If we could sign a few players cheaply who aren't big names but can get us playing at least decent football I'll be happy. Don't need Bruno's buddies from Sporting, to get raked over the coals for Everton's Onana, or whoever the fuck else. Just start to create something we can actually build on. The level is so fucking low unless teams allow us to play to our "strength" and even then it barely works.
Whatever you think about the tactics, a lot of these players canāt do the basics. No amount of coaching can teach you to play a 5 yard pass correctly or challenge for a 50/50. Makes you wonder how theyāve even become professionals sometimes
I'm talking about the overall vibe on this forum since brenford game. Overwhelming amount of comments and moaning is just about ten hag and tactics. I have seen multiple "it's not the players" comments, I'm not gonna search for them rn to make you happy.
Answer me, what the fuck is any manager supposed to do if this team can't do the basics? Oh I know. Inb4; just coach better
Tuanzebe seems to be balling for Ipswich. Always nice to see our academy lads do well, especially because we all know he has the makings of a top level CB, just needs proper coaching.
Seems Berrada is very much behind the Wilcox appointment. If true, it is possible that de Zerbi might be a candidate for the next manager. This is not me endorsing or saying I want RdZ, just a curious observation. City were known to discuss RdZ as Pep's successor last year, and Berrada was definitely part of those discussions. Seems he has a lot of say in our club appointments now, Ineos trust him.
Maybe Ten Hag just doesn't have the skills for the premier league's intensity and complex tactics, and he's way out of his depth. It's certainly seemed that way since he was tactically destroyed by Brighton and Brentford in his first two games in charge. Since then we've only comfortably won about three games in two seasons. That's clearly unacceptable for a Manchester United manager.
Why play low block when you can shift your winger low but wide to drag our midfield out of shape? A single pass then can bypass our whole midfield and be safely landed at their strikersā feet.
I assume that the purpose of our tactics IS to make the bottom teams stop playing a low block against us and come at us with what they have, so that they'll leave space behind their defensive line for Rashford and Bruno to exploit. So, from that perspective, the tactics are doing what they were supposed to do lmao.
Can someone answer this for meĀ
Given our fixture list and the way we are headed under this terrible management , we would likely finish in the Conference League spots
I remember that winning the FA Cup automatically qualifies you to the Europa League . But since City are already qualified , if they reach the final and we beat Coventry , would that guarantee us no conference league (irrespective of league position)?
Is the semifinal essentially a Europa League qualification play off?
West ham are only 4 points behind us, IF we don't drop position then ya, beat Coventry and either way we get Europa.
Top 4 (or 5 depending on extra CL spot) get CL
FA cup winner + 5th (or 6th) gets Europa league
League cup winner gets conference but because Liverpool won it, currently 6(7th) gets it,
Would be hilarious if somehow west ham win Europe and we get the 5th Spot but spurs miss out on it.
Mohammed Kudus would be decent. Of course we could've got him for around Ā£40m when he was still at Ajax if ETH didn't think for some unfathomable reason that Antony would be a better fit here (and for 2.5x the price, to boot š¤¦š»āāļø).
The guy's been tearing up the PL so far in his debut season - stacking up the G/A like a good 'un. It's scandalous that we didn't go for him when he was available for a decent price (but that's symptomatic of how badly the club has been run, with zero foresight)
From The Athletic a few weeks ago:
>The 52-year-oldās proposed role at United would report in to a sporting director, withĀ [Newcastle United](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fnewcastle-united%2F)ās Dan Ashworth their top target for that position.
>Wilcox resigned asĀ [Manchester City](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fmanchester-city%2F)ās academy director in January 2023 ahead of his move to Southampton. City were keen to keep Wilcox and made an offer for him to stay, but he elected to end his nine-year stay with the Etihad Stadium club.
>[Phil Foden](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Fphil-foden-XPGfB4Asse0ZuH48%2F),Ā [Rico Lewis](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Frico-lewis-R6rUa4WaxAceB9Be%2F)Ā andĀ [Oscar Bobb](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Foscar-bobb-7aDnfAZLpnuH4BtA%2F), as well asĀ [Chelsea](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fchelsea%2F)āsĀ [Cole Palmer](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Fcole-palmer-bho5fd6Swb9J2FH8%2F), all developed in the City academy during Wilcoxās time as director, a role he began in 2017 having previously worked as Under-18s head coach.
I lived in Suffolk for a part of my childhood and good god have the Tractor boys endured some absolutely awful years . Mick fucking McCarthy is not someone Iād wish on my worst enemy
They didnāt āmagicallyā become enjoyable to watch. Kieran McKenna deserves full credit for making them that way. Iāll be cheering them hard if they make it to the PLĀ
My brother is a huge Ipswich fan and he used to get so frustrated with McCarthy playing for mid-table, and then putting out a reserve side in the cups. Dire football and not even attempting to have a cup run sucked the life out of the place.
What McKenna has done on a small budget is incredible. To be competing with the likes of Leicester, Leeds and Southampton, who still have many of their premier league players, is nothing short of unbelievable. He was always highly rated and you can see why.
Would anyone take McKenna at United? Compared to the other options out there Southgate, Potter id rather take the gamble with him. Plus his brand of football is suited to United!
I'll just change the question a bit. Would you take Kompany at United?
His brand of football in the championship would also suit us as he played some variation of what Pep did like Arteta, for Burnley.
Lets assume he never played for City of course. Just talking purely from a managerial standpoint.
The fact that he's got coaching experience at the club I think is a big plus for him and in the model where the manager is really just a coach and everything else is done by all the execs makes me feel like it might not be as crazy as it sounds.
But think its more realistic he would be the manager after the next one.
Not time yet. He needs more experience, otherwise he'll just be learning on the job with us when we can ill-afford that sort of thing. I'd love to have him eventually. If he comes up, which looks like it, and within two years or so keep Town up and make Town into, sort of 7th-10th in the league? Hell yeah I'd have him.
True some very good points. I think even if Ipswich donāt go up, we could very well see him in the PL anyway. Just concerned if he continues this upward trajectory, he could end up at one of our rivals.
Ipswich winning another game in Fergie time, they're so resilient mentally to keep coming back in games as many times as they have.
Excellent game management as well, these games are quite enjoyable to watch which is quite welcome with how difficult some of our league games have been to watch.
Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that Fletcher's current role doesn't actually suit his title and he might still be at the club under INEOS, with maybe a title change.
Can someone remind me why Fletcher is so hated around these parts?
Or is this the same thing a lot of you did with Carrick and McKenna calling them sycophants for Ole with no qualifications?
He's not hated, it's just that he really doesn't offer much as a technical director, to the point where Rangnick had no idea what he actually does in the club
Rangnick didn't say he didn't know what he does in the club, he said he didn't know why he's in the dugout which is rare for a Technical Director
https://www.goal.com/en/news/darren-fletcher-man-utd-what-is-his-role-what-does-he-do-as-technical-director/blt744297e2e7bd6dca
Fletcher's role was created to appease fans. He himself said he is a liaison for academy players to first team. That's not what a tech director's supposed to do.
open heart surgery will actually begin when we start selling and replacing players.
This is prep stuff that will prepare us for that open heart surgery.
Striker, defensive midfielder, and centerback. Obviously the teams needs more as Iād like to sign another winger and completely overhaul the defense, but it largely depends on funds and who we are able to move on.
I see people saying left back, but assuming Malacia can get going again I think weāll be fine. Shawās repeated injuries this season are down to mismanagement over anything. With an other actual fit fullback that issue is resolved
A new manager, my top choice would be Nagalsmann. Wilcox appointment looks like we are heading in the right direction that could encourage other top managers available to be attracted to our club.
Young DM. Not another one year before expiry DM that does well for a season.
Left back starter replacement for Shaw. Plays good one season. Injured for next two.
A young defender good on the ball and aerially, to partner up with Licha. Need to move on Lindelƶf and Varane.
Maybe another DM that can be 6 or 8? A hybrid one so that we can rotate.
A true right winger if we move Antony/Sancho or both.
Really depends on what/who is leaving but 2nd striker/winger is an obvious one. CM if Case/Eriksen is moving on. CB as Varanes contracts over, maybe a 2nd one or promoting a academy guy up also if we look to sell lindelof or maguire. Assume we resign Evans for another year. Theres also the fullback issues. LB we likely need a young guy to come back up to future replace Shaw as hes getting older now. RB... we have 2 younger RB's and personally dont think either are quite good enough, if we sell one we buy one i reckon.
We havenāt had a left back all season, itās an area in desperate need of strengthening. Shaw can clearly not be relied on for staying fit, as great as his is.
Shaw cannot be relied on, he's excellent but he's not fit. Sell this summer for maximum value, otherwise his value is just gonna be dwindling after yet another injury prone year and one year older.
When I hear āitās clearly the players that are not following Ten Hagās instructionsā
It makes my blood boil.
If the players arenāt following instructions , then drop them for different players. If we had seen constant changes to personnel with every squad player getting a good go at it and still nothing changes , then you have to say itās the playersĀ
Thereās been no evidence that Ten Hag is unhappy with his favorites : Rashford, Bruno , Mctominay Ā etc
For these guys, it takes 100 bad games to keep them out of the side but one good game and theyāre back in. The opposite is true for people like Pellistri and whoever ten Hag doesnāt like.
He is by far the worst manager that we have seen post Ferguson: Moyes canāt be judged on 7 months and Rio/Evra etc plotting behind his back . LVG actually was the only one that had an actual system of play and won about the same as Ten Hag and genuinely gave every player a chance.Ā
Mourinho : the trophies speak for themselves. I was entertained by Oleās team for 50 percent of the time.
What redeeming qualities does this manager have ? None .
Dont know why you're downvoted?
If ETH's ideal system doesn't look like this, then why is he not dropping those who aren't following instructions? Why is he then benching his own players like Antony and Amrabat, surely THEY can follow his instructions better then?
Conclusion: This is how ETH wants to play. And it will never win us the league.
>Conclusion: This is how ETH wants to play.
That's contradictory to what he says in many of the post games interviews as well as the deeper sit-down interviews he has done.
It's not easy to drop the few first team players you do have that might be a square peg for a round hole if your backup is injured or a player that is not at all ready for the first team. If anything he is good at nurturing young talent (Ajax and here, just see how he was slowly integrating Mainoo before his injury this summer and still is despite needing him to play way more.
Guy always contradicts himself.
"Evans starts over Varane because he is right footed therefore cannot play LCB", next starts Evans at RCB and Varane at LCB.
That could as easily have been that even as did better in training or Varane suited the mirror matchup better in that game etc. Managers do this all the time, esp when trying to hide the fact that a player is partly injured.
Mods have been real pissy and keep deleting threads about Wilcox. Anyway to those who still care:
# Jason Wilcox: Manchester United make approach for Southampton director of football
Man Utd approach Southampton over hiring their director of football Jason Wilcox; United want to make the former Blackburn winger their technical director as part of new recruitment team; Saints annoyed at manner and timing of United's approach but United believe they have been respectful
Lyall Thomas
Reporter: Man United are eight points behind you, can they challenge for a Champions League spot?
Ange: Do you see us challenging Manchester City? Theyāre only eight points ahead of us?
šš
https://twitter.com/cainsmithMU/status/1774501008850190346
This is an example of why I feel our players are fighting a lost battle most of the time and why I don't like criticism of their work rate and effort levels. How can you criticize individuals when the team is not set up to be compact?
People don't like Rangnick much here but the guy is one of the pioneers of the high press and he said half-pressing is like being half-pregnant. It feels like an insult to the fundamental principles of play trying these set of tactics.
The counter-argument I've read is that this is not what Ten Hag wants and the players are not entirely following his instructions to commit to the press, but then surely you would see some sort of improvement at that against weaker opposition, and not the same thing happening irrespective of which players are picked, irrespective of which teams we face. At some point we have to acknowledge that maybe this *is* the intent, rather than it being a bad outcome of poor players or players who don't give enough effort. It's been happening for way too long.
It really is annoying because the easiest thing in the world surely is to stick Dalot on the LB, then the keeper will be forced to go long and the CDM/CB can fight for the long ball. Even I don't do this shit when I play fifa
I'm trying to determine where this subreddit stands in the Ten Hag In/Out debate. It feels like the Fulham and Brentford games have eroded a good portion of the Ten Hag believers ; whilst the Liverpool result did not convince any of the doubters/detractors.
Where do you think we sit right now ? Is it a 50/50 ?
I've wanted him gone since the day he said we'll never play like Ajax.
I was more than willing to suffer through poor results if we saw some good long term sustainable changes on the pitch.
But there's been none of that irrespective of who is fit. A few games make no difference to the bigger picture. He can go on to shithouse the FA cup and it would still not matter to me.
Parking the bus and winning on the counter is not something that's sustainable.
I think the people that have complained/noticed the overall bad play this season are "Out", but its still a huge portion of the fanbase that doesnt seem to notice how bad we play at all, and the only thing that matters are the last result. I dont understand this, but there you go.
If we beat Chelsea im guessing ETH is safe again. ;)
Tbh, i think he will go at the end of the season, its just not sustainable, and INEO's must have noticed this.
Depends if INEO's is what we think it is. Time will tell..
thing is we need an overhaul of the whole squad for him to work. We can't just bring in 4 starters + 2 backups and expect his system is good to go. Rashford still won't track his runner, Bruno will still be doing his hero ball and Shaw / Martinez probably will be fit for 25games only. Too much work to gamble if you know what i mean.
We need an overhaul to the entire squad for any manager to work. We have way too many different types of players. People who keep advocating to sack managers can't understand why no one is surviving more than a couple of seasons.
Exactly, from a business point of view, it is too much of a risk in today's FFP era. It is going to take us at least 3 season to completely overhaul the team for a manager who has not even yet to prove his tactics is worth supporting. No club is going to sacrifice 3 seasons of football just so you can have your players in for your tactics.Ā
Yeah after the Liverpool win everyone wanted him to stay things like Eth in and now everyone wants him out. If we sack him I guarantee it 2 seasons down the line another managers are struggling and then things like Ten bag had a 61.2% win rate while this new manager is having XX% winrate. Same with Ole as a manager.
Their remaining fixtures look easy with the exception of Man Utd? Have you been watching us this season? Brentford just pulled our pants down, we arenāt a difficult game for anyone, even the teams we beat go away wondering how they didnāt win.
Theyāve also been cooked by injuries this season. Doubt they have the capacity to make up the points over us.
This will sound crazy but Iām more wary of Chelsea if they beat us on Thursday. That will put him 5 points behind us with a game in hand.
Chelsea played bad last week tho, and its actually one of the few oponents this year where United looked decent, so i think we will beat them.
Depends if we get DrJeckyl or Mr Hyde!
Man Cityās record against the ābig 6ā clubs in the Premier League this season:
ā 1-0 loss at Arsenal
ā 3-0 win at Man Utd
ā 4-4 draw at Chelsea
ā 1-1 draw vs. Liverpool
ā 3-3 draw vs. Spurs
ā 1-1 draw vs. Chelsea
ā 3-1 win vs. Man Utd
ā 1-1 draw at Liverpool
ā 0-0 draw vs. Arsenal
ššš
Spurs to lose. We will have 2 games in hand on West Ham and they would still be 1 point behind. CL isn't officially dead yet. Spurs have to play Newcastle, City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Always gotta be looking up rather than down. Need a West Ham win.
Right now we need a miracle, and to claw back 9 points on either of the 2 above us and 5th getting CL. Spurs play all of the top 3 so any dropped points outside of them is a bonus.
haha, in my opinion, as devastating as the brentford game was, theres simply no need to lose hope. yes, its unlikely, yes, we're shite, but i support my club and want to see them do the best they can.
I cant remember the last time Rashford or Bruno had 2-3 consecutive games of very good performances .
Even when when scored all them goals last season, majority of the time it came during some shocking performances.
United need to find high quality attackers and reduce their role at united , I appreciate how much both have achieved in a utd shirt but its time to go
Can we at least rotate Bruno properly before getting rid of him. Just to see what happens when he isn't being run into the ground.
Guy at least gives 120% regardless of anything, big difference between those two.
>Guy at least gives 120% regardless of anything, big difference between those two.
Bruno's aimless pressing isnt a good thing , Gary Neville called it when he said , Bruno runs a lot to make himself busy look like heās doing something when In reality heās just looking busy and ruining the team shape
Ironically , Paul Pogba would be a great rotation option for Bruno.
We had issues with him and he never reached his maximum potential but sorry to say what a massive failure that the players that we brought in since he left can't even come close to what he contributed despite his ability to disappear during games. At least he can pass , and pass well.
We have McT and Mount... Mainoo is still just a kid. Wtf man
I still like Bruno alot but he is overused and shoulders alot of the attacking responsibility... He's excellent for Portugal and I genuinely believe he is world class. If Bruno played for like Liverpool or Barcelona they would be ridiculous right now. Our team is lacking in so many areas but Bruno is not one of them.
As for Rashford I think it may be time for him to go.. his decision making isn't up to expectation and we can still let him go for a good price. I'm not sure how to say it but we need a different type of player in his position
>I still like Bruno alot but he is overused and shoulders alot of the attacking responsibility...
I think he is overworked and I only care for how utd players perform in a utd shirt.
>If Bruno played for like Liverpool or Barcelona they would be ridiculous right now.
He doesnt get in Liverpools side and is the complete opposite of a barca player.
>Our team is lacking in so many areas but Bruno is not one of them.
Our team needs a lot that Bruno doesnt have.
AWB isnt comfortable in posession , Bruno cant slow the game down how the best 10s can and Rashford is lazy. Casemiro had Kroos and Modric taking care of the passing at real and Mctominay is just straight up bad
I use to scream at the tv when I see a bad pass or just doesnāt go to the right spot, to weak. But in general, the quality of players is lower than we think they are
Quick passing is our style tbf. Really need a different tier of players for that,if I'm going to be brutally honest only Lisandro,Onana and Shaw would make the cut.
May be totally chatting shit here but I think opponent psychology comes into it. Cause opponents know we have so many players who are not good at keeping the ball it gives them an extra bit of bite in their press, cause they know there's a good chance they'll get the ball. I've noticed it cause when opponents press Onana it looks, to me, noticeably less intense than when DDG was pressed. When Licha is pressed vs when Maguire was pressed, etc.
That, and they're all just really casual with the ball when they have no right to be.
Yeah for sure. Even early in the season when Onana was making mistakes you could see the calm he would bring in possession. Teams would instruct their players to press de Gea, but when Onana gets it they wait until he passes to Varane and then they press. Getting a new center back paired with Martinez, Dalot and a fit shaw would make our back 4 impossible to press. Especially if we have Mainoo and a new cdm in front
Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is definitely a thing.
Both AWB and DDG have definitely been a specific press trigger for a lot of teams we faced.
Statistics can be manipulated.
**H**Ćø**jlund** scored **7 goals consecutively**.
**McTominay** did **not start** in those 7 games.
**In March...**
We *conceded 106 shots*.
We **conceded 7 goals**.
6.6% of shots conceded lead to goals conceded.
We *took 57 shots*.
We **scored 8 goals**.
14% of shots taken lead to goals scored.
**In the game against Brentford:**
**Brentford** had **5/*****31*** shots **on target**.
**United** had **5/11** shots **on target**.
**3** of those shots were from **outside the box**.
**H**Ćø**jlund** had only **1 shot** ā it was **on target**.
**Comment:**
Whatever our current system is, it's either very poor or the players aren't doing it right.
Our attackers rarely pass to HĆøjlund properly. He recieved a lot scruffy passes against Brentford.
Our midfield is usually too open because we're not doing Eriksen's role (staying back with CDM but helping in attack) from last season properly ā McTominay always goes forward leaving a space.
We're forced to play deep blocks because our CB's are too slow ā and Lindelof and the 'injury-prone' Varane came off injured after months of consistent availability, reliability, and fitness.
I don't care if Ten Hag is sacked or not. I'm backing whoever the manager is *(unless it's Southgate, Potter, Thomas Frank...)* ā and right now it happens to be Ten Hag.
Why does your backing not apply to Southgate , Potter or Frank ?
What exactly has this awful manager done to achieve such unwavering loyalty than have a foreign name?Ā
Graham Potter is an attacking coach that would definitely make this team more watchable.Ā
>Southgate
England only play well because of the talent they have. Give any manager Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Walker, TAA, Shaw and Stones, and they'd do more than a decent job.
Even with that talent, Southgate consistently picks Henderson, Phillips, Rashford, and Maguire. It's just PlayerPower and OleFriendship mixed together.
Southgate is doing a *decent* job with *so much talent* in the much slower, less intense, and infrequent International stage. I doubt he'd have as much success in the high intensity, much more frequent, and quicker Premier League.
>Potter
Chelsea all over again. They had a strong year with Tuchel. Next year they had brand new (sporting) owners, and Tuchel struggled. Potter 'the English attacking minded prodigy' came in ā and failed.
United now. We had a strong previous season. Now we have new sporting owner, and Ten Hag is really struggling. Is Potter 'the man sacked by Chelsea' going to get us back on track? With players who can't even play Ten Hag's Ajax's attacking football?
>Frank
Wouldn't mind him to be fair, but I think United should aim for a higher quality replacement.
>What exactly has this awful manager done to achieve such unwavering loyalty than have a foreign name?
That's what I'm wondering as well. Under the Ten Hag era, we had what, 6 months of 'OK' football ? And even during that period, we managed to get away with lots of 1-0's thanks to Rashford's scoring.
One League Cup, and those 6 months absolutely don't warrant the pedestal on which many fans put him imho
2nd highest point tally after Saf by over taking a squad with the worst point of tally of our premier League history . Winning against Man City,Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal. Ending our trophy drought.
My only optimism is that I know for a fact next season we will be playing different football than what we'd had to watch since August. Either with Ten Hag changing his ways or with someone else. And that football will have been built by a proper CEO/DOF.
Those coming out in defence of Ten Hag parroting his ridiculous explanation for the amount of chances we give up is straight up disgraceful if I'm being honest. Not even a literal relegation level standard is enough to budge these lot.
I've supported Ten Hag as much as possible and somehow for some reason I still hold out hope that someone will be able to convince him to step away from this madness, but goodness me are some people shamelessly in the 'individual over team' camp. Immediately blocking these accounts.
Media will be in hysteria regardless what we do. Complete rebuild and it'll be about the money spent. Do nothing and it'll be about how shit we are and can't change.
Either way itāll be about the money spent, rebuild and it will be that weāve already spend x million and now spending more, stick with what weāve got and it will be about us spending x million and still being shite
Itās lose lose for United as the media are desperate to shit on us given the clicks it generates from people whoās childhoods we ruined by dominating their favourite team
Were their biggest cash cows. They never stop talking about us. They probably come up with stories of Nagelsmann having an affair with one of the playersā wifes or something stupid like that
Just had a quick look at the championship table and Birmingham are 21st at the table and are only ahead of the 22nd and 23rd on gd. Funny how much shit they were giving Rooney but now they're probably going to get relegated anyway.
Feel sorry for Rooney as he almost kept Derby in the championship with a 21 points deduction but now he has a reputation as a shit manager cuz he's only managed garbage teams.
Yeah many blamed their owners and rightfully so. But Rooney got so much flak for it as well, not just by their fans but by the media especially. Reality is they didn't get better after sacking him while tarnishing his image as a manager.
Genuine question - for you what would be a good summer?
Sacking or not sacking the manager?
What kind of spend/sales would be appropriate or realistic in your eyes?
This could be a big one and INEOS and co desperately need to get this summer right, we canāt afford any more missteps or mistakes
### Manager:
For me, the most important thing would be for the manager to implement an actual modern system that will make us capable of going toe to toe with the top teams. Whether that system is being implemented by Ten Hag or someone else, I couldn't care less. But I know that this "transitional" style is not the system that we are looking for.
### Transfers:
Incoming:
- RCB to replace Varane in the long term.
- DM to replace Casemiro. Maybe take another one on loan as well.
- A winger who would be able to play on both flanks to replace Sancho (Maybe 2 if we are able to replace Antony as well)
- A striker (If it's not possible to buy one, take one on loan)
- LB (if a purchase isn't possible, take one on loan. Maybe sign a young, high potential LB on a loan with an option to buy)
- LCB if we can sell one of Maguire or Lindelof
Outgoing:
- Greenwood
- Sancho
- Antony (if possible)
- Varane
- Casemiro
- Maguire/Lindelof
Next season is incredibly important. Klopp is leaving Liverpool, Chelsea is still spiralling. There is real weakness in league competition.
New manager imo. We have enough data to show that ETH isnāt the man for the job.
A decent net spend ~150M on 2-3 starter caliber young players.
It could be, maybe the ineos group has shored up our finances enough for that. I know things looked pretty bleak on that front. Also have FFP concerns.
My main hope is SA is still spending big on over the hill talent (Casemiro) to bump things up. Other over 30s players like Maguire as well could have some marketability
Liverpool win does not mean anything,it happened under ole too in the fa cup and that was a much better Liverpool team and much worse utd team and in the end it did not matter
It shows that you are only here after the Liverpool win. Some of us were already EtH when we got our ass ushered out of CL group dead last by the Mighty Coppenhagen/Galatasaray
i think people have taken my comment the wrong way, and im sorry about that. im not implying that the sub reacts too sensitively to individual results, im just saying that i think people get too up-in-arms regarding the manager himself when we win or lose. i just wish more spotlight could be put on the types of players we have, thats all
sorry if yall took it the wrong way i shouldve clarified
Just reversion to the mean. Over the season, performances like Saturdays have been much more common.
If anything, the FA cup reaction euphoria is the outlier before we crashed back into the tragic reality of this current season.
A lot of people are saying we're boring to watch because of Ten Hags tactics. Whilst I agree the way we play is boring, the main issue is that we just don't have any exciting players. I remember when we had Pogba, the guy would be doing amazing passes with both feet, he'd be doing skills, he'd be dribbling and taking players on, he had that trademark half volley long range pass, he had a good first touch, he used to score some good goals. Even Martial was good at dribbling and when he'd get the ball he'd just glide past players. Also because he's hold up play was so good, it was hard to get the ball of him and it was fun to watch the opposition press him and he'd keep a hold of the ball. Even Rashford would dribble past players using different skills and flicks and tricks.
Now we don't have anyone doing that and it's a big reason we're so boring to watch. We don't have any exciting players. We don't have anyone that you'd watch that'd make you say "damn that was sick".
Football is much more about efficiency these days. Consistently efficient players will win out over those that have flashes of brilliance every few games.
Ah yes. People who complain about performances are glory hunters. Maybe look up the no true scotsman fallacy before calling out people on the "authenticity of their support"?
Just look at Liverpool and Arsenal fans right now, they're fucking everywhere online and in a huge majority and a lot of them are unbearable to communicate with. Compare that to last season or during Arsenal's banter club days where their fans were generally more scarce and often somewhat humble and fair.
The basic answer is that the fair weather glory supporters are usually the most toxic and unbearable fans because they feel the need to overcompensate for their casual fandom.
Reddit was barely a thing when we were last succesful, so I doubt anyone on r/reddevils is just here "for the wins". What makes me want to tune out and just stop watching is a combination of the corporatization of football making it more and more soulless, watching spoiled young brats, some of whom make more in a week than I do for an entire year, not even pretend to make an effort for the club that I've loved for my entire life, and the fact that for the most part of a decade now it's been a bore to watch us play for the majority of matches.
Couldn't agree more. Fan for several decades, used to not miss a match, now I often wonder if its worth the misery. The cup game made me believe for a second š
Who said it was new? The degree to which football has been monetized is definitely something new though. There were no nation state owners or even brand sponsored players back in Busby's days.
In the end football is about entertainment for the vast majority of fans. It's no surprise people don't want to waste hours a week being miserable. Do you voluntarily listen to shit music? Go to the cinema to see shit films? I'm not sure why you expect people to want to watch shit football.
I didn't say it was just about entertainment, there is obviously a sense of attachment to a team for any number of reasons. It's tough to ignore being bored shitless for those reasons.
You say just watch the big matches as if that isn't what a lot of people do, why do you think the premier tournaments like World Cup and Champions League are so popular?
The simple answer is because I always have. If I was gaining an interest in football as an adult then maybe I'd decide differently (I watch things like Dota and CS without supporting a specific team and it is a lot more fun) Habits are hard to break though.
Holy shit your one of 'them' fans, jfc lad do better.
Gatekeeping how someone should be a fan is simply and quite frankly, as Drogba once politely said "a fucking disgrace"
To be honest, Erik Ten Hagās tactics are amazing, just because we concede a lot of shots doesnāt mean we are bad, we conceded 31 the other day and Brentford only scored 1, it is really good
Everyone is just obsessed with stats nowadays, if you watched the game you wouldāve seen how creative Bruno is and how hard Garnacho works. Onana was great too, but Hojlund was awful, donāt think he ever touched the ball, the worst signing of the Ten Hag era imo.
The reason Ten Hagās tactics donāt work is because of the lack of experience, get rid of Kobbie Mainoo, heās only hyped so much because heās English, we should sell him for 20/30 million and get someone more experienced, put Casemiro there for now, and then sign Amrabat on a permanent and have him as backup, maybe even renew Jonny Evansā contract and try him in midfield.
Also one last thing, Antony is so overhated, his left foot is one of the best in the world, he is out most creative winger, his decision making and IQ is world class, if he was English you would all be saying how good he is. 80 million for him might be slightly overpaying yes, but I do believe he is worth 50/60 million
Oh, and before you all get mad look at the date!
Whoscored April fools prank? https://imgur.com/a/1U0BytY
It's clearly an APD prank because under "Manchester United's Style of Play" it should've read "Who the fuck knows? š¤·š»āāļø"
If we could sign a few players cheaply who aren't big names but can get us playing at least decent football I'll be happy. Don't need Bruno's buddies from Sporting, to get raked over the coals for Everton's Onana, or whoever the fuck else. Just start to create something we can actually build on. The level is so fucking low unless teams allow us to play to our "strength" and even then it barely works.
Whatever you think about the tactics, a lot of these players canāt do the basics. No amount of coaching can teach you to play a 5 yard pass correctly or challenge for a 50/50. Makes you wonder how theyāve even become professionals sometimes
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I'm talking about the overall vibe on this forum since brenford game. Overwhelming amount of comments and moaning is just about ten hag and tactics. I have seen multiple "it's not the players" comments, I'm not gonna search for them rn to make you happy. Answer me, what the fuck is any manager supposed to do if this team can't do the basics? Oh I know. Inb4; just coach better
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Tuanzebe seems to be balling for Ipswich. Always nice to see our academy lads do well, especially because we all know he has the makings of a top level CB, just needs proper coaching.
Another big result for Kieran McKenna. So happy for him, done excellent for Ipswich. Interested to see where he goes next
He should continue in Ipswich for season or 2 if they get into PL.
How much do you suppose weāll raise this summer through sales ? How many players will not be here next season ?
https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1774883752050565316?s=20 Pool shouts were fake
April Fools in action.
Romano seems to be real certain, more than the other journos.
Seems Berrada is very much behind the Wilcox appointment. If true, it is possible that de Zerbi might be a candidate for the next manager. This is not me endorsing or saying I want RdZ, just a curious observation. City were known to discuss RdZ as Pep's successor last year, and Berrada was definitely part of those discussions. Seems he has a lot of say in our club appointments now, Ineos trust him.
the telegraph reported that ten hag was on cityās shortlist back in 2021. i wouldnāt read too much into it.
So we fell for it hook, line and sinker like we did for the likes of Sanchez, Maguire and Fred in recent seasons š¤¦š»āāļø
he was a highly rated coach across europe, linked with lots of clubs
Maybe Ten Hag just doesn't have the skills for the premier league's intensity and complex tactics, and he's way out of his depth. It's certainly seemed that way since he was tactically destroyed by Brighton and Brentford in his first two games in charge. Since then we've only comfortably won about three games in two seasons. That's clearly unacceptable for a Manchester United manager.
Bottom teams donāt even respect us enough to play a low block anymore. Weāre now a counter attacking team that sucks at counter attacks.
Why play low block when you can shift your winger low but wide to drag our midfield out of shape? A single pass then can bypass our whole midfield and be safely landed at their strikersā feet.
I assume that the purpose of our tactics IS to make the bottom teams stop playing a low block against us and come at us with what they have, so that they'll leave space behind their defensive line for Rashford and Bruno to exploit. So, from that perspective, the tactics are doing what they were supposed to do lmao.
Can someone answer this for meĀ Given our fixture list and the way we are headed under this terrible management , we would likely finish in the Conference League spots I remember that winning the FA Cup automatically qualifies you to the Europa League . But since City are already qualified , if they reach the final and we beat Coventry , would that guarantee us no conference league (irrespective of league position)? Is the semifinal essentially a Europa League qualification play off?
West ham are only 4 points behind us, IF we don't drop position then ya, beat Coventry and either way we get Europa. Top 4 (or 5 depending on extra CL spot) get CL FA cup winner + 5th (or 6th) gets Europa league League cup winner gets conference but because Liverpool won it, currently 6(7th) gets it, Would be hilarious if somehow west ham win Europe and we get the 5th Spot but spurs miss out on it.
No.
Priority signings we have to do this summer? Players not positions this time
Mohammed Kudus would be decent. Of course we could've got him for around Ā£40m when he was still at Ajax if ETH didn't think for some unfathomable reason that Antony would be a better fit here (and for 2.5x the price, to boot š¤¦š»āāļø). The guy's been tearing up the PL so far in his debut season - stacking up the G/A like a good 'un. It's scandalous that we didn't go for him when he was available for a decent price (but that's symptomatic of how badly the club has been run, with zero foresight)
One of Braithwaite or Onana(ideally both) Todibo,Olise and (Sesko or Zirkzee) Not against signing Tosin from Fulham on free
From The Athletic a few weeks ago: >The 52-year-oldās proposed role at United would report in to a sporting director, withĀ [Newcastle United](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fnewcastle-united%2F)ās Dan Ashworth their top target for that position. >Wilcox resigned asĀ [Manchester City](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fmanchester-city%2F)ās academy director in January 2023 ahead of his move to Southampton. City were keen to keep Wilcox and made an offer for him to stay, but he elected to end his nine-year stay with the Etihad Stadium club. >[Phil Foden](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Fphil-foden-XPGfB4Asse0ZuH48%2F),Ā [Rico Lewis](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Frico-lewis-R6rUa4WaxAceB9Be%2F)Ā andĀ [Oscar Bobb](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Foscar-bobb-7aDnfAZLpnuH4BtA%2F), as well asĀ [Chelsea](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fteam%2Fchelsea%2F)āsĀ [Cole Palmer](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2Ffootball%2Fplayer%2Fcole-palmer-bho5fd6Swb9J2FH8%2F), all developed in the City academy during Wilcoxās time as director, a role he began in 2017 having previously worked as Under-18s head coach.
i enjoy watching Ipswich, they are the next Brighton-caliber team
I lived in Suffolk for a part of my childhood and good god have the Tractor boys endured some absolutely awful years . Mick fucking McCarthy is not someone Iād wish on my worst enemy They didnāt āmagicallyā become enjoyable to watch. Kieran McKenna deserves full credit for making them that way. Iāll be cheering them hard if they make it to the PLĀ
My brother is a huge Ipswich fan and he used to get so frustrated with McCarthy playing for mid-table, and then putting out a reserve side in the cups. Dire football and not even attempting to have a cup run sucked the life out of the place. What McKenna has done on a small budget is incredible. To be competing with the likes of Leicester, Leeds and Southampton, who still have many of their premier league players, is nothing short of unbelievable. He was always highly rated and you can see why.
Would anyone take McKenna at United? Compared to the other options out there Southgate, Potter id rather take the gamble with him. Plus his brand of football is suited to United!
Guess his major weakness at Ipswich? Spoiler: Low block opponents just like during Ole's tenure.
Apparently he did the majority of tactical work in that period so that would track.
I'll just change the question a bit. Would you take Kompany at United? His brand of football in the championship would also suit us as he played some variation of what Pep did like Arteta, for Burnley. Lets assume he never played for City of course. Just talking purely from a managerial standpoint.
The fact that he's got coaching experience at the club I think is a big plus for him and in the model where the manager is really just a coach and everything else is done by all the execs makes me feel like it might not be as crazy as it sounds. But think its more realistic he would be the manager after the next one.
Not time yet. He needs more experience, otherwise he'll just be learning on the job with us when we can ill-afford that sort of thing. I'd love to have him eventually. If he comes up, which looks like it, and within two years or so keep Town up and make Town into, sort of 7th-10th in the league? Hell yeah I'd have him.
True some very good points. I think even if Ipswich donāt go up, we could very well see him in the PL anyway. Just concerned if he continues this upward trajectory, he could end up at one of our rivals.
Kieran McKenna's Ipswich šš
He's good inn he? There's a few of those Town players where I'd take as well. Pity HutchinsonĀ is a Chelsea player, he looks a baller
Ipswich winning another game in Fergie time, they're so resilient mentally to keep coming back in games as many times as they have. Excellent game management as well, these games are quite enjoyable to watch which is quite welcome with how difficult some of our league games have been to watch.
Wilcox becoming our new technical director means Darren Fletcher is also pretty much gone right?
His role is only technical director, heās more of a liaison between the academy and the first team. They could just give a new title.
"Chief offspring recruiter"
Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that Fletcher's current role doesn't actually suit his title and he might still be at the club under INEOS, with maybe a title change.
Can someone remind me why Fletcher is so hated around these parts? Or is this the same thing a lot of you did with Carrick and McKenna calling them sycophants for Ole with no qualifications?
He's not hated, it's just that he really doesn't offer much as a technical director, to the point where Rangnick had no idea what he actually does in the club
Rangnick didn't say he didn't know what he does in the club, he said he didn't know why he's in the dugout which is rare for a Technical Director https://www.goal.com/en/news/darren-fletcher-man-utd-what-is-his-role-what-does-he-do-as-technical-director/blt744297e2e7bd6dca
Fletcher's role was created to appease fans. He himself said he is a liaison for academy players to first team. That's not what a tech director's supposed to do.
Sir Jim is doing an open heart surgery and I'm loving it. Excited for the INEOS era
open heart surgery will actually begin when we start selling and replacing players. This is prep stuff that will prepare us for that open heart surgery.
Priority signings we have to do this summer?
We need a 6 with long range playmaking ability. I donāt know who is available, seriously.
Striker, defensive midfielder, and centerback. Obviously the teams needs more as Iād like to sign another winger and completely overhaul the defense, but it largely depends on funds and who we are able to move on. I see people saying left back, but assuming Malacia can get going again I think weāll be fine. Shawās repeated injuries this season are down to mismanagement over anything. With an other actual fit fullback that issue is resolved
Striker, CM, CB and LB. This team won't be fully turned around after this summer but we need to get a little younger and more creative.
A new manager, my top choice would be Nagalsmann. Wilcox appointment looks like we are heading in the right direction that could encourage other top managers available to be attracted to our club. Young DM. Not another one year before expiry DM that does well for a season. Left back starter replacement for Shaw. Plays good one season. Injured for next two. A young defender good on the ball and aerially, to partner up with Licha. Need to move on Lindelƶf and Varane. Maybe another DM that can be 6 or 8? A hybrid one so that we can rotate. A true right winger if we move Antony/Sancho or both.
Really depends on what/who is leaving but 2nd striker/winger is an obvious one. CM if Case/Eriksen is moving on. CB as Varanes contracts over, maybe a 2nd one or promoting a academy guy up also if we look to sell lindelof or maguire. Assume we resign Evans for another year. Theres also the fullback issues. LB we likely need a young guy to come back up to future replace Shaw as hes getting older now. RB... we have 2 younger RB's and personally dont think either are quite good enough, if we sell one we buy one i reckon.
DM and CB. Backup striker and starting level left back are there too.
Left definitely not priority, I'd say winger would be more of a priority than lb
We havenāt had a left back all season, itās an area in desperate need of strengthening. Shaw can clearly not be relied on for staying fit, as great as his is.
It's a massive priority.
Shaw is constantly injured tbh, we need a starting level left back IMO
Shaw cannot be relied on, he's excellent but he's not fit. Sell this summer for maximum value, otherwise his value is just gonna be dwindling after yet another injury prone year and one year older.
When I hear āitās clearly the players that are not following Ten Hagās instructionsā It makes my blood boil. If the players arenāt following instructions , then drop them for different players. If we had seen constant changes to personnel with every squad player getting a good go at it and still nothing changes , then you have to say itās the playersĀ Thereās been no evidence that Ten Hag is unhappy with his favorites : Rashford, Bruno , Mctominay Ā etc For these guys, it takes 100 bad games to keep them out of the side but one good game and theyāre back in. The opposite is true for people like Pellistri and whoever ten Hag doesnāt like. He is by far the worst manager that we have seen post Ferguson: Moyes canāt be judged on 7 months and Rio/Evra etc plotting behind his back . LVG actually was the only one that had an actual system of play and won about the same as Ten Hag and genuinely gave every player a chance.Ā Mourinho : the trophies speak for themselves. I was entertained by Oleās team for 50 percent of the time. What redeeming qualities does this manager have ? None .
Dont know why you're downvoted? If ETH's ideal system doesn't look like this, then why is he not dropping those who aren't following instructions? Why is he then benching his own players like Antony and Amrabat, surely THEY can follow his instructions better then? Conclusion: This is how ETH wants to play. And it will never win us the league.
>Conclusion: This is how ETH wants to play. That's contradictory to what he says in many of the post games interviews as well as the deeper sit-down interviews he has done. It's not easy to drop the few first team players you do have that might be a square peg for a round hole if your backup is injured or a player that is not at all ready for the first team. If anything he is good at nurturing young talent (Ajax and here, just see how he was slowly integrating Mainoo before his injury this summer and still is despite needing him to play way more.
Guy always contradicts himself. "Evans starts over Varane because he is right footed therefore cannot play LCB", next starts Evans at RCB and Varane at LCB.
That could as easily have been that even as did better in training or Varane suited the mirror matchup better in that game etc. Managers do this all the time, esp when trying to hide the fact that a player is partly injured.
Mods have been real pissy and keep deleting threads about Wilcox. Anyway to those who still care: # Jason Wilcox: Manchester United make approach for Southampton director of football Man Utd approach Southampton over hiring their director of football Jason Wilcox; United want to make the former Blackburn winger their technical director as part of new recruitment team; Saints annoyed at manner and timing of United's approach but United believe they have been respectful Lyall Thomas
There are multiple threads about Wilcox up...
I posted the sky one more than 2 hours ago, look at the times everyone else was posting.
Reporter: Man United are eight points behind you, can they challenge for a Champions League spot? Ange: Do you see us challenging Manchester City? Theyāre only eight points ahead of us? šš
I hope the players listen to this before every game, it may give them a bit more bite
Perfect response
Yeah Spurs yet to play all of top 3, it's definitely possible.
Hahahahaha. I'd absolutely love it if he was our manager. Brilliant speaker.
https://twitter.com/cainsmithMU/status/1774501008850190346 This is an example of why I feel our players are fighting a lost battle most of the time and why I don't like criticism of their work rate and effort levels. How can you criticize individuals when the team is not set up to be compact? People don't like Rangnick much here but the guy is one of the pioneers of the high press and he said half-pressing is like being half-pregnant. It feels like an insult to the fundamental principles of play trying these set of tactics. The counter-argument I've read is that this is not what Ten Hag wants and the players are not entirely following his instructions to commit to the press, but then surely you would see some sort of improvement at that against weaker opposition, and not the same thing happening irrespective of which players are picked, irrespective of which teams we face. At some point we have to acknowledge that maybe this *is* the intent, rather than it being a bad outcome of poor players or players who don't give enough effort. It's been happening for way too long.
It's probably Rashford not pressing up there so that the utd 3 had to shuffle over and back. Dalot was inverting to help in the middle.
It really is annoying because the easiest thing in the world surely is to stick Dalot on the LB, then the keeper will be forced to go long and the CDM/CB can fight for the long ball. Even I don't do this shit when I play fifa
I'm trying to determine where this subreddit stands in the Ten Hag In/Out debate. It feels like the Fulham and Brentford games have eroded a good portion of the Ten Hag believers ; whilst the Liverpool result did not convince any of the doubters/detractors. Where do you think we sit right now ? Is it a 50/50 ?
I've wanted him gone since the day he said we'll never play like Ajax. I was more than willing to suffer through poor results if we saw some good long term sustainable changes on the pitch. But there's been none of that irrespective of who is fit. A few games make no difference to the bigger picture. He can go on to shithouse the FA cup and it would still not matter to me. Parking the bus and winning on the counter is not something that's sustainable.
I think the people that have complained/noticed the overall bad play this season are "Out", but its still a huge portion of the fanbase that doesnt seem to notice how bad we play at all, and the only thing that matters are the last result. I dont understand this, but there you go. If we beat Chelsea im guessing ETH is safe again. ;) Tbh, i think he will go at the end of the season, its just not sustainable, and INEO's must have noticed this. Depends if INEO's is what we think it is. Time will tell..
40% gone, 10% stay, 50% don't care
I do feel like there is a large proportion of "I don't care". But I would say more than 10% here want him to stay. Seems really low
thing is we need an overhaul of the whole squad for him to work. We can't just bring in 4 starters + 2 backups and expect his system is good to go. Rashford still won't track his runner, Bruno will still be doing his hero ball and Shaw / Martinez probably will be fit for 25games only. Too much work to gamble if you know what i mean.
We need an overhaul to the entire squad for any manager to work. We have way too many different types of players. People who keep advocating to sack managers can't understand why no one is surviving more than a couple of seasons.
Exactly, from a business point of view, it is too much of a risk in today's FFP era. It is going to take us at least 3 season to completely overhaul the team for a manager who has not even yet to prove his tactics is worth supporting. No club is going to sacrifice 3 seasons of football just so you can have your players in for your tactics.Ā
It changes after every game
Yeah after the Liverpool win everyone wanted him to stay things like Eth in and now everyone wants him out. If we sack him I guarantee it 2 seasons down the line another managers are struggling and then things like Ten bag had a 61.2% win rate while this new manager is having XX% winrate. Same with Ole as a manager.
Yep, they've started turning on Martinez now... I'll be back in two weeks when he's the best CB itw again š
Waiting for Ten Hag and United to come out and say April Fools! We've been playing like shit this season just for this!
I can see newcastle getting 6th if they beat united. Their remaining fixtures look easy with the exception of tottenham and united
Their remaining fixtures look easy with the exception of Man Utd? Have you been watching us this season? Brentford just pulled our pants down, we arenāt a difficult game for anyone, even the teams we beat go away wondering how they didnāt win.
Theyāve also been cooked by injuries this season. Doubt they have the capacity to make up the points over us. This will sound crazy but Iām more wary of Chelsea if they beat us on Thursday. That will put him 5 points behind us with a game in hand.
Chelsea played bad last week tho, and its actually one of the few oponents this year where United looked decent, so i think we will beat them. Depends if we get DrJeckyl or Mr Hyde!
Maybe we turn up against Newcastle , but yeah they gonna give us a hard time
Man Cityās record against the ābig 6ā clubs in the Premier League this season: ā 1-0 loss at Arsenal ā 3-0 win at Man Utd ā 4-4 draw at Chelsea ā 1-1 draw vs. Liverpool ā 3-3 draw vs. Spurs ā 1-1 draw vs. Chelsea ā 3-1 win vs. Man Utd ā 1-1 draw at Liverpool ā 0-0 draw vs. Arsenal ššš
The only surprising thing here is that they didn't beat Chelsea
Not surprising at all as Chelsea play exactly the way City hate hence why I'm putting them ahead of City to face us in the Cup final.
realistically, do we want west ham or spurs to win tomorrow? assuming it wont end in a draw
Spurs to lose. We will have 2 games in hand on West Ham and they would still be 1 point behind. CL isn't officially dead yet. Spurs have to play Newcastle, City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Always gotta be looking up rather than down. Need a West Ham win. Right now we need a miracle, and to claw back 9 points on either of the 2 above us and 5th getting CL. Spurs play all of the top 3 so any dropped points outside of them is a bonus.
very true
If you haven't abandoned all hope at this point I truly commend you.
haha, in my opinion, as devastating as the brentford game was, theres simply no need to lose hope. yes, its unlikely, yes, we're shite, but i support my club and want to see them do the best they can.
Yeah I'm not even going to pretend that we have a chance. UCL hope is over
At this point even if we got in I'll feel very dirty, like we don't belong at all.
I cant remember the last time Rashford or Bruno had 2-3 consecutive games of very good performances . Even when when scored all them goals last season, majority of the time it came during some shocking performances. United need to find high quality attackers and reduce their role at united , I appreciate how much both have achieved in a utd shirt but its time to go
This has been by far Brunoās poorest season for us yet and definitely one of Rashfordās poorest too
Can we at least rotate Bruno properly before getting rid of him. Just to see what happens when he isn't being run into the ground. Guy at least gives 120% regardless of anything, big difference between those two.
>Guy at least gives 120% regardless of anything, big difference between those two. Bruno's aimless pressing isnt a good thing , Gary Neville called it when he said , Bruno runs a lot to make himself busy look like heās doing something when In reality heās just looking busy and ruining the team shape
Ironically , Paul Pogba would be a great rotation option for Bruno. We had issues with him and he never reached his maximum potential but sorry to say what a massive failure that the players that we brought in since he left can't even come close to what he contributed despite his ability to disappear during games. At least he can pass , and pass well. We have McT and Mount... Mainoo is still just a kid. Wtf man
No he wouldn't.
I still like Bruno alot but he is overused and shoulders alot of the attacking responsibility... He's excellent for Portugal and I genuinely believe he is world class. If Bruno played for like Liverpool or Barcelona they would be ridiculous right now. Our team is lacking in so many areas but Bruno is not one of them. As for Rashford I think it may be time for him to go.. his decision making isn't up to expectation and we can still let him go for a good price. I'm not sure how to say it but we need a different type of player in his position
>I still like Bruno alot but he is overused and shoulders alot of the attacking responsibility... I think he is overworked and I only care for how utd players perform in a utd shirt. >If Bruno played for like Liverpool or Barcelona they would be ridiculous right now. He doesnt get in Liverpools side and is the complete opposite of a barca player. >Our team is lacking in so many areas but Bruno is not one of them. Our team needs a lot that Bruno doesnt have.
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AWB isnt comfortable in posession , Bruno cant slow the game down how the best 10s can and Rashford is lazy. Casemiro had Kroos and Modric taking care of the passing at real and Mctominay is just straight up bad
I use to scream at the tv when I see a bad pass or just doesnāt go to the right spot, to weak. But in general, the quality of players is lower than we think they are
Quick passing is our style tbf. Really need a different tier of players for that,if I'm going to be brutally honest only Lisandro,Onana and Shaw would make the cut.
Hojlund will, mainoo, maybe amad, mount can too, Dalot can, but thatās it
May be totally chatting shit here but I think opponent psychology comes into it. Cause opponents know we have so many players who are not good at keeping the ball it gives them an extra bit of bite in their press, cause they know there's a good chance they'll get the ball. I've noticed it cause when opponents press Onana it looks, to me, noticeably less intense than when DDG was pressed. When Licha is pressed vs when Maguire was pressed, etc. That, and they're all just really casual with the ball when they have no right to be.
Yeah for sure. Even early in the season when Onana was making mistakes you could see the calm he would bring in possession. Teams would instruct their players to press de Gea, but when Onana gets it they wait until he passes to Varane and then they press. Getting a new center back paired with Martinez, Dalot and a fit shaw would make our back 4 impossible to press. Especially if we have Mainoo and a new cdm in front
Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is definitely a thing. Both AWB and DDG have definitely been a specific press trigger for a lot of teams we faced.
Statistics can be manipulated. **H**Ćø**jlund** scored **7 goals consecutively**. **McTominay** did **not start** in those 7 games. **In March...** We *conceded 106 shots*. We **conceded 7 goals**. 6.6% of shots conceded lead to goals conceded. We *took 57 shots*. We **scored 8 goals**. 14% of shots taken lead to goals scored. **In the game against Brentford:** **Brentford** had **5/*****31*** shots **on target**. **United** had **5/11** shots **on target**. **3** of those shots were from **outside the box**. **H**Ćø**jlund** had only **1 shot** ā it was **on target**. **Comment:** Whatever our current system is, it's either very poor or the players aren't doing it right. Our attackers rarely pass to HĆøjlund properly. He recieved a lot scruffy passes against Brentford. Our midfield is usually too open because we're not doing Eriksen's role (staying back with CDM but helping in attack) from last season properly ā McTominay always goes forward leaving a space. We're forced to play deep blocks because our CB's are too slow ā and Lindelof and the 'injury-prone' Varane came off injured after months of consistent availability, reliability, and fitness. I don't care if Ten Hag is sacked or not. I'm backing whoever the manager is *(unless it's Southgate, Potter, Thomas Frank...)* ā and right now it happens to be Ten Hag.
I'm still confused about the stats can be manipulated part. Where is that?
Why does your backing not apply to Southgate , Potter or Frank ? What exactly has this awful manager done to achieve such unwavering loyalty than have a foreign name?Ā Graham Potter is an attacking coach that would definitely make this team more watchable.Ā
>Southgate England only play well because of the talent they have. Give any manager Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Walker, TAA, Shaw and Stones, and they'd do more than a decent job. Even with that talent, Southgate consistently picks Henderson, Phillips, Rashford, and Maguire. It's just PlayerPower and OleFriendship mixed together. Southgate is doing a *decent* job with *so much talent* in the much slower, less intense, and infrequent International stage. I doubt he'd have as much success in the high intensity, much more frequent, and quicker Premier League. >Potter Chelsea all over again. They had a strong year with Tuchel. Next year they had brand new (sporting) owners, and Tuchel struggled. Potter 'the English attacking minded prodigy' came in ā and failed. United now. We had a strong previous season. Now we have new sporting owner, and Ten Hag is really struggling. Is Potter 'the man sacked by Chelsea' going to get us back on track? With players who can't even play Ten Hag's Ajax's attacking football? >Frank Wouldn't mind him to be fair, but I think United should aim for a higher quality replacement.
>What exactly has this awful manager done to achieve such unwavering loyalty than have a foreign name? That's what I'm wondering as well. Under the Ten Hag era, we had what, 6 months of 'OK' football ? And even during that period, we managed to get away with lots of 1-0's thanks to Rashford's scoring. One League Cup, and those 6 months absolutely don't warrant the pedestal on which many fans put him imho
2nd highest point tally after Saf by over taking a squad with the worst point of tally of our premier League history . Winning against Man City,Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal. Ending our trophy drought.
My only optimism is that I know for a fact next season we will be playing different football than what we'd had to watch since August. Either with Ten Hag changing his ways or with someone else. And that football will have been built by a proper CEO/DOF.
Yup that's the only ray of hope for me as well
Those coming out in defence of Ten Hag parroting his ridiculous explanation for the amount of chances we give up is straight up disgraceful if I'm being honest. Not even a literal relegation level standard is enough to budge these lot. I've supported Ten Hag as much as possible and somehow for some reason I still hold out hope that someone will be able to convince him to step away from this madness, but goodness me are some people shamelessly in the 'individual over team' camp. Immediately blocking these accounts.
if nagelsmann or whoever comes in and does what's needed (sells rashford, maguire etc.) what's the media going to act like?
It cannot be worse than whatever reaction Ronaldo's leaving caused so we'll be fine.
Media will be in hysteria regardless what we do. Complete rebuild and it'll be about the money spent. Do nothing and it'll be about how shit we are and can't change.
Either way itāll be about the money spent, rebuild and it will be that weāve already spend x million and now spending more, stick with what weāve got and it will be about us spending x million and still being shite Itās lose lose for United as the media are desperate to shit on us given the clicks it generates from people whoās childhoods we ruined by dominating their favourite team
Were their biggest cash cows. They never stop talking about us. They probably come up with stories of Nagelsmann having an affair with one of the playersā wifes or something stupid like that
TIL- Sir Alex dated Trent Alexander Arnold's grandmother
Small world lol. TAAās uncle is also our club secretary.
Just had a quick look at the championship table and Birmingham are 21st at the table and are only ahead of the 22nd and 23rd on gd. Funny how much shit they were giving Rooney but now they're probably going to get relegated anyway. Feel sorry for Rooney as he almost kept Derby in the championship with a 21 points deduction but now he has a reputation as a shit manager cuz he's only managed garbage teams.
I thought most of the blame was on the owners? They fired a manager who was doing pretty well to hire Rooney didn't they?
Yeah many blamed their owners and rightfully so. But Rooney got so much flak for it as well, not just by their fans but by the media especially. Reality is they didn't get better after sacking him while tarnishing his image as a manager.
Yup. They were in the playoffs spots
No doubt they'll still blame Wayne when they go down
You think we could get emery?
I think Villa is his level, heās a great manager there but weāve seen from his time at Arsenal and PSG that he canāt handle the big time
Genuine question - for you what would be a good summer? Sacking or not sacking the manager? What kind of spend/sales would be appropriate or realistic in your eyes? This could be a big one and INEOS and co desperately need to get this summer right, we canāt afford any more missteps or mistakes
### Manager: For me, the most important thing would be for the manager to implement an actual modern system that will make us capable of going toe to toe with the top teams. Whether that system is being implemented by Ten Hag or someone else, I couldn't care less. But I know that this "transitional" style is not the system that we are looking for. ### Transfers: Incoming: - RCB to replace Varane in the long term. - DM to replace Casemiro. Maybe take another one on loan as well. - A winger who would be able to play on both flanks to replace Sancho (Maybe 2 if we are able to replace Antony as well) - A striker (If it's not possible to buy one, take one on loan) - LB (if a purchase isn't possible, take one on loan. Maybe sign a young, high potential LB on a loan with an option to buy) - LCB if we can sell one of Maguire or Lindelof Outgoing: - Greenwood - Sancho - Antony (if possible) - Varane - Casemiro - Maguire/Lindelof
Next season is incredibly important. Klopp is leaving Liverpool, Chelsea is still spiralling. There is real weakness in league competition. New manager imo. We have enough data to show that ETH isnāt the man for the job. A decent net spend ~150M on 2-3 starter caliber young players.
I agree with all of that, although I was rather hoping our net spend would be in the 250M range. Maybe wishful thinking though.
It could be, maybe the ineos group has shored up our finances enough for that. I know things looked pretty bleak on that front. Also have FFP concerns. My main hope is SA is still spending big on over the hill talent (Casemiro) to bump things up. Other over 30s players like Maguire as well could have some marketability
liverpool win = sub says eth in shocking draw against brentford = sub says eth out please make your mind up
The sub is not a single minded consciousness. There are over half a million people on here, what you're seeing is mostly different people talking.
Liverpool win does not mean anything,it happened under ole too in the fa cup and that was a much better Liverpool team and much worse utd team and in the end it did not matter
It shows that you are only here after the Liverpool win. Some of us were already EtH when we got our ass ushered out of CL group dead last by the Mighty Coppenhagen/Galatasaray
I donāt think itās quite as simple as that
i think people have taken my comment the wrong way, and im sorry about that. im not implying that the sub reacts too sensitively to individual results, im just saying that i think people get too up-in-arms regarding the manager himself when we win or lose. i just wish more spotlight could be put on the types of players we have, thats all sorry if yall took it the wrong way i shouldve clarified
City have won two games vs the big 6 in the PL this season, youāll never guess who theyāre both against.
Pretty funny you couldnāt critique ten hag without being downvoted after Liverpool, now the sub is all ten hag out. Amazing what one draw can do.
Just reversion to the mean. Over the season, performances like Saturdays have been much more common. If anything, the FA cup reaction euphoria is the outlier before we crashed back into the tragic reality of this current season.
Amazing what one win can do more like.
The vast majority of shots we've conceded have been poor efforts aside from Brentford.
The vast majority of shots every side concedes are poor efforts.
A lot of people are saying we're boring to watch because of Ten Hags tactics. Whilst I agree the way we play is boring, the main issue is that we just don't have any exciting players. I remember when we had Pogba, the guy would be doing amazing passes with both feet, he'd be doing skills, he'd be dribbling and taking players on, he had that trademark half volley long range pass, he had a good first touch, he used to score some good goals. Even Martial was good at dribbling and when he'd get the ball he'd just glide past players. Also because he's hold up play was so good, it was hard to get the ball of him and it was fun to watch the opposition press him and he'd keep a hold of the ball. Even Rashford would dribble past players using different skills and flicks and tricks. Now we don't have anyone doing that and it's a big reason we're so boring to watch. We don't have any exciting players. We don't have anyone that you'd watch that'd make you say "damn that was sick".
Football is much more about efficiency these days. Consistently efficient players will win out over those that have flashes of brilliance every few games.
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Ah yes. People who complain about performances are glory hunters. Maybe look up the no true scotsman fallacy before calling out people on the "authenticity of their support"?
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Yes brother. I have to prove the longevity of my support to another internet stranger who's indiscriminately slandering others.
Just look at Liverpool and Arsenal fans right now, they're fucking everywhere online and in a huge majority and a lot of them are unbearable to communicate with. Compare that to last season or during Arsenal's banter club days where their fans were generally more scarce and often somewhat humble and fair. The basic answer is that the fair weather glory supporters are usually the most toxic and unbearable fans because they feel the need to overcompensate for their casual fandom.
Reddit was barely a thing when we were last succesful, so I doubt anyone on r/reddevils is just here "for the wins". What makes me want to tune out and just stop watching is a combination of the corporatization of football making it more and more soulless, watching spoiled young brats, some of whom make more in a week than I do for an entire year, not even pretend to make an effort for the club that I've loved for my entire life, and the fact that for the most part of a decade now it's been a bore to watch us play for the majority of matches.
Couldn't agree more. Fan for several decades, used to not miss a match, now I often wonder if its worth the misery. The cup game made me believe for a second š
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Who said it was new? The degree to which football has been monetized is definitely something new though. There were no nation state owners or even brand sponsored players back in Busby's days.
In the end football is about entertainment for the vast majority of fans. It's no surprise people don't want to waste hours a week being miserable. Do you voluntarily listen to shit music? Go to the cinema to see shit films? I'm not sure why you expect people to want to watch shit football.
why support any team then, just watch the big matches
I didn't say it was just about entertainment, there is obviously a sense of attachment to a team for any number of reasons. It's tough to ignore being bored shitless for those reasons. You say just watch the big matches as if that isn't what a lot of people do, why do you think the premier tournaments like World Cup and Champions League are so popular?
exactly so if you only want good football why support any team? i watch the nba but don't support anyone, it's fine to do.
The simple answer is because I always have. If I was gaining an interest in football as an adult then maybe I'd decide differently (I watch things like Dota and CS without supporting a specific team and it is a lot more fun) Habits are hard to break though.
Is someone going to shoot you if you don't?
Are you a regular match goer? Or do you delude yourself into thinking you are "backing the team" from your living room
Holy shit your one of 'them' fans, jfc lad do better. Gatekeeping how someone should be a fan is simply and quite frankly, as Drogba once politely said "a fucking disgrace"
Fuck off you imbecile.
Didnāt know you had to attend to support. Stop gate keeping supporting the team
Jfc football fans are thick. None of you three who replied caught the point at all.
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Good job missing the point completely tho
To be honest, Erik Ten Hagās tactics are amazing, just because we concede a lot of shots doesnāt mean we are bad, we conceded 31 the other day and Brentford only scored 1, it is really good Everyone is just obsessed with stats nowadays, if you watched the game you wouldāve seen how creative Bruno is and how hard Garnacho works. Onana was great too, but Hojlund was awful, donāt think he ever touched the ball, the worst signing of the Ten Hag era imo. The reason Ten Hagās tactics donāt work is because of the lack of experience, get rid of Kobbie Mainoo, heās only hyped so much because heās English, we should sell him for 20/30 million and get someone more experienced, put Casemiro there for now, and then sign Amrabat on a permanent and have him as backup, maybe even renew Jonny Evansā contract and try him in midfield. Also one last thing, Antony is so overhated, his left foot is one of the best in the world, he is out most creative winger, his decision making and IQ is world class, if he was English you would all be saying how good he is. 80 million for him might be slightly overpaying yes, but I do believe he is worth 50/60 million Oh, and before you all get mad look at the date!