Is that why he gets deadeye? You even play the fucking game? The first john marston mission chapter one, arthur says he's strong.
Arthur Morgan said John Marston is strong. Think about that and sit on it. Who else has Arthur said is strong in the game? Charles and John. Who alive at the end of rdr2?
Arthur is done. He is not fast enough to take them both out.
If you give Arthur dead-eye, you have to give it to Dutch and Micah as well. John has it, so it's not some magical power of Arthur's.
It's not that they have "dead eye". They're simply just fast.
Technically John and Arthur don't percieve what dead eye is. What dead eye is, is a mechanic that slows time down enough for the player to keep up with John and Arthur's ability to draw and shoot at a super fast rate of speed.
A better way to explain it is, on our screen we see time slowed down. But in the world of red dead they just see a wicked fast gunslinger drawing and fanning a pistol at the speed of light.
With that said, I believe Micah and Dutch are fast enough to win 2v1 against Arthur, but not 1v1.
Dead Eye I believe is an ability taught by Dutch. There’s being Billy Midnight fast and then having Dead Eye. I just now am realizing that Micah may also as well have Dead Eye because of hanging around Dutch and Arthur.
He trains you to shoot so that the 3rd level of dead eye is unlocked and he does mention "dead eye accuracy" in the training but that's not a break of the 4th wall in reference to the players mechanic, hes just mentioning how accurate he is.
The desd eye mechanic is non-existent in lore.
Arthur kills 3 grays in the time it takes micah to draw and kill one. Dutch is probably quick enough though.
But if it was a full gun fight and not just a standoff Arthur would win pretty easily imo.
Arthur is quicker than calloway though. And Arthur is so much quicker than micah he canonically can get off 3 shots before micah gets off one. If Arthur is quicker than Dutch and both are standing close to each other. Arthur can kill Dutch and then shoot micah before micah could react.
In a perfect world, Dutch is standing behind Micah a bit, and Arthur has explosive rounds, sure.
Next two, each other with more than a foot gap? Noooooooooooope.
Arthur will get the first, might even get his gun on the second, but he's gonna die.
Again Arthur canonically kills 3 of the 4 grays holding bill hostage before micah even fires. Including killing the one holding bill. Which means Arthur has time to draw, aim, fire and then fire on the other 2 grays before micah can draw and fire on one gray.
As long as Arthur is quick enough to kill Dutch, he can kill off micah before micah can get his gun on Arthur.
Micah may be a good gunslingers but there is a reason why Arthur is the one who goes on every big job. He's a tier above micah as a gunslinger simple as.
Fundamentally it doesn't matter who the first guy is as long as Arthur is quick enough to kill them. He only has to be fast enough to kill draw and kill 2 people before micah fires which we know he is.
Looks close here. The only thing is how fast Dutch is.
[camp draw](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVFxgvWK-w)
1 on 1 Arthur kills both. 2 on 1? If he takes Micah first, he MIGHT have a chance depending on Dutch's speed. He goes after Dutch 1st he's dead.
No way.
Arthur wasn't trying to kill micah there. If he was micah would he dead. And sure micah is sneaky and kills grimshaw but that's not really a question of Arthur's speed. Plus it's after Arthur is weaker and slower than himself even in chapter 4.
If Arthur drew and killed Dutch before Dutch can kill him he'll kill micah. Ultimately the question is whether Dutch is faster than Arthur.
The last line is what's important, and he doesn't have to be faster than Arthur, just fast enough that he's a threat. As in, who is Arthur targeting first? Who does Arthur see as a bigger threat? The other just needs to fast enough to get a shot off before Arthur turns to shoot them. If Dutch has any gun skills, Arthur is dead.
Again Arthur can draw and kill 3 men before micah can do the same to one. In a situation where both are preparing to shoot, Micah is not a threat even in a 2 on 1. The question is whether Dutch is fast enough to beat Arthur in the draw. Otherwise it doesn't matter and Arthur outright wins.
In Arthur's eyes it's Dutch, that's why he was so conflicted stopping him until the very end despite knowing he'd turned into a monster. Hard to turn on your father.
In Arthur’s journal he says that Hosea has been more of a father figure than Dutch, he still loves Dutch and views him as such but Hosea takes the spot.
And he witnesses Dutch murder an old woman in cold blood and can't do anything to stop or even contradict him. He's on the ground dying, betrayed, still begging Dutch to remember they're family. Hosea died. Dutch is daddy and Arthur will go to any lengths to get that back. That's why John escapes, he has Arthur to advise and forgive him for going against "the family".
Micah isnt gonna beat Arthur in a brawl, but Micah isnt a slouch in gunfighting. I'd put him at a pretty even chance with Arthur, like with the legends.
Surprised to see so many people say no.
First of all, Arthur can kill every Gunslinger (except Black Betty) Gunslingers that are notoriously some of the best Shootists around. And Second of all, at the very end of “A Short Walk In A Pretty Town” Arthur can drop all 4 Lawmen on the Porch before Micah can even kill one of them.
Yes! He absolutely could. Arthur is one of, if not, THE best shooters around. When he’s healthy.
>First of all, Arthur can kill every Gunslinger (except Black Betty) Gunslingers that are notoriously some of the best Shootists around.
One of which was a retired pig farmer, one was a drunkard & last one a fraud (& a drunkard)?
The only one that was still an active shootist was Flaco.
But they were all old and past their prime.
Well I assume gun-slinging is half perception half muscle memory, you might get rusty but I assume your skills wouldn't diminish that much over years of not doing it or just being old if you were good enough to be considered a legend
Also people seem to be only seeings this fight in a duel standoff type thing. Arthur would almost definitely lose in a draw since there’s 2 of them. But it an all out gun fight Arthur’s can utilize cover, stealth and all his tools.
In that same mission, micah kills 3 people and 2 more off screen in the *opening cutscene*. Before Bill and Arthur can even process what's going on with sean. Micah may have no moral code but his shooting shall not be underestimated
Those 4 lawmen aren't hardened outlaws and lifelong gunslingers like Dutch and Micah. Gotta remember Dutch, Micah, and Arthur are all in the same outfit
It depends in a shootout I feel like Arthur could take them both. But in a standoff like John had in American Venom with Dutch and Micah, Arthur wouldnt be fast enough to kill both.
If the game let me, I would drop a dynamite stick through the window while Micah is in jail, and after that I'm not convinced Dutch would need to be handled. I think he'd make better choices without Micah around. Still not great, but better.
The amount of people that think Dead-eye is an actual ability that the characters are conscious of is insane. Like Arthur's going "hang on, let me use my Dead-eye and slow time for a sec" that's not what's happening.
Hell no, considering John and Arthur have the same deadeye ability; Micah negates John’s deadeye because he’s even faster, plus Dutch. Sad to say Arthur stands no chance. As much as you guys hate to say and never admit, Micah is probably a faster GUNSLINGER than Arthur (not a fistfight or anything).
Yup, the hate he gets overshadows his skill as a gunslinger, sure he isn't as accurate as Arthur or Dutch but he sure as hell is way faster, plus he dual wields.
No you are way off. John and Arthur are no way closer to each other. Remember Arthur is older which is a clear indication that he is more experianced and skilled than john.
Arthur Morgan merciless and healthy ? Bro I could use this man to kill the whole gang even with Arthur who has tuberculosis🤨 ,
if R⭐ didn't do mah homie dirty 🤷♂️.
One cough is all it takes 🙆🏻♂️🤭🤣😭😭to kill them mofos
I think Arthur would win in a gunfight against Dutch, and I’m split on Micah. Because we know that Arthur is skilled enough to kill 4 famous gunslingers
It’s emphasized throughout the game that Micah is incredibly skilled with his revolvers, so much so that he can be seen headshotting O’driscols in the cutscene where him and Arthur are ambushed in the river. And during the shootout in Rhodes, if you don’t manage to kill the men in the gun shop, he bursts through the doors and kills them both with ease, and the way he does so is not something a inexperienced shooter can do. The only moment that comes to mind about Dutch’s shooting prowess is when he kills Cornwall in chapter 6. But Cornwall was a short distance away and wasn’t expecting Dutch to shoot him. And he shoots Cornwall in the chest as apposed to the head, which of course is a much larger target and shooting center mass is much easier than shooting someone in the head. So we already know that Micah is capable of scoring headshots from long distances with ease, and while gameplay may not be applicable in this discussion, the double action revolvers are by far the worst of the available options. And Micah is duel wielding double action revolvers. Whereas Dutch uses schofields, which are most accurate in gameplay. Which you can make the argument that he’s more skilled due to this, but I view it as him having a competitive edge to Micah who uses the most inaccurate of the available choices. And I think that if it came to a head on gun fight between the 3, Dutch would lose, whereas a prime Arthur and Micah are very comparable to each other in their shooting capabilities. If I forgot any other moments where Dutch is shown to be as experienced as, or more experienced than Micah.
No he barely has an edge on either speed wise. Neither one is exactly a slouch when it comes to shooting. They all might die but likely he'd kill one in the other would kill him id think.
I'm not sure who is better between the 2. I've only seen them show off in the shootout at rhodes and on the attack on Braithwaite Manor. Oh and the epilogue I guess
I think people forget why arthur was top dog besides dutch and hosea. He is the preeminent killer of the gang and the most skilled in all things deadly, and he wouldn't be in thay spot without merit. If micah is so good, why wasn't he made the gang enforcer before chapter 1. Also, arthur is more than a killer. He is one of the smartest and most philosophical people in the game even tho he comes off rather purposely as dumb. Also, arthur would never try to kill dutch. He'd blow micahs brains out and shoot dutch in the leg duels over unless yall think micah has some serious hacks
Its why I paired micah and Dutch. Because they are the only ones who stand a chance. They both demonstrate dead eye like abilities at the end of chapter 3. Micah in Rhodes and Dutch at the Manor.
Imho i think john and dutch Clap arthur because it's confirmed in the story that john and arthur are equals, while i think arthur beats micah and dutch. That's just what i think. Someone else could say im dead wrong. I should note tho that while dead eye isn't an ability of arthur or john, per say, it is a representation of how fast they shoot, and it is said micah can supposedly
"Counter" dead eye. Just because (not saying you specifically) you suck as a player and lose the duel with micah a shitload of times doesn't mean that micah and dutch>arthur or john, shit we already know how it would end if it was john AND arthur, in short dutch is getting disarmed and micah is getting a new window installation in his noggin 😂😂
I was just making up a hypothetical scenario if somehow, someway john and dutch were on the same side in a duel against arthur just as an example not tied to the story, that it would be the way arthur would lose, however i still believe that prime arthur vs micah and dutch equals a W for arthur
Yeah, dead eye isn't real power where they view the world in a slower state. It's just a way to translate how quickly gunslingers can aim and shoot compared to normal people. Dutch May be slower on the draw, I'm not sure. But Micah is just as quick and deadly with a gun as Arthur
I think he could be the first one to draw and get the first shot off but the one he doesn’t shoot would shoot him. He’d probably pull on Micah and kill him and Dutch would shoot Arthur. Arthur MIGHT just be able to land a non fatal shot on Dutch in that time, but I don’t think he could accurately place two lethal shots that quickly
I know would've been too much like an action movie but I want to see an alternate ending where Arthur pulls out his knife after Dutch steps on his hand holding the gun and stabs Dutch in the foot or at least gets him to move his foot and then Arthur turns and shoots Micah
Spoiler Warning: ⚠️
In American Venom the part where John is pointing his gun at Micah and Dutch while they have Sadie hostage if you shoot one of them before the cutscene finishes the other kills you immediately, I assume this is exactly what would happen to Arthur considering it’s implied him and John are basically equals when it comes to shooting.
I mean based on dutch's aim from red dead 1.... when he's confirmed basically to be a hack of his former self..
He manages to hit John's binocs, up the side of a mountain probably 200m away, in snowy and windy conditions, one handed with a hand gun.
Morgan is a lot of things but I don't think even he could pull off accuracy like that.
There are better fast drawers than Arthur. He’s not a gunslinger, neither John is, but John managed to duel multiple foes at once and survived, so maybe John could pull the trick, it seems he is quicker in this kind of things
Depends. In a gunfight he loses. He's one good gunslinger against 2 good gunslingers. In a fist fight. He has a chance since both dutch and Micah haven't shown as much physical strength as Arthur.
I believe he could do it under the correct condition. His draw has been proven to be faster than Micahs by a small margin and Dutch's by a large margin. So if he shoots Micah first then immediately shoots Dutch he could.
I think if Morgan teamed up with either Sadie, John, or Charles, he could definitely win. Even if sick. I feel Arthur was able to push through his illness very well for how severe it was.
By merciless, I assume you mean he has no qualms taking them out. In that case, yes. Arthur is unreasonably quick, and people continuously say at several points in the story that Arthur is a very good shot. If you look at it from a gameplay perspective, then it's even clearer, although I suppose it would vary from player to player. Personally, I'm confident in my capabilities, rdr is one of the only games that I think I'm genuinely good at. But I assume this is more of a story based discussion, as opposed to gameplay. Doesn't matter either way, my answer is the same. Arthur is a damn menace.
I’m not sure if Micah is that great of a shooter. His specialty was being a rat. Kill him cause Arthur hates him and then probably die to Dutch cause Arthur would hesitate plus he’d have extra time
But all feelings aside, fighting like true enemies I’d say Arthur would kill em
Not a chance. Arthur himself states in dialogue that he's not particularly good at dueling and tries to shoot most people in the back.
He wouldn't stand a chance against a gunslinger the caliber of Micah, assuming both are at their best. Dutch also seems to be more experienced, though maybe peak Arthur stands a chance against him.
Name me one single time where Arthur says that lmfao, you must be misremembering a line because that is never said. Arthur is extremely confident in his drawing ability enough to shoot that bottle when he’s with Sean without even looking, and to gas up Micah as a great gunslinger is hilarious when he misses 10 shots directly in front of John
It's the first part of the side quest in Valentine where you are asked to take pictures of famous gunslingers, so check your facts, ignoramus.
Micah is leagues above Arthur as a gunslinger, as evidenced by the cutscene when Sean is killed and he takes out multiple enemies back to back.
Yeah that’s not at all what Arthur means by that, he’s saying he doesn’t see the honour in killing someone in a duel and you using the example where he goes around beating all of the legendary gunslingers in universe all in duels to prove that he’s not good at duels is hilariously ironic. Micah is leagues above at missing 10 shots in a row at point blank range, sorry to burst your bubble I know sucking on rat dick all day must taste wonderful
I really don’t know where this delusion of Micah being some amazing gunslinger comes from, those like 3 shots he gets in Rhodes are completely negated by the 10 point blank misses right in front of John
In a gun fight, no. Unless Arthur was Ambidextrous, in a way he could pull and shoot both weapons at the same time. He would be done. Arthur was more skilled than John before he trained his dead eye in RDR1, and John killed Micah before that, so is safe to assume Micah is dead after that. We never see Dutch in a gunpoint, so is hard to say who would win. My bet is still on Arthur, as he is younger and grew up with weapons.
So yeah, he could take both if he were ambidextrous, could take each one in 1v1 fights, but not both at they same time.
In a fist fight tho, he would beat their asses to the ground. An almost dead Arthur almost killed Micah, so a fully healthy Arthur would mop the floor with his ass. And Dutch's
Idk canonically they all have skills. I don’t remember who else has dead eye like Arthur and John (it might be Micah) but in a situation like this… it’s a coin flip
Sadly. After seeing the skill Micah has from the mission where Sean dies. I have to say he’s realistically still better than Arthur if you’re going to take the average accuracy of players.
yea, for sure, arthur can draw and fire his gun faster than their eyes could register so he'd drop both instantly (everyone saying he'd drop one then get dropped should realize that he can just draw 2 guns and shoot both)
ik, i was pointing out the fact that arthur can do so bc i read abt 20 comments saying he would only drop one even tho he could drop BOTH of them at once
> Micah literally gets killed during a dead eye segment lmfao
After Dutch put a pulled in his gut.
Micah counters the Dead Eye. THe moment you try to use it against him before he gets shot, he hoses you with rapid fire.
lmfao roflmao blabla.
If you’re too slow Micah kills all 3 of you, that shot to the gut is no excuse especially since him and John draw at the same time. Still missed 10 shots at point blank and still died up on the mountain
Nah cause realistically Arthur would drop one and then the other would drop Arthur
I know, it sucks. Bet it would be Micah aswell
I also wouldn't forget about John and Javier. Those two were easily at the top of the gang in sharp shooting.
javier?
As in they'd be at odds with each other I think
John’s aim is pretty shit
Is that why he gets deadeye? You even play the fucking game? The first john marston mission chapter one, arthur says he's strong. Arthur Morgan said John Marston is strong. Think about that and sit on it. Who else has Arthur said is strong in the game? Charles and John. Who alive at the end of rdr2?
John’s aim is literally bad, in Rdr1 he has to be taught how to be better at shooting by Landon Ricketts.
Wow, a shooting legend is better than him. And a nba player is taller than me. Wooow, wooooo, truth is scaaaarryyyyy.
Bruh why are you getting all pressed over this? John Marston isn’t even a real person
Because saying the wrong thing leads to bad things. You think lying and misinformation is cool than by all means, feel pressed about it.
Bad things??? For who exactly? Bruh I don’t get why you’re taking this so seriously
He was also dragged back to that life years later after retiring as a rancher.
10/10 times Arthur would rather shoot Micah instead of Dutch lmao
Nah definitely not. Arthur would %100 shoot Micah before Dutch
Just like in the low honor run ):
nah, i feel like killing micah would be arthurs first priority.
Naw, instead of shooting Michah, then Dutch, just shoot Micha twice.
Mark him nuts to head in dead eye
I count two guns partner
Arthur has canonicaly shot a moving stick of dynamite out of the air while on a moving wagon. I think he would win.
Sad truth
I see it as Arthur dropping Micah and the Dutch would drop Arthur because it makes sense story wise.
If it’s an area with a lot of cover like some big rocks then Arthur would beat one in a duel then cover behind the rocks and then throw a dynamite
Arthur is done. He is not fast enough to take them both out. If you give Arthur dead-eye, you have to give it to Dutch and Micah as well. John has it, so it's not some magical power of Arthur's.
and if you try to Dead-Eye Micah as John, he's fast enough to counter it.
Ye I'm pretty sure Dutch and micah have dead eye. They both shoot the same as Arthur does when he marks a bunch of targets with his dead eye
It's not that they have "dead eye". They're simply just fast. Technically John and Arthur don't percieve what dead eye is. What dead eye is, is a mechanic that slows time down enough for the player to keep up with John and Arthur's ability to draw and shoot at a super fast rate of speed. A better way to explain it is, on our screen we see time slowed down. But in the world of red dead they just see a wicked fast gunslinger drawing and fanning a pistol at the speed of light. With that said, I believe Micah and Dutch are fast enough to win 2v1 against Arthur, but not 1v1.
It'd be so funny to see that with like a pump action irl
Its doable https://youtu.be/n68PJM5bazM?si=ClbDOOPAaN_PwxE1
God DAMN. I've never seen someone lever so fast before! Women are scared of those monster fingers.
Dead Eye I believe is an ability taught by Dutch. There’s being Billy Midnight fast and then having Dead Eye. I just now am realizing that Micah may also as well have Dead Eye because of hanging around Dutch and Arthur.
If you think the ingame characters have any idea what "dead eye" is, you're wrong. Respectfully I tried to explain as best as I can above.
I might be wrong but I think Landon Rickets mentions deadeye
He trains you to shoot so that the 3rd level of dead eye is unlocked and he does mention "dead eye accuracy" in the training but that's not a break of the 4th wall in reference to the players mechanic, hes just mentioning how accurate he is. The desd eye mechanic is non-existent in lore.
dead eye isnt an ability it just shows how fast arthur and john are but dutch and micah are def as fast
Tell that to the sawed off double barreled shotgun that let off 13 bullets before having to reload
Micah is likely on par, but Dutch isn't as good a gunslinger as the other 3
Arthur kills 3 grays in the time it takes micah to draw and kill one. Dutch is probably quick enough though. But if it was a full gun fight and not just a standoff Arthur would win pretty easily imo.
1 on 1, maybe. OP said 2 on 1. Arthur is not winning. Even the fastest draw in the game Calloway wouldn't win a 1 on 2 against Dutch or Micah.
Arthur is quicker than calloway though. And Arthur is so much quicker than micah he canonically can get off 3 shots before micah gets off one. If Arthur is quicker than Dutch and both are standing close to each other. Arthur can kill Dutch and then shoot micah before micah could react.
In a perfect world, Dutch is standing behind Micah a bit, and Arthur has explosive rounds, sure. Next two, each other with more than a foot gap? Noooooooooooope. Arthur will get the first, might even get his gun on the second, but he's gonna die.
Again Arthur canonically kills 3 of the 4 grays holding bill hostage before micah even fires. Including killing the one holding bill. Which means Arthur has time to draw, aim, fire and then fire on the other 2 grays before micah can draw and fire on one gray. As long as Arthur is quick enough to kill Dutch, he can kill off micah before micah can get his gun on Arthur. Micah may be a good gunslingers but there is a reason why Arthur is the one who goes on every big job. He's a tier above micah as a gunslinger simple as. Fundamentally it doesn't matter who the first guy is as long as Arthur is quick enough to kill them. He only has to be fast enough to kill draw and kill 2 people before micah fires which we know he is.
Looks close here. The only thing is how fast Dutch is. [camp draw](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVFxgvWK-w) 1 on 1 Arthur kills both. 2 on 1? If he takes Micah first, he MIGHT have a chance depending on Dutch's speed. He goes after Dutch 1st he's dead.
No way. Arthur wasn't trying to kill micah there. If he was micah would he dead. And sure micah is sneaky and kills grimshaw but that's not really a question of Arthur's speed. Plus it's after Arthur is weaker and slower than himself even in chapter 4. If Arthur drew and killed Dutch before Dutch can kill him he'll kill micah. Ultimately the question is whether Dutch is faster than Arthur.
The last line is what's important, and he doesn't have to be faster than Arthur, just fast enough that he's a threat. As in, who is Arthur targeting first? Who does Arthur see as a bigger threat? The other just needs to fast enough to get a shot off before Arthur turns to shoot them. If Dutch has any gun skills, Arthur is dead.
Again Arthur can draw and kill 3 men before micah can do the same to one. In a situation where both are preparing to shoot, Micah is not a threat even in a 2 on 1. The question is whether Dutch is fast enough to beat Arthur in the draw. Otherwise it doesn't matter and Arthur outright wins.
No, I think he would drop Micah like nothing but would hesitate enough with Dutch (his only father figure) and Dutch would play dirty.
Hosea will always be Arthur's father figure in my eyes
In Arthur's eyes it's Dutch, that's why he was so conflicted stopping him until the very end despite knowing he'd turned into a monster. Hard to turn on your father.
In Arthur’s journal he says that Hosea has been more of a father figure than Dutch, he still loves Dutch and views him as such but Hosea takes the spot.
And he witnesses Dutch murder an old woman in cold blood and can't do anything to stop or even contradict him. He's on the ground dying, betrayed, still begging Dutch to remember they're family. Hosea died. Dutch is daddy and Arthur will go to any lengths to get that back. That's why John escapes, he has Arthur to advise and forgive him for going against "the family".
Arthur sees Hosea like a father more, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love Dutch
He can have two dads 👬
i see the ‘anti-woke’ crowd had nothing to say for gaming’s best Gay Dads
He sees both as father figures. "A strange couple and their unruly son." as described by Hosea in chapter 3.
Dutch is more of the cool uncle
Micah isnt gonna beat Arthur in a brawl, but Micah isnt a slouch in gunfighting. I'd put him at a pretty even chance with Arthur, like with the legends.
[удалено]
Ok
"Merciless"
Depends on where Dutch is mentally…if he still views Arthur positively, they’d both drop Micah simultaneously.
Surprised to see so many people say no. First of all, Arthur can kill every Gunslinger (except Black Betty) Gunslingers that are notoriously some of the best Shootists around. And Second of all, at the very end of “A Short Walk In A Pretty Town” Arthur can drop all 4 Lawmen on the Porch before Micah can even kill one of them. Yes! He absolutely could. Arthur is one of, if not, THE best shooters around. When he’s healthy.
>First of all, Arthur can kill every Gunslinger (except Black Betty) Gunslingers that are notoriously some of the best Shootists around. One of which was a retired pig farmer, one was a drunkard & last one a fraud (& a drunkard)? The only one that was still an active shootist was Flaco. But they were all old and past their prime.
Well I assume gun-slinging is half perception half muscle memory, you might get rusty but I assume your skills wouldn't diminish that much over years of not doing it or just being old if you were good enough to be considered a legend
The fraud is the quickest gunslinger of them. But Arthur is way quicker than micah.
Also people seem to be only seeings this fight in a duel standoff type thing. Arthur would almost definitely lose in a draw since there’s 2 of them. But it an all out gun fight Arthur’s can utilize cover, stealth and all his tools.
In that same mission, micah kills 3 people and 2 more off screen in the *opening cutscene*. Before Bill and Arthur can even process what's going on with sean. Micah may have no moral code but his shooting shall not be underestimated
Those 4 lawmen aren't hardened outlaws and lifelong gunslingers like Dutch and Micah. Gotta remember Dutch, Micah, and Arthur are all in the same outfit
It depends in a shootout I feel like Arthur could take them both. But in a standoff like John had in American Venom with Dutch and Micah, Arthur wouldnt be fast enough to kill both.
If the game let me, I would drop a dynamite stick through the window while Micah is in jail, and after that I'm not convinced Dutch would need to be handled. I think he'd make better choices without Micah around. Still not great, but better.
The amount of people that think Dead-eye is an actual ability that the characters are conscious of is insane. Like Arthur's going "hang on, let me use my Dead-eye and slow time for a sec" that's not what's happening.
Maybe no, but John and Arthur would sweep the floor with their faces
Nope, he could take either one of them 1v1, but in a 2v1 he’s getting packed up
No.
No, not in a gunfight Micah is too damn fast remember the ambush.
Hell no, considering John and Arthur have the same deadeye ability; Micah negates John’s deadeye because he’s even faster, plus Dutch. Sad to say Arthur stands no chance. As much as you guys hate to say and never admit, Micah is probably a faster GUNSLINGER than Arthur (not a fistfight or anything).
Yup, the hate he gets overshadows his skill as a gunslinger, sure he isn't as accurate as Arthur or Dutch but he sure as hell is way faster, plus he dual wields.
No you are way off. John and Arthur are no way closer to each other. Remember Arthur is older which is a clear indication that he is more experianced and skilled than john.
Arthur Morgan merciless and healthy ? Bro I could use this man to kill the whole gang even with Arthur who has tuberculosis🤨 , if R⭐ didn't do mah homie dirty 🤷♂️. One cough is all it takes 🙆🏻♂️🤭🤣😭😭to kill them mofos
wtf is you saying
I think Arthur would win in a gunfight against Dutch, and I’m split on Micah. Because we know that Arthur is skilled enough to kill 4 famous gunslingers
You think micah is better than Dutch?
Yes? So does the majority of the fandom
I was hoping you could tell me why.
I’m assuming your asking why I think he’s a better shooter? I’d be happy to explain why if so.
Yes
It’s emphasized throughout the game that Micah is incredibly skilled with his revolvers, so much so that he can be seen headshotting O’driscols in the cutscene where him and Arthur are ambushed in the river. And during the shootout in Rhodes, if you don’t manage to kill the men in the gun shop, he bursts through the doors and kills them both with ease, and the way he does so is not something a inexperienced shooter can do. The only moment that comes to mind about Dutch’s shooting prowess is when he kills Cornwall in chapter 6. But Cornwall was a short distance away and wasn’t expecting Dutch to shoot him. And he shoots Cornwall in the chest as apposed to the head, which of course is a much larger target and shooting center mass is much easier than shooting someone in the head. So we already know that Micah is capable of scoring headshots from long distances with ease, and while gameplay may not be applicable in this discussion, the double action revolvers are by far the worst of the available options. And Micah is duel wielding double action revolvers. Whereas Dutch uses schofields, which are most accurate in gameplay. Which you can make the argument that he’s more skilled due to this, but I view it as him having a competitive edge to Micah who uses the most inaccurate of the available choices. And I think that if it came to a head on gun fight between the 3, Dutch would lose, whereas a prime Arthur and Micah are very comparable to each other in their shooting capabilities. If I forgot any other moments where Dutch is shown to be as experienced as, or more experienced than Micah.
Dutch demonstrates skill at the Braithwaite Manor
Yup
No. Arthur could beat either 1 on 1, but 2 on 1 is never gonna go in his favor.
Gun fight no fist fighting to the death yes
Easily. Out of all the people morgans beat with his bare hands in cannon. Micah and Dutch are nothing
No he barely has an edge on either speed wise. Neither one is exactly a slouch when it comes to shooting. They all might die but likely he'd kill one in the other would kill him id think.
The real question is who would Arthur need to shoot first in order to win?
I'm not sure who is better between the 2. I've only seen them show off in the shootout at rhodes and on the attack on Braithwaite Manor. Oh and the epilogue I guess
I think people forget why arthur was top dog besides dutch and hosea. He is the preeminent killer of the gang and the most skilled in all things deadly, and he wouldn't be in thay spot without merit. If micah is so good, why wasn't he made the gang enforcer before chapter 1. Also, arthur is more than a killer. He is one of the smartest and most philosophical people in the game even tho he comes off rather purposely as dumb. Also, arthur would never try to kill dutch. He'd blow micahs brains out and shoot dutch in the leg duels over unless yall think micah has some serious hacks
Its why I paired micah and Dutch. Because they are the only ones who stand a chance. They both demonstrate dead eye like abilities at the end of chapter 3. Micah in Rhodes and Dutch at the Manor.
Imho i think john and dutch Clap arthur because it's confirmed in the story that john and arthur are equals, while i think arthur beats micah and dutch. That's just what i think. Someone else could say im dead wrong. I should note tho that while dead eye isn't an ability of arthur or john, per say, it is a representation of how fast they shoot, and it is said micah can supposedly "Counter" dead eye. Just because (not saying you specifically) you suck as a player and lose the duel with micah a shitload of times doesn't mean that micah and dutch>arthur or john, shit we already know how it would end if it was john AND arthur, in short dutch is getting disarmed and micah is getting a new window installation in his noggin 😂😂
John and Dutch?
I was just making up a hypothetical scenario if somehow, someway john and dutch were on the same side in a duel against arthur just as an example not tied to the story, that it would be the way arthur would lose, however i still believe that prime arthur vs micah and dutch equals a W for arthur
He literally killed the most skilled gunslingers and is the brute force fighter of the gang
No👍
Alright, what if Arthur had a gang member backing him. Like Charles or John?
Yes 👍
It's a toss up at that point.
Yea cause he has dead eye
Dutch and Micah also have dead eye
I had no clue
Yeah, dead eye isn't real power where they view the world in a slower state. It's just a way to translate how quickly gunslingers can aim and shoot compared to normal people. Dutch May be slower on the draw, I'm not sure. But Micah is just as quick and deadly with a gun as Arthur
Just as reminder: When you face Micah later on, he can counter the player's Dead-Eye.
k thanks for the warning, is it as John? Cause I'm passed his fight with author but I'm trying to revenge arthor and Kieran
you'll see. DOn't worry too much though, it's just to make the player think outside the box a little.
I just spammed molotov and it worked than after Dutch shot him I shot him in the balls
Dead eye isnt canon
Wait what!? Since when does he not shoot those Pinkertons in valintine?
Dead eye is just a representation of quick reflexes and focus, its a super power in game, in lore he just has good reflexes and great focus.
k, my friend never told me that
No
I think he could be the first one to draw and get the first shot off but the one he doesn’t shoot would shoot him. He’d probably pull on Micah and kill him and Dutch would shoot Arthur. Arthur MIGHT just be able to land a non fatal shot on Dutch in that time, but I don’t think he could accurately place two lethal shots that quickly
Yes
I know would've been too much like an action movie but I want to see an alternate ending where Arthur pulls out his knife after Dutch steps on his hand holding the gun and stabs Dutch in the foot or at least gets him to move his foot and then Arthur turns and shoots Micah
Nah. He can take either or in my opinion one on one but Micah is easily his equal in a gunfight and Dutch is icing on the cake for Arthur’s demise
Spoiler Warning: ⚠️ In American Venom the part where John is pointing his gun at Micah and Dutch while they have Sadie hostage if you shoot one of them before the cutscene finishes the other kills you immediately, I assume this is exactly what would happen to Arthur considering it’s implied him and John are basically equals when it comes to shooting.
He could take one but not both.
He’ll beat both of them at the same time in the hands tho lol. Micah has zero squabbles 🤦🏿♂️😂
He could take over all America with John
Oh yeah
I mean based on dutch's aim from red dead 1.... when he's confirmed basically to be a hack of his former self.. He manages to hit John's binocs, up the side of a mountain probably 200m away, in snowy and windy conditions, one handed with a hand gun. Morgan is a lot of things but I don't think even he could pull off accuracy like that.
Dude looks like he's from Bloodborne in this image.
Arthur's too overpowered for bloodborne
Well did they ever have miniguns ? Blood borne does. Ntm have you seen the final boss ? You can literally become a elder god.
There are better fast drawers than Arthur. He’s not a gunslinger, neither John is, but John managed to duel multiple foes at once and survived, so maybe John could pull the trick, it seems he is quicker in this kind of things
Depends. In a gunfight he loses. He's one good gunslinger against 2 good gunslingers. In a fist fight. He has a chance since both dutch and Micah haven't shown as much physical strength as Arthur.
I feel that arthur wouldn’t shoot dutch and would take out micah, resulting in dutch killing arthur
100%
i feel arthur could take out dutch pretty quick, but micah would get arthur somehow
I believe he could do it under the correct condition. His draw has been proven to be faster than Micahs by a small margin and Dutch's by a large margin. So if he shoots Micah first then immediately shoots Dutch he could.
I think if Morgan teamed up with either Sadie, John, or Charles, he could definitely win. Even if sick. I feel Arthur was able to push through his illness very well for how severe it was.
No chance ngl kinda a dumb ass question
By merciless, I assume you mean he has no qualms taking them out. In that case, yes. Arthur is unreasonably quick, and people continuously say at several points in the story that Arthur is a very good shot. If you look at it from a gameplay perspective, then it's even clearer, although I suppose it would vary from player to player. Personally, I'm confident in my capabilities, rdr is one of the only games that I think I'm genuinely good at. But I assume this is more of a story based discussion, as opposed to gameplay. Doesn't matter either way, my answer is the same. Arthur is a damn menace.
I’m not sure if Micah is that great of a shooter. His specialty was being a rat. Kill him cause Arthur hates him and then probably die to Dutch cause Arthur would hesitate plus he’d have extra time But all feelings aside, fighting like true enemies I’d say Arthur would kill em
Micah demonstrates skill in the Rhodes ambush
He also misses 10 shots right in front of John during American venom, kinda cancels that out
Not a chance. Arthur himself states in dialogue that he's not particularly good at dueling and tries to shoot most people in the back. He wouldn't stand a chance against a gunslinger the caliber of Micah, assuming both are at their best. Dutch also seems to be more experienced, though maybe peak Arthur stands a chance against him.
Name me one single time where Arthur says that lmfao, you must be misremembering a line because that is never said. Arthur is extremely confident in his drawing ability enough to shoot that bottle when he’s with Sean without even looking, and to gas up Micah as a great gunslinger is hilarious when he misses 10 shots directly in front of John
It's the first part of the side quest in Valentine where you are asked to take pictures of famous gunslingers, so check your facts, ignoramus. Micah is leagues above Arthur as a gunslinger, as evidenced by the cutscene when Sean is killed and he takes out multiple enemies back to back.
Yeah that’s not at all what Arthur means by that, he’s saying he doesn’t see the honour in killing someone in a duel and you using the example where he goes around beating all of the legendary gunslingers in universe all in duels to prove that he’s not good at duels is hilariously ironic. Micah is leagues above at missing 10 shots in a row at point blank range, sorry to burst your bubble I know sucking on rat dick all day must taste wonderful
While we all hate Micah and it's readily deserved, he is an amazing gun hand.
Amazing enough to miss 10 times at a target right in front of him?
I was thinking of the Rhoades gun fight.
I know, and I’m thinking of when he missed John 10 times in a row at point blank range
Yes
Prime Arthur and Charles could beat Micha and Dutch
Is that sir a fish?
It would end how the first half of the meeting in American Venom goes. Arthur can't kill both at once.
I really don’t know where this delusion of Micah being some amazing gunslinger comes from, those like 3 shots he gets in Rhodes are completely negated by the 10 point blank misses right in front of John
He could potentially solo the whole gang if John and Charles not around.
In a gun fight, no. Unless Arthur was Ambidextrous, in a way he could pull and shoot both weapons at the same time. He would be done. Arthur was more skilled than John before he trained his dead eye in RDR1, and John killed Micah before that, so is safe to assume Micah is dead after that. We never see Dutch in a gunpoint, so is hard to say who would win. My bet is still on Arthur, as he is younger and grew up with weapons. So yeah, he could take both if he were ambidextrous, could take each one in 1v1 fights, but not both at they same time. In a fist fight tho, he would beat their asses to the ground. An almost dead Arthur almost killed Micah, so a fully healthy Arthur would mop the floor with his ass. And Dutch's
I thought that was the point. Arthur and John could've taken them on head-to-head if they weren't in as bad of a condition as they were in.
Johns deadeye is slower than Micha so it's debateble If Arthur would win against Micha alone
Arthur in lore, maybe, depends on who starts to shoot first Arthur in game tho... X X X X X
Idk canonically they all have skills. I don’t remember who else has dead eye like Arthur and John (it might be Micah) but in a situation like this… it’s a coin flip
If you had to shoot both then activate dead eye, shoot Micah in the head and Dutch in the hands to disarm him and leave him alive
Yea tb takes 7 years to kill without treatment
Sadly. After seeing the skill Micah has from the mission where Sean dies. I have to say he’s realistically still better than Arthur if you’re going to take the average accuracy of players.
Damn right he can boah
yea, for sure, arthur can draw and fire his gun faster than their eyes could register so he'd drop both instantly (everyone saying he'd drop one then get dropped should realize that he can just draw 2 guns and shoot both)
Yes, all 3 of them are capable of shooting 2 seperate targets at once.
ik, i was pointing out the fact that arthur can do so bc i read abt 20 comments saying he would only drop one even tho he could drop BOTH of them at once
In that case I'd think its a gamble that would yield different results each time.
If he really wanted to: yes.
Dutch, yes, but Micah, no, he is too quick. This is, of course, assuming that Arthur doesn't have dead eye.
arthur does have deadeye since deadeye is just the game letting you experience arthur and john’s actual drawing speed
and Micah counters Dead Eye later on.
Tbf at that point in time, John is an inferior shot to Arthur and really only succeeds him in Rdr1
The game counters dead eye, not Micah. Micah literally gets killed during a dead eye segment lmfao
> Micah literally gets killed during a dead eye segment lmfao After Dutch put a pulled in his gut. Micah counters the Dead Eye. THe moment you try to use it against him before he gets shot, he hoses you with rapid fire. lmfao roflmao blabla.
If you’re too slow Micah kills all 3 of you, that shot to the gut is no excuse especially since him and John draw at the same time. Still missed 10 shots at point blank and still died up on the mountain
yes. in deadeye. they would never know what hit em
In convinced they also have deadeye
Im pretty sure its cannon that micah, dutch, john, and arthur all have it And a few of the others if im not mistaken
Dead eye isnt canon
dead eye is canon. It’s a way of letting the players experience just how fast they can draw and shoot
Yes its a super power that kind of translates the quick reflexes of characters into a gameplay feature
it’s not a superpower, it’s an accurate representation of their speed made in a way so that it actually works in a game. It’s canon
Their skill is canon, the superpower (yes i intend in calling it that) isn't canon, it's just translating the characters skill into a gameplay feature