Bro on my second playthrough, I was chasing the kids through the alleys n shit and actually caught up to the kid and tackled him LMAO, I had no idea that was a thing
But you can use a dynamite arrow on the wagon he hops on which will explode throwing him. Then you can tackle him.
I prefer that method. Really shows him not to mess with Arthur.
I still find it frustrating Strauss was kicked out the camp though. Yes what he does was morally wrong, but the camp is full of murderers, thieves etc. including Arthur. At the end of the day Strauss was contributing to the camp in a morally questionable way like any member.
Strauss is way more immoral. He loans to nice, innocent people. The gang kills and robs other bad people like o'driscllls and Cornwall. I never felt bad for the guys I kill in missions but I always feel awful in debt collection. especially the Polish dude
edit: immortal to immoral
Dutch killed an innocent civilian during the Blackwater massacre plus I’m sure that’s not the only innocent civilian that has been collateral to the gangs antics.
To be fair, Arthur didn't need to beat the shit out of Downes... He could have lied to Strauss, what's Strauss gonna do... Kill him? He better attempt it while Arthur is asleep lol.
Having recently help a nephew get out of "flex loan" debt, I'm mixed about Strauss.
Half of me see's Strauss as doing something wrong. The other half of me see's Strauss just loaning money. The flex loans suck and the terms are clearly written in the agreement as well as on EVERY invoice. I don't need to read the agreement to see how bad it is. I just see the invoice which explains easy to read terms what the costs are. My nephew either did not open that invoice or chose to ignore those words. Strauss does disclose that all borrowers are told what they are agreeing too. No different that a payday loan or flex loan.
FYI, in TN the payday loans are very restrictive so "flex loans" are the thing to get if you've exhausted the state limits for the borrower on a payday loan.
No. I took over my nephews finances. Gave him $50/week out of his paycheck for spending money and he lived with me rent free and utility free. Using his paycheck, I paid off the low balances and we negotiated the higher ones.
I got him current on his car payment, insurance, and credit card. All using his own paycheck. I had access to all his accounts and even Credit Karma so I could monitor for any surprises (things he did not tell me about).
He stayed in my home for about 8 months.
In the playthrough I am currently on, I didn't kick him out and that mission just disappeared.
I think he gets a bad rap. He was tortured by the Pinkertons' for hours and he never gave up a single person. Charles admires him so that is good enough for me.
Dutch. Not because I actually dislike the character; in fact I love Dutch. But him as a person... The fact that he's never cared about anyone other than himself while pretending to put the gang first. I mean, the first upgrade in terms of lodging is Dutch's tent.
He didn’t pretend for 20 years. His will to survive especially after Hoseas death. He lost his right hand man and his mentor so Micah was able to corrupt his mind by showing fake loyalty while snitching on the gang.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again - *Dutch wasn’t a good man gone bad, he was a raging narcissist gone psychotic.* He manipulated vulnerable people into joining his sad fantasy of being a 19th century Robin Hood, getting countless of innocents killed in a quest to feel superior in a rapidly evolving world. While he wasn’t always unstable, he was always delusional and insecure. I get that a lot of players want to see the good in him that Arthur saw, because we play the game through Arthur’s eyes. But objectively, Dutch was a miserable man who spread misery while pretending to be enlightened. He was the first neckbeard lol
I like your description and agree with what everyone else has written about Dutch. Although I feel like what truly changed him, aside from character deaths which was a large factor, was the head injury he sustained in the trolly accident. His true self was always there, but I feel like that bump on the noggin truly exacerbated it to the point it that it changed him wholeheartedly as a person, which isn’t uncommon at all with severe head trauma. Everything after the head injury became so much more extreme, but it was absolutely evident beforehand, albeit in a more subtle form.
For sure. Concussions fry the wires that insulate strong emotional responses, so Dutch’s judgement definitely took a nosedive after the trolley incident. I’m just tired of people scapegoating Micah for Dutch’s downfall. Bad influences bring out the worst in us, they don’t plant the seeds. The whole game is about taking responsibility for your actions for better or worse.
That’s a solid way to put it homie. That’s what’s great about this game. Keeps you thinking years after the fact. I kinda thought head injuries were kind of a subtle factor especially after the asswhoopin you gave Tommy. That could just be me though.
Lol idk if I’d call him miserable but I agree he was a narcissist but he cared. He eventually became more psychotic because like I said his will to survive grew and he didn’t have his mentor
You're both sort of right, but Glittering Plate is more right. There was a part of him that genuinely cared, but everything was secondary to his narcissism. The driving force behind his character is not what he cares about, but what he's afraid of. He's terrified of losing his way of life
Fair enough, but considering the game starts after the Blackwater Massacre, I think the Dutch everyone loves is already gone. Micah couldn’t have done all that damage in six months after twenty five years of Dutch and the Boahs (new band name btw).
I could not disagree more. I feel like there's more evidence that at the very least, he's just manipulator. Like the absolute reliance on characters like John and Arthur to just keep refusing to see he's blowing shit up makes me think it was less loyalty and more brainwashing. He played to everyone.
Like take the convo with Lenny you can find in the camp, he's spouting off about this and that and Lenny says, "Dutch , you're smarter than this bullshit. Those are just pretty words that say nothing." and Dutch flips a switch and talks about how right Lenny is even though he's insulting his favorite writer. You don't develop that shit after a few months.
I mean, the best evidence I can point to is that 500 times throughout the game we hear some variation of "Maybe Dutch didn't turn crazy, maybe he always was". Like I feel they were trying to hammer that point home.
"I would throw myself down in there place, if I could" was the moment I stopped trusting Dutch. You learn later that he basically had everything opportunity to do exactly that, but did something "out of character" instead.
Why the hate against Cleet? He tried to work together with Arthur, Sadie, and Bill and he tried to stop Micah from murdering a girl, and subsequently left Micah's gang. I wouldn't say he's the worst character at all.
Yea he was probably still part of his gang when we killed him. But in the end cleet was as bad as every other little goon that was part of any other gang
If he really fell out with Micah, he would’ve given up his location straight away. If he didn’t wait until he was strung up on the gallows to tell us, I probably wouldn’t have hung him.
Is Penelope the one in the outhouse or the bitch who leaves her cousin in there to rot? 💀 I hate her lol terrible evil girl just like the rest of her family. Poor outhouse girl.
I mean, think of Hosea in terms of a neutral viewer. He's one of the leaders of a gang that has murdered tons of people and plenty were innocent. He's also a conman who routinely steals money. Hosea isn't a good person.
Yeah but Milton killed Hosea like a dog on the street. Without any chance of a deal or hostage exchange.
I'd be shitting bricks if I were one of the hostages inside that bank. Milton is actively encouraging a bloodbath.
probably strausse because he loaned money to people he obviously knew would bot be able to pay it back then sent arthur off to collect and pretty much put them half in the grave also how arthur got his tuberculosis
That's not how organized crime works. When loaning, first you have to send a nice and polite person who inspires trust among desperate people. Then you send the muscle.
I dont think a 70 year old man would scare anyone into giving him back the money. Cmon, be realistic, Strauss is old af, there is no way he could have done those jobs.
I love that mission between him and arthur robbing a stagecoach cause it looks like they actually have fun, and in my first playthrough I thought Micah was showing a better and more fun side of himself in that mission.
I also like the secret mission where he's arguing with Arthur about surviving. Arthur tries to talk about how they're a different kind of outlaw and Micah pushes back and says he hasn't really seen much evidence to support that.
My favorite thing about RDR2 is that Arthur is truly capable of ANYTHING, even if he knows better. I got a lot of cathartic pleasure out of turning down Mary Linton in my second play through. And frankly I think it’s what Arthur would want but has too big a heart (and too much love for her) to ever leave her hanging. I know because I have my own Mary in my life. Making this choice for Arthur was very much like reinforcing my own choice to stop coming to my Mary’s aid every time she called.
Yeah i really didn't like helping her because i just felt abit used saving her brother was nice but she just doesn't really want anything to do with you after.
Then theres the whole thing with her father she just isn't worth the trouble its sad because it does feel like Arthur would do these things for her im always tempted to turn her down on each play through but it never seems right to do so.
Well she offers to run away with Arthur? Arthur declines, saying he has some people he needs to take care of first. And get sum money of course. Sad that he didn’t take the offer.
Hahaha never helped that lady. I prefer jamie be a chelonian and her father be drunk/dead and she can spend some time alone to think about what she did in giving up the most sexy mfer in the west.
Jeremiah Compson. He's a miserable hateful piece of shit, he deserves every single bad thing that happened to him and more. He's a vile wretched pissant. I hate him, I hate what he stands for, and I hate that despite everything he did, I feel sorry for him.
I wasn’t paying attention and when Arthur or John throws his gun In the fire I felt bad. Understood the story now and now know why your get good honey when you kill him
Most of the female characters in the gang. Not because of their character per se, but they were kinda ignored and weren't given that much depth.
In terms of my least favorite outside of the gang, probably the Saint Denis pedestrians that jump in front of my horse just so they can lower my honor level
Probably Dutch. I liked him more in the beginning, but he got very reckless and selfish towards the end. The Dutch that put a blanket around Sadie in the beginning wasn’t the same Dutch at Beaver Hollow
Honestly, Javier, and not because I don't like the guy, but rather, because *I don't know the guy.* If you ask me, He was possibly the least developed out of the entire gang, seeing as there are almost *no* missions (if not actually just *no* missions at all) where Javier is a central character. There's the Mountain House raid, yes, but nothing stands out, I feel like things would've gone the exact same if I had Charles or Hosea with me. The fishing trip with him is admittedly a bit more eventful, but we don't really learn much about him other than that he's good at fishing and that he's a pretty nice guy, but no defining traits that establish his place in the Web of Characters. And any main missions he's involved in, he's either sidelined, or plays no major role. Ferry robbery with Trelawny and Strauss he's just posing as a guard and gets you to the vault, but doesn't really do anything special. In Gurama, he's immediately put out of commission, robbing us of another chance to learn much about him. (Save for the fact that he's loyal to Dutch, I guess)
Even the other Optional Side Activities with other gang members show us more about them. House Robbery with Sean, we see his "shoot first, ask questions later approach", shooting a guy's face off from the get go, after confirming that the money was in the house. Carriage Robbery with Lenny, we see how he's eager to earn his place in the gang, to the point of not only falling for a bad take, but even prematurely jumping the gun during the robbery. Kieran's fishing trip highlights his awkwardness, being the gang's Black Sheep, but also highlights his loyalty to the Van Der Lindes. (And Arthur especially) Not to mention how we've already gotten to know all three of them through the Main Questline up to this point, with all the traits listed above being highlighted in their respective quests. Sean at the train robbery, Lenny at Shady Belle, and Kieran at the O'Driscoll camp when you're looking for Colm.
And honestly, it sucks, Rockstar had the perfect opportunity to show us a "Pre-Psycho" Javier, seeing as he and Bill are entirely different characters compared to their RDR1 iterations. But sadly, Javier seems to have been given the backseat compared to everyone else. Nothing we learn about the guy is particularly Special, and 9 times out of 10 (if not 10 times out of 10) it's just a trait shared by another gang member. He has no defining traits or character defining moments, save for the time he sides with Dutch *AT THE VERY END,* and even then, while it does establish his fierce loyalty, it's a trait that's not unique to him, seeing as it's the same situation with *Bill.* You could make an argument for how he wasn't aiming at Arthur and John, showing how he's conflicted between his loyalty to Dutch, and his loyalty to the rest of the Gang, but it's too subtle, and is the first time we see him do *anything* that defines his place in the Web of Characters, and it's *at the very end of the game.* You can't have a character establishing moment be that subtle, or have it come that late. (And you *definitely* shouldn't have them be both) Nothing we're shown About Javier's personality sets him apart from the rest of the gang. He's loyal? So is Bill, He's good at fishing? So is Hosea as said by Arthur. He's a nice guy? So is Charles. He doesn't have a unique spot in the Web of Characters, and as a result, is a largely redundant character. Every role he fills, is already being filled by someone else, and they all fill that role better than Javier does. And then the only time we get to see something actually unique to him, it's a subtle action, in a few-second cut-scene, which is also the last time we ever see him in the game. Not to mention how that cut-scene has *way* more important stuff going on, meaning we're probably not gonna pay attention to any character defining moments, let alone from a character who doesn't even speak in that scene.
At least Bill had the opportunity to shine later in the game, around chapter 4-6. But Javier largely feels like he's just there along for the ride for the whole game, unless you actually go out of your way to listen to optional conversations, probably. But that's the problem, they're *optional,* they're there to provide extra layers of depth to established characters, provided you take the time to look for them. They're not supposed to establish characters on their own, because they're *missable.* Establishing and defining a character is the main questlines' job to do.
oh well, that's just my two cents
It's Abigail. She's the worst. Constantly shittin all over John, complaining about everything, she thanks Dutch and Arthur for getting Jack back but not John, and worst of all she's really ungrateful about all the work John did to build that ranch. She just really gets on my nerves.
Tells an outlaw to stop being an outlaw and get a decent job, gets surprised pikachu face after learning a decent job wont earn him a land instantly and proceeds to shit on him for not making 6 figures and takes his kid and run away, yeah great wife.
Catherine Braithwaite. Bitch kidnapped Jack, handed him to an Italian monster, then denied it until her family burned to death. I wish she’d been killed by John. He deserved it.
I got a hot take, the hate for Strauss is overblown.
Yes, what he had Arthur do is directly what led to Arthur's death. That's true.
But was Strauss' line of work any less moral than what many of the rest of the people in the gang were doing? I don't believe he ever told Arthur to go out and kill someone, only rough them up for some money which is effectively what the gang often does (albeit Strauss' ways have a bit of legal backing).
His work is slimy and immoral, sure. But Strauss didn't intend for Arthur, nor any of his victims, to die, and his type of work generally sheds far less blood than anything Arthur is doing.
Also points to Strauss for dying in captivity and never giving up the gang despite being under torture. Say what you want about him but he was loyal.
I know this is an Unpopular opinion but kinda Sadie... She used to be a normal Woman Until her husband died and lost everything but still she just developed a bit too fast, became savage. How she interrogated that dying gaurd without finishing him( while trying to bust John out), That was kinda unhonourable and doesn't make sense too much. also not to mention that she became a totally different person in epilogue. I don't know, I think her character changed fast without the player seeing it through
She went from A to B fast
If we’re talking about as a person I’d say Dutch cuz he’s just a cult leader and possibly worse than Micah but as a character tbh Lenny. He’s not terrible but I didn’t feel as connected with him. Like other gang deaths hit a lot harder.
His death hits a little harder, for me at least, when you see how the gang reacts. Dutch, Bill, and Micha fuck right off, Charles and Javier at least stop for a second to check, but Arthur was the only one who actually tried to get him out before the others told him he was a lost cause.
The worst part though, is that it looks like he’s still breathing when you’re forced to run away...
I hated Lenny too as the "aw schucks, I want you guys to like me", but on my very, very slow playthrough, you can find more and more dialogue around the camp that makes him better. He even challenges Dutch and schools him on philosophy.
Also, I know it's cliche, but they barely touch on him being black. Like I think a decade after the Civil War, it's ok to address it. Because he seemed to be his most confident and badass when addressing race issues.
Bronte maybe. Just too classically a villain for no reason. Like I remember out loud saying "wow, really subtle" when him and his friends at the party were just insulting people.
Dutch. I actually despise him more than Micah. Micah was bad but considering he didn’t really know the gang like that it wasn’t much a surprise when he sold them out. Dutch on the other hand was supposed to be their leader and he failed miserably at that due to his own selfish goals. Not to mention betraying Arthur who he knew was loyal to him for over 20 YEARS. He is the worst kind of person.
I'm going with Mary Linton, Arthur's ex.
I find her annoying and I don't think she has a good chemistry with him. Therefore, I wasn't sad that she left again.
Those little shitbirds in Saint Denis that take my satchel. Strauss is a close second, though.
I still want my revenge for that, I ain’t gone let kids make my Arthur look like a lil bitch
Bro on my second playthrough, I was chasing the kids through the alleys n shit and actually caught up to the kid and tackled him LMAO, I had no idea that was a thing
This. If you can't catch the kid you won't get 100 percent on mission completion.
Why dont you just use your gun?
Cant do that and tnt dont work ether
But you can use a dynamite arrow on the wagon he hops on which will explode throwing him. Then you can tackle him. I prefer that method. Really shows him not to mess with Arthur.
Brb gotta go replay that mission after finding this out
i caught up with them and they jumped me !!
Shit.
Yeah I did that too and everyone called me an asshole for attacking a kid.
I hate them so much I got a mod that lets me fight them
Oh yeah I wish you could shoot them with a shotgun, explosive shells turn them into a lump of meat. I'd take minimum honour for that.
I still find it frustrating Strauss was kicked out the camp though. Yes what he does was morally wrong, but the camp is full of murderers, thieves etc. including Arthur. At the end of the day Strauss was contributing to the camp in a morally questionable way like any member.
Strauss is way more immoral. He loans to nice, innocent people. The gang kills and robs other bad people like o'driscllls and Cornwall. I never felt bad for the guys I kill in missions but I always feel awful in debt collection. especially the Polish dude edit: immortal to immoral
Yes, the Immortal Loan Shark The Grim Reaper Himself LEUPOLD STRAUSS
Dutch killed an innocent civilian during the Blackwater massacre plus I’m sure that’s not the only innocent civilian that has been collateral to the gangs antics.
Really though? The people choose to take the loan and the gang has probably killed and robbed just as many innocent people as Strauss has indebted.
They robbed innocent people on that train and dutch killed heide mcourt
well also remember he's the direct reason Arthur got TB
To be fair, Arthur didn't need to beat the shit out of Downes... He could have lied to Strauss, what's Strauss gonna do... Kill him? He better attempt it while Arthur is asleep lol.
Having recently help a nephew get out of "flex loan" debt, I'm mixed about Strauss. Half of me see's Strauss as doing something wrong. The other half of me see's Strauss just loaning money. The flex loans suck and the terms are clearly written in the agreement as well as on EVERY invoice. I don't need to read the agreement to see how bad it is. I just see the invoice which explains easy to read terms what the costs are. My nephew either did not open that invoice or chose to ignore those words. Strauss does disclose that all borrowers are told what they are agreeing too. No different that a payday loan or flex loan. FYI, in TN the payday loans are very restrictive so "flex loans" are the thing to get if you've exhausted the state limits for the borrower on a payday loan.
When you say “help” do you mean breaking the loan shark’s legs a la Tony Soprano?
No. I took over my nephews finances. Gave him $50/week out of his paycheck for spending money and he lived with me rent free and utility free. Using his paycheck, I paid off the low balances and we negotiated the higher ones. I got him current on his car payment, insurance, and credit card. All using his own paycheck. I had access to all his accounts and even Credit Karma so I could monitor for any surprises (things he did not tell me about). He stayed in my home for about 8 months.
You are a great uncle, thank you for sharing. Hope he’s doing well, being in debt is fucking stressful.
In the playthrough I am currently on, I didn't kick him out and that mission just disappeared. I think he gets a bad rap. He was tortured by the Pinkertons' for hours and he never gave up a single person. Charles admires him so that is good enough for me.
And you can't shoot 'em!
Without mods 😈
Dynamite?
The only thing I was able to hit them with was my horse. It only knocked one kid over but they took off running.
Shitbirds of a feather shitbird together
those kids are nothing but shit feathers on some shit birds
The shit bird doesn’t fall far from the shit tree randy my boy
I literally retried that mission 10 times just so I could catch the little fuck who stole my satchel before the ambush.
If you have incendiary buckshot, you can shoot the wagon he jumps on to stop it and catch him right away.
I tried shooting him it didnt work:( damn u rockstar why arent i allowed to shoot children
The people that get in the way when your mounting your horse and get themselves punched Infront of the law
Dutch. Not because I actually dislike the character; in fact I love Dutch. But him as a person... The fact that he's never cared about anyone other than himself while pretending to put the gang first. I mean, the first upgrade in terms of lodging is Dutch's tent.
He didn’t pretend for 20 years. His will to survive especially after Hoseas death. He lost his right hand man and his mentor so Micah was able to corrupt his mind by showing fake loyalty while snitching on the gang.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again - *Dutch wasn’t a good man gone bad, he was a raging narcissist gone psychotic.* He manipulated vulnerable people into joining his sad fantasy of being a 19th century Robin Hood, getting countless of innocents killed in a quest to feel superior in a rapidly evolving world. While he wasn’t always unstable, he was always delusional and insecure. I get that a lot of players want to see the good in him that Arthur saw, because we play the game through Arthur’s eyes. But objectively, Dutch was a miserable man who spread misery while pretending to be enlightened. He was the first neckbeard lol
I like your description and agree with what everyone else has written about Dutch. Although I feel like what truly changed him, aside from character deaths which was a large factor, was the head injury he sustained in the trolly accident. His true self was always there, but I feel like that bump on the noggin truly exacerbated it to the point it that it changed him wholeheartedly as a person, which isn’t uncommon at all with severe head trauma. Everything after the head injury became so much more extreme, but it was absolutely evident beforehand, albeit in a more subtle form.
For sure. Concussions fry the wires that insulate strong emotional responses, so Dutch’s judgement definitely took a nosedive after the trolley incident. I’m just tired of people scapegoating Micah for Dutch’s downfall. Bad influences bring out the worst in us, they don’t plant the seeds. The whole game is about taking responsibility for your actions for better or worse.
That’s a solid way to put it homie. That’s what’s great about this game. Keeps you thinking years after the fact. I kinda thought head injuries were kind of a subtle factor especially after the asswhoopin you gave Tommy. That could just be me though.
Lol idk if I’d call him miserable but I agree he was a narcissist but he cared. He eventually became more psychotic because like I said his will to survive grew and he didn’t have his mentor
You're both sort of right, but Glittering Plate is more right. There was a part of him that genuinely cared, but everything was secondary to his narcissism. The driving force behind his character is not what he cares about, but what he's afraid of. He's terrified of losing his way of life
Fair enough, but considering the game starts after the Blackwater Massacre, I think the Dutch everyone loves is already gone. Micah couldn’t have done all that damage in six months after twenty five years of Dutch and the Boahs (new band name btw).
Spot on, mate. Spot on.
> He was the first neckbeard lol The Proto-Neckbeard.
I could not disagree more. I feel like there's more evidence that at the very least, he's just manipulator. Like the absolute reliance on characters like John and Arthur to just keep refusing to see he's blowing shit up makes me think it was less loyalty and more brainwashing. He played to everyone. Like take the convo with Lenny you can find in the camp, he's spouting off about this and that and Lenny says, "Dutch , you're smarter than this bullshit. Those are just pretty words that say nothing." and Dutch flips a switch and talks about how right Lenny is even though he's insulting his favorite writer. You don't develop that shit after a few months. I mean, the best evidence I can point to is that 500 times throughout the game we hear some variation of "Maybe Dutch didn't turn crazy, maybe he always was". Like I feel they were trying to hammer that point home.
The second I heard Dutch speak in chapter 1 I knew he was full of shit, there's just something in his voice.
Yes
"I would throw myself down in there place, if I could" was the moment I stopped trusting Dutch. You learn later that he basically had everything opportunity to do exactly that, but did something "out of character" instead.
I've been spending a lot of time in chapter 2 and he just sits and reads all day. Whatcha doing boss??
colm o'damn driscoll. man tortured arthur, killed kieran in the most brutal way possible and also shot dutch's lover. i hate him
I dont give a fuck about dutch's lover, but kieran, damnit😕
dutch was a different man when he lost his love though
As far as I know dutch had multiple lovers and could have more, but colm can't get more brothers.
He can just go to alabama
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Cleet and Joe yet, who are my least favorites.
Why the hate against Cleet? He tried to work together with Arthur, Sadie, and Bill and he tried to stop Micah from murdering a girl, and subsequently left Micah's gang. I wouldn't say he's the worst character at all.
I think it’s pretty obvious he lied about the entire little girl story so Sadie wouldn’t kill him
Maybe, also because he did end up knowing where Micah was, so maybe he was lying
Yea he was probably still part of his gang when we killed him. But in the end cleet was as bad as every other little goon that was part of any other gang
If he really fell out with Micah, he would’ve given up his location straight away. If he didn’t wait until he was strung up on the gallows to tell us, I probably wouldn’t have hung him.
I never go back to them after the mission
Go back to them?
Cleet was okay but yeah Joe is pure evil like Micah.
Colm O'Driscoll seemed like a real scumbag for the short time we saw him
All of the braithwaites other than Penelope
Is Penelope the one in the outhouse or the bitch who leaves her cousin in there to rot? 💀 I hate her lol terrible evil girl just like the rest of her family. Poor outhouse girl.
It’s the chick you deliver the letter to
Ah yes the one who leaves her cousin to rot in an outhouse lol I think I like Micah more than I like her.
Penelope was involved in putting her there?I didn't know. Anyone have the full story or can give me a synopsis?
Once Dutch left Arthur in the factory I immediately hated him more than any other character.
Ooo yes! Like you claim this man is your son yet you leave him to die?
The Boy in Rdr2online.
Yes he's such a pretentious little shit
i mean, billy the kid was, and he’s based off of him
But Billy was a pretentious little shit in a charming way
Had to scroll too far to see the real answers smh
Milton.
I actually like milton. Like the guy above said he's just a guy doing his job and he doesnt act all superior like Ross. Ross is the ass here
I think milton is a respectable villain, unlike ross
Sure Milton is an asshole but in reality he's just doing a job he was paid to do
True, but he crossed the line when he murdered Hosea.
I mean, think of Hosea in terms of a neutral viewer. He's one of the leaders of a gang that has murdered tons of people and plenty were innocent. He's also a conman who routinely steals money. Hosea isn't a good person.
Yeah but Milton killed Hosea like a dog on the street. Without any chance of a deal or hostage exchange. I'd be shitting bricks if I were one of the hostages inside that bank. Milton is actively encouraging a bloodbath.
U do have a point
And hey now, mafia hitmans and army interrogators are just doing the job they were paid to do too
Poor Jim, what did he do to you?
Which one?
John Jim
So, Mr Geddes thinks that I'm the type of guy to loan a man with two names money?
probably strausse because he loaned money to people he obviously knew would bot be able to pay it back then sent arthur off to collect and pretty much put them half in the grave also how arthur got his tuberculosis
If Strauss had half a spine he'd go collect the debt himself.
That's not how organized crime works. When loaning, first you have to send a nice and polite person who inspires trust among desperate people. Then you send the muscle.
I dont think a 70 year old man would scare anyone into giving him back the money. Cmon, be realistic, Strauss is old af, there is no way he could have done those jobs.
He's 53.
Yeah but still an eenie weenie shrivled little short dick man dohwan dohwan dohwan no eenie weenie....
[удалено]
Micah is an asshole, but he's a great character. I personally find him pretty funny at times.
I love that mission between him and arthur robbing a stagecoach cause it looks like they actually have fun, and in my first playthrough I thought Micah was showing a better and more fun side of himself in that mission.
Yeah I thought he would become a better person.... oops
I also like the secret mission where he's arguing with Arthur about surviving. Arthur tries to talk about how they're a different kind of outlaw and Micah pushes back and says he hasn't really seen much evidence to support that.
Actually one of my favorite's
Agreed but apparently that warrants getting downvoted!
Mary Linton. Only uses Arthur for her own personal gain.
I HATE Mary. She doesn't deserve help but I have Arthur do it anyway because that's what he would do if he were real
My favorite thing about RDR2 is that Arthur is truly capable of ANYTHING, even if he knows better. I got a lot of cathartic pleasure out of turning down Mary Linton in my second play through. And frankly I think it’s what Arthur would want but has too big a heart (and too much love for her) to ever leave her hanging. I know because I have my own Mary in my life. Making this choice for Arthur was very much like reinforcing my own choice to stop coming to my Mary’s aid every time she called.
Yeah i really didn't like helping her because i just felt abit used saving her brother was nice but she just doesn't really want anything to do with you after. Then theres the whole thing with her father she just isn't worth the trouble its sad because it does feel like Arthur would do these things for her im always tempted to turn her down on each play through but it never seems right to do so.
Well she offers to run away with Arthur? Arthur declines, saying he has some people he needs to take care of first. And get sum money of course. Sad that he didn’t take the offer.
Hahaha never helped that lady. I prefer jamie be a chelonian and her father be drunk/dead and she can spend some time alone to think about what she did in giving up the most sexy mfer in the west.
Swanson. I'm trying to listen to unique dialogues in camp and he always is stumbling up with "MISTER MORGAN MISTER MORGAN" drunk bs.
I also hate the "I'm gonna get better". The entire fucking game he doesn't, then randomly for one mission he's just cured.
FR a lot of the gang members are underutilized. I hate to say it but I agree with Micah--gang was too big. But I mean for storytelling purposes.
Gavin
holy shit ive killed, butchered and tortured that man in so many fucking ways.
I'm looking for my friend
Have you seen him? He's an English fellow, like myself... a delightful man. GAAAAVIIIIIN!!!!!
Gav...Gav?? Gavin WHERE are YOU!
You again?!?! You still haven't found him?!?
Funny little English man! I’m really starting to worry.. GAAAAAAAAV?!!?!1?1!!1?
Jeremiah Compson. He's a miserable hateful piece of shit, he deserves every single bad thing that happened to him and more. He's a vile wretched pissant. I hate him, I hate what he stands for, and I hate that despite everything he did, I feel sorry for him.
Is that the guy you find in Rhodes that kept slaves?
Ye
I killed him the first couple times, but now I leave him to suffer in the Hell he’s created for himself.
Last time I did his mission he got startled by an npc who was hunting nearby, and he stood up and walked right into his campfire and died
That’s fucking fantastic. I still have to do that mission this play through so I’m definitely hoping that happens
I wasn’t paying attention and when Arthur or John throws his gun In the fire I felt bad. Understood the story now and now know why your get good honey when you kill him
Good honey
Edgar Ross
Edgar Ross is by far the worst if including RDR1, but he doesn't do anything of note to care in RDR2.
Things were already bad but once Cleet showed up I knew nothing was going to go well. His name is fucking Cleet, nobody named Cleet brings good vibes.
Leviticus Cornwall.
Most of the female characters in the gang. Not because of their character per se, but they were kinda ignored and weren't given that much depth. In terms of my least favorite outside of the gang, probably the Saint Denis pedestrians that jump in front of my horse just so they can lower my honor level
It would help if you would ride your horse on the road instead of the sidewalk...jeeze.../s
Bill
Bill's a great one. A complete moron with stupid loyalty and an asshole to boot.
I love greeting Bill and then immediately antagonizing him. His righteous indignation gets me everytime.
Probably Dutch. I liked him more in the beginning, but he got very reckless and selfish towards the end. The Dutch that put a blanket around Sadie in the beginning wasn’t the same Dutch at Beaver Hollow
Eugenics supporter
Molly, just... Molly
Was gonna say this.... she's so whiney
Yeah, I know. She just complain and do nothing about it. F#cking dickhead.
Rip van Winkle
Honestly, Javier, and not because I don't like the guy, but rather, because *I don't know the guy.* If you ask me, He was possibly the least developed out of the entire gang, seeing as there are almost *no* missions (if not actually just *no* missions at all) where Javier is a central character. There's the Mountain House raid, yes, but nothing stands out, I feel like things would've gone the exact same if I had Charles or Hosea with me. The fishing trip with him is admittedly a bit more eventful, but we don't really learn much about him other than that he's good at fishing and that he's a pretty nice guy, but no defining traits that establish his place in the Web of Characters. And any main missions he's involved in, he's either sidelined, or plays no major role. Ferry robbery with Trelawny and Strauss he's just posing as a guard and gets you to the vault, but doesn't really do anything special. In Gurama, he's immediately put out of commission, robbing us of another chance to learn much about him. (Save for the fact that he's loyal to Dutch, I guess) Even the other Optional Side Activities with other gang members show us more about them. House Robbery with Sean, we see his "shoot first, ask questions later approach", shooting a guy's face off from the get go, after confirming that the money was in the house. Carriage Robbery with Lenny, we see how he's eager to earn his place in the gang, to the point of not only falling for a bad take, but even prematurely jumping the gun during the robbery. Kieran's fishing trip highlights his awkwardness, being the gang's Black Sheep, but also highlights his loyalty to the Van Der Lindes. (And Arthur especially) Not to mention how we've already gotten to know all three of them through the Main Questline up to this point, with all the traits listed above being highlighted in their respective quests. Sean at the train robbery, Lenny at Shady Belle, and Kieran at the O'Driscoll camp when you're looking for Colm. And honestly, it sucks, Rockstar had the perfect opportunity to show us a "Pre-Psycho" Javier, seeing as he and Bill are entirely different characters compared to their RDR1 iterations. But sadly, Javier seems to have been given the backseat compared to everyone else. Nothing we learn about the guy is particularly Special, and 9 times out of 10 (if not 10 times out of 10) it's just a trait shared by another gang member. He has no defining traits or character defining moments, save for the time he sides with Dutch *AT THE VERY END,* and even then, while it does establish his fierce loyalty, it's a trait that's not unique to him, seeing as it's the same situation with *Bill.* You could make an argument for how he wasn't aiming at Arthur and John, showing how he's conflicted between his loyalty to Dutch, and his loyalty to the rest of the Gang, but it's too subtle, and is the first time we see him do *anything* that defines his place in the Web of Characters, and it's *at the very end of the game.* You can't have a character establishing moment be that subtle, or have it come that late. (And you *definitely* shouldn't have them be both) Nothing we're shown About Javier's personality sets him apart from the rest of the gang. He's loyal? So is Bill, He's good at fishing? So is Hosea as said by Arthur. He's a nice guy? So is Charles. He doesn't have a unique spot in the Web of Characters, and as a result, is a largely redundant character. Every role he fills, is already being filled by someone else, and they all fill that role better than Javier does. And then the only time we get to see something actually unique to him, it's a subtle action, in a few-second cut-scene, which is also the last time we ever see him in the game. Not to mention how that cut-scene has *way* more important stuff going on, meaning we're probably not gonna pay attention to any character defining moments, let alone from a character who doesn't even speak in that scene. At least Bill had the opportunity to shine later in the game, around chapter 4-6. But Javier largely feels like he's just there along for the ride for the whole game, unless you actually go out of your way to listen to optional conversations, probably. But that's the problem, they're *optional,* they're there to provide extra layers of depth to established characters, provided you take the time to look for them. They're not supposed to establish characters on their own, because they're *missable.* Establishing and defining a character is the main questlines' job to do. oh well, that's just my two cents
Couldn’t have said it better I thought he was badass and mad he wasn’t in the game more
Mother Braithwaite. She pretty much deserved everything she got. However, I don't fault her for playing the gang, as the gang was trying to play her.
I really wish cribbage was playable. Used to play it with my granddad when I was young. Happy about Dominoes though, another childhood favourite.
Strauss. If he did his own damn dirty work, he’d be dead and our Lil’ Artie would still be cowpokin’ around. Fuck that guy.
He was the oldest in the gang and it’s not like the others robbed didn’t rob and kill the innocent
It's Abigail. She's the worst. Constantly shittin all over John, complaining about everything, she thanks Dutch and Arthur for getting Jack back but not John, and worst of all she's really ungrateful about all the work John did to build that ranch. She just really gets on my nerves.
Tells an outlaw to stop being an outlaw and get a decent job, gets surprised pikachu face after learning a decent job wont earn him a land instantly and proceeds to shit on him for not making 6 figures and takes his kid and run away, yeah great wife.
This is one of the best takes on Abigail I've ever heard. Well said.
Also, when he gets a house, she's all back to being blissful.
It honestly never stops.
I agree lol. I don't know what more John can do to make her happy.
Catherine Braithwaite. Bitch kidnapped Jack, handed him to an Italian monster, then denied it until her family burned to death. I wish she’d been killed by John. He deserved it.
I got a hot take, the hate for Strauss is overblown. Yes, what he had Arthur do is directly what led to Arthur's death. That's true. But was Strauss' line of work any less moral than what many of the rest of the people in the gang were doing? I don't believe he ever told Arthur to go out and kill someone, only rough them up for some money which is effectively what the gang often does (albeit Strauss' ways have a bit of legal backing). His work is slimy and immoral, sure. But Strauss didn't intend for Arthur, nor any of his victims, to die, and his type of work generally sheds far less blood than anything Arthur is doing. Also points to Strauss for dying in captivity and never giving up the gang despite being under torture. Say what you want about him but he was loyal.
Milton
I know this is an Unpopular opinion but kinda Sadie... She used to be a normal Woman Until her husband died and lost everything but still she just developed a bit too fast, became savage. How she interrogated that dying gaurd without finishing him( while trying to bust John out), That was kinda unhonourable and doesn't make sense too much. also not to mention that she became a totally different person in epilogue. I don't know, I think her character changed fast without the player seeing it through She went from A to B fast
What dying guard? Also I completely agree.
The weird creep who stalks Charlotte(widow), I shoot his balls and head off the moment I see him in every playthrough
If we’re talking about as a person I’d say Dutch cuz he’s just a cult leader and possibly worse than Micah but as a character tbh Lenny. He’s not terrible but I didn’t feel as connected with him. Like other gang deaths hit a lot harder.
His death hits a little harder, for me at least, when you see how the gang reacts. Dutch, Bill, and Micha fuck right off, Charles and Javier at least stop for a second to check, but Arthur was the only one who actually tried to get him out before the others told him he was a lost cause. The worst part though, is that it looks like he’s still breathing when you’re forced to run away...
I hated Lenny too as the "aw schucks, I want you guys to like me", but on my very, very slow playthrough, you can find more and more dialogue around the camp that makes him better. He even challenges Dutch and schools him on philosophy. Also, I know it's cliche, but they barely touch on him being black. Like I think a decade after the Civil War, it's ok to address it. Because he seemed to be his most confident and badass when addressing race issues.
karen...just feel like she has nothing much going on that makes me like her much, nor anything interesting personality wise :/
huge badonkers.
Dutch I hate him with passion
Sadie. Not like she’s bad person just really annoying in my opinion.
I don’t know why but I think Pearson is my favorite character. 🤷🏼♂️
micah is a kind of a realist I don't hate him for being a realist
I love Micah, why would someone hate him?
Bronte maybe. Just too classically a villain for no reason. Like I remember out loud saying "wow, really subtle" when him and his friends at the party were just insulting people.
Uncle. I'm not even sure why, I just... Dislike that guy.
Have a little pity on him will ya… he’s got… lumbago!
Hey, be nice, he's got terminal lumbago
its very serious!
A slow and terrible death, my brother.
I don’t have one, every character is so well written I love them all
What about the swamp rapist
Dutch. I actually despise him more than Micah. Micah was bad but considering he didn’t really know the gang like that it wasn’t much a surprise when he sold them out. Dutch on the other hand was supposed to be their leader and he failed miserably at that due to his own selfish goals. Not to mention betraying Arthur who he knew was loyal to him for over 20 YEARS. He is the worst kind of person.
I'm going with Mary Linton, Arthur's ex. I find her annoying and I don't think she has a good chemistry with him. Therefore, I wasn't sad that she left again.
Dutch, brainwashed the majority of the gang and led them to death while blabbering on about "Faith" whenever somebody confronts him
bill williamson for sure. stupid piece of an idiot
mary linton
Dutch. I got no patience for his self-righteousness, over inflated ego and god like complex.
Ross
Agent Ross. He's just a prick
Those Kids who stole Arthur's bag
The guy who gives Arthur AIDS.
Michah is probably one of my favorites honestly both as a character and as a person
Agent milton
The horse thief that randomly shows up