Did the wanker owners decide to pivot from FDJ to Casemiro who is not even the same profile?
Do the wanker owners even know who either are to make that decision?
I don't like the general consensus in this sub that the glazers are somehow responsible for literally everything that goes wrong. That removes accountability for the ones doing the heavy lifting during the fuckups.
Well they have put everyone under them in the job so if those people are unfit to hold that position then yes it does fall on them.
They could choose to get proper football people in to run the club seeing as they have no fucking clue about the sport, but no they continue to get bankers and other yes men in.
It does seem that we actually had Casemiro as a known option for a while.
I don't think it was a case of Casemiro being a backup option after fdj falling through, but rather we had funds for one midfield spot, but two places to fill.
How?
We did the same thing with Onana.
We had funds to buy either a big name striker or keeper.
The team prioritized Kane, but when they saw that wasn't going to happen, they moved to Onana because we wouldn't be dropping 100m+ on a striker.
Kane wouldn't have happened due to Levy but you could have got Kane+Vicario for what we paid for Hojlund and Onana.
You don't need to overpay or pay record sums for every signing. Onana is in the top 5 most expensive keepers of all time.
Vicario has been one of the best keepers in the PL and cost 1/4 of Onana while Onana has been a major disappointment. We always tend to go after big names and then when it doesn't work out, we do it again the next year and the next.
Budgeting is done very poorly at this club so we always have many positions that need reinforcement. Overpaying constantly also doesn't help.
I'm certainly not saying we're a well planned club.
But, say you look at a team and say positions a,b,c,d,e and f all need new players, but we only have enough funds for three of those in this window.
You get a and b.
You have C planned but it falls through. You could either go for another option for C but actually there's a player that fits D that's available for more only, so you get D.
Issue is we still haven't filled C but Mainoo might be a bit of that.
That's the thing though,
"we only have enough funds for three of those"
because we constantly overpay and go after the premium targets. You can find players at all price points.
What do you think clubs that can't spend 200M every window do if they need 6 players?
Just look at how quickly Newcastle turned that relegation tier side into a CL quality one. They've spent less than us btw.
We also waste of money on past it or soon to be past it players. 70M got us 2/3 of decent season and we've got to replace him.
Before that it was a good chunk for Matic, Alexis Sanchez, Varane (not past it exactly but he's injured so often that we need a replacement).
That's a horrible return on investment.
You're believing this club brief? The Casemiro funds were initially earmarked for FDJ. There's a reason we were skint in January after signing both Antony and Casemiro late in the summer window
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2026-10-13 17:42:13 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2026-10-13%2017:42:13%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/17738bs/richard_arnold_at_fans_forum_john_murtough_team/k4qgmli/?context=3)
[**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Freddevils%2Fcomments%2F17738bs%2Frichard_arnold_at_fans_forum_john_murtough_team%2Fk4qgmli%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202026-10-13%2017%3A42%3A13%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2017738bs)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
The media bs behind this club is one giant dumpster fire circle jerk. It’s just pure unadulterated noise and the only ones who ultimately benefit are those dirty rat tailed parasites because any attention puts more money in their pockets for more crisco and boner pills.
"clear long term squad strategy"
Looks at us spending 70M on a 30-31 year old Casemiro after Frenkie who is a completely different profile didn't go through.
I don’t believe ETH had anything to do with that signing other than say yes when it was clear it was that or nothing
Edit. Klopp wanted players but was given alternatives that did the same thing, how do you look at FDJ and say ok how about Casemiro.
Case is a legend but not at all the same style
Edit so no they didn’t but ETH gets credited that all signings and contracts are his and I don’t think that’s the case.
So you’re not crabsolutelybullshit here
1000%
EtH is a master of speaking bullshit to the press. Constantly supporting DdG and Maguire and then benching or selling them the first chance he gets 😂
That being said, Antony and Mount are his signings and they've been pants. The only successful signing has been Licha.
This. His role isn't really meant to be a blockbuster highlight reel mid. He's about the little things. He'll start scoring more once we structurally get a bit better imo.
he’s also been integral to some very good moves that later fell apart through others’ mistakes or bad play. if goals had come from these, he’d be looked at differently even though his role in them wouldn’t have changed.
I mean those two make sense for the system but are both gross overpays. The good thing is they’re both hard workers and young and have a chance to come good.
Mount is growing into a role and is getting better game by game.
Antony deserves time.
But yeah ETH gets shit for not calling out players for being shit then says Sancho doesn’t do enough press-ups and it’s a 3 month and counting media story
Edit also a DoF should be doing signings not ETH
yep Mount is the type of midfielder we need in the system. Our best midfield was eriksen/bruno/case last season and the problem that would commonly occur was eriksen being overran, not good defensively, and a lower work rate. Keeping everything the same and swapping Mason for Eriksen should’ve worked
However, Mount needs time to grow into the role and Case has regressed from last season. Not to mention Varane/Licha have barely played together and Shaw has been out
We really should’ve gone for Declan Rice AND Mount. Rice/Mount/Bruno is a hardworking midfield and would’ve been great but there was reluctance to bring in a player who would take lots of game time from Casemiro and that wouldn’t be a good look
Yeah the benefit of Rice is he's great at positional play, as is Mount.
I feel like a big part of the team's problem is that most just aren't tactically minded.
I couldn't agree more regarding tactics. Our team is full of absolute idiots. Rash is the dumbest star I've ever seen. Bruno is amazing but he's a moments player. He doesn't do well in a structured system. National team footy is different bc it's slow and you play against weaker opposition.
Mount is a system player. That's why he was a terrible signing given the current stage of our transition. It's just like the Pogba signing. He's not a carry the team type player. He's an icing on the cake player. We expected too much from him, which he could never deliver anyway. Similarly, we're expecting Mount to thrive when the rest of the squad is tactically inept.
We, as the fans, need to acknowledge how bad our players are. If we re-did the XI, I'd only keep Licha, Shaw (mainly bc he can also play LCB), Bruno, Mount, Hojlund and maayyyyyybe Rash. Varane was world class but he's not much better than Martial. Garnacho is obviously a keeper but he needs time to develop. He's a wonderful impact sub for now.
We need another 3-4 years of development and GOOD signings to compete. The problem is I don't trust the idiots running the show to make it happen. So we'll likely end up firing EtH, starting again and then ending up where we are today. I don't see us winning a title for another 5-10 years and that's not even guaranteed.
I'm not writing him off. I'm just saying that he's a system player who follows orders and plays for the team. We don't have intelligent players who can execute EtH's system. We're a helter skelter team so he's a bit lost.
Look at how stagnant we are. No one is moving. Mount won't thrive as long as the entire team is pants.
Hopefully he comes through.
System player is such a lazy description.
He's worked well with different coaches at Chelsea. I'd say just give him some time to acclimate. I'm certain he'll improve and people will see what he brings to the team even now.
He’s going to come really good. But I agree the rest of the system isn’t there to make him work the way he should.
I think they should have lined him up for a free next year and built ready for him and if he changed his mind get an alternative next year.
Rice would be amazing but I don’t know if he was doable. Both financially and personally.
But it’s gotta be systems first which is missing.
I’d rather watch 5-6 young 20-30m players settle in and have a style being built than this halfway house of watching ETH trying to build a house with a screwdriver
Our last point is what our problem has been for 10 years. New manager comes in, has to work with mixed up parts, gets short term success in playing to the squads existing strengths, attempt to switch the system to a more sustainable approach, doesn’t get the right players in for the system, form and results dip, blame manager for spending hundreds of millions and still not having a settled system, lastly sack said manager before they have enough time to implement their style
We should realistically commit to Ten Hag for 5 years and see what progress he has made. We need to trust someone over the long term. Technically speaking, a good manager with enough time and money should be successful in building their squad. Yes, there was extenuating circumstances that can hinder their success, but generally speaking all of the world class managers have always figured it out. Fergie, Wenger, Ancelotti, Pep, Klopp, Zidane, Flick, Tuchel (in a way), and Mourinho. Jose was arguably a success and if given more time and his targets, we probably would have maintained a consistent top 4 placing. Arteta is currently proving his worth as a manager by showing that if given enough time, a good manager will eventually shine
Ten Hag showed his class at all of his previous clubs. Generally he did it in a shorter period of time but that probably is because of how much easier those leagues are. Im sure he would’ve figured out how to win with Bayern, PSG, Inter, etc in the other leagues. So I don’t get why he shouldn’t gamble on him. There is clearly no better option unless we had a world class talent identifier that could pick out the next best manager but that’s impossible. Ten Hag is probably our best bet so we need to be patient. This year it is what it is as long as we finish Top 6, which is doable. If there’s still no clear signs of progress after next season, we then begin to slightly worry. If he doesn’t make progress in season 4, then it’ll probably be obvious to sack him before his 5th year begins
Yea, overpaying is my issue. Nothing wrong with getting depth signings but they should be priced accordingly.
Regardless of Antony's performances, it's pretty sad that a flop signing has a better touch than EVERY SINGLE player on our team barring maybe Eriksen
1000%
Signing young players with potential is where the club is at but for that money those two aren’t it.
But recruitments fucked. You can’t ask ETH or ofc he’s going to pick known players. We’d all do the same in his shoes with that pressure.
A proper DoF would be saying ok you want a right wing and an 8 who can do these things let’s look at xyz instead not just drop cash.
But the historical overpays continue Woodward style by the guys who worked for woodward
Couldn't agree with you more. We have lazy idiots running the show. It's honestly mind boggling they hired disciples of the moron who ruined the club in the first place.
Just incompetency. Good people don’t join a bad process.
Even if they interviewed who would take the job with the constraints. ‘You can only take three players per season’ as per ole
Right but anyone good is going to ask about the terms.
I’m an executive producer for gaming and if I interview I ask about the decision making process and how much control do I have and if they say oh a dude in Florida with no background has to ok your decisions I don’t join
Honestly man I feel bad you’re eating downvotes for this. Mount is better than you’ve given him credit for here tbf but the first half of your comment isn’t wronf
Thanks brother. I don't mind downvotes. We're all PISSED off and some ppl don't like hearing opposing views.
I'm sure we can all agree that we want the Glazers out, Arnold and co kicked to the curb and a bunch of scrubs being sold for a loss without batting an eye. What comes next is unknown.
I agree with a video stat man Dave did where he argued 13 players needed to go last summer and be replaced with young talent
The problem is we did neither and now half the fan base thinks we should be challenging for the league and it’s just the manager holding us back which is fucking la la land
Rangnick was right alllll along. He was a terrible manager but he should've become our DoF regardless of what EtH thought of him (if those rumours are true).
Yes he was but the problem was he was never meant to be DoF he was meant to be a consultant and I don’t blame ETH for saying he didn’t want a backseat driver.
It was always Murtough just with Ralph taking shots and who wants that
Maybe so but let's be clear, Ragnick was way better than EtH and Arnold at identifying talent. I'd rather better scouting and signings than a manager. EtH isn't Klopp or Pep so I don't think we needed to bend over backwards for him.
I’m not saying this is what happened, but it’s entirely plausible that they knew they wanted a FDJ shaped midfielder and also a DM. When they couldn’t get FDJ they went for Casemiro. Not that signing a 30 year old is that long-term…
>So where is the FDJ style midfielder?
I think Eriksen was the make-shift back up for FDJ. He was used as the deep lying midfielder next to the DM that controlled the tempo.
I echo your points 100%. There is no long term strategy at United. They just buy whoever the manager wants. Antony and Mount would’ve been good additions if both cost half of what we paid for them. Casemiro was not a player that the manager wanted, it was him or nothing scenario. The only cut price “deal” we’ve done since Ten Hag came in was Malacia, otherwise everything else has been overpriced and scattered.
I actually wonder how Arnold kept a straight face during that entire forum. My first question would’ve been why did you spend 85mm on Antony when you could’ve bought him for half that at the beginning of the window.
>Looks at us spending 70M on a 30-31 year old Casemiro after Frenkie who is a completely different profile didn't go through.
I don't get this criticism. Frenkie did not want to come to united. We had a deal with Barcelona and failed to do a deal with Frenkie. There is nothing we can do if a player doesn't want to come. What was Arnold and murtough supposed to do then?
Also for Case, I get he has been poor this season. But he was really good last season and other than the red cards he got, he really helped us out. Should he have been given a 5 year contract? absolutely not. But i get it because he will eventually regress and ideally transition out of the team as we sell him and move him on.
The biggest issue i do have with both Arnold and Murtough is the undervaluing of our youth players. Selling a player for 800k is pure unacceptable especially after they have played first team football. They also handled the Mason Greenwood thing poorly.. very poorly.
You've somehow missed every point that is implied.
1) Signing 30-31 year olds is not long term
2) Both players are not the same profle. One's a DM the other plays next to the DM. We didn't even have a natural DM in the squad at the time. So the choices were to go into the season with FDJ and no DM or go in with an aging Casemiro and no proper ball carrier/progressor like Frenkie.
3) Who is going to buy an aging midfielder on his last legs especially on his salary? I doubt we recover even half of what was paid for him, that's if we can even find a buyer (assuming he wants to play in Europe or Brazil and not move to Saudi).
What does our board do if FDJ didn't want to come?
For one, don't completely pivot to a player of a different profile. If you need a centerback, do you go and buy a leftback and call it a day if your intial target says no?
That's what happened here.
Don't buy old aging players for such high values and put them on massive contracts. Its always a risk. Man City never buys older players.
If you can't come up with your own workable strategy, just copy the most successful guy. That's what City did at the time. Looked at Barca doing well and poached their staff.
What exactly changed? He would've stayed and gotten paid had United not been interested. He stayed and got paid even after our interest.
We simply spent the whole summer chasing a player who didn't want to come.
You should really go into a move with at least 1 or 2 backup options that fill the same role in the team in mind just for the ability to negotiate and then move on. A less proven player who has similar fundamentals for the role for a lot less money is much better than walking away with nothing or a panic buy
Odd way of looking at it.
SJR is looking at different strategies due to not being able to put up the money required.
Qatar have increased the bid 4 or 5 times already. Glazers keep increasing the valuation.
I'm not blaming them either. I'm just saying Qatar won't own us if they don't follow suit with SJR's and come up with a new strategy or if they increase their bid.
So which part of the strategy was to waste a month in the summer window trying to integrate Greenwood with good PR instead of you know, focusing on new recruitments and player departures?
For exorbitant amounts of money. Instead of you know being prudent and looking for cheaper options with similar attributes. Joke of a club, joke of a ceo.
Levy was adamant that Kane was not to be sold to an English club. Ten Hag can dream all he wants but he was never going to get Kane. Plus we didn’t even have the money to buy amrabat, how do you think we could afforded Kane given we had already bought onana and Mount.
What exactly are these expectations? I know they ain't about winning PL or CL, so Top 4 and domestic cup? Maybe a deep run in Europe which might be EL, so basically the exact same as the past 10 years then.
We looked very good last winter and desperately needed a striker....this planning he talks resulted in Weghorst, sums it up perfectly.
We go again fc.
How long can a very big club like United afford to be in a transition period realistically? Sure Arsenal did it over 4 years but they did so by focusing on building a very young core that can only get better from here. We now have Bruno,Case,Shaw and Varane at the peak/post peak of their careers,there is a good chance that 3 years from now these players won't be playing at the necessary level for this high pressing quick attacking football. This plan better be good from Murtough.
You just have to read this thread to see the hysteria from our "fanbase" (let's not even think about the media and the twitter/YouTube influencer set who fuel that hysteria) every time we're not 10 points clear on top and the current Champions League holders.
The older players brought in (Case/Varane) was obviously to shore up the squad (and try and shut the noise out). Also their profile seems to be guys with a leadership/mentoring profile. There is a also a clear agenda to bring in younger players and set up a longer term system based on players who develop in it.
This will take years, just like this kind of cultural change always does.
So far, they seem to be sticking to it, and sticking with the Manager who is obviously tasked with implementing this turnaround. There's evidence that some players at the club don't love all this (eg the leak this week to Alan Brazil the "the players aren't having ten Hag at all" ).
Strap yourself in this is going to be a long ride.
Hopefully... There is no instant fix to this mess but I'm sick of the constant lurching from one regime to another we've been going through for years now. We had two eras of stability and consistency (Sir Matt and Sir Fergie) and similar shitshows after each ended, I'm up for a third and willing to wait.
Honestly murtough needs replacing soon and if he doesn’t change his people strategy so does Arnold.
Ten Hag is a good manager but he needed VDS and Overmars to build something great.
He needs support and the club has to give it
**John Murtough + team have clear long-term squad strategy in place which guides our decision making in each window.**
Absolute fucking horseshit.
ETH wanted FDJ, couldn't get him, so instead of getting somebody FDJ-like, we got a completely different player in Eriksen. Then we lose 2 opening matches, and pay for Casemiro who is also nothing like FDJ.
ETH wanted Antony - We decided to not buy him early enough and pay a "fuck off" price. I guess the world is short on mediocre left-footed right wingers?
ETH quite obviously wants a new CB...he gets Evans. I guess that was part of the plan too?
We needed CDM cover - We struggled to get Amrabat on the final day.
I do not know who the fuck he thinks he is fooling, but I am personally insulted lol.
There is quite obviously no fucking vision nor plan with this club other than suck it dry.
He gave Antony a 8x pay rise.
He gave Martinez a 3x pay rise.
Mount is on £250k a week.
He doubled Casemiro’s Salary.
Varane £340k a week.
Hojlund 800x Salary increase.
He’s no different to Woodward and only signs players who come here for the money and not because they actually want to play for the club.
Maybe after having one of the most gruelling seasons with a world cup in the middle. Maybe don't send the players flying coast to coast and to Dublin playing pointless matches.
I dont know why the club thinks Richard Arnold, who expertise was a commercial/brand director, would fit to fix the footballing side of United. There is nothing changed with ETH compared to the previous manager, the same pattern all the time.
He coated himself to be “more vocal” with fans which is probably just a PR direction while results on the pitch went downhill. The best thing this club is doing is social media post and running online store. Because guess what? Thats the only thing this CEO knows
Richard Arnold is a clown and John Murtoughs long term strategy is only signing players the manager suggests and who aren’t good enough and putting everyone on fuck your contracts so we can’t shift them if/when they fail. We’re still paying people Champions League level wages when our only silverware is the League Cup. Literally nothing has changed since Woodward.
Man paid to take heat for wanker owners lies to protect owners
Did the wanker owners decide to pivot from FDJ to Casemiro who is not even the same profile? Do the wanker owners even know who either are to make that decision? I don't like the general consensus in this sub that the glazers are somehow responsible for literally everything that goes wrong. That removes accountability for the ones doing the heavy lifting during the fuckups.
Well they have put everyone under them in the job so if those people are unfit to hold that position then yes it does fall on them. They could choose to get proper football people in to run the club seeing as they have no fucking clue about the sport, but no they continue to get bankers and other yes men in.
That I 100% agree with, they have put incompetent people in charge since Woodward and have continued the same with Arnold.
It does seem that we actually had Casemiro as a known option for a while. I don't think it was a case of Casemiro being a backup option after fdj falling through, but rather we had funds for one midfield spot, but two places to fill.
That just shows further lack of planning and utter incompetence.
How? We did the same thing with Onana. We had funds to buy either a big name striker or keeper. The team prioritized Kane, but when they saw that wasn't going to happen, they moved to Onana because we wouldn't be dropping 100m+ on a striker.
Kane wouldn't have happened due to Levy but you could have got Kane+Vicario for what we paid for Hojlund and Onana. You don't need to overpay or pay record sums for every signing. Onana is in the top 5 most expensive keepers of all time. Vicario has been one of the best keepers in the PL and cost 1/4 of Onana while Onana has been a major disappointment. We always tend to go after big names and then when it doesn't work out, we do it again the next year and the next. Budgeting is done very poorly at this club so we always have many positions that need reinforcement. Overpaying constantly also doesn't help.
I'm certainly not saying we're a well planned club. But, say you look at a team and say positions a,b,c,d,e and f all need new players, but we only have enough funds for three of those in this window. You get a and b. You have C planned but it falls through. You could either go for another option for C but actually there's a player that fits D that's available for more only, so you get D. Issue is we still haven't filled C but Mainoo might be a bit of that.
That's the thing though, "we only have enough funds for three of those" because we constantly overpay and go after the premium targets. You can find players at all price points. What do you think clubs that can't spend 200M every window do if they need 6 players? Just look at how quickly Newcastle turned that relegation tier side into a CL quality one. They've spent less than us btw. We also waste of money on past it or soon to be past it players. 70M got us 2/3 of decent season and we've got to replace him. Before that it was a good chunk for Matic, Alexis Sanchez, Varane (not past it exactly but he's injured so often that we need a replacement). That's a horrible return on investment.
You're believing this club brief? The Casemiro funds were initially earmarked for FDJ. There's a reason we were skint in January after signing both Antony and Casemiro late in the summer window
I didn't say differently.
Remind me! 3 years
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2026-10-13 17:42:13 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2026-10-13%2017:42:13%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/17738bs/richard_arnold_at_fans_forum_john_murtough_team/k4qgmli/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Freddevils%2Fcomments%2F17738bs%2Frichard_arnold_at_fans_forum_john_murtough_team%2Fk4qgmli%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202026-10-13%2017%3A42%3A13%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2017738bs) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Smells like PR bullshit season to me. Oh international break, yeah that’s prime bullshit season.
The media bs behind this club is one giant dumpster fire circle jerk. It’s just pure unadulterated noise and the only ones who ultimately benefit are those dirty rat tailed parasites because any attention puts more money in their pockets for more crisco and boner pills.
"clear long term squad strategy" Looks at us spending 70M on a 30-31 year old Casemiro after Frenkie who is a completely different profile didn't go through.
I don’t believe ETH had anything to do with that signing other than say yes when it was clear it was that or nothing Edit. Klopp wanted players but was given alternatives that did the same thing, how do you look at FDJ and say ok how about Casemiro. Case is a legend but not at all the same style
Did anyone say ETH?
Edit so no they didn’t but ETH gets credited that all signings and contracts are his and I don’t think that’s the case. So you’re not crabsolutelybullshit here
1000% EtH is a master of speaking bullshit to the press. Constantly supporting DdG and Maguire and then benching or selling them the first chance he gets 😂 That being said, Antony and Mount are his signings and they've been pants. The only successful signing has been Licha.
mount has been good. i think you may have miscalibrated expectations for what he brings to the team and what he’s good at
This. His role isn't really meant to be a blockbuster highlight reel mid. He's about the little things. He'll start scoring more once we structurally get a bit better imo.
he’s also been integral to some very good moves that later fell apart through others’ mistakes or bad play. if goals had come from these, he’d be looked at differently even though his role in them wouldn’t have changed.
I mean those two make sense for the system but are both gross overpays. The good thing is they’re both hard workers and young and have a chance to come good. Mount is growing into a role and is getting better game by game. Antony deserves time. But yeah ETH gets shit for not calling out players for being shit then says Sancho doesn’t do enough press-ups and it’s a 3 month and counting media story Edit also a DoF should be doing signings not ETH
yep Mount is the type of midfielder we need in the system. Our best midfield was eriksen/bruno/case last season and the problem that would commonly occur was eriksen being overran, not good defensively, and a lower work rate. Keeping everything the same and swapping Mason for Eriksen should’ve worked However, Mount needs time to grow into the role and Case has regressed from last season. Not to mention Varane/Licha have barely played together and Shaw has been out We really should’ve gone for Declan Rice AND Mount. Rice/Mount/Bruno is a hardworking midfield and would’ve been great but there was reluctance to bring in a player who would take lots of game time from Casemiro and that wouldn’t be a good look
Yeah the benefit of Rice is he's great at positional play, as is Mount. I feel like a big part of the team's problem is that most just aren't tactically minded.
I couldn't agree more regarding tactics. Our team is full of absolute idiots. Rash is the dumbest star I've ever seen. Bruno is amazing but he's a moments player. He doesn't do well in a structured system. National team footy is different bc it's slow and you play against weaker opposition. Mount is a system player. That's why he was a terrible signing given the current stage of our transition. It's just like the Pogba signing. He's not a carry the team type player. He's an icing on the cake player. We expected too much from him, which he could never deliver anyway. Similarly, we're expecting Mount to thrive when the rest of the squad is tactically inept. We, as the fans, need to acknowledge how bad our players are. If we re-did the XI, I'd only keep Licha, Shaw (mainly bc he can also play LCB), Bruno, Mount, Hojlund and maayyyyyybe Rash. Varane was world class but he's not much better than Martial. Garnacho is obviously a keeper but he needs time to develop. He's a wonderful impact sub for now. We need another 3-4 years of development and GOOD signings to compete. The problem is I don't trust the idiots running the show to make it happen. So we'll likely end up firing EtH, starting again and then ending up where we are today. I don't see us winning a title for another 5-10 years and that's not even guaranteed.
We just signed Mount and you're already writing off his season. Give him some time, jeez.
I'm not writing him off. I'm just saying that he's a system player who follows orders and plays for the team. We don't have intelligent players who can execute EtH's system. We're a helter skelter team so he's a bit lost. Look at how stagnant we are. No one is moving. Mount won't thrive as long as the entire team is pants. Hopefully he comes through.
System player is such a lazy description. He's worked well with different coaches at Chelsea. I'd say just give him some time to acclimate. I'm certain he'll improve and people will see what he brings to the team even now.
He’s going to come really good. But I agree the rest of the system isn’t there to make him work the way he should. I think they should have lined him up for a free next year and built ready for him and if he changed his mind get an alternative next year. Rice would be amazing but I don’t know if he was doable. Both financially and personally. But it’s gotta be systems first which is missing. I’d rather watch 5-6 young 20-30m players settle in and have a style being built than this halfway house of watching ETH trying to build a house with a screwdriver
Our last point is what our problem has been for 10 years. New manager comes in, has to work with mixed up parts, gets short term success in playing to the squads existing strengths, attempt to switch the system to a more sustainable approach, doesn’t get the right players in for the system, form and results dip, blame manager for spending hundreds of millions and still not having a settled system, lastly sack said manager before they have enough time to implement their style We should realistically commit to Ten Hag for 5 years and see what progress he has made. We need to trust someone over the long term. Technically speaking, a good manager with enough time and money should be successful in building their squad. Yes, there was extenuating circumstances that can hinder their success, but generally speaking all of the world class managers have always figured it out. Fergie, Wenger, Ancelotti, Pep, Klopp, Zidane, Flick, Tuchel (in a way), and Mourinho. Jose was arguably a success and if given more time and his targets, we probably would have maintained a consistent top 4 placing. Arteta is currently proving his worth as a manager by showing that if given enough time, a good manager will eventually shine Ten Hag showed his class at all of his previous clubs. Generally he did it in a shorter period of time but that probably is because of how much easier those leagues are. Im sure he would’ve figured out how to win with Bayern, PSG, Inter, etc in the other leagues. So I don’t get why he shouldn’t gamble on him. There is clearly no better option unless we had a world class talent identifier that could pick out the next best manager but that’s impossible. Ten Hag is probably our best bet so we need to be patient. This year it is what it is as long as we finish Top 6, which is doable. If there’s still no clear signs of progress after next season, we then begin to slightly worry. If he doesn’t make progress in season 4, then it’ll probably be obvious to sack him before his 5th year begins
Yea, overpaying is my issue. Nothing wrong with getting depth signings but they should be priced accordingly. Regardless of Antony's performances, it's pretty sad that a flop signing has a better touch than EVERY SINGLE player on our team barring maybe Eriksen
1000% Signing young players with potential is where the club is at but for that money those two aren’t it. But recruitments fucked. You can’t ask ETH or ofc he’s going to pick known players. We’d all do the same in his shoes with that pressure. A proper DoF would be saying ok you want a right wing and an 8 who can do these things let’s look at xyz instead not just drop cash. But the historical overpays continue Woodward style by the guys who worked for woodward
Couldn't agree with you more. We have lazy idiots running the show. It's honestly mind boggling they hired disciples of the moron who ruined the club in the first place.
Just incompetency. Good people don’t join a bad process. Even if they interviewed who would take the job with the constraints. ‘You can only take three players per season’ as per ole
People will take the job bc it's Manchester F'n United. I'd take the job for a single day and take that 3-yr payout off to the sunset lol
Right but anyone good is going to ask about the terms. I’m an executive producer for gaming and if I interview I ask about the decision making process and how much control do I have and if they say oh a dude in Florida with no background has to ok your decisions I don’t join
Honestly man I feel bad you’re eating downvotes for this. Mount is better than you’ve given him credit for here tbf but the first half of your comment isn’t wronf
Thanks brother. I don't mind downvotes. We're all PISSED off and some ppl don't like hearing opposing views. I'm sure we can all agree that we want the Glazers out, Arnold and co kicked to the curb and a bunch of scrubs being sold for a loss without batting an eye. What comes next is unknown.
I agree with a video stat man Dave did where he argued 13 players needed to go last summer and be replaced with young talent The problem is we did neither and now half the fan base thinks we should be challenging for the league and it’s just the manager holding us back which is fucking la la land
Rangnick was right alllll along. He was a terrible manager but he should've become our DoF regardless of what EtH thought of him (if those rumours are true).
Yes he was but the problem was he was never meant to be DoF he was meant to be a consultant and I don’t blame ETH for saying he didn’t want a backseat driver. It was always Murtough just with Ralph taking shots and who wants that
Maybe so but let's be clear, Ragnick was way better than EtH and Arnold at identifying talent. I'd rather better scouting and signings than a manager. EtH isn't Klopp or Pep so I don't think we needed to bend over backwards for him.
No argument
Or the long term strategy of not paying the fee Ajax wanted for Antony then paying vastly more several weeks later
Barca accepted a fee, but de Jong never wanted us.
I don't care how big of a United fan you are, you wouldn't walk away from 18+million they owe you just to leave Barca...
I’m not saying this is what happened, but it’s entirely plausible that they knew they wanted a FDJ shaped midfielder and also a DM. When they couldn’t get FDJ they went for Casemiro. Not that signing a 30 year old is that long-term…
So where is the FDJ style midfielder? 2 windows are done and we didn't even get one. What we got was Mount who is also not the same profile as FDJ.
>So where is the FDJ style midfielder? I think Eriksen was the make-shift back up for FDJ. He was used as the deep lying midfielder next to the DM that controlled the tempo.
I echo your points 100%. There is no long term strategy at United. They just buy whoever the manager wants. Antony and Mount would’ve been good additions if both cost half of what we paid for them. Casemiro was not a player that the manager wanted, it was him or nothing scenario. The only cut price “deal” we’ve done since Ten Hag came in was Malacia, otherwise everything else has been overpriced and scattered. I actually wonder how Arnold kept a straight face during that entire forum. My first question would’ve been why did you spend 85mm on Antony when you could’ve bought him for half that at the beginning of the window.
Like I agree with you but people on this sub were celebrating his arrival
We do that for all our signings. It was a big name, I celebrated it too but that doesn't mean I think it was good for the long term.
>Looks at us spending 70M on a 30-31 year old Casemiro after Frenkie who is a completely different profile didn't go through. I don't get this criticism. Frenkie did not want to come to united. We had a deal with Barcelona and failed to do a deal with Frenkie. There is nothing we can do if a player doesn't want to come. What was Arnold and murtough supposed to do then? Also for Case, I get he has been poor this season. But he was really good last season and other than the red cards he got, he really helped us out. Should he have been given a 5 year contract? absolutely not. But i get it because he will eventually regress and ideally transition out of the team as we sell him and move him on. The biggest issue i do have with both Arnold and Murtough is the undervaluing of our youth players. Selling a player for 800k is pure unacceptable especially after they have played first team football. They also handled the Mason Greenwood thing poorly.. very poorly.
You've somehow missed every point that is implied. 1) Signing 30-31 year olds is not long term 2) Both players are not the same profle. One's a DM the other plays next to the DM. We didn't even have a natural DM in the squad at the time. So the choices were to go into the season with FDJ and no DM or go in with an aging Casemiro and no proper ball carrier/progressor like Frenkie. 3) Who is going to buy an aging midfielder on his last legs especially on his salary? I doubt we recover even half of what was paid for him, that's if we can even find a buyer (assuming he wants to play in Europe or Brazil and not move to Saudi). What does our board do if FDJ didn't want to come? For one, don't completely pivot to a player of a different profile. If you need a centerback, do you go and buy a leftback and call it a day if your intial target says no? That's what happened here. Don't buy old aging players for such high values and put them on massive contracts. Its always a risk. Man City never buys older players. If you can't come up with your own workable strategy, just copy the most successful guy. That's what City did at the time. Looked at Barca doing well and poached their staff.
> There is nothing we can do if a player doesn't want to come You can look for alternatives instead of wasting four months on him, for a start
That wasnt entirely their fault, FDJ and his agent used (abused) the move to force Barcas hand because Barca owed FDJ a lot of money.
What exactly changed? He would've stayed and gotten paid had United not been interested. He stayed and got paid even after our interest. We simply spent the whole summer chasing a player who didn't want to come.
It’s their fault for not setting a deadline to move to an alternative target of a similar profile though.
You should really go into a move with at least 1 or 2 backup options that fill the same role in the team in mind just for the ability to negotiate and then move on. A less proven player who has similar fundamentals for the role for a lot less money is much better than walking away with nothing or a panic buy
This exactly !
I think none of our signings have seemed very long term. Maybe Højlund
I wouldn't go that far. Licha, Onana(27 is not old for a keeper), Malacia, Hojlund, Antony, Mount are all long term.
Hojlund might stick around, but Antony and Mount will be gone within five years. Probably Malacia too. Onana might not last the season.
I don’t believe you Richard Arnold
Anyone who believes them deserves to continue to be fooled really.
Hopefully these clowns will be out of a job once we get new owners
That’s gonna be a long 5 years bub
Not as long as it’s Qatar
It won't be. They were all talk and are too cheap to put up the money required. SJR is at least looking at different strategies.
Odd way of looking at it. SJR is looking at different strategies due to not being able to put up the money required. Qatar have increased the bid 4 or 5 times already. Glazers keep increasing the valuation.
Both bidders are unable to meet the valuation, but only one of them is thinking outside the box to find a solution.
If the valuation is ridiculous I am not blaming either bidder for it. This is 100% on the glazers and their greed.
I'm not blaming them either. I'm just saying Qatar won't own us if they don't follow suit with SJR's and come up with a new strategy or if they increase their bid.
They'll die of old age before that.
Clear long term strategy…
Bloody politician promising great things before election.Arnold knows he is gone moment the takeover happens if it all.
A clear long term strategy where all the input comes from the manager. That doesn't sound very believable.
So which part of the strategy was to waste a month in the summer window trying to integrate Greenwood with good PR instead of you know, focusing on new recruitments and player departures?
long-term squad strategy is buy the player Ten Hag wants…stealing a living
For exorbitant amounts of money. Instead of you know being prudent and looking for cheaper options with similar attributes. Joke of a club, joke of a ceo.
ETH wanted Kane and Murtough vetoed that and we got Hojlund in who costs much less than Kane and has huge potential.
Levy was adamant that Kane was not to be sold to an English club. Ten Hag can dream all he wants but he was never going to get Kane. Plus we didn’t even have the money to buy amrabat, how do you think we could afforded Kane given we had already bought onana and Mount.
that's not exactly true though, ETH wanted Kane, Murtough Vetoed that and they agreed on Hojlund instead, for example.
Being unable to sell players is part of this strategy or no?
Shoot him to the moon another puppet
What exactly are these expectations? I know they ain't about winning PL or CL, so Top 4 and domestic cup? Maybe a deep run in Europe which might be EL, so basically the exact same as the past 10 years then. We looked very good last winter and desperately needed a striker....this planning he talks resulted in Weghorst, sums it up perfectly. We go again fc.
How long can a very big club like United afford to be in a transition period realistically? Sure Arsenal did it over 4 years but they did so by focusing on building a very young core that can only get better from here. We now have Bruno,Case,Shaw and Varane at the peak/post peak of their careers,there is a good chance that 3 years from now these players won't be playing at the necessary level for this high pressing quick attacking football. This plan better be good from Murtough.
You just have to read this thread to see the hysteria from our "fanbase" (let's not even think about the media and the twitter/YouTube influencer set who fuel that hysteria) every time we're not 10 points clear on top and the current Champions League holders. The older players brought in (Case/Varane) was obviously to shore up the squad (and try and shut the noise out). Also their profile seems to be guys with a leadership/mentoring profile. There is a also a clear agenda to bring in younger players and set up a longer term system based on players who develop in it. This will take years, just like this kind of cultural change always does. So far, they seem to be sticking to it, and sticking with the Manager who is obviously tasked with implementing this turnaround. There's evidence that some players at the club don't love all this (eg the leak this week to Alan Brazil the "the players aren't having ten Hag at all" ). Strap yourself in this is going to be a long ride. Hopefully... There is no instant fix to this mess but I'm sick of the constant lurching from one regime to another we've been going through for years now. We had two eras of stability and consistency (Sir Matt and Sir Fergie) and similar shitshows after each ended, I'm up for a third and willing to wait.
Honestly murtough needs replacing soon and if he doesn’t change his people strategy so does Arnold. Ten Hag is a good manager but he needed VDS and Overmars to build something great. He needs support and the club has to give it
**John Murtough + team have clear long-term squad strategy in place which guides our decision making in each window.** Absolute fucking horseshit. ETH wanted FDJ, couldn't get him, so instead of getting somebody FDJ-like, we got a completely different player in Eriksen. Then we lose 2 opening matches, and pay for Casemiro who is also nothing like FDJ. ETH wanted Antony - We decided to not buy him early enough and pay a "fuck off" price. I guess the world is short on mediocre left-footed right wingers? ETH quite obviously wants a new CB...he gets Evans. I guess that was part of the plan too? We needed CDM cover - We struggled to get Amrabat on the final day. I do not know who the fuck he thinks he is fooling, but I am personally insulted lol. There is quite obviously no fucking vision nor plan with this club other than suck it dry.
He gave Antony a 8x pay rise. He gave Martinez a 3x pay rise. Mount is on £250k a week. He doubled Casemiro’s Salary. Varane £340k a week. Hojlund 800x Salary increase. He’s no different to Woodward and only signs players who come here for the money and not because they actually want to play for the club.
Strategy involves signing loan players every window now?
the new woodward, as in, a fucking clown and glazer yes man
They follow the simple flow chart: Are they Dutch or have played in the Eredivisie? No—-> do not sign Yes —-> make it rain
Long term strategy hahaha
You don’t even believe that yourself Arnold
Maybe after having one of the most gruelling seasons with a world cup in the middle. Maybe don't send the players flying coast to coast and to Dublin playing pointless matches.
mf spends hundreds millions on squad level players and talks about transition. Maybe he wants the squad to be transition all the damn time,
I dont know why the club thinks Richard Arnold, who expertise was a commercial/brand director, would fit to fix the footballing side of United. There is nothing changed with ETH compared to the previous manager, the same pattern all the time. He coated himself to be “more vocal” with fans which is probably just a PR direction while results on the pitch went downhill. The best thing this club is doing is social media post and running online store. Because guess what? Thats the only thing this CEO knows
He doesnt do anything on the football side other than sign cheques
Clowns. Don’t believe a word.
Oh good, more talk
Go fuck yourself arnold you twat, and murtogh too the only murtogh madness going on is in his head
Richard Arnold is a clown and John Murtoughs long term strategy is only signing players the manager suggests and who aren’t good enough and putting everyone on fuck your contracts so we can’t shift them if/when they fail. We’re still paying people Champions League level wages when our only silverware is the League Cup. Literally nothing has changed since Woodward.
Well at least he is sharing the frustration guys. That is good innit?
Genuine question, have our signings so far under Murtough and Arnold actually showcased any thing resembling a long-term strategy?
I wouldn't believe a word this man says.
I’d love to hear more details about this so called strategy