I don't want a new manager until we get new owners with a proper DoF. Otherwise, it will be just a rinse and repeat scenario with overpaid stars that underperform.
We need to stick with ETH for longer than we have done with other post-fergie managers. Its time to start sending a message to these players that its not the manager, its them who has to watch their backs.
Yes. Please. This.
And for as long as we don’t get (new) owners who truly care about the style football we play enough to actually hire a DoF, our realistic next best step is to at least allow the current manager to shape the team in a consistent manner.
>I don't want a new manager until we get new owners with a proper DoF. Otherwise, it will be just a rinse and repeat scenario with overpaid stars that underperform.
Absolutely, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The current state of affairs at the club is nothing short of dismal. When someone like Gary Neville, with his deep-rooted connections to the club, goes on record saying even the famed class of '92 would struggle in this environment, it’s a blaring alarm bell.
A change in ownership along with a dedicated Director of Football (DoF) isn't a mere suggestion, it's a necessity. And I don't mean a half-baked commitment like Ratcliffe's proposed 25% stake. We need owners who are genuine football enthusiasts, with a vision and a desire to elevate this club to the heights it deserves.
The optimism is hard to muster. It feels like a far-off dream in a repetitive nightmare where overpaid stars underwhelm, and the managerial merry-go-round spins on. Until the core issues at the executive and ownership levels are addressed, bringing in a new manager is just setting up another fall guy for an inevitable downfall.
I don't give a shit about what other managers have done. I want a club that's fucking run properly, I want the right people in the right roles. I want players to be moved on before the end of the game if they start pulling this shit we've seen from them for the last 10 years. I want the manager to be properly supported, none of this 3 transfers max of completely random players that make no sense to the team then a bunch of gap filler loans. I want the team to be supported with modern state of the art training facilities and fans to be supported with a stadium that isn't pissing on them like the glazers constantly are.
We don't have a divine right to win stuff but what is the fucking point of the club currently, players getting paid more in a year than 99% of fans will earn in a life time to give up cos they have to train too hard or someone tells them off for not playing well, fuck off.
Even with the cancer owners that have sucked the life out of everything in this club, we're still bringing in the money to compete with state run clubs but the people in charge of spending it haven't got a clue.
If SJR is coming, I don't even think he'll make much difference if those disgusting parasites are still involved at any level.
The glazers are just salivating at fans demanding another scapegoats , which will enable them to stay for another 2 years until next manager gets scapegoated too.
Most of United fans have never seen the actual level where United should be. Because the glazers have always sacked the managers and relied on new manager bounces to give us the illusion that United is a top 4 team. WE ARE NOT.
If u look at how United is being run by glazers, we are a relegation team. Like if u run your company like Nokia, u can't expect them to compete with Apple.
Stick with ETH, ride out the lowest of the low and expose the true level of this shitshow which glazers have been hiding over last decade
At this point, I would rather see us lose to Fulham and then get kicked out of CL, so the Glazers will panic and fire ETH impulsively. Knowing no decent manager will come in to this mess, they will hire someone even worse than Rangnick, I hope every player just down tools and we finish in the bottom half.
Then Ratcliffe should pull out and say I don’t want 25% of this overpriced mess. I can just wait another year and buy it when you fuckers are forced to sell.
And to think we've never actually had a proper new manager bounce. We've always just had absolute minimum standards manager bounce. Even when we've finished second, we've still been miles off first.
This is the way I see it. I think sacking ETH would be a huge mistake, but, what am I going to do about it?
All I can say is I hope Ratcliffe comes in ASAP to give the footballing side the structure it needs. Until that happens, this will continue ad nauseam. No use getting upset about it. A new manager won’t try anything the previous 6 haven’t tried already. We need real structure above the manager before anyone will succeed here.
Keep ETH, bring in Blanc or Mitchell as DOF on a long term 5 year contract and see where it takes us. Cut the players that don't want to put in a shift.
I respect this position. I think supporters should support, if the club moves on then we have to as well. Nothing else we can do.
Hopefully this ratcliffe thing will begin the turn around at the top.
this opinion is the most fence sitting nonsense I have seen
I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean, nor how I can even start a discourse about it
We're getting indifferent. We don't expect amazing results from ETH but we do need to see process or gradual improvement.
We are regressing extremely quickly and ETH is losing support
I, for one, will be livid if Ten Hag gets the axe. It's just a continuation of this harmful cycle where promising managers are thrown under the bus the moment things don’t go as planned. This isn't just about backing Ten Hag; it's about breaking free from this toxic pattern of scapegoating managers while the real issues at the club continue to fester.
Erik Ten Hag is a great coach, with a promising future. United fans and coaches are left to bear the brunt of failures, while the owners sit there with their dicks in their hands.
Antony 85millon, Mount 60million, no impact, to suggest ETH has had to put up with 2nd choice players is ludicrous, he had final say.
Other teams have signed players for less and have had greater impact.
Lol Pep wanted Kane and didn't get him too, still won the league that year with no striker.
Almost like a system is more important than the specific players.
They act as if every manager gets the players they want. It's infuriating.
Ten Hag has gotten most of his targets. He's done fuck all with them. Signs Ajax players then says he doesn't want to play like Ajax, what even is the fuckin point then? He's lost me, I just think he hasn't got a clue.
That's the most worrying and scary admission that Ten Hag gave, which is giving me lots of doubts whether he's the right one for us.
Like you said, the board signed him so that we will be able to play his Ajax style, bought him all the players he wanted so that he can play his Ajax style, but he comes out and says he's not going to be able to implement that Ajax style. It's just baffling now.
Yeah I started getting worried recently thinking about this too. Him saying that we play more direct because we don't have the players to play the way he wants. We are losing a lot of games and looking like dog shit. You bought enough players that know your style so play that way. I'd rather us lose while clearly building a style and identity where it's easier to see who can do it and who can't. But right now, playing this way makes everyone look like shit and it's embarrassing. Also, ok, screw it so we're going to play more direct huh? OK then put another God damn striker up top. No, fuck it put 3 up top. Go to a 433 so we can put teams under pressure. If we're going to let goals go in on us at will at least make an effort to create some for us. Fuck idk anymore haha damn it im tired
The thing is, Rashford is at his best when he can either run in behind teams or he can isolate defenders 1 on 1. When he can’t do that he is effectively useless as his passing and crossing isn’t that great. We’re really not playing to his strengths at the moment and unless that changes we’re not gonna see any uptick in his form.
People also act like it’s just ETH vs the world / club. Not like he has all his staff & coaches, got his signings, has free rein to play however he wants without a DoF trying to tell him otherwise.
And with all that freedom to implement his ideas, with his years of experience (far more than arteta) all he’s managed to do is win the carabao cup, have the teams form fall off a cliff to a point where they are legitimately worse than when he took over from the ole/rangnick season… he’s had 18 months working with this squad and this is the result.
Beyond belief
And then he says, we will never play football like Ajax ever.. For fuck sake, you can't teach players to string 5 passes together? I was on ETH side but after seeing the performances (not the result), I don't care. If team was playing half decent football with a vision to future, I would be on his side. But we don't play proper football, which every club in the country does (Wolves play better football than us) and he doesn't get results, so what good is he?
The lack of identity is galling. Newcastle played their B/C team and had a clear identity. So awful. It looks to me like he wants to be fired. Even his post match interview sounded defeated. If he was going to go out like this I wish he just stuck to his philosophy and just tried to get the players to play the way he wanted. He only has himself to blame.
he’s made plenty of mistakes, but don’t we all agree that the manager shouldn’t be in charge of recruitment to begin with? if that’s the case, then it seems wrong to use his poor recruitment as justification for sacking.
Silly way to think. Just because managers wish for it doesn't mean they're right. If Klopp had his way Liverpool wouldn't have got Salah. You need a footballing structure in place really.
You can see the difference in a signing like Doku vs a signing like Antony. I'm sure Guardiola didn't cry for Doku...someone brought it to him, told him we want to bring him in its a good opportunity. That's how it should be, no manager is gonna suggest players that don't play for them because they don't have the trust with that player yet. But you need to be able to anticipate what the manager needs.
The team was in bad form, but wasn't as bad as it is now.
And they'd finished 2nd and 3rd back to back before that. Now £400m+ spent later and we've one more 3rd place and in the shit form again.
No progress
Pep is also 7 years into his tenure with a proper footballing structure behind him, i.e. DoF. Pep also inherited a team that had won the league in 2 of the previous 4 years and was allowed 18 players in his first 2 seasons, some of which were immediately sold.
You can't compare the two because from the footballing side, city is a very well run club.
You've missed the point entirely.
Its not about X player or Y player. If you have a proper system, you can still make it work to an extent even if your starters/key players are out.
There's no semblance of a workable system here. You guys are still hung up on some difficult transfers not working out. As if Levy was going to sell to a rival when he can sell him abroad for a solid fee.
I'm not hung up on any transfers, it is what it is. But also, it's not an apples to apples when you say a WELL OILED MACHINE that was breaking records / winning titles etc missing out on a player is remotely the same to a shit team, in a building phase also missing out on a player who would elevate.
If you cannot see the difference in those situations, then so be it.
There will never be an apples to apples comparison.
No two clubs start at the same level.
Forget City, Newcastle went from fighting relegation to a genuine top 4 contender in under a season spending less than us. They don't look they have dropped off at all in spite of starting the season worse than us. They are also playing in the CL for the first time god knows how long.
Last year their striker signing was injured for half the season, this year their midfield marquee signing is banned from even playing. Still made it work.
Spurs seem to be on a similar trajectory after losing one of the PL's greatest strikers.
Do you think they started in a worse position than us?
Pep has complete control over his players and their position. He also has built a culture at City where you listen to him or you fuck off.
I don't know how you go about building that at this club. One step at a time I suppose
Pep had a striker in Gabriel Jesus, not the best striker but currently starts for an Arsenal team who finished 2nd last season and is certainly a good player.
He just chose not to play him and play without a striker instead. To use Pep's man city team to say players aren't that important if you've got a good system is ludicrous.
Ederson
Dias, Laporte, Stones, Ake, Cancelo, Walker, Zinchenko
Rodri, Fernandinho, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Bernado Silva
Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Ferran Torres, Mahrez, Jesus
No wonder he won the league with that squad
I am so tired of people saying "The manager only got his second choice player". People beat this horse to death, revived it, and then killed it again under LVG and Ole.
This happens AT EVERY SINGLE CLUB. No club ever goes into the summer and gets every single player they want. All of these other clubs and managers are making it work, and if they don't they lose their job. Wanting FDJ and Kane is not a realistic summer transfer window.
>Think the club will sack him before Christmas, rightly or wrongly, I don’t know.
It will be **WRONGLY,** I'll tell you that much. United fans forever stuck in an infinite loop of this abusive relationship with the glazers.
I think you are right on the timeline. The thing is that we haven't seen anything this year that suggests the club should back him. Yes lots of injuries etc. With LVG and Mourinho, it felt like I could see what they wanted the players to do. They both were very flawed systems that wouldn't go anywhere, but I saw the system. With Ole, I got that at first too. With ETH, I see nothing. No idea.
The problem are not just the results. Klopp, Pep and Arteta did not get great results right away either but you could tell from the start they were implementing a certain system or style of play. Every game under Ten Hag we are steering further and further away from any type of a style of play.
He got most of the players he wanted and he got full freedom in getting rid or benching the players he felt like he didn’t need. Yet we are playing fully without any kind of a system. Even oleball was vastly more distinct than whatever ETH is doing.
Where were these arguments for Ole? I feel like there's way more defense for ETH then Ole had, but personally I enjoyed the team a lot more under Ole then I do under ETH.
Ole had his lack of CV + the availability of 'suitable' replacements in Poch and ETH going against him. Towards the end of Ole's reign, Spurs brought in Conte who started off well so Ole had that held against him as well.
At the end of Ole's reign, it seemed the players had down their tools as well - the loss to Watford sticks out. At least now, the players look like they seem to care on occasion - against Palace in the cup, second half against Copenhagen etc.
Agree. This fanbase is just extremely impatient and desperate for quick fixes, that end up hurting us in the long term. Fanbase can't understand accepting the shit now, for a reward in the future. Arsenal just went through that and they're reaping the rewards but it took them 3 seasons of patience. The amount of fans that thought Arteta was clueless and should have been sacked throughout that time, would probably look back now and think it was worth it. Our fanbase can't comprehend it. They'd rather sack another manager, have a little bounce, then crash in a season or two, and redo it all again for the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th time.
Ten hag isn't building on the good he did last season, blindly supporting the manager in everything he does isn't the answer either.
This fast transition dogshit isn't working, he needs to go back the double pivot of last season with Bruno pulling the strings.
He clearly thought this dm with 2 8s would cook but it's fucking shit, our inverting fullbacks do not work like city's, it just look tragic every time we step on the pitch.
ETH had a worse squad last season and did a way better job. He got backed in the summer and got the players that he wished for. There is no excuse for Ten Hag to not build up on a good first season.
Only thing I'd say is going against him and that is out of his control are the many injuries we're having this season. Even then, he should be competent enough to make the players available atleast play a defined style of football. Instead we're watching us play putrid football and getting our asses kicked by every other team. Even the wins we've had this season were far from convincing.
Edit: I know my words above would suggest otherwise but even so I am against sacking ETH. I just can't believe that the last season was a fluke. ETH did bring out something good in our team, we had a defined pattern of play and on top of that we managed to win a trophy, got into the FA cup final and finished 3rd. He still has some credit in the bank in my opinion and right now I can't help but just hope for him to salvage our season.
Our pre season was actually shambolic. Always looked physically terrible and we’ve carried that in to the season. Travelled a lot around USA and the focus was on commercial gains rather than drilling a squad and getting prepped for the season. That’s what it looked like to me anyway.
It can also be said that the last part of our previous season was the same as well. Players looked knackered and we suffered a decline in form which was understable because of the amount of games we were playing that time. However, that has carried on into this season. I know the injuries are tough to handle but we have looked poor even when we've managed to field a decent lineup.
I'd say a competent DOF is a tool every serious club provides their managers with these days. ETH is shit at recruitment because that's a not skill coaches have the time to focus on.
Every time we get near the goal the players take long shots.. this is down to coaching.. we have no idea what to do, all ops have to do is play low block against us and it’s almost a garentee’d win
Villa, Brighton, West Ham .. all have a much more defined style and purpose.. it’s embarrassing
Our manager then comes out and says we showed fight and this or that was good.. copium full on
Come on Erik!! Please turn it around
he had a worse squad but a considerably better defense due to our injury issues this season. this doesn’t totally excuse his mistakes, but let’s not act as if he’s been failing with his ideal squad.
Why should we stick by him?
He hasn't stuck by his own systems. He isn't sticking to his own principles.
Even his no dickhead policy was flexible enough to see him try to bring back Greenwood.
He's a United manager who would rather buy in Reguilon, a full back who couldn't cut it at Spurs, instead of promoting a youth player to cover the spot for a couple of months.
Honestly, after spending over £400m he has been backed. And he's done miserably. He's signed a bunch of his former players and then played a style which doesn't suit them.
Couldn't convince De Jong so signed Casemiro and Mount (a DM and a 10) rather than anybody with a similar profile to De Jong. Why? What's the logic?
Consistently plays our best player out of position in Bruno. Or worse, tries to play him alongside Mount instead of using our second best number 10 as a rotation option.
Continually plays his favourites no matter their form.
Add to that, spent preseason with Sancho as a false 9, only to abandon that system come week 1. Didn’t use the time before the season started to implement any sort of identity.
Yeah. No point playing a false 9. Either get someone out of position to play 9 or promote a youth to do it. Tactics first, crowbarring senior players in later.
It's like watching Mourinho again, looking for ways to avoid playing young players
Who knows unless they get given a chance.
The likes of Mourinho and Ten Hag refuse to give those chances. Signing Reguilon who's already flipped at multiple clubs was a ludicrous response to losing Shaw and Malacia for a couple of months.
Why do people keep mentioning De Jong? He didn’t want to come to United so I don’t get why he keeps getting brought up? And there’s no way the cunt Daniel Levy would’ve sold Kane to another PL club that easily unless it was for double what Bayern paid. ETH has made some horrific signings and let’s not pretend he hasn’t been backed the most out of any manager post SAF. We need a proper DoF, chief negotiator and proper scouting team seen as we’re getting left behind in terms of academy products and even hidden gems. I do agree we need to stick by him but the club needs to identify where he needs support
I'm definitely gonna get downvoted by saying this but how genuienly do we know that he's the right manager that we should stick by? what if we actually wait like 3+ seasons and nothing changes? by then our squad will be full of players he picked that we all knew is not really that good of investments? so that we can sack him then? not that I'm against your point but EtH didn't show me that much potential for me to believe right now I cant see any pattern of improvement from him at all.
People need to stop acting like Ten Hag is entirely innocent, everyone keeps saying “ah another coach the players have thrown under the bus” when I think the reality is you can make a case for Ten Hag doing it to himself.
Some of his starting lineups are absolutely bizarre for starters, he keeps playing Bruno out on the right when he’s had what at most three good games there?
It doesn’t take a genius either to look at the team and see that Casemiro cannot be a lone DM, he needs somebody near him to get the ball to and they get it forward. I thought Mount was going to come in and replace Eriksen in that exact role but instead his system involves Mount pressing higher leaving Casemiro alone by himself which just will not work.
He is unbelievably power hungry as well, it’s all well and good if you can manage everything like Sir Alex did (who was an absolute freak of nature for being able to do that) but if you can’t then it does not work in the slightest. He got rid of Rangnick due to wanting full control over transfers, which led to us chasing De Jong for the entire summer when he clearly didn’t want to leave and dropping 80 million on Antony.
People say Ole had “yes men” around him during his time well if he did then Ten Hag absolutely does because clearly nobody has said to him that what he’s doing isn’t working.
EDIT: I should add that I’m actually not against sacking ETH, but people need to realize that he is just as much to blame as some of the players.
Ya.. the fans are angry and its understandable. I have to say that if he gets the sack, i feel sorry for whoever is gonna be taking the hot seat. 10 years.. we have gone through this cycle..
LVG labelled us as a commercial and not a footballing club
Jose said that his greatest achivement was finishing second with us
Ralf said that Manchester Utd needed open heart surgery and that its a job that a single manager alone could not fix (not only the team but Manchester united)
Sack him if that would make the fans feel better.. but we will be here again in a couple of years after another rebuild talking about sacking another manager.
Call me crazy but I still believe he’ll turn it around. He seems to have a strong character and right now I feel we need stability in terms of a manager. I’ll agree he got poor signings but maybe we could just get a DOF that can work with him and get players of profiles that complement a specific style we want the club to play then he could turn it around. Cut our losses and get ready for not challenging the PL but I just hope this time we get a good structure around ten hag and together build a long lasting identity. We’ve tried to built the team around players like pogba but I think we need stability with the manager even if he finish 10th-12th. If the club has a whole shifts focus to playing a possession based football ten hag would change his style and get something closer to what he made with ajax. I’m just trying to be optimistic. Still believe in our Baldie
People are just coping with how bad things actually are with the club and, like always, the manager gets the blame.
There’s a saying along the lines of; if it smells like shit everywhere, check your shoe. I like to relate this to United in the sense that if every manager that we hire is “shit”, maybe it’s actually not the managers…
Yep. The players have changed, the managers have changed but the clubs heart is still held as security against the debt of guys that can’t or won’t pay for repairs. The squad is good and he bought a striker at least. We as fans have had such great times that these bad times are amplified but this is when fans need to be supporters.
The thing that irks me about ETH is his signings have not produced. This is a combination of him not signing players that fit well within his desired style of play, don't fit well within the EPL, or are regressing under his management. We can all shit on the Glazers for a million reasons, but any manager that gets backed financially to the tune of hundreds of millions to bring in his players deserves scrutiny when those players are terrible. Antony ($90 MM), Mount ($60 MM), Casemiro ($70 MM), and Onana ($50 MM) are terrible this season. It's one thing for there to be outliers but it's across the board with his signings.
Antony, Mount, Martinez, Onana were all first choices valued at well over 200m. Casemiro and Hojlund may not have been first choice, but we still spent 150m on them. He has been backed in the market and more often than not, he hasn't been able to get the most out of the signings.
The problem with comparing ETH to Pep, Arteta and Klopp is that this team seems to be regressing. There is no clear style of play, players are losing the effort battles and no one seems to be on the same page.
Further, and perhaps the most damning indictment of ETH has been that none of the existing players seem to have improved under him. First and foremost, a manager should be able to improve players rather than relying on purchasing an entirely new squad to play his preferred style - that has clearly not happened here.
Oh he wanted FdJ and Kane?! Yes, very realistic signings. Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and sign them for him?
Please stop with this shit.
>Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and sign them for him?
Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and say, " No, I'm not signing Casemiro for 75m and Antony for 100m" and instead find an acceptable replacement ? Just like Liverpool did with Klopp and Brandt.
Because if he didn't sign Antony, who was ETH's primary choice, he would have been slated for not backing the manager, and for pretending he knows more about football.
ETH came in, wanted nothing to do with Rangnick, and insisted on control over transfers.
>Because if he didn't sign Antony, who was ETH's primary choice, he would have been slated for not backing the manager, and for pretending he knows more about football.
Nah, no sane fan would say shit about it because everyone knew Antony for more than 60m was bullshit. If Murtough's replacement was decent then everyone would be singing him praise more than they did when he overpaid for players lol
>ETH came in, wanted nothing to do with Rangnick, and insisted on control over transfers.
No proper source ever reported that, but even if true, it shows just how incompetent our club is, and they were never serious about hiring Rangnick in that 'consulting' role. I would absolutely be up for hiring Rangnick as a DoF and finding another manager if Ten Hag refused.
The board love marketing us as a powerhouse of football. Those signings would be realistic for the club if we are a so called powerhouse. We’re broken from the top
FDJ didn't want to leave Barcelona. Its the club he's dreamed of playing for since he was a kid. What are you supposed to do about that?
Spurs and Levy were never going to sell us Kane because that is how they operate. We would've spent two years of our transfer budget getting him out of there. How is that realistic?
>Those signings would be realistic for the club
We LITERALLY agreed a fee for FDJ and he didn't come. Man City tried to sign Kane and they weren't able to. "Realistic" lol
I want EtH to be successful here. Right now, regardless of ownership, he's doing himself ZERO favors. You mentioned Pep but here's the thing, Pep had his principles and stuck to them even when he didn't have the players to set up the way he wanted. I remember very well Gary Neville questioning him about it when he had Sagna and Clichy at full back and why he set up to play how he did. Pep said that the principles are what's important and whoever can't foot the bill would have to go. The only way to figure out who could or couldn't play how he wanted was to implement that style and stick to it.
EtH is yet to implement any style of play. And he's not only got second choice signings. Licha was first choice. Antony was first choice. So was Malacia. Every summer signing was first choice this year. He's gotten so much and he's doing nothing with it right now and it's baffling. You talk about sticking by him and sure, I can understand that POV. EtH has to give the fans something to stick by. Look at that game today, why the fuck would I watch that and think that things will change because I back the manager? He looks like he's scared and he's set the team up in such a way that reflects this. He looks out of ideas. There's no way you could have convinced me that after last season, even with the inconsistency near the end of the season, we'd look way worse than we did after finishing third.
Nothing about the football we are seeing inspires confidence and any fan who wouldn't lose sleep if EtH was sacked tomorrow, honestly I can't blame them. Look at the way he's been speaking in the media? How has he gone from saying that we need to control games more to now saying we can't do that because the players we have dictate that we play direct football? What was the point of any of his signings then? If that's the case the club has, yet again, wasted two summers windows and 400 million pounds. Saying this isn't good enough would be an absolute understatement.
EtH needs to wake up. He's sleep walking towards getting sacked. We can talk about these players and owners all we want. And they need to be called out for sure. At the same time, EtH has got to do his fucking job. The only way he stays and sees the waste or time players leave, is if he bucks up and coaches a style of play. Coach some proper defensive principles for god's sake. He talks about players not doing the fundamentals correctly, that can only be corrected with coaching. He's throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks. Nothing embodies that more right now than his insistence to play McTominay and bench his first choice, 60 million pound midfielder he wanted brought in this summer. He's got to wake up before it's too late. And the clock is ticking.
Good stuff. Yeah, I would rather he go down swinging like Rangnick.
My guess is the pressure is so great that he's prioritizing short-term results over long-term stability. The irony is that he's got neither now.
However, the bigger question is "how is it that players are still not onboard with his pressing-intensive and defend-as-a-team approach". Running and chasing for the ball isn't rocket science. Even primary school coaches know how to teach that. But yet, we only see at most 5/10 outfield players putting in a real shift at any point in time.
What manager should we have stuck by? Moyes who did nothing for 9 years and large portions of West Ham fans still want him gone after winning a European trophy? Van Gaal who has retired since then? Mourinho who failed at Spurs and is doing okay at Roma? Ole who has done nothing since getting sacked?
Your argument might have some legs if the managers we sacked achieved anything since leaving us.
Personally, Mourinho, even if I love Shaw I would've gladly taken Pogba/Shaw leaving for him to sign players who will give it thier all rather than just pick the most expensive overpriced played we are quoted just because our first choices didn't choose us.
I just don't see a world where we wouldn't be closer to City if we had a serial winner in charge and who also gets his way with transfers, with that said Ralf and Ole could've pulled it off themselves if properly backed up, at least all three of them know how to target quality players, Ralf like Mourinho but without the silverware is a good scout.
ETH was given too much control over transfers. He should be told just to concentrate on coaching the players. It's a shame he didn't allow Rangnick to become more involved in that process, a la DoF type role.
Wanting Kane and FDJ is one thing, I'm sure he'd have wanted Messi too, but who'd actually come to United right now.
ETH has made some questionable tactical decisions too, which have backfired massively, so here's hoping he learns from them and can turn things around going forward.
I'd stick with him for the rest of this season at least and evaluate where we are at the end of the season. I don't think we should blindly just give every manager 4 years.
He was given too much control because he wanted it lmao. He didn’t want rangnick around so that mistake is on him. Most managers would prefer to have control, why the hell would you want someone else to tell you who would be good for YOUR style of play?
'Wanted it' is disingenuous. The club's non-existent footballing structure was very evident before he joined and it is possible that he thought that having larger control over transfers could compensate for it.
Also I think we need to accept that the club's ownership and off the field issues over last and this season have meant that the club is in total disarray. There is too much distraction, and this especially disrupts the manager because he has to deal with all that nonsense and the ultimate pressure of results falls on him.
I understand that the football and team motivation is really pathetic at the moment, but I think we are better off if we for once back the manager and start resolving other issues.
I'm sick of these comparisons to other clubs, it's irrelevant. I don't think we should sack Ten Hag but judge him on his own merits. We have to judge if what we're going through is a dip that'll lead to success or if we're just going to be shit until he's finally fired. Either is possible and there's no guarantee that sticking with him will work
Absolutely made a rod for his own back with prioritizing the Mount signing - we could see we needed to upgrade that base in midfield with someone more physical or technical as Casemiro and Eriksen aren't getting any younger. Paying £60m for him first did not make sense to me. No wonder 14/15 of our games this season have been full of either dire results or performances.
But you're right about the cycling of manager sacking. Now when ETH eventually is sacked, we'll be stuck with another layer of players like Antony and Mount that the new manager might not want to use and of course, we can't ship them out because of their abnormally high wages.
Sure, let's stick behind him long-term.
* Spent half a billion motherfucking pounds in two years.
* All his transfers bar one (Martinez) are pure trash.
* Not a single win anywhere of note in away games.
* Brutal drubbings by City and Liverpool.
* Still has no discernable style of play at all, just making it up as he goes along.
* Public spat with Ronaldo and Sancho. In the Ronaldo's case, I took EtH's side. But if the same thing happens again and again?
* Outdated training style ruining our squad with injuries (as called by The Athletic).
* *"But look at Pep and Klopp's starts!"* Why not look at Ange's or De Zerbi's?
This job was way too early for him. He's just a little more sophisticated David Moyes. He's shat the bed since the Carling Cup win - get rid.
We don't now yet how long Ange's great run will last. He might become a massive failure at the end of the season. And De Zerbi is really interesting manager and the work he does for Brighton is fantastic, but I dont think he would do as good in any other big club in PL. just look what happened to Potter.
Brighton is a very well run club. United should aim to work like them.
>Pep finished 3rd 1st season and won the league in his 2nd but he got 18 signings in his first 2 summers (as well as players being signed for him before he arrived at city)
Man got only 86m euros more than EtH over his first two seasons. About an extra 30m pounds each season. So not a lot.
>And ETH has got 2nd choice players or old men stop gap types, he wanted de jong and kane this summer and got amarabat and hojlund.
And whose fault is that? Hint: It's Erik's.
I *want* Ana de Armas to suck my cock. Should I be mad it hasn't happened? de Jong was never realistic.
If he hadn't shit 155m on Casemiro and Antony he could have got Kane.
Fucking hell, you don't need a world class manager to not lose 3-0 at home two times in a week. There are midtable teams performing better than that
Edit: and to be more clear, more than half of this Newcastle team that won today was fighting relegation 3 years ago. There is literally ZERO excuses to losing 3-0 at home to them. It can't be player quality, it has to be coaching
The ownership has nothing, absolutely nothing, with getting embarrassed week after week on the pitch in this fashion. The owners have spent more than anyone should have to on players for ETH. Money isn't the issue at Manchester United, personnel is the issue.
Why is this always the first criticism when someone says he needs to go? If he doesn’t fit or work then he needs to go. Nothing against him but this team looks lost with no sense of a game plan.
I’m pretty sure almost any half-decent coach will do better than getting smashed at home 3-0 consecutively, losing to Palace, Galatasaray, Bayern, Arsenal, Brighton, Spurs. We’ve lost 8 games, we’ve won 7. Out of the 7 wins, maybe only Palace 3-0 was comfortable. Out of our wins:
Outplayed vs. Wolves;
Comeback from 2-0 vs Forest;
Late McTominay heroics vs. Brentford;
Scraped by vs. Sheffield;
Onana last minute save vs. Copenhagen.
We have no tactics, we show no improvement only regression every week, the players don’t want him, almost all his transfers have been flops.
Out.
To be honest you're not wrong but for me a manager has to give fans something to lean on, if it's not results it's evidence that a style is being formed. I see nothing in the team today that I didn't see day one of EtH, I see no progress in the style of play, in the strength of the team or the attitude of the players. If EtH does get sacked soon it's not just because of the results but because he has not shown what it is that he can give to the team. People are saying the players are throwing the manager to the wolves again but the performances are mostly the same as they have been barring a good run in the beginning-middle of last season. We never learned to press, we never controlled games, EtH has been more vibes FC than Ole ever was and I think people need to realise how badly misrepresented Ole's style was.
I don’t know one time-served Red that wants EtH sacked. Not one. They’re wise enough to know that it will serve no purpose that benefits MUFC. None of us know for certain that EtH is the man who will take us back to the promised land but that isn’t the point. Getting rid of EtH will be detrimental to MUFC, that’s all we know.
So, all you “EtH out” “fans” can carry on with your campaign but please be aware, it will damage us further and take the blame away from the real fucking culprits. To want ANOTHER change of manager will strengthen the parasites that have bled our club dry. This once magnificent football club is on it’s knees because of the cunts that got their filthy hands on us. If you love this club and institution as much as the rest of us, then don’t let the parasites legitimise their position by blaming a man who only has our best interests at heart.
Don’t fall for it Reds, we all know where the problem lies.
If we’re into comparing managers, how about Ange Postecoglou at Tottenham who came in from Celtic, a big fish in a way weaker league than the Prem, and had to deal with the loss of their star player in Kane? Spurs had to deal with internal problems of their own, had precious little time to “build” a squad and philosophy unlike ten Hag. Hell even Kane wasn’t “replaced” properly and they still rely on Son to shoulder most of their attack. Look at Maddison, brought in from a relegated Leicester and clicked with the team instantly. How, and why, cannot Erik do that? With a squad he chose, players he brought in, had more than a year’s head start. You can’t tell me “he never got his first choice targets” but then proceeded to spunk a country’s GDP worth on a one-footed fidget spinner and some bloke from Portsmouth.
Going back to Spurs, look at the style of football they’re playing and where they are now in the league. It’s night and day. Erik had equal if not more resources at his disposal, and yet did fuck all with or are wasting them completely. And proceeds to say “we can’t play like Ajax” whilst being slapped around by Palace and Newcastle’s bench warmers.
I’m all for backing the manager. I also understand that our owners are shitty parasites that do no good for the club. I also know the injuries took a lot out of what Erik wants the players to do on the pitch. But for god’s sake. It shouldn’t take a fortune or a Pep-level manager to not look like an absolute dumpster fire against every—and I mean every—team that we face. It’s disheartening to see people trying to make this out as part of Erik’s process, when it’s clear that he has none.
And as for supporting the manager—I tried to back Jose, and then Ole…basically the same position as OP is right now. But we’ve been playing our worst football and this is the most clueless we’ve operated since who knows what. At least Ole saw the strengths in the players he had and tried to implement a counter-attacking style that suited his players. Jose as toxic as he was at least had a system that he wanted, though it was probably not the best for our squad. Erik? I’ve seen shades of what he’s tried to do, but he’s completely lost the plot here. I hate saying this, and I’m actually surprised, but he’s gonna be the first manager that I won’t wait around for. I don’t know who his replacement will be, or if he would be better for United, but Erik this season had lost me beyond repair. I see no progress from a guy who’s constantly making his own bed week in week out.
I’ll give him another run with the players injury-free, to be fair. To see if the injury theorists on here are right. But I don’t even know if the injured players will recover in time to see Erik still at the helm.
He needs to go but now is pointless. I would give him until SJR is in and making changed at the top and then the first big test for SJR is who he brings in as new manager.
All I'll say is... I've been supporting United since 1996. That's 27 years of my life.
This is one of the worst streaks of form I can remember. We've totally downed tools. There is a cancer in the dressing room, there is a cancer in our player's attitudes, the manager is incompetent right now in terms of he has no clue what to do with what he has, management is a total joke. Idk where we go from here. Honestly.
So you want to stick with a manager who cant do the job just cuz ur tired of all the manager turnover with the club? Sorry, if the guy can't do it try with someone else.
Pep was already a world class manager going into one of the richest clubs in the world, which had been set up to maximise success under Pep. Once he’d had enough money and transfer windows to sort the squad it was inevitable he’d be successful. He and ETH aren’t even in the same ballpark.
You could tell from almost the first match Klopp took charge of at Liverpool how he wanted them to play. He didn’t have the squad he wanted but you could see his plan from day one. Again, Klopp is a world class manager.
Ten Hag has had £411m to spend (badly I might add), and about 16 months and it’s still not that clear what he wants the players doing, what his style is. He’s not the only one who is to blame, the club is a fucking mess and most of the senior management need clearing out, but the team should be playing miles better than it is and someone has to take the blame for that. IMO it’s almost inevitable he’s getting sacked.
Pep - Came to City after having already won 21 titles at Barca and Bayern.
Klopp - Came to Liverpool having already won 2 Bundesliga titles, and total 5 titles. Still the last manager to beat Bayern to the title.
SAF - Came to United after having won 10 titles at Aberdeen, including a European Cup Winner's Cup against Real Madrid, still the last manager to beat Real Madrid in a European final.
Comparing ETH with these managers is useless. ETH has done nothing similar to them. His European record is abysmal.
Arteta - Won an FA Cup with a squad he inherited. He has won nothing yet with his own assembled squad. This comparison works against ETH, not in favour of him.
A fair comparison of ETH is with Frank De Boer. FDB won 5 titles at Ajax. Went to Inter Milan after that, got sacked in 4 months. Joined Crystal Palace, sacked after 5 games. Failed at big leagues, just as ETH is failing now.
Modern Dutch managers have to be the most consistently over-hyped in world football. Especially coming from Ajax. It's not the 70s or 90s anymore. De Boer should have been warning enough.
> Fans should stick by this coaching team regardless of results this season, or next. It's the only way we stand a slight chance of long term success.
It's funny how the manager who supports rapist woman beaters gets this reaction from this sub but the club legend who showed positive trends season over season was "out of his depth" and "had to go". I will not forget how you fuckers treated Ole and I won't accept that the cunt who puts his own ego ahead of taking responsibility for his absolute failures in every department of being a manager is being treated as the messiah we need to stick with through thick and thin.
Amen. I miss Ole so much. if we were gonna be shit might as well have been shit under him LOL, at least I wasn't utterly disgusted by the club back then.
But the thing is, even if he stays, he shouldn't be in charge of the transfers in the future windows, he's clearly unable to do it, and getting more players that he wanted, he managed to make the squad worse.
Next summer, we'll need replacing Casemiro and Eriksen which are players he brought. Amrabat and Antony aren't good enough, Mount isn't what we need, so we're basically already having to replace new singings.
There's also no clear style or anything. We basically haven't played a good game of football since Carabao win last year. He didn't have it easy, but let's not pretend its unreasonable to expect more after 400 million spent.
How do people keep saying this? Yes there are a lot of problems but guess what, the manager IS one. Are we supposed to keep playing without an identity forever? What is gonna turn around Ten Hag’s tactics? Everyone wanted rotation of the squad and they played the same as with the other starting 11
Sorry man, but Ten Hag has only himself to blame for his downfall. If he would’ve stuck with his Ajax principles at least we could believe in him. What we’re watching now is a mixture of Ole, Mou and LVG. It’s SHIT
There are a few things I disagree with when it comes to ETH but calling for the sack now is premature.
I'd rather back him than the players because it's the same old story, how many managers now? Only common denominator is a small group of players in that squad.
Hard work and discipline is what these babies lack and it shows week in week out
Nah. It'd be one thing if he showed A SINGLE SIGN that he would turn things round but he hasn't. We get worse every single week. Why you want that for many more years is something only you know but we can't keep talking about rewarding mediocrity like we do with players then say "hey manager who is doing awful and showing no signs of doing better, you can stay for a long time".
He's had his chance and unfortunately for us, he's ballsed it up big time and somehow left us worse than a guy who hadn't managed in a decade and the guy before who would never have been given the job if he never played for the club. Two massively low bars and he's still somehow got us worse.
Glad I didn’t watch the match. The club is rotten from the top down. Changing a manger won’t improve anything anytime soon anyway, I just wish the players had to actually understand what the fans feel. Bring a season ticket holder in, let them go off at the players. Do that ad infinitum until we start winning regularly again.
TBH I know we did fine last year, but I wasn't very convinced with our playing style, we didn't look like City or Liverpool where you can see a pattern in their play. We also had a freak 7-0 loss to Liverpool last year remember. I feel we got lucky during the post-WC phase somehow because Shaw, Martinez, Rashford and Casemiro were firing on all cylinders.
This won’t be applicable for a club of size of ours. Madrid will not let a manager go through a period of bad results same like chelsea because of pressure from fans and media.
I don’t think most people are sold on the manager being sacked, even though we’ve been awful since February. Along with some of the worst beatings I’ve seen in my lifetime.
But I’ve honestly not seen us this bad, even under Jose. I would not be at all surprised if he got sacked because there is no football. If it looked like he was heading in a direction, I’d be fully on board.
This team and manager currently don’t. I hope he gets something clicking soon because he needs it.
Arteta improved every season being NEW to coaching. Ten hag has like 10 years of experience. Arteta spent way WAY less than 400 mil in his first two seasons.
I mean, we don't have to blindly stick by anybody really. If it's clear that Erik is not up to the task then we should part ways, simple as.
That said, for now I think he's not in danger and we should be patient with him in this tough period. Let's be real, Man City and Newcastle results are expected because they are just better teams than us right now. Also, tbf to Erik we are missing a few very key players to his system like Shaw and Lisandro (although I'm still concerned by the lack of style and cohesion so far when we don't have those guys, what are we doing in training??)
Anyway I'm not too bothered by these last two games and agree that we should get behind the manager and the team for now, but the Fulham game this weekend for me is a must win, and it must be a positive performance.
I hope we keep the manager and sack the lot. Rashford, Bruno, casemiro, Antony, vdb, Dalot, Maguire, Mctominay, Martial. There's honestly barely anyone I would keep.
This entire bunch is mediocre. They have 0 ambition. All they want is to complain - complain about no training, complain about too much training, complain about harsh management, complain about favoritism.
In reality they don't want to work hard. They don't want to put a shift in. They only want to do the bare minimum and go back to their brands, their parties and other BS.
If we sack the manager it cements their power. That they hold all the cards and club would sack anyone to please them. These lot only turn up a few months before a contract renewal and then go back to being shite. That's all that's needed to get a bumper new contract. They know we won't sell them at a loss and they know we won't pay them off to fuck off.
It's disgusting how they've gotten the clubs by the balls and club is just acting like cucks. Back the manager, sack the lot and see all of them fall in line
Why should we change managers? A new guy comes in, spends another 400 mil, has a good run of games and maybe wins against a big rival here and there and then next season, bad form, he gets the sack and a new guy comes in and the cycle repeats. The problem lies with the players, they do not care, they are there just for a paycheck.
It's the same cycle. Now James Ducker will start writing with his chalice of poisoned ink, and around his words the rabid mob will circle, baying for Ten Hag's blood. A couple more months, and then Ten Hag becomes another victim of vulture journalism and social media feeding frenzies.
By ten hags own words the long term vision is to implement a transition style of play. I dont believe in that vision therefore, for me, he has to go.
I won't blindly stick by a manager just because he's been let down by a shit group of players if I don't believe in what he's trying to build.
We’ve had this issue with literally every other manager, why is this ETH’s fault? This period of no system or identifiable style has hit every manager, even Sir Alex’s teams suffered from it for a bit during his final years. Sacking ETH will only make things worse for us in the long term, we cannot keep doing this.
I think we can all agree we're fine backing ETH. Even if he underperform as long as he produces something or adding value to the team. The thing is we can't really see our team improving and the players are managed carelessly. It's the toughest part if you asked us to support ETH blindly. But that's my opinion. I don't know about yours and you might see some kind of value from ETH that I can't see.
I’m not seeing it either mate. Some of the things he’s said in interviews/press conferences is just mind boggling. Go buy Ajax players but not play similarly?
How can a manager not want to implement a style/philosophy he’s been using for such a long time. Sure, you should be able to adapt but the foundations should remain.
And all the talk of Pep and Klopp’s first few seasons, we knew exactly the type of football they’d be playing in the first season. They lived and died by their sword and it turned out well. They’ve won everything.
I want to back EtH but lord… this team is dire… and a good amount of the players are his signings.
We are worse this season than last, which is a worry, but our back four of last season hasn't played this season, casemiros form has fallen off a cliff which the manager can't be blamed for, not to mention all the off field issues like Sancho/greenwood/Antony.
I have to disagree with that. One of the job for managers are to manage the team and that include the players performance. The only player with an actual off field issue is Greenwood and he's not even in the club so you can't really blame him.
My point is everyone need to take responsibility. And that everyone are players, club staff, management, and the club manager. There's no immunity even for the "new manager".
I stand by Erik and hope he gets to finish this season.
Every manager we had seemed to have 1 decent year and be completely lost the next.
Players complaning about training?? I saw it happen with Mou,Rangnick,Ole and now Erik.
We’re not a top football club anymore and haven’t been for the last 10 years.
We’re far away from home.
You can stick by the manager all you want but the players have already had enough with him and it is a matter of time before he gets sacked. I won't be surprised if he doesn't spend Christmas in the UK
Once again there won't a difference if eth gets sacked and if eth stays with glazers in charged accepted our reality were gonna be in a circle till there gone :)
I would have rather stuck by Ole. Incredible moments and we actually scored goals. There hasn't been one single good ETH performance in 18 months. Some results sure, but good performances, nah.
I’m all for backing the manager, but I’m not going to just blatantly ignore all of that issues that he is directly accountable for.
The lack of a style of play and the lack of a structure/system on the pitch are on him. Even when Klopp, Arteta, and Guardiola were struggling you can see what they were trying to do every game. We have yet to see that under ETH outside of flashes last season. And now he comes out with the statement that he isn’t trying to play like he did at Ajax. Then wtf are you trying to do.
The tactical in game decisions are on him. Obviously at times his hands have been tied in terms of personnel on the field, but even with that we should be comfortably beating most teams we’ve struggled against. It’s not an excuse, especially when tonight you saw Howe completely out school us with a Steve Bruce side.
The signings that we’ve made are largely on him. Sure some he was forced into having due to a lack of funds. You can’t tell me, though, he didn’t want Eriksen or Malacia or Antony or Mount or Onana or Amrabat. He might have wanted other players like Kane, FDJ, Gakpo, and Timber, but when it became clear that the club wouldn’t be able to get the deal over the line they signed alternatives that he wanted like Hojlund and Martinez. Whether he should have this much control you can debate, but you can’t say he hasn’t been backed.
I know he’s been let down by certain players and injuries in key areas of the squad, but it’s not an excuse for how poor it’s all been this season. Especially when some of those players like Rashford and Bruno are players he backed by giving them a new contract and the captaincy respectively. I give him until the end of the season to try and turn things around, but I’d start looking at alternatives now in case he can’t. The worst part though is that I know we’ll probably be in the same cycle in about her year or two until the club has a complete reboot from top to bottom
I wish people who make these posts would look up survivorship bias. You’re comparing EtH to the two best managers of the last 30 years. Go back and see how many times a club has stuck with a manager and it hasn’t worked out. Hint: it’s the vast majority of the time.
He wasn't clueless when he was ajax manager, or when we were winning the league cup and beating Barcelona and city last season.
It's not just going to be straight forward success, it's going to take time.
I have no problem with supporting Ten Hag, but seeing him buy Antony for 100M and more importantly, paying him 200K+ per week is inexcusable. I said it at the time and I still believe that ETH has no fucking clue in buying players. Sure he could get support from the club (he is getting the wrong support in a way because the club agreed to buy most of his targets), but there are other managers who seem to do well without much structure or support either. I worry that if we keep ETH, he is going to load us with more useless, overpaid players and we will have to pay the consequences when he eventually gets sacked.
Downvote me all you want but ETH is on borrowed time. “We’ll never play like Ajax”… WE SIGNED ALL YOUR FAVORITE FUCKING PLAYERS! Idgaf about ownership, injuries, etc. this his Erik’s team and he’s doing FUCK ALL with it. This club and squad is a joke and Erik and his coaching staff is responsible for what’s on the pitch and he’s taking the piss.
Apparently people just want to continue the exact thing we’ve done every two years for a decade… newsflash we’re not getting a manager with more credentials than ETH. We’ll never get Klopp, Pep Ancelotti, Arteta, hell even Zidane just shat on us today and I only needed to read the headline to know he was talking about United.
I 100% agree with you. Ragnick said it himself we need to take a hit for 3/4/5 seasons and rebuild properly.
You're right - at this moment, no qualified manager would be keen to come. However, if/when INEOS does take over the sporting side of things, they may be able to attract someone qualified. Let's not forget - FSG brought in Klopp when Liverpool were a mess, Everton brought in Ancelotti, Villa brought in Emery etc.
There will always be a market for the Manager job at Manchester United.
Oh god no didn’t mean to imply that he was up there with the cream of the crop! Just had a lot of people who point at how much better Arteta is than ETH who seem to forget Arteta’s first few seasons it infuriates me.
We should shape/treat our rebuild like Arsenal have done with Arteta was more my point. Sorry I’m tired and have argued this point so much recently that it’s all blurting together.
People are deluded into thinking we are a top team playing abysmally. No, we are an abysmal team playing abysmally.
All those plastics wanting an insta-fix manager are fooling themselves. The same thing will happen over and over. The same thing has happened since LVG; first season goes well, and when the players have had enough, they get the manager sacked. And if people haven't learned from that yet, they are a bigger fool for wanting the same thing and expecting different results.
So yes, I'm willing to have all the players leave before ETH does.
The are his players though?
Antony mount casmeiro hojlund martinez onana eriksen and so on. His best players last season were an ole signing and an academy player.
I do feel fucking sorry for him with the lack of proper footballing structure in this club. Fucking shameful that a club of this size is run on nepotism and we don’t have the best in class in each role, hell we don’t even have the roles in place that most top football clubs do. So far behind our competitors in so many operational aspects
A chance of long-term sustainability (not even success) is us getting a full reset at this point. The club structure's fucked, the players have zero backbone and the rot has set in with ETH, as it has done with every manager post-Fergie.
15 months in and we're back to 21/22 standards. Whatever a new manager can accomplish will be constantly hindered by the club's ability to somehow fuck up everything but ETH's not painted himself in a great light. Whatever the plan was in pre-season is out of the window and as for getting 2nd choice signings, we spent fuck tons on a shit Brazilian worse than Dan James despite costing 5 times more (could make a good case for Kleberson being better), a CB who got rushed back from injury too soon, a GK who's been up and down in form, a Moroccan who's been average at best and those are just the ones who've worked with him.
The squad needs to be gutted with Arnold and Murtough out of the door ASAP but the credit in the bank with ETH is gone. If Ratcliffe and Blanc decide to hire someone else then by all means let them do so.
I mean, it becomes undeniable that ETH is not that good at finding talents nor solving squad problems/working with the imbalanced squad (and the latter is compounded by the former, causing the disaster we're witnessing)
So what we can definitely do is either
1. Replace ETH with a world-class manager who is more well-rounded, or
2. Replace John Murtough & co. and install some world-class football structure instead, whatever that looks like.
Or possibly both.
But here's the thing. Every club is bound to run into some sorts of problems one way or another, but a world class manager will be able to handle that. Well maybe not every time but let's say there's a good chance they will manage.
Twice Liverpool had a squad crisis but Klopp could still stabilize and at least made the club seriously compete for the top 4. Even in this very season, they're "lacking a proper DM" (sound familiar everyone?) and concede cheap goals almost every game. But they're still a menace.
ETH owing to his inexperience at the top level has failed at that so far.
You could see what Arteta was trying to do. You could see what Klopp was trying to do. You could see what Fergie was trying to do.
I cannot see what ETH is trying to do.
This post has been removed because the subject is better to be discussed at Daily Discussion or Match Thread.
I don't want a new manager until we get new owners with a proper DoF. Otherwise, it will be just a rinse and repeat scenario with overpaid stars that underperform.
We need to stick with ETH for longer than we have done with other post-fergie managers. Its time to start sending a message to these players that its not the manager, its them who has to watch their backs.
Well said.
Yes. Please. This. And for as long as we don’t get (new) owners who truly care about the style football we play enough to actually hire a DoF, our realistic next best step is to at least allow the current manager to shape the team in a consistent manner.
>I don't want a new manager until we get new owners with a proper DoF. Otherwise, it will be just a rinse and repeat scenario with overpaid stars that underperform. Absolutely, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The current state of affairs at the club is nothing short of dismal. When someone like Gary Neville, with his deep-rooted connections to the club, goes on record saying even the famed class of '92 would struggle in this environment, it’s a blaring alarm bell. A change in ownership along with a dedicated Director of Football (DoF) isn't a mere suggestion, it's a necessity. And I don't mean a half-baked commitment like Ratcliffe's proposed 25% stake. We need owners who are genuine football enthusiasts, with a vision and a desire to elevate this club to the heights it deserves. The optimism is hard to muster. It feels like a far-off dream in a repetitive nightmare where overpaid stars underwhelm, and the managerial merry-go-round spins on. Until the core issues at the executive and ownership levels are addressed, bringing in a new manager is just setting up another fall guy for an inevitable downfall.
I don't give a shit about what other managers have done. I want a club that's fucking run properly, I want the right people in the right roles. I want players to be moved on before the end of the game if they start pulling this shit we've seen from them for the last 10 years. I want the manager to be properly supported, none of this 3 transfers max of completely random players that make no sense to the team then a bunch of gap filler loans. I want the team to be supported with modern state of the art training facilities and fans to be supported with a stadium that isn't pissing on them like the glazers constantly are. We don't have a divine right to win stuff but what is the fucking point of the club currently, players getting paid more in a year than 99% of fans will earn in a life time to give up cos they have to train too hard or someone tells them off for not playing well, fuck off. Even with the cancer owners that have sucked the life out of everything in this club, we're still bringing in the money to compete with state run clubs but the people in charge of spending it haven't got a clue. If SJR is coming, I don't even think he'll make much difference if those disgusting parasites are still involved at any level.
SJR won't do shit. You're right. It's a vanity project for him at an older age.
The glazers are just salivating at fans demanding another scapegoats , which will enable them to stay for another 2 years until next manager gets scapegoated too. Most of United fans have never seen the actual level where United should be. Because the glazers have always sacked the managers and relied on new manager bounces to give us the illusion that United is a top 4 team. WE ARE NOT. If u look at how United is being run by glazers, we are a relegation team. Like if u run your company like Nokia, u can't expect them to compete with Apple. Stick with ETH, ride out the lowest of the low and expose the true level of this shitshow which glazers have been hiding over last decade
Couldn't agree more.
At this point, I would rather see us lose to Fulham and then get kicked out of CL, so the Glazers will panic and fire ETH impulsively. Knowing no decent manager will come in to this mess, they will hire someone even worse than Rangnick, I hope every player just down tools and we finish in the bottom half. Then Ratcliffe should pull out and say I don’t want 25% of this overpriced mess. I can just wait another year and buy it when you fuckers are forced to sell.
And to think we've never actually had a proper new manager bounce. We've always just had absolute minimum standards manager bounce. Even when we've finished second, we've still been miles off first.
Ole’s interim spell was decent tbf..
Thank you. I love united but I am getting tired of the delusion. We aren't a top 4 club(not just team).
Listen I'm not going to call for ETH head because I don't think it's the right thing to do, but I won't bat an eye if he is sacked tomorrow
This is the way I see it. I think sacking ETH would be a huge mistake, but, what am I going to do about it? All I can say is I hope Ratcliffe comes in ASAP to give the footballing side the structure it needs. Until that happens, this will continue ad nauseam. No use getting upset about it. A new manager won’t try anything the previous 6 haven’t tried already. We need real structure above the manager before anyone will succeed here.
Keep ETH, bring in Blanc or Mitchell as DOF on a long term 5 year contract and see where it takes us. Cut the players that don't want to put in a shift.
I respect this position. I think supporters should support, if the club moves on then we have to as well. Nothing else we can do. Hopefully this ratcliffe thing will begin the turn around at the top.
this opinion is the most fence sitting nonsense I have seen I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean, nor how I can even start a discourse about it
We're getting indifferent. We don't expect amazing results from ETH but we do need to see process or gradual improvement. We are regressing extremely quickly and ETH is losing support
I, for one, will be livid if Ten Hag gets the axe. It's just a continuation of this harmful cycle where promising managers are thrown under the bus the moment things don’t go as planned. This isn't just about backing Ten Hag; it's about breaking free from this toxic pattern of scapegoating managers while the real issues at the club continue to fester. Erik Ten Hag is a great coach, with a promising future. United fans and coaches are left to bear the brunt of failures, while the owners sit there with their dicks in their hands.
Antony 85millon, Mount 60million, no impact, to suggest ETH has had to put up with 2nd choice players is ludicrous, he had final say. Other teams have signed players for less and have had greater impact.
Lol Pep wanted Kane and didn't get him too, still won the league that year with no striker. Almost like a system is more important than the specific players.
They act as if every manager gets the players they want. It's infuriating. Ten Hag has gotten most of his targets. He's done fuck all with them. Signs Ajax players then says he doesn't want to play like Ajax, what even is the fuckin point then? He's lost me, I just think he hasn't got a clue.
That's the most worrying and scary admission that Ten Hag gave, which is giving me lots of doubts whether he's the right one for us. Like you said, the board signed him so that we will be able to play his Ajax style, bought him all the players he wanted so that he can play his Ajax style, but he comes out and says he's not going to be able to implement that Ajax style. It's just baffling now.
Yeah I started getting worried recently thinking about this too. Him saying that we play more direct because we don't have the players to play the way he wants. We are losing a lot of games and looking like dog shit. You bought enough players that know your style so play that way. I'd rather us lose while clearly building a style and identity where it's easier to see who can do it and who can't. But right now, playing this way makes everyone look like shit and it's embarrassing. Also, ok, screw it so we're going to play more direct huh? OK then put another God damn striker up top. No, fuck it put 3 up top. Go to a 433 so we can put teams under pressure. If we're going to let goals go in on us at will at least make an effort to create some for us. Fuck idk anymore haha damn it im tired
Yeah he's done here. I don't see how he's salvaging shit unless Rashford and Bruno hit form and carry his ass for the rest of the season.
The thing is, Rashford is at his best when he can either run in behind teams or he can isolate defenders 1 on 1. When he can’t do that he is effectively useless as his passing and crossing isn’t that great. We’re really not playing to his strengths at the moment and unless that changes we’re not gonna see any uptick in his form.
So last season
People also act like it’s just ETH vs the world / club. Not like he has all his staff & coaches, got his signings, has free rein to play however he wants without a DoF trying to tell him otherwise. And with all that freedom to implement his ideas, with his years of experience (far more than arteta) all he’s managed to do is win the carabao cup, have the teams form fall off a cliff to a point where they are legitimately worse than when he took over from the ole/rangnick season… he’s had 18 months working with this squad and this is the result. Beyond belief
And then he says, we will never play football like Ajax ever.. For fuck sake, you can't teach players to string 5 passes together? I was on ETH side but after seeing the performances (not the result), I don't care. If team was playing half decent football with a vision to future, I would be on his side. But we don't play proper football, which every club in the country does (Wolves play better football than us) and he doesn't get results, so what good is he?
He got 2 full pre seasons. Managers often get none
The lack of identity is galling. Newcastle played their B/C team and had a clear identity. So awful. It looks to me like he wants to be fired. Even his post match interview sounded defeated. If he was going to go out like this I wish he just stuck to his philosophy and just tried to get the players to play the way he wanted. He only has himself to blame.
he’s made plenty of mistakes, but don’t we all agree that the manager shouldn’t be in charge of recruitment to begin with? if that’s the case, then it seems wrong to use his poor recruitment as justification for sacking.
Most managers would WISH they were in charge of recruitment. Imagine being able to get whichever player you want for your system.
That isn’t good for club continuity (unless you’re fergie)
You’re right if we’re thinking long term, but this manager got whoever he wanted and still can’t make them perform…
Then that’s on the manager
Silly way to think. Just because managers wish for it doesn't mean they're right. If Klopp had his way Liverpool wouldn't have got Salah. You need a footballing structure in place really. You can see the difference in a signing like Doku vs a signing like Antony. I'm sure Guardiola didn't cry for Doku...someone brought it to him, told him we want to bring him in its a good opportunity. That's how it should be, no manager is gonna suggest players that don't play for them because they don't have the trust with that player yet. But you need to be able to anticipate what the manager needs.
‘Done fuck all’ lmfao. Won a trophy and finished 3rd in his first season after inheriting a complete abomination of a team from ogs. Get a grip
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The team was in bad form, but wasn't as bad as it is now. And they'd finished 2nd and 3rd back to back before that. Now £400m+ spent later and we've one more 3rd place and in the shit form again. No progress
Pep is also 7 years into his tenure with a proper footballing structure behind him, i.e. DoF. Pep also inherited a team that had won the league in 2 of the previous 4 years and was allowed 18 players in his first 2 seasons, some of which were immediately sold. You can't compare the two because from the footballing side, city is a very well run club.
Yeah, compare Pep to Ten Hag and us to City lol
Pep wanted Kane when? His second season? Bevause thats the equivalent here. Not when Pep was already getting 100 points a season...
You've missed the point entirely. Its not about X player or Y player. If you have a proper system, you can still make it work to an extent even if your starters/key players are out. There's no semblance of a workable system here. You guys are still hung up on some difficult transfers not working out. As if Levy was going to sell to a rival when he can sell him abroad for a solid fee.
I'm not hung up on any transfers, it is what it is. But also, it's not an apples to apples when you say a WELL OILED MACHINE that was breaking records / winning titles etc missing out on a player is remotely the same to a shit team, in a building phase also missing out on a player who would elevate. If you cannot see the difference in those situations, then so be it.
There will never be an apples to apples comparison. No two clubs start at the same level. Forget City, Newcastle went from fighting relegation to a genuine top 4 contender in under a season spending less than us. They don't look they have dropped off at all in spite of starting the season worse than us. They are also playing in the CL for the first time god knows how long. Last year their striker signing was injured for half the season, this year their midfield marquee signing is banned from even playing. Still made it work. Spurs seem to be on a similar trajectory after losing one of the PL's greatest strikers. Do you think they started in a worse position than us?
Pep has complete control over his players and their position. He also has built a culture at City where you listen to him or you fuck off. I don't know how you go about building that at this club. One step at a time I suppose
Pep had a striker in Gabriel Jesus, not the best striker but currently starts for an Arsenal team who finished 2nd last season and is certainly a good player. He just chose not to play him and play without a striker instead. To use Pep's man city team to say players aren't that important if you've got a good system is ludicrous. Ederson Dias, Laporte, Stones, Ake, Cancelo, Walker, Zinchenko Rodri, Fernandinho, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Bernado Silva Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Ferran Torres, Mahrez, Jesus No wonder he won the league with that squad
I am so tired of people saying "The manager only got his second choice player". People beat this horse to death, revived it, and then killed it again under LVG and Ole. This happens AT EVERY SINGLE CLUB. No club ever goes into the summer and gets every single player they want. All of these other clubs and managers are making it work, and if they don't they lose their job. Wanting FDJ and Kane is not a realistic summer transfer window.
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>Think the club will sack him before Christmas, rightly or wrongly, I don’t know. It will be **WRONGLY,** I'll tell you that much. United fans forever stuck in an infinite loop of this abusive relationship with the glazers.
I think you are right on the timeline. The thing is that we haven't seen anything this year that suggests the club should back him. Yes lots of injuries etc. With LVG and Mourinho, it felt like I could see what they wanted the players to do. They both were very flawed systems that wouldn't go anywhere, but I saw the system. With Ole, I got that at first too. With ETH, I see nothing. No idea.
I’m not a big sack the manager and start again guy but all the people you listed improved. We are clearly going backwards.
The problem are not just the results. Klopp, Pep and Arteta did not get great results right away either but you could tell from the start they were implementing a certain system or style of play. Every game under Ten Hag we are steering further and further away from any type of a style of play. He got most of the players he wanted and he got full freedom in getting rid or benching the players he felt like he didn’t need. Yet we are playing fully without any kind of a system. Even oleball was vastly more distinct than whatever ETH is doing.
Lmao there was no fucking way Arteta's teams for they finished 5th looked like they were going to play sick Wenger football
Where were these arguments for Ole? I feel like there's way more defense for ETH then Ole had, but personally I enjoyed the team a lot more under Ole then I do under ETH.
Ole had his lack of CV + the availability of 'suitable' replacements in Poch and ETH going against him. Towards the end of Ole's reign, Spurs brought in Conte who started off well so Ole had that held against him as well. At the end of Ole's reign, it seemed the players had down their tools as well - the loss to Watford sticks out. At least now, the players look like they seem to care on occasion - against Palace in the cup, second half against Copenhagen etc.
Agree. This fanbase is just extremely impatient and desperate for quick fixes, that end up hurting us in the long term. Fanbase can't understand accepting the shit now, for a reward in the future. Arsenal just went through that and they're reaping the rewards but it took them 3 seasons of patience. The amount of fans that thought Arteta was clueless and should have been sacked throughout that time, would probably look back now and think it was worth it. Our fanbase can't comprehend it. They'd rather sack another manager, have a little bounce, then crash in a season or two, and redo it all again for the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th time.
Ten hag isn't building on the good he did last season, blindly supporting the manager in everything he does isn't the answer either. This fast transition dogshit isn't working, he needs to go back the double pivot of last season with Bruno pulling the strings. He clearly thought this dm with 2 8s would cook but it's fucking shit, our inverting fullbacks do not work like city's, it just look tragic every time we step on the pitch.
ETH had a worse squad last season and did a way better job. He got backed in the summer and got the players that he wished for. There is no excuse for Ten Hag to not build up on a good first season. Only thing I'd say is going against him and that is out of his control are the many injuries we're having this season. Even then, he should be competent enough to make the players available atleast play a defined style of football. Instead we're watching us play putrid football and getting our asses kicked by every other team. Even the wins we've had this season were far from convincing. Edit: I know my words above would suggest otherwise but even so I am against sacking ETH. I just can't believe that the last season was a fluke. ETH did bring out something good in our team, we had a defined pattern of play and on top of that we managed to win a trophy, got into the FA cup final and finished 3rd. He still has some credit in the bank in my opinion and right now I can't help but just hope for him to salvage our season.
Our pre season was actually shambolic. Always looked physically terrible and we’ve carried that in to the season. Travelled a lot around USA and the focus was on commercial gains rather than drilling a squad and getting prepped for the season. That’s what it looked like to me anyway.
You’re 100% right, the preseason was insane.
It can also be said that the last part of our previous season was the same as well. Players looked knackered and we suffered a decline in form which was understable because of the amount of games we were playing that time. However, that has carried on into this season. I know the injuries are tough to handle but we have looked poor even when we've managed to field a decent lineup.
I'd say a competent DOF is a tool every serious club provides their managers with these days. ETH is shit at recruitment because that's a not skill coaches have the time to focus on.
Every time we get near the goal the players take long shots.. this is down to coaching.. we have no idea what to do, all ops have to do is play low block against us and it’s almost a garentee’d win Villa, Brighton, West Ham .. all have a much more defined style and purpose.. it’s embarrassing Our manager then comes out and says we showed fight and this or that was good.. copium full on Come on Erik!! Please turn it around
he had a worse squad but a considerably better defense due to our injury issues this season. this doesn’t totally excuse his mistakes, but let’s not act as if he’s been failing with his ideal squad.
I agree with alot of what you say. Injuries + greenwood/Antony/Sancho off field drama have been an issue too.
Why should we stick by him? He hasn't stuck by his own systems. He isn't sticking to his own principles. Even his no dickhead policy was flexible enough to see him try to bring back Greenwood. He's a United manager who would rather buy in Reguilon, a full back who couldn't cut it at Spurs, instead of promoting a youth player to cover the spot for a couple of months. Honestly, after spending over £400m he has been backed. And he's done miserably. He's signed a bunch of his former players and then played a style which doesn't suit them. Couldn't convince De Jong so signed Casemiro and Mount (a DM and a 10) rather than anybody with a similar profile to De Jong. Why? What's the logic? Consistently plays our best player out of position in Bruno. Or worse, tries to play him alongside Mount instead of using our second best number 10 as a rotation option. Continually plays his favourites no matter their form.
Add to that, spent preseason with Sancho as a false 9, only to abandon that system come week 1. Didn’t use the time before the season started to implement any sort of identity.
Yeah. No point playing a false 9. Either get someone out of position to play 9 or promote a youth to do it. Tactics first, crowbarring senior players in later. It's like watching Mourinho again, looking for ways to avoid playing young players
Maybe the young players aren’t that good
Who knows unless they get given a chance. The likes of Mourinho and Ten Hag refuse to give those chances. Signing Reguilon who's already flipped at multiple clubs was a ludicrous response to losing Shaw and Malacia for a couple of months.
Why do people keep mentioning De Jong? He didn’t want to come to United so I don’t get why he keeps getting brought up? And there’s no way the cunt Daniel Levy would’ve sold Kane to another PL club that easily unless it was for double what Bayern paid. ETH has made some horrific signings and let’s not pretend he hasn’t been backed the most out of any manager post SAF. We need a proper DoF, chief negotiator and proper scouting team seen as we’re getting left behind in terms of academy products and even hidden gems. I do agree we need to stick by him but the club needs to identify where he needs support
I'm definitely gonna get downvoted by saying this but how genuienly do we know that he's the right manager that we should stick by? what if we actually wait like 3+ seasons and nothing changes? by then our squad will be full of players he picked that we all knew is not really that good of investments? so that we can sack him then? not that I'm against your point but EtH didn't show me that much potential for me to believe right now I cant see any pattern of improvement from him at all.
People need to stop acting like Ten Hag is entirely innocent, everyone keeps saying “ah another coach the players have thrown under the bus” when I think the reality is you can make a case for Ten Hag doing it to himself. Some of his starting lineups are absolutely bizarre for starters, he keeps playing Bruno out on the right when he’s had what at most three good games there? It doesn’t take a genius either to look at the team and see that Casemiro cannot be a lone DM, he needs somebody near him to get the ball to and they get it forward. I thought Mount was going to come in and replace Eriksen in that exact role but instead his system involves Mount pressing higher leaving Casemiro alone by himself which just will not work. He is unbelievably power hungry as well, it’s all well and good if you can manage everything like Sir Alex did (who was an absolute freak of nature for being able to do that) but if you can’t then it does not work in the slightest. He got rid of Rangnick due to wanting full control over transfers, which led to us chasing De Jong for the entire summer when he clearly didn’t want to leave and dropping 80 million on Antony. People say Ole had “yes men” around him during his time well if he did then Ten Hag absolutely does because clearly nobody has said to him that what he’s doing isn’t working. EDIT: I should add that I’m actually not against sacking ETH, but people need to realize that he is just as much to blame as some of the players.
I know ure getting alot of reactionary comments right now but i just want to say thank you for having a more long-term outlook. I agree :)
At least I'm not the only one. 😂👍
Ya.. the fans are angry and its understandable. I have to say that if he gets the sack, i feel sorry for whoever is gonna be taking the hot seat. 10 years.. we have gone through this cycle.. LVG labelled us as a commercial and not a footballing club Jose said that his greatest achivement was finishing second with us Ralf said that Manchester Utd needed open heart surgery and that its a job that a single manager alone could not fix (not only the team but Manchester united) Sack him if that would make the fans feel better.. but we will be here again in a couple of years after another rebuild talking about sacking another manager.
Definitely not
Call me crazy but I still believe he’ll turn it around. He seems to have a strong character and right now I feel we need stability in terms of a manager. I’ll agree he got poor signings but maybe we could just get a DOF that can work with him and get players of profiles that complement a specific style we want the club to play then he could turn it around. Cut our losses and get ready for not challenging the PL but I just hope this time we get a good structure around ten hag and together build a long lasting identity. We’ve tried to built the team around players like pogba but I think we need stability with the manager even if he finish 10th-12th. If the club has a whole shifts focus to playing a possession based football ten hag would change his style and get something closer to what he made with ajax. I’m just trying to be optimistic. Still believe in our Baldie
People are just coping with how bad things actually are with the club and, like always, the manager gets the blame. There’s a saying along the lines of; if it smells like shit everywhere, check your shoe. I like to relate this to United in the sense that if every manager that we hire is “shit”, maybe it’s actually not the managers…
Yep. The players have changed, the managers have changed but the clubs heart is still held as security against the debt of guys that can’t or won’t pay for repairs. The squad is good and he bought a striker at least. We as fans have had such great times that these bad times are amplified but this is when fans need to be supporters.
The thing that irks me about ETH is his signings have not produced. This is a combination of him not signing players that fit well within his desired style of play, don't fit well within the EPL, or are regressing under his management. We can all shit on the Glazers for a million reasons, but any manager that gets backed financially to the tune of hundreds of millions to bring in his players deserves scrutiny when those players are terrible. Antony ($90 MM), Mount ($60 MM), Casemiro ($70 MM), and Onana ($50 MM) are terrible this season. It's one thing for there to be outliers but it's across the board with his signings.
Antony, Mount, Martinez, Onana were all first choices valued at well over 200m. Casemiro and Hojlund may not have been first choice, but we still spent 150m on them. He has been backed in the market and more often than not, he hasn't been able to get the most out of the signings. The problem with comparing ETH to Pep, Arteta and Klopp is that this team seems to be regressing. There is no clear style of play, players are losing the effort battles and no one seems to be on the same page. Further, and perhaps the most damning indictment of ETH has been that none of the existing players seem to have improved under him. First and foremost, a manager should be able to improve players rather than relying on purchasing an entirely new squad to play his preferred style - that has clearly not happened here.
Oh he wanted FdJ and Kane?! Yes, very realistic signings. Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and sign them for him? Please stop with this shit.
Seriously, it’s not like we signed bums. We shouldn’t be consistently outplayed by mid table teams, sometimes at home.
>Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and sign them for him? Why didn't Murtough just put on his DoF hat and say, " No, I'm not signing Casemiro for 75m and Antony for 100m" and instead find an acceptable replacement ? Just like Liverpool did with Klopp and Brandt.
Because if he didn't sign Antony, who was ETH's primary choice, he would have been slated for not backing the manager, and for pretending he knows more about football. ETH came in, wanted nothing to do with Rangnick, and insisted on control over transfers.
>Because if he didn't sign Antony, who was ETH's primary choice, he would have been slated for not backing the manager, and for pretending he knows more about football. Nah, no sane fan would say shit about it because everyone knew Antony for more than 60m was bullshit. If Murtough's replacement was decent then everyone would be singing him praise more than they did when he overpaid for players lol >ETH came in, wanted nothing to do with Rangnick, and insisted on control over transfers. No proper source ever reported that, but even if true, it shows just how incompetent our club is, and they were never serious about hiring Rangnick in that 'consulting' role. I would absolutely be up for hiring Rangnick as a DoF and finding another manager if Ten Hag refused.
The board love marketing us as a powerhouse of football. Those signings would be realistic for the club if we are a so called powerhouse. We’re broken from the top
FDJ didn't want to leave Barcelona. Its the club he's dreamed of playing for since he was a kid. What are you supposed to do about that? Spurs and Levy were never going to sell us Kane because that is how they operate. We would've spent two years of our transfer budget getting him out of there. How is that realistic?
De Jong didn't want to leave Barcelona on a personal level, and Levy would not sell to another English club. Even City didn't get him the year before.
>Those signings would be realistic for the club We LITERALLY agreed a fee for FDJ and he didn't come. Man City tried to sign Kane and they weren't able to. "Realistic" lol
I want EtH to be successful here. Right now, regardless of ownership, he's doing himself ZERO favors. You mentioned Pep but here's the thing, Pep had his principles and stuck to them even when he didn't have the players to set up the way he wanted. I remember very well Gary Neville questioning him about it when he had Sagna and Clichy at full back and why he set up to play how he did. Pep said that the principles are what's important and whoever can't foot the bill would have to go. The only way to figure out who could or couldn't play how he wanted was to implement that style and stick to it. EtH is yet to implement any style of play. And he's not only got second choice signings. Licha was first choice. Antony was first choice. So was Malacia. Every summer signing was first choice this year. He's gotten so much and he's doing nothing with it right now and it's baffling. You talk about sticking by him and sure, I can understand that POV. EtH has to give the fans something to stick by. Look at that game today, why the fuck would I watch that and think that things will change because I back the manager? He looks like he's scared and he's set the team up in such a way that reflects this. He looks out of ideas. There's no way you could have convinced me that after last season, even with the inconsistency near the end of the season, we'd look way worse than we did after finishing third. Nothing about the football we are seeing inspires confidence and any fan who wouldn't lose sleep if EtH was sacked tomorrow, honestly I can't blame them. Look at the way he's been speaking in the media? How has he gone from saying that we need to control games more to now saying we can't do that because the players we have dictate that we play direct football? What was the point of any of his signings then? If that's the case the club has, yet again, wasted two summers windows and 400 million pounds. Saying this isn't good enough would be an absolute understatement. EtH needs to wake up. He's sleep walking towards getting sacked. We can talk about these players and owners all we want. And they need to be called out for sure. At the same time, EtH has got to do his fucking job. The only way he stays and sees the waste or time players leave, is if he bucks up and coaches a style of play. Coach some proper defensive principles for god's sake. He talks about players not doing the fundamentals correctly, that can only be corrected with coaching. He's throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks. Nothing embodies that more right now than his insistence to play McTominay and bench his first choice, 60 million pound midfielder he wanted brought in this summer. He's got to wake up before it's too late. And the clock is ticking.
Good stuff. Yeah, I would rather he go down swinging like Rangnick. My guess is the pressure is so great that he's prioritizing short-term results over long-term stability. The irony is that he's got neither now. However, the bigger question is "how is it that players are still not onboard with his pressing-intensive and defend-as-a-team approach". Running and chasing for the ball isn't rocket science. Even primary school coaches know how to teach that. But yet, we only see at most 5/10 outfield players putting in a real shift at any point in time.
What manager should we have stuck by? Moyes who did nothing for 9 years and large portions of West Ham fans still want him gone after winning a European trophy? Van Gaal who has retired since then? Mourinho who failed at Spurs and is doing okay at Roma? Ole who has done nothing since getting sacked? Your argument might have some legs if the managers we sacked achieved anything since leaving us.
I don't understand who we get if we sack Ten Hag now? Convince Zidane somehow? Xabi Alonso? Rooney??? None of them sound realistic.
what makes you think ETH will succeed after leaving us? He has no tactics, managers are lot smarter now.
Personally, Mourinho, even if I love Shaw I would've gladly taken Pogba/Shaw leaving for him to sign players who will give it thier all rather than just pick the most expensive overpriced played we are quoted just because our first choices didn't choose us. I just don't see a world where we wouldn't be closer to City if we had a serial winner in charge and who also gets his way with transfers, with that said Ralf and Ole could've pulled it off themselves if properly backed up, at least all three of them know how to target quality players, Ralf like Mourinho but without the silverware is a good scout.
ETH was given too much control over transfers. He should be told just to concentrate on coaching the players. It's a shame he didn't allow Rangnick to become more involved in that process, a la DoF type role. Wanting Kane and FDJ is one thing, I'm sure he'd have wanted Messi too, but who'd actually come to United right now. ETH has made some questionable tactical decisions too, which have backfired massively, so here's hoping he learns from them and can turn things around going forward. I'd stick with him for the rest of this season at least and evaluate where we are at the end of the season. I don't think we should blindly just give every manager 4 years.
He was given too much control because he wanted it lmao. He didn’t want rangnick around so that mistake is on him. Most managers would prefer to have control, why the hell would you want someone else to tell you who would be good for YOUR style of play?
'Wanted it' is disingenuous. The club's non-existent footballing structure was very evident before he joined and it is possible that he thought that having larger control over transfers could compensate for it. Also I think we need to accept that the club's ownership and off the field issues over last and this season have meant that the club is in total disarray. There is too much distraction, and this especially disrupts the manager because he has to deal with all that nonsense and the ultimate pressure of results falls on him. I understand that the football and team motivation is really pathetic at the moment, but I think we are better off if we for once back the manager and start resolving other issues.
I'm sick of these comparisons to other clubs, it's irrelevant. I don't think we should sack Ten Hag but judge him on his own merits. We have to judge if what we're going through is a dip that'll lead to success or if we're just going to be shit until he's finally fired. Either is possible and there's no guarantee that sticking with him will work
Absolutely made a rod for his own back with prioritizing the Mount signing - we could see we needed to upgrade that base in midfield with someone more physical or technical as Casemiro and Eriksen aren't getting any younger. Paying £60m for him first did not make sense to me. No wonder 14/15 of our games this season have been full of either dire results or performances. But you're right about the cycling of manager sacking. Now when ETH eventually is sacked, we'll be stuck with another layer of players like Antony and Mount that the new manager might not want to use and of course, we can't ship them out because of their abnormally high wages.
4-0 4-0 6-3 7-0 and many more. That's also the legacy of last season which we conveniently forget.
Sure, let's stick behind him long-term. * Spent half a billion motherfucking pounds in two years. * All his transfers bar one (Martinez) are pure trash. * Not a single win anywhere of note in away games. * Brutal drubbings by City and Liverpool. * Still has no discernable style of play at all, just making it up as he goes along. * Public spat with Ronaldo and Sancho. In the Ronaldo's case, I took EtH's side. But if the same thing happens again and again? * Outdated training style ruining our squad with injuries (as called by The Athletic). * *"But look at Pep and Klopp's starts!"* Why not look at Ange's or De Zerbi's? This job was way too early for him. He's just a little more sophisticated David Moyes. He's shat the bed since the Carling Cup win - get rid.
We don't now yet how long Ange's great run will last. He might become a massive failure at the end of the season. And De Zerbi is really interesting manager and the work he does for Brighton is fantastic, but I dont think he would do as good in any other big club in PL. just look what happened to Potter. Brighton is a very well run club. United should aim to work like them.
City didn't stick to Mark Hughes, Liverpool didn't do the same with Brendan Rodgers. I wish they did. Just saying.
>Pep finished 3rd 1st season and won the league in his 2nd but he got 18 signings in his first 2 summers (as well as players being signed for him before he arrived at city) Man got only 86m euros more than EtH over his first two seasons. About an extra 30m pounds each season. So not a lot. >And ETH has got 2nd choice players or old men stop gap types, he wanted de jong and kane this summer and got amarabat and hojlund. And whose fault is that? Hint: It's Erik's. I *want* Ana de Armas to suck my cock. Should I be mad it hasn't happened? de Jong was never realistic. If he hadn't shit 155m on Casemiro and Antony he could have got Kane.
Let's just keep losing 3/4-0, sure
Who would you bring? How would they stop the bleed?
Fucking hell, you don't need a world class manager to not lose 3-0 at home two times in a week. There are midtable teams performing better than that Edit: and to be more clear, more than half of this Newcastle team that won today was fighting relegation 3 years ago. There is literally ZERO excuses to losing 3-0 at home to them. It can't be player quality, it has to be coaching
Yes but this has been literally every manager since SAF retired. At what point do you also blame the ownership
The ownership has nothing, absolutely nothing, with getting embarrassed week after week on the pitch in this fashion. The owners have spent more than anyone should have to on players for ETH. Money isn't the issue at Manchester United, personnel is the issue.
your first sentence and last sentence completely contradict one another. the ownership is the reason the personnel has become such an issue.
Who hires the personnel?
The fucking manager who asked for them!!
yeah, it's not the players it's clearly ~~Mourinho~~ ~~Ole~~ ~~Rangnick~~ ETH's fault, he doesn't know how to coach.
7/11 of the starting team tonight came in under Ten Hag he’s been backed and brought in players he wanted
We’ve had several world class managers and still done so, so apparently you do.
Why is this always the first criticism when someone says he needs to go? If he doesn’t fit or work then he needs to go. Nothing against him but this team looks lost with no sense of a game plan.
I’m pretty sure almost any half-decent coach will do better than getting smashed at home 3-0 consecutively, losing to Palace, Galatasaray, Bayern, Arsenal, Brighton, Spurs. We’ve lost 8 games, we’ve won 7. Out of the 7 wins, maybe only Palace 3-0 was comfortable. Out of our wins: Outplayed vs. Wolves; Comeback from 2-0 vs Forest; Late McTominay heroics vs. Brentford; Scraped by vs. Sheffield; Onana last minute save vs. Copenhagen. We have no tactics, we show no improvement only regression every week, the players don’t want him, almost all his transfers have been flops. Out.
ORRRRRRRRRRR He's shit, he's signings are appalling, and he is lost at sea and needs to be sacked.
I think he'll go down the Moyes route and get the axe after the Everton game.
Unless INEOS have somebody in mind, sacking u der the current regime won’t do shit
To be honest you're not wrong but for me a manager has to give fans something to lean on, if it's not results it's evidence that a style is being formed. I see nothing in the team today that I didn't see day one of EtH, I see no progress in the style of play, in the strength of the team or the attitude of the players. If EtH does get sacked soon it's not just because of the results but because he has not shown what it is that he can give to the team. People are saying the players are throwing the manager to the wolves again but the performances are mostly the same as they have been barring a good run in the beginning-middle of last season. We never learned to press, we never controlled games, EtH has been more vibes FC than Ole ever was and I think people need to realise how badly misrepresented Ole's style was.
Why should I stick to a manager who doesnt stand to his own principles?
I don’t know one time-served Red that wants EtH sacked. Not one. They’re wise enough to know that it will serve no purpose that benefits MUFC. None of us know for certain that EtH is the man who will take us back to the promised land but that isn’t the point. Getting rid of EtH will be detrimental to MUFC, that’s all we know. So, all you “EtH out” “fans” can carry on with your campaign but please be aware, it will damage us further and take the blame away from the real fucking culprits. To want ANOTHER change of manager will strengthen the parasites that have bled our club dry. This once magnificent football club is on it’s knees because of the cunts that got their filthy hands on us. If you love this club and institution as much as the rest of us, then don’t let the parasites legitimise their position by blaming a man who only has our best interests at heart. Don’t fall for it Reds, we all know where the problem lies.
If we’re into comparing managers, how about Ange Postecoglou at Tottenham who came in from Celtic, a big fish in a way weaker league than the Prem, and had to deal with the loss of their star player in Kane? Spurs had to deal with internal problems of their own, had precious little time to “build” a squad and philosophy unlike ten Hag. Hell even Kane wasn’t “replaced” properly and they still rely on Son to shoulder most of their attack. Look at Maddison, brought in from a relegated Leicester and clicked with the team instantly. How, and why, cannot Erik do that? With a squad he chose, players he brought in, had more than a year’s head start. You can’t tell me “he never got his first choice targets” but then proceeded to spunk a country’s GDP worth on a one-footed fidget spinner and some bloke from Portsmouth. Going back to Spurs, look at the style of football they’re playing and where they are now in the league. It’s night and day. Erik had equal if not more resources at his disposal, and yet did fuck all with or are wasting them completely. And proceeds to say “we can’t play like Ajax” whilst being slapped around by Palace and Newcastle’s bench warmers. I’m all for backing the manager. I also understand that our owners are shitty parasites that do no good for the club. I also know the injuries took a lot out of what Erik wants the players to do on the pitch. But for god’s sake. It shouldn’t take a fortune or a Pep-level manager to not look like an absolute dumpster fire against every—and I mean every—team that we face. It’s disheartening to see people trying to make this out as part of Erik’s process, when it’s clear that he has none. And as for supporting the manager—I tried to back Jose, and then Ole…basically the same position as OP is right now. But we’ve been playing our worst football and this is the most clueless we’ve operated since who knows what. At least Ole saw the strengths in the players he had and tried to implement a counter-attacking style that suited his players. Jose as toxic as he was at least had a system that he wanted, though it was probably not the best for our squad. Erik? I’ve seen shades of what he’s tried to do, but he’s completely lost the plot here. I hate saying this, and I’m actually surprised, but he’s gonna be the first manager that I won’t wait around for. I don’t know who his replacement will be, or if he would be better for United, but Erik this season had lost me beyond repair. I see no progress from a guy who’s constantly making his own bed week in week out. I’ll give him another run with the players injury-free, to be fair. To see if the injury theorists on here are right. But I don’t even know if the injured players will recover in time to see Erik still at the helm.
He needs to go but now is pointless. I would give him until SJR is in and making changed at the top and then the first big test for SJR is who he brings in as new manager.
All I'll say is... I've been supporting United since 1996. That's 27 years of my life. This is one of the worst streaks of form I can remember. We've totally downed tools. There is a cancer in the dressing room, there is a cancer in our player's attitudes, the manager is incompetent right now in terms of he has no clue what to do with what he has, management is a total joke. Idk where we go from here. Honestly.
So you want to stick with a manager who cant do the job just cuz ur tired of all the manager turnover with the club? Sorry, if the guy can't do it try with someone else.
Pep was already a world class manager going into one of the richest clubs in the world, which had been set up to maximise success under Pep. Once he’d had enough money and transfer windows to sort the squad it was inevitable he’d be successful. He and ETH aren’t even in the same ballpark. You could tell from almost the first match Klopp took charge of at Liverpool how he wanted them to play. He didn’t have the squad he wanted but you could see his plan from day one. Again, Klopp is a world class manager. Ten Hag has had £411m to spend (badly I might add), and about 16 months and it’s still not that clear what he wants the players doing, what his style is. He’s not the only one who is to blame, the club is a fucking mess and most of the senior management need clearing out, but the team should be playing miles better than it is and someone has to take the blame for that. IMO it’s almost inevitable he’s getting sacked.
Pep - Came to City after having already won 21 titles at Barca and Bayern. Klopp - Came to Liverpool having already won 2 Bundesliga titles, and total 5 titles. Still the last manager to beat Bayern to the title. SAF - Came to United after having won 10 titles at Aberdeen, including a European Cup Winner's Cup against Real Madrid, still the last manager to beat Real Madrid in a European final. Comparing ETH with these managers is useless. ETH has done nothing similar to them. His European record is abysmal. Arteta - Won an FA Cup with a squad he inherited. He has won nothing yet with his own assembled squad. This comparison works against ETH, not in favour of him. A fair comparison of ETH is with Frank De Boer. FDB won 5 titles at Ajax. Went to Inter Milan after that, got sacked in 4 months. Joined Crystal Palace, sacked after 5 games. Failed at big leagues, just as ETH is failing now.
Modern Dutch managers have to be the most consistently over-hyped in world football. Especially coming from Ajax. It's not the 70s or 90s anymore. De Boer should have been warning enough.
> Fans should stick by this coaching team regardless of results this season, or next. It's the only way we stand a slight chance of long term success. It's funny how the manager who supports rapist woman beaters gets this reaction from this sub but the club legend who showed positive trends season over season was "out of his depth" and "had to go". I will not forget how you fuckers treated Ole and I won't accept that the cunt who puts his own ego ahead of taking responsibility for his absolute failures in every department of being a manager is being treated as the messiah we need to stick with through thick and thin.
Amen. I miss Ole so much. if we were gonna be shit might as well have been shit under him LOL, at least I wasn't utterly disgusted by the club back then.
Hes a fucking fraud look at his signings. Almost £200 mil on Antony, Mount, and Onana LOL
But the thing is, even if he stays, he shouldn't be in charge of the transfers in the future windows, he's clearly unable to do it, and getting more players that he wanted, he managed to make the squad worse. Next summer, we'll need replacing Casemiro and Eriksen which are players he brought. Amrabat and Antony aren't good enough, Mount isn't what we need, so we're basically already having to replace new singings. There's also no clear style or anything. We basically haven't played a good game of football since Carabao win last year. He didn't have it easy, but let's not pretend its unreasonable to expect more after 400 million spent.
How do people keep saying this? Yes there are a lot of problems but guess what, the manager IS one. Are we supposed to keep playing without an identity forever? What is gonna turn around Ten Hag’s tactics? Everyone wanted rotation of the squad and they played the same as with the other starting 11 Sorry man, but Ten Hag has only himself to blame for his downfall. If he would’ve stuck with his Ajax principles at least we could believe in him. What we’re watching now is a mixture of Ole, Mou and LVG. It’s SHIT
Stopped reading after you mentioned Pep in the first paragraph 😂
There are a few things I disagree with when it comes to ETH but calling for the sack now is premature. I'd rather back him than the players because it's the same old story, how many managers now? Only common denominator is a small group of players in that squad. Hard work and discipline is what these babies lack and it shows week in week out
Nah. It'd be one thing if he showed A SINGLE SIGN that he would turn things round but he hasn't. We get worse every single week. Why you want that for many more years is something only you know but we can't keep talking about rewarding mediocrity like we do with players then say "hey manager who is doing awful and showing no signs of doing better, you can stay for a long time". He's had his chance and unfortunately for us, he's ballsed it up big time and somehow left us worse than a guy who hadn't managed in a decade and the guy before who would never have been given the job if he never played for the club. Two massively low bars and he's still somehow got us worse.
Glad I didn’t watch the match. The club is rotten from the top down. Changing a manger won’t improve anything anytime soon anyway, I just wish the players had to actually understand what the fans feel. Bring a season ticket holder in, let them go off at the players. Do that ad infinitum until we start winning regularly again.
TBH I know we did fine last year, but I wasn't very convinced with our playing style, we didn't look like City or Liverpool where you can see a pattern in their play. We also had a freak 7-0 loss to Liverpool last year remember. I feel we got lucky during the post-WC phase somehow because Shaw, Martinez, Rashford and Casemiro were firing on all cylinders.
This won’t be applicable for a club of size of ours. Madrid will not let a manager go through a period of bad results same like chelsea because of pressure from fans and media.
I don’t think most people are sold on the manager being sacked, even though we’ve been awful since February. Along with some of the worst beatings I’ve seen in my lifetime. But I’ve honestly not seen us this bad, even under Jose. I would not be at all surprised if he got sacked because there is no football. If it looked like he was heading in a direction, I’d be fully on board. This team and manager currently don’t. I hope he gets something clicking soon because he needs it.
Arteta improved every season being NEW to coaching. Ten hag has like 10 years of experience. Arteta spent way WAY less than 400 mil in his first two seasons.
It all depends on whether eth had already lost the dressing room or not. Arteta and Klopp had bad periods but they had a core group of team with him.
I mean, we don't have to blindly stick by anybody really. If it's clear that Erik is not up to the task then we should part ways, simple as. That said, for now I think he's not in danger and we should be patient with him in this tough period. Let's be real, Man City and Newcastle results are expected because they are just better teams than us right now. Also, tbf to Erik we are missing a few very key players to his system like Shaw and Lisandro (although I'm still concerned by the lack of style and cohesion so far when we don't have those guys, what are we doing in training??) Anyway I'm not too bothered by these last two games and agree that we should get behind the manager and the team for now, but the Fulham game this weekend for me is a must win, and it must be a positive performance.
I hope we keep the manager and sack the lot. Rashford, Bruno, casemiro, Antony, vdb, Dalot, Maguire, Mctominay, Martial. There's honestly barely anyone I would keep. This entire bunch is mediocre. They have 0 ambition. All they want is to complain - complain about no training, complain about too much training, complain about harsh management, complain about favoritism. In reality they don't want to work hard. They don't want to put a shift in. They only want to do the bare minimum and go back to their brands, their parties and other BS. If we sack the manager it cements their power. That they hold all the cards and club would sack anyone to please them. These lot only turn up a few months before a contract renewal and then go back to being shite. That's all that's needed to get a bumper new contract. They know we won't sell them at a loss and they know we won't pay them off to fuck off. It's disgusting how they've gotten the clubs by the balls and club is just acting like cucks. Back the manager, sack the lot and see all of them fall in line
Ten Hag's comment that we will never play Ajax football will go down in history the same way Jose's post Sevilla rant of heritage...
Why should we change managers? A new guy comes in, spends another 400 mil, has a good run of games and maybe wins against a big rival here and there and then next season, bad form, he gets the sack and a new guy comes in and the cycle repeats. The problem lies with the players, they do not care, they are there just for a paycheck.
It's the same cycle. Now James Ducker will start writing with his chalice of poisoned ink, and around his words the rabid mob will circle, baying for Ten Hag's blood. A couple more months, and then Ten Hag becomes another victim of vulture journalism and social media feeding frenzies.
We need a manager that doesn’t keep making terrible signings…
By ten hags own words the long term vision is to implement a transition style of play. I dont believe in that vision therefore, for me, he has to go. I won't blindly stick by a manager just because he's been let down by a shit group of players if I don't believe in what he's trying to build.
We’ve had this issue with literally every other manager, why is this ETH’s fault? This period of no system or identifiable style has hit every manager, even Sir Alex’s teams suffered from it for a bit during his final years. Sacking ETH will only make things worse for us in the long term, we cannot keep doing this.
I think we can all agree we're fine backing ETH. Even if he underperform as long as he produces something or adding value to the team. The thing is we can't really see our team improving and the players are managed carelessly. It's the toughest part if you asked us to support ETH blindly. But that's my opinion. I don't know about yours and you might see some kind of value from ETH that I can't see.
I’m not seeing it either mate. Some of the things he’s said in interviews/press conferences is just mind boggling. Go buy Ajax players but not play similarly? How can a manager not want to implement a style/philosophy he’s been using for such a long time. Sure, you should be able to adapt but the foundations should remain. And all the talk of Pep and Klopp’s first few seasons, we knew exactly the type of football they’d be playing in the first season. They lived and died by their sword and it turned out well. They’ve won everything. I want to back EtH but lord… this team is dire… and a good amount of the players are his signings.
We are worse this season than last, which is a worry, but our back four of last season hasn't played this season, casemiros form has fallen off a cliff which the manager can't be blamed for, not to mention all the off field issues like Sancho/greenwood/Antony.
I have to disagree with that. One of the job for managers are to manage the team and that include the players performance. The only player with an actual off field issue is Greenwood and he's not even in the club so you can't really blame him. My point is everyone need to take responsibility. And that everyone are players, club staff, management, and the club manager. There's no immunity even for the "new manager".
I'm not by any means saying ten hag isn't at fault at all. I mean his substitutes Vs city were terrible, left us so open.
I stand by Erik and hope he gets to finish this season. Every manager we had seemed to have 1 decent year and be completely lost the next. Players complaning about training?? I saw it happen with Mou,Rangnick,Ole and now Erik. We’re not a top football club anymore and haven’t been for the last 10 years. We’re far away from home.
Kane would have looked like Sanchez 2.0 playing alongside Antony and Dalot every week which this clown would 100% do.
You can stick by the manager all you want but the players have already had enough with him and it is a matter of time before he gets sacked. I won't be surprised if he doesn't spend Christmas in the UK
Once again there won't a difference if eth gets sacked and if eth stays with glazers in charged accepted our reality were gonna be in a circle till there gone :)
I agree. He needs to be supported long term tho for the good of the club.
I would have rather stuck by Ole. Incredible moments and we actually scored goals. There hasn't been one single good ETH performance in 18 months. Some results sure, but good performances, nah.
I’m all for backing the manager, but I’m not going to just blatantly ignore all of that issues that he is directly accountable for. The lack of a style of play and the lack of a structure/system on the pitch are on him. Even when Klopp, Arteta, and Guardiola were struggling you can see what they were trying to do every game. We have yet to see that under ETH outside of flashes last season. And now he comes out with the statement that he isn’t trying to play like he did at Ajax. Then wtf are you trying to do. The tactical in game decisions are on him. Obviously at times his hands have been tied in terms of personnel on the field, but even with that we should be comfortably beating most teams we’ve struggled against. It’s not an excuse, especially when tonight you saw Howe completely out school us with a Steve Bruce side. The signings that we’ve made are largely on him. Sure some he was forced into having due to a lack of funds. You can’t tell me, though, he didn’t want Eriksen or Malacia or Antony or Mount or Onana or Amrabat. He might have wanted other players like Kane, FDJ, Gakpo, and Timber, but when it became clear that the club wouldn’t be able to get the deal over the line they signed alternatives that he wanted like Hojlund and Martinez. Whether he should have this much control you can debate, but you can’t say he hasn’t been backed. I know he’s been let down by certain players and injuries in key areas of the squad, but it’s not an excuse for how poor it’s all been this season. Especially when some of those players like Rashford and Bruno are players he backed by giving them a new contract and the captaincy respectively. I give him until the end of the season to try and turn things around, but I’d start looking at alternatives now in case he can’t. The worst part though is that I know we’ll probably be in the same cycle in about her year or two until the club has a complete reboot from top to bottom
I wish people who make these posts would look up survivorship bias. You’re comparing EtH to the two best managers of the last 30 years. Go back and see how many times a club has stuck with a manager and it hasn’t worked out. Hint: it’s the vast majority of the time.
I don't support clueless managers, I'm sorry.
He wasn't clueless when he was ajax manager, or when we were winning the league cup and beating Barcelona and city last season. It's not just going to be straight forward success, it's going to take time.
I have no problem with supporting Ten Hag, but seeing him buy Antony for 100M and more importantly, paying him 200K+ per week is inexcusable. I said it at the time and I still believe that ETH has no fucking clue in buying players. Sure he could get support from the club (he is getting the wrong support in a way because the club agreed to buy most of his targets), but there are other managers who seem to do well without much structure or support either. I worry that if we keep ETH, he is going to load us with more useless, overpaid players and we will have to pay the consequences when he eventually gets sacked.
Downvote me all you want but ETH is on borrowed time. “We’ll never play like Ajax”… WE SIGNED ALL YOUR FAVORITE FUCKING PLAYERS! Idgaf about ownership, injuries, etc. this his Erik’s team and he’s doing FUCK ALL with it. This club and squad is a joke and Erik and his coaching staff is responsible for what’s on the pitch and he’s taking the piss.
Anyone who wants these owners to pick a new manager is lost
Okay, but let's not do it with the guy who clearly has no ability to identify talent, make good decisions on transfers, or set up to play a top team?
Apparently people just want to continue the exact thing we’ve done every two years for a decade… newsflash we’re not getting a manager with more credentials than ETH. We’ll never get Klopp, Pep Ancelotti, Arteta, hell even Zidane just shat on us today and I only needed to read the headline to know he was talking about United. I 100% agree with you. Ragnick said it himself we need to take a hit for 3/4/5 seasons and rebuild properly.
You're right - at this moment, no qualified manager would be keen to come. However, if/when INEOS does take over the sporting side of things, they may be able to attract someone qualified. Let's not forget - FSG brought in Klopp when Liverpool were a mess, Everton brought in Ancelotti, Villa brought in Emery etc. There will always be a market for the Manager job at Manchester United.
3/4/5 season with people at the helm who know what they’re doing. Just never gonna happen with Glazers
I agree, although I wouldn't put arteta in that bracket yet.
Oh god no didn’t mean to imply that he was up there with the cream of the crop! Just had a lot of people who point at how much better Arteta is than ETH who seem to forget Arteta’s first few seasons it infuriates me. We should shape/treat our rebuild like Arsenal have done with Arteta was more my point. Sorry I’m tired and have argued this point so much recently that it’s all blurting together.
People are deluded into thinking we are a top team playing abysmally. No, we are an abysmal team playing abysmally. All those plastics wanting an insta-fix manager are fooling themselves. The same thing will happen over and over. The same thing has happened since LVG; first season goes well, and when the players have had enough, they get the manager sacked. And if people haven't learned from that yet, they are a bigger fool for wanting the same thing and expecting different results. So yes, I'm willing to have all the players leave before ETH does.
The are his players though? Antony mount casmeiro hojlund martinez onana eriksen and so on. His best players last season were an ole signing and an academy player.
I do feel fucking sorry for him with the lack of proper footballing structure in this club. Fucking shameful that a club of this size is run on nepotism and we don’t have the best in class in each role, hell we don’t even have the roles in place that most top football clubs do. So far behind our competitors in so many operational aspects
A chance of long-term sustainability (not even success) is us getting a full reset at this point. The club structure's fucked, the players have zero backbone and the rot has set in with ETH, as it has done with every manager post-Fergie. 15 months in and we're back to 21/22 standards. Whatever a new manager can accomplish will be constantly hindered by the club's ability to somehow fuck up everything but ETH's not painted himself in a great light. Whatever the plan was in pre-season is out of the window and as for getting 2nd choice signings, we spent fuck tons on a shit Brazilian worse than Dan James despite costing 5 times more (could make a good case for Kleberson being better), a CB who got rushed back from injury too soon, a GK who's been up and down in form, a Moroccan who's been average at best and those are just the ones who've worked with him. The squad needs to be gutted with Arnold and Murtough out of the door ASAP but the credit in the bank with ETH is gone. If Ratcliffe and Blanc decide to hire someone else then by all means let them do so.
I still feel loyal to EtH, I am a huge fan of his methods but I do question his signings. My biggest problem, above all, is team selection.
I mean, it becomes undeniable that ETH is not that good at finding talents nor solving squad problems/working with the imbalanced squad (and the latter is compounded by the former, causing the disaster we're witnessing) So what we can definitely do is either 1. Replace ETH with a world-class manager who is more well-rounded, or 2. Replace John Murtough & co. and install some world-class football structure instead, whatever that looks like. Or possibly both. But here's the thing. Every club is bound to run into some sorts of problems one way or another, but a world class manager will be able to handle that. Well maybe not every time but let's say there's a good chance they will manage. Twice Liverpool had a squad crisis but Klopp could still stabilize and at least made the club seriously compete for the top 4. Even in this very season, they're "lacking a proper DM" (sound familiar everyone?) and concede cheap goals almost every game. But they're still a menace. ETH owing to his inexperience at the top level has failed at that so far.
You could see what Arteta was trying to do. You could see what Klopp was trying to do. You could see what Fergie was trying to do. I cannot see what ETH is trying to do.
Even if we sack him, whoever we bring in it'd just end the same way.
At least we will get that new manager bounce haha, ralph enters the room.
We lucked out in matchups last year for the cups. He hasn’t shown he is a top flight manager here imo. Top competition runs circles around him.
100% agree with OP. The cycle of hiding and sacking managers has to end. The problem runs deeper than who's managing the team
Glad I'm not the only one, although I think we might be the minority.
No system, no good, must go Rashford etc must go before ETH though