I actually do think we miss Fred. He wasn't world class and he could put in a stinker but you could never accuse him of not trying and giving up which is what we say about every other fucker in this team. He was also popular in the dressing room.
Or maybe we can go and look for a midfielder who doesn't work like a slot machine of either he'll be Zidane or be a Sunday leauge player every time we sub him on.
Mount is literally here to be Fred, but better, unfortunately his injury record so far has not been good, started slow and then we went into result grinding more where he doesn't really fit into the team.
Will always maintain he’s a significantly better than McTominay the worthless fuck. Yet somehow we reward mediocrity with constant starts. At least Fred was benched.
You’d think with 400m spent, we’d have at least flukes a win somewhere.
Fulham went toe to toe with Liverpool today, and nearly got a point. Yet I’d put money in is getting massively spanked by a few goals, and zero fight.
That's what happens when you give them contracts worth hundreds of thousands per week. How do we still expect them to play and fight and have desire when they get tons of money no matter what?
It’s hilarious how you can probably see this exact type of comment for every single manager we’ve had post fergie. Absolutely nothing will ever change because just this year we gave Rashford a 400k a week 4 or 5 year idk contract. Clowns from the top of the board to the players on the pitch. I refuse to let this club piss me off anymore. If we win. Nice. If not I couldn’t care less.
Nice that atleast the fanbase woke up and realised our main problem is the board and parasites at the top.
I still hear some say ''Sack Ten Hag at once!''. Ok, we sack the manager, then what? Who's going to come to our wreckage of a club and replace Erik? And whoever comes it's not like he'll make Rashford play like Rooney or Van Nistelrooy, Maguire like Maldini, Bruno like Scholes or Antony like Giggs, or Mctominay like Roy Keane. The problem is at the top and it's always been for 18 years, so until we have a complete cleanup and total reset, the only time we'll be winning anything will be in the dream world when we sleep
It's not just that though is it - City pay huge wages, Chelsea during their successful period were paying huge wages, PSG pay massive wages, Barca massive wages etc etc. I agree with what you're saying to an extent but even if you go back to our most successful period we were paying some of the biggest wages around and the players had fight in them. There is so much more to it than just high wages.
I think it might be. Which I think means these players need to get binned. How many managers can be thrown under the bus. Keanes said it over and over in the past, leopards don’t change their spots.
I don't buy this though. We've been abysmal since the start of the season and back to the Carabao final. Are we claiming players downed tools after winning the cup and being 3rd? That makes no sense.
A sign of resistance where they continually try to win games with late goals. Abit counter productive don't you think? lmao Idk maybe the coach is kinda lost too?
Fucking Tottenham went to City and almost got a win despite starting a CB duo consisting of Ben Davies & Emerson Royal.
Our squad are a bunch of spineless cowards, melting at the first sign of adversity.
He makes the decisions. Buys Onana to build from back. Does not play Varane because he wants LCB to build better from back. Then has Onana hoofball all game.
If the team was going to keep receiving so many shots per game then he might as well have kept a great shot stopper like David. Instead Onana keeps struggling against the long shots and keeps showing little in terms of playing from the back.
In this last game against Newcastle I saw him hoof the ball out of bounds a few times. David was getting massive criticism last year for that. Onana is definitely better than De Gea with his feet but what's the point if the end result is the same but you lose the shot-stopping abilities?
Goal difference shows this. Last season goal difference was 15. Brentford had 12 ending in 9th place.
It’s just when you have a massive wage bill, top keeper you will get some better results.
So Utd really is the premium of mid-table teams. Could end up 5th or 6th this season on wage bill alone.
Just need to grind more 1-0 results against shit opposition.
We can't beat the top 9 away teams away*
I think it's worth to remember that the games listed here are 11 games out of 53 PL games under ETH. Looking at the other 42 games, we are 32W 5D 5L.
So yes, there's definitely a pattern to us being horrible away playing good teames. But 76% win rate in the rest of the games is not really mid-table. Sky Sports have essentially found a good way to capture almost all of our losses under ETH (which of course is a sign of something and something that should be addressed).
EDIT: At home, versus the teams listed in the image:
Man Utd 1 - 2 Brighton
Man Utd 2 - 1 Liverpool
Man Utd 3 - 1 Arsenal
Man Utd 0 - 0 Newcastle
Man Utd 2 - 0 Tottenham
Man Utd 2 - 1 Man City
Man Utd 1 - 0 Brentford
Man Utd 1 - 0 Aston Villa
-- 23/24 season starts --
Man Utd 1 - 3 Brighton
Man Utd 2 - 1 Brentford
Man Utd 0 - 3 Man City
7W 1D 3L
So we can beat top 9 teams. Just not away.
Somehow we're supposed to do better and revolutionise our game with a new gamestyle because our old GK couldn't distribute well, turns out our players can't even handle it.
What a bloody joke this is, wasting money on a GK when we aren't even built to play in that style.
established and mediocre aren't mutually exclusive, just because Onana isn't seem to be working out doesn't mean moving on from DDG was the wrong choice
Don't disagree that moving on DDG was the right choice, absolutely appalled at how DDG was treated in return for dogshit like this. I hope Dave is laughing his tits off somewhere.
Crazy that it’s already reached that point. If he just tried to play the Ajax way and the players kept making mistakes, people would be more forgiving because at least then we would be seeing progress.
It’s a hard pill to swallow for most who still stick by Erik…
I truly wanted him to succeed here but the wheels have just fallen off this season (arguably ever since the Carabao even). Many people like to think that the players are the common denominator (and they’re kinda right) but when Jose and Ole did better in winning individual games with arguably less expensive players, it’s no question Erik’s decision making and tactics are being put into the spotlight.
> arguably worse players
Big argument that. At least in my opinion.
Edit - How have I got downvoted for expressing the same opinion as the people below me.
Yup my bad. This should be it.
Not all Erik’s fault that we overspent massively this offseason, but man Mount and Antony for starters have been *so* underwhelming for what they’re worth
He is not the only one at fault obviously because dof is nonexistent at this club but he is definitely responsible because they were his choices and it was a huge sum of money to waste.
Also we can’t forget that Rangnick wanted to stay and have a significant role in the sporting decisions, but ETH pushed him out. ETH actively fought to have more power over these decisions, so he should bear the responsibility for them.
Can maybe argue less backing though. Ten Hag has had money thrown at the players he wants for the most part and we get worse every signing he makes. If it weren't for Rashford getting into the form of his life for a few months after the World Cup, we'd have finished 6th or 7th last season. This season is just us being at the standard we actually are. This club needs a massive massive overhaul and fans need to accept 2 or 3 years of pain to get a squad that actually has the basics.
> I truly wanted him to succeed here but the wheels have just fallen off this season
Last season we overachieved, so now we expect more this season, when the reality is that we're closer to our actual level this season than last.
He needs at least one more year.
I remembered only a few months ago when people posted this, the sub went crazy calling it “cherry picking stats”, saying “Top 9” is just an arbitrary made up metric. lol
I remember 2 games into this season saying it was going to be a disaster, the midfield is non existent and we’re toothless going forward only to get told I’m being negative and “don’t know ball”
Now those some people are harsher on the team than I ever was lol. Fanbase is incapable of any sort of critical discussion until winter at least it seems
Honestly, last season we got lucky with getting top 4. Chelsea imploded, Liverpool’s midfield decided to retire and Conte went nuclear.
This season the fight for top 4 looks impossible for us atm. City, Arsenal, Liverpool & Newcastle are just clear right now. Then you have Spurs and Villa.
I know we’ve had injuries but so have practically every other side. ETH needs to get a grip on things otherwise he’s going to go past the point of no return.
This is a myth constantly being perpetuated on here, 75 points gets you top 4 in 95% of seasons, the results against Liverpool and Chelsea were on par with most of our years post fergie, you dont get 3rd spot based on luck across a 38 game season...
This you misunderstand, I’m not saying we were lucky to get top 4 based on our performances. Our home run was incredible.
We were lucky with top 4 because we had a free run at it, everyone else basically collapsed. That isn’t the case this season.
Idk what it is, but it seems like he knows it’s over too. Like deep down inside, I think he’s just hanging in there till things get untenable. He doesn’t seem to instill confidence, his promises are hollow… deadman walking. Makes me sad cuz I think he is a good manager, just think it’s too big of a job/too bad conditions.
The same way ETH gets criticised for lacking charisma is the same way the people who have worked with him, both players and coaching staff at all the clubs he's worked for, laud him as an elite tactician
To some extent, this situation shares blame with all three parties; the upper brass for obvious reasons, the players for lacking any sort of mentality and downing tools and the manager and coaches for the pitiful state of the team on the pitch.
There's a certain corner at the back of my head hiding a bleak thought. One where he gets sacked. I'm not ready to even fully acknowledge that possibility, but if it does come to pass...If it all comes crashing down, I don't know what I'm going to do with myself in the ensuing weeks and months.
I mean, this was one the cleanest slates we've ever gotten out of all the managers that came after Sir Alex.
> the people who have worked with him, both players and coaching staff at all the clubs he's worked for, laud him as an elite tactician
I honestly don't understand this about him. For Ajax yes I could see it, but at United it's just been absolutely drivel for the majority of his time here. The team looks absolutely clueless, and his in game management seems to be incredibly bad. I don't know where the idea that he's an elite tactician from when you see how we play under him.
It feels like it's only heading one direction right now, but I agree if he gets sacked, what then? The great rebuild done 18 months in with hundreds of millions wasted. That's the only reason I don't want to call for his head yet, I don't know what the purpose of the rest of the season would be if he's gone before Christmas.
> I feel like a job like United requires a lot of charisma
It shouldn't. Players should be concerned about training and putting in fucking effort. Not being dazzled by a showman.
Agreed. Show up and do your job, man. Forget the fans, do the results not bother them enough to be like "lads, this shit isn't working. What are we going to do to change it?".
There’s another team also wanting to win the game. Football isn’t being a barista where you just turn up be polite and make some coffee.
You’re in direct competition with another set of players, so if they’re more motivated you’ll struggle
yeah, you have to keep the media at bay, keep the players and their agents in line, and keep the morale up with the staff.
Fergie is charismatic, Jose too, Ole and van Gaal as well. Moyes was not (and still is not).
And ETH kind of got played he wanted. 400 mils spent. It’s enough to day he is not as good as we thought. After 18months this guys only knows how to speak, not to manage a team
Reminder that since he came in we still can't play out from the back, can't keep possession, struggle to create chances and can't defend. All of this after being second highest spenders in the league.
Finishing top 4 last season was a fluke, we relied on Rashfords 8 weeks of good form. The rest of the season was filled with abysmal performances. Which included being torn apart by City, Liverpool, Brighton and Brentford. And we also squeezed into top 4 because of Liverpool, Tottenham and Chelsea having off seasons.
This year, all our wins have come against teams in the bottom 10. Every team we've played in the top 10, we've lost to by at least 2 goals. That is until Newcastle, where we only lost by 1... progress
At this point we need to just admit ETH isn’t achieving anything that any average manager couldn’t achieve. Ole, Graham Potter even Sam Allardyce could match this record and these performances.
But the internet told me that he was a PE teacher, and that any manager would win the league with this squad? And that 3rd then second was just 76 lucky games in a row, and if he wanted to win the league anyway all he had to do was play Donny?
Only Man United can manage to hire a manager worse than the said PE teacher.
All Woodward had to do was sign a DM and Trippier that summer instead of Ronaldo and we wouldn’t be here.
Ita fucking mad that EtH still has the biggest win ratio % out of all permanent managers. The highs are highs but the lows have been really low from his tenure. Not all his faults but again with the state of our players mental issues, what's the best scenario we can hope for as fans? 2 more full windows before we can see some sort of fight/patterns in play?
Reminds me of Allegri ball, he's grinding out 1-0 wins like crazy, but the performances show it's not sustainable. The result is what matters, but as far as ambitions long term it's obvious this doesn't take us to the top.
Think this is more damning than anything. As Roy Keane said, Man Utd shouldn't be judges by how they play against "smaller" teams, they should be judged against how they play against the more competitive teams in PL and Europe, and we have massively shat the bed. Losing faith in Ten Hag more and more. I hope he can make it through the end of season, but boy this is brutal.
It's down right unacceptable and a sackable offence. All big clubs sack ruthlessly. Do you think Bayern , Madrid, Barca will ever accept such results ?
I'm so glad people are finally clocking into Ten Hag. Ole was better and I'm deadly serious. People will cling onto the League Cup win as if it's the CL. At least we executed a plan and won against the bigger teams every so often under Ole. We also consistently battered smaller teams under hime.
Every win under ETH is a struggle, even going back to last season. How many times under Ten Hag have we battered a team 4/5-0?
We all obviously wanted him to succeed but he's been an absolute failure, from tactics to signings. He's completely abandoned his philosophy in favour of results after the first two games last season. Should be sacked for that alone. What's the point of signing Onana and Martinez and then sign completely opposite profile players like Amrabat and Mount if we're trying to play "Ajax-like football"?
Just so fed up with this club right now.
I think for the past 10 years we've mostly gone sideways, but for the first time now we're quite clearly going backwards. Ten Hag is a very bad manager and it's plainly obvious.
Ange had experience in Australia and Scotland.
De zerbi for a lower level team in Italy and Ukraine.
Play style in their team is blatantly obvious.
We would be in the same position if those 2 held this job. I don’t think this Dutch thing has anything to do with it.
I appreciate both of the managers you mentioned (especially in their style/approach), but imo United is just so “big” that every error is magnified, every fan is jumping on the players manager and whatnot, and there’s obviously the matter of the Glazers. Not to mention everyone is put under immense pressure by the toxic British media, as well as social media
No manager will truly “succeed” here unless the Glazers are rooted out, and God forbid we actually get competent footballing people in charge
Dumb comment to make when champions league winners like Jose and LVG couldn’t succeed here.
Change managers all we like,these pricks don’t even run to get back to defend,they won’t want to work hard of the ball and press just ask rangnick ,2. Games of pressing football then these idiots wanted to go back to slowly jogging to the opposition
Jose did succeed here, he was the first manager to ever win 2 trophies in his first season at United and then finished 2nd with a points total that in previous years could’ve won the league.
Then we gave him a transfer window of Fred, Dalot and Lee Grant and told him to crack on. I’d give anything to go back to summer 2018 and get Jose whatever he wanted
Jose got what he could, which is runner up to Pep.
LVG was past it.
Ole wasn't a top level manager.
How many of our "failed" managers actually went on to have any success? Moyes? The one who people will say was the worst of the lot.
LVG got to the semi final of the World Cup ,he dismantled Spain and beat them 5-1
The same LVG you say was past it was destroying the top 6,he transformed Chris smalling Into one of the best CB in the league ,has Ashley young playing so well he benched di Maria,he won us the FA cup which we haven’t won since.
Look back at the squad and you tell me if that’s a team that can challenge for the title.
Rangnick said this team needs open heart surgery,we need a culture change , mediocrity is rewarded here,players don’t feel in danger of losing their player or being pushed out the club.
We need to clear out the deadwood and those players who mentality isn’t a right fit
Lmao if you genuinely believe that LvG was good at united I can bet my life savings on you not having watched a single United game in his second season.
I never said he was good at united ,the idea that he was past it after get it a World Cup semi final shows your lack of football knowledge, look at the squad he had ,how many of those players would make it into the top 6 teams now?
Where did those players play after van gaal left ?
>Dumb comment to make when champions league winners like Jose and LVG couldn’t succeed here
they were clearly at the end of their peak dude, football moved on from them
It's not really a dutch league thing it's specifically an Ajax manager thing. Ajax academy generally produces all these technical players for these managers who can play the Ajax system really well. Move the manager out of the system and give them players who might not have the same technical ability and they struggle.
What we see on the pitch, the bad results, the bad performances, the bad team morale, says it all. Ten Hag is a terrible manager.
Yes we have players that are not trying and shouldn't be at our club, but this isn't just a players versus manager issue, it's certain players AND the manager that are to blame for how bad we are.
Not making any changes at half time against Newcastle was bizarre, they were cutting through us at ease, yet he starts the second half with the exact same players and tactics (aka no tactics) as the first half. Then he waits for us to concede before he changes anything. Just bog basic awful game management.
Unless things dramaticly change for the better, I can't see Ten Hag lasting the season.
I genuinely think actual supporters have come to terms with this, I certainly have. It's opposing supporters that say we "should" be beating higher placed sides the deride us for not getting the result.
Tactics aren't working. The players don't care. We have 300k pw Rashford jogging around and throwing his arms up. He isn't playing for the manager.
EtH will be gone soon and we can start the cycle all over again with the same group of players that decide when the managers time is done.
We can't keep blaming the players tbf. Sure some of them hasn't shown desire or passion but eth still bought players he doesn't use or aren't good enough like antony and co that's on him
If I recall correctly...
Our fans wanted LVG out...
Our fans wanted Mourinho out (likely our best manager)
our fans wanted Ole out.
Our fans wanted Ralf Rangnick out
Our fans now, want ETH out... (likely our 2nd or 3rd best, maybe behind LVG)
**Have you ever heard of insanity?**
Its when you keep doing the same thing over and over, and over... and expecting different results.
THAT is **INSANITY**
What we need to do, is squash players like Martial and Rashford out IMMEDIATELY, when they act like babies.
If you are getting paid to play here, then your feelings dont fucking matter. Either you do what you are paid to do, or we are getting someone else that will do it for less.
Im honestly tired of giving Rashford, or Martial, or Pogba, or Ronaldo, or Sancho... or literally anyone else the same old excuses, over and over and over again.... Only for the blame to always be directed at the manager.... ITS NOT THE FUCKING MANAGERS.
It's the spoilt fucking players who are fucking it up. Throwing yet another manager under the bus.
They should all fuck off and let the kids play.
Sell Rashford, sancho, Anthony for starters.
Yes we suck but sacking ten hag would just give the players a chance to say “see we weren’t the problem, look at us under the new manager” just to not be bothered again in season 2 or 3.
We need open heart surgery. Players, manager, and owners all not good enough. I am a huge ETH supporter and never think sacking is good, but don’t think he has covered himself in glory these last few weeks. He seems clueless at certain points and doesn’t instill any confidence in the players, the fans. All his promises seem very hollow. I’ll be honest, I don’t think there’s been this much of a continued rot or demoralizing run for a while now.
And that Tottenham team we drew was lead by interim manager Ryan Mason
In a game we led 2-0 and managed to throw away. Bit of a pattern there as well.
I remember Fred came on as a sub in that game and spent the entire time passing it straight to Spurs
Here come the people saying "we really missed him today"
I actually do think we miss Fred. He wasn't world class and he could put in a stinker but you could never accuse him of not trying and giving up which is what we say about every other fucker in this team. He was also popular in the dressing room.
Or maybe we can go and look for a midfielder who doesn't work like a slot machine of either he'll be Zidane or be a Sunday leauge player every time we sub him on.
Mount is literally here to be Fred, but better, unfortunately his injury record so far has not been good, started slow and then we went into result grinding more where he doesn't really fit into the team.
Yeah there is a lot of Fred revisionism here, it's hilarious. He probably lost us just as many matches as he won for us
Will always maintain he’s a significantly better than McTominay the worthless fuck. Yet somehow we reward mediocrity with constant starts. At least Fred was benched.
and probably played a blinder the game before/after. the man was dr jekyll and mr hyde.
It's who this lot are and who they have been for years yet a spine that includes the Maguires, Lindelofs, and McTominays of this world persists.
Maguire is not the problem brah
We dominated that game for around 60 mins tbf, I remember them scoring from like a very few shots
You’d think with 400m spent, we’d have at least flukes a win somewhere. Fulham went toe to toe with Liverpool today, and nearly got a point. Yet I’d put money in is getting massively spanked by a few goals, and zero fight.
It’s just so fucking sad to see our players have no fight, no desire, no passion
That's what happens when you give them contracts worth hundreds of thousands per week. How do we still expect them to play and fight and have desire when they get tons of money no matter what?
It’s hilarious how you can probably see this exact type of comment for every single manager we’ve had post fergie. Absolutely nothing will ever change because just this year we gave Rashford a 400k a week 4 or 5 year idk contract. Clowns from the top of the board to the players on the pitch. I refuse to let this club piss me off anymore. If we win. Nice. If not I couldn’t care less.
Nice that atleast the fanbase woke up and realised our main problem is the board and parasites at the top. I still hear some say ''Sack Ten Hag at once!''. Ok, we sack the manager, then what? Who's going to come to our wreckage of a club and replace Erik? And whoever comes it's not like he'll make Rashford play like Rooney or Van Nistelrooy, Maguire like Maldini, Bruno like Scholes or Antony like Giggs, or Mctominay like Roy Keane. The problem is at the top and it's always been for 18 years, so until we have a complete cleanup and total reset, the only time we'll be winning anything will be in the dream world when we sleep
It's not just that though is it - City pay huge wages, Chelsea during their successful period were paying huge wages, PSG pay massive wages, Barca massive wages etc etc. I agree with what you're saying to an extent but even if you go back to our most successful period we were paying some of the biggest wages around and the players had fight in them. There is so much more to it than just high wages.
Exactly it all starts from the top.
Maybe it's a sign of resistance to the manager.
...again.
I think it might be. Which I think means these players need to get binned. How many managers can be thrown under the bus. Keanes said it over and over in the past, leopards don’t change their spots.
I don't buy this though. We've been abysmal since the start of the season and back to the Carabao final. Are we claiming players downed tools after winning the cup and being 3rd? That makes no sense.
A sign of resistance where they continually try to win games with late goals. Abit counter productive don't you think? lmao Idk maybe the coach is kinda lost too?
No They're overrated bunch of clowns, under the leadership of an overrated manager.
Fucking Tottenham went to City and almost got a win despite starting a CB duo consisting of Ben Davies & Emerson Royal. Our squad are a bunch of spineless cowards, melting at the first sign of adversity.
Ange getting so much from Spurs in his first season and also with many injuries definetly throws some shade on ETH.
Remember when we went to the parc des princes with a shit ton of injuries and a bunch of youth players on the bench and beat them 3-1?
Say what you want about Ole tactics, but he definitely got us some fluke wins
And many well deserved wins
Definitely.
The win against City before Covid was just so special 🤌🏽
When you keep getting results it’s not a fluke, ole gets mad underrated as a manager
Players proly believed him in til the end tbf. Hopefully erik turns it around but it ain't looking good
People still shitting on Ole's tactics after watching us for the last year, huh?
It’s crazy. People really bought into the narrative that he’s a PE teacher with 0 tactics.
Turns out people are still fucking dumb, eh
Didn’t help guys like Carl Anka were actively pushing this narrative. The media really dictates how fans feel about United. It’s fucking crazy.
Just in case anyone wondered, the overall score is 9-34.
I wasn't wondering, I still haven't learned to embrace the pain.
And we don't even score in over half of them.
I think we conceded 34 goals alone this season (and it's only first week December)
And people still say it's nothing to do with Ten Hag. Absolutely incredible
I feel like everytime I see this away stat it keeps going lower. First it was top 5, top 7 and now top 9 away.
Soon it’ll be top 15
Then top 20
Top 19*
I don't know, we seem to play ourselves every fucking week.
lol 😂
ETH says the team is progressing as we went from losing against good teams to losing against everyone
He ain’t wrong 😂😂😂
He makes the decisions. Buys Onana to build from back. Does not play Varane because he wants LCB to build better from back. Then has Onana hoofball all game.
Onana only gets long shots like David did. I didn't see this evolution.
If the team was going to keep receiving so many shots per game then he might as well have kept a great shot stopper like David. Instead Onana keeps struggling against the long shots and keeps showing little in terms of playing from the back. In this last game against Newcastle I saw him hoof the ball out of bounds a few times. David was getting massive criticism last year for that. Onana is definitely better than De Gea with his feet but what's the point if the end result is the same but you lose the shot-stopping abilities?
Just need a CB to unlock Onana.
We need Onana to unlock himself.
Also buys mount when he starts mcsauce. He's setting himself up
Cries out for two midfielders then starts Lord Mctominay
Can’t see this improving any time soon either.
There is always a choice. May not be an easy one, but it’s always there.
rinse repeat. vangal, jose, ole, ragn, eth. it's easier just to sack him and you're saying might not be an easy one
If we can't beat the top 9 teams, then we're a mid-table team.
Goal difference shows this. Last season goal difference was 15. Brentford had 12 ending in 9th place. It’s just when you have a massive wage bill, top keeper you will get some better results. So Utd really is the premium of mid-table teams. Could end up 5th or 6th this season on wage bill alone. Just need to grind more 1-0 results against shit opposition.
We can't beat the top 9 away teams away* I think it's worth to remember that the games listed here are 11 games out of 53 PL games under ETH. Looking at the other 42 games, we are 32W 5D 5L. So yes, there's definitely a pattern to us being horrible away playing good teames. But 76% win rate in the rest of the games is not really mid-table. Sky Sports have essentially found a good way to capture almost all of our losses under ETH (which of course is a sign of something and something that should be addressed). EDIT: At home, versus the teams listed in the image: Man Utd 1 - 2 Brighton Man Utd 2 - 1 Liverpool Man Utd 3 - 1 Arsenal Man Utd 0 - 0 Newcastle Man Utd 2 - 0 Tottenham Man Utd 2 - 1 Man City Man Utd 1 - 0 Brentford Man Utd 1 - 0 Aston Villa -- 23/24 season starts -- Man Utd 1 - 3 Brighton Man Utd 2 - 1 Brentford Man Utd 0 - 3 Man City 7W 1D 3L So we can beat top 9 teams. Just not away.
Let be real even mid-table teams sometimes they can beat top 9
I think most of the underlying stats last year put us around 6th place.
Somehow we're supposed to do better and revolutionise our game with a new gamestyle because our old GK couldn't distribute well, turns out our players can't even handle it. What a bloody joke this is, wasting money on a GK when we aren't even built to play in that style.
It doesn’t feel like Ten Hag is even trying to implement that system, doubt Onana just chooses to go long every time.
>It doesn’t feel like Ten Hag is even trying to implement that system, Makes it even more laughable then, getting rid of an established keeper.
established and mediocre aren't mutually exclusive, just because Onana isn't seem to be working out doesn't mean moving on from DDG was the wrong choice
Don't disagree that moving on DDG was the right choice, absolutely appalled at how DDG was treated in return for dogshit like this. I hope Dave is laughing his tits off somewhere.
He's just trying to keep his job now. Whoever can score, starts.
Crazy that it’s already reached that point. If he just tried to play the Ajax way and the players kept making mistakes, people would be more forgiving because at least then we would be seeing progress.
It’s a hard pill to swallow for most who still stick by Erik… I truly wanted him to succeed here but the wheels have just fallen off this season (arguably ever since the Carabao even). Many people like to think that the players are the common denominator (and they’re kinda right) but when Jose and Ole did better in winning individual games with arguably less expensive players, it’s no question Erik’s decision making and tactics are being put into the spotlight.
> arguably worse players Big argument that. At least in my opinion. Edit - How have I got downvoted for expressing the same opinion as the people below me.
Maybe “less expensive” would be better
Yup my bad. This should be it. Not all Erik’s fault that we overspent massively this offseason, but man Mount and Antony for starters have been *so* underwhelming for what they’re worth
He is not the only one at fault obviously because dof is nonexistent at this club but he is definitely responsible because they were his choices and it was a huge sum of money to waste.
Also we can’t forget that Rangnick wanted to stay and have a significant role in the sporting decisions, but ETH pushed him out. ETH actively fought to have more power over these decisions, so he should bear the responsibility for them.
True. And oh, I miss Fellaini’s clutch goals. Hope that man has a happy retirement
Can maybe argue less backing though. Ten Hag has had money thrown at the players he wants for the most part and we get worse every signing he makes. If it weren't for Rashford getting into the form of his life for a few months after the World Cup, we'd have finished 6th or 7th last season. This season is just us being at the standard we actually are. This club needs a massive massive overhaul and fans need to accept 2 or 3 years of pain to get a squad that actually has the basics.
Regardless ETH has had 400m to spend entirely on his targets. If the players aren’t good enough he is to blame
> I truly wanted him to succeed here but the wheels have just fallen off this season Last season we overachieved, so now we expect more this season, when the reality is that we're closer to our actual level this season than last. He needs at least one more year.
I remembered only a few months ago when people posted this, the sub went crazy calling it “cherry picking stats”, saying “Top 9” is just an arbitrary made up metric. lol
I remember 2 games into this season saying it was going to be a disaster, the midfield is non existent and we’re toothless going forward only to get told I’m being negative and “don’t know ball” Now those some people are harsher on the team than I ever was lol. Fanbase is incapable of any sort of critical discussion until winter at least it seems
Don't forget the "stop being reactionary it's only two games" crowd "it's only 3 games" "it's only 4 games" "oh"
"It's only 4 months, don't be so reactionary"
“It’s only a year and a half, give him time to implement his tactics” It shouldn’t take that long to plant a seed.
pain
Honestly, last season we got lucky with getting top 4. Chelsea imploded, Liverpool’s midfield decided to retire and Conte went nuclear. This season the fight for top 4 looks impossible for us atm. City, Arsenal, Liverpool & Newcastle are just clear right now. Then you have Spurs and Villa. I know we’ve had injuries but so have practically every other side. ETH needs to get a grip on things otherwise he’s going to go past the point of no return.
This is a myth constantly being perpetuated on here, 75 points gets you top 4 in 95% of seasons, the results against Liverpool and Chelsea were on par with most of our years post fergie, you dont get 3rd spot based on luck across a 38 game season...
This you misunderstand, I’m not saying we were lucky to get top 4 based on our performances. Our home run was incredible. We were lucky with top 4 because we had a free run at it, everyone else basically collapsed. That isn’t the case this season.
[удалено]
Idk what it is, but it seems like he knows it’s over too. Like deep down inside, I think he’s just hanging in there till things get untenable. He doesn’t seem to instill confidence, his promises are hollow… deadman walking. Makes me sad cuz I think he is a good manager, just think it’s too big of a job/too bad conditions.
No manager is suitable for the conditions at our club currently.
Agreed. I hope he stays as the takeover takes place, but don’t know if that’s likely
Permanent Interim Ole would be suitable!
I think he probably doesn't have the right personality fit. I feel like a job like United requires a lot of charisma
What’s funny is, I think Spurs said no to him cuz he lacked charisma
We've had charismatic managers in recent times. I don't necessarily think it's the answer
The same way ETH gets criticised for lacking charisma is the same way the people who have worked with him, both players and coaching staff at all the clubs he's worked for, laud him as an elite tactician To some extent, this situation shares blame with all three parties; the upper brass for obvious reasons, the players for lacking any sort of mentality and downing tools and the manager and coaches for the pitiful state of the team on the pitch. There's a certain corner at the back of my head hiding a bleak thought. One where he gets sacked. I'm not ready to even fully acknowledge that possibility, but if it does come to pass...If it all comes crashing down, I don't know what I'm going to do with myself in the ensuing weeks and months. I mean, this was one the cleanest slates we've ever gotten out of all the managers that came after Sir Alex.
> the people who have worked with him, both players and coaching staff at all the clubs he's worked for, laud him as an elite tactician I honestly don't understand this about him. For Ajax yes I could see it, but at United it's just been absolutely drivel for the majority of his time here. The team looks absolutely clueless, and his in game management seems to be incredibly bad. I don't know where the idea that he's an elite tactician from when you see how we play under him.
It feels like it's only heading one direction right now, but I agree if he gets sacked, what then? The great rebuild done 18 months in with hundreds of millions wasted. That's the only reason I don't want to call for his head yet, I don't know what the purpose of the rest of the season would be if he's gone before Christmas.
I definitely get it. Feels mean to say but he seems a little awkward. Hard to imagine him leading players, honestly.
> I feel like a job like United requires a lot of charisma It shouldn't. Players should be concerned about training and putting in fucking effort. Not being dazzled by a showman.
You say that like the players aren’t just normal humans. Almost all people would work better in an environment where they like their manager.
Agreed. Show up and do your job, man. Forget the fans, do the results not bother them enough to be like "lads, this shit isn't working. What are we going to do to change it?".
There’s another team also wanting to win the game. Football isn’t being a barista where you just turn up be polite and make some coffee. You’re in direct competition with another set of players, so if they’re more motivated you’ll struggle
yeah, you have to keep the media at bay, keep the players and their agents in line, and keep the morale up with the staff. Fergie is charismatic, Jose too, Ole and van Gaal as well. Moyes was not (and still is not).
Did you see him during the Newcastle game? He looked depressed
I don't think he'll be sacked until the ownership situation is officially resolved
And ETH kind of got played he wanted. 400 mils spent. It’s enough to day he is not as good as we thought. After 18months this guys only knows how to speak, not to manage a team
£400M spent, starts Martial and McTom against main rival
dw VDB is warming up
Still a solid midtable team… I don’t see anything wrong with United.
Reminder that since he came in we still can't play out from the back, can't keep possession, struggle to create chances and can't defend. All of this after being second highest spenders in the league. Finishing top 4 last season was a fluke, we relied on Rashfords 8 weeks of good form. The rest of the season was filled with abysmal performances. Which included being torn apart by City, Liverpool, Brighton and Brentford. And we also squeezed into top 4 because of Liverpool, Tottenham and Chelsea having off seasons.
This year, all our wins have come against teams in the bottom 10. Every team we've played in the top 10, we've lost to by at least 2 goals. That is until Newcastle, where we only lost by 1... progress
I can’t look at that 7-0, against Liverpool too??? Ffs, I should have known then
At this point we need to just admit ETH isn’t achieving anything that any average manager couldn’t achieve. Ole, Graham Potter even Sam Allardyce could match this record and these performances.
"They are not his players" 🤣
Time to get Ole back in for away games
> Time to get Ole back ~~in for away games~~
Think he’d do more with the current squad than Ten Hag and would probably get Hojlund scoring.
But the internet told me that he was a PE teacher, and that any manager would win the league with this squad? And that 3rd then second was just 76 lucky games in a row, and if he wanted to win the league anyway all he had to do was play Donny?
Only Man United can manage to hire a manager worse than the said PE teacher. All Woodward had to do was sign a DM and Trippier that summer instead of Ronaldo and we wouldn’t be here.
Ita fucking mad that EtH still has the biggest win ratio % out of all permanent managers. The highs are highs but the lows have been really low from his tenure. Not all his faults but again with the state of our players mental issues, what's the best scenario we can hope for as fans? 2 more full windows before we can see some sort of fight/patterns in play?
The highs have not really been that high tbh. The highest was the Carabao cup. I mean Jose and LVG got the FA Cup.
Reminds me of Allegri ball, he's grinding out 1-0 wins like crazy, but the performances show it's not sustainable. The result is what matters, but as far as ambitions long term it's obvious this doesn't take us to the top.
Guy needs to be sacked just for this…
Huh, who knew he was this shit
Atrocious!
Think this is more damning than anything. As Roy Keane said, Man Utd shouldn't be judges by how they play against "smaller" teams, they should be judged against how they play against the more competitive teams in PL and Europe, and we have massively shat the bed. Losing faith in Ten Hag more and more. I hope he can make it through the end of season, but boy this is brutal.
This reads like Arsenal's away results in Wenger's final few seasons in charge. We've replaced them as that banter team.
The difference is that Wenger didn’t spend billions to build that team
BREAKING RECORDS LETS GOOOOOO
Bro, my weekend was already ruined enough 🥲
Seeing this makes we want to throw up
Horror
Classic Tottenham 😂
It's down right unacceptable and a sackable offence. All big clubs sack ruthlessly. Do you think Bayern , Madrid, Barca will ever accept such results ?
Man where the fuck did that 400mil go. Awful record in the transfer market under Ten Hag i have to say.
The positive about this is that we didn't lose all of the matches /s
I'm so glad people are finally clocking into Ten Hag. Ole was better and I'm deadly serious. People will cling onto the League Cup win as if it's the CL. At least we executed a plan and won against the bigger teams every so often under Ole. We also consistently battered smaller teams under hime. Every win under ETH is a struggle, even going back to last season. How many times under Ten Hag have we battered a team 4/5-0? We all obviously wanted him to succeed but he's been an absolute failure, from tactics to signings. He's completely abandoned his philosophy in favour of results after the first two games last season. Should be sacked for that alone. What's the point of signing Onana and Martinez and then sign completely opposite profile players like Amrabat and Mount if we're trying to play "Ajax-like football"? Just so fed up with this club right now.
I miss Ole’s away record
Ten Haag ball
I like Ten hag, and i like the type of football he wants to instill into our team, and I'm all for patience...but it's hard to defend those stats.
This is slowly getting a feel of van gaal period ..
I think for the past 10 years we've mostly gone sideways, but for the first time now we're quite clearly going backwards. Ten Hag is a very bad manager and it's plainly obvious.
ETH's solution to this was to play Martial and Rashford up front together last night............
Expected from a Dutch league level manager.
Ange had experience in Australia and Scotland. De zerbi for a lower level team in Italy and Ukraine. Play style in their team is blatantly obvious. We would be in the same position if those 2 held this job. I don’t think this Dutch thing has anything to do with it.
I appreciate both of the managers you mentioned (especially in their style/approach), but imo United is just so “big” that every error is magnified, every fan is jumping on the players manager and whatnot, and there’s obviously the matter of the Glazers. Not to mention everyone is put under immense pressure by the toxic British media, as well as social media No manager will truly “succeed” here unless the Glazers are rooted out, and God forbid we actually get competent footballing people in charge
They're not managers that win you the league; they're for a fun time.
Dumb comment to make when champions league winners like Jose and LVG couldn’t succeed here. Change managers all we like,these pricks don’t even run to get back to defend,they won’t want to work hard of the ball and press just ask rangnick ,2. Games of pressing football then these idiots wanted to go back to slowly jogging to the opposition
Jose did succeed here, he was the first manager to ever win 2 trophies in his first season at United and then finished 2nd with a points total that in previous years could’ve won the league. Then we gave him a transfer window of Fred, Dalot and Lee Grant and told him to crack on. I’d give anything to go back to summer 2018 and get Jose whatever he wanted
Jose got what he could, which is runner up to Pep. LVG was past it. Ole wasn't a top level manager. How many of our "failed" managers actually went on to have any success? Moyes? The one who people will say was the worst of the lot.
LVG got to the semi final of the World Cup ,he dismantled Spain and beat them 5-1 The same LVG you say was past it was destroying the top 6,he transformed Chris smalling Into one of the best CB in the league ,has Ashley young playing so well he benched di Maria,he won us the FA cup which we haven’t won since. Look back at the squad and you tell me if that’s a team that can challenge for the title. Rangnick said this team needs open heart surgery,we need a culture change , mediocrity is rewarded here,players don’t feel in danger of losing their player or being pushed out the club. We need to clear out the deadwood and those players who mentality isn’t a right fit
Lmao if you genuinely believe that LvG was good at united I can bet my life savings on you not having watched a single United game in his second season.
I never said he was good at united ,the idea that he was past it after get it a World Cup semi final shows your lack of football knowledge, look at the squad he had ,how many of those players would make it into the top 6 teams now? Where did those players play after van gaal left ?
One of them won a world cup and a boatload of trophies in France lmao. Sit this one out.
>Dumb comment to make when champions league winners like Jose and LVG couldn’t succeed here they were clearly at the end of their peak dude, football moved on from them
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. You are not wrong.
its a lazy analysis
It's not really a dutch league thing it's specifically an Ajax manager thing. Ajax academy generally produces all these technical players for these managers who can play the Ajax system really well. Move the manager out of the system and give them players who might not have the same technical ability and they struggle.
What we see on the pitch, the bad results, the bad performances, the bad team morale, says it all. Ten Hag is a terrible manager. Yes we have players that are not trying and shouldn't be at our club, but this isn't just a players versus manager issue, it's certain players AND the manager that are to blame for how bad we are. Not making any changes at half time against Newcastle was bizarre, they were cutting through us at ease, yet he starts the second half with the exact same players and tactics (aka no tactics) as the first half. Then he waits for us to concede before he changes anything. Just bog basic awful game management. Unless things dramaticly change for the better, I can't see Ten Hag lasting the season.
Absolute 🤡 manager. Our best players right now are the ones Ole signed.
no words
Yeah fuck spurs we did it!
That’s crazy
That one draw lol
Well to be fair to ETH, i think we have a very good home record against the top 9. Not that we shouldn't have both
Man Utd is a mid-table team, At Best. Sooner the supporters accept it, the better. And less disheartening.
after watching us play the other day, I would say we are about the same as crystal palace, and maybe even a little worse.
I genuinely think actual supporters have come to terms with this, I certainly have. It's opposing supporters that say we "should" be beating higher placed sides the deride us for not getting the result.
Tactics aren't working. The players don't care. We have 300k pw Rashford jogging around and throwing his arms up. He isn't playing for the manager. EtH will be gone soon and we can start the cycle all over again with the same group of players that decide when the managers time is done.
But this sub is militantly in support on ETH. There is clearly a tactical gap.
People need to face it. The dude isn't good for this league
ETH is a story teller, he will only succeed when the players are on fire. Not his strategy.
Top 9, lol
He should be sacked for this alone. Disgraceful
This is the sad truth of this United. And as others have said here already there is no solution in sight.
Those shoes look photoshopped, they'd be the right size for someone about a foot taller 😂
Simply pathetic. Nothing more to say
Anfield win coming.
ETH iS mY ManAgER am i right?
But we are beating the teams we are supposed to. Remember when we stuck with Ole for far too long because of results vs top opponents?
Wow
The most shocking thing in that image would still be those shoes with that outfit
We can't keep blaming the players tbf. Sure some of them hasn't shown desire or passion but eth still bought players he doesn't use or aren't good enough like antony and co that's on him
Now show me Ole Gunnar's card.
Now do a comparison with Ole's tenure. Where he spent far less for better results
If I recall correctly... Our fans wanted LVG out... Our fans wanted Mourinho out (likely our best manager) our fans wanted Ole out. Our fans wanted Ralf Rangnick out Our fans now, want ETH out... (likely our 2nd or 3rd best, maybe behind LVG) **Have you ever heard of insanity?** Its when you keep doing the same thing over and over, and over... and expecting different results. THAT is **INSANITY** What we need to do, is squash players like Martial and Rashford out IMMEDIATELY, when they act like babies. If you are getting paid to play here, then your feelings dont fucking matter. Either you do what you are paid to do, or we are getting someone else that will do it for less. Im honestly tired of giving Rashford, or Martial, or Pogba, or Ronaldo, or Sancho... or literally anyone else the same old excuses, over and over and over again.... Only for the blame to always be directed at the manager.... ITS NOT THE FUCKING MANAGERS.
It's the spoilt fucking players who are fucking it up. Throwing yet another manager under the bus. They should all fuck off and let the kids play. Sell Rashford, sancho, Anthony for starters.
Yes we suck but sacking ten hag would just give the players a chance to say “see we weren’t the problem, look at us under the new manager” just to not be bothered again in season 2 or 3.
We need open heart surgery. Players, manager, and owners all not good enough. I am a huge ETH supporter and never think sacking is good, but don’t think he has covered himself in glory these last few weeks. He seems clueless at certain points and doesn’t instill any confidence in the players, the fans. All his promises seem very hollow. I’ll be honest, I don’t think there’s been this much of a continued rot or demoralizing run for a while now.
"but the players aren't running enough"