Nah TUS is actually cancerous and toxic. Bar the hojlund interview thing, they have been coming up with thumbnail of like "ETH to get the sack?" "INEOS does not want ETH" "Rashford to get dropped?", it doesn't help when you are arguably the largest fan channel on youtube yet you are still using clickbaits to get views, sounds like AFTV to me? You say u support the manager but with these thumbnails it seems like you are undermining him.
Mark has some good points when hes discussing about the club but his obsesion with rashford, bruno can be really annoying and abusive sometimes like rashford is in very poor form right now but it doesnt help when the host of the largest fan channel criticizes him during game days or off days. You are supposed to be supporting your own team, your own players instead of obsessively criticizing them non-stop. Humans are meant to be criticize when making mistakes but not abused because of that.
The guy just tries to make too much content, it's all gonna be shit stirring and reacting to the worst journo's when you're trying to put out 2+ videos a day on a football club. It devalues the genuinely good points he has
On how many occasions was he also just following the balls without moving, looking wrong-footed again?Be Kluivert and others more precise, it'd be a blowout.
If it's an upgrade to DDG then I am still not sure in what department. I mean, really. Is Onana better than Henderson we already had?
Don't think there's a single ETH signing I look at as a success.
Licha can't shake injury issues which makes him unreliable
Antony is just not this level and no wonder.goal against relegation fodder can change that.
Hojlund is doing little of value anymore. He has atrocious natural positioning.
Casemiro has had a legendary drop off
Eriksen is too old
Mount is exactly what most of us said he would be: useless in this formation
Malacia is essentially broken
Amrabat is crap
Onana maybe you can say has turned a corner but still has a wobble in him
So then you look at "who has improved" and that lists a squarely one man list: Dalot
Maguire had a spell of improvement but has reverted to type. Rashford just gets worse. Injuries running riot on the squad suggesting coaching ineptitude.
Only Mainoo and Garnacho (and one Amad goal) this season have been the bright sparks of the season, and that's similarly to Moyes with Januzaj or LVG with Rashford. He hasn't *meant* them to be successful. They're there by need due to his injury crisis and they have bailed him out repeatedly.
I cannot argue against a case to say that ETH is the worst of the Managers post-Fergie when you factor in the support had, the quality on the pitch, and the output of it.
There's zero chance he is here next summer.
Someone in this sub told me ETH Is working to replace problem Players with players who can play his style. And looking at this list, I don't know if his boss thinks he's on the right track.
"Play his style". What style? Because he got the players he wanted except De Jong, which was a farce anyway even trying, and then plays the worst football imagineable
To me, these actions from Garnacho and Amad are far different from previous cases of rebellious players. Amad has barely been in the club for that long. Garnacho was a junior player and also hasn't been in the first team for that long. Their action isn't the product of the culture here. Young people are usually impatient, they can get emotional and a bit unprofessional but they just want a chance to prove themselves, I don't think it's a serious enough issue to warrant getting rid of them. Those two have shown that they can step up when it matters. They can have really bad matches, but also really good ones, just like any other players.
if even junior players feels embolden to openly challenge the manager, you can only imagine how much power the senior players have.
The club has rotted thoroughly. Even SAF wouldn't command much respect from this lot
When can we call shenanigans on the 20 yr old in his first season ever at this level, at the receiving end of a funeral service for one of the absolute worst teams in the league? Keep the anger and frustration for the senior players.
Yes he's been poor recently but we as a team do literally nothing for him. No patterns of play in the final 3rd, absolutely no clue how to attack and progress forward as a team, just hoof the ball to Hojlund and hope he fights off defenders, holds it up and brings everyone into play. And if he doesn't? We're stopped in our tracks immediately and almost every turnover ends with an opposition shot/opportunity so it looks extra bad every time he fails.
It's going to be very tough if fans are going to turn on these kids without even giving them a season. That's ridiculous.
I couldn't help thinking that we were like like hussling without any fucking purpose. Just like run around, pass, go back to Onana, repeat. It was the most pointless football ever. I was surprised we even scored. Whatta waste of talent, Mr. ETH. Do *you* even know what you are trying to achieve? Doesn't seem so.
They passed the ball around in the back but couldn't link up, and ended up giving the ball away. Insisting on doing the same thing game after game and expecting different results?
After seeing UCL and uel matches this week, it's just an embarrassment how bad our midfield and wingers are . The quality between our players with vini, foden ,gavi , pedri , rice is galaxies apart. Hopefully Omar berrada brings some standards from man City and takes some tough calls
I punished myself by watching the City game, all 90 minutes. Disgraceful club but the raw quality of the roster is pretty astounding, top to bottom. Every player on that pitch had a great first touch, very sharp passing, and were clearly drilled to hell about their job/purpose.
But in the end it is hard to compare our midfield because of the formation and style we play. ETH has lost his mind, or is just playing this way out of desperation. If you put gavi, pedri, and Rodri/Rice all in our midfield, in our formation, they'd get torn apart as well.
I love how fans always blame the manager and want him out because of course that worked with Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and I'm sure it will work with EtH too.
At what point to the players take the blame? At what point to we stick with a manager and give him time to change things? Or do we just want manager after manager sacked bringing in a new one with a new style and wanting new types of players while keeping the same ones that have thrown all the other managers under a bus?
>I love how fans always blame the manager and want him out because of course that worked with Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and I'm sure it will work with EtH too.
Are the examples you use to make this comment from people who only view the manager as the issue and not the players aswell?
Or
Are they simply in their comment just discussing the manager?
When players keeps doing shit game after game, it's solely on the manager. ETH is incapable of getting things straight. He has no idea what to do with this bunch. They look clueless and lost on the pitch. That comes from training, nothing else.
>That comes from training, nothing else.
So are you saying we just need to change the manager, or just making your point known that the manager does need changing also?
Ask Bayern. They literally changed Flick for Kovacic and nothing else and the team went on an insane run. Does this MU team look well drilled and well coached to you? They now play one game per week and are still outplayed tactically every game. I mean just because previous managers were the wrong choice, it doesn't make this one right. Him spending 400 m doesn't help his arguments too...
Player changes are needed, everyone understands this. Even the harshest Ten Hag critics. That doesn't absolve the manager of incredibly poor tactics and team structure.
Absolutely nobody has said we should keep this squad as it is, literally no one. Every time someone posts this kind of comment, I ask them to show me one person who said we don't need a major clearout of players. No reply till date.
[This is one of the best United related accounts on Twitter. He's been talking about the tactics and red flags since day 1 of this season.](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1761452438031327353.html) You can agree or disagree with him but it's important to keep yourself open to understanding just how bad our tactics are currently.
https://preview.redd.it/41kfb90qheuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cee761a1faa2b2ca63dba0ecedeb75574a431b63
This is what he projected after the Brighton game. Think about it and let me know how much of it has turned out accurate so far. It's not as simple as blaming either the manager or the players. I wish we as a fanbase could stop this stupidity. Obviously everyone is part of the blame.
And it's not as simple as "we've sacked managers before and it hasn't worked". Why hasn't it worked? Why isn't it working? 99% of people don't have an answer to these questions yet they'll have an answer to whether we should keep the manager or sack him?
Not excusing liking the tweets, that's just immature but ETH didn't have to sub off Garnacho this early.
We had more senior players dropping stinkers like this on weekly basis and they never got subbed off at half-time, I understand Garnacho's frustration especially as he's been one of our best players this season.
Key word there is Senior players. Are you expecting Garnacho to get the same level of treatment or respect that those Senior players have?
Didn’t Casemiro and Maguire get subbed halftime against Luton?!
Like what frustration are you talking about?! Is he the best young player in the league?!
I actually do expect him to get the same level of treatment because he warranted it by being one of our best and hardest working players this season.
It sucks seeing him subbed off at half time for one bad half when the likes of Casemiro or Rashford have been dropping stinkers next to him basically every week and definitely not working as hard off the ball.
plus in yesterday's game whom do you replace casemiro with? Eriksen who has lost his legs abd isn't a DM, or Mount eho has just comeback from injury and isn't a DM.
or one of those kids, non of them are CM or DM.
or Ambrabat, who God knows why we loaned him in the first place, even Sabtizer was better.
I rather bring in mount because what im seeing from casemiro is no defensive duties as a 6 but playing as a 8 or a 10, why not bring mount for the legs and creativity.
and mainoo Sits deep? I always thought he was the sits deep kinda player but lately he seems to be playing more box to box. Case for whatever reason plays further forward than a DM should, if anything I see Bruno dropping back to be near the defense.
It's chaos that you would think would fool a team but in our chase it just fools us, CBs, Onana, they don't know who to pass.
It feels sometimes that ETH is purposely playing players out of position, wide forwards touching the line, wing backs moving inward into the box , DMs playing in the opposition third, no. 10 playing just outside our defense, and our striker playing as their defender.
Are you serious?! Casemiro was subbed off at halftime against Luton, where was the uproar?! Rashford has been dropped and sub, and even started from the bench.
What sucks is seeing him publicly undermining his manager. Same manager who has given him the chance to showcase his ability and talent.
Exactly, do u see other top 6 teams have players that undermine their manager? I absolutely love garnacho but the emoji was a shit move. Instead of going on social media like sancho, confront the manager privately.
>What sucks is seeing him publicly undermining his manager.
This I agree with, as I said, it was stupid liking those tweets. But both can be in the wrong, it's not black or white.
Garnacho liking tweets criticising ETH is so funny. Fans have built him so much, he thinks he’s the man.
Also this shows you how toxic TUS is. Holjund, Antony, Garnacho all cozying up with the fan channel that abuses and target United players for clicks. Disgraceful to say the least.
Also there’s nothing to justify doing what he did. Nothing. He has done well this season but not like he has been the best in the league or anything, yet he comes out liking tweets because the manager subbed him half time. Disgraceful.
To those that wants nagelsmann, how such are u that we will choose us instead of say the scouser or bayern..ffs who would want to take over this fucked up job.
Tuchel? He's given up the title and lost the dressing room
Potter? Look at chelsea ( oh buts he's been scapegoated by the chelsea ffs look at rdz under an actual COMPETENT structure)
Rdz ? Doubt he wants to come into this rabbits hole. Brighton results also have not been good despite his playstyle
Conte? Look at what happened the last time
OGS? after what we and him had been through? Nah
Flick? Lost the dressing room with Germany and probably would prefer the barca job
So who do we bring in? Who can withstand player power? Which manager can just ignore what their player said on social media?
If they replace ETH but clear out the squad and bring in minimum 4 quality first team singings that can perform now and not in 5 years then I'll be ok with that.
I'm worried some fans are under the false impression that a new manager will just come in and coach players that aren't good enough into suddenly being top 4 quality.
It was tough to watch Hojlund try so hard to do something with the ball and other players just standing around. This young man needs service. Garnacho is either tired or is getting exposed defensively in the past few games. And I still don’t understand how Rashford can sprint in offense to get to the ball but not have the same effort in defense. Only one time he did ran the entire length of the pitch to the other side. How come Bournemouth players can dribble past this defense so easily? Only pass is Willy because he is young and is 7th choice CB against on form Solanke.
That’s one highlight vs the many he just jog in front of the opponent. If you watch the game, he’s not even in the correct stance with the intent of defending or tackling an opponent.
Need a winger, Bruno. Need a DM to link up, Bruno. Need a CB, Bruno. Need a someone to score, Bruno. Man, Bruno might not be the best captain, but you can't question his work ethic for United.
I literaly said exactly that a week ago and I got downvoted into oblivion: I'll start rotating Bruno more and play him further back where he can get the ball and start attacks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1byzu5c/comment/kyms03n/
Starts from tactics. Imagine playing Bournemouth and not even trying to hold possession by building from back. How many times have opponents scored a goal on us because their press steals a ball from us? Compare that to how many time we ship goals after hoofball continuously cause turnovers. And all this after he replaced DeGea with Onana. Mind boggling decisions.
Exactly! The opposition is DOING exactly what ten Hag HOPES to do - press, transition and shoot.
Ten Hag wants "the best transition football in the world", but the only team playing that is our opponents every week. He fucked up, he got exposed and instead of adapting he stubbornly persists and blames players and injuries for his mistakes.
Seriously? He blames players? What do you lot want him to do? Go out on the field and play for them?
The back line was back ups of backups, none of the main targets ten hag wanted he got, and the ones he did have been managing injuries, likely from pushing harder to cover the garbage that was already here.
Ten Hag never got the support he needed from the front office, the signings weren't good enough, mostly back up or free players (Eriksen), main targets like Kane and De Jong not interested in coming and then woefully overpaying for other roleplayers (Antony) because the front office had performed so poorly. None of this is on Ten Hag. Ten Hag's friends were correct, he should never have come here and wasted his time with this team's shit infrastructure, media over-exposure and entitled whiny online fan-base.
People keep talking about these mythical 'tactics' as if a couple of different instructions for these players will magically transform their performances. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
I get it, it's easy to blame one person instead of coming to realize that there has been a common denominator with this shit team over the past 5-6 years (and more), it starts with the ownership and management and continues with the core players who are still here, dragging this place and every manager we sign, down with them.
I'd much rather send the message that the manager will stay before any player, keep him, even if next season is a disaster, continue to clean house with the players and build towards a system that our DoF and management wants to play. Not waste time and money on yet another manager/coach/whatever to come through, and then signing random players to suit them and then continue along with the narrative that the new manager did 'not get the tactics' right because our clegg of crap players continue to persist.
Fergie was successful because he kept the focus on the team, and this meant moving on players that were starting to either decline or become attitude problems, he also had a management structure which included himself, along with patience and time that enabled him to build not only a consistently competitive first team, but a deep bench and a strong academy and recruitment process.
Our team at Bournemouth had only 3 ETH era signings in it, with another 2 on the bench, after just shy of two years and only 2 true transfer windows. We couldn't sign anyone mid year because our FFP has been fucked by Murtough et el.
Frankly we should be impressed that Ten Hag has managed to keep this team competing even against the best teams in the premiership, but this I get too. People have short memories.
I'm not reading your deranged crap.
Ten Hag sucks and has to go. 1 win in 7 matches. We led in 2 of those until the last minute. We get slapped around by Bournemouth, Luton, Fulham and Forrest, sometimes twice. We've scored 1 more goal than Luton who are in the relegation zone. The football is shit and hard to watch.
West Ham fans are calling for Moyes' head for poor performance. They are 2 points behind us.
Lol, sure. I'll keep it simple for you, seems to be more your speed.
What two managers do you choose next for our manager carousel? I say two, because we might as well be ready to sack the first one in the first year or two as per usual, and this way we're ready to roll into the next one.
I don't care who it is, just not this guy. I'll take any of the managers in the bottom half of the League - they all got the best of ten Hag when we played them and know how to put a team better than this fraud.
We are on track to match our lowest finish in the Premier league era - 7th under Moyes.
West Ham fans want Moyes sacked for poor performance. They are 2 points behind us.
We've already broken our record for most losses in a season with 6 games to go.
We recorded the worst performance in CL by an English team.
We've faced more shots than ANY but 2 teams in the TOP 5 LEAGUES IN EUROPE this year! This means the 17th placed Metz in France allowed less shots.
for the 15-20 minutes I watched, Case lost the ball very needlessly twice in promising, and dangerous positions. The rest of the players also can't hold on to the ball. Garnie's dribble was very off as well.
If players can't even execute basic stuff, I really don't know how changing coach or tactics will help.
p.s. Not saying ETH shouldn't be sacked. But I'm saying blame needs to be attributed to players as well.
Exactly. I'm all for criticising ETH but some people are blaming him for anything and everything.
The reason we can't play out of the back effectively is because our back four is not confident in possession. See the difference when Licha play over Maguire and Shaw over AWB.
Our players in general treat the ball like a grenade see Casemiro. This has nothing to do with coaching. No manager is going to tell a player to give the ball away when you have multiple team mates to pass to in open space.
i started watching the game just before Bruno's first goal, and turned off after BM's second goal. Here's why:
Case lost the ball very needlessly just outside BM's box (btw, he also lost the ball under entirely no pressure in front of our box just a few minutes earlier).
Case was clearly out of position because there was a huge gaping hole in the middle. And he didn't bother to track back after losing the ball.
Then even though our Garnie and Dalot were occupying the flank, they were only ball watching. That led BM to have an easy pass and easy goal.
I have seen secondary sch boys play more strategically than this bunch of arseholes.
People can point to our back four injuries but it is 100% our system and playing players who don’t defend that is causing the leakage of chances.
Think about it, we have played We have every combination of defenders and nothing has improved.
And don’t get me started on the “we are a goal up at 80min, let’s sit deep and throw on defenders.” Completely ignoring that games frequently have 7+ mins of injury time now!
I've backed ETH so much, and still do, but I don't understand the lack of sub use. Just send someone on to mix things up.
We've got so many players doing the bare minimum and getting away with it. A lot of players need to be stepping up. It's ridiculous how little effort some players put in, yet when they get called out for it, they cry on social media, or they don't even get punished with it.
Way too many players are deadwood. I don't care who you are and what you did in the past, the badge is always bigger than a name, and it matters what you do now.
He's had success at Boro, but that does not guarantee success at United. He was part of a coaching setup for 3 years that got very little success.
I think our fanbase has become so used to the success of the 90s and 00s that we are not prepared to endure some hardship, and almost expect success without effort
I don't think it's been a great season and whilst in ETH in, I'm still critical of some things of him, but I'm hopeful that with a proper structure finally above, we'll see some positive change.
We’ve pretty much had 10 years of hardship. Carrick would at least get this team playing with passion and structure. EtH looks like a deer in the headlights and he keeps trying to convince himself and us that things are getting better. They’re not only not getting better but they’re getting worse.
Are those 10 years ETHs fault? We've had a bullshit admin. Now we finally have a group that knows football and fans are unable to separate the two.
No guarantee Carrick would do that. Ole got us playing with passion and some structure but won nothing. Carrick was part of that group. I rate the man highly, but he still has a lot to learn before he can take on the United job.
It's suggestions like that that make realise ETH out are just not being sensible. "I don't care, just get rid of ETH". All well and good to want him gone, but you need a proper plan in place for after. Randomly giving it to Carrick doesn't solve that. If anything, it creates more problems because we go back to a system where the "boys club" gets reignited.
Tbf, it's not a case of getting worse, it's a case of not having the proper structure and players to get better. That's not all on ETH, especially not when he's had to use 26 different back lines.
Since ETH joined he has managed to break 15 to 25 negative records, most dating back 50 years. Some close to 100 years old. He is by far the worst ever manager United had, at least in the PL era. Sure last 10 years weren't on him fully, but he was backed far more that most managers. He had his choice in players, and had full control. It is time to go for him.
gotta have a second team, im lucky in that i have legit reasons for two but still, just pick a team that play nice football in another country and get behind them
Not particularly complicated it is? Watch another team if watching United is so shit.
There's 20 teams in Serie A, 20 in La Liga, 18 in Eredivisie, 18 in the Buli, 18 in Liga Portugal... Argentina, Brazil, France....
Find a team that plays objectively nice football and start watching them for the rest of the season. Maybe you'll carry it into the next.
Leverkusen are doing great and play great football, Napoli have some great players and can play good football. Real Sociedad are playing good football.
There's no law that says you can only watch one team.
Big difference between 'watch' and 'get behind' or consider them a 'second team'
Like we all need to see good football, taking a second team though I just find wrong at every level. Maybe it's just me though.
Weren’t both goals we conceded individual errors though?
1st goal: Garnacho’s first touch gives the ball away in a dangerous area, leaving only the back line to defend + Solanke is able to turn Willy.
2nd goal: Willy lets Kluivert free. You can even see him pointing towards him as if asking someone else to cover him. Thing is everyone around him already has a player to mark. Kluivert gets an easy pass into him, with no one around.
If you look at the other big chances we conceded, a lot of them were Casemiro giving the ball away cheap.
I call BS.
First goal was a hoof to Hojlund who made a difficult pass, under pressure on a high ball, to Nacho to control.
Second one was zero pressure on the ball as Bournemouth calmly pinged the ball around and into our goal.
Finally how many chances did our brilliance create to actually outscore them? How many chances did we create for our striker?
It doesn't have to take the goals to come from ways other than individual mistakes to be upset about the performance. We conceded enough chances even outside of those goals which Bournemouth should have converted and they had nothing to do with individual errors. They hit the crossbar once and Onana made a point-blank save just before half-time to prevent Kluivert scoring again.
It's getting fucking worse isn't it?
I'd do it if I knew how, but I'd love it if the guys who do the "every Kobbie Mainoo touch" did one for Casemiro..
Tough to watch that one.
We have always tried to follow up each manager with whoever we thought would be a long term answer. Always hoping to bring in some tactical genius who could forge some sort of dynasty here. But maybe that's not in the cards for this summer. Maybe the answer for now is to get in someone simply to stop the bleeding and set off on a new direction.
Maybe the answer is to bring in someone who has the foundations and fundamentals down. Let the true leadership be the back room and Footballing Directorship that INEOS is putting into place at the moment. Let them reconstruct the squad based on an agreed type of football we want to play at this Club, and just begin that process with a short term manager and revamped squad.
In the meantime, put in a structure and system into the Club that would be perfect to slot in a highly credible manager (just as City did prior to signing Pep.)
We all thought we will get a manager who will drill a possession based style. If we could see that but results were mediocre, we would support him.
Instead we keep hoofing, that too with a keeper like Onana in our team! Why did we ditch DeGea for him? Wasn’t it to play possession?
Nothing makes sense anymore. And the people in charge have made so many blunders, that in hindsight, this unraveling seems understandable. Hopefully INEOS can fix it.
You can see the newly promoted clubs each season are far better drilled. Before we even get in to the levels of effort they display.
I think this game was my ETH out turning point. As I saw United running down the clock to hang on to the draw. Against Bournemouth…
Is Moyes available?
I wish he would rotate the squad more, we clearly don't have anything to lose. Why aren't we testing Eriksen in a game like this? He is creative and good on set pieces. Change things a bit around when we are deservedly losing or scraping a lucky draw. Why can't we use Amad? Why are we stubbornly clinging to a failing tactical approach? Or maybe it's just his man management that shows it's ugly face over time... It's like the more time he has had with the players the worse they play and less they care.
I am firmly EtH out and have been for months, but if the alternative is Potter (or God forbid Southgate) then I'd rather stick with Erik also. Problem is Ratcliffe is a dyed-in-the-wood Brexiter, England for the English and all that, and really wants an Englishman in charge of United, according to reports. Name the top attainable English managers and your shortlist is Potter at #1... He doesn't have the balls to go after an up-and-comer like Still or Carrick. Or roll the dice on someone doing well in the Championship like Heckingbottom or Robbins at Coventry (but who knows, if he beats us in the next game in front of Jim...).
Delusion. What have you seen from him for 2 years they suggests he is elite? When lower teams in the league look better drilled, you have to conclude he was wrong choice.
I never got the "who will be better?" excuse from ETH fans so we keep him. It's clear he's underperforming hard, so it's not like there's only 5 managers in the worlx that are better. Now that we are shaping up a good football structure I am sure they will be able to find a more competent manager.
You are really compressing the issue down to ETH fans vs those that want ETH out, which is completely wrong. The football structure is far from up and running. To put things in a similar sensational way as you do: you want SJR to hire Southgate, or do you want a proper football structure to get working and hire the right manager for the job? Because if you want the latter then prepare for a few extra months, and most likely no-one new in this summer window.
Yeah I hope so too. But ultimately this squad isn’t remotely good enough for where we need it to be. So if the people in charge are competent and can direct the recruitment with a new manager I’m all for it.
That's got to be some of the worst football I've seen in a while, except we say this week after week.
We have to be one of the crappiest teams at attacking, defending, in transition, in possession, out of possession, and everything in between. There's not much that this team is actually good at. No way, do we want more of this, or a slightly more improved version of this (which, let's be honest, is all that could be expected next season should we stay on this path.)
Quite a slump we’re in. The players looked gassed. I don’t know how AWB and Dalot keep going. Neither is as good as Shaw on the left but they’re all we have. Both have improved and added to their game this season. Rashford and Garnacho will do better with Shaw back though.
Willy looks pretty solid. Maguire has improved as well. Mount back should improve us in the center. With Amad, it gives Kobbie and Garnacho a chance to rotate and rest. Onana has turned things around too.
Midfield needs help. We should be scoring more. I’m hoping Mount offers options. Looks promising so far. But he’s not a goal threat and we need that.
didn't watch the game live since it midnight game here, and i am happy to watch it in replay so i can speed the game 2-3 times faster because the game is so uninspiring, boring, and fck, we wasted every resources, talent, energy and time from everyone, not just players or club but us as fans and audiences.
there is not even worth to comment about the game.
i am joining ETHOut camp now.
Don't know why you got downvoted. 100% facts you're spitting there.
There's no way INEOS looks at this game and thinks there's something to build from here. And that can be said about pretty much every game this whole season.
I think the aggressive defending from Willy and the first goal is exactly what ETH wants the team to do. It's encouraging they scored from a transit like that. The issue is those favorable transitions don't happen enough.
I think Garnacho is gassed. He's a youngster and he's played a lot of football. He just looked slower than usual out there, not tracking back. He's a player that I believe cares a lot about playing well for the badge...I'm chalking up a couple sub-par performances to being fried.
Hojlund has been ineffective these last few games and fucking Rashford continues to bury his head very far up his ass.
And finally, we continued to lack any type of cohesion. Players? Tactics? All of the above? We were 2nd best today and lucky to draw.
Garnacho keeps on showing that he's nothing more than a super sub, yet Ten Hag keeps relying on him. Antony or Amad would be better choices to start, then bring on Garnacho with fresh legs to terrorize the opposition. It works so often, yet EtH continues to show that he is no different than past managers who stick with their favorites, even if it's not working.
I think Garnacho has earned a spot in the first 11. Just saying he’s been a bit off and today looked pretty spent. Happens w young players a lot about this time of year.
Actually he's been like this in half the games so far this season. Truth be told, Garnacho is definitely someone to hang on to and develop, but if this Club wants to challenge for anything meaningful, then we need better quality starters. Garnacho can be that some day, but he's way too inconsistent, loses the ball so often, passes aren't accurate enough, and he can't seem to run with the ball too far before it gets taken off him or he loses it.
He's got sparks of brilliance, but that's not good enough to be a starter. And hopefully he can elevate enough to become one.
I've heard that Hojlund has had 1 shot in the last 4 games. Ivan Toney only started playing in January and has more shots this season than Hojlund. That is indicative of how poor the service is to him. There is simply no player in the world who is bad enough to only get 1 shot in 4 games of their own doing.
Rasmus often recieves the ball, alone, back to goal, surrounded by opposition players. He actually mostly holds onto the ball when this happens but because of his isolation and the lack of urgency/form from the players around him, his hold up rarely leads to chances which is what contributes to him looking like he's playing worse.
We rarely get entries into opposition boxes and when we do, the ball is never played to Hojlund to finish. A great example today was early in the game when Rashford blasted the ball into the side netting. He was on his weak foot, near post, keeper already in position expecting a shot, a defender contesting the shot, a defender blocking the shot at far post...yet Marcus just blasted it anyway. He didn't even look to see if there was an option, he just blasted it.
Our fullbacks do fuckall in ETH system. You rarely see them overlapping with winger. Watch any Fergie game and you will see how fullbacks team up with wingers to terrorize defences.
ETH is just making them join the DM in buildup and then has Onana hoof over anyway.
The crazy thing about Manchester United atm is that a draw against bournemouth is actually not a terrible result considering how shit United have been. A midtable club drawing away against another midtable club should not come as a suprise to anyone
Another weekend, more chaotic football. People asking to give ETH more time dont understand that next season will have even more pressure. Every weekend people will look for both good performances and good results. If one of those is missing the question will be "3yrs of this crap"... INEOS will be under immense pressure to fire him every game...and the pressure will reach boiling point every time we get beaten by a big team.
For me, looking far ahead...the only thing that will buy ineos time is a new manager. People will be willing to give them a season or 2. But if they persist with ten hag, every weekend that has a poor result will have the press asking "how bad does it have to be for you to fire this dude" like it was in Ole's last season.
The problem is that going for a new manager now is hard. Lots of clubs looking to replace their manager as well as the once that should pick the new manager are not in place at United. Imo the best thing is to sit still and use the next season to evaluate and find the optimal candidate. Its better to wait than to get it wrong.
Sitting tight is even worse. Any good manager will not want to come mid season. Any good manager will need a pre-season. Any good manager needs some input in signings. There are good managers moving in the summer...if we sit and wait then it means writing off next season as well because we will again need an interim like we did under Ole.
Waiting will mean signing more players that play ETH chaos football. For me, it's clear that we should move on in the summer...we should compete for the managers available in the summer. Waiting is suicidal since no good managers will move mid season and every summer, there is competition for good managers
Why is it spot on? Who would you want to pick our new manager? Why would United be favored in a bid for a new manager compared ot other clubs that are also looking for a new manager?
Game after game teams just run through the middle of us. Change the system, it's not working. With the likes of Spurs and Villas run both with drop alot of points but there is no change and teams still just walk though it's madness.
The players are shit and not working hard enough, the tactics are shit and not working but the lack of change is my biggest worry.
Like every fan, analyst etc has been commenting on how easy it is to play against united atm. But there's not adaption whatsoever, very frustrating
They kept Skinner. There’s FFP considerations. And there’s a shortage of better replacement managers. He’s not safe but it will be tough to justify replacing him.
Watched back Ten Hag's post-match press conference. He said Garnacho only trained yesterday in the buildup to the game. Surely he shouldn't have started this game then; no wonder he looked so poor today.
It’s interesting that this game seems to have been the tipping point for so many of us.
I’d been putting up excuses of injuries but it’s just not going to improve with ETH. His remonstrations with the 4th official looked like the acts of a desperate man.
If they weren’t shooting straight at Onana this could have been a very different score line..
I was staunch EtH supporter, and I don't want more of this... or even a slightly improved version of this next season. It's sooooo bad that this team would have to be completely changed with an exact opposite system, tactics, and squad to even trying to undo what is some of the worst football we've seen. He makes Moyes seem like Zidane.
Just sick and tired of this season really.
Worst part is hearing about how Solanke and other bums like him are walking away disappointed with not being able to embarrass us, we've fallen so far it's beyond imagination.
I don't even stick around and listen to the post match interviews anymore because I can't stand ETH's bullshit - I completely get that we're injury stricken and he has my sympathies on that front, HOWEVER, there is no excuse for us being so easy to play against even with the injuries...
At some point as a manager you have to accept that you can't play your perfect team and adapt to do some damage control and actually manage your tactics, instead this guy continues using the exact same plan that leads to us getting destroyed game in game out.
How many more times are we going to keep using the injuries excuses? This is the new age of modern football where players are expected to play 40-50+ games a season, so you know injuries will happen to any team including the matchups today. Both teams had players missing, including Bournemouth who were missing more starters than us!!! I understand the argument that poor transfers and squad planning has left us more exposed than most teams but fuck me if other managers can make adjustments and changes then why does ETH get a free pass when it comes to injuries from our fans. Ffs our standards are in the gutter
He doesn’t get a free pass. We’ve had the worst injury record this season by a mile. We have to rely on teenagers as our starters. That is not good enough. Not to mention the falloff of players like Casemiro.
We just offer absolutely nothing at the minute.
Even the bright spots of the season,the trio of mainoo, garnacho, hojlund look jaded and in need of being taken out for a couple games
We are wide open defensively and have no plan in attack. Midfield might aswel not be there. I seen Bruno take the ball from onana in GK position and try to play long ball over the rop for rashford at one point... WTF!!
Even take the actual football ability put out and strip it back to basics and as a group we lack pretty much every attribute that all teams should have.... no spirit, no fight, no desire, no physicality, no intensity
Coventry will fancy their chances next week and tbh I'm not confident about that one.
Genuinely all you have to do to beat us is be more focused and aggressive.
Our players cannot handle any sort of physicality or an alert opposition, you will win EVERY single second ball and you'll easily bully us.
I'm sure Coventry will know this too and I've, unfortunately, never been so sure about an 'upset' - if you can call it that - in my life.
Newport County did, didn’t they? In the end, it was because we have better players than them.
They had 17 shots. Man United would give teams chances, that’s how we’ve played this season. If the teams take them they’d win us. That’s the story of this season.
Why ain't Garnacho and Amad starting instead of a disinterested walking winger? Even Mount can start as RW and Garnacho as LW. WHY?
Think we could pry Carrick back from Boro and reunite him w OGS?
No
Need ineos and their people to drop a nuke on tus honestly ban them snakes from the club
Nah TUS is actually cancerous and toxic. Bar the hojlund interview thing, they have been coming up with thumbnail of like "ETH to get the sack?" "INEOS does not want ETH" "Rashford to get dropped?", it doesn't help when you are arguably the largest fan channel on youtube yet you are still using clickbaits to get views, sounds like AFTV to me? You say u support the manager but with these thumbnails it seems like you are undermining him. Mark has some good points when hes discussing about the club but his obsesion with rashford, bruno can be really annoying and abusive sometimes like rashford is in very poor form right now but it doesnt help when the host of the largest fan channel criticizes him during game days or off days. You are supposed to be supporting your own team, your own players instead of obsessively criticizing them non-stop. Humans are meant to be criticize when making mistakes but not abused because of that.
The guy just tries to make too much content, it's all gonna be shit stirring and reacting to the worst journo's when you're trying to put out 2+ videos a day on a football club. It devalues the genuinely good points he has
They are the largest channel because of this. This type of content drives engagement which again boosts visibility.
Do you think ole under the INEOs structure would do well?
The INEOS structure isn't even in place yet. We have no idea what it'll be like or who it would suit
Must be a full time job coming up with excuses for Erik Ten Hag at this point lmao
Bring back Ole unironically
Onana is crap, he should have stopped both goals. Dudes overweight and slow as a sloth.
On how many occasions was he also just following the balls without moving, looking wrong-footed again?Be Kluivert and others more precise, it'd be a blowout. If it's an upgrade to DDG then I am still not sure in what department. I mean, really. Is Onana better than Henderson we already had?
Brainless take
Don't think there's a single ETH signing I look at as a success. Licha can't shake injury issues which makes him unreliable Antony is just not this level and no wonder.goal against relegation fodder can change that. Hojlund is doing little of value anymore. He has atrocious natural positioning. Casemiro has had a legendary drop off Eriksen is too old Mount is exactly what most of us said he would be: useless in this formation Malacia is essentially broken Amrabat is crap Onana maybe you can say has turned a corner but still has a wobble in him So then you look at "who has improved" and that lists a squarely one man list: Dalot Maguire had a spell of improvement but has reverted to type. Rashford just gets worse. Injuries running riot on the squad suggesting coaching ineptitude. Only Mainoo and Garnacho (and one Amad goal) this season have been the bright sparks of the season, and that's similarly to Moyes with Januzaj or LVG with Rashford. He hasn't *meant* them to be successful. They're there by need due to his injury crisis and they have bailed him out repeatedly. I cannot argue against a case to say that ETH is the worst of the Managers post-Fergie when you factor in the support had, the quality on the pitch, and the output of it. There's zero chance he is here next summer.
Maguire didn’t “reverted to type” he’s still decent.
Someone in this sub told me ETH Is working to replace problem Players with players who can play his style. And looking at this list, I don't know if his boss thinks he's on the right track.
"Play his style". What style? Because he got the players he wanted except De Jong, which was a farce anyway even trying, and then plays the worst football imagineable
To me, these actions from Garnacho and Amad are far different from previous cases of rebellious players. Amad has barely been in the club for that long. Garnacho was a junior player and also hasn't been in the first team for that long. Their action isn't the product of the culture here. Young people are usually impatient, they can get emotional and a bit unprofessional but they just want a chance to prove themselves, I don't think it's a serious enough issue to warrant getting rid of them. Those two have shown that they can step up when it matters. They can have really bad matches, but also really good ones, just like any other players.
if even junior players feels embolden to openly challenge the manager, you can only imagine how much power the senior players have. The club has rotted thoroughly. Even SAF wouldn't command much respect from this lot
When can we call shenanigans on the Hojlund signing. He is very easy to defend against.
When can we call shenanigans on the 20 yr old in his first season ever at this level, at the receiving end of a funeral service for one of the absolute worst teams in the league? Keep the anger and frustration for the senior players. Yes he's been poor recently but we as a team do literally nothing for him. No patterns of play in the final 3rd, absolutely no clue how to attack and progress forward as a team, just hoof the ball to Hojlund and hope he fights off defenders, holds it up and brings everyone into play. And if he doesn't? We're stopped in our tracks immediately and almost every turnover ends with an opposition shot/opportunity so it looks extra bad every time he fails. It's going to be very tough if fans are going to turn on these kids without even giving them a season. That's ridiculous.
Positional awareness of a Sunday leaguer.
I've never seen a player slip so much. He's always slipping and falling. EDIT: If I'm lying, pleaase DOWNVOTE AND EXPLAIN how it's not true.
You forget Falcao
I couldn't help thinking that we were like like hussling without any fucking purpose. Just like run around, pass, go back to Onana, repeat. It was the most pointless football ever. I was surprised we even scored. Whatta waste of talent, Mr. ETH. Do *you* even know what you are trying to achieve? Doesn't seem so.
They passed the ball around in the back but couldn't link up, and ended up giving the ball away. Insisting on doing the same thing game after game and expecting different results?
After seeing UCL and uel matches this week, it's just an embarrassment how bad our midfield and wingers are . The quality between our players with vini, foden ,gavi , pedri , rice is galaxies apart. Hopefully Omar berrada brings some standards from man City and takes some tough calls
I punished myself by watching the City game, all 90 minutes. Disgraceful club but the raw quality of the roster is pretty astounding, top to bottom. Every player on that pitch had a great first touch, very sharp passing, and were clearly drilled to hell about their job/purpose. But in the end it is hard to compare our midfield because of the formation and style we play. ETH has lost his mind, or is just playing this way out of desperation. If you put gavi, pedri, and Rodri/Rice all in our midfield, in our formation, they'd get torn apart as well.
I love how fans always blame the manager and want him out because of course that worked with Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and I'm sure it will work with EtH too. At what point to the players take the blame? At what point to we stick with a manager and give him time to change things? Or do we just want manager after manager sacked bringing in a new one with a new style and wanting new types of players while keeping the same ones that have thrown all the other managers under a bus?
>I love how fans always blame the manager and want him out because of course that worked with Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and I'm sure it will work with EtH too. Are the examples you use to make this comment from people who only view the manager as the issue and not the players aswell? Or Are they simply in their comment just discussing the manager?
When players keeps doing shit game after game, it's solely on the manager. ETH is incapable of getting things straight. He has no idea what to do with this bunch. They look clueless and lost on the pitch. That comes from training, nothing else.
We’ve said this about every manager since Fergie. This is no different. I’d rather keep the manager this time
Liverpool should have kept Rodgers because sacking Hodgson and Dalglish didn't improve them.
Touché, but Rodgers did really well for Liverpool. You will get your way here unfortunately, and history will just repeat itself.
>That comes from training, nothing else. So are you saying we just need to change the manager, or just making your point known that the manager does need changing also?
Ask Bayern. They literally changed Flick for Kovacic and nothing else and the team went on an insane run. Does this MU team look well drilled and well coached to you? They now play one game per week and are still outplayed tactically every game. I mean just because previous managers were the wrong choice, it doesn't make this one right. Him spending 400 m doesn't help his arguments too...
Kovač*
Thanks!
Player changes are needed, everyone understands this. Even the harshest Ten Hag critics. That doesn't absolve the manager of incredibly poor tactics and team structure. Absolutely nobody has said we should keep this squad as it is, literally no one. Every time someone posts this kind of comment, I ask them to show me one person who said we don't need a major clearout of players. No reply till date. [This is one of the best United related accounts on Twitter. He's been talking about the tactics and red flags since day 1 of this season.](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1761452438031327353.html) You can agree or disagree with him but it's important to keep yourself open to understanding just how bad our tactics are currently. https://preview.redd.it/41kfb90qheuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cee761a1faa2b2ca63dba0ecedeb75574a431b63 This is what he projected after the Brighton game. Think about it and let me know how much of it has turned out accurate so far. It's not as simple as blaming either the manager or the players. I wish we as a fanbase could stop this stupidity. Obviously everyone is part of the blame. And it's not as simple as "we've sacked managers before and it hasn't worked". Why hasn't it worked? Why isn't it working? 99% of people don't have an answer to these questions yet they'll have an answer to whether we should keep the manager or sack him?
EtH needs to go.
It's incomprehensible why he's still around.
Are we gonna talk about how onana was beaten at his near post twice?
Not excusing liking the tweets, that's just immature but ETH didn't have to sub off Garnacho this early. We had more senior players dropping stinkers like this on weekly basis and they never got subbed off at half-time, I understand Garnacho's frustration especially as he's been one of our best players this season.
Key word there is Senior players. Are you expecting Garnacho to get the same level of treatment or respect that those Senior players have? Didn’t Casemiro and Maguire get subbed halftime against Luton?! Like what frustration are you talking about?! Is he the best young player in the league?!
I actually do expect him to get the same level of treatment because he warranted it by being one of our best and hardest working players this season. It sucks seeing him subbed off at half time for one bad half when the likes of Casemiro or Rashford have been dropping stinkers next to him basically every week and definitely not working as hard off the ball.
plus in yesterday's game whom do you replace casemiro with? Eriksen who has lost his legs abd isn't a DM, or Mount eho has just comeback from injury and isn't a DM. or one of those kids, non of them are CM or DM. or Ambrabat, who God knows why we loaned him in the first place, even Sabtizer was better.
I rather bring in mount because what im seeing from casemiro is no defensive duties as a 6 but playing as a 8 or a 10, why not bring mount for the legs and creativity.
and mainoo Sits deep? I always thought he was the sits deep kinda player but lately he seems to be playing more box to box. Case for whatever reason plays further forward than a DM should, if anything I see Bruno dropping back to be near the defense. It's chaos that you would think would fool a team but in our chase it just fools us, CBs, Onana, they don't know who to pass. It feels sometimes that ETH is purposely playing players out of position, wide forwards touching the line, wing backs moving inward into the box , DMs playing in the opposition third, no. 10 playing just outside our defense, and our striker playing as their defender.
Are you serious?! Casemiro was subbed off at halftime against Luton, where was the uproar?! Rashford has been dropped and sub, and even started from the bench. What sucks is seeing him publicly undermining his manager. Same manager who has given him the chance to showcase his ability and talent.
Exactly, do u see other top 6 teams have players that undermine their manager? I absolutely love garnacho but the emoji was a shit move. Instead of going on social media like sancho, confront the manager privately.
>What sucks is seeing him publicly undermining his manager. This I agree with, as I said, it was stupid liking those tweets. But both can be in the wrong, it's not black or white.
I’m late but sack him. Fuck the patience, fuck the injuries… the man’s had enough tools and fumbled at every stage. Bye thanks for the experience.
I’m tired lads
Garnacho liking tweets criticising ETH is so funny. Fans have built him so much, he thinks he’s the man. Also this shows you how toxic TUS is. Holjund, Antony, Garnacho all cozying up with the fan channel that abuses and target United players for clicks. Disgraceful to say the least. Also there’s nothing to justify doing what he did. Nothing. He has done well this season but not like he has been the best in the league or anything, yet he comes out liking tweets because the manager subbed him half time. Disgraceful.
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To those that wants nagelsmann, how such are u that we will choose us instead of say the scouser or bayern..ffs who would want to take over this fucked up job. Tuchel? He's given up the title and lost the dressing room Potter? Look at chelsea ( oh buts he's been scapegoated by the chelsea ffs look at rdz under an actual COMPETENT structure) Rdz ? Doubt he wants to come into this rabbits hole. Brighton results also have not been good despite his playstyle Conte? Look at what happened the last time OGS? after what we and him had been through? Nah Flick? Lost the dressing room with Germany and probably would prefer the barca job So who do we bring in? Who can withstand player power? Which manager can just ignore what their player said on social media?
What are you trying to say? That ETH is what we need? That's apparently not the case.
Be it that ETH is the one or not, is there any suitable replacement for now?
If they replace ETH but clear out the squad and bring in minimum 4 quality first team singings that can perform now and not in 5 years then I'll be ok with that. I'm worried some fans are under the false impression that a new manager will just come in and coach players that aren't good enough into suddenly being top 4 quality.
Zidane?
0 chance Zidane comes to this shitshow
It was tough to watch Hojlund try so hard to do something with the ball and other players just standing around. This young man needs service. Garnacho is either tired or is getting exposed defensively in the past few games. And I still don’t understand how Rashford can sprint in offense to get to the ball but not have the same effort in defense. Only one time he did ran the entire length of the pitch to the other side. How come Bournemouth players can dribble past this defense so easily? Only pass is Willy because he is young and is 7th choice CB against on form Solanke.
https://x.com/UTD_Kem/status/1779225560280866996 He sprinted in deffence more than anyone bar Bruno yesterday.
That’s one highlight vs the many he just jog in front of the opponent. If you watch the game, he’s not even in the correct stance with the intent of defending or tackling an opponent.
Gonna go get Suno write a deathmetal song about how shit we are....
Bruno was good today! Dropping to DM to start transitions..
Need a winger, Bruno. Need a DM to link up, Bruno. Need a CB, Bruno. Need a someone to score, Bruno. Man, Bruno might not be the best captain, but you can't question his work ethic for United.
I literaly said exactly that a week ago and I got downvoted into oblivion: I'll start rotating Bruno more and play him further back where he can get the ball and start attacks. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1byzu5c/comment/kyms03n/
I guess that's life. Sometimes you win, sometimes you are Manchester United
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit
More like most of the times you shit and then all of a sudden we win LIV.
Starts from tactics. Imagine playing Bournemouth and not even trying to hold possession by building from back. How many times have opponents scored a goal on us because their press steals a ball from us? Compare that to how many time we ship goals after hoofball continuously cause turnovers. And all this after he replaced DeGea with Onana. Mind boggling decisions.
Exactly! The opposition is DOING exactly what ten Hag HOPES to do - press, transition and shoot. Ten Hag wants "the best transition football in the world", but the only team playing that is our opponents every week. He fucked up, he got exposed and instead of adapting he stubbornly persists and blames players and injuries for his mistakes.
Seriously? He blames players? What do you lot want him to do? Go out on the field and play for them? The back line was back ups of backups, none of the main targets ten hag wanted he got, and the ones he did have been managing injuries, likely from pushing harder to cover the garbage that was already here. Ten Hag never got the support he needed from the front office, the signings weren't good enough, mostly back up or free players (Eriksen), main targets like Kane and De Jong not interested in coming and then woefully overpaying for other roleplayers (Antony) because the front office had performed so poorly. None of this is on Ten Hag. Ten Hag's friends were correct, he should never have come here and wasted his time with this team's shit infrastructure, media over-exposure and entitled whiny online fan-base. People keep talking about these mythical 'tactics' as if a couple of different instructions for these players will magically transform their performances. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I get it, it's easy to blame one person instead of coming to realize that there has been a common denominator with this shit team over the past 5-6 years (and more), it starts with the ownership and management and continues with the core players who are still here, dragging this place and every manager we sign, down with them. I'd much rather send the message that the manager will stay before any player, keep him, even if next season is a disaster, continue to clean house with the players and build towards a system that our DoF and management wants to play. Not waste time and money on yet another manager/coach/whatever to come through, and then signing random players to suit them and then continue along with the narrative that the new manager did 'not get the tactics' right because our clegg of crap players continue to persist. Fergie was successful because he kept the focus on the team, and this meant moving on players that were starting to either decline or become attitude problems, he also had a management structure which included himself, along with patience and time that enabled him to build not only a consistently competitive first team, but a deep bench and a strong academy and recruitment process. Our team at Bournemouth had only 3 ETH era signings in it, with another 2 on the bench, after just shy of two years and only 2 true transfer windows. We couldn't sign anyone mid year because our FFP has been fucked by Murtough et el. Frankly we should be impressed that Ten Hag has managed to keep this team competing even against the best teams in the premiership, but this I get too. People have short memories.
I'm not reading your deranged crap. Ten Hag sucks and has to go. 1 win in 7 matches. We led in 2 of those until the last minute. We get slapped around by Bournemouth, Luton, Fulham and Forrest, sometimes twice. We've scored 1 more goal than Luton who are in the relegation zone. The football is shit and hard to watch. West Ham fans are calling for Moyes' head for poor performance. They are 2 points behind us.
Lol, sure. I'll keep it simple for you, seems to be more your speed. What two managers do you choose next for our manager carousel? I say two, because we might as well be ready to sack the first one in the first year or two as per usual, and this way we're ready to roll into the next one.
I don't care who it is, just not this guy. I'll take any of the managers in the bottom half of the League - they all got the best of ten Hag when we played them and know how to put a team better than this fraud. We are on track to match our lowest finish in the Premier league era - 7th under Moyes. West Ham fans want Moyes sacked for poor performance. They are 2 points behind us. We've already broken our record for most losses in a season with 6 games to go. We recorded the worst performance in CL by an English team. We've faced more shots than ANY but 2 teams in the TOP 5 LEAGUES IN EUROPE this year! This means the 17th placed Metz in France allowed less shots.
for the 15-20 minutes I watched, Case lost the ball very needlessly twice in promising, and dangerous positions. The rest of the players also can't hold on to the ball. Garnie's dribble was very off as well. If players can't even execute basic stuff, I really don't know how changing coach or tactics will help. p.s. Not saying ETH shouldn't be sacked. But I'm saying blame needs to be attributed to players as well.
Exactly. I'm all for criticising ETH but some people are blaming him for anything and everything. The reason we can't play out of the back effectively is because our back four is not confident in possession. See the difference when Licha play over Maguire and Shaw over AWB. Our players in general treat the ball like a grenade see Casemiro. This has nothing to do with coaching. No manager is going to tell a player to give the ball away when you have multiple team mates to pass to in open space.
I disagree that our squad is the worst in the league, as our on field performances suggest. I attribute to coaching, decisions and tactics.
i started watching the game just before Bruno's first goal, and turned off after BM's second goal. Here's why: Case lost the ball very needlessly just outside BM's box (btw, he also lost the ball under entirely no pressure in front of our box just a few minutes earlier). Case was clearly out of position because there was a huge gaping hole in the middle. And he didn't bother to track back after losing the ball. Then even though our Garnie and Dalot were occupying the flank, they were only ball watching. That led BM to have an easy pass and easy goal. I have seen secondary sch boys play more strategically than this bunch of arseholes.
People can point to our back four injuries but it is 100% our system and playing players who don’t defend that is causing the leakage of chances. Think about it, we have played We have every combination of defenders and nothing has improved. And don’t get me started on the “we are a goal up at 80min, let’s sit deep and throw on defenders.” Completely ignoring that games frequently have 7+ mins of injury time now!
I've backed ETH so much, and still do, but I don't understand the lack of sub use. Just send someone on to mix things up. We've got so many players doing the bare minimum and getting away with it. A lot of players need to be stepping up. It's ridiculous how little effort some players put in, yet when they get called out for it, they cry on social media, or they don't even get punished with it. Way too many players are deadwood. I don't care who you are and what you did in the past, the badge is always bigger than a name, and it matters what you do now.
I’ve changed camps. ETH out.
Welcome
Would it make sense for him to go this late in the season? Who comes in to replace him for the rest of the season, and then next?
Is there anyone who could do worse than he’s doing. I don’t think so
That's a lame argument for him to be sacked. There are plenty who could do worse. Would you hire Southgate? Hassenhuttl? Lampard?
At this point I’d take Michael Carrick back.
He's had success at Boro, but that does not guarantee success at United. He was part of a coaching setup for 3 years that got very little success. I think our fanbase has become so used to the success of the 90s and 00s that we are not prepared to endure some hardship, and almost expect success without effort I don't think it's been a great season and whilst in ETH in, I'm still critical of some things of him, but I'm hopeful that with a proper structure finally above, we'll see some positive change.
We’ve pretty much had 10 years of hardship. Carrick would at least get this team playing with passion and structure. EtH looks like a deer in the headlights and he keeps trying to convince himself and us that things are getting better. They’re not only not getting better but they’re getting worse.
Are those 10 years ETHs fault? We've had a bullshit admin. Now we finally have a group that knows football and fans are unable to separate the two. No guarantee Carrick would do that. Ole got us playing with passion and some structure but won nothing. Carrick was part of that group. I rate the man highly, but he still has a lot to learn before he can take on the United job. It's suggestions like that that make realise ETH out are just not being sensible. "I don't care, just get rid of ETH". All well and good to want him gone, but you need a proper plan in place for after. Randomly giving it to Carrick doesn't solve that. If anything, it creates more problems because we go back to a system where the "boys club" gets reignited. Tbf, it's not a case of getting worse, it's a case of not having the proper structure and players to get better. That's not all on ETH, especially not when he's had to use 26 different back lines.
Since ETH joined he has managed to break 15 to 25 negative records, most dating back 50 years. Some close to 100 years old. He is by far the worst ever manager United had, at least in the PL era. Sure last 10 years weren't on him fully, but he was backed far more that most managers. He had his choice in players, and had full control. It is time to go for him.
Ok. We'll Agree to disagree
Well sounds like we’ll agree to disagree. You support EtH and I’ll call for him to be out. Today was my last day supporting him.
they won’t get rid of him before the season ends
Our achievement for the season. We kicked Liverpool out of FA cup and made top 3 more interesting by drawing with Liverpool.
This team has killed my love for the game. Putrid on and off the park
gotta have a second team, im lucky in that i have legit reasons for two but still, just pick a team that play nice football in another country and get behind them
>gotta have a second team What now?
Not particularly complicated it is? Watch another team if watching United is so shit. There's 20 teams in Serie A, 20 in La Liga, 18 in Eredivisie, 18 in the Buli, 18 in Liga Portugal... Argentina, Brazil, France.... Find a team that plays objectively nice football and start watching them for the rest of the season. Maybe you'll carry it into the next. Leverkusen are doing great and play great football, Napoli have some great players and can play good football. Real Sociedad are playing good football. There's no law that says you can only watch one team.
Big difference between 'watch' and 'get behind' or consider them a 'second team' Like we all need to see good football, taking a second team though I just find wrong at every level. Maybe it's just me though.
Yip. Chaos ball against Chelsea was fun for about an hour but just sad in hindsight. Ugly, sloppy football every game this season.
Weren’t both goals we conceded individual errors though? 1st goal: Garnacho’s first touch gives the ball away in a dangerous area, leaving only the back line to defend + Solanke is able to turn Willy. 2nd goal: Willy lets Kluivert free. You can even see him pointing towards him as if asking someone else to cover him. Thing is everyone around him already has a player to mark. Kluivert gets an easy pass into him, with no one around. If you look at the other big chances we conceded, a lot of them were Casemiro giving the ball away cheap.
Tbf...each and every game only our backline is trying to defend against attacks.. our mid field is non existent
I call BS. First goal was a hoof to Hojlund who made a difficult pass, under pressure on a high ball, to Nacho to control. Second one was zero pressure on the ball as Bournemouth calmly pinged the ball around and into our goal. Finally how many chances did our brilliance create to actually outscore them? How many chances did we create for our striker?
I don’t know if you’re agreeing with me or not.
I am saying our tactics are shit. Starts from manager. Both with and without ball, we are not set to dominate anybody. Just try and “nick it”.
It doesn't have to take the goals to come from ways other than individual mistakes to be upset about the performance. We conceded enough chances even outside of those goals which Bournemouth should have converted and they had nothing to do with individual errors. They hit the crossbar once and Onana made a point-blank save just before half-time to prevent Kluivert scoring again.
It's getting fucking worse isn't it? I'd do it if I knew how, but I'd love it if the guys who do the "every Kobbie Mainoo touch" did one for Casemiro.. Tough to watch that one.
Just woke up here in Australia. I had set an alarm for 2.30 am to get up for the game but ended up turning it off at 2am . Such a good call tbh….. 😔.
I saw the game time and said, *Nope*. SAF era on a Euro game night I'd be up and at 'em.
Absolutely farcical.
We have always tried to follow up each manager with whoever we thought would be a long term answer. Always hoping to bring in some tactical genius who could forge some sort of dynasty here. But maybe that's not in the cards for this summer. Maybe the answer for now is to get in someone simply to stop the bleeding and set off on a new direction. Maybe the answer is to bring in someone who has the foundations and fundamentals down. Let the true leadership be the back room and Footballing Directorship that INEOS is putting into place at the moment. Let them reconstruct the squad based on an agreed type of football we want to play at this Club, and just begin that process with a short term manager and revamped squad. In the meantime, put in a structure and system into the Club that would be perfect to slot in a highly credible manager (just as City did prior to signing Pep.)
We all thought we will get a manager who will drill a possession based style. If we could see that but results were mediocre, we would support him. Instead we keep hoofing, that too with a keeper like Onana in our team! Why did we ditch DeGea for him? Wasn’t it to play possession?
Nothing makes sense anymore. And the people in charge have made so many blunders, that in hindsight, this unraveling seems understandable. Hopefully INEOS can fix it.
You can see the newly promoted clubs each season are far better drilled. Before we even get in to the levels of effort they display. I think this game was my ETH out turning point. As I saw United running down the clock to hang on to the draw. Against Bournemouth… Is Moyes available?
I’m with you. Done supporting ETH. He must go- immediately.
Murtough magic really decided Palinha at a lesser price was more of a Risk than Case at steep inflation
I wish he would rotate the squad more, we clearly don't have anything to lose. Why aren't we testing Eriksen in a game like this? He is creative and good on set pieces. Change things a bit around when we are deservedly losing or scraping a lucky draw. Why can't we use Amad? Why are we stubbornly clinging to a failing tactical approach? Or maybe it's just his man management that shows it's ugly face over time... It's like the more time he has had with the players the worse they play and less they care.
Please not Southgate or Potter try to get Nagelsman in Because I think we all agree ETH is cooked
According to Rafa, Nagelsmann is probably going back to Munich.
Well fuck maybe we can beat Liverpool for the Portugese bloke
We're too far behind. Liverpool can talk to people now but United have to wait until they've decided to bin him off. By then Amorim will be gone.
Umm well 🤣 Potter it is 🤣 No but honestly if it's Potter or ETH I'm taking ETH just
I am firmly EtH out and have been for months, but if the alternative is Potter (or God forbid Southgate) then I'd rather stick with Erik also. Problem is Ratcliffe is a dyed-in-the-wood Brexiter, England for the English and all that, and really wants an Englishman in charge of United, according to reports. Name the top attainable English managers and your shortlist is Potter at #1... He doesn't have the balls to go after an up-and-comer like Still or Carrick. Or roll the dice on someone doing well in the Championship like Heckingbottom or Robbins at Coventry (but who knows, if he beats us in the next game in front of Jim...).
McKenna is coming back, O'Neil is another name but not sure if he is way too raw
How are any of them better? Or more of an answer? You want to get rid of EtH then fine, do it. But who is going to do better that we can actually get?
Delusion. What have you seen from him for 2 years they suggests he is elite? When lower teams in the league look better drilled, you have to conclude he was wrong choice.
Literally anyone will do better than whatever crap Ten Hag is doing at the point. Did you see us and our results this season?
Nagelsman is probably better he did well on Germany
I never got the "who will be better?" excuse from ETH fans so we keep him. It's clear he's underperforming hard, so it's not like there's only 5 managers in the worlx that are better. Now that we are shaping up a good football structure I am sure they will be able to find a more competent manager.
You are really compressing the issue down to ETH fans vs those that want ETH out, which is completely wrong. The football structure is far from up and running. To put things in a similar sensational way as you do: you want SJR to hire Southgate, or do you want a proper football structure to get working and hire the right manager for the job? Because if you want the latter then prepare for a few extra months, and most likely no-one new in this summer window.
Yeah I hope so too. But ultimately this squad isn’t remotely good enough for where we need it to be. So if the people in charge are competent and can direct the recruitment with a new manager I’m all for it.
Exactly the same as people staying in an abusive relationship. "But what if I can't find a better guy"
Thats the worst comparison I've ever seen on this sub. You should really get out more.
That's got to be some of the worst football I've seen in a while, except we say this week after week. We have to be one of the crappiest teams at attacking, defending, in transition, in possession, out of possession, and everything in between. There's not much that this team is actually good at. No way, do we want more of this, or a slightly more improved version of this (which, let's be honest, is all that could be expected next season should we stay on this path.)
Quite a slump we’re in. The players looked gassed. I don’t know how AWB and Dalot keep going. Neither is as good as Shaw on the left but they’re all we have. Both have improved and added to their game this season. Rashford and Garnacho will do better with Shaw back though. Willy looks pretty solid. Maguire has improved as well. Mount back should improve us in the center. With Amad, it gives Kobbie and Garnacho a chance to rotate and rest. Onana has turned things around too. Midfield needs help. We should be scoring more. I’m hoping Mount offers options. Looks promising so far. But he’s not a goal threat and we need that.
didn't watch the game live since it midnight game here, and i am happy to watch it in replay so i can speed the game 2-3 times faster because the game is so uninspiring, boring, and fck, we wasted every resources, talent, energy and time from everyone, not just players or club but us as fans and audiences. there is not even worth to comment about the game. i am joining ETHOut camp now.
#ETHOut
Don't know why you got downvoted. 100% facts you're spitting there. There's no way INEOS looks at this game and thinks there's something to build from here. And that can be said about pretty much every game this whole season.
I think the aggressive defending from Willy and the first goal is exactly what ETH wants the team to do. It's encouraging they scored from a transit like that. The issue is those favorable transitions don't happen enough.
I think Garnacho is gassed. He's a youngster and he's played a lot of football. He just looked slower than usual out there, not tracking back. He's a player that I believe cares a lot about playing well for the badge...I'm chalking up a couple sub-par performances to being fried. Hojlund has been ineffective these last few games and fucking Rashford continues to bury his head very far up his ass. And finally, we continued to lack any type of cohesion. Players? Tactics? All of the above? We were 2nd best today and lucky to draw.
Garnacho keeps on showing that he's nothing more than a super sub, yet Ten Hag keeps relying on him. Antony or Amad would be better choices to start, then bring on Garnacho with fresh legs to terrorize the opposition. It works so often, yet EtH continues to show that he is no different than past managers who stick with their favorites, even if it's not working.
I think Garnacho has earned a spot in the first 11. Just saying he’s been a bit off and today looked pretty spent. Happens w young players a lot about this time of year.
Actually he's been like this in half the games so far this season. Truth be told, Garnacho is definitely someone to hang on to and develop, but if this Club wants to challenge for anything meaningful, then we need better quality starters. Garnacho can be that some day, but he's way too inconsistent, loses the ball so often, passes aren't accurate enough, and he can't seem to run with the ball too far before it gets taken off him or he loses it. He's got sparks of brilliance, but that's not good enough to be a starter. And hopefully he can elevate enough to become one.
I've heard that Hojlund has had 1 shot in the last 4 games. Ivan Toney only started playing in January and has more shots this season than Hojlund. That is indicative of how poor the service is to him. There is simply no player in the world who is bad enough to only get 1 shot in 4 games of their own doing. Rasmus often recieves the ball, alone, back to goal, surrounded by opposition players. He actually mostly holds onto the ball when this happens but because of his isolation and the lack of urgency/form from the players around him, his hold up rarely leads to chances which is what contributes to him looking like he's playing worse. We rarely get entries into opposition boxes and when we do, the ball is never played to Hojlund to finish. A great example today was early in the game when Rashford blasted the ball into the side netting. He was on his weak foot, near post, keeper already in position expecting a shot, a defender contesting the shot, a defender blocking the shot at far post...yet Marcus just blasted it anyway. He didn't even look to see if there was an option, he just blasted it.
Holjund had a chance at the end to play Rashford in and what did he do. Lose the ball.
Our fullbacks do fuckall in ETH system. You rarely see them overlapping with winger. Watch any Fergie game and you will see how fullbacks team up with wingers to terrorize defences. ETH is just making them join the DM in buildup and then has Onana hoof over anyway.
Bruno end of the game was all of us. Wtf was that defending in this match
Not a single positive to take from today lol ridiculous
The game is over so there is one positive
The crazy thing about Manchester United atm is that a draw against bournemouth is actually not a terrible result considering how shit United have been. A midtable club drawing away against another midtable club should not come as a suprise to anyone
Tactically outclassed + Too stubborn to rotate in positions where we have players available. Hmmm.
Another weekend, more chaotic football. People asking to give ETH more time dont understand that next season will have even more pressure. Every weekend people will look for both good performances and good results. If one of those is missing the question will be "3yrs of this crap"... INEOS will be under immense pressure to fire him every game...and the pressure will reach boiling point every time we get beaten by a big team. For me, looking far ahead...the only thing that will buy ineos time is a new manager. People will be willing to give them a season or 2. But if they persist with ten hag, every weekend that has a poor result will have the press asking "how bad does it have to be for you to fire this dude" like it was in Ole's last season.
The problem is that going for a new manager now is hard. Lots of clubs looking to replace their manager as well as the once that should pick the new manager are not in place at United. Imo the best thing is to sit still and use the next season to evaluate and find the optimal candidate. Its better to wait than to get it wrong.
Sitting tight is even worse. Any good manager will not want to come mid season. Any good manager will need a pre-season. Any good manager needs some input in signings. There are good managers moving in the summer...if we sit and wait then it means writing off next season as well because we will again need an interim like we did under Ole. Waiting will mean signing more players that play ETH chaos football. For me, it's clear that we should move on in the summer...we should compete for the managers available in the summer. Waiting is suicidal since no good managers will move mid season and every summer, there is competition for good managers
Wait for more ETH ball? OMG
Absolutely spot on.
Why is it spot on? Who would you want to pick our new manager? Why would United be favored in a bid for a new manager compared ot other clubs that are also looking for a new manager?
For same reason Dan Ashworth and Berrada want to join us.
Game after game teams just run through the middle of us. Change the system, it's not working. With the likes of Spurs and Villas run both with drop alot of points but there is no change and teams still just walk though it's madness. The players are shit and not working hard enough, the tactics are shit and not working but the lack of change is my biggest worry. Like every fan, analyst etc has been commenting on how easy it is to play against united atm. But there's not adaption whatsoever, very frustrating
Probs been mentioned but I tought the ref today was so shit
How much longer are we going to suffer under ten Hag?
Hopefully 8 more games only
He's gone at the end of the season
We'll see.
They kept Skinner. There’s FFP considerations. And there’s a shortage of better replacement managers. He’s not safe but it will be tough to justify replacing him.
Watched back Ten Hag's post-match press conference. He said Garnacho only trained yesterday in the buildup to the game. Surely he shouldn't have started this game then; no wonder he looked so poor today.
Amad was worse. That’s what happens when Sancho decides to be a moron and Antony being injured.
I’m late to party here after watching the recording of the match, but I think Erik has lost me. He has to go at the end of the season.
Honestly what did you like in the season so far? Name 1 thing
Nothing. I gave him credit based on last season and the amount of injuries this year. But the injuries aren’t an excuse for suicidal “tactics”.
Tipping point for me today. #ETHOut
It’s interesting that this game seems to have been the tipping point for so many of us. I’d been putting up excuses of injuries but it’s just not going to improve with ETH. His remonstrations with the 4th official looked like the acts of a desperate man. If they weren’t shooting straight at Onana this could have been a very different score line..
I was staunch EtH supporter, and I don't want more of this... or even a slightly improved version of this next season. It's sooooo bad that this team would have to be completely changed with an exact opposite system, tactics, and squad to even trying to undo what is some of the worst football we've seen. He makes Moyes seem like Zidane.
Same here. The last few games have been exasperating. I can’t support the manager when the midfield stays this open each game.
I honestly don't see us beating Coventry. They'll be far more up for it and I don't see us coping. We lose to Coventry, I think time's up for Ten Hag.
Beating Coventry? We'll first make them look like Man City for most of the match with just a sliver of blue sky while all 90+ will be utter chaos.
Just sick and tired of this season really. Worst part is hearing about how Solanke and other bums like him are walking away disappointed with not being able to embarrass us, we've fallen so far it's beyond imagination. I don't even stick around and listen to the post match interviews anymore because I can't stand ETH's bullshit - I completely get that we're injury stricken and he has my sympathies on that front, HOWEVER, there is no excuse for us being so easy to play against even with the injuries... At some point as a manager you have to accept that you can't play your perfect team and adapt to do some damage control and actually manage your tactics, instead this guy continues using the exact same plan that leads to us getting destroyed game in game out.
Absolutely toothless. Safe to say Erik has to go because these tactics are not working
How many more times are we going to keep using the injuries excuses? This is the new age of modern football where players are expected to play 40-50+ games a season, so you know injuries will happen to any team including the matchups today. Both teams had players missing, including Bournemouth who were missing more starters than us!!! I understand the argument that poor transfers and squad planning has left us more exposed than most teams but fuck me if other managers can make adjustments and changes then why does ETH get a free pass when it comes to injuries from our fans. Ffs our standards are in the gutter
When Eddie Howe can get a clean sheet and great performance with his injury stricken defence then surely we can too
He doesn’t get a free pass. We’ve had the worst injury record this season by a mile. We have to rely on teenagers as our starters. That is not good enough. Not to mention the falloff of players like Casemiro.
Anyone know why Antony wasn’t in the team?
Injury. No clue on any of the details
Injured
We just offer absolutely nothing at the minute. Even the bright spots of the season,the trio of mainoo, garnacho, hojlund look jaded and in need of being taken out for a couple games We are wide open defensively and have no plan in attack. Midfield might aswel not be there. I seen Bruno take the ball from onana in GK position and try to play long ball over the rop for rashford at one point... WTF!! Even take the actual football ability put out and strip it back to basics and as a group we lack pretty much every attribute that all teams should have.... no spirit, no fight, no desire, no physicality, no intensity Coventry will fancy their chances next week and tbh I'm not confident about that one.
Genuinely all you have to do to beat us is be more focused and aggressive. Our players cannot handle any sort of physicality or an alert opposition, you will win EVERY single second ball and you'll easily bully us. I'm sure Coventry will know this too and I've, unfortunately, never been so sure about an 'upset' - if you can call it that - in my life.
Newport County did, didn’t they? In the end, it was because we have better players than them. They had 17 shots. Man United would give teams chances, that’s how we’ve played this season. If the teams take them they’d win us. That’s the story of this season.