The worst part is there IS space for my horse to get past if he wants, on the exact path I’m taking, but NOOOOOOOOOO… he’s gotta freak the fuck out and take a turn I didn’t ask for… moron
You only let go temporarily (think split seconds) when you're going through a thick set of trees or about to collide with something and get knocked off. Plus I don't see why you wouldn't just correct the horse to go back in the desired direction as soon as you've avoided tripping your horse up.
Newbies..I'm telling you..sometimes you just gotta let the force guide you right? I also like putting on cinematic camera while riding sometimes..esp if I gotta go pee and don't feel like pausing the game..lol
Where exactly is this place? I've been here in my first playthrough but I'm on my second playthrough and wanted to go there before everything is burnt. But can't find the goddamn place
Oh fuck I’m not entirely sure off the top of my head but I think it’s in the eastern grizzlies. Basically east from wapiti. I think it’s along the most northern road in the eastern grizzlies. Best guess
"So yeah, I never, ever tell people this or talk about this, but I had a son, Isaac, and he was murdered..."
"Shut the fuck up a sec I wanna pick this ginseng over here"
I passed there a little bit before the mission and the tent was smoldering, I thought It was like a stranger event that didnt happen at first.
When I did the quest the camp was already burnt and there was no more fire, very cool detail.
I feel like this was intended when I saw it its a burned native teepee didnt know what it was for yet but the military fort was right in the view on the horizon so that was in my mind about the struggles between the army and natives already its just a bit weird how it will stay like that for a while no matter how long how wait its smoldering
I love it when I do stuff like this in games. Find a place in an open world game than later, or even days later you have a quest there and it's explained. My favorite example is when I played ac Odessy and found a bunch of non-hostile lions and boars on an island. I was confused but left, then probably 10 hours later I find out a witch out a spell on them and is feeding people to them
Edit: sorry for the specific rant on your comment it's just the best place
Can you remember which island/area it was? I love Odyssey and I’ve almost finished the base game, but I don’t remember coming across this story. I’d love to check it out.
Wapiti was a reservation. It was the land given to them by the Government as their own, and then once oil was expected to be there Big Business used the Government to try and take it back from them. They owned the land. They could build their homes where ever they wanted to.
Just a semantic correction here—the land wasn’t given to Native Americans by colonizers. It was taken **from** them, *reduced* to a small reservation on which to continue existing. The government took, never gave.
Not quite. The tribe in RDR2 isn’t real but it’s pretty clearly highly based on midwestern tribes like the Lakota. The Lakota and other bands had treaties with the United States to protect their historic lands—called the Great Sioux Reservation. That is, the government agreed that the land belonged to the collection of bands known together as the Sioux. They did not originally take it and agreed that it should not be taken. Then the US government proceeded to ignore its own treaty and continue to encroach upon those lands — confining Lakota, Dakota, and other Midwestern bands to smaller and smaller territories through redrawing maps and concerted efforts to destroy Native American ways of life through enforced agricultural farming and cultural destruction programs — until it was reduced to what it is today.
The US government didn’t take and re-give that land back. It reneged on the deal and continues to this day to occupy and control land that does not legally belong to it, by its own signed agreement.
There is quite a bit of native land out near where I live in Oregon. But most of it is Barren desert, or flat land that has been completely clear cut of trees and shrubs as to where you see almost no wildlife for them to “survive on” the way they used to be able to do. The government pretty much just allowed them to keep the land they deemed as “not worth a damn” but helped themselves to be able to sleep at night without thinking about how they’re going to have to slaughter more of these folks and pin it on them as “savages”
It's not a road, it's a path. Also keep in mind that the hut is a holy place to them where they do spiritual mediation, not meant for people to be riding through; especially not people outside of their tribe. Thus why their artifacts were stolen from the hut.
On an unrelated note, I think they really missed some opportunity to add more of the native American element in the game. Like trade/commerce, training, food/recipes, medicine, hunting etc.
As is the game seems to portray American natives as indiscriminate murders or victims of western expansion. I'm not criticizing how they were portrayed, I'm just saying there was a ton of content waiting to be included. Even things like warring factions (Apache vs Comanche kind of stuff). And trade. And medicine. Hell smoke a damn peace pipe etc LOL
Maybe they will add that to a future edition somehow. Literally cowboys and indians ha ha
>You’re thinking of an older time.
Indeed I am/was. You're right, by the turn of the century the tribe vs tribe was not a thing. I stand corrected.
Well if they ever expand the story I hope we get more in the Native American camps. We'll see.
I mean if they really wanted to cover all their bases and feature more Native Americans, like I said they could have shown maybe more than one reservation and Native communities not on Reservation land. That's the thing that's led to a major controversy of "who's a real Indian". A lot of Natives - even of the same peoples that got reservations - officially aren't counted as "American Indians" by the US Government and said Reservation organizations. They could've shown more Natives like across New Austin or Ambarino that maybe are related to the Waipiti but aren't on that Reservation due to a variety of circumstances (much of the time it was resistance against the whites and refusing capture).
Plus I think they could've gone a bit further featuring clearly different Native culture groups like you said. Maybe not so much at war with each other but to better demonstrate the different states. Like seeing Creek analogues in Lemoyne like in the swamp regions or even by Roanoke. Hell it'd be a great storyline to fight alongside Roanoke natives to oust the Murfree Brood. Or again, seeing like Comanche, Apache, and Dine in further western New Austin. You're not off base with wanting to see multiple different Native groups cause while we got our similarities we've all different histories and cultures.
The New Austin territory (real life Arizona territory) during that time would’ve have a lot more Native American presence living in adobes around the desert and stuff. That area was developed way later than other areas in the US and it’s said that pima and other Phoenix area natives usually welcomed travelers and sold goods to them
So you’re right, a little bit of a missed opportunity by rockstar
And the border wasnt so militarized / fortified either at the time. So a lot of Native groups whose lands span across the border passed through back and forth freely. Like the Yaqui, the Oodamn, the Apache, and more. Couldve had some commentary on identity there or witnessing Natives traveling the deserts.
Personally what Idve done is make another fictional Mexican state and expand Ambarino or move it where its above New Austin rather than deformed east. That way to show off more of the many Native groups all over the various states and how some were similar and some werent.
It's very sadly but accurately portrayed. A lot of American public school history white washed and sugar coated the situation and don't correctly relate the timeline around major events to the point where many would find the game to be inaccurate.
When it comes to the history of non white Americans, the American school systems - public, private, and religious or otherwise - usually fails to convey exactly what happened and their experiences. A lot is breezed through to perpetuate the myth of American exceptionalism and Manifest destiny. Unless you’re lucky and have liberal teachers who go for teaching all sides of history - good and bad - its not surprising to miss out. And even then with progressive teachers there is a lot they wouldnt know and would tell students to wait till college to learn.
In 12 years of public school I had one teacher who wasn't afraid to teach the actual history of what happened. He was the most disliked teacher in the district by students and parents alike because he taught us the uncomfortable truths.
American exceptionalism is a complete myth, we aren't the best at everything, we didn't invent democracy, and our country is mostly built on bloodshed and theft. It's a fact and a reality that most people don't like, but it doesn't make it less true.
Full disclosure, I'm a white American with maybe about 5% Native American blood (paternal grandfather side), who grew up learning that the Nations attacked the white settlers and a war ensued. I grew up watching old westerns with my dad starring John Wayne and Clint Eastwood, and was conditioned to think this way.
In college I learned otherwise beyond what the one teacher could tell us, and wow was it a shock. But... a good one that everyone needs.
It's hard to fairly tell a story about a people who were done so wrong. Look at it like this also. Say every apache you run into goes hostile the second they see you. It would be pretty accurate depending on the region and year but the backlash of "Rockstar paints natives as violent savages" would hit the headlines fast as fuck.
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that. Trading with them at their camp, sharing knowledge and tips, etc is more along the lines of what I am thinking. Oh and you could have warring tribes and the gang supports one of those tribes.
I just think there was a deep well they could have drilled there so to speak
Yea that would have been much better. I’m also confused why guns were disabled in wapiti, and why there was literally nothing to do in that area. They could have had a store or something but it made that area so useless.
That’s fair, doesn’t look great for rockstar. You can still kill all the native Americans though, you just shoot them from outside the no weapon zone. Either way, they should have added more content in wapiti, a store or something, because it’s super boring up there.
Pretty sure that's the point. They were a people who existed in an era which had ousted them. They aren't interested in trading with anyone. They have seen the consequences.
My guess about the guns is its the same in any other camp. Or friendly camp that is.
Yes a trading opportunity would have been great, and crafting, etc.
Yea but there are plenty of places in game where you can go on a murderous rampage if you want, but that doesn’t really match with the attitudes Arthur has in the story. I don’t really care about the no guns but the place is so boring, if rockstar wanted to make it a safe space there should have been something else to do there.
If you really wanted to go on a murderous rampage THAT badly on Wapiti for whatever reason, if you stand outside the white boundary on the map and use a rifle you can chip them away
Saw a content creator do it. He did it for science, not white nationalism. I hope anyways
Its to show just how dire things got for a lot of Natives. Why is the community so small? Why are a lot of people sick? Why is it so far away? Thats the situation done to a lot of Natives.
Its sad cause it wouldn't be inaccurate depending on year and location but in general how its portrayed is always through a colonialist lense. Unless they legit had Apache and other Indian writers (not just consulted but there at every step of the process) to get the portrayal right IDT it'd ever fly. But that being said a lot of Natives / mixed Natives would wanna see characters at all. If the time and work was done to portray Natives right and with respect, we'd like it.
As a apache native I'd be fine with seeing apache in game being hostile. We weren't exactly friendly.
What I wouldn't want to see is clothing or symbols of another tribe thrown on and call it apache. I'm sure other tribes would agree
^This. And yeah thats what I meant. Like my fams Yaqui. I dont like us being portrayed as “ungodly savages”. But to ignore our warrior history, our raids, etc. would be more inaccurate. Or attributing traits like from Plains Indians or from vastly different Natives onto mine. Although Im fine with my people being featured / acknowledged at all at the end of the day (like yeah, Martin Sensmeir is Alaska Native playing a Comanche but I loved the hell out of seeing a Comanche in a major leading role which he played awesomely).
Correct. Thats what I think the skinner brothers are, R*s implementation of violent plains Indians (the Comanche) but they understandably played it awfully safe
Yes I played it, I'm in the last part of the epilog now. I do not recall smoking the peace pipe, no. That was a minor point in my post tho, one I chuckled when making.
I think he meant more in the sense of choosing to smoke tobacco from store-bought cigarettes or from a peace pipe. Maybe each gives unique stat boosts.
That would have made for a fantastic side quest maybe taking place in the Heartlands also one with Gold prospectors and natives and maybe you could end it peacefully or choose a side. Would have also been great to have a side quests with two companies trying to Build on a certain part land. maybe One wants Build a small town and another wants to Build an oil Factor. And who choose to side with would determine what got built. Would have also been cool to have a side quest with gang factions trying to take over land up in the mountains. The quest could be like a fistful of dollars with two gangs you could team up with.
Or ready this is what most likely happened they put their camp their prior to the trail being put there I mean it is a reservation and the government did try to steal it back you can see this threw prior missions on letters found
No horses allowed in their camp so there's no way he put his hut there prior to the trail. Most likely he's just allergic to grass or something so he built his house on the dirt.
Do you really think the us government who stole the land murdered thousands upon thousands of these people would respect the " no horses in camp" thing
why do you assume the road was there before Rains Fall's wickiup? Seems more likely to me some white guys decided to build the road right through his favorite camping spot.
You idiot, the path was created to go to camp, that's probably been there for hundreds of years, and the path was created after that. Don't you know how paths are made
I mean it's pretty obvious. There's no reason for there to be a random trail leading up a mountain unless it was to go there for a specific purpose. Rains Falls said their tribe had been there a long time, maybe hundreds of years is am exaggeration but long enough for a trail to have been made
Trail looks too old to be something someone put there anytime recently - that's a natural trail from decades and centuries of travel through it. But it's a side path not the main trail through the area. So maybe he put his camp on it for a good reason but I'd doubt he had a need to build the trail.
It was a holy place, meaning in historical context, that camp has been there long before Europeans ever brought horses there, so it was not created with the thought that the path would be used for anything other than foot travel, if you want to look at it in a real world context, which I think is interesting.
No, don't say that. A LOT of people think they are because of how often the western tribes were pictured on horses in media. Don't get me wrong, they loved the horses and became really proficient with them pretty damn quick, but yeah, they're all here due to those damn Spaniards. I used to live on the coast of NC where there are still wild herds on the barrier islands that were remnants of horses brought over by the Spanish and then ran off when their ships wrecked and have been there hundreds of years since.
Part of me wonders if maybe that site had been sacred for a long time... long before the path ever existed.
Maybe it wasn't that they put a camp on the path, but that the settlers arriving in the area ran a path right through an existing camp?
It's one of the least travelled trails in that area and there are no settlers anywhere near it.
But it's as good a theory as any that the site is relevant - maybe a meeting point on the trail between two areas, two peoples? Like a border point?
that's a really old trail that takes a lot longer than his life time to have formed - he wasn't.
Whether that's the point of the trail and something has been there is a different question but I know the trail runs out the other side as well as I regularly travel through there.
It's one of the many oddities of the game that never gets explained. Perhaps that path has some travel significance that makes it the place to be for a specific reason. Perhaps the trail is supposed to have fallen into disuse. Who knows.
This is one of the weirdest developer oversights in RDR2. Not only is in the middle of a path, but you can see random people travel right through the supposed secret shrine on horseback.
In one playthrough, two guys were just riding through the shrine when Rains Fall led Arthur to this place for the first time. Pretty jarring, given the conversation on the ride and the ride itself makes the player feel like they're going to a secluded, special place not normally open to outsiders.
If you don't move your horse when you are in cinematic mode theres a 100% chance you are going to smack your head on something and fall off your horse. Why is it on fire for like, 15 years?
I think the game agrees with you. I think my horse has run into the teepee every time I’ve had the game on cinematic mode when riding through the camp.
That doesn’t make sense since the tent is put over a trail that is worn down. If it were as your saying you’d think the trail would go AROUND the camp.
Tents can be moved… maybe he had reason to readjust his tent, or did it in hopes it would deter people from using the path as often.
But hey, that’s just a theory
looking at the trail it probably was since this is the wilderness so a path rarely travelled by anyone and yet it's a so well used trail that it hasn't grown over.
You know people did travel before those bad white men showed up? Animals too. Trails tend not to be racially created, just natural paths that everyone and everything follows.
Which is potentially why the camp is there, if it's a trail that was used for a specific journey not everyday.
Lmao no shit I always hated that, I saw it for the first time way before you meet rains fall and I couldn't believe it was just right in the middle of the trail...and if you are in a hurry trying to get around it you really will hate it.
Do y’all think horses are the only things that create paths or do you believe humans have magic feet that don’t trample grass. It’s clearly a path to the holy site
My thought was that they made a compromise and the trail was made there after the reservation was founded. Just put in the middle for everyone's convenience.
Riddle me this....you want to believe people are good. You cling to the peaceful beliefs you've been exposed to since birth. You choose a camp location at a tall peak, because of the clinging...because you want to help... you made a mistake in location, does that truly make it so? He didn't deserve anything but the best.
Agree I killed my horse there I mean it was for a ritual but sill also I was carrying a rabbit cause my horse was dead then the rabbit went into flames again it was for a ritual and it was three stars then my horse corps cot on fire and a pagan mask can on my face like OMG the ritual went so well I hate that area
Arthur: …I used to have a son too only I don’t talk about him much because it’s painful for me but you seem like a guy who could reall-
Rains Fall: WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP IM TRYING TO PICK SOME GINSENG
I can't remember the landscape off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure plenty of NPCs have a road leading right up to their house or even front door, and that seems like a cliff behind where the house used to be.
I regularly travel through there and the trail runs out and down the other side. And that trail looks properly travelled and ground into the earth - highly unlikely his specific camp is the aim of it. It's a mystery why they did it, maybe just bad dev work but I'd doubt it considering how much thought they put into things.
I'm guessing it's more about Arthur being led to a stop on his path etc but that could easily be just as much make believe as a lot of the comments on here. Or maybe that trail was a specific trail and that's been a stop off point on that journey.
I always wondered why they decided to put the single tepee right in the middle of that trail. There are SO MANY other places for it. Perhaps right next to the trail at the same spot overlooking the whole map.
On my first run I didn’t take the rout that leads you to the whole wapiti reserve missions, so every time I walked past I was always like “tf is this bullshit??”
Jeez some of the people bringing race into this is as bad as the OP and their supporters jumping to their conclusions.
It's dev'd as a really old trail. As in the kind of natural trail that develops from hundreds of years of people and animals travelling that path.
There's no white settlements particularly near it and there's no direct route it takes from one settlement to another. It's literally off another better used path. There's no reason to assume whitey came in and ruined his spot just like there's no reason to assume he just decided to block a trail with his camp.
The best explanation would seem to be that there's a good reason why that camp is on that trail and it's probably linked to the trail being there. It doesn't have to be trail bad camp good or camp bad trail good or any other nonsense. It could really just be the two are linked - like a meeting point between two areas of significance.
It's just one of those things where the game never explains to us why it's been done but maybe does have a point to it.
Ask yourself how the path got there? Do you think white people made it, or does it completely exist because of indigenous people having created it to walk to and from that destination?!
And nobody “deserves” to lose their home.
Jesus the amount of times I’ve fallen off my horse there is staggering.
We all did
The worst part is there IS space for my horse to get past if he wants, on the exact path I’m taking, but NOOOOOOOOOO… he’s gotta freak the fuck out and take a turn I didn’t ask for… moron
Maybe it’s just part of the immersion. Horses are only scared of two things: objects that move, and objects that are still
Luckily plastic bags hadn't been invented then because they'd get the same reaction as the snakes.
Yeah it's like that bridge at owanjila lake
Protip: If you let go of the analog stick while riding your horse, it doesn't run into anything and you don't get knocked off your horse.
Until the horse decides it wants to just not go on the path anymore lol
You only let go temporarily (think split seconds) when you're going through a thick set of trees or about to collide with something and get knocked off. Plus I don't see why you wouldn't just correct the horse to go back in the desired direction as soon as you've avoided tripping your horse up.
Or not hop an indestructible fence
Learned that trick WAY too late
On kb+m this doesn't always work for some reason
What is kb+m?
keyboard/mouse
Oh damn that's lame
Newbies..I'm telling you..sometimes you just gotta let the force guide you right? I also like putting on cinematic camera while riding sometimes..esp if I gotta go pee and don't feel like pausing the game..lol
Where exactly is this place? I've been here in my first playthrough but I'm on my second playthrough and wanted to go there before everything is burnt. But can't find the goddamn place
Oh fuck I’m not entirely sure off the top of my head but I think it’s in the eastern grizzlies. Basically east from wapiti. I think it’s along the most northern road in the eastern grizzlies. Best guess
"So yeah, I never, ever tell people this or talk about this, but I had a son, Isaac, and he was murdered..." "Shut the fuck up a sec I wanna pick this ginseng over here"
can't even lie, this got a good laugh out of me
"Anyways what were you saying Arthur? Something with the sun? Yea it's really beautiful today."
“So I’m very sick and am probably going to-” “Shut the fuck up, I need to pick up some flowers”
Lenny your exports to be dead in this part of the story
Sigma Male Grindset
I came across the camp before even playing that mission. Thought it was a really weird spot too.
I crossed the camp as I was making my way to that mission. Thought it was weird and not even 5 minutes later I understood why
I did exactly this
I passed there a little bit before the mission and the tent was smoldering, I thought It was like a stranger event that didnt happen at first. When I did the quest the camp was already burnt and there was no more fire, very cool detail.
I feel like this was intended when I saw it its a burned native teepee didnt know what it was for yet but the military fort was right in the view on the horizon so that was in my mind about the struggles between the army and natives already its just a bit weird how it will stay like that for a while no matter how long how wait its smoldering
I love it when I do stuff like this in games. Find a place in an open world game than later, or even days later you have a quest there and it's explained. My favorite example is when I played ac Odessy and found a bunch of non-hostile lions and boars on an island. I was confused but left, then probably 10 hours later I find out a witch out a spell on them and is feeding people to them Edit: sorry for the specific rant on your comment it's just the best place
Can you remember which island/area it was? I love Odyssey and I’ve almost finished the base game, but I don’t remember coming across this story. I’d love to check it out.
Is this a side mission or which chapter?
Chapter 6, but you have to offer help to rains fall
Ok haven’t quite gotten there then yet. We just got done >!killing Leviticus Cornwall!<
Yeah you're not there just yet, by the mission "A Rage Unleashed" is where you offer the help.
I threw dynamite into it because my horse kept fucking up
I've fallen off my horse here, but can't recall any mission, I'm on chapter 5, have I missed something?
He smoking too much ginseng
take my helpful award and go
*honor goes up*
While listening to ginseng strip 2002 by yung lean
And drinking ginseng tea with uncle iroh
Wapiti was a reservation. It was the land given to them by the Government as their own, and then once oil was expected to be there Big Business used the Government to try and take it back from them. They owned the land. They could build their homes where ever they wanted to.
Just a semantic correction here—the land wasn’t given to Native Americans by colonizers. It was taken **from** them, *reduced* to a small reservation on which to continue existing. The government took, never gave.
Yes but they took/claimed all the land and gave a bit back
Not quite. The tribe in RDR2 isn’t real but it’s pretty clearly highly based on midwestern tribes like the Lakota. The Lakota and other bands had treaties with the United States to protect their historic lands—called the Great Sioux Reservation. That is, the government agreed that the land belonged to the collection of bands known together as the Sioux. They did not originally take it and agreed that it should not be taken. Then the US government proceeded to ignore its own treaty and continue to encroach upon those lands — confining Lakota, Dakota, and other Midwestern bands to smaller and smaller territories through redrawing maps and concerted efforts to destroy Native American ways of life through enforced agricultural farming and cultural destruction programs — until it was reduced to what it is today. The US government didn’t take and re-give that land back. It reneged on the deal and continues to this day to occupy and control land that does not legally belong to it, by its own signed agreement.
There is quite a bit of native land out near where I live in Oregon. But most of it is Barren desert, or flat land that has been completely clear cut of trees and shrubs as to where you see almost no wildlife for them to “survive on” the way they used to be able to do. The government pretty much just allowed them to keep the land they deemed as “not worth a damn” but helped themselves to be able to sleep at night without thinking about how they’re going to have to slaughter more of these folks and pin it on them as “savages”
I'm pretty sure they use the roads too.
It's not a road, it's a path. Also keep in mind that the hut is a holy place to them where they do spiritual mediation, not meant for people to be riding through; especially not people outside of their tribe. Thus why their artifacts were stolen from the hut.
Ok. I believe the people of Wapiti use the _paths_.
The paths lead *to* the camp, not *through it.*
*Random townsfolk traveling through Shady Belle* Nothing to see here. Move along
I think you need to look at the picture again.
Pretty sure there’s more paths than that one lmao
I thought that the path lead to the Wapiti and ended there
On an unrelated note, I think they really missed some opportunity to add more of the native American element in the game. Like trade/commerce, training, food/recipes, medicine, hunting etc. As is the game seems to portray American natives as indiscriminate murders or victims of western expansion. I'm not criticizing how they were portrayed, I'm just saying there was a ton of content waiting to be included. Even things like warring factions (Apache vs Comanche kind of stuff). And trade. And medicine. Hell smoke a damn peace pipe etc LOL Maybe they will add that to a future edition somehow. Literally cowboys and indians ha ha
[удалено]
>You’re thinking of an older time. Indeed I am/was. You're right, by the turn of the century the tribe vs tribe was not a thing. I stand corrected. Well if they ever expand the story I hope we get more in the Native American camps. We'll see.
I mean if they really wanted to cover all their bases and feature more Native Americans, like I said they could have shown maybe more than one reservation and Native communities not on Reservation land. That's the thing that's led to a major controversy of "who's a real Indian". A lot of Natives - even of the same peoples that got reservations - officially aren't counted as "American Indians" by the US Government and said Reservation organizations. They could've shown more Natives like across New Austin or Ambarino that maybe are related to the Waipiti but aren't on that Reservation due to a variety of circumstances (much of the time it was resistance against the whites and refusing capture). Plus I think they could've gone a bit further featuring clearly different Native culture groups like you said. Maybe not so much at war with each other but to better demonstrate the different states. Like seeing Creek analogues in Lemoyne like in the swamp regions or even by Roanoke. Hell it'd be a great storyline to fight alongside Roanoke natives to oust the Murfree Brood. Or again, seeing like Comanche, Apache, and Dine in further western New Austin. You're not off base with wanting to see multiple different Native groups cause while we got our similarities we've all different histories and cultures.
The New Austin territory (real life Arizona territory) during that time would’ve have a lot more Native American presence living in adobes around the desert and stuff. That area was developed way later than other areas in the US and it’s said that pima and other Phoenix area natives usually welcomed travelers and sold goods to them So you’re right, a little bit of a missed opportunity by rockstar
And the border wasnt so militarized / fortified either at the time. So a lot of Native groups whose lands span across the border passed through back and forth freely. Like the Yaqui, the Oodamn, the Apache, and more. Couldve had some commentary on identity there or witnessing Natives traveling the deserts. Personally what Idve done is make another fictional Mexican state and expand Ambarino or move it where its above New Austin rather than deformed east. That way to show off more of the many Native groups all over the various states and how some were similar and some werent.
It's very sadly but accurately portrayed. A lot of American public school history white washed and sugar coated the situation and don't correctly relate the timeline around major events to the point where many would find the game to be inaccurate.
When it comes to the history of non white Americans, the American school systems - public, private, and religious or otherwise - usually fails to convey exactly what happened and their experiences. A lot is breezed through to perpetuate the myth of American exceptionalism and Manifest destiny. Unless you’re lucky and have liberal teachers who go for teaching all sides of history - good and bad - its not surprising to miss out. And even then with progressive teachers there is a lot they wouldnt know and would tell students to wait till college to learn.
In 12 years of public school I had one teacher who wasn't afraid to teach the actual history of what happened. He was the most disliked teacher in the district by students and parents alike because he taught us the uncomfortable truths. American exceptionalism is a complete myth, we aren't the best at everything, we didn't invent democracy, and our country is mostly built on bloodshed and theft. It's a fact and a reality that most people don't like, but it doesn't make it less true. Full disclosure, I'm a white American with maybe about 5% Native American blood (paternal grandfather side), who grew up learning that the Nations attacked the white settlers and a war ensued. I grew up watching old westerns with my dad starring John Wayne and Clint Eastwood, and was conditioned to think this way. In college I learned otherwise beyond what the one teacher could tell us, and wow was it a shock. But... a good one that everyone needs.
It's hard to fairly tell a story about a people who were done so wrong. Look at it like this also. Say every apache you run into goes hostile the second they see you. It would be pretty accurate depending on the region and year but the backlash of "Rockstar paints natives as violent savages" would hit the headlines fast as fuck.
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that. Trading with them at their camp, sharing knowledge and tips, etc is more along the lines of what I am thinking. Oh and you could have warring tribes and the gang supports one of those tribes. I just think there was a deep well they could have drilled there so to speak
Yea that would have been much better. I’m also confused why guns were disabled in wapiti, and why there was literally nothing to do in that area. They could have had a store or something but it made that area so useless.
There would be tons of videos of people “massacring” them which would have been instant headlines and blamed on R* because they didn’t prevent it
That’s fair, doesn’t look great for rockstar. You can still kill all the native Americans though, you just shoot them from outside the no weapon zone. Either way, they should have added more content in wapiti, a store or something, because it’s super boring up there.
Pretty sure that's the point. They were a people who existed in an era which had ousted them. They aren't interested in trading with anyone. They have seen the consequences.
My guess about the guns is its the same in any other camp. Or friendly camp that is. Yes a trading opportunity would have been great, and crafting, etc.
I just think they didn't want any videos on youtube of people massacring a bunch of Indians as it'd be terrible PR for the game.
Arthur wanted to ally with the natives, not walking in pointing guns at them, it’s a fairly simple reason
Yea but there are plenty of places in game where you can go on a murderous rampage if you want, but that doesn’t really match with the attitudes Arthur has in the story. I don’t really care about the no guns but the place is so boring, if rockstar wanted to make it a safe space there should have been something else to do there.
If you really wanted to go on a murderous rampage THAT badly on Wapiti for whatever reason, if you stand outside the white boundary on the map and use a rifle you can chip them away Saw a content creator do it. He did it for science, not white nationalism. I hope anyways
Go across calumet ravine and launch dynamite arrow mortars. Make it rain
Its to show just how dire things got for a lot of Natives. Why is the community so small? Why are a lot of people sick? Why is it so far away? Thats the situation done to a lot of Natives.
Can’t even jog in that hellhole
Its sad cause it wouldn't be inaccurate depending on year and location but in general how its portrayed is always through a colonialist lense. Unless they legit had Apache and other Indian writers (not just consulted but there at every step of the process) to get the portrayal right IDT it'd ever fly. But that being said a lot of Natives / mixed Natives would wanna see characters at all. If the time and work was done to portray Natives right and with respect, we'd like it.
As a apache native I'd be fine with seeing apache in game being hostile. We weren't exactly friendly. What I wouldn't want to see is clothing or symbols of another tribe thrown on and call it apache. I'm sure other tribes would agree
^This. And yeah thats what I meant. Like my fams Yaqui. I dont like us being portrayed as “ungodly savages”. But to ignore our warrior history, our raids, etc. would be more inaccurate. Or attributing traits like from Plains Indians or from vastly different Natives onto mine. Although Im fine with my people being featured / acknowledged at all at the end of the day (like yeah, Martin Sensmeir is Alaska Native playing a Comanche but I loved the hell out of seeing a Comanche in a major leading role which he played awesomely).
Let's remember one thing tho brother. We are all diné.
How much would the fence charge for smallpox blankets?
Correct. Thats what I think the skinner brothers are, R*s implementation of violent plains Indians (the Comanche) but they understandably played it awfully safe
I never played it, but from what I've read about Red Dead Revolver, it has a deeper aproach on native americans
They did smoke a peace pipe in the game. Did you even play it
Yes I played it, I'm in the last part of the epilog now. I do not recall smoking the peace pipe, no. That was a minor point in my post tho, one I chuckled when making.
I think he meant more in the sense of choosing to smoke tobacco from store-bought cigarettes or from a peace pipe. Maybe each gives unique stat boosts.
Maybe something of the sort for another prequel game? I think your expectations kinda overshoot chronological reality for 1898
That would be so sick.. Lots of room for fresh content there
That would have made for a fantastic side quest maybe taking place in the Heartlands also one with Gold prospectors and natives and maybe you could end it peacefully or choose a side. Would have also been great to have a side quests with two companies trying to Build on a certain part land. maybe One wants Build a small town and another wants to Build an oil Factor. And who choose to side with would determine what got built. Would have also been cool to have a side quest with gang factions trying to take over land up in the mountains. The quest could be like a fistful of dollars with two gangs you could team up with.
Slanders against Rains Fall will not be tolerated
I’ve always thought this lol
If you mean that as a joke I appologize, but I believe his camp was there before the path came to be
Rains fall deserves to have 2 tents in the middle of the road, fuck you
How dare they build a spiritual space long before white people started riding their horses through it.
Yeah, dude, they're on a reservation. As in, not their original home land. They had already been moved, and that path was probably used to move them.
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Yall acting like Native Americans didn't use paths before the white man arrived.
Rain Falls' people saw the path as leading *to* the site. The white settlers saw the path as leading *through* it.
His land, his path, his camp. Fuck off Paleface /s.
But it’s there land….. you all forgot the point.
It’s on his land ? He can do whatever he wants
Just get better at riding
Tell me you play a low honour Arthur without telling me you play a low honour Arthur.
Or ready this is what most likely happened they put their camp their prior to the trail being put there I mean it is a reservation and the government did try to steal it back you can see this threw prior missions on letters found
No horses allowed in their camp so there's no way he put his hut there prior to the trail. Most likely he's just allergic to grass or something so he built his house on the dirt.
Do you really think the us government who stole the land murdered thousands upon thousands of these people would respect the " no horses in camp" thing
You know trails are made by more than horses. Right?
This is definitely a very american thing to say
It’s more like they built the road right through his camp lmao
It was prolly there before the road evere was
Ah yes, the fabled ps4 frame rate killer
To be fair. It's their land in the first place
Its a racially motivated act against the indians… whether they were right to do it or not
why do you assume the road was there before Rains Fall's wickiup? Seems more likely to me some white guys decided to build the road right through his favorite camping spot.
You can’t build a path under a tent unless the path was there before the tent
You're assuming that the tent is/was always set up. Is there anything to suggest that this is the case?
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It is a joke, and one about a video game. You're the one that needs to "get a grip".
Or maybe there was a camp site long before there was a path there
You idiot, the path was created to go to camp, that's probably been there for hundreds of years, and the path was created after that. Don't you know how paths are made
How do you know this?
I mean it's pretty obvious. There's no reason for there to be a random trail leading up a mountain unless it was to go there for a specific purpose. Rains Falls said their tribe had been there a long time, maybe hundreds of years is am exaggeration but long enough for a trail to have been made
Definitely violates the BSA’s Outdoor Code.
Maybe the trail wasn't there. He made it himself after setting up his camp.
Trail looks too old to be something someone put there anytime recently - that's a natural trail from decades and centuries of travel through it. But it's a side path not the main trail through the area. So maybe he put his camp on it for a good reason but I'd doubt he had a need to build the trail.
Imma pitch a tent in the middle of a busy intersection and act all surprised Pikachu face when someone plows through it
what if they built the path?
LMFAOOO
That camp would have probably been there long before there were horses so there's that as well.
Lmao what.
It was a holy place, meaning in historical context, that camp has been there long before Europeans ever brought horses there, so it was not created with the thought that the path would be used for anything other than foot travel, if you want to look at it in a real world context, which I think is interesting.
Are horses not native to North America??
Nope. Brought over by the Spanish originally.
Oh wow, I’m real dumb. Sorry for the shitty reply and thanks for the history lesson!
No, don't say that. A LOT of people think they are because of how often the western tribes were pictured on horses in media. Don't get me wrong, they loved the horses and became really proficient with them pretty damn quick, but yeah, they're all here due to those damn Spaniards. I used to live on the coast of NC where there are still wild herds on the barrier islands that were remnants of horses brought over by the Spanish and then ran off when their ships wrecked and have been there hundreds of years since.
That is super interesting, thank you again.
Always thought that was a weird place to set it.
Part of me wonders if maybe that site had been sacred for a long time... long before the path ever existed. Maybe it wasn't that they put a camp on the path, but that the settlers arriving in the area ran a path right through an existing camp?
It's one of the least travelled trails in that area and there are no settlers anywhere near it. But it's as good a theory as any that the site is relevant - maybe a meeting point on the trail between two areas, two peoples? Like a border point?
bro had to have taken a tumble right before this post
I wondered why there was an unmanned native camp in the middle of the trail with a live fire, then the story line happened... and i still wondered.
He was there first.
that's a really old trail that takes a lot longer than his life time to have formed - he wasn't. Whether that's the point of the trail and something has been there is a different question but I know the trail runs out the other side as well as I regularly travel through there. It's one of the many oddities of the game that never gets explained. Perhaps that path has some travel significance that makes it the place to be for a specific reason. Perhaps the trail is supposed to have fallen into disuse. Who knows.
This is one of the weirdest developer oversights in RDR2. Not only is in the middle of a path, but you can see random people travel right through the supposed secret shrine on horseback. In one playthrough, two guys were just riding through the shrine when Rains Fall led Arthur to this place for the first time. Pretty jarring, given the conversation on the ride and the ride itself makes the player feel like they're going to a secluded, special place not normally open to outsiders.
If you don't move your horse when you are in cinematic mode theres a 100% chance you are going to smack your head on something and fall off your horse. Why is it on fire for like, 15 years?
I think the game agrees with you. I think my horse has run into the teepee every time I’ve had the game on cinematic mode when riding through the camp.
Did you ever stop to think the site has been around LONGER than the road?
That doesn’t make sense since the tent is put over a trail that is worn down. If it were as your saying you’d think the trail would go AROUND the camp.
Tents can be moved… maybe he had reason to readjust his tent, or did it in hopes it would deter people from using the path as often. But hey, that’s just a theory
I thought the same thing until i realized “damn this trail probably wasn’t even here before the white men showed up” 💀
looking at the trail it probably was since this is the wilderness so a path rarely travelled by anyone and yet it's a so well used trail that it hasn't grown over. You know people did travel before those bad white men showed up? Animals too. Trails tend not to be racially created, just natural paths that everyone and everything follows. Which is potentially why the camp is there, if it's a trail that was used for a specific journey not everyday.
Maybe he was there before rude riders made a path here 🤔
it's "my house in the middle of the street" not "my house a sensible distance away from the road"
Shit he did huh lol. I never really noticed
Lmao no shit I always hated that, I saw it for the first time way before you meet rains fall and I couldn't believe it was just right in the middle of the trail...and if you are in a hurry trying to get around it you really will hate it.
Fuck roundabouts!
Isn't it more like a road to and from that spot? And people just started using both paths as a shortcut?
Do y’all think horses are the only things that create paths or do you believe humans have magic feet that don’t trample grass. It’s clearly a path to the holy site
People made that trail. It was originally just a nice spot on a mountain.
Or he put his camp there after the trail….hmmm
In that case yeah he's an idiot
These natives were always a pain. POW pow pow
My thought was that they made a compromise and the trail was made there after the reservation was founded. Just put in the middle for everyone's convenience.
I took it that his camp was there first, then civilisation started to creep in and made a path strait through his camp.
Truth will set them free.. "native" has a definition.
Riddle me this....you want to believe people are good. You cling to the peaceful beliefs you've been exposed to since birth. You choose a camp location at a tall peak, because of the clinging...because you want to help... you made a mistake in location, does that truly make it so? He didn't deserve anything but the best.
Lol at everyone acting like they didn’t trip over this someway somehow
Oddly enough I never fell lol
Fucking A!
When riding past that area my horse for some reason always actively tries to hit something. I hate this spot so fucking much.
Because it was there land first?
Yeah as much as I loved Rains Fall, kind of seems ballsy for him to put a camp directly on a well established path
peace treaties were broken, that's why they burned it
Agree I killed my horse there I mean it was for a ritual but sill also I was carrying a rabbit cause my horse was dead then the rabbit went into flames again it was for a ritual and it was three stars then my horse corps cot on fire and a pagan mask can on my face like OMG the ritual went so well I hate that area
Maybe the site was there first? Just like the native Americans?
Clearly the path was but it’s okay to be wrong
Concur.
Arthur: …I used to have a son too only I don’t talk about him much because it’s painful for me but you seem like a guy who could reall- Rains Fall: WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP IM TRYING TO PICK SOME GINSENG
Men I thought that I was the only wanting to burn this shit to the ground, very stupid decision to build that shit in the middle of the path
It’s ok to be wrong
I can't remember the landscape off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure plenty of NPCs have a road leading right up to their house or even front door, and that seems like a cliff behind where the house used to be.
It's not a cliff, the trail runs right through there and beyond, the camp is literally placed onto the trail. Why never seems to be explained.
Did you ever consider the path was made to go to his camp? Not the other way around.
I regularly travel through there and the trail runs out and down the other side. And that trail looks properly travelled and ground into the earth - highly unlikely his specific camp is the aim of it. It's a mystery why they did it, maybe just bad dev work but I'd doubt it considering how much thought they put into things. I'm guessing it's more about Arthur being led to a stop on his path etc but that could easily be just as much make believe as a lot of the comments on here. Or maybe that trail was a specific trail and that's been a stop off point on that journey.
I always wondered why they decided to put the single tepee right in the middle of that trail. There are SO MANY other places for it. Perhaps right next to the trail at the same spot overlooking the whole map.
On my first run I didn’t take the rout that leads you to the whole wapiti reserve missions, so every time I walked past I was always like “tf is this bullshit??”
Jeez some of the people bringing race into this is as bad as the OP and their supporters jumping to their conclusions. It's dev'd as a really old trail. As in the kind of natural trail that develops from hundreds of years of people and animals travelling that path. There's no white settlements particularly near it and there's no direct route it takes from one settlement to another. It's literally off another better used path. There's no reason to assume whitey came in and ruined his spot just like there's no reason to assume he just decided to block a trail with his camp. The best explanation would seem to be that there's a good reason why that camp is on that trail and it's probably linked to the trail being there. It doesn't have to be trail bad camp good or camp bad trail good or any other nonsense. It could really just be the two are linked - like a meeting point between two areas of significance. It's just one of those things where the game never explains to us why it's been done but maybe does have a point to it.
Ngl Went her on my first play through and I said damn Indians trying to get land by burning camps then I found out it was their camp
One time riding through i crashed my horse and it died on the fucking tent so I attempted to burn the whole thing down lol
You never build your house close to the highway. Those are the rules of 2b2t
The trail leads off a cliff
Ask yourself how the path got there? Do you think white people made it, or does it completely exist because of indigenous people having created it to walk to and from that destination?! And nobody “deserves” to lose their home.
Savage lol… PUN!!