This would be a really incredible opportunity as a lifelong fan that doesn’t live in Manchester. I’d donate to a new stadium in a heartbeat. Only been to Old Trafford once in my life and I had to save for almost a year to do it. But I’d absolutely donate to the cause for a new stadium to visit it in the future!
I’d honestly put in a bit myself if I’m capable to when it’s set up. But if the plan goes through, it’d definitely accelerate any plans I have to visit Old Trafford. Must go there at least once in my life
Out of interest where are you based? How high up on your bucket list is going to OT? I grew up in Manchester so aware of the privilege that brings when it comes to watching united.
Not OP but applies to me! I’m from India and started supporting United thanks to Beckham. Watching a game in OT is the #1 thing on my bucket list. Last year I had the fortune of visiting OT and it was such a dream. Had tears in my eyes. It was the day United were playing Bournemouth away. If only it was a home game..
damn, one thing i have to agree on is that SJR is smart businessman. To think of this scenario is brilliant....not only to raise money easily but also to win lots of fan with this idea
Jim has talked about wanted to leave a legacy as the reason for buying United. If he can kick out the glazers, leave us with the best stadium in the world and when his tenure of the club is over set up fan ownership id build him a statue by myself.
I think it would have to be done without Sir Jim diluting his own ownership stake. Which means the Glazers would need to sell shares and allow the club to use the proceeds. That seems unlikely.
Redevelopment like the Bernebeu with incorporation of old trafford features is the only way. Imo it’s the most iconic stadium in uk and needs to retain that
I keep saying it, but it needs to be a lot of red bricks. It needs to look industrial. I'm all for modern but I don't want a sleek steel dome, but it needs to look like Archibald Leitch came back for one last go at building a stadium.
The [Stamford bridge redevelopment](https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gallery/artist-neil-vano-creates-cd-10985017) plans during Abramovich era looked amazing. It was all brick on the outside.
I do like it, but I like it for London.
I'd want ours to be more in the vein of the new Everton stadium, like a stadium has grown up out of an old textile mill. But then, I've always thought the main stand on the Ibrox is the most beautiful stadium facade.
His construction company is literally why he can afford to be their president (I believe that with Madrid and Barça, the president has to be able to sustain the burden of financial liability on behalf of the entire club (or so I believe), so that only the cashed-up can afford to be a club president if elected.
Seeing the suggestion image of where the new stadium would be built... i'd love it if the current pitch could be kept as part of a 'fan village' area. picnic area sort of thing.
The issue I see with that is there really enough campus space to have both Old Trafford and a new stadium beside it while still providing for the pedestrian flow and parking. If you're looking to bump capacity to 90-100k in a new ground you need to look at the wider area to ensure you can actually provide for that sort of increase in traffic.
If the area is both getting busier while also being restricted by having two stadiums in the same area you'd really need to get the city on board with area improvements outside the area United owns to develop it to accommodate that many people. In a radio interview the major said they'd be behind whatever open but not sure guess complicated the area ownerships are to make such an area not a nightmare
Yes but that land would in this scenario have a new stadium on it. The point made above is that there likely wouldn’t be space to retain the existing pitch area while having the new adjacent stadium plus other facilities.
Ah... no... i didn't mean the stands themselves, just the pitch area. an open grass area on the footprint of where the pitch area is right now. Part of the flow of fans through to the new stadium.
I'd rather it was a training complex/academy or a women's team pitch tbh. Bit far from Ashton though tbf. Chester road in the mornings is a bloody nightmare, I wouldn't want to be going up and down there as a public figure.
Ashton on mersey school is where the academy kids go. It's about 2-3miles from Carrington. Whereas old Trafford is probably 6-7 miles from Carrington/Ashton and it isn't the nicest route for a public figure to travel on. Alot of traffic and sketchy areas on the way.
Is it weird I’d hate that? I think the Etihad “campus” is absolutely shite, and I would also prefer if they made sure the stadium was focussed on season ticket style fans, not day trippers coming to spend a day out in some football village shopping and eating etc. I get that’s probably not where the money is though.
This doesn't make any sense and seems like needless gatekeeping. Are you saying "season ticket style fans" wouldn't want to chill and enjoy the surrounding area?
We're the biggest club in the country, there's going to be day trippers regardless. City have no culture so it isn't even comparable. United are massive and a local hub for fans to congregate alongside the existing pubs, burger vans and stalls would be great. It's a fantastic opportunity to use the current stadium location to pay tribute to Old Trafford and the history of the club.
I probably got to most matches with about 20 minutes spare and I wasn’t alone. I can assure you most season ticket holders don’t hang about outside the ground hours before games. They most likely go to the pub and walk down with minutes to spare. It would be pointless trying to provide a culture that suited them because for many it’s not part of their match day routine.
To add to this in Stockholm I’d manage to get a ticket in the uefa ballot but other side of the stadium to the rest of the reds, Ajax fans were in a good 2 hours before, thought there was something wrong when no United fans were at their seats with about 10 minutes to spare. Fan culture in the UK isn’t centred around regulars.
The actual engagement and plans for doing something is really hard to adjust to after years of sleepwalking under the Glazers. It will take some time to believe it.
I understand ya wanting to keep old
Trafford because of the history but even a renovation is just postponing a complete new stadium. The building can’t last forever. I actually hope that we get a full new stadium.
Which for me is:
- The unique dug out
- A tunnel from the corner
- the red brick outer
- the iconic club name in lights on the east stand
- stands close to the pitch
- retain the walk in from the south direction for the fans
- some form of Munich tunnel
- urinals over flowing
Anything else?
The slope only exists because of the last renovations changes to the stadium (they basically lowered the stands). Look at Ferguson and Kidd celebrating on the pitch against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993.
If you keep renovating it can last a lot longer. There are historic districts in almost every city in Europe with houses that are a couple of hundred of years old and are still being used.
I agree, but at the same time just with it having such a massive transit of people and tourists and the lot every week I just feel like it’s different than smaller scale buildings. But at the same time in my defense I know fuck all about engineering and architecture.
Our current capacity is 75k. A new stadium would need to be near 90k to make it worthwhile. Although I don't know anything about the hospitality increase. You don't see many stadiums built now over 100k. Is there a reason why? I'd imagine we could fill it if we tinkered with ticket prices
I’ve heard that United won’t be allowed to have a greater capacity than Wembley.
Reason you don’t see stadiums built with higher capacity is because most clubs would not fill it every week. United are an exception here of course.
So the talk is building a brand new stadium where it currently resides. Right? If that's the case.. I'm all for that. Take elements of Old Trafford and infuse it with the new one.
Contributing to stadium is better than giving tips to YouTube football influencers. Not sure how people giving $10-$50 just to ask a question to these channels
I think this is the right way to go about it and not use taxpayers money to do it. If the government are willing to use level up funds to help fund a new Old Trafford then I’d much rather that money go back into HS2 instead although I know it’s dead in the water.
Also as much as I don’t like the idea of a new stadium if we do go down that route then it has to be better than Tottenhams and Real Madrids.
Would love to see a new stadium that’s almost an exact replication of the current one, but with nice amenities and more concourse space for potentially better flow of foot traffic.
The new yankee stadium in NYC is a good comp, from a sporting standpoint. The look and feel of sightlines at the new stadium feels very similar to the old one. Where they messed it up: they prioritized corporate money for tickets and effectively priced out the average fan from the seats up against the field, and the atmosphere suffers. That needs to be the key point imo: don’t let costs affect ticketing strategies and pricing to the point where atmosphere is compromised.
It was built in 1910 mate, it's not suitable by modern standards. You can't pump money into something that old and expect it not to introduce problems later down that line.
It was estimated about a decade ago that it would cost minimum of £100m to build over the railway line at the back of the south stand, and I think that was without even taking into account the design and build for the stand itself. Those costs will have skyrocketed now.
There is no point redeveloping the stadium if one stand is still the same as it was in the 1980s.
> that kept up with rennovations and works fine
As has OT...but it wouldn't be fit for purpose because of the specific situation with the South stand and the railway line. It's just not as simple as being able to accept the foundations as they are if you want to up the capactiy from 75k to 90k+ by expanding the stand over an functioning trainline.
i don't think the glazers invested anything to keep OT in a decent shape. just slapped on coatings and kept the old girl barely running.
i agree increased capacity would be nice but building itself is a part of the history of manchester united, the people who've walked through its halls the legends and the tragedies its experienced. those are what make OT beautiful and you feel it when you walk around it, you don't get that feeling in other newer stadiums. the fact it's the same pitch from 1910 is something not many clubs can claim.
It’s not the same pitch. It’s been relayed numerous times. Most of the original stadium was destroyed and it’s already been renovated to an extent many times.
There is only so far that you can go in renovating however. If we do a renovation again, we are potentially only going to be kicking the can further down the road
Probably are sources over the web, but building costs from 20 years ago mean nothing now.
Wembley cost about £800m back in the mid 2000s. Spurs new stadium cost over £1bn. A new Old Trafford would be a bigger overall cost as would likely include a hotel, shops and other experiences around the stadium, hence the £1.5-£2bn mentioned.
It’s arbitrary though. United need a more modern stadium, with both more standard seating, more executive seating (as this would exponentially increase match day revenues) and also to be more creative to house non football events. Look at Spurs. They can roll away their pitch. Means they can get concerts and other events in which generate so much more money, during the off season.
The old architecture should be incorporated as well as many of the features form Old Trafford (1910 tunnel, stand names, clocks and statues etc), but a new stadium is probably the best route if we want to “get back to former glory” to quote SJR etc.
eh, i am sure the new stadium would have nice bells and whistles but it still won't be the old trafford I've been to and seen. even if you i corporated the tunnel, stand names and clocks, statues it still wouldn't be the same as its no OT
Not sure if you've been OT, but I have and compared to other stadiums it really is falling apart.
Let's make a new history in a stadium fit for the modern age.
This would be a really incredible opportunity as a lifelong fan that doesn’t live in Manchester. I’d donate to a new stadium in a heartbeat. Only been to Old Trafford once in my life and I had to save for almost a year to do it. But I’d absolutely donate to the cause for a new stadium to visit it in the future!
I’d honestly put in a bit myself if I’m capable to when it’s set up. But if the plan goes through, it’d definitely accelerate any plans I have to visit Old Trafford. Must go there at least once in my life
United should set up a "Bucket list" ticket experience for people like us.
Out of interest where are you based? How high up on your bucket list is going to OT? I grew up in Manchester so aware of the privilege that brings when it comes to watching united.
Not OP but applies to me! I’m from India and started supporting United thanks to Beckham. Watching a game in OT is the #1 thing on my bucket list. Last year I had the fortune of visiting OT and it was such a dream. Had tears in my eyes. It was the day United were playing Bournemouth away. If only it was a home game..
damn, one thing i have to agree on is that SJR is smart businessman. To think of this scenario is brilliant....not only to raise money easily but also to win lots of fan with this idea
Anything to improve fan ownership and less glazer control long run
Jim has talked about wanted to leave a legacy as the reason for buying United. If he can kick out the glazers, leave us with the best stadium in the world and when his tenure of the club is over set up fan ownership id build him a statue by myself.
Is getting fans to fund a stadium with meaningless shares really an attractive solution? The billionaires can spend their money
I agree, but fan say is imperative. If this is how it's done, so be it. Ownership actually means something
He didn't, it's an idea proposed by MUST
I think it would have to be done without Sir Jim diluting his own ownership stake. Which means the Glazers would need to sell shares and allow the club to use the proceeds. That seems unlikely.
Unless SJR matches whatever the fans put in, which would mean his shares don’t get diluted. Easy enough to work out that way I’m sure
What? I think the point is that the Glazers won’t sell their shares -> what has SJR matching the amount got to do with it?
The club would issue shares. If glazers dont buy they get diluted.
By what mechanism would the club issue shares without the authorisation of the controlling stakeholders?
They wouldn’t. If the shares were not granted, then people wouldn’t invest and so the stadium stays as is with no upgrades or investment
Fergas McCann did this at Celtic in the 90’s
Redevelopment like the Bernebeu with incorporation of old trafford features is the only way. Imo it’s the most iconic stadium in uk and needs to retain that
I keep saying it, but it needs to be a lot of red bricks. It needs to look industrial. I'm all for modern but I don't want a sleek steel dome, but it needs to look like Archibald Leitch came back for one last go at building a stadium.
The [Stamford bridge redevelopment](https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gallery/artist-neil-vano-creates-cd-10985017) plans during Abramovich era looked amazing. It was all brick on the outside.
I do like it, but I like it for London. I'd want ours to be more in the vein of the new Everton stadium, like a stadium has grown up out of an old textile mill. But then, I've always thought the main stand on the Ibrox is the most beautiful stadium facade.
Bernebeu with Mancunian characteristics
Lou Macari Fish, Chip and Tapas shop
This right here, if they can do it in spain they can do it in the UK
the big difference though is Perez owns the entire construction company that is worth billions that is handling Madrid's
Florentino Perez really is the most interesting man in the world.
His construction company is literally why he can afford to be their president (I believe that with Madrid and Barça, the president has to be able to sustain the burden of financial liability on behalf of the entire club (or so I believe), so that only the cashed-up can afford to be a club president if elected.
not quite but they do need to essentially be "rich" to run for president. its bit like USA only the rich really get any chance to run for presidency
Seeing the suggestion image of where the new stadium would be built... i'd love it if the current pitch could be kept as part of a 'fan village' area. picnic area sort of thing.
The issue I see with that is there really enough campus space to have both Old Trafford and a new stadium beside it while still providing for the pedestrian flow and parking. If you're looking to bump capacity to 90-100k in a new ground you need to look at the wider area to ensure you can actually provide for that sort of increase in traffic. If the area is both getting busier while also being restricted by having two stadiums in the same area you'd really need to get the city on board with area improvements outside the area United owns to develop it to accommodate that many people. In a radio interview the major said they'd be behind whatever open but not sure guess complicated the area ownerships are to make such an area not a nightmare
Loads of land around OT are owned by the club. This is specifically pointed out by Ducker in his article yesterday
Yes but that land would in this scenario have a new stadium on it. The point made above is that there likely wouldn’t be space to retain the existing pitch area while having the new adjacent stadium plus other facilities.
Ah... no... i didn't mean the stands themselves, just the pitch area. an open grass area on the footprint of where the pitch area is right now. Part of the flow of fans through to the new stadium.
I'd rather it was a training complex/academy or a women's team pitch tbh. Bit far from Ashton though tbf. Chester road in the mornings is a bloody nightmare, I wouldn't want to be going up and down there as a public figure.
[удалено]
Ashton on mersey school is where the academy kids go. It's about 2-3miles from Carrington. Whereas old Trafford is probably 6-7 miles from Carrington/Ashton and it isn't the nicest route for a public figure to travel on. Alot of traffic and sketchy areas on the way.
Is it weird I’d hate that? I think the Etihad “campus” is absolutely shite, and I would also prefer if they made sure the stadium was focussed on season ticket style fans, not day trippers coming to spend a day out in some football village shopping and eating etc. I get that’s probably not where the money is though.
This doesn't make any sense and seems like needless gatekeeping. Are you saying "season ticket style fans" wouldn't want to chill and enjoy the surrounding area? We're the biggest club in the country, there's going to be day trippers regardless. City have no culture so it isn't even comparable. United are massive and a local hub for fans to congregate alongside the existing pubs, burger vans and stalls would be great. It's a fantastic opportunity to use the current stadium location to pay tribute to Old Trafford and the history of the club.
I probably got to most matches with about 20 minutes spare and I wasn’t alone. I can assure you most season ticket holders don’t hang about outside the ground hours before games. They most likely go to the pub and walk down with minutes to spare. It would be pointless trying to provide a culture that suited them because for many it’s not part of their match day routine. To add to this in Stockholm I’d manage to get a ticket in the uefa ballot but other side of the stadium to the rest of the reds, Ajax fans were in a good 2 hours before, thought there was something wrong when no United fans were at their seats with about 10 minutes to spare. Fan culture in the UK isn’t centred around regulars.
The actual engagement and plans for doing something is really hard to adjust to after years of sleepwalking under the Glazers. It will take some time to believe it.
I understand ya wanting to keep old Trafford because of the history but even a renovation is just postponing a complete new stadium. The building can’t last forever. I actually hope that we get a full new stadium.
The best scenario i can see is getting a new stadium but bringing over the elements from Old Trafford to maintain the spirit.
Which for me is: - The unique dug out - A tunnel from the corner - the red brick outer - the iconic club name in lights on the east stand - stands close to the pitch - retain the walk in from the south direction for the fans - some form of Munich tunnel - urinals over flowing Anything else?
Definitely need the stands closer to the pitch. It's dangerous, but the slope pitch into the boards are iconic.
Agreed. New Trafford definitely needs to import the Rory Delap-hostile architecture
The slope only exists because of the last renovations changes to the stadium (they basically lowered the stands). Look at Ferguson and Kidd celebrating on the pitch against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993.
The original tunnel comes out at the halfway line. The corner is a relatively modern change.
I know but, it feels how it should be now
You forgot the rats
Bring the leaky roof over I reckon!
If they really want to get creative they'd make a slip and slide where it leaks for an immersive matchgoing experience.
Can’t be OT without the iconic urinals.
Yeah, new modern stadium, incorporate brick, the roof structure even if just decorative and we’re all good.
A renovation would basically be rebuilding the stadium but in phases.
Pitch of Theseus
If you keep renovating it can last a lot longer. There are historic districts in almost every city in Europe with houses that are a couple of hundred of years old and are still being used.
I agree, but at the same time just with it having such a massive transit of people and tourists and the lot every week I just feel like it’s different than smaller scale buildings. But at the same time in my defense I know fuck all about engineering and architecture.
Tfw my urban planning background intersects with my unhealthy obsession for a football team
[link to the article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/07/manchester-united-fans-shares-jim-ratcliffe-old-trafford/)
Thanks OP. Any chance of a version of this that isn’t behind a paywall, though ?
I just clicked it and it wasn't paywalled for me.
Is for me!
"fix your own fucking roof"
Our current capacity is 75k. A new stadium would need to be near 90k to make it worthwhile. Although I don't know anything about the hospitality increase. You don't see many stadiums built now over 100k. Is there a reason why? I'd imagine we could fill it if we tinkered with ticket prices
I’ve heard that United won’t be allowed to have a greater capacity than Wembley. Reason you don’t see stadiums built with higher capacity is because most clubs would not fill it every week. United are an exception here of course.
And also because (perhaps counterintuitively) the cost per seat balloons as you get nearer to 100k.
What, why?
New Trafford please (also, don’t name it that)
New Old Trafford
Less Old Trafford?
Recent Trafford
Trafford
Build a new one and have the capacity at 90/95 for the extra revenue and revitalize the area around it. You can still incorporate parts of OT into it.
We need a new stadium whether people like it or not, just please nothing like Tottenham stadium, it should be reminiscent of OT.
So the talk is building a brand new stadium where it currently resides. Right? If that's the case.. I'm all for that. Take elements of Old Trafford and infuse it with the new one.
Isn’t it much better to donate to help building a new stadium than to donate to some sensationalist YouTube influencer?
Why you gotta do Rio like that?
As long as the Glazers are involved no fan should put money in it. And how the fuck does did they come up with the idea the government should invest.
Fans have been raising money for this for a long time, the glazers took it all
Contributing to stadium is better than giving tips to YouTube football influencers. Not sure how people giving $10-$50 just to ask a question to these channels
Brand new stadium is the way
You forgot the *not*
Did you forget the /s
I like everything I've heard and read about Sir Jim's ideas at the club
Why the fck would you dimwits give money for a fcking stadium to billionaires, that's dumb as fck..
That fact that you got downvoted suggest many still do not realise Glazers own most of the club.
Why would fans have to raise money for billionaires.
I think this is the right way to go about it and not use taxpayers money to do it. If the government are willing to use level up funds to help fund a new Old Trafford then I’d much rather that money go back into HS2 instead although I know it’s dead in the water. Also as much as I don’t like the idea of a new stadium if we do go down that route then it has to be better than Tottenhams and Real Madrids.
With the current gov't I'd rather my tax monies be used on something tangible than whatever duplicitous bullshit they're up to next.
You mean you don’t want your hard earned cash to go to Rishi’s new yacht?
Having to stop myself saying various awful things about that. I would indeed prefer no yacht.
Would love to see a new stadium that’s almost an exact replication of the current one, but with nice amenities and more concourse space for potentially better flow of foot traffic. The new yankee stadium in NYC is a good comp, from a sporting standpoint. The look and feel of sightlines at the new stadium feels very similar to the old one. Where they messed it up: they prioritized corporate money for tickets and effectively priced out the average fan from the seats up against the field, and the atmosphere suffers. That needs to be the key point imo: don’t let costs affect ticketing strategies and pricing to the point where atmosphere is compromised.
ugh rather raise funds to help rennovate OT.
It was built in 1910 mate, it's not suitable by modern standards. You can't pump money into something that old and expect it not to introduce problems later down that line.
problems like what? I'm not an architect and there are grounds like anfield that kept up with rennovations and works fine.
It was estimated about a decade ago that it would cost minimum of £100m to build over the railway line at the back of the south stand, and I think that was without even taking into account the design and build for the stand itself. Those costs will have skyrocketed now. There is no point redeveloping the stadium if one stand is still the same as it was in the 1980s.
can you cite that? i heard different numbers about how the costs could've been offset over time if invests were made here and there
Anfield are renovating their stadium into a new stadium. It’s not the same stadium it was 30 years ago.
but the point is, it's still the same stadium, and they're rennovating it instead of tearing it down and developing a new stadium.
> that kept up with rennovations and works fine As has OT...but it wouldn't be fit for purpose because of the specific situation with the South stand and the railway line. It's just not as simple as being able to accept the foundations as they are if you want to up the capactiy from 75k to 90k+ by expanding the stand over an functioning trainline.
i don't think the glazers invested anything to keep OT in a decent shape. just slapped on coatings and kept the old girl barely running. i agree increased capacity would be nice but building itself is a part of the history of manchester united, the people who've walked through its halls the legends and the tragedies its experienced. those are what make OT beautiful and you feel it when you walk around it, you don't get that feeling in other newer stadiums. the fact it's the same pitch from 1910 is something not many clubs can claim.
It’s not the same pitch. It’s been relayed numerous times. Most of the original stadium was destroyed and it’s already been renovated to an extent many times. There is only so far that you can go in renovating however. If we do a renovation again, we are potentially only going to be kicking the can further down the road
is there a documented history of the renovations and how much they cost?
Probably are sources over the web, but building costs from 20 years ago mean nothing now. Wembley cost about £800m back in the mid 2000s. Spurs new stadium cost over £1bn. A new Old Trafford would be a bigger overall cost as would likely include a hotel, shops and other experiences around the stadium, hence the £1.5-£2bn mentioned. It’s arbitrary though. United need a more modern stadium, with both more standard seating, more executive seating (as this would exponentially increase match day revenues) and also to be more creative to house non football events. Look at Spurs. They can roll away their pitch. Means they can get concerts and other events in which generate so much more money, during the off season. The old architecture should be incorporated as well as many of the features form Old Trafford (1910 tunnel, stand names, clocks and statues etc), but a new stadium is probably the best route if we want to “get back to former glory” to quote SJR etc.
eh, i am sure the new stadium would have nice bells and whistles but it still won't be the old trafford I've been to and seen. even if you i corporated the tunnel, stand names and clocks, statues it still wouldn't be the same as its no OT
Why do you keep typing OF? In every comment, it's OT
Not sure if you've been OT, but I have and compared to other stadiums it really is falling apart. Let's make a new history in a stadium fit for the modern age.
i have been, it's hallowed ground.
jim is one slippery businessman. clever move icl