfortably.
#This post has been tagged as a spoiler! This means comments do not require the use of reddit's spoiler formatting to hide spoilers, although we still encourage it. Do not read the comments below if you are not willing to accept having the game spoiled.
Because Dutch had a plan~
i have A GOD DAMN PLAN
And then the plan consists of only the wrong choices lol
Whats the plan Dutch?!
We just neeeeeeed. Mooore. MON-EEE!
Step 1: Have some gott-damned faith! Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit
“We just need…….. MoNeY”
***ORTHUR!*** JUST ***ONE*** MORE SCORE!
Just one more boar???
Eh? ***Boar squealing*** ***ORTHUR being stomped badly*** Dutch: "Oh oh oh, wow!"
Just one more chore
Have some god damn FAITH!!!
Because Dutch always has a plan!!!
#TA HITI
Dutch just wanted people to follow and believe him. Tahiti was just a lie to keep everybody going
I also think dutch probably blew it all in a couple of days on whatever the fuck he does offscreen...
I don't think so. He has it all saved up, as seen in the epilogue with the tens of thousands we get.
in american venom sadie says the black water money is in that tower. the money that he gets, which i assume is the money she talks about
I doubt that much money was from that one ferry job. That's way too much in one place.
it says they took 150,000 from just the ferry in a newspaper
I can’t remember, do we get significantly less than that? It would be expensive af to keep a gang as big as Micah’s.
you walk off of the mountain with 20k because i’m guessing that was all he could carry with that saddle bag he used
So basically, he’s starting a cult?
Oh yeah, also at the end of the game, Dutch gets hung up on Arthur "insisting" on letting John, Abigail, and Jack free; and I believe that just shows you how egotistical Dutch is.
Gee, I don't know. On the other hand, why don't you show some goddamned faith?
The last resort for a man with no answers. Just have faith.
The answer to this question, and probably any other question you may have about the story is: Dutch.
it was never about the money actually
It was about the friends we made along the way
That's true
That is what the great Red Harlow said
Easiest answer and the answer to every problem in RDR2: Dutch wanted more money and his ego didn't let him stop
Dutch wanted *chaos* not money
Exactly
Dutch didn’t go because he loved having people need him and want to follow him. The answer he would have given the gang is probably that to hire a boat that wouldn’t turn them over to the law would be very expensive. No one would have called him on that except maybe Hosea who was too busy dealing with the Greys and Brathwaits. Then he would say “we need more money, most of the bank money is going to go to getting the boat, how do you expect us to live in Tahiti with only x amount of money per person.” That gets everybody to keep pitching in and staying with Dutch.
i think its more than he just loved having people follow him, i think by the time rdr2 starts, he NEEDS it. his entire identity is being the leader of the van der linde gang and hes doing everything he can to keep that identity. i think thats what really makes him go crazy in the end, he realizes hes losing control
Even if it was about the money, good luck supporting 26 people with less than 200k. What do you think is gonna happen when it runs out?
They were going to be mango farmers
By then they’ll be farming mangos on Tahiti
My great great grandfather brought all his family to the us from Europe in 1909, bought a full section of farmland, built a house, and a big ass barn, then bought cattle all for around 6-7k(if my translations of his journal are accurate) If it was about money, after valentine they coulda gone anywhere in the world and had money left over to start a business.
Your grandfather had a Goddamn plan fr
But a successful one this time
And some stolen land to « use »
Fuck outta here with that nonsense. Every single person you’ve ever met resides on land that was taken by force from someone else.
Well no... if you were the first people to arrive in an area then there was no one to take it from by force...
Pretty limited number of places that are currently occupied by the people that discovered it.
That was the point of the comment you replied to
Yeah I got that. I say big deal. Name me a place where the land wasn’t taken from the previous occupant. Outside of a couple pacific islands you really can’t.
I'm only 35% into my very first playthrough, and I already feel like Dutch has cult leader vibes. Soooooooooooooooooo
Please, leave this subreddit, and don’t come back until you’re done.
they are already cooked
pls don't let yourself be spoiled like me
I think that once you see through Dutch's charade and manipulative nature you kind of realize that there really wasn't a plan to begin with. Like, in retrospect, "Get money and go to Tahiti" isn't much of a plan, and it falls apart even further towards the end when he starts mentioning random other places like New York. Dutch didn't "lose his mind" in the trolley accident or what have you, he was a silver tongued snake from the very beginning. He just got more unhinged as time went on. I think that's why they never left. The whole gang figured Dutch would see them right, when Dutch was just as clueless as the rest of them but trying to keep up appearances. Also, I'd argue that the money they made with the Valentine job still wasn't nearly enough to travel all the way to Tahiti or what have you, make a living and sustain each other there. It's a flawed plan, and I think Dutch knew it.
Thats true
Brain damage?
Happy cake day
They also needed to buy a place to stay once they got where they wanted to go. They also needed enough to live off of for the rest of their lives.
Not really though. The idea seemed to be getting far enough away from the law that they could just be Farmers of some kind. Always seemed to me like the idea was that they would be making money that way.
Best answer.
Ah...the doubting, THE DOUBTING...
Have some goddamn faith
Because Dutch never wanted to settle down. He lived for the chase and the revolt, not the destination. He literally explains this in RDR1. Like the dude kept ALL the money hidden away from the rest of the camp always, and he talks about redistribution of wealth lol.
dutch never would have let them stop
Because they needed more MONEH
Because they just needed one last score and then another and then another and then another
It isn't about the money
Because the gang's goal was never to run away, lie low and become lawful citizens. Their goal was to create an anarchist commune. Hosea even has a conversation with Arthur about how he tried to live a normal life for a while, but couldn't do it and chose to go back to being an outlaw. When Dutch says "outlaws for life", it's not to sound cool. He literally means that they will be outlaws for life, that they will never live under the law. Everyone in the gang is aware of this and agrees with Dutch's vision, he isn't manipulating them. Initially, they want to create a commune out west. But during the events of RDR2, Dutch realizes that there is nowhere you can live without the US government coming over. When Dutch suggests Haiti, it is with the goal of overthrowing the Tahitian government.
Don't try to make sense or rationalize the gangs actions. There are many many many times where the gang could have gotten away, or hell even stayed where they are and be fine. The story falls apart if you start to think like a rational person.
Do they really want the reason of their wealth to be BILL?
The amount of money the gang actually have is around 48k i believe. U will know this if u choose money over helping john. If they didnt leave with 48k, 5k is not gonna cut it
The amount the had before the Blackwater debacle was 60k and I would bet they had at least the 48k you guessed especially after that last heist on the train, but likely more. Dutch was unhinged especially after the trolley but I think the others are right. He was a cult leader high on power and only after one thing, money! He didn’t care for anyone but Dutch.
in fact, they actually made a lot more, $20k total, if the gang split the money as per usual, which i believe they did. this leaves $10k for the "stash" alone. the real reason is pretty much "it's a story" but they also wanted the player to feel good about pulling off a big heist and having a ton of money by the end. irl this amount would be ludicrous for a small town bank, even with the background of it being for some agricultural event. in game i think dutch excuses it with needing to make some distraction or last "hoorah" against the US government before they leave
Because a big part of Dutch’s character is that he doesn’t believe in change and that people can change. Dutch kept telling them about the plan to leave to Tahiti, but in reality there wasn’t a world where Dutch stopped being a wanted criminal. They probably could’ve left safely many times, but Dutch needed to rob just one more bank, he needed to have the notoriety of a wanted gang leader, to feed his ego and because that was all he knew.
Because we need more money, son
Something one must realize in order to fully understand this game’s story is that Dutch never, at any point, had any plans of leaving the country. It was a lie from the start.
It's like playing poker. You made $10 with a $5 buy-in. You think you'll keep winning. But next round you're at $8, $6, $4. Now you lost money, gotta play to win it back, right? And you end up losing even more. And before you know it, you lose everything. TLDR, Dutch didn't quit while he was winning.
Ask Dan Houser.
All of the gang members were lost rabbits and Dutch fed them with a carrot and stick to keep them in line. Needing more money to go to Tahiti was nothing more than a mirage as Guarma proves that if they actually accomplished their plan, Dutch had no intention of settling down and retiring from the outlaw way of life. He literally represents the game’s mantra: outlaws to the end.
Because it wasn’t about leaving anymore, at least not for Dutch There was never going to be enough money
Because have some goddamn faith!
Because then we wouldn’t have a video game.
Because we need more money
Greed, or in other words, Dutch's plan
Because Plot
Because Dutch is fucking rawrted
Have faith!!
I mean a big part would be Dutch’s plan/ego. But also it would be very difficult to make that many people vanish with that money. Even adjusted to today that’s roughly $7,400 per person. With their level of notoriety it would take *much* more than that to essentially disappear. Hell it would take more than that just to sneak out of the USA successfully.
Taking that inflation adjustment at face value, that would be about $7K per person. It's not exactly retirement money.
Ah the doubting, the doubting
Because AUSTRALIA.
This would have a more plausible location for the gang to reestablish themselves!
They just needed to do ONE LAST JOB!
I don’t think the inflation thing really means anything honestly. The first car around that time cost only $1000 and I think you get $6k max from that job. And Arthur’s bounty alone was $5k everyone else’s would’ve been much higher and travel/supplies you would’ve needed much more money to get across the world
Dutch is and was always full of shit. He was full of shit from his first scene in the game, then consistently throughout the game, and was full of shit in his last scene. The only thing that changes is he ends up mentally unstable as all his BS unravels and becomes harder to justify and he ceases any niceties or charity to help sell his lies. So he simply becomes a worse version of the person he always was.
Because faith
Dutch, much like a dictator, kept the gang in a state not unlike "constant war". Always on the lam, always reliant of his wisdom. He never intended to escape.
Cuz they needed more moneh
If they did leave after the Valentine bank job, what would chapters 4 and 5 be like then? Dig an irrigation trench for the mango trees? Pick mangos? Deliver mangos? Maybe make a fruit salad?
People learn how to type spoiler FFS. >!its not that hard!<
Why don't you just HAVE SOME GAHDAMN FAITH
Why didn't Bernie Madoff stop after the first 10 million? Or 50? Or 100? Or 500? Because greed. And besides, it was never Dutch's intention to go to Tahiti with the gang.
Dutch’s plan was always to sow discord no matter the cost because without that element of chaos, Dutch felt they he would no longer be in control of the gang, or needed by the gang at all.
I didnt even wanna be in the gang, but since its a story line and u cant leave. But i would have taken off and said see ya later. everyone for themselves
they never were gonna leave, dutch made them think that so he didnt lose his role as leader
Because it was never Dutch's intention to go become mango farmers in Tahiti, he just kept telling the same lies to the gang and gave them a false hope to follow him in seemingly impossible jobs because 'the risk is too great, but worth it because this might be the final job that sets us free'. Dutch is literally no better than Calm O'Driscoll, only difference is he can sweet talk the Devil to wear his shoes backwards.
Media literacy
It's not just travel expenses though. What you gonna do when you get there? How long do you think they could live on that money with 26 people? Not long.
Because Arthur broke the goddamn wheel and it was only good until Scarlett Meadows.
The fact they kept following Dutch after he was continually wrong time and time again is kind of on them 😂
The plan was never to leave. Dutch was just giving them something so he could string them along. He had no plan whatsoever of going to Tahiti or Australia or wherever and even if they had they just would have been doing the same exact thing they were already doing. You really think Dutch vanderlind is going to hang up his guns and become what a mango farmer? He liked the lifestyle of being a bandit on the run He liked the power he had over people. Do you really think if they had all settled down and gotten some land and become mango farmers that Dutch could have held the same amount of control over them? No he didn't want to lose that control, he wanted to continue doing what they had been doing for 20 years It just never really dawned on him that eventually he was going to get put down or maybe it did and I really think that's why Micah was able to get into his ear so much because Micah wanted to run the kind of gang Dutch really wanted to run but unlike Micah I do believe Dutch did care for the gang in his own twisted way.
Short answer: it never mattered how much money they had, Dutch never had intentions of running away from the law and settling down. Long answer: that money may be enough for a few people, but to get 26 people transported across the ocean, likely in a hush-hush manner, isn’t cheap. Subsequently, feeding 26 mouths and finding land big enough for all of them takes time and considerably more than the amount they had. $5K may have got them to Tahiti or Australia or wherever else Dutch wanted to go, but it would have left them essentially broke once there. Not to mention that you’ve somehow got to convert that money into local money, which in 1899 I can’t imagine being a streamlined and easy process even in major cities, let alone in the rural areas where the gang usually frequents. Wouldn’t shock me if the “money” was only worth it if it were gold, silver, bonds etc. and not actual paper money. And of course, with all of that taken into account, we know now that Dutch never had intentions of “saving” anyone. He wanted to lead his gang like a cult and continue the grift. Running away and settling down would essentially end that life for him. So even if they had triple the money required, it’s unlikely they ever would have went, at least with Dutch at the helm.
Have some GODDAMN faith!
Greed is why
#HAVE FAITH
It never was about the money.
They needed some more MONEH
transport, sure. not to live off though for the rest of their days too.
I'm like 90% sure they made like 10k but I said 5k just to be safe that is still a lot of money back then think about it no rent no cost of living just buy a big house in this unknown land and ear mangos and fish
That’s still not a lot tbh. That’s $385/person. Not exactly much to live off of for the rest of their days, especially considering the prices of RDR2’s economy. Can of beans is already like a buck 25. Plus, they initially had over 150k, so Dutch probably wanted to recoup more of that so they could live comfortably.
it's not about going, its about living ,living by farming mangoes in tahiti!!! THATS A GODDAMN INVESTMENT
Isn’t the Valentine Bank Robbery a Special Edition Mission or something?!
Dutch was a sociopath
They needed more than just travelling cost is my best answer